A pair of Gaboon Vipers for SALE ,
Smell Badd
must be terribly dangerous animals. It seems like people would want to
keep something a little less dangerous like a copperhead, or a tree viper
or something less lethal.
Leslie Morrison
to.......
Smell Badd
>Leslie Morrison <Ro...@world.std.com> wrote:
>>Oh, god, they are GORGEOUS! I don't do hot snakes, but if I was going
>>to.......
>Yes, they are GORGEOUS and they are the most placid of all the adders,
>--- they have to be forced to bite! Of course I'm refering to (bitis
>gabonica gabonica) which is listed as "vulnerable" in a current South
>African "red data" book of endangered herps. so any attempt to breed
>these beautiful creatures should be encourged, (and yes, by someone
>with experience - I'm not suggesting *anyone* provide a home for these
>snakes just because they're docile, the most beautiful adders on the
>planet and endangered) hmmm........if I had the space and could
>afford their air tickets :-x :)
>graeme
So they are relatively managable in the private setting? They certainly
are pretty!
Graeme Blem
C HORRIDUS
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Oh let me wax lyrical just once more .............. : )
In an old book I have - Reptiles and Amphibians of Southern Africa
(Walter Rose 1962) - he states ; "The length of the fangs and the
virulence of the venom make this snake *potentially* one of the
deadliest in the world." =:o He goes on to say ; ".... we use the
qualification *potentially* because it is stated, on the authority of
Sir Harry Johnston, Pitman and others [some old-time colonial herpers]
well aquainted with it, that the Gaboon Viper is quite unaggressive
and will submit to gentle handling without attempting to bite. This
perhaps was fortunate for the central figure in an amusing story told
to us by.....etc etc .... She had two Gaboons in a glass case
conspicuosly labelled *HIGHLY DANGEROUS. DO NOT TOUCH!*. One day she
noticed that a visitor had removed the cover of the case and, with his
whole arm inside it, was waving his hand close to the noses of the
vipers who maintained an attitude of complete indifference.
Indignantly challenged, the man explained that he was tired of life
and wanted to end it all .......... " Of course he was advised
otherwise and lived happily ever after or something like that, but it
does illustrate how good natured these creatures are. They do tend to
remain totally motionless for days on end but come feeding time ......
I have observed a Gaboon zap a young (dead) chicken fed to it before
it hit the floor of the cage. Indeed a reptile of contrasts.
OK - That's all on Gaboons from me so you can all breathe a sigh of
relief :-x : )
Graeme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>
Graeme it isn't really fair for you to do that to us. You know I have
enough snakes that I am absolutely drooling to obtain and now you had to
go and add another one to that list. How dare you!
Do any others on the newsgroup keep Gaboons?
Virulent99
they are spectacular.
Graeme Blem
>So they are relatively managable in the private setting? They certainly
>are pretty!
Oh let me wax lyrical just once more .............. : )
Garry Freemyer
>I have a pair of Bitis gabonica rhinoceros for sale.
>Both snakes are captive born and raised. Both are approximately
>five foot long and very thick and in EXCELLENT HEALTH !
>VERY GORGEOUS PAIR!
Are they tame? I like lap snakes and snakes that curl around and just
kind of relax not those nervy snakes that are always trying to get
away.
Don
You ought to check out the photos of Marlin Perkins after his Gaboon
bite. A lovely shade of green.............
These animals are NOT pet material!
Nathan Tenny
Virulent99 <virul...@aol.com> wrote:
>Has anyone seen the gaboon x rhino cross? I haven't but I understand that
>they are spectacular.
I've seen pictures. They're pretty dramatic, but I don't really think they
have anything up on the pure Gaboon and rhino vipers.
NT
--
Nathan Tenny Words I carry in my pocket, where
Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA they breed like white mice.
nte...@qualcomm.com -Lawrence Durrell
homepage in limbo
*******
Where can I find the pictures? Are they anywhere on internet?
Paul J Hollander
C HORRIDUS <chor...@aol.com> wrote:
> gra...@dds.nl (Graeme Blem) wrote the following
><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>enough snakes that I am absolutely drooling to obtain and now you had to
>go and add another one to that list. How dare you!
>
>Do any others on the newsgroup keep Gaboons?
Before drooling too much, check Raymond Ditmars" _Snakes of the World_
for an account of a Gaboon viper bite. Marlin Perkins came within a
hair of dying from it. And a few years ago, a guy stole a Gaboon from
the National Zoo in D.C. On his way home, he swung the bag over his
shoulder, and the snake bit him through the bag. He also survived, but
AFAIK he has permanent tissue damage in the shoulder.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Rose. _The Reptiles and Amphibians of Southern Africa_
Paul Hollander | Chapter 39. Advice to the Inexperienced on Catching
phol...@iastate.edu | and Handling Poisonous Snakes, Together with Full
| Instructions for Keeping Them in Captivity.
|
| DON'T.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tony Berke
: >VERY GORGEOUS PAIR!
You use these vipers as "lap snakes" and I'll bet you'll find
yourself REAL RELAXED before too long =:-) Tony
Anthony Zipple
that a gaboon does and which has fangs thas are nearly as long as my
little finger is always a dangerous snake. Leave them to zoos, breeders
and other professionals in secure settings.
In article <4gdc15$q...@news.xs4all.nl>, gra...@dds.nl says...
>
>smel...@aol.com (Smell Badd) wrote:
>
>>gra...@dds.nl writes:
>>>Leslie Morrison <Ro...@world.std.com> wrote:
>
>>>>Oh, god, they are GORGEOUS! I don't do hot snakes, but if I was going
>>>>to.......
>
>>>Yes, they are GORGEOUS and they are the most placid of all the adders,
>>>--- they have to be forced to bite! Of course I'm refering to (bitis
>>>gabonica gabonica) which is listed as "vulnerable" in a current South
>>>African "red data" book of endangered herps. so any attempt to breed
>>>these beautiful creatures should be encourged, (and yes, by someone
>>>with experience - I'm not suggesting *anyone* provide a home for these
>>>snakes just because they're docile, the most beautiful adders on the
>>>planet and endangered) hmmm........if I had the space and could
>>>afford their air tickets :-x :)
>>>graeme
>
>>So they are relatively managable in the private setting? They certainly
>>are pretty!
>
Bryan Grieg Fry
> Leslie Morrison <Ro...@world.std.com> wrote:
>
> >Oh, god, they are GORGEOUS! I don't do hot snakes, but if I was going
> >to.......
>
> Yes, they are GORGEOUS and they are the most placid of all the adders,
> --- they have to be forced to bite! Of course I'm refering to (bitis
> gabonica gabonica) which is listed as "vulnerable" in a current South
> African "red data" book of endangered herps. so any attempt to breed
> these beautiful creatures should be encourged, (and yes, by someone
> with experience - I'm not suggesting *anyone* provide a home for these
> snakes just because they're docile, the most beautiful adders on the
> planet and endangered) hmmm........if I had the space and could
> afford their air tickets :-x :)
> graeme
Sorry but there are a couple of statements that I really must take issue
with, while gaboons are remarkably placid, they will bite readily and
posses a very nasty venom cocktail (it is notable not only for its potency
but also for quantity, the human lethal dose for a gaboon is around 60 mg
and an adult is capable of delivering 600mg). Your statement is a very
dangerous one, it fosters casualness which results in casualties. As a
venom researcher, I have had numerous specimens of this specie and while
they are relatively "nice" they are also very very fast whenthey do
strike.
As far as encouraging the breeding, there is really no need for that.
They are already one of the most frequently bred venomous snakes (as
evidenced by the drop over the last two years in price for cb babies from
180 to around 65 dollars). This is not to say that the breeding should be
discouraged, it is just not a necessity.
With regards,
Bryan Grieg Fry
--
"The caribou love it. They rub against it and they have babies. There are more caribou in Alaska than you can shake a stick at."
--George Bush, on the Alaska pipeline
Malpocalypse_The-Younger
>
>I'm afraid that at least one individual on this thread may be serious!
>You ought to check out the photos of Marlin Perkins after his Gaboon
>bite. A lovely shade of green.............
>
>These animals are NOT pet material!
You are very right,
Snakes that carry venom, are not pet material, but they are very
interesting snakes for a serious, well-informed herp hobbiest to keep.
I my self, am thinking about getting a pair of rear-toothed poisonious
snakes, to study, and start out my collection. Most real-toothed snakes
do not carry very toxic venom, and their teeth usually can barley
get into skin. But, the serious hobbiest will never get bitten, for
they understand the massive power these serpents have, and respect it.
-Miles
Bryan Grieg Fry
wrote:
> In <4gf9r7$t...@mel.hargray.com> dona...@sccoast.net (Don) writes:
> >
> >I'm afraid that at least one individual on this thread may be serious!
>
> >You ought to check out the photos of Marlin Perkins after his Gaboon
> >bite. A lovely shade of green.............
> >
> >These animals are NOT pet material!
There is quite a difference between having a pet and having an animal that
is inherently dangerous yet also inherently fascinating. If you want a
pet, get a bearded dragon....
W/regards,
Bryan
> >
>
>
>
>
> Where can I find the pictures? Are they anywhere on internet?
--
.
..
Bryan Grieg Fry ; ;; . :. . ,o88o,
psu0...@odin.cc.pdx.edu .. ;;:: ;:. d888888b
Portland State University .. ;; :,;' : 8888888B
"Take time out and Enjoy!" .; ,;; :;' :. `Y8888P'
;; .. .; ;;; : ::. :. `""'
--------- ;; - .. ,;;; : :. :....,,,,,,,,,,
--------- --- ,,;;; . :........;;;;;;;;;;;
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Graeme Blem
>With regards,
>Bryan Grieg Fry
>--
I'm SORRY = :o , and rather surprised at the tone of your response.
Though casually written, (you could fault me on that) my posting was a
response to A: "why do so many "hot" snake enthusiasts keep
Gaboons?" I ventured (all be it naively :#) to suggest that it was
perhaps because "they are GORGEOUS and they are the most placid of all
the adders." "Gorgeous" is an *opinion* - shared by many on this
group and that they are placid is a *fact* you didn't exactly contest
in your responce so What's The Problem : )
"...... they have to be forced to bite" - I imagine this is what got
your back up - bad choice of words =:o "On his way home, he swung the
bag over his shoulder, and the snake bit him through the bag." ...this
I feel is sufficient "force", any blow to the body of a snake would
seem life theatening to it and of course it would retaliate. I have
cross-referenced the fact that it is by nature an even-tempered snake
and all sources agree that : ".....it is surprisingly placid in nature
unless *unduly* molested or closely approached, when it will usually
emit a series of long-drawn-out hisses with the forepart of the body
raised off the ground. It strikes *only* as a last resort or if
stepped on." (Snakes of Southern Africa -Marais '92) A "last resort"
or being "stepped on" constitute sufficient *force* in my humble
opinion and they're talking about snakes encounted in the wilds! The
Gaboons you have owned were obviously "unduly molested" if they were
used for venom research - milking a snake doesn't exactly do wonders
for it's trust and I'm sure they'd end up "biting readily"
But of course we're trying to shed light on : "why do so many "hot"
snake enthousiasts keep Gaboons" - these are people who have made the
choice and have the experience (one would hope) to keep "hot" snakes.
They *know-the-risks-involved* and they are not kept as "lap pets."
No-one here is trying to encourage anyone to own a Gaboon as a PET
with all the fun and cuddly connotations the word has. Because a bit
of humour permeates the thread it doesn't mean everyone's taken leave
of their senses. I resent the accusation that my statements were
dangerous - give people credit for a little common sense. So as to
avoid such pedantic diatribes as your own I expressly stated : "...and
yes, by someone with experience - I'm not suggesting *anyone* provide
a home for these snakes just because they're docile, the most
beautiful adders on the planet and endangered."
On this thread I have commented on the speed of the Gaboon's strike
and that .."The length of the fangs and the virulence of the venom
make this snake *potentially* one of the deadliest in the world." If
this has still failed to detere anyone, caught up in my enthousiasm
for the species from aquiring one (or two) as PETS then I'll have to
add that their FANGS REACH A LENGTH OF 4 CM. There, that aught to
have put things into perspective. =8 ) - Don't try this at home
folks!
As far as breeding of this species goes, it might be proliferating
profusely in the USA but it's listed as "vulnerable" in it's natural
distribution !?! Isn't that a little alarming? Breeders are always
on about saving a species, though admirable, what good will it ever do
if these reptiles are never reintroduced into their natural habitat.
Here's a challenge to the masses of you out there with excess Gaboon
offspring. The FitzSimons snake park in Durban, Natal, South Africa
is currently engaged in an intensive research and rescue campaign to
try to prevent the extinction of this species in the Zululand/Eastern
Transvaal region and might just be pleased to know they're abundant in
the States.
Yours, "unduly molested"
Graeme
*******
psu0...@odin.cc.pdx.edu (Bryan Grieg Fry) writes:
>
>In article <4gg0e3$b...@cloner3.netcom.com>,
asc...@ix.netcom.com(******* )
>wrote:
>
>> In <4gf9r7$t...@mel.hargray.com> dona...@sccoast.net (Don) writes:
>> >
>> >I'm afraid that at least one individual on this thread may be
serious!
>>
>> >You ought to check out the photos of Marlin Perkins after his
Gaboon
>> >bite. A lovely shade of green.............
>> >
>> >These animals are NOT pet material!
( I said)
>>
>> Where can I find the pictures? Are they anywhere on internet?
(you responded)
>
>There is quite a difference between having a pet and having an animal
that
>is inherently dangerous yet also inherently fascinating. If you want
a
>pet, get a bearded dragon....
>
>
>W/regards,
>
>Bryan
I did not say that I wanted to obtain a Gaboon Viper. I simply asked
where I could find the photos of Marlin Perkins bite from a Gaboon
Viper. I agree that if someone wants a pet, a beared dragon would make
a good choice, but I didnt say anything about wanting a venomous snake
as a pet. All I wanted to know was where I could view the pictures of a
victom from a bite of a Gaboon Viper.
Alan
Garry Freemyer
Anthony Zipple
some risk.....and good ones do get bitten even when they are careful. It
may be a reasonable risk, but it is foolish pride (which goes before a
fall!) to believe that "the serious hobbiest will never get bitten." The
reason that zoos, breeders and serious herpers stock specific antivenin is
because they are smart evough to know that the risk is real and people do
(rarely) get bitten.
In article <4girnp$5...@ns2.ptd.net>, mi...@postoffice.ptd.net says...
>
>In article <4gf9r7$t...@mel.hargray.com>, dona...@sccoast.net (Don) says:
>>
>>I'm afraid that at least one individual on this thread may be serious!
>>You ought to check out the photos of Marlin Perkins after his Gaboon
>>bite. A lovely shade of green.............
>>
>>These animals are NOT pet material!
>
C HORRIDUS
mi...@postoffice.ptd.net (Malpocalypse_The-Younger) said...
>Snakes that carry venom, are not pet material, but they are very
>interesting snakes for a serious, well-informed herp hobbiest to keep.
>I my self, am thinking about getting a pair of rear-toothed poisonious
>snakes, to study, and start out my collection. Most real-toothed snakes
>do not carry very toxic venom, and their teeth usually can barley
>get into skin. But, the serious hobbiest will never get bitten, for
>they understand the massive power these serpents have, and respect it.
I am just curious, what type of rear fanged snakes are you planning on
keeping? I keep some mangrove snakes....I don't particularly consider
them all that dangerous. Boomslangs might be another matter though.....
Bodhi yogi
Graeme Blem
>Are there any rear-fanged snakes that hobbists should avoid?
Boomslangs ( dyspholidus typus ) and the African Vine snake
(thelotornis capensis or kurtlandii) They are both very docile snakes
(some people handle them) but they have a deadly, slow acting
haemotoxin that causes internal bleeding and lesions under the skin.
The symptoms aren't localised to the bite area but all over and very
painful I believe. The vemom does not react to ordinary poly-valent
serum. A serum does exist but it would have to be flown in from the
Institute for Medical Research in Johannesburg South Africa if there
isn't any in the States (I wouln't know) Because it's slow acting, it
takes about 24 hours for symtoms to really develop - then the fun
starts. Though a commonly kept snake in South Africa, bites are very
rare.
Nathan Tenny
Malpocalypse_The-Younger <mi...@postoffice.ptd.net> wrote:
>But, the serious hobbiest will never get bitten, for
>they understand the massive power these serpents have, and respect it.
Never say never.
One of the most serious hobbyists I know is a fellow up in Oregon who does,
and has done for years, a lot of work with various rattlesnake species (and
everything else). After never being bitten for, I think, about 20 years, he
had a lapse of attention and got nailed---by a baby Western diamondback, if I
remember aright. Mind you, he was fine, and only spent a couple of days in
the hospital; but he says it was quite a memorable experience.
The point is that *anybody* can get distracted for a second or just do
something stupid, and sometimes that's all it takes. You don't have to lose
your respect for venomous snakes to get bitten by one!
NT
--
Nathan Tenny
Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA Glory, as anyone knows, is bitter stuff.
nte...@qualcomm.com -Yukio Mishima
homepage in limbo
Smell Badd
they? Are they dangerous to people?
