PETA's Chained Dog Crusade
gal...@hotmail.com
premise that a dog chained to a cable-run is worse off than a dog in a
pen or a dog in a tiny backyard. My two dog runs are 50' long with a
15' chain and are mulched with wood chips and are under shade trees.
The dogs are established biters and fence climbers. In an ideal world
all dogs would have large fenced yards to run free in and a rug in
front of a fireplace to sleep on -- but in the real world they are
being produced by puppy mills and unspayed dogs and destroyed by the
millions in municipal shelters across the country.
The worst irony was receiving my PETA lecture from a neighbor woman
whose father was the most animal-negligent person I ever knew.
Dave
http://petaliterature.com/viewitem.asp?item=WEL103%20%20%20%20&id=
Spot
neighbor to stuff it up where the sun don't shine.
Celeste
<gal...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1111335038.3...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
gal...@hotmail.com
> news:1111335038.3...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> > Any thoughts here on PETA's latest crusade? I really don't
> > accept the premise that a dog chained to a cable-run is
> > worse off than a dog in a pen or a dog in a tiny backyard.
> > My two dog runs are 50' long with a 15' chain and are
> > mulched with wood chips and are under shade trees. The
> > dogs are established biters and fence climbers. In an ideal
> > world all dogs would have large fenced yards to run free
> > in and a rug in front of a fireplace to sleep on -- but in
> > the real world they are being produced by puppy mills and
> > unspayed dogs and destroyed by the millions in municipal
> > shelters across the country.
> >
> > The worst irony was receiving my PETA lecture from a neighbor
> > woman whose father was the most animal-negligent person I
> > ever knew.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > http://petaliterature.com/viewitem.asp?item=WEL103%20%20%20%20&id=
>
>
> It sounds to me like you are being a responsible pet owner. Tell
> your nosy neighbor to stuff it up where the sun don't shine.
>
> Celeste
It isn't as if I don't accept the fact that a dog on a chain can be a
very sad situation, but I've also seen dogs in small 10'x10' cages and
I think that is equally awful. Also if this silly person has all these
ideal homes available where she thinks she can place adult dogs why
doesn't she encourage those people to visit the local animal shelters
where who knows how many dogs are being put to sleep every week? No,
I'm sure her snooty friends would buy from a dog breeder. Her silly
father was the sort who only kept a dog for a few years and would then
"give it away to some friend." Then he'd get a different dog.
Spot
make the effort to help the shelters it would be different.
I for one would rather see a dog on a trolley run with room to move about
than stuck in some pen. I have a neighbor who has a wonderful dog that is
stuck in a damned pen most of the time because they don't want the back yard
tore up. What really pisses me off is that they don't even use the stinking
yard for anything. I see them get the dog out and play with her about twice
a week and then the oldest who is about 15 doesn't always keep an eye on
her and she wanders.
I politely told the woman last fall when she wondered off that one night
that before winter came about that I thought they should get rid of her old
worn out dog box and get her one of the newer insulated ones. At least the
did listen to me on that point it's just to bad that I have to even tell
them they need to take better care of her.
Celeste
<gal...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1111425633.9...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Kyler Laird
>I was just looking at the PETA info on the local ordanances they have
>helped get passed. They outlaw any type of cable run but require a pen
>size of only 10'x15' = 150 square feet. Uh, my dogs each have 1800
>square feet.
It might not be as inconsistent as you seem to think it is. Cable runs,
chains and "invisible fences" do expose dogs to extra risks because they
do not keep out other animals (or children, ...). I don't know if this
is what they were thinking though.
--kyler
gal...@hotmail.com
> I agree with you completely. If these do gooders would look at
> themselfs or make the effort to help the shelters it would be
> different.
>
> I for one would rather see a dog on a trolley run with room to
> move about than stuck in some pen. I have a neighbor who has a
> wonderful dog that is stuck in a damned pen most of the time
> because they don't want the back yard tore up. What really
> pisses me off is that they don't even use the stinking yard for
> anything. I see them get the dog out and play with her about
> twice a week and then the oldest who is about 15 doesn't always
> keep an eye on her and she wanders.
>
> I politely told the woman last fall when she wondered off that
> one night that before winter came about that I thought they should
> get rid of her old worn out dog box and get her one of the newer
> insulated ones. At least the did listen to me on that point it's
> just to bad that I have to even tell them they need to take better
> care of her.
>
> Celeste
>
I was just looking at the PETA info on the local ordanances they have
Spot
When I lived up on the mountain Brandy loved to stay outside during the day
and I would often put her on the trolley line while I was at work. She had
a 75 foot cable run through the middle of my yard with a 15 foot cable and
stops at the end to keep her from getting wrapped up around the trees. The
side yard that this trolley ran through was huge and she loved it. At one
end was grass and sunny spots to lay in and sun herself and on the other end
was a huge tree that provided shade all day along with a row of trees at the
edge of the woods for even more shade. She had a dog box to go into if she
wanted under the tree along with a 5 gallon bucket of water and food left
out for her.
The only time she thought life was even better were the few times she'd take
off into the woods trying to catch turkeys and wouldn't come out. I just
used to leave her be since I knew she'd stay put for hours waiting for them
and would be right there behind the house when I got home. I'd come back 4
or 5 hours later and pull in and she'd come out of the woods all played out
but happy as could be.
Once I moved to town I had to stop letting her out without supervision. It
wasn't that she barked or anything or that the yard wasn't fenced but due to
the fact that I caught some asshole trying to take her one day. She was the
type of dog who was friendly with everyone, more than once she jumped up
into the meter readers truck and thought she was going with him for a ride.
After that I never left her outside again unless we were with her.
Celeste
<gal...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1111502443....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
gal...@hotmail.com
Yes this is indeed part of their rationale, but I think they are being
too simple-minded. It seems they want to have an "emotional campaign"
and not a reasoned set of guidelines. If they are truly concerned about
the dogs they should also be against small cages, and not be promoting
them.
shelly
>Yes this is indeed part of their rationale, but I think they
>are being too simple-minded. It seems they want to have an
>"emotional campaign" and not a reasoned set of guidelines. If
>they are truly concerned about the dogs they should also be
>against small cages, and not be promoting them.
please define "small cages" and explain why their usage
should be stopped?
while i'm not a fan of leaving *any* dog outdoors
unsupervised, my own personal feelings are that there are
inherent problems with tying a dog out unsupervised that are
not present when leaving the dog in a "small cage"
unsupervised.
--
shelly
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette
http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com/
http://letters-to-esther.blogspot.com/
culprit
<gal...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1111596338.8...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Yes this is indeed part of their rationale, but I think they are being
> too simple-minded. It seems they want to have an "emotional campaign"
> and not a reasoned set of guidelines. If they are truly concerned about
> the dogs they should also be against small cages, and not be promoting
> them.
i'm not a huge PETA fan, but... how do you feel about crating a dog
indoors? my dogs live in "small cages" when unsupervised, because i don't
want to come home and find one of them has killed or injured the other.
yes, they get along fine when i'm home, but i'm not going to trust them to
ignore their instincts when i'm not home to stop them.
a lot of people with my breed (pit bulls) chain their dogs out in a yard on
short chains, so that they can't kill each other. they spend all day
lunging at each other and hitting the end of their chains hard enough to
damage their necks and terrifying their neighbors. is that any better than
a crate inside a warm home? i seriously doubt it.
personally i wouldn't ban chaining, as i'm against the government forcing
personal responsibility on people. but i also think it's simple minded to
bash cages if you don't know the circumstance.
-kelly
gal...@hotmail.com
I'm talking about outdoor cages and saying the PETA campaign is more
emotional than rational. As you say some people cage their dogs for
long periods indoors.
PETA wants to promote the idea that a 150 sq-ft. outdoor cage is better
than any outdoor chain, wire or tether and that these should be
illegal.
gal...@hotmail.com
> on 2005-03-23 at 08:45 <gal...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Yes this is indeed part of their rationale, but I think they
> >are being too simple-minded. It seems they want to have an
> >"emotional campaign" and not a reasoned set of guidelines. If
> >they are truly concerned about the dogs they should also be
> >against small cages, and not be promoting them.
>
> please define "small cages" and explain why their usage
> should be stopped?
I'm not saying it should be. PETA is the one pushing for laws.
culprit
<gal...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1111615775.4...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> I'm talking about outdoor cages and saying the PETA campaign is more
> emotional than rational. As you say some people cage their dogs for
> long periods indoors.
> PETA wants to promote the idea that a 150 sq-ft. outdoor cage is better
> than any outdoor chain, wire or tether and that these should be
> illegal.
well, PETA are a bunch of terrorist nut cases. what do you expect? :-)
-kelly
shelly
you stated that PeTA (remember kids, small "e" for "ethical"!) should
be against "small cages." not that i give a rat's behindermost parts
what flavor of idiocy PeTA is disseminating this week, but i fail to
see the point of your argument that because PeTA is against chaining
dogs they should also be against confining them to "small cages." what
do the two methods of confinement have to do with each other?
We must never forget that art is not a form of propaganda; it is a
form of truth.
-- John F. Kennedy 10/26/1963
gal...@hotmail.com
> gal...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >shelly wrote:
> >> <gal...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Yes this is indeed part of their rationale, but I think they
> >> >are being too simple-minded. It seems they want to have an
> >> >"emotional campaign" and not a reasoned set of guidelines. If
> >> >they are truly concerned about the dogs they should also be
> >> >against small cages, and not be promoting them.
> >>
> >> please define "small cages" and explain why their usage
> >> should be stopped?
> >
> >I'm not saying it should be. PETA is the one pushing for laws.
>
> you stated that PeTA (remember kids, small "e" for "ethical"!)
> should be against "small cages." not that i give a rat's
> behindermost parts what flavor of idiocy PeTA is disseminating
> this week, but i fail to see the point of your argument that
> because PeTA is against chaining dogs they should also be
> against confining them to "small cages." what do the two
> methods of confinement have to do with each other?
Short chain = small cage
penny
how can you help a dog who is chained up all the time? Sometimes the gov.
has to step in because otherwise some people would never do the right thing,
and that's harmful to others.
Penny
"culprit" <inv...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:3adsl4F...@individual.net...
gal...@hotmail.com
> If you're against the government legislating personal
> responsibility, then how can you help a dog who is
> chained up all the time? Sometimes the gov. has to
> step in because otherwise some people would never do
> the right thing, and that's harmful to others.
> Penny
>
Explain how a 10ft x 15ft pen is better than a 30ft x 60ft cable run.
The laws should make sense and not be driven by halfbaked emotional
PETA kneejerks. PETA wants to use a broad brush and paint a nice big
cable run into the same category as an inadequate 6ft chain.
shelly
>Explain how a 10ft x 15ft pen is better than a 30ft x 60ft cable run.
1. it does not allow the dog to hang itself on its collar (BTDT and
i'd rather not have a repeat).
2. it does not allow people or other animals to access your dog.
3. no chain to break or collar to slip.
4. can be attached to the house/garage with a dog door so that the dog
can come and go at will.
i'm not an advocate of leaving dogs outdoors unsupervised, especially
when no one is home, but if i had to do so and had to choose between a
pen and a cable run, i would choose a pen. a pen can be made
reasonably escape-proof and will provide the dog with considerably
more protection from other animals and people than a cable run.
the only possible plus i can see of a cable run over a pen is that it
allows the dog more room to exercise. if an owner expects that time
spent on a tie out should provide the dog with a significant amount of
exercise, that owner is neglecting the dog.
In order to change a color it is enough to change the color of its
background.
-- Michel Eugene Chevreul
gal...@hotmail.com
> gal...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >Explain how a 10ftx15ft pen is better than a 30ftx60ft cable run.
>
> 1. it does not allow the dog to hang itself on its collar (BTDT
> and i'd rather not have a repeat).
> 2. it does not allow people or other animals to access your dog.
> 3. no chain to break or collar to slip.
> 4. can be attached to the house/garage with a dog door so that
> the dog can come and go at will.
>
> [...]
Only a careless person would chain a dog so that it could hang itself.
I've heard of dogs hung up on fences too. A cable run is vastly more
cost-effective than a fence adequate for a large determined dog, per
square foot, and is usually employed in addition to other barriers.
Obviously there are practical differences when comparing what is
appropriate in a congested suburban/urban area and more rural areas.
shelly
>Only a careless person would chain a dog so that it could hang itself.
and yet, it happens.
>I've heard of dogs hung up on fences too.
yep. that's one of the reasons i don't think dogs should be left
outside unsupervised.
>A cable run is vastly more
>cost-effective than a fence adequate for a large determined dog, per
>square foot, and is usually employed in addition to other barriers.
if there is an additional barrier that is sufficient to keep other
animals/people out, then it is sufficient to keep a dog in. so, why
use a cable run?
very few of the chained dogs i see are within a fenced yard. usually
they are put on a chain because the owner will not or cannot put up a
fence.
>Obviously there are practical differences when comparing what is
>appropriate in a congested suburban/urban area and more rural areas.
perhaps. apartment dwellers don't usually have access to either
fenced yards or tie outs. their dogs must be walked on lead. this
isn't necessarily a bad thing. as for fencing, unless you live in an
area where there are rules/laws governing the types of fencing you may
erect, there is no difference between rural and suburban/urban areas.
i've lived in both rural and urban areas and have had unfenced and
fenced yards in both. in neither would i consider a mere tie out
sufficient for my dogs. they cannot get a reasonable amount of
exercise on a tie out, so it's only real purpose would be to allow the
dog to eliminate. lacking a fenced yard, i'd rather take them out on
leads for that than put them on a tie out.
I imagine that yes is the only living thing.
-- e.e. cummings
gal...@hotmail.com
>
> I have a beagle that can escape anything. I have a fenced
> yard, re-enforced with radio fencing. She still managed to
> escape. We now have (inside the fenced yard) a trolly cable
> just for the beagle. She cannot hang herself. She cannot get
> off. She cannot escape, and no dogs can get in and endanger
> her. Except for Coyotes, but they haven't. And she's not left
> out completely unsupervised.
My Chow-mix will climb anything; trees, fences... and he was a
rescue who would be a monster indoors. PETA's campaign will
simply result in more dogs being destroyed.
shelly
>My Chow-mix will climb anything; trees, fences... and he was a
>rescue who would be a monster indoors.
your dog lives outside on a chain? no wonder you're trying to justify
your behavior.
>PETA's campaign will simply result in more dogs being destroyed.
of course you'll see it that way, since you've set up the equation as
a simple binary. there *are* other options, whether or not you care
to pursue them is the issue.
disclaimer: that i disapprove of dogs living their lives at the end
of a chain should in no way be construed as an endorsement of PeTA
(remember, kids, small "e" for "ethical"!) and their asswagonry.
I do not want people to be agreeable, as it saves me the trouble of
liking them.
-- Jane Austen
diannes
>On 2 Apr 2005 11:18:40 -0800, gal...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>>My Chow-mix will climb anything; trees, fences... and he was a
>>rescue who would be a monster indoors.
>
> your dog lives outside on a chain? no wonder you're trying to justify
> your behavior.
shelly, shelly - I'm ashamed of you. You didn't peg that as the situation
from the very first post? You're slowing up, girl. <*g*>
Dianne (whose dog, who would be a monster if untrained :-), is sleeping
nicely on the couch beside me)
shelly
wrote:
>shelly, shelly - I'm ashamed of you. You didn't peg that as the situation
>from the very first post? You're slowing up, girl. <*g*>
i know. i'm getting soft in my old age. i thought i'd give the idjit
the benefit of the doubt, but i guess that was a silly thing to do.
>Dianne (whose dog, who would be a monster if untrained :-), is sleeping
>nicely on the couch beside me)
isn't it amazing what spending a little quality time and teaching a
few manners will do? my dogs can spend as much time as they want
outdoors playing (bitey-wrestle-mania is going on right now,
bay-BEE!), but *still* come in the house and sleep on the couch and
bed. oh, and for the OP, the fluffy dog is half Chow. amazing, isn't
it? i must be one 133t trainer if i can manage to make a *Chow* mix
behave in the house. HAW!!!1!
http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com/2005/04/rainy-day.html
Every good painter paints what he is.
-- Jackson Pollock
shelly
>My Chow-mix will climb anything; trees, fences... and he was a
>rescue who would be a monster indoors. PETA's campaign will
>simply result in more dogs being destroyed.
i don't know which group you're posting from, but there is no reason
for you to e-mail me privately. this discussion is on-topic for both
of the groups it's being x-posted to.
since you're so keen to continue the discussion, i'd be interested to
know whether or not the rescue group you got your "rescued" dog from
knows that it lives on a chain. i'm also curious about how much time
you generally spend interacting with the chained dog. what is its
quality of life? do you spend time walking, hiking, etc. with it?
When you are up against a wall, be still and put down roots like a
tree, until clarity comes from deeper sources, to see over the wall.
-- Carl Jung
diddy
<scouv...@bluemarble.net> whittled the following words:
>
> i don't know which group you're posting from, but there is no reason
> for you to e-mail me privately. this discussion is on-topic for both
> of the groups it's being x-posted to.
YIKES There go your fingers...
shelly
wrote:
>YIKES There go your fingers...
i guess he won't be typing any more posts then, eh?
why did you x-post this to *health? isn't there enough crap in that
group already?
To emphasize only the beautiful seems to me to be like a mathematical
system that only concerns itself with positive numbers.
-- Paul Klee
diddy
> On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 12:17:35 -0500, diddy <di...@nospam.diddy.net>
> wrote:
>
>>YIKES There go your fingers...
>
> i guess he won't be typing any more posts then, eh?
>
> why did you x-post this to *health? isn't there enough crap in that
> group already?
>
Because you are denying in health that you get snotty when someone e-mails
you privately. You seemed to have implied that private mail is accepted and
welcome.... But i guess that's only IF you are a part of your hiveminded
Cabal
This should be on record as a note of your wonderful character that you
deny exists <spit>
shelly
wrote:
>Because you are denying in health that you get snotty when someone e-mails
>you privately. You seemed to have implied that private mail is accepted and
>welcome....
no, that's not what i said or implied, no matter what you inferred.
you stated (for some inexplicable reason, since i've never had private
contact with you, so you couldn't possibly know) that i bite people's
fingers off for e-mailing me privately. i have stated on *numerous*
occasions that i don't object to private e-mail when it isn't
obnoxious. however, i generally feel that discussions that begin in a
particular newsgroup should stay in that newsgroup. since the
discussion in question was not off-topic for either of the groups it
was originally posted to and it was not of a personal nature, i see no
point in taking it to private e-mail.
>But i guess that's only IF you are a part of your hiveminded
>Cabal
>This should be on record as a note of your wonderful character that you
>deny exists <spit>
hot buttered Christ! how on earth have you come to the conclusion
that someone who thinks public discussions should stay public unless
there's a good reason is automagically of dubious character?
Color is all. When color is right, form is right. Color is everything,
color is vibration like music; everything is vibration.
-- Marc Chagall
ceb
news:g3vv4159jh4t6hveq...@4ax.com:
> i must be one 133t trainer if i can manage to make a *Chow* mix
> behave in the house. HAW!!!1!
>
Well, I know I am impressed. Behaving in the house? What fun is that???
--
Catherine
& Zoe the frequently well-behaved cockerchow & Queenie the retriever mix,
still learning what the great indoors is all about
shelly
>Well, I know I am impressed. Behaving in the house? What fun
>is that???
heh. that sounds like harriet-speak. ("behave? well, yes, i
*am* behaving." silly me forgot to stipulate *how* she should
behave. that'll learn me.) elliott, though, is pretty
gentlemanly in the house. he asks before getting on the
furniture ("if it's not too much trouble, would you mind
terribly if i just hopped up here and curled up on this tiny,
itty bitty corner of the couch? i promise, you'll hardly
notice i'm here.")
>Zoe the frequently well-behaved cockerchow & Queenie the
>retriever mix, still learning what the great indoors is all
>about
you'd better get those dogs outside, on a chain, before they
destroy your home! y0u hAv3 b33n wArN3d!11!!!
--
shelly
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette
http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com/
http://letters-to-esther.blogspot.com/ (updated 4/3/05)
ceb
news:Pine.BSF.4.56.05...@tesla.bluemarble.net:
>>Zoe the frequently well-behaved cockerchow & Queenie the
>>retriever mix, still learning what the great indoors is all
>>about
>
> you'd better get those dogs outside, on a chain, before they
> destroy your home! y0u hAv3 b33n wArN3d!11!!!
>
Queenie is a clever girl who used to escape from her tie-out on a regular
basis, prompting her then-owner to tell me he was going to take her to the
pound. The rest is history. Albeit very recent history.
She gets extremely upset when she sees other dogs on tie-outs. I swear you
can see the wheels turning "if I could just get off this dang-flang leash,
I could spring ya!"
--
Catherine
& Zoe & Queenie
& Rosalie the calico
gal...@hotmail.com
> [...] i'd be interested to know whether or not the rescue group
> you got your "rescued" dog from knows that it lives on a chain.
> i'm also curious about how much time you generally spend
> interacting with the chained dog. what is its quality of life?
> do you spend time walking, hiking, etc. with it?
>
I got the dog from an owner who wanted to kill it -- was trying to kill
it -- was shooting at it with a rifle. Probably some inbred relative of
yours. Equally arrogant and all-knowing. If a 10ft x 15ft cage makes
you PETA people happy then I have nothing to say to you.