TIP: aggressive behavior
BubblEGuM CrisiS
Test:
most dominating dogs won't let you close their mouths with your hand.. if you
don't think he will bite you, try to put your hand around his muzzle in a
calm, inquisitive way..
Subtle changes to make to adjust dominance attitudes:
1. "tower" over him any chance you get, that shows that you are boss.. lean
over him to pet him..
2. Don't scratch him under the chin very often and DEFINATELY not first..
scratch the top of his head so that your hand will be above his..
3. Look him directly in the eye often... You won't start being the dominant
one until you can stare the dog in the eyes and make him turn away...
4. When you take him outside and you start to come in, make sure that you come
in first..
5. Feed your family or yourself BEFORE you feed him.. make sure that he knows
you are eating and after you are all done, go get him some food..
6. If he bites you, don' pull your hand away.. dogs LIKE it when they show
dominance and you jump and scream.. Try sticking your hand further to the back
of thier mouth or bapping them on the nose with your other hand..
Not so subtle changes
1. Take all his toys and put them up, take them out when YOU want to play and
put them up when you are done.. You need to show him that you are the one that
controls everything he gets..
2. Don't listen to him when he wants to go outside.. Set times of the day
that you go outside and DON'T take him outside until those times unless it
looks like he might go on the carpet.. Make the time about 1 morning, one
noon, and one night with 1 about 15 min after every time he eats.. which
brings us to number 3
3. Don't leave food out all the time.. big dogs only eat about once or twice a
day unless it is sitting there.. Set times for him to eat, set the food down
and if he is picky about it and only picks at his food, pick it up and make
him wait until next time.. it is VERY important that you do all these things
at the same time every day until you get your point across..
REALLY not so subtle changes
disclaimer(grin): if your dog is big enough to actually hurt you while doing
the following, muzzle him first!!
1. Every so often, flip him onto his back and put your face right over his..
Put your knee (lightly!!) on his chest if you need to do so to hold him down..
Put him on his back, get right over him, and glare directly into his eyes
until he stops squirming or he looks away.. Do this when you play, when you
are just watching tv with your pup or even when you are outside.. If your pup
is EXTREEMLY willful, you might also show your teeth and make a low
grumble\growl...
Elaine Gallegos
BubblEGuM CrisiS (Bwal...@csc.com) wrote:
: Subtle changes to make to adjust dominance attitudes:
: 1. "tower" over him any chance you get,
Sure...tower over a dominance aggressive dog. Get it to resent you. Get
it mad. Be sure to stare it directly in the eye while you're at it, for
some extra oomph.
: that shows that you are boss..
It already either thinks that it is boss, and is perfectly willing to
fight you to prove it.
: lean
: over him to pet him..
Then, when you have him fighting mad, lean your face waaaaaaay over to
pet him. You can bet her's going to "pet" you back.
"Gee, doctor, I was JUST leaning over to pet him!"
: 2. Don't scratch him under the chin very often and DEFINATELY not first..
BubblEGuM CrisiS
>> 1. "tower" over him any chance you get,
>
> Sure...tower over a dominance aggressive dog. Get it to resent you. Get
>it mad. Be sure to stare it directly in the eye while you're at it, for
>some extra oomph.
>
>> that shows that you are boss..
>
>It already either thinks that it is boss, and is perfectly willing to
>fight you to prove it.
>
>>: lean
>>: over him to pet him..
>
> Then, when you have him fighting mad, lean your face waaaaaaay over to
>pet him. You can bet her's going to "pet" you back.
> "Gee, doctor, I was JUST leaning over to pet him!"
I am really tired of you.. I am trying to help pet owners by giving them
tips.. This one happened to be for owners that have entirely too aggressive
dogs and they are based on scientific fact, studies, and methods...
In other words, if you don't like it then delete it and keep you mouth
shut!!!.. The human race is becoming intolerant and it is because of people
like you that thinks everyone even half way want's to know what their opinion
is..
A more mature response to my e-mail would have been one that stated some
alternatives to training against aggressive behavior.. Which, judging by your
child like comments, would be something like "dress in full metal armor and
just let the dog bite at you.. it won't hurt you and it will be fun for the
dog"
I hope to God that you can not reproduce.
Bobby Walker
bwal...@csc.com
Ludwig Smith
On Thu, 18 Jun 1998 12:51:06 GMT, Bwal...@csc.com (BubblEGuM CrisiS)
wrote:
> I am trying to help pet owners by giving them
>tips.. This one happened to be for owners that have entirely too aggressive
>dogs and they are based on scientific fact, studies, and methods...
Most of those tips you provide, from whatever source they come, are
very likely to get someone bitten, most particularly from dogs that
are entirely too aggressive. Many of them actually sound like a list
of what not to do with dominant aggressive dogs.
I'm curious what publications or books from which you culled these
tips, in particular the scientific fact, studies and methods. Most of
the books and publications that I'm aware of eschew the tactics you
endorse for dealing with aggressive dogs. It is also the general
consensus of the newsgroup, which includes some extremely knowledgable
and experienced people, to avoid such confrontational methods.
Personally, I think that I would go with alternative methods that are
in general somewhat less confrontational. Particularly with dominant
aggressive dogs, aggressive challenges such as you endorse are likely
to be met back with a challenge. And for dogs that are shy and
frightened, such overwhelming challenges can possibly bring on a bite
because the dog feels overwhelmed and trapped.
In general, I think better alternatives can be found in the books
'People, Pooches and Problems' by Job Michael Evans and 'The Body
Language and Emotion of Dogs' by Myrna Milani. I would imagine that
Captain Haggerty's Aggression Newsletter has some good ways to deal
with aggressive dogs as well.
Additionally, one other thing that you didn't bring up was obedience
lessons and daily work with obedience to enforce good manners. With
dominant dogs, particularly stressing 'Sit', 'Stay', 'Down' and
eventually 'Roll Over'. That way you get the Alpha Roll that you like
without having to physically force a confrontation and without getting
close enough to get bitten.
Ludwig Smith
(top...@erols.com)
Dog FAQ's
http://www.k9web.com/dog-faqs/
Elaine Gallegos
BubblEGuM CrisiS (Bwal...@csc.com) wrote:
: I am really tired of you.. I am trying to help pet owners by giving them
: tips..
You're going to get someone bitten when they start playing these games
with a dog that has either already bitten them, or has no hesitation to
do so.
: This one happened to be for owners that have entirely too aggressive
: dogs and they are based on scientific fact, studies, and methods...
In other words, all theories.
: In other words, if you don't like it then delete it and keep you mouth
: shut!!!.. The human race is becoming intolerant
A dog perfectly willing to take a piece out of your face has no place in
a home. If that represents intolerance, you're right. I'm completely
intolerant of domestic violence, from ANY family member.
Joe Coulter
My dog bit me one time...ONE TIME! Now his gums just tickle. ;)
Joe
kandikay
Joe Coulter wrote:
>
> My dog bit me one time...ONE TIME! Now his gums just tickle. ;)
>
> Joe
Your dog had all his teeth pulled out?!?! I must be reading this
wrong...
Mary Healey
attribution snipped:
>> Sure...tower over a dominance aggressive dog. Get it to resent you. Get
>>it mad. Be sure to stare it directly in the eye while you're at it, for
>>some extra oomph.
Yup. Bad idea. Not too comfortable with the anthro-speak ("resent"?
"mad"?), but challenging an alpha dog who may or may not have proper bite
inhibition is stupid. (Which is not to say I haven't done it - but it was
still stupid.)
>>> that shows that you are boss..
Wrong. "Towering" over the dog, making eye contact, "crossing the tee",
and general dominance posturing only shows that you are CHALLENGING the
dog for status - not that that status is established or unquestioned. If
you *are* boss, all it takes is a word or a Look to administer a
correction.
>>>: lean
>>>: over him to pet him...
An e-mail list I'm on has just run through numerous examples of why this
is a Very Bad Idea, even for dogs that don't have dominance issues.
Getting nose-bonked, for example. Chipped teeth, broken glasses, broken
noses, painful retina tears - all the results of relatively fragile humans
leaning over to pet their friendly, happy, properly pack-ordered canine
companions instead of bending their d(*#Ned knees and squatting like
sensible humans.
>I am really tired of you.
Then give it a rest already.
> I am trying to help pet owners by giving them tips.
Giving bad advice is worse than being silent. Your friendly advice is an
invitation to get bitten, something that wasn't made clear in your initial
post.
>This one happened to be for owners that have entirely too aggressive
>dogs and they are based on scientific fact, studies, and methods...
But it's THE WRONG ADVICE. The dominance posturing that you suggest can
be effective with young, untried dogs that have not yet developed the
habit of behaving as alpha. It is dangerous and stupid to attempt those
same behaviors with an "entirely too aggressive dog" - you suggest using
severe corrections capriciously (which is NOT an "alpha" trait), and
delineate a course of action that can be ineffective or damaging to the
DOG if the problem has been incompletely or incorrectly described.
>In other words, if you don't like it then delete it and keep you mouth
>shut!
This is Usenet. Anyone can play. I *don't* like your advice, and I've
even done you the consideration of explaining why. I don't like it when
people suggest that random alpha rolls are a way of establishing
dominance (they aren't), when they give advice that can easily get
neophytes hurt (and their dogs dead).
>..it is because of people
>like you that thinks everyone even half way want's to know what their opinion
>is..
And it's because of people like you, my dear, that the rest of us have to
keep posting.
>A more mature response to my e-mail would have been one that stated some
>alternatives to training against aggressive behavior.
Nothing in Life is Free is one such suggestion. It is a
nonconfrontational approach to dominance and dominance aggression that
requires dedication, thoughtful application, and consistency to work. A
description can be found at http://www.goof.com/~pmurphy/NILIF.html. Of
course, the most effective course of action is one tailored specifically
to the particular dog and owner - for that, a hands-on evaluation by a
qualified trainer or behaviorist is invaluable.
Obedience training is often suggested as one way of addressing dominance
issues. It can be effective. Obedience is more than "teaching commands",
it's also a habit of command (or, for the dog, a habit of deference).
Just remember that a dog that is threatening or "bossing" humans has
already gotten into the habit of being deferred to and it will take time
to make any changes of rank into habit. Pretty much any activity or sport
that encourages the dog to take direction from his human (e.g., obedience,
agility, herding, and hunting) might be effective to make this transition
smoother.
M.
tmcc...@axnet.com
On 18 Jun 1998 15:44:13 GMT, ela...@garcia.efn.org (Elaine Gallegos)
wrote:
If I may toss in my 2 cents....
1) It never siezes to amaze me that way people treat each other on the
Internet, weather it's on newsgroups, IRC or Web chats. I hear and
see things being done that someone would *never* do face to face.
Rule #1, remember, there is a *person* with feelings emotions and
pride at the other end of the News thread / Chat Channel / Web Window,
and not everyone shares the same opion. Offer the same respect that
you would expect in kind.
2) Both of you are right in your observations.
It's pretty unlikly that a dog that has already determined the pack
order in a home, and that has installed himself as the alpha is going
to give it up without a fight. (Remember, he was *allowed* to become
the Alpha by the family, who didn't challenge his authority).
I probably would immediatly introduce a new member to the pack such as
a professional trainer, someone who can establish himself / herself
over the dog. Then allow the trainer to move you and you're family
into the number 2 position. Subtle things like controlling the
environement without taking away his Alpha status will probably will
probably just create a dog that tolorates you because he needs you,
but will never respect you.
Once the trainer has shown the dog that "he" is the boss, and that
"he" is allowing you to excersise your will over the dog, then the
other suggestions would be fine as re-enforcements. *But*, it's also
pretty likely that the dog will challenge again when he's alone with
you, so unless you are prepared to aswer the challenge, get rid of the
dog.
I suppose this a good case for training early and often huh?
Just my 2 cent's is all.
>BubblEGuM CrisiS (Bwal...@csc.com) wrote:
>
>: I am really tired of you.. I am trying to help pet owners by giving them
>: tips..
>
> You're going to get someone bitten when they start playing these games
>with a dog that has either already bitten them, or has no hesitation to
>do so.
>
>: This one happened to be for owners that have entirely too aggressive
>: dogs and they are based on scientific fact, studies, and methods...
>
Joe Coulter
Fran
tmcc...@nospam.axnet.com wrote:
> 1) It never siezes to amaze me that way people treat each other on the
> Internet, weather it's on newsgroups, IRC or Web chats. I hear and
> see things being done that someone would *never* do face to face.
> Rule #1, remember, there is a *person* with feelings emotions and
> pride at the other end of the News thread / Chat Channel / Web Window,
> and not everyone shares the same opion. Offer the same respect that
> you would expect in kind.
Amen to that!
Chris Kosmakos
Ludwig Smith (qbc...@rebyf.pbz) wrote:
: Most of those tips you provide, from whatever source they come, are
: very likely to get someone bitten, most particularly from dogs that
: are entirely too aggressive. Many of them actually sound like a list
: of what not to do with dominant aggressive dogs.
Absolutely. I keep hearing people talk about tricks to enforce pack
alpha status, but I think the best and most successful "trick" is setting
the handler's head on straight. If a human is fair and consistent with
a dog and just assumes that the dog will be cooperative, funny thing,
they usually do. If the human radiates lack of confidence because they're
busy worrying about having to prove their "alphaness", dogs do all sorts
of unpredicable things in reaction. Yeah, my dogs don't go through an open
door until I do, but it is because that's the way the world is at my
house, not because I'm trying to prove something to them. I assume that
I'm the human and they're the dogs and they seem to quickly get that idea
and agree.
Lynn K.
--
chri...@netcom.com
red-dobe
Are you serious? Or is this some kind of bad joke to promote "Aesthetic
& Facial Plastic Reconstructive Surgery" month like those anti-smoking
ads?
Just to put this on a serious level, perhaps you could tell us about
your experience with aggressive dogs, and what breeds you have had
experience with,
if any....or would it be easier to just tell us how many times you have
been bitten? :|
You might want to think about listing some First-Aid instructions after
your "tips"...like how to pack a nose or a finger in ice for
re-attachment....
BubblEGuM CrisiS wrote:
> Test:
>
> most dominating dogs won't let you close their mouths with your hand.. if you
> don't think he will bite you, try to put your hand around his muzzle in a
> calm, inquisitive way..
>
> Subtle changes to make to adjust dominance attitudes:
>
> 1. "tower" over him any chance you get, that shows that you are boss.. lean
> over him to pet him..
--
Lisa ldouz@earthlinkdotnet
(to email, replace dot)
LETH'R
Annabelle Spencer
In article <358989...@concentric.net>, kandikay
<kand...@concentric.net> writes
>Joe Coulter wrote:
>>
>> My dog bit me one time...ONE TIME! Now his gums just tickle. ;)
>>
>> Joe
>
>Your dog had all his teeth pulled out?!?! I must be reading this
>wrong...
If you aren't reading it as a joke then - yes, you must be reading it
wrong.
--
Annabelle Spencer
Mitzi
Good Lord, my Pyrenees would wet all over themselves LOL!!
BubblEGuM CrisiS wrote:
> Test:
Sam and Karen Smith
I tried the holding my pekes mouth shut thing just for fun. She bounced back and
wagged her tail ready to play. I did it to my pyranees and she just sat there but
when I let go she looked really hurt and went under the house. I had to go find a
treat and apologize. Does this mean they are not aggressive or dominant? Funny.
Karen
David W Allan
Sam and Karen Smith wrote in message <359ADA84...@sccoast.net>...
>I tried the holding my pekes mouth shut thing just for fun. She bounced
back and
>wagged her tail ready to play. I did it to my pyranees and she just sat
there but
>when I let go she looked really hurt and went under the house. I had to go
find a
>treat and apologize. Does this mean they are not aggressive or dominant?
Funny.
Very significant ---it depends on the context.