Concern about 'Performatrin' dog food
Bill Bell
Because he was in 'stage 2' renal failure, however, our veterinary recommended that we switch to food that is low in protein and phosphorus to reduce the load on his kidneys. She supplied us with a quantity of prescription diet based on duck.
Within about a day my dog no longer displayed any heightened thirst or need for frequent urination. Beyond that, his specific gravity is now 1.027.
I mention all this because the main change we made was from 'Performatrin natural Lamb Meal & Brown Rice Formula Adult Nutrition' to a product from Medical.
Has anyone else happened to have had similar experience with a recent batch of this product from 'Performatrin'? It is labelled 11:55 BB 24/12/11 (which we take to be a 'best before' date).
Thank you.
buglady
http://www.itchmoforums.com/
And BTW do a little research on protein and kidney disease. What's needed
is low phosphorus, not low protein:
http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidneyprotein.html
buglady
take out the dog before replying
"Bill Bell" <bell...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5478ec0d-1b6e-4d4d...@glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com...
Char
> My dog just got over a few weeks of kidney trouble. He was drinking large volumes of water, frequently urinating
in large volumes and the specific gravity of his urine was measured to
be 1.009. (I understand that normally it
would be about 1.035.) Various tests for bacterial agents proved to be
negative; it was unclear what might be causing
his diabetes insipidus.
>
> Because he was in 'stage 2' renal failure, however, our veterinary recommended that we switch to food that is low
in protein and phosphorus to reduce the load on his kidneys. She
supplied us with a quantity of prescription diet
based on duck.
Your veterinarian is clueless. Those prescription foods are junk and
long term will not help your dog.
>
> Within about a day my dog no longer displayed any heightened thirst or need for frequent urination. Beyond that,
his specific gravity is now 1.027.
>
> I mention all this because the main change we made was from 'Performatrin natural Lamb Meal& Brown Rice Formula
Adult Nutrition' to a product from Medical.
>
> Has anyone else happened to have had similar experience with a recent batch of this product from 'Performatrin'?
It is labelled 11:55 BB 24/12/11 (which we take to be a 'best before' date).
>
> Thank you.
All commercial dog foods can cause kidney problems, it's not just the
one you are feeding. Please try switching to a species appropriate diet
of real meat, bone and organ meats. The problem will disappear totally
and forever.
Dogs are not made to eat grains, vegetable oils(flax, canola),
vegetables in general and ones high in sugars in particular. I see it
also has rosemary in it which can cause seizures in some dogs.
The oils appropriate for dogs are fish body oils because they are meat
based.
One of the most perfect foods for kidney patients is Raw Green Tripe.
Naturally low in phosphorus with a perfect amount of calcium through
non-bone sources to bind what phosphorus there is, it tends to be a
favorite of most all dogs (cats, not as much as they aren’t drawn nearly
so much to smelly foods). Many dogs who will not or have stopped eating
their prescription kibble will begin to eat once more when faced with a
pungent bowl of raw tripe.
As stated by leading dog health author, Ann N. Martin, “The pet food
industry, a billion dollar, unregulated operation, feeds on the garbage
that otherwise would wind up in landfills or be transformed into
fertiliser. Such a diet contributes to cancer, skin problems, allergies,
hypertension, kidney and liver failure, heart disease and dental problems.”
Even when a dog food formula professes to help with renal failure, it is
still an overcooked food source rife with additives and preservatives
allowing it to keep on store shelves for months if not several years at
a time. A dog that has been diagnosed with kidney disease and begins
treatment but still subsists on a commercial dog food diet has little
hope of winning its battle while still ingesting a steady stream of
chemical toxins. The best hope for treating and preventing kidney
disease in dogs is to return to the diet Mother Nature developed the
canine species on over 15 million years: a diet put together around the
basics of raw meat and bone.
A fresh food source of raw meat and bone is filled with the live
enzymes, phytochemicals, antioxidants, flavinoids, vitamins, minerals
and the full range of over 35 proteins that work as both food and
medicine in the canine body. This means preventing and treating kidney
disease in dogs has nothing to do with trips to the vet and expensive
medications. It’s as simple as feeding a diet canines already
instinctively crave and love. Each and every nutrient is processed
effectively and efficiently. Unlike commercial dog foods, the
inexpensive cuts of raw meat, bone and offal are economical to feed and
can have pet owners slashing their vet bills by up to 85%; and unlike
commercial dog foods, the inexpensive cuts of raw meat, bone and offal
will markedly extend a dog’s lifespan rather than shorten it.
One more note. Grapes and raisins have been found to kill and injure
dogs, specifically the kidneys and can do it without a great deal of
their use. Never give either one to dogs.
Char
Jo Wolf
dogs was done WAY back in the late 1930s. It was done on Rats, not on
Dogs, according to an article published in Purina's breeders magazine in
the early 1990s.
At that time, Purina was reviewing the content of "seniors" dog foods,
designed for dogs over the age of 7 years. It was presumed, due to that
earlier research, that most older dogs developed renal failure and
needed a low protein food. What they found was that the older dog
indeed needed somewhat more protein than younger adult dogs, and that
reletively few uremic dogs benefitted from lowering the protein content
of their food. (But also found that most older rats Did develop renal
failure, that Did respond to lower protein... or was interpretted to do
so.) The lower CALORIE food (resulting from cutting both protien and
fat content in most seniors foods of that time) only benefitted Some
dogs that were obese. As it was presumed by many companies active at
that time that most dogs who were older were obese, many brands retain
low protein, lower fat formulas for "seniors". Purina changed the
formula of "senior" ProPlan to fit the findings of their new research,
but did not do so in their "supermarket" quality brands.... some of
which remain unchanged today.
It was at about that time that other researchers began to look seriously
at dietary needs of dogs in renal failure. It was also at that time
that I stopped using puppy formulas and had never begun using
"seniors"....
The raw feeding that Char advocates is not for everyone, and you
Certainly are not a "bad dog owner" if you do not choose to feed that
way. If you wish to discuss this issue with your vet, print out some of
the articles in that list and take them to your vet. Most vets only
know what the salesmen tell them about commercial foods and about animal
nutrition, to include prescription foods; small animal nutrition is only
recently becoming a required subject in vet schools.....
Jo
Steve Crane
unequivocally prove that restricting phosphorus, restricting protein
(the source of the vast majority of dietary phosphorus) and increasing
Omega 3 fatty acids which protect renal tubules is hugely beneficial
to dogs and cat which have renal failure.
Clinical Effects of Dietary Modification of treatment of spontaneous
chronic renal failure. Jacob, Polzin, Osborne, Journal of American
Veterinary Medical Association, 2002, Vol 220, pg 1163-1170
Clinical Evaluation of Effects of Dietary Modification in Cats with
Spontaneous Chronic Renal Failure
S. Ross1; C. Osborne1; D. Polzin1; S. Lowry2; C. Kirk3; L. Koehler1
1College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Minnesota, St. Paul, MN;
2Hill's Science and Technology Center, Topeka, KS; 3 College of
Veterinary Medicine, The University of Tennessee, Knoxville, TN 2005
The third was a study in cats done in Europe by Dr. Plantinga.
In contrast there is not a single published clinical study anywhere
that suggests feeding high protein foods which are necessarily high in
phosphorus contributes anything positive in renal failure dogs or
cats.
Consider that renal diets generally have a phosphorus level of about
0.2% to 0.3% in the finished food.
Feeding a dog with renal disease a "green tripe" diet would seem to be
precisely the opposite of what all the studies show.
buglady
yourself!
..............And once again for the nineteenth billion time, the words high
protein don't necessarily come into it.
Restrict phosphorus, yes, restrict protein no.
Let's all bow to Evidence Based Medicine!
My moderate renal failure cat made it to 20.5 years w/o restriction of
protein.
buglady
take out the dog before replying
"Steve Crane" <s...@sunflower.com> wrote in message
news:4a3e6d40-d42b-4645...@q12g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
Jo Wolf
there is no danger that a dog in my home that is in renal failure will
get that in it's diet....
The elderly dog in "slow" renal failure is a much different critter than
the dog in acute renal failure. Case in point was Old Max, who came to
me at a 12 1/2 due to a family disaster. Several years earlier, he had
survived a sudden nearly complete renal shut down and spent weeks at the
vet school hospital. Everything was clinking along normally when I got
him, and I consulted his specialist at the vet school by phone after I
got a set of chemistries done, and I was told to keep him on a good
adult maintenance food.... at that time I was feeding about 25-26'% Pro.
At 14, I got back lab results that indicated early failure. The
consultant said to keep him on that food and if there was a major change
(he specified what that would be, but it's been long enough that I don't
recall the numbers) within three months to make a switch to k/d.... with
which my vet agreed. Although kidney function had Slowly decreased by
the time he died at 16 1/2, he still was within the parameters the
specialist had set and was still on a standard adult maintenance feed I
was using for all of my dogs. He just died peacefully in his sleep
after a normal-for-him day of pottering about the yard and house....
The major point being that Most old dogs do not need a low protein (or
low phosphorus) diet just because they are old.... because they do not
have acute renal failure..... just are "wearing out" everywhere IF their
labs indicate some loss of renal function. Not talking about an 8-10 yo
dog in a breed that normally lives to 16.... The specialist told me
that these old guys do not show a strong benefit on a renal diet, and
usually do not have fast progression of the renal failure. I presume he
knew a great deal about the subject, as a full professor of internal
medicine/nephrology.
My current 15 yo now has a "high normal" on BUN and creatinine, and the
vet said to make no changes in his diet.... 34% Pro. He's healthy, very
active, and has excellent muscle mass for age. Goes up stairs a lot
faster than I do.... A "little deaf".... not unusual.
BTW, the only vets I know here who still advocate a lowered Pro
"seniors" diet say that these are for the last 1/4 or less of the
expected lifespan, not arbitrarily at age 8 years.
Jo Wolf
Martinez, Georgia
cshenk
> The elderly dog in "slow" renal failure is a much different critter than
> the dog in acute renal failure.
> The major point being that Most old dogs do not need a low protein (or
> low phosphorus) diet just because they are old.... because they do not
> have acute renal failure..... just are "wearing out" everywhere IF their
Yup. Just like people, their kidney function goes down a bit as they get
older. It;s natural and diet won't change that one.
> My current 15 yo now has a "high normal" on BUN and creatinine, and the
> vet said to make no changes in his diet.... 34% Pro. He's healthy, very
> active, and has excellent muscle mass for age. Goes up stairs a lot
> faster than I do.... A "little deaf".... not unusual.
Grin, Mabel gets total 'high=good' on this one. It's one of several reasons
why we elected to have her dental work done. It looks like just maybe, this
elderly lady if well cared for now, may have several years in her yet if
they've nipped what may have been cancer.
> BTW, the only vets I know here who still advocate a lowered Pro
> "seniors" diet say that these are for the last 1/4 or less of the
> expected lifespan, not arbitrarily at age 8 years.
Dunno much on that. My vet seems to think unless there are issues, don't
worry about it.
buglady
"Jo Wolf" <jo-...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:8362-4D75...@storefull-3112.bay.webtv.net...
> BTW, the only vets I know here who still advocate a lowered Pro "seniors"
> diet say that these are for the last 1/4 or less of the
expected lifespan, not arbitrarily at age 8 years.
.........They're probably not in the employ of Hills either!
Or are you still working there Steve?
<g>
Jo Wolf
because the research was done by Purina...... {chuckle} I'd forgotten
that's where he worked when I used to come in here before.
Jo Wolf
Martinez, Georgia
cshenk
> "Jo Wolf" wrote
>> My current 15 yo now has a "high normal" on BUN and creatinine, and the
>> vet said to make no changes in his diet.... 34% Pro. He's healthy, very
>> active, and has excellent muscle mass for age. Goes up stairs a lot
>> faster than I do.... A "little deaf".... not unusual.
>
> Grin, Mabel gets total 'high=good' on this one. It's one of several
> reasons why we elected to have her dental work done. It looks like just
> maybe, this elderly lady if well cared for now, may have several years in
> her yet if they've nipped what may have been cancer.
Aunti Mabel Anne has fully recovered and is back on her normal ground RMB
with treats. She'd started trying to sneak Cash's bone into her room for
the night so she has one of her own size in there now.
Being smaller and much smaller jawed, the big ones he gets she can just nose
into her area and he tends to pick them up and walk back with them (grin).
She instead gets the meaty rib bones which she can carry and hold easier in
her paws as she knarfs them.
She's obviously feeling better. Spent most of the morning grabbing Cash
toys and dropping them on him then playing tug-o-war. Her favorite is a
rope with 2 knots and she will trail it before him until he grabs the other
end and starts a mock-war.
Hush your giggling now. It's nap-time!
Bill Bell
> My dog just got over a few weeks of kidney trouble. ...
My apologies for being so long in responding! Thanks to everyone who
offered advice, or at least read my request for help. I would like to
report what happened.
We talked to various knowledgeable people about our problem, as well
as yourselves. Finally someone (can't remember who) suggested Royal
Canin MediCal food based on duck. Within days, my dog's unquenchable
thirst disappeared, as did his frequent need to urinate, and his
urine's specific gravity popped back up to normal. We had to
administer antibiotics to clear some bacteria from his urine for a few
weeks but he's ok now.
Anyway, thought you might like to know what happened in this case.
Thanks you very much for your help.
Jo Wolf
now doing well.
Jo Wolf
Martinez, Georgia
Steve Crane
I am now an old and retired person - which I truly love. My
original comment was been pretty clear, protein is not the culprit,
never has been - but divorcing the phosphorus that naturally comes in
with nearly all proteins is just about impossible. High protein foods
will almost always contain much higher levels of phos. You simply
can't get down to the level of phosphorus well documented and proven
to be effective, without reducing the protein as well.
We can always point to examples that are contrary to what the
evidence is. My great grandmother smoked until she died at 93 - that
doesn't mean it's appropriate for everyone to smoke. I'm glad your cat
made it to that age on high protein foods - but that's an "n" of 1 -
like my 93 year old grandmother. The published studies and evidence
are overwhelmingly in favor of reduced levels of phos, and increased
levels of Omega 3 fatty acids for animals with renal failure.
Steve Crane
areas. Interestingly - their renal diet for dogs contains slightly
less protein - and about the same amount of phosphorus as k/d. While
the protein leve in NF is set about half a percent higher, the
digestibility is quite a bit lower, thus to total protein available is
slightly less than k/d. Purina obviously believes low protein and the
low phos that comes with it are correct for renal failure dogs.
buglady
Hello Buglady,
I am now an old and retired person - which I truly love.
.........Well good! Hope you enjoy yourself. Too many don't know how to
after they retire.
. I'm glad your cat
>made it to that age on high protein foods - but that's an "n" of 1 -
............Most people only care about the "n"s in their household!
buglady
Finally someone (can't remember who) suggested Royal
Canin MediCal food based on duck. Within days, my dog's unquenchable thirst
disappeared, as did his frequent need to urinate, and his urine's specific
gravity popped back up to normal. We had to
administer antibiotics to clear some bacteria from his urine for a few weeks
but he's ok now.
.............Thanks for posting back - glad to hear your pup is doing well.
I'll just say, though, that you may not want to stay on a prescription diet
forever, especially if it's some kind of renal diet. There may be no need.
I couldn't find any kind of Medi-cal food with duck except the
hypoallergenic. Is this what your pup is on?
Bill Bell
> I'll just say, though, that you may not want to stay on a prescription diet
> forever, especially if it's some kind of renal diet. There may be no need.
> I couldn't find any kind of Medi-cal food with duck except the
> hypoallergenic. Is this what your pup is on?
Yes, that's right. Forgot to mention that. It might be important too.
We give him biweekly injections that have been formulated by a
specialist against various allergens.
Bill
buglady
............Ah, OK!
skennyre...@gmail.com
I adopted 2 surrendered Westies, half-sisters (& unbelievably half sisters of my Betty), one of which has TERRIBLE skin allergies - partly why they were surrendered. 'WESTIES IN NEED' got the weeping sores under control & sent them to me with a dry kibble called PULSAR. It's made in Saskatchewan and contains fish & 'pulses', i dunno, something to do with beansprouts and lentilsprouts, and vitamins. That's it. It does NOT smell fishy. It is not more expensive than other quality foods. Problem, if it is one, is that you can only buy it at Global Petfood & not all of them carry it, but if you buy it regularly, they'll get it in. She still has summer allergies but has never had the yeast, sores, etc. I DO wash her every week with special shampoo.
RE: raw meat. I contacted the Veterinary College at the University of Guelph, Ontario, Canada to ask them about that. Their response was that if my animals ever needed their services (& MaggIe has broken and cracked teeth), they WOULD NOT be able to let them in because of the bacteria they're subjected to from raw meat (it could potentially contaminate sensItive areas/animals/people at the University). My opinion is, if it's not okay for the University of Guelph, School of Veterinary Medicine, it's good enough for me. Furthermore, two vets told me that Maggie's dental issues may stem from chewing hard bones. :(
bbi...@gmail.com
I live in Saskatoon and I have found this brand as well as other specialty brands at stores such as, Early's, and 'mom and pop' stores. The proteins are vast, such as most fishes, venison, kangaroo, duck, ...
antra...@yahoo.com
shadowb...@yahoo.ca
cshenk
free.
Studies on renal diets seem to date back to rats in the 30's although
there may be some also in the 90's. Generally you want low phosphorous
which drives the low protien (meats are high phosphorous).
As to the round-up, I'd give that one a bypass but if you really think
that, look for an organic dog food. I've had a high-allergy dog here
(now RB age 20.5 estimated). Blue Buffalo limited diet helped her out.
