How do I instill fear in a dog?
woof...@yahoo.co.uk
times in the past two months and I've had enough of
it. I've done everything possible to placate it, and
all the talk about curing with kindness is rubbish. As
he refuses to get rid of it I want to, need to break
its spirit. What can I do to make a dog fear me, I
mean really fear me. I don't mind beating it but don't
want it to turn ferocious. I want it to quiver in fear
every time it sees me. Let it hate as long as it
fears. I know this sounds cruel but you didn't have to
have four stitches in your leg.
buglady
<woof...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1183974260....@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
I don't mind beating it but don't
> want it to turn ferocious. I want it to quiver in fear
> every time it sees me.
......the best way to do this is, every time you see the dog, hit yourself
over the head with a 2 X 4. If the dog does not leave your presence
immediately keeping hitting yourself. Do not fail to do this one time, or
the lesson will be ruined.
woof...@yahoo.co.uk
> <woofy...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
Thanks for your suggestion; it obviously worked for you because you
are just as obviously braindead.
If i can't instill fear in this dog within a week or two I'm going to
poison it with warfarin, so please make your next suggestion more
intelligent.
have a nice day.
Dan S.
A dog will usually bite out of fear. Are you nervous around dogs?
Your best bet it to ignore it (i.e. don't try to be its friend in any
way) or move in with your brother so the dog will become used to you.
--
Yours,
Dan S.
When it seems like the world has taken everything from you, you just
might find that God was preparing you to begin giving.
woof...@yahoo.co.uk
wrote:
> woofy...@yahoo.co.uk wrote :
>
> > My brother's Yorkshire Terrier has bitten me three
> > times in the past two months and I've had enough of
> > it. I've done everything possible to placate it, and
> > all the talk about curing with kindness is rubbish. As
> > he refuses to get rid of it I want to, need to break
> > its spirit. What can I do to make a dog fear me, I
> > mean really fear me. I don't mind beating it but don't
> > want it to turn ferocious. I want it to quiver in fear
> > every time it sees me. Let it hate as long as it
> > fears. I know this sounds cruel but you didn't have to
> > have four stitches in your leg.
>
> A dog will usually bite out of fear. Are you nervous around dogs?
> Your best bet it to ignore it (i.e. don't try to be its friend in any
> way) or move in with your brother so the dog will become used to you.
>
> --
We both live at home with our parents. I'm not the least bit nervous
or dogs, we had one before, but this one is just evil. I've tried
everything but it obviously hates me for some reason although it has
bitten my Mum at least once. I need some positive advice. I don't
particularly want to inflict pain on it but it must learn who is
mistress, so when all else fails...
Dan S.
I say again ... dogs usually bite out of fear ... your desire to
instill fear is counter-productive, as it is already afraid of you.
Dogs are domesticated. That is, they have been bred to live amoungst
people. Your actions will determine how the dog reacts. But, rest
assured, that whatever it is that you *have* been doing, it is already
afraid of you. You want to gain its trust. But, obviously, whatever
it is that you have been doing in the past is not the way. Have a nice
day.
--
Yours,
Dan S.
Correct spelling, in all its forms, is an abomination to the
right-minded amoung us.
doglinks
because he bit you.
So you think that if he's afraid of YOU, he won't come close to you.
Hum.. that's a human's way of looking at it. Think what the dog would
think.
The reason he's biting you because he fears you already! He's
protecting himself before you instill pain in him.
I suggest that this dog be put away in another room while you are
visiting. This, of course, is to protect the dog!
/Natalie
woof...@yahoo.co.uk
> I say again ... dogs usually bite out of fear ... your desire to
> instill fear is counter-productive, as it is already afraid of you.
> Dogs are domesticated. That is, they have been bred to live amoungst
> people. Your actions will determine how the dog reacts. But, rest
> assured, that whatever it is that you *have* been doing, it is already
> afraid of you. You want to gain its trust. But, obviously, whatever
> it is that you have been doing in the past is not the way. Have a nice
> day.
>
rape victims deserve it too?
Nor do I take kindly to the suggestion that I am at fault and should
avoid an animal in the house I grew up in. This animal is just plain
evil. I think I'll enjoy killing it. I bought some poison this
morning.
Dan S.
can you say plonk file?
--
Yours,
Dan S.
Rightee tightee, leftee loosee, right?
amy...@roadrunner.com
>
> As you say USUALLY. Thanks for all the empathy in this group; perhaps
> rape victims deserve it too?
>
> Nor do I take kindly to the suggestion that I am at fault and should
> avoid an animal in the house I grew up in. This animal is just plain
> evil. I think I'll enjoy killing it. I bought some poison this
> morning.
Since you and your brother still live at home, I'm assuming that
you're both still children (high-school age or younger) and you don't
have a job that would allow you to just pick up and move out. Nor
should you have to! You're correct that you shouldn't be chased out of
your own home. And since you're still a child, you absolutely should
not be making the decision to re-home a dog, euthanize a dog, train a
dog, or poison a dog. Your mum and dad (if you have a dad) should be
taking care of your health and well-being (prioritizing you over the
dog), and should be making these decisions. There's no way in hell my
parents would have let me get bit twice by a dog, much less three
times to the point of needing stiches. I think that's terrible. Before
you poison the dog, tell your mum what you plan to do and see what she
says. Also, I don't know anything about British law, but I'm assuming
that poisoning a dog is illegal and since you've admitted your guilt
in writing over the Internet, you could get into some serious trouble.
By the way, did you really think you'd get instructions on how to
mistreat a dog from a newsgroup full of dog-lovers???
Amy
GGVA
http://www.ukpets.co.uk/?section=Home&sub=News&method=fetch&item=1245
Larry Caldwell
woof...@yahoo.co.uk (woof...@yahoo.co.uk) says...
That's the wrong approach. You need to kill the dog. A biting dog
should not be allowed to live. Maybe your brother will have better luck
with his next dog.
--
For email, replace firstnamelastinitial
with my first name and last initial.
kirst...@yahoo.com
Hi There,
I am a Los Angeles based animal trainer with extensive experience in
working with and behavioraly rehabilitating aggressive dogs. It is
not uncommon for toy breeds to take on neurotic behaviors that can
manifest as aggression. I am happy to assist you in sorting out your
problem. Please email me directly and I am certain I can help you
sort out much of what is going on between you and your brother's dog.
I need A LOT more information about what is going on than what you
have written in your posting, as it does not cover what I need to know
ahead of time in order to properly evaluate where this aggression is
coming from and, from there, how to improve on your situation.
Also...I take it that you do not have a awful lot of experience with
dogs at this point. You'll note the rather aggressive response your
posting received. This is because dog's really are well suited to
become family members. Beating a 5 pound is not how one would
integrate it into the family structure not would it resolve it's
aggression. Yes, it would scare the shit out of the dog but really
there are about 50 better ways you ought to proceed. Real men don't
beat toy breeds...real men sort out the problem. I am offering you my
services free of charge. Please take advantage of this and let's make
you and your brother's dog all the happier for having done so.
With kind regards,
kirstin
TheSincerelyIncrediblyFreakinInsanelySimplyAmazingGrandPuppyChildPussyBirdyGoatFerettAndHorseyWizard
WELCOME to The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin
Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child,
Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferett, Monkey And Horsey
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog, Child, Kat, Goat, Ferett, Monkey And
Horse Training Method Manual Forums And
Human And Animal Behavior Forensic Sciences
Research Laboratory <{); ~ ) >
I'm Jerry Howe, The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin
Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy,
Birdy, Goat, Ferett, Monkey And Horsey Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
<woof...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1183974260....@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> My brother's Yorkshire Terrier has bitten me three
> times in the past two months and I've had enough of
> it.
ALL aggression is FEAR. ALL FEAR is CAUSED
BY MISHANDLING. You and your brother's dog
should NOT have to live in fear of each other.
You can quickly and EZily EXXXTINGUISH fears
using EFFECTIVE, NON PHYSICAL, SCIENTIFIIC Pavlovian and Ericksonian
CONDITIONING as taught
in your own FREE COPY of The Simply Amazing Puppy
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual:
http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard/
You won't need to handle the dog or even study the
entire text. Just follow the instructions in chapter 7
and give the manual to your brother to study and
learn what he needs to know to pupperly handle
and raise his dog.
> I've done everything possible to placate it, and
> all the talk about curing with kindness is rubbish.
Of curse! EVERY THING we've been taught about
dog trainin and behavior is SHEER IDIOCY. Offering
BRIBES for "good behavior" usually results in the dog
demanding his bribe and DOIN the BAD BEHAVIOR
in order to ENFORCE gettin his bribe:
"Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVER LEARNING THEORY model involves the USE OF
PUNISHMENT.
Of curse, Skinner has never to my knowledge,
demonstrated HOWE we escape the phenomenon that
an expected reward not received is experienced as a
punishment and can produce extensive and persistent
aggression (Azrin et al, 1966)."
> As he refuses to get rid of it I
> want to, need to break its spirit.
Of curse. You can accomplish that by punishing
him consistenly using "reverse psychology". In
dog training and behavior, EVERY THING is
EXXXACTLY PRECISELY OPPOSITE of
HOWE we've been taught by the self professed
EXXXPERTS who jerk choke shock bribe crate
intimidate surgically sexually mutilate and murder
innocent defenseless dumb critters like the flamin
imbeciles who'd replied to your post in this thread,
EXXXCEPT for kristin, who seems as though she
thinks she can be heelpful, but in reality, will likeWIZE
resort to bribery and when that fails, punishment and
avoidance methods and when those fails, will recommend
GETTIN RID of the dog or MURDERIN IT.
> What can I do to make a dog fear me,
He already does fear you otherWIZE he wouldn't BITE.
You can PUNISHISH his FEAR behavior by PRAISING
him. HE'LL HATE THAT and will DO ANYTHING to
get you to STOP PRAISING HIM so's he can have an
EXXCUSE to ATTACK YOU AGAIN!
SEE?
PRAISE IS PUNISHMENT.
> I mean really fear me.
He already DOES. A dog can't get nodoGdameneD
more AFRAID than to have bitten you. SO, turn the
tables on him. YOU TRIED BEIN NICE... it didn't
work. Offer him PRAISE ONLY and he'll STOP
BEING MEAN to you so you won't be tellin him
"GOOD BOY!" EVERY TIME he looks at you.
> I don't mind beating it but don't
> want it to turn ferocious.
Physical and emotional pain, avoidance or
banishment techniques REWARD and
REINFORCE bad behaviors. THAT'S
HOWE COME these pathetic miserable
stinkin lyin animal murderin EXXXPERTS
MURDER their own aggressive dogs!
You AIN'T gonna get nodoGdameneD advice from them.
> I want it to quiver in fear every time it sees me.
TRUST ME. Soon as you start PUNISHING him
with PRAISE for growling at you, he's likely to shit
hisself JUST LIKE HOWE these pathetic gross
ignorameHOWESES *(144x more ignorameHOWES)
are chewin off their own legs at their ankles.
> Let it hate as long as it fears.
Oh, rest assured, he'll HATE YOU PLENTY if
you simply PRAISE HIM for growlin at you! He'll
think you're MOCKING him and he'll QUIVER IN
FEAR just like these dog lovers who had NO advice
GO INSANE when they read my successful student's
reports.
LIKE THIS:
Here's a trainer of 30 years experience:
From: BNTDO...@aol.com
To: jho...@bellsouth.net
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: THANKS ALISON! - "Owners Should
Always Be Given The Cold, Hard Facts: They Should
NEVER FEEL GUILTY For Having An Aggressive
Dog Euthanized."
Dear Jerry,
It's Kay here. I don't know who these people are that
maligning you and your training manual but tell them
from me that it does work.
Hunter is just doing so well even the people who
advocated putting him down are impressed with him.
I even started using it with the neighbor's dog.
I went over there to help her cut his nails. She
started yelling at him for growling at me. I told
her to tell him what a good boy he is instead.
Lo and behold he stopped growling
and I could do his nails. All 4 feet.
My dog Hunter was trained with the old jerk
and pull method and my other dog was trained
with treats.
Hunter has gotten his enthusiasm back for his
training and I couldn't be more pleased.
He even tried to kiss a child the other day.
Major break through.
This is the dog that a few months ago tried
to eat the kids through the fence. I can now
take him in the car with me again without
him trying to chase cars through the windshield.
So Jerry tell these people that the first
rule of dog training is Do No Harm.
The 2nd rule is whatever works
without breaking the first rule.
Aggressive dogs don't need to be put down.
Hunter was diagnosed aggressive and he is
going to stay alive and by my side where he
belongs.
Thank you so much.
Kay
-------
> I know this sounds cruel
NO PROBLEMO! I'm The World's CRUELEST Trainer!
> but you didn't have to have four stitches in your leg.
Don't worry abHOWET it. My breeds are Great Danes
and English Mastiffs, They'd of CRIPPLED you, maybe
worse.
Physical pain works beast on the HUMAN ANIMAL:
B.F. Skinner: Re-evaluation of Punishment
Don't you know it hurts so good.
Punishment, unfortunately traditionally overused, actually has been proven
not effective at long-term behavioral change, and creatures will find other
ways
of getting what it wants. In "Freedom and the control
of men" American Scholar, Winter 1955-56, 25, 47-65.
1956 he states:
If we no longer resort to torture in what we call the civilized world, we
nevertheless still make extensive
use of punitive techniques in both domestic and foreign relations. And
apparently for good reasons. Nature if
not God has created man in such a way that he can be controlled punitively.
People quickly become skillful punishers (if not, thereby, skillful
controllers), whereas alternative positive measures are not easily learned.
The need for punishment seems to have the support of history, and
alternative practices threaten the cherished values of freedom and dignity.
Fear involved with punishment causes frustration: with typical results
loathing, hostility and apathy. Skinner's teaching on the superiority of
posittive reinforcement's benefits for keeping desired behavior have proved
very valuable.
----------------------------
Sincerely,
Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
Human And Animal Behavior
Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory,
BIOSOUND Scientific,
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St
Orlando, FL 32805
Phone: 1-407-425-5092
E-mail:
Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Foren...@HotMail.Com
In Love And Light,
I Remain Respectfully, Humbly Yours,
Jerry Howe,
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
G-R-A-N-D
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Ferett, Goat, Monkey
And Horsey Wizard <{) ;~ ) >
HOWE MAY I SERVE YOU <{}; ~ ) >
Oxymel of Squill
Dogs are very sociable characters with a strict pecking order (do dogs
actually peck, I hear you ask?). Dog is probably trying to put you back in
your place because you have given it reason to suppose it is of higher
status than you are. If there's eating going on for example, make sure you
eat first and dog eats later. I certainly wouldn't placate (reward)
unpleasant behaviour. Dogs don't mind being at the bottom of the status
pyramid, what upsets them is others getting out of line.
As for the immediate problem, when it next being nasty roll it over onto his
back, quite forcefully, as though you mean it, and hold it there, show
you're stronger than it is and that you mean to have your own way. That puts
him in a submissive position which will transfer to attitude. Then have a
good snarl, bare your teeth and go to bite his throat. I don't recommend
actually biting as this can result in a mouthful of nasty hair, but expect
him to squeal or display some other form of gesture of submission. That's
what adult dogs do, go for the throat and accept the submission signal.
Once should be enough, but repeat if necessary
cheers
<woof...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1183974260....@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Oxymel of Squill
you need to establish.
Nexis
You should not own a dog. Give it to a rescue and buy yourself a stuffed animal.
kimberly
--
http://one.revver.com/watch/324733/flv/affiliate/99865
"I think that's my bathing suit. Is that one of my bathing suits? That is totally my
bathing suit"
Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Foren...@hotmail.com
On Jul 11, 1:53 pm, amy...@roadrunner.com wrote:
> On Jul 11, 7:40 am, woofy...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>
> > As you say USUALLY. Thanks for all the empathy in
> > this group; perhaps rape victims deserve it too?
>
> > Nor do I take kindly to the suggestion that I am at fault and should
> > avoid an animal in the house I grew up in. This animal is just plain
> > evil. I think I'll enjoy killing it. I bought some poison this morning.
Seems woofy didn't read her own FREE COPY of The Simply Amazing
Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Training Method Manual: http://relinkz.com/Lucky777
> Since you and your brother still live at home, I'm assuming that
> you're both still children (high-school age or younger) and you don't
> have a job that would allow you to just pick up and move out. Nor
> should you have to! You're correct that you shouldn't be chased out of
> your own home. And since you're still a child, you absolutely should
> not be making the decision to re-home a dog, euthanize a dog, train a
> dog, or poison a dog.
HOWE COME shouldn't she TRAIN the dog?
Of curse, she DON'T WANT NUTHIN to do with the dog and SHE DON'T
NEED TO if she STUDIES the INFORMATION to TRAIN the dog using
NON PHYSICAL SCIENTIFIC and PSYCHOLOGICAL Pavlovian and
Ericksonian CONDITIONING techniques on the LUCKY777 website <{}: ~ ) >
Despite that, her brother SHOULD do all the work.
> Your mum and dad (if you have a dad) should be taking care of your
> health and well-being (prioritizing you over the dog), and should be
> making these decisions.
You mean the decision to MURDER the dog. Don't matter if Woofy
POISONS the dog or the VETERINARY MALPRACTICIONER DOES
IT, it's STILL MURDER, AIN'T IT, amey63 <{}: ~ ( >
> There's no way in hell my parents would have let me get bit twice
> by a dog, much less three times to the point of needing stiches.
RIGHT. They'd of MURDERED IT toute suite!
> I think that's terrible.
Of curse you do!
> Before you poison the dog, tell your mum what you plan to do and see
> what she says. Also, I don't know anything about British law, but I'm
> assuming that poisoning a dog is illegal and since you've admitted your
> guilt in writing over the Internet, you could get into some serious trouble.
Oooooh, SCAREY!
> By the way, did you really think you'd get instructions on
> how to mistreat a dog from a newsgroup full of dog-lovers???
Of curse not!
> Amy
She'd get OBEDIENCE TRAINING ADVICE.
LIKE THIS:
"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction" --Janet Boss
"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828...@mb-m18.aol.com...
> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
> Janet Boss
>
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1...@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916...@mb-m17.aol.com...
> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.
An INSENSITIVE DOG???
> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
------------
"Reliable Punishment Cycles, Different Thresholds To
Pain And Punishment, High Tolerance For Correction,
Escalation Of Correction To A Level Where The Dog
Yelps When You Punish Him, Thus Making The
Experience One Which The Dog Will Want To Avoid
In The Future," grant teeboon, RAAF.
"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know Jack
Wouldn't Have Done It If He Thought Solo Couldn't
Take It. I Still Crate Him Because Otherwise I Fear
He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.
captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK"
Makes A ResoundingSound Distraction: "When
You Chuck The Dog The Sound Will Travel Up
The Mandible To The Ears And Give A Popping
Sound To The Dog."
"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.
lying frosty dahl, oakhill kennels wrote:
Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper wield
the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them
more sharply
Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and
the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist!
Eventually, the dog will give in
but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their
efforts to escaping the ear pinch
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell
instead of your thumb even get a studded collar
and pinch the ear against that
Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so
urgent that resisting your will fades in importance.
CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever Ready
Right Hand, As it catches on, try using the stick
and no ear pinch.
When the dog is digging out to beat the stick
and seems totally reliable without any ear pinch,
you are finished
If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin,
say "No! Hold!"
(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps because
the ear is getting tender, or the dog has decided
it isn't worth it)" lying frosty dahl.
"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
professora gingold.
terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure."
"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.
"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.
handsome happy jackass morrison aka dogman
aka the anonymHOWES tommy sorenson of
sorenson's Retrievers and SHOCK COLLAR
SALES sez:
"I don't know how big you are, kiddo, so this may
not be as easy for you as it is for me, but use
a little "knee action," that is, as the dog goes
charging by you, just give the dog a little bop
with your knee and shin. Yep, really lean into it.
Even knock her over, if you can, but make sure to
make her think twice about rushing past you again -
- which is exactly what you want her to do.
Don't bother with scolding her, she'll get the message.
If it happens again, just REPEAT the knee action.
When she steps on your toes, just pick up your foot
abruptly and nudge her with your knee. Again, no
scolding is necessary here, so you don't have to
worry about her "over-reacting."
I don't think this is necessarily a lack of respect
for you, just a lack of training. That is, she just
needs *more* of it."
"My objective is always to find a way that WORKS.
And if it is DANGEROUS behavior that I'm trying
to modify, behavior than can get the dog KILLED,
I will resort to ANYTHING to save him.
A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G.
Okay. Call me a cruel, inhumane, abusive bastard
if you want to, but it doesn't affect me at all.
When you've saved the lives of as many dogs as I
have, you'll learn that that's the only thing that
really matters. Saving lives and making dogs become
good citizens
At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating
a dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin
does *not* constitute a "beating."
"Swatting a dog on the nose is
always the wrong thing to do."
From: qbt...@v1.arg (Dogman)
Date: 1997/01/24
Subject: Re: Over-Excited Lab
On a cold day in Hell, Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:53:10
Teaching a puppy to stop biting and nipping people is
probably the very easiest thing you will ever do as a dog
trainer. Don't make such a big deal out of it.
It's E-A-S-Y, but it won't be done in just one or
two lessons. You must be C-O-N-S-I-S-T-E-N-T.
And P-A-T-I-E-N-T.
Whenever your puppy bites or nips you (or anyone else
in your family), do any one of the following:
1.) At the same time you say "NO BITE!" in a firm
voice, gently but firmly tap your puppy on its nose
with your index finger.
2.) At the same time you say "NO BITE!" in a firm
voice, gently but firmly grasp your puppy's lower
jaw with your right hand (if you are right handed),
your right thumb stuck down and under her tongue,
your other fingers wrapped under her jaw, and gently
but firmly shake her jaw back and forth a couple of
times.
3.) At the same time you say "NO BITE!" in a firm
voice, gently place a couple of fingers into her
mouth, trying to touch the back of her tongue with
them, initiating a gag reflex.
Immediately after doing any one of the above,
stop playing with her for at least 15-20 minutes
and completely IGNORE her.
Do not even make eye contact!
I promise you, Phil, that if you will be consistent
in the application of the above, your puppy will soon
stop nipping and biting people. Just how soon this
occurs depends upon the puppy, how well you execute
the above, and how C-O-N-S-I-S-T-E-N-T you are.
And no one should be allowed to play with the puppy
who is not capable of doing any of the above. Not
until she has first learned not to nip and bite people.
"At the very FIRST nip, tap your puppy on his nose with
your index finger, sharply, but not very hard, your face in
his face, and say "NO BITE!" in a firm but not loud voice."
"With your index finger, tap the puppy on her nose
firmly, but not harshly, then, at the very same time,
and nose to nose with her, tell your puppy in a firm
but not loud voice, "NO BITE!"
"At the same time you say "NO BITE!" in a firm voice,
gently but firmly tap your puppy on its nose with your
index finger."
BUT NEVER HIT YOUR DOG~!
Swatting a dog on the nose is always the
wrong thing to do.
IMO, the *fastest* way to curb a mouthy puppy's
desire to bite hands (especially if other methods
have failed, because you don't want this habit to
become reinforced by too much success), etc., is
to take advantage of the pup's gag reflex:
Slowly reach over and around the pup's shoulder
(while you're sitting on the floor), coming up
to the pup's mouth from underneath it with your
right hand (that way he can't see your finger or
your hand), and stick your index finger into the
pup's mouth, at the very rear, then down the
pup's throat, and gently place some downward
pressure on the back of the tongue, until he
starts to gag. Use your left arm to hold him
close to you, while you're doing this.
Trust me, it's easier to demonstrate this
technique than to explain it, but it's fail-proof.
He'll quickly put 2 and 2 together.
Biting hands = gag.
--
Handsome Jack Morrison
-------------------
Date: 1999/01/15
Subject: Re: Another mouthy lab
Get this book:
"The Art of Raising A Puppy," by the Monks of New Skete
If you can't find it locally, you can obtain it
through my Web site (see below).
You'll need it for more than just the usual puppy
"mouthing" problems, anyway.
And good luck with your Lab puppy!
--
Dogman
------------------------
From: Tara <taragre...@verizon.net>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 17:58:51 GMT
Subject: Re: good dog training books?
I've personally seen their methods (as applied by
them) NOT work on dogs they themselves have bred.
IMO, their methods actually made the underlying
problems *worse*. In three cases, where they both
bred and trained the dogs, they subsequently washed
their hands of the dogs and suggested euthanasia....
and then promptly tried to talk the owners into taking
another one of their own pups.
<snip>
Since I have serious issues and doubts about the
practices and ethics of the Monks, I obviously
only support the latter two ;-)
Tara
------------------------
From: osi...@deltaville.net (Michael Erskine)
Date: 12 Aug 2004 10:09:05 -0700
Subject: My GSD bit me.
The question:
I have a four year old male GSD. He growls
at me sometimes. When he growls at me he
stares me in the face and lays his ears back.
The New Skete books say that the dog should not be
allowed to do that. They suggest shaking down the
dog by grabing the dog on the sides of his neck and
picking him off his front feet, then giving the dog the
same sort of treatment the dog would give another if
it were challenging him.
Namely getting in the dogs face and letting
the dog know you are the alpha dog.
Well, my dog bit me clearly he felt that I was not
convincing enough or he bit me out of fear.
Anyone got ideas on what to do with this dog that might
help him to decide that he wants to follow and that he
has nothing to fear from me?
----------------------
Borrowed from: "Puppy Raising Tips" from
professional trainers, John and Amy Dahl.
"Around four months many puppies can withstand a
correction. Unfortunately this is the time they start
teething and if their mouth hurts, they may act
generally sensitive. If this is the case, be patient and
wait for all those baby teeth to fall out.
In training, retrievers often respond to physical correction
better than verbal correction. While "NO!" is extremely
useful if puppy is about to bite an electrical cord or steal
food off the table, when you are teaching them something
(like obedience) a sharp jerk on their lead or swat with a
stick gets the message across with less emotion and less
effect on their confidence.
If they drop the dummy and act like their mouth hurts
when they are teething, stop all retrieving and wait for
their mouth to feel better. A correction should be just
severe enough to get the dog to respond.
Repeated weak corrections are very stressful to the dog."
================
"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog
I Do Not Believe There Is A Single Circumstance
Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is Anything But
Destructive," "I don't see why anyone would want
to choke or beat a dog, or how any trainer could
possibly get a good working dog by making them
unhapper, fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying
frosty dahl.
lying frosty dahl sez she doesn't twist:
"None of my posts, prior to or subsequent to
Jerry Howe's attacks, encourage anyone to
twist ears, beat dogs, confront, intimidate,
frighten, or any of the crap he constantly
attributes to me," lying frosty dahl.
lying frosty dahl, oakhill kennels wrote:
Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper wield
the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them
more sharply
lying frosty dahl wrote:
"Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have
a helper wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher,
less tractable dogs may require you to progress to
striking them more sharply.
REPEAT, VARYING HOW HARD YOU HIT THE DOG.
Now you are ready to progress to what most
people think of as force-fetching: the ear pinch.
Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so
urgent that resisting your will fades in importance.
but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to
escaping the ear pinch even get a studded collar and pinch
the ear against that if the dog still does not open its mouth,
get out the shotshell.
Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the
collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist! Eventually,
the dog will give in
With your hand on the collar and ear, say, 'fetch.'
Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the stick.
Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to the dummy.
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell instead of your
thumb; Say 'fetch' while pressing the dummy against its lips
and pinching its ear."
Gotta LOVE koehler. dahl makes
koheler look like St. Francis.
We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL
Perhaps THAT'S HOWE COME she LIES abHOWET it?:
"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A
Dog I Do Not Believe There Is A Single
Circumstance Ever, Where Slapping A
Dog Is Anything But Destructive," dahl.
LUCKY thing CHIN CHUCK absolutely don't
mean slap the goddamned dog, we'd look like
a conspiracy of LIARS and DOG abusers if
CHIN CHUCK DID mean SLAP the dog.
"I don't see why anyone would want to choke or
beat a dog, or how any trainer could possibly get
a good working dog by making them unhapper,
fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying frosty dahl.
DOES THAT SOUND LIKE THE TRUTH?
lying frosty dahl sez she doesn't twist:
"None of my posts, prior to or subsequent to
Jerry Howe's attacks, encourage anyone to
twist ears, beat dogs, confront, intimidate,
frighten, or any of the crap he constantly
attributes to me," lying frosty dahl.
BWEEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA!!!
"On the other extreme, the really hard dogs
we have trained require much more
frequent and heavy application of pressure
(PAIN j.h.) to get the job done,
This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome
Borrowed from: "Puppy Raising Tips" from
professional trainers, John and Amy Dahl.
"Around four months many puppies can withstand a
correction. Unfortunately this is the time they start
teething and if their mouth hurts, they may act
generally sensitive. If this is the case, be patient and
wait for all those baby teeth to fall out.
In training, retrievers often respond to physical correction
better than verbal correction. While "NO!" is extremely
useful if puppy is about to bite an electrical cord or steal
food off the table, when you are teaching them something
(like obedience) a sharp jerk on their lead or swat with a
stick gets the message across with less emotion and less
effect on their confidence.
If they drop the dummy and act like their mouth hurts
when they are teething, stop all retrieving and wait for
their mouth to feel better. A correction should be just
severe enough to get the dog to respond.
Repeated weak corrections are very stressful to the dog."
================
captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK"
Makes A ResoundingSound Distraction: "When
You Chuck The Dog The Sound Will Travel Up
The Mandible To The Ears And Give A Popping
Sound To The Dog."
"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.
"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It A Sharp
Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know Jack Wouldn't
Have Done It If He Thought Solo Couldn't Take It. I Still
Crate Him Because Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My
Cat," Melanie Lee Chang * mch...@lppi.ucsf.edu
Canine Behavioral Genetics Project
University of California, San Francisco
http://psych.ucsf.edu/K9BehavioralGenetics/
"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
professora gingold.
terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure."
"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.
You think a EXXXPERT trainer got to BEAT
a HUNTIN dog to MAKE IT HUNT?
Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies HURT all
their lives like HOWE HOWER dog lovers PREFER to
HURT THEIR DOGS?
"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."
The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her
babies to SAVE THEM from a fate like that,
is COMMENDABLE.
We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...
From: Charlie Wilkes <charlie_wil...@users.easynews.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 17:21:14 GMT
Subject: Re: My GSD bit me.
You need to improve your acting skills. Get a werewolf
suit with blood-drenched fangs and claw gloves and THEN
go after your dog.
Knock the shit out of him and don't be afraid to crack
some ribs. Then yank the mask off and shout "SURPRISE!
IT'S ME!" I guarantee you and your dog will have a new
relationship based on mutual respect.
Keep in mind that the monks of New Skete
were pre-Lon-Chaney.
Charlie
-----------------------
Here's tommy soronsen aka lyindogDUMMY
BEATIN a dog to HOWEsbreak IT to SAVE
IT'S LIFE. But FIRST, a little good koehler
trainin:
Koehler On Correcting The Housebreaking Backslider.
"If the punishment is not severe enough, some of these
"backsliders" will think they're winning and will
continue to mess in the house. An indelible impression
can sometimes be made by giving the dog a hard
spanking of long duration, then leaving him tied by
the mess he's made so you can come back at twenty
minute intervals and punish him again for the same
thing. (Dogs are REALLY stupid. J.H.)
In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this
disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
light spanking that some owners seem to think is
adequate punishment. It will be better for your dog,
as well as the house, if you really pour it on him."
"Housebreaking Problems:
"The Koehler Method of Dog Training"
Howell Book House, 1996"
Occasionally, there is a pup who seems determined to
relieve himself inside the house, regardless of how
often he has the opportunity to go outside. This dog
may require punishment. Make certain he is equipped
with a collar and piece of line so he can't avoid
correction.
When you discover a mess, move in fast, take him to
the place of his error, and hold his head close enough
so that he associates his error with the punishment.
Punish him by spanking him with a light strap or
switch. Either one is better than a folded newspaper.
It is important to your future relationship that you
do not rush at him and start swinging before you get
hold of him.
When he's been spanked, take him outside. Chances
are, if you are careful in your feeding and close
observation, you will not have to do much punishing.
Be consistent in your handling.
To have a pup almost house-broken and then force
him to commit an error by not providing an opportunity
to go outside is very unfair. Careful planning will
make your job easier.
The same general techniques of housebreaking apply
to grown dogs that are inexperienced in the house.
For the grown dog who was reliable in the house and
then backslides, the method of correction differs
somewhat. In this group of "backsliders" we have the
"revenge piddler." This dog protests being alone by
messing on the floor and often in the middle of a bed.
The first step of correction is to confine the dog
closely in a part of the house when you go away, so
that he is constantly reminded of his obligation. The
fact that he once was reliable in the house is proof
that the dog knows right from wrong, and it leaves
you no other course than to punish him sufficiently
to convince him that the satisfaction of his
wrongdoing is not worth the consequences. If the
punishment is not severe enough, some of these
"backsliders" will think they're winning and will
continue to mess in the house.
An indelible impression can sometimes be made
by giving the dog a hard spanking of long duration,
then leaving him tied by the mess he's made so you
can come back at twenty minute intervals and punish
him again for the same thing.
In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this
disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
light spanking that some owners seem to think is
adequate punishment.
It will be better for your dog, as well as the house,
if you really pour it on him.
"Handsome Jack Morrison"
<handsomemorri...@thedetonatorearthlink.net>
wrote in message
news:spb3ivgh7prvq9omh...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:52:18 -0400, "Krishur"
> <kris_br...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Good books huh?
>
> Absolutely. Some are, in fact, classics.
>
> > Which idea was your favorite, the one where they
>> tell you to alpha roll a "dominant" dog,
>
> There's nothing inherently wrong with rolling a dog
> (i.e., it *can* and *does* work in *some* situations).
> Unfortunately, most people either do it incorrectly, do
> it at the wrong time, etc.
>
> > or where they tell you that you didn't hit him hard
> > enough if he doesn't yelp or approaches you within
> > 5 minutes of his punishment?
>
> If physical discipline is deemed necessary (after careful
> evaluation), it's much more cruel not to get it over with
> quickly than it is to do it incrementally and half-
> heartedly, which usually only invites the need for even
> more discipline.
>
> > Maybe you liked when they recommend these
> > beatings for housebreaking accidents, chewing /
> > destructive behavior, stealing, trying to get on
> > your bed at night and dog on dog aggression.
>
> At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating
> a dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin
> does *not* constitute a "beating."
>
> I'm sorry if you don't agree.
>
> And each of those behavior "problems" needs
> to be looked at in its proper context.
>
> A quote from the Monks:
>
> "We repeat, these situations may merit physical
> discipline. Since no book can pretend to analyze
> every individual dog and situation, we feel obligated
> to emphasize from the outset that discipline is never
> an arbitrary training technique to be applied to each
> and every dog for all offenses. We do, however, believe
> that physical and verbal discipline can be an effective
> technique.
>
> The best policy if you experience any of the above
> problems is to consult a qualified trainer or veterinarian
> or evaluation of your individual situation....
>
> "If discipline is decided upon as a training technique,
> it should be the proper technique. We feel we have
> developed several methods that depend less on violent
> physical force than timing, a flair for drama, and the
> element of surprise.
>
> We feel an obligation, as responsible trainers, to map
> out these methods, rather than simply skip the topic
> because it is unpleasant. Dog owners want to know
> what to do."
>
> In other words, physical discipline is reserved for those
> serious, special occasions when other methods have failed.
>
> For example, they do not recommend using physical
> discipline for *routine* housebreaking chores -- only
> on those rare occasions when an already reliably
> housebroken dog is (after careful evaluation) deemed
> to be soiling the house on purpose, backsliding, etc.
>
> I'll give you an actual example. Years ago, an adult dog
> was brought to me as an *incurable* house-soiler. It
> was either get the dog reliably housetrained or the dog
> was going on a one way trip to the pound.
>
> Being the kind, compassionate trainer that I am, I
> was prepared to do whatever it took to get this dog
> house-trained and save his life.
>
> After several weeks of more or less traditional training,
> and to poor result, I brought out the big guns -- physical
> and verbal discipline. Whenever the dog soiled the house
> (no, you don't even have to catch him in the act), I
> immediately (but very calmly) tossed a leash on his collar,
> dragged him to the scene of the crime, and (using a large
> chair as a prop) tethered him to the leg of the chair, with
> his nose about two inches away from the poop. After a
> couple of swats on the rump, some loud vocalizing, and a
> wait of about 20 minutes, I'd release the dog and then
> ignore him for a while. I had to repeat this process *three*
> times, I think -- and the house-soiling miraculously
> stopped. The dog went home to enjoy a long and contented
> life with his original owners, and I got to feel good about
> myself.
> So, yes, the Monk's books are good ones. Even for novices.
> Yup, that's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.
> -- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove
> the detonator to reply via e-mail
"Handsome Jack Morrison"
<handsomemorri...@thedetonatorearthlink.net>
wrote in message
news:a236iv0ngp58gv9jm...@4ax.com...
> On 26 Jul 2003 22:14:29 GMT, dogstar...@aol.com
>(DogStar716) wrote:
> >>> Never mind dogman :)
> >> You too? Some folks just never learn.
>>>> Uh huh :)
>>> One of the signs of mental illness
>>> is to say "Uh huh" a lot.
>> PS: If the "trainer" you were talking about isn't on this
>> list, he (or she) is NOT an approved Koehler trainer, no
>> matter how loud you scream otherwise.
> May I laugh again? LOL! One doesn't need to be
> on a list to use Koehlers methods or teach his methods.
> Let me be among the first (apparently) to tell you that
> not every trainer who uses a leash is a *Koehler* trainer.
> Sheesh.
> This person may call herself a Koehler trainer, but
> if she's hanging 12 week old puppies, she's about
> as far from a Koehler trainer as a dog trainer can
> possibly be.
> Again, this is just your IGNORANCE showing.
> I can call myself a devout Christian, but if I'm not
> adhering to the doctrine, I'm something else.
> >http://www.koehlerdogtraining.com/patoflearn.html
>
> Sorry, the very first sentences make me aware
> that whoever wrote it knows nothing about PR
> based training:
> "Amidst the current (and politically correct) trend
> in Positive Reinforcement Only training systems"
> You cannot use PR only.
Au contraire. Many, many posters to r.p.d.b. (and many
other places as well) *claim* that they use nothing but R.
You know, the PPers.
And they do it quite loudly, too.
Surely you aren't blind (and deaf), as well as ignorant?
Those are hard handicaps to overcome, Dogstar.
And if you knew anything about PR BASED training,
you would realize that. It's not all cookies and babytalk.
There is no stronger supporter of R than Handsome
Jack Morrison, but I also use every behavioral tool
in my bag, including R-, P, and P-, because I know
that even R has its limits.
You'd know that too, if you didn't
have your head in the sand.
> But that seems to be the battle cry of the Koehler-ites.
The Koehlerites have no battle cry.
They have behaviorism on their side, and
that's more than enough.
> I don't need instruction on how to give my dogs
> a proper leash correction as I do not rely on a
> leash to control or teach my dog.
That may or may not be suitable for your needs,
but it's not suitable for the majority of dog owners,
especially since the advent of leash laws.
Besides, after just a few weeks of proper Koehler
training, Koehler dogs likewise are no longer in
need of a leash.
*(THAT'S HOWE COME tommy
SELLS SHOCK COLLARS)
That you apparently don't know that, once again
shows me just how ignorant of anything to do with
Koehler you are.
My last two dogs have been trained offleash right
from the start, using rewards for what I like, and
nothing for what I don't like.
Good for you, and if that level of training is good enough
for you, fine. But it's not good enough for many of the
rest of us.
> Again, I'm not saying Koehler doesn't work.
I really have no idea what you're saying anymore, because
you apparently know so damn little about Koehler and
behavioral principles in general that it's hard to have an
informed discussion with you.
PS: It boggles my mind at how stupid you must be to
keep denying that those certain harsh methods are only
for LAST RESORT situations, intended only to SAVE
A DOG'S LIFE, even after I've repeatedly given you
direct *quotes* from Koehler's book saying just that.
It's like you don't even care how stupid people think
you are, or how devious you are, etc. That can't help
your cause any.
You'd think that you'd at least want to
*appear* to be honest, even if you're not. -
- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove the detonator
to reply via e-mail
--------------
NO PROBLEMO tommy!
Oh, an THANKS for all the ADVICE!
Here, permit The Amazing Puppy Wizard to give
you a hand with that tricky little pin, tommy...
There. GOT IT! NHOWE HERE, HOWELD THIS, tommy.
That's FIXED. ENJOY!
Adios, tommy...
NHOWE START WALKIN THE WALK.
Oh, but don't trip over the puppy, tommy!
LIKE THIS:
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAau...@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?
> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.
> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST
Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have,
> Solo joined in and then lunged to the end of the
> leash.
Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
---------------
Sometimes my "voice of god" startles human
and dog, especially when the human didn't
see the inappropriate behaviour. --Matt.
Rocky's a Dog.
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92C1EC10BFE7au...@130.133.1.4...
Rosa Palmén wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> Anybody else got bilingual dogs?
Long ago my Hebrew was pretty good - but now I
only use "Chutza"(throat clearing 'ch') - "Out" when
it's reallyreally important that my dogs get away from
something.
"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It A Sharp
Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know Jack Wouldn't
Have Done It If He Thought Solo Couldn't Take It. I Still
Crate Him Because Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My
Cat," Melanie Lee Chang * mch...@lppi.ucsf.edu
Canine Behavioral Genetics Project
University of California, San Francisco
http://psych.ucsf.edu/K9BehavioralGenetics/
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day
Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> One of the things that frustrates me the most about
> agility is that people seem to think that ALL dogs
> are fragile, shrinking flowers who cannot be
> corrected in any way.
Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take
correction so much to heart -- I'll try something
different. Right now, he's just getting the confidence
to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"I crate Rocky, even though he's 8.5 years old, but only
when I'm gone during summertime days - maybe an
hour at the most. (Other than hot days, my dogs are
always with me.)
While Friday has been totally reliable unsupervised from the
day I got him from a rescue, Rocky has not. Rocky will go
looking for food even in areas where there's no possibility of
food.
The good thing is that he likes his crate, runs for
it when I ask, and gets food when he's in it.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAAA!!!
From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14
Bioso...@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<37D698CF.405B0...@bellsouth.net>:
> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that
> you are suggesting that the people knee the dog in
> the chest. If that's what you meant, just say it, instead
> of beating around the bush to avoid criticism from
> people like me. That kind of crap has got to stop, and
> that's why I'm here, to help wean you guys off of the
> abuse and into the proper methods of dealing with
> behavior problems.
Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.
Why did you blow it?
--Matt
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????
Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking
> was to run faster than my dad and NOT GET
> CAUGHT. so what does that say?
I learned to put a comic book down the back of my
pants. And sometimes my parents pretended not to
notice. In retrospect, that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918au...@130.133.1.4...
> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training
> > MATTerial.
> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
Oh? You mean LIKE THIS, matty?:
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 15 May 2005 16:03:05 GMT
Subject: Re: What does "bupkis" really mean
shelly said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> you've just described elliott. i don't think Lucy would
> have had a clue what to do with him, though. while he's
> easy and forgiving in terms of handling, i think his prey
> drive and dog aggression would've had her in tears.
Hmm. You've got a point. Rocky is dog-dominant, a
surprise to almost everyone - some of whom know him
very well. I wonder how well Lucy reads dog? If she
can't, she'd get some ugly surprises.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWEEEAAAHAHAHAHHHAHAAA!!!
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 24 Mar 2005 17:16:47
Subject: Re: help with identifing a dog breed
A mature dog comfortable in its surroundings often
won't need to physically assert its dominance.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 22 Dec 2004 16:58:38 GMT
A Useful Dog
... Rocky, OTOH, I crate when a new dog is introduced -
while he's quick to back off in times of trouble, he's
fairly dominant. -- --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAHAAAA!!!
"dallygirl" <kwickw...@hotmail.com> said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> choke chains are outdated and barbaric in many
> cases causing more harm than good.
Back at you with flat buckle collars. These are an
incredibly abused training tool, what with the number
of handlers I see pulling back and jerking on the leash
with both hands.
It's a good thing that most of us are here because of
dogs' well-being and not an agenda.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote
For reasons I'll only explain privately, I've gone no
archive, and it's a shame. Once in a while, while
looking for something else, I'll run into an old post
of mine. What an idiotic response! Whoops.
BWEEEAAAHAHAAAHAAHAAA!~!~!
THAT'S sumpthin to be PR-HOWED abHOWET, eh matty?
"The day may come when the rest of the animal creation
may acquire those rights
which never could have been withholden from them
but by the hand of tyranny.
The question is not can they REASON,
nor can they TALK,
but can they SUFFER?" -
- Jeremy Bentham
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised
for the good of its victims,
may be the most oppressive.
Those who torment us for our own good
will torment us without end,
for they do so with the approval of
their own conscience." -
- C.S. Lewis.
"Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny",
Aeschylus (525BC-456BC),
Agamemnon.
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress
can be judged by the way
its animals are treated." ~ Mohandas
Gandhi -- Adapted with permission from his FREE
copy of The Puppy Wizard's FREE Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual. <}TPW ; ~ ) >
Force training JERRYIZES dogs...
and GETS THEM DEAD.
All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer
"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.
"If you've got them by the balls
their hearts and minds
will follow,"
John Wayne.
ANY QUESTIONS, DUMMIES?
,-._,-,
V)"(V
(_o_) Have a great day!
/ V)
(l l l) Your Puppy Wizard. <{YPW} ; ~ } >
oo-oo
I remain respectfully, humbly yours,
Jerry Howe,
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
G-R-A-N-D
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey
SpHOWES And Horsey Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
HOWE MAY I SERVE YOU?
Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Foren...@hotmail.com
On Jul 15, 11:35 am, "Oxymel of Squill"
<sash...@lineone.net> wrote:
> <woofy...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1183974260....@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > My brother's Yorkshire Terrier has bitten me three
> > times in the past two months and I've had enough of
> > it. I've done everything possible to placate it, and
> > all the talk about curing with kindness is rubbish.
> well.... how does an adult dog
> deal with a noisome puppy?
They usually get up and leave.
> Dogs are very sociable characters
INDEEDY.
Here's ALL the INFORMATION you need to make
your dog SOCIABLE GENTLE PROTECTIVE and HAPPY:
> with a strict pecking order (do dogs actually peck,
Only UNSOCIABLE dogs do that, Squill. AGGRESSION
is LEARNED behavior, Squill. They LEARN that from
their HUMAN ABUSERS:
Dr. Fetko's Philosophy (http://www.drdog.com)
"Dogs Are Like Wet Cement - Whatever Touches Them
Makes A Lasting Impression. So Please Make Every
Touch Loving."
From The Annals Of Human And Animal Behavior
Forensic Sciences
Research Laboratory
Dr. Fetko: "In Dog Training,
Jerk Is A Noun, Not A Verb."
You're gonna love this:
Some words from Dr. Fetko:
"In dog training, Jerk is a noun, not a verb."
We're repeatedly told that dog training requires jerking the
dog's chain choke - or even pinch - collar and to lift and
shake them by the scruff of their necks and pin them on their
backs. I've trained dogs (and many other species) all over the
world for decades and was taught to use those methods nearly
40 years ago. (That's how up-to-date they are!) But those
methods are NOT necessary, nor as effective or quick as
gentler methods. I haven't jerked a collar in 20 years! All
good training is based upon trust and respect; how does a
social mammal trust or respect someone who jerks, hangs or
pins it?"
The following quotes are from Dr. Dennis
Fetko, noted veterinary behaviorist:
ABUSE
While testifying at a California State Senate Hearing, I was
asked to define abuse. One I offered: Unnecessary physical or
psychological force in excess of what is required to achieve
the goal. This, and others I stated, were accepted by the
entire Hearing panel.
I have disabled clients and I've known severe physical
compromise. If one can train dogs successfully without jerking
collars, pinning, hanging or scruffing, then doing so is, by
definition, abuse. Why pay someone to abuse your dog?
Besides, must you really pay for that level of input? Like
you'd never have thought of that on your own!
When 88% of the adult dogs I'm paid to train have already
been professionally trained, something's wrong. You pay
good money for professional advice; get it.
LEGAL WORK
Formerly San Diego's Dispute Resolutions Officer, I've
qualified in criminal and civil courts representing both
plaintiffs and defendants as an expert in animal training and
behavior, abuse, aggression, "collecting" and animal nuisances
dozens of times for many years. I'm in legal demand because,
with my background and extensive hands-on experience, my
testimony is very difficult to rebut. Contact me if you, your
attorney or someone you know is ever involved in a legal
case involving animals."
And Jerry also HAS similar expert witness testimony
experience, and Jerry WILL TESTIFY for FREE. Call
Jerry toll free 1-888-WITSEND.
Dr. Fetko's TRAINING METHODS:
My methods are practical, gentle and successful because
working with animals is not academic or secondary to me, it's
WHAT I DO! Like you, I hear and read strange things about
animals, training and behavior. But having done it full time
for many years, I know what works.
Methods have effects no one talks about. I say: "Jerk is a
noun, not a verb" and "Nothing with a pulse belongs on a
chain" because I haven't jerked collars or used chains in
decades - and I do this every day, sometimes with very
unfriendly dogs! Have you ever been to Sea World? Who jerks
Shamu?
If we can train huge feral predators to a high level of
safe performance without active physical reprimands,
HOW DARE WE tell you to jerk your dog's neck?!
Ever notice that people with "bad memories" know all the words
to dozens of songs? That's because music and singing are FUN!
A fun, playful, relaxed attitude is very conducive to
learning. Why do we remember the alphabet forever but forget
the times table immediately after the exam? Because we SANG,
PLAYED and ACTED OUT the alphabet! It was FUN and GAMES!
Then why make dog training hard, negative work for your dog?
Our own experience (and much research) clearly demonstrates
that a harsh approach inhibits learning and retards memory,
yet many people jerk lessons into dogs and drill them until
they rebel. WHY? (sounds just like Jerry so far...)
Anyone who doesn't know the difference between a boss and a
bully shouldn't touch anything with a pulse. We've all had bad
experiences with bullies; why pay someone to bully your dog
and, even worse, make you do so? (sounds a little light
compared to Jerry... Jerry's gonna put you outta business.)
"FETKOISMS"
You'll read phrases my clients and listeners call "Fetkoisms"
scattered throughout this site. Periodically I'll explain what
they mean and how they evolved. The point is that everything
you see here is based upon vast hands-on experience and hard
science.
"In dog training, Jerk is a noun, not a verb."
We're repeatedly told that dog training requires jerking the
dog's chain choke - or even pinch - collar and to lift and
shake them by the scruff of their necks and pin them on their
backs. I've trained dogs (and many other species) all over the
world for decades and was taught to use those methods nearly
40 years ago. (That's how up-to-date they are!)
But those methods are NOT necessary, nor as effective
or quick as gentler methods. I haven't jerked a collar in
20 years!
All good training is based upon trust and respect;
how does a social mammal trust or respect someone
who jerks, hangs or pins it?
If you take a dog through training and it's much better on
lead than off it, WHY? It's the same you, the same dog and the
same command; why is it better on lead than loose? The main
reason is that most training teaches the dog to fear the
equipment, not respect the handler.
"Without the equipment, you can't do bad things to me - so
leave a note!"
The following is from an article in
'doggy door to canine behavior':
"But now, with the puppy, he growls worse than he ever did at
Rio and is constantly showing his teeth, growling and snarling
(only has tried to nip once or twice and has been severely
scolded - picked up by the scruff, stared into his eyes, shook
him, pinned him down to the ground and growled at him) No
matter what we do, he will not quit growling at this poor
puppy."
And their "experts" reply:
It is important that you do not allow your emotions to
intervene with Riot's disobedience. No more scruff shakes,
harsh words, etc. Just say what you mean and then expect him
to do it. If he doesn't comply - then "help" him do it.
That's scruff shake, boss. I've got lots moore for ya:
>From The Desk Of The Thugs At:
Dog Owner's Guide
8461 Denallen Dr.
Cincinnati, OH 45255
"You must never permit him to growl or snap. If he does, a
severe scruff shake is necessary, followed by no attention
from you for 10 to 15 minutes.
The scruff is the loose skin around the dog's neck. If
your pet growls or snaps and you are not afraid to
handle him, grab him firmly by the scruff with both
hands, stare him in the eyes, and shake him.
Then put him in his crate for 15-20 minutes and ignore him."
> > I think I'd phrase it something like "if the puppy is
> > very persistant, it can be appropriate to take hold
> > of the loose skin at the back of the neck and give a
> > slight shake to the *skin*".
Or moore like this as taught by one of our university
"behaviorists":
"The scruff shake is another way of correcting the more
persistent aggressive pet. Look into the dog's eyes with a
hard, direct stare, while holding its two cheeks in your
hands.
Elevate and shake the puppy (soft at first ... then a
little harder each time the correction must be repeated.)
Do not let go or break eye contact until the dog diverts
his gaze."
And then the dirtbag has the nerve to continue:
"Puppyhood is an important developmental period.
During this state the fragile little critter is basically
innocent."
And then the dirtbag's arrogant enough to sign:
*Joan M. Locher holds a MS. in Biology and is certified in
vocational dog training and canine behavior counseling. Ms.
Locher is a member of the Board of Directors of the National
Association of Obedience Instructors. Her business, Pets
Control, specializes in canine training programs and problem
behavior counseling."
We'll see HOWE long that lasts... once I get ahold of the
bunch of our "dog training experts" and "rescues" like I did
rpdb... BWWWWAHAHAHAAAAA!!!! You're outta business, folks... Get a
new career.
> But YES - this is definitely what I meant.
INDEED. You're a cowardly, lying, dog abusing Thug, boss. You
KILL dogs for a living because you don't know HOWE to handle
and train them. See the thread "interested in hearing."
> > Janet's not talking about actually shaking the puppy,
> > which I think we ALL agree is abusive.
I think you've all been proven dog abuing Thugs and LIARS.
That's what I think, only based on your own QUOTED words.
> Of course.
But of course.
> Janet Boss
And we'll finish with some moore
dog abuse from our universities:
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Pamela Mueller, PhD phone 607-255-2884
328 Morrison Hall *
Department of Animal Science FAX 607-255-9829
Cornell University email p...@cornell.edu
Ithaca, NY 14853
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
I used a simple negative conditioning (call it punishment)
approach: every time I heard the dog rustling in the litter
box, or if he came running to me so proud with cat litter in
his beard,
I used vocal reprimands (aka loud yelling and screaming)
plus scruff shake followed by isolation in crate.
It only took 3 such episodes to eliminate
the unwanted behavior of litter box scavanging.
And another Thug:
"The second is NO BITE in a loud authoritative tone.
This may be accompanied by a scruff shake (hands on
either side of the head, bring front feet only off ground,
and give a brisk shake).
Ignore again.
The third is to fold the pup's lips in over her teeth as
she mouths you so that she bites herself and learns
that it hurts.
The fourth is, if the pup is really hysterical, crate her
for 15 minutes until she calms down. Do not yell at
the puppy when you do this, because crating is NOT
a punishment.
Use it as a time out for both of you.
Be consistent. React every single time the pup puts her
teeth on you. The first week react when it hurts, the second
week, when it hurts a bit, the third, every time she puts her
mouth on you at all, even if she is gentle.
She will soon get the idea that humans are very fragile,
and that you have to be very careful with them!
Remember that you are going to have to repeat this
about a hundred times to have it sink in, so be patient
and work it-you will be making progress even if you
can't readily see it."
Cathryn Lundberg,
9760 Arrow Route,
Rancho Cucamonga,
California 91730
email cath...@pyrealm.com.
BWEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!
Your pal, Jerry "The PHONY," Howe. j;~}
The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
-----------------
> (do dogs actually peck, I hear you ask?).
Perhaps that's just a little tinnitus?
Or maybe it's your pea sized brain rollin
abHOWET in your empty skull, Squill?
And you're gonna tell us the answers to what
the voices in your head are askin, Squill??
> Dog is probably trying to put you back in your place
No, the dog BITES her on accHOWENTA HE'S AFRAID of her
on accHOWENTA she's been offering BRIBES to not bite her:
"Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVER LEARNING THEORY
model involves the USE OF PUNISHMENT. Of curse,
Skinner has never to my knowledge, demonstrated
HOWE we escape the phenomenon that an expected
reward not received is experienced as a punishment
and can produce extensive and persistent aggression
(Azrin et al, 1966)."
> because you have given it reason to suppose
> it is of higher status than you are.
That's ABSURD. IF she was suppHOWESED [by the dog]
to be of "higher status", then the dog would RESPECT
her suppHOWESED "AUTHORITY" and SUBMIT, wouldn't he.
> If there's eating going on for example,
> make sure you eat first and dog eats later.
That's ABSURD.
> I certainly wouldn't placate
> (reward) unpleasant behaviour.
Of curse not. You'd do the SOCIABLE thing
and ATTACK IT for BEIN AFRAID <{}: ~ ) >
Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last Student Demonstrated At
UofOH, That Rehabilitation Of Hyperactive Dogs Can
Easily And Readily Be Done Using TLC. Tender Loving
Care Is At The Root Of The Scientific Management Of
Doggys. <{) ; ~ ) >
"...all the highest nervous activity, as it manifests
itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a continual
change of these three fundamental processes --excitation,
inhibition and disinhibition," Ivan P. Pavlov
"Postitive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement. IOW,
emotions, not outside rewards, are what
reinforces any behavior," Ivan Pavlov.
"All animals learn best through play." -- Konrad Lorenz
"It is NO WONDER that the marked changes in
deviant behavior of children can be achieved
through brief, simple educative routines with
their mothers which modify the mother's social
behaviors shaping the child (Whaler, 1966). Some
clinics have reported ELIMINATION ofthe need for
child THERAPY through changing the clinical emphasis
from clinical to parental HANDLING of the child
(Szrynski 1965).
A large number of cases improved sufficiently after
preliminary contact with parents that NO treatment
of children was required, and almost ALL cases
SHOWE a remarkably shortened period for therapy.
Quite severe cases of anorexia nervosa have been
treated in own to five months by simply REPLACING
the parents temporarily with EFFUSIVELY LOVING
SUBSTITUTES (Groen, 1966)."
-------------
> Dogs don't mind being at the
> bottom of the status pyramid,
There AIN'T NO SUCH THING as STATUS or ALPHA in
the commonly accepted sense of the term. So called
ALPHA dogs are THE MOST AFRAID, other WIZE they
WOULDN'T NEED to "assert" themselves like professional
DOG TRAINERS prefer to do to innocent defenseless
dumb critters.
Canis55 wrote:
This is not objective scientific thinking. It's subjective
animal psychology. It's open to interpretation. Dogs are not
capable of thinking in terms of rank and status. They each
act individually on their own impulses and emotions without
thought for any structural changes in a supposed pack hierarchy.
I know it must be very empowering for you to show off your erudition.
Just as I presume it must feel empowering for you to act dominant
towards the dogs you train. (BTW, dominance is actually a secondary
sexual behavior, which is totally irrelevant
to nature's true purpose for creating the pack instinct--dogs
and wolves form packs in order to successfully hunt large prey.
Their cousins, foxes and coyotes, don't hunt large prey, so
they don't live in packs.) Instead of empowering yourself by
acting dominant to a lesser creature, why not try--just as a
scientific experiment--to empower a dog by opening yourself
up to his real, true, and natural instincts; particularly the instinct
to chase things and bite them.
When you train a dog this way, you will be amazed at how eager,
instant, and willing his obedience becomes. I used to be a
dominance trainer--alpha rollovers, staring contests, leash
corrections, etc.--but found these techniques actually inhibit
a dog's full potential for obedience.
The Pack Instinct is an instinct of group cooperation,
not internal power struggles. Once you realize this,
the need to act dominant--or sexually aggressive--towards
the dog disappears. You seem fairly intelligent.
I hope you can figure this out.
--------------
> what upsets them is others getting out of line.
No, what UPSETS them is imbecile alphalpha / status
CON-TROLL freaks ASSERTING their "ALPHA DUMINANCE"
aka their own pathological FEAR on them and MAKIN
THEM INSANE and causing them to ATTACK.
> As for the immediate problem,
> when it next being nasty
The little dog AIN'T bein NASTY he's BEIN AFRAID.
> roll it over onto his back,
To TEACH IT to be sociable?
> quite forcefully,
She'll PROBABLY GET BIT JUST LIKE HOWE
cesar millan frequently does when he's
"TRAINING" fearful dogs not to ATTACK
their ABUSERS.
> as though you mean it,
I find it difficult to believe that YOU
could be so ignorameHOWES as to actually
believe in or mean what you're sayin, Squill.
> and hold it there, show you're stronger than it is
The little dog only weighs five pounds aka 2kg.
You don't have to be a physicist to realize she
IS STRONGER than IT and THAT'S HOWE COME he's
AFRAID of and BITES her.
> and that you mean to have your own way.
So, this IS "all abHOWET ME", ain't it, Squill.
> That puts him in a submissive position
AND THAT'S WHEN, and HOWE COME, HE ATTACKS.
> which will transfer to attitude.
That's INSANE.
> Then have a good snarl, bare your
> teeth and go to bite his throat.
BWEEEAAAAHAAAHAAA!!!
Perhaps she'd have better LUCK
if she was to HUMP HIS LEG?
> I don't recommend actually biting as this
> can result in a mouthful of nasty hair,
Well then you got no balls, Squill. If you can't
follow through with your TRAINING METHOD because
you're AFRAID of a little HAIR in your beak, HOWE
then, do you suppHOWES the dog is gonna RESPECT you?
> but expect him to squeal or display some
> other form of gesture of submission.
Ahhhh, like ATTACKING her.
> That's what adult dogs do,
No it AIN'T. That's what PSYCHOTIC adult dogs do.
They LEARN that behavior from their HUMAN ABUSERS.
> go for the throat and accept the submission signal.
That technique works better on humans than dogs, Squill.
Humans have the intellectual capacity to project their
thoughts into the future and quickly realize that if
they SUBMIT to their FEARS they'll get what they want
from their ABUSERS as in The Stockholm Syndrom.
Animals, HOWEver, DO NOT have that capacity
and instead of SUBMITTING like HUMAN COWARDS,
they FIGHT. It's an UNTHINKING REFLEX.
> Once should be enough,
Usually with humans it is, till you turn
your back on them if they're not fully
subordinated by fear force and intimidation
and withHOWELDING of "rewards" and necessary
resources as in The Stockholm Syndrome.
> but repeat if necessary
> cheers
Subject: Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD):
A very real condition
By Dr. Abraham Twerski, M.D.
http://www.jewishworldreview.com |
It is rather strange that a condition which should
have easily been identified on the basis of common
sense was not recognized by the psychiatric profession
until relatively recently.
The term Post Traumatic Stress Disorder did not
appear in the American Psychiatric Association
manual until 1980. The reason this is important
is because it indicates an attitude that can have
bearing on recognizing the problem and instituting
proper treatment.
After World War I, soldiers who showed symptoms
of anxiety, irritability, nightmares and inability to cope
with life were considered to have "a bad state of nerves"
which was termed "shell shock."
It was thought that they were cowards who
wished to evade combat. They were subject
to shame and threatened with court-martial.
It wasn't until 1941 that the first clinical study
entitled The Traumatic Neuroses of War
was published.
The author, Dr. Kardiner, pointed out that war
neurosis was considered by many physicians
to be a "hysterical neurosis," and that this term
led people to think that the patient was weak
willed, malingering and trying to get something
for nothing.
After World War II, a more enlightened attitude
developed, with the realization that prolonged
combat could break even the strongest soldier,
and that the psychiatric casualties of war were
as real and as inevitable as gunshot and shrapnel
wounds. It was not until the Vietnam war that the
condition of "traumatic neurosis" was legitimized.
The resistance to recognizing that trauma can have
long-term psychological effects still persists. Although
there is sympathy for those who were victims of
catastrophic trauma such as an earthquake, tornado
or terrorist attack, there is a less positive attitude
toward people who sustained personal trauma.
As a result, people who have suffered personal
trauma are hesitant to seek help for their problems.
They may do their utmost to cope and may actually
function quite well, but the unresolved residuals of
the trauma may cause emergence of symptoms at
any time.
Shame and guilt may result in the memory
of the trauma being buried in the subconscious
mind, beyond one's awareness.
Children who suffered abuse or molestation may
have difficulties in school performance and socialization.
A variety of pedagogic and psychological techniques
may be used to help them, but as long as the trauma
remains a secret and unattended, they are not likely
to succeed.
The emotional aftermath of childhood trauma may
cause serious disturbances in marriage and in parenting.
People seeking psychological help may not even
recall traumatic events of childhood. These
must be skillfully elicited and dealt with.
Young children are extremely impressionable, and
childhood trauma may have a much greater impact
than similar trauma in adulthood.
After World War II, some psychiatrists tried to treat
the combat neurosis by administering sodium amytal
("truth serum"). Under the effect of this drug, some
patients were able to recall and describe the trauma.
However, mere recollection did little to relieve their
symptoms. What is necessary is an understanding
and integration of the experience into consciousness.
One must become aware of the emotions incident
to the trauma, how they have caused the memory
to be walled off and how they are affecting one's
current behavior.
Symptoms of PTSD can occur anywhere from days
to years after the trauma. Their effect on a person's
functioning may range anywhere from minimal to
totally disabling.
The primary symptoms fall into three categories:
Hyperalertness, Intrusions and Suppression.
Hyperalertness means that the person is constantly
on guard, as if danger is lurking and may occur at
any moment. He is easily startled by noises or by
any unexpected movement. The ring of an alarm
clock or someone entering the door without knocking
may trigger a reaction.
The mind may perceive these as a threat, and the
body may respond with the features of the "fight or
flight" reaction. A person with hyperalertness may
find it impossible to relax. He may have difficulty in
falling asleep and may awaken several times during
the night, with or without nightmares.
Sleep deprivation may result in poor concentration,
impaired memory and moodiness.
People who live with expectation of danger may
actually precipitate some mishap. The tension
and suspense that something terrible is going
to happen may be so intolerable that they do
something "to get it over with."
They may start a business venture and do something
to make it fail. They may have a good relationship and
act in a manner that will make the other person reject
them. They may be more prone to accidents. Each
failure or accident may reinforce their feeling that the
world is stacked against them.
The consequences of their anxiety breeds more
anxiety in a vicious cycle that is reminiscent of
the words of Job, "I felt great anxiety, and what
I feared would happen did happen to me" (Job 3:25).
A person should experience joy in life. People with
morbid expectations may be unable to accept feeling
joy. They may fear that if they enjoy something they
may lose it.
One young mother with PTSD said that she dreads
walking over to the baby's crib for fear that she would
not find the child alive.
"I don't feel I deserve to have such a beautiful baby."
There was no logic to this fear. It was a symptom of
her expecting something terrible to happen. Parents
with PTSD who have morbid expectations may be so
overprotective of their children that they cause them
to become hyperalert and anxious and stifle their growth.
Intrusion means that the traumatic incident keeps
coming back and intruding into their awareness.
Any one of many things that is in any way reminiscent
of the traumatic incident may cause the person to feel
he is reliving it.
This is called a "flashback." In order to avoid flashbacks
the person may restrict his activities to avoid something
that may trigger one. The person may avoid reading a
newspaper, a book, or meeting people who may in some
way trigger a flashback. He may become isolated and
socially withdrawn. For example, some Holocaust
survivors may avoid reading anything referring to
the Holocaust, or even meeting other survivors for
fear of experiencing a flashback of terror.
Night terrors in the way of dreams are intrusive.
People who have experienced a personal assault
at night may not leave their homes at night. A child
who leaves the home at night may trigger an intrusive
thought, and they may forbid their children to go out at
night.
Suppression refers to keeping the thought out of
awareness. Because it is a subconscious process
it should more correctly be referred to as "repression."
It is similar to the bodily defense of fainting upon
an acute pain so that the pain cannot be felt. Some
people describe the experience of a trauma as
though it was not happening to them.
This repression can occur both at the moment of
the trauma or at any time later. Something which
is too painful to realize may be banished from
awareness.
Clinically, this is especially important in cases of child
molestation. The memory of the experience may be so
laden with the negative feelings of fear, shame and guilt,
that the person may not recall it. Nevertheless, the
memory exists in the subconscious mind, from where
the noxious feelings of fear, shame and guilt associated
with the incident continue to exert their effect.
The person may be depressed and/or have
problems ranging from low self-esteem to
loathing oneself, without a clue as to why one
feels that way.
She may employ any of the coping tactics described
in my book Life's Too Short. Difficulties in interpersonal
relationships and disturbances of marriage may be the
result of such incidents.
Because the causative trauma is not recalled, the
person may attribute these difficulties to a variety
of other causes, none of which are true.
Even in therapy, the focus may be on resolving
these other causes, which does nothing to alleviate
the problem because the real cause is not addressed.
Some people may recall a traumatic incident and
even describe it, but the memory is devoid of
emotion and meaning.
Allowing oneself to think about the memory might
bring back the painful feelings one wishes to avoid.
Rape is one of the most devastating traumas a human
being can experience. Proper management of the acute
trauma may help forestall severe PTSD, but support and
therapy may be necessary for a longer time.
A man who had been mugged at night developed
a fear of night. He took a job where he worked
from 11PM to 8 AM, because that enabled him to
stay awake all night. He was frightened of being
defenseless when asleep.
The feeling of loss of control that is characteristic of
trauma may result in strange ways of trying to gain control.
Some people may develop superstitions or magical
thinking. Some people may say that they had
premonitions of a disaster and that they have
omens about what may happen.
Some may convince themselves that they brought the
trauma onto themselves, and although this may cause
them to feel guilty, the idea of "I caused it" can mean
"because I made it happen, I can make it not happen."
Ironically, the painful feeling of guilt may provide a
modicum of relief because it may give them a sense
of control. This may also explain recurrent nightmares.
The two symptoms, intrusion and suppression, have
opposite effects. Intrusion tries to bring the trauma
into awareness, and suppression tries to keep it out
of awareness. The person with PTSD is caught in
the middle, vacillating between states of intense
emotion and no feeling at all. This why the person
may be unstable and unpredictable, alternating
between impulsive behavior and no action at all.
With so many possible symptoms, mood alternation and
unpredictable behavior, the person with PTSD may be
erroneously diagnosed and treatment may be ineffective.
It is, therefore, important to be aware of PTSD, to
prevent it when possible, to recognize it early, and
to institute proper treatment.
-------------------
Abraham J. Twerski, M.D. is a psychiatrist
and ordained rabbi. He is the founder of the Gateway
Rehabilitation Center in Pittsburgh, a leading center for
addiction treatment. An Associate Professor of Psychiatry at
the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, he is a
prolific author, with some 30 books to his credit. He has
recently launched a new 12 step program for self esteem
development www.12steps2selfesteem.com
=======================
Tree hugger forever
>
> - Show quoted text -
The easy way to teach a dog whos in charge is to begin rubbing the
dog, then gently put hand behind its neck and push it onto the floor
keeping your hand on its neck gently but firmly hold it down on the
floor and say down keep it positioned on the floor with its belly
facing up while holding its neck. Then begin to rub its paws, slowly
let go of its neck while saying DOWN if it tries to get up put your
hand back on its neck by the throat without pushing on the throat.
Continue to say DOWN firmly and repeatly rub its paws. In the future,
when you want to show dominance tell it to GET DOWN and expect it to
roll over on its back, if it doesnt. repeat holding it down gently by
the neck on the floor untill it gives in. Always give praise when it
obeys. The belly up shows its being submissive to you. give lots
of love and yourl be rewarded.
TheSincerelyIncrediblyFreakinInsanelySimplyAmazingGrandPuppyChildPussyBirdyGoatFerettAndHorseyWizard
"Tree hugger forever" <vlynn...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1185824906.4...@l70g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 9, 10:45 am, woofy...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>
>> My brother's Yorkshire Terrier has bitten me three
>> times in the past two months and I've had enough of
>> it. I've done everything possible to placate it, and
>> all the talk about curing with kindness is rubbish.
INDEEDY~!
>> We both live at home with our parents. I'm not
>> the least bit nervous or dogs, we had one before,
>> but this one is just evil. I've tried everything but
>> it obviously hates me for some reason although
>> it has bitten my Mum at least once. I need some
>> positive advice. I don't particularly want to inflict
>> pain on it but it must learn who is mistress, so
>> when all else fails...- As he refuses to get rid of it
>> I want to, need to break its spirit. What can I do
>> to make a dog fear me, I mean really fear me.
Of curse!
>> I don't mind beating it but don't want it to
>> turn ferocious. I want it to quiver in fear
Then she should read her koehler books.
> The easy way to teach a dog whos in charge
> is to begin rubbing the dog, then gently put
> hand behind its neck and push it onto the floor
> keeping your hand on its neck gently but firmly
> hold it down on the floor and say down keep it
> positioned on the floor with its belly facing up
> while holding its neck.
You sound like them old show ring biddys
who coddle their dogs, tree hugger forever.
> Then begin to rub its paws, slowly let go of
> its neck while saying DOWN if it tries to get
> up put your hand back on its neck by the throat
> without pushing on the throat.
Wherever did you get such nonesense? Have
you been watch the dog wheeesperer on T.V.?
THAT'S that kinda IDIOCY that gets him bit
repeatedly.
> Continue to say DOWN firmly and repeatly
> rub its paws. In the future, when you want
> to show dominance tell it to GET DOWN
> and expect it to roll over on its back, if it
> doesnt. repeat holding it down gently by
> the neck on the floor untill it gives in.
If the dog DON'T RESPOND to his trainin
then PERHAPS you should GIVE UP on
THAT "training technique" an DO SUMPTHIN
EFFECTIVE, tree hugger forever.
> Always give praise when it obeys.
The dog will think you're a PUSSY, tree hugger forever.
> The belly up shows its being submissive to you.
You mean AFRAID.
> give lots of love and yourl be rewarded.
BWEEEAAAAHAAAHAAA!
Here's HOWE the EXXXPERTS do it, tree hugger forever:
"The Koehler Method of Dog Training (1962). New York:Howell Book Book
House(p. 52-53)." Hanging"First, the trainer makes certain that
the collar
and leash are more than adequate for any jerk or strain that the dog's most
frantic actions could cause.
Then he startsto work the dog deliberately and fairly
to the point where the dog makes hisgrab. Before the
teeth have reached their target, the dog, weight permitting,
is jerked from the ground.
As in coping with some of the afore-mentioned problems
the dog is suspended in mid-air.However, to let the biting
dog recover his footing while he still had the strength
to renew the attack would be cruelty.
The only justifiable course is to hold him suspended until
he has neither the strength nor inclination to renew the fight.
When finally it is obvious that he is physically incapable
of expressing his resentment and is lowered to the ground,
he will probably stagger loop-legged for a few steps, vomit
once or twice, and roll over on his side.
The sight of a dog lying, thick-tongued,
on his side, is not pleasant, but do not
let it alarm you
THE REAL "HOOD"
"If your dog is a real "hood" who would
regard the foregoing types of protest as
"kid stuff" and would express his
resentment of your efforts by biting,
your problem is difficult -- and pressing.
"Professional trainers often get these
extreme problems. Nearly always the
"protest biter" is the handiwork of a
person who, by avoiding situations that
the dog might resent, has nurtured the
seeds of rebellion and then cultivated
the resultant growth with under correction.
When these people reap their inevitable
and oftentimes painful harvest, they are
ready to avail themselves of "the cruel
trainer" whose advice they may have
once rejected because it was incompatible
with the sugary droolings of mealy-mouthed
columnists, breed-ring biddies, and dog
psychologists who, by the broken skins and
broken hearts their misinformation causes,
can be proven guilty of the greatest act of
cruelty to animals since the dawn of time.
"With more genuine compassion for the biting dog than would ever be
demonstrated by those who are "too kind" to make a
correction and certainly with more disregard for his safety, the
professional
trainer morally feels obligated to perform a "major operation."
"Since we are presently concerned with the dog that bites
in resentment of the demands of training, we will set our
example in that situation. (In a later chapter we will deal
with the with the much easier problem of the dog that
bites someone other than his master."
Are we havin FUN yet? Sounds like koehler was
writing JUST FOR YOU, eh, tree hugger forever?
Here's some more EXXXPERT advice:
tommy sez:
At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a
dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin does
*not* constitute a "beating."
And then he sez:
"I don't know how big you are, kiddo, so this may
not be as easy for you as it is for me, but use
a little "knee action," that is, as the dog goes
charging by you, just give the dog a little bop
with your knee and shin. Yep, really lean into it.
Even knock her over, if you can, but make sure to
make her think twice about rushing past you again -
- which is exactly what you want her to do.
Don't bother with scolding her, she'll get the message.
If it happens again, just REPEAT the knee action.
When she steps on your toes, just pick up your foot
abruptly and nudge her with your knee. Again, no
scolding is necessary here, so you don't have to
worry about her "over-reacting."
I don't think this is necessarily a lack of respect
for you, just a lack of training. That is, she just
needs *more* of it."
You mean like HOWE when you HOWEsbreak a dog an
you beat IT with a switch or heavy man's leather belt and
tie him next to his evil deed and return to BEAT HIM every
twenty minutes, tommy?
tommy SEZ:
"My objective is always to find a way that WORKS.
And if it is DANGEROUS behavior that I'm trying
to modify, behavior than can get the dog KILLED,
I will resort to ANYTHING to save him.
A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G.
Okay. Call me a cruel, inhumane, abusive bastard
if you want to, but it doesn't affect me at all.
When you've saved the lives of as many dogs as I
have, you'll learn that that's the only thing that
really matters. Saving lives and making dogs become
good citizens"
-----------------------
And of cuse, while you're here, you'll want to
take advantage of some puppy raisin tips:
----------------------
REPEAT, VARYING HOW HARD YOU HIT THE DOG.
BWEEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA!!!
captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK"
educator
> the neck on the floor untill it gives in. Always give praise when it
> obeys. The belly up shows its being submissive to you. give lots
> of love and yourl be rewarded.
And one wonders why dogs are getting more aggressive in society.
People with this attitude about dog training...
I won't despair just yet.
/Natalie