10 Month old Doberman mix Liver problems
hawk99...@hotmail.com
I posted earlier in the week because we were thinking that our 10 month
old had a blockage of some description due to lethargy and
regurgitation of water occasionally and vomiting every few days.
Multiple X-rays were carried out, and no foreign body was found.
However, the spleen/liver/pancreas looked slightly enlarged which at
the time the vet put down to medication (as she had been treated for
food poisoning).
I asked for a blood panel to be carried out, as we still had not found
the cause of the lethargy (our dog now simply lies in her bed and
doesn't want to play or walk).
The blood panel showed elevated levels of the Liver Enzymes : ALT= 987
(norm 10-100) and ALKP= 465 (norm 23-212). On closer inspection with
guided X-rays, the liver does appear to be slightly enlarged. They have
no ultrasound available here.
They do not think that this liver problem is a secondary problem. The
reading for the Pancreas (Amylase) appears normal/lower than normal =
292 (norm 500-1500) and this they said ruled out Pancreatitis, which we
were thinking was a possibility. They think she is too young for
Addison's.
So, the vet is presuming it is a type of Chronic Active Hepatitis and
treating with prednisone steroid, and two types of antibiotic, as well
as L/D Hills prescription diet. She plans to review in 10 days time and
carry out another blood test.
Now I get to where you may be able to help:
1. Has anyone had a young dog have Chronic Active Hepatitis? What was
the cause? Outlook?
2. She had been given a vetalog steroid injection and Metronidazole
antibiotics before the lethargy came on- has anyone had experiences
where these drugs have caused problems with the liver?
3. Any recommendations on diet supplements? Also, we live on an island,
and we will run out of the Hills Prescription L/D food soon- I have
read that K/D may be a good alternative (they do have that left), or
any pointers on a home made diet?
4. Has anyone followed through with a needle aspiration or invasive
surgery, for a liver biopsy? I feel these may be warranted in 10 days
time if things do not improve, but I am concerned about her having to
be opened up (she took longer than average to recover from her spay
operation when she was fit and healthy). A needle aspiration is less
invasive but is it likely to be good enough?
Thank you for listening!
Sharon
> antibiotics before the lethargy came on- has anyone had experiences
> where these drugs have caused problems with the liver?
Metronidazone is contraindicated in dogs with liver abnormalities. At the
time she was given this, the liver issue was unknown, though. This may be
makng the existing problem worse.
buglady
"Sharon" <askfor...@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:11r96i9...@corp.supernews.com...
.....and steroids can cause pancreatitis in breeds that are prone to this
problem.
.........To the OP - has this dog been tested for tick diseases or
Leptospirosis? The only way to definitively diagnosis CAH in dogs is with a
liver biopsy, so you don't necessarily have a diagnosis yet.
buglady
take out the dog before replying
Robin Nuttall
>
> .........To the OP - has this dog been tested for tick diseases or
> Leptospirosis? The only way to definitively diagnosis CAH in dogs is with a
> liver biopsy, so you don't necessarily have a diagnosis yet.
>
The first step to diagnosing CAH is getting two separate liver panels
2-3 weeks apart. A moderately elevated ALT on both tests (and 900 is
moderate) will indicate a biopsy is needed. Needle biopsies are not
always accurate, laproscopic biopsies where they can get a decent chunk
and also view the liver are best.
I haven't been following this thread and don't know if this is a male or
female mix, but CAH is almost unknown in male dobermans, totally unknown
in intact male dobes. It seems to be a disease of bitches and a few
neutered males. When I had Jasper in the CAH study at the University of
Missouri, he was the only male dog in the study--neutered.
hawk99...@hotmail.com
twice a day, as well as 500 mg Amoxicillin twice a day. She is a 50 lb
female mixed breed (part Doberman).
I am concerned about giving her the Metronidazole, though the vet has
prescribed these medications since the liver issue was found (as well
as previously). The vets change here every two weeks (as we are on an
island and they fly in from the States). She seems a competent vet from
Wisconsin and mentioned her mother's dog have liver problems but making
a full recovery (presumably with her help). Now I am torn. I have read
about this contraindiction as well, and have also found advice on
prescribing Metronidazole at much lower levels because of this- what
would amount to 160 mg. My gut says to reduce the amount. Any one else
with thoughts on this?
hawk99...@hotmail.com
Thank you for your comments. The vet has mentioned that Pancreatitis is
pretty much ruled out, as she is not vomiting as much as
'regurgitating', and not as often as normally seen with pancreatitis.
Also, her Amylase test was low (292 rather than 500-1500) which would
indicate no problem with the Pancreas. Having said that, I do feel that
the combination of the Vetalog (such a strong one off injection) and
the Metronidazole, made the liver problem progress much quicker, if it
they did not cause it. I am not sure if we will ever know whether they
caused it or made it worse, but she was regurgitating and vomiting
before taking them.
She has been tested for the tick diseases (Lyme and Ehrlichia) and
Heartworm which they have here. She came negative on all three (though
the vet had suspected these strongly at the time).
She hasn't been tested for Leptospirosis - I am not sure if that is on
this island, or if it is everywhere. I will look in to it. Thank you
for that angle.
hawk99...@hotmail.com
>The first step to diagnosing CAH is getting two separate liver panels
>2-3 weeks apart. A moderately elevated ALT on both tests (and 900 is
>moderate) will indicate a biopsy is needed. Needle biopsies are not
>always accurate, laproscopic biopsies where they can get a decent chunk
>and also view the liver are best. '
Thank you for this information. We will carry out another liver panel
in 10 days time (which will be 2 weeks apart) to see if anything has
changed, and I will post here. Then we will move towards the biopsy if
things haven't improved. At the moment, I am concerned about giving her
the antibiotics and steroids when we do not really know what is going
on, and I am resting with the judgement of the vet in the most part,
but am considering reducing the metronidazole dosage at least.
>I haven't been following this thread and don't know if this is a male or
>female mix, but CAH is almost unknown in male dobermans, totally unknown
>in intact male dobes. It seems to be a disease of bitches and a few
>neutered males. When I had Jasper in the CAH study at the University of
>Missouri, he was the only male dog in the study--neutered.
Bonnie is a spayed female 10 month old mixed breed. We are only
presuming she is part Doberman, and likely that one of her parents was
possibly purebred Doberman. She looks very similar to the Dobermans we
have seen on the island as pets, and it is likely that one of them went
with a stray dog on the island, and produced a litter including Bonnie.
I am not sure how likely it is that she has the inherited problems of
some purebred Dobermans, but I have a feeling that it has at least made
her more susceptible. Any thoughts or knowledge on Doberman mixes in
the study?
buglady
<hawk99...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1135964377.3...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Thank you for your comments. The vet has mentioned that Pancreatitis is
> pretty much ruled out, as she is not vomiting as much as
> 'regurgitating', and not as often as normally seen with pancreatitis.
> Also, her Amylase test was low (292 rather than 500-1500) which would
> indicate no problem with the Pancreas.
be elevated, but not always. If it is NOT elevated, it can't necessarily be
ruled out.
Having said that, I do feel that
> the combination of the Vetalog (such a strong one off injection) and
> the Metronidazole, made the liver problem progress much quicker, if it
> they did not cause it. I am not sure if we will ever know whether they
> caused it or made it worse, but she was regurgitating and vomiting
> before taking them.
>
> She has been tested for the tick diseases (Lyme and Ehrlichia) and
> Heartworm which they have here. She came negative on all three (though
> the vet had suspected these strongly at the time).
.......well, that's good, because I think steroids are contraindicated with
Erlichia IIRC.
........how about Babesia? What island is this - tropical?
>
> She hasn't been tested for Leptospirosis - I am not sure if that is on
> this island, or if it is everywhere. I will look in to it. Thank you
> for that angle.
......lepto can affect either the liver or the kidneys. It would take 2
weeks to get a test result.
.........And I wouldn't necessarily rule out Addison's either. The only way
to rule it out is an ACTH stimulation test.
.......I went back and reread your original post. What was the deal with
the food poisoning? You know for sure what she ate?
buglady
ta eout the dog before replying
ThePupp...@animail.net
hawk99...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Thank you for your reply.
Yeah. They been real heelpful.
> She is currently on 500 mg of Metronidazole
> twice a day, as well as 500 mg Amoxicillin
> twice a day.
Despite that NO TEST indicates those drugs are indiciated?
> She is a 50 lb female mixed breed (part Doberman).
90% of ALL DIS-EASE is iatrogenic / idiopathic.
> I am concerned about giving her the Metronidazole,
As well you should be:
Special warnings about this medication
If you experience seizures or numbness or tingling in
your arms, legs, hands, or feet, remember that you should
stop taking Flagyl and call your doctor immediately.
If you have liver disease, make sure the doctor is aware
of it. Flagyl should be used with caution.
Active or undiagnosed yeast infections may appear or
worsen when you take Flagyl.
Two serious side effects that have occurred with Flagyl
are seizures and numbness or tingling in the arms, legs,
hands, and feet. If you experience either of these symptoms,
stop taking the medication and call your doctor immediately.
More common side effects may include:
Abdominal cramps, constipation, diarrhea, headache, loss of
appetite, nausea, upset stomach, vomiting
Less common side effects may include:
Blood disorders, confusion, dark urine, decreased sex drive,
depression, difficulty sleeping, dizziness, dry mouth (or
vagina or vulva), fever, flushing, furry tongue, hives,
inability to hold urine, increased production of pale urine,
inflamed mouth or tongue, inflammation of the rectum, irritability,
lack of muscle coordination, metallic taste, occasional joint
pain, pain during sexual intercourse, painful or difficult
urination, pelvic pressure, rash, stuffy nose, vertigo, weakness,
yeast infection (candida) in vagina
Recommended dosage
ADULT
Trichomoniasis
One-day treatment: 2 grams of Flagyl, taken as a single dose
or divided into 2 doses (1 gram each) taken in the same day.
Seven-day course of treatment: 250 milligrams 3 times daily
for 7 consecutive days.
Acute Intestinal Amebiasis (Acute Amebic Dysentery)
The usual dose is 750 milligrams taken by mouth 3 times daily
for 5 to 10 days.
Amebic Liver Abscess
The usual dose is 500 milligrams or 750 milligrams taken by
mouth 3 times daily for 5 to 10 days.
Common Side Effects:
Check with your doctor if any of the following
sideeffects continue or are bothersome:
Diarrhea
dizziness or lightheadedness
headache
loss of appetite
nausea or vomiting
stomach pain or cramps
USES OF THIS MEDICATION
Metronidazole is an antibiotic especially effective against
anaerobic infections (infections that grow without the presence
of oxygen.) In addition, it has anti-inflammatory properties in
the large intestine and is a very effective anti-diarrhea medication.
It is an effective antibiotic against certain protozoal infections,
especially GIARDIA.
A common use of this medication would be the treatment of colitis,
which may or may not be caused by inflammatory bowel disease.
HOW THIS MEDICATION WORKS
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_metronidazole.html
The normal tissues of our bodies depend on the presence of oxygen
for survival and, indeed, we have an elaborate circulatory system
to see that oxygen is transported throughout our bodies. In other
words, our cells live aerobically.
Abscessed tissues and tumors with poor central circulation do not
receive blood supply and oxygen. Only bacteria that can live without
oxygen can survive in these areas. These bacteria are called
"anaerobic" bacteria.
In anaerobic conditions, the metronidazole molecule changes so as to
inhibit the DNA repair enzymes that normally would repair cells. This
means death for anaerobic bacteria but no effect on aerobic tissues.
Metronidazole is also used in radiotherapy for cancer as this DNA
effect can sensitize anaerobic tumor tissues to radiation making a
smaller dose of radiation more effective.
Metronidazole is able to modify cell mediated immunity so as to
normalize excessive immune reactions, especially in the large
intestine. We do not know how metronidazole is able to do this.
----------------------------------
> though the vet has prescribed these medications since
> the liver issue was found (as well as previously).
Liver - A moderate rise in AST (SGOT) and/or ALT (SGPT)
has been noted, but the significance of this finding is
unknown. Hepatic dysfunction including cholestatic jaundice,
hepatic cholestasis and acute cytolytic hepatitis have been
reported.
Renal ¾ Crystalluria has also been reported (see OVERDOSAGE).
Hemic and Lymphatic Systems - Anemia, including hemolytic
anemia, thrombocytopenia, thrombocytopenic purpura, eosinophilia,
leukopenia and agranulocytosis have been reported during therapy
with penicillins. These reactions are usually reversible on
discontinuation of therapy and are believed to be hypersensitivity
phenomena.
Central Nervous System ¾ Reversible hyperactivity, agitation,
anxiety, insomnia, confusion, behavioral changes, and/or dizziness
have been reported rarely.
Miscellaneous - Tooth discoloration (brown, yellow, or gray
staining) has been rarely reported. Most reports occurred in
pediatric patients. Discoloration was reduced or eliminated
with brushing or dental cleaning in most cases.
Vanishing bile duct syndrome associated with elevated pancreatic
enzymes after short-term administration of amoxicillin.
European Journal of Gastroenterology & Hepatology. 14(11):1275-1277,
November 2002. Schwarze, Carolynne a; Schmitz, Volker a; Fischer,
Hans Peter b; Sauerbruch, Tilman a; Spengler, Ulrich a
Abstract:
Amoxicillin is a widely used antibiotic, rarely being considered
a cause of hepatic injury. We report the case of a 45-year-old
woman who developed a vanishing bile duct syndrome 8 weeks after
initiation of amoxicillin therapy.
Liver biopsy showed destruction and loss of preformed bile ducts
together with an inflammatory infiltrate involving eosinophilic
leucocytes. Cholestasis was progressive despite prednisolone
treatment and was accompanied by elevation of pancreatic enzymes.
The patient died after 18 months from progressive liver failure.
This case illustrates that amoxicillin alone can be a cause of
progressive and ultimately fatal vanishing bile duct syndrome.
(C) 2002 Lippincott Williams & Wilkins, Inc.
SIDE EFFECTS: Side effects due to amoxicillin include diarrhea,
dizziness, heartburn, insomnia, nausea, itching, vomiting, confusion,
abdominal pain, easy bruising, bleeding, rash and allergic reactions.
What are the possible side effects of amoxicillin?
· If you experience any of the following serious side
effects, stop taking amoxicillin and seek emergency medical attention:
· an allergic reaction (shortness of breath; closing of
your throat; hives; swelling of your lips, face, or tongue; rash; or
fainting);
· seizures;
· severe watery diarrhea and abdominal cramps; or
· unusual bleeding or bruising.
· Other, less serious side effects may be more likely to
occur. Continue to take amoxicillin and talk to your
doctor
if you experience · mild nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, or
abdominal pain;
· white patches on the tongue (thrush/yeast infection);
· itching or discharge of the vagina (vaginal yeast infection);
· black, "hairy" tongue or sore mouth or tongue.
· Side effects other than those listed here may also occur.
Talk to your doctor about any side effect that seems
unusual
or that is especially bothersome.
What other drugs will affect amoxicillin?
· Some drugs may decrease the effects of amoxicillin and prevent it
from properly treating your infection. Before taking amoxicillin, tell
your doctor if you are taking any of the following drugs:
· cholestyramine (Questran) or colestipol (Colestid); or
· another antibiotic (for the same or for a different
infection) such as erythromycin (Ery-Tab, E-Mycin, E.E.S., others),
tetracycline (Sumycin, others), minocycline (Minocin), doxycycline
(Doryx, Vibramycin, others), or any other antibiotic.
· Amoxicillin may decrease the effectiveness of birth control
pills. Use a second method of birth control while taking amoxicillin to
protect against pregnancy.
· Amoxicillin increases the effects of methotrexate, and you may
need a dose adjustment during therapy with amoxicillin.
· Amoxicillin also increases the side effects of allopurinol
(Zyloprim) and may cause a rash.
· Probenecid (Benemid) increases the effects of amoxicillin. These
drugs may be used together for this purpose; however, be sure your
doctor is aware if you are taking probenecid. You may need a lower dose
of amoxicillin.
· Drugs other than those listed here may also interact with
amoxicillin. Talk to your doctor and pharmacist before taking any
prescription or over-the-counter medicines.
> The vets change here every two weeks (as we are on an
> island and they fly in from the States). She seems a
> competent vet from Wisconsin
INDEED? The Amazing Puppy Wizard has DISCREDITED a couple of
UofWI professors of behavior an veterinary ethology <{); ~ ) >
> and mentioned her mother's dog have liver problems but making
> a full recovery (presumably with her help). Now I am torn. I
> have read about this contraindiction as well, and have also
> found advice on prescribing Metronidazole at much lower levels
> because of this- what would amount to 160 mg. My gut says to
> reduce the amount. Any one else with thoughts on this?
The Amazing Puppy Wizard "JUST SEZ NO!" to drugs.
Perhaps you should be givin him sumpthin like milk
thistle or Beta Sitosterol. Maybe you should seek
a second opinion?:
Dr. Roger L. DeHaan, DVM, MTS
105 Police Club Drive
Kings Mountain, NC 28086
Tel/Fax 704-734-0061
http://www.aholisticvet.com/main.html
Subject: Re: 10 month old Mixed breed Lethargic, Regurgitating water
HOWEDY hawk99hawk99,
hawk99haw...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Thank you for your replies.
Yeah. HOWEver, there wasn't no INFORMATION given.
> It is good to get our priorities sorted out by
> getting outside perspectives.
You got two posts from a couple IMBECILIES.
> We have been thinking about a Pancreas infection or Kidney
> issue or enlarged throat (Megaesophagus) etc etc.
Those are most often CAUSED BY STRESS.
> We need to stop running away with theories.
Your vet has tested EVERY THING.
> I will take her in to the Vet next week and have a barium X-Ray
> of her throat to see if they can see anything, and also see the
> progress of the small pieces of bone in the stomach.
It DOES sound like a blockage or sumpthin... but it PROBABLY AIN'T.
> I will keep you posted.
That'd be heelpful for others. So often folks are EMBARRASSED
when they get the diagnosis if STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE
DIS-EASE they PREFER the dog was DEAD rather than learn that
THEY was the CAUSE of their dog's DEATHLY ILLNESS.
> In the mean time, if anyone else has had experience of other infections
Those ain't REAL "infections" they're INFLAMATIONS CAUSED BY STRESS.
> etc as mentioned above- what age of dog do they affect?
The ages vary depending on what STAGE the DIS-EASE is in at the moment.
> Are there more symptoms than we have?
Oh yes indeedy!
Your dog COULD BE suffering from STRESS. Just telling
him "NO!" a couple times a day is enough to cause him
to break dHOWEN.
The Puppy Wizard TOLD YOU SO, long ago and
right here abHOWETS. The vets quoted below
call your dog's condition Canine Stress Syndrome...
IFrom: "I Am" <HisMastersVo...@HushMail.Com>
Date: 14 Feb 2005 14:37:21 -0800
Subject: Re: HERE'S The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME:
Subject: Emotional Component Of Allergy - The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME
From: Sue and Atty (_apple_notmyrealaddr...@raexdot.com)
Subject: Re: 2 year old chewing paws ???
Date: 2004-08-02 16:00:29 PST
NAET Here's a site to check out. It sounds
very voodoo, but I went into it quite skeptical -
thinking at least it wasn't hurting her, and if it
didn't work, it was only money. I was amazed
at the results. http://www.vetnaet.com/
"There is a special application of NAET that addresses
the emotional component of allergy. Because emotions
can create energy blockages and therefore cause
imbalance, treating emotions as if they are allergens
can be accomplished with NAET.
By using MRT to identify emotional imbalances and
following the basic treatment protocol, it is possible
to address and resolve behavioral issues such as
inappropriate urination, antisocial behavior and
aggressiveness, as well as inter-family dynamics
and adaptation to change such as grief or loss."
Sue and Atty
=================
http://www.labbies.com/css.htm
Currently, other than rest, there is no generally accepted
medication which has been found to be effective for the
treatment of HMLR. Some individuals have, however,
responded to treatment with Diazepam or steroids.
How CSS Causes Seizures. Metabolic encephalopathy (ME) is
a disturbance of brain function resulting in neurologic
deficits and is caused by disorders of metabolism.
Accordingly, ME commonly occurs secondary to CSS because Ca
release channel defects have detrimental effects on the brain
and central nervous system.
The brain has limited stores of high-energy phosphates (ATP)
and glucose reserves that it requires to maintain neuronal
functionand cellular integrity. Therefore, the brain is dependent
upon glucose and oxygen supplied by blood flow for its energy
requirements.
Inability to maintain its own energy reserves makes the brain
extremely sensitive to metabolic disturbances that deplete
energy substrates from the blood.
Loss of calcium homeostasis plays a major role in the
development of neurologic dysfunction. Excessive release of
Ca as occurs in some dogs with CSS has effects including
but not limited to neurotransmitter release and acute energy
depletion.
In other dogs with CSS, persistent leakage of Ca creates a
continuous demand for energy. In either of these forms of CSS,
the increased demand for energy quickly or persistently
depletes the blood of energy substrates required by the brain.
One of the major energy requiring functions of the brain is to
maintain the resting membrane potential by the
sodium/potassium ion pump.
When the brain cannot get the energy it requires, the pump
fails and the membrane potential decays toward threshold
producing the neuron discharge responsible for seizures.
This explains why even mild stimuli such as eating
and fasting can result in seizures in the CSS-susceptible
dog. Fasting inhibits replacement of blood glucose depleted
by elevated energy demands in dogs with leaky Ca release.
Even mildly afflicted dogs that demonstrate low level Ca
leakage will have higher energy requirements.
Because eating induces insulin production that will require
glucose to balance the insulin levels, additional requirement
of glucose during eating will also further compromise a CSS-
susceptible dog whose glucose levels are already depleted
due to Ca leakage.
This condition of depleted blood glucose levels, which occurs
in conjunction with CSS, is known as hypoglycemia and may
be one of the principle causes for seizures in CSS dogs.
http://www.working-retriever.c om/library/myo.html
Preliminary biochemical data indicate significantly elevated
concentrations of sodium, calcium, zinc, copper, chloride,
fat, and intracellular water and reduced levels of potassium
and magnesium in muscles from affected adult Labrador
retrievers.
In addition, a significant decrease in muscle specific
proteins has been identified in the biceps femois muscle of
affected dogs.
Despite the presence of some apparently "neurogenic" features,
examination of the various parts of the lower motor neuron has
so far failed to identify morphological abnormalities.
The underlying pathophysiologial mechanisms involved
in this disease are, therefore, still unclear.
BUT NHOWE YOU KNOW HOWE COME... it's
The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME, dog lovers.
Prognosis:
In most cases, the clinical signs stabilize between 6 months
and one year of age, and affected dogs may become acceptable
house pets, although they are not suitable for work.
Owners of affected dogs should be warned that stress,
including exposure to low temperatures, can result in a
dramatic worsening of clinical signs, even in clinically
stable adults. The life span of affected dogs does not appear
to be directly affected by the condition, although the
prognosis for dogs with megaesophagus should be more guarded,
due to the risk of developing inhalation pneumonia.
===================
HERE'S The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME:
From: lis...@mindspring.com (RemarQ User)
Date: 1999/07/08
Subject: Re: Termite Boxer
Jane Webb, I laughed at your reply. Surprisingly enough, he has
yet to get sick after his wood snacks. As far as the vet goes;
he cannot find anything wrong with him or missing from his diet.
I think yall are right, boxers are just 'unique'(we try not to
say odd around him due to his extreme neurosis). It's weird; he
had so many health problems his first 5 years-puppy seizures,
hives, tumors, one cancerous mast cell one, pancreatitis, pneumonia,
megaesophagus.
He would have died at an early age with a less worrying owner.
But now, all we worry about is a little arthritis in his hind
quarters...
and of course this dang wood chip thing. And I can ssure you,
it's not a lack of fiber; he's pretty regular atleast four times
a day.
From: Perso...@concentric.net (Alicia A. Knapp)
Date: 1997/06/05
Subject: Re: pronged collar for pulling on lead?
On 2 Jun 1997 21:44:34 GMT, "Marcy & Lance Wilhelm"
<L-MWilh...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
<snip>
> I'd also like to know if it's humane because it
> looks a little like an instrument of torture.
> Please respond. Thanks.
Hi Marcy,
I have owned two dogs that needed the pinch. The first was my
Doberman Grendel who, having megaesophagus, was extremely sensitive
to any pressure on the front of her neck/throat. Choke collar
corrections caused regurgitation - the pinch did not.
It was far kinder to her.
The second is my Dobe Mako. Physically, she's a "hard" dog;
temperamentally she's an easily discouraged creampuff. The
pinch collar allowed a decisive correction delivered with
a minimum of fuss/effort, which worked for her.
There have been so many good replies to this post that I'll confine my
remarks to this one point: If the pinch looks like a medieval torture
device to you, it will likely seem so to J. Q. Public during walks.
(Perhaps due to the breed of dog I own, I have encountered people who
either thought the collar was some sign of my dogs being "dangerous"
or me being a "mean" person. <sigh>)
I have a pink bandanna I call "Public Relations" and I wrap it around
the outside of the pinch - thus hiding it. Works like a charm in
transforming my dogs from "tortured Public Enemy #1" to "Cute Doggie
on a Walk." (Hey! Maybe all you APBT owners just need to buy a
shitload of bandannas... <BEG>)
As your dog has more coat than mine do, you may not need this advice,
but I thought I'd offer it, all the same. Good luck with your
training, and remember the collar is only a tool - you still need to
learn to use it right, with timing and consistency.
--
Alicia Knapp,
The DoberGRLs, Echo and Mako
and The Dog of Eternal Stench, Boomer, in
Anoka, MN
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Home is where the dogs are.
From: Perso...@concentric.net (Alicia A. Knapp)
Date: 1997/11/01
Subject: Re: BORED W/KOEHLER? TRY THIS!!....
YOU CAN'T "CONTROL FREAK" THE MUZZLE!!
Ye Gods, I didn't have the energy to read this whole thing,
but whattayaknow, my own name leapt out at me.
On Fri, 31 Oct 1997 01:21:57 -0200, The Muzzle Changing ZenMaster
<zzen...@earthlink.com> wrote:
<snip Robert C.'s contributions>
>> On Wed, 29 Oct 1997 09:03:39 -0200, The Muzzle Changing ZenMaster
>> <zzen...@earthlink.com> wrote: <M-U-N-C-H>
>> > ==============================
>> > Let's consider Alicia A. Knapp?
>> > ===============================
>
>> > I'm not sure if you did everything by the book, Alicia,
>> > but it's also obvious, that your "washed out" show dog
>> > didn't quite turn out like you expected.
You're right; she didn't. I bought Mako to compete in obedience,
from a responsible breeder. Apparently you misunderstand that this
constitutes some magical guarantee that a dog will be perfect; it
does not. The best that even a careful breeder can do is to determine
(as much as possible) whatever faults their stock carry, and make
every effort not to perpetuate serious ones.
In Mako's case, the breeder produced a shy pup (a fault as
defined by the breed standard) from temperamentally correct
dogs. What makes her a *responsible* breeder is that upon
learning this, she adjusted her program. (I believe the sire
was neutered as he had produced one other.) She also sends
every puppy buyer a two-page questionnaire when the dog has
matured, asking about temperament and health.
IMO, a responsible breeder is not someone who never errs, but is
someone who *learns* from those mistakes and goes on to do better
for the sake of the *dogs.*
And, in a way, I didn't actually do it "right" in the sense that I
find I like a hard dog with strong working drives... I'll be finding
a breeder who raises and trains Schutzhund dogs next time around.
>> >And your bitches aren't like the inimitable and proverbial
>> >Grendel was, and you seem to wish they were.
Heh heh -- see above. (Echo, btw, has a temperament to die for ...
but there will never be another like Grendel.)
>> >Maybe if you had gone
>> >to a more "reputable breeder" you could have gotten another Grendel?
<snip>
LOL! Grendel was the product of a puppy mill; her temperament was
happy accident (for me - she was on the hyper side) and probably a
one-shot. I doubt even her "breeders" could produce another like her.
And well they shouldn't. She was sort of funny lookin' and
lion-hearted though she was, she had missing teeth. She had
megaesophagus and was diagnosed with hip dysplasia by age 5. Most dogs
with megaesophagus die of aspiration pneumonia before they are one
year old. Grenny was lucky to escape this fate; my vet lost her
megaesophagus dog by age 2.
Ever dealt with a dog cursed by megaesophagus? Few do -- because it
involves living with a dog who regurgitates almost daily, often
several times. It involves ruined carpets, marred floors and stained
furniture. If the dog sleeps in a crate, it sleeps in its own mess. If
it sleeps with the owner (as Grendel did) it involves *countless*
episodes of being awaked in the small hours to strip the bed.
And how much do you wanna bet that this "breeder" went on, blithely
breeding the pair that produced her?
As for the implication that I am unhappy with my dogs, I think my
posting history puts the lie to it.
Yes, it was hard coming to terms with Mako's unsuitability for the
obedience ring, but I love her dearly for who she is, and in a way,
I'm prouder of her than any dog I've owned. She was a tough nut to
crack in terms of training and I learned more from her than any ten
other dogs could teach. And she got the Mako version of OTCH a few
years ago when she stood calmly for a little boy who wanted to hug her
at the Renaissance Festival. What an achievement for a girl that
doesn't like strangers to even touch her!
*Everybody* has expectations of some sort when they select a dog.
Can she go jogging with me?
Will he sit quietly in my lap while I watch TV?
Can I teach her to fetch?
Will he bark when someone knocks on the door?
Can she do FlyBall?
Will he shed?
Carefully selecting the breed and source of a dog is a rational way to
increase the *odds* that a particular dog will meet the expectations
of a particular owner. If a teetotaler is seeking a mate, he'd be wise
not to cruise the bars for her, eh?
But life doesn't come with guarantees. I happen to be the sort of
person that makes a permanent commitment to my dogs -- if I get a
surprise or two along the way, I'll adjust what I can with training
and adjust my expectations from there.
I'm willing to be an "example" for that cause, anyway.
--
Alicia Knapp,
The DoberGRLs, Echo and Mako
and Boomer, The Dog of Eternal Stench, in
Anoka, MN
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Home is where the dogs are.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: p.k...@home.com (The Kayes)
Date: 23 Aug 2003 09:17:27 -0700
Subject: Re: update: SIMON
Jody - I can only imagine how frustrating this is for
you. But the way you have handled everything so far is
no different than how I would have handled it.
I strongly feel that the answer to Simon's health
issues are out there somewhere. Vets (and Doctors)
tend to get very frustrated when they don't have the
answers. But somewhere out there lies the answer. And
somewhere out there is the person who is going to give
it to you. It's like a frustrating puzzle; something
is wrong, the vets are supposed to have the missing
pieces, but they don't. So they send you away with
a condesending pat on your head and tell you to "come
back dear in a few months if things don't improve."
You sound like a very strong and determined person and
if anyone if going to come up with the answer,
it is going to be you.
You are the type of person who will do as much research
as possible to find the answer. The amount of energy and
time you will devote to finding the answer will naturally
vary from time to time.
At times you will be physically and emotionally
charged and ready to give it all you've got. At other
times, you will feel deflated, defeated and emotionally
spent. When we have the strength to do, we will.
When our strength is so depleated than we must
get our strength from leaning on those who surround
us. This is natural.
I too have been lurking and at times have seen you
supercharged and ready to take on the world. At other
times, I have seen you realize that you need someone
to lean on. And during these times this group
has been more than willing to let you rest against
them and draw the much needed energy from them in
order to help you keep moving forward.
I can offer no words of wisdom. I have not walked a
mile in your shoes yet I can feel everything you are
going through just by reading your words. Never give
up.
You have already found some solutions to make
him feel more comfortable. You have kept copious notes
on Simon and I hope that one day you will come across
the vet who has the answer to your question.
If there is anything I can do to help make your search
for the answer more successful, I offer you my assistance.
My research skills, my sheer determination, and my
ability to locate the right people and push the right
buttons, are my strengths.
If there is anything I can do, then please do not
hesitate to contact me. I live in Toronto. My email
address is p.k...@rogers.com
From: "The Puppy Wizard"
<ThePuppyWiz...@earthlink.net> -
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 03:58:36 GMT
Subject: Re: Was *Poorly* now BETTER
HOWEDY
"J*O*d*Y" <"jodeez(TRASH)stuff"@sympatico.ca> wrote in
message news:3F6F695D...@sympatico.ca...
>
> Hi Paul.... I'm so glad to hear that things are back
> to normal.....
NORMAL?
BWEEEAAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
NORMAL IS INSANE!!!
> Give Shadow a big "Labbie" hug from Simon!!!
INDEED.
> J*o*D*y
YOUR DOG'S GOT The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME:
From: J*O*D*Y ("jodeez(TRASH)stuff"@sympatico.ca)
ubject: Re: Update - Simon again - Grrrrrr!!!!
Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.labrador
Date: 2003-06-22 08:52:12 PST
Hi all.... The 'resident' vet feels that he is healthy
enough to endure it at the same time. My concern
is that if he has an immune-mediated condition, he
will have impaired wound healing, just the same as
humans do.
She does not know what is wrong with him. This
contributes to the frustration every time we deal with
the vet teaching hospital.
Although it is one of the top 5 in the world, they are
advocates for continuity of care. Each time we go, a
new 'resident' vet takes his case. We start back
at day one.... they hear what they want...... they
form their own opinions.....
The first one said that Simon's clinical signs could
be due to a behavioral issue. (Yes, a mass in his
neck, damaged lungs, and a problem prehending
his food.... Does anyone know where one could buy a
new brain???)
The second one, well, um, uh... let's just say that
the J-cloth on my kitchen counter had more charisma
that she did :-)
Prior to my noticing Simon's muscle weakness in his
legs, I had mentioned that when he sits on my lap in the
lazyboy chair, when he goes to get down, his front legs
touch the floor, and he stays in a 'wheelbarrel' position
as long as I leave him....
I usually end up coaxing him down, and lifting him
down. She said to attach no significance to this
because her NORMAL doberman does that.... I now
know for a fact that the reason Simon stayed like that
is because his back legs were too weak for him to get
himself up into position in preparation to take his
back end down with him.....
Normally, this wouldn't concern me, but this behavior
painted into the whole picture, helps to make it much
more clear.
She also prescribed 2 meds to take at the same time -
Fenbendazole, 'just in case he had a fungal infection,'
and Prednisone, 'which shouldn't be administered in the
case of a fungal infection.'
Figure that one out....
The third one tried to tell me that a heart rate of
240 was normal (and that panting 340 'pants' per
minute was normal) uh, for 8-10-12 hours???? (My
own vet though he would cardiac arrest at that time,
El Bimbette!!).... and even though the Neurologist
watched Simon's video of how he eats and how
excessive he pants, she still said that when she
watched the video, he looked like a normal dog.
(It really bothers me to no end, 'cuz here is
this young girl half my age, telling me so
'matter-of-factly' the way it is....)
I had to tell her that I was really doubting her
intelligence and her abilities to care for my dog.
She didn't think that I needed to puree his foods,
but based on the difficulty he has, I need to. Since
we started pureeing his food, he has eaten every
single meal, which we have increased by half more....
every single meal since June 10th.... This is the
longest stretch he has eaten.
He still has a little trouble, but 'licking' it up,
seems to work best for him, and his tongue doesn't
appear to 'tire' as quick.
I fed him there, and I mixed his food quite well, but
it was still a thick consistency. I told her that what
will happen, is that he will eagerly 'lick' over and
over again, and he ends up only getting a small amount.
He will tire.... and he will walk away from it. He will
be frustrated, and he will come back. He will lick it a
few more times, and walk away.... I know my dog....
"Mother's know best..." AND he did exactly what I said
he'd do..... He hardly ate any of his meal there. She said
it was likely due to the environment, all the excitement, etc.
(QUACK!!!)
Also, she insisted that I feed him immediately after
they exercised him to induce his weakness and
excessive panting.... I told her that under no
circumstances, would I ever feed my dog when he is
panting like this, as he is at a very high risk for
aspiration.... She disagreed. She also told me that
there is no pain with a neuter....
The only advantage I see to having his neutering done
at this time, is that he wouldn't have to endure an
anaesthetic at a later date.
IF he has Myasthenia Gravis, they must be so
careful with anaesthetic. I'm kind of caught between
a rock and a hard place....
I have expressed my concerns, but they fall on deaf
ears..... Any concrete info about risks, dangers,
implications, etc. related to having a sick dog
neutered?
Jody & Simon
J*O*D*Y wrote:
> We are no further ahead with Simon at this point. He
> doesn't seem to be in any pain... which I am truly thankful
> for.... After his 72 hour 'crisis,' he is now on pureed
canned
> food and he has eaten everything since we started doing
> this on June 10.. hasn't missed a meal.
>
> (We leave a little bit of dry kibble out for him, but it
> usually lasts 3-4 days, as he will go get a few pieces
> here and there...) He still has a bit of a problem eating
> the pureed food, but at least he's eating. 3.5 months
> of hardly eating much was not good.
> In case you missed the '72 hour crisis,' he had a
> drastic deterioration a couple of weeks ago. Excessive
> panting (340 'pants' per minute) 240 heart rate, and he
> has been bunny-hopping when he runs since then.....
> He walks 'stilted,' although they haven't even noticed this
> at the hospital.
> His energy level is about the same, and his panting
> has decreased.... He is still exercise intolerant. He's
> had an ACTH stimulation test, which was normal....
> We're now awaiting results on his serum antibody
> test, and based on those results, we will know then
> if we proceed with the EMG and muscle biopsy (and
> neuter!!) all at the same time.
> He has good days, and he has days where he is
> lethargic all day, with today being one of them.
> Hopefully, we'll have it all figured out soon....
> it's been going on far too long....
> I'll post something when we find out.......
> Jody & Simon
Oh, bye the bye, here's HOWE COME your dog is DEATHLY ILL:
From: J*O*D*Y ("jodeez(TRASH)stuff"@sympatico.ca)
Subject: Re: Counter Jumping
Date: 2003-06-13 12:26:23 PST
The first time Simon did this (around 4 months old),
I 'baited him' the following evening, at the advice of
our obedience trainer.
I put out the same food he stole (salmon sandwich) and left
the room. I walked out and turned around as he was jumping
up. I flew into the kitchen like a wild crazy person - arms
flapping, loud hollering, just basically scaring the livin'
bajeezus out of him..... The even said you could try doing
the above and banging pots and pans.... I didn't want him to
have a cardiac arrest, so I chose to lower the volume :-)
It worked..... He's 10 months old now, and although he is
very ill, he's never ever done anything remotely similar....
Jody
From: "The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWiz...@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:08:51 GMT
Subject: Re: Update: SIMON
HOWEDY j*o*d*y
"J*O*d*Y" <"jodeez(TRASH)stuff"@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3F8C9CC2...@sympatico.ca...
> Thanks for all of the replies.... and all of the nice
> compliments!!!
INDEEDY. It's NICE to be NICE. Ain't it.
> I truly feel that I am lucky to have Simon.....
INDEEDY. Too bad for Simon.
> I just can't imagine not having him around.
Well, just open the door and step back an
he'll be HISTORY.
> I will update here from time to time....
The Puppy Wizard knows what your future holds.
> and pop in to say 'hi' and check to see
> how everyone's doing :-)
INDEEDY. You got a SICK dog...
> J*oD*Y
Your dog is DYIN of STRESS from MISHANDLING.
He's got The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME:
From: J*O*D*Y ("jodeez(TRASH)stuff"@sympatico.ca)
Subject: Re: Update - Simon again - Grrrrrr!!!!
> "This contributes to the frustration every time we
> deal with the vet teaching hospital. Although it
> is one of the top 5 in the world, they are advocates
> for continuity of care. Each time we go, a new
> 'resident' vet takes his case. We start back at day
> one.... they hear what they want...... they form their
> own opinions.....
IMAGINE THAT??? The doctors want to form their
own opinions abHOWET a perplexing case?
> The first one said that Simon's clinical signs could
> be due to a behavioral issue.
INDEED? You mean, like jerking and choking IT
on your pronged spiked pinch choke collar and
shock containment system and ignoring and
rejecting him and locking IT in a box?
> (Yes, a mass in his neck, damaged lungs, and a
> problem prehending his food....
INDEED??? STRANGE GOIN'S ON, eh?
> Does anyone know where one could buy a new brain???)
You'll have to ask The _ Wizard.
HOWEDY Allan,
"Allan Wong" <allanw...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:vf3kb.117459$pl3.74754@pd7tw3no...
> Approximately 3 months ago, I had posted messages here
> regarding my chocolate lab Jasper,
You won't be gettin no advice from HOWER dog lovers
here abHOWETS. They've got the same same same
same problems you do, to varying degrees.
<snip story>
It's all the same same same same, Allan.
> Jasper is under a heavy load of Glucosamine/Chondroitin,
That's shown some good results, as have the other essential
oils, amino acids, vitamins especially C A&D, antioxidents,
etc. in the correct BALANCE.
These SYNDROMES are CAUSED BY STRESS on the
nervHOWES / endocrine systems from MISHANDLING.
UofOH and other researcher's have recently identified
the link between EMOTIONAL STRESS HORMONES and a list
of DIS-EASES which they can pricipitate, among them,
osteoporosis, glaucoma, and your dog's condition.
> he is crated to reduce his exercise,
Which may be responsible for STRESSING HIM:
From: "Toni" <T...@irish-wolfhoundsSPAM.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:20:35 GMT
Subject: Re: Temperment of Golden
"Diana" <diana_pete.st...@lineone.net> wrote in message
news:9ml9kq$2rc38$1...@ID-104574.news.dfncis.de...
> Lately it seams people just want - I see, I want, with no thought for
> anything else but their own selves. This trend is being made easier with
> little cages, maybe you use yours properly, but do you see that the OP's
> dog ws so distressed it was being ill as a valid reason to continue using
> it?...
Actually, I believe the OP's dog has other issues... I would
first have the dog evaluated by a veterinarian.... it sounds
more to me like megaesophagus than anything else. Vomiting
consistently after eating is the classic sign.
--
Toni
www.irish-wolfhounds.com
From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 22:47:20 -0400
Subject: Re: people are idiots pt 294
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 21:09:19 -0500, Kathleen
<khhfmdel...@thischarter.net> wrote:
>sighthounds & siberians wrote:
>> On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:58:20 -0400, Suja <spana...@scs.gmu.edu> wrote:
>>>sighthounds & siberians wrote:
>
>>>> No, no, keeps it down! <g>
>
>>> It is nice to see that you're maintaining a sense
>>> of humor about all this.
>
>> A sense of humor is absolutely essential to survival, in my opinion.
>
>>> Hmm. That's rough. I wonder if you can rig up something that
>>> will let her sit and eat off something that is at chin level.
>
>> I've a feeling that something may be hand-feeding. She doesn't have
>> to sit to eat, but should sit after she eats. But she couldn't sit in
>> her crate if she wants to - - she's too tall. I think we'll have to
>> be supervising her eating and post-eating even more closely than we
>> were after the surgery.
>
> One of my teammates had a BC with multiple health problems, including
> digestive issues and megaesophagus. She fed him in a nearly vertical
> posture, with her seated in a chair and him sitting up next to her, butt
> on the floor, paws on her lap. She would hold each bite up, requiring
> him to tilt his head up and slightly back. She would alternate this
> with carefully controlled countersurfing, allowing him to stand on his
> hind legs and be fed bite by bite off the counter.
I don't think her hind legs are strong enough for the countersurfing
part, but the sitting up is worth a try. Keep those ideas coming,
folks; I have a feeling we'll be doing a lot of experimenting in the
next few days.
Mustang Sally
From: "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net>
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 01:15:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Temperment of Golden
The dog only does it when he's crated. Dogs get anxious when
they're crated, and that makes them SICK. Ask your pal matt.
There's a whole lot of dogs with seizures who are coincidentally
crated.
Crating dogs can cause them to be hyperactive and aggressive
and to self mutilate and dig and chew and bark and pace and
whine incessantly.
That's all because our "experts" don't have any idea what they
are doing, or they wouldn't be crating and choking and shocking
and pinching ears and toes and testicles and beating dogs with
sticks to MOTIVATE them. Would they? j;~}
> and his food is reduced to keep him fit.
Commercial dog foods may contribute to these problems
as does traditional handling and training and crating.
> Jasper is now 13 months old and in the past 3 months I
> would say that Jasper has maintained a good condition;
> he didn't get better or worse.
Right. That'll happen later in the form of other sympoms.
> He is bunny-hopping when he runs, has a bit of difficulty
> in rising after a long time laying down, and stiffness
> occurs in the morning, etc.
Yeah... the same same same same as so many other dogs
here abHOWETS.
> I never gave up and we did visit a few more vets in the
> past 3 months.
INDEEDY. HOWER dog lovers have spent FORTUNES
vetting their dogs for STRESS RELATED DIS-EASES
which will NEVER BE CURED using drugs and diet if
THE CAUSE of the STRESS is not EXXXTINGUISHED.
professor lying doc "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM "NO!"
into ITS face for 5 seconds and lock IT in a box for ten
minutes reflection" dermer of the department of ANAL-ytic
behaviorISM at UofWI recently fHOWEND a CURE for his dog
Maxie The Magnificent FuriHOWESLY Obsessive Compulsive
Masturbator's recurrent urinary / bladder / ibd SYNDROME.
He rubs his tallywhacker for five minutes every nite at
bedtime with a warm tHOWEL and aloe gel. Try it
for your own dog if he enjoys it, and you'll likeWIZE
see the CALMING benefit of TLC, extinguish your
dog's symptoms.
Of curse, this will not work if you've got to restrain
the dog to treat his "condition" or continue punishing
/ scolding / intimidating / choking / bribing / withholding
bribes / crating your dog.
> Today, we visited another vet, an old man that has
> been in the business for more than 35 years. The
> old man reviewed several X-ray records which Jasper
> had taken in the past few months with a few different vets.
> He observed Jasper's actions such as rising, walking and
> running. Then he told me that Jasper is mis-diagnosis.
INDEEDY. Other MISDIAGNOSISES are commonly
addisons and cushings and other myopathies/myalgias
lupus and most "autoimmune" DIS-EASES.
> There is no Hip Dysphasia, no ACL. Instead, he said
> Jasper's condition is referred as "HMLR" - Hereditary
> Myopathy of Labrador Retrievers.
Although there's a genetic link, the condition probably
won't manifest unless the dog is STRESSED, like by
having a choke chain or pronged spiked pinch choke
collar an crate confinement till he's QUIET and HOWEsbroke.
> He told me not to waste my money in considering of
> surgery or any medication as this is another kind of
> genetic disorder of the breed.
INDEEDY. Seems to best respond to VALLIUM.
A TRANQUILIZER. Like professor SCRUFF SHAKE'S
tallywhacker treatment... in a sense.
Welcome to The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME, allan.
> He said that it is quite possible Jasper's condition would
> be stabilize right now or even improve a bit when he gets
> older, around 18 months old.
Right. Then he'll manifest other symptoms as he reaches
3 and 6 years of age... Your dog's got a case of The
Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME.
> I then used Google to find out more about this and
> discovered several websites talking about "HMLR".
> I was just wondering if the folks here can provide
> some more information and think it would be good
> or bad to keep giving Jasper the Glucosamine/Chondroitin
Absolutely. As stated above.
> if he has no HD or ACL? Is there
> any side effect in the long run?
Probably not.
> Thanks for any ideas.
From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 10:29:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Follow up on Canidae
On 22 Dec 2005 07:14:41 -0800, "beth...@aol.com"
<beth...@aol.com> wrote:
> sighthounds & siberians wrote:
> I'm paying $34 for a 40lb bag. The only foods I see at my mom-n-pop
> store that are more expensive are Eukanuba and Wellness. I don't
> remember what Innova costs, since I tried it when I switched from BARF
> and it gave Wojo the runs.
> Maybe your definition of top dollar is different from mine. <shrug>
Add Anna, who can eat only canned food (and due to her megaesophagus,
we feed her Nutro which is a paste consistency, so no discounts there),
and our feed bill is $300 a month, minimum. For the dogs, that is.
Mustang Sally
HOWEDY racetrack silly,
sighthounds & siberians wrote:
> On 6 Oct 2005 17:48:31 -0700, "beth...@nospam.goaway.con"
> <beth...@aol.com> wrote:
> >The Halloween peeps are here!
> Thanks for the heads up!
You're SCARIER than any hobgoblin from the depths of HEEL.
> I'll make sure to buy a supply...
Whopiee!
> Anna had unilateral tieback surgery yesterday, by the way.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard NEVER HEARD of THAT!
> They wanted to send her home today, but the specialty
> clinic is more than an hour away, DH is on nights this week
Isn't he physically and emotionally CRIPPLED?
> and I am too swamped at work to take the day off.
Yeah. Work. YUK!
> Besides, she had surgery late in the day yesterday and
> I wanted to give her more time under the supervision of
> the experts to whom we're paying $2000.
I'll have to look up the condition. I'd BET MY LIFE,
DHOWEBLE OR NUTHING that it's a STRESS INDUCED AUTO-
IMMUNE DIS-EASE aka The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME.
INDEEDY! I guess I get to live another milennium!:
"Roaring" or laryngeal hemiplegia is due to a
neuropathy of the reurrent laryngeal nerve on the left
side. The muscle which abducts the left vocal cord
is therefore paralyzed, and the resulting turbulent
airflow causes the noise.
Surgery generally involves "tying back" the
vocal cord, sort of like tying back a curtain, although
there are some experimental procedures on nerve
transplantation being tried.
Surgery is about the only treatment for the
condition.
I can't see where sweating the neck would
worsen the condition, unless there were only a
partial paralysis and pressure was somehow put on
the nerve, which seems unlikely.
--C.M.Newell, DVM
(owner of the World's Most Expensive Free Horse,
who had tieback surgery *twice*)
> They said she did fine,
Of curse! All she NEEDS is a STRESS FREE environment.
My larynix goes HOWETA WHACK if I'm stressed, just
like my knee, ankle and back, all STRESS INDUCED DIS-
EASES, racetrack silly, JUST LIKE the SEIZURES four
of your dogs are goin through and the CANCERS four
of your dogs DIED from, racetrack silly!
> with no complications so far.
Your dogs ALWAYS recover from their stress induced
auto-immune DIS-EASES because THAT'S the NATURE of
The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME. Till they DIE from it,
usually at your own hand. But this one DON'T LOOK
GOOD because it's CAUSED BY jerking choking shocking
crating bribing and witholding attention affection
rewards and unconditional love trust and respect:
"Conditions such as neuromuscular or metabolic diseases
(myasthenia gravis, hypothyroidism), trauma (bite wounds
or blunt trauma to the neck), inflammation or neoplasia
may lead to laryngeal paralysis."
"Most of the time, the specific cause
of the muscle paralysis is not known."
It's CAUSED by STRESS, just like my laryngeal
problem which muted me for 8 months many years
ago and reocurs NEARLY INSTANTLY if I should
ever lose my temper.
"Occasionally, laryngeal paralysis is only one sign
of a systemic neurological disorder, but most of the
time it is a problem that occurs by itself. Clinical
signs of laryngeal paralysis are related to failure
of normal movement of the vocal folds."
IOW, The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME!
> Mustang Sally
HOWEDY racetrack silly, you dog murderin mental case,
sighthounds & siberians wrote:
> On 11 May 2005 19:39:45 -0700, "jettjon" <jett...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >First, I have tried to be extremely consistent, ensuring that
> >she defecates at the start of each walk. However, this seems to make
> >little difference. I will constantly say "No! No!" when she begins to
> >slow and give signs that she is about to "go." I've even tried
> >reinforcing with light lashes with the leash, or, in desperation,
> >open-palmed slaps. This continues unabated. Any ideas beyond simply
> >not walking this dog?
> Does she do this in your own yard,
The dog's behavior would be different in his yard.
> or wherever you take her for routine potty breaks?
You can tell alot abHOWET a dog by his toilet habits
JUST LIKE HOWE you can tell alot abHOWET a dog by his
tail. S-HOWENDS like this dog is MARKING with her POOP.
> If not, and if she's seen the vet recently
While it COULD be a veterinary problem it PROBABLY AIN'T.
> and been cleared of possible intestinal parasites,
What parasites would cause this behavior,
racetrack silly? Don't seem to be a SYMPTOM
of parasites.
> it could be a marking behavior.
Could be.
But is's PROBABLY a SYMPTOM of anXXXIHOWESNESS.
You can figger THAT HOWET by EXXXAMINING HOWE
the dog is being handled and trained...
> We had a particularly dominant bitch
There AIN'T NO SUCH THING as a "dominant" anything.
That type of behavior is LEARNED, COPIED from their
ABUSERS.
> that would mark with poop on walks,
NO PROBLEM. ANY behavior that's CONSISTENT
REPEATABLE or PREDICTABLE is EZ to EXXXTINGUISH
NEARLY INSTANTLY using effective non physical
scientific and psychological conditioning
techniques as taught in YOUR FREE COPY of
The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual <{) ; ~ ) >
> to the point that she was empty and her
> butt was orange.
S-HOWENDS like ANXXXIHOWESNESS, not "MARKING."
> Slapping and "lashing" her are likely
> to be ineffective at best.
You think so, racetrack silly?
> Try ignoring what she's doing
THAT AIN'T gonna TRAIN the dog not to
do that noMOORE, racetrack silly <{); ~ ) >
> and continuing to walk when she
> starts to slow down or squat.
She won't move, racetrack silly.
He'd have to DRAG and CHOKE her.
> Mustang Sally
You're a IDIOT:
"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."
"Sally Hennessey" <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:54nuetsqgkhp26qqv...@4ax.com...
Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.
I'm starting to see some similarities here.
Sally Hennessey
"My spayed Siberian bitch marks and covers all
over the place, as did my spayed Dalmatian bitch.
The Borzoi doesn't, but she is *extremely* submissive."
Sally Hennessey
"Oops, hit "send" too fast. Of course bitches in
season are advertising, so that type of behavior
might be typical of Murphy. And some folks think
that spaying actually increases dominant/aggressive
behavior in bitches that were dominant/aggressive
beforehand, so perhaps marking behavior also
increases in those bitches."
Sally Hennessey
From: "The Puppy Wizard"
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:17:31 GMT
Subject: Re: Tara and Sally, kindred spirits in dog killing
PATHETIC, eh Soup?
"@d o g t v dot com" <""m i c h e ae l \
"@d o g t v dot com"> wrote in message
news:PeicnR5oY7Q...@comcast.com...
> sighthounds etc. wrote:
> > On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 15:56:36 -0400,
> >"Tara O." <boxert...@netscape.net> wrote:
> >> Damn Gwen, don't mince words or anything.
> >> I will assume, from the above, that in your eyes, I
> >> am not trustworthy to rescue Boxers or make decisions
> >> on who gets to adopt them...having killed my own dog
> >> and all.
> > You're not the only one. After numerous training
> > classes, behavioral consultations, and hundreds
> > of dollars in vet bills, I killed my Dalmatian several
> > years ago due to extreme dog-aggressiveness.
> Did you have to pay for it, or did the local Animal
> Protection League, where you were board President
> while 70% of the animals coming in for rescue were
> being killed, give you a freebie?
> > Either she was going to kill Tasha, my Siberian
> > with the rock steady temperament, or Tasha was
> > going to kill her, right in front of us.
> > My DH's first dog, and still the canine love of his life.
> > Good thing that Gwen is perfect in her
> > stewardship of her animals.
> Gwen didn't murder her own dog.
> You and Tara O. did.
> michael
> live.. dogtv.comn
> > Mustang Sally
Sally Hennessey
> Probably because they grab on and WON'T let go.
> Not that they can lock their jaws...just that
> they won't let go of the chewie/arm/whatever.
I had a Dalmatian like that. Better ban Dals, huh?
Sally Hennessey
===========
YOU MURDERED YOUR OWN DEAD Dalmatian...
"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me. I volunteered
as assistant to the euthanasia tech at our local shelter
for a while, and I know a bit about overpopulation and
unwanted animals.
This however has nothing at all to do with responsible
breeders, because responsible breeders don't contribute
to that problem," Mustang Sally.
"Sally Hennessey" <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:54nuetsqgkhp26qqv...@4ax.com...
Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.
I'm starting to see some similarities here.
Sally Hennessey
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 13:23:46 +0100
Local: Mon, Apr 9 2001 5:23 am
Subject: Re: shock collars
Sally Hennessey <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:b8m1dtsv6vuiblo63...@4ax.com...
Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-righteous,
this post shows and absence of knowledge in the differences
in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps a lack of ability to perceive
same. The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to whom
corrections and discomfort, even pain, were unimportant does
not mean that such dogs do not exist.
What it means is that you don't know as much about dogs
as you think you do, and you surely don't know a damn
thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.
I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with one
of her housemates; that dog had no fear or anything,
and pain incurred during a fight meant nothing to her.
I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that you,
Alison, continue to say things to people such as what
you said to Theresa about causing her dog to suffer
(at least I guess that's what you meant by "you cause
your dog suffers" - - must be the King's English you
guys talk about over there) means that you are an
ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person who is not worth
further notice.
Sally Hennessey
From: sighthounds etc. <greypigho...@ncweb.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 10:34:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Another Rebellion Stage?
On Wed, 29 May 2002 09:03:13 -0500,
Gwen Watson <g...@ig.utexas.edu> wrote:
>> "sighthounds etc." wrote:IMO it is unwise (and
>> ultimately unfair to the dog) to leave something
>> as important (particularly to a breed like a BC)
>> as exercise and training to someone else (yes,
>> even a spouse, or perhaps especially a spouse)
>> unless there is proof, in the form of experience,
>> that that someone else will come through.
>> Sally Hennessey
>I mostly agree with you Sally about this. Certainly it is
>ideal for the person who owns the dog to be the
>one exercising and giving mental stimulation. But there
>are times in which a person is not physically able, which
>apparently seems to be the case, at that point I personally
>think it would be better to find another individual to help
>out rather than not doing anything at all.
It's true that circumstances do change, and people
can't do what they could before. Definitely it would
be better for someone to exercise the dog than no
one, and I didn't mean to suggest that if the owner
can't do it, then no one should. I meant that one
should not get a dog requiring lots of exercise and
mental stimulation if one cannot meet those needs.
IOW, Leah shouldn't have gotten a BC with the
understanding that her husband would take care
of the exercise and training needs.
However, Leah said that it was actually her husband
who wanted a BC, and he promised to exercise and
train her. I guess it depends on one's experience;
IME, I'm the one doing the training, so next time my
DH wants a Dalmatian and promises to train it, I won't
believe him.
Sally Hennessey
"My spayed Siberian bitch marks and covers all
over the place, as did my spayed Dalmatian bitch.
The Borzoi doesn't, but she is *extremely* submissive."
Sally Hennessey
"Oops, hit "send" too fast. Of course bitches in
season are advertising, so that type of behavior
might be typical of Murphy. And some folks think
that spaying actually increases dominant/aggressive
behavior in bitches that were dominant/aggressive
beforehand, so perhaps marking behavior also
increases in those bitches."
Sally Hennessey
I didn't mean to suggest that we don't love our
poop-eaters; of course, we do. If we were on
that show (The Secret Shame...), we would be
seen frantically dodging leaping Whippets trying
to plant kisses as close as possible to our mouths.
And I will admit that the night Robin barfed up poop,
he spent the night in his crate, not in bed with us.
Just couldn't chance a recurrence.
Sally Hennessey
Sighthounds etc." <greypigho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:2oo30vco39kba31kf...@4ax.com...
Dalmatian that would position himself behind
the Greyhounds and catch...Being a Dal, he
was sometimes a little harder to love to begin
with.
"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."
From: sionnach (rhyfe...@email.msn.com)
Subject: Re: Correct use of prong collar
Date: 2001-05-05 13:03:14 PST
> And Sally responded:
> >Who said that? I would never do or recommend
> >that, and neither would most of the regulars on here.
> >Sally Hennessey
> I've posted my entire quote, since Patch failed to do so.
> Take it out of context and you'd think I was flinging puppies
> across the room!
> here's what I said (keep in mind that we're talking about a
> 12 week old ~25# FCR puppy):
> A small scruff shake is appropriate if he's
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> very persistant.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Um, may I suggest a re-wording that might make
it clearer- given that "scruff shake" is too easily
misinterpreted as "pick the puppy up by the scruff
of the neck and shake the puppy in the air"?
I think I'd phrase it something like "if the puppy is very
persistant, it can be appropriate to take hold of the
loose skin at the back of the neck and give a slight
shake to the *skin*".
Janet's not talking about actually shaking
the puppy, which I think we ALL agree is
abusive."
"Marshall Dermer" <der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:a3h5qn$mra$1...@uwm.edu...
> Di,
> I don't believe you mentioned a particular kind of
> training. If you are interested in training retrieval
> behavior than do consider our own Amy Dahl's:
> The 10-Minute Retriever : How to Make a Well-
> Mannered, Obedient and Enthusiastic Gun Dog
> in 10 Minutes a Day by John I. Dahl, Amy Dahl
You failed to mention your pals the dahls are
proven liars and dog abusers, professor "SCRUFF SHAKE:"
"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog
I Do Not Believe There Is A Single Circumstance
Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is Anything But
Destructive," "I don't see why anyone would want
to choke or beat a dog, or how any trainer could
possibly get a good working dog by making them
unhapper, fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying
frosty dahl.
> just $17.95 at Amazon.com.
> (Also, it is best to killfile posts from the few
> regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
> ill-mannered, or just plain ill.)
> --Marshall
amy lying frosty dahl continues:
"On the other extreme, the really ard dogs
we have trained require much more frequent
and heavy application of pressure (PAIN j.h.)
to get the job done,
This is continued resistance to your increasing
authority, and the job is not done until it is overcome
Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper wield
the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them
more sharply
Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and
the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist!
Eventually, the dog will give in
but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their
efforts to escaping the ear pinch
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell
instead of your thumb even get a studded collar
and pinch the ear against that
Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so
urgent that resisting your will fades in importance.
CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever Ready
Right Hand, As it catches on, try using the stick
and no ear pinch.
When the dog is digging out to beat the stick
and seems totally reliable without any ear pinch,
you are finished
If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin,
say "No! Hold!"
(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps because
the ear is getting tender, or the dog has decided
it isn't worth it)" lying frosty dahl.
"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
professora gingold.
terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure."
lying frosty dahl sez she doesn't twist:
"None of my posts, prior to or subsequent to
Jerry Howe's attacks, encourage anyone to
twist ears, beat dogs, confront, intimidate,
frighten, or any of the crap he constantly
attributes to me," lying frosty dahl.
BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!
"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.
Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies
HURT all their lives like HOWE HOWER dog
lovers PREFER to HURT THEIR DOGS?
"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."
The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies
to SAVE THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE.
We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...
Sez on our FAQ'S pages at K9 Web you should
knee the dog in the chest, step on its toes, throw
him down by his ears and climb all over it like a
raped ape growling into his throat and bite IT on
his ears, or leash pop it on a pronged spiked pinch
choke collar or pop him in the snout with the heel
of your palm.
"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAau...@130.133.1.4...
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?
> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.
> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWWWAWHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918au...@130.133.1.4...
> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.
> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!.