chow kills child
Jack & Carolyn
Stormy wrote:
>
> I caught the tail end of this story on last night's
> CBS news. Apparently a chow and another dog attacked
> and killed a child over the weekend somewhere in the
> States. Did anyone catch the full report, or know where
> this ocurred and other details?
--
I only caught a piece of the report. I believe he was killed
in the owners back yard. I think he was visiting.
Carolyn
--------------------------------------------------
Dalmatians Everywhere......A Howl of a place......
Jack * Carolyn * Sparky * Yankee
darg...@worldnet.att.net
Kenneth Cain
Stormy wrote:
>
> I caught the tail end of this story on last night's
> CBS news. Apparently a chow and another dog attacked
> and killed a child over the weekend somewhere in the
> States. Did anyone catch the full report, or know where
> this ocurred and other details?
And you just couldn't wait to post it.
What is your point? Why didn't you get all the facts and details about
this story and post it. Why wasn't the breed of the other dog mentioned
and where were the child's parents? Why don't you blame the dog's
owners.
How can you be so short sighted.
You are like the bigot who says "A black man robbed and killed someone
so let's get rid of all the blacks". It should be apparent to everyone
that you are a bigot. Has life treated you so unfairly that you are
bitter and angry and you feel compelled to lash out at something.
Why do you feel a need to attack the Chow.
Why do you attack the breed instead of the dog and the dog's owner?
The truth is your breed was probably defeated in a best of show by
a Chow and your little ego just couldn't stand it.
Why do you insist on exhibiting such deviant behavior?
Have you considered getting professional help?
Certainly this was a tragic event and I'm not trying to minimize it.
We live in a dangerous world and people are killed everyday.
More children are abused and killed by their parents, drunk drivers
drive by shootings...and the list goes on, than by all the dog breeds
in the world put together. Yet you chose to attack the Chow as breed
and not the real problems. Are you that unconscious?
Do you think that Chows are the real problem? Do you think that if
The Chow was eliminated everything would be just fine? Do you even
think?
Quit acting like a "fish wife". Get your own thinking straight.
Then try to contribute something positive and constructive to the NG
if you're able.
Quite frankly, I appreciate the posts by people like you and
dogma...@aol.com
It shows a real need for us serious dog owners to come together
as a group.
To form a united front in order to protect our interest's in dogs
of all breeds. To educate those people who are able to think and learn.
And to defend ourselves against those who can't.
Ken
Cindy Greene
Lisa K. Baird <lba...@infinet.com> wrote in article
<56sbm7$a...@news1.infinet.com>...
> Stormy (sto...@nr.infi.net) wrote:
> : I caught the tail end of this story on last night's
> : CBS news. Apparently a chow and another dog attacked
> : and killed a child over the weekend somewhere in the
> : States. Did anyone catch the full report, or know where
> : this ocurred and other details?
>
> The incident (if its the one I saw on the local news) occurred in
> Hamilton, Oh. and the child was the 7 year old nephew of the home/dog
> owners, who was visiting with his family for a baby shower. Apparently,
> his uncle (dog owner) told the child not to go near the dogs, who were
> chained in a fenced back yard.
>
> As of yesterday's (Monday) morning news reports, it was uncertain which
of
> the 2 dogs (a Chow and a Siberian, although I don't know why it matters),
> or if both were the attackers. IMO, however, any adults p[resent, who
> were responsible for the child and the dogs, are the ones to be faulted.
> C'mon! You tell a 7 year old boy to stay away from the dogs, who are in
> the backyard of the home he's at, and then expect him to LISTEN??? First
> thing he's going to do is want to play with the dogs!! Why was he not
> supervised? It is a tragedy, but one that could have been averted, with
> adult supervision.
>
>
> --
> _____________________________________________________
> Lisa Baird "Visit our Home Page to see the Haleakala PWD's doing
> Haleakala PWD's what they do best, being cute! Also have a look at
> Dublin, Oh. the Haleakala Crater!"
> lba...@infinet.com http://www.infinet.com/~lbaird/
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
Thank you Lisa for the information. Stormy just likes to incite chow lovers
with sensationalism.
Such a post is bound to draw commentary.
Specifically when the post has such an inflammatory subject line and does
not have any facts!!!!
Chow chow for now!
Cindy
--
Cindy Greene
Information Systems Administrator
Hampshire College
c...@hampshire.edu
*************************************************************
******* My opinions are mine and mine alone! ********
************************************************************
Lisa K. Baird
bob...@aol.com
In article <56sbm7$a...@news1.infinet.com>, lba...@infinet.com (Lisa K.
Baird) writes:
>The incident (if its the one I saw on the local news) occurred in
>Hamilton, Oh. and the child was the 7 year old nephew of the home/dog
>owners, who was visiting with his family for a baby shower. Apparently,
>his uncle (dog owner) told the child not to go near the dogs, who were
>chained in a fenced back yard.
Another sad case of a parent not properly supervising their child.
Bob Maida
Manassas,Va
Douglas Tricarico
Now _that_ was straight out of Overreaction City, Mr. Cain.
In <329112...@txdirect.net> Kenneth Cain <ke...@txdirect.net>
writes:
>
>Stormy wrote:
>>
>> I caught the tail end of this story on last night's
>> CBS news. Apparently a chow and another dog attacked
>> and killed a child over the weekend somewhere in the
>> States. Did anyone catch the full report, or know where
>> this ocurred and other details?
>
jgrape
More than that, another case of an ignorant, irresponsible moron
CHAINING his 2 dogs up. I doubt that either dog had any socialization
or obedience training. Keeping dogs on chains is asking for tragedies
like this to happen. Some people should never be allowed to own a
stuffed dog, much less a live one.
M. Welch
Ken M.
bob...@aol.com wrote:
>
> Another sad case of a parent not properly supervising their child.
>
> Bob Maida
> Manassas,Va
You're right, Bob -- next week it may read, "Child Kills Chow!"
(Ken)
--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Hungry men and women cannot wait for economic discussions or
diplomatic meetings -- and their hunger rests heavily on the
consciences of their fellow men."
President John F. Kennedy
The Carroll's
And not just that the kid wasn't supervised--the dogs were tied up. Come
on, what's gonna happen when you tie this kind of dog up? I know spitz are
prone to being mean when tied (not saying other breeds aren't, but they
seem to get worse than others...) We all know what happens when dogs are
tied instead of fenced, right? They get aggressive! Emily
gregh
On 19-Nov-96 00:19:56, Stormy assaulted me about chow kills child
S> I caught the tail end of this story on last night's
S> CBS news. Apparently a chow and another dog attacked
S> and killed a child over the weekend somewhere in the
S> States. Did anyone catch the full report, or know where
S> this ocurred and other details?
The heading says it all.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Sysop of Amiga's Sci-Fi BBS gr...@fl.net.au |
|Are you old when you enjoy a good headbanger record with others over 40?|
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lisa K. Baird
gregh (gr...@fl.net.au) wrote:
: On 19-Nov-96 00:19:56, Stormy assaulted me about chow kills child
: S> I caught the tail end of this story on last night's
: S> CBS news. Apparently a chow and another dog attacked
: S> and killed a child over the weekend somewhere in the
: S> States. Did anyone catch the full report, or know where
: S> this ocurred and other details?
: The heading says it all.
I'm the one who responded with further info on the story, since it
occured not far from here, but wondered about the whole point of the
post!? Why was this individual interested in it? Does he/she have a child
somehwere they thought might be involved? Or is it just morbid curiosity
about someone elses tragedy?
: ------------------------------------------------------------------------
: |Sysop of Amiga's Sci-Fi BBS gr...@fl.net.au |
: |Are you old when you enjoy a good headbanger record with others over 40?|
: ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bryan Hinkle
jgrape (jgr...@roanoke.infi.net) wrote:
: More than that, another case of an ignorant, irresponsible moron
: CHAINING his 2 dogs up. I doubt that either dog had any socialization
: or obedience training. Keeping dogs on chains is asking for tragedies
: like this to happen. Some people should never be allowed to own a
: stuffed dog, much less a live one.
: M. Welch
Absolute ,complete and totally unmitigated BULLSHIT. Keeping a
dog on a properly set up chain rig has nothing to do with what you
claim. Not to mention the fact that the dogs in question were in
a pen/kennel and there was NO mention of them being chained.
Do this. Calculate the square footage available to as dog on
a 20 foot chain ,now calculate the footage in a 6 x 12 kennel.
There are tens of thousands of hounds and other dogs kept on
properly set up chain rigs all across this country and indeed
the world with no incident and your reiteration of the ancient
wives tale that " putting a dog on a chain make him mean" doesn't
make that wives tale true.
B.
Kenneth Cain
Douglas Tricarico wrote:
>
> Now _that_ was straight out of Overreaction City, Mr. Cain.
>
> In <329112...@txdirect.net> Kenneth Cain <ke...@txdirect.net>
> writes:
> >
> >Stormy wrote:
> >>
> >You are like the bigot who says "A black man robbed and killed
> someone
> >so let's get rid of all the blacks". It should be apparent to everyone
> >that you are a bigot.
Maybe so Doug, Maybe so.
Care to comment on this??
Subject: Re: Are all McDonald's employees STUPID MORONS?????
From: sto...@nr.infi.net (Stormy)
Date: 1996/04/11
Message-Id: <4kje32$v...@nw002.infi.net>
References: <315B6B...@alau.edu>
<4jsodn$s...@news.ccit.arizona.edu> <4jues9$s...@freenet-News.carleton.ca>
Organization: Customer of InfiNet
Mime-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: alt.food.mcdonalds,alt.mcdonalds
> the people who work there are just as stupid and lazy.
Down here in the South, 99% of the fast-food workers are nigras-making
the above statement double true.
> That is why it works so well together, the people are lazy and cheep(why
else would they eat that greasy fetid burger), and the people who work
there make chump change because they are not smart enough to get a real
job.
So what's the problem?
Tami Underwood
>bob...@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> Another sad case of a parent not properly supervising their child.
>>
>> Bob Maida
>> Manassas,Va
I would have to say Bob is right on this one...
Here's the article that appeared in The Morning Journal Lorain. Ohio
Officals destroy killer dog
Hamilton, Ohio(AP)
A dog who mauled a 7 year old boy to death was destroyed yesterday at
the Butler County Animal Shelter.
Jean Girten, a trustee of the Humane Association of Butler County,
said authorities knew the male Siberian husky was involved in
Saturday's attack because the dog had blood on him.
Authorities are investigating whether a second dog, a chow, also bit
the child.
Ethan Fricke died after being mauled in the back yard of Nick and
Susan Toon, his uncle and aunt.
While the rest of the family was inside the home for a baby shower,
the boy entered the FENCED area in the back yard.
End
gregh
On 21-Nov-96 01:58:24, Bryan Hinkle assaulted me about Re: chow kills child
BH> jgrape (jgr...@roanoke.infi.net) wrote:
BH>: More than that, another case of an ignorant, irresponsible moron
BH>: CHAINING his 2 dogs up. I doubt that either dog had any
BH>: socialization or obedience training. Keeping dogs on chains is
BH>: asking for tragedies like this to happen. Some people should never
BH>: be allowed to own a stuffed dog, much less a live one.
BH>: M. Welch
BH>
BH> Absolute ,complete and totally unmitigated BULLSHIT. Keeping a
BH> dog on a properly set up chain rig has nothing to do with what you
Absolute ignorant CRAP! Ask yourself if YOU would be happy or not go a
little crazy on a chain all day every day. If you think YOU would be
affectred, what on EARTH makes you think DOGS wont? After all, they may not
be as intelligent as adult humans - and sometimes you have to wonder THAT
about some people - but they ARE more intelligent than your average 3 year
old child, as adult dogs. ANY normal adult dog, that is.
BH> the world with no incident and your reiteration of the ancient
BH> wives tale that " putting a dog on a chain make him mean" doesn't
BH> make that wives tale true.
You just have NO idea do you?
gregh
On 20-Nov-96 23:27:42, Lisa K. Baird assaulted me about Re: Stormy kills
credibility and hates CHOWS
LKB>: S> I caught the tail end of this story on last night's
LKB>: S> CBS news. Apparently a chow and another dog attacked
LKB>: S> and killed a child over the weekend somewhere in the
LKB>: S> States. Did anyone catch the full report, or know where
LKB>: S> this ocurred and other details?
LKB>: The heading says it all.
LKB> I'm the one who responded with further info on the story, since it
LKB> occured not far from here, but wondered about the whole point of the
LKB> post!? Why was this individual interested in it? Does he/she have a
LKB> child somehwere they thought might be involved? Or is it just morbid
LKB> curiosity about someone elses tragedy?
Lisa,
He hates Chows. That is all the problem is and he is determined to spread
crap about them while trying to put over as if he knows ANYTHING about
dogs. Obviously he doesnt know a real lot.
dogma...@aol.com
Chow strikes again, huh?
:)
bky...@vixa.voyager.net
What do you consider to be a properly set up chain rig?
Thanks. C.
Nancy E. Holmes
In <329248...@roanoke.infi.net> jgrape <jgr...@roanoke.infi.net>
writes:
>
snip bob's reply
>
>More than that, another case of an ignorant, irresponsible moron
>or obedience training. Keeping dogs on chains is asking for tragedies
>like this to happen. Some people should never be allowed to own a
>
YES! I was gonna say that too!
Nancy
Bryan Hinkle
gregh (gr...@fl.net.au) wrote:
: Absolute ignorant CRAP! Ask yourself if YOU would be happy or not go a
: little crazy on a chain all day every day. If you think YOU would be
: affectred, what on EARTH makes you think DOGS wont? After all, they may not
: be as intelligent as adult humans - and sometimes you have to wonder THAT
: about some people - but they ARE more intelligent than your average 3 year
: old child, as adult dogs. ANY normal adult dog, that is.
Yes YOU are spouting absolute ignorant CRAP. Not to mention
anthromorphising beyond belief. You quite obviously know very
little of dogs beyond your own pet. I've kept dogs on chains for
many years with ZERO thats once again ZERO ill effect. I've known
quite literally dozens of dogmen of various types who have kept
entire packs on chains for DECADES with ZERO thats once again ZERO
ill effect.
: BH> the world with no incident and your reiteration of the ancient
: BH> wives tale that " putting a dog on a chain make him mean" doesn't
: BH> make that wives tale true.
: You just have NO idea do you?
Reread what I wrote above. You are absolutely and totally clueless
in this particular matter. Tell me would you rather have dogs running
loose than on a chain? And do you consider a kennel (with less square
footage than your average chain rig) cruel? Are you one of these FOOLS
who have decided that any form of confinement is cruel? Or are you just
another person brainwashed into believing that someone exercising enough
responsibility to keep their damn dog at home is being cruel?
Tell the average sled dog enthusiast or houndsmen or APBT owner
not to keep their dogs on chains or cables ,yes please do. Tell them
how they should just turn them ALL loose together so they can romp and
play ( this is SARCASM in case you can't figure it out).
AND all this is completely ASIDE from the FACT that the dogs involved
in the incident in question WERE NOT ON CHAINS the WERE IN A KENNEL.
Get back to me when you know what the hell you're talking
about.
B.
Kenneth Cain
gregh wrote:
>
> On 21-Nov-96 01:58:24, Bryan Hinkle assaulted me about Re: chow kills child
> BH>
> BH> Absolute ,complete and totally unmitigated BULLSHIT. Keeping a
> BH> dog on a properly set up chain rig has nothing to do with what you
>
> Absolute ignorant CRAP! Ask yourself if YOU would be happy or not go a
> little crazy on a chain all day every day. If you think YOU would be
> affectred, what on EARTH makes you think DOGS wont? After all, they may not
> be as intelligent as adult humans - and sometimes you have to wonder THAT
> about some people - but they ARE more intelligent than your average 3 year
> old child, as adult dogs. ANY normal adult dog, that is.
>
> BH> the world with no incident and your reiteration of the ancient
> BH> wives tale that " putting a dog on a chain make him mean" doesn't
> BH> make that wives tale true.
>
> You just have NO idea do you?
Gee Greg,
Where do all these dog "experts" come from?
It sounds like BH is a graduate of Stormy and dogma...@aol.com's
Charm and Finishing School.
You ever notice how easy is to tell when someone is speaking from their
heart and how obvious it is when they are speaking from their hate.
Chow
Ken
Lisa K. Baird
Bryan Hinkle (blue...@netcom.com) wrote:
:
: AND all this is completely ASIDE from the FACT that the dogs involved
: in the incident in question WERE NOT ON CHAINS the WERE IN A KENNEL.
Does your server not receive articles in the proper order? as I said in
another subject, there was no kennel, a chain and fenced yard.
Lisa K. Baird
Bryan Hinkle (blue...@netcom.com) wrote:
: claim. Not to mention the fact that the dogs in question were in
: a pen/kennel and there was NO mention of them being chained.
Excuse me, but you are incorrect. The dogs were in a fenced yard, and
chained in addition. The child went into the yard with them. I believe I
*did* state this in my post. Although I am not the one who got into pros
and cons of chaining dogs.
E.Boucher&G.Berry
i didn't save lisa's post but i clearly recall mention that the dogs
were chained and inside a fenced area and the child had been told to
stay away from the dogs. this seems to be another tragic situation that
adult supervision could have averted.
Bryan Hinkle
Lisa K. Baird (lba...@infinet.com) wrote:
: Does your server not receive articles in the proper order? as I said in
: another subject, there was no kennel, a chain and fenced yard.
Lisa,
Then POST any VALID info you have ,I've now heard several
different versions ,from the dog was kenneled ,to the dog was kenneled
and chained ,to the dog was in the fenced yard and now your latest
version that the dog was chained in a fenced yard.
The whole incident was quite obviously a case of HUMAN error in
supervision ,that makes it no less tragic. BUT to blame this incident
on the breed of dog OR on the fact that the dog was chained is foolish
at best and to extrapolate that ALL dogs kept on chains are people
aggressive OR that this is what caused the dog in question to BE
human aggressive is ludicrous.
I can show you kennel yards FULL of dogs on chains which you can
walk freely through *as a stranger* and not face any aggressive action
from the canines involved.
Quite simply GREGH made a blanket statement which is patently and
provably false. He reiterated ( regurgitated?) an old wives tale which
people all across the country disprove on a DAILY basis.
B.
Bryan Hinkle
Kenneth Cain (ke...@txdirect.net) wrote:
: Gee Greg,
: Where do all these dog "experts" come from?
Yes where DID you come from ,and what makes YOU an expert Bubba.
: It sounds like BH is a graduate of Stormy and dogma...@aol.com's
: Charm and Finishing School.
Really. I answwered in kind no more no less.
: You ever notice how easy is to tell when someone is speaking from th eir
: heart and how obvious it is when they are speaking from their hate.
And EXACTLY where do you get HATE from? Have I said ANYTHING whatsoever
derogatory about the breed of dog involved NO and if you think so I invite
you to show me EXACTLY WHERE. GregH obviously knows very little of where
he speaks in reference to the subject of keeping dogs on a chain. You both
will quite obviously sidestep the issue when called on this in favor of a
personal flame war.
As far as the whole incident goes it was quite evident that it was an
issue of lack of supervision on the part of the adults that should have
been in control of the situation. Your perpetuation of the MYTH that
chaining any dog will make them instantly "mean" doesn't change that
in the least ,just as your caterwauling doesn't make it any less a myth.
B.
Bryan Hinkle
gregh (gr...@fl.net.au) wrote:
: Certainly not from MY bum but their ideas are just as full of shit! ;-}
Really? Why don't you give me some substantive evidence of this
give me some substantive evidence of your assertion that chaining any
dog is a surefire way to make them "mean".
: What makes you think they WENT to school? UNFOUNDED ALLEGATION! ;-}
Is this your best shot? Try again Bubba.
: Yep. One talks like they know what they are talking about - eg, those
: knowing no entire breed should be exterminated - and one talks like they
: have too much of a handheld sex life - the one that thinks an entire breed
: SHOULD be exterminate. ;-}
You really ARE a jackass aren't you? Point out WHERE I have at any
time stated ANYTHING derogatory about the breed of dog involved in this
incident. Point out EXACTLY WHERE I've stated EVER that an entire breed
should be exterminated. You CAN'T because I've NEVER stated that EVER
and in fact have defended Chows on occasion just as vociferously as any
other breed.
My beef with YOU is your mistaken assumption that ALL dogs kept on
chain rigs are made immediately people aggressive BY being kept on a
chain rig. This assumption is patently false and provably so on a daily
basis by thousands of people across this country.
B.
Lisa K. Baird
Bryan Hinkle (blue...@netcom.com) wrote:
: Then POST any VALID info you have ,I've now heard several
: different versions ,from the dog was kenneled ,to the dog was kenneled
: and chained ,to the dog was in the fenced yard and now your latest
: version that the dog was chained in a fenced yard.
Idid so several days ago, under the "Chow kills child" thread, that's why
I ask about your server, perhaps its having problems?
: The whole incident was quite obviously a case of HUMAN error in
: supervision ,that makes it no less tragic. BUT to blame this incident
: on the breed of dog OR on the fact that the dog was chained is foolish
Which is precisely what I stated in my post. Please read the posts,
before you slam them.
Bryan Hinkle
gregh (gr...@fl.net.au) wrote:
: OOOOO such a hurtful arty comeback. OOOOHHH dont display your wit so
: BLINDINGLY!
Oh I see. Instead of discussing dogs you wish to engage in rhetorical
combat? Is this your method of accenting your gonads?
: The point of disbelief is that you own a disctionary to find that word to
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The point of disbelief is that you dally with word flames without
bothering to check your own.
: be honest. Yes I have had enough. People like you who think dogs have no
: problems being locked on chains all day should be made to endure the same
: and see what happens to you. A normal intelligent adult dog is more
: intelligent than a 3 year old human child and dogs ALSO have feelings and
: react to human moods and how they are treated/mistreated. To think
: otherwise betrays no IDEA how to handle dogs.
Excuse me? And exactly where do YOU get this from? Many here
and in the REAL world will disagree with your assumption that I know
nothing of how to handle canines. You're blowing smoke to obfuscate
the issue.
: No, nothing at all, mate. Nothing. That is why I can approach dogs I dont
: know and not get bitten - because I know nothing about them. If you havre
Many people can approach non-biting dogs and not get bitten ,exactly
HOW does the above PROVE any significant knowledge of canines in general
or dogs kept on a chain rig in particular.
: PROOF of me not knowing about animals, where is it? You are making claims
: without substance or proof. Such claims are only fart gas - they are
: noticeable but only warn of impending SHIT.
Maybe you should rearead what YOU wrote above ,it applies EXACTLY to
you and your erroneous statements on this subject.
: So you say but then again you think dogs are OK to be put on chains day in
: day out
Thats EXACTLY what I'm stating ,that dogs CAAN be kept on chain
systems rather than in kennelas with NO ill effect whatsoever.
: SURE you have. Then again, my father was a drover of stock from outback
: Queensland who depended on the dogs he worked with and to do the same, had
: to ensure they were treated as well as possible. He knew - and taught me
: and later PROVED to me because people near us kept THEIR dogs on chains -
: that it is detrimental for the dog for varying reasons.
Thats correct YES I have. And YES your father taught you incorrectly
not to mention that HERDING dogs by their very nature don't need to be
kept that way ,though I HAVE seen Heelers ,Kelpies ,B.C. CataHoulas etc
kept chained when NOT working with ocne again ZERO ill effect.
: Given the choice between your claims and the experience of a man who worked
: with them for a living in the 1930s-1940s, you lose.
Not claims my boy FACT. And given the the basis for YOUR claims and
your lack of substantive proof YOU lose. Sorry but...."Daddy told me so
it must be true.".............doesn't wash.
: When you have a CLUE how to decently treat a dog, you will KNOW what I mean
: without needing it to be explained to you. Until then, you wont believe
: anything other than your own point of view.
Gad but you're a hypocrite aren't you. See when you make a blanket
statement categorising ALL people who keep a dog on a chain as heathens
and ALL dogs kept on chains as human-aggressive you'll get called on
said statement.
As for MY DOGS ,wellllll there are people present here who KNOW me
and KNOW EXACTLY HOW I TREAT MY ANIMALS AND THE RESUE ANIMALS I FOSTER
they are laughing their collective asses off at you right now.
See rather than discuss the ISSUE you'd rather make accusatory and
unprovable statements in an attempt to sidetrack attention from the fact
that you don't KNOW whereof you speak.
B.
Bryan Hinkle
Lisa K. Baird (lba...@infinet.com) wrote:
: Which is precisely what I stated in my post. Please read the posts,
: before you slam them.
Excuse Me? Show a case of me 'slamming" any of your posts Lisa.
The post that I "slammed" was the inflammatory one of GregH's that
indicated that the incident was caused by the dog being kept on a
chain ,if indeed it was kept on a chain ,which still seems to be up
in the air at the moment.
I've seen more than one human aggressive dog that *should have
been* chained before it bit someone. As for chain rigs being
inherently "cruel" most of that assumption is based on anthromorphisation
and not on reality. The basic reality of the situation is that there
is far more freedom of movement and far more actual space for the dog
on a 20 foot chain rig ( never mind a ground cable and chain setup)
than there is in the average size chain-link type kennel , one has
only to get out a calculator and do the math to figure this out.
In the particular incident in question it seems *more*
responsiblity was exercised in keeping the animal in question
chained as opposed to loose. Too bad they didn't exercise
adequate supervision of both child and dog involved.
Furthermore for GregH and Ken Cain to extrapolate by some altogether
unfathomable manner that *I* called for elimination of *any* breed of
dog is laughable at best and hysterically ludicrous otherwise as any
person who has been in r.p.d.* et al for any length of time would
know.
As far as human aggressive dogs go .........I don't tolerate them
not in my personal dogs and not in dogs I do rescue with. I have no
need of a human aggressive dog and I have less need of the liabilities
and media hyperbole caused when some idiots dog who bites indiscrimately
creates an incident ,and thats *regardless of breed involved*.
Most dog problems aren't dog problems per se' but instead
*human problems*........
B.
Lisa K. Baird
Bryan Hinkle (blue...@netcom.com) wrote:
: Lisa K. Baird (lba...@infinet.com) wrote:
: : Does your server not receive articles in the proper order? as I said in
: : another subject, there was no kennel, a chain and fenced yard.
:
: Lisa,
:
:
: Then POST any VALID info you have ,I've now heard several
Which I did...
: supervision ,that makes it no less tragic. BUT to blame this incident :
on the breed of dog OR on the fact that the dog was chained is foolish
Which I NEVER did...
: at best and to extrapolate that ALL dogs kept on chains are people
: aggressive OR that this is what caused the dog in question to BE
: human aggressive is ludicrous. :
WHich I never did...
sorry, but aiming these remarks at me, I consider a "slam". I saw anote,
I replied with the facts I had at hand. Period.
Lisa K. Baird
Bryan Hinkle (blue...@netcom.com) wrote:
:
:
: Then POST any VALID info you have ,I've now heard several
: and chained ,to the dog was in the fenced yard and now your latest
I have retrieved my first note for you (below). I will check the papers, to
see what more recent info may have been reported.
From lba...@infinet.comThu Nov 21 13:01:07 1996
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:00:42 -0500 (EST)
From: "Lisa K. Baird" <lba...@infinet.com>
To: lba...@infinet.com
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.breeds
Subject: (fwd) Re: chow kills child
Path: news.infinet.com!lbaird
From: lba...@infinet.com (Lisa K. Baird)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.breeds
Subject: Re: chow kills child
Date: 19 Nov 1996 13:11:35 GMT
Organization: InfiNet
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <56sbm7$a...@news1.infinet.com>
References: <56prac$j...@nw101.infi.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: user2.infinet.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Stormy (sto...@nr.infi.net) wrote:
: I caught the tail end of this story on last night's
: CBS news. Apparently a chow and another dog attacked
: and killed a child over the weekend somewhere in the
: States. Did anyone catch the full report, or know where
: this ocurred and other details?
The incident (if its the one I saw on the local news) occurred in
Hamilton, Oh. and the child was the 7 year old nephew of the home/dog
owners, who was visiting with his family for a baby shower. Apparently,
his uncle (dog owner) told the child not to go near the dogs, who were
chained in a fenced back yard.
As of yesterday's (Monday) morning news reports, it was uncertain which of
the 2 dogs (a Chow and a Siberian, although I don't know why it matters),
or if both were the attackers. IMO, however, any adults p[resent, who
were responsible for the child and the dogs, are the ones to be faulted.
C'mon! You tell a 7 year old boy to stay away from the dogs, who are in
the backyard of the home he's at, and then expect him to LISTEN??? First
thing he's going to do is want to play with the dogs!! Why was he not
supervised? It is a tragedy, but one that could have been averted, with
adult supervision.
Kenneth Cain
Bryan Hinkle wrote:
>
*snip*
>
> I can show you kennel yards FULL of dogs on chains which you can
> walk freely through *as a stranger* and not face any aggressive action
> from the canines involved.
>
> Quite simply GREGH made a blanket statement which is patently and
> provably false. He reiterated ( regurgitated?) an old wives tale which
> people all across the country disprove on a DAILY basis.
Why don't you give us some facts that can be verified to prove you case.
Just because you say it doesn't prove anything
BTW, I'm curious as to why these dogs are kept chained in the first
place. If they are not human aggressive then they must be animal
aggressive.
What's wrong with a large fenced yard. Are these dogs used for
fighting? I know of many Pitts here locally on a short chain and given
no attention that are plenty mean.
Kenneth Cain
Bryan Hinkle wrote:
*Snip*
> Furthermore for GregH and Ken Cain to extrapolate by some altogether
> unfathomable manner that *I* called for elimination of *any* breed of
> dog is laughable at best and hysterically ludicrous otherwise as any
> person who has been in r.p.d.* et al for any length of time would
> know.
Bryan, I don't recall either Greg or me saying that you called for
elimination
of *any* breed of dog. I think you may have taken some of our remarks
aimed at dogman1956.aol.com and Stormy personally.
> As far as human aggressive dogs go .........I don't tolerate them
> not in my personal dogs and not in dogs I do rescue with. I have no
> need of a human aggressive dog and I have less need of the liabilities
> and media hyperbole caused when some idiots dog who bites indiscrimately
> creates an incident ,and thats *regardless of breed involved*.
>
> Most dog problems aren't dog problems per se' but instead
> *human problems*........
>
> B.
Thanks Bryan,
I agree with your last statement 100%. Could we come up with ways to
combat
these *human problems* instead of getting caught up in this petty
bickering
that we all seem to do from time to time.
Best
Ken
Kenneth Cain
gregh wrote:
>
> On 21-Nov-96 12:54:41, Bryan Hinkle assaulted me about Re: dogman hates
> CHOWS!
>
> BH> anthromorphising beyond belief.
Hey Bryan, Not me. I love dogs because they are not human.
The more people I meet the more I prefer hanging out with my dogs.
There are exceptions of course.
I suspect Greg feels the same way.
KC
gregh
On 21-Nov-96 10:11:20, dogman1956 assaulted me about Re: Stormy kills
credibility and hates CHOWS
d> Chow strikes again, huh?
d> :)
As opposed to "ALL Chows should be erradicated" from you and stormy? Lucky
you two arent in a position of responsibility. I sriously doubt you have a
THING to do with dogs.
gregh
On 21-Nov-96 20:38:32, Kenneth Cain assaulted me about Re: dogman hates
CHOWS!
>>
>> On 21-Nov-96 01:58:24, Bryan Hinkle assaulted me about Re: chow kills
>> child
>> BH>
>> BH> Absolute ,complete and totally unmitigated BULLSHIT. Keeping a
>> BH> dog on a properly set up chain rig has nothing to do with what you
>>
>> Absolute ignorant CRAP! Ask yourself if YOU would be happy or not go a
>> little crazy on a chain all day every day. If you think YOU would be
>> affectred, what on EARTH makes you think DOGS wont? After all, they may
>> not be as intelligent as adult humans - and sometimes you have to wonder
>> THAT about some people - but they ARE more intelligent than your average
>> 3 year old child, as adult dogs. ANY normal adult dog, that is.
>>
>> BH> the world with no incident and your reiteration of the ancient
>> BH> wives tale that " putting a dog on a chain make him mean" doesn't
>> BH> make that wives tale true.
>>
>> You just have NO idea do you?
KC>
KC> Gee Greg,
KC> Where do all these dog "experts" come from?
Kenneth,
Certainly not from MY bum but their ideas are just as full of shit! ;-}
KC> It sounds like BH is a graduate of Stormy and dogma...@aol.com's
KC> Charm and Finishing School.
What makes you think they WENT to school? UNFOUNDED ALLEGATION! ;-}
KC> You ever notice how easy is to tell when someone is speaking from
KC> their heart and how obvious it is when they are speaking from their
KC> hate.
Yep. One talks like they know what they are talking about - eg, those
knowing no entire breed should be exterminated - and one talks like they
have too much of a handheld sex life - the one that thinks an entire breed
SHOULD be exterminate. ;-}
gregh
On 21-Nov-96 12:54:41, Bryan Hinkle assaulted me about Re: dogman hates
CHOWS!
BH>: Absolute ignorant CRAP! Ask yourself if YOU would be happy or not go
BH>: a little crazy on a chain all day every day. If you think YOU would
BH>: be affectred, what on EARTH makes you think DOGS wont? After all,
BH>: they may not be as intelligent as adult humans - and sometimes you
BH>: have to wonder THAT about some people - but they ARE more intelligent
BH>: than your average 3 year old child, as adult dogs. ANY normal adult
BH>: dog, that is.
BH>
BH>
BH> Yes YOU are spouting absolute ignorant CRAP. Not to mention
OOOOO such a hurtful arty comeback. OOOOHHH dont display your wit so
BLINDINGLY!
BH> anthromorphising beyond belief. You quite obviously know very
The point of disbelief is that you own a disctionary to find that word to
be honest. Yes I have had enough. People like you who think dogs have no
problems being locked on chains all day should be made to endure the same
and see what happens to you. A normal intelligent adult dog is more
intelligent than a 3 year old human child and dogs ALSO have feelings and
react to human moods and how they are treated/mistreated. To think
otherwise betrays no IDEA how to handle dogs.
BH> little of dogs beyond your own pet. I've kept dogs on chains for
No, nothing at all, mate. Nothing. That is why I can approach dogs I dont
know and not get bitten - because I know nothing about them. If you havre
PROOF of me not knowing about animals, where is it? You are making claims
without substance or proof. Such claims are only fart gas - they are
noticeable but only warn of impending SHIT.
BH> many years with ZERO thats once again ZERO ill effect. I've known
So you say but then again you think dogs are OK to be put on chains day in
day out and THAT is just CRAP so how can we believe THIS claim?
BH> quite literally dozens of dogmen of various types who have kept
BH> entire packs on chains for DECADES with ZERO thats once again ZERO
BH> ill effect.
SURE you have. Then again, my father was a drover of stock from outback
Queensland who depended on the dogs he worked with and to do the same, had
to ensure they were treated as well as possible. He knew - and taught me
and later PROVED to me because people near us kept THEIR dogs on chains -
that it is detrimental for the dog for varying reasons.
Given the choice between your claims and the experience of a man who worked
with them for a living in the 1930s-1940s, you lose.
When you have a CLUE how to decently treat a dog, you will KNOW what I mean
without needing it to be explained to you. Until then, you wont believe
anything other than your own point of view.
Carol Dunster
I'd like to see more parental education and possibly legal
responsibility (if there is negligence proven). I know that the
parents must be really hurting, but I am angry that they could be so
careless. I suspect most of the people that I am familiar with on this
group pay more attention to their dogs than many people do to their
children. I get really frustrated at some of my neighbors because of
the lack of supervision of their children!
Carol and the Carwyn Silkys
On 19 Nov 1996 22:04:05 GMT, bob...@aol.com wrote:
>In article <56sbm7$a...@news1.infinet.com>, lba...@infinet.com (Lisa K.
>Baird) writes:
>
>>The incident (if its the one I saw on the local news) occurred in
>>Hamilton, Oh. and the child was the 7 year old nephew of the home/dog
>>owners, who was visiting with his family for a baby shower. Apparently,
>>his uncle (dog owner) told the child not to go near the dogs, who were
>>chained in a fenced back yard.
>
Carol Dunster
On 22 Nov 96 00:21:44 +1000, gr...@fl.net.au (gregh) wrote:
>
>On 21-Nov-96 12:54:41, Bryan Hinkle assaulted me about Re: dogman hates
>CHOWS!
I must say that my stance on Chows is neutral - I have not trouble
reading the body language of the couple that I groom and we get along
well, even though that particular pair are unsocialized farm dogs - a
tad timid, but not mean.
I am getting a little tired of all attitude and no organization on the
part of some of the people discussing this issue. I suppose that
gr...@fl.net.au doesn't care about my opinion, but he is NOT winning
any converts to his cause by his inflammatory rhetoric and
disorganized arguments. I particularly am getting tired of the "xxxx
assaulted me about" reply header. Is this supposed to be cute? I find
it annoying and no longer actually read these posts. It is too obvious
that I will only read emotion and not any rational thought.
And I am basically on his side on the issue!
jfrc...@aol.com
Kenneth Cain writes:
:BTW, I'm curious as to why these dogs are kept
:chained in the first place. If they are not human
:aggressive then they must be animal aggressive.
Almost all dogs are aggressive to some kind of
animal or other.
:What's wrong with a large fenced yard.
Nothing is wrong with a large fenced yard.
:Are these dogs used for fighting? I know
:of many Pitts here locally on a short chain
:and given no attention that are plenty mean.
Short chains would make any dog of any breed
either surly or despondent. It sounds like the
Pit Bulls near you are owned by newbies who
learned all they know about keeping "fighting
dogs" from the HSUS and the six o'clock news.
JohnR
gregh
On 22-Nov-96 02:41:23, Bryan Hinkle assaulted me about Re: dogman hates
CHOWS!
That's it Bryan. Let me say that, in the past, I have been mildly
derogatory of ANYONE who killed messages from another person based solely
upon an argument with them. Of course, if the messages were just derogatory
and calling names of one sort or another, I had no beef. The problem here
is that *YOU* dont see sense in anything other than your own comments and
continue on that path. dogman1956 (I think the number is) hates Chows and
that much is obvious but at least in replying to me, I have noted he/she
(sorry dogman, I have no idea if you are a he or she) can hold an argument
instead of just trying to put someone down in every letter.
You ARE a twit and though I have argues against this, *YOU* are in my twit
list.
However, I stop to thank you, though. I have learned one more thing off you
that I never knew, before, that I had. The limits of my patience and as a
result of that, the needs of others I have said SHOULD listen to STOP
listening to complete CRAP.
BH> Kenneth Cain (ke...@txdirect.net) wrote:
BH>: Gee Greg,
BH>: Where do all these dog "experts" come from?
BH>
BH> Yes where DID you come from ,and what makes YOU an expert Bubba.
BH>
BH>: It sounds like BH is a graduate of Stormy and dogma...@aol.com's
BH>: Charm and Finishing School.
BH>
BH> Really. I answwered in kind no more no less.
BH>
BH>: You ever notice how easy is to tell when someone is speaking from th
BH>: eir heart and how obvious it is when they are speaking from their
BH>: hate.
BH>
BH> And EXACTLY where do you get HATE from? Have I said ANYTHING
BH> whatsoever
BH> derogatory about the breed of dog involved NO and if you think so I
BH> invite you to show me EXACTLY WHERE. GregH obviously knows very little
BH> of where he speaks in reference to the subject of keeping dogs on a
BH> chain. You both will quite obviously sidestep the issue when called on
BH> this in favor of a personal flame war.
BH>
BH> As far as the whole incident goes it was quite evident that it was
BH> an
BH> issue of lack of supervision on the part of the adults that should
BH> have been in control of the situation. Your perpetuation of the MYTH
BH> that chaining any dog will make them instantly "mean" doesn't change
BH> that in the least ,just as your caterwauling doesn't make it any less
BH> a myth.
BH>
BH>
BH> B.
You will NEVER be wrong in your entire life. I wonder if that bothers you?
I am glad to say I wont see YOUR messages ever again!
gregh
On 22-Nov-96 04:49:56, Bryan Hinkle assaulted me about Re: dogman hates
CHOWS!
BH> Lisa K. Baird (lba...@infinet.com) wrote:
BH>: Which is precisely what I stated in my post. Please read the posts,
BH>: before you slam them.
BH>
BH> Excuse Me? Show a case of me 'slamming" any of your posts Lisa.
BH> The post that I "slammed" was the inflammatory one of GregH's that
BH> indicated that the incident was caused by the dog being kept on a
BH> chain ,if indeed it was kept on a chain ,which still seems to be up
BH> in the air at the moment.
Bryan,
There was nothing inflammatory about it. Dogs kept on chains all day DO
develope problems and that is a simple fact.
BH> Furthermore for GregH and Ken Cain to extrapolate by some altogether
BH> unfathomable manner that *I* called for elimination of *any* breed of
BH> dog is laughable at best and hysterically ludicrous otherwise as any
BH> person who has been in r.p.d.* et al for any length of time would
BH> know.
I wonder - can I send you some straw? I need a pile of gold. The way you
make comments out of nothing seems to indicate that you would be good with
the straw. ;-\
My stance - for YOUR edification - is as follows (and note that I am not
accusing you of ANYTHING below, OK?):
1) *NO* breed deserves erradication. To say a breed DOES is simply
stupidity. Heck, the Australian Dingo is a wild dog approaching the
intelligence of a wolf and can, in some cases, be considered dangerous BUT
though some farmers here treat them like vermin, I dont believe even they
want them completely erradicated.
2) The major problem when a dog attack DOES occur is, in over 90% of cases,
a problem of the human in some way and not the dog. Of course, there are
MEDICAL reasons why an otherwise normal and good natured animal may start
attacking.
3) Any dog stored on a chain, day in, day out, WILL develope problems.
Now, I know you dont agree with 3 so we'll bypass that for the moment. I
think even YOU will agree with 1 and 2, however. How anyone sees 1 and 2 as
something "emotional and inflammatory", as I have been accused, is beyond
me. Anyone reading this who does NOT agree with 1 and 2, the problem is
yours, not mine.
gregh
On 22-Nov-96 15:31:11, Carol Dunster assaulted me about Re: dogman hates
CHOWS!
CD> On 22 Nov 96 00:21:44 +1000, gr...@fl.net.au (gregh) wrote:
>>
>>On 21-Nov-96 12:54:41, Bryan Hinkle assaulted me about Re: dogman hates
>>CHOWS!
CD> I must say that my stance on Chows is neutral - I have not trouble
CD> reading the body language of the couple that I groom and we get along
CD> well, even though that particular pair are unsocialized farm dogs - a
CD> tad timid, but not mean.
CD> I am getting a little tired of all attitude and no organization on the
CD> part of some of the people discussing this issue. I suppose that
CD> gr...@fl.net.au doesn't care about my opinion, but he is NOT winning
CD> any converts to his cause by his inflammatory rhetoric and
CD> disorganized arguments. I particularly am getting tired of the "xxxx
CD> assaulted me about" reply header. Is this supposed to be cute? I find
CD> it annoying and no longer actually read these posts. It is too obvious
CD> that I will only read emotion and not any rational thought.
CD> And I am basically on his side on the issue!
CD> Carol and the Carwyn Silkys
Carol,
EXCUSE ME? *I* am the one saying ANY breed may take a tooth to you
depending on the situation but that *NO* breed deserves erradication as
others are saying. Now where you get emotional and irrational out of
*THAT*, I dont know. The problem is in YOUR court.
As to the header, thanks for reading it. If you dont like it, dont read it.
It is just the same as ANY reply header. Anyone with Internet experience
knows that.
gregh
On 22-Nov-96 02:50:06, Bryan Hinkle assaulted me about Re: dogman hates
CHOWS!
BH>: Certainly not from MY bum but their ideas are just as full of shit!
BH>: ;-}
BH>
BH> Really? Why don't you give me some substantive evidence of this
BH> give me some substantive evidence of your assertion that chaining any
BH> dog is a surefire way to make them "mean".
Bryan,
You supply no proof but to anyone with an open mind, it is obvious about
chaining dogs and the bad effects arising therefrom. What proof could
ANYONE give you that could be taken seriously by you that didnt come FROM
you?
BH>
BH>
BH>: What makes you think they WENT to school? UNFOUNDED ALLEGATION! ;-}
BH>
BH> Is this your best shot? Try again Bubba.
BH>
Was that supposed to be a "witty comeback"?
BH>: Yep. One talks like they know what they are talking about - eg, those
BH>: knowing no entire breed should be exterminated - and one talks like
BH>: they have too much of a handheld sex life - the one that thinks an
BH>: entire breed SHOULD be exterminate. ;-}
BH>
BH>
BH> You really ARE a jackass aren't you? Point out WHERE I have at any
Gee THAT is a really rational comment based on no emotional content at all,
isnt it? What use is there speaking to people such as you?
BH> time stated ANYTHING derogatory about the breed of dog involved in
BH> this incident. Point out EXACTLY WHERE I've stated EVER that an entire
BH> breed should be exterminated. You CAN'T because I've NEVER stated
BH> that EVER and in fact have defended Chows on occasion just as
BH> vociferously as any other breed.
I was referring to YOU was I? Where? Point out EXACTLY where I referred to
you! the problem here, Bryan is that you seem to think any NEGATIVE comment
is directed at YOU. In fact it wasnt. Would you like to eat humble pie NOW?
BH>
BH> My beef with YOU is your mistaken assumption that ALL dogs kept on
BH> chain rigs are made immediately people aggressive BY being kept on a
BH> chain rig. This assumption is patently false and provably so on a
BH> daily basis by thousands of people across this country.
My beef with you is that you seem to think anyone disagreeing with you is
wrong and that is that.
gregh
On 22-Nov-96 03:18:18, Bryan Hinkle assaulted me about Re: dogman hates
CHOWS!
BH>: OOOOO such a hurtful arty comeback. OOOOHHH dont display your wit so
BH>: BLINDINGLY!
BH>
BH> Oh I see. Instead of discussing dogs you wish to engage in rhetorical
BH> combat? Is this your method of accenting your gonads?
BH>
Bryan,
You were the one with the "blinding wit" reply. Dont get snotty when I
reply in kind.
BH>: The point of disbelief is that you own a disctionary to find that
BH>: word to
BH> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
BH>
BH> The point of disbelief is that you dally with word flames without
BH> bothering to check your own.
Oh so you never make typos, eh?
BH>
BH>: be honest. Yes I have had enough. People like you who think dogs have
BH>: no problems being locked on chains all day should be made to endure
BH>: the same and see what happens to you. A normal intelligent adult dog
BH>: is more intelligent than a 3 year old human child and dogs ALSO have
BH>: feelings and react to human moods and how they are
BH>: treated/mistreated. To think otherwise betrays no IDEA how to handle
BH>: dogs.
BH>
BH> Excuse me? And exactly where do YOU get this from? Many here
BH> and in the REAL world will disagree with your assumption that I know
BH> nothing of how to handle canines. You're blowing smoke to obfuscate
BH> the issue.
Your idea of the REAL WORLD, however, is far FROM the *REAL* *WORLD*. That
is the point of contention. My proof comes from my own observations of
people I have known who DID store their dogs on chains, my father's WORKING
experience with them and reports I have read. Yours?
While I agree with you that "MANY" might disagree with ME and agree with
*YOU*, the point is that they would be very FAR from the majority.
BH>: No, nothing at all, mate. Nothing. That is why I can approach dogs I
BH>: dont know and not get bitten - because I know nothing about them. If
BH>: you havre
BH>
BH> Many people can approach non-biting dogs and not get bitten ,exactly
BH> HOW does the above PROVE any significant knowledge of canines in
BH> general or dogs kept on a chain rig in particular.
How does your changing the point of that actually prove YOUR point?
BH>
BH>
BH>: PROOF of me not knowing about animals, where is it? You are making
BH>: claims without substance or proof. Such claims are only fart gas -
BH>: they are noticeable but only warn of impending SHIT.
BH>
BH> Maybe you should rearead what YOU wrote above ,it applies EXACTLY to
BH> you and your erroneous statements on this subject.
BH>
More examples of your BLINDING WIT, it seems. Create your OWN lines.
BH>: So you say but then again you think dogs are OK to be put on chains
BH>: day in day out
BH>
BH> Thats EXACTLY what I'm stating ,that dogs CAAN be kept on chain
^^^^^
Someone pointing out typos at ME was there?
BH> systems rather than in kennelas with NO ill effect whatsoever.
...and to anyone with knowledge on dogs and the ability to react to it,
this is pure nonsense.
BH>: SURE you have. Then again, my father was a drover of stock from
BH>: outback Queensland who depended on the dogs he worked with and to do
BH>: the same, had to ensure they were treated as well as possible. He
BH>: knew - and taught me and later PROVED to me because people near us
BH>: kept THEIR dogs on chains - that it is detrimental for the dog for
BH>: varying reasons.
BH>
BH> Thats correct YES I have. And YES your father taught you incorrectly
HAHAHHA MY father taught ME incorrectly yet you STILL stick to "dogs on
chains" is OK which is totally laughable! Mate, wake up - you are just
WRONG.
BH> not to mention that HERDING dogs by their very nature don't need to be
BH> kept that way ,though I HAVE seen Heelers ,Kelpies ,B.C. CataHoulas
BH> etc kept chained when NOT working with ocne again ZERO ill effect.
BH>
You are wrong on that point, too. Some people, I know, resort to chaining
their dog simply because a bitch, somewhere, is in heat and the dog knows
about it. The dog WOULD go out and sometimes not come back for days in this
case. Their idea to keep their dog at home was to chain it. My father's
idea was to make sure the dog couldnt get out. Our dog was caught trying to
burrow under our fence at the gate where my father drove his car into our
yard. He cemented under the gate. The dog tried a number of other ways and
Dad stopped them that way. Our dog *DID* go a bit silly, understandably,
wanting to get to the bitch in season. He kept urinating here and there and
occasionally whining but when the bitch's season was over, he was quite
normal again.
Herding dogs WILL desert their instincts on the right occasions which was
why a bitch in heat was NEVER used by my father and his father for droving.
Of course, some bitches managed to surprise everyone with an irregular
season in the middle of a drove. It caused trouble so the bitch was always
left with someone until they passed back that way - or if not too far from
home, taken back.
BH>: Given the choice between your claims and the experience of a man who
BH>: worked with them for a living in the 1930s-1940s, you lose.
BH>
BH> Not claims my boy FACT. And given the the basis for YOUR claims
BH> and
BH> your lack of substantive proof YOU lose. Sorry but...."Daddy told me
BH> so it must be true.".............doesn't wash.
BH>
Yes but *I* have the advantage of having FACT and EXPERIENCE from my own
and my father's observations on my side while you have nothing more than
your claims. Again, you lose.
BH>: When you have a CLUE how to decently treat a dog, you will KNOW what
BH>: I mean without needing it to be explained to you. Until then, you
BH>: wont believe anything other than your own point of view.
BH> Gad but you're a hypocrite aren't you. See when you make a
At least, if I AM a hypocrite which you just wont supply proof for, I treat
dogs well enough to know NOT to chain them unless using the chain to take
them on a walk and ONLY then.
BH> blanket
BH> statement categorising ALL people who keep a dog on a chain as
BH> heathens and ALL dogs kept on chains as human-aggressive you'll get
BH> called on said statement.
I see. *I* said "heathens" did I? WHERE? That is a complete fabrication on
your part and more a reason not to trust your comments. I said "Human-
aggressive" because of being on a chain did I? Where? Another point not in
your favour. I said "They *WILL* have problems". Such problems MAY WELL be
in aggression, I dont deny but whatever the problem, there WILL be one. The
first and common problem I see from such circumstances are continuous
barkers. In some dog's cases, this may be ALL that happens.
BH>
BH> As for MY DOGS ,wellllll there are people present here who KNOW me
BH> and KNOW EXACTLY HOW I TREAT MY ANIMALS AND THE RESUE ANIMALS I FOSTER
BH> they are laughing their collective asses off at you right now.
BH>
Then change your ways and they may stop! ;-p
BH> See rather than discuss the ISSUE you'd rather make accusatory and
BH> unprovable statements in an attempt to sidetrack attention from the
BH> fact that you don't KNOW whereof you speak.
That has been your problem all along. I have said "Dogs on chains WILL
develope problems" and you have said they wont. You appear *NOT* to allow
the fact that 1) You are wrong - which you are - or even the possibility of
it 2) ANYONE to say different to you.
In such cases, people such as yourself are not worth discussing an issue
with, rationally. As far as YOU are concerned, you are right and that is
all there is to it. Unfortunately, facts dont seem to concern you.