Newbie here: Help identifying mixed breed rescued dog (Muttley)

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Paul

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Jun 27, 2006, 1:28:26 AM6/27/06
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Hello all:

I frequently post on some of the technical electronics newsgroups, but
I am
new to this newsgroup. I have a dog I helped rescue from the projects
of
downtown Baltimore, and I would like help identifying the breeds he
represents.

He is a large, powerful dog, with massive chest, thick legs, and a huge

head out of proportion to his body. His tongue has spots of purple,
which
my friend seems to think shows some Chow. He seems somewhat like a
German
Shepherd, but bulkier. I think he may be part Pit Bull, or American
Staffordshire Terrier. I have his picture on www.gotdogsonline.com, and

also on www.wikifido.com. An older picture is on my personal website at

www.peschoen.com.

I would not ordinarily have adopted a dog, especially one this size, as
I
also have a cat (Photon), and Muttley is very cat-aggressive. He was
probably surviving on his own for quite a while, and retains many of
his
wild survival instincts. He is fairly well housebroken, except for
occasional accidents and probable excitement caused by the cat. He has
so
far resisted my attempts to train him, so he pulls hard on his choker
chain
when I walk him, and cannot be trusted to run in an unfenced area. He
did
get loose late one night, and ran back into the woods for about a half
hour
before returning. I would gladly do it more often, but I am afraid of
what
he might do to my neighbors' children and pets, as well as fearing for
his
safety on the heavily traveled road in front of my house. I would like
to
find a good home for him, but I don't want to just take him to an
animal
rescue or SPCA where he might be euthenized, and in any case I would
never
see him again. Ideally I'd like to find someone nearby so I could
possibly
visit or hear of his well being.

However, the main reason for my post is to help identify his breed. I
can
send more photos if anyone is interested in helping me.

(Sorry if this is a repeat. My regular news server has been dropping
posts)

Thanks!

Paul

diddy

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Jun 27, 2006, 8:17:58 AM6/27/06
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"Paul" <pst...@smart.net> composed these thoughts and posted them
news:1151386106.1...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com:

> Hello all:
>
> I frequently post on some of the technical electronics newsgroups, but
> I am
> new to this newsgroup. I have a dog I helped rescue from the projects
> of
> downtown Baltimore, and I would like help identifying the breeds he
> represents.
>
> He is a large, powerful dog, with massive chest, thick legs, and a huge
>
> head out of proportion to his body. His tongue has spots of purple,
> which
> my friend seems to think shows some Chow. He seems somewhat like a
> German
> Shepherd, but bulkier. I think he may be part Pit Bull, or American
> Staffordshire Terrier. I have his picture on www.gotdogsonline.com, and
>
> also on www.wikifido.com. An older picture is on my personal website at
>
> www.peschoen.com.

Well, I found no dogs on that page, being link specific would help.


www.wikifido.com

Found lots of dogs, which is yours?

www.gotdogsonline.com
Found lots of dogs, which is yours?


> Thanks!
>
> Paul
>
>

Paul

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Jun 27, 2006, 1:30:44 PM6/27/06
to
Sorry, I thought I had added his picture to my home page. I put
pictures on my website at:
www.smart.net/~pstech/photos/Muttley023a.jpg
www.smart.net/~pstech/photos/Muttley024b.jpg
www.smart.net/~pstech/photos/Muttley025b.jpg.

A search for "Muttley" on wikifido will find him.

Thanks,

Paul

Janet B

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Jun 27, 2006, 1:44:49 PM6/27/06
to
On 27 Jun 2006 10:30:44 -0700, "Paul" <pst...@smart.net>, clicked
their heels and said:

> I have a dog I helped rescue from the projects
>> > of
>> > downtown Baltimore, and I would like help identifying the breeds he
>> > represents.

Most of the projects have been torn down, but some sure do exist
still. You don't have to look far, or even in the projects, to find
dogs needing rescue in Baltimore, that's for sure. Thanks for
adopting this guy.

>Sorry, I thought I had added his picture to my home page. I put
>pictures on my website at:
>www.smart.net/~pstech/photos/Muttley023a.jpg
>www.smart.net/~pstech/photos/Muttley024b.jpg
>www.smart.net/~pstech/photos/Muttley025b.jpg.


He's very handsome (what's with the sweatshirt? he doesn't look like
he needs help staying warm! ;-D). Where did you even FIND a chain
leash these days (I think I bought one in a dollar store a few year
ago, as an example of what not to use but otherwise never see them)?

His muzzle looks a bit Shar-pei-ish in the one shot, which may be the
source of a blue/purple tongue. He has a docked tail? If he does, it
triggers "idiot who has a Rotti mix and thinks that should be done"
(not YOU, whomever owned him as a young puppy). I'm really bad at
color genetics, so I don't even know that his coloration is possible
if Rotti is in there (some people here are very good at that). His
coat texture is hard to tell - looks very different in the various
shots - can you describe?

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Paul

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Jun 27, 2006, 2:34:03 PM6/27/06
to

Thanks for your reply. I am learning a lot from this newsgroup, even
from the madman. My friend Helene, who actually initiated the rescue,
along with three other dogs, gave me the choker collar and chain. She
seemed to know about dogs, and told me I should be very firm with him,
yanking on the chain and loudly yelling "NO" when he pulled hard or
jumped up or did any other undesired behavior. She also insisted that
Muttley wear that stupid coat. Another woman gave me a copy of "There
Are No Bad Dogs", which had some good points, but I think it is too
simplistic. She criticized me for not having Muttley better trained,
although her own little dog is a yappy spoiled brat.

I do not pretend to be the world's best pet owner. I let my cat run
free outside when she wants to, but she seems healthy and happy after
about 6 years. Unfortunately, she is terrorized by Muttley and hides in
the crawlspace under the floor.

I don't really have the best place to keep Muttley. He is usually good
about staying indoors while I am here, but when I go away to work, I
must tie him up outdoors. I have a partially enclosed porch where he
can find some shelter, and he usually just relaxes there comfortably.
He is usually very excited when I get home, and he jumps up a lot. In
the house, he is very anxious to be freed of the chain, and although he
will "SIT" briefly, he runs around a lot once he is free, most likely
looking for the cat. Eventually he settles down, especially when I give
him a rawhide chew. He will eat one of those in about 10 minutes.

Muttley has a much better home here than he had in the city, but I
think he deserves better, and my cat needs to regain her sense of
safety in the house, and be able to sit on my lap and socialize. I try
to give her as much time as possible, by keeping Muttley outside, but
it is difficult when it is raining or very cold. I know dogs can be
trained to coexist with cats, but Muttley's history of self-survival
and my cat's instincts for self-preservation may make it impossible. I
hope to find him a better home. Meanwhile I will do what I can.

As for his characteristics, he has a fairly short, dense coat, mostly
rusty brown. His shortened tail was likely caused by abuse or accident.
One of the other rescued dogs, a black Lab, could not or did not move
its tail or ears, so it was hard to "read" him. Muttley is not overly
aggressive, but he is "assertive" about getting what he wants. He did
once bite a handyman I had working on my house. He first made friends
with Muttley, but probably did not truly gain trust, as he seemed to
cower and didn't wag his tail. He barked a lot while the man banged on
the house, and then when he passed by my dog, he suddenly lunged and
bit him in the seat of the pants. His large size and powerful build
would make him a good watchdog, but I don't think he'd be good with
young children. I had one couple with kids of about 4-8 who would have
adopted him, but they were unwilling to pay anything toward his medical
bills, and I think he would have knocked down the kids if he got
excited.

Thanks for you interest.

Paul

Janet B

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Jun 27, 2006, 2:41:37 PM6/27/06
to
On 27 Jun 2006 11:34:03 -0700, "Paul" <pst...@smart.net>, clicked
their heels and said:

>
>I don't really have the best place to keep Muttley. He is usually good
>about staying indoors while I am here, but when I go away to work, I
>must tie him up outdoors. I have a partially enclosed porch where he
>can find some shelter, and he usually just relaxes there comfortably.

>Muttley has a much better home here than he had in the city, but I
>think he deserves better, and my cat needs to regain her sense of
>safety in the house, and be able to sit on my lap and socialize. I try
>to give her as much time as possible, by keeping Muttley outside, but
>it is difficult when it is raining or very cold.

> I had one couple with kids of about 4-8 who would have


>adopted him, but they were unwilling to pay anything toward his medical
>bills, and I think he would have knocked down the kids if he got
>excited.

Are you working with a rescue group Paul? Are you doing any training
with him? I offer free classes to dogs in foster care with some of
the local rescue groups, in order to help them to be more adoptable.
You may e-mail me privately if you're interested in pursuing that.


--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

diddy

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Jun 27, 2006, 2:42:13 PM6/27/06
to
"Paul" <pst...@smart.net> composed these thoughts and posted them
news:1151433243.3...@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

>
> Janet B wrote:
>> On 27 Jun 2006 10:30:44 -0700, "Paul" <pst...@smart.net>, clicked
>> their heels and said:
>>
>> > I have a dog I helped rescue from the projects
>> >> > of
>> >> > downtown Baltimore, and I would like help identifying the breeds
he
>> >> > represents.
>>
>> Most of the projects have been torn down, but some sure do exist
>> still. You don't have to look far, or even in the projects, to find
>> dogs needing rescue in Baltimore, that's for sure. Thanks for
>> adopting this guy.
>>
>> >Sorry, I thought I had added his picture to my home page. I put
>> >pictures on my website at:
>> >www.smart.net/~pstech/photos/Muttley023a.jpg
>> >www.smart.net/~pstech/photos/Muttley024b.jpg
>> >www.smart.net/~pstech/photos/Muttley025b.jpg.
>>
>>
>> He's very handsome (what's with the sweatshirt? he doesn't look like
>> he needs help staying warm! ;-D). Where did you even FIND a chain
>> leash these days (I think I bought one in a dollar store a few year
>> ago, as an example of what not to use but otherwise never see them)?

I think he looks very much like a Leonberger.
First Leonberger I ever saw, I thought was a mutt, and was surprised that
it was actually a breed.
But it was such a handsome breed, even if it was a mutt, it SHOULD be a
breed!
That sounds confusing... but i guess i know what I meant

Janet B

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Jun 27, 2006, 2:48:23 PM6/27/06
to
On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 13:42:13 -0500, diddy <di...@diddy.net>, clicked
their heels and said:

>I think he looks very much like a Leonberger.
>First Leonberger I ever saw, I thought was a mutt, and was surprised that
>it was actually a breed.
>But it was such a handsome breed, even if it was a mutt, it SHOULD be a
>breed!
>That sounds confusing... but i guess i know what I meant

Can't say that I think he looks like a Leo, but I sure do like those
dogs. There are actually TWO running flyball in our region! We made
friends with some in Italy a few summers ago. They're really lovely
dogs.


--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Paul

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Jun 27, 2006, 3:46:13 PM6/27/06
to

He does look a lot like one picture of a Leonberger at 10 months.
Especially his black mask, and description of his kind brown eyes,
intelligence, and powerful build. Older dogs seem to have longer hair,
and his purple tongue is supposedly a non-Leonberger trait. I have
contacted the local Leonberger rescue to see if they can identify (and
maybe find a better home).

We were working partially with a local rescue group (Fallston Animal
Rescue Mission), but it was an independent effort on the part of my
friend Helene that resulted in his survival. He was one of two dogs
that had been picked up by the City Animal Control, and I went there to
"bail them out". He was taken several places, and I picked him up at a
vets just after his castration. He was so cute and clumsy with that
huge cone collar! I stopped at my place on the way downtown and walked
him around my 2.5 acre property, and we seemed to get along. Helene had
made arrangements for him to be taken for adoption at the SPCA, so I
took him on down there. However, they had just received a large
shipment of animals who were displaced by Katrina, and they were
overloaded. A large dog like this Mutt would most certainly have been
put down. When he put his big paws on the counter and looked at me with
those big brown eyes, I knew I could not let that happen. That was
around Valentines day. I guess he became my sweetheart...

Thanks,

Paul

TaraG

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Jun 27, 2006, 5:14:27 PM6/27/06
to

"Janet B" <ja...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> wrote in message
news:vqu2a2ps0autu13cu...@4ax.com...

> Are you doing any training
> with him? I offer free classes to dogs in foster care with some of
> the local rescue groups, in order to help them to be more adoptable.
> You may e-mail me privately if you're interested in pursuing that.

I can't stress how much I think you should do this, Paul. The method your
friend suggested for you is just not good training. If Janet will let you
join for free, I would jump at that chance.

Tara


~misty

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Jun 27, 2006, 10:47:34 PM6/27/06
to

He looks a bit like my dog's brother. Cisco is a hefty 70 pounds (Zelda,
my girl, is a petite 45 pounds.. compared to her brother she is petite ;-)

http://mistymage.com/Family/Pets/pets3/cisco.html

Zelda and Cisco are Lab/and probably Shar Pei (their mama was allowed to
roam the area and there were 3 intact male Shar Peis at that time.)

He looks to be quite the sweety! I read that your cat is scared of him?
If he is ok with the cat.. not trying to eat it.. maybe try buying
some Feliway (happy cat hormones) or ask your vet about some anxiety
drops. My vet offered Natural Homeopathic Remedy (brand name.. a mix of
Chamomille and Valerian) which has worked nicely to settle my female
down... she was attacking my male cat and now just ignores him.. without
needing the drops. It just kind of "broke the cycle". I just gave her
another dose.. we just moved into a new house and she is spazzing.
Hopefully a few days and a few drops will get her back to normal.


Robin

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Jun 27, 2006, 11:25:52 PM6/27/06
to

"Janet B" <ja...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> wrote in message
news:m8r2a2lqd86rg9ish...@4ax.com...

> On 27 Jun 2006 10:30:44 -0700, "Paul" <pst...@smart.net>, clicked
> their heels and said:
>
>> I have a dog I helped rescue from the projects
>>> > of
>>> > downtown Baltimore, and I would like help identifying the breeds he
>>> > represents.
>
> Most of the projects have been torn down, but some sure do exist
> still. You don't have to look far, or even in the projects, to find
> dogs needing rescue in Baltimore, that's for sure. Thanks for
> adopting this guy.
>
>>Sorry, I thought I had added his picture to my home page. I put
>>pictures on my website at:
>>www.smart.net/~pstech/photos/Muttley023a.jpg
>>www.smart.net/~pstech/photos/Muttley024b.jpg
>>www.smart.net/~pstech/photos/Muttley025b.jpg.
>
>
> He's very handsome (what's with the sweatshirt? he doesn't look like
> he needs help staying warm! ;-D). Where did you even FIND a chain
> leash these days (I think I bought one in a dollar store a few year
> ago, as an example of what not to use but otherwise never see them)?
>
> His muzzle looks a bit Shar-pei-ish in the one shot, which may be the
> source of a blue/purple tongue.

I agree on some possible shar pei. His skin tone appears to be a dark skin,
and his coat colors and "watermark" pattern look just like a fawn pei. Is
the fur kind of bristly, especially in shorter areas? Does he have a
stubborn, independent side?

She the coat colors on my pei/pit pix.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/67771168/1343612189045444261lPFflu

flick

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Jun 27, 2006, 11:38:18 PM6/27/06
to
"diddy" <di...@diddy.net> wrote in message
news:Xns97EF958F8BA...@216.196.97.142...

> I think he looks very much like a Leonberger.
> First Leonberger I ever saw, I thought was a mutt, and was surprised that
> it was actually a breed.
> But it was such a handsome breed, even if it was a mutt, it SHOULD be a
> breed!
> That sounds confusing... but i guess i know what I meant

He's got a Saint Bernard-looking set to his ears, imo.

Was it you who mentioned Shar Pei earlier? All the Shar Pei crosses I've
ever seen looked very Pei-ish, more than this dog.

What about pit bull mix x german shepherd-type mix?

flick 100785


flick

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Jun 27, 2006, 11:41:37 PM6/27/06
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"Robin" <robina...@hotmail.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:FEmog.40$IF...@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
>

> I agree on some possible shar pei. His skin tone appears to be a dark
> skin, and his coat colors and "watermark" pattern look just like a fawn
> pei. Is the fur kind of bristly, especially in shorter areas? Does he
> have a stubborn, independent side?

The cat-aggression and protectiveness fit.

Lovely dog!

Illustrates what I've always seen in known Shar Pei crosses. They look very
Pei-ish.

flick 100785


Robin

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Jun 28, 2006, 12:04:01 AM6/28/06
to

"flick" <fl...@starband.net> wrote in message
news:7692b$44a1fa8b$94402b1b$20...@STARBAND.NET...

Thank you; she's beautiful and she knows it. She is not a 50/50 mix. Her
father was full pei, and her mother was half pei, half pit bull. I think
alot of pei features do tend to stand out more in the pei mixes I have seen,
though. Maybe that is because they are one of the oldest breeds, more
closely related to the wolf ancestors.

"With the microsatellite data, the researchers also drew a family tree of
the breeds. In one cluster of closely related breeds, presumably the oldest
ones, all the dogs trace their ancestry back to Asia and Africa. These dogs'
DNA shows the greatest similarity to wolf DNA, Ostrander and her colleagues
report. This diverse collection of old breeds includes the Siberian husky,
the Alaskan malamute, the shar-pei, and the Akita. "

quoted from

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20040522/fob4.asp


Robin

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Jun 28, 2006, 12:09:37 AM6/28/06
to

"flick" <fl...@starband.net> wrote in message
news:24591$44a1f9c5$94402b1b$20...@STARBAND.NET...

> "diddy" <di...@diddy.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns97EF958F8BA...@216.196.97.142...
>
>> I think he looks very much like a Leonberger.
>> First Leonberger I ever saw, I thought was a mutt, and was surprised that
>> it was actually a breed.
>> But it was such a handsome breed, even if it was a mutt, it SHOULD be a
>> breed!
>> That sounds confusing... but i guess i know what I meant
>
> He's got a Saint Bernard-looking set to his ears, imo.
>
> Was it you who mentioned Shar Pei earlier? All the Shar Pei crosses I've
> ever seen looked very Pei-ish, more than this dog.
>

The thing that struck me as most pei-ish was the "black" skin with the light
color hair.

flick

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Jun 28, 2006, 1:02:21 AM6/28/06
to
"Robin" <robina...@hotmail.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Ghnog.56$IF2...@bignews7.bellsouth.net...

>
> The thing that struck me as most pei-ish was the "black" skin with the
> light color hair.

Yes, I can see that.

I don't see any other Pei features, unless the dog is only a teensy bit Shar
Pei. And the ears are set awfully low.

When I see those low-set ears folded that way, I think St. B. I'm far from
an expert, though.

We need Liisa ;-).

What is it about the Chinese and animals with black skin? We got some Silky
chicks, and they have black skin - the only chicken breed with that
characteristic.

flick 100785


Paul E. Schoen

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Jun 28, 2006, 9:58:58 AM6/28/06
to

"~misty" <morelly...@mistymage.com> wrote in message
news:e7sqk3$jms$1...@news.netins.net...
[snip]

>> Sorry, I thought I had added his picture to my home page. I put
>> pictures on my website at:
>> www.smart.net/~pstech/photos/Muttley023a.jpg
>> www.smart.net/~pstech/photos/Muttley024b.jpg
>> www.smart.net/~pstech/photos/Muttley025b.jpg.
>>
>> A search for "Muttley" on wikifido will find him.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Paul
>>
>
> He looks a bit like my dog's brother. Cisco is a hefty 70 pounds (Zelda,
> my girl, is a petite 45 pounds.. compared to her brother she is petite
> ;-)
>
> http://mistymage.com/Family/Pets/pets3/cisco.html
>
> Zelda and Cisco are Lab/and probably Shar Pei (their mama was allowed to
> roam the area and there were 3 intact male Shar Peis at that time.)
>
> He looks to be quite the sweety! I read that your cat is scared of him?
> If he is ok with the cat.. not trying to eat it.. maybe try buying some
> Feliway (happy cat hormones) or ask your vet about some anxiety drops. My
> vet offered Natural Homeopathic Remedy (brand name.. a mix of Chamomille
> and Valerian) which has worked nicely to settle my female down... she was
> attacking my male cat and now just ignores him.. without needing the
> drops. It just kind of "broke the cycle". I just gave her another dose..
> we just moved into a new house and she is spazzing. Hopefully a few days
> and a few drops will get her back to normal.
>
>

He does look a lot like Cisco. I'll never know his true ancestry, but it is
a learning experience to speculate.

Thanks for the info about the medications. It is hard to tell if he would
harm the cat. Once when I had him at the vets, he was nose to nose with a
very mellow cat and he was OK. I think he reacts when she runs, and then it
becomes a game. He has been a bit less aggressive lately. I think he just
wants to play. Usually his tail wags when he sees her, but sometimes his
body tenses up and he seems very serious. Considering that he may have
survived in the wild by catching live food, he might try to eat her. There
is also the jealousy factor. "I don't get attention when Master is with
cat", "I eat cat", "I get all attention".

Paul


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