Giant Schnauzer vs. German Shepard
Armin Boehm
>I was wondering which one you folks might suggest. I am looking for
>both a companion and protection. There is a lot of crime in my
>neighborhood and need someone to watch over my girlfriend when I'm away
>on business. I would also like to train it, so that they'll only eat
>from certain people. I lost my dog last year to someone throwing
>poisoned meat over the fence and he ate it!
If you want an obedience machine, get a German Shepherd.
If you want a dog with individual behaviour, get a Giant Schnauzer ...
Cheers,
Herbert Hirschfelder
Brad Shell
both a companion and protection. There is a lot of crime in my
neighborhood and need someone to watch over my girlfriend when I'm away
on business. I would also like to train it, so that they'll only eat
from certain people. I lost my dog last year to someone throwing
poisoned meat over the fence and he ate it!
Other suggestions would be appreciated.
regards
Brad
Sarchann
If you want a dog with individual behaviour, get a Giant Schnauzer ...
Cheers,
Herbert Hirschfelder>>
Have you ever owned a German Shepherd, before you make that kind of
statement??? I have had them for years, and they have personalities that
will outshine any Schnauzer, believe me--as well as intelligence that will
run rings around any Schnauzer!!!
Linda Erickson
between the GSD and a Reisenschnauzer. Will have to have it put on a
tee-shirt and wear it to Schutzhund training. Danke!!!!
God Bless, One Day At A Time....Linda and the marvelous pepper/salt
Giant with the individual personality, Jaeger.
Vic Lombardi
to be your best protection dogs. The breed of dog you get depends on
your and your girlfriend's ability to handle that particular breed.
Giant Schnauzers make good protection dogs, so do German Shepherds,
the Bouvier, Rotties, etc. The considerations here must be taken very
seriously:
1. the dog, whatever the breed, must HAVE A SOUND MIND!!!
2. you and your girlfriend must be able to handle the dog with absolute
confidence. This entails training the dog and BOTH OF YOU and the
training must be done with someone who is COMPETENT.
If you start with a pup, it will be about 2 years before all the
necessary obedience and protection work is completed.
If you are considering purchasing a trained adult, be very sure that BOTH
of you can handle the dog. WORK WITH THE TRAINER AND PURCHASE THE DOG
ONLY IF BOTH OF YOU ARE COMFORTABLE WITH THE DOG. IF YOU HAVE ANY FEAR
OR DOUBT- LOOK ELSEWHERE.
If you start with a yearling, then all three of you need to be trained
TOGETHER.
Look to one of the Working Dog Associations for guidance.
jd
Gail B. Mackiernan
schnauzers, esp. the working schnauzers, Giant and Standard, have
exceptional ability to understand human words and to think out
situations, and to act on their own initiative. That was also mentioned
by Dr. Konrad Lorenz (Nobel Prize-winning ethologist) in his writings.
Dobermann Pinschers, a "kissin' cousin," share many of these traits as
well and in fact some police units say Dobes are "too smart" for their
handlers.
Once I sold a SS bitch puppy as a child's pet to a member of Baltimore
K-9 Corps who had a well-trained and quite lovely GSD. His unit
undertook to train their dogs to sniff out contraband drugs, and he
brought back to his house test packets scented like cocaine/crack and
heroin. The packets were hidden in the house and the dog, which was of
course trained to seek and use his nose, was sent to locate them. The SS
bitch, being instensely curious and observant, watched all this hoopla
for a while, then went around and located all the packets in about 30
minutes. Boring! The GSD took a couple of days to get the idea. This may
possibly have been because schnauzers have such intense self-confidence
and tend not to look much for ongoing guidance from their handler, which
I have noticed in a lot of GSD in my training classes.
Of course they are not *all* geniuses -- if you all recall the story of
"Donny and the Sock."
Gail Mackiernan, Katahdin Standard Schnauzers
Barbara
anb...@immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Armin Boehm) wrote:
> Brad Shell <rye...@email.sps.mot.com> writes:
>
> >I was wondering which one you folks might suggest. I am looking for
> >both a companion and protection. There is a lot of crime in my
> >neighborhood and need someone to watch over my girlfriend when I'm away
> >on business. I would also like to train it, so that they'll only eat
> >from certain people. I lost my dog last year to someone throwing
> >poisoned meat over the fence and he ate it!
>
> If you want an obedience machine, get a German Shepherd.
>
> If you want a dog with individual behaviour, get a Giant Schnauzer ...
>
> Cheers,
>
> Herbert Hirschfelder
Well said.
I also faced a similar dillema, but have chosen a Giant.
Almost no shedding, grooming is easy once you know how. Not as obedient as
a shepherd, hasn't got a slave mentality. Very smart. Very good
guard.Thinks for itself.
Barbara
Armin Boehm
><<If you want an obedience machine, get a German Shepherd.
>If you want a dog with individual behaviour, get a Giant Schnauzer ...
>Cheers,
>Herbert Hirschfelder>>
>Have you ever owned a German Shepherd, before you make that kind of
>statement??? I have had them for years, and they have personalities that
>will outshine any Schnauzer, believe me--as well as intelligence that will
>run rings around any Schnauzer!!!
I confess that my two liner is some provocative, but I fear there is some
truth in it. GSDs are bred for obedience, and many people use them for
obedience only, not as a family dog ... Of course, *many* are not ALL.
Cheers -- Herbert Hirschfelder
(hir...@uerx2.bib.uni-erlangen.de)
Joseph Finocchiaro
(Barbara) wrote:
>> If you want an obedience machine, get a German Shepherd.
>>
>> If you want a dog with individual behaviour, get a Giant Schnauzer ...
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Herbert Hirschfelder
>
>Well said.
>I also faced a similar dillema, but have chosen a Giant.
>Almost no shedding, grooming is easy once you know how. Not as obedient as
>a shepherd, hasn't got a slave mentality. Very smart. Very good
>guard.Thinks for itself.
>Barbara
OIC....a wonderful breed (GSD) that is thrilled to please his master
and thrives on working to the full level of his considerable
intelligence is now said by the clueless to have a "slave
mentality"????? Sheeeeeeesh.
What's with you doofuses eh? If you had been freakin' dogs, you would
all have been culled. Stick to cats, eh?
Joe "Rogue" Finocchiaro
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands,
hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." H. L. Mencken
Dennis Ortlund
I would stop trying to talk up this breed. Do we want to happen to the
Giant what happened to the GSD, the Doberman, and all the other suddenly
popular breeds? I don't think so.
Let the people who take the trouble to research things find the Giant
Schnauzer, and let the people who buy on whim and and "good advice" from
the Joseph Finocchiarros of the world buy other once good, but over bred
breeds.
my .02c
Dennis in Aurora IL, with no cutesy nickname in parentheses
Joseph Finocchiaro
wrote:
>Hey, all you Giant people out there....
>
>I would stop trying to talk up this breed. Do we want to happen to the
>Giant what happened to the GSD, the Doberman, and all the other suddenly
>popular breeds? I don't think so.
>
>Let the people who take the trouble to research things find the Giant
>Schnauzer, and let the people who buy on whim and and "good advice" from
>the Joseph Finocchiarros of the world buy other once good, but over bred
>breeds.
YO! Dennis "The Doofus"! Listen up! Just because you haven't a
freakin' clue doesn't automatically suggest that everyone who reads
these posts is clueless. There are many, many so-called "over-bred"
dogs out there besides GSDs (e.g., Labrador retrievers, et al.). Many
were mainly bred by the freakin' CLUELESS, those just like yourself.
However, the trick is to find/breed a SOUND specimen of the breed!
Considering that clueless DOOFUSES like yourself have great difficulty
even finding your freakin' way home, THEY have absolutely NO chance of
finding/breeding this kind of dog.
The doofus above who disparaged ALL GSDs by saying that THEY have a
"slave-mentality" only highlighted his IGNORANCE of dogs in general
and GSDs in particular. It always seems to me that the doofuses who
disparage dogs with "slave mentality," and "robotic" dogs, etc., are
the same freakin' doofuses who can't seem to TRAIN any dog whatsoever.
And because their own dog mostly IGNORES them, they consider this
exhibition of aloof behavior as evidence of their dog's great
"personality," and "individuality." BUNKUM and FLAPDOODLE! What it
REALLY means is that the dog's "master" probably hasn't a freakin'
clue (which also means this "master" has no freakin' idea why this
particular dog was originally selected for). In fact, he doesn't even
normally know what the word "selection" means.
Soundly-bred GSDs and Labrador retrievers are truly magnificent dogs,
capable of doing almost ANYTHING asked of them! And that's DESPITE
all the doofuses out there who have tried to RUIN both breeds by
careless and bizarre selection criteria.
Both GSDs and Labrador retrievers were originally selected and bred
for the very characteristics that you apparently find offensive:
Superior intelligence and a great desire to please their masters
(i.e., "robotic," "slave mentality," etc.). Frankly, I can't imagine
why EVERY dog/breed doesn't exhibit these two PARAMOUNT selective
criteriums. But then again, I'm not a DOOFUS.
PS: Hey, DOOFUS, did you notice how I was able to say ALL of the above
without finding any need to disparage the Giant Schnauzer? However,
with the GS starting to attract more and more doofuses like yourself,
it won't be long before GSs too will be in trouble. Sad. Sad.
James Bahr
>Hey, all you Giant people out there....
>
>I would stop trying to talk up this breed. Do we want to happen to the
>Giant what happened to the GSD, the Doberman, and all the other suddenly
>popular breeds? I don't think so.
>
>Let the people who take the trouble to research things find the Giant
>Schnauzer, and let the people who buy on whim and and "good advice" from
>the Joseph Finocchiarros of the world buy other once good, but over bred
>breeds.
>
>
>Dennis in Aurora IL, with no cutesy nickname in parentheses
>
I would hate to see them become to popular.
James w/ Kaiser
Gail B. Mackiernan
and breeding for inappropriate things (like lots of "furnishings" so
they look go in the showring but don't have the correct coat anymore --
some, not all, of course). We are seeing a more hereditary problems
showing up, possibly due to "founder effects" (small initial gene pool).
Also, and I hate to say this, but some people have giants because of the
ego-boosting quotient, not any great innate loyalty to this wonderful
breed.
If you are contemplating one of this breed, research carefully and buy
selectively.
Gial Mackiernan, Katahdin Standard Schnauzers
Dennis Ortlund
Just what the world needs, another Usenet tough guy. My, how
interesting (yawn)...perhaps others will take your flame bait, but not I.
I didn't, in fact, disparage the German Shepard Dog, or any other breed.
Of course, you would have to think about what I said, and not just "feel"
or react. I took exception with people who actively try to promote their
breed to be congnizant of the possible consequences of their actions, ie,
big time demand for the breed.
This inevitably leads to some unethical people seeing a cash cow, and
trying to make a killing by mating any two animals that can copulate so
that they can sell the poor pups for big dollars. None of this is the
fault of the dogs individually or the breed as a whole, but the net
effect remains that a great breed suffers. Anyone who would argue that
todays American bred GSD is, as a whole, on par with the quality of the
GSD's available before the boom in the 50's is, in your own unique
vocabulary, "freakin' clueless."
There is a reason that the seeing eye people breed their own dogs, and
it's not that they need the extra work, and why people looking for GSD's
for serious work import German bred dogs, and it's not because they enjoy
paying a fortune and dealing with the fine people in U.S. Customs, Fish
and Wildlife, Agriculture, and any other bureaucrats who can get their
little fingers in the pie. It's because the health and temperment of the
available dogs is a hit or miss proposition.
The same breed in Germany doesn't have the problems that their American
brethern have. I would argue that it is the popularity that did it, and
the resulting demand for the dogs, without the German oversight into
which dogs may breed and which may not. I would also argue that the AKC
fashion show has played a part, in that the dog doesn't have to show any
working ability to become a champion, but that is another subject
entirely.
Now look at that Joe, a logical, adult reply without any name calling.
What a concept. Of course, maybe it's not as fun for you to post without
using the word "freaking," but perhaps you could give it a try. Have a
nice day.
Dennis in Aurora IL
Barbara
(Joseph Finocchiaro) wrote:
> OIC....a wonderful breed (GSD) that is thrilled to please his master
> and thrives on working to the full level of his considerable
> intelligence is now said by the clueless to have a "slave
> mentality"????? Sheeeeeeesh.
>
> What's with you doofuses eh? If you had been freakin' dogs, you would
> all have been culled. Stick to cats, eh?
>
>
> Joe "Rogue" Finocchiaro
What is wrong with you Joe Finocchiaro? Don't get so worked up. Are you
confusing me with somebody else?
If you have any arguments, they are welcome. If not, keep insults to
yourself.
To me, 'slave mentality' is too much willingness to please and working very
closely with a master. It's not a derogatory term at all. Some people like
it,
I prefer a dog that works more independently.
I don't have any cats.
I will be away for a week. If you have any arguments, you can Email me. If
you want to insult me again, don't border.
Barbara
Joseph Finocchiaro
(Barbara) wrote:
>In article <3117b219...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, joe...@ix.netcom.com
>(Joseph Finocchiaro) wrote:
>
>
>> OIC....a wonderful breed (GSD) that is thrilled to please his master
>> and thrives on working to the full level of his considerable
>> intelligence is now said by the clueless to have a "slave
>> mentality"????? Sheeeeeeesh.
>>
>> What's with you doofuses eh? If you had been freakin' dogs, you would
>> all have been culled. Stick to cats, eh?
>>
>>
>> Joe "Rogue" Finocchiaro
>
>What is wrong with you Joe Finocchiaro?
Well, Babs, nothing that I can easily tell, eh?
>Don't get so worked up.
I always get "worked up" when I get too close to DOOFUSES.
>Are you
>confusing me with somebody else?
Doofuses are ALL pretty much the same, eh? However, you appear to be
doofier than most.
>If you have any arguments, they are welcome. If not, keep insults to
>yourself.
If you can INSULT GSDs by saying that they have a "slave mentality,"
then I can INSULT you, eh? Ain't America GREAT?
>To me, 'slave mentality' is too much willingness to please
You mean that you find a dog's willingness to please his master a
NEGATIVE trait, eh? What a freakin' DOOFUS. As I said before, people
like you should stick to goldfish and cats. People like you are why
we have Labrador retrievers who can't retrieve and German Shepard dogs
who can't herd, etc.
>and working very
>closely with a master.
Yep, that's what every dog SHOULD do.
>It's not a derogatory term at all.
Apparently not to a DOOFUS, it's not. However, maybe you should ask
Kunte Kinte what he thought about the term.
>Some people like
>it,
Some people like headcheese.
>I prefer a dog that works more independently.
Baloney! What you really mean here is that you haven't a freakin'
CLUE as to how to TRAIN a dog so you feel better about yourself by
saying the dog IGNORES you only because he's INDEPENDENT. What he is
really is DISOBEDIENT.
>I don't have any cats.
But YOU should get one. You want "independence," get a CAT, not a
DOG. I understand that GOLDFISH are pretty "independent" too, eh?
Perhaps a small LIZZARD?
Joseph Finocchiaro
wrote:
>Joseph, Joseph, Joseph.....
>
>Just what the world needs, another Usenet tough guy. My, how
>interesting (yawn)...perhaps others will take your flame bait, but not I.
Tough enough, eh? Maybe the NEXT time you ridicule someone who is
offering folks sound advice, you'll think twice. If fact, if YOU
would heed my advice, YOU wouldn't be such a DOOFUS.
>I didn't, in fact, disparage the German Shepard Dog, or any other breed.
>Of course, you would have to think about what I said, and not just "feel"
>or react. I took exception with people who actively try to promote their
>breed to be congnizant of the possible consequences of their actions, ie,
> big time demand for the breed.
Jeez, yet another freakin' drop-out from Comprehensive Reading class,
eh? You took exception to ME, and therefore what I said. And,
doofus, where did I ever "promote" the GSD???? And where did I ever
say that YOU disparaged the GSD? I referred to a doofus BEFORE you,
eh? You ridiculed my advice, very SOUND advice, mind you, and for
what reason? Just what was it I said that you didn't agree with?
HUH????
>This inevitably leads to some unethical people seeing a cash cow, and
>trying to make a killing by mating any two animals that can copulate so
>that they can sell the poor pups for big dollars. None of this is the
>fault of the dogs individually or the breed as a whole, but the net
>effect remains that a great breed suffers. Anyone who would argue that
>todays American bred GSD is, as a whole, on par with the quality of the
>GSD's available before the boom in the 50's is, in your own unique
>vocabulary, "freakin' clueless."
And where exactly did I ever say ANYTHING like that???? Are you
freakin' BLIND and DUMB??? Or do you just like to put words into
other people's mouths?
>There is a reason that the seeing eye people breed their own dogs,
They do that to assure themselves of SOUND SPECIMENS, eh?
>and
>it's not that they need the extra work, and why people looking for GSD's
>for serious work import German bred dogs, and it's not because they enjoy
>paying a fortune and dealing with the fine people in U.S. Customs, Fish
>and Wildlife, Agriculture, and any other bureaucrats who can get their
>little fingers in the pie. It's because the health and temperment of the
>available dogs is a hit or miss proposition.
That's because the CLUELESS do not know how to find/breed SOUND
specimens of ANY dog breed.
>The same breed in Germany doesn't have the problems that their American
>brethern have.
That's because there are more DOOFUSES in America than in Germany.
See the 1992 Presidential election results for evidence of that, eh?
> I would argue that it is the popularity that did it, and
>the resulting demand for the dogs, without the German oversight into
>which dogs may breed and which may not. I would also argue that the AKC
>fashion show has played a part, in that the dog doesn't have to show any
>working ability to become a champion, but that is another subject
>entirely.
It's simply because of CLUELESS DOOFUSES. And they are EVERYWHERE.
>Now look at that Joe, a logical, adult reply without any name calling.
Listen up! YOU started this, not I. And for failing to recognize
that, you are now an Honorary Member of "The List." Report to Annie
first thing in the morning. She'll fill your NEW prescription for
you.
>What a concept. Of course, maybe it's not as fun for you to post without
>using the word "freaking," but perhaps you could give it a try. Have a
>nice day.
Actually, Dennis, "freakin'" IS my favorite word. But that's only
because there are so many FREAKIN' doofuses. Heh, heh, heh.
Armin Boehm
of my native home town (some 100.000 inhabitants) without lash, either
by foot or by bike. (Now he is some 15 years old, and has to go by lash,
because he has become so hard of hearing, and we no longer bike anymore.)
On the other hand, my dog teached me to see him not for a slave when f.ex.
in summer I forbid him to jump in the nearby river (I wanted to avoid a
wet schnauzer in the apartment), but 20 yards later he disappeared with
a "it's so hot and the water is COOL" splash in the river ...
Is there anyone who calls my dog a DOOFUS?
Herbert Hirschfelder & Baloo
P.S.: This is NOT an answer to J "R" F -- I think he is disqualified
for any answer by his rude kind of mailing. (Who followed the
"Pinch vs. Collar choke" discussion, which ended up in the
"Kill file for pinocchio" chat, knows enough bad examples.)
Joe Finocchiaro
(Armin Boehm) wrote:
>I educated my Schnauzer so well that I could walk with him in the city
>of my native home town (some 100.000 inhabitants) without lash, either
>by foot or by bike. (Now he is some 15 years old, and has to go by lash,
>because he has become so hard of hearing, and we no longer bike anymore.)
Just about anybody COULD walk their dog without a leash OR collar if
they would FIRST learn to use the LONGE properly.
>On the other hand, my dog teached me to see him not for a slave when f.ex.
>in summer I forbid him to jump in the nearby river (I wanted to avoid a
>wet schnauzer in the apartment), but 20 yards later he disappeared with
>a "it's so hot and the water is COOL" splash in the river
>
>Is there anyone who calls my dog a DOOFUS?
Not your DOG, Herbie, YOU. Your DOG sounds like HE has a clue. The
jury is still out on YOU, eh?
>Herbert Hirschfelder & Baloo
>
>P.S.: This is NOT an answer to J "R" F -- I think he is disqualified
> for any answer by his rude kind of mailing. (Who followed the
> "Pinch vs. Collar choke" discussion, which ended up in the
> "Kill file for pinocchio" chat, knows enough bad examples.)
Herbie, it's lucky for us all that YOU don't get to decide diddly
squat in THIS country, let alone who is "disqualified."
PS: Remember what happened the LAST time a European fascist decided
who was "disqualified"?
--
Terry Phelps
I like both breeds, but for protection get a shephard, if brought from
a rep. breeder you should get a great thinking dog, one recieved very
early in age will bond instantly and make a great protecter, but you
must socialize some if any sign of shyness, the giants that i have met
have been big babies and I would not trust my life to their protection
unless they have been specifally trained, and there is the grooming, I
am a groomer so i know, good luck
Brad Shell <rye...@email.sps.mot.com> wrote:
>I was wondering which one you folks might suggest. I am looking for
>both a companion and protection. There is a lot of crime in my
>neighborhood and need someone to watch over my girlfriend when I'm away
>on business. I would also like to train it, so that they'll only eat
>from certain people. I lost my dog last year to someone throwing
>poisoned meat over the fence and he ate it!
>Other suggestions would be appreciated.
>regards
>Brad
Gail B. Mackiernan
being a "big teddy bear" but they are *not* -- Werner Jung
(pinscher-schnauzer guru, breed warden for the PSK in mid-century) wrote
to the effect that Giant Schnauzer owners "are often surprised when
their big teddy bear turns into a fearless and fierce protector when
their family is threatened."
Either GSD or GS would be excellent protectors, the Giant is often more
outgoing with strangers (but not always!) and is much more powerful for
its size.
Correct Giant coats require very little grooming, but unfortunately the
soft profuse coat has become the norm as judges and breeders look to
show wins rather than working ability. If you get a Giant, be sure it
has the correct wiry coat. At 12 weeks, the body coat should be pretty
flat and there should only be a start of beard. Avoid the cute fluffy
pup like the plague.