SCAM BREEDS UPDATE...
ElizabethK
keep adding to the list as you see them advertised.
Peke-apoo Charley Bears
Poochis Malti Poo
PiKi Schnoodle
Mini Dalmatians Cockapoo
Sleve Pekingese Toy Munchkin
Imperial Shih Tzu Teacup Poodle
Llasa Poo Teacup Chihuahua
Ori Pei Mini Bulldog
American Pugsley Royal Poodle
Labradoodle Mini Chow Chow
Mini Great Dane Mini/Toy Sheltie
Mi Ki Princess Di Terriers
Dawgies Mini Golden
Pocket Poodle American Cream
Pocket Beagle Golden Labs
American Mastiff Shiloh Shepherd
King Great Dane Golden Labs
King Doberman Warlock Dobermans
Ocherese Bandog.
The following are often advertised as "rare' - though may be purebred,
but again whether bred on purpose or as a colour appearing in an
otherwise normally coloured litter, sold as "rare" to dupe the public
into often paying a large price for a seriously mismarked dog which
should not be used for breeding and cannot be shown. Beware of dogs
advertised as such and before buying these dogs - do your homework.
Please note also that many so-called "rare" colours often have some
devastating genetic or colour-linked problems accompanying them. Many
white dogs can be deaf or blind or become so later in life. This does
not apply to breeds in which the white colour is an accepted part of
the breed.
Red Rottweiler White
Schnauzer
White Boxer White
Labradors
White Doberman
Merle Great Danes
(do not confuse Merle with Blue - an accepted colour, in the Dane
breed.)
Because of the many accepted colours in the Dane breed, BYB's, puppy
mills and other irresponsible breeders often mix colours thereby
producing all sort of stange colour patterns, none of which should be
bred from and none of which are worth any more than any other pet
quality mismarked puppy. If you are offered a strangely marked or
coloured Dane - especially if it has been represented as "rare" by
it's breeder, check first with your local Great Dane club. Vets often
have lists of clubs in your area. Or ask here! Don't add to the bank
account of scam artists!
About Shiloh Shepherds. Well considering they were originally
oversized GSD's with often long fluffy type coats which would have
seiously faulted by the Standard for the breed in most countries, they
would seem to be rather like the Royal Poodles - a purebred dog but
one not meeting the standard and being called something else and with
enough people being duped into buying one, trying to call it a
"breed". It is - it's an oversized German Shepherd often with a
longish coat. And I have seen some which were not even oversized. Just
poor quality dogs with long coats. And one would think in this day an
age if they "were" making a new breed or trying to, they would have
started out right and not produced a whole lot of displastic dogs
which now seem to have a foothold in these dogs called Shiloh
Shepherds. They have no history of their own, were bred for no
particular purpose and were just as far as I can make out, just
oversized German Shepherds. Like the Toy Munchkin, they have a
following but that does not make them a breed. Just someone messing up
an already known breed rather than putting their efforts into
preserving properly that which already exists.
Liz
Christy
various breeds that those should be categorized separately. I.E. have one
list of "scam breeds" such as the poo mixes and Mi Kis; another list of
"rare color" scams in accepted breeds; and a third list of "rare size" scams
of accepted breeds. Maybe if you could get this up on the web (and hey, link
it to the ConKC faq, since these topics go hand in hand!) then it would be
an easy reference when people post inquiries and/or ads for these "breeds."
Also, these are some breeds that I've always thought might be questionable
(if anyone has refutable info on why they are legitimate breeds please
correct me!)
Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog
Olde English Bulldogge
Eurasier
Also, might want to add "phantom" and "party color" (particolor) poodles to
the list as well.
Anyone visited the new ConKC site lately? They have a long, cheesy flash
animation on the homepage that reminds me of filmstrips from Jr. High.
Christy
ElizabethK <eliza...@nospamearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:383cc386...@news.earthlink.net...
Unitrust
Christy wrote:
> Eurasier
Eurasier is accepted in Europe.
Best regards,
Maris
la...@online.ee
http://www.online.ee/~unitrust/dober/ingl/index2.html
Satu
>Eurasier
Legitimate breed. In FCI classification class 5 (Spitz and primitive
types), section 5 (Asian Spitz and related breeds). It's a German
breed, development started in the 1950's with wolf-spitz, chow-chows
and samoyed. Recognized by the FCI since 1973.
Eurasier Community on the web: http://www.eurasier.com/
For pictures, see http://www.koirat.com/eurasi/kuvat.htm
Satu
--
Finnish Show and Pet Mice - http://come.to/finnmouse/
Finnish Pharaoh Club - http://get.to/sfk
SeraphimST
it? Or is it still being made? I am curious to see it.
Kim Miller
Kim Miller
Personal Homepage: www.geocities.com/tangodream1
E-Mail: dreams...@yahoo.com
ICQ: 48547727
ElizabethK
>I am coming into this thread pretty late. But is there a site with the list on
>it? Or is it still being made? I am curious to see it.
I thought of it just a few days ago and am trying to keep up with all
the breeds that are being suggested. And certainly thank all those who
have offered suggestions and breeds. I will try to sort them into
groups as soon as I am able.
Liz
ElizabethK
>In article <19991125084256...@ng-fq1.aol.com>,
>serap...@aol.com (SeraphimST) wrote:
>
>> I am coming into this thread pretty late. But is there a site with the
>list on
>> it? Or is it still being made? I am curious to see it.
>
>It's still a work in progress.
>And I'll bet Liz didn't expect quite all the work she's getting. hee-hee. :-D
>
You got that right!!
But I look at it this way - its all for a good cause and if it helps
someone not make a bad mistake and stops some idiot making money off
his dogs - then it's worth the trouble.
Liz
Christy
rumors of it not being an actual breed that breeds true. I'm not sure it is
found in the US much if at all.
Christy
Satu <sat...@utu.fi> wrote in message news:383f38f7...@news.utu.fi...
Angie
lines) listed in the washington post. It's a lab and standard poodle mix
coming on yellow and black and selling for $150+.
--
Angie
Testarossa
--
- Testa...@Cheerful.com
icq # 12410180
http://www.members.home.net/testarossa
Plus: Ginger (Lhasa Apso), Cisco and Cassy (Ferrets), Poppy (Cockatiel),
and Numberless Fish! We'll always love you, Sunny (Lovebird) and Sydney
(Budgie).
The Carrolls
>>It's still a work in progress.
>>And I'll bet Liz didn't expect quite all the work she's getting. hee-hee.
:-D
>>
>You got that right!!
>But I look at it this way - its all for a good cause and if it helps
>someone not make a bad mistake and stops some idiot making money off
>his dogs - then it's worth the trouble.
>Liz
>
I'm hoping to use the list as well to create a site about the scam breeds
out there...not exactly copying your ideas, but I figure the more people
that make one, the more likely people are to come across the information.
~Emily
The Carrolls
I'm unsure as to the validity of this variety, so if anyone knowledgable
cares to clue me in...
~Emily
igua...@my-deja.com
very general because I don't want to type my long message a second time.
Some more "breeds" for your scam list
Gizmo-monkey dog
Asian shepherd
American tunnel terrier
Lemon Dalmatian
Titan terrier
Canis panther
Puglet
Bichon-poo
Cocker-chon
Malta-chon
Pug-a-pin
Schnauzer-chon
Welshy-chon
Westi-nese
Shih-Poo
Lhasa-Peke Hybrid
Beagle-nese
Pug-Wire Fox
Jackwawa
Bull Arab
I have information and some sites for these but as this is the second
typing of this message I'm not going to put that unless someone asks me.
The man who is breeding the Lady Di terrier also breeds the American
Treeing Terrier it may be another breed or it may not. It is a cross
between the Manchester and smooth fox and is red sable in color.
In Australia there is a bandog with a standard and a registry. It
started as a mix of pit bull and Neopolitan and crossed back to a pit
bull. Ask me if you want me to find the link again.
Crevasseau(Antarctic husky)-Does anyone know about this one? I saw it
at
the World Wide Kennel Club messageboard. The breeder wouldn't talk to
me though.
I thought the pi-ki was a spoof of the mi-ki. Is someone actually
trying to sell pi-kis?
Hopefully I send this message correctly. I hoped I've helped you
ElizabethK. I may find some more if I look though my notebooks. Before
then though when I have more time I'll send what I know about the ones
I've mentioned.
Iguanabbq
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Tara
Satu wrote:
>
> igua...@my-deja.com kirjoitti:
>
> >Cocker-chon
>
> Chon?
>
> I can't place this appreviation to anything...
My guess is its either a typo or a Cocker/Bichon cross.....
Tara
Melissa Wright
breeder myself and knowing several breeders who themselves use Merles
for breeding I don't see why you put Merles on your list. One of the top
Harlequins showing right now was out of a Merle bitch, his name is
INT'LCH Caprata's Scooby Doo Of Alpine. His dam has produced some of the
best show marked Harles I have ever seen. It is true that the Merles
carry the deaf gene bred to the right color you get exceptional color. I
can tell you right now as far as the King Dane and the Mini Dane it is
not just byb, and irresponsible breeders that are at fault for these
kind of animals. It is also the fault of supposed responsible breeders
who do sister to brother breedings and half sister to half brother
breedings that are also causing problems for this breed. If you are
going to talk about the color of Danes then perhaps you might mention
that Black should not appear on a Harles, Fawns or Brindles Pedigree.
That Fawn and Brindle should not appear on a Blues pedgree. If all
breeders would take responsiblty for their breedings and AKC would
question some of these breeders habits then maybe all breeds of dogs
would be better off. Wright's Danes
Satu
ElizabethK
Wright) wrote:
>Hi, I don;t know what your problem is with Merle Danes, but as a
>breeder myself and knowing several breeders who themselves use Merles
>for breeding I don't see why you put Merles on your list. One of the top
>Harlequins showing right now was out of a Merle bitch, his name is
>INT'LCH Caprata's Scooby Doo Of Alpine. His dam has produced some of the
>best show marked Harles I have ever seen. It is true that the Merles
>carry the deaf gene bred to the right color you get exceptional color.
Since the Merle colour pattern in theGreat Dane "can" in fact cause
problems, and since it is also a disqualifying colour in the standard,
then this "is" the very reason that they should be spayed and
neutered. With so many good Harlequins about why breed a dog which
cannot be shown? Bad enough that there are already many out there
being bred wholsale by those who know nothing of the probability of
producing genetic nightmares. Not just in the Merle colour but in
Harlequins also. I think the least knowledgeable people can do, is to
make sure as few as possible reach the JQP who will no doubt want to
breed. This quite apart from the fact that since one can get
exceptional colours from breeding dogs which can be shown and
therefore lend some credence to their breeding worth, I personally
feel it would be preferable over the breeding of Merles. It just
happens to be something I would not do. I realise it has found favour
in some circles but not in this one. You cite one example of a Merle
who has produced a well known dog. There are thousands of Harlequin
dogs and bitches who have also produced well known dogs. As they are a
disqualifying fault, and there are God knows, enough colours already
in the breed, "and" within the Harlequin pattern, I personally don't
like to see them on a pedigree,or being bred.
>can tell you right now as far as the King Dane and the Mini Dane it is
>not just byb, and irresponsible breeders that are at fault for these
>kind of animals. It is also the fault of supposed responsible breeders
>who do sister to brother breedings and half sister to half brother
>breedings that are also causing problems for this breed.
I personally have not looked at Dane pedigrees lately so am unaware of
top kennels breeding brother and sisters. I should be interested to
know "why" and "who" however, since it would not prove much
genetically or anything else with such a breeding. I would have to
know the line and the dogs considered for 1/2 brother/sister breedings
to comment but the sire or dam they had in common would have to be a
rare bird indeed to warrant it I think. However, I can think of dogs -
not of mine, where it might have been an interesting breeding and a
breeding which I would have been interested in watching.
If you are
>going to talk about the color of Danes then perhaps you might mention
>that Black should not appear on a Harles, Fawns or Brindles Pedigree.
It is within the many Black type dogs seen in the Dane that the
average person gets overwhelmed, although it is pretty easy really.
Black dogs from Harlequin backgrounds can and do have a place on a
Harlequin pedigree. Just as Mantles can and do. Nothing wrong with
that.
Now a black from an all Black and Blue type pedigree have no place on
a Harle pedigree. One would have to know the dogs, their colours and
the pedigrees well of course. I have bred Blacks from Harlequin
breedings to Harles and produced nice Harlequins.
>That Fawn and Brindle should not appear on a Blues pedgree.
Personally I like to see Black and Blue pedigrees containing only
those colours.
I like to see Fawn and Brindle pedigrees containing only "those"
colours also.
I do not like to see Black and Blue pedigrees with other colours
therein. And these days the gene pool in every colour is such that I
think it becomes unnecessary to mix colours in the breed.
>If all
>breeders would take responsiblty for their breedings and AKC would
>question some of these breeders habits then maybe all breeds of dogs
>would be better off. Wright's Danes
Well I have to agree there, but not all do and few do anywhere near
the research necessary to know the pedigrees and dogs therein in the
breed in which they seek to produce puppies.
It I could comment on the breed in general as I see it as the moment,
it would be that I find the breed as a whole a lot more whippety and
lighweight in body that I like or saw 30 years ago. I see some
horrible low tail sets in Harlequins. Horrible snipey little muzzles
in Harles also. I personally still like what we used to call "German"
heads, and much beefier bodies.
Actually a few months back there was a huge thread in this group about
the Great Danes and colours and problems etc. and it was interesting
to see just how many Dane people we have who watch this newsgroup
regularly.
Liz
>
Britpony
>
>Chon?
>
>I can't place this appreviation to anything...
I think they meant Chaka-khan, the rare disco dog that was very popular from
the mid- to late seventies.
Jana
Parker & Brittany
*on vacation - please don't reply but if you must, direct mail to
coll...@juno.com.
Susanna
Pussel
Poodle X Jack Russel
I have a friend who bought one... a male. The poor thing has
all the liveliness from a Poodle, and all the sharpness and
stubborness from the Jack Russel.
He bites when kommanded, he will urinate where he will, he
can't be still one moment.... now they are going to put him
down, he is only 1 1/2 years old. And they have had terriers
befora, they have a Aussie Terrier who is very well
behavied. This dog is just not trainable.
--
Susanna
sil...@netti.fi
http://www.netti.fi/~silverg
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=17223&a=72165
Britpony <brit...@aol.com> kirjoitti
viestissä:19991128003318...@ng-cj1.aol.com...
Melissa Wright
should not be breeding any colors. I forgot about blacks out of harle
breeding but they are OK to be on Harle pedigrees. It wasn't all that
long ago that Mantles where a non recognised color in the ring, and what
about blacks with white they still ae not showable so should we not use
them for breeding also, just because they aren't recognised in the ring.
As far as the breeders who are inbreeding you can see their adds at the
Great Dane Reporter or the Dane World, I don't want to mention names
because I have to show against some of these breeders. I also only show
naturaled eared dogs, I would not be showing if you still had to do
ears. Wright's Danes
Rocky
<19991128003318...@ng-cj1.aol.com>:
> I think they meant Chaka-khan, the rare disco dog that was
> very popular from the mid- to late seventies.
The one with the easily-groomed velour coat?
--Matt
ElizabethK
Actually I have never seen a dog so outstandingly incredible in the
breed, in a colour which was a disqualifying fault, which I would have
considered over a coloured dog which had been shown and gained some
points or finished. And with the added problems which Merles possess
then I still cannot see any good reason why anyone is breeding them,
except for the many backyard breeders, who, upon getting several free
or cheap from other breeders who should know better, churn them out ad
nauseum purely for $$$. I recently met, on the internet, a lady who
has Brindle bitches and one Merle dog. She tells me she is breeding
"for the pet market"!! With the thousands of Danes in rescue I think
everyone knows there is no need for any pet market breeding. Of course
it was painfully obvious that she sells the resulting - often quite
horrible messy colours, as "rare" to an uneducated public for $$$ and
probably much more than they are worth.
I am sorry, but I shall never be swayed from my thinking about
breeding Merle Great Danes - and the problem for their huge numbers
has only come about in recent years when everyone and their uncle
decided to get in on "the colours". When only a very few careful
breeders with the good of the breed in mind were breeding Harles even
the rescues were needed only infrequently. While I know there are many
more of every colour being found in rescues these days, I guarantee
the majority will have come from careless Harlequin breeding.
Liz
ElizabethK
Bjorklund) wrote:
>In article <38408bce...@news.earthlink.net>,
>ElizabethK <eliza...@nospamearthlink.net> wrote:
>>On Sat, 27 Nov 1999 19:55:41 -0500 (EST), asl...@webtv.net (Melissa
>>Wright) wrote:
>>
>>>Hi, I don;t know what your problem is with Merle Danes, but as a
>>>breeder myself and knowing several breeders who themselves use Merles
>>>for breeding I don't see why you put Merles on your list. One of the top
>>>Harlequins showing right now was out of a Merle bitch, his name is
>>>INT'LCH Caprata's Scooby Doo Of Alpine. His dam has produced some of the
>>>best show marked Harles I have ever seen. It is true that the Merles
>>>carry the deaf gene bred to the right color you get exceptional color.
>>
>>Since the Merle colour pattern in theGreat Dane "can" in fact cause
>>problems, and since it is also a disqualifying colour in the standard,
>>then this "is" the very reason that they should be spayed and
>>neutered.
>
>Really dumb genetic question here. I thought "merle" was a heterozygote
>combination of three tightly linked genes, one set being "wild type" one
>set being a variant of a 'white' which carries all the trouble including
>deafness. If that is correct than you can breed a merle in order to get
>the wild type gene in any non merle off spring with no danger of the "bad"
>part of the merle gene being passed on.
>
>Okay, I may not know what I am talking about. So what is a "merle" and why
>would one want to get rid of it in a line?
>
>I'm curious because my Princess is a merle.
>
>Natalie
The various interractions of the M or MM or merling gene is something
which has been written of much and by some well known people with
varying degrees of knowledge and ideas on genetics and particularly
Danes.
A good place to start if you are interested in such things is
http://www.gvn.net/~daneaffr/colinher.html
With all due respect to Jane there are a few things here which I
personally don't agree with and she in turn lists some findings of
others which she herself doesn't agree with. It is a complicated
problem but one which comes up constantly when one sees how many blind
and or deaf Danes are around now and many placed in rescue and looking
for homes.
As someone who has had Danes for well over 40 years now I see no
reason why Merles cannot make nice pets, and indeed many are very
pretty, but I see no reason to add them to the pedigree of any
breeding when they are still a disqualifying factor within the breed
and cannot be shown. I think most responsible breeders today at least
try to make sure that the parents of the offspring they intend to
bring into the world - already overfilled, are of the best quality
possible, and who have in some realm proved their breeding worth. The
show ring is certainly a place where this can help. Why bother
breeding to a dog who will never be shown when you can as a breeders,
breed to a top knotch dog, who has proven himself in the ring and
obviously under several different judges, and who has probably also
had a chance to prove himself as a sire etc. In years to come a dog of
note will be much easier for the person studying old pedigrees to find
out about than some dog who was, because of his colour, only known as
the sire of a litter and outside of that known to very few. While I
have never gone to only top dogs who were winning at the time, I
certainly would chose a dog of known quantity over one who might have
a hard time making any name for himself outside of the fact that he
had working testicles. And in encouraging the breeding of Merles it
adds other factors to the mix.
There are other interesting pages relating to the inheritance of coat
colour and I can search them out if you need them.
Liz
Melissa Wright
problems do they have. I do not want to start a argument just curious. I
have seen Harles in the show ring with tons of Merle on them and because
of the owner or handler they are getting their Champion ship this is
not fair when there are better marked Harles in the ring. If you are
going to raise Harles you are going to have Merles. Like I said I sell
Merles to people as pets only. I do use Merles myself for breeding and
have yet to have one deaf Dane. I did rescue a deaf Dane but not only
where the parents related they where both Merles them selves. I also
know a man who does not use Merles in his breeding, but has very strong
BMW lines and is constantly having whites. In his last litter of eight
puppies only two where Harles the other five where whites and one Merle.
What is he doing wrong, if he isn't using Merles then why so many
whites. Wright's Danes
ElizabethK
Wright) wrote:
>Ok I already know about the deaf gene in Merles, so what other health
>problems do they have.
The problems do not necessarily lie in the Merles themselves but often
in the breeding of them - and more often than not in those who
shouldn't be breeding at all.
> I do not want to start a argument just curious.
And I too am always curious about those who feel they should breed
Merles. I have stated before that there are so many other allowed
colours in the Harlequin pattern, "and" who can prove their breeding
worth in the first place by being shown, that I still do not
understand anyone bothing to breed a disqualifying colour unless of
course it is backyard breeders who don't know what they are doing,
don't care about the breed and don't care what the pedigree shows.
>have seen Harles in the show ring with tons of Merle on them and because
>of the owner or handler they are getting their Champion ship
>this is
>not fair when there are better marked Harles in the ring.
Well Melissa in the standard - though I have not read it of late, it
"used" to say anyway, that some Merle patches were allowable on
Harlequins. There again, it is up to the judge how much Merle is too
much. I should think we all agree that the less patches of Merle the
better however in a Harle dog.
In my opinion there is a lot more to a top quality Harle than just
colour alone, so maybe some of those you have seen sporting lots of
Merle spots, were overall better quality than the dog who was not. Of
my last three Harle males I would say the best marked one was not the
best dog - if one imagined them all plain black or white for instance.
Obviously colour in the coloured dogs is an important factor but not
the only one.
It is usually those who have inferior dogs who wail on and on about
certain owners and handlers always winning. With a good quality well
trained dog "anyone" can go into the ring and win. I just spoke to a
fellow with a very popular giant breed. This was not only his first
show dog - but his first dog ever! He finished this dog in double
quick time. He practiced ring procedure, training his dog - went in
their and won - big time. And yes anyone can do it.
Again tho, in my opinion, I see lots of Danes with championships these
days that I would not put up or even place if I were judging. I think
the Harles in particular are looking pretty poor and that goes for
many Mantles too. No doubt there will for a time also be many Mantles
who will win points and championships on colour alone since they are
new to the ring.
To be honest most of them more resemble Greyhounds to me than Danes
and a good wind could blow them over.
> If you are
>going to raise Harles you are going to have Merles. Like I said I sell
>Merles to people as pets only. I do use Merles myself for breeding and
>have yet to have one deaf Dane
So is the Merle you use of such exceptional quality that he is better
than any Harle dog around that you could use, who might have been
shown and had a chance to prove himself in the ring? Or the last
living of in incredible line of Danes which you want to save? I would
think of using a Merle dog only as a very last resort not to lose a
line or something like that. And they sure don't add anything much to
a pedigree.
>I did rescue a deaf Dane but not only
>where the parents related
Almost all Danes of a colour are related and you seem to be only for
complete outcrossing - noting comments you have made elsewhere.
Linebreeding and even inbreeding might have it's place in the kennels
of those breeders who know what they are doing. Outcrossing to me
anyway, always gives one an unknown quantity as far as offspring go.
>they where both Merles them selves.
A typical example of someone who breeds for dollars and the original
breeder not placing her dogs well or spaying and neutering before
placing.
>I also
>know a man who does not use Merles in his breeding, but has very strong
>BMW lines and is constantly having whites. In his last litter of eight
>puppies only two where Harles the other five where whites and one Merle.
>What is he doing wrong, if he isn't using Merles then why so many
>whites. Wright's Danes
Watching Danes and especially Harlequin breeding for almost half a
century I would say when it became very fashionable in the US to get
away from overall black patches, and breed dogs with more and more
large areas of white with fewer and fewer black areas, breeding for
pure white necks, front legs etc. "that" is when we started to see
many more white dogs appear than in previous years, and of course with
a white dog often comes problems other than colour. In the early days
one very seldom saw white dogs appear in litters. Almost all were
probably what one would think of today as being heavily marked Harles.
Of course there were the accompanying Mantles, Blacks - often with
some white, and Merles. Almost everyone put their Merles to sleep at
birth. Few found their way into the market even as pets and nobody
ever bred to them except the odd backyard breeder who was able to
find one cheap or free.
Mantles, known then as Bostons, "were" however used as time went on by
those with very lightly marked dogs, hoping to keep the pure white
fronts and necks and keep the black patching where it was supposed to
be. But even Mantles were not used that much. Not as much as in recent
years when many found they had been breeding generations of overly
white dogs and finally producing dogs with not enough patching. So to
the Mantles they took these very white dogs rather than to other
Harles with few patches.
I could almost put a year on when all this began to change and
certainly know who started the trend. While I like a dog with largish
patches over many many Dalmatian like spotting, I do think the trend
toward very white dogs with few patches has gone overboard and
perpetuated by a few very well known kennels caused problems which had
previously been almost unknown.
Liz
>
The Carrolls
have seen Harles in the show ring with tons of Merle on them and because
of the owner or handler they are getting their Champion ship this is
going to raise Harles you are going to have Merles. Like I said I sell
Merles to people as pets only. I do use Merles myself for breeding and
where the parents related they where both Merles them selves. I also
know a man who does not use Merles in his breeding, but has very strong
BMW lines and is constantly having whites. In his last litter of eight
puppies only two where Harles the other five where whites and one Merle.
What is he doing wrong, if he isn't using Merles then why so many
whites. Wright's Danes
Merles are also prone to blindness, and often they are reabsorbed by the dam
before birth. (Double merles, not heterozygous merles, which are perfectly
fine). I don't know much about the genetics behind harles, and would be
very curious as to how they get thier color.
~Emily
Toni
> Again tho, in my opinion, I see lots of Danes with championships these
> days that I would not put up or even place if I were judging. I think
> the Harles in particular are looking pretty poor and that goes for
> many Mantles too.
This is sad-- when I was in the Working Group (with a Briard... yes, that
long ago) the Harl's were the only ones you could count on to have
sufficient bone to 'work'.
I had assumed that the Mantle infusion was in place to preserve that.....
As a non-Dane person, I can only say that they are looking pretty poorly
lately.
--
Toni
www.irish-wolfhounds.com
ElizabethK
<To...@irish-wolfhoundsSPAM.com> wrote:
>
>ElizabethK <eliza...@nospamearthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:3842d94f...@news.earthlink.net...
>> Again tho, in my opinion, I see lots of Danes with championships these
>> days that I would not put up or even place if I were judging. I think
>> the Harles in particular are looking pretty poor and that goes for
>> many Mantles too.
>
>This is sad-- when I was in the Working Group (with a Briard... yes, that
>long ago) the Harl's were the only ones you could count on to have
>sufficient bone to 'work'.
>I had assumed that the Mantle infusion was in place to preserve that.....
>
>As a non-Dane person, I can only say that they are looking pretty poorly
>lately.
>
No. Mantles have only recently been recognised as being able to be
shown, but again have all come form Harle breeding so the same quality
abounds. A friend - who views this list, was showing her lovely Harle
male a few months back and the judge actually said how nice it was to
see a Harle with bone. So I guess others are noticing it too.
Liz
>--
>Toni
>www.irish-wolfhounds.com
>
>
>
ElizabethK
<car...@dundee.net> wrote:
>Merles are also prone to blindness, and often they are reabsorbed by the dam
>before birth. (Double merles, not heterozygous merles, which are perfectly
>fine). I don't know much about the genetics behind harles, and would be
>very curious as to how they get thier color.
>
>~Emily
>
>
Emily,
Though many think otherwise, there are those who think and have
written in public forums, that all Harlequins should be put to sleep
at birth and Merles allowed to be shown and bred. Their thinking is
that Merles are healthier than Harles and the other colour patterns
associated with Harle breeding. Healthier - well I don't know of any
reliable studies but have known very old dogs in Merle, Harle and
Black from Harlequin breedings. I know of no Mantle studies and have
known no Mantle dogs personally who lived to a great age. Years ago I
would have felt pretty safe in saying that on the whole, Harles and
accompanying colours tended to live longer than other Colours in
Danes. Now - well I don't know.
I "tend" to feel, having seen many newborn Dane pups, that Merles are
often indeed larger than their other coloured siblings. Reason? I
don't know why.
And in book and on the internet you can still read all kinds of
different ideas of exactly what genetic group each belongs to and what
effect this and that gene have on the others etc. Even after all this
time with many really knowledgeable geneticists "having at it" in the
Harle colouring and the lethal genes which sometimes accompany it,
there is still disagreement in some quarters. And in other breeds the
Merle gene often acts differently from the Dane Merle gene. Difficult
to pin down everywhere it seems and what one reads today might change
completely in the near future with other ideas coming to the fore.
Liz
pere...@my-deja.com
> Merles are also prone to blindness, and often they are reabsorbed by
the dam
> before birth. (Double merles, not heterozygous merles, which are
perfectly
> fine). I don't know much about the genetics behind harles, and would
be
> very curious as to how they get thier color.
>
> ~Emily
>
>
Someone please clarify this. I have always though that the harlequins
were nothing but merles (homozigotous) with some modyfying factor
thrown in. The books I had read (as the Little's book did not disprove
this. Now I am tempted to do some experimenting.
Melissa Wright
ever seen on a Dane and a wonderful conformation. If he was a Harle
instead of a Merle he would wipe up in the ring. I do not hink that
Merles should be sold to other people who have not been in the breeding
buisness for a long time. These breeders should be very reputable also.
As I said all of my Merles are sold with a limited registery and must be
spay or neutered by six months. I have used my Merle male one time and
kept a Harle out of the litter. I will not use him anymore. Do you not
use black and whites in your breeding just because they can't be shown.
I admit it is to your and the dogs advantage if it can be shown, but
Champion doesn't always beget Champion. I know of some Champions out
there that have not so good temperments, and I think Temperment is very
important. I don't do total out cross breeding I just prefer that the
dogs be related futher back in the pedigree then just their
grandparents. Melissa
Melissa Wright
size, my Merle has both. His chest is 42" around, the top of his leg is
13" around, and he is 38" tall and weighs 220#. He is as sweet as he is
big. Maybe not the tallest Dane, but very heavy body and bone wise. He
has a lovely neck even though it is 30" around. He is very well
proportioned and moves with beautiful forward motion. He is also our
Barn mascot. I am a memeber and investigater for the Indiana Hooved
Animal Humane Soceity. He loves pigs,cows and horses. Actually loves all
things great and small. I use him at our obedience classes when the
instructer gets in a dog that is dog agessive. The dog can threaten to
eat My Male and he just whines and wags his tail. When he was 2yrs old
The instructer was having problems with a miniture Dachshund and asked
me to bring in Storm, well the little best bit Storm on the lip and
wouldn't let go, poor Storm was screaming and trying to get it off. It
finally let go and Storm went and hid behind my legs. No he is not a
coward just really laid back and gentle. Melissa
DogEGrrrl
Maltese/Lhasas
I've seen 2 separated ads for this mix for $100 & $200-$250
Paula
ElizabethK
Thank you Paula but I am trying to keep the list to well known scams
with names such as Toy Munchkin or Peke- apoo.
Liz
ElizabethK
Simply put one could say that Harles are Merles with the ground colour
having cleared to white. However, I wouldn't be tempted to do any
experimenting - just to see....since the results of other's
experimentation are available at every Dane rescue.
Liz
ElizabethK
Melissa
I don't know what brings you to think I don't like Merles. I have in
fact, never said that, and have owned one for 9 years - and paid for
him to join me half way across the world when I moved. And yes he was
whole and no he was never bred.
Your boy sound like a nice pet although on the larger size for me. I
have always preferred a little shorter dog than that.
You should post a photo so we can see him.
Liz
Liz
ElizabethK
I did own one Mantle a long time ago but did not breed her because I
did not consider her breeding quality. If I had an overly white dog of
breeding quality and I didn't want the possibility of getting a
litter of even whiter dogs, then yes, I would use a Mantle - if I
thought he was good enough of course. There are tons of Mantles around
and I have seen few I would like well enough right now to breed to if
I were considering it.
Someone wrote here a while ago that people keep asking her if her Dane
is a Greyhound and seeing most of the Danes today - well I can
understand it.
Liz
Nancy Lawson Muniz
Please note that the 'white Doberman' is NOT actually white, like the
GSD or Boxer, but actually albino... lacks pigment not only to its
coat, but its skin and eyes - is photophobic and is being massively
exploited by irresponsible puppy makers. They are extreemly poor
quality animals as they are the direct descendents of ONE bitch...
inbred over and over for almost twenty years now - and she was a very
poor quality animal to begin with. This, like all the other dogs on
your list, is merely a 'sale gimmick' used to exploit dogs - kinda
sounds like puppy mill, huh?? Anyone making puppies from this list or
even normal AKC dogs, without regard to improving the future of the
breed with all four apsects being considered - health, temperment,
structure and type - are simply making puppies... adding to the severe
overpopulation of dogs that leads to the deaths of hundreds of thousands
of dogs a WEEK in the USA... they don't care about the breeds they
produce or animals in general...
Nancy Lawson Muniz, Wysiwyg Dobermans (and a couple of GWPs for good
measure)
http://www.vermontel.net/~wysiwyg
Melissa Wright
what happened to the real Danes. I think that perhaps AkC did the wrong
thing when they recognised the Mantle. I am seeing a lot of glorified
Blacks and whites in the ring that are being passed as Mantles. I
thinkif AKC is going to pass this color maybe they should make the
standard a little tougher. Wright's Danes
Toni
Melissa Wright <asl...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:13807-38...@storefull-293.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
AKC doesn't decide this- it is done ny the Great Dane Club of America.
I thought you were "in" Danes............?
This is a pretty basic concept.
--
Toni
www.irish-wolfhounds.com
ElizabethK
Wright) wrote:
>I have seen some very greyhound looking Danes winning at shows, I wonder
>what happened to the real Danes. I think that perhaps AkC did the wrong
>thing when they recognised the Mantle. I am seeing a lot of glorified
>Blacks and whites in the ring that are being passed as Mantles. I
>thinkif AKC is going to pass this color maybe they should make the
>standard a little tougher. Wright's Danes
>
I don't think recognising the Mantle was ill advised but the standard
I believe is fairly clear - as set down by the GDCA. It is the judges
who are at fault - if it is as you say happening, for not knowing the
new Mantle standard and maybe putting up dogs who did not meet it. But
there again everything is up to the individual's interpretation of
everything in every breed standard.
What colours are you showing/breeding by the way?
Liz
Lynn Kosmakos
tibbi wrote:
> Oh, if she's following that Arndt woman's lead, based on that article with
> the OFA lies, she doesn't belong to an Dane clubs.
I'd be willing to bet that she doesn't even belong to the local
kennel club, let alone the local or national breed club. There's
just too much misinformation being spouted.
Lynn K.
Melissa Wright
but AKC has the final say as to wether it is accepted or not, just like
when they first tryed to get the Mantle color passed AKC had to vote yes
or no. The standard was not to AKCs satisfaction so GDCA had to revise
the standard. Wright's Danes
Melissa Wright
can't take a persons opinion maybe you should not give any. What has
Linda done to you nothing, what did she find out you where a back yard
breeder, or refuse to sell you a Dane. Wright's Danes
Melissa Wright
my best freind and if you do use him you have to do AI, he doesn't like
to breed I've had every thing checked his thyroid is normaland he has a
high sperm count just doesn't like to breed at least thats what the vet
said. I mainly breed Harles, Brindles and Fawns. The Harles are out of
Michaeldane breeding and the Fawns and Brindles are Sandale and
Sheenwater with a little Meadowood. Wright's Danes
It's Me
Lynn Kosmakos
It's Me wrote:
>
> Is blue rare pomeranians accepted? Worth spending $750.00 on.
Please do more research before buying a dog. Join the national
and local Pomeranian clubs (go to http://www.akc.org for links).
Lynn K.
ElizabethK
Me) wrote:
>Is blue rare pomeranians accepted? Worth spending $750.00 on.
>
You didn't say whether it's bottom was shaved. If so it is worth
$5,000 so I hear. <G>
Liz
ElizabethK
Sheenwater has bred a ton of Danes over the years and some very nice
ones too. However I am surprised that you like Sandale since their
stock is mostly out of half brother and sister matings - What a Guy
and Corbett, which you seemed to be so against in previous posts.
I presume if you breed, then you must also show. Have you finished
dogs in all colours?. I would be interested to see your young stock
out of your Merle which you think so highly of. Have you a home page
with some pics? I have only seen one Michaeldane Harle dog
and he wasn't enough dog for me, although he was young at the time.
I'm still into big beefy dogs that don't look like they will fall over
in a good breeze.
Liz
Toni
> I presume if you breed, then you must also show. Have you finished
> dogs in all colours?. I would be interested to see your young stock
> out of your Merle which you think so highly of. Have you a home page
> with some pics?
As posted on behavior:
"I have a 13 month old Brindle Dane, he is usually very sweet, but here
lately he has started challenging my Alpha position. If I make direct
eye contact with him he will get up and growl in my face and some times
snap at me. Is he just losing his mind or did I do something to
challenge him in his training. I have spanked him before was this the
wrong thing to do. Any advice would be welcomed. Thanks in advance Lee."
I think they're a long way from being a "breeder".
--
Toni
www.irish-wolfhounds.com
The Carrolls
Lynn Kosmakos wrote in message <38460B7D...@home.com>...
>
>
>It's Me wrote:
>>
>> Is blue rare pomeranians accepted? Worth spending $750.00 on.
Blues are not that difficult to come by or create, they should not command
any extra amount of money. Poms are allowed in any color of the rainbow,
and though blue is considered an "exotic" color for the breed, any
acceptable color is not worth more or less than any other color.
~Emily
Melissa Wright
comin in Danes. As far as trolling Pitt Bulls, I was just wondering why
owners of this breed get so pissed off when anything negitave is said
about them. They are certainly not a breed for everyone, but it seems
like most owners think everyone should own one. Is this not what causes
the problem in the first place is everybody thinking they should own
one, when most people shouldn't even own any kind of pet let alone
certain breeds of dogs.It seems like when some people write for a breed
suggestion a lot of people ( Iam Not Saying You) suggest PittBulls. As
far as the x-ray I did make a mistake and I am sorry it was good not
excellent. I still don't know why you have such a big problem with
Linda, she has helped a lot of people who own Danes. I do not think she
is the only Dane person to listen to though, I also really like Jill
Swedlow she is very knowledgable about Danes also. I apologise to those
people who think OFA is the only way to go, I still think PENNHIP is
also good, but I think everyone has a right to use what they want.
Wright's Danes
Melissa Wright
Sandale dogs. I have only been in Danes for five years, so no I have not
finished any yet. I was showing Quarter horses and Paints before. My
nephew came down with a kidney disease. alittle over five years ago we
where suppose to go to the Quarter horse and Paint world show that year,
but because he got sick we couldn't. So we sold all of the horses, and I
got my Merle male for a pet, then my husband decided to start raising
and showing Danes. I have only had two litters so far and it will be two
years before any of my females are old enough to breed. I want to finish
my Brindle male before I use him. It is hard getting started again in
showing dogs. I use to raise and show Rough Collies, then got back into
horses, now back into dogs. I show my dogs natural eared and their are
still a lot of judges who don't like them that way, and with me doing
owner/handler it is even harder. I love showing and if my dogs do not
get their championship it is my fault because I am not known. I do not
hit every show like some people do, My dogs are my best freinds first
show dogs second. I have seen some beautiful dogs that where never
shown, but produced lovely show pups. My last litter of Harles where out
of a son of Michaeldanes Dagon Radar JD. The people who own the sire
don't show, but they buy subadults that have been x-rayed and tested.
They raise Danes that are show quality they just don't like to show,
they use to go with Antonio Pratt to shows and help her.Of course I know
Mrs. Pratt has been kicked out of AKC for ten years and the chances of
her being reinstated at her age are none. I feel sorry for her, when she
first started up the Meistersinger Kennel in Kentucky she had really
nice dogs, but after a while she started buying other peoples dogs and
puting the name on them. My Merle is Meistersinger, VonShrado, and
Shebone bred. Wright's Danes
Melissa Wright
my Merle usually go everywhere with me, but my Dad has been in the
hospital for over a month and I very seldom see them let alone take them
any where. He wouldn't dream of hurting a fly let alone anthing else. He
is just spoiled and doesn't understand what happened to his world.
Wright's Danes
Toni
I believe you said:
"If I make direct eye contact with him he will get up and growl in my face
and some times
snap at me."
This is not boredom. This is an adolescent dog with some issues that need
addressing now. A dog the size of a Dane simply cannot be allowed to get
away with this.
And someone who allows this situation to develop and then dismiss it as
'boredom' is simply IMO not ready to take on the challenges of breeding.
--
Toni
www.irish-wolfhounds.com
Toni
tibbi <ti...@world.citizen> wrote in message
news:tibbi-02129...@216.36.14.84...
> > Therefore, I'm curious about your claim with respect to the GCCA and
> > the AKC over the standard. When was this and where is it documented?
>
>
> I think we'll find that Melissa's "fable" about standards has as much
> truth to it as the one about the OFA. I wonder if it's from the same
> source?
>
If I am remembering correctly (where IS Liz?), the first draft of the
revised standard allowing Mantles was returned to the GDCoA for
clarification. Not that the AKC "didn't like it", but they felt that some of
the finer points needed to be rewritten. It was a semantics problem, not a
color problem.
This is not my breed, and I am relying on memory alone until Liz appears to
tell it exactly, so she'd better hurry :-).
--
Toni
www.irish-wolfhounds.com
Toni
In article <18983-38...@storefull-298.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,
asl...@webtv.net (Melissa Wright) wrote:
> I have only been in Danes for five years, so no I have not
> finished any yet.
Why do you own five intact males and four unspayed females, and claim to be
a breeder?
It's sounding suspicious.....
--
Toni
www.irish-wolfhounds.com
ElizabethK
<To...@irish-wolfhoundsSPAM.com> wrote:
>If I am remembering correctly (where IS Liz?), the first draft of the
>revised standard allowing Mantles was returned to the GDCoA for
>clarification. Not that the AKC "didn't like it", but they felt that some of
>the finer points needed to be rewritten. It was a semantics problem, not a
>color problem.
>
>This is not my breed, and I am relying on memory alone until Liz appears to
>tell it exactly, so she'd better hurry :-).
>
>--
>Toni
>www.irish-wolfhounds.com
>
>
I'm here - up to my ears in downloading my thousands of files on to
floppies which I do every November. I do not have dates in my head but
there was a fairly heated meeting about Bostons - to be later known as
Mantles, in conjuction with the Nationals in '96 I believe. In
December of January of 97 Ballots were sent out and soon after the
colour was adopted at the 6th allowed Colour for the Great Dane breed.
It has in fact been a very recent addition to the Standard.
Back to my files.
Liz
Pamela Hernandez
| As far as trolling Pitt Bulls, I was just wondering why
| owners of this breed get so pissed off when anything negitave is said
| about them. They are certainly not a breed for everyone, but it seems
| like most owners think everyone should own one. |
I currently own 2 pit bulls, I got my first 4 years ago as someone who used
to believe the media hype about these wonderful dogs I can really understand
why pit bull owners get upset when people make negative statements about
this breed. The reason they get upset is because the statements are simply
not true. I agree this breed is not for everyone and I don't think everyone
should own one but I do think they are a great breed of dog and I personally
wouldn't own any other breed. JMO. Pamela
P.S. Pit Bull only has one "t" in it.
Melissa Wright
blame politics although I do think that part sucks. I blame my self for
missing so many shows since my dad has been in and out of the hospital.
Besides I just started showing the Danes this year. I didn't get any
conformation dogs until last year. They where to young to show when I
got them I went to my first conformation show with my Danes this March.
No I did not tear up the ring and I didn't come in last either. When you
show up against Ray Cataldi JR and Michael Chiles you are up against
some of the best in the game. I did Place behind those two though in a
class of 7 puppies so I felt really good. Exspecaily since it was my
first time showing in over 12 year in a dog show, and I was new to the
Dane ring. It was also the first show MY six month old showed in.
Wright's Danes
Melissa Wright
and the other females are only six months old and one of them is going
to Evansville IN. The other two will be breeding stock when they get old
enough. NO, I do not breed on the first heat nor do I breed every heat.
I usually only breed every two years so it will be a while before I have
another litter. Two of the intact males are not Danes one is a Golden
Retreiver he is my agility dog and the other is my 13 yr old Rough
Collie, I think he is a little to old to neuter. One of the Brindle
males was down here at my place to be shown and will be going back home
soon.I co-own him with some one else. Wright's Danes
Melissa Wright
December 2, 1996. The Mantle was not excepted into the conformation
ring until May 14, 1999. There is an article on the GDCA website by Mary
Anne Zanetos. She even said there is no reason that the AKC should
approve the Mantle as the sixth color. Wright's Danes
Melissa Wright
would advise me to do. It was quite interesting what he had to say.
Wright's Danes
Melissa Wright
to approve the Mantle as the sixth color. Mary Anne Zanetos said, There
is no reason for AKC not to approve the Mantle as the Sixth color.
Unless of course Mary Anne Zanetos is a liar to. She of course is a
judge to and very well known in the Great Dane circle. Wright's Danes
Lynn Kosmakos
The Carrolls wrote:
>
> Lynn Kosmakos wrote in message <38460B7D...@home.com>...
Whoops, watch those attributions, Emily. The ? was from
It's me, not me :-)
Lynn K.
Lynn Kosmakos
Melissa Wright wrote:
>
> As far as trolling Pitt Bulls, I was just wondering why
> owners of this breed get so pissed off when anything negitave is said
> about them.
Because it is very bad form to slam the breed other people love.
Would you come onto a discussion forum for purebred dogs and slam
Std. Poodles or Keeshonden? Of course not.
My family bred Great Danes and had a fairly large breeding kennel
all the time I was growing up. The 1st dog I ever took into the
ring was a GD, as a pre-teen. There are many reasons why I have
GSDs instead. But it would be rude and inconsiderate for me to
post the reasons why I prefer GSDs to GDs. And they are my reasons,
after all - not applicable to anyone else.
Why can't people realize that the same rules of conduct apply to
Pit Bull posts?
Lynn K.
Toni
> Toni, I put up a false post just so I could see what dear Jerry Howe
> would advise me to do. It was quite interesting what he had to say.
> Wright's Danes
>
Not quite sure I'm buying this one...
--
Toni
www.irish-wolfhounds.com
Toni
tibbi <ti...@world.citizen> wrote in message
news:tibbi-02129...@216.36.14.84...
>
Yep, but couldn't think of her name....... creepy.
--
Toni
www.irish-wolfhounds.com
Marla Belzowski
asl...@webtv.net (Melissa Wright) wrote:
> I do have my dogs tested, even though now days hip dispylsia is not
that
I'd pull up the info from PennHip for you too if it were available, but
because they don't post their results, there's only this...
Under the Inside the OFA - Prevelance of HD in dogs page
http://www.offa.org/
From Jan 1974 to Dec 1998
Rank Breed #Dog's tested %Excelent % dysplastic
56. Labrador Retriever 103814 14.7 13.2
57. Irish Setter 8005 6.8 13.0
58. Anatolian Shepherd 803 15.3 12.6
59. Great Dane 6315 10.0 12.4
60. Alaskan Malamute 10038 14.6 12.3
61. Border Collie 3174 9.5 12.1
So with that many dogs being dysplastic out of the 6315 tested over
what 24 years, that's a petty high percentage. I'd say it would be
smart to make sure any stud you use was tested.
>I apologise to those
> people who think OFA is the only way to go, I still think PENNHIP is
> also good, but I think everyone has a right to use what they want.
> Wright's Danes
>
>
Hey no offense taken. Serious debate is welcomed around here that is
what discussion groups are all about.
Sure PennHip is fine if you don't mind the expense and what you have to
do to your dog to get it done. I just really have a hard time believing
at 16 weeks you can predict anything in an adult dog and I'm a engineer
that DESIGNS predictive models for running complex pieces of
equipment. Normally, my process control models are statistical
evulations that use a set test procedure and measure definative
results -- Just like the PennHip Method.
Hey can you predict with any accuracy (say within 1/2 of an inch) the
final height of a young child? I think you can get close measuring the
childs height through grade school, and you can place kids in certain
percentiles, but I doubt you can predict within 1/2 of an inch their
final height as an adult. That's exactly what PennHip tries to do with
the joint measurements they take at 16 weeks.
I also work with food products and I can tell you that from season to
season and field to field the same strain of wheat, that makes up your
flour used to bake bread, can result in very diffent quality of bread
even when baked under the exact formualtion and the exact conditions.
That's just the nature of living organisms, they don't always follow
the rules neatly. Chaos Theory really applies here.
I KNOW living plants and animals don't always follow the rigid
construction of predictive models. There is just too much area for
variation and too many factors involved, food, exercise, water quality,
variation of amounts of rest, etc etc can affect development of bones,
muscles, ligaments, tendons..etc... It's a nice idea and I wish the
developers of PennHip the best. I'd just would not take the results on
any dog younger than 2 years old as gospel. Sometimes the classic
methods of evaluation work exceptionally well.
Cheers.
--
Marla Belzowski
& the LegendHold Collie Clan
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
dogsnus
>
> On Thu, 2 Dec 1999 13:00:15 -0500 (EST),asl...@webtv.net (Melissa
> Wright) stitched with finest floss on pure irish linen:
>
> >As far as trolling Pitt Bulls, I was just wondering why
> >owners of this breed get so pissed off when anything negitave is said
> >about them.
> things about Great Danes- they love their dogs. BTW, that would be
> Pit Bulls, with one "t". No relation whatsoever to Brad Pitt.
Chuckle...
Ah Ruth, you DO have a way with subtlety and
wisdom!
Terri
dogsnus
Melissa,
Perhaps when you learn to "quote" properly you
might get more answers
and information. I know for a fact_, that one
highly respected WebTv user
here, has kindly given you the URL on how to do
so.
So, I can only conclude you don't care enough to
learn how to do so,
or are too lazy to bother with it.
Your posts are gibberish to me. Not everyones
newsreader threads things
together as your own does. I haven't a clue as to
what you're speaking
about most of the time, nor to whom, nor upon what
subject.
I'm about ready to killfile you out of sheer
frustration in trying to understand
what the heck it is that you're talking about and
to whom.
Terri
dogsnus
> > There is nothing wrong with my Brindle Male except he is bored. Him and
> > my Merle usually go everywhere with me, but my Dad has been in the
> > hospital for over a month and I very seldom see them let alone take them
> > any where. He wouldn't dream of hurting a fly let alone anthing else. He
> > is just spoiled and doesn't understand what happened to his world.
>
> I believe you said:
> "If I make direct eye contact with him he will get up and growl in my face
> and some times
> snap at me."
>
> This is not boredom. This is an adolescent dog with some issues that need
> addressing now. A dog the size of a Dane simply cannot be allowed to get
> away with this.
> And someone who allows this situation to develop and then dismiss it as
> 'boredom' is simply IMO not ready to take on the challenges of breeding.
Bravo!!!
And that applies to those of us who own_ dominant
breeds like the GSD
and who DONT breed.
DH went back to work this winter for awhile.
The GSDs, and Taffy, who are used to MUCH more
human contact than
they are getting lately get all frisky, wild and
finally, clingy, BUT they
do NOT growl in our faces when we make direct eye
contract.
It's simply not allowed and nothing I've EVER
allowed during
their upraising.
When WE make direct eye contact, it's either them
looking away or
coming up and kissing us that WE get!
Growling as US???
Never!
Terri
4 GSDs later and never_ have I had a dog that
actually
growled at us or in our face!
Simply unacceptable in our den!
Renee
and ...
On Wed, 1 Dec 1999 23:02:57 -0500 (EST), asl...@webtv.net (Melissa
Wright) wrote:
>As I said I used my Merle once and don't plan on using him again, he is
>my best freind and if you do use him you have to do AI, he doesn't like
>to breed
Melissa,
You have a merle male that you used ... and don't plan to use again (good!)...
but you're offering him at stud to someone else?
(A word of advice: Don't come in here speaking like an authority .... there are
a lot of knowledgeable people here that 'you' could learn from. Don't make
enemies of them.)
--
Renee
Visit our Great Danes at http://www.geocities.com/kddane
Vivlafrans
"Siberian Shepherd"... otherwise know to knowing eyes a Husky crossed to a
German Shep. I just about fainted for trying not to explain to this ecstatic
owner that his dog was a fraud. Am I write?
Delphine.
Virginia
Vivlafrans <vivla...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:19991209230326...@ng-fn1.news.cs.com...