Raw Vegtables
KAYJAY0509
I feed my dogs (4) raw vegtables as a treat and they love them. They are
especially fond of carrots and celery sticks, but will also eat cauliflower,
beets, mushrooms, and tomatoes. They also eat watermelon and apples. A friend
told me that I shouldn't be feeling my pets all these raw fruits and vegtables
as they are not good for them. Does anyone know of any problem associated with
feeding dogs these items as treats? I figured if they are healthy for people
they should be healthy for dogs.
KaliServ
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Hello. I have added raw vegtables and fruits to my dogs diet with no adverse
effects. If anything they have helped to improve his health. He has more
energy, easier bowel movements and a better looking coat. I talked this over
with my vet just to be sure and she had no objections.
Just be careful to deseed fruits and veggies as best you can since dogs can
choke on them. It might be a good idea to talk with your vet so he/she can
tell you what fruits and veggies to be careful with or give in moderation.
Hope this helps,
Lyda & Buddy aka. Mr.Stink , you an visit us at
http://members.tripod.com/~SilkyGirl/silkyindex.html
(the yellow screen is a pop-up, just click it down)
Toni
Raw fruits and vegs are the only treats I would ever consider using- my
dogs would scale mountains for a piece of banana.
The end of every day finds us relaxing in the garden, humans and dogs,
happily munching baby carrots! (humans are allowed a beer)
Ahh....this is what it's all about!
Lady DarkRose
There are several fruit/veggie items that are not good for dogs. Among
them are: those of the onion family (all onions, chives, garlic): They
can cause anemia; Apple seeds: can cause vomiting and breathing
difficulties; Cherry pits: Vomitimg, breathing problems and coma; Potato
skins: dry mouth, vomiting, diarrhea; Rhubarb: Vomiting, diarrhea,
depression.
The above list was in the June 98 issue of Dog Fancy.
I have also been giving my Mal fruit as a special treat (when she has
behaved in a manner I consider above average). She didn't think much of
banana, but loves grapes and apples.
Lily
dogsnus
KAYJAY0509 wrote:
>
> I feed my dogs (4) raw vegtables as a treat and they love them. They are
> especially fond of carrots and celery sticks, but will also eat cauliflower,
> beets, mushrooms, and tomatoes. They also eat watermelon and apples. A friend
> told me that I shouldn't be feeling my pets all these raw fruits and vegtables
> as they are not good for them. Does anyone know of any problem associated with
> feeding dogs these items as treats? I figured if they are healthy for people
> they should be healthy for dogs.
The only thing I've heard of being potentially dangerous veggies for
dogs are large quantities of onions.
My dogs love veggies too.
Carrots, tomatoes, broccoli, cauliflower, etc...
For fun, teach them to nibble corn off the cob,
(thanks Jane). They are fun to watch while doing this and they love it.
Terri
LeahV21
I too feed my dogs (2 Rotts, Duchess and Roxy) vegetables. They have been an
excellent treat and "chew toys" for the teething pup. Potatoes are kept in a
basket and eaten as often as they likesnd they get apples and carrots. Apples
have no seeds. To my surprise, they do not abuse the potatoes and eat them
every so often. I was told about this veggie thing by our breeder.
Maije
In article <6k91k8$gid$1...@newsd-112.bryant.webtv.net>, tm...@webtv.net says...
Majyck isn't fond of carrots except as a toy, but she does love fresh green and
red pepper. According to my vet this is fine for her to eat.
Kim and Majyck the APBT of Love
Lady DarkRose
dogsnus wrote:
> For fun, teach them to nibble corn off the cob,
> (thanks Jane). They are fun to watch while doing this and they love it.
When my parents had their Cocker, he LOVED corn on the cob, and would
nibble it in a very gentlemanly fashion! Anything fed by hand was taken
very gently, never snatched. He loved watermelon, and every morning had
a piece of toast with peanutbutter.
Lily
Natalie Rigertas
LeahV21 (lea...@aol.com) wrote:
: Potatoes are kept in a
: basket and eaten as often as they likesnd they get apples and carrots.
Actually, it is the skin of potatoes which can be harmful to dogs.
If the skins are *green* there is still a chemical that is in the potato
skin that causes an adverse reaction in the dog. Please, check your
potatoes before you feed them to the dogs...the chemical is also present
in eyes that have shoots growing from them.
Apples have no seeds.
Yes they do. Nearly every apple I have seen has had seeds in it...those
that haven't were underdeveloped (although I'm not ruling out seedless
apples, that come from grafting like navel oranges).
Onions are also not safe, because of a chemical found in the 'skin'
nrigertas
Pudly
raw vegetables are generally a healthful addition to a dog's diet, but not
exactly for the reason that "what's good for a dog will be good for us."
Dogs are categorized not as carnivores, but as "opportunistic omnivores"
(I'LL SAY!)
My aussie moved a chair to get to the shelf where the bananas were kept, and
knows that strollers are a good place to look for them.
So a little of just about anything is a beneficial addition to the diet.
But dogs are oblivious to what is harmful to them, as well as having no
awareness of what has made them sick in the past. They'll eagerly and
enthusiatically eat themselves into trouble.
A few things to avoid:
CHOCOLATE!
onions (i hear)
corn, especially the cobs, utterly indigestible and can cause blockages.
But my vet/trainer/breeder all recommended carrot sticks and such tidbits as
treats; they work, are healthful, and low in calories.
Pudly
Watch the cobs !!!
they seem like something yummy to chew on, but caused a painful blockage in
my dog when he was a pup, and my vet tells me they're one of the worst
things for that, as they're totally indigestible for them. It was days
before he vomited up the last of the chunks.
Lady DarkRose
Very good point!
When Shammie was given corn on the cob, either mom or I held the cob and
he ate the corn off. We never just gave him the whole thing and let him
have at it.
Lily
Lady DarkRose
Natalie Rigertas wrote:
> Apples have no seeds.
>
> Yes they do. Nearly every apple I have seen has had seeds in it...those
> that haven't were underdeveloped (although I'm not ruling out seedless
> apples, that come from grafting like navel oranges).
Actually, I think she meant that when she gives the dog apples, it is
after the seeds are removed...
Lily
JanshowGSD
Yes raw veg is good for your dog...but the veg needsbreaking down..ie put in
liquidiser to break down the cellulose which dogs cant digest....read 'Give
your dog a bone ' by billinghurst......it is very interesting......regards
jane
E-Mail..JanshowGSD@aol.com
Mandy Williams
I feed my Alaskan Malamute carrots as a treat, and know of several
breeders that have done it for years and have never had problems.
Amanda Williams
Natalie Rigertas
JanshowGSD (jansh...@aol.com) wrote:
: Yes raw veg is good for your dog...but the veg needsbreaking down..ie put in
Isn't the reason for feeding vegetables also to add fiber? If yhou
predigest it, the dog won't get full benefits from it.
nrigertas
LeahV21
I meant that I cut the seeds out when I said "Apples ahve no seeds". No green
potatoes or eyes, we go through them (the family ) too fast.
LeahV21
Thanks Lily
LeahV21
I asked my vet about the chocolate. Although he recommends not giving it to
your dog he also stated that Bakers Chocolate is the danger. Other chocolates,
like candy bars, etc. ahve very little cocoa in them. Just thought I would
pass it along.
Sfj1105
lea...@aol.com (LeahV21) wrote. . .
>I asked my vet about the chocolate. Although he recommends not giving it to
>your dog he also stated that Bakers Chocolate is the danger. Other
>chocolates, like candy bars, etc. ahve very little cocoa in them.
Just read a pet column in my local paper which says. . .
Lethal amounts of baking chocolate are about. . .
an ounce or less for toy/small dogs
2-3 ounces for medium dogs
4-8 ounces for large dogs
Lethal amounts of milk chocolate are
4-10 ounces for small dog
abt 1.5 pounds for medium dog
abt 4.5 pounds for large dog
Which means that one candy bar *could* be lethal for a very small dog.
Stephanie J
Lady DarkRose
I remember years ago our Cocker found my 1 lb solid chocolate Easter
bunny, and ate about half of it before I got it away from him. He never
had a problem. Of course, this was a dog who gobbled up nearly every
pack of Crayola's I ever owned...
Lily
dogsnus
Pudly wrote:
>
> Watch the cobs !!!
the corn off the cobs gently...
Had a dog with a blockage once, *very* senstive to that scenario!
:)
Terri
LeahV21
I agree, but in my case it is 4.5 pounds of chocolate, I have a large dog. Is
there a breed that doesnt eat crayons?? LOL
dogsnus
Im VERY glad your dog didn't suffer from the chocolate, but
beware:
Chocolate senstivity is DIRECTLEY related to the dog.
Not related to breed, either.
What one pound WONT kill, one pound WILL ,in a different dog.
Terri
Check out rpd.health to see some stories..
can...@success.net
>>I feed my dogs (4) raw vegtables as a treat and they love them. They are
>>especially fond of carrots and celery sticks, but will also eat cauliflower,
>>beets, mushrooms, and tomatoes. They also eat watermelon and apples. A
friend
>>told me that I shouldn't be feeling my pets all these raw fruits and
vegtables
>>as they are not good for them. Does anyone know of any problem associated
with
>>feeding dogs these items as treats? I figured if they are healthy for people
>>they should be healthy for dogs.
>
We feed our 2 greyhounds lots of veggies. Crispy lettuce helps keep our male,
Kid, from grazing on the grass. They love carrots, zucchini, tomatoes
(Tiffany picks her own cherry tomatoes in the summer), green beans, peas &
lettuce. They also enjoy fruits: bananas, strawberries, melons, apples,
nectarines, peaches, grapefruit, oranges (Tiffany ate a quarter of a lemon
once).
I've read that onions can cause anemia & should not be fed.
Sandy
can...@success.net
In article <6kc3ql$v24$3...@news.cyberhighway.net>,
Sandy
Peter Signoretto
Our great pyrenees loves banana as well, haven't tried him on carrots
yet. I know he eats cooked spuds
Peter Signoretto v...@ausnet.net.au
Marie Moore
can...@success.net wrote:
> We feed our 2 greyhounds lots of veggies. Crispy lettuce helps keep our male,
> Kid, from grazing on the grass. They love carrots, zucchini, tomatoes
> (Tiffany picks her own cherry tomatoes in the summer), green beans, peas &
> lettuce. They also enjoy fruits: bananas, strawberries, melons, apples,
> nectarines, peaches, grapefruit, oranges (Tiffany ate a quarter of a lemon
> once).
Given a sighthound's special risks for bloat, is there reason to be concerned
about feeding gas-producing veggies--broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage--or fruits?
(Please note that this is not a flame at canjard; it's something I've often
wondered about but never remembered to ask our vet.)
Our dogs--Borzoi, Irish Wolfhounds, Welsh and Border Terriers, and Bouviers--have
liked apples, pears, and cucumbers, and the occasional potato, but that's about
all.
Elizabeth
>Watch the cobs !!!
>
>they seem like something yummy to chew on, but caused a painful blockage in
>my dog when he was a pup, and my vet tells me they're one of the worst
>things for that, as they're totally indigestible for them. It was days
>before he vomited up the last of the chunks.
As a recovered colon cancer patient, I learned quite a bit about foods
at the time. The one food my doctors told me - above all others, to
stay away from, was Corn, on the cob or off! Dogs do not digest it
either and it can lead to great internal damage. Actually I was not a
corn eater before or since the cancer, however I knew of a man who was
and had a corn blockage which resulted in his death.
Liz
>
>
Shirley Lawler
KAYJAY0509 wrote:
> I feed my dogs (4) raw vegtables as a treat and they love them. They are
> especially fond of carrots and celery sticks, but will also eat cauliflower,
> beets, mushrooms, and tomatoes. They also eat watermelon and apples. A friend
> told me that I shouldn't be feeling my pets all these raw fruits and vegtables
> as they are not good for them. Does anyone know of any problem associated with
> feeding dogs these items as treats? I figured if they are healthy for people
> they should be healthy for dogs
Feeding the dogs a green vegetable once a week (usually just a handful) if the dog
is healthy will prevent grass eating. The dogs need the roughage. Do not feed
onions, raw or otherwise as it does cause anemia.
Shirley
--
AKC all breed pedigree service
see us at http://indrio.com
can...@success.net
In article <356BF434...@template.com>,
Although I know quite a few greyhound owners who feed cabbage-family veggies,
we don't (let's just say there are less than pleasant results). You bring up
a valid point; I hadn't thought of the gassy byproducts of these veggies
contributing to bloat. We also feed fruits and veggies in small
quantities...a single strawberry, one section of grapefruit, one or two cherry
tomatoes.
I'm always on the lookout for bloat. We run our dogs frequently, and I
monitor their food intake carefully. I have read that bloat is more frequent
when an animal is fed too soon after hard exercise. (Kid & Tiffany always are
so disappointed when I don't feed them for 2+ hours after playgroup).
Sandy
Lee K9
My sisters male doxie let us know he LIKES tomatoes.
I usaully plant a couple tiny tim cherry tomatoes in pots. Then in fall I
bring them in the house. They are small plants and the tomatoes range from pea
sized to normal cherry tomato size.
I suddenly realized one day my tomatoes were disappearing. Was a little
concerned Where they were disappearing to. I got the answer the same nite. As I
sat at my kitchen table using the computer, I suddenly heard a rustle, munch,
munch behind me. I turned around, and there was Zeke, who looked back at me,
then reached for another ripe tomato.
It was a funny site, as he carefully sniffed the bush, looking for the ripest
tomatoes. As fall passed into November and the red tomatoes were all gone, he
got a little impatient and then started on the orange ones, then the mostly
green ones. He wouldnt eat a lot of them at once, maybe a couple at a time.
The last of the tomatoes were just plain green when he ate them. he still
seemed to think they were a big treat! this was a couple years ago, and when
the pups come to visit, they think a nice red tomato is a real treat!
LeeK9
René Huiskamp
We always have given all our dogs raw vegetablesm mainly leftovers from our
daily salad dishes, which contents besides salad, tomatoes, celery,
carrots, paprikas, apples, corn. unions (yes also unions!) sometimes some
white rice and some olive oil, (no other dressing). Besides that they love
it as much they love their daily portion of dogfood and meat they do
perfectly well. Untill know al our dogs lived over 14 years in good
conditions and hardly any visits to the vet. So something will be OK with
it.
Many people think dogs are pure carnivors but not even wolves were.
As long as the dogs do well and perform, we have 2 hunting sighthounds I
wouldn't bother about these kind of dogmatic ideas about what a dog should
eat or not.
Some of the best hunters I have seen didn't hardly get anything more than
some hard bread water and leftovers. Many years ago there was hardly any
prepared dogfood avilable and I reall wonder if these dogs were not as
healthy as the actual products of in-line breeders and semi-professional
"know alls.
Generally speaking and this was a general advise from a very old vet who
used to visit my fathers dogs, all what is healthy for a person is good for
most other mammals as well.
good luck and have fun with your dog
René Huiskamp
Shirley Lawler <ind...@flash.net> escribió en artículo
<356CCCBB...@flash.net>...
Ed Tang
Mandy Williams (timb...@webtv.net) wrote:
: I feed my Alaskan Malamute carrots as a treat, and know of several
: breeders that have done it for years and have never had problems.
There's never been problems feeding dogs vegetables. Dogs are omnivorous
much like us humans. They eat meat and vegetables, whereas cats are
completely carnivorous. I fed a cat a piece of corn once and the cat
sniffed it, licked it and then gave me a "what kind of food is that" look
at then ignored the corn. When I asked the owner about that, that's when I
was told that cats don't like vegetables and that's when I researched
foods you should and should not give dogs and cats.
--
Ed Tang
Abirnba2
> A friendtold me that I shouldn't be feeling my pets all these raw fruits and
vegtables as they are not good for them. Does anyone know of any problem
associated with feeding dogs these items as treats? I figured if they are
healthy for people
My dog will eat anything. He used to eat too much, and he was so sweet that
we'd give him dog biscuits all the time. A vet checkup revealed that he was 20
lbs overweight. Aside from the obvious problems this posed, the extra weight
aggravated his arthritis (he's 12). The vet told us he needed to lose weight
and suggested that we substitute carrots for dog biscuits. Sunny never noticed
the difference, and neither did we (no health problems). He lost the weight
and is now svelt and happy.
Lady DarkRose
Ed Tang wrote:
>
> There's never been problems feeding dogs vegetables. Dogs are omnivorous
> much like us humans. They eat meat and vegetables, whereas cats are
> completely carnivorous. I fed a cat a piece of corn once and the cat
> sniffed it, licked it and then gave me a "what kind of food is that" look
> at then ignored the corn. When I asked the owner about that, that's when I
> was told that cats don't like vegetables and that's when I researched
> foods you should and should not give dogs and cats.
Wow, then my cats must be completely atypical. They love veggies, olives
especially.. I almost wonder if there is some chemical found in olives
that act as a "drug" in a cat's system. When we give them to the cats,
they act in a manner simular to that of a catnip high. Of course,
something that rolls across the floor when licked is bound to bring out
the kitten, even in 15 and 17 year old cats!
Lily
J1Boss
>Wow, then my cats must be completely atypical. They love veggies, olives<BR>
>especially.. I almost wonder if there is some chemical found in olives<BR>
>that act as a "drug" in a cat's system. When we give them to the cats,<BR>
>they act in a manner simular to that of a catnip high. Of course,<BR>
>something that rolls across the floor when licked is bound to bring out<BR>
>the kitten, even in 15 and 17 year old cats!<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>Lily<BR>
><BR
Lily - Just curious - how did you find out that your cats like olives?<BR>
I found out that one of my cats (now deceased) did, when she decided that
chomping on the baby Jesus from my Olive-wood nativity scene was a good idea!
I brought back a hand made olive wood bowl from France a few years ago (made
for me by a nice little old man near Monaco). I put it with my collection of
bowls from other vacations, on my fireplace mantle. I had to move it to a low
table, becuase my 2 current cats LOVE to lick it so much, that they were
jumping onto the mantle (and I don't need glass bowls crashed!) constantly.
They both are totally taken with this bowl. I obviously don't serve anything
in it (cat drool marks, and all), but I'm amazed at the fascination for olive
wood.<BR>
<BR>
Janet Boss<BR>
Best Friends Dog Obedience<BR>
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"<BR>
<BR>
"Read your question for the obvious answer"
Lady DarkRose
J1Boss wrote:
>
> Lily - Just curious - how did you find out that your cats like olives?<BR>
> I found out that one of my cats (now deceased) did, when she decided that
> chomping on the baby Jesus from my Olive-wood nativity scene was a good idea!
> I brought back a hand made olive wood bowl from France a few years ago (made
> for me by a nice little old man near Monaco). I put it with my collection of
> bowls from other vacations, on my fireplace mantle. I had to move it to a low
> table, becuase my 2 current cats LOVE to lick it so much, that they were
> jumping onto the mantle (and I don't need glass bowls crashed!) constantly.
> They both are totally taken with this bowl. I obviously don't serve anything
> in it (cat drool marks, and all), but I'm amazed at the fascination for olive
> wood.<BR>
Janet,
Well, being an olive hater myself, I had picked the olives out of
an antipasto one night, and had them on a napkin next to my plate. I
then accidently knocked them onto the floor (darn things roll like mad)
and Shadow (17) and Roger (her son, 15) went nuts chasing them all over
the floor! One likes only green olives, the other only black (though I
can never remember which is which).
Sounds as if we might have a trend on our hands... It must be quite a
sight, your cats going after that bowl! And I can only imagine the
Nativity incident! But I know (at least around here) those sets aren't
cheap, so if any real damage was done, it must have been rather
upsetting. Have you concidered placing the bowl in a lucite type display
box? Not as attractive, of course, but it might save it from a wicked
cat-tounge lashing! Of course, as rough as their tounges are, they may
get rid of any spots that need sanding <g>
Lily
RFerrie
>Ed Tang wrote:
>
>>
>> There's never been problems feeding dogs vegetables. Dogs are omnivorous
>> much like us humans. They eat meat and vegetables, whereas cats are
>> completely carnivorous. I fed a cat a piece of corn once and the cat
>> sniffed it, licked it and then gave me a "what kind of food is that" look
>> at then ignored the corn. When I asked the owner about that, that's when I
>> was told that cats don't like vegetables and that's when I researched
>> foods you should and should not give dogs and cats.
>
>Wow, then my cats must be completely atypical. They love veggies, olives
>especially.. I almost wonder if there is some chemical found in olives
>that act as a "drug" in a cat's system. When we give them to the cats,
>they act in a manner simular to that of a catnip high. Of course,
>something that rolls across the floor when licked is bound to bring out
>the kitten, even in 15 and 17 year old cats!
>
>
>Lily
Yours are not alone. My 3 cats work as a *team* to get olives. If
there is a jar or tub of olives on the table, one will bolt over and
whack the jar over, then the others swoop in and steal the olives.
Olives are one thing they all beg for (one loves potatoes and curry,
one loves corn, one loves broccoli, but ALL of them love olives).
But dogs do seem a-ok with veggies. My old cocker once ate an entire
veggie platter in what seemed like seconds. It didn't do her any harm
(although neither did the 10 lbs of chicken wing bones, or the pound
of chocolate-covered almonds, so she might just have had an
exceptionally durable digestive tract).
Renee
Lady DarkRose
RFerrie wrote:
> Yours are not alone. My 3 cats work as a *team* to get olives. If
> there is a jar or tub of olives on the table, one will bolt over and
> whack the jar over, then the others swoop in and steal the olives.
> Olives are one thing they all beg for (one loves potatoes and curry,
> one loves corn, one loves broccoli, but ALL of them love olives).
>
> But dogs do seem a-ok with veggies. My old cocker once ate an entire
> veggie platter in what seemed like seconds. It didn't do her any harm
> (although neither did the 10 lbs of chicken wing bones, or the pound
> of chocolate-covered almonds, so she might just have had an
> exceptionally durable digestive tract).
Renee,
Wow, my cats don't seem to have that act together! Then again,
it isn't all that often that there are olives in the house :)
As for your Cocker... This strong digestive tract may be breed-common.
As I posted earlier, the Cocker we had when I was growing up more than
once ate chocolate easter bunnies. Not to mention crayons, homework, and
just about anything else that hit the floor! The only two things we ever
found that he didn't care for were catsup and lettuce. He loved eating
watermelon, and even spit out the seeds!
Lily
--
Lady DarkRose
@>~~>~~>~~~~~
Vist me at DarkRose Manor!
http://www.darkrose-bds.com
Delmont R. Fredricks
> Ed Tang wrote:
>
>
> There's never been problems feeding dogs vegetables. Dogs are omnivorous
> much like us humans. They eat meat and vegetables, whereas cats are
> completely carnivorous. I fed a cat a piece of corn once and the cat
> sniffed it, licked it and then gave me a "what kind of food is that" look
> at then ignored the corn. When I asked the owner about that, that's when I
> was told that cats don't like vegetables and that's when I researched
> foods you should and should not give dogs and cats.
>
Excuse me, "Dogs are omnivorous"! Upon which scientific study is this
statement based? All Taxinomical classifications I have ever seen place
canines as Carnivores.
r_s...@ix.netcom.com
Research I have done tells me that dogs are "opportunistic omnivores,"
meaning that they'll eat whatever they can get. Correct me if I'm
wrong, natural feeders, but in the wild, dogs often consumed the
contents of their prey's stomach & intestines first, which regularly
contained grasses & vegetable matter.
Tracy Landauer
Lady DarkRose
Delmont R. Fredricks wrote:
> Excuse me, "Dogs are omnivorous"! Upon which scientific study is this
> statement based? All Taxinomical classifications I have ever seen place
> canines as Carnivores.
Science shmience. Even wolves in the wild will eat berries and such.
Scientific classifications don't always match real life scenarios.
Lily
Delmont R. Fredricks
I see, don't confuse you with the facts because your mind is already
made up, huh?
I'll tell you what, you give a dog, wolf, or any other carnivore the
choice between eating berries or a side of meat and I think you may be
very surprised what they will choose.
You also need to compare their dentition to that of a true Omnivore,
such as yourself, and notice the difference between their molars and
yours. You may be surprised to see that yours are shaped flat, more
like a Herbivore, so they can crush and grind vegitation, whilst your
dogs has little to no flat surface so they can shred and rip flesh.
deho...@my-dejanews.com
In article <35757A47...@skypoint.com>,
"Delmont R. Fredricks" <gran...@skypoint.com> wrote:
>
> > Ed Tang wrote:
> >
> >
> > There's never been problems feeding dogs vegetables. Dogs are omnivorous
>
> Excuse me, "Dogs are omnivorous"! Upon which scientific study is this
> statement based? All Taxinomical classifications I have ever seen place
> canines as Carnivores.
>
As far as I have heard, dogs are indeed omnivores. They obtain their plant
material in the wild from eating the stomach contents of herbivores and the
occasional 'grazing' (like your dog eating grass). Dont know where to point
you towards scientific info on this though...
diane
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Lady DarkRose
Delmont R. Fredricks wrote:
> I see, don't confuse you with the facts because your mind is already
> made up, huh?
Oh, for chrissake... Grow up. It has nothing to do with being "confused"
by "facts". As someone else pointed out, dogs and wolves are
oppertunistic feeders. They will eat what is there. And if there is no
meat, they *WILL* eat vegitation. THAT is the FACT.
> I'll tell you what, you give a dog, wolf, or any other carnivore the
> choice between eating berries or a side of meat and I think you may be
> very surprised what they will choose.
That is not the point. They *still* will and do eat vegitation. Hell,
sometimes I do think Kira prefers eating my plants to her food. Take
your example of dentaion. Yes, man's teeth are geared better for eating
plant matter than meat. However, most humans eat a meat based diet. The
same goes for canines. Their teeth are better suited for eating meat,
but they will and do eat vegitation. Why is *that* fact so hard for your
little mind to grasp? Oh, I see. I think it isn't *me* who is confused
by facts.
Lily
Delmont R. Fredricks
deho...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
>
> As far as I have heard, dogs are indeed omnivores. They obtain their plant
> material in the wild from eating the stomach contents of herbivores and the
> occasional 'grazing' (like your dog eating grass). Dont know where to point
> you towards scientific info on this though...
>
Actually *very* little organic matter is obtained from the stomach
contents. Also, when a carnivore goes for the belly, it is not to eat
the stomach contents, but actually to enter the body cavity in order to
obtain access to the internal organs.
I would be very surprised if you could point to *any* scientific
evidence suggesting that canines are omnivores. Mainly because
scientists perform a detailed analysis of the subject and do not rely on
a few isolated or small sized samples to draw their conclusions.
Once again, simply look at the dentition of *true* Ominvores and compare
it to that of a *true* Carnivore and you should quickly see the
difference.
Now if you want to dive into the science of it, you can go further down
the digestive tract and start comparing intestinal enzymes to see yet
another difference. Ominvores are able to digest a large portion of any
organic material ingested, Carnivores can not because they lack the
proper enzymes. Thus, for a Carnivore, very little digestive value is
obtained from ingesting organic material.
The grass chewing you see your dog performing is to obtain the
chlorophyll which acts to soothe an upset stomach (probably because they
were feed to much organic material ;-). If your dogs does not latter
hack the ingested grass up, then watch what comes out the other end to
see that little to no digestion of the grass occurs.
Michele Ellington
> >Ed Tang wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> There's never been problems feeding dogs vegetables. Dogs are omnivorous
> >> much like us humans. They eat meat and vegetables, whereas cats are
> >> completely carnivorous. I fed a cat a piece of corn once and the cat
> >> sniffed it, licked it and then gave me a "what kind of food is that" look
> >> at then ignored the corn. When I asked the owner about that, that's when I
> >> was told that cats don't like vegetables and that's when I researched
> >> foods you should and should not give dogs and cats.
But be careful of gassey vegetables with dogs prone to bloat, like danes.
I don't give them cabbage, bell peppers, that sort of thing. They love
tomatoes and raw potatoes, but now I am hearing that these nightshade
vegetables cause arthritis. I lost my last dane to arthritis (couldn't
stand for her to be in so much pain, had her "put to sleep", you know
you're in the right place when the vet and all her staff are crying their
eyes out along with you). So I have really cut back on those veggies.
My prior cat liked sauerkraut, of all things. My cuurent feline
rescue eats only cheap cat food. Hates the good stuff, declines
almost all people food.
Michele Ellington
Delmont R. Fredricks (gran...@skypoint.com) wrote:
> Lady DarkRose wrote:
> >
> > Delmont R. Fredricks wrote:
> >
> > > statement based? All Taxinomical classifications I have ever seen place
> > > canines as Carnivores.
> >
> > Scientific classifications don't always match real life scenarios.
Well, my dogs will choose tomatoes over meat. Also saucey foods
with rich smelling broths.
> You also need to compare their dentition to that of a true Omnivore,
> such as yourself, and notice the difference between their molars and
> yours. You may be surprised to see that yours are shaped flat, more
> like a Herbivore, so they can crush and grind vegitation, whilst your
> dogs has little to no flat surface so they can shred and rip flesh.
Bears don't have flat teeth, but they are omnivores aren't they?
Also chimps and other apes. What do pigs' teeth look like? I've
never seen a pig's teeth. AFAIK, humans are the only meat eaters
which have flat front teeth. Although our horses used to be as
delighted with a bologne sandwich as with a carrot, so maybe we
are all omnivores uder the skin.
Anyway, if they were true carnivores, wouldn't dogs and cats need
their diet to consist primarily of meat in order to survive? But
it is my understanding that most dog and cat food is predominantly
some form of grain, and they seem to get on quite well eating it.
Michele Ellington
> The grass chewing you see your dog performing is to obtain the
> chlorophyll which acts to soothe an upset stomach (probably because they
> were feed to much organic material ;-). If your dogs does not latter
> hack the ingested grass up, then watch what comes out the other end to
> see that little to no digestion of the grass occurs.
I think most long time dog owners are aware of the "medicinal value"
their dogs find in eating grass. I have had far too many impatient
midnight excursions with dogs looking for "a little comething to settle
their stomach" not to have learned this from casual observation (although
I didn't know it was the chlorophyl they were after).
However, that doesn't answer the fact that my dogs think a raw potato
is the height of fun (it rolls, it's delicious). And if you throw
meat scraps and tomato rinds in the dish together, it's the tomatoes
that disappear first. I was making vegetable soup last night and
you should have seen the dogs' antics begging for the meatless
scraps.
Delmont Fredricks
r_s...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
: Research I have done tells me that dogs are "opportunistic omnivores,"
: meaning that they'll eat whatever they can get. Correct me if I'm
: wrong, natural feeders, but in the wild, dogs often consumed the
: contents of their prey's stomach & intestines first, which regularly
: contained grasses & vegetable matter.
They rarely conume intestines, most often they bypass the digestive
tract altogether to reach the vital organs. It just so happens that the
intestines are in the way.
Am I to assume that your reasearch is quite extensive and surpasses the
volumes of studies that have been performed over the centuries and thus
we should accept your findings as absolute despite the fact that they
are contradictory?
Just because an animal eats something, does not always mean that it is
properly obtaining any nourishment from it. A baby or small child will
eat coins, am I to conclude then that they are vending machines?
Delmont Fredricks
Lady DarkRose (Darkro...@postoffice.worldnet.att.net) wrote:
:
: Oh, for chrissake... Grow up. It has nothing to do with being "confused"
: by "facts". As someone else pointed out, dogs and wolves are
: oppertunistic feeders. They will eat what is there. And if there is no
: meat, they *WILL* eat vegitation. THAT is the FACT.
Practice what you preach when you spout "Science Schmienz", or whatever it was
you said. Furthermore, just because the *WILL* eat something does *NOT*
imply that they will obtain *ANY* nourishment from it.
A child will sometimes eat coins and leave deposits behind in their
diapers, are we to conclude then that they are vending machines?
:
: That is not the point. They *still* will and do eat vegitation. Hell,
: sometimes I do think Kira prefers eating my plants to her food. Take
: your example of dentaion. Yes, man's teeth are geared better for eating
: plant matter than meat. However, most humans eat a meat based diet. The
: same goes for canines. Their teeth are better suited for eating meat,
: but they will and do eat vegitation. Why is *that* fact so hard for your
: little mind to grasp? Oh, I see. I think it isn't *me* who is confused
: by facts.
:
Sounds like Kira is trying to tell you something about the digestability
of *her* food. I can grasp that they will eat organic material, however
they are not able to properly *DIGEST* it. Can you see the difference?
Omnivores have a dentition which allows them to readily eat
from both groups (meat and vegitable), that's why humans have sharp
incisors, canines (eye teeth), and nearly flat surfaced molars. The
former allow them to tear flesh the latter to grind vegitation for
proper digestion.
Carnivores 1) do not have the teeth to grind raw vegitation in order to
properly obtain the maximum digestion, 2) do not have the same
intestinal enzymes to further increase their ability to digest
vegitation.
These are the facts you convientlly choose to overlook, but are there
none the less.
Delmont Fredricks
Michele Ellington (ad...@rgfn.epcc.edu) wrote:
:
: I think most long time dog owners are aware of the "medicinal value"
: their dogs find in eating grass. I have had far too many impatient
: midnight excursions with dogs looking for "a little comething to settle
: their stomach" not to have learned this from casual observation (although
: I didn't know it was the chlorophyl they were after).
:
: However, that doesn't answer the fact that my dogs think a raw potato
: is the height of fun (it rolls, it's delicious). And if you throw
: meat scraps and tomato rinds in the dish together, it's the tomatoes
: that disappear first. I was making vegetable soup last night and
: you should have seen the dogs' antics begging for the meatless
: scraps.
Because they eat something does not mean that they are getting
nutritional value from it. There is more to the digestive tract than
the mouth. I'll tell you what, take some stool samples from dogs feed
primarily meat and have them analyzed for material composition, do the
same for a dog who has been fed primarily organic material. It may come
as a surprise to many that a Carnivore will obtain little to no nutritional
value.
It is the ability to DIGEST and obtain NUTRITIONAL value that truly sets
Omnivores apart from Carnivores.
M.L. Salvail
Where the heck do you get such information? There are many books, studies,
etc that support the fact that a dog does benefit from vegetables in its
diet. My dogs get raw carrots, lettuce, zucchini, parsley, greens, in
addition to meat, meaty bones and oats. They also enjoy apples, tangerines,
oranges, and even bananas. They are the picture of health...shiny, lustrous
coats, pearly white teeth, energy, vitality.....
I feed my dogs a fresh food diet and none of that commercially packaged
garbage full of preservatives and less than desirable meat sources.
M.L. Salvail
http://home1.gte.net/msalvail/barflink.htm
Delmont Fredricks
M.L. Salvail (msal...@gte.net) wrote:
: Where the heck do you get such information? There are many books, studies,
The information comes from various books, studies, etc. which evaluate
the digestive tracts. These do not limit themselves to only watching
what goes in, but also what comes out. They are based upon the fact
that ingestion, it does not equate to digestion.
Levels of digestion vary depending upon not only what is fed, but also
*how* it is fed. This goes back to the primary difference between the
dentition an Omnivore and a Carnivore. An Omnivore has nearly flat
molars, much like a Herbivore, which allows the chewing action to grind
the vegitation so that digestability is increased. Because a Carnivore's
molars are not suited to the pulp grinding action, you must do so for
them in order to increase their ability to extract the nutrients.
If you also analyze the degree of digestability between a dog feed "raw"
vegetables and one feed "cooked" veggies, you begin to see the
where the enzymes of the stomach come into play. If you feed the same
amount of raw vegetables to an Omnivore and compare the amount of
digestibility you find that more of the organic matter is converted to
waste material.
So, it is not what you feed them, but more how much and what benefits
are being gained. If you feed an Omnivore and a Carnivore the equal
amounts of raw organic and flesh matter in low enough levels with
organic being the primary, or majority, product, you begin to see the
difference. Omnivores will maintain a high degree of healthness because
they are able to digest the organic material more efficiently and
extract more nutrients.
Andrea Stone
While I have not done great amounts of direct scientific research myself,
it is a generally recognized fact that dogs (and other canines) are not
true carnivores, but are actually omnivores with carnivore tendencies or
maybe carnivores with omnivore tendencies. Cats are the most "true"
carnivores.
I agree that they do not digest vegetation as well as cows, bears, or
humans, however they do require some vegetable matter in their diets. A dog
fed on a meat only diet will not thrive as well as one with a more varied
diet. Canines do have shorter intestinal tracts than herbivores, and many
other omnivores, and are better suited for digesting meat and animal
protein than are say, people. However if you read the many volumes out
there dedicated to canine nutrition, you will find that virtually all of
them subscribe to a varied diet, which includes meat AND vegetables.
*Because* their systems are not as well suited to the digestion of plant
material, dogs will get *maximum* use from raw veggies if you puree them.
They will get some use of the vitamins otherwise, just not as well & you'll
need to feed more to get the same effect.
My news reader seems to have missed a large portion of this thread, so I
have only seen a little of it. Not sure if you were saying the dogs don't
need veggies *at all*, but from what little I saw that's what it seemed to
me. Apologies if I've assumed incorrectly based on the partial thread that
I have seen here.
--
--
-Andrea Stone
Saorsa Basenjis+ one Ibizan Hound
Delmont Fredricks <gran...@visi.com> wrote in article
<2wxf1.581$bj2.2...@ptah.visi.com>...
Eric Baizer
Dogs are indeed omnivorous, as someone previously
suggested.
"...Though classified as a carnivore, the dog utilizes a wide variety
of foodstuffs efficiently. This ability enables the dog to meet his
nutritional requirements from a remarkable diversity of diets ... some
vegetable proteins ... are satisfactory sources of amino acids for
dogs."
-- Merck Veterinary Manual, 5th Edition, 1979
"One common misconception is that the dog is a carnivore, requiring
an all-meat diet. Actually, it's an omnivore that eats both plant and
animal tissue. An all-meat diet is harmful to modern dogs because it
doesn't have enough calcium."
-- Craig Thatcher, D.V.M., and William Swecker, Jr., D.V.M.
Consumers Digest, July/August 1992
"Even though both cats and dogs are taxonomically classed as belonging
to the order Carnivora ... dogs are naturally omnivorous (some members
of the order Carnivora are even herbivorous, e.g. Pandas.) The
omnivorous nature of the canine is further supported by the fact that
coyotes in Wyoming prey on sheep flocks; whereas in southern California
coyotes are responsible for depradation of melons, peaches, apricots,
grapes, plums and cherries."
-- Lon D. Lewis, D.V.M., Ph.D., Mark L. Morris, Jr., D.V.M., Ph.D.,
and Michael S. Hand, D.V.M., Ph.D., in Small Animal Clinical Nutrition
"Unlike cats, dogs are not true carnivores. They can survive on vegetarian
diets because they can convert vegetable protein and fat into the ingredients
necessary for all bodily functions."
-- Bruce Fogel, D.V.M., ASPCA Complete Dog Care Manual, 1993
"It would be a mistake to regard the dog family as narrow-minded carnivores.
Foxes have a catholic taste that ranges through grubs, rodents, snakes,
crayfish, mushrooms, acorns and various sorts of fruit. The jackal augments
its diets with vegetables, fruit and sugar-cane.
-- David Taylor, D.V.M., The Ultimate Dog Book, 1990