keep 'em on a leash!
PumknThief
Nancy, who never said that SHE lets her dogs run free forgot one of her
original statements:
>Its so cool to see the kids and their dogs (all breeds all ages no
>adults) at the swimming hole on a hot summer day.
Your dog, maybe, not mine. You ought to read about that "free roaming" dogs
that the Midwest Shelter has been picking up. Any of 'em yours?
>Howie was one of the lucky ones. After days of roaming fields >with no food,
he was picked up and brought to Midwest Animal >Shelter.
>In the small rural town the speed limit is 15 miles an hour. >Racheal had been
dumped by her family. She was meandering >around slowly looking for food,
looking for someone to love her. >The truck would have had to have
intentionally gone out of its >way to have hit this precious little girl. Her
leg was so terribly >injured that the thigh bone had been severed. Racheal
pulled >herself around for days. Many people saw this poor dog and no one
>would help her. Finally someone called Midwest Animal Shelter. >The town was
60 miles away, but we were there in an hour.
GOD bless these wonderful people for their work in saving these dogs.
You know, the big story around here is the recent murder of a 12 year old boy,
by a 15 YEAR OLD NEIGHBOR. The boy was sexually abused, killed and dumped in a
remote area. The murderer was himself a victim of sexual abuse. If this can
happen to a kid, imagine what can happen to your dog who "wagging up for a
pat" to the wrong person.
P.S. Jeffrey Dahmer, Charles Manson and The Unabomber were nowhere near New
York when they commited their crimes. Ever see America's Most Wanted? Filming
is not limited to N.Y.
Perhaps these chances that you take with your dogs' well being is worth this
"born free" delusion in your head. "It can't happen to me" is for suckers, and
you've got a big plastic wrapper on your head.
Nancy E.Holmes or R. Nelson Ruffin
YOUR problem is that you think a) I have kids b) I let my dogs roam the
area unsupervised. I DO think it is neat seeing kids and dogs having a
great time together - helps undo the skewed perceptions I see elsewhere
about dogs just waiting for a chance to kill and maim kids when the adults
look the other way.
I do enjoy meeting the fine old farm dogs when I come across them at a farm
stand - no matter what breed or mix they are. I enjoy seeing people working
their dogs and playing and hiking with them. I enjoy seeing my dogs run in
safe areas offlead - key here is I am seeing them ie I am with them and
supervising them as we hike together. Would I advise this for *EVERYONE* or
for *ALL* the time? Absolutely not! Do I think that dogs should NEVER be
leashed or fenced again Absolutely NOT! I just think that depending on the
circumstances (and the people who own the dogs) that dogs can be run off
lead safely.
Even Ann has finally backed off her never statement as she can see certain
circumstances that meet her approval of off lead work for dogs (I'm sure
the police, hunters and herders are grateful)
Now if you cannot or choose not to CONTROL your dog when it is not fenced
or leashed or if your dog is a danger to itself OR the people around it
when off lead that IMO is a completely different question that stating no
dogs should ever be off leash.
Nancy
ps IMO abandoning a dog and running it off lead for exercise are two
different things
PumknThief <pumkn...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19971007055...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
Ann Lettis
Nancy - I have not changed my view on leashes - I mentioned in a post
which you probably never read (too anxious to jump all over me with your
cheap shots) the places where I felt a dog could run loose - in a fenced
yard or a confined area - I assumed that anyone with half a brain (sorry
a foolish assumption on my part, where you are concerned) would realize
that a police dog, rescue dog, herding dog could not perform some of
their duties on a leash - the original thread started with a person
discussing the fact he allowed his dog off leash in public - This person
did not say he was a police officer with a police dog, nor one involved
in rescue work with his dog, nor one who used his dog for herding, etc.
- You lost (as usual) the context of the original post and what people
have been referring to in your quest to argue.
ANN - SI, NY, USA
let...@webtv.net
Tony Taco
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I agree, children should always be kept on leashes.
Tony
Ann Lettis wrote:
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<H2>
<FONT COLOR="#993366"><FONT SIZE=+3>I agree, children should always be
kept on leashes.</FONT></FONT></H2>
<FONT COLOR="#993366"><FONT SIZE=+3></FONT></FONT>
<P><FONT COLOR="#993366"><FONT SIZE=+3>Tony</FONT></FONT>
<P>Ann Lettis wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>Nancy - I have not changed my view on leashes - I
mentioned in a post
<BR>which you probably never read (too anxious to jump all over me with
your
<BR>cheap shots) the places where I felt a dog could run loose - in a fenced
<BR>yard or a confined area - I assumed that anyone with half a brain (sorry
<BR>a foolish assumption on my part, where you are concerned) would realize
<BR>that a police dog, rescue dog, herding dog could not perform some of
<BR>their duties on a leash - the original thread started with a person
<BR>discussing the fact he allowed his dog off leash in public - This person
<BR>did not say he was a police officer with a police dog, nor one involved
<BR>in rescue work with his dog, nor one who used his dog for herding,
etc.
<BR>- You lost (as usual) the context of the original post and what people
<BR>have been referring to in your quest to argue.
<P>ANN - SI, NY, USA
<BR>let...@webtv.net</BLOCKQUOTE>
</HTML>
--------------562BDB335A0434B028C83091--
NLW TFW NM
Our suburban neighborhood had approximately two dozen kids per acre -- in
single family homes. You can GUESS what state that was in! And after school
and on weekends it seemed that all the kids between 8 and 12 migrated to our
yard to maul our two dogs. The greatest danger seemed to be to the dogs' tail
hinges, we hear their design lifetime is only 100 million wags. We've seen
kids punch them, knock them down, pull tails, jump on them, grab them by the
scruff of their necks, pile on them ... and the dogs that could smile actually
smiled for an hour at a time through all of it.
We've watched our dogs (with the parents' permission) approach toddlers or even
babies at public places such as a lakeshore and virtually adopt them. Our
golden would spend hours mothering a two-year-old with obvious affection,
care, and gentle protection.
There are all kinds of dogs.
Mike
Trotter Lymons
On 8 Oct 1997 20:43:08 GMT, amiev...@aol.com (AMIEVIL112) wrote:
>I notice that people who allow their dog off leash when in a park have much
> less overall control over the dog, especially when another dog is introduced
> into the mix.
>
Actually, I've noticed just the opposite. I see people out on
deserted, lonely beaches or deep in a rural backcountry setting who
keep their yanking, straining, ill-behaved mutt on a cruelly short
leash. They obviously haven't bothered teaching the dog the most
rudimentary of obedience basics. If the dog EVER got off the leash, it
would be the most unmanagable of all. OTOH, my dog, along with all of
the other competition obedience-trained and common-sense-trained
companion dogs are under great voice control off-leash.
jpsb
Ann Lettis (let...@webtv.net) wrote:
: Nancy - I have not changed my view on leashes - I mentioned in a post
: which you probably never read (too anxious to jump all over me with your
: cheap shots) the places where I felt a dog could run loose - in a fenced
: yard or a confined area - I assumed that anyone with half a brain (sorry
: a foolish assumption on my part, where you are concerned) would realize
: that a police dog, rescue dog, herding dog could not perform some of
: their duties on a leash - the original thread started with a person
: discussing the fact he allowed his dog off leash in public - This person
: did not say he was a police officer with a police dog, nor one involved
: in rescue work with his dog, nor one who used his dog for herding, etc.
: - You lost (as usual) the context of the original post and what people
: have been referring to in your quest to argue.
Ann you can't complain about cheap shots and in the SAME post, hurl
cheap shot after cheap shot. hahahaha, I also thought I saw a little
light at the end of the tunnel (area's of agreement). Guess I was wrong.
Monday I played ball with the Kids next store, Maggie was off leash and
having a great time, as were we all. The kids were running around chasing
Maggie (when she had the ball) and Maggie was runing around chasing the kids
(when they had the ball). I can't not understand why you people continue to
find fault with letting the dog off leash. Letting she play and rough house
with the neiborhood kids. What is your problem?
jim
Ann Lettis
Mike - yes there are all kinds of dogs and also all kinds of people -
personally I would not allow any child to pull, punch , etc. any dog - I
think a child should be taught to respect any and all animals - they are
not stuffed toys - Any other fact is that often the most easy going dog
in his senior years may not feel well and not be able to take the
mauling the way he had in his younger more tolerant days - Just another
thought to consider - I love when people say - "Oh my dog is great my
kids can do ANYTHING to him" Why a child should be allowed to do
anythiing to a dog is beyond me.
Ann Lettis
Unfortunately not every person who allows their dog off lead has an OTCH
dog!!
Ann Lettis
Jim - look back at my post to Nancy - (1) I never made any comments to
her regarding her relationsihp with her dogs however you will note she
has more then once done so to me (2) I never made any comments as to her
experience with dogs however you will note she has done so to me (3) I
have never made any comments regarding the area or state she lives in,
note she has done so with me
Nancy has gone off the topic quite often just to be insulting on a
personal level - so trust me on this one, I am still holding back
Ann Lettis
Steve - some areas have leash laws others unfortunately do not.
Tony Taco
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I would rather hear a barking dog than a bunch of darn kids!
Tony
NLW TFW NM wrote:
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<FONT COLOR="#993366"><FONT SIZE=+3>I would rather hear a barking dog than
a bunch of darn kids!</FONT></FONT></H2>
<FONT COLOR="#993366"><FONT SIZE=+3></FONT></FONT>
<P><FONT COLOR="#993366"><FONT SIZE=+3>Tony</FONT></FONT>
<P>NLW TFW NM wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>Our suburban neighborhood had approximately two dozen
kids per acre -- in
<BR> single family homes. You can GUESS what state that was in! And
after school
<BR> and on weekends it seemed that all the kids between 8 and 12
migrated to our
<BR> yard to maul our two dogs. The greatest danger seemed to be to
the dogs' tail
<BR> hinges, we hear their design lifetime is only 100 million wags.
We've seen
<BR> kids punch them, knock them down, pull tails, jump on them, grab
them by the
<BR> scruff of their necks, pile on them ... and the dogs that could
smile actually
<BR> smiled for an hour at a time through all of it.
<P>We've watched our dogs (with the parents' permission) approach toddlers
or even
<BR> babies at public places such as a lakeshore and virtually adopt
them. Our
<BR> golden would spend hours mothering a two-year-old with obvious
affection,
<BR> care, and gentle protection.
<P>There are all kinds of dogs.
<P>Mike</BLOCKQUOTE>
</HTML>
--------------90A1DBE76ADAD8D672CA5899--
Nancy E.Holmes or R. Nelson Ruffin
Ann - you backed off a bit in a post and said that you could see
circumstances where it was ok to have a dog off lead - YOU feel that you
are the only one qualified to determine when that is. Other owners feel
perfectly capable of making that value judgment for themselves and their
pets. The big difference is nobody wants to force you to let your dogs off
lead - you OTOH seem to want to force anyone and everyone else to do as you
do else be considered irresponsible.
Well what you consider irresponsible others consider part of the joys of
dog ownership. There are plenty of hunters who have off lead dogs helping
them fill their freezers for the winter up here. Plenty more who do field
trials (and guess what not in fenced areas nor even in 'safe' ones) and
other things with their dogs off lead.
Me I like to hike the local woods and the empty fair grounds with no fence
in sight, no people, no machines - just me and the dogs having a nice time
out of doors posing a hazard to nothing but perhaps any squirrel that
cannot hear barking (view halloo squirrel in sight!) or the dog bells...
You know when you have a really good dog, seeing him (or her) in motion as
he takes off and moves across the field, gaiting fully out with head and
tail high in a joyous abandon of exuberant energy, then circling back to
you as the center of his universe, is IMO as much poetry in motion as any
Arab horse or free flying bird.
Nancy
ps by this weekend leap in the leaves should be another good game for the
dogs in the woods should be fun
Ann Lettis
Ok JIm - so everyone can allow there dog to be off lead - because all a
dog has to do is be introduced to a strange dog and they will become
instant friends - they can let their dog watch a video on obedience and
the dog will be trained to instantly follow commands - and most of all
every person throughout the entire country loves dogs - isn't the world
just perfect. Now we can wake up the dream is over - dog bites are on
the rise - insurance companies are not insuring some homes because of
specific breeds - some communities are not even allowing dogs in parks
on or off lead - some people dont even like dogs and you know what
that's ok with me because I dont like some people - some people are
afraid of dog and I personally can accept that because each one of us is
afraid of something - I share my dogs with the community by doing
therapy work with them and bringing them to schools for the children so
kids can learn about being responsible owners, I prefer my dogs to be an
asset in the community not an annoyance - Because some dogs are owned by
people who allow their dogs to run loose they have become an annoyance
in various areas around the country - There are many anti-dog laws being
proposed or passed every day, these did'n't come about out of the blue
they came about because irresponsible owners in the particular area
annoyed the heck out of others and unfortunately when a law is passed it
effects everyone - A law banning Rottweilers was proposed in a part of
Ill. not too long ago - Why? Because of an irresponsible owner - Unfair,
you bet, but he sure must have caused a lot of problems for it to get
that far - Fortunately the law was over-turned thanks to the resonsible
dog owners in the area.
PumknThief
"Nancy E.Holmes or R. Nelson Ruffin" <fmka...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>There are plenty of hunters who have off lead dogs helping
>them fill their freezers for the winter up here. Plenty more who do field
>trials (and guess what not in fenced areas nor even in 'safe' ones) and
>other things with their dogs off lead.
In order to do this successfully, these dogs underwent rigorous training. What
kind of training do YOU do? Obedience club? Schutzhund club? Have you ever
trained a dog to work functionally, or are you just lucky so far?
AVRAMA GINGOLD
J> These self appointed see-ers of the ONLY WAY TO LIVE, would have you belive
J> that my Newf should NEVER be allowed to play ball with the neighborhood
J> kids. Or that she and I are a menace to the community when she is fetching
J> sticks from the bay. Or horror of horrors the dog is carrying home the
J> grocerys OFF LEASH!
J>
J> jim
J>
Jim--
By now it is obvious that you are establishing a straw man--in all
the examples you cite your Newfie is UNDER CONTROL/SUPERVISED - she
is not roaming about without supervision.
The only reason leash laws are advisable is because of the fools
who do NOT control their dogs and permit them to be risks to themselves
and to others. If people used common sense laws would not be
needed--but as is obvious from postings here on r.p.d., common
sense is exceedingly uncommon.
Avrama & Shomer
avr...@moondog.com
... nfx v2.7 [C0000] To err is human, to forgive canine.
DogStar716
Been reading this with interest. My two cents: My Great Dane is obedience
trained (I show him), walks at heel OFF LEASH, is a therapy dog, is the
friendliest dog I have ever known, has a reliable recall, and is not dog
aggressive. I see nothing wrong with letting him offleash when we hike, go to
the lake, to the park, walking down the street, and even hanging around in the
front yard. I would never leave him unsupervised, but IMO there is nothing
wrong with a friendly well trained dog having off leash time, SUPERVISED. As
for "well, this can happen, that can happen", sure, but LIFE is one big chance
that you take just walking out the door in the morning.
Ann Lettis
dogstar - My male Boxer was also obedience titled, a therapy dog who
worked with autistic children who had a dog phoebia, was in a Pet &
Partner with the Delta Society and yet I would never have him off lead
when walking down the street - perhaps because of the therapy work he
did I became a little more sensitive to those who might be afraid of
dogs. My own feelings are that even if a dog scores a perfect 200 in
obedience trials each time he is entered (and not too many do) that is
still no guarantee that the same dog will be totally reliable off lead,
under all circumstances to take the chance of having him off a lead in
public . A person has the ability to make decisions regarding their
safety and that of others but a dog is our responsibility - they give so
much to us, it seems like very little to give back -
Nancy E.Holmes or R. Nelson Ruffin
Me? I train my dogs to the level I require, I rehabilitate rescue dogs
(previously great danes and now the breed that I raise) that other people
have screwed up, and I do behavior consulting privately. I *don't* compete
in AKC trials as I am not interested in that area nor do I compete in
schutzhund nor ringsport nor any of the other obedience type competitions
that some people so enjoy. My dogs have been successful in these endeavors
in the hands of people who care about them. I never had one enter a CGC and
fail - nor have I trained any dog specifically just to pass this basic
test. My dogs have gone to live in 5 countries in addition to the US. I
have bred / raised dogs that were pedigree award winners and world
champions.
I guess if my training were 'just luck' I'd have messed up somewhere along
the 20+ years that I have been doing rescue and raising purebred dogs. Or
maybe sometime before then when I just had mixbred companions. I train to
the level I desire - a fabulous recall and basic household and leash
manners and how to go for a walk with me offlead - the dogs catch onto the
rules pretty quickly - even the rescues. A new dog without a reliable
recall does not get offlead during walks.
If you paid attention - every time I spoke of dogs being offlead there were
2 things in common - the dog was either on its own property or in the
company of its people.
The leash on my dogs commonly is our bond. I have had others lose my dogs
on occasion through slipping the lead at shows and you know unlike so many
show dogs the only thing my dogs are interested in is getting to me - I
must say onlookers were amazed when I call the loose dog and it comes to
have the lead put back on without any 'catching' needed. So many show dogs
are incapable of that simple exercise (even at the obedience ring) it
astounds me.
You want to know how good my recall is? I can call a experienced stud off
from mounting a bitch in standing heat and I can call a dog off full
pursuit of wildlife like chipmunks and squirrels, AND I have called an
attacking dog out of the air with all four feet airborne to a down stay
(one of those fun city experiences I don't miss anymore choosing to let the
dog have the aggressive idiot man or not).
And your training expertise is?
Nancy
PumknThief <pumkn...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19971009145...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
Nancy E.Holmes or R. Nelson Ruffin
Ann - I guess you don't use those NYC dog parks the locals describe so
wonderfully - one of the people who did so in the same terms I used was Job
Michael Evans.
You seem to think so highly of yourself that I find it really funny
(pathetic but funny) I hope you enjoy yourself hob nobbing with the show
judges and such - typical show person is how I would categorize you -
rotflmao just thinking about who you were hanging around visiting with at
Montgomery.<snicker>
Nancy
Ann Lettis <let...@webtv.net> wrote in article
<61hncm$6bk$1...@newsd-112.bryant.webtv.net>...
> Nancy- this may come as a big shock to you but my dogs are not exercised
> in garbage - this is just one example of how little you know - By the
> way - when was the last time you were in my neighborhood? I truly had no
> idea that you knew specifically where and how I spend my time and the
> areas of this country I have been in with my dogs! God, have you had a
> private investigator following me throughout my lifetime? Are you a
> physic? Do you have a crystal ball? How do you know all these things?
> Since when does voicing opinions mean a person wants to seek any kind of
> control? Try reading some of the AKC information on responsible dog
> ownership because you sure are starting to sound like a PETA person to
> me with your "Born Free Attitude"
Ann Lettis
Nancy - no I don't use the NYC parks since I don't live in New York City
- It's strange that you would even wonder about who I was hanging out
with at Montgomery as actally I don't give you a second thought unless
I'm answering one of you posts. But since your crystal ball seems to be
getting a little cloudy I'll let you in on a secret - when I go to shows
I hang out with my dog.
jpsb
You are a little late getting into this thread, but MANY MANY posters
advocate NEVER (yes NEVER), letting a dog off leash. Even when supervised.
jim
AVRAMA GINGOLD (avrama....@moondog.com) wrote:
: J> These self appointed see-ers of the ONLY WAY TO LIVE, would have you belive
J Arthur Simon
On Sun, 12 Oct 1997 18:20:37 -0400, let...@webtv.net (Ann Lettis)
wrote:
What are you talking about? Please leave at least a few lines of the
post you're replying to so we know what you're talking about.
Ann Lettis
J Simon - in response to your post that you were unsure of what I was
refering to - my post was a reply to Nancy - I thought it was quite
clear that it that she assumed I used NYC parks, that she assumed I
lived in NYC and that she assumed she knew who I spent time with at dog
dogs - Since she had sent a post address to me I assumed most people
would have either read it or ignored it
PumknThief
>every time I spoke of dogs being offlead there were 2 things in common - >the
dog was either on its own property or in the company of its people
I don't think that the former is sufficient for a dog to run free unsupervised
unless you've completely gone over the property deed with the dog so he knows
where to stop (lol)
>I can call a experienced stud off from mounting a bitch in standing heat >and
I can call a dog off full pursuit of wildlife like chipmunks and >squirrels,
AND I have called an attacking dog out of the air with all four >feet airborne
to a down stay (one of those fun city experiences I don't >miss anymore
choosing to let the dog have the aggressive idiot man or >not).
Wow! that's impressive for a dog with no formal training (ROTFLMAO). Guess it's
not hard with a 5lb affenpinscher. Did the attacking affen really have all
four feet off the ground? He must have looked really mean.
>And your training expertise is?
I'll keep it short. My dogs have championships AND advanced obedience titles.
All owner handled. Yes, my dogs come back to me, and need no "catching" at
shows. No, they do not run free, unsupervised.
AVRAMA GINGOLD
NN> Ann - I guess you don't use those NYC dog parks the locals describe so
NN> wonderfully - one of the people who did so in the same terms I used was Job
NN> Michael Evans.
Unfortunately the dog runs (not dog parks) do not exist in all boroughs.
Manhattan has the most dog runs and--to the best of my knowledge--
Staten Island (where Ann lives) has the fewest or none.
In talking about dog runs there is one thing we tend not to mention--
that for many people..getting to the run means a very long walk.
(Sometimes very late at night--SHomer does not approve of other males--
I will walk Shomer to the closest dog run. Just walking there and
back gives him about 1-1/2 mile walk!)
Oddly enough..despite the fact that I cannot (will not) take
a male-aggressive male Dobe into the dog run..I have always been
a strong supporter of them. Establishing dog runs in the parks
means that I am less likely to have a strange dog come into my
male's face (dogs must be on-lead until they reach the run) and
the same applies to those poor benighted fools who do not find it
a pleasure to be snooted and snuggled by a dog. (I may prefer
Dobes and you may be in Affenpinschers..but I doubt if either of
us dislike being licked by a friendly dog regardless of breed.
Alas...too many people have lacked our childhood exposure to dogs
and retain early fears.)
Avrama & Shomer
avr...@moondog.com
... nfx v2.7 [C0000] Our Dobermans--may we deserve them!
Nancy E.Holmes or R. Nelson Ruffin
I like the concept of dog runs too - where I live there are NONE - not
needed with all the open country about I guess. IMO every other 'sport' or
leisure time activity needing an outdoor space is pretty well catered to in
city and suburban parks. It only makes sense to me to establish space for
folks who want to spend leisure time with their dogs *if* the dogs are
banned from other areas which in many cases they are. I *do* worry about
what I hear from NYC friends who do go to the dog parks - about the
homeless using them for toilets and about the diseases the dogs get from
the soil or a puddle there :-( but they find the same on the streets I
guess. You know I just don't miss city living one bit - though I walked a
lot more then which was better for me.
You are right I don't mind being accosted by a friendly dog - heck I've
been known to make friends out of working 'guard' dogs - but why is it they
must all just have visited the mud puddle or had a drink before they say
hello 'dog lady' where have you been all my life?<VBG>
Nancy
AVRAMA GINGOLD <avrama....@moondog.com> wrote in article
<8E19037.09A7...@moondog.com>...
jpsb
Try reading that the post says instead of making it up as you go along.
It say: the dog WAS on its OWN PROPERTY.
It doesn't say the dog wander OFF it's property.
So I guess to feel free tell me what to do with my dog on my OWN
property!!!!!!!! Screw you.
jim
PumknThief (pumkn...@aol.com) wrote:
: >every time I spoke of dogs being offlead there were 2 things in common - >the
PumknThief
Take your own advice. If you read the post (and I included it so that you may
now read it) it states that:
: >every time I spoke of dogs being offlead there were 2 things in common -
>the
: dog was either on its own property or in the company of its people
The key words here being EITHER and OR, meaning that EITHER the owner was
present OR the dog was on it's property. It does not state that the second
condition includes the owner being present. Now, unless you've fenced your
property, what's to stop your dog from leaving said property and entering mine
(where, BTW, I would call animal control, forcing you to retrieve it from a
local shelter)?
Screw yourself.
:Try reading that the post says instead of making it up as you go along.
Nancy E.Holmes or R. Nelson Ruffin
Tsk Tsk - never assume so much - the dog I called out of the air was a
rescued great dane - a small one for sure only 125lbs but easily able to
kill his man had I let him - I settled for running the idiot off -see I
*really* lived and worked and exercised my dogs in an inner city situation
at one point in my life.
My current large dogs are a Giant Schnauzer who is an oversized boy at 30"
at the shoulder and 100lbs. Next biggest (and currently most dangerous dog
<g>) is my Standard Poodle at an agile 50lbs. The Affenpinschers are what I
raise and delve deeply into the fun of genetics with. The big dogs are
neutered pets who have the job of backing up the Affens when it comes to
coyotes or burglars. I've scaled down the size of my big dog pets and given
up doing great dane rescue as I have gotten older. And if you think adult
Affenpinschers are 5lb dogs you don't know much about that breed!
My dogs are not trained to compete in AKC obedience trials -that does not
mean they get no training just that *I* have no desire to compete in that
area. From your statements below it sounds like you are an all too typical
show competitor interested only in scores. Once upon a time obedience
trials were held to show pet owners what a help and what fun companions
purebred dogs could be. Now it seems that OTCH doesn't even mean comes when
called and not in a show ring.
I have *no* problem at all with you deciding to keep your personal dogs
leashed forever - I only have a problem if you think to change how I
determine to exercise my dogs and have fun with them where I live. ie I
have no problem with people choosing what they feel is right just with
fanatics dictating.
Nancy
Gee Nelson I think we better find another place to hide the trucks. I think
UPS is catching on about us feeding the delivery guys to the
pirrhaffenpinschers <VBG>
gr...@hartingdale.com.au
On 17-Oct-97 13:27:27, jpsb assaulted All about Re: keep 'em on a leash!
> PumknThief (pumkn...@aol.com) wrote:
>: Take your own advice. If you read the post (and I included it so that you
>: may
>: now read it) it states that:
>:
>: >the
>: : dog was either on its own property or in the company of its people
>:
>: present OR the dog was on it's property. It does not state that the second
>: condition includes the owner being present. Now, unless you've fenced your
>: property, what's to stop your dog from leaving said property and entering
>: mine
>: (where, BTW, I would call animal control, forcing you to retrieve it from
>: a local shelter)?
>:
>: Screw yourself.
> When you learn how to use that fible mind that the good Lord gave you
^^^^^
Run out of power for the spellchecker at SUCH an embarrassing spot, didnt you?
;-}
> get back in touch. Till then have a happy time living in a fabracated
^^^^^^^^^^
....and again!
> reality.
> jim, impersonator without a clue!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Sysop of Amiga's Sci-Fi BBS gr...@hartingdale.com.au Chow Chow lover! |
|Sydney, Australia. |
| |
|Founding and lifetime member: CHOW ADDICTION SOCIETY. MEMBERSHIP No. 1. |
| |
|Are you old when you enjoy a good headbanger record with others over 40?|
------------------------------------------------------------------------
jpsb
gr...@hartingdale.com.au wrote:
: On 17-Oct-97 13:27:27, jpsb assaulted All about Re: keep 'em on a leash!
Guess I'll have to use my real sig in this group from now on.
jim s
i speak for myself and only myself
i already know i'm a terrible speller
nonimated 1991 worst writer on the net.
jpsb
PumknThief (pumkn...@aol.com) wrote:
: Take your own advice. If you read the post (and I included it so that you may
: now read it) it states that:
:
: : >every time I spoke of dogs being offlead there were 2 things in common -
: >the
: : dog was either on its own property or in the company of its people
:
: The key words here being EITHER and OR, meaning that EITHER the owner was
: present OR the dog was on it's property. It does not state that the second
: condition includes the owner being present. Now, unless you've fenced your
: property, what's to stop your dog from leaving said property and entering mine
: (where, BTW, I would call animal control, forcing you to retrieve it from a
: local shelter)?
:
: Screw yourself.
When you learn how to use that fible mind that the good Lord gave you
get back in touch. Till then have a happy time living in a fabracated
reality.
jim
gr...@hartingdale.com.au
On 17-Oct-97 13:27:27, jpsb assaulted me about Re: keep 'em on a
leash!
Sorry, man. I didn't mean to accuse you of assaulting me. I've given
up. I can't figure this thing out. It keeps accusing people of
assaulting me, and makes me sounds really stupid, but I CAN'T MAKE IT
STOP!!
Help!
Sorry
----------
Gurskins
>Subject: Re: keep 'em on a leash!
>From: gr...@hartingdale.com.au
>Date: Fri, Oct 17, 1997 13:38 EDT
>Message-id: <3447a1af...@news.nr.infi.net>
>
>On 17-Oct-97 13:27:27, jpsb assaulted me about Re: keep 'em on a
>leash!
>
>Sorry, man. I didn't mean to accuse you of assaulting me. I've given
>up. I can't figure this thing out. It keeps accusing people of
>assaulting me, and makes me sounds really stupid, but I CAN'T MAKE IT
>STOP!!
>
>Help!
>
>Sorry
>
You seem to be getting onto the group OK. Can't you control it? You mentioned a
pawn shop. See if they will give you a refund. Try reloading your ISP software
and maybe perform a discscan to clear the memory.
Good luck. Try and get a refund.
Ed & Connie Gurskin
Arlington, Va.
The following users are not allowed to respond to our messages any longer:
Bob Maida, Mushroom, Sandra Pover. Brian Hinkle, Cyntrina, Robert Crim.
PumknThief
Excuse you? I don't believe that I was even responding to a post you wrote.
Aren't you the one who lives on an island? Maybe it's time YOU visited
reality. Do not question my dogs' leashes, unless it's a problem for you up in
La.La Land.
gr...@hartingdale.com.au
On 18-Oct-97 03:38:00, Some twit impersonating gregh assaulted All about Re:
keep 'em on a leash! > On 17-Oct-97 13:27:27, jpsb assaulted me about Re: keep
'em on a > leash!
> Sorry, man. I didn't mean to accuse you of assaulting me. I've given
> up. I can't figure this thing out. It keeps accusing people of
> assaulting me, and makes me sounds really stupid, but I CAN'T MAKE IT
> STOP!!
> Help!
> Sorry
You know, you are so BAD at forging, it's a wonder you are able to use
Internet at all, newbie!
PumknThief
The laws I support are there to keep dogs and people safe. I have no problem
with "pet training" and believe that EVERY dog should have at least that. I
don't see how a dog who will not come to it's owner out of the obedience ring
can perform consistantly enough to get an OTCH (at least in my area). Keep to
the country and I'll leash my dogs, here in the 'burbs where there is a street
in front of my house.>Subject: Re: keep 'em on a leash!
>> : >every time I spoke of dogs being offlead there were 2 things in common
>- >the
>> : dog was either on its own property or in the company of its people
>> :
gr...@hartingdale.com.au
On 18-Oct-97 03:51:17, Gurskins assaulted All about Re: keep 'em on a leash!
>>Subject: Re: keep 'em on a leash!
>>Date: Fri, Oct 17, 1997 13:38 EDT
>>Message-id: <3447a1af...@news.nr.infi.net>
>>
>>leash!
>>
>>Sorry, man. I didn't mean to accuse you of assaulting me. I've given
>>up. I can't figure this thing out. It keeps accusing people of
>>assaulting me, and makes me sounds really stupid, but I CAN'T MAKE IT
>>STOP!!
>>
>>Help!
>>
>>Sorry
>>
> You seem to be getting onto the group OK. Can't you control it? You
> mentioned a
> pawn shop. See if they will give you a refund. Try reloading your ISP
> software and maybe perform a discscan to clear the memory.
> Good luck. Try and get a refund.
> Ed & Connie Gurskin
> Arlington, Va.
> The following users are not allowed to respond to our messages any longer:
> Bob Maida, Mushroom, Sandra Pover. Brian Hinkle, Cyntrina, Robert Crim.
> http://www.expage.com/page/gurskins
Check the header of the letter to which you replied. I didnt post that.
jpsb
My net access is via a sh account, don't have all that wiz bang user
interface stuff. Just a vi editor, I am very fond of the vi editor
and sh access. I don't get the pretty pictures but I do get to talk
directly to the OS. Someday I'll get my home network hooked up and
use a spell checker. Till then I'll continue to make mistakes.
I've asked a few times why you think I'm pretending to be you. Since
you've never offered any evidence I'll just assume you enjoy slandering
people. Not all that uncommon in Usenet News, any really doesn't brother
me to much. But if you really think you are being victimized I'd think
you take the time to discuss seriously your problem.
Oh, spelling flame are concidered and wasite of bandwidth and childish
by adult posters. And only "newbies" quote large posts so they can
add one line at the botton. Another waiste of band width and time.
cheers
jim s
gr...@hartingdale.com.au
On 20-Oct-97 04:01:53, jpsb assaulted All about Re: keep 'em on a leash!
> My net access is via a sh account, don't have all that wiz bang user
> interface stuff. Just a vi editor, I am very fond of the vi editor
> and sh access. I don't get the pretty pictures but I do get to talk
> directly to the OS. Someday I'll get my home network hooked up and
> use a spell checker. Till then I'll continue to make mistakes.
I dont use a spellchecker either. I didnt think many people did.
> I've asked a few times why you think I'm pretending to be you. Since
> you've never offered any evidence I'll just assume you enjoy slandering
No, I dont but seeing you seem to enjoy libelling people as you used that
statement, that makes us about equal, eh?
> people. Not all that uncommon in Usenet News, any really doesn't brother
> me to much. But if you really think you are being victimized I'd think
> you take the time to discuss seriously your problem.
> Oh, spelling flame are concidered and wasite of bandwidth and childish
> by adult posters. And only "newbies" quote large posts so they can
Then maybe you will consider your own advice next time you start to put people
down. You DID deserve it even if you are NOT the person impersonating me.
> add one line at the botton. Another waiste of band width and time.
....only newbies bother to put shit on people while not knowing how to spell.
Interesting, isnt it?
Refer the letter below:
> cheers
> jim s
>: > When you learn how to use that fible mind that the good Lord gave you
>: ^^^^^
>:
>: Run out of power for the spellchecker at SUCH an embarrassing spot, didnt
>: you?
>: ;-}
>:
>:
>: > get back in touch. Till then have a happy time living in a fabracated
>: ^^^^^^^^^^
>:
>: ....and again!
>:
>:
>: > reality.
>:
>: > jim, impersonator without a clue!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nancy E.Holmes or R. Nelson Ruffin
Well when I visit the city or the burbs with my dogs nowadays of course I
keep them safely leashed to protect them from the people there <G>.
I must say I have seen far to many 'obedience' dogs that have no decent
behaviors instilled in them outside of the ring or training center. Others
have commented on OTCH dogs that ran away off lead and were killed despite
the owner's call. :-(
In my area I have seen a lot of things outside the obedience ring that
saddened me - from junior handlers beating the dog that broke a down :-( to
non-stop barking cage aggressive dogs and handlers 'practicing' with less
than kind methods so the dog won't 'dare' break a command in the ring. No
these are NOT the majority thank goodness but a marker to me on the need to
win that has replaced the showing off of a well trained (and loved)
companion dog.
I was happy to support humane laws such as all shelter dogs must be
neutered, no dog should ride an open truck bed without a safety restraint
and so on. What I would never support is a full time never off the leash
law as I believe owner control is more important than a leash - nor a
muzzle in public type law or many of the other propositions made by the
clueless.
Nancy
PumknThief <pumkn...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19971018024...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> The laws I support are there to keep dogs and people safe. I have no
problem
> with "pet training" and believe that EVERY dog should have at least
that. I
> don't see how a dog who will not come to it's owner out of the obedience
ring
> can perform consistantly enough to get an OTCH (at least in my area).
Keep to
> the country and I'll leash my dogs, here in the 'burbs where there is a
street
> in front of my house.>Subject: Re: keep 'em on a leash!
>
Kingsley Hernandez
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