Wire Fox Terrier Puppy aggressive at 7 wks old
-
puppy. She looks very sweet. However, she is definitely very aggressive. I
fed her together with my friend's shih tzu puppy from the same bowl and she
started growling. The growling grew louder when the shih tzu did not retreat
and continued to eat from the same bowl. And finally, she snapped the shih
tzu in the muzzle and refused to let go despite the puppy's cry. I was very
appalled. She also growled when I put my hand near the bowl. I know Fox
Terriers can be aggressive but never expect her to be so aggressive at just
7 weeks old! I wanted to make sure and at the next meal I fed her with the
bigger dogs (much bigger than her)around. When they crowded round her, she
started growling again. Is this a normal protective behaviour? I have also
realised in the past 2 days, that she is not very sociable with dogs. She
does not like to play with them nor get close to them. But she is not
fearless. Tail is always up and she explores the house on her own. Do I
really have a problematic dog? What should I do?
Louie
-
I do understand what you mean. What you have said seems true.
However, I am still concerned over her growling at humans nearing her food,
as well as her refusal to play with the other puppies. I have heard that
puppies that do not play will grow up to be aggressive. How true can this
be?
Please advise. Thank you.
Louis
sionnach
"-" <lw...@pacific.net.sg> wrote:
> However, I am still concerned over her growling at humans nearing her
>food,
There's a very simple method which often cures the problem of food
guarding: feed the dog out of your hand.
When it's supper time, put all the other dogs out of the room, or take the
puppy in a separate room. (The bathroom can be handy for this.) Sit down
with the bowl in your lap, and feed it to the puppy bit by bit, off off the
FLAT of your hand.
Serves several purposes: builds a bond between you and pup, teaches pup
that you are a source of good things, and teaches pup that YOU control
resources.
DON'T let the big dogs crowd around her when she eats. I have three dogs,
one of which is a Jack Russell terrier. Each dog has a personal bowl and a
designated eating spot, and they are NOT allowed to pester each other.
My 8-lb JRT puppy will growl if my 58-lb Coonhound mix approaches her
food bowl while she's eating; she is well within her rights to do so, and he
respects the message and backs off. If she approached *his* bowl while he
was eating, not only did he growl, but I verbally corrected her. (I.e. I
said "anh!", then praised when she backed off.)
> as well as her refusal to play with the other puppies. I have heard that
> puppies that do not play will grow up to be aggressive. How true can this
> be?
Louis, a question: what are the temperaments of her parents like,
especially the dam?
-
I have no way of finding out how the dam is like. Well, to be honest, I do
not think the breeder is very responsible. If he is, he would not have
allowed the puppy to go at such a young age.... How could I get her to
play more? to be more open?
Louis
TO...@dog-play.com
> Hi, I have recently gotten myself a female 7 weeks old Wire Fox Terrier
> puppy.
Have you owned any of the terrier breeds before?
> She looks very sweet. However, she is definitely very aggressive. I
> fed her together with my friend's shih tzu puppy from the same bowl and she
> started growling.
Normal for the breed. If this is not the kind of dog you want now is the
time to rehome the puppy.
> The growling grew louder when the shih tzu did not retreat
> and continued to eat from the same bowl. And finally, she snapped the shih
> tzu in the muzzle and refused to let go despite the puppy's cry. I was very
> appalled.
Perhaps this is not the right breed for you. Part of owning terriers is
not to put them in that kind of position. The other part is stepping in
and preventing problems before they get that far.
> She also growled when I put my hand near the bowl. I know Fox
> Terriers can be aggressive but never expect her to be so aggressive at just
> 7 weeks old!
She is a baby saying NO! NO! NO! when you threatend what she wants. Part
of owning terriers is to understand that it is normal and teach the puppy
to feel comfortable with that kind of interference.
> I wanted to make sure and at the next meal I fed her with the
> bigger dogs (much bigger than her)around. When they crowded round her, she
> started growling again. Is this a normal protective behaviour?
No, it is normal defensive behavior.
> I have also
> realised in the past 2 days, that she is not very sociable with dogs.
Did you expect her to be sociable with dogs? Why? They are generally
sociable with people, but not with dogs. AS for people, it can take a
even a puppy time to warm up especially if they are in an environment
full of anxiety producing events - like getting surrounded by a pack of
big dogs, another pup trying to steal dinner, and this strange human now
threatening dinner.
> She
> does not like to play with them nor get close to them. But she is not
> fearless. Tail is always up and she explores the house on her own. Do I
> really have a problematic dog? What should I do?
From the breed standard "The Terrier should be alert, quick of movement,
keen of expression, on the tip-toe of expectation at the slightest
provocation."
I think you have taken on a dog that is not a comfortable fit for you.
You might disagree and think is it the puppy that is over-the-top. Maybe.
It is possible. But the fact that you twice put the puppy into a position
the was inapproriate for a terrier (competition for food) suggests that
the problem is more in your expectations for dogs than this puppy.
If you think this is a criticism it is not. Or at least it is not
intended that way. Each of us has different dogs that we like and
dislike, and different behaviors that make us comfortable or
uncomfortable. A terrier is always going to be feisty and pugnacious.
That character is something that most terrier owners cherish. They
can raise the pups to be good companions because the handle situations
such as you describe in a number of ways. First they try to avoid putting
the dog in a situation. Second they know that the behavior comes from
anxiety that the dog is going to lose a resource. So they teach the dog
by trading, and distraction and a variety of other methods that very often
giving up what one has results in getting something even better.
Did the breeder make you feel comfortable about calling and asking
questions? If the answer is "yes" that is a good sign. If the answer is
"no" - well take a look at the contract and see if you have a responsible
breeder, one who will take the puppy back, or help you through this. With
your level of uncertainty I would not keep the puppy unless you get
individual guidence and help.
Diane Blackman
http://www.dog-play.com http://www.dog-play.com/TOTE.html
You can give a person facts, but you can't make them think.
http://www.dissension.com/logic/logic.html
Jerry Howe
"sionnach" <rhyf...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:9po8j7$jm4kn$1...@ID-45033.news.dfncis.de...
>
> "-" <lw...@pacific.net.sg> wrote:
> > However, I am still concerned over her growling at humans
> > nearing her food,
> There's a very simple method which often cures the problem of
> food guarding: feed the dog out of your hand.
Yes, but that's not the problem here. Food guarding isn't a food issue.
Food is one symptom of the root cause of the problem which transcends
every other area confidence, leadership, and control and all the related
behaviors they effect and the bond of the relationship.
Food is only one small part of it. All symptoms of all behaviors are
not the problem, only symptoms of the problem which needs to be
addressed because the nature of most behavior problems are that they are
a fundamental fault in the relationship, training, or handling which
will subvert everything you wnat from your dog.
> When it's supper time, put all the other dogs out of the room, or
> take the puppy in a separate room. (The bathroom can be handy
> for this.)
Got that from shirley chong who's so successful with her craphouse
conditioning that she relies on pronged pinch spiked choke and shock
collars...
> Sit down with the bowl in your lap, and feed it to the puppy bit by
> bit, off off the FLAT of your hand.
The dog knows HOWE to eat. Opening the hand flat is for a horse. Dogs
will grab the fingers pretty good like that. That's why Chicken Fist is
the preferred way to teach a pup to take food gently.
> Serves several purposes: builds a bond between you and pup,
Like the slop bucket? You think food is going to make the dog respect
and love you? That's pretty sick.
> teaches pup that you are a source of good things,
Teaches the pup that you're a greedy self indulged person. Greed is part
of this dogs problem. Ever think of that? The dog is protective over his
dish because he doesn't TRUST the others in the environment. The dog is
scared someone is going to take her stuff.
Giving the dog more food won't teach her to trust everyone there while
she eats, or even the op when he puts the bowl back where it is supposed
to be. This dog probably knows HOWE to take treats from people. It's her
dish on the floor that's the problem, and next it might be her toys.
> and teaches pup that YOU control resources.
Like the back door? Forget it, you're thinking like a university
student.
> DON'T let the big dogs crowd around her when she eats.
Nobody should bother nobody while they eat. Could get agita getting
pestered at dinner time.
> I have three dogs, one of which is a Jack Russell terrier. Each dog
> has a personal bowl and a designated eating spot, and they are
> NOT allowed to pester each other.
Wonderful...
> My 8-lb JRT puppy will growl if my 58-lb Coonhound mix
> approaches her food bowl while she's eating;
"and they are NOT allowed to pester each other." Right...
> she is well within her rights to do so,
"and they are NOT allowed to pester each other." Remember?
> and he respects the message and backs off.
Excuse me, liar? "and they are NOT allowed to pester each other?"
> If she approached *his* bowl while he was eating, not only did he
> growl,
"and they are NOT allowed to pester each other." You strokin us?
> but I verbally corrected her.
Causing more anxiety and mistrust.
> (I.e. I said "anh!", then praised when she backed off.)
Because you are physically in control, means when you turn your back,
they're in control, cause the kat's away.
Furthermoore, when we make a distraction we praise immediately, not when
the behavior we want happens, because that's what causes the behavior to
happen, the praise instantly following the distraction, not several
seconds later, because the dog will be thinking of something different,
like maybe taking the other dogs food again, and you'd be telling him
that's a good thought.
Dogs think much faster than you do, sionnach. That's because they think
reflexively, not thought out as you think you are doing when you alter
the facts to suite your ego.
> > as well as her refusal to play with the other puppies.
She'll probably make friends if you encourage her to play without
telling her to. She may have been punished for being aggressive to other
pups.
> > I have heard thatpuppies that do not play will grow up to be
> > aggressive.
Puppys who are mishandled grow up to be aggressive.
> > How true can this be?
Not all mishandled dogs become aggressive, they can have dozens of
problems from just a little stressful training.
> Louis, a question: what are the temperaments of her parents like,
> especially the dam?
It's a little late for that now. Feeding the pup by hand is redundant if
the pup takes food gently already. The problem is the dish, but that's
not the cause of the problem. The most likely cause of a dog growling
over food or hiding a toy or bone in the house is TRUST. If the dog
don't trust everyone, you'll never fix the problem. Giving the dog
something and taking away and trading doesn't teach trust as your pal
leah found out after going through two weeks of "possesiveness training"
with Madigan. leah got bit holding her bone.
That's because the issue isn't giving and taking and trading, it's the
deep down gut level stuff that makes separation anxiety and protection
and fear of thunder and aggression. All these behaviors are closely
related to confidence and leadership. That's why I start every dog off
doing the Family Leadership Exercise.
But you might want to start off with something like hurt the dog enough
to trust that you're gonna throw him down and growl in his throat and
bite his ear again if he pisses you off or scares you.
Oh, I forgot. This guy's got a terrier. You can't get physical with one
of them cause they'll attack you about fifty times for thinking about
it. That's why you need the pronged spiked pinch choke or shock collar.
O.K.
"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog I Do Not Believe There
Is A Single Circumstance Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is Anything
But Destructive" amy "Get A 30"- 40" Stick. CHUCK IT Under ITS
Chin With That Ever Ready Right Hand," dahl.
"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap," professora gingold.
Hello People,
What's troubling our little NAZI'S today?
> I like to read what you post, but plowing through that drivel to get
> to it just isn't worth it.
Well then, I strongly suggest you pack your German Spiked Pinch
Choke and thirty five levels of static like stimulation shock collar,
training stick and your swatstika, and get the heel outta here
because this is where people come to get information and ideas..
despite the fact some of our "experts" are getting themselves
exposed as lying dog abusing Thugs.
> He is the only person I have killfiled, and the long quotes
> defeat the purpose.
Sorry good buddy. I suggest you go find dogman and play grab ass
with him and his ilk who'll be reorganizing with him pretty shortly.
> Thank you
Please pardon our appearance while we're remodelling.
> Gg
!CAUTION! Dog abusing lying Thugs. Enter at your own peril! You
are responsible for your own loss of credibility and damages to
careers and reputations resultant from being exposed and
discredited. Proceed at your own risk. This is a violence free zone.
Violators will be subject to prolonged emotional, social and
professional punishment and will be pursued to the gates of Heel
and kept within under guard of a Wits' End Trained Dog.
> > I use some of Jerry's methods but I will also use other
> > methods...Alpha
There's lots of methods beyond my own that I condone. My intent is
not to limit methods and tools, but to OBVIATE them through use of
a cohesive gestalt as presented in the FREE Wits' End Dog Training
Method manual.
> > Treat your dog like a dog
Seems we got two kinds of trainers.
One kind are the experts who approach every dog as an individual
and hurts and kills them individually, as necessary... and the other
kind like you and me and Marilyn and Patch and Canis55 who train
every individual the same way, using non violence and letting
everyone live through training someHOWE, without hurting nobody.
Let's weight that out... On one hand we got experts who hurt and kill
some dogs. On the other we got trainers who never hurt nobody and
train dogs successfully without pain and death. Hmmm. Let's work
that out? PAIN + DEATH, Vs FUN + LIFE.
PAIN/DEATH.
FUN/LIFE.
PAIN, DEATH.
FUN, LIFE.
OPTIONS: KILL, LIVE.
O.K. What's the choices again?
live or die?
CANDACE!!!~~~~ j;~}
Here's a couple posters who learned the hard way:
misty" <Mom...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:6946-3B6...@storefull-233.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring. Two dogs,
> two collars We now have one dog and no collars.
> Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not want to come back
> in the yard and would run for days. The last time, Peach didn't
> come back home.
> I used the Wit's End Training Manual to learn how to train my dog.
> She is now border trained. A few minutes each day reinforces
> her desire to stay in the yard. She no longer runs out into the
> road, I can stop her from chasing cats and she no longer cringes
> when we walk around the yard.
> I can not say loud or long enough how much I hate the e-fence
> and its collars. If you can't get a regular fence then you need to
> train your dog. I will never rely on an electronic collar to keep my
> dog in our yard again. The price was too high:-(
> ~misty
"Charlie Wilkes" <charlie...@easynews.com> wrote in message
news:pjaootcg8dgrptuu9...@4ax.com...
> I read up on rotties, pitbulls, etc., and quite a bit of the
> literature suggested I needed to assert my dominance and "make
> the dog earn everything it gets." I tried this once or twice, just by
> taking a stern tone of voice, and the results were terrible. The pup
> got scared and just wanted to stay away from me.
> That's why I support Jerry Howe and his FREE Wits' End Dog
> Training
> manual -- that and the fact that Jerry is an all-around great guy.
> The core takeaway I got from Jerry's manual is this: make yourself
> the center of your puppy's world -- his personal Lord Jesus. Never
> give him a reason to fear you or think you're angry. Love the heck
> out of him, and you'll end up with a great dog.
> This has truly worked with my puppy. She'll do anything I want
> her to, if she understands, because she trusts me 100 percent,
> and nothing is more important in her world than her relationship
> with me.
> Charlie
<"Terri"@cyberhighway
> Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
> He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
> watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
> Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
> come forward and actually believe in his training manual.
Rober Crim writes:
I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs since
I freely admit to having read and, I hope, understood enough
of the manual and it's counterparts by John Fisher and the
posts of Marylin Rammell to believe and use it. This naive
child would like to say thank you to both Jerry and Marylin for
putting up with a constant barrage of really infantile crap at
the hands of supposedly adult dog lovers.
The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the nagging
idea that if people like them had been posting earlier, maybe
we would not have had to hold the head of a really
magnificent animal in our arms while he was given the
needle and having to hug him and wait until he gasped
his last gasp.
To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog into
good behavior. Naive is believing that people that hide
behind fake names are more honest than people that use
their real names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog
breeders and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY,
j.h.) are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.
"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing that
people like Jerry Howe and Marylin Rammell are going to
just go away because you people act like fools. Why do you
act like fools? I really have no idea, and I don't really care.
> And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and actually
> admit to buying and having success with his little black
> box.
I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and take
it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and testing. You
would never believe the results, so you'll never know.
> Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
> Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming to
> him! LOL!
I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve, eh?
As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.
>Terri
Yes it was, and that is sad.
Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to listen to the box
first?)
Hello People,
Robert Crim was a former Gang Of Thugs Member, and
hated me a much as the rest of our Thugs do. Robert was a
long time friend and prominent contributor to rpdb, till Jerry
came along and smartened him up. He learned the hard
way, and no longer posts to his former pals, because it is
just too painful knowing his pals would rather HURT and
KILL their dogs than to admit that JERRY is RIGHT.
Margaret Hoffman
Message 1 of 19
Doggy Do Right and Jerry Howe
I just recently looked at this newsgroup and I found it
incredible. I do have a Doggy Do Right and have had it for
about one year. It truly does work - at least on my Dobe,
Chelsea. Chelsea was the unhappy recipient of several failed
attempts at obedience training, both in a "class" environment
and with a personal trainer. She is very high spirited and
strong and, unfortunately, spoiled, since we are an older
couple who doted on our dog. We were lucky enough to find Jerry
Howe and to not only buy a Doggy Do Right, but to also have him
personally work with Chelsea.
His methods are wonderful and effective. Chelsea is not a dog
that you will bully, and I wouldn't dream of hurting her. After
Jerry spent time with her, she no longer jumped on furniture,
ate food off the counter, pulled me incessantly on the leash.
She is calmer and we are all happier. Well, it is a very long
story and I won't bore you with all the details, but suffice it
to say that Jerry Howe saved the day for our dog and for us.
Marge Hoffman. (REWARD PAID BY DW.)
P.S. You can send me the reward money, but I won't sell you my DDR!
Hi Jerry,
I received email from Mark Shaw on 10/6 which I just read today.
Sorry I didn't have time to get to it sooner. We have had a lot
going on in our area concerning animals. We formed a new Task
Force to address spay/neuter, pet overpopulation and animal
abuse. I needed to do a lot of research before the first meeting and
time was just not available for anything else.
Anyway the letter went on to say that we are in collusion, I tried
to defraud him, and have sent none of the materials that he has
asked for although he has yet to furnish the P.O. Box number that
he wanted them sent to in the first place. He goes on to state that
I am no longer eligible for the "fictions reward." All of this is in
answer to postings that prove I was "sharing" his email with you
which in his opinion was a breach of good manners. His email only
had terms and conditions of the reward which I would consider
"public information."
Be that as it may, I would like to state that you had my permission
to post any email I have sent you regarding DDR including this
email.
I'm very sorry that you have to put up with this type of situation
from someone that obviously never intended to make good on his
reward offer in the first place.
I had a call from a friend of mine with a very aggressive cat. I
have loaned her my DDR for a few weeks to see if it will calm JR
down. I will let you know the results. She goes to the same holistic
vet that I go to and he is also interested.
In case Mark does post to the list again I would like to say that I
do very much believe that DDR will help JR as I know it has helped
my dogs and cats. I have entirely too much to do, to worry about his
opinions or reward.
The only reason I was willing to apply for the reward was on your
behalf as I do think your product is a valuable tool in helping with
aggression and other behavior problems.
I am in Feral Cat Network (we spay and neuter approximately 100
feral cats a month), I am also a member of a local AKC dog
obedience club, member of a local AKC agility club, president of
Pet Rescue, board member of the Alliance for Care and Welfare of
Animals (on the board are: county commissioner, vet. rep., rep. from
AKC dog club, CFA cat club, assistant County manager, head of
animal control, director of two different shelters, etc.).
I listed these not to be on an ego trip but to let Mark know that I
am involved with animals and have very little time to play games
with him also I would not recommend your product if I did not
believe in it.
Please feel free to post this email as it has no copyright on it as
did Mark Shaw's last email to me.
Take care Jerry and don't let the Mark's of the world get you down.
Elaine
Thank you, Elaine. I have been trying to educate the mark's of this
world, with some occasional successes. I guess that's variable
reinforcement?
Yours, Jerry.
Elaine McClung, President of Pet Rescue writes: Sep 9,
2000
"I ordered from Jerry a long time ago.. He was helpful and
the order was filled promptly. Yes, Doggie Do Right does
indeed exist.
I "had" a very aggressive female Pit.. She was showing
aggression not only towards Dok, Rhodesian Ridgeback,
but our cats and even us.
She now plays with Dok, even to the point of allowing him
to take a toy or bone from her. She no longer shows any
aggression towards us. She is showing some aggression
towards the cats but that is down to a warning growl.
It is not just my opinion that all this aggression existed
before Doggie Do Right as we were advised by three vets
to euthanize her.
I do very much believe that DDR will help JR as I know it
has helped my dogs and cats. I do think your product is a
valuable tool in helping with aggression and other behavior
problems.
I am in Feral CatNetwork (we spay and neuter approximately
100 feral cats a month), I am also a member of a local AKC
dog obedience club, member of a local AKC agility club,
president of Pet Rescue, board member of the Alliance for
Care and Welfare of Animals (on the board are: county
commissioner, vet. rep., rep. from AKC dog club, CFA cat
club, assistant County manager, head of animal control,
director of two different shelters, etc.).
Thanks, Elaine,
"I know that most men, including those at ease with
problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept
even the simplest and most obvious truth if it would
oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they
have delighted in explaining to colleagues, proudly
taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by
thread, into the fabric of their lives."
-Leo Tolstoy-
Is it any wonder that the following sig file has generated
more complaints to my personal email than any other
controversial post I have made to date, bar none?:
CAVEAT
If you have to do things to your dog to train him that you
would rather not have to do, then you shouldn't be doing
them. If you have a dog trainer who tells you to jerk your
dog around, choke him, pinch his ears, or twist his toes,
shock, shake, slap, scold, hit, chin cuff, scruff shake or
punish your dog in any manner, that corrections
are appropriate, that the dog won't think of you as the
punisher, or that corrections are not harmful, or if they
can't train your dog to do what you want, look for a
trainer that knows HOWE.
Sincerely,
Jerry Howe,
Wits' End Dog Training
Witse...@aol.com
http://www.doggydoright.com
Nature, to be mastered, must be obeyed.
-Francis Bacon-
There are terrible people who, instead of solving a
problem, bungle it and make it more difficult for all who
come after. Who ever can't hit the nail on the head
should, please, not hit at all.
-Nietzsche-
The abilities to think, rationalize and solve problems are
learned qualities.
The Wits' End Dog Training Method challenges the learning
centers in the dogs brain. These centers, once challenged,
develop and continue to grow to make him smarter.
The Wits' End Dog Training method capitalizes on
praising split seconds of canine thought, strategy, and
timing, not mindless hours of forced repetition, constant
corrections, and scolding.
-Jerry Howe
-
Thanks for your reply to my posting.
I do own 2 Jack Russell Terriers myself at the moment but they are far from
being aggressive. In fact, other than bolting and whining after cats and
other dogs in a park, they are very sweet natured. They love to play and
they even share food together from the same bowl. When they meet other dogs
outside, they would play together and readily accepts any people or dog into
the house. I have known terriers to be playful and always ready for a game.
As such, this little puppy's aloofness is a little different from what I had
expected. She is definitely okay with people but I am hoping that by
socializing her early with other dogs, she would learn to accept them as
members in the same household at least. I still find it a little over the
top that a puppy is not playing when it should be...
Louis
Diane Blackman
"-" <lw...@pacific.net.sg> wrote in message
news:9pood8$l6e$1...@newton.pacific.net.sg...
Hmmm, Ok, well let's just assume that the pup is over the top. Now what?
I'd bet you already have a pretty good idea of the challenge you face.
Basic
temperament issues really can't be changed by training. You can moderate
them (make them less intense) and you can manage the dog to make prevent
the worst problems from coming out. As young as this pup is and again
assuming
that the behavior is over the top, one has to wonder whether there is a
physical
cause including brain function disorder. I'm guessing you would have a hard
time finding a behaviorist with the training and education to evaluate the
puppy?
If that is the case then you are left with a decision only you can make.
Are you
willing and able to manage a full grown dog of this temerament?
I'd search for copies of some of John Rogerson's books on aggression.
They are out of print but try e-bay or the various sites that sell used
books.
I'm guessing that you can handle acadmeic level texts so if you can't find a
behaviorist to see the dog you still might get some good ideas on management
and
behavior modification by looking at some of the texts in
http://www.dogwise.com e.g Canine Behavior: A Guide for Veterinarians
Without a medical evaluation and diagnosis followed by a behaviorial
evaluation
it is awfully hard to predict what it will take in terms of commitment and
effort
to end up with a nice pet. It could be as simple as taking a new approach
to
teaching and interacting with the puppy, or it may rquire the assistence of
medication. I don't envy the decision making you are facing because no one
can see what you see and thus you pretty much have to go with your guts.
Diane Blackman
Lynn K.
End of the 7th week isn't unusual for a lot of terrier breeders, and
isn't part of the problem. Actually, part of the problem may well be
your expectations for this pup. You seem to think that she should be
ready to jump into play with every dog as if they were her littermates.
That's unrealistic for her age, breed, and length of time in a new home.
Many terriers can't ever play with dogs outside of their own pack, and
that's not a problem for most terrier owners. There are few puppy
temper tantrums (growling, wiggling, snapping, squirming) as impressive
as that of a restrained terrier pup who doesn't want to be restrained :-)
And they are just as determined to get and keep objects of desire (toys,
food, etc.) as any other puppy that age, maybe more so. Just like a
2 yr old human. That's why we train both dogs and children :-)
Lynn K.
sionnach
"Jerry Howe" blithered:
>
> Got that from shirley chong
BZZZZZZZT!! Wrong. Got that from my own personal experiences in
rehabilitating dogs with food issues.
Dogs
> will grab the fingers pretty good like that.
BZZZZZZZT! Wrong. None of mine ever have, nor has any other dog I've ever
met... but since you don't actually have or work with dogs, I can understand
your mistake.
>
> Like the slop bucket? You think food is going to make the dog respect
> and love you? That's pretty sick.
No, I think private time with the owner, having a POSITIVE, nurturing
experience, would be helpful for this baby puppy. Do try reading for
comprehension some time, Jerry- I didn't say anything about "respect"
(that's a real Koehlerite Freudian slip there, btw!), I said it might help
to build a bond.
>
> > teaches pup that you are a source of good things,
>
> > My 8-lb JRT puppy will growl if my 58-lb Coonhound mix
> > approaches her food bowl while she's eating;
> > she is well within her rights to do so,
> > and he respects the message and backs off.
>
> "and they are NOT allowed to pester each other." Right...
That's correct- they are not allowed to pester each other. Do try reading
for comprehension sometime, Jerry- "pester" does not = "approach once".
If you don't understand words of more than one syllable, try
www.dictionary.com.
If Brenin didn't back off immediately,I would ask him to do so. I've
never needed to, though- he respects the puppy's rights. He's used to
standing near Morag and waiting for her to finish so he can lick the bowl;
Mw doesn't mind, but Roxy likes a little more space. She just has to remind
him of that once in a while.
Incidentally, I feed her side by side with Morag, who was *seriously* into
food-guarding when I first got her; never occurs to either one of them to
worry about the other.
> > If she approached *his* bowl while he was eating, not only did he
> > growl,
>
> "and they are NOT allowed to pester each other." You strokin us?
Jerry, do you *enjoy* making yourself look really, really, stupid? That
sentence is in the PAST TENSE. That's because she only tried to put moves on
his food a few times, before she learned the house rules. It never even
occurs to her to bother him any more, now that she understands what's his
and what's hers.
> > but I verbally corrected her.
>
> Causing more anxiety and mistrust.
BZZZZZZZZ! Wrong. One, there wasn't any "anxiety and mistrust" to begin
with- just a pesty puppy testing her boundaries & the tolerance of her
elders- and two, she cheerfully accepted the setting of the appropriate
boundary; appropriate boundaries make puppies very secure and trustful.
But then, you've never actually raised a puppy, so I wouldn't expect you
to understand.
>
> Because you are physically in control,
Hah. No, I wasn't anywhere near them; I just looked up from my book, and
said "Anh!" in a mild tone.
>means when you turn your back,
> they're in control, cause the kat's away.
Not at all. I can put down all three bowls and walk out of the room- no
problems, because they've been taught to respect each other's eating space.
Jerry, you need to put down your library books, get out from behind your
computer, and go spend some time with REAL dogs- you clearly don't
understand very much about normal pack interactions.
You really ought to come to my house and see all five (or six or seven,
when I have a boarder or two) of my animals getting along just fine- you
might actually learn something REAL about dogs.
Cathy Sullivan
> You really ought to come to my house and see all five (or six or seven,
> when I have a boarder or two) of my animals getting along just fine- you
> might actually learn something REAL about dogs.
Don't get your hopes up. Jerry doesn't learn much of anything except
learning to make up lies about people.
-
How I envy you! Are they fox terriers too?
Louis
"Cathy Sullivan" <csul...@network.net> wrote in message
news:ts0tfnq...@corp.supernews.com...
sionnach
"Cathy Sullivan" wrote:
>
> Don't get your hopes up. Jerry doesn't learn much of anything except
> learning to make up lies about people.
Heh. Yes, I know that- I was participating in this NG for some time before
JarJar showed up with his crass sales techniques; I've seen the entire
evolution of his fictitious on-online persona.
Of COURSE he won't come and see my dogs- if he did, he'd have to give up
telling lies about me. <G> He's been attacking me for years... mostly
because I laughed at him when he claimed he was going to come to Baltimore
and put Janet Boss out of business, and poked holes in some lies he was
telling about her.
(Janet and I live in the same city; my family has adopted numerous pets
from the shelter she's on the board of, I know many of her former and
current students, and we have mutual friends in the agility/flyball arena.)
Sarah (Pack Leader and Mamcat)
Brenin, CGC, AD, S-OAC, S-OJC, O-OGC, EJC, EAC, 1/2 EGC
Gwydion, Purring Monitor Ornament and Wicked Cat Extraordinaire
Morag, O-NAC, S-NJC, O-NGC, OJC
Robyn Meezer, Inspector of Human Activity & Eeevil Cat
Roxy, Baby Brat
we can be seen at: http://photos.yahoo.com/amberdogs2
sionnach
> Hi Cathy,
>
> How I envy you! Are they fox terriers too?
erm- are you responding to the line "You really ought to come to my house
and see all five (or six or
seven, when I have a boarder or two) of my animals getting along just
fine"?
If so, those are my words; Cathy was quoting the bit of my post which she
was responding to. :-)
And the answer is no, none of them are AKC "Fox Terriers"; however, one of
them is a baby Jack Russell, which, as you probably know, is the
**original** fox terrier. <G> The other four are a male Redbone Coonhound
mix (he's also got Chow, Boxer, and possibly Lab in his ancestry), a Lurcher
bitch (BC x Whippet), a Siamese, and a tabby-and-white DSH.
There's a picture of all six of us at http://photos.yahoo.com/amberdogs2
Boarder dogs include an 80-lb Lab, a Lab-Dal cross, an ancient Lab mix,
and an English Shepherd mix.
Jerry Howe
Here's the discussion of her assault battery and mayhem. Following it is
her recap of what she did... And following that is her
IR-rationalization of it to jenn. Sounds like the only thing similar is
the dog who's not in question any longer as being a victim is
probably still a labradoradog...
sionnach wrote:
It's quite common for ignorant owners to let them get away
with things as little puppies because they're little and "cute", which
leads the little shits to decide they're in charge of the household, and
display the sort of possessive/dominant behaviour the OP described.
It's also, unfortunately, common for owners to react as the OP did,
with an over-reaction of shock & anger that their "sweet little puppy"
is acting that way (DUH! It's a *terrier*!!), and fear of the dog at the
same time.
Which, of course, leads to the dog not trusting the owner, and
becoming even more likely to bite; terriers tend to have a very strong
sense of fairness, and will NOT tolerate stupid handling.
Don't get me wrong, btw- I *like* terriers; I had a Welsh Terrier cross
for 14 years, and am currently (doG help me!) raising a JRT. Terriers
need calm, firm, no-nonsense handling, and are *not* a good choice
for a first-time owner. You CANNOT **force** a terrier to do anything,
and fighting with them will get you in serious trouble.
But you also cannot allow them to think they're in charge of you.
To give you an example of what I mean by "not letting a terrier pup
get away with things":
First day I had my JRT home (at that point, she weighed just under
five pounds <g>), I played tug with her with a fuzzy toy. After a bit,
she got excited, and tried to take it away from me by growling and
pouncing/grabbing at my hand. The indulgent sort of owner (as I
suspect the OP initially was) would go "Aw, isn't that cute!" and give
the toy.
The over-reacting/ignorant sort of owner (as the OP is now) would
punish the pup by yelling, smacking, chasing, rolling her over, etc.
I simply closed my hand over the toy and said "Anh!" every time she
grabbed; took her about 30 seconds to realise that it wasn't getting
her anywhere. The instant she calmed, I praised and resumed play.
IOW when she displays dominant/aggressive behaviour- as all
puppies will, as they test the parameters of their world- the
appropriate response is to CALMLY inform her that it ain't gonna
work, and make it worth her while to behave cooperatively.
At this point, my opinion is that the OP has royally screwed up in a
number of ways, and needs to do one of two things: 1. get the help
of a trainer or behaviourist who understands terriers, and rebuild a
*healthy* relationship with the dog or 2. Give the dog to a terrier
rescue group- NOT a shelter!- and get a Gund.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"NBlomgren" wrote:
> The closest I came to overreacting was after taking different
> approaches to her play-biting. "No" didn't do it. "NO!" didn't work. I
> tried to say "ow" like a hurt puppy. Didn't work.
> Finally I bit her back. On the top of the head. Not hard, but she felt
> my teeth.
> Her reaction: she sat very still and looked at me. And we've never
> had a problem since.
Heh. I know that look! <G> Yup, sometimes you just plain have to
"speak dog" to 'em- some dogs just don't get it unless you do.
About 18 months ago, I ended up nipping an obnoxiously exuberant
Lab puppy who was doing a hooked-fish imitation, determined that
she was going to bolt off down the trail and drag me with her.
I should explain, btw, that said "puppy" was 8 months and already
75 lb, and that I'm 4' 11 3/4" and weigh under 105; that she was
accustomed to dragging her much larger male owner around; and
that she was quite definitely testing what she could get away with, as
the previous dogwalker had been utterly unable to control her and
had refused to take her any more.
Thing was, the behavior had *worked* on the last dog-walker- when
the dog pulled the yanking, bouncing, whirling-dervish bit, she would
drop the leash & let her run! Talk about teaching bad behaviour! :-P
The "make like a tree" thing (my usual response to leash-pulling)
didn't work; yes, I could keep her from taking off, but instead of
figuring out that she needed to try a different behaviour, and giving
me something to praise, she increased the behaviour. Nor did any
attempts at verbal distraction work; she was *determined* that she
was going to yank the leash out of my hand and bolt down the trail
after other dogs.
When it was obvious that she had NO intention of paying any
attention to anything but the other dogs (and that I was in danger of
having my arm dislocated <G>), I didn't even think about it; I
dropped the leash, threw my right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
grabbed her opposite foot with my left hand, rolled her on her side,
leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and nipped her ear (not particularly
hard- I wasn't trying to *hurt* her, just get her attention!).
Whole thing took less than a second- I immediately released her,
and she jumped up, wagging her tail, looked at me (for the first time)
and SAT. Her whole attitude was "Hey, cool! I UNDERSTAND you; I
get it; whatchu want??". I praised her, had her walk with me for
about ten feet, then asked for a sit and released her to play with the
other dogs.
We've been the best of friends ever since. :-) She's a really cool dog-
pity her owners don't have the time or desire to work with her, 'cause
I think she'd make a *great* SAR dog.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If you mean the message of nipping the dog is "do what I say
because I'm bigger", (or in my case, rolling the dog on it's side for a
moment), you're wrong. In the case of NB's puppy, it sent the
message of "HEY! I don't like that!"- just as another dog would
communicate it with a nip if the pup didn't respond to milder
complaints.
In my case, it sent two messages: One was "I don't like what you're
doing, and you better knock it off!", and the other- the main one-
was "Hey! I am somebody worth paying attention to!"
>which could encourage dog to see the
> relationship in terms of brute force.
I think the OP's dog *does* see things that way, and that's the
problem.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>But that's HOWE you LIKE to treat your friends.
Yep. I like to have clear communication with my friends, and I don't
let my friends take advantage of me.
> > She's a really cool dog-
> Yes, she's a really cool dog to bite, isn't she.
Didn't bite her, Jerry, I nipped her. One does damage, and is
aggression; the other does not, and is communication. Of course, if
you had ever actually spent time working with and observing real
dogs (instead of sitting home reading books about them and
obsessively posting 24-7), you'd know that.
> I wish it hadn't worked the first time, and you learned the
> hard way by getting your face ripped off and spit out.
:-D Never in a million years, Jerry. Don't know much about Labs, do
you? Come and watch her play with her best Lab buddy sometime.
They *enjoy* knocking each other down and chewing on each other's
faces."
Someone's either crazy or lying... Figure it out and square me
away please. j;~)
sionnach
"Jerry Howe wrote:
> Someone's either crazy or lying... Figure it out and square me
> away please.
Very simple, dear: it's not an either/or- YOU are both. :-)
Jerry Howe
Try this:
"she was *determined* that she was going to yank the leash out of
my hand and bolt down the trail after other dogs.
When it was obvious that she had NO intention of paying any
attention to anything but the other dogs (and that I was in danger of
having my arm dislocated <G>), I didn't even think about it;
I dropped the leash, threw my right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
grabbed her opposite foot with my left hand, rolled her on her side,
leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and nipped her ear (not particularly
hard- I wasn't trying to *hurt* her, just get her attention!).
==============
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Someone's either crazy or lying... Figure it out and square me
away please. j;~)
Jerry Howe
"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog I Do Not Believe There
sionnach
"Jerry Howe" wrote:
>
> Try this:
Try this, darlin': you're wasting your time. You're also handing us the
means to have you kicked off yet another ISP for copyright violation, since
I haven't given you permission to use my writing. :-)
sionnach
> "Jerry Howe" wrote:
Oh, and BTW- I notice that you haven't bothered to answer any of my
comments as to your lack of real-life experience with dogs. Hit a bit close
to home, did I, dearie? :-D
TO...@dog-play.com
> Of COURSE he won't come and see my dogs- if he did, he'd have to give up
> telling lies about me. <G>
No, he would just acquire a broader set of lies to tell. Evidence of
truth is only meaningful to someone capable of rational thinking.
Diane Blackman
http://www.dog-play.com/ http://www.dog-play.com/TOTE.html
More than 90% of people ingesting dihydrogen monoxide between 1900 and
1905 have experienced serious health problems and died! Join the coalition
to ban dihydrogen monoxide! http://www.ifst.org/no_dhmo.htm
Jerry Howe
"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog I Do Not Believe There
Is A Single Circumstance Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is Anything
But Destructive" amy "Get A 30"- 40" Stick. CHUCK IT Under ITS
Chin With That Ever Ready Right Hand," dahl.
"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap," professora gingold.
"Nor did any attempts at verbal distraction work; she was
*determined* that she was going to yank the leash out of my hand
and bolt down the trail after other dogs.
When it was obvious that she had NO intention of paying any
attention to anything but the other dogs (and that I was in danger of
having my arm dislocated <G>), I didn't even think about it; I
dropped the leash, threw my right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
grabbed her opposite foot with my left hand, rolled her on her side,
leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and nipped her ear (not particularly
hard- I wasn't trying to *hurt* her, just get her attention!).
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem Quite Harsh And
Cause You To Cringe. This Is A Normal Reaction The First Few
Times It Happens, But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."
Read about our dog lovers methods for training a Retriever dog to
retrieve. What do you suppose they got a capital R in front of their
name for?
And from terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure."
lyingfrosty dahl's stick fetch:
"By now the dog is lunging for the dummy. Stick fetch accomplishes
two things: it teaches the dog that distractions are no excuse to
ignore a "fetch" command and it transfers much of the momentum-
producing power of the ear pinch to the stick, thus providing a basis
for force-on-back.
Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper wield the
stick, or do it yourself. Don't make the stick any more obvious than it
has to be. With the dog at heel, toss the dummy about three feet in
front of the dog. With your hand on the collar and ear, say, "fetch."
Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the stick. Repeat
"fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to the dummy.
Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog, sometimes not hitting it.
Again, you want to make the dog think that by going fast it can avoid
the stick. As it catches on, try using the stick and no ear pinch.
Usually not many sessions are needed (maybe 3-6). When the dog is
digging out to beat the stick and seems totally reliable without any
ear pinch, you are finished--you have successfully force-fetched your
retriever.
Many trainers follow force-fetching with a "walking fetch" drill where
several dummies are lying on the ground, ten feet or more apart.
Trainer approaches dummies with dog at heel and says, "fetch" as
dog's attention focuses on the first dummy. Any refusals are
corrected with the ear pinch. After the dog sits to deliver, the trainer
can drop the dummy behind the dog for a later circuit.
When performance is smooth, the stick can be added just as in the fetch
from a sitting position. If the previous steps have been carefully
done, the dog will soon be lunging eagerly for each dummy as soon
as it sees it.
We then work on getting the dog to wait until it is commanded to
"fetch," using repeated "heel" commands and jerks on the lead.
Generally we don't pursue this to the point where it is absolute--the
dog's getting the idea is enough. Not all youngsters can take heavy
drilling on contradictory ideas such as "go" and "don't go."
"Happy bumpers" can also be good for the dog's attitude.
The walking fetch drill makes the transition to picking up a dummy
the dog finds on the ground, not only one which has just been
thrown or placed by the trainer. Now the dog can be sent to a pile,
the foundation for forcing on "back" and for blind retrieves. It can be
sent, with appropriate hand signals, to side and back piles, making
an introduction to casting. And of course, the dog should deliver
perfectly and you, as trainer, have the tools to enforce this: command
"hold" as the dog emerges from water and considers putting the bird
down to shake, and pinch its ear if a dummy or bird is ever dropped.
While force-fetching is now complete, training has become more varied
and interesting and we are sure you will want to continue.
http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force1.html
http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force2.html
Cindymooreon's forced fetch:
What is Force Fetching All About?
by Cindy Tittle Moore
Copyright 1997,1998 by the
author; all rights reserved.
THE FORCE FETCH
Alright! Now you are (finally) ready to force fetch your dog. I
repeat, you want to have an experienced person help you out,
someone who has already force fetched her own dogs whether for
obedience or field. This step in the training entails what is termed
avoidance behavior. In a nutshell, the dog is taught how to "turn
off" a negative stimulus. He is carefully taught that he has
complete control over it. This is a very effective way of teaching, but
does require a more astute sense of timing than some other training
methods and is very difficult for some people to do, for a variety
of reasons. However, if the dog properly knows HOLD at this point,
it's easily done with a minimum of fuss.
Return to your quiet starting place, with the dog on a collar and
leash in front of you, sitting quietly. Instead of opening his mouth
as you have been for the HOLD, put your hand through the dog's
collar (to hold him steady) and with your thumb and forefinger pinch
the tip of his ears and say TAKE IT (or FETCH, or whatever
you want) Watch his mouth closely -- the moment he opens his
mouth, pop that dumbbell in, let go of his ear but not the collar,
and PRAISE PRAISE PRAISE. Do this three or four times per
session.
When he is opening his mouth in anticipation of the dumbbell, the
next step is to hold the dumbbell just past his lips. This next step
is for him to move his head forward that inch (or half inch)
necessary to get the dumbbell. At this point, he has a pretty good
notion that getting that darned thing into his mouth is the way to
turn off the ear pinch. Most dogs will lean forward and get it. That's
his second milestone! Praise, praise, praise and repeat three or four
times this session. Remember, I said these sessions were no more
than 5 minutes or so each. That's still true.
Gradually extend the distance so he has to reach further to get it.
Now here is where a few subtleties come into play. It's not enough
for him to merely reach out and grab it. You want him to commit to
getting it. You want him to be intent on getting it. If he sort of
limply reaches over and gets it, that's not what you want. If you
pinch him but have to drag him toward the dumbbell, that's not what
you want either. We're back to the visualization. What do you want
him to do? You want him to, if necessary, bust through just about
anything to get that dumbbell. So hold on to that collar until you
feel him pulling out of it to get that. That's his committment. You
want to say TAKE IT and have him just about explode out to get the
dumbbell. As you get further along in this, you will release him
when he's made a good committment -- this will help shape a speedy
response nicely. I think you can see why it helps to have an
experienced person around when you are doing this! It can
be difficult to keep all these things in mind when you are actually
sitting there with a dog in your hands.
About the ear pinch: You must keep the pressure up until the instant
he has the dumbbell securely in his mouth. Many people have
problems getting the pinch right, either they do not pinch enough,
or they have a very stoic dog in which case case a collar may be
needed to help make the pinch more effective. Also some dogs are
screamers, and if they find that they can stop the pinching by
screaming, they've learned the avoidance technique just fine -- but
not with the behavior you had in mind!
Don't let your dog scream. Use your hand to hold his muzzle closed
and tell him to quit moaning. Some dogs will collapse into a
heap. Don't let them do that, that's why your hand is in the collar.
Hold them up and get them back into a sitting position. What your
dog is doing is trying to find other ways of avoiding the ear pinch.
You need to be firm and consistent and demonstrate that
getting the dumbbell is the only means of avoidance.
Remember to keep him under control. When he gets that dumbbell
in his mouth, pull him gently around back to you and sit him back
down. You may in fact want to sit him at your side in the heel
position (whether or not he actually knows the heel position), hold
the dumbbell in front of him, command him to take it and then pull
him back to a front or finish position as you wish. The pattern will
do him good later.
The next major milestone is putting the dumbbell on the ground for
him to pick up. For many dogs this can be a big deal and may be
difficult. Set the dumbbell on the ground just in front of them, with
your hand on the dumbbell. He may not reach for it, he may refuse --
keep up the ear pressure until he finally picks it up. If he really
doesn't seem to understand this, then break this down into an
intermediate step where you hold the dumbbell, but about 1/2 way
between the ground and his mouth.
Once he's picked the dumbbell off the ground, that's a major
milestone and you are just about home free.
As before slowly place the dumbbell further away on the ground in
front of him. Make sure he is pulling out of your hold on the collar
before you let him pick the dumbbell up. If he drops the dumbbell
from this point on, you will get control of him (put him in a sit
with a firm hold on his collar) and pinch him back to the dumbbell --
he can pick it up now so there is no need for you to put it in his
mouth any more. HE is the one responsible for getting it.
When he is reliably picking up the dumbbell a few feet from you,
then you can stop using the pinch at the beginning of the exercise.
You will instead reserve it for when he drops the dumbbell or
refuses to pick it up, etc. So for example, you might go out, place
the dumbbell 6 feet away, put the long lead on him, tell him to take
it. Let's say he hesitates and doesn't go out. Then you pinch, force
him to commit, send him to the dumbbell. Let's say he goes and gets
it, but starts playing with it. Pull him in, and if he hasn't
already dropped the dumbbell, take it out of his mouth, put it back
where it was, and pinch him to it.
There is one last problem you need to watch for. Many dogs,
especially retrievers, will start pouncing on the dumbbell once they
are able to run out a few steps to it before picking it up. So
transition to this point with a long cotton lead about 20-30 feet
long.
With this you can spin him round the moment he scoops up the
dumbbell, teaching him that he cannot play with it. If your dog
drops the dumbbell, use the lead to pull him back to you (do not let
him try to pick it up), and pinch him back to it. the basic rule of
thumb is that if he drops it, he will be pinched back to it regardless.
Thoughts to Consider
Force fetching is never completely done, per se (as with any
exercise taught to a dog). You may need to do a refresher course
when it's something new to pick up, or if it's something disgusting
(like a very dead bird) to pick up. He may also start to get lazy,
you need to keep an eye on him. You may also realize you omitted
some step in training him that shows up later so you will have to go
back and fix it.
But you should also take care to make sure he doesn't forget any of
these hard-earned lessons! Make him carry things for you. He can
carry his own ball out to the park. He can carry his own utility
articles to the ring. He can help you carry a light bag of groceries
into the house. He can help you carry firewood. They will just love
this, and it's a good way to keep the talents honed. Use it!
"The Koehler Method of Dog Training" , Howell Book House, 1996":
BARKING, WHINING, HOWLING, YODELING, SCREAMING, AND WAILING
The fact that you realize you have such a problem
makes it certain you have "reproved" the dog often
enough to let him know you were against his sound
effects, even though your reproving didn't quiet them,
so we'll bypass the loudly clapped hands, the cup of
water in his face, and the "shame-shames" and start
with something more emphatic.
We'll begin with the easiest kind of vocalist to correct:
the one that charges gates, fences, doors, and
windows, barking furiously at familiar or imaginary
people and objects. A few clusters of BBs from a
good slingshot, in conjunction with the light line and
plenty of temptations, will cause such a dog to use his
mind rather than his mouth.
But you won't make the permanent impression unless
you supply dozens of opportunities for him to exercise
the control he thus acquires. Make sure these
opportunities don't always come at the same time
of the day, else he may learn to observe the "quiet
hour" and pursue his old routines at other times.
With the help of the light line, it will be easy to follow
the BBs with a long down to make sure he gets the
most from his lesson. As was mentioned before,
eliminating the senseless barking will not lessen the
dog's value as a watchdog but rather, as he grows
more discriminating, increase it.
The dog who vocalizes in bratty protest or
lonesomeness because you're gone constitutes a
different problem. If it is impractical for someone
to stay with him constantly (there are owners who
cater to neurosis by employing dog sitters), you'll have
to heed the neighbors and the law and quiet the dog.
This calls for a little ingenuity as well as a heavy hand.
Attach a line to your dog's collar, so your corrective
effort doesn't turn into a footrace around the house
until you reach a stalemate under the bed. This use of
the line in the correction will also serve to establish it
as a reminder to be quiet as the dog drags it around
when you're not present.
Next, equip yourself with a man's leather belt or a
strap heavy enough to give your particular dog a good
tanning. Yup-we're going to strike him. Real hard.
Remember, you're dealing with a dog who knows he
should be quiet and neighbors who have legal rights to
see that he does.
When the noise comes, instead of trying to sneak up to
the door so you can barge in while he's still barking,
which is generally impossible, respond to his first
sound with an emphatic bellow of "out," and keep
on bellowing as you charge back to his area.
Thunder through the door or gate, snatch up the belt
that you've conveniently placed, and descend on him.
He'll have no chance to dodge if you grab the line and
reel him in until his front feet are raised off the floor or,
if he's a big dog, until you've snubbed him up with a
hitch on something.
While he's held in close, lay the strap vigorously against his thighs.
Keep pouring it on him until he thinks it's the bitter
end. A real whaling now may cut down somewhat on
the number of repeat performances that will be
necessary.
When you're finished and the dog is convinced that he
is, put him on a long down to think things over while
you catch your breath. After fifteen or twenty minutes,
release him from the stay and leave the area again.
So that you won't feel remorseful, reflect on the truth
that a great percentage of the barkers who are given
away to "good homes" end up in the kindly black box
with the sweet smell. Personally, I've always felt that
it's even better to spank children, even if they "cry
out," than to "put them to sleep."
You might have a long wait on that comfortable porch
before your dog starts broadcasting again. When he
does, let your long range bellow tie the consequent
correction to his first sound and repeat the
spanking, if anything emphasizing it a bit more.
It might be necessary to spend a Saturday or another
day off so that you'll have time to follow through
sufficiently. When you have a full day, you will be able
to convince him each yelp will have a bad
consequence, and the consistency will make your job
easier. If he gets away with his concert part of the
time, he'll be apt to gamble on your inconsistency.
After a half dozen corrections, "the reason and the
correction" will be tied in close enough association so
that you can move in on him without the preliminary
bellowing of "out." From then on, it's just a case of
laying for the dog and supplying enough bad
consequences of his noise so he'll no longer feel like gambling.
If there has been a long history of barking and whining,
it sometimes requires a lot of work to make a dog be
quiet when you're not around, so give the above
method an honest try before you presume your dog
requires a more severe correction.
"Housebreaking Problems":
Occasionally, there is a pup who seems determined to
relieve himself inside the house, regardless of how
often he has the opportunity to go outside. This dog
may require punishment. Make certain he is equipped
with a collar and piece of line so he can't avoid correction.
When you discover a mess, move in fast, take him to
the place of his error, and hold his head close enough
so that he associates his error with the punishment.
Punish him by spanking him with a light strap or
switch. Either one is better than a folded newspaper.
It is important to your future relationship that you do
not rush at him and start swinging before you get hold of him.
When he's been spanked, take him outside. Chances
are, if you are careful in your feeding and close
observation, you will not have to do much punishing.
Be consistent in your handling. To have a pup almost
house-broken and then force him to commit an error by
not providing an opportunity to go outside is very
unfair. Careful planning will make your job easier.
The same general techniques of housebreaking apply
to grown dogs that are inexperienced in the house.
For the grown dog who was reliable in the house and
then backslides, the method of correction differs
somewhat. In this group of "backsliders" we have the
"revenge piddler." This dog protests being alone by
messing on the floor and often in the middle of a bed.
The first step of correction is to confine the dog
closely in a part of the house when you go away, so
that he is constantly reminded of his obligation. The
fact that he once was reliable in the house is proof
that the dog knows right from wrong, and it leaves you
no other course than to punish him sufficiently to
convince him that the satisfaction of his wrongdoing is
not worth the consequences
Jerry Howe
Sorry, but you're a lying dog abusing Thug. Shove it. Jerry.
Jerry Howe
You mean credentials like these bums:
"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog I Do Not Believe There
Is A Single Circumstance Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is Anything
But Destructive" amy "Get A 30"- 40" Stick. CHUCK IT Under ITS
Chin With That Ever Ready Right Hand," dahl.
"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap," professora gingold.
"Nor did any attempts at verbal distraction work; she was
*determined* that she was going to yank the leash out of my hand
and bolt down the trail after other dogs.
When it was obvious that she had NO intention of paying any
attention to anything but the other dogs (and that I was in danger of
having my arm dislocated <G>), I didn't even think about it; I
dropped the leash, threw my right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
grabbed her opposite foot with my left hand, rolled her on her side,
leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and nipped her ear (not particularly
hard- I wasn't trying to *hurt* her, just get her attention!).
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Cathy Sullivan
Cathy Sullivan
news:gW2w7.20031$WX5.5...@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com...
Oh, I see. Because she is accused by an insane person like you to be a dog
abusing thug, then you get to use copyright material from her? What kind of
idiotic crap is that? Do you know ANYTHING jerry? Apparently NOT.
And I'm sure she's just SO offended with your "Shove it." remark - wow are
you clever.
Cathy Sullivan
>
> "Cathy Sullivan" <csul...@network.net> wrote in message
> news:ts0tfnq...@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> > > You really ought to come to my house and see all five (or six or
> seven,
> > > when I have a boarder or two) of my animals getting along just fine-
> you
> > > might actually learn something REAL about dogs.
> >
> > Don't get your hopes up. Jerry doesn't learn much of anything except
> > learning to make up lies about people
>
> "I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog I Do Not Believe There
> Is A Single Circumstance Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is Anything
> But Destructive" amy "Get A 30"- 40" Stick. CHUCK IT Under ITS
> Chin With That Ever Ready Right Hand," dahl.
What does this garbage have to do with my statement??? Can't you post for
yourself without quoting a bunch of junk??
Get a search party and find a brain you imbecile.
<snipping garbage>
-
Contrary to what Jerry has mentioned, I am not that ignorant about animal
behaviour. Just like Jerry, I also have JRT. Not one but two. Yes, the so
called original terrier that Jerry also has. I pride myself in training my 2
JRTs well, to the point of sharing toys and eating from the same bowl and
none of them are fixed. Am I over-reacting? I very much doubt so. My main
concern was that the little terrier puppy may really have a temperament
problem inherent in her genes, not just a behaviour exhibited due to the
situation, which I believe, given a firm hand and love, could be fixed. My
objective in posting was to seek some professional help, and hopefully from
someone that has the same experience to talk about how he had coped. And
definitely someone that also has a Wire Fox Terrier Female, to be precise.
Just as it is most presumptuous for Jerry to assume what he had about me or
my lack of inexperience, it is just as sinfully presumptuous to assume that
all terriers are the same, just because they are terriers.
Louis
Jerry Howe
"-" <lw...@pacific.net.sg> wrote in message
news:9pqs39$rj4$1...@newton.pacific.net.sg...
> It may have been my fault not to tell you guys more abt my
> household. Contrary to what Jerry has mentioned,
I don't recall as I was talking to you, Louis. All I've had to say to
you was:
"Hello Louie,
Here's the latest unfinished edition of my manual. Follow all of the
exercises in part one and you'll be all set in a couple days. Ask me
if you need help. Jerry."
Got a problem for that?
> I am not that ignorant about animal behaviour.
I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to our friends...
> Just like Jerry, I also have JRT. Not one but two. Yes, the so
> called original terrier that Jerry also has.
My breeds are Eng. Mastiffs and Danes, and I've got some sheps and rotts
and dobes too. I've trained dozens of Fox Terriers too, I've trained
dogs professionally for almost forty years, specializing in temperament
and behaivor problems and protection.
A dog is a dog. PERIOD.
> I pride myself in training my 2JRTs well, to the point of sharing toys
> and eating from the same bowl and none of them are fixed.
Excellent.
> Am I over-reacting? I very much doubt so.
Nope, I'm in agreement with you that you don't want to sit back and
watch this get out of control, and yet you can't intervene physically
without making things worse. I've got the appropriate methods you need
to change her behaivor without making things worse.
> My main concern was that the little terrier puppy may really have a
> temperament problem inherent in her genes,
WHOA! Don't be worrying about genes, that's the excuse our "experts" use
to tell you your dog can't be trained.
> not just a behaviour exhibited due to the situation,
It's the o'l chikin or the egg thing again. Don't worry about it, real
experts condition behaviors and then we don't have to worry about why
does the dog do something we don't like, cause if we train the dog
properly he's going to do everything exactly as we ask. But you gotta
know HOWE, it's not LUCK.
That's why our "experts" are in a funk. They don't have effective
methods so they hurt dogs and and call themselves experts. I've proven
they're dog abusers. Then when they deny what they do, they become
liars. What would one expect from a dog abuser, anyHOWE???
> which I believe, given a firm hand and love, could be fixed.
Yes, but let's take them free hands and tie them up a little so we still
have all ten fingers when your dog is fifteen years old...
> My objective in posting was to seek some professional help,
I've got the fastest, best, and most comprehensive methods anywhere and
they're available for FREE in my FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method
manual.
> and hopefully from someone that has the same experience to talk
> about how he had coped.
You want our experts who've got the same problems to tell you they
crated and avoided problems because they didn't know what to do, and if
the dog was aggressive they killed it for their own good. That's what a
lot of people come here looking for, an EZ out from under a dog that
scares them. They don't like me not giving them the option of just
killing a dog to be fair, because my methods work. And that's why our
Thugs are disturbed. They're afraid not to hurt dogs, and they're big
enough to kill an aggressive dog when he needs it, when they're scared
of trying to hurt him anymoore.
> And definitely someone that also has a Wire Fox Terrier Female, to
> be precise.
I've trained lots of female wft's, some of them what you'd call
hyperactive, old ones, young ones. No problem. A dog is a dog.
> Just as it is most presumptuous for Jerry to assume what he had
> about me or my lack of inexperience,
I didn't ever address you, except to offer you my manual.
> it is just as sinfully presumptuous to assume that
> all terriers are the same, just because they are terriers.
Right. Terriers are dogs. A dog is a dog. It's foolish to presume the
scientific and psychological methods I use and teach are going to bend
to the individual, because that would invalidate the definition of
scientific conditioning techniques.
> Louis
If you follow the instructions and do the exercises in my FREE Wits' End
Dog Training Method manual, your dogs will naturally want to do
everything you ask, because that's the nature of the beast.
"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog I Do Not Believe There
Is A Single Circumstance Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is Anything
But Destructive" amy "Get A 30"- 40" Stick. CHUCK IT Under ITS
Chin With That Ever Ready Right Hand," dahl.
"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap," professora gingold.
Figure it out, Louie. If my method choked dogs, and if my machine
inflicted ultra high frequency pain, my pals here would make me a
millionaire. j;~}
misty" <Mom...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:6946-3B6...@storefull-233.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring. Two dogs,
> two collars We now have one dog and no collars.
> Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not want to come back
> in the yard and would run for days. The last time, Peach didn't
> come back home.
> I used the Wit's End Training Manual to learn how to train my dog.
> She is now border trained. A few minutes each day reinforces
> her desire to stay in the yard. She no longer runs out into the
> road, I can stop her from chasing cats and she no longer cringes
> when we walk around the yard.
> I can not say loud or long enough how much I hate the e-fence and
> its collars. If you can't get a regular fence then you need to
> train your dog. I will never rely on an electronic collar to keep my
> dog in our yard again. The price was too high:-(
> ~misty
<"Terri"@cyberhighway
Rober Crim writes:
>Terri
Hello People,
"Charlie Wilkes" <charlie...@easynews.com> wrote in message
news:pjaootcg8dgrptuu9...@4ax.com...
> I read up on rotties, pitbulls, etc., and quite a bit of the
> literature suggested I needed to assert my dominance and "make
> the dog earn everything it gets." I tried this once or twice, just by
> taking a stern tone of voice, and the results were terrible. The pup
> got scared and just wanted to stay away from me.
> That's why I support Jerry Howe and his FREE Wits' End Dog
> Training
> manual -- that and the fact that Jerry is an all-around great guy.
> The core takeaway I got from Jerry's manual is this: make yourself
> the center of your puppy's world -- his personal Lord Jesus. Never
> give him a reason to fear you or think you're angry. Love the heck
> out of him, and you'll end up with a great dog.
> This has truly worked with my puppy. She'll do anything I want her
> to, if she understands, because she trusts me 100 percent, and
> nothing is more important in her world than her relationship with
> me.
> Charlie
Hi Jerry,
Elaine
Yours, Jerry.
Thanks, Elaine,
-Jerry Howe-
Jerry Howe
> How about credentials like ANYTHING?
> > You mean credentials like these bums:
oh. credentials. Hmm, i ain't got nun. do you suppose DOG TRAINING
INFORMATION, like solutions to every behavior problem you can find, will
be sufficient?
The shade tree I grew up training dogs under didn't give no certificates
or spellin rithmetic an grandmas got noting to do with training dogs,
she just helped me with my spilling and encouraged me to do the manual
so you could learn to train your dogs as easily and successfully as my
students do.
Just ask if you need help.
Here's a few who'll tell you exactly what's up:
misty" <Mom...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:6946-3B6...@storefull-233.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring. Two dogs,
> two collars We now have one dog and no collars.
> Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not want to come back
> in the yard and would run for days. The last time, Peach didn't
> come back home.
> I used the Wit's End Training Manual to learn how to train my dog.
> She is now border trained. A few minutes each day reinforces
> her desire to stay in the yard. She no longer runs out into the
> road, I can stop her from chasing cats and she no longer cringes
> when we walk around the yard.
> I can not say loud or long enough how much I hate the e-fence and
> its collars. If you can't get a regular fence then you need to
> train your dog. I will never rely on an electronic collar to keep my
> dog in our yard again. The price was too high:-(
> ~misty
<"Terri"@cyberhighway
Rober Crim writes:
>Terri
Hello People,
"Charlie Wilkes" <charlie...@easynews.com> wrote in message
news:pjaootcg8dgrptuu9...@4ax.com...
> I read up on rotties, pitbulls, etc., and quite a bit of the
> literature suggested I needed to assert my dominance and "make
> the dog earn everything it gets." I tried this once or twice, just by
> taking a stern tone of voice, and the results were terrible. The pup
> got scared and just wanted to stay away from me.
> That's why I support Jerry Howe and his FREE Wits' End Dog
> Training
> manual -- that and the fact that Jerry is an all-around great guy.
> The core takeaway I got from Jerry's manual is this: make yourself
> the center of your puppy's world -- his personal Lord Jesus. Never
> give him a reason to fear you or think you're angry. Love the heck
> out of him, and you'll end up with a great dog.
> This has truly worked with my puppy. She'll do anything I want her
> to, if she understands, because she trusts me 100 percent, and
> nothing is more important in her world than her relationship with
> me.
> Charlie
Hi Jerry,
Elaine
Yours, Jerry.
Thanks, Elaine,
-Jerry Howe-
sionnach
Louis wrote:
>Just like Jerry, I also have JRT. Not one but two. Yes, the so
> called original terrier that Jerry also has.
Um, Louis? You REALLY need to learn how to understand quoting. USENET. See
those little marks > in front of your sentence, which I'm quoting?? Go back
and look again- you'll see those same marks in front of the comments about
the JRT.
Jerry does *not* have a JRT. Jerry does not own ANY dogs, as a matter of
fact. He's top-quoting MY writing, then adding his own gobbledegook.
>My main
>concern was that the little terrier puppy may really have a temperament
>problem inherent in her genes,
Unfortunately, that's entirely possible- especially since you say you don't
think the breeder was a good one. :-(
>My objective in posting was to seek some professional help,
Um, if you want *professional* help, you usually need to pay for it. In
here, what you'll get is advice- some of it good, some of it bad- but you
won't get "professional help", though some of us are professional dog
trainers.
If you want a "professional" assessment of your pup, you need to have
someone IN PERSON. Nobody here can really diagnose things, because we aren't
there to see them- we can only make educated guesses, based on what
information you give.
>And
>definitely someone that also has a Wire Fox Terrier Female, to be precise.
Have you looked to see if there are any e-mail groups specific to Fox
Terriers? There are groups for lots of breeds- check out the Yahoo groups.
>it is just as sinfully presumptuous to assume that
>all terriers are the same, just because they are terriers.
Quite true. JRTs, for example, are allegedly dog-aggressive and unsafe
with cats, but mine is best buddies with my Siamese. She also gets along
fine with most other dogs.
Jerry Howe
No cathy, sionnach is offended because I quoted her throwing down and
biting a dog on his ear in a fit of rage, and then turing it around into
a playful exchange. Your pals like to hurt and intimidate dogs and lie
about it when I tell them abusing dogs is dangerous and gets people hurt
and dogs DEAD.
"Nor did any
attempts at verbal distraction work; she was *determined* that she
was going to yank the leash out of my hand and bolt down the trail
after other dogs.
When it was obvious that she had NO intention of paying any
attention to anything but the other dogs (and that I was in danger of
having my arm dislocated <G>), I didn't even think about it; I
dropped the leash, threw my right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
grabbed her opposite foot with my left hand, rolled her on her side,
leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and nipped her ear (not particularly
hard- I wasn't trying to *hurt* her, just get her attention!).
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
away please. j:~}
"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog I Do Not Believe There
Is A Single Circumstance Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is Anything
But Destructive" amy "Get A 30"- 40" Stick. CHUCK IT Under ITS
Chin With That Ever Ready Right Hand," dahl.
"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap," professora gingold.
Hello People,
> Thank you
> Gg
PAIN/DEATH.
FUN/LIFE.
PAIN, DEATH.
FUN, LIFE.
OPTIONS: KILL, LIVE.
live or die?
CANDACE!!!~~~~ j;~}
Here's a couple posters who learned the hard way:
misty" <Mom...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:6946-3B6...@storefull-233.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring. Two dogs,
> two collars We now have one dog and no collars.
> Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not want to come back
> in the yard and would run for days. The last time, Peach didn't
> come back home.
> I used the Wit's End Training Manual to learn how to train my dog.
> She is now border trained. A few minutes each day reinforces
> her desire to stay in the yard. She no longer runs out into the
> road, I can stop her from chasing cats and she no longer cringes
> when we walk around the yard.
> I can not say loud or long enough how much I hate the e-fence
> and its collars. If you can't get a regular fence then you need to
> train your dog. I will never rely on an electronic collar to keep my
> dog in our yard again. The price was too high:-(
> ~misty
"Charlie Wilkes" <charlie...@easynews.com> wrote in message
news:pjaootcg8dgrptuu9...@4ax.com...
> I read up on rotties, pitbulls, etc., and quite a bit of the
> literature suggested I needed to assert my dominance and "make
> the dog earn everything it gets." I tried this once or twice, just by
> taking a stern tone of voice, and the results were terrible. The pup
> got scared and just wanted to stay away from me.
> That's why I support Jerry Howe and his FREE Wits' End Dog
> Training
> manual -- that and the fact that Jerry is an all-around great guy.
> The core takeaway I got from Jerry's manual is this: make yourself
> the center of your puppy's world -- his personal Lord Jesus. Never
> give him a reason to fear you or think you're angry. Love the heck
> out of him, and you'll end up with a great dog.
> This has truly worked with my puppy. She'll do anything I want
> her to, if she understands, because she trusts me 100 percent,
> and nothing is more important in her world than her relationship
> with me.
> Charlie
<"Terri"@cyberhighway
Rober Crim writes:
>Terri
Hello People,
Hi Jerry,
Jerry Howe
sheep he shouldn't be turned loose on cause he's not trained... melanie
does the same and you bums think that's training. You think shocking
dogs is fine... despite the dead dogs and accidents you've seen because
of shocking them, like you dog abusing pal lia and Cubbe snapping at the
child when they stepped into the shock field. What's blackman got to say
about that, and the little dead dog in "interested in hearing" your pal
janet boss murdered... Get outta here. Jerry.
<TO...@dog-play.com> wrote in message
news:9pqdnp$37c$2...@nntp1.ba.best.com...
Jerry Howe
dog abusers, and that's why you're mad at me... you like hurting dogs
because it makes you feel good.
"Cathy Sullivan" <csul...@network.net> wrote in message
news:ts1idq9...@corp.supernews.com...
Jerry Howe
pronged spiked pinch choke collars and shock them and beat your dog in
the face to teach him sheep herding and you couldn't train your own dog
for five years not to pull on leash... bye! j;~}
<TO...@dog-play.com> wrote in message
news:9poelq$2rrh$1...@nntp1.ba.best.com...
> On Sat, 6 Oct 2001 13:20:27 +0800 - <lw...@pacific.net.sg> whittled
these words:
> > Hi, I have recently gotten myself a female 7 weeks old Wire Fox
Terrier
> > puppy.
>
> Have you owned any of the terrier breeds before?
>
> > She looks very sweet. However, she is definitely very aggressive. I
> > fed her together with my friend's shih tzu puppy from the same bowl
and she
> > started growling.
>
> Normal for the breed. If this is not the kind of dog you want now is
the
> time to rehome the puppy.
>
> > The growling grew louder when the shih tzu did not retreat
> > and continued to eat from the same bowl. And finally, she snapped
the shih
> > tzu in the muzzle and refused to let go despite the puppy's cry. I
was very
> > appalled.
>
> Perhaps this is not the right breed for you. Part of owning terriers
is
> not to put them in that kind of position. The other part is stepping
in
> and preventing problems before they get that far.
>
>
> > She also growled when I put my hand near the bowl. I know Fox
> > Terriers can be aggressive but never expect her to be so aggressive
at just
> > 7 weeks old!
>
> She is a baby saying NO! NO! NO! when you threatend what she wants.
Part
> of owning terriers is to understand that it is normal and teach the
puppy
> to feel comfortable with that kind of interference.
>
> > I wanted to make sure and at the next meal I fed her with the
> > bigger dogs (much bigger than her)around. When they crowded round
her, she
> > started growling again. Is this a normal protective behaviour?
>
>
> No, it is normal defensive behavior.
>
> > I have also
> > realised in the past 2 days, that she is not very sociable with
dogs.
>
> Did you expect her to be sociable with dogs? Why? They are generally
> sociable with people, but not with dogs. AS for people, it can take a
> even a puppy time to warm up especially if they are in an environment
> full of anxiety producing events - like getting surrounded by a pack
of
> big dogs, another pup trying to steal dinner, and this strange human
now
> threatening dinner.
>
> > She
> > does not like to play with them nor get close to them. But she is
not
> > fearless. Tail is always up and she explores the house on her own.
Do I
> > really have a problematic dog? What should I do?
>
> From the breed standard "The Terrier should be alert, quick of
movement,
> keen of expression, on the tip-toe of expectation at the slightest
> provocation."
>
> I think you have taken on a dog that is not a comfortable fit for you.
>
> You might disagree and think is it the puppy that is over-the-top.
Maybe.
> It is possible. But the fact that you twice put the puppy into a
position
> the was inapproriate for a terrier (competition for food) suggests
that
> the problem is more in your expectations for dogs than this puppy.
>
> If you think this is a criticism it is not. Or at least it is not
> intended that way. Each of us has different dogs that we like and
> dislike, and different behaviors that make us comfortable or
> uncomfortable. A terrier is always going to be feisty and pugnacious.
> That character is something that most terrier owners cherish. They
> can raise the pups to be good companions because the handle situations
> such as you describe in a number of ways. First they try to avoid
putting
> the dog in a situation. Second they know that the behavior comes from
> anxiety that the dog is going to lose a resource. So they teach the
dog
> by trading, and distraction and a variety of other methods that very
often
> giving up what one has results in getting something even better.
>
>
> Did the breeder make you feel comfortable about calling and asking
> questions? If the answer is "yes" that is a good sign. If the answer
is
> "no" - well take a look at the contract and see if you have a
responsible
> breeder, one who will take the puppy back, or help you through this.
With
> your level of uncertainty I would not keep the puppy unless you get
> individual guidence and help.
>
> Diane Blackman
> http://www.dog-play.com http://www.dog-play.com/TOTE.html
> You can give a person facts, but you can't make them think.
> http://www.dissension.com/logic/logic.html
Jerry Howe
in half lengthwise and fill it with hot sauce to break their dogs of
eating poo, and to put msg, the flavor enhancer in their food instead of
bromaline or pappaine, the digestive enzyms.
You beat your dog in the face with a stick to train him for sheep
because he's not ready to be loosed on them yet, so you're abusing both
sheep and dogs.
You use a pronged spiked pinch choke collar, and you encourage people to
use shock collars if that's what they LIKE, despite numerous tradgedies
we've seen here due to them.
And you're almost psychotic in this response to a minor problem that
will go away with a few minutes of using the techniques taught in my
FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method manual. And you know it... Bye! j;~}
"Diane Blackman" <blac...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:1kSv7.3014$no1....@typhoon.sonic.net...
>
> "-" <lw...@pacific.net.sg> wrote in message
> news:9pood8$l6e$1...@newton.pacific.net.sg...
> > Hi
> >
> > Thanks for your reply to my posting.
> >
> > I do own 2 Jack Russell Terriers myself at the moment but they are
far
> from
> > being aggressive. In fact, other than bolting and whining after cats
and
> > other dogs in a park, they are very sweet natured. They love to play
and
> > they even share food together from the same bowl. When they meet
other
> dogs
> > outside, they would play together and readily accepts any people or
dog
> into
> > the house. I have known terriers to be playful and always ready for
a
> game.
> >
> > As such, this little puppy's aloofness is a little different from
what I
> had
> > expected. She is definitely okay with people but I am hoping that by
> > socializing her early with other dogs, she would learn to accept
them as
> > members in the same household at least. I still find it a little
over the
> > top that a puppy is not playing when it should be...
> >
>
> Hmmm, Ok, well let's just assume that the pup is over the top. Now
what?
> I'd bet you already have a pretty good idea of the challenge you face.
> Basic
> temperament issues really can't be changed by training. You can
moderate
> them (make them less intense) and you can manage the dog to make
prevent
> the worst problems from coming out. As young as this pup is and again
> assuming
> that the behavior is over the top, one has to wonder whether there is
a
> physical
> cause including brain function disorder. I'm guessing you would have
a hard
> time finding a behaviorist with the training and education to evaluate
the
> puppy?
> If that is the case then you are left with a decision only you can
make.
> Are you
> willing and able to manage a full grown dog of this temerament?
>
> I'd search for copies of some of John Rogerson's books on aggression.
> They are out of print but try e-bay or the various sites that sell
used
> books.
> I'm guessing that you can handle acadmeic level texts so if you can't
find a
> behaviorist to see the dog you still might get some good ideas on
management
> and
> behavior modification by looking at some of the texts in
> http://www.dogwise.com e.g Canine Behavior: A Guide for Veterinarians
>
> Without a medical evaluation and diagnosis followed by a behaviorial
> evaluation
> it is awfully hard to predict what it will take in terms of commitment
and
> effort
> to end up with a nice pet. It could be as simple as taking a new
approach
> to
> teaching and interacting with the puppy, or it may rquire the
assistence of
> medication. I don't envy the decision making you are facing because
no one
> can see what you see and thus you pretty much have to go with your
guts.
>
> Diane Blackman
>
>
Mike
(And stop posting all that crap after your reply - no one reads it).
"Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:0w8w7.21844$WX5.6...@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com...
Mike
> biting a dog on his ear in a fit of rage, and then turing it around into
> a playful exchange. Your pals like to hurt and intimidate dogs and lie
> about it when I tell them abusing dogs is dangerous and gets people hurt
> and dogs DEAD.
Oh bullshit - get your facts straight. She rolled the dog on it's side for a
few seconds. But you are desperate to make a HUGE deal out of stupid shit.
Here, I'll fuel you: I flicked (with my finger) my dog on the butt when he
stuck his nose on our table.
There ya go - bash away.
And who the hell are my pals you criminal you? Most of us haven't commited
serious crimes...yup, I know things :)
sionnach
"Jerry Howe wrote:
> No cathy, sionnach is offended
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!! I'm not offended, dearie; not at all. :-) I find it funny
that you're giving us ammunition to get you kicked off the Internet again,
that's all. I have served you legal notice that what you are quoting is my
copyrighted material, and that you do not have my permission to keep
reposting it.
>because I quoted her throwing down and
> biting a dog on his ear in a fit of rage,
What's even funnier is that my own quoted words prove that you're lying,
since you accurately quote me as saying that I rolled her on her side for a
moment, and that I nipped her. Rolling is not throwing, and nipping is not
biting- I don't think a human CAN do more than nip a dog, actually, since we
don't have the right sort of teeth. <G>
And if you really think I can "throw" a dog that's nearly as big as I am,
you're hallucinating. :-D
>and then turing it around into
>a playful exchange.
Never said that, dear. I said quite clearly that what I did was basically
what an adult dog would do to an obnoxious puppy. What I DID say was that
if I roll her NOW, it's playful. This particular dog is very very physical
and exuberant, and likes to roughhouse. She and her buddies roll and
play-bite each other WAY harder than I did- they body slam each other, knock
each other down, and drag each other up and down by the face; most Labs have
an incredibly rough style of play. You *really* ought to spend some time
around REAL dogs, dear- you might actually learn something.
And as I've said many a time, you're more than welcome to come to Maryland
and watch me with her.
Jerry Howe
"Mike" <mi...@noneofyourbiz.com> wrote in message
news:ts281ea...@corp.supernews.com...
Hello mikey,
Here's a couple of our self appointed experts who need to hurt dogs:
"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog I Do Not Believe There
Is A Single Circumstance Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is Anything
But Destructive" amy "Get A 30"- 40" Stick. CHUCK IT Under ITS
Chin With That Ever Ready Right Hand," dahl.
"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap," professora gingold.
And from terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure."
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem Quite Harsh And
Cause You To Cringe. This Is A Normal Reaction The First Few
Times It Happens, But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."
And here's a few of my students:
> Charlie
> ~misty
Margaret Hoffman writes to a news group:
I do have a Doggy Do Right and have had it for
about one year. It truly does work - at least on my Dobe,
Chelsea. Chelsea was the unhappy recipient of several failed
attempts at obedience training, both in a "class" environment
and with a personal trainer. She is very high spirited and
strong and, unfortunately, spoiled, since we are an older
couple who doted on our dog. We were lucky enough to find Jerry
Howe and to not only buy a Doggy Do Right, but to also have him
personally work with Chelsea.
His methods are wonderful and effective. Chelsea is not a dog
that you will bully, and I wouldn't dream of hurting her. After
Jerry spent time with her, she no longer jumped on furniture,
ate food off the counter, pulled me incessantly on the leash.
She is calmer and we are all happier. Well, it is a very long
story and I won't bore you with all the details, but suffice it
to say that Jerry Howe saved the day for our dog and for us.
Marge Hoffman
<"Terri"@cyberhighway
Rober Crim writes:
>Terri
Dear Jerry-
I just wanted to let you know how wonderful your Doggy Do
Right product is. I was skeptical at first, but have been
tremendously pleased.
As you know, we had a neighbor's dog that was extremely
bothersome, at times barking loudly for 3 hours straight.
Within a few days, the barking decreased, and now it is just
the occasional bark. This dog lives approximately 500 feet
away, and even at that distance, the machine has done wonders.
You were always available and patient to answer my
questions, and now I can be in my own home without going
nuts from the barking. As an added pleasure, all the other
minor barking nuisances in the neighborhood have stopped
as well.
Quiet is wonderful! Thank you.
Pam Graves, Longwood, FL
Elaine McClung, President of Pet Rescue,
Animal Commisioner,
Brevard County, FL writes: Sep 9,2000
Thanks, Elaine
Hi Jerry,
I wrote to you a week or so ago about the unit. I have since
borrowed one from Elaine Mc Clung. She speaks very
highly of it.
So, I brought it home and plugged it in. Of course, I
wanted it to come on, all the barking stop, and have every
one immediately fall to the floor in little comas for a few
hours. Well, after I got all 27 of them to be quiet, still no
comas. But, it had only been 36 seconds at that point. So,
I gave it a little longer. Still no comas. Was this really
going to work? I mean, I do have an unusual situation.
So, by bedtime, a few hours later. I started to notice just
how many were asleep already - with their feet in the air! I
started to have hope. During the night, all was calm. In the
morning when I got up, only a few of them WALKED quietly
to the door to go out. Not the usual evacuation.
I had the unit from Sunday afternoon until Tuesday
Morning. I was certainly pleased with the night effect. I
wasn't so sure about the amount of the day time effect.
Until I took it back. Within half an hour, the monsters had
resurfaced. I wondered if I could break into Elaine's house
and if she would notice :)
I know another person who does dog rescue. She rescues
Beagles. She has 23 in an 1100 square foot house. God
bless her. She is interested to see if it will work for her. I
also spoke to someone else who does cat rescue, and
she is interested. The cat rescue people have monthly
meetings. Maybe Elaine could give a word or two about it.
So, if there are any words of advice you can send my way
about the best way to use it in my case, I would appreciate
it. I of course wanted to keep it on the highest setting, but
don't know if that is advised, even with my situation of so
many new ones coming and (too few) going.
Also, how I and others can go about getting one, etc. I
think the vets should have the info in their offices. It must
help dogs with separation anxiety. My vet practices
homeopathic as well as traditional medicine, so I
would think it would be right up her alley.
Thank you.
Desiree M Webber
A New Leash On Life
====================
Doggy Do Right (And Kitty Will Too) Product Information
Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too) costs $99.95
plus $7.50 S&H total $107.45 in US, other countries
vary, and is 100% money back satisfaction guaranteed
forever (including paid return shipping).
Shipping at this time will be immediate via UPS. You can order on
our secure order page on the net at http://www.doggydoright.com ,
by phone, or US Post. Visa, MasterCard, Personal, and electronic
checks are accepted.
The simplest way to think of Doggy Do Right (and Kitty
Will Too) is state conditioned learning, best describes
how it works. The BIOSOUND program creates a state of
calm and relaxation which the dog associates with the
stressor. When the stressor comes about, the dog reflexes
his thoughts to the state of calm, thus cancelling anxiety.
The BIOSOUND Scientific Integrator, t.m. Doggy Do
Right (and Kitty Will Too), is a high-frequency psycho
acoustic behavior modification device, a copyright
sound program, in some regards, like a Zen meditation
or Gregorian Chant. BIOSOUND Scientific's technology is
based on proven scientific and psychological principles (the
Frequency Following Response to facilitate brain wave
entrainment, Pavlovian conditioning and de-conditioning,
Neuro Linguistic Programming techniques like matching,
pacing, anchoring, and flooding, the Relaxation Response,
and accelerated learning techniques similar to those of Dr.
Lozanov and the Tomatis effect.
Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too) employs complex
waveforms that dogs andk cats love and cannot resist listening
to, and people cannot hear. Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too)'s
soothing waveforms at first pace, and are soon paced by the
parasympathetic nervous system, entraining the brain to
follow the waveforms.
BIOSOUND Scientific's technology changes behavior by
stimulating information brain waveforms on the cerebral
cortex, hollographically. Relaxation, entrainment, and the
release of brain hormones override a situation or stimulus
previously producing anxiety. In other words, we condition
new, good information brain wave patterns in association
with stressors. Subsequent introduction of such a
conditioned stimulus causes the memory of those stressors
to be flooded out with new, good information about a given
stimulus.
To simplify; we persuade our subject to listen to Doggy
Do Right (and Kitty Will Too) (flip the switch), and fall
into an extremely relaxed state (wait 2-5 min.). Present the
stimulus, such as thunder, doorbell, etc. BIOSOUND
Scientific's technology constantly reassures the subject that
everything is O.K., and the stimulus is now associated with calm
acceptance. Future simulation will consequently
stimulate thoughts of calm and well being, thus overriding or
flooding the stimulus, which would normally institute a
fight or flight reaction.
Doggy Do Right (And Kitty Will Too) is a complex sine
wave broadcast through a tuned piezo transducer, at
about 34k, of about 100db, and broadcasts a range of
500+ feet. Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too) doesn't
need to be nearby the animals or to be loud, because it's
ultrasonic BIOSOUND program doesn't scream obcenities
at them, we don't NEED a machine to do THAT.
Dimensions are 4"x5"x1", and under two pounds including
the standard wall transformer. The unit is not waterproof at
this time, but they live well outside if covered in a plastic
wrap.
The BIOSOUND Scientific Elves offer a 25% discount for
shelter and rescue folks. Because they know many
rescue people work on their own, this extends to anyone
helping critters, regardless of their affiliation with a bona-
fide, tax exempt organization.
Discounted sales must be paid for by check or money
order accompanied with a purchase request on the
organization letterhead (if possible), through the
US Post. The cost of credit card processing would
put the BIOSOUND Scientific Elves into the red on
such orders.
The rescue and shelter discounted price is $82.45
(including FL sales tax is $88.90). Make the check or
M.O. payable to BIOSOUND Scientific, at the address
below. Send me your address by email or on the phone
and the Elves will ship a.s.a.p.
The Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too) machine will
rehabilitate most behavior problems on it's own, but
proper handling and training is important for your dog,
too.
That's why I've got the free Wits' End Dog Training
Method manual available on my site, it's not a DDR
sales pitch, it's just excellent dog training info. You're
welcome to ask for as much additional help with the
text or techniques as you may want. The Wits' End Dog
Training Method manual has nothing to do with DDR
(&KWT), except it's trained a lot of dogs and cost the
BIOSOUND Scientific Elves a few sales.
Thank you for your inquiry,
Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
BIOSOUND Scientific
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St
Orlando, FL 32805
Fax: (208)460-4270
Phone: 1-407-425-5092
Phone: 1-888-BIOSOUND (1-888-246-7686)
http://www.doggydoright.com
Jerry Howe
lunging on lead and hurting you... Like you said the first time. Funny
you're worried about someone quoting your own words... j;~}
"sionnach" <rhyf...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:9pr7hk$k19b3$1...@ID-45033.news.dfncis.de...
sionnach
"Jerry Howe" wrote:
> You attacked and bit the dog on the ear in a fit of rage because he was
> lunging on lead and hurting you... Like you said the first time. Funny
> you're worried about someone quoting your own words... j;~}
Getting senile, are you? You're repeating yourself, dear. :-D
Jerry Howe
"sionnach" <rhyf...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:9pr4qo$jo94n$1...@ID-45033.news.dfncis.de...
> Louis wrote:
> >Just like Jerry, I also have JRT. Not one but two. Yes, the so
> > called original terrier that Jerry also has.
> Um, Louis?
Um, sinovabitch?
> You REALLY need to learn how to understand quoting.
You REALLY need to learn HOWE to spell HOWE. And HOWE to let your quotes
lay where they fall.
> USENET.
Where every thing is archived forever.
> See
SEE?
> those little marks > in front of your sentence, which I'm quoting??
No. See them little black and white marks underneath your name and date
and time. Every thing you write is indellibly etched on the WWW.
> Go back and look again- you'll see those same marks in front of
> the comments about the JRT.
Go back and look again- you'll see those little black and white marks
under your name and date and time tell us your story of being hurt and
abused by and 8 month old lab puppy lunging on leash, and you lost your
temper with him and assaulted, battered, and comitted mayhem on by means
of biting his ears in an effort to get even.
> Jerry does *not* have a JRT.
I've trained LOTS of jrt. I specialize in temperament and behavior
probelms, mostly in gian breed dogs, but I've discovered that the non
violent methods I rely on to stay alive training aggressive dogs much
larger than me work just as effectively as they do on a little 85 pound
labradoradog or a eight pound jrt.
> Jerry does not own ANY dogs, as a matter of fact.
None that I jerk and choke or chin cuff or scruff shake or beat with
sticks or throw into an alpha roll and growl into their throats and bite
them on thier ears. As you did in the thread "growling westie."
> He's top-quoting MY writing, then adding his own gobbledegook.
Was that your quote you're threatening me with copyright violation
because your own words embarrass you to death?
> >My main concern was that the little terrier puppy may really have
> > a temperament problem inherent in her genes,
sinofabitch knows all about genetics, as do the rest of our "experts"
who know when a dog needs to be killed to train out of temperament or
behavior problems.
> Unfortunately, that's entirely possible- especially since you say
> you don't think the breeder was a good one. :-(
Of course a dog abusing lying Thug is going to blame the breed because
their training methods won't work on this kind of critter.
> >My objective in posting was to seek some professional help,
You got it, good buddy. Our pal sinofabitch is a professional dog
walker. She walks three or four dogs once or twice a day. She attacked
an 8 month old lab for lunging while on leash. Threw him to the ground,
growled in his throat, and bit his ear.
> Um, if you want *professional* help, you usually need to pay for
> it.
Your daddy teach you that?
> In here, what you'll get is advice- some of it good, some of it bad-
> but you won't get "professional help",
That's because you don't want him to know that I've got the information
he needs, because that would prove you to be a lying, dog abusing Thug.
> though some of us are professional dog trainers.
Let's not start that again. Your pals who call themselves "experts" are
the bums who sell crates, pronged pinch spiked choke and shock collars
and tell us to jerk dogs around to make them behave in the weekly
lessons they sell for months on end. And if their training fails,
they've got their very own kill shelter you can use to resolve the
training probelm. See your pal janet's thread "interested in hearing"
where she overlooked two shock containment devices that made the dog
aggressive, and she told them to HURT and crate their dog to make IT
friendly, and to KILL their dog to be FAIR.
> If you want a "professional" assessment of your pup, you need to >
have someone IN PERSON.
Like your pal janet or boob maida who sent our carol levie to his
competition so she wouldn't come back here with her dog snapping at her
because he told her to choke IT, as happend when she finished with the
"experts" he sent her to!!! BWWWAAHAHAHAAA!!!
> Nobody here can really diagnose things,
Not any of your lying dog abusing Thug pals. I can fix any dog behavior
problem in days, not months.
> because we aren't there to see them-
I don't need to see behavior problems because my methods obviate the
behavior probelms without having to pay them special concern.
> we can only make educated guesses, based on what
> information you give.
Like when you threw that lab to the ground and growled in his throat and
bit him on the ear...
> > And definitely someone that also has a Wire Fox Terrier Female,
> > to be precise.
> Have you looked to see if there are any e-mail groups specific to
> Fox Terriers?
You'll probably find our experts there too. They're all over the place.
> There are groups for lots of breeds- check out the Yahoo groups.
The breed of dog is not responsible for inappropriate behaviors, the
handling and training methods the owner is using are responsible for
the behaviors the dog is doing.
> >it is just as sinfully presumptuous to assume that
> >all terriers are the same, just because they are terriers.
A dog is a dog. Take it from me, that's my specialty.
> Quite true.
Says our lying, dog abusing Thug.
> JRTs, for example, are allegedly dog-aggressive and unsafe
> with cats,
Because their handlers are mishandling the dogs.
> but mine is best buddies with my Siamese.
Because you aren't much company, you hurt and offend her.
> She also gets along fine with most other dogs.
Even the kat is better company. Perhaps that's because she's
trustworthy?
"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog I Do Not Believe There
Is A Single Circumstance Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is Anything
But Destructive" amy "Get A 30"- 40" Stick. CHUCK IT Under ITS
Chin With That Ever Ready Right Hand," dahl.
"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap," professora gingold.
Seems we got two kinds of trainers.
One kind are the experts who approach every dog as an individual
and hurts and kills them individually, as necessary... and the other
kind like you and me and Marilyn and Patch and Canis55 who train
every individual the same way, using non violence and letting
everyone live through training someHOWE, without hurting nobody.
Let's weight that out... On one hand we got experts who hurt and kill
some dogs. On the other we got trainers who never hurt nobody and
train dogs successfully without pain and death. Hmmm. Let's work
that out? PAIN + DEATH, Vs FUN + LIFE.
PAIN/DEATH.
FUN/LIFE.
PAIN, DEATH.
FUN, LIFE.
OPTIONS: KILL, LIVE.
O.K. What's the choices again?
live or die?
CANDACE!!!~~~~ j;~}
Here's a couple posters who learned the hard way:
misty" <Mom...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:6946-3B6...@storefull-233.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> ~misty
> Charlie
<"Terri"@cyberhighway
Rober Crim writes:
>Terri
Hello People,
Robert Crim was a former Gang Of Thugs Member, and
hated me a much as the rest of our Thugs do. Robert was a
long time friend and prominent contributor to rpdb, till Jerry
came along and smartened him up. He learned the hard
way, and no longer posts to his former pals, because it is
just too painful knowing his pals would rather HURT and
KILL their dogs than to admit that JERRY is RIGHT.
Margaret Hoffman
Message 1 of 19
Doggy Do Right and Jerry Howe
I just recently looked at this newsgroup and I found it
incredible. I do have a Doggy Do Right and have had it for
about one year. It truly does work - at least on my Dobe,
Chelsea. Chelsea was the unhappy recipient of several failed
attempts at obedience training, both in a "class" environment
and with a personal trainer. She is very high spirited and
strong and, unfortunately, spoiled, since we are an older
couple who doted on our dog. We were lucky enough to find Jerry
Howe and to not only buy a Doggy Do Right, but to also have him
personally work with Chelsea.
His methods are wonderful and effective. Chelsea is not a dog
that you will bully, and I wouldn't dream of hurting her. After
Jerry spent time with her, she no longer jumped on furniture,
ate food off the counter, pulled me incessantly on the leash.
She is calmer and we are all happier. Well, it is a very long
story and I won't bore you with all the details, but suffice it
to say that Jerry Howe saved the day for our dog and for us.
Marge Hoffman. (REWARD PAID BY DW.)
Hi Jerry,
In case Mark does post to the list again I would like to say that I
do very much believe that DDR will help JR as I know it has helped
my dogs and cats. I have entirely too much to do, to worry about his
opinions or reward.
The only reason I was willing to apply for the reward was on your
behalf as I do think your product is a valuable tool in helping with
aggression and other behavior problems.
I am in Feral Cat Network (we spay and neuter approximately 100
feral cats a month), I am also a member of a local AKC dog
obedience club, member of a local AKC agility club, president of
Pet Rescue, board member of the Alliance for Care and Welfare of
Animals (on the board are: county commissioner, vet. rep., rep. from
AKC dog club, CFA cat club, assistant County manager, head of
animal control, director of two different shelters, etc.).
I listed these not to be on an ego trip but to let Mark know that I
am involved with animals and have very little time to play games
with him also I would not recommend your product if I did not
believe in it.
Please feel free to post this email as it has no copyright on it as
did Mark Shaw's last email to me.
Take care Jerry and don't let the Mark's of the world get you down.
Elaine
Thank you, Elaine. I have been trying to educate the mark's of this
world, with some occasional successes. I guess that's variable
reinforcement?
Yours, Jerry.
Elaine McClung, President of Pet Rescue writes: Sep 9,
2000
"I ordered from Jerry a long time ago.. He was helpful and
Thanks, Elaine,
Mike Brown
Welcome to my killfile.
sionnach <rhyf...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
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