Muttley's First Class (double entendre acknowledged)

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Paul E. Schoen

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Sep 13, 2006, 1:00:25 AM9/13/06
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Tonight I took Muttley to his first night of obedience training. I had
thought he would do better, but the prospect of 20 or so dogs and people,
and an array of irresistable smells, made him hard to control. After
struggling for a while with his "choker" chain collar, we tried a "pinch"
collar. He seemed to respond better with that, but still he was easily
distracted. I'm sure the prongs did not really hurt him, and probably would
do less damage than a tightly pulled choke collar, which often caused him
to gasp as he struggled against it.

It's really his choice, after all, to struggle uncomfortably or allow me to
follow him (mostly) where he wants to go on a loose leash. I would not want
to cause him any extreme pain or damage, but he has a very tough muscular
neck and a very willful disposition, and he needs to know when he needs to
obey my commands, for his own good. It is not too much unlike Army and
Marines boot camp, which can seem very harsh (and sometimes does exceed
reasonable limits), but the end result is (usually) a well trained and
effective member of a team with extraordinary capability.

I find it hard to be harsh with Muttley. When he is not distracted, he
seems to listen well to even soft spoken commands (at times almost
suggestions). Perhaps he does not fear me as he would someone who was a
very strong disciplinarian, but in a way I also admire his strong spirit of
independence, hopefully also coupled with respect and affection for me.

This evening, upon returning from the lessons, Photon jumped onto the hood
of the car, and apparently did not see Muttley riding shotgun. He saw her,
of course, and he tensed up and did not seem to want to leave the car
(where usually he would crawl over me to get out). When he finally came
out, somehow his leash became unhooked from his collar, and he ran into the
woods where Photon had retreated only moments before. Fearing the worst,
and hoping he would not run into the road, I called and whistled for him.
Soon I saw him looking at something on the ground, and he came past me when
I called, and then went up the steps on the porch. His first order of
business was to devour what was left of Photon's food, but then he
willingly allowed me to refasten the leash and let him in the house. After
feeding him, I went out, called Photon to the porch, and fed and petted her
briefly while Muttley watched.

It's hard to say what Muttley would do if Photon would allow him near
enough for real physical interaction. I think she has enough wild smarts
that she would play it safe and not allow that to happen. I think he would
be OK as long as she did not run. He seems OK with smaller dogs (well, most
dogs are smaller than he is), but I don't know if a cat invokes other
reactions. At least it seems like Photon is doing OK now with the whole
world outside of the house as her domain, and Muttley is King of the house
and outside to the extent of his tether.

I will do some more work with Muttley using the small prong collar, and I
may try a larger one which may provide better control. It may just prove
necessary to use such a fearsome contraption on my dog because he is so
literally and figuratively headstrong. Maybe once he gets my attention, he
will not need such strong correction. I will certainly still make sure his
attitude toward me is one more of respect and affection, rather than fear.
I think his overall lack of aggressiveness, and general calmness, show that
he is not overly stressed, but fairly well adjusted. I hope he/we can make
good progress over the next several weeks.

Paul


Janet B

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Sep 13, 2006, 7:43:57 AM9/13/06
to
On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 01:00:25 -0400, "Paul E. Schoen"
<pst...@smart.net>, clicked their heels and said:

>
>I will do some more work with Muttley using the small prong collar, and I
>may try a larger one which may provide better control.

The small links generally offer more "oomph", believe it or not.

>It may just prove
>necessary to use such a fearsome contraption on my dog because he is so
>literally and figuratively headstrong.

Get over the fearsome stuff.

> I will certainly still make sure his
>attitude toward me is one more of respect and affection, rather than fear.

Pinch collars and training (asking for something and following
through) have nothing to do with fear. If you're under that
impression, we need to change that. Being a strong leader doesn't
mean putting the fear of god into the dog.

>I think his overall lack of aggressiveness, and general calmness, show that
>he is not overly stressed, but fairly well adjusted. I hope he/we can make
>good progress over the next several weeks.

I anticipate coming next week - how has the "sit on it" been going?

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Foren...@hotmail.com

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Sep 13, 2006, 12:44:40 PM9/13/06
to
HOWEDY paulie, welcome to the world of doggy facism,

Paul E. Schoen wrote:
> Tonight I took Muttley to his first night of obedience training.

No paulie, you took your RESCUE dog Muttly to his first
night of formal jerkin choking and intimidating <{): ~ ( >

> I had thought he would do better,

BWEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAAA!!!

You're hurtin your dog under the INSTRUCTON of janet
boss, the dog murderin lyin mental case who couldn't
train her "STUDENT" nessa's dogs not to shit an piss
in her HOWES and turn on her despite the constant
jerking choking shocking and tying IT to the wall
in the crapper.

nessa's dogs got her EVICTED to boot <{}: ~ ( >

"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction" --Janet Boss

"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828...@mb-m18.aol.com...

> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
> Janet Boss
>
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1...@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...

> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916...@mb-m17.aol.com...
> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.

An INSENSITIVE DOG???

> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.

> but the prospect of 20 or so dogs and people,

You mean fearful dogs and their abusers.

> and an array of irresistable smells,

Dogs often shit an piss themselves and release
anal gland fluid when they're being jerked choked
an shocked like HOWE janet PREFERS, paulie <{): ~ ( >

> made him hard to control.

THAT'S INSANE, paulie. Muttley is "hard to CON-TROLL"
on accHOWENT of YOU CHOKE and INTIMIDATE him <{): ~ ( >

> After struggling for a while with his "choker" chain collar,

Dogs LIKE that part, paulie. Jerking choking and shocking
dogs SHOWES them LEADERSHIP an teaches them RESPECT for
your doGlike AUTHORITY <{}: ~ ) >

Hurting and intimidating dogs children and SP-HOWESES
SHOWES them YOU CARE by DEAMONSTRATING your UNCONDITIONAL
LOVE TRUST and RESPECT.

> we tried a "pinch" collar.

Dogs PREFER their pronged spiked pinch choke collars
on accHOWENT of PHYSICS, paulie. They spread the CHOKIN
arHOWEND the entire throat, not just on the larynx as
the traditional slip choke collar is suppHOWESED to do
if you're usin it RIGHT, high up on the neck behind the
ears, held tightly but not so tight as to constantly
CHOKE the dog UNLESS he FORGETS who the LEADER is, eh?

You just gotta learn HOWE to talk doggy, paulie:

Here's janet's PARTNER:

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

sinofabitch writes:
> > What I have said- repeatedly - is that he
> > took posts from two different people,
> > took pieces of them out of context,

Of curse. QUOTED. You wanna see it in context?

> > cobbled them together,

No. There was WON DIRECT QUOTE.

> > then added his own words:

"Neatly," and "Smartly."

> > and a fake signature.

"sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.

> > Which is exactly what he did.

INDEEDY. That's HOWE COME you deny it.

> > The actual quote is misleading

That so?

> > when taken out of context,

We'd been talkin abHOWET beatin the dog with a shoe...

> > and Jerry's faked "quote"

The WON sinofabitch totally DENIES.

> > is downright meaningless.

Only if you're a MENTAL CASE.

Here's Jerry's version

"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.

Here's yours:

"I dropped the leash, threw my
right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
grabbed her opposite foot with my
left hand, rolled her on her side,
leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and
nipped her ear.
--Sara Sionnach

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

See?

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "CourteHOWES Canine."

"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?

When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first time,
spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth and walk
away. The dog won't be too thrilled with this but just
ignore him and continue your normal behavior."
--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"CourteHOWES Canines"

> He seemed to respond better with that,

INDEEDY. Your dog LOVES being gently guided by
dozens of spikes diggin into ITS throat like
mom dog's teeth when she's abusin IT <{): ~ ) >

> but still he was easily distracted.

Perhaps you should slather your arse with bacon fat, eh paulie?

> I'm sure the prongs did not really hurt him,

Of curse not, paulie. DOGS LOVE PRONGES diggin into
their throats, it REMINDS them of their gentle tender
loving caring doting mommy who ABUSED IT as a puppy
as IT was taught by her abusive mommy, human, dog or
otherWIZE.

Abuse is a LEARNED behavior, paulie.

You're learnin FAST.

> and probably would do less damage than a tightly pulled choke collar,

PROBABLY NOT, paulie. There's SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE, CASE STUDIES,
which PROVES the THREAT of FEAR or PAIN FORCE and INTIMDIATION
are greater STRESSORS *(in dog trainin that means MOTIVATORS)
than the ACTUAL PAIN INFLICTED.

THAT'S HOWE COME dogs do their "HAPPY DANCE" when
they see their pronged spiked pinch choke and shock
collars comin at them in the hands of their abusers.

> which often caused him to gasp as he struggled against it.

Naaaah?

The PRONGES WORK by forewarning the dog of the impending
PAIN every time he wears the midevil torture device, often
misunderstood as a CRUEL TRAININ TOOL, paulie <{): ~ ) >

> It's really his choice, after all,

INDEED. Dogs PREFER strong leadership pain fear force and
intimdiation JUST LIKE HOWE children an SP-HOWESES RESPECT
strong leadership.

> to struggle uncomfortably or allow me to follow him (mostly)

You mean the dog's CHOICE is to walk NICE an let YOU FOLLOW HIM,
or CHOKE trying to ESCAPE your choke HOWELD, eh paulie? Wouldn't
THAT make YOU the "pack follower" INSTEAD of bein the fearless
LEADER, paulie?

Let's start by gettin your head EXXXAMINED by a competent
psychotherapist / diagnostician. Perhaps you suffered some
BRAIN DAMAGE, eh paulie?

> where he wants to go on a loose leash.

While YOU FOLLOW HIM to INSPIRE LEADERSHIP, paulie?

Subject: Re: Discipline
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 02:43:46 -0500
From: Amanda <ama...@dcfwatch.com>

"then i heard him tell someone on the news group"Do you
think hitting babies is intelligent" and i was like whoa..
now i feel like cocka and pray every time i distract them
that they can somehow grow up not to hate me..

and i pray i caugh myself in enough time."

> I would not want to cause him any extreme pain or damage,

OF CURSE NOT, paulie, despite that you could TRAIN ANY
dog to heel in a few minutes witHOWET CHOKIN or bribing
them simply by DOIN EVERYTHING EXXXACTLY PRECISELY OPPOSITE
of HOWE you been trained by your abusive parents, paulie.

LIKE THIS:

"Greg M. Silverman" <gmsNOS...@no.umn.edu> wrote in message

Hey, Mr. Wizard, or Alchemist or whatever your alias
of the day is, have to say that our dog heels much
better than she did. This is after reading and
implementing the bit in your "Wits End" treatise.

And she's a royal nutter (but then again, aren't they all?).
Cheers! Greg--

AND LIKE THIS:

"Hennie van Dalen" <h.vandalen11***removethis...@chello.nl>
wrote in message news:TlsCb.2895$7U1.7896@amstwist00...

RTFM is age-old computer lingo.... It stands for "Read The
F***ing Manual" ;-) I used the manual and it works very good!

But it is a long text to read (76 pages printed on A4-size
paper) My lab is 1year old now, and teaching him something
new takes about 30minutes (depending on what to teach offcourse)

My other dog (a 7year old staffordshire terrier-mix) is a bit
slower in learning, but he is used to me calling him a "bad
dog"whenever he did something i didn't want him to do, or
it might be the age.

Sometimes it looks like Sam (the lab) WANTS to learn
something new: he wants me to bring along the can
filled with washers whenever we go for a walk. It is a
very "humane" way of teaching: the dog is allways a
"good dog", and never a "bad dog"

There is nu punishment or prong-collars involved.

For a fact i tought him to heel in 15min's without
beeing on a leach at-all !!! When he spotted a dog,
he used to run towards it, but now i tought him to "ask
permission" first, and to my surprise it worked!

My dogs never went to puppy-training (lucky for them),
maybe this helped too.

Manual can be found at http://www.doggydoright.com/id3.html

----------

AND LIKE THIS:

From: "Paul B" <NOS...@clear.net.nz>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 21:04:56

Subject: Re: It doesn't work. Do it harder.

"Chris Williams" <k9ap...@webtv.net> wrote in message
> Interesting question posed in this article: why do
> humans persist in doing things that are unsuccessful?
> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/=AD=AD=ADarticle.cgi?
> f=3D/c/a/2003/02/15=AD/=AD=ADHO240381.DTL

There may be a few reasons, sometimes it's ignorance,
simply a failure to realise what you are doing is
futile and you need to adopt a different approach.

Sometimes you may be learning a new technique and
need to experiment with it to be sure it's not just
the way you are applying it that is the problem,
you may need to try slight variations of the same
technique to see if there is a different result
before you dismiss it completely.

Sometimes you are doing the only thing you can
think of, even though it's not working but you
simply don't know what else to do.

Either way as long as you are able to reflect
and learn from your experiences and move forward
then a few failed attempts are all part of the
learning process.

My best example was teaching both dogs to walk
to heel, alone and together in the brace position.

I was determined to teach them without any aids
choke, prong collars or treats etc) and without
forcing the heel by jerking or restraining them
using a leash, I knew it could be done, despite
the scorn of friends and even family who "knew
better" (but had never actually trained a dog
in their lives).

It took me a while trying various ways to entice
them to want to walk beside me, someone else at
the dog park whose dog appeared to heel very
well ( but held it's ears back and tail down and
looked very intimidated about being at heel)
suggested I give up and use a choke collar like
him, but I was obstinate.

One day like a switch it all fell into place,
first one dog then the other then both together
all walked to heel, then I tried without leads
and it worked, the dogs were happy and so was I.

I had persevered and succeeded and learnt a lot
in the process.

People said "it took you long enough" but now I
could teach heel easily and quickly when I need
to do it again. And now when I walk my dogs and
I see the same scornful people with their dogs
still pulling on the choke collars saying "heel,
heel" it's me who has the last laugh.

Paul

----------

> but he has a very tough muscular neck

The dog's neck is the strongest muscle in it's body, AIN'T IT, paulie?

> and a very willful disposition,

You mean he OBJECTS to you jerkin an chokin him, paulie?

> and he needs to know when he needs to obey my commands,

OF curse, just like a child or a SP-HOWES, eh paulie?

> for his own good.

But of curse:

"my grandchildren will never ever.. ever.. feel
shame or feel like they're not loved :).

then i heard him tell someone on the news group "Do you
think hitting babies is intelligent" and i was like whoa..
now i feel like cockaroach and pray every time i distract
them that they can somehow grow up not to hate me..

and i pray i caught myself in enough time." Amanda.

> It is not too much unlike Army and Marines boot camp,

That so, paulie? They don't physically choke and intimidate inductees.

> which can seem very harsh

Not at all, paulie. The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely
Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey
Wizard rather ADMIRED the military way of enforcing discipline
and DEMONSTRATING LEADERSHIP through SELF CON-TROLL, fair
mindedness and consistency and has applied much of it's
teachins to HIS 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits'End Dog, Child, Kat And Horse Training Method
Manual <{): ~ ) >

> (and sometimes does exceed reasonable limits),

OH?

Soldiers in the military have an INSPECTOR GENERAL and
the U.C.M.J. *(Uniform Code Of Military Justice) which
PROTECTS INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS to kindly, gentle treatment
of ALL subjects <{): ~ ) >

That MEANS there's NO PHYSICAL PUNISHMENT, paulie.

> but the end result is (usually) a well trained and
> effective member of a team with extraordinary capability.

NO, paulie. The military boasts a MINIMUM 10% FAILURE
rate NEARLY INSTANTLY for ALL inductees, volunteer or
otherWIZE, INCLUDING their trained marine mammals, soon
as they hit open water and FREE FOOD, paulie.

THEY DON'T CARE abHOWET the FAILURES paulie, THEY GOT
PLENTY FLESH to P-HOWEND into men or fish as it were,
paulie, and they DON'T DO IT by bein ABUSIVE EXXXCEPT
for restricted diets and witHOWELDING food (in the
marine mammals corps) <{): ~ ( >

> I find it hard to be harsh with Muttley.

No you don't you pathetic ignorameHOWES.

YOU PREFER to HURT your dog:

Subject: Re: Discipline
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 02:43:46 -0500
From: Amanda <ama...@dcfwatch.com>
To: "N

On Wednesday 15 January 2003 01:54, "N wrote:

i responded in katie's mail.. youll get it before this one :)
i'm not the expert.. mr. howe is teaching me.. and im
figuring alot out.. plus its just coming to me.. two months
ago i would cry cuz i was soooo lost... and now i go ahead
and live it... like he gave me just enough for my brain to fill
in the rest?

when i would swat in my early parent years.. up until i got
crunchy this last year.. i swore spanking was great.. a lil
bit of fear in yo' momma is what i would say.. and my
family supported me.. you can spank and not be abusive.

------------

THAT'S The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME, People!

Abuse / fear / aggression / hyperactivity / shyness / suicide
attempts AIN'T a genetic problem, it's a SPIRITUAL problem,
passed on from WON generatiHOWEN of abuser to the next, like
the 100th monkey washin fruit in the stream. After a while
it's not just NORMAL, it's OBLIGATORY.

To do otherWIZE would be DISRESPECTFUL of your parental teachins.

The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME Is the Perfect Synergy Of
Love, Pride, Desire, Shame, Greed, Ego, Fear,
Hate, Reflex, Self Will,
Arrogance, Ignorance, Predjudice, Cowardice,
Disbelief, Jealousy, Embarrassment, Embellishment,
Guilt, Anger, Hopelessness, Helplesness,
Aversion, Attraction, Inhibition, Revulsion, Repulsion,
Change, Permanence, Enlightenment, Insult, Attrition,
And
Parental / ReligiHOWES / Societal Conditioning.

YOU ARE THE CRITTER YOU WAS TRAINED.

It Is The Perfect Fusion Of The Word..., In The Physical.

There Are NO Gray Areas Between RIGHT And WRONG.

"Only The Unenlightened Speak Of
Wisdom And Right Action
As Separate, Not The Wise.

If Any Man Knows One, He Enjoys The Fruit Of Both.

The Level Which Is Reached By Wisdom
Is Attained Through Right Action As Well.

He Who Perceives That The Two Are One Knows The Truth."

"Even The Wise Man Acts In Character With His Nature,
Indeed All Creatures
Act According To Their Natures.

What Is The Use Of Compulsion Then?

The Love And Hate Which Are Aroused
By The Objects Of Sense
Arise From Nature,

DO NOT YIELD TO THEM.

They Only Obstruct The Path."-
- Bhagavad Gita, Adapted By
Krishna
With Permission From His Own FREE COPY
Of
The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's
100% Consistently Nearly Instantly Successful
FREE WWW Wits' End Training Method Manual
<{) ' ~ ) >

Force Training JERRYIZES Critters
And GETS THEM DEAD.

The Methods, Principles And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change,
Or They'd Not Be Scientific
And Could Not Obtain
Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective, Safe Results
For All Handler's And All Critters,
And ALL Behaviors
In ALL FIELDS And ALL UTILITIES,
ALL OVER The Whole Wild World,
NEARLY INSTANTLY,
As Taught In Your Own FREE Copy Of The Sincerely Incredibly
Freakin Insanely Simply
A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
GRAND
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE
WWW Wits'End Dog, Child, Kat And Horse Training Method Manual

<{} ; ~ ) >

> When he is not distracted, he seems to listen well to
> even soft spoken commands (at times almost suggestions).

Ahhh, kinda like HOWE The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely
Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard
teaches in HIS 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog, Child, Kat And Horse Training Method Manual <{}: ~ )
>

You know, the WON that DRIVES DOG and CHILD ABUSERS INSANE, paulie.

> Perhaps he does not fear me as he would someone who was a
> very strong disciplinarian, but in a way I also admire his
> strong spirit of independence, hopefully also coupled with
> respect and affection for me.

That's all you punks understand is FEAR and RESPECT, eh paule?

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com
To: <d...@arcane-computing.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:38 PM
Subject: Doggy advice

Scott, Jerry Howe forwarded me the letter below.
I'm glad that you referred negatively to Jerry's
habit of CAPITALIZING and HOWEING everything.

I personally hate this habit of his. I think it is his
way of diluting his authority - IME he is a very modest
fellow. However, contrary to your sneer, he is very
competent at living with dogs.

I thought I'd list a series of actions which I found
on the list, folk asking advice on what to do about
dogs doing this and that, for example:

whining,
humping, hunching,
pacing,
self mutilation - paw licking, side sucking,
spinning,
prolonged barking, barking at shadows,
overstimulated barking,
fighting, bullying other dogs,
compulsive digging,
compulsive scratching,
compulsive chewing,
frantic behavior,
chasing light, chasing shadow,
stealing food,
digging in garbage can,
loosing house (toilet) training.
inappropriate fearfulness
aggression.

The thing that is fascinating to me, as an ethologist who
graduated from college 50 years ago and has spent all of
the intervening time working with animals (including the
human animal), is that you never see any of these behaviors
in wild dingoes, jackals, coyotes or wolves, you don't even
see these behaviors in hyenas (who aren't dog related).

You see these behaviors in human managed animals, especially
animals who live with neurotic hysterical humans.

As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there
is no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving
care.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine

> This evening, upon returning from the lessons, Photon jumped
> onto the hood of the car, and apparently did not see Muttley
> riding shotgun. He saw her, of course, and he tensed up and
> did not seem to want to leave the car (where usually he would
> crawl over me to get out).

Your dog BLAMES THE KAT for YOU CHOKIN HIM you
freakin animal abusin ignorameHOWES <{): ~ ) >

> When he finally came out, somehow his leash became unhooked
> from his collar, and he ran into the woods where Photon had
> retreated only moments before.

BWEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!

The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing Grand
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard TOLD YOU your dog
will MURDER YOUR KAT, paulie:

"SHIT ROLLS DHOWEN HILL."

> Fearing the worst,

BWEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAA!!!

> and hoping he would not run into the road,

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!

> I called and whistled for him.

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAAAAAAA!!!!

The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing Grand
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard teaches HIS 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits'End Dog,
Child, Kat And Horse Training Method Manual Students ALL OVER
the WHOWEL WILD WORLD HOWE to not pull on leash and HOWE to
install the come command as a CONDITIONAL REFLEX in WON SESSION,
paulie.

There's DOZENS of CASE HISTORIES PROVING THAT, paulie.

> Soon I saw him looking at something on the ground,

Leftover kat guts, perhaps?

> and he came past me when I called,

You mean he AVOIDED you, paulie.

> and then went up the steps on the porch. His first order
> of business was to devour what was left of Photon's food,

Right. You was gonna learn HOWE to train him not to eat the kat food:

From: Paul B (NOSPAMpaulbou...@clear.net.nz)
Subject: Re: Dog vs cat food (stealing cat food)
Date: 2001-03-03 22:18:03 PST

It's possible to teach a dog not to eat out of a cat bowl
without too much difficulty.

My dogs don't touch the food in the cat bowls although
Roz licks up any bits that have been dropped around
the bowls :-)

I used a can with stones in it to create a distraction
anytime the dogstried to eat the cats food, followed
with immediate praise. It worked a treat.

The cats bowls are down all the time, usually there
is food left over but the dogs don't eat it, even if we
go out and leave the dogs with access inside through
a dog door.

Paul

> but then he willingly allowed me to refasten the leash

HURRAY!

> and let him in the house.

You mean ON LEASH so you can jerk an choke him as necessary.

> After feeding him, I went out, called Photon to the porch,
> and fed and petted her briefly while Muttley watched.

That's kindly of you.

> It's hard to say what Muttley would do if Photon would
> allow him near enough for real physical interaction.

Yeah. He'd PROBABLY MURDER the kat like HOWE culprit's dogs
done to her seven THOWESAND dollar kat an maybe get his
eyes scratched HOWET to boot, if you're LUCKY, paulie.
otherWIZE it could cost you THOWESANDS of hard earned
DHOWE at the emergency veterinary HOWEspital <{}: ~ ) >

> I think she has enough wild smarts

You mean FEAR, paulie.

> that she would play it safe and not allow that to happen.

INDEEDY. CuriHOWES AIN'T IT paulie HOWE you animal lovers
equate FEAR with RESPECT and SUBMISSIVENESS as TRUST <{}: ~ ) >

> I think he would be OK as long as she did not run.

You mean on accHOWENT of you don't know HOWE to TRAIN
your dog not to attack your kat nodoGdameneD better
than the pathetic animal abusin mental cases you're
PAYIN for ADVICE, eh paulie?:


Date: 5/22/03 11:24:35 PM Eastern
Daylight Time
From: p...@cfl.rr.com
To: Witsend...@aol.com

Well, let me tell you, your Wits' End
Dog Training Method works.

My dog, Dasie, Loves to chase chameleons
around the barbecue on the patio. I
used this system on four different occasions.

When she went out today, she looked
everywhere else but the barbecue.
Amazing, just amazing.

I will write to Amanda about the video.

I am really excited to learn more, and
understand. Maybe just a little reassurance
that I am going about it the right way.

Thanks again
Paul

-----------------------

AND LIKE THIS:

Subject: Chasing squirrels

From: lindalee
Date: Sat, Jan 21 2006 10:34 pm
Email: "lindalee" <llindaleedan...@msn.com>
Groups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior

I have not posted to the group for awhile but want
to share my success of teaching my dog Sunshine,
who has a very high prey drive, to not go after
squirrels when on a walk.

It took a few trials but he can now walk right
past squirrels running up a tree or in a yard.

Using Jerry Howe's approach I used a sound to get his
attention when he saw a squirrel and then praised him
and kept on walking past the squirrel.

Where we live in Michigan we lots of squirrels and he
was always wanting to chase them up a tree. Jerry's
approach of sound and praise really works.

I think the people who discount his methods have never
tried the method because it works everytine. Sometimes
it takes a little practice to get the sound from different
directions but I was able to change Sunshine's behavior in
just a week after we moved back to Michigan.

Sunshine is a very sensitive dog so any physical corrections
just won't work but using sound and praise he is a really
great dog who opens doors, picks up things I drop, and and
helps me a lot.

If you have a behavior problem with your dog get a
copy of Jerrry's manual and solve your problem!

----------

But then of curse, lizards an squirrels AIN'T a kat,
the dog's most feared natural enemy, eh paulie?

> He seems OK with smaller dogs (well, most dogs are smaller than he is),

ALL AGGRESSION IS FEAR, paulie.

> but I don't know if a cat invokes other reactions.

Yeah, it's their MYSTICISM, paule. Kats have been revered
by WITCHES and MAGICKIANS and even the Egyptians for their
PRHOWESS, even stealin the breath from babies as they sleep.

> At least it seems like Photon is doing OK now with the whole
> world outside of the house as her domain, and Muttley is King
> of the house and outside to the extent of his tether.

You mean you had to GET RID of the kat, eh paulie?

> I will do some more work with Muttley using the small prong collar,

Of curse you will, paulie. You're a natural born coward.

> and I may try a larger one which may provide better control.

No paulie, the skinny links HURT MOORE.

> It may just prove necessary to use such a fearsome contraption
> on my dog because he is so literally and figuratively headstrong.

You mean on accHOWENT of you ain't got the intellect to HOWEtwit
the cunning of the domestic puppy dog even after The Sincerely
Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child,
Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard and HIS 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits'End Dog, Child, Kat And Horse
Training Method Manual Students ALL OVER the WHOWEL WILD WORLD
told you HOWE they done it EZ GENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY and FOR
FREE, to boot, eh paulie?

> Maybe once he gets my attention, he will not need such strong correction.

Well paulie, you've certainly learned HOWE to BLAME
you hurtin your dog on the victim, JUST LIKE HOWE
child an SP-HOWES abusers always do, eh paulie?

> I will certainly still make sure his attitude toward me
> is one more of respect and affection, rather than fear.

You mean DESPITE you chokin him, paulie?

> I think his overall lack of aggressiveness,

You mean towards small dogs and yourself, when you hurt him, paulie?

> and general calmness,

AIN'T THAT HOWE COME you're TRYIN to get him trained, paulie?

> show that he is not overly stressed, but fairly well adjusted.

That so? Is THAT HOWE COME you're CHOKIN HIM, paulie?

> I hope he/we can make good progress over the next several weeks.

INDEEDY!

Your posted case history will serve us well, paulie <{): ~ ) >

> Paul

Punishment ALWAYS Deranges Behavior.
"NO!" Does NOT Have Any Behavioral Function
EXCEPT
To DERANGE Behaviors.

Here's professor "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM NO! into ITS face for
five seconds and lock IT in a box for ten minutes contemplation"
dermer of the Department of ANAL-ytic Behavior at UofWI, pryor:

From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST

And how do we know this aspect of his
advice is right?

Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.

(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
ill-mannered, or just plain ill.­),

--Marshall


Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of
Wisconsin-Milwaukee/ Milwaukee, WI 53201/ der...@uwm.edu
http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
"Life is just too serious to be taken entirely seriousyl!"


From: der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer) -
Date: 1998/08/28
Subject: Re: Puppy growls and snaps

In article <6s6ea0$8c...@uwm.edu> der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall
Dermer) writes: In article <35E60819.65178...@pilot.msu.edu>
> >tami sutherland <suthe...@pilot.msu.edu> writes:

>> However, there have been incidences where she has
>> growled and snapped at us...for instance, when we
>> were trying to dry her off after bathtime.

> When your three-month old pooch growls or snaps, IMMEDIATELY
> pick her up ONLY by the skin at the back of her neck, for 5
> sec, and loudly say, "NO!" Alternatively, say "NO!" and hold
> her mouth shut for say 15 sec.

> If she so snaps that you can't do the above then you
> will have to find another way to administer a prompt
> correction, for example, throwing a can filled with
> pennies, or a tug on the collar. --Marshall

"Oops! I would start by only holing her mouth
shut for say 5 sec.

At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.

**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).

"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.

BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!

That's INSANE. Ain't it.

P.S. Contacting Dr. P:

Please note that due to the large number of
requests I receive, I can no longer give free,
personal advice on problems related to dog
training and behavior.

In order for me to give such advice we would
have to "talk" about the problem at length.

That is, I would need detailed information about
the dog, it's environment and routine, the problem,
and the situation in which the problem occurs.

Thus, this type of consultation takes time which
I cannot afford to give away for free.

If you wish such advice, please see the information
I have provided about my K9 Behavioral Consulting
practice. Another alternative to obtaining personal
advice is to participate in e-mail, chat room, &
newsgroup discussions.

P.P.S. BWEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!

YOU'RE FRAUDS, drs p. and dermer!

Either DEFEND your LIES, ABUSE And
Degrees or get the heel HOWETA THIS
BUSINESS.

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
To: "Jerry Howe" <theamazingpuppywiz...@mail.com>
Subject: Alleged Professors of Animal Behavior
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:50:51 -0400

Dear Jerry, I paged through some of the "dog business"
and was astonished at the low quality of opinions arising
from professors of behavior analysis.

I had the very great privilege of meeting Sam Corson
(Pavlov's last Ph.D. student) and his dogs at Ohio
University. I even got to spend a night at Sam's house.

There is no question but that you are a spiritual brother
to Corson and to Pavlov, both of whom knew that the dog's
great capacity for love was the key to shaping doggie behavior.

Paradoxical reward and paradoxical fixing of attention are
both well documented Pavlovian techniques. Even so humorless
a chap as B.F. Skinner taught students like the Breland's whose
"The Misbehavior of Organisms" demonstrate the utility of your
methods and their deep roots in scientific (as opposed to
commercial) psychology.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
you may find my resume in Who's Who in
Science and Technology


Here's professor dermer AFTER gettin JERRYIZED:

"We Are Lucky To Have You, And More People Should
Come To Their Senses And Support Your Valuable Work.
God Bless The Puppy Wizard," Professor Marshall Dermer,
Dept Of ANAL-ytic Behavior, UofWI.

From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@csd.uwm.edu>
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
<ThePuppyWiz...@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM

Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,

I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.

You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent­,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts ­to
alert the world to animal abuse.

We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and support your valuable
work.

Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
charity to fund your important work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?

In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.

--Marshall Dermer

Subject: < BEFORE -> "Jerry, You filthy, Unctuous,
No Good Charlatan,"

< AFTER -> "Thank You Jerry For Putting Up With
A Constant Barrage Of Really Infantile
Crap At The Hands Of Supposedly Adult
Dog Lovers.

'Naive' Is Believing You Can Terrorize
A Dog Into Good Behavior," Robert Crim.

>Subject: Re: Fritz---a retrospective
>Date: 02/05/1999
>Author: Robert Crim <fritzg...@earthlink.net>
> You filthy, unctuous, no good charlatan. If you had
> any idea of what dogs and dog people were about
> you would realize the depths of the absolute loathing
> and contempt I hold for you right now. Were it not
> for the blessed distance and anonymity that the internet
> gives us from the scummy likes of you, I would probably
> be in a jail cell right now for turning you into the pile
> of shit you really are

Hey, Howe, you really are a wacko, eh?

Crim wrote this about *YOU,* you insipid piece of cow dung!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@i1.net
http://www.i1.net/~dogman

=====================

> On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:24:15 -0700, dogsnus

<"Terri"@cyberhighway> Wrote:>

> Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
> He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
> watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
> Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
> come forward and actually believe in his training manual.

Robert Crim writes:

I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope,
understood enough of the manual and it's counterparts by
John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe
and use it.

This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.

The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.

To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog.

Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake
names are more honest than people that use their real
names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.)
are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.

"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.

Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.

> And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and
> actually admit to buying and having success with his
> little black box.

I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.

> Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
> Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming
> to him! LOL!

I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.

>Terri

Yes it was, and that is sad.

Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)

===========

Crim wrote THAT about *YOU,* tommy,
"you insipid piece of cow dung!"

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


From: "The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWiz...@EarthLink.Net>
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 17:26:31 GMT

Subject: Dr. George VonHilshimer Writes: "No Loving, No Learning."

HOWEDY People,

Perhaps the PROBLEM is "TOO MANY WORDS?"

From: "The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWiz...@EarthLink.Net>
To: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 4:40 AM
Subject: Fw: Counter Cruising must stop

> From: "diannes" <dian...@bolt.sonic.net>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
> Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 12:18 PM
> Subject: Re: Counter Cruising must stop
> > LeeCharlesKelley <kelleymet...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > I wrote:
> > > > LeeCharlesKelley <kelleymet...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > > On another note: I understand why someone
> > > > > proclaiming a method that works on all dogs,
> > > > > all the time, would send up "red flag" to you
> > > > > and others, but the fact remains, if a technique
> > > > > *doesn't* work 100% of the time, with all dogs,
> > > > > then there must be a flaw in the philosophy
> > > > > underlying that technique.

> > > > Ditto for dog training. No failure nor flaw of method
> > > > is involved - that's just acceptance of reality.

> > > First of all, I didn't say that there was a flaw in the
> > > method, though anyone is welcome to make that
> > > leap.

> > > I said there was a flaw in the underlying philosophy
> > > and its model of learning.

> > Correction accepted. I think that perhaps we are using
> > terminology differently here. Here is my use of the terms:

Jerry, I don't know where you find these folk who can't read.

> In order to use negative reinforcement, one must
> typically administer the aversive stimulus in order
> to be able to terminate it.

This is not negative reinforcement. Negative means no.

Positive reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
reward emitted immediately by trainer;

Negative reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
no response by trainer;

Aversive reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
aversive stimuli emitted immediately by trainer;

The term "reinforcement is used only tentatively with
"aversion" because aversive stimuli (aka punishment)
typically derange learning and are not followed by clean
learning curves equivalent to those which follow reward
or positive reinforcement;

Escape conditioning = dog has an aversive stimulus
applied without any dog related reason and when
behavior is emitted aversive stim is immediately turned off .

There is some indication that Escape Conditioning
works in a manner closely approximating reward;
but, ear pinch? -- too aversive.

I remind you that you should beat them over the head
with "The Misbehavior of Organisms" by Breland and
Breland, published in B.F. Skinner's CUMULATIVE
RECORD. Ignored by most profs of psychology, but
the distillation of his work.

NO PUNISHMENT.

Must pay attention to who is the animal?

His evolution, his development, and his personal history -
cannot train without respect for who is the dog? So says
the BIG TIME operant conditioning guru - and you can also
refer back to MARY COVER JONES (mother of scientific
systematic psychology), no loving, no learning.

I suppose I could wire up a dog so that his brain was
badly interrupted and the loving method of puppy training
might not work well - but it would still work better than
the methods used by dominatrix and their ilk.

Lovingly applied ethological techniques like the one
espoused by the Wizard of ALL puppies work for all
dogs, for that matter for all mammals higher than cat.

Indeed, they will work for cats if trainer is warmly competent.

You can see this in Key West on any sunny day.
Housecats performing quite happily.

Fondly, Dr. Von

From: TooCool (larrym...@hotmail.com)
The Puppy Wizard's Wits End Training Method

I have studied canine behavior and dog training for
years. I have a huge library that covers every system
of training.

The Puppy Wizard's (Jerry Howe's) Wits' End Training
Method is by far the most scientific, the most advanced,
the kindest, the quickest and the most effective training
method yet discovered.

It is not an assortment of training tips and tricks; it is
a logically consistent system. Every behavior problem
and every obedience skill is treated in the same logically
consistent manner.

Please study his manual carefully. Please endeavor to
understand the basis of his system and please follow
his directions exactly. His manual is a masterpiece.
It is dense with theory, with explanation, with detailed
descriptions about why behavior problems occur and
how their solution should be approached.

One should not pick and choose from among his methods
based upon what you personally like or dislike. His is
not a bag of tricks but a complete and integrated system
for not only training a dog but for raising a loving companion.

When I once said to Jerry that his system creates for
you the dog of your dreams, his response was that it
produces for your dog the owner of his dreams.

You see, Jerry has discovered that if you are gentle
with your dog then he will be gentle with you, if you
praise your dog every time he looks at you, then you
will become the center of your dogs world, if you use
Jerry's sound distraction with praise, then it takes
just minutes-sometimes merely seconds-to train your
dog to not misbehave (even in your absence) (Just 15
seconds this morning to train my 10 week old puppy to
lie quietly and let me clip his nails).

Using Jerry's scientific method (sound distraction /
praise / alteration / variation) it takes just minutes to
train you dog to respond to your commands.

What a pleasure it was for me to see my 6 week old
puppy running as fast has his wobbly little legs would
carry him in response to my recall command-and he
comes running every time I call no matter where we are
or what he is doing.

At ten weeks old now, my puppy never strains upon
his leash thanks to Jerry's hot & cold exercises and
his Family Pack Leadership exercises.

Jerry has discovered that if you scold your dog, if you
scream at him, if you intimidate him, if you hurt him,
if you force him then his natural response is to oppose
you.

Is Jerry a nut?

It doesn't make any difference to me whether he is or not.
It is a logical fallacy to judge a person's ideas based
upon their personality. As far as dogs are concerned, Jerry
wears his heart upon his sleeve. It touches him deeply when
he hears of trainers forcing, intimidating, scolding or
hurting dogs.

More than that, he knows that force is not effective
and that it will certainly lead to behavior problems;
sometime problems so severe that people put their
dogs down because of those problems.

I believe that it is natural for humans to want to control
their dog by force. Jerry knows this too. We have all been
at our wits' end, haven't we?

Dogs have a natural tendency to mimic. In scientific
literature it is referred to allelomimetic behavior. Dogs
respond in like kind to force; they respond in like kind
to praise.

Don't bribe your dog with treats; give him what he
wants most-your kind attention. Give him your praise.
You will be astonished at how your dog 's anxiety will
dissipate and how their behavior problems will dissipate
along with their anxiety.

Treat Jerry Howe's (The Puppy Wizard) Wits' End
Training Method as a scientific principle just as you
would the law of gravity and you will have astounding
success.

Dog behavior is just as scientific as is gravity.

If you follow Jerry's puppy rules you will get a sweet
little Magwai; if you don't you will surely get a little
gremlin (anyone see The Gremlins?). --Larry

From: Mike (m.bidd...@ns.sympatico.ca)
Subject: Re: Info. on the puppy wizard?
Date: 2004-07-18 14:27:02 PST

> > Oh, and did I mention his methods work, ya nuff said.
> > Mike
> Ok Mike which part worked for you?

It helped clear problems from my dogs in the
field using the can penny distraction technique.

Works like a charm.

My dogs get distracted easy from their jobs ie,
retrieving or training to find lost people, oh did
I mention that I am a Search and Rescue Team
Leader.

Sorry that slipped my mind.

I have read volumes of training books and don't
know where people get that Jerry copied others
work as I have NEVER come across his methods
before. I would like to see proof.

Just like Jerry outlined I eliminated problems one
at at time as they arose. I used to try and train to
the way I wanted them but this is backward, you
train out the problems leaving what you want left over.

Funny part is the second dog who had the same
problems as the other didn't need correcting for
some of his habits after I cleared it from the first
dog.

Seemed he learned through osmosis.

Nice side benefit there.

It nearly came to giving them up to a 3rd party
trainer as they were not performing well. The
VAST majority of working dog trainers are
agressive in their actions with the dogs.

I tried it and it didn't work and guess what I
was at my "Whits End" then someone I new
turned me onto Jerry and the rest is history.

I referred friends and families to Jerry's manual
and all have had great results. Starting puppies
out on the distraction technique is especially
good because they never develop the habit.

I had my sisters dog healing, sitting and down
stay reliably at 8-9 weeks. The first night home
following Jerrys advice we ditched the crate and
put the pup on the floor beside the bed and after
2 whimpers NOT A SOUND OUT OF THAT DOG
FOR 6 HRS! first night, that has never happened
in all my days.

Sorry, the man understands dogs its that simple.

Mike

"Ama...@DCFWatch.com" wrote:

No, the dog learned that I would hold still
the second she began to pull. She would pull
to go where *she* wanted.

Well if she wanted to stop and go in another
direction.. say to sniff my neighbors yard..

she learned if she wanted to do it I would stop
walking and she could go.. and if there wasn't
enough slack on her lead she would just pull me.

Then when she got done doing *her* thing, she woudl
heel.. smile at me and wait for me to say "let's go"
and finish *my* thing. I would refuse to move .. i
looked like an idiot.. freezing mid walk for minutes
waiting for *my* dog to heel and give *me* permission
to go again.

I did the treats and the let's go... she got to do her
stuff and get a cookie.. if she even wanted the cookie.

I wound up calling Jerry.. as I have a half red nose
pit and half amstaff.. who is incredibly protective..

we had a new pup on the way.. and i needed help.. i
followed petsmarts trainnign guides.. memorized them...
and they *did* work, don't get me wrong.. but only
when my pet wanted a cookie or felt the cookie was
better than what she wanted.. which was not often.

She quickly learned to ignore my commands if she
could see my hands were empty. So I called Jerry...
he chatted me for about an hour and a half.. gave me
his link... and even when i had probs intro'ing the
pup he called me withn i5 mins of my email for help
at 10pm on a sunday night.

One.. singular.. uno family pack exercise after
the hot and cold exercise and i could zig zag
down my street.. about face .. whatever.. and
never had tension.

two men were acrossed the street and she walked right
by them... ordinarily she'd snarl and protect us.

And in two days.. my dog.. who bit the puppy if he
even looked like he was going near my husband or kids..
is nursing him every hour.. cleaning him.. rough housing
gently.. and teaching him to go potty outside..

actually watches him to make sure he doesn't go in
the house... and has milk.. which is awesome since
she's 19 months old and has never had a litter.

She also has stopped barking non stop at our neighbor's
dogs and pig.. does not bark at eveyr car that drives by
and has stopped jumping on people. she's even starting
to ignore our cat who has lived on her dome litter box
and our window sill (literally) for over a year and a half.

She also does her commands on cue.. and doesn't look for a treat.

---------------

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
Subject: The Amazing Jerry's take on psychobabble
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:13:44 -0400

You might improve the learning of folk who actually
live with and train dogs to do useful things if you
excluded everyone who uses psychobabble from your lists.

I recommend to all of you who wish to taste the flavor
of sensible animal behaviorists to read THE MISBEHAVIOR
OF ORGANISMS, Breland and Breland.

This married pair of psychologists began the long trail
of highly trained animals who are symbolized by Shamu
eating a mackrel from a girl's hand instead of eating
the much more tasty pretty girl who is exactly the size
of the natural food of killer whales, seals. Yum!

The essay, by the way, is a chapter in B.F. Skinner's
summing up book, CUMULATIVE RECORD. They include a
sentence which more or less says, "unless you understand
the personal history of the particular animal, and the
history of this animal's species and group, the developmental
history of the animal, you cannot effectively train the animal.

Pigs root and hen's scratch, if you try to train hens without
scratching or pigs without scratching or pigeons without pecking,
you aren't going to have much success.

A conditional reflex is one which is learned, the original
primitive reflex occurs no matter what the history of the
animal, and is hard wired. If you train the animal to respond,
say by ringing a bell immediately before turning on a bright
light, then you've taught the animal and made his native reflex
of pupil constriction conditional upon the ringing of a bell.

Thorndyke added some terminology to this kind of training
and insisted that when you train the animal to make gross
motor responses that this learning is "instrumental", the
animal takes action and uses an instrument.

The Russian word translated as "conditional" in all other
contexts was mistranslated by Pavlov's American translator,
Horsley Gannt, as "conditioned" and so American psychology
went haring after phantasmagora.

The major theorists for the development of the language of
operant conditioning are Edward Thorndike, John Watson, and
B. F. Skinner. Their approach to behaviorism played a major
role in the development of American psychology.

They proposed that learning is the result of the application
of consequences; that is, learners begin to connect certain
responses with certain stimuli. This connection causes the
probability of the response to change (i.e., learning occurs.)

Thorndike labeled this type of learning instrumental. Using
consequences, he taught kittens to manipulate a latch (e.g.,
an instrument). Skinner renamed instrumental as "operant"
because in this learning, one is "operating" on, and is
influenced by, the environment. Where classical conditioning
illustrates S-->R learning, operant conditioning is often
viewed as R-->S learning since it is the consequence that
follows the response that influences whether the response
is likely or unlikely to occur again.

It is through operant conditioning that
voluntary responses are learned.

One should note that Russian Psychology did very well
without the operant language, and only pettifogging
university professors ought to worry about what kind
of label we attach to the learning. Pfui!

Even Skinner understood this!

And please note if you saw the original movie, THE
MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE, you saw a Chinese psychologist
who was based on Andrew Salter, CONDITIONED REFLEX
THERAPY.

Alas, Salter didn't have a Ph.D., but he basically rescued
us from the long Freudian nightmare and returned psychotherapy
to a scientific basis. Alas, the 2nd movie didn't even cite
Salter as a source. "...all the highest nervous activity, as
it manifests itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a
continual change of these three fundamental processes --
excitation, inhibition and disinhibition." Ivan P. Pavlov

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

What's important is, "does Shamu reliably eat
the fish and not the pretty girl?"

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com
To: <d...@arcane-computing.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:38 PM
Subject: Doggy advice

Scott, Jerry Howe forwarded me the letter below.
I'm glad that you referred negatively to Jerry's
habit of CAPITALIZING and HOWEING everything.

I personally hate this habit of his. I think it is his
way of diluting his authority - IME he is a very modest
fellow. However, contrary to your sneer, he is very
competent at living with dogs.

I thought I'd list a series of actions which I found
on the list, folk asking advice on what to do about
dogs doing this and that, for example:

whining,
humping, hunching,
pacing,
self mutilation - paw licking, side sucking,
spinning,
prolonged barking, barking at shadows,
overstimulated barking,
fighting, bullying other dogs,
compulsive digging,
compulsive scratching,
compulsive chewing,
frantic behavior,
chasing light, chasing shadow,
stealing food,
digging in garbage can,
loosing house (toilet) training.
inappropriate fearfulness
aggression.

The thing that is fascinating to me, as an ethologist who
graduated from college 50 years ago and has spent all of
the intervening time working with animals (including the
human animal), is that you never see any of these behaviors
in wild dingoes, jackals, coyotes or wolves, you don't even
see these behaviors in hyenas (who aren't dog related).

You see these behaviors in human managed animals, especially
animals who live with neurotic hysterical humans.

As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there
is no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving
care.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine

"Linda" <llindaleedan...@msn.com wrote in message
news:

I have been trying for the last 18 months to help my
dog who became fear aggressive at 18 month of age.
I do not know what started the problem but he came
aggressive first with dogs and then began lunging and
snapping at people. Until this time he loved everyone
and could play with any dog. He was well socialized
ad I took him with me everywhere.

At 13 months he passed the Canine Good Citizens
Test except he could let me leave him. I had used
clicker training to teach him manners and tricks but
it was not working on his aggression problem.

I took him to vets who suggested a low protein diet,
trainers who charged $800 to only make him worse.
They tried to use a prong collar and he froze, urinated
and tried to climb on my head to help him. they then
suggested a shock collar I knew this approach was not
working as he was becoming more aggressive.

I took him to an animal behaviorist with Ph. D. 400 miles
away who told me to "KEEP HIM SAFE" and read a book
on the fearful canine. I tried another trainer who tried to
use a nylon chock collar but it only made him worse.

I read hundreds of books,"CULTURE CLASH", "DOG
ARE FROM NEPTUNE", "THE OTHER END OF THE
LEASH", ETC looking for help. We finally went to Purdue
University Small Animal Behavior Clinic and they said he
had fear aggression, punishment would not work, use the
gentle leader and when out walking and he got stressed
have the people stop until he could get in control using
treats, and work on clicker training.

At that point I knew more about clicker training and using
the gentle leader than they did! Nothing was working--he
would not come when I called him and would run away when
I tried to catch him. I was afraid to walk him even in the
neighborhood as we had become that "mean dog and women who
hasn't trained her dog"

I went to four trainers in both Michigan and Florida who
were trainer/specialists in aggression and the last two
were so afraid of him they could not approach him. No one
said I should give up on him and kill him but they would
say "You have to realize he is dangerous and you are
responsible for him."

*(You got LUCKY, Linda... They coulda got Sunshine
DEAD on us. Damned near did... too.)

As last resort I tried the internet again--I had had on
going discussions with trainers from Triple Crown and Dr
Meister with out any help-and I found the ad to Doggy Do
Right and messaged Jerry to ask if this might help my dog.
He said solving the aggression problem was EZ but I could
not believe him even when I downloaded the manual.

The name of the method was right I was at my Wits End.
I had been working for 18 months!

Using the can sound three time he came, and still comes
from anywhere with the command-"comegoodboy" Next
I tried the can when walking him--when he saw a dog three
blocks away he went off-lunging and snapping-I used the
can sound and he looked at me like uhn?

I used it three more times and we got to the other dog-
-the looked at me wagging his tail--the other person
looked at me like why are shaking that can but just walked
on by.

When ever I try to explain about the sound people look at
me like "you must be out of your mind"

The results can make a believer!!!

Three weeks since beginning the Wits End Training
Manual program I walked him without the gentle leader
in a busy shopping area with many dogs.

He just seemed to not notice any one.

When people talked to him or ask his name he would
look at then and wag his tail and let then pet him.

I still can not believe the change in him--we can now
enjoy life out in public.

If I had not found the Wits End method I know there
was no hope for him and he would have hurt someone
Through all this he never growled at me, guarded his
toys or food or showed any sign of aggression with me.

My goal is to get the message out to all dog lovers that
dogs can be trained fast, easily and problems solved with
out force, pain, food or anything but sound and praise!!!!

I know most people would have given up on him a long time
ago but he was and is my life. Solving the problem was EZ
but only with the right approach-sound and praise.

I know because I tried everything else and nothing worked!!!

================================

From: Linda Daniel
To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:06 AM
Subject: Re: - Re: dog aggression

Thanks for writing--I would be happy to do almost anything
to get your approach out to dog owners as I know it would
save so many lives. I know at times I was so frustrated I
thought of giving up on Sunshine but of course I never would
have but many people would have. The world just does not
know you can train a dog in just a few sessions and actually
solve problems.

We will be here until late April and we really have no plans-
-just to enjoy the warmth and sun of Florida, so any time
you could meet us would be great. I drive so I would be
happy to come to you anytime anywhere!

We went to Celebration today and two little poodles got
right into his face and he just sat there--I GOT a little
scared but he handled it just fine.--a couple of times people
would ask his name and want to pet him and he just went
to them tail wagging and rolled over for them rub his tummy.

He really just is not concerned about people passing, even
those on rollerblades! I have always used a gentle leader
in public but he spent most of time rubbing his face on the
grass--today I used his collar and he was so much happier!!

Only problem is he will stop to smell and I can not get
stopped soon enough to keep the leash loose. He never
pulled ahead of me but when he gets into smelling I have
a hard time getting him going--at times I think he could
smell a blade of grass for 10 minutes.

I can never thank you enough for giving Sunshine back!!!!!

I wrote to Purdue and told them about him being able to
walk in a crowd with out the /gentle leader and not having
a problem with other people and dogs.

I told them their advice did not work. Their advice was
to use the gentle leader at all times and when he was
around people or dogs to have him sit and reward with
treats--one really good suggestions was to have people
coming toward us stop when he got stressed or aroused
and not move until we backed away-

- can you just see me yelling at people to stop on the street
until I get his attention with treats.

They also suggested the possibility of using drugs-prozac-
but thought he was too dangerous as the drug would make
him less fearful and then he might attack or become more
sure of himself and become dominate aggressive. Just had
to share their great advice with you but I am sure you have
heard it all--even I am becoming an expert on bad advice.

----------------------------------

("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
(((' (((-((('' ((((

|\ _.-'~~""'~`'~)
/, ~-,__,,,.'~ ,-;;--''
|,4) ./ ' ; ;/'
'-~~;'@ ( ; ;
_.--'' _.-_..' .;.'
(,_..----''' (,..--''

Meow

/\_/\
(='.'=)
(")_(")

/),,/)
( ' ; ') kiss me
(,,)-(,,)

/),,/)
(' ; ') kiss me here
(,,)-(,,)

/),,/)
( ; ' ) kiss me here
(,,)-(,,)

/),,/)
( ; ) kiss me here
(,,)-(,,)

/)
( * ) and KISS ME HERE!
(,,)-(,,)

/|/\
(.)(.)
( (_) )
> - <

|\ _,,,---,,_
/,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' Ahhh, THANK YOU!
'---''(_/--' `-'\_)

The Amazing Pussy Wizard <{@); ~ } >

<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>


Please DON'T BE The Amazing Pussy Wizard's PREY.

IT AIN'T PRETTY.

<(@}; ~ } >

Paul E. Schoen

unread,
Sep 13, 2006, 3:52:48 PM9/13/06
to

"Janet B" <ja...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> wrote in message
news:firfg2prailudikc0...@4ax.com...

> On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 01:00:25 -0400, "Paul E. Schoen"
> <pst...@smart.net>, clicked their heels and said:
>
>>
>>I will do some more work with Muttley using the small prong collar, and I
>>may try a larger one which may provide better control.
>
> The small links generally offer more "oomph", believe it or not.
>
When he was very distracted or intent on going somewhere, he pretty much
ignored the pinch collar and was mostly restrained by the choker chain and
my brute force. The pinch collar also came loose at one point, so I think a
larger, stronger version may be better. I'll get one and see how it works,
and then we can decide.

>>It may just prove
>>necessary to use such a fearsome contraption on my dog because he is so
>>literally and figuratively headstrong.
>
> Get over the fearsome stuff.
>
>> I will certainly still make sure his
>>attitude toward me is one more of respect and affection, rather than
>>fear.
>
> Pinch collars and training (asking for something and following
> through) have nothing to do with fear. If you're under that
> impression, we need to change that. Being a strong leader doesn't
> mean putting the fear of god into the dog.
>

Fear may not be the right word. It is probably more of an expectation of an
unpleasant correction when a command is not obeyed quickly, and praise when
it is. Right now, however, it seems that he is just too distracted by what
he wants to do, and not much concerned by my attempts at correction.

>>I think his overall lack of aggressiveness, and general calmness, show
>>that
>>he is not overly stressed, but fairly well adjusted. I hope he/we can
>>make
>>good progress over the next several weeks.
>
> I anticipate coming next week - how has the "sit on it" been going?
>

At home, Muttley is more relaxed, and I did a "sit-on-it", outside, for
more than half an hour while I read a magazine, and he just sat there or
laid down quietly. Fortunately there were no major distractions like
squirrels, deer, or the cat. He usually does not require much attention
when indoors, except when he is hungry or needs to go out.

I need to work more on heeling, especially. In general, I think he needs to
pay more attention to me, and ignore distractions.

Paul


Agility

unread,
Sep 16, 2006, 11:39:53 PM9/16/06
to
Paul E. Schoen wrote:
> Tonight I took Muttley to his first night of obedience training. I had
> thought he would do better, but the prospect of 20 or so dogs and people,
> and an array of irresistable smells, made him hard to control. After
> struggling for a while with his "choker" chain collar, we tried a "pinch"
> collar. He seemed to respond better with that, but still he was easily
> distracted. I'm sure the prongs did not really hurt him, and probably would
> do less damage than a tightly pulled choke collar, which often caused him
> to gasp as he struggled against it.

It's the first night of class and 20 dogs is a big class! He isn't
going to be perfectly well behaved the first night, if he was you
wouldn't need to be there. Instead of struggling with him, work with
him, not against him. In my classes the first thing we do with dogs is
the name game. You say your dogs name (once) and get him to look at you
(without corrections), jump up and down, clap your hands, squeak a toy
and the instance he looks at you say yes and toss him a treat. Doesn't
take more then a minute or so for most dogs to be staring at you.

>
> It's really his choice, after all, to struggle uncomfortably or allow me to
> follow him (mostly) where he wants to go on a loose leash. I would not want
> to cause him any extreme pain or damage, but he has a very tough muscular
> neck and a very willful disposition, and he needs to know when he needs to
> obey my commands, for his own good. It is not too much unlike Army and
> Marines boot camp, which can seem very harsh (and sometimes does exceed
> reasonable limits), but the end result is (usually) a well trained and
> effective member of a team with extraordinary capability.

Yes, he does need to learn to obey your commands, but he has to learn
them first and he's not going to be proficient at them at the first
class. Don't expect miracles here. Make it rewarding to go with you, to
follow you, to be with you, to pay attention to you and he will start
paying attention to you.


>
> I find it hard to be harsh with Muttley. When he is not distracted, he
> seems to listen well to even soft spoken commands (at times almost
> suggestions). Perhaps he does not fear me as he would someone who was a
> very strong disciplinarian, but in a way I also admire his strong spirit of
> independence, hopefully also coupled with respect and affection for me.

He shouldn't have to fear you, but respect you. And that will come with
time and more training. Working with distractions is hard, but it's
something you have work through. And simply correcting him over and
over again in the beginning stages of classes isn't going to help much.
Be a leader, not a dictator. Teach the dog, don't just correct the dog
and get frustrated because in the face of 20 dogs he is having trouble.
Upping the corrections in these early stages, imo, isn't really helping
much.

Lauralyn

Paul E. Schoen

unread,
Sep 17, 2006, 2:11:07 AM9/17/06
to

"Agility" <compu...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1158464393.0...@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> Paul E. Schoen wrote:
>> Tonight I took Muttley to his first night of obedience training. I had
>> thought he would do better, but the prospect of 20 or so dogs and
>> people,
>> and an array of irresistable smells, made him hard to control. After
>> struggling for a while with his "choker" chain collar, we tried a
>> "pinch"
>> collar. He seemed to respond better with that, but still he was easily
>> distracted. I'm sure the prongs did not really hurt him, and probably
>> would
>> do less damage than a tightly pulled choke collar, which often caused
>> him
>> to gasp as he struggled against it.
>
> It's the first night of class and 20 dogs is a big class! He isn't
> going to be perfectly well behaved the first night, if he was you
> wouldn't need to be there. Instead of struggling with him, work with
> him, not against him. In my classes the first thing we do with dogs is
> the name game. You say your dogs name (once) and get him to look at you
> (without corrections), jump up and down, clap your hands, squeak a toy
> and the instance he looks at you say yes and toss him a treat. Doesn't
> take more then a minute or so for most dogs to be staring at you.
>
That seems like a good idea. He certainly responds to his name here at home
and in other less distracting situations. He also knows and usually
responds to the commands "sit" and "heel". However, at the obedience class,
he needed to be physically restrained so he would not disturb the other
dogs and people. Maybe a period of socialization at the beginning might be
helpful, to allow the dogs to meet each other and get used to their scents.
It is also difficult when the class is outdoors at the SPCA where there are
lots of other scents to investigate. I think it will be better with a
properly sized pinch prong collar. My first try with it here at home seemed
to work well, and he did not pull nearly as hard, so there should be less
chance of damage, and he may be motivated to pay more attention to me.

>>
>> It's really his choice, after all, to struggle uncomfortably or allow me
>> to
>> follow him (mostly) where he wants to go on a loose leash. I would not
>> want
>> to cause him any extreme pain or damage, but he has a very tough
>> muscular
>> neck and a very willful disposition, and he needs to know when he needs
>> to
>> obey my commands, for his own good. It is not too much unlike Army and
>> Marines boot camp, which can seem very harsh (and sometimes does exceed
>> reasonable limits), but the end result is (usually) a well trained and
>> effective member of a team with extraordinary capability.
>
> Yes, he does need to learn to obey your commands, but he has to learn
> them first and he's not going to be proficient at them at the first
> class. Don't expect miracles here. Make it rewarding to go with you, to
> follow you, to be with you, to pay attention to you and he will start
> paying attention to you.

He seems to enjoy being with me and going for walks or rides, but in
general he is rather aloof and independent. He likes to be petted and
enjoys some roughhouse play, but usually he is content to just relax when
he is indoors or sitting by my side outdoors. When he goes for a walk, he
is intent on following his nose, and is rather indifferent to me petting
him or talking to him. Riding in the car he is happy to sit in the
passenger seat and poke his nose out the window, and sometimes he just
curls up there or on the floor. When I go to bed, he likes to snuggle next
to me for a while, but then prefers to sleep on his dog bed, either
upstairs near me, or downstairs. If I sleep too long, he will jump into bed
and let me know he needs to go out or needs food.


>>
>> I find it hard to be harsh with Muttley. When he is not distracted, he
>> seems to listen well to even soft spoken commands (at times almost
>> suggestions). Perhaps he does not fear me as he would someone who was a
>> very strong disciplinarian, but in a way I also admire his strong spirit
>> of
>> independence, hopefully also coupled with respect and affection for me.
>
> He shouldn't have to fear you, but respect you. And that will come with
> time and more training. Working with distractions is hard, but it's
> something you have work through. And simply correcting him over and
> over again in the beginning stages of classes isn't going to help much.
> Be a leader, not a dictator. Teach the dog, don't just correct the dog
> and get frustrated because in the face of 20 dogs he is having trouble.
> Upping the corrections in these early stages, imo, isn't really helping
> much.
>
> Lauralyn
>

I try to be reasonable in my corrections, but I have also heard that it is
important to make sure the dog does as instructed, with a single command,
and promptly. When he is constantly struggling to go every which way, about
all I can do is pull tightly on his choker collar held closely, and then he
is just struggling to breathe. Sharp tugs did not seem to work. The new
large prong collar really seems to be effective, and I hope to work with
him in the next couple of days before his next class. It was frustrating to
need every bit of my strength to restrain him, but I had no choice. Now I
have seen some real improvement, with more responsive control, and he
hardly seemed to pull at all. I think he knows that this collar will be
uncomfortable if he resists too much, or perhaps it is just that it is a
new sensation. Eventually I hope he will be easier to control without need
for such appliances.

Thanks for your helpful input.

Paul


Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Foren...@hotmail.com

unread,
Sep 18, 2006, 12:28:20 AM9/18/06
to
HOWEDY paulie,

"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote in message
news:450ce709$0$21533$ecde...@news.coretel.net...


>
> "Agility" <compu...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1158464393.0...@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> Paul E. Schoen wrote:
>>> Tonight I took Muttley to his first night of obedience training.

With janet boss:

Janet B wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 14:44:14 -0500, Janet B
> <j...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com>, clicked their heels and said:
> > Since you quoted me repeatedly, where does it say I beat dogs, choke
> > dogs, scream at dogs, etc? Thanks for your clarification.
.
> responding to my own post, I had to go back and look at the original
> post, to remind myself what "we" are all accused of doing:
>
> "screaming, choking, shocking, pinching, beating the living crap
> out of your dogs"
>
> Scream? no
>
> Choke? no
>
> Shock? e-collars are a lot more sophisticated than that
>
> Pinch? if you want to classify a momentary discomfort by a prong
> collar, go ahead, but unless you have first hand experience with
> one, your opinion means nothing
>
> Beat the living crap out of? hardly - no hitting exists

"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction" --Janet Boss

"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828...@mb-m18.aol.com...

> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
> Janet Boss
>
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1...@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...

> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916...@mb-m17.aol.com...
> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.

An INSENSITIVE DOG???

> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.

"Reliable Punishment Cycles, Different Thresholds To Pain
And Punishment, High Tolerance For Correction, Escalation
Of Correction To A Level Where The Dog Yelps When You Punish
Him, Thus Making The Experience One Which The Dog Will Want
To Avoid In The Future," grant teeboon, RAAF.

"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know Jack
Wouldn't Have Done It If He Thought Solo Couldn't
Take It. I Still Crate Him Because Otherwise I Fear
He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.

captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK" Makes A
ResoundingSound Distraction: "When You Chuck The Dog
The Sound Will Travel Up The Mandible To The Ears And
Give A Popping Sound To The Dog."

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

On 6 Feb 2006 17:41:08 GMT, Mary Healey <mhhea...@iastate.edu>,


clicked their heels and said:

> Does that include tone of voice? Some tools are easier
> to ban than others.

yes - screaming banshees are told to shut up! And I
always have to remind spouses that they may NOT do the
"honey - you're supposed to be doing it like THIS"......
--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to
it. When he barks, use the line for a correction.-
if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar," Lynn K.

"Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.

<except when it is>

"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs. It's a safety
necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

"Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.

<except when it is>

"So what? Whoever said that it's right to
always not confront? We sure can try, but
a dog who knows a command and growls when
given it is certainly being confrontational".
You can't simply walk away and pretend it
didn't happen or leave it for later work in
every situation." Lynn K.

--------------------

"Chin CHUCK absolutely doesn't mean slap,"
professora gingold.

"BethF" <b...@NOT-SO-bad-dawgs-in-ak.com>
wrote in message
news:v4r8kkf...@corp.supernews.com...

Kyle, FWIW, i thought it was pretty funny,
and i often call my little dog the turd, because
he is one. Some folks think its HORRRIBLE i
would insult my dog like that so i guess its just a
matter of personality.

Kyle, the best way to teach him to stay away is to
step on him once. Seriously.

"Whatever Motivates The Dog, But I Daresay Most
Of The Dogs I Have In Classes Just Aren't That
Interested In Praise."

"BethF" <d...@alaska.com> wrote in message
news:uohnj3r...@corp.supernews.com...

Maybe that's what we should do - hold back the dobie
girl so that Izzy can put Simon in his place.

"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness," mustang sally.

"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me.
I volunteered as assistant to the euthanasia
tech at our local shelter for a while, and
I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.

This however has nothing at all to do with
responsible breeders, because responsible
breeders don't contribute to that problem,"
Mustang Sally.

-----------------------

> > cobbled them together,

"Neatly," and "Smartly."

> > and a fake signature.

"sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.

That so?

> > is downright meaningless.

Here's yours:

See?

>>> I had thought he would do better, but the prospect of 20


>>> or so dogs and people, and an array of irresistable smells,
>>> made him hard to control.

Perhaps you was usin the wrong sized PRONG, eh paulie?

>>> After struggling for a while with his "choker" chain collar,

Oh, well then, THAT'S HOWE COME your dog wasn't payin
you no neverdoGdameneDmind, eh paulie?

>>> we tried a "pinch" collar.

Of curse.

>>> He seemed to respond better with that,

Yeah. That's on accHOWENT of the PRONGS remind
the dog of his mommas teeth in his throat <{} : ~ ) >

>>> but still he was easily distracted.

Naaah?

>>> I'm sure the prongs did not really hurt him,

Of curse not.

>>> and probably would do less damage than a tightly pulled choke collar,

Right. Dogs PREFER pronged and spiked to slip choked.

>>> which often caused him to gasp as he struggled against it.

Naaah?

>> It's the first night of class and 20 dogs is a big class!

That's IRRELEVENT.

>> He isn't going to be perfectly well behaved the first night,

Or ANY night.

>> if he was you wouldn't need to be there.

INDEEDY. Your training methods CAUSE these problems.

>> Instead of struggling with him,

paulie don't mind strugglin:

"I hope to be able to give Muttley to a new owner who can
invest the needed time and (tough) love required."

Yeah. If jerkin an chokin your dog is LOVE no WOnder
HOWE COME you pathetic mental cases FEAR SEX so.

"It becomes increasingly hard for me to consider giving
him to someone else, as I continue to bond with him and
see his progress and experience his affection for me."

That's SUBMISSIVE behavior, not AFFECTION, paulie:

"After struggling for a while with his "choker" chain collar,
we tried a "pinch" collar. He seemed to respond better with
that, but still he was easily distracted. I'm sure the prongs
did not really hurt him, and probably would do less damage
than a tightly pulled choke collar, which often caused him
to gasp as he struggled against it.

It's really his choice, after all, to struggle uncomfortably"

He WOULDN'T "STRUGLE UNCOMFORTABLY" if
YOU DIDN'T CHOKE HIM, paulie. Rationalizin that "It's
HIS choice" is OBSCENE, paulie. It smacks of "SHE MADE
ME BEAT HER" mentality, paulie <{) : ~ ( >

"or allow me to follow him (mostly) where
he wants to go on a loose leash."

Well paulie, if you been PAYIN ATTENTION to the ces you'd
KNOW that LEADERSHIP AIN'T NEVER come from HOWETA
FOLLOWIN your dog on "the walk".

"I would not want to cause him any extreme pain or damage,
but he has a very tough muscular neck and a very willful
disposition, and he needs to know when he needs to obey
my commands,"

To quote the ces, you gotta "MASTER THE WALK," paulie <{}; ~ ) >

"for his own good."

OtherWIZE you'll be FORCED to HURT him till he does.

"It is not too much unlike Army and Marines boot camp,"

That so, paulie? Was you a D.I., paulie? Do you know
HOWE the government converts boys into men in 90
days, paulie? They DON'T JERK an CHOKE an SHOCK
their trainees, paulie, they CONDITION them to THRIVE
under duress: "More Sweat In Trainin, Less Blood In
Combat" <{): ~ ) >

THEY DON' T SAY "Uncle Sam Wants To CHOKE YOU".

"which can seem very harsh"

Looks like you've DISCREDITED the EXXXPERTS:

Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last Student Demonstrated At
UofOH, That Rehabilitation Of Hyperactive Dogs Can
Easily And Readily Be Done Using TLC. Tender Loving
Care Is At The Root Of The Scientific Management Of
Doggys. <{) ; ~ ) >

"...all the highest nervous activity, as it manifests
itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a continual
change of these three fundamental processes --

excitation, inhibition and disinhibition," Ivan P. Pavlov

"Postitive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement. IOW,
emotions, not outside rewards, are what
reinforces any behavior," Ivan Pavlov.

"All animals learn best through play." -- Konrad Lorenz

"It is NO WONDER that the marked changes in
deviant behavior of children can be achieved
through brief, simple educative routines with
their mothers which modify the mother's social
behaviors shaping the child (Whaler, 1966). Some
clinics have reported ELIMINATION ofthe need for
child THERAPY through changing the clinical emphasis
from clinical to parental HANDLING of the child
(Szrynski 1965).

A large number of cases improved sufficiently after
preliminary contact with parents that NO treatment
of children was required, and almost ALL cases
SHOWE a remarkably shortened period for therapy.
Quite severe cases of anorexia nervosa have been
treated in own to five months by simply REPLACING
the parents temporarily with EFFUSIVELY LOVING
SUBSTITUTES (Groen, 1966)."

The Methods, Principles And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change,
Or They'd Not Be Scientific
And Could Not Obtain
Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective, Safe Results
For All Handler's And All Critters,
And ALL Behaviors
In ALL FIELDS And ALL UTILITIES,
ALL OVER The Whole Wild World,
NEARLY INSTANTLY,

As Taught In Your FREE Copy Of The Sincerely Incredibly
Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing


GRAND
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE
WWW Wits'End Dog, Child, Kat And Horse Training Method Manual

<{} ; ~ ) >

A DOG Is A Dog;
As A KAT Is A KAT;
As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
As A HORSE Is A HORSE;
As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES;
As A Mass Murderer Is A Mass Murderer.

ALL Critters Only Respond In
PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them.

You GET The Critter You TRAINED

In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
SAME SAME SAME SAME,
For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.

Damn The Descartean War of "Nature Vs Nurture."
We Teach By HOWER Words And Actions
And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.

ALL Temperament And Behavior Problems Are CAUSED BY
MISHANDLING

"(and sometimes does exceed reasonable limits),"

You mean it's INSANE, paulie?

"but the end result is (usually)"

INCONSISTENT, paulie.

PUNISHMENT ALWAYS DERANGES BEHAVIOR:

NO PUNISHMENT.

Fondly, Dr. Von

"a well trained and effective member of a team"

You mean a PARTNER, paulie? HOWE COME
would you wanna work with a PARTNER who
CHOKES you and won't let you sniff other doggys?

" with extraordinary capability."

Like the S.A.R. dogs who COULDN'T FIND Jessica
Lunsford 300' from where she was abducted ON FOOT?

Or that 12 y.o. boy scout lost in Utah? FOUR DAYS
the kid was lost from a KNOWN STARTING POINT.

HOWE COME do you suppHOWES those "well trained
and effective member of a team" FAILED to WORK?

HOWE COME two (2) S.A.R. dogs lookin for a
suspected murdered 2 y.o. child GAVE FALSE
ALERTS?

HOWE COME these HIGHLY TRAINED DOGS FAIL?:

INDEEDY. See "Clicker Project FIZZLES" by
lying frosty dahl. Clicker trainin INCREASES
anxiHOWESNESS and DISTRACTS dogs
from LEARNING the context of their lessons.
Dogs are PROVOKED, not "learn", to throw
random unthinking meaningless behaviors
to elicit a BRIBE, reducing the "trainer" to
the social status level of a SLOP BUCKET:

Here's HOWER SUCCESSFUL SAR trainer
lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn:


From: Lynn K. (java...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Free Feeding (Was Re: Repeating Commands)
Date: 2001-07-17 21:59:53 PST


dogstar...@aol.com (DogStar716) wrote in message


<news:20010717101836...@ng-mi1.aol.com>...


> For example, if one was to use the dogs regular
> kibble as a motivator in class, the dog will probably
> not be as motivated as he would be if a different type
> of treat was offered (say, a piece of hotdog).


Not necessarily. Remember that there is value added
to the treat by virtue of getting it from the handler as a
reward.

That's the reason I handfed Java for a week.


To add value to the food.


It isn't just another piece of kibble when it
comes from Mom as a reward.


Lynn K.


From: Lynn K. (java...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Kali gets her CDX!
Date: 2003-10-26 13:49:37 PST

"KrisHur" <kris_br...@hotmail.com> wrote in message


<news:vpnufui...@corp.supernews.com>...> THANKS!
You deserve it! You have my empathy on the heeling
problem. 2 of 29 qualified in Open A & B this morning
at Sacramento - ring fouled overnight by conformation
people exercising their dogs.

A Borzoi vomited on the spot, a Rottie peed on it, and
almost every other dog (including Java) dropped their
nose to the spot and started tracking.


ARRRGH!


Lynn K.


BWEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!

"Just as he thinks my decision not to put a
dog that faded in the heat into active SAR
duty was somehow questionable.

My decision to not continue with an unmotivated
dog and potentially risk lives is hardly something
I view as a failure."

So, does lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn's S.A.R. dog
Java BURN HOWET in the heat on accHOWENT of he's
SO HIGHLY MOTIVATED or is he UNTRAINED?

IMBECILES!

Just wipe you skeevy bodies with a pork
chop pryor to trainin and your dog will
follow you to the next garbage can or
carcass on the side of the road.

>> work with him, not against him.

lauralyn aka computype2 means don't jerk an choke him?

>> In my classes

She's a FRAUD, paulie. And a liar, like your "trainer," janet boss.

>> the first thing we do with dogs is the name game.

The FIRST thing The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply


Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard
teaches HIS 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog, Child, Kat And

Horse Training Method Manual Students is HOWE to install the
come command as a 100% CONSISTENTLY RELIABLE COME
COMMAND as a CONDITIONAL REFLEX <{) : ~ ) >

>> You say your dogs name (once) and get him to look at you
>> (without corrections), jump up and down, clap your hands,
>> squeak a toy and the instance he looks at you say yes and
>> toss him a treat.

That's SHEER IDIOCY.

>> Doesn't take more then a minute or so for most dogs to be staring at you.

INDEED?

Not lookin at YOU, they're LOOKIN FOR A TREAT:

"Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVER LEARNING THEORY
model involves the USE OF PUNISHMENT. Of curse,
Skinner has never to my knowledge, demonstrated
HOWE we escape the phenomenon that an expected
reward not received is experienced as a punishment
and can produce extensive and persistent aggression
(Azrin et al, 1966)."

"The IMBECILITY of some of the claims for operant
technique simply take the breath away. Lovas et al
(1966) report a standard contingent reward/punishment
procedure developing imitative speech in two severly
disturbed non verbal schizophrenic boys. After twenty-
six days the boys are reported to have been learning
new words with alacrity. HOWEver, when REWARDS were
moved to a delayed contingency the behavior and learning
immediately deteriorated."

> That seems like a good idea.

Yeah. But you're a imbecile, paulie <{): ~ ( >

"Ama...@DCFWatch.com" wrote:

---------------

> He certainly responds to his name here at home

When you bribe him.

> and in other less distracting situations.

When he wants to.

> He also knows and usually responds to the commands "sit" and "heel".

Yeah. Dogs LIKE to DO STUFF.

> However, at the obedience class,

You mean the submissiveness class.

> he needed to be physically restrained

You mean you had to CHOKE him.

> so he would not disturb the other dogs and people.

On accHOWENT of you can't TRAIN him.

> Maybe a period of socialization at the beginning might be
> helpful, to allow the dogs to meet each other and get used
> to their scents.

You gotta ENROLL in PUPPY CLASS, paulie.

> It is also difficult when the class is outdoors at the SPCA
> where there are lots of other scents to investigate.

That's ABSURD.

> I think it will be better with a properly sized pinch prong collar.

That's INSANE.

> My first try with it here at home seemed to work well,

INDEED?

> and he did not pull nearly as hard,

So you didn't have to CHOKE HIM MUCH, paulie?

> so there should be less chance of damage,

You mean to his throat and spine, paulie?

> and he may be motivated to pay more attention to me.

On accHOWENT of HE LOVES YOU, paulie?

>>> It's really his choice, after all, to struggle uncomfortably
>>> or allow me to follow him (mostly) where he wants to go
>>> on a loose leash. I would not want to cause him any extreme
>>> pain or damage, but he has a very tough muscular neck and
>>> a very willful disposition, and he needs to know when he
>>> needs to obey my commands, for his own good. It is not too
>>> much unlike Army and Marines boot camp, which can seem
>>> very harsh (and sometimes does exceed reasonable limits),
>>> but the end result is (usually) a well trained and effective
>>> member of a team with extraordinary capability.

BWEEEEAAAAAHAHHAHAAAA!!!

>> Yes, he does need to learn to obey your commands, but he has
>> to learn them first and he's not going to be proficient at them at
>> the first class. Don't expect miracles here.

You mean LIKE THIS?:

From: Linda
To: Jerry Howe

Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: dog aggression - Today Seemed Like A Miracle -
WELCOME TO WITS' END DOG TRAINING!

Will try it today and post how well this system works.
We went to a dog class that I had enrolled in for
resocialization--getting him to not lunge and try to
attack every dog he sees, we were at the third class
and I forgot the Halti but he was relaxed and had no
problem with any of the seven dogs-


-in the past he would shake and after a little while
turn away from the dogs and look at the wall. Saturday
he wanted to play with the dogs--he actually pulled
toward the dogs- kinda jumped around like he use to do
before he became aggressive- when he got close to another
dog.


Teacher was impressed with him but thought it was from
her class--I didn't tell her anything different-she had
tried but it sure was not working.


Today on our walk a dog went by and he alerted but did
not move toward the dog and when I called him he actually
came with his tail wagging and forget about the dog.


I have told everyone I see about your dog training-
-all my friends and neighbors know I have been so worried
and frustrated with Sunshine's behavior-infact some would
turn around and go the other way so as not to get close to us.


If people knew how easy it could be to get a dog to come
and listen to you there would be a lot less dogs in shelters.


I know I didn't know what to do and was afraid I would have
to kill him if he bite someone even though I loved him so much.

To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: dog aggression - Today Seemed Like A Miracle -
WELCOME TO WITS' END DOG TRAINING!

Sunshine is still acting like a new dog!


Saw a dog today and "good boy-" worked along with calling him-
came the first time every time. Not even a sound out of him.


Think it is hard for him but he never even seemed to think
about going off-reacting.


The word come has no affect on him just the phrase-
-Sunshine come goodboy.
=========

>> Make it rewarding to go with you,

THAT'S SHEER IDIOCY:

"Postitive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement. IOW,
emotions, not outside rewards, are what
reinforces any behavior," Ivan Pavlov.

>> to follow you, to be with you, to pay attention to you
>> and he will start paying attention to you.

Yeah. For a COOKIE.

> He seems to enjoy being with me and going for walks or rides,

Despite that you jerk an choke him.

> but in general he is rather aloof and independent.

On accHOWENT of you jerk an choke him.

> He likes to be petted and enjoys some roughhouse play,
> but usually he is content to just relax when he is indoors
> or sitting by my side outdoors.

But you WANT to HURT him anyHOWE.

> When he goes for a walk, he

HE CHOKES, paulie. EVERY TIME.

> is intent on following his nose,

On accHOWENT of you ain't important to him.

> and is rather indifferent to me petting him or talking to him.

On accHOWENT of YOU HURT HIM, paulie.

> Riding in the car he is happy to sit in the passenger seat
> and poke his nose out the window, and sometimes he just
> curls up there or on the floor. When I go to bed, he likes
> to snuggle next to me for a while, but then prefers to sleep
> on his dog bed, either upstairs near me, or downstairs.

You can lock him in a crate at the foot of your bed, paulie.

> If I sleep too long, he will jump into bed and let me know
> he needs to go out or needs food.

You mean he's ALMOST PERFECT, paulie?