Making things better (outside the US)
roo
done to tackle problems with dog-human relationships, like neglect of dogs
and people getting bitten. We've heard from people within the US, and so far
they don't seem to think that regulations are desirable.
So what about you guys from Australia, Canada, and Europe? Below is a
summary of suggestions. How far do you think they are feasible, for the
country you live in, from your own local knowledge? Do you have any more
suggestions as to what is needed/would work in your country?Your answers
will be helpful for anyone campaigning to try and make things better, eg for
Brits trying to change the existing UK regulations.
1) Dog breeders should use bite inhibition techniques so they sell pups that
are less likely to bite people.
2) Kids need training on how to behave with dogs, at school, as part of the
curriculum, and from parents.
3) So parents and teachers need education too (so it's ongoing and not just
a one-off visit from an animal welfare organization).
4) Potential dog owners need inexpensive educational resources to learn
about pups' needs before they obtain them, plus they need ongoing access to
resources to help in raising them.
5) No 'stupid teens and thug/druggies' should be allowed a dog for
'protection'.
6) All novice dog owners should attend basic obedience and animal care
classes.
7) Dog ownership is only permitted with a licence, and the licence fee is
used for educational resources. Licenses are only granted if owners commit
themselves to responsible dog ownership, eg not letting dog bark all day in
yard/garden unattended, or run loose in traffic, or produce unwanted
litters.
8) Free poop-picking-up-bags should be located in public parks, so owners
have no excuse not to pick up poop.
9) What can be done about wildlife protection? (A key issue in Australia and
Scandinavia)
--------------
PS Suggestions 1-6 are adapted from an article by a respected US author
Thanks for all your thoughts on this.
Alikat
David & Janette Sweeney
"roo" <r...@kanga.net> wrote in message
news:9f4o16$oe9$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Hi there, this is for people outside the US, to ask what you think can be
> done to tackle problems with dog-human relationships, like neglect of dogs
> and people getting bitten. We've heard from people within the US, and so
far
> they don't seem to think that regulations are desirable.
>
> So what about you guys from Australia, Canada, and Europe? Below is a
> summary of suggestions. How far do you think they are feasible, for the
> country you live in, from your own local knowledge? Do you have any more
> suggestions as to what is needed/would work in your country?Your answers
> will be helpful for anyone campaigning to try and make things better, eg
for
> Brits trying to change the existing UK regulations.
>
> 1) Dog breeders should use bite inhibition techniques so they sell pups
that
> are less likely to bite people.
and educate new owners, on dog behaviour
>
> 2) Kids need training on how to behave with dogs, at school, as part of
the
> curriculum, and from parents.
very good point this one, especially how to approach a dog and if attacked
what to do, ie: don't run drop to the ground cover your ears and pull into a
tight ball.
>
> 3) So parents and teachers need education too (so it's ongoing and not
just
> a one-off visit from an animal welfare organization).
true dog clubs could bring pooches of different breeds along and educate the
kids.
>
> 4) Potential dog owners need inexpensive educational resources to learn
> about pups' needs before they obtain them, plus they need ongoing access
to
> resources to help in raising them.
just as police and secureity doggies need special training, I think K9
parential classes would be good.
>
> 5) No 'stupid teens and thug/druggies' should be allowed a dog for
> 'protection'.
>
> 6) All novice dog owners should attend basic obedience and animal care
> classes.
>
> 7) Dog ownership is only permitted with a licence, and the licence fee is
> used for educational resources. Licenses are only granted if owners commit
> themselves to responsible dog ownership, eg not letting dog bark all day
in
> yard/garden unattended, or run loose in traffic, or produce unwanted
> litters.
good yes like it.
>
> 8) Free poop-picking-up-bags should be located in public parks, so owners
> have no excuse not to pick up poop.
could be a problem with vandals and firebugs, but a good idea anyway, also
offlead parks for dogs that have complted basic obediance.
>
> 9) What can be done about wildlife protection? (A key issue in Australia
and
> Scandinavia)
> --------------
> PS Suggestions 1-6 are adapted from an article by a respected US author
>
> Thanks for all your thoughts on this.
>
> Alikat
>
> all good points Alikat lets see if we get some good posts.Dave
Lutie Sheridan
available in most places that dogs are allowed off the lead - on the dog
beach for example. It does help with the poo problem - also you'll find
that a lot of the other people who own dogs help by carrying extra bags and
asking "Do you need a bag for that" to the person whose dog has just pooed.
Of course this wont help with those that are determined not to care - but
usually people that care enough to bring their dogs down to the beach can be
convinced to care enough to pick up the poo - especially since there is a
$100 fine for leaving it there. We also have dog licensing laws here - where
you have to licence your dog, and sign a form at the time saying you have
adequate fencing etc. I thought that was fairly standard all over the
world. A ranger can give an on the spot fine for a dog not wearing it's
tags - even if it is on a leash. Dogs that are considered 'dangerous' by
the council (because of complaints) have to wear a special type of collar to
let people know they are dangerous, and are not allowed off lead in public.
There are fairly hefty fines for a 'dangerous dog' not wearing it's collar,
and major ones for a dangerous dog off lead.
I think the responsibility for dog control rests with the dog owners and dog
breeders myself - but the council certainly does everything it can here. I
don't think public schools should be asked to teach dog related subjects -
but I quite like the idea of the council holding classes before it will
issue a licence, and not granting a licence under certain circumstance.
I can see how it can be argued that owning a dog is a 'basic right' (which I
disagree with) and that what I am suggesting leans too much towards 'a
police state' where the Govt. controls who can and cannot own dogs but I am
afraid I really do believe that some people should not own dogs - for the
sake of the dogs and the public at large.
Lutie
"roo" <r...@kanga.net> wrote in message
news:9f4o16$oe9$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
Paul B
great in theory but people who aren't interested in dogs aren't going to be
interested in learning about how to react in front of a dog etc.
Unfortunately so many people buy pups for their kids who lose interest and
the dog is soon neglected (and never trained).
Here in NZ all dogs have to be registered each year and must wear a collar
with a coloured disc attached, the disc has a number on it which identifies
the dog and who owns it. Thus any wandering dog can be identified and the
owners contacted and fined if they are deemed to be irresponsable. To own
more than one dog here you must apply to the council who inspect your
property making sure it is fully fenced and suitable in other ways and you
must obtain all immediate neighbours permission in writing.
There are few real restrictions on taking dogs in public places here,
legally they must be on a leash in all public areas except the numerous ( in
Auckland anyway) off leash parks and areas. But in reality most dog walkers
let their dogs off leash at any public park, usually considerately although
the vast amounts of dog poo left about makes me wonder how long it will be
before the councils really crack down.
Dogs are banned from most beaches throughout the summer months (in some
areas they are allowed on after 7pm) but are permitted on the beaches in
winter as long as they are under control (ie off leash is permitted).
Dogs are very popular here and no one thinks twice about seeing one
anywhere.
However irresponsable dog ownership is as bad here as probably anywhere and
the SPCA, Humane Society and the dog pounds are full of neglected, lost,
abandoned and unclaimed dogs. I'm sure dogs here are just as barky, bitey
and unruly as anywhere.
There is no real solution. There will always be people who for whatever
reason end up abusing or neglecting their pets. Probably educating children
about how animals really feel and what care they really need is the place to
start as adults more often than not have preconcieved ideas about how to
treat and deal with dogs for better or worse.
Paul
"David & Janette Sweeney" <swee...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:KbmR6.28946$hV3....@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
Cindy
Lutie Sheridan <lu...@odyssey.apana.org.au> wrote:
>In Fremantle, where I live, in Western Australia, free poo bags are
>available in most places that dogs are allowed off the lead - on the dog
>beach for example.
These bags (blue & baby powder scented *roll of eyes*) are available
in many of the parks here in Southern California as well. My favorite
is the signage, though. In toney, well-to-do areas, the signs say
"Please clean up dog nuisances". In "rougher" areas you get a graphic
sign: dog hunched to poop, the poop, and a hand coming down to clean it.
--Cindy
Marilyn
> done to tackle problems with dog-human relationships, like neglect of dogs
> and people getting bitten. We've heard from people within the US, and so
far
> they don't seem to think that regulations are desirable.
>
> So what about you guys from Australia, Canada, and Europe? Below is a
> summary of suggestions. How far do you think they are feasible, for the
> country you live in, from your own local knowledge? Do you have any more
> suggestions as to what is needed/would work in your country?Your answers
> will be helpful for anyone campaigning to try and make things better, eg
for
> Brits trying to change the existing UK regulations.
>
> 1) Dog breeders should use bite inhibition techniques so they sell pups
that
> are less likely to bite people.
and temperament test pups - ascertain suitability etc.
and only be allowed to sell puppies bred by their own dog/s
and offer written puppy development (behaviour) guide
and offer written pre-school training advice
and try to insist all puppies go on to attend a good puppy socialisation
group
and allow all clients access, to see and socialise with their chosen pup
from 3 weeks old
and allow all clients to visit pups with mother at stages up to 49 days
and people socialise pups
and design pup's accomodation to include clearly defined sleep/play/eating
areas
and to be checked for all the above (plus) in order to be awarded a 'good
breeder certificatation'.
>
> 2) Kids need training on how to behave with dogs, at school, as part of
the
> curriculum, and from parents.
Absolutely!
>
> 3) So parents and teachers need education too (so it's ongoing and not
just
> a one-off visit from an animal welfare organization).
Absolutely!
>
> 4) Potential dog owners need inexpensive educational resources to learn
> about pups' needs before they obtain them, plus they need ongoing access
to
> resources to help in raising them.
Wonderful things..... video recorders and computers
>
> 5) No 'stupid teens and thug/druggies' should be allowed a dog for
> 'protection'.
Yeah, and the rest .... agreed, but not so easy :-(
>
> 6) All novice dog owners should attend basic obedience and animal care
> classes.
Yep
>
> 7) Dog ownership is only permitted with a licence, and the licence fee is
> used for educational resources. Licenses are only granted if owners commit
> themselves to responsible dog ownership, eg not letting dog bark all day
in
> yard/garden unattended, or run loose in traffic, or produce unwanted
> litters.
Yep, a licence - with a course and test first - like if we wanna drive a car
:-)
> 8) Free poop-picking-up-bags should be located in public parks, so owners
> have no excuse not to pick up poop.
Yep. Our local warden gives out various goodies to dog training clubs.
> 9) What can be done about wildlife protection? (A key issue in Australia
and
> Scandinavia)
> --------------
> PS Suggestions 1-6 are adapted from an article by a respected US author
>
> Thanks for all your thoughts on this.
>
> Alikat
Great Post Alikat :-)
Best regards,
Marilyn
>
>
Nancy Holmes or Nelson Ruffin
Marilyn <marilyn...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3b166...@news1.vip.uk.com...
snip
> and allow all clients access, to see and socialise with their chosen pup
> from 3 weeks old
nope no way anyone and everyone would get to handle pups at this age - clean
approved visitors only who know what they are doing - and no one from an
area with a parvo breakout!
Nancy
Alison
I'd like to see all dogs microchipped and licensed, all potential owners
and homes checked by the local authorities, a law against leaving a dog
alone all day and education in schools.
Our area( middx) had a big problem with dog mess on the pavements. The
council provided dog waste bins in the parks and on grass verges (but not
bags) and put notices up saying people will be fined if they don't clear up
after their dog. The situation has improved but there are always some people
who will not co-operate.
Alison
roo <r...@kanga.net> wrote in message
news:9f4o16$oe9$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
Helle Haugenes
[..]
>So what about you guys from Australia, Canada, and Europe? Below is a
>summary of suggestions. How far do you think they are feasible, for the
>country you live in, from your own local knowledge? Do you have any more
>suggestions as to what is needed/would work in your country?Your answers
>will be helpful for anyone campaigning to try and make things better, eg for
>Brits trying to change the existing UK regulations.
Will you answer your own message too? :-)
>1) Dog breeders should use bite inhibition techniques so they sell pups that
>are less likely to bite people.
IMO breeders should be required to do whatever possible to deliver
well-adjusted puppies to the new owners. Good breeders already do
this, but a lot of breeders don't. To make such a regulation will be
impossible, but perhaps each breed club could decide on and publish a
set of guidelines for each breed?
>2) Kids need training on how to behave with dogs, at school, as part of the
>curriculum, and from parents.
We can't expect parents to take the responsibility, other than to
teach children respect for all life. Same goes for schools, really,
children need to be taught about animals in general (respect, welfare,
how to behave around them, and where the milk comes from :-) But, dogs
specifically is more than we can expect.
>3) So parents and teachers need education too (so it's ongoing and not just
>a one-off visit from an animal welfare organization).
Same as in 2)
>4) Potential dog owners need inexpensive educational resources to learn
>about pups' needs before they obtain them, plus they need ongoing access to
>resources to help in raising them.
Absolutely. Apart from the breeder and breed clubs, little is done to
educate new owners before they get the puppy. Before-you-get-the-puppy
classes would really be great if there was some way to let people know
about them in time. Breeder and breed club?
As for help raising the puppy, the breeders plays a big part and it's
free. There are a few professional training 'institutions' which are
quite expensive. The majority of classes, though, are offered by the
local dog clubs. These instructors work for free and the classes are
quite affordable. The clubs usually have socialiasation evenings as
well. However, people who lives in the more rural areas don't have a
lot of offers.
>5) No 'stupid teens and thug/druggies' should be allowed a dog for
>'protection'.
Hm.. how can this be controlled? I don't see how it can be done, and
frankly, who is to decide who are 'stupid teens and thug/druggies'?
Again, a big part of the responsibility to select the right buyers is
on the breeder, but there's only so much a breeder can do.
>6) All novice dog owners should attend basic obedience and animal care
>classes.
This would be great, but hardly achievable. Perhaps the price of the
puppy could include these classes? I know that a re-homing
organization in town is doing this. The new owners pay like Ł200 for
the dog, and vet check-up, a everyday obedience book and a basic
obedience class is included (Btw the price for a pure-bred puppy is
about Ł500-800).
>7) Dog ownership is only permitted with a licence, and the licence fee is
>used for educational resources. Licenses are only granted if owners commit
>themselves to responsible dog ownership, eg not letting dog bark all day in
>yard/garden unattended, or run loose in traffic, or produce unwanted
>litters.
I dunno if I'm crazy about this idea. Registering the dog, yes
definately, but a ownership licence nah.
>8) Free poop-picking-up-bags should be located in public parks, so owners
>have no excuse not to pick up poop.
Yes! And more trash cans in public, lots of them!
>9) What can be done about wildlife protection? (A key issue in Australia and
>Scandinavia)
The laws here are already very strict on that issue, leash laws during
spring and summer, and compulsory 'e-shock training' to
sheep/wildlife-proof hunting dogs. Also, any dog chasing livestock or
wild animals can be killed if not obtainable.
What do you think? Too much? Other alternatives?
>--------------
>PS Suggestions 1-6 are adapted from an article by a respected US author
Who, please?
Helle
--
Helle Haugenes
FAQ for no.alt.hunder: http://www.idi.ntnu.no/~haugenes/faq
Mailinglisten Hunder pĺ Yahoo: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hunder
(Et godt alternativ for hundeinteresserte)
Marilyn
Alison <alis...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:9f6b0u$2fcni$1...@ID-80210.news.dfncis.de...
> Hi Alikat,
> I'd like to see all dogs microchipped and licensed, all potential owners
> and homes checked by the local authorities, a law against leaving a dog
> alone all day and education in schools.
> Our area( middx) had a big problem with dog mess on the pavements. The
> council provided dog waste bins in the parks and on grass verges (but not
> bags) and put notices up saying people will be fined if they don't clear
up
> after their dog. The situation has improved but there are always some
people
> who will not co-operate.
> Alison
>
We have bins here too (Somerset).... BUT, there's a field at the back of my
home (with a bin), that 'bout once a month I have to go pick up all the bags
that have been thrown across the field by louts during the night.
Where in Middx?
best regards,
Marilyn
roo
First apologies to those of you outside the US whose countries I haven't
mentioned, like Paul from NZ!
"roo" <r...@kanga.net> wrote in message
news:9f4o16$oe9$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Hi there, this is for people outside the US, to ask what you think can be
> done to tackle problems with dog-human relationships, like neglect of dogs
> and people getting bitten. We've heard from people within the US, and so
far
> they don't seem to think that regulations are desirable.
.Comment:...This IMO seems to be because we use language differently. We
speak English, but it's not the same language. For an Australian, New
Zealander, or European, to regulate something means to try and influence it
(hopefully for the better), which may or may not involve restrictive laws
(check Oxford Shorter dict if you want). People from the US seem to see
regulations in a narrower sense, ie restrictive laws.
This is important as many misunderstandings can arise from thinking you know
what someone means, when you may not. So there are many US members who would
support some or all of these suggestions, yet say they oppose regulation. It
seemed very odd to me until I realised how Americans understand the word.
And PS what I say below only refers to the UK!
>
> So what about you guys from Australia, Canada, and Europe? Below is a
> summary of suggestions. How far do you think they are feasible, for the
> country you live in, from your own local knowledge? Do you have any more
> suggestions as to what is needed/would work in your country?Your answers
> will be helpful for anyone campaigning to try and make things better, eg
for
> Brits trying to change the existing UK regulations.
>
> 1) Dog breeders should use bite inhibition techniques so they sell pups
that
> are less likely to bite people.
>
Comment: seems a very good idea, and there are some good answers on how it
could be done.
The position in Britain seems to be different from the US, tho. We seem to
have our pups younger in the UK, plus many pups don't come from breeders,
but from ordinary families, so there needs to be an effort to get through to
anyone caring for pups that bite inhibition and socialization with people
and other dogs are very important. A license scheme could help - see 7)
> 2) Kids need training on how to behave with dogs, at school, as part of
the
> curriculum, and from parents.
Comment: Yes. People who are most likely to be bitten are kids, from
articles I've read. You end up having a dog-phobic child, and maybe the dog
is put down. I often have to explain to kids that running past a dog and
screaming is not nice for the dog. Tho I find it's teenage boys who are the
worst behaved. Kids should learn how to play near dogs, how to avoid getting
biiten, and this includes not trying to cuddle dogs tied up outside shops,
as they are often nervous being left alone unable to escape, so are more
likely to bite. Kids have delicate skin that's more likely to be damaged,
esp on the face and hands. In kids' interests, they need to learn the basics
of being near dogs.
>
> 3) So parents and teachers need education too (so it's ongoing and not
just
> a one-off visit from an animal welfare organization).
>
Comment: yes, even if it's something as simple as a booklet which explains
how to get on with dogs and not get bitten, plus a bit on responsibilities
of dog ownership and benefits of having a dog..
> 4) Potential dog owners need inexpensive educational resources to learn
> about pups' needs before they obtain them, plus they need ongoing access
to
> resources to help in raising them.
>
Comment: yes, we need more classes in the UK. Maybe this could be done
through a licensing system - see 7)
> 5) No 'stupid teens and thug/druggies' should be allowed a dog for
> 'protection'.
>
Comment: I'm going to stray into territory I don't know a lot about here,
and it's a contentious issue, so all this is prefaced with IMHO.
This is really a 'guard/attack dog' issue.
You have two things to look at here, one is the breed of the dog, and the
other is how it is trained.
Any dog can bite, but some dogs are more likely to, and to inflict serious
damage if they do.
I have known affectionate, gentle rottweilers and wolf hybrids, but I
wouldn't go near one if it had been trained to bite. Conversely, my dog
Conor's brother, (see 'Micky' in 'fear of traffic') euthanazed for being
allowed to run loose and bite people, was not a threat, and would let me put
my fingers in his mouth to take out nasty things he picked up to eat. He was
small and easy to handle by anyone with an ounce of common sense, whereas
you need someone who's highly skilled to rehabilitate certain breeds.
There has been research done by Hart and Hart on US breeds, cited in
Bradshaw, J.S.,
'Determination of behavioural traits of pure-bred dogs using factor analysis
and cluster analysis; a comparison of studies in the USA and UK' from
'Research in Veterinary Science', 1998, 66, 73-76, along with Bradshaw's own
work on UK dogs, which can be criticized on the grounds of flawed concepts,
but which does indicate that one needs to be very careful in training and
handling certain breeds.
So I think that you need both special treatment for dogs trained to bite, eg
not being allowed off the leash in public places, and for dogs from the more
challenging breeds kept as family pets. For example, potential owners need
more info on breed characteristics, just in case they are not aware that
these dogs represent a challenge, and special help with training, in
particular, bite inhibition and socialization with people. They should also
not be left chained up, or tied up outside shops where any children can
approach - a recipe for disaster.
Of course, many dogs are cross-breeds, so to work out which dogs are
'challenging' you maybe need help from a trainer (see 7).
> 6) All novice dog owners should attend basic obedience and animal care
> classes.
>
comment: yes, see 7)
> 7) Dog ownership is only permitted with a licence, and the licence fee is
> used for educational resources. Licenses are only granted if owners commit
> themselves to responsible dog ownership, eg not letting dog bark all day
in
> yard/garden unattended, or run loose in traffic, or produce unwanted
> litters.
>
Comment: We had a license system in the UK, but it was abolished. It
shouldn't be very difficult to bring back in, and would have a number of
advantages. The license fee could be used to raise funds for education, eg
more training classes and educating children on safe play with dogs.
The fee could be waived for people on low incomes, and pensioners.
Pensioners anyhow tend to be at home with their dogs all day, so the dogs
don't bark and create problems as much as dogs left alone.
I think that the license should be a precondition of having a dog, so that
you can target people before they make mistakes, before they they get the
pup home, and it could be renewed annually at a lower fee.
Potential owners should be able to obtain information on health and
behavioral characterstics of breeds that they are considering, plus basic
needs of dogs, to see if they can meet them.
If responsibilities are clearly set out, then owners can't claim ignorance
(eg owner of Mickey's mum, who said that if she got pregnant again he'd have
her put down - she eventually went to a rescue center with her second
'accidental' litter of pups). Potential owners can be made to sign a pledge
on not leaving dog barking in yard/allowing bitches to produce unwanted
litters/picking up poop, etc.
The license fee could include free training classes, and free microchipping,
and owners could go away with an information pack, plus information on
resources available. Trainers could assess the dogs to see if they are from
especially challenging breeds, and make suggestions for rehoming if the
owners find they cannot cope.
I don't know about home visits and fencing, as happens in Australia/NZ. My
home would not be considered suitable for dogs, as the yard/garden is
puppy-proof, but not dog proof. Mine don't escape because I don't let them
out in the yard/garden unattended, but take them out several times a day -
luckily there are a lot of very good walking areas just across the road. How
do you assess who shouldn't have a dog? Rescue centers already do this, but
it would be considered very intrusive if a licensing system did it. I think
the 'responsibility pledge' would act as a filter. For example, people out
at work all day would realise that there are problems leaving a dog alone.
OK, so not all trainers use the best methods, and even the best trainers
will sometimes make mistakes, but those are separate issues. There are some
things that all trainers agree on, and more effort can be made to help
existing trainers update their skills and learn to tackle a wider range of
problems.
> 8) Free poop-picking-up-bags should be located in public parks, so owners
> have no excuse not to pick up poop.
comment: yes - it works well in some parts of Spain
>
> 9) What can be done about wildlife protection? (A key issue in Australia
and
> Scandinavia)
comment: I think cat/sheep chasing is more of a problem in Britain, and
tackling that should come into training class curricula. Hedghogs need
protection - I have known dogs kill hedgehogs, but mine have learnt that
they are nice and must be respected. My pups used to get very excited when
we met one but we just stopped to look at the hedgehog and I told them to
sit, and that it was a 'good hedgehog' and they eventually learnt to ignore
them.
> --------------
> PS Suggestions 1-6 are adapted from an article by a respected US author
>
> Thanks for all your thoughts on this.
>
> Alikat
Yes, thanks again all those who have helped to educate me, I have learnt a
lot from your contributions. Don't plan on posting for a while now, have a
backlog of stuff to do, as it took a long while to think about and write
this. Alikat
>
>
Helle Haugenes
<swee...@bigpond.com> wrote:
[..]
>Alikat:
>> 8) Free poop-picking-up-bags should be located in public parks, so owners
>> have no excuse not to pick up poop.
>could be a problem with vandals and firebugs, but a good idea anyway,
The poop bags can be placed above a trash can stinking of *filled*
poop bags. That way the vandals might want to keep a distance :-) It
might not solve the problem with the firebugs, whatever that is.
>also
>offlead parks for dogs that have complted basic obediance.
Off lead parks is something I really miss. I consider off leash time
for dogs important for their 'happiness'. To accomplish this
'happiness', I have to break the law three times a day 6 months a
year. It would be nice if I could have somewhere I could let my dog
off leash without breaking the law, although I would probably still
use the forest. Thus perhaps only break the law once or twice a day
:-)
Helle
--
Helle Haugenes
FAQ for no.alt.hunder: http://www.idi.ntnu.no/~haugenes/faq
Mailinglisten Hunder på Yahoo: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hunder
Helle Haugenes
<NOSPAM...@zfree.co.nz> wrote:
>I think your looking at it from a dog lovers POV. All those points are
>great in theory but people who aren't interested in dogs aren't going to be
>interested in learning about how to react in front of a dog etc.
That's a very good point. However, kids are generally very interested
in animals and I think it would be great if there was some way to
integrate animal care and behavior into the biology, or even social
science, curriculum in school.
I've mentioned it before, that I am often approached by neighbor kids
who's first question is whether the dog bites (that's what their
parents tell them). Although I'm content with the fact that these kids
will not approach a dog without asking the owner, it's sad that the
reason why they don't is that they grow up thinking that dogs are
dangerous.
[..]
>Here in NZ all dogs have to be registered each year and must wear a collar
>with a coloured disc attached, the disc has a number on it which identifies
>the dog and who owns it. Thus any wandering dog can be identified and the
>owners contacted and fined if they are deemed to be irresponsable.
Sounds sensible. The problem with collars though, is that they come
off. So if someone wants to abandon their dog, all they need to do is
take the collar off and let the dog loose. IMO the collar tags should
be in addition to ID chips.
>To own
>more than one dog here you must apply to the council who inspect your
>property making sure it is fully fenced and suitable in other ways and you
>must obtain all immediate neighbours permission in writing.
Wow! Does it work? How do people (dog owners) feel about this? It's a
wonderful rule for any neighbor who likes being difficult. But, maybe
NZ people are laid-back and tolerating?
>There are few real restrictions on taking dogs in public places here, [..]
Pretty much like I'm used to, except for the off leash parks that
don't exist here. Dogs are allowed on the beaches, but it seems like
most owners use their common sense and keep their dogs away from
people or wait until the sunbathers are gone to walk their dogs.
[..]
>There is no real solution. There will always be people who for whatever
>reason end up abusing or neglecting their pets. Probably educating children
>about how animals really feel and what care they really need is the place to
>start as adults more often than not have preconcieved ideas about how to
>treat and deal with dogs for better or worse.
Yup!
Nancy Holmes or Nelson Ruffin
Helle Haugenes <haug...@idi.ntnu.no> wrote in message
news:pecdht047nqokogta...@4ax.com...
snip
> >2) Kids need training on how to behave with dogs, at school, as part of
the
> >curriculum, and from parents.
>
> We can't expect parents to take the responsibility, other than to
> teach children respect for all life. Same goes for schools, really,
> children need to be taught about animals in general (respect, welfare,
> how to behave around them, and where the milk comes from :-) But, dogs
> specifically is more than we can expect.
where as likely to run into a whale or wolf as a dog but they get lots of
training on wildlife and ecology.
Nancy
Nancy Holmes or Nelson Ruffin
snip
> The position in Britain seems to be different from the US, tho. We seem to
> have our pups younger in the UK, plus many pups don't come from breeders,
a breeder here in the US. The majority of dogs are from one time litter
producers - ie families who let the dog 'litter'.
Snip
Nancy
Helle Haugenes
Does this mean that people are considered breeders when they
accidently let their bitch out during season and have a litter?
I think something like this:
- a breeder is someone who has one or more litters of a pure breed,
where both parents are registered and the litter is approved by the
breed club.
- a 'backyard' breeder is someone who doesn't meet one or more of the
above requirements, but breeds her/his dog deliberatly or have several
litters. Often mixes. This type of breeder is difficult to reach in
order to inform about the type of guidelines I suggested in another
message in this thread.
BTW 'Backyard' breeder sounds kinda negative and in most of the time
it is (IMNSHO). In some cases though, for instance with herders or
sled dogs, the breeders are very serious in what they do, but simply
do not care about registrations, shows or trials to have their dogs
accepted. I guess I wouldn't call these people 'backyard' breeders.
Glenda Watkins
Things have gone far enough. It's time to intervene and impose
your will. If others see you as the villain, that's their problem.
Time is sure to prove you right. Forgiving and healing can come later.
Right now you need to march into the middle of the room and start
taking action. Send the people who have been dead weight for too long
packing and give those who have worked hard what they have been asking
for. You are as much a part of the product and the production as
anybody, so
you have plenty at stake. Take no prisoners!
Glenda
Marilyn
Nancy Holmes or Nelson Ruffin <fmka...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:9f6ake$8is$1...@slb3.atl.mindspring.net...
Well, they'de just have to clean up and approve all the owners then :-)
Marilyn
>
Patch
> I'd like to see all dogs microchipped
Its voluntary for the next five years after which the plan is compulsory
chipping [ UK].
Patch
Jerry Howe
"Marilyn" <marilyn...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9fajkj$pii$1...@taliesin.netcom.net.uk...
Patch
"Glenda Watkins" <gle...@isptours.com> wrote in message
news:3B18B5CE...@isptours.com...
Huh ? Is it me or it this a bit cryptic ?
Patch
John DeRosa
<d.guipag...@ntlworld.com> belched up this opinion:
>Huh ? Is it me or it this a bit cryptic ?
I vote for cryptic...
Jerry Howe
"Glenda Watkins" <gle...@isptours.com> wrote in message
news:3B18B5CE...@isptours.com...
Patch
"John DeRosa" <stu...@qwest.net> wrote in message
news:i04ihtca84v2k0lmr...@4ax.com...
Phew !! Glad I`m not the only one confused about it <g>
Patch
David & Janette Sweeney
"Patch" <d.guipag...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:pzcS6.12347$HL5.1...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
Patch
"David & Janette Sweeney" <swee...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:2FyS6.36710$hV3....@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
a day of the lines being down in the area, so running behind somewhat.
Patch
Jason
David & Janette Sweeney wrote:
> > Phew !! Glad I`m not the only one confused about it <g>
> >
> > Patch
> >
> hey Patch good to see your still with us...Dave
120 messages in less than 3 days, how could you miss her? Maybe you
just have her kill-filed like I do.
--
..........
Jason :
·········:
Bluheelr :
··········
Jerry Howe
enough to understand???
"Jason" <bluh...@westexskysports.com> wrote in message
news:3B1BBA4B...@westexskysports.com...
Nancy Holmes or Nelson Ruffin
> Does this mean that people are considered breeders when they
> accidently let their bitch out during season and have a litter?
>
> I think something like this:
>
> - a breeder is someone who has one or more litters of a pure breed,
> where both parents are registered and the litter is approved by the
> breed club.
Not quite - here no breed club approval is needed. And this description
neatly covers puppy mills as well as hobby breeders of purebreds.
>
> - a 'backyard' breeder is someone who doesn't meet one or more of the
> above requirements, but breeds her/his dog deliberatly or have several
> litters. Often mixes. This type of breeder is difficult to reach in
> order to inform about the type of guidelines I suggested in another
> message in this thread.
This can be the one time breeder too.
>
> BTW 'Backyard' breeder sounds kinda negative and in most of the time
> it is (IMNSHO). In some cases though, for instance with herders or
> sled dogs, the breeders are very serious in what they do, but simply
> do not care about registrations, shows or trials to have their dogs
> accepted. I guess I wouldn't call these people 'backyard' breeders.
You left out hobby and purpose breeders - I think that would cover the
above.
Nancy
roo
This is a bit OT, but not altogether...It's a question for 'Our US
Readers'..
We need to learn about each other's cultures to communicate in this ng, eg
language differences.
The way we in Britain learn about you guys in the States is through TV.
So my question is, which of these TV programs we get in Britain gives an
accurate (if only partial) portrayal of US society:
South Park
Twin Peaks
King of the Hill
Jerry Springer Show
Rikki Lake
Beavis and Butthead
The Sopranos
Baywatch
Frasier
Friends
Cheers?
And what else do you think we need to put in our US Studies curriculum, to
understand you better?
Alikat
"Nancy Holmes or Nelson Ruffin" <fmka...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:9g0rf7$b6l$1...@slb5.atl.mindspring.net...
Jdoee
than the live action. South Park accurately reflects the way children that
age will talk to each other when there are no adults around. Same with
Beavis and Butthead. Likewise, King of the Hill is a good illustration of
the little joys and disasters of family life. One aspect of King of the
Hill that is especially good is how the Hills relate to their Cambodian
immigrant neighbors. The kids are great friends, the mothers cold but
trying, and the fathers are extremely competitive.
As long as we are talking TV series, you should add 'Malcolm in the Middle'
another show about family life. jdoee and Stacey Dog
----------
Kind2dogs
>From: "roo" r...@kanga.net
>Date: Mon, Jun 11, 2001 12:46 PM
>Message-id: <9g2si0$ffh$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>
>
>Hi Guys,
>
>This is a bit OT, but not altogether...It's a question for 'Our US
>Readers'..
>
>We need to learn about each other's cultures to communicate in this ng,
>eg
>language differences.
>
>The way we in Britain learn about you guys in the States is through TV.
>
>So my question is, which of these TV programs we get in Britain gives an
>accurate (if only partial) portrayal of US society:
>
>South Park
Never watched it
>Twin Peaks
A BIZARRE show and not typical of life here in my area anyway.
>King of the Hill
Is that the one with the mail guy?
I love that show!
I think that is fairly typical of middle class people, although we don't have
many two family homes here, in fact I don 't know of any really. There are
mother in law apartments though.
>Jerry Springer Show
Ohhh ACK! I have to say WHERE do these people cme from?
I don't know anyone(Cape Cod) here like that!
>Rikki Lake
Don't watch it
>Beavis and Butthead
Never watched it
>The Sopranos
Ahh I can say an unequivocal YES but not here so much as in the old days of the
North End in Boston.
>Baywatch
Yes, as there are some beautiful young people here in summer.
>Frasier
Yup. SO MANY SHRINKS with their idiosyncrasies.
>Friends
Yup, at least a group of people that hang out a lot together.
>Cheers?
Yes, in fact my cousin worked at the place.
>
>And what else do you think we need to put in our US Studies curriculum,
>to
>understand you better?
Hmmmm Well don't go see the PERFECT STORM, as it is a bogus account of
swordfishermen, and I know of what I speak.
As for Sex and the City these woman are quite something.
YIKES!
Talk about easy women or like my Mom use to say trollops.
I don't think there is that much on tv that relates to how we are here, but in
movies I have loved some, like Cookies Fortune,Midnight in the Garden of Good
and Evil,oh yes and JAWS the first one as they filmed it right here!
My favourite program from your country is LoveJoy.
They had the antiques business down pat and whoever wrote it really had to be
in the know.
Paulette~
A dogs life is too short...
Their only fault really...
Helle Haugenes
[..]
>>Frasier
>>Friends
>>Cheers?
Me too.. watch them, I mean. In addition I watch ER (it's getting a
little old isn't it?) and Judging Amy (Is she ever going to have an
affair with Bruce, her assistant, or is that only my imagination?).
[..]
>Hmmmm Well don't go see the PERFECT STORM, as it is a bogus account of
>swordfishermen, and I know of what I speak.
How funny you should say that, Paulette. I saw it two days ago and
guess who I thought about; You! :-) And now you're telling me it's
bogus :-( What about the characters? I loved them!
>As for Sex and the City these woman are quite something.
>YIKES!
I hate it.. almost as much as Clueless Ick! If any of these gives an
accurate portrayal of the US I'd be quite surprised.
Helle :-)
Rocky
news:9g2si0$ffh$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk:
> Baywatch
I'd like to *think* that Baywatch is indicative of the U.S. The
slow motion shots and everything.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
J1Boss
>
>Hi Guys,
>So my question is, which of these TV programs we get in Britain gives an
>accurate (if only partial) portrayal of US society:
>
>South Park
Ech - have never been able to sit through more of a moment of this!
>Twin Peaks
never got interested in it - but a bit non-normal!
>King of the Hill
I love King of the Hill, and I would say it's pretty on the money, particularly
for the area of the country.
>Jerry Springer Show
never have seen anything but news clips about it.
>Rikki Lake
same as above.
>Beavis and Butthead
Feel the same way as about South Park
>The Sopranos
One of my favorite shows! Pretty realistic I believe, although it's not like
everyone in the US belongs to the mob! ;-D
>Baywatch
never seen it, but tan shapely people in bathing suits in CA is pretty common.
>Frasier
Pretty true to life I think - another show I like.
>Friends
Those friends can't possibly be making enough money to live where they do! Not
very realistic at all.
>Cheers?
Way too common I think - a lot of people in many parts of the world have that
as their reality though - no actual life, so their bar becomes that for them.
>And what else do you think we need to put in our US Studies curriculum, to
>understand you better?
>
>Alikat
Geez - what does anyone, anywhere need to learn more about other cultures? I
don't think anything can possibly substitute for the real thing - actually
visiting the place. That goes for other places within your own country as well
as traveling to foreign countries. I think in any country, life varies quite a
bit between city and suburb, or generally urban and rural. I need to see a lot
more of the US - many places I have never been and only know about from media
of some sort. Never the same as being there.
So - you coming to the US for a visit? ;-D
Janet Boss
Best Friends Dog Obedience
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
"Second-hand dogs AREN'T second-rate"
see Lucy at: http://www.flyball.com/nsl/
Helle Haugenes
[..]
>The way we in Britain learn about you guys in the States is through TV.
>
>So my question is, which of these TV programs we get in Britain gives an
>accurate (if only partial) portrayal of US society:
>South Park, Twin Peaks, King of the Hill, Jerry Springer Show, Rikki Lake
>Beavis and Butthead, The Sopranos, Baywatch, Frasier, Friends, Cheers?
LOL..
>And what else do you think we need to put in our US Studies curriculum, to
>understand you better?
I think we need to add Ally McBeal, Pizza Gang (?), Oprah, Chicago
Hope, NYPD Blue, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Dawson's Creek (?).. All of
these are popular here (in addition to those Alikat mentioned).
Btw Alikat, I have a question for you as well, about Absolutely
Fabulous.. how accurate does that show portray the UK society? Hehe..
I should hope not so very accurate ;-)
Jenn
true-to-life in the US. I do like most of them though! I have a question for
you folks in the UK though! I love the UK shows we get here. Is Coronation
Street very accurate?
Jenn
"Kind2dogs" <kind...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010611130528...@ng-cc1.aol.com...
Cindy
>The way we in Britain learn about you guys in the States is through TV.
This could explain a lot.
>So my question is, which of these TV programs we get in Britain gives an
>accurate (if only partial) portrayal of US society:
>
>South Park
>Twin Peaks
>King of the Hill
>Jerry Springer Show
>Rikki Lake
>Beavis and Butthead
>The Sopranos
>Baywatch
>Frasier
>Friends
>Cheers?
*jaw drops open*
OK, let me ask you. How much would we learn about you from:
Absolutely Fabulous
Benny Hill
Monty Python
etc
?
--Cindy
Cindy
Rocky <australia...@cadvision.com> wrote:
>"roo" <r...@kanga.net> wrote in
>news:9g2si0$ffh$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk:
>
>> Baywatch
>
>I'd like to *think* that Baywatch is indicative of the U.S. The
>slow motion shots and everything.
Hate to burst your...um...bubble.
That's not even accurate of southern California.
--Cindy
roo
"Cindy" <tit...@eris.io.com> wrote in message
news:2w7V6.39012$Uo3.1...@news6.giganews.com...
Hi Cindy and other People from the US and Helle,
And there I was, sitting with my notebook and ballpoint pen, writing down
all the US idiomatic expressions from 'Jerry Springer, like 'You Ho' ', and
'Whadeva', and now you tell me it's not an accurate reflection of what you
are like. Well, I will have to study another program now.
We love the Sopranos in this house, tho' the dogs only really like TV when
there are animals on, especially cats and horses. We also like South Park
and King of the Hill, and my husband is mesmerised by Buffy the Vampire
Slayer. Can't say there's much of a plot in Baywatch stories, but some UK
males don't seem to mind. Ally Mc Beal can be funny, but she needs a good
cooked breakfast. We are Twin Peakies - 'The Owls are Not What They Seem'
etc. You either love it or you hate it, like S Park.
Beavis and B is OK for MTV fans with raging hormones, very popular with 13
year olds in the UK, but I can only tolerate it in smallish doses. (I used
to share an apartment with a biker, who was very like B and B, so it brings
back memories.) King of the Hill is very gentle and subtle. Can't say I have
much time for Friends, but then it's maybe geared to a younger age
group.Frasier is OK, but I'd argue not as sparky as South Park. Like the dog
in Frasier, of course. Trouble is, Conor blocks our view of the TV and barks
when the dog comes on, and we are watching it in bed.
British TV - yes Ab Fab, Coronation Street, and Monty Python all tell you a
lot about the Brits. Monty Python has been criticized on grounds of being
'little boy' humor, eg not many good roles given to women, women are seen as
strange creatures, but I still find it funny, and like the sense of the
absurd (eg sketch on 'I want a license for Eric, my pet Bee'. The 'four
Yorkshiremen' is another classic. 'When I were young, we lived in middle of
motorway' 'We lived in bottom of lake', each trying to outdo the other in
tales of tough childhoods. Trouble is, when you get older, you find you
start telling younger people things like this! Coronation Street and Ab Fab
also reflect British humor in different ways. British soaps tend to have
strong female characters - true of Coronation Street. Benny Hill is
probably more popular abroad than in Britain, fairly unimaginative and
mysogynist, and old fashioned now - ie the taboos it relies on to create
humor no longer exist to the same extent.
This is a very personal view, though, some of the other Brits might
disagree!
Alikat
Cindy
>
>"Cindy" <tit...@eris.io.com> wrote in message
>news:2w7V6.39012$Uo3.1...@news6.giganews.com...
>> In article <9g2si0$ffh$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>, roo <r...@kanga.net> wrote:
>>
>
>> OK, let me ask you. How much would we learn about you from:
>>
>> Absolutely Fabulous
>> Benny Hill
>> Monty Python
>> etc
>> ?
>>
>> --Cindy
>
>Hi Cindy and other People from the US and Helle,
>
>And there I was, sitting with my notebook and ballpoint pen, writing down
>all the US idiomatic expressions from 'Jerry Springer, like 'You Ho' ', and
>'Whadeva', and now you tell me it's not an accurate reflection of what you
>are like. Well, I will have to study another program now.
If all you want is LANGUAGE, any of these will give you samples. (So
will Usenet, for that matter!) I thought you were looking for
CULTURE, though.
Best one for that is visit. Come on over, we won't bite! Much.
--Cindy
Kind2dogs
>Date: Mon, Jun 11, 2001 1:20 PM
>Message-id: <Xns90BD738028DFCau...@130.133.1.4>
I just bet you would. ; )
Eat your heart out Matt, it's like that here!
Kind2dogs
>Date: Mon, Jun 11, 2001 1:48 PM
>Message-id: <2w7V6.39012$Uo3.1...@news6.giganews.com>
>
>In article <9g2si0$ffh$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>, roo <r...@kanga.net> wrote:
>
>>The way we in Britain learn about you guys in the States is through TV.
>
>This could explain a lot.
>
>>So my question is, which of these TV programs we get in Britain gives an
>>accurate (if only partial) portrayal of US society:
>>
>>South Park
>>Twin Peaks
>>King of the Hill
>>Jerry Springer Show
>>Rikki Lake
>>Beavis and Butthead
>>The Sopranos
>>Baywatch
>>Frasier
>>Friends
>>Cheers?
>
>*jaw drops open*
I thought this was a fun question, not a reality question, or was it?
It wasn't meant to be on the money was it?
>OK, let me ask you. How much would we learn about you from:
>
>Absolutely Fabulous
>Benny Hill
>Monty Python
>etc
>?
>
>--Cindy
I love LOVEJOY!
roo
> In article <9g32br$4v1$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>, roo <r...@kanga.net> wrote:
> >
> >"Cindy" <tit...@eris.io.com> wrote in message
> >news:2w7V6.39012$Uo3.1...@news6.giganews.com...
> >> In article <9g2si0$ffh$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>, roo <r...@kanga.net>
wrote:
> >
> >And there I was, sitting with my notebook and ballpoint pen, writing down
> >all the US idiomatic expressions from 'Jerry Springer, like 'You Ho' ',
and
> >'Whadeva', and now you tell me it's not an accurate reflection of what
you
> >are like. Well, I will have to study another program now.
>
> If all you want is LANGUAGE, any of these will give you samples. (So
> will Usenet, for that matter!) I thought you were looking for
> CULTURE, though.
>
Language is part of culture, and when I say 'culture' I mean how people live
and understand the world around them. Didn't like to imply that you guys had
lives as depicted on Jerry Springer, so thought I'd better keep the culture
out of it when I mentioned that program. He's a real cynic, that guy, with
his 'thought for today' at the end. It is voyeuristic rubbish, but still
fascinates me.
Alikat
>
> --Cindy
roo
> >Subject: Re: OT or not OT
> I thought this was a fun question, not a reality question, or was it?
>
> I
>
> I love LOVEJOY!
>
> Hi, It's as serious or as fun as you want it to be.
The Lovejoy hero is good looking, I'll give you that.
We want more Sopranos, we are still suffering wthdrawal symptoms from when
they took it away.
Alikat
Kind2dogs
>Date: Mon, Jun 11, 2001 2:55 PM
>Message-id: <9g343v$51v$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>
>
>
>"Kind2dogs" <kind...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20010611143549...@ng-mf1.aol.com...
>> >Subject: Re: OT or not OT
>
>> I thought this was a fun question, not a reality question, or was it?
>>
>> I
>>
>> I love LOVEJOY!
>>
>> Hi, It's as serious or as fun as you want it to be.
Okay
>
>The Lovejoy hero is good looking, I'll give you that.
Yes and he is PERFECT in the role of an antiques dealer.
>We want more Sopranos, we are still suffering wthdrawal symptoms from when
>they took it away.
>
>Alikat
I know.
Have you watched 6 feet under?
Cindy
>Language is part of culture, and when I say 'culture' I mean how people live
>and understand the world around them. Didn't like to imply that you guys had
>lives as depicted on Jerry Springer, so thought I'd better keep the culture
>out of it when I mentioned that program. He's a real cynic, that guy, with
>his 'thought for today' at the end. It is voyeuristic rubbish, but still
>fascinates me.
I cannot stand this show, nor do I know anyone who likes it. It's
really trashy. So's Rikki Lake, I cannot believe the idiots that will
go and make fools of themselves on TV like that. I would tend make
certain unflattering assumptions about anyone who genuinely enjoyed
either of these.
I don't know that any particular show is going to give you the insight
you're looking for. By their very natures, TV shows will condense and
distort whatever they depict. Plus, too, the US is a large country, and
there are many variations across the country in how people live, etc.,
that would be as strange/different to me as to you.
--Cindy
Robin Nuttall
> >
> Language is part of culture, and when I say 'culture' I mean how people live
> and understand the world around them. Didn't like to imply that you guys had
> lives as depicted on Jerry Springer, so thought I'd better keep the culture
> out of it when I mentioned that program. He's a real cynic, that guy, with
> his 'thought for today' at the end. It is voyeuristic rubbish, but still
> fascinates me.
> Alikat
None of the shows you mentioned reflect real life very well over here,
or, frankly, and of the culture I see here in Missouri. Friends is way
to "New Yawk" for here, Twin Peaks is just silly (well it was a fun
show, but no indicator of American culture) as is Baywatch.
Our TV programs make us more beautiful, clever, stupid, smart, ugly,
mean, tacky, stylish, and kind than we really are. No town has ever had
the number of murders as Cabot Cove (Murder, She Wrote). Nor does NYC
see close to the number of murders depicted on NYPD Blue. I *love* West
Wing, but I love it for intelligent characters and writing, not because
I think it reflects accurately what happens in the White House. When it
first came on, ER had a real ring of truth. I have worked in hospitals,
and the characters were very close, though in a real ER everybody
doesn't hyperventilate every time a patient comes in. It has now dragged
on too long.
You just can't infer either culture or morals from TV. Every teenager in
America isn't a sex-starved drug addict (or a future beauty queen).
Every Italian doesn't belong in the mob. Every Mexican isn't an illegal
migrant worker. Every Black (African American) doesn't live on the
streets of Brooklyn or deal drugs. We're just us. And if you want to
know us, come on over and we'll show you our great country and the
mostly great people in it. :)
roo
> >Subject: Re: OT or not OT
> >From: "roo" r...@kanga.net
> >Date: Mon, Jun 11, 2001 2:55 PM
> >Message-id: <9g343v$51v$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>
> >
> >
> >"Kind2dogs" <kind...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >news:20010611143549...@ng-mf1.aol.com...
> >> >Subject: Re: OT or not OT
> >
> >> I thought this was a fun question, not a reality question, or was it?
> >>
> >> I
> >>
> >> I love LOVEJOY!
> >>
> >> Hi, It's as serious or as fun as you want it to be.
>
> Okay
>
>
> >
> >The Lovejoy hero is good looking, I'll give you that.
>
> Yes and he is PERFECT in the role of an antiques dealer.
>
>
> >We want more Sopranos, we are still suffering wthdrawal symptoms from
when
> >they took it away.
> >
> >Alikat
>
> I know.
>
> Have you watched 6 feet under?
> >
No I haven't, what's it about?
Oh, and Cindy, my husband would agree with you on Jerry Springer - he
groans when it comes on. The dogs don't like it much either, they really
like wildlife programs, and Conor likes watching the races (horses with
people on them fascinate him, and he gets really close to the screen).
Conor is funny. He thinks cats live in the TV. You say 'cat' in the bedroom,
where the TV is, and he'll look at the TV. Say 'cat' downstairs, and he
looks at the glass-fronted fire, as it looks like a TV. The other two dogs
only get excited about what's on the TV if it barks or makes other noises.
Conor has different vision. Tilly gets very excited when Conor does, and
then she mounts him. It makes it difficult to watch some quiet movies, like
ones with the hero coming down the mountain path on horseback. Conor shoots
to the screen and gets in the way. Arf Arf.
Alikat
Theresa Willis
Well, when you're a robot, all humans are moving in slow motion.
Matt just needs to become a robot.
Of course, then he probably wouldn't appreciate the slow motion shots
in the same way.
--Terri & Harlan (Catch 22!)
EmilyS
the American working class,
as well as attitudes towards authority (disrepectful), religion (the
only show in which characters regularly go to church)and the major
foodgroups (beer and doughnuts)
EmilyS
"roo" <r...@kanga.net> wrote in message news:<9g2si0$ffh$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>...
Sally Hennessey
wrote:
>"roo" <r...@kanga.net> wrote in
>news:9g2si0$ffh$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk:
>
>> Baywatch
>
>I'd like to *think* that Baywatch is indicative of the U.S. The
>slow motion shots and everything.
Heh heh. Only in your dreams (and lots of other guys' dreams)
Sally Hennessey
Nancy Holmes or Nelson Ruffin
Nancysnip list of tv shows I cannot even figure out why anyone watches....
roo
I remember a childhood without TV. 'We made our own entertainment in those
days' Climbed on garage roofs, shouted rude things at people and ran away.
Fished, made tree house dens, had picnics. Always accompanied by Dog. And we
played Tis Snot a lot.
Yes, TV does deprive kids of simple pleasures, and can make people too
passive, but it's a great soother after a hard day at work. And it does give
you a way of communicating with those you've never met, as you can find a
common language more easily. Doh, have to do some work now.
Alikat
"Nancy Holmes or Nelson Ruffin" <fmka...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:9g3ud2$ogf$1...@slb4.atl.mindspring.net...
roo
why British humor is not well understood by Americans.
The statement that I assiduously watch Jerry Springer to learn something
about US culture is ironic, ie not to be taken literally. The idea of anyone
expecting to get a full picture of US society from Jerry Springer strikes me
as comic, and I've never watched it with notebook and ballpoint in hand.
Does that help, Cindy?
"Cindy" <tit...@eris.io.com> wrote in message
news:1a8V6.39075$Uo3.1...@news6.giganews.com...
roo
You've got special insights into US/Brit differences, on account of being
married to a Brit. What would you say are the main differences in how we see
the world?
Alikat
"Pat Meadows" <p...@meadows.pair.com> wrote in message
news:0e6cit4or3e0hc0fc...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:07:37 +0100, "roo" <r...@kanga.net>
> wrote:
>
> >I 've read that irony isn't used much in the US, and that this is one
reason
> >why British humor is not well understood by Americans.
>
> Rubbish! British humor is well understood by millions and
> millions of Americans (as witnessed by the multitude of
> British sitcoms shown on our PBS stations): irony is used a
> great deal in the USA.
>
> Whatever have you been reading?
>
> Pat Meadows (a Yank married to a Brit)
Leah
>So my question is, which of these TV programs we get in Britain gives an
>accurate (if only partial) portrayal of US society:
>
>South Park
>Twin Peaks
>King of the Hill
>Jerry Springer Show
>Rikki Lake
>Beavis and Butthead
>The Sopranos
>Baywatch
>Frasier
>Friends
>Cheers?
Out of that list, I'd say "Friends" gives the most accurate portrayal.
Learn How to Can Spam
http://www.whew.com/Spammers/reportspam_stepbystep.shtml
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Internet Secrets, 2nd Edition, by John Levine (All About Spam, p. 277)
Chris Williams
> sitcoms shown on our PBS stations):
> irony is used a great deal in the USA.
that they could afford; recent ones would probably be too expensive.
Any nominatiions?
You know what strikes me? British sitcoms (As Time Goes By, Waiting
for God) are about mature people. They'd never get on here;
everything's about kids.
Cindy
>I 've read that irony isn't used much in the US, and that this is one reason
>why British humor is not well understood by Americans.
>
>The statement that I assiduously watch Jerry Springer to learn something
>about US culture is ironic, ie not to be taken literally. The idea of anyone
>expecting to get a full picture of US society from Jerry Springer strikes me
>as comic, and I've never watched it with notebook and ballpoint in hand.
>
>Does that help, Cindy?
I don't know. You didn't think this was ironic?
Cindy
Pat Meadows <p...@meadows.pair.com> wrote:
>5. Our road signs (directional signs) are horrendously
>confusing and were seemingly made by a tribe of migratory
>idiots who travel throughout the USA doing road 'signage'
>designed to confuse the unwary and lure him in the wrong
>direction...
Oh, now, JUST a moment here!! You's the guys with DIVERSION and WAY
OUT road signs, not to mention DEAD SLOW CHILDREN PLAYING. And miles
and miles and miles and miles of two way roads 1.5 cars wide. Did I
mention roundabouts?
--Cindy, a "yank" who has spent at least two months driving thru Britain
Kind2dogs
>From: Pat Meadows p...@meadows.pair.com
>Date: Tue, Jun 12, 2001 11:09 AM
>Message-id: <24bcitcrvekekfvgr...@4ax.com>
>
>On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:49:18 +0100, "roo" <r...@kanga.net>
>wrote:
>
>>OK Pat,
>>
>>You've got special insights into US/Brit differences, on account of being
>>married to a Brit. What would you say are the main differences in how we
>see
>>the world?
>>
>
>and myself could be any of:
>
>1. Individual personality differences
>2. Man-woman differences
>3. Brit-Yank cultural differences
>
>As *generalizations* go, the ones below are probably fairly
>accurate and my husband would agree with them (still...
>generalizations don't go very far!):
>
>1. Americans want everyone to be happy! For example, it's
>not enough to pay for your food in a restaurant, you're
>supposed to *enjoy* it too. :) Brits don't care whether
>you're happy or not. We are more 'customer service
>oriented'.
I rather have good service. If I don't get good service I don't enjoy the food,
AND I complain to the owner or manager.
>2. Americans exaggerate, Brits understate.
Well, I have to say many Yankee's understate as well.
>Probably the
>truth lies somewhere in between.
>
>3. We are more direct in the way we do things: and tend to
>do whatever will get the job done regardless of status,
>official titles etc. The Brits have more regulations and
>are more status-conscious.
Yes
>4. Americans (in public at least) are chattier and more
>outgoing with strangers.
NOT HERE. we are not a friendly bunch at all.
In fact when someone gets a bit too familiar,our antennae goes up.
We don't want our space invaded.
>5. Our road signs (directional signs) are horrendously
>confusing and were seemingly made by a tribe of migratory
>idiots who travel throughout the USA doing road 'signage'
>designed to confuse the unwary and lure him in the wrong
>direction...
You should have a Cape Codder give you directions. ; )_
>That's about all I can think of that I think are fairly
>accurate.
>
>Cheers,
>Pat
>
Did a good job, Pat.
One thing though, America having so many distinct regions and accents and
people what you might think is normal behavior and speech might not be to me.
Where are you?
Paulette~
Rocky
> Our road signs (directional signs) are horrendously
> confusing and were seemingly made by a tribe of migratory
> idiots who travel throughout the USA doing road 'signage'
> designed to confuse the unwary and lure him in the wrong
> direction...
Here are a few interesting British road signs:
http://www.voicenet.com/~ckerr/signs.htm
Cindy
Pat Meadows <p...@meadows.pair.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:27:09 GMT, tit...@eris.io.com (Cindy)
>wrote:
I understood that. I was more or less addressing your husband.
>I think our (American) road signs are horrendously
>confusing. So does my British husband.
Nah. Spain's got the best road signage I've seen. France is
confusing, they seem to use their own graphic symbols (instead of the
red circle with a white bar to indicate no traffic, they used
something that looked like, in retrospect, a car crash (this was at
the Spain/France border along the mediterranean)) and they don't place
the street names and directions very intuitively on the roundabouts --
by the time you spotted them, you'd gone past the exit. Spain did a
great job. Britain was missing half its signs and had the funky
streets (with tall hedges everywhere so you had no shoulder to pull
over for oncoming traffic on said 1.5 car wide streets).
West coast US, piece of cake. Big wide streets, everything is lit
(well for the most part), signs everywhere. East coast, well...
--Cindy
J1Boss
>Here are a few interesting British road signs:
> http://www.voicenet.com/~ckerr/signs.htm
>--
>--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
I took a photo of one like the top sign - the car going into the water, when I
was in Italy! So, it's not just the Brits. Gee - are drivers THAT dumb that
they need to be notified that if they keep driving toward that ocean, they'll
eventually go right into the drink?
Janet Boss
Best Friends Dog Obedience
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
"Second-hand dogs AREN'T second-rate"
see Lucy at: http://www.flyball.com/nsl/
Kind2dogs
>Message-id: <pmdcito45c18vdp0f...@4ax.com>
>
>On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:27:09 GMT, tit...@eris.io.com (Cindy)
>wrote:
>
>>In article <24bcitcrvekekfvgr...@4ax.com>,
>>Pat Meadows <p...@meadows.pair.com> wrote:
>>>5. Our road signs (directional signs) are horrendously
>>>confusing and were seemingly made by a tribe of migratory
>>>idiots who travel throughout the USA doing road 'signage'
>>>designed to confuse the unwary and lure him in the wrong
>>>direction...
>>
>>Oh, now, JUST a moment here!! You's the guys with DIVERSION and WAY
>>OUT road signs, not to mention DEAD SLOW CHILDREN PLAYING. And miles
>>and miles and miles and miles of two way roads 1.5 cars wide. Did I
>>mention roundabouts?
>>
>>--Cindy, a "yank" who has spent at least two months driving thru Britain
>>
Hmmmm that is so odd me thinking of you as a Yankee.
I know that we are Yanks to all over there,but we New England Yankees think
everyone else is a Southerner or a Westerner.
Odd how different connotations are in different regions of the USA.
>No, Cindy. I'm American...we live in the states.
>
>I think our (American) road signs are horrendously
>confusing. So does my British husband.
>
>Pat
We have ROTARIES here and people from out of the area,are *frozen to their
wheel* when they come to one.
Kind2dogs
>From: j1b...@aol.com (J1Boss)
>Date: Tue, Jun 12, 2001 11:57 AM
>Message-id: <20010612115732...@ng-ma1.aol.com>
>
>>
>>Here are a few interesting British road signs:
>> http://www.voicenet.com/~ckerr/signs.htm
>>--
>>--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>>
>
>I took a photo of one like the top sign - the car going into the water,
>when I
>was in Italy! So, it's not just the Brits. Gee - are drivers THAT dumb
>that
>they need to be notified that if they keep driving toward that ocean, they'll
>eventually go right into the drink?
>
Oh gee, I should go and take a pick of one here in Woods Hole, in fact a few
are very odd.
One by the light house reads, something like, approaching sea cliff,do not
yield.
Another says STOP....DEAD END...OCEAN
We have a lot of tourists that ask.
"What bridge do I take to get to Nantucket?"
We then say"No bridge, you take the tunnel"
Only kidding we try to be nice to the touristos...
Oh
I went and checked out Lucy.
Pretty : )
I also tried to find a pic of you?
Any there?
J1Boss
>Oh
>I went and checked out Lucy.
>Pretty : )
>I also tried to find a pic of you?
>Any there?
>
>Paulette~
I'll e-mail you. I have some photos of my dogs on various posts on the PCF
boards as well - have you ever been to those? Puppy pics of Franklin, pics of
former dogs, etc. I need to do a page!
Mary Healey
>
> Do you not watch TV at all, then Nancy?
Not Nancy, but I watch quite a bit of television. Just not any of the
shows you asked about. Frasier, Friends, and Cheers I've seen a few
times. The rest, well, I'd rather read a book. Or sleep. Or lance a
boil.
> I remember a childhood without TV.
Oh, please. Make a distinction between "deprived of television" and
"knows how to use the 'off' switch".
About the only current television I make time to watch is "The West
Wing".
--
Mary H. & the Ames National Zoo: Raise a Fund ("Regis");
ANZ Sam-I-Am, CGC; ANZ Noah Doll, CGC; ANZ Babylon Ranger, CGC; ANZ
MarmaDUKE
felines, finches and a fish
Cindy
Kind2dogs <kind...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>--Cindy, a "yank" who has spent at least two months driving thru Britain
>
>Hmmmm that is so odd me thinking of you as a Yankee.
I know, that's why I put it in quotes :).
>I know that we are Yanks to all over there,but we New England Yankees think
>everyone else is a Southerner or a Westerner.
Yep, I consider myself a westerner or californian.
>We have ROTARIES here and people from out of the area,are *frozen to their
>wheel* when they come to one.
They fluster me, but that's because THEY GO THE WRONG WAY!! They're
supposed to be clockwise!
(My first traffic circles were British roundabouts :)
--Cindy
Cindy
Pat Meadows <p...@meadows.pair.com> wrote:
>On 12 Jun 2001 15:31:49 GMT, kind...@aol.com (Kind2dogs)
>wrote:
>
>>One thing though, America having so many distinct regions and accents and
>>people what you might think is normal behavior and speech might not be to me.
>>
>>Where are you?
>>
>
>four years we've lived in Delaware, New Jersey, and
>Maryland.
No wonder you think traffic is horrible over here... Might as
well move to Boston and be done with it :D
--Cindy
Karen DuChateaux
>
>
> West coast US, piece of cake. Big wide streets, everything is lit
> (well for the most part), signs everywhere. East coast, well...
>
> --Cindy
What always made me crazy was going someplace different and having a
local give directions. "Two blocks past soanso's house, turn left at the
second stop sign, third drive on the right, then turn left again.." Only
works for other locals. "You know where soandso used to live when he was
still married to whatsername? The brown house across the street from
there." Compound that with an unfortunate propensity in some areas to
rename streets regularly in honor of someone. Hell, I hever knew what
all the street names were in the _very_ small town I lived in for 30+
years. Some of the ones I did know weren't even 'legal' streets, they
never showed up on street maps.
But I also drove from Alaska to Buffalo simply by turning right at
Anchorage and left at Denver. Then back again.
(karibear)(what are street signs, anyway?)
Kind2dogs
>From: Karen DuChateaux kar...@openaccess.org
>Date: Tue, Jun 12, 2001 1:20 PM
>Message-id: <3B264F6E...@openaccess.org>
Here when someone asks if we know how to get someone the usual response is NO.
Karen DuChateaux
But when it's a relative who says 'go past the Taco Time to the Subway,
then left at the next light - oh, the Taco TIme is 2 miles down..' we're
talking MILES of urban sprawl here. Or 'remeber that place in south
county where we had breakfast 3 days ago?' I never did figure out where
I was. At least I kind of did, but only for places I remembered from 35
years earlier. Sigh.
(karibear)
Kind2dogs
>Message-id: <lglcit8v4b1aichg1...@4ax.com>
>
>On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:46:56 GMT, tit...@eris.io.com (Cindy)
>wrote:
>
>>In article <q6gcitcm7ohq0arf6...@4ax.com>,
>>Pat Meadows <p...@meadows.pair.com> wrote:
>>>On 12 Jun 2001 15:31:49 GMT, kind...@aol.com (Kind2dogs)
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>One thing though, America having so many distinct regions and accents
>and
>>>>people what you might think is normal behavior and speech might not be
>to me.
>>>>
>>>>Where are you?
>>>>
>>>
>>>That's true. We're in Pennsylvania now, but during the past
>>>four years we've lived in Delaware, New Jersey, and
>>>Maryland.
Oh gee I have to say I think Pennsylvania people are an odd bunch.
Very friendly though.
Maybe too friendly.
I go down to York a few times a year on business and I have to say the only
thing I eat down there is CRAB.
Cakes, soft shell, and steamed blue, with lots of bay seasoning.
I do like the whole eating of the blue crabs though. The newspaper for a table
cloth, the little wooden mallet and the bucket.
Oh and the beer is Reingling?
I cannot even understand their speech.
A HOUSE is a HOSS...
Most of the food is heavy and greasy
People smoke everywhere!
AND you can't buy beer in the stores just at approved places that you buy by
the case..warm...
If you want beer you have to go to a bar room.
I found one, and went in.
A BIKER BAR.
All the woman had blonde teased hair,and were wearing tank tops and had
tattoos.
Kinda scary.
Anyway I went in and spoke to the women first, so they wouldn't get
jealous,(new girl in bar syndrome)and had a few JD's while waiting for the bar
tendress to give me my two six packs.
They thought I was a foreigner for sure, but you know what?
It was one of the nicest times I had down there.
So even tough people are SO ODD, once you get to know them,they come around and
don't seem so odd anymore. : )
Paulette~
Kind2dogs
>From: Karen DuChateaux kar...@openaccess.org
>Date: Tue, Jun 12, 2001 1:49 PM
>Message-id: <3B265622...@openaccess.org>
What is really funny is when my husband is giving directions to someone how to
get to our home, and they are SO DIFFERENT than mine.
Paulette~
Robin Nuttall
> >4. Americans (in public at least) are chattier and more
> >outgoing with strangers.
>
> NOT HERE. we are not a friendly bunch at all.
> In fact when someone gets a bit too familiar,our antennae goes up.
> We don't want our space invaded.
I think that's an urban/rural, northeast vs midwest and south thing. I
grew up in KY and live in MO, and most people are both chatty and nice.
It's common here, when driving country roads, to have the person in the
oncoming car wave at you as you cross paths. Not a huge wave, just a
finger (no, not the middle one) or a nod.
>
> >5. Our road signs (directional signs) are horrendously
> >confusing and were seemingly made by a tribe of migratory
> >idiots who travel throughout the USA doing road 'signage'
> >designed to confuse the unwary and lure him in the wrong
> >direction...
I don't agree. Missouri signs are, in general, extremely clear. Now I
did notice in Texas they must have sign police who dole out signs only
on an "as needed" basis. In Missouri you get at least 2 or 3 warnings of
an upcoming exit, city, whatever. In Texas, if you see a sign to turn on
X highway up the road 3 miles, well get ready to turn because they will
NOT tell you again that it's X highway. :)
Now what's maddening in Missouri are the county road designations. Each
county in Missouri has 2 lane county roads designated by letter. So that
means that there is a Rt Z in almost every county of the state! Some of
them fairly close together! Very weird.
Elizabeth Naime
> What always made me crazy was going someplace different and having a
> local give directions. "Two blocks past soanso's house, turn left at the
> second stop sign, third drive on the right, then turn left again.." Only
> works for other locals. "You know where soandso used to live when he was
I think this is a local thing in many places, certainly in the rural areas
I've lived in. We lived in "the old John Hagen place" for several years;
the Hagens having moved out several occupancies ago. In a different
location (where my parents settled in for good), the Local Landmark is a
gas (petrol) station at the intersection of two paved roads (a 2-lane US
highway and a similar County Road, for those who know what I mean). It's
always been a gas station when I've driven by -- but in directions it has
always been referred to as "the old Quality Oil station", even though it
was no longer Quality Oil when the family moved there more than 2 decades
ago. It became something of a family joke; mention a place no one has
ever heard of, the response is "Hmm, where is that from Quality Oil?"
Until quite recently, rural roads were not officially named. There were
names like "stepladder road" and "Tongie road" and so forth, but you had
to be from around there to know which road they were talking about! In
recent years there has been a push to name all roads, even the unpaved
ones, so that emergency personnel can find the place if you dial 911. In
my parents' county, they just slapped numbers on all the roads -- 900 E,
600 N. I don't know what the reference point is, but there probably is
one, as 800 E is realiably west of 900 E and 1000 E reliably further east,
which makes finding a given location easier. In the neighboring county
where I live, they took local names when they could find them and slapped
them onto signs, which isn't as useful for navigating, but I'm pleased to
live on Cantrell Road rather than 1250 N or some such. I still miss the
combined anonymity to townies and "everybody knows your name" informality
of "Rural Route 2", though.
So, where are you, from Quality Oil?
Elizabeth and the menagerie (living on what should have been named
Snapping Turtle Road)
Elizabeth Naime
> What is really funny is when my husband is giving directions to someone how to
> get to our home, and they are SO DIFFERENT than mine.
Same here! But actualy it's a Good Thing for me. Describing the exact
same route, we use different directions. I navigate by left and right
turns, and landmarks. Tell me to turn west at Watsis Road and go two
miles and I will arrive three hours late after a fasinating, though
frustrating, drive around the countryside. DH has a compass in his head,
always knows what his odometer reading is, and has an uncanny knack for
finding his way back to any place he's been to once (I take several trips
before the route is committed to memory and I can dispense with written
directions).
So for most repair people etc. who are used to getting direction and
mileage, I say "just a minute -- I'll put my husband on the 'phone." For
all I know, some of their drivers then do what I do, which is pull out a
map and translate it to left and right turns!
Elizabeth and the menagerie
Kind2dogs
>From: els...@falcon.cc.ku.edu (Elizabeth Naime)
>Date: Tue, Jun 12, 2001 3:25 PM
>Message-id: <9g5qc3$l6s$1...@news.cc.ukans.edu>
Heehee
Well with me I get VERY specific but unlike my husband I do not give directions
by N.S.E.W
Here though it is amazing how many people will say the South bedroom or the
East parlour....
It is a good thing though when you are out navigating.
Karen DuChateaux
>
> I think this is a local thing in many places, certainly in the rural areas
> I've lived in. We lived in "the old John Hagen place" for several years;
> the Hagens having moved out several occupancies ago. In a different
> location (where my parents settled in for good), the Local Landmark is a
> gas (petrol) station at the intersection of two paved roads (a 2-lane US
> highway and a similar County Road, for those who know what I mean). It's
> always been a gas station when I've driven by -- but in directions it has
> always been referred to as "the old Quality Oil station", even though it
> was no longer Quality Oil when the family moved there more than 2 decades
> ago. It became something of a family joke; mention a place no one has
> ever heard of, the response is "Hmm, where is that from Quality Oil?"
Agreed, as far as rural areas. The one that made me most nuts was in St
Louis County, though, and to some extent in the city also. Just try to
find a neighborhood that 'everybody' knows except the mapmakers.
A lot of the directions where I lived in AK were like your area. 'Behind
the KI' - except the KI got sold and renamed 20-odd years earlier. Only
newcomers ever knew or remembered the new name, to anyone who'd been
there awhile, it was always 'the KI'. It was finally sold again recently
and the original name restored [g].
> Until quite recently, rural roads were not officially named. There were
> names like "stepladder road" and "Tongie road" and so forth, but you had
> to be from around there to know which road they were talking about! In
> recent years there has been a push to name all roads, even the unpaved
> ones, so that emergency personnel can find the place if you dial 911.
One in particular I'm thinking of was originally a trail several miles
long to a house, very remote 40 years ago. Then the area was built up
and the 'road' improved - meaning it's still one lane but driveable most
of the year without 4X4. Even though it is in a road maintenance
contract area, it is still considered a private road and doesn't show up
on any maps, other than official ones from the local gov't. As far as
the 911 thing, they renumbered the streets about 4 years ago
specifically for the 911 system. A year and a half ago, I called 911 to
report a fire, and danged if the operator didn't use the old pre-change
address anyway when she relayed the message to the fire dept.
THe worst problem I ever had was when I moved ONTO the road system 15
years ago. We'd had a phone for years, but in the meantime, the phone
company was sold nad the main office was no longer local. When I wanted
to have my service moved to a different place, I got into a real
knockdown verbal brawl with some twit who told me I couldn't _possibly_
have a phone because they didn't install them anywhere that wasn't on a
road in the first place (which they really did, they strung wires
through the forest and under the lake). No matter how many times I told
her I was CALLING from that off-road phone, it just never sank in. I
finally had to chase down one of the repairmen driving down the road and
tell him what I needed.
> So, where are you, from Quality Oil?
Turn left, second right, first driveway on the right. ;-)
(karibear)
Kind2dogs
>From: tit...@eris.io.com (Cindy)
>Date: Tue, Jun 12, 2001 12:46 PM
>Message-id: <kHrV6.40694$Uo3.1...@news6.giganews.com>
>
>Ya know I never thought about that before!
Twzl, Sligo and Roy Happy Together
>West coast US, piece of cake. Big wide streets, everything is lit
>(well for the most part), signs everywhere. East coast, well...
Well? If you don't know where it is, why would you want to go there?
Signs, smigns.
Ann, Twzl, Sligo and Roy
--
==========================================================================
Its up to your government to streamline the same laws to all states. Its
hardly surprising so much abuse happens when there is no uniformity.<Patch>
Karen J. Cravens
<yVqV6.40642$Uo3.1...@news6.giganews.com>:
>East coast, well...
Pennsylvania Turnpike. I almost drove off the road laughing on one of the
exit ramps. First sign warned about the steep curve, with a suggested
speed. The second sign was a hand pointing at the viewer with "THIS MEANS
YOU!"
Heh.
--
Karen J. Cravens
Sequoia: Female GSD ex-stray parvo-survivor
Sadie: Female Greyhound ex-shelter-dumpee, no racing tattoos
Nancy Holmes or Nelson Ruffin
<shrug> Watching stupid people do things loses pretty much for me -
especially when its the same things week after week. My feeling is most of
those shows are set up for little kids to watch or more likely written by
people who have no connections to real life at all.
I'd not only rather read a book than watch any of those shows, I can't see
the point of even having the tv on in the house when that is all the kind of
programming that is available.
Nancy
roo <r...@kanga.net> wrote in message
news:9g4ksf$97l$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Do you not watch TV at all, then Nancy?
snip
Kind2dogs
>From: Helle Haugenes haug...@idi.ntnu.no
>Date: Mon, Jun 11, 2001 1:25 PM
>Message-id: <l9v9its97iu0ne2q1...@4ax.com>
>
>On 11 Jun 2001 17:05:28 GMT, kind...@aol.com (Kind2dogs) wrote:
>
>[..]
>>>Frasier
>>>Friends
>>>Cheers?
>
>Me too.. watch them, I mean. In addition I watch ER (it's getting a
>little old isn't it?) and Judging Amy (Is she ever going to have an
>affair with Bruce, her assistant, or is that only my imagination?).
Never have watched Judging Amy, and only sometimes on late night or whatever
have I seen repeats of ER.
>[..]
>>Hmmmm Well don't go see the PERFECT STORM, as it is a bogus account of
>>swordfishermen, and I know of what I speak.
>
>How funny you should say that, Paulette. I saw it two days ago and
>guess who I thought about; You! :-) And now you're telling me it's
>bogus :-( What about the characters? I loved them!
It is not how swordfishermen are.
My husband was and is a harpooner and he thought the thing was BOGUS along with
all our fishermen friends.
Myself I have been out on a swordboat as cook for a few weeks at a time, and
the fishing is not like what is in the movie.
Swordfish do not come up on the boat like that, you don't hook em like that,
even IF you are long lining instead of harpooning, and the gear was not right.
or I should say some gear was finest kind but not enough gear for a sword
boat., and not used and placed properly on the boat.
Another thing you wouldn't say going DOWNSTAIRS you would say below, and the
captains word is LAW, at least the boats I have been on, and I have been on
quite a few.
Oh yes, and REAL COMMERCIAL FISHERMEN here do not use the term NOR EASTER..
it's Northeaster...
Another thing we don't talk about 90 foot waves, we would say it is white
capping and way choppy, and HUMMING.
AND that scene with the boat going straight up, well that was so phony.
When we had that storm I lost a barn, and about a dozen trees and my other
place right on the Atlantic, was filed up about 10 feet inside, and we lost
over 100 feet of beach frontage.
About 20 homes of our neighbours were destroyed, just gone, swept away. : (
It was a terrible storm here and much damage.
The best part of the movie was when they were at the bar.
Fisherman are LIKE THAT.
They come in with LOTS OF MOOLAH drink much and then go out to sea again.
They party hard and work hard.
You know when the book first came out I started to read it and right away I
decided not to go any further.
He writes of going below to clean the spark plugs.
Well fishing boats do not have spark plugs.
They are diesel engines.
So right there and then I said, this book is not for me.
Oh gee I could go on a rant about the authour, as he lives near and I have had
dealings ...
A better book is the one written by a woman swordfish captain who was
characterized in the Perfect Storm, Linda Greenlaw.
And she has a Chessie : )
Woof
Paulette~
Karen J. Cravens
cc1.aol.com>:
> He writes of going below to clean the spark plugs.
> Well fishing boats do not have spark plugs.
> They are diesel engines.
> So right there and then I said, this book is not for me.
Sounds like the author was put on by his technical sources. When he(?)
writes an airplane story, he'll probably have the mechanics bring out a
bucket of propwash...
roo
And would any of them give us ignorant Brits a better understanding of the
US?
We get Open University programs late at night, which can be fun to watch,
even if you don't do the course.
But I have to admit to being a fan of 'rubbish TV' partly because it appeals
to my sense of the absurd. Even J***y Sp****r (sorry Cindy!).
Alikat
"Nancy Holmes or Nelson Ruffin" <fmka...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:9g6gjh$o25$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
Kind2dogs
>Date: Tue, Jun 12, 2001 11:55 PM
>Message-id: <Xns90BEE967...@192.168.0.3>
Yup
It really is aggravating when you really have lived the life and it is so
misconstrued.
It gets worse as he lives near...
Sometimes ignorance is bliss.
Amy Dahl
>
> We need to learn about each other's cultures to communicate in this ng, eg
> language differences.
>
> The way we in Britain learn about you guys in the States is through TV.
>
> So my question is, which of these TV programs we get in Britain gives an
> accurate (if only partial) portrayal of US society:
>
I don't believe a question of that kind can be answered by a US
native who has only experience of his or her own, American
perspective. What you want to know is about the differences
between us, those aspects of "being American" which are
distinct from British life and identity. In principle you
would need someone with a knowledge of British perspective
to answer that question.
As a sort of analogy, here's something I noticed about accents.
Good or bad, I tend to be something of a chameleon with respect
to the way I speak. I want to fit in, I guess, not sound
glaringly different, like I'm stubbornly speaking a different
language than all around me. Besides, in the chemistry lab, if
you can't get something so basic as water because nobody
recognizes that "wadder" is the same as "woh-tah," you have
a problem.
When I modified the way I spoke, I tended to focus most on
vowel sounds and some consonant sounds. One day my landlady's
children were playing in the back garden and the sound of their
play drifted my way. They were playing cowboys and indians, for
which, of course, one must put on an American accent. The boys
focused on a different aspect of speech--the length and stress
of the syllables.
This is getting long. My opinion, having lived in both countries,
that the differences in attitudes, understanding, and basic
temperament are profound, also it's difficult or impossible for
me to describe one in terms of the other. Sort of a "you can't
get there from here" situation. I could recite a few
superficial differences, but that's about it.
Amy Dahl
Leah
>Same here! But actualy it's a Good Thing for me. Describing the exact
>same route, we use different directions. I navigate by left and right
>turns, and landmarks. Tell me to turn west at Watsis Road and go two
>miles and I will arrive three hours late after a fasinating, though
>frustrating, drive around the countryside. DH has a compass in his head,
>always knows what his odometer reading is, and has an uncanny knack for
>finding his way back to any place he's been to once (I take several trips
>before the route is committed to memory and I can dispense with written
>directions).
My husband *almost* gives good directions. Unfortunately, he has a bad habit
of forgetting to include an important turn. Then when I yell at him for
getting me lost, he tells me I should have *known* to turn at the so-and-so,
even though it wasn't in the directions. :}
Since I'm totally food-oriented, my directions are all based on restaurants.
"Go past the Taco Bell, and turn right at the Steak 'n Shake. Then just after
the Thai House, look for a road on the left inbetween McDonald's and Burger
King."
Learn How to Can Spam
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DogStar716
>> (well for the most part), signs everywhere. East coast, well...
>>
>> --Cindy
Try driving in Utah. Most of the streets are numbered directions. Like, 1200
N. 1400 E. Back when they invented Utah <G> they made the Temple the
centerpiece and all streets radiated out from there.
You can be driving on 1200 N, looking for 350 E, and then suddenly be going
West on 1900 S :)
Took me a year or so to be able to navigate, and I still will use buildings and
markers instead of directions.
Dogstar716
Come see Gunnars Life: http://hometown.aol.com/dogstar716/index.html
Cindy
Amy Dahl <a...@oakhillkennel.com> wrote:
>This is getting long. My opinion, having lived in both countries,
>that the differences in attitudes, understanding, and basic
>temperament are profound, also it's difficult or impossible for
>me to describe one in terms of the other. Sort of a "you can't
>get there from here" situation. I could recite a few
>superficial differences, but that's about it.
This is very true: I would have to say the same for the US and Mexico,
having lived in both. Like I said, come on over...
--Cindy
Karen DuChateaux
I'd say that's true of the US, period. There are some massive regional
differences, and some equally massive differences between urban/rural
within the same regions. Going from one part of the country to another
is much like visiting a foreign country, only with the added hassle of a
'common' language that isn't all that common.
(karibear)
Karen J. Cravens
<20010613101639...@ng-fq1.aol.com>:
>You can be driving on 1200 N, looking for 350 E, and then suddenly be
>going West on 1900 S :)
I used to play paintball at a field located at the corner of 119th St. and
119th St.
Specifically, the corner of West 119th Street South and South 119th Street
West.
dianne marie schoenberg
>I'd say that's true of the US, period. There are some massive regional
>differences, and some equally massive differences between urban/rural
>within the same regions.
Absolutely. When I was 18, I moved from from a small town on
the west coast to the outskirts of a major city on the east
coast and it was MAJOR culture shock. Then moved to a different
city on the east coast and it was completely different there
than the first eastern city. I've never lived in the midwest
or the south, but have no doubt that there are significant
cultural differences there as well.
And just last year I moved from a large western city to a
rural area just 60 miles away and again was quite surprised
by the different pace of life and ways people treat each
other here. It *is* a pain to have to drive 45+ minutes to
get anywhere, but OTOH I am MUCH happier here than in the
city. (And even when I was living in the city, there were
also some profound differences between neighborhoods!)
I can completely understand drawing the inference from
American TV that things are more or less homogenous here--
but trust me, it's NOT so :-).
Dianne
Robin Nuttall
> And just last year I moved from a large western city to a
> rural area just 60 miles away and again was quite surprised
> by the different pace of life and ways people treat each
> other here. It *is* a pain to have to drive 45+ minutes to
> get anywhere, but OTOH I am MUCH happier here than in the
> city. (And even when I was living in the city, there were
> also some profound differences between neighborhoods!)
>
> I can completely understand drawing the inference from
> American TV that things are more or less homogenous here--
> but trust me, it's NOT so :-).
When you think about it, it makes perfect sense. I'm not sure that
Europeans really have a scope on how BIG the U.S. is, and I know that I
didn't know how "little" Europe was until I travelled there.
In the time it takes me to drive from my house to my Mom's house, I
could be from London to the Highlands of Scotland, or from Frankfurt
Germany to the heart of the Austrian alps. No one in Europe seems to
find it odd that within a 2 to 5 hour drive they can go to a
*completely* different culture, with different languages, customs, and
even different ethnic looks. So why would it be odd for America to vary
in different parts of the country?
I live in the middle of the country, Missouri. Last year I drove to San
Deigo, 2,100 miles. And that was halfway across the country, not all the
way. How many countries would I cross if I started that trip in France
and headed east???
Amy Hendrix
news:Xns90BF841E...@192.168.0.3:
> I used to play paintball at a field located at the corner of 119th St.
> and 119th St.
>
> Specifically, the corner of West 119th Street South and South 119th
> Street West.
Aaaauugh! My brane just exploded! And I thought it was bad in that stretch
of Virginia where you're simultaneously going south on I-81 and going north
on I-77 (or was it the other way around?).
Karen DuChateaux
Not to mention that in many places, avenues go north/south while streets
go east/west. or in other places 75th Ave NE is north/south while NE
75th Ave runs east/west.
One place I lived, the house had 4 separate street addresses. One each
for the phone company, the electric company, planning & zoning, and the
fire department. If we'd had mail delivery, there probably would have
been 5. My directions were always the same - first driveway on the right
after you turn off the highway.
(karibear)
Amy Dahl
Cindy wrote:
>
> OK, let me ask you. How much would we learn about you from:
>
> Absolutely Fabulous
> Benny Hill
> Monty Python
> etc
> ?
>
Well, I had a number of experiences for which I felt well-prepared
by viewing Monty Python, starting the very first morning when my
door opened and a woman, sounding exactly like John Cleese's
falsetto, poked her head around the door and said, "moh-nin'?"
I kept my savings in a Building Society, which always reminded me
of the Society for Putting Things on Top of Other Things.
I had to break my habitual identification of British accent = joke,
though. Laughing at everything anyone said didn't seem like the
done thing.
Amy Dahl
P.S. The two American shows which my British friends and I used to watch
were Dynasty and the original Star Trek. They loved to mock
American materialism while watching the first, and "American Sixties
morality" while watching the second. And, of course, to tease us
Yanks about living just like the Carringtons, or whatever their name was.
Amy Dahl
Robin Nuttall wrote:
>
> No town has ever had
> the number of murders as Cabot Cove (Murder, She Wrote). Nor does NYC
> see close to the number of murders depicted on NYPD Blue.
Or Sparta, Mississippi, but having moved to the South from
elsewhere I find that "In the Heat of the Night" does rather
faithfully depict certain types. Especially Carroll O'Connor's
character--I know someone exactly like him.
Amy Dahl