Dog is choking himself to death...

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martian dreams

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Feb 20, 2002, 9:02:11 AM2/20/02
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I'm taking care of a dog who gets *extremely* hyper whenever I take him out
for a walk. He's practically dragging me all over the place, madly pulling
on his leash like his life depended on it. That doesn't sound so unusual...
except this 50-lb dog is practically choking himself to death because he
pulls so damn hard.

I've tried standing my ground (ie remain stationary) whenever he pulls, but
it's still not discouraging him. He'll pull as hard as he can, as far as
the leash lets him, until he's literally standing on his hind legs with his
front paws flailing madly about in the air. One time, his 1-inch wide nylon
leash snapped/tore off because of all his pulling. He does this every time,
even after he's already done his business in the woods.

The worst part is, I'm pretty sure he's damaging his throat with this
behavior. After our regular walks, he's *literally* coughing, wheezing,
choking, and gasping. It's like he just got strangled. It's pathetic... I
don't think he's even aware how much he's hurting himself. He's quite
literally choking himself with the choke collar. As soon as he's back
indoors, he's as docile as any dog I've seen.


Lori Reynolds

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Feb 20, 2002, 9:48:55 AM2/20/02
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How about putting a harness on the dog instead of a collar?
--
Lori in Peoria, IL with the Sighthound Six-Pack

"martian dreams" <martia...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
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diana

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Feb 20, 2002, 11:22:22 AM2/20/02
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"martian dreams" <martia...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a50a9c$5mb$1...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu...

> I'm taking care of a dog who gets *extremely* hyper whenever I take him


out
> for a walk. He's practically dragging me all over the place, madly
pulling
> on his leash like his life depended on it. That doesn't sound so
unusual...
> except this 50-lb dog is practically choking himself to death because he
> pulls so damn hard.

[..]


>
> The worst part is, I'm pretty sure he's damaging his throat with this
> behavior. After our regular walks, he's *literally* coughing, wheezing,
> choking, and gasping. It's like he just got strangled. It's pathetic...
I
> don't think he's even aware how much he's hurting himself. He's quite
> literally choking himself with the choke collar. As soon as he's back
> indoors, he's as docile as any dog I've seen.
>

You can be sure he's damaging his neck and throat ~ it is a danger to
himself and to you so long as you allow this to happen.. ie the forse of him
pulling could cause you to lose balance & fall.

Choke collars are nasty peices of equipment and by all accounts are
considered outdated as even a training aid, (as they were intended to be
used). More generally they are used as you have been using them which,
please don't feel like I'm slating you, is of no good use whatsoever. I
would say about 80% of the dogs I see wear them ~ and I nag where I can
(just got Cal's dad to invest in a nice soft leather collar!... I'm now
working on pursuading him to tell Cal what to do rather than using the lead
like a handle.)

Throw it out or find some other use for it, it doesn't belong anywhere near
your dog. Buy a nice flat collar and find some training classes where you
will be taught how to walk together properly. In the meantime, invest in a
gentle leader/halti which can't cause him serious damage, but will stop him
putting all that pressure on his neck, and you will have more control.

Diana


>
>
>


Dirt

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Feb 20, 2002, 11:52:40 AM2/20/02
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> I'm taking care of a dog who gets *extremely* hyper whenever
> I take him out for a walk. He's practically dragging me all
> over the place, madly pulling on his leash like his life
> depended on it. That doesn't sound so unusual... except
> this 50-lb dog is practically choking himself to death
> because he pulls so damn hard.


I know it would only be treating the symptom and not the
problem, but you could get the dog a harness. We put one on
Oliver because he has a "delicate" throat. It's not that he
chokes himself as you described, but a relatively light tug from
him with a normal collar and leash will result in the most
alarming asmatic wheezing sounds. It's like his throat has
closed and he can't breath and it might last for 30 seconds.
With the harness he's happy as a clam and wheeze free.

-Dirt-

Melinda Shore

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Feb 20, 2002, 12:13:03 PM2/20/02
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In article <Xns91BB6ECF09E71...@151.164.30.48>,

Dirt <dir...@swbell.net> wrote:
>I know it would only be treating the symptom and not the
>problem, but you could get the dog a harness.

I probably wouldn't - it would protect the dog from injury
to its throat but decrease the amount of control. I'd think
I'd go with a head halter first, but I hate to suggest the
use of devices without someone experienced there to show the
poster how to use them. Note, too, that the poster doesn't
own this dog.

I think I'd try bribing the dog, frankly, if it's highly
food motivated. I had a good experience clicker training
Emmett not to pull, although it flies out the window when
I've got two or more dogs out (we're working on it).
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com
If you send me harassing email, I'll probably post it

diddy

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Feb 20, 2002, 12:51:26 PM2/20/02
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A harness evenly distributes his weight so he can pull harder.
I would look into a halti or an antipull martingale.
DEFINITELY would invest in training!

--
diddy

---
POSTING TO THIS NEWSGROUP IS THE ONLY WAY TO REACH ME: THIS ACCOUNT
REJECTS ALL EMAIL. SPAMMERS CAN HARVEST AWAY AND BE DAMNED!!!

Chris Jung

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Feb 20, 2002, 1:39:09 PM2/20/02
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"Melinda Shore" <sh...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:a50lev$o5g$1...@panix2.panix.com...

> In article <Xns91BB6ECF09E71...@151.164.30.48>,
> Dirt <dir...@swbell.net> wrote:
> >I know it would only be treating the symptom and not the
> >problem, but you could get the dog a harness.
>
> I probably wouldn't - it would protect the dog from injury
> to its throat but decrease the amount of control. I'd think
> I'd go with a head halter first, but I hate to suggest the
> use of devices without someone experienced there to show the
> poster how to use them. Note, too, that the poster doesn't
> own this dog.
>
> I think I'd try bribing the dog, frankly, if it's highly
> food motivated. I had a good experience clicker training
> Emmett not to pull, although it flies out the window when
> I've got two or more dogs out (we're working on it).
> --

This past week, I was dog sitting a happy lunatic of a Labrador. She is a
sweet dog but a powerhouse of a puller with the neck of a bull. In this
Lab's case, at first I didn't even try to work on curing her of pulling,
since she was (IMHO) under exercised and thus out-of-her-little-mind with
pent up excitement. After some looong walks (three times a day), she
started to calm down and I could do a little training.

I taught her the "whoa" command which means slow down and pay attention to
me. It was pretty simple, when she pulled, I said whoa and put on the brakes
(acted like a tree), sometimes even ran the other way. The instant she let
up on pulling or even better looked my way, I gave her a good girl, OK! and
let her go. Miss Labby figured out that "Whoa" meant Chris was goin' do
something nutty so I better watch her. And in Miss Labby's case, the
release after the whoa was a great reward. By the end of our week, I could
say "Whoa, " and she would stand (still antsy ) and thus I could pick up
poop AND keep my arms in their sockets. (Poop pickup during our earlier
walks was not fun and I should've asked for extra combat pay ;-))

IMHO, many cases of pulling comes from dogs that don't get enough exercise.
It's a vicious cycle: the dog pulls, the owner doesn't like that and walks
it less, the dog pulls like a nut because he has even more pent up energy,
on and on. I've dog sat a number of pullers. I'm a firm believer in a good
dog is a tired dog. The dogs I take care of get lots of walks and I find
that by the end of my petsitting most pulling problems are gone (for me at
least, this doesn't transfer to the owners.).

Chris and her polite smoothies,
Zeffie & Pablo


Jenn

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Feb 20, 2002, 2:58:38 PM2/20/02
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"Lori Reynolds" <lorire...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:rHOc8.26080$UT6....@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...

> How about putting a harness on the dog instead of a collar?
> --
> Lori in Peoria, IL with the Sighthound Six-Pack

I'm thinkin' Gentle Leader myself....
Jenn

Patch

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Feb 20, 2002, 4:51:08 PM2/20/02
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"diddy" <di...@nospam.diddy.net> wrote in message
news:3C73E21E...@nospam.diddy.net...

> Dirt wrote:
> >
> > > I'm taking care of a dog who gets *extremely* hyper whenever
> > > I take him out for a walk. He's practically dragging me all
> > > over the place, madly pulling on his leash like his life
> > > depended on it. That doesn't sound so unusual... except
> > > this 50-lb dog is practically choking himself to death
> > > because he pulls so damn hard.
> >
> > I know it would only be treating the symptom and not the
> > problem, but you could get the dog a harness. We put one on
> > Oliver because he has a "delicate" throat. It's not that he
> > chokes himself as you described, but a relatively light tug from
> > him with a normal collar and leash will result in the most
> > alarming asmatic wheezing sounds. It's like his throat has
> > closed and he can't breath and it might last for 30 seconds.
> > With the harness he's happy as a clam and wheeze free.
> >
> > -Dirt-
>
> A harness evenly distributes his weight so he can pull harder.

FALSE.

> I would look into a halti or an antipull >martingale.

Some harnesses / collars advertised as "anti-pull" dont do the job. A
standard Comfi harness - no, not a Canac tracking harness which looks
similar but isnt designed quite the same, do *not* increase pulling, they
decrese it, they allow the handler to communictate *properly* with the dog,
and therefore work excellently as a training aid.

Patch

Patch

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Feb 20, 2002, 4:47:12 PM2/20/02
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"Melinda Shore" <sh...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:a50lev$o5g$1...@panix2.panix.com...
> In article <Xns91BB6ECF09E71...@151.164.30.48>,
> Dirt <dir...@swbell.net> wrote:
> >I know it would only be treating the symptom and not the
> >problem, but you could get the dog a harness.
>
> I probably wouldn't - it would protect the dog from injury
> to its throat but decrease the amount of control.

Yawn.
NO IT WOULD NOT DECREASE CONTROL - IT *INCREASES* IT BUT WITHOUT THE BATTLE.

Got it this time ?

Patch

Ken & Eve

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Feb 20, 2002, 6:14:03 PM2/20/02
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Have the Vet or a good training School fit the dog with a Promise or Halti
head harness. AND start some dog obedience classes that teach motivational
training.
Eve

--
Eve & Ken Lowery
Brampton Ont Canada
jlwer...@rogers.com


"martian dreams" <martia...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
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Jerry Howe

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Feb 20, 2002, 7:06:51 PM2/20/02
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I'm thinkin it's all in the HANDS.... Like it sez in your FREE copy of my
FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method manual available for FREE at
http://www.doggydoright.com j;~)

"Jenn" <pywh...@powersurfEr.com> wrote in message
news:OdTc8.77320$A44.4...@news2.calgary.shaw.ca...

Jerry Howe

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Feb 20, 2002, 7:09:06 PM2/20/02
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BWWWAAAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!

"Melinda Shore" <sh...@panix.com> wrote in message
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Jerry Howe

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Feb 20, 2002, 7:09:48 PM2/20/02
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BUNK. You nearly killed your own dog "crate training" IT.

"diddy" <di...@nospam.diddy.net> wrote in message
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Jerry Howe

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Feb 20, 2002, 7:11:19 PM2/20/02
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You're full of crap, chris.

"Chris Jung" <cj...@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
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James D. Lilly

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Feb 20, 2002, 7:17:49 PM2/20/02
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Gentle leader is my vote.
>
>
>
>
People should be allowed to fail, but do not protect the lazy or incompetent;
Above all, people should be allowed to succeed and be rewarded for meeting or
exceeding the terms of the contract.
Monty Roberts, The Man Who Listens to Horses

Helle Haugenes

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Feb 20, 2002, 7:41:25 PM2/20/02
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On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:51:26 -0500, diddy <di...@nospam.diddy.net>
wrote:

OP wrote:
>> > I'm taking care of a dog who gets *extremely* hyper whenever
>> > I take him out for a walk. He's practically dragging me all
>> > over the place, madly pulling on his leash like his life
>> > depended on it. That doesn't sound so unusual... except
>> > this 50-lb dog is practically choking himself to death
>> > because he pulls so damn hard.

[..]

>A harness evenly distributes his weight so he can pull harder.

Sounds to me like this dog already pulls as hard as he can. I can't
see how wearing a harness will make him pull any harder than described
by the OP, but I *can* see how it will keep him from hurting his neck
and throat.

I am using harnesses on both my dogs, one (40 pounds) hardly ever
pulls and the other (30 pounds) pulls quite a bit still, equally hard
whether he's wearing a harness or a collar. He's learning to walk
nicely, but forgets himself when he's eager to get somewhere. He's
still just a puppy. I was using a collar in the beginning, but decided
to get a harness because I don't want him to injure himself while he's
learning not to pull.

Also, about better control with a collar than a harness; I find this
to be untrue. The only times the collar is better is when we are
standing close to people he wants to greet. Otherwise I feel in much
better control him with the harness. Another good thing is that the
harness is much better when it comes to getting the leash between the
legs and under the belly, which happened a lot with the collar. Even
my neighbor with a husky and a malamute walks both his dogs with
harnesses on and he's controlling them just fine (just in case the
weight issue is brought up).

[..]


>DEFINITELY would invest in training!

Yes, training the dog not to pull is a very good idea :-)

Helle
--

Helle Haugenes
http://www.pobox.com/~newshelle

Cindy

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Feb 20, 2002, 8:03:02 PM2/20/02
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In article <fpf87uo1j4brkobgj...@4ax.com>,

Helle Haugenes <news...@pobox.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:51:26 -0500, diddy <di...@nospam.diddy.net>
>wrote:
>
>OP wrote:
>>> > I'm taking care of a dog who gets *extremely* hyper whenever
>>> > I take him out for a walk. He's practically dragging me all
>>> > over the place, madly pulling on his leash like his life
>>> > depended on it. That doesn't sound so unusual... except
>>> > this 50-lb dog is practically choking himself to death
>>> > because he pulls so damn hard.
>[..]
>
>>A harness evenly distributes his weight so he can pull harder.
>
>Sounds to me like this dog already pulls as hard as he can.

Put a harness on the dog, and the choking point will no longer limit
his pulling. He'll be able to maximize the effectiveness of his
pulling by putting his entire weight -- his chest can take more than
his throat -- into the harness.

By way of example, imagine that you're trying to drag some furniture
away from the wall. If your carpet is a little slippery, you may find
you can't move it even hauling with all your strength. But if you brace
your feet against the wall, suddenly you can move it out. You're using
the same amt of strength either way, but in the latter case you can
make more effective use of it.

In this case I'd recommend either a pinch collar or a halter style collar.
For the latter, since the potential for injury is high, I would introduce
it to him slowly so that he is familiar with how it will control his head
in a much different way.

--CIndy

Jenn

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Feb 21, 2002, 12:27:38 AM2/21/02
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"James D. Lilly" <fuzzy...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020220191749...@mb-fn.aol.com...

Dear James,

Got something against GL's?

Jenn


Jeff Harper

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Feb 21, 2002, 1:35:51 AM2/21/02
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Start putting a harness on him for the walks, pronto. (Or an alternative if
you have someone experienced to teach you proper use.)

Then, work on the pulling. There are several ways. Get a book, join a
class, or read up online. The important thing is to be 100% consistent. If
you are not, you are mostly wasting your time.

Also, start out patiently teaching him in an environment with few
distractions and move up from there when he understands and has it down.

Again, be patient and consistent. Try to understand what's going on in his
excited mind. Oh boy, oh boy! A walk! Oh boy! Many dogs pull more while
walking a familiar route to a familiar destination--some may even feel that
their pulling in the past is what has gotten them there (the pulling was
perceived to have been rewarded).

Jeff

Jeff Harper
jeff#doplay.com


"martian dreams" <martia...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
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Alison

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Feb 21, 2002, 7:31:21 AM2/21/02
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"Patch" <d.guipag...@LOLntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:vTUc8.72106$YA2.9...@news11-gui.server.ntli.net...

>
>
> NO IT WOULD NOT DECREASE CONTROL - IT *INCREASES* IT BUT WITHOUT THE
BATTLE.
>
> Got it this time ?
>
> Patch
>

I didn't quite catch that. Could you say it again:)?
Alison

Alison

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Feb 21, 2002, 7:38:55 AM2/21/02
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"Chris Jung" <cj...@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:h3Sc8.105930$QG.24...@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com...
>

> IMHO, many cases of pulling comes from dogs that don't get enough


exercise.
> It's a vicious cycle: the dog pulls, the owner doesn't like that and walks
> it less, the dog pulls like a nut because he has even more pent up energy,
> on and on. I've dog sat a number of pullers. I'm a firm believer in a
good
> dog is a tired dog. The dogs I take care of get lots of walks and I find
> that by the end of my petsitting most pulling problems are gone (for me at
> least, this doesn't transfer to the owners.).
>
> Chris and her polite smoothies,
> Zeffie & Pablo
>

Hi Chris,
Very true and that's the same with recall. Dogs that get little
off -leash exercise are reluctant to come when called ,so they get even less
off-leash time It's Catch 22.
Alison


Melinda Shore

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Feb 21, 2002, 8:08:39 AM2/21/02
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In article <a524do$426lp$1...@ID-102001.news.dfncis.de>,

Jeff Harper <dummya...@doplay.com> wrote:
>Start putting a harness on him for the walks, pronto. (Or an alternative if
>you have someone experienced to teach you proper use.)

Boy, I just disagree with the harness suggestion. I agree
about the need to get pressure off the throat, but I think
that allowing the dog to drag the human across three
counties, which the harness will facilitate (particularly if
the dog is ignoring the person) is probably not a great
idea.

Lushious Lugs

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Feb 21, 2002, 8:44:02 AM2/21/02
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"Melinda Shore" <sh...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:a52rgn$if9$1...@panix2.panix.com...

I like the idea of a harness rather than a collar, but I think it might
confuse my girl at her age so I haven't switched her over ~ but I think
training the dog to walk nicely on or off any lead is the priority... maybe
a harness & a halti/head collar until he has learnt some manners.

--
See my dog Stone ~ July 5th on the birthday calendar.
The aad group web site: http://www.ourdogs.chilly-hippo.co.uk


Jerry Howe

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Feb 21, 2002, 8:54:00 AM2/21/02
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"James D. Lilly" <fuzzy...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020220191749...@mb-fn.aol.com...

Hello James,

The main problem our OP is having is in his hands, not in his dog. There's
two problems here. One, the OP never did the "join up" exercise as taught in
the Family Leadership Exercise taught in your FREE copy of my FREE Wits' End


Dog Training Method manual available for FREE at

http://www.doggydoright.com, so the dog has no desire to pay attention to
his "handler" and two, the handler doesn't understand the mechanism of
positive thigmotaxis, the opposition reflex.

Once they figger out these simple facts, they won't have MOST of their
behavior problems.


> <"Terri"@cyberhighway

> > Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
> > He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
> > watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
> > Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
> > come forward and actually believe in his training manual.

> Robert Crim writes:

> I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs since
> I freely admit to having read and, I hope, understood enough
> of the manual and it's counterparts by John Fisher and the
> posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe and use it. This naive
> child would like to say thank you to both Jerry and Marilyn for
> putting up with a constant barrage of really infantile crap at
> the hands of supposedly adult dog lovers.

> The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the nagging
> idea that if people like them had been posting earlier, maybe
> we would not have had to hold the head of a really
> magnificent animal in our arms while he was given the
> needle and having to hug him and wait until he gasped
> his last gasp.

> To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog into
> good behavior. Naive is believing that people that hide
> behind fake names are more honest than people that use
> their real names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog
> breeders and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY,
> j.h.) are the equal or better than those that have studied and
> lived by their craft for decades.

> "Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
> level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing that
> people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are going to
> just go away because you people act like fools. Why do you
> act like fools? I really have no idea, and I don't really care.

> > And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and actually
> > admit to buying and having success with his little black
> > box.

> I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and take
> it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and testing. You
> would never believe the results, so you'll never know.

> > Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
> > Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming to
> > him! LOL!

> I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
> Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve, eh?
> As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.

> >Terri

> Yes it was, and that is sad.

> Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to listen to the box
> first?)

THAT'S HOWE COME . FIGGER IT OUT. j;~)

Oh, hey? Lookey here whot I found:

"I don't see why anyone would want to choke or beat a dog,
or how any trainer could possibly get a good working dog by
making them unhapper, fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying
frosty dahl who continues:

"On the other extreme, the really hard dogs we have trained
require much more frequent and heavy application of
pressure (PAIN j.h.) to get the job done,

This is continued resistance to your increasing authority, and the
job is not done until it is overcome

Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper wield the stick, or do it
yourself. Tougher, less tractable dogs may require you to progress
to striking them more sharply

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the collar, even
the buckle on the collar. Persist! Eventually, the dog will give in

but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to escaping
theear pinch

You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell instead of your thumb
even get a studded collar and pinch the ear against that

Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so urgent that resisting
your will fades in importance.

CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever Ready Right Hand, As it
catches on, try using the stick and no ear pinch. When the dog is
digging out to beat the stick and seems totally reliable without any
ear pinch, you are finished

This is continued resistance to your increasing authority,
and the job is not done until it is overcome" If the dog drops it,
chuck it solidly under the chin, say "No! Hold!"

(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps because the ear is getting
tender, or the dog has decided it isn't worth it)" lying frosty
dahl.

And from terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure."

"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap," professora gingold.

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem Quite Harsh And
Cause You To Cringe. This Is A Normal Reaction The First Few
Times It Happens, But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine.

> > Jerome Bigge writes:
> > I do know that hitting, hurting your dog will often make the
> > dog either aggressive or a fear biter, neither of which we
> > want to do.

> And neither does anyone else, Jerome. No matter what Jerry Howe
> states.

> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

You're scary Marilyn.

Marilyn must be quite a disturbed individual. I feel very sorry
for her and her family.

BUT, giving you the benefit of the doubt, please provide a quote
(an original quote, not from one of Jerry Howe's heavily edited
diatribes) that shows a regular poster promoting
or using an abusive form of training.

--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

Jerry Howe

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Feb 21, 2002, 8:54:53 AM2/21/02
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"James D. Lilly" <fuzzy...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020220191749...@mb-fn.aol.com...

P.S. Monty Roberts is quite DESPISED here amongst our dog lovers who PREFER
to jerk and choke and shock and hang and kill dogs. Jerry.


Jerry Howe

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Feb 21, 2002, 8:56:50 AM2/21/02
to
Hello jenn,

There's nothing wrong with the GL. In fact, I was onto that before the first
head halter ever came out. HOWEver, the problem is not the "tools," it's the
HANDS... as taught in the Hot And Cold Exercise in your FREE copy of my FREE


Wits' End Dog Training Method manual available for FREE at
http://www.doggydoright.com

"Jenn" <pywh...@powersurfEr.com> wrote in message
news:ez%c8.80510$A44.4...@news2.calgary.shaw.ca...

Jerry Howe

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Feb 21, 2002, 9:04:44 AM2/21/02
to
The problems is MISHANDLING and INEFFECTIVE METHODS, not a lack of effort,
not the dog. Our "experts" training methods are the cause of most behavior
problems, and THAT'S HOWE COME they tell you to killfile Jerry, cause
Jerry's INFORMATION PROVES IT.

"Alison" <alis...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:a52pqe$480bn$1...@ID-80210.news.dfncis.de...

Jerry Howe

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Feb 21, 2002, 9:05:14 AM2/21/02
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Look up positive thigmotaxis.

"Alison" <alis...@btinternet.com> wrote in message

news:a52pc8$49c1r$1...@ID-80210.news.dfncis.de...

Jerry Howe

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Feb 21, 2002, 9:21:31 AM2/21/02
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Hello helle,

"Helle Haugenes" <news...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:fpf87uo1j4brkobgj...@4ax.com...


> On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:51:26 -0500, diddy <di...@nospam.diddy.net>
> wrote:

> OP wrote:
> >> > I'm taking care of a dog who gets *extremely* hyper whenever
> >> > I take him out for a walk. He's practically dragging me all
> >> > over the place, madly pulling on his leash like his life
> >> > depended on it. That doesn't sound so unusual... except
> >> > this 50-lb dog is practically choking himself to death
> >> > because he pulls so damn hard.
> [..]

> >A harness evenly distributes his weight so he can pull harder.

> Sounds to me like this dog already pulls as hard as he can.

You're a JOKE, helle. You're about as incompetent as a trainer could be,
without HURTING dogs like janet boss and lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn and sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM" mooreon or our professor
scruff shake and scream NO into its face dermer or professora 'chin chuck
absolutely doesn't mean slap the dog' gingold or lying frosty dahl beatin
dogs with sticks and pinching their ears into spikes on their collars.

> I can't see how wearing a harness will make him pull any harder than
described by the OP,

You meant to say you don't see HOWE wearing a harness will make him pull
LESS. Well,
that's EZ to explain, IF you understand the NATURE of the BEAST. You don't,
helle. You
understand BRIBES and FORCE, not training.

> but I *can* see how it will keep him from hurting his neck and throat.

BUT YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND HOWE IT BREAKS PULLING.

> I am using harnesses on both my dogs, one (40 pounds) hardly ever
> pulls and the other (30 pounds) pulls quite a bit still, equally hard
> whether he's wearing a harness or a collar.

Because you MISHANDLE the lead, pulling, and triggering positive
thUgmotaxis.

> He's learning to walk nicely, but forgets himself when he's eager to get
somewhere.

You're bullshitttin yourself, helle. Don't bullshit us, cause I'll blow your
cover.

> He's still just a puppy.

BUNK.

> I was using a collar in the beginning, but decided to get a harness
because
> I don't want him to injure himself while he's learning not to pull.

WHOA!!! You're bullshittin us again, helle. You're say you didn't want him
to
hurt himself while LEARNING not to pull? Pulling is TRIGGERED by INEFFECTIVE
HANDLING, helle. My student's dogs learn not to pull in under five minutes.

> Also, about better control with a collar than a harness;

THAT'S THE PROBLEM, you nit wit. You're FORCING CONTROL, and compelling
the dog OUT of control, through triggering the opposition refelx...positive
thUgmotaxis.

And you're too stupid to recognize that, cause it doesn't FEEL right not
FORCING control,
helle.

> I find this to be untrue.

That's cause as a dog trainer, you're INCOMPETENT, helle.

> The only times the collar is better is when we are
> standing close to people he wants to greet.

You're blowing smoke up your own arse, helle. Don't send it our way.

> Otherwise I feel in much better control him with the harness.

FEEL. You FEEL. You're choking your dog, and FEEL comfortable, but don't
FEEL comfortable when you're not forcing control.

> Another good thing is that the harness is much better when it comes to
> getting the leash between the legs and under the belly,

The goddamned leash isn't supposed to get beneath the dog if you're
HANDLING it properly... as taught in your FREE copy of my FREE


Wits' End Dog Training Method manual available for FREE at
http://www.doggydoright.com

> which happened a lot with the collar.

Because you mishandle the lead.

> Even my neighbor with a husky and a malamute walks both his dogs with
> harnesses on and he's controlling them just fine (just in case the
> weight issue is brought up).

Don't talk to us about weight, it's IRRELEVANT. A Chihuahua handles and
trains exactly the same as a Great Dane.

> > [..] DEFINITELY would invest in training!

BWWWAAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

> Yes, training the dog not to pull is a very good idea :-)

BWWWAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

> Helle

Get the helle outta here you incompetent double talker. Jerry.

> Helle Haugenes
> http://www.pobox.com/~newshelle

Jerry Howe

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Feb 21, 2002, 9:42:48 AM2/21/02
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Hello sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM" mooreon,

"Cindy" <tit...@io.com> wrote in message
news:aHXc8.129878$Re2.10...@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...

> Put a harness on the dog, and the choking po