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ping: Paul and Muttley

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Janet B

Sep 1, 2006, 6:22:02 PM9/1/06
Paul - my offer of FREE training for Muttley, if you're going to place
him, still stands. I'll want some information on the rescue
organization, but other than that, the offer is open. E-mail me
directly if you want to take advantage, and trust me, people drive a
whole lot further than you would, in order to take our [paid for]
classes. Take it or leave it, but don't say that help isn't readily
available. You can start Mondays, 9/11, Tuesdays, 9/5, or Saturdays,
10/7. I want Muttley to succeed. I'm willing to give away my
services in order for that to happen. Here it is - public knowledge -
all I want is to see a dog have a decent chance of a great, permanent

Janet Boss

Message has been deleted

Judith Althouse

Sep 1, 2006, 6:38:43 PM9/1/06
You have a good heart to offer to help Paul and Mutley by offering
your free services as a trainer. In the event Paul doesn't take you up
on your generous offer maybe whoever ends up with Mutley will.

Be Free,

Paul E. Schoen

Sep 1, 2006, 8:59:31 PM9/1/06

"Janet B" <> wrote in message


Thanks for the offer. Muttley was at one time under the care of Fallston
Animal Rescue Mission FARM), who may have named him "Buddy" or "Champ". My
friend Helene originally found him, and she arranged for me to pick him up
at the Jarrettsville Veterinary Clinic, who performed his exam, shots, and
castration. I took him to the same SPCA where you teach, and decided to do
something to save him from being put down.

I have learned that there are dog obedience classes at Lutherville-Timonium
Elementary and also Carroll Manor, but I don't know the times and dates. I
usually work in Westminster until 7 on Mondays (and Thursdays). I can
attend this coming Tuesday's class, which I assume is for owners only. By
then I should know details of the other classes. I will contact you
directly for more details and confirmation.

Paul and Muttley

Sep 1, 2006, 9:10:26 PM9/1/06
HOWEDY jaent you pathetic miserable stinkin lyin dog murderin
active acute chronic long term incurable mental case and professional
dog trainin FRAUD an SCAM ARTIST,

Janet B wrote:
> Paul - my offer of FREE training for Muttley,

You jerk choke shock crate intimidate surgically mutilate
and murder innocent defenseless dumb critters like HOWE
you done to that little DEAD DOG in "interested in hearing".

> if you're going to place him, still stands.

You mean on accHOWENT of YOU CAN'T TRAIN IT to get
along with his kat, AIN'T THAT the REASON he's GETTIN
RID of the dog, janet?

> I'll want some information on the rescue organization,


> but other than that, the offer is open.

Yeah. judith suggested you might wanna GIVE your "services"
the the NEW OWNER in the event paulie don't want you to
teach him HOWE to JERK an CHOKE and lock his dog in a box.

> E-mail me directly if you want to take advantage,

Here's what you'll TEACH him, janet:

Janet B
Date: Tues, Apr 12 2005 7:37 am
Email: Janet B <>

> Any suggestions before I drown the cat?
> Charlie

Clip his claws, neuter him, and use a squirt bottle
with water when he "attacks". You mayb also talk
to your vet about drug therapy. Place the cat if
you can't deal with this.
Janet B

"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction" --Janet Boss

"J1Boss" <> wrote in message

> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
> Janet Boss
"sionnach" <> wrote in message

> "J1Boss" <> wrote in message
> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.


> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
> and trust me,


You're a liar and dog abusin mental case, janet.

> people drive a whole lot further than you would,

Like HOWE your "STUDENT" nessa done for THREE YEARS
till her dogs TURNED ON HER and she GOT RID of them.

> in order to take our [paid for] classes.

Yeah. FOR MONTHS and YEARS, eh janet?

> Take it or leave it, but don't say that help isn't readily available.

You mean DESPITE that YOU CAN'T TRAIN HIS DOG, janet?

> You can start Mondays, 9/11, Tuesdays, 9/5, or Saturdays,
> 10/7. I want Muttley to succeed.

INDEED? You can't even train your own dogs, janet:

Janet B - view profile
Date: Wed, Jan 4 2006 10:34 am
Email: Janet B <>

Rudy, my golden foster puppy, is a wonderful puppy. He is mostly
housebroken (not a good idea to wake up to greet DH without going out
first!), beautifully crate trained (had not been by his first 2
homes), obedient and snuggly and charming. For the most part, unless
ignored, sits politely for greeting and is generally a delight.

So why is he still here after 2+ weeks? I've had 5 interested
parties. I think the almost-6 months and high energy has scared
enough others away. 2 homes have been approved by the rescue org, but
neither is suitable (mutual agreement). The other 3 haven't been
approved yet, but I'm doubting that any of them will be "the" one.
One has no other dogs and does cat rescue. Has one retired owner but
no other dog to get exercise with. Next home has sons - 8 & 11, but
no other dog and they were used to an old and calm golden. Third home
has a 2 yo lab, but nobody home during day and not clear on some
lifestyle details yet. They haven't applied yet either.

I realize that a big responsibility of rescue is to make sure (as sure
as possible) that the home is a forever one. Rudy has been through 2
homes already and I don't want him to fail in another one, just
because someone can't meet his exercise (mind and body) needs.

Obviously *I* am the right home for this puppy ;-D, bit that isn't to
be, so I need to find the right home elsewhere. I'm in no hurry to
get rid of him (neither is DH, he just doesn't want him to be
permanent), so that's not an issue, but I always stress over whether
I'm too demanding in new home qualities, or whether I am just
reasonable and careful.

Janet B

> I'm willing to give away my services in order for that to happen.

Your "SERVICES" are ABUSE, janet.

> Here it is - public knowledge - all I want is to see a dog have
> a decent chance of a great, permanent adoption.

You mean INSTEAD OF TRAININ IT, janet?

From: Janet B
Date: Thurs, Oct 13 2005 1:06 pm
Email: Janet B <>

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:44:31 -0400, sighthounds & siberians
<>, clicked their heels and said:

> I just have a question. If you didn't teach your dogs that they may
> leave the premises when the cat's being a pain but may not snap
> at her, yet they know that, how do you think they learned it?
> Is it an extension of their knowledge that you're in charge, even
> though you didn't specifically teach them that wrt the cat? Or
> is it an instinctive thing, similar to what dogs often display with
> pups and many dogs display with babies and toddlers?

I think it's mostly instinctive, but an extension of knowing that I
tolerate nasty behavior as well. They can nudge her off, avoid her,
stand up (thus knocking her off MOST of the time - she's amazingly

Leaving the area is probably reinforced by me ushering them outside
quickly, during some of her "attack modes". That's mostly for their own
safety, but also so it stops Carey from racing after them as they
to other rooms/sides of a room.

This happened Sunday evening - had the back door open and Franklin
stood up with a startled WOOF at something outside (it was dark).
immediately "flipped". She went after him but then Lucy. Lucy gets
more upset about it - puts her ears back, looks worried, tries to get

Franklin tends to meet it head on by slurping her. It was escalating,
I sent both dogs out and then plopped Carey in her carrier for about 10


This has been a particularly bad week for her.

I think the dogs know that she's off her rocker.

> And that's a *very* odd cat you've got. We had a cat
> that sucked on another cat (a male, at that), but one
> that sucks/nibbles/humps...obviously confused, poor kitty.

She is a VERY odd little cat (all 7# of her). She goes into these
moods that are almost seizure-like (she saw a neurologist for awhile,
but we weren't getting anywhere except poorer). My other cat (twice
her size) can be the object of her hostility, as can the dogs, and
then other times, she's obsessively mauling them with affection. She
has transferred that behavior from dog, to dog, to dog. When she was
5 months old she got blocked from ingesting Golden Retriever hair.
After that, she stopped for almost 5 years. The night my Lindy was
killed, she started immediately again (on same Golden). That was
1998. She hasn't stopped since. She also has horrible vocalizations,
inappropriate urination, and well, she's a damn lucky cat, let's put
it that way. She was paralyzed for a few weeks, 3.5 years ago - we
still don't know why. Currently, she can't jump very high after
rupturing her ACL during the summer. She's 12.

During her good times, she's sweet, playful, affectionate
(appropriately), snuggles with the other cat or a dog (without
sucking), and almost seems normal.

She was born 3 days after the rest of her litter - obviously something
went wrong! I'm amazed she's still with us. She's hardy if nothing
Janet B
> --
> Janet Boss

You mean instead of MURDERIN IT, janet?

From: Janet B
Date: Mon, Oct 17 2005 7:19 pm
Email: Janet B <>

On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 18:04:23 -0500, shelly
<>, clicked their heels and said:

>they might be, unfortunately. there's no shortage of cats who *do* use
>the litter box, so he'd surely be put to sleep if he was turned in to
>the shelter. that's a really tough call, and i don't envy them that
>decision. no one wants to be responsible for an animal's death, but
>it's also not reasonable to expect someone to live with an animal that
>cannot be house broken.

It's one of those situations where, do you face this yourself and have
the guts to PTS at your own vet, with you there, or surrender to a
shelter and plead ignorance about what's going to happen

I live with Carey day by day. Some days, I'm ready to toss her little
scrawny 7# declawed butt out the door. But that wouldn't be fair to
her and not a solution. I haven't yet confined her to a cage. That
would not be retraining, with her multiple issues, but a place to
guarantee she wouldn't be peeing all over the house or attacking the

I choose to accommodate her weirdness. I cover my family room
furniture with plastic tablecloths every night. She hasn't peed on
those in months, but why take the risk? I have washable slipcovers
and baby waterproof pads under the cushion covers, but laundry gets
tiring after awhile. Citrus spray has worked in the past and present,
and not sometimes in between. She has peed on books, papers, shoes,
empty bowls, the top of the dryer, pretty much anything imaginable.
And then we go for weeks on end when she doesn't. Dog beds get
waterproof liners now. Leather living room furniture get scat mats.

There are places she never pees, and places she loves to pee. On top
of wires is one. Cleaning those off is a real treat.

She's 12 though. Not 7 months. I know that due to her many problems,
she probably won't live to be in her late teens. I didn't expect her
to make it to 9 though, given some problems, so she's turning out to
be the little bionic cat!

I have to admit, that although I love my cats, I won't miss this stuff
when they're gone. Dogs are SO much easier. So much more
straightforward in their problems, if they have any.

But I do love Skip on my lap every evening and on my legs every night.
Janet B

HOWEDY janet you miserable lyin dog abusing punk thug coward
active acute chronic long term incurable mental case and
professional dog trainin lesson salesman and FRAUD,

Janet B wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 10:36:04 +1200, "Brett"
> <>, clicked their heels and said:
> > Yes, we are exercising her lots. The breeder has
> > suggested that we are exercising her too much
> > and that we shouldn't really be taking her out
> > until she has finished her vaccinations.

Perhaps that's backwards thinkin?

> Ah yes, there is safe exercise and risky exercise.
> Safe exercise is on your own property, at known
> safe places (a puppy class requiring vaccinations),

That's INSANE, janet.

> and not encouraging jumping over things or such at a young age.

Jumping doesn't HURT dogs, janet. Dogs are natural born
athletes. What HURTS dogs is standard veterinary care
and garbage commercial diets and traditional training.

> Still, ball in a yard or long hallway can go a long way!

to FORCE CON-TROLL their behaviors, janet.

> > For those two hour stints we plan to leave Sophie
> > in her room with the door closed, to keep her and
> > the cats safe. Other than that there will always be
> > supervision.

Yeah. brett will NEVER successfully train his dogs and kats
or raise his children to be responsible decent human beings.

> Excellent.

INDEEDY. And then they'll be JUST LIKE YOU, eh janet???

> I don't remember how common crating is in NZ, but it's a
> popular thing here in the states and has a lot of benefits.

There are NO benefits to lockin dogs in boxes to avoid
temperament and behavior problems of the domestic puppy
dog you ain't got the intellect to HOWEtwit even after
The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard and all HIS 100%
End Dog Training Method Manual Students all over the
WHOWEL WILD WORLD told you HOWE they done it EZ GENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY and FOR FREE, to boot <{): ~ ) >

> > When you say that we need to prevent Sophie from
> > doing that, how should we do that?

janet and her punk thug coward lyin dog abusing mental
case pals PREFER to jerk choke shock and scruff shake
little dogs they ain't AFRAID of HURTIN <{): ~ ( >

> > Offer her a more interesting distraction, (ball, chew bone etc)?

Offering REWARDS for BAD BEHAVIOR is INSANE. Offering alternate
incompatible behaviors DOES NOT TRAIN dogs not to do BAD behaivors.
IN FACT, dogs DO BAD BEHAVIORS so their incompetent owners will
offer them alternate incompatible behaviors as REWARDS for not
doin the behavior they just done to get 100% of the ignorameHOWESES
undivided attention <{): ~ ) >

Dogs are MUCH smarter than people, particularly university
trained behaviorists and professional dog trainers <{): ~ ) >

> I would be keeping a long leash on her when she's free in the house,

Then she wouldn't be "free" in the HOWES, would she, janet.
IN FACT, she'd become dependend on that long leash to FORCE
CON-TROLL of her normal natural innate instinctive reflexive
behaviors wouldn't it, janet <{): ~ ) >

> and giving the cats a barrier somewhere - a baby gate or such.

That'll encourage the kats to tease the dog into chasin them.

> I would be working on her coming when called

INDEED? But you don't know HOWE to train a dog to come, do you, janet.

> (praise and perhaps food reward),


"Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVER LEARNING THEORY
model involves the USE OF PUNISHMENT. Of curse,
Skinner has never to my knowledge, demonstrated
HOWE we escape the phenomenon that an expected
reward not received is experienced as a punishment
and can produce extensive and persistent aggression
(Azrin et al, 1966)."

"The IMBECILITY of some of the claims for operant
technique simply take the breath away. Lovas et al
(1966) report a standard contingent reward/punishment
procedure developing imitative speech in two severly
disturbed non verbal schizophrenic boys. After twenty-
six days the boys are reported to have been learning
new words with alacrity. HOWEver, when REWARDS were
moved to a delayed contingency the behavoir and
learning immediately deteriorated."

> when she's too pushy with the cats.

Dogs AIN'T "PUSHY", janet, they're only responding
in predictable normal natural innate instinctive
reflexive ways to situations and circumstances of
their environments which we create for them.

> Distractions are good.

No janet, that's INSANE:

From: Marshall Dermer (
Subject: Re: Update on Puppy Biting
Date: 1999/06/14

In article <>

> My previous thread seems to have deteriorated off topic, but I would
> still like some input on biting and aggressive behavior. To recount I
> have a Chow/Lab mix who is now 9 weeks old. The biggest problem I had
> with him is biting. This could have been when petting him, walking by,
> or when playing. This seems to be his way of playing or getting
> attention, but it can drive me nuts. To stop this I've distracted with
> chew toys,

Distraction can be a BIG mistake! Why? Because if your manipulation
of the chew toy is reinforcing then you are inadvertently reinforcing
your dog for biting if you follow his biting with activating the
chew toy.

The standard way to curtail biting is to either "yelp loudly," "clamp
dog's mouth shut with your hand," or "pick him up by the scruff of his
and say "no" whenever he bites. All of these are punishment procedures
to work they must be put into place promptly, within say .5 sec, after
bite. Isolating the dog after a bite is another form of punishment
time-out (from reinforcement but it is hard to rapidly
implement--within .5
sec of a bite.

If one of these procedures does not work, that is, your dog behaves as
if it were a game, then you are not using an effective

> said NO, and failing that put him in my room alone for a few
> min. When in there he barks and whines, but afterwards behaves
> much better. After about a week of this the biting has decreased
> remarkably, but hasn't stopped outright. Still does it when he gets
> into hyper Puppy Jihad mode.

Well, be patient.

You can, of course, use differential reinforcement of other behavior
eliminate biting. If there is a situation in which your dog often
then create the situation and if your dog goes without biting for 1
offer a reinforcer (click and treat if you use a clicker). Then
increase the time that your dog must go without biting for the
to be delivered. Eventually, your dog will not bite and the other
that you have been reinforcing will be more frequent.

Another factor to consider is whether your dog is getting sufficient
exercise. Mine will go "bonkers" if he has been exercise deprived.

Best wishes,



And THEN The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard
totally DISCREDITED HOWER good professor dermer.

> Teaching her CALM around the cats requires some physical intervention.

THAT'S INSANE, janet. You CANNOT TRAIN a dog using
BEHAVIORS not to DO a normal natural innate instinctive
reflexive behavior otherWIZE you WOULDN'T NEED to jerk
choke shock bribe crate intimidate and MURDER innocent
defenseless dumb critters and try to get HOWET callin
THAT, trainin <{): ~ ) >

> even the friendliest of dogs can hurt a cat or
> get hurt by a cat if they are too bouncy.

Well then you'd have to TRAIN them not to get 'too
BHOWENCY', wouldn't you, janet <{): ~ ) >

> If you have access to puppy classes, go now -

Hey? Don't YOU SELL "training classes", janet?

> she will truly benefit from learning
> to interact with other puppies.

Will that train her to interact with kats, janet?

> It will wear her out a bit,

That's INSANE, janet.

> help teach her some bite inhibition,

There AIN'T NO SUCH THING as bite inhibition, janet.

> and give her one more outlet for her energy.


> It's not easy for cats to accept their first dog as a bouncy puppy.

THAT'S ABSURD, janet. Kats and dogs was meant to go
together like dogs and kids. Ooops! The Freakin Simply
don't LET their dogs alone with their children on accHOWENT
of dogs CANNOT BE TRUSTED with them <{): ~ ) >

> Keep on top of things and help guide her to use her
> energy elsehwere, and the cats will come around,
> feeling less threatened.

You mean like HOWE he's been doin, janet?

> --
> Janet Boss

From: Paul B (
Subject: Re: Can pack leader influence rank?
Date: 2002-02-25 00:51:48 PST

I use sound to distract the dog and praise it immediately.
The reason for the immediate praise is that as soon as the
dog is distracted it's no longer thinking of the inappropriate
behaviour so the praise reinforces the "not doing" the unwanted

I use various sound sources, a soda can with stones in it,
car keys, click my fingers, etc. Varying the direction of
the sound each time is important too, otherwise the dog
may begin to anticipate the sound and it will lose it's
effect, if the noise direction is random the dog won't
get too familiar with it and it will remain an effective

Remember too that we aren't trying to scare the bejesus
outta the dog, simply breaking it's train of thought while
it's thinking of the unwanted behaviour.

Sometimes you won't even see a reaction but the dog will
have been distracted fleetingly. (Recently one of my dogs
started habitually licking my feet while I was watching
TV, I clicked my fingers on her left side and told her
"good girl" even though she only paused her licking
briefly, next I clicked over her right side and praised,
by about the 4th repeat she suddenly stopped, I repeated
this over a few nights and now she doesn't lick any more,
on the few occasions she absent mindedly licks now all I
do is click and praise and she immediately stops).

Timing is important too, learn to anticipate when the dog
is thinking about doing the "dirty deed" and distract and
praise then, with any luck the dog will try again almost
immediately so distract and praise again, if the timing
is correct after about the 4th rep the dog will stop.

I could go on but this post is long enough already, remember
too that the dog isn't being a "bad dog", it's behaviour is
simply inappropriate for the circumstances.

Happy training, :-)



Paul B <> wrote in message

Hello James,

I have used his recommended techniques and ideas with great
success, and over the period I've used these methods the more
I've become to understand and appreciate how his methods work
and how effective they can be if carried out correctly.

His manual isn't conventional and as such gets critisized and
misunderstood. The basic concept is to allow the dog to choose
whatever behaviour it wants for any situation but to distract
(and immediately praise ) it from behaviours we deem undesirable,
because of the correctly timed distractions repeated usually
about 4 times (in each location) the dog decides of it own
accord that this behaviour is undesriable and therefore pursues
something else, if that behaviour is also inappropriate to us
then we carry on distracting, very soon the dog finds a behaviour
that is mutually acceptable. The benefits of this type of
approach are numerous, firstly we aren't challenging the dog so
there is no conflict so the dog does't develop any possible
negativity to us, the dog decides of it own free will that a
behaviour is unsatisfying so chooses to cease it (in other words
even if we are gone the dog won't have any desire to pursue that
behaviour i.e. bin raiding etc).

I would recommend his manual.



"Paul B" <> wrote in message

Bollocks, the manual has no dangerous suggestions at
all, people who find the manual useful are those that
don't need to control a dog to satisfy their own ego
but simply want a well behaved dog that is easy to
live with. I would suggest the people who follow the
advice in his manual are people who have already
tried other inefficient methods and are fed up with
the poor results.

The more I think about the methods he suggests the
more sense it makes, the biggest problem is people
believe they have to be in control of the dog, tell it
whats right and wrong, dogs don't understand
our values and I don't believe they are capable of
understanding them either, so to train them we use
methods they understand. That means abstract
training, doing sometimes what appears to
almost be the opposite of what makes sense to us.

If you are purely result orientated then you will not
find Jerry's manual much use, if you love your dogs
and love to work WITH them then his manual is
your dream come true. Distraction and praise works
with any dog, when you sit back and really think about
it, it's very obvious why.

When a dog is properly distracted (and praised) of a
particular behaviour then that behaviour very quickly
becomes unfulfilling so the dog will no longer have any
interest in pursuing it, whether we are about or not,
thats the key to stopping garbage can raids and food
stealing etc etc, no force, no bad dog, just distracting it
in an appropriate manner that it no longer wishes to
pursue that behaviour.

Better than hiding the garbage can eh?


> --
> Janet Boss

HOWEDY janet,

Looks like you and your pals have gone totally INSANE again:

Janet B wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 14:44:14 -0500, Janet B
> <>, clicked their heels and said:
> > Since you quoted me repeatedly, where does it say I beat dogs, choke
> > dogs, scream at dogs, etc? Thanks for your clarification.
> responding to my own post, I had to go back and look at the original
> post, to remind myself what "we" are all accused of doing:
> "screaming, choking, shocking, pinching, beating the living crap
> out of your dogs"
> Scream? no
> Choke? no
> Shock? e-collars are a lot more sophisticated than that
> Pinch? if you want to classify a momentary discomfort by a prong
> collar, go ahead, but unless you have first hand experience with
> one, your opinion means nothing
> Beat the living crap out of? hardly - no hitting exists

"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction" --Janet Boss

"Reliable Punishment Cycles, Different Thresholds To Pain
And Punishment, High Tolerance For Correction, Escalation
Of Correction To A Level Where The Dog Yelps When You Punish
Him, Thus Making The Experience One Which The Dog Will Want
To Avoid In The Future," grant teeboon, RAAF.

"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know Jack
Wouldn't Have Done It If He Thought Solo Couldn't
Take It. I Still Crate Him Because Otherwise I Fear
He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.

captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK" Makes A
ResoundingSound Distraction: "When You Chuck The Dog
The Sound Will Travel Up The Mandible To The Ears And
Give A Popping Sound To The Dog."

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

On 6 Feb 2006 17:41:08 GMT, Mary Healey <>,
clicked their heels and said:

> Does that include tone of voice? Some tools are easier
> to ban than others.

yes - screaming banshees are told to shut up! And I
always have to remind spouses that they may NOT do the
"honey - you're supposed to be doing it like THIS"......
Janet B

"Chin CHUCK absolutely doesn't mean slap,"
professora gingold.

"BethF" <>
wrote in message

Kyle, FWIW, i thought it was pretty funny,
and i often call my little dog the turd, because
he is one. Some folks think its HORRRIBLE i
would insult my dog like that so i guess its just a
matter of personality.

Kyle, the best way to teach him to stay away is to
step on him once. Seriously.

"Whatever Motivates The Dog, But I Daresay Most
Of The Dogs I Have In Classes Just Aren't That
Interested In Praise."

"BethF" <> wrote in message

Maybe that's what we should do - hold back the dobie
girl so that Izzy can put Simon in his place.

Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper wield
the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them
more sharply

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and
the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist!
Eventually, the dog will give in

but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their
efforts to escaping the ear pinch

You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell
instead of your thumb even get a studded collar
and pinch the ear against that

Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so
urgent that resisting your will fades in importance.

CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever Ready
Right Hand, As it catches on, try using the stick
and no ear pinch.

When the dog is digging out to beat the stick
and seems totally reliable without any ear pinch,
you are finished

If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin,
say "No! Hold!"

(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps because
the ear is getting tender, or the dog has decided
it isn't worth it)" lying frosty dahl.

"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
professora gingold.

terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure."

"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness," mustang sally.

"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me.
I volunteered as assistant to the euthanasia
tech at our local shelter for a while, and
I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted

This however has nothing at all to do with
responsible breeders, because responsible
breeders don't contribute to that problem,"
Mustang Sally.

Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001
Subject: Re: shock collars

Sally Hennessey <> wrote in message

Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-
righteous, this post shows and absence of knowledge
in the differences in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps
a lack of ability to perceive same.

The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to
whom corrections and discomfort, even pain, were
unimportant does not mean that such dogs do not exist.

What it means is that you don't know as much about
dogs as you think you do, and you surely don't know
a damn thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.

I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with
one of her housemates; that dog had no fear or
anything, and pain incurred during a fight meant
nothing to her.

I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that
you, Alison, continue to say things to people such as
what you said to Theresa about causing her dog to
suffer (at least I guess that's what you meant by
"you cause your dog suffers" - - must be the King's
English you guys talk about over there) means that
you are an ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person
who is not worth further notice.

Sally Hennessey

"Sally Hennessey" <> wrote in message

Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.

I'm starting to see some similarities here.

Sally Hennessey


Punishment Deranges Behavior.
"NO!" Does NOT Have Any Behavioral Function
To DERANGE Behaviors.

Here's professor "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM NO! into ITS face for
five seconds and lock IT in a box for ten minutes contemplation"
dermer of the Department of ANAL-ytic Behavior at UofWI, pryor:

From: Marshall Dermer (
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST

And how do we know this aspect of his
advice is right?

Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.

(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
ill-mannered, or just plain ill.­),


Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of
Wisconsin-Milwaukee/ Milwaukee, WI 53201/
"Life is just too serious to be taken entirely seriousyl!"

From: (Marshall Dermer) -
Date: 1998/08/28
Subject: Re: Puppy growls and snaps

In article <6s6ea0$> (Marshall
Dermer) writes: In article <>
> >tami sutherland <> writes:

>> However, there have been incidences where she has
>> growled and snapped at us...for instance, when we
>> were trying to dry her off after bathtime.

> When your three-month old pooch growls or snaps, IMMEDIATELY
> pick her up ONLY by the skin at the back of her neck, for 5
> sec, and loudly say, "NO!" Alternatively, say "NO!" and hold
> her mouth shut for say 15 sec.

> If she so snaps that you can't do the above then you
> will have to find another way to administer a prompt
> correction, for example, throwing a can filled with
> pennies, or a tug on the collar. --Marshall

"Oops! I would start by only holing her mouth
shut for say 5 sec.

At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted

**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).

"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.


That's INSANE. Ain't it.

P.S. Contacting Dr. P:

Please note that due to the large number of
requests I receive, I can no longer give free,
personal advice on problems related to dog
training and behavior.

In order for me to give such advice we would
have to "talk" about the problem at length.

That is, I would need detailed information about
the dog, it's environment and routine, the problem,
and the situation in which the problem occurs.

Thus, this type of consultation takes time which
I cannot afford to give away for free.

If you wish such advice, please see the information
I have provided about my K9 Behavioral Consulting
practice. Another alternative to obtaining personal
advice is to participate in e-mail, chat room, &
newsgroup discussions.


YOU'RE FRAUDS, drs p. and dermer!

Either DEFEND your LIES, ABUSE And
Degrees or get the heel HOWETA THIS

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <>
To: "Jerry Howe" <>
Subject: Alleged Professors of Animal Behavior
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:50:51 -0400

Dear Jerry, I paged through some of the "dog business"
and was astonished at the low quality of opinions arising
from professors of behavior analysis.

I had the very great privilege of meeting Sam Corson
(Pavlov's last Ph.D. student) and his dogs at Ohio
University. I even got to spend a night at Sam's house.

There is no question but that you are a spiritual brother
to Corson and to Pavlov, both of whom knew that the dog's
great capacity for love was the key to shaping doggie behavior.

Paradoxical reward and paradoxical fixing of attention are
both well documented Pavlovian techniques. Even so humorless
a chap as B.F. Skinner taught students like the Breland's whose
"The Misbehavior of Organisms" demonstrate the utility of your
methods and their deep roots in scientific (as opposed to
commercial) psychology.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
you may find my resume in Who's Who in
Science and Technology

Here's professor dermer AFTER gettin JERRYIZED:

"We Are Lucky To Have You, And More People Should
Come To Their Senses And Support Your Valuable Work.
God Bless The Puppy Wizard," Professor Marshall Dermer,
Dept Of ANAL-ytic Behavior, UofWI.

From: "Marshall Dermer" <>
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM

Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,

I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.

You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent­,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts ­to
alert the world to animal abuse.

We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and support your valuable

Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
charity to fund your important work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?

In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.

--Marshall Dermer

Subject: < BEFORE -> "Jerry, You filthy, Unctuous,
No Good Charlatan,"

< AFTER -> "Thank You Jerry For Putting Up With
A Constant Barrage Of Really Infantile
Crap At The Hands Of Supposedly Adult
Dog Lovers.

'Naive' Is Believing You Can Terrorize
A Dog Into Good Behavior," Robert Crim.

>Subject: Re: Fritz---a retrospective
>Date: 02/05/1999
>Author: Robert Crim <>
> You filthy, unctuous, no good charlatan. If you had
> any idea of what dogs and dog people were about
> you would realize the depths of the absolute loathing
> and contempt I hold for you right now. Were it not
> for the blessed distance and anonymity that the internet
> gives us from the scummy likes of you, I would probably
> be in a jail cell right now for turning you into the pile
> of shit you really are

Hey, Howe, you really are a wacko, eh?

Crim wrote this about *YOU,* you insipid piece of cow dung!



> On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:24:15 -0700, dogsnus

<"Terri"@cyberhighway> Wrote:>

> Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
> He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
> watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
> Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
> come forward and actually believe in his training manual.

Robert Crim writes:

I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope,
understood enough of the manual and it's counterparts by
John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe
and use it.

This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.

The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.

To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog.

Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake
names are more honest than people that use their real
names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.)
are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.

"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.

Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.

> And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and
> actually admit to buying and having success with his
> little black box.

I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.

> Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
> Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming
> to him! LOL!

I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.


Yes it was, and that is sad.

Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)


Crim wrote THAT about *YOU,* tommy,
"you insipid piece of cow dung!"


Janet B

Sep 2, 2006, 9:24:49 AM9/2/06
On Fri, 1 Sep 2006 20:59:31 -0400, "Paul E. Schoen"
<>, clicked their heels and said:

> I can
>attend this coming Tuesday's class, which I assume is for owners only. By
>then I should know details of the other classes. I will contact you
>directly for more details and confirmation.

Hooray - we look forward to seeing you there! BTW - if he gets placed
while you're doing classes, the new owner can finish them up.

Janet Boss

Paul E. Schoen

Sep 2, 2006, 4:56:28 PM9/2/06

"Janet B" <> wrote in message
I will try to get there by about 6:15. I'm not sure if I will need to go to
work Tuesday, but I'll still plan to make it. Just today I put an offer ad
for Muttley on Freecycle. It will be hard to give him up, but I will make
sure he goes to a good home. Photon spent all last night outside and today
I called her and she had some food on the porch. Muttley was watching from
behind the screen door but he did not attempt to get out, although I know
he wanted to. I made sure I gave him some extra good canned food when I
came back in, so hopefully he would not feel too jealous. Do you think
there is any chance they could learn to get along? Maybe you might have a
better idea after a few lessons. BTW, his fleas seem to be pretty much
under control after application of Frontline, but he still scratches a lot,
especially when he is excited.


Sep 2, 2006, 5:35:42 PM9/2/06

> HOWEDY jaent you pathetic miserable stinkin lyin dog murderin
> active acute chronic long term incurable mental case and professional
> dog trainin FRAUD an SCAM ARTIST,
> Janet B wrote:
> > Paul - my offer of FREE training for Muttley,
> You jerk choke shock crate intimidate surgically mutilate
> and murder innocent defenseless dumb critters like HOWE
> you done to that little DEAD DOG in "interested in hearing".

And you support adults fondling young children.

No matter what you call anyone here, there is nothing that "beats"

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