My 8 month Lhasa Apso has started biting
rickch...@my-deja.com
corners, furniture and electrical outlets and cords. Before, I was able
to get him to stop by giving him a chew toy of his own but recently, he
has become vicious. He bit me for the first time when I got too close as
I was passing him his own chew toy. I do recognize my role in getting
bit however, I would like to know how to handle the dog right after the
bite. I have read many articles on preventing a dog from biting but I'd
be interested in hearing some suggestions on what to do at the moment he
bites.
Also, how do you re-establish the boundaries of owner versus dog.
Ever since the dog bit me, he growls whenever I approach him when he has
something that he preceives as being "his". It's almost as if he's
daring me to try to take it away. I don't want to lose my chain of
command but I know that I lost a lot of power after he bit me.
Furthermore, I think that he senses that I don't trust him not to bite
again and it's becoming a game with him.
He has been to puppy kindergarten and is an obedient dog otherwise.
It's just that lately he has become very possessive of his space and
belongings. He hides all his toys and tries to bury chew toys or treats.
Could this type of behavior be related to his sudden biting?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!!
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Jerry Howe
<rickch...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:92jisj$fce$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> My puppy has been chewing on things that he
> shouldn't be...
At eight months old, the only reason he'd be chewing is because of anxiety,
bordom,or a negative attention getting device.
> wall corners, furniture and electrical outlets and
> cords. Before, I was able to get him to stop by giving
> him a chew toy of his own
Well, that 's the problem with just interrupting a behavior. There's a
process the dog needs to think through to learn not to do things, and when
we tell him don't chew THAT, chew this, he chews this, but never ceases his
desire to chew THAT. You've got to allow him to attempt to chew or take
inappropriate objects, and inerrupt him with a brief distraction followed by
prolonged, non physical praise.
> but recently, he has become vicious.
He's coming into his maturity. There's something wrong somewhere, that's
causing him to chew and bite. Dogs don't do things for no good reason.
> He bit me for the first time when I got too close as I
> was passing him his own chew toy.
Hmm. Interesting. Sounds like he doesn't trust you. Is he hand shy at all?
Has he been hit, chin cuffed, or scruff shaken?
> I do recognize my role in getting bit however,
I dunno. I don't think there's ever a good reason why our own dog should
bite us. That's why I'm so tight assed about not hurting dogs to train them.
As a professional dog trainer, I couldn't live with having to kill several
dogs a year because I'm too stubborn to quit jerking and choking and
confronting them.
> I would like to know how to handle the dog right
> after the bite.
I usually say something like, "Ouch! I wish I hadn't done that. Would you
like to forget about this and just entertain yourself for a few minutes
while I get some warm water running over this bloody thumb?"
And I'd go run some warm water over it and squeeze the wound to make it
bleed thouroughly, and put no bandage on it. I use melalucca oil, and fresh
aloe makes it's own bandage that breaths.
> I have read many articles on preventing a dog from
> biting but I'd be interested in hearing some
> suggestions on what to do at the moment he bites.
First thing I usually do is wince. If it hurts real real bad or gets me by
surprise I might scream something like "YOWEEE! expletive! OOCH!, expletive!
expletive!
AAAH! expletive! Damn!!!. I wish I hadn't done that! Would you like to
forget about this and just entertain yourself for a few minutes while I get
some warm water running over this bloody thumb?"
> Also, how do you re-establish the boundaries of
> owner versus dog.
That's the first thing I do with every dog I meet. It's the Family
Leadership Exercise. That, and teaching the come comand, there's no way the
dog is going to give you a hard time, because he'll be well balanced.
> Ever since the dog bit me, he growls whenever I
> approach him when he has something that he
> preceives as being "his".
Sounds like he's scared that 1) you may be angry at him for taking
something, or 2) that you're going to take his stuff.
Don't provoke him by testing or staring or making any suspicious moves that
might imply you mistrust him.
Chances are, if you don't react in any OBVIOUS way to his growl, he'll not
think he's got anything to worry about. That's what we want, isn't it???
When you've learned the conditioning techniques, you'll be able to interrupt
those incidents without conflict or challenging him. We don't want that, do
we...
That's why I get so freaked out when our "experts" here tell us to take a
firm stand and confront the dog, or just as bad, tell us to bribe the dog
with cookies so someone can trigger this response without even expecting it
might happen. After all, HOWE often do we hear people say, "I was just
offering him some food" or "He growls at me when he's eating."
The act of eating is a very private affair. Isn't that curious? Dogs will
make love in the street, and hide behind a garbage barrel to eat a
steak...Go figger.
But speaking of that, there's some speculation that when dogs mate, they
turn opposite of each other to protect themselves, so they don't get caught
"flagrante delicto." Kind of a two headed beast, eh?
> It's almost as if he's daring me to try to take it
> away.
I don't think he's daring you, like I said, I think he's scared that maybe
he's gonna get in trouble. At any rate, you know the symptoms, and you know
the triggers. Now all you gotta know is how to conditon a trigger that will
collapse the behavior when you set up the lesson to trigger and collapse
this response.
> I don't want to lose my chain of command but I know
> that I lost a lot of power after he bit me.
That's why I keep telling people not to get confrontational or forceful or
even verbally admonis the dog in any way. It fractures the relationship,
when what we need to do is foster TRUST and confidence and calm and
gentleness. Those can't be taught with a leash and collar.
> Furthermore, I think that he senses that I don't trust
> him not to bite again
That's a good perspective. I expect EVERY dog to bite. That's why I teach
proper leash handling techniques so we're not exposing our face or bodies to
a bite in case we accidentally provoke him. A lot of trainers have trouble
when they tell a dog to do something and the dog doesn't do it, they pull on
him and give a stern command, and the dog say's "try this" and bites.
They're surprised! I EXPECT that.
> and it's becoming a game with him.
It may seem like that with a Lhasa. They're INSCRUTABLE. They're little
kibbitzers, too. They grumble and carry on with their voice like no other
breed. If someone passes gas, the Lhasa will comment on it. And they'll keep
it up, too.
> He has been to puppy kindergarten and is an
> obedient dog otherwise.
That may be what's caused the problem. Most behavior problems are caused by
our inappropriate methods in our attempts to control behaviors. Traditional
obedience training has a bad record for turning out dogs exactly as you
describe here. We had a poster a while back who's dog was third out of 100
dogs at her club. The dog couldn't be handled. That's because of the force
training she'd had. And it doesn't take much force. It's not something that
is subjective. ANY FORCE is too much. We need to make the dog a partner, and
inspire him to want to do everything we ask.
> It's just that lately he has become very possessive of
> his space and belongings. He hides all his toys and
> tries to bury chew toys or treats.
That tells me he's insecure. He doesn't feel safe, or he wouldn't need to
protect and hide his stuff. Perhaps he's gotten like that because you've
taken things from him *(things he should not have), and even though you've
given a replacement, he didn't get back the thing you took. It's a stretch
of my imagination to be satisfied with second best. He probably thinks that
way too.
> Could this type of behavior be related to his sudden
> biting?
Yeah, I think we just figured it out pretty good.
> Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!!
Sounds like you know what's up. Read my manual, do the exercises, ask
questions if you have difficulty, and after you've done the preliminary
exercises and taught the come command as a conditioned reflex, you'll either
have solved the problem with ONLY that, or at least you'll be able to
decondition further incidents without confrontation.
You can get all the information you need to learn
to properly handle, control, and train your dogs using
non force, non confrontational, scientific and
psychological techniques, from the Wits' End
Dog Training Method manual available for FREE at http://www.doggydoright.com
The Wits' End Dog Training Method manual is
provided by the BIOSOUND Scientific Elves as an
alternative to Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too).
And Marilyn has an excellent book, "The Essence Of
Communication" available through her website at http://www.soundplaydogs.com
Your pal, Jerry "The Phony," Howe. j;~}
Elaine Gallant
Gee, you've been bitten like that before? Extreme pain, and blood? Ewww!
You know, I've never been intentionally bitten by my own dog.
As far as the occasional scruff shaking, or chin cuff, yes, I've done that.
Never had it result in an owner aggressive dog.
"Jerry Howe" <jh...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:UCd36.211594$vc3.35...@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...
Jerry Howe
"Barbara Unger" <Barbar...@web.de> wrote in message
news:92kjir$m21$1...@fstgss02.tu-graz.ac.at...
> Hello!
> I'm sorry, I guess my English is not good enough to
> help you by myself.
Your English is good enough to recommend some pretty lousy INFORMATION and
some ROTTEN sites...
> So I looked for some pages in the web that might help
> you...
Yeah. Take a look at what your recommending here:
> http://www.k9web.com/dog-faqs/behavior.html
That's cindymooreon's lousy site. She tells people to chin cuff, scruff
shake, shock, shove fingers down puppy's throats to choke them out of
mouthing, to knee dogs in the chest, throw them down by their ears and climb
all over them like a wild animal, to shove their heads under water you've
filled into a hole he's dug.
She's been BANNED from two dog training clubs because shes's a vicious
sadist...
> http://www.canines.com/library/solutions/
These bums run some sort of "dog school." Here's a quote from their pages:
"The best way to stop a behavior from reoccurring is to associate it with a
negative reinforcement. Effective negative reinforcements vary from dog to
dog"
> http://www.canismajor.com/dog/topic1.html
And here we've got moore of the same hot, dry, crap:
"correct the dog when he starts barking by re-entering the house or yard,
shaking the dog by the scruff, and repeating “NO, NO, NO” in a commanding
tone. After the correction, the owner should calmly leave again, wait out of
the dog’s sight, and repeat if necessary."
> You should also read information about Lhasa Apsos,
> maybe you can find a reason why your dog ist
> behaving like this.
The dog is behaving like that because he's been TRAINED in puppy class...
> But first of all you should make clear to your dog that
> you are the leader in your house.
THAT'S what they learned in puppy class. And THAT'S why the dog is biting
now.
> His behaviour is a sign of dominance and he doesn't
> seem to accept you as his alpha.
Your alpha dominance BS is what KILLS dogs.
> You might try this:
> - every time you enter or leave a room YOU go first,
> the dog behind you - for some time feed your dog just
> from your hands; he should learn that you're the one
> who controls the food
That's why he's biting. He doesn't want to hear from CONTROL. In order to
rehabilitate this dog, you can't push him around and demonstrate your ALPHA
B.S., cause he'll bite the beejeesus outta you. And then he'll end up DEAD.
Is that what you'd LIKE???
> - don't let your dog lie on the couch or the bed, this is
> a high position and makes him feel more powerful
POWERFUL? Well, that's something new to me. Usually a dog in bed is
COMFORTABLE. That's hardly a dominant position...
> - don't step over your dog when he's lying in your
> way; tell him to leave
That's stupid. The dog should learn that you're going to step over him
without stepping on his toes. I have black dogs and keep most of my lights
out at nite, and I NEVER worry about stepping on or over a dog. They way
their tail or breath heavy so we know where they're laying, and we feel
around with our feet to make sure we're not stepping on the wrong spot.
Makes everyone feel confident that others are going to be careful and
considerate of each other when we're in a vulnerable position. I never worry
about my dogs biting if they get stepped on, because they understand it's
not intentional, and they never worry about being "bossed around."
> - don't treat your dog when he wants you to
I don't ever give treats, except maybe an ice cube...
> - same thing with games;
That's covered in the Wits' End Dog Training Method manual. We tell the dog
that we're too busy to play, and then in a couple we ask if he'd like to
play, and the dog things we're GENIUSES.
> YOU start a game and YOU finish a game and it's you
> who has the ball (or whatever) in the end - not your
> dog
I think you're a little overly concerned with CONTROL issuse. Most dogs have
CONTROL issues because their owners try to force control.
> - you decide when you want to feed your dog, ignore
> him when he begs
I don't IGNORE anything my dogs try to tell me.
> There are probably a lot more things you can do, but
> this are some ideas you might try.
So far, you're not being helpful at all, and in fact, the links you've
recommended are PROBLEMATICAL.
> It really works,
So does killing the dog.
> I had a similar problem with my dog -
NO DOUBT!
> he was afraid of everything when I got him - but by
> showing him his place (the omega-dog) in my "pack"
Your Greek is better than you English reading skills.
> he started to calm down.
That's a different problem. And for that shyness, the force, fear and
confrontation of the methods you use would give a fearful dog confidence in
you. Or, it would make them turn on you. You got LUCKY.
> There's also quit a good book for this problem, the
> author is Eric H. W. Aldington.
If the sites and other advice you've recommended here is an example of what
YOU consider good, I'd be the book your recommending is equally as mistaken
and dangerous to the lives and welfare of dogs.
> I don't know the English title but in German it's "Was
> tu ich nur mit diesem Hund?" (What shall I do with
> this dog?). He suggests a dominance training over
> three weeks and several people told me that it seems
> to work very well.
Sure. And when it don't work well, the dog gets DEAD.
> good luck, Barbara
Like I said, you got LUCKY.
I don't depend on luck, I rely on the information you need to learn to
rickch...@my-deja.com
get busy reading your manual and putting your ideas to work. You've been
VERY helpful!!!
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