Dog swims in pool like the kids but goes after the kids
thepopster
I have a Chesepeake Bay Retriever pup about 8 months old. In the same
house with me and the dog are my daughter and grand daughter. In the
back yard we have a deck to goes to an above the ground swimming pool.
The pool is 4 feet deep and has a 2 foot wide aluminum deck that
surrounds the pool. Of course the dog loves the water and also seems
to like the grand daughter. While she is in the pool, if I'm not in
there, he will swim towards here and with his paws, non-intentionally
claw her. He also goes kinda nuts and will run the circle around the
deck of the pool as if he is trying to save her. I have had her try not
to run away or climb the ladder to get away from him just to see what
he would do if he catches her and he does nothing when he gets to her.
Now, we can't keep him out of the water and he uses the ladder to get
out. We can't go swimming in piece without him in the pool and can't
keep him in the house, in a cage, without yelping at the top of his
lungs.
On a normal day, he seems to want to be around her no matter where she
goes. This is understandable since he is a pup and she is a kid and
active. But on other occasions, if she were to walk by him while he is
eating, or similar circumstances, he will snarl at her and even one
time snarled and jumped towards her. We put him in the cage when he
does this but just wandering why he does this. I'm sure the above
story may have some holes in it and you may have questions, if so just
ask.
thanks
Handsome Jack Morrison
wrote:
Because you're posting from Google, and Googloids seldom respond to
any advice that's given them, please answer a few questions for me and
then I'll help you out.
1. Did you research the Chessapeake Retriever breed before you got
her?
2. If not, have you researched the breed since then?
3. Why did you choose the Chesapeake Bay Retriever breed?
4. Have you given her any OBEDIENCE TRAINING?
5. Did you get your dog from a breeder?
6. If not, where did you get her?
7. How old was she when you got her?
Thanks!
--
Handsome Jack Morrison
"I love you too
But I will never be yours
I’m a rebel
A loner
I’m bad news, baby
And you don’t want me inside you
Because once you go Omar, you’ll never go kuffar"
http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2006/07/i_love_you_too_.html
The Left's broken moral compass:
http://drsanity.blogspot.com/2006/07/very-bright-line.html
"Suppose this were true - that terrorists blew up Oz honeymooners and
Scandinavian stoners in Balinese nightclubs because of "the Palestinian question."
Doesn’t this suggest that these people are, at a certain level, nuts?"
"There haven’t been any Zionists anywhere near Damascus in 60 years and Syria is in
effect Iran’s first Sunni Arab prison bitch."
"So what is in reality Israel's first non-Arab war is a glimpse of the world the day
after tomorrow: The EU and Arab League won't quite spell it out, but, to modify that
Le Monde headline, they are all Jews now."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?B3A65237D
I stand with Israel.
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/005547.htm
Two books that every American (and Canadian) *must* read:
1) The Rage and The Pride, by Orianna Fallaci
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J13521A6D
2) The Force of Reason, by Orianna Fallaci
http://makeashorterlink.com/?T42552A6D
While they still can.
Amy Dahl
thepopster wrote:
> I have a Chesepeake Bay Retriever pup about 8 months old. In the same
> house with me and the dog are my daughter and grand daughter.
[snip]
>
> On a normal day, he seems to want to be around her no matter where she
> goes. This is understandable since he is a pup and she is a kid and
> active. But on other occasions, if she were to walk by him while he is
> eating, or similar circumstances, he will snarl at her and even one
> time snarled and jumped towards her. We put him in the cage when he
> does this but just wandering why he does this. I'm sure the above
> story may have some holes in it and you may have questions, if so just
> ask.
This breed is known for possessiveness with food. There is potential for
someone to get bitten if they get too close to his food dish, or if some
item of food is dropped near him and a person is also nearby.
My top recommendation would be to hire a behavioral specialist who
deals with "resource-guarding" behavior, especially one who is familiar
with the Chesapeake breed. They can teach you protocols for diminishing
the behavior and keeping everyone as safe as possible.
A low-budget solution would be to always feed the dog privately, and
be rigidly careful about where food is and how it is handled, any time
he is at large in the house. My behaviorist friend says, however, that
"management always fails."
What I would not recommend is to punish the dog, snatch his food
away, or anything of that sort.
Obedience training always helps. This is a breed that really needs
to be trained. Defending food against a child, however,
is a behavioral issue that is not really between the (adult) trainer and
the dog,
so special attention to the issue is desirable.
On the business with the pool, these tend to be high-drive,
persistent, obsessive dogs. I have heard of some learning not to
scratch family members with the claws while swimming, but have
never taught that. Probably your best bet is to start crating him
now, before the behavior gets any further established.
If you don't mind saying, where do you live? Is your dog's breeder
local, and is he/she available to give you advice, recommend training
classes, and so forth?
Amy Dahl
Janet B
<handsomeja...@gmail.com>, clicked their heels and said:
>On 26 Jul 2006 12:27:26 -0700, "thepopster" <s.wet...@verizon.net>
>wrote:
>
>>I have a Chesepeake Bay Retriever pup about 8 months old..
>>Now, we can't keep him out of the water and he uses the ladder to get
>>out. We can't go swimming in piece without him in the pool and can't
>>keep him in the house, in a cage, without yelping at the top of his
>>lungs. But on other occasions, if she were to walk by him while he is
>>eating, or similar circumstances, he will snarl at her and even one
>>time snarled and jumped towards her. We put him in the cage when he
>>does this but just wandering why he does this. I'm sure the above
>>story may have some holes in it and you may have questions, if so just
>>ask.
>4. Have you given her any OBEDIENCE TRAINING?
Besides Jack's obviously good questions, I didn't catch how old this
granddaughter is, as a matter of affording more advice.
I left #4 above, and snipped the OP to leave pertinent info. You have
an above ground pool, you can block the ladder access and TEACH the
dog to stay out of the pool. Before "but we can't - he loves the
water", I have THREE retriever dogs here - 1, 6 and 9.5 years old. All
of them LOVE water. Can't get enough of it. I also have an inground
pool, with no barriers whatsoever between the dogs and the pool. They
are not allowed in and don't go in. Not even when in the yard on
their own (I don't leave them out when I'm not home, just FYI).
Like Jack, I wonder why you chose a CBR, but if you're determined to
keep him, TRAINING is not optional - you MUST train this dog, and do a
serious job of it. To do less will get very ugly.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
The_Insanely_Freakin_Simply...@hotmail.com
"thepopster" <s.wet...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1153942046....@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> I have a Chesepeake Bay Retriever pup about 8 months old.
A DOG Is A Dog;
As A KAT Is A KAT;
As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
As A HORSE Is A HORSE;
As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES;
As A Mass Murderer Is A Mass Murderer.
ALL Critters Only Respond In
PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them.
You GET The Critter You TRAINED
> In the same house with me and the dog are my daughter and
> grand daughter. In the back yard we have a deck to goes to an
> above the ground swimming pool. The pool is 4 feet deep and
> has a 2 foot wide aluminum deck that surrounds the pool. Of
> course the dog loves the water and also seems to like the grand
> daughter. While she is in the pool, if I'm not in there, he will
> swim towards here and with his paws, non-intentionally claw her.
That's accidental. You can teach him not to do that.
> He also goes kinda nuts and will run the circle around
> the deck of the pool as if he is trying to save her.
That's common. He's tryin to heelp.
> I have had her try not to run away or climb the ladder to get
> away from him just to see what he would do if he catches her
> and he does nothing when he gets to her.
Of curse <{}; ~ ) >
> Now, we can't keep him out of the water and he uses the ladder to get out.
Good. OtherWIZE he'd SINK bye an bye.
> We can't go swimming in piece without him in the pool and can't
> keep him in the house, in a cage, without yelping at the top of his
> lungs.
O.K. NO PROBLEMO:
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> On a normal day, he seems to want to be around her no
> matter where she goes.
Of curse. Dogs an kids go together like a child and paddle.
> This is understandable since he is a pup and she is a kid and
> active. But on other occasions, if she were to walk by him while
> he is eating, or similar circumstances, he will snarl at her and
> even one time snarled and jumped towards her.
NO PROBLEMO. That's caused by your trainin methods.
Here's a similar case history:
>From The Annals Of Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_
Research_Laboratory
Praising BAD Behaviors Is GOOD -
The Fastest Gentlest Most Effective Method
In The Whole Wild World,
Bar NONE. <{}; ~ ) >
HOWEDY People,
This post will cover most of what you never thought
of and MOORE than you already know about stuff...
> We have 3 children under age 13
> And a New Foundland/ Aussie Shep. mix.
Interesting X. I've never seen one of them
bfore, and I'm not big on "breed" issues,
but I just got to laugh at that picture I got
in my head of a Aussie runnin around in a
Nwfie suit. I'm fallin outta my armchair
and my sides are splittin!!!
> We have had this dog for 1.5 years. She was a
> rescue and she was 7 wks old when we got her.
Fine. I prefer to see pups get into their new HOWSES
as soon as they're weaned. Many folk prefer to allow
the pups to stay with mom till twelve weeks or so, but
I've never seen a problem for pups who'd been "orphaned"
and into their family much earlier. My preference is six
weeks. But that's not addressing your questions.
> She is fixed and weighs 73 lbs.
My 40 years experience and some studies I recently
read indicates some aggression may be precipitated
by S/N. It's a hot button topic for many people, because
it's one of those things where "you're damned if you do
and damned if you don't." FWIW, according to Judaic
law, spaying would be appropriate, neutering would not.
There's other laws in their book about such issues as
muzzling working draft animals etc. Very interesting stuff.
> I believe that she has been at this weight for nearly a year.
Oh drat! You just burst my bubble! Now I can't laugh
about a Aussie dressed in a Newfie suit.
> She is extremely energetic
When I hear that, I think HYPERACTIVE. Hyperactivity
is caused by stress barring such outside influences
as toxins in the environment or malignancy of some sort.
Purdue recently did some stuff on OCD and determined
that stress percipiticpates OCD behaviors (Duh-Oh!). No
news to this trainer.
That can be EXXXTINGUISHED in just a few minutes using
non physical brief variable distractions instantly followed by
prolonged non physical praise and praise in advance.
That's HOWE COME it's SO EZ for my students to break
the anxiety SYNDROME and rehabilitate their hyperactive
dogs in a few days, maybe less.
Thyroid problems could be involved there too, and
I've got a different take on that as well. I rather doubt
the thyroid or any system is likely to malfunction for
no reason. I believe that the constant on/off stress of
ORDINARY DAILY LIFE in an ORDINARY NORMAL
HOWEshold, is enough to push dogs, and some
breeds more EZily than other's over the edge, resulting
in obsessive compulsive behavior disorders like hyperactivity,
excessive chewing,barking, digging, pacing, HOWEling,
separation anxiety, self mutilation, fear of thunder, and
even most carsickness and urinary tract / bladder stone
symptoms, endocrin DIS-EASES an Cushings / Addison's
SYNDROME SYMPTOMS and even cataracts glaucoma
and dental DIS-EASE.
> and is really a sweet dog for the most part.
When I hear THAT, I don't wanna ask what's after
the most part...
> Our biggest problem is her attitude with our girls.
Bummer. I hate that. Scares the beejeesus outta me.
> She loves them one minute
Good, I'm relieved.
> and then for no apparent reason snarls at them.
Dogs don't do things for no reason. Do you know
what will provoke her? There's a commonality
between all behavior problems, so if you can think
of what when and where she'd had incidents in the
past, you might isolate the triggers, and then you're
half way done training her...
> I have been watching her intensely
Perhaps even just your scrutiny can be pressuring her.
Dogs are very sensitive critters, it doesn't take much
to throw them outta whack.
> and I can say without a doubt that none of our children
> have harmed the dog or scared her in any way.
Probably true, but that's the half of it also. I'll try to explain
later...
> She is extremely protective of food
Right. That sez to me, she's insecure. It's a survival
instinct. HOWE COME should she be insecure and
thinking of herself first, rather than "feedin the family,"
as a mom dog would do? Well, mom dogs do not,
they need to sustain themselves first, so they can take
care of the bigger picture, even if that means culling
her litter.
Greed is what it looks like, but dogs aren't capitalists,
so it's got to be something telling her there's not
enough to go around. Perhaps she's been teased with
treats or had rewards withheld? Dogs are scavengers.
They steal scraps of food and run to hide with their back
to the wall in a heightened state of alert.
Putting food or bribes into an untrusting dog's face
will likely make him think fight/flight/survive... so I
never use food bribes. Sure you can train animals
and slaves by withholding or treating with food, it's
the bottom line when you think about it. You'd need
a mighty big treat bag to control all the food in creation
Anything that takes precedence in your dog's mind
over you, is usurping your authority and diminishing
your dog's esteem for you.
> and once she has been given her food she will growl
> if anyone comes even remotely close.
Right. That sez to me she's not entirely trusting, that
something is concerning her that she's not SAFE.
AGGRESSION IS FEAR. We don't attack for no
reason, we attack to defend ourselves from a real
or perceived threat.
In looking for answers, I am not looking to make excuses
for the dog's behavior. I personally don't care HOWE COME
the dog does something, I deal with the whole problem from
another perspective entirely, and many of these insecurity
issues will be AUTOMAGICKALLY CURED, just by removing
the inconsistencies and stressors in her daily life.
Like tellin IT, "NO!" or any scolding or negative interaction.
Whoever said "it's a dogs life," never put on the hat...
Dogs are just as sensitive about family tensions like children
squabbling and parents correcting them or the dog, for
whatever.
LOOK at HOWE many times a day you probably have
to say 'STOP THAT!' and correct all of them? At bedtime
the kids may give you the standard bedtime runaround, a kid
falling and crying about it can make the dog nervous, anything
goes.
> She won't do that with me
Hmmm. That makes me very suspicious. I like
CONSISTENCY. Even if it's bad. But that may
be good too, cause it could give us some insight
into what's goin down here.
> but if someone else walks by she will growl even if
> they are in the other direction.
By 'someone else,' you mean the kids, anybody else
or everybody else? That too, may give some insight
as to what's cookin.
> Her snarling at the girls is in no way related to food.
Hmmm. She's OK with the kids and food? That's got
my antennae up. I believe you're sayin she's SAFE
with the girls passing her while eating. THAT makes
me very happy, if that's correct. At least about the
food issue but it offsets itself with the dichotomy
of her incidents with the kids. There's too many
inconsistencies, and that's gonna tell us what's
the problem, I think.
> And there is no one thing that sets her off.
Good. Tell us what you know of will set her off,
and we can figure out what's upsettin her and
HOWE to break the response.
> One minute she is happy and playing and the other
> she will snarl if they walk by.
That doesn't give me a clear picture. Again, if
you can predict when a behavior will happen,
we can set it up to break or extinguish it, if
it's still a problem after we do some simple
preliminary relaxation and conditioning exercises.
> It is as if she doesn't respect them.
Forget respect. FEAR. Something concerns her,
it's not disrespect.
> I should mention that the possibility of me
> meeting a dog behaviorist
You just did.
> is nil due to the fact we live in a remote part of Alaska,
No problem.
> accessible only by air.
Likewise. I do all my work from sittin right here stark
ravin nekkid.
> Any suggestions you can give would be greatly appreciated.
I'm wondering if you've done any training with her
and if so, HOWE was she trained. The fact she does
not growl at YOU when you're near her food is probably
not because it's you who gave her the food.
That she doesn't growl at the kids around the food,
makes me wonder if she's ever been corrected for
'food guarding' with the children.
That could explain HOWE COME she won't growl at
them near the food, but will in other situations particularly
play, concerns me, but in a GOOD way. That's displaced
aggression, I expect. That's cause by repressing behaviors.
My methods use alternately variable distractions and
prolonged non physical praise to extinguish the reflexive
behavior through triggerin and non fulfillment, not by ever
offering REPLACEMENT or alternate behaviors, because
THAT disavails us of training opportunities and leaves the
problem behavior intact, waitin on the whim of the dog.
That suggests to me that she may be reacting to
an incident perhaps long ago where she or the kids
had been scolded or corrected for roudy play?
That's called superstitious or flashback behavior, whereby
a former incident is thought of by a similar circumstance
and the dog simple flashes back to that former state
of mind and isn't even thinkin of the present, and usually
ends pretty quickly, soon as he realizes this is a different
time and place.
All we got to do is play with that thought a few times if
everything else is in order, and the dog will quickly override
his BOOGEYMAN...
The food guarding is not against the children, is that correct?
Perhaps I'm a little unclear on the scenario. I think you're
saying she's fine with you and the kids around the food, the
food being an issue for other family members, visitors etc?
Has she ever had an incident of growling at you? If so,
when, where, and HOWE did you respond to it. Also,
HOWE do you currently respond to her incidents with
the kids now and HOWE often does this happen?
Do you give her treats? Will she 'go off' around a
treat or only AT her food bowl, and is she OK with
your children around their food and do the children
give her treats and is she OK with that?
Finally, do you crate her? If so, does she go to her crate
on her own? If so, that too, can be causing or exacerbating
these issues.
Crating can cause a lot of problems for insecurity.
Because the crate becomes a safe haven for her,
kinda like hiding under the covers from the boogeyman,
when the door opens, it's like havin to get outta bed
in the dark to go to the toilet... SCARY!!!
You might crawl over the bed to get close the light
and then run and jump to hit the switch before the
monster under the bed can get your by your ankles.
Those answers will give us a better idea of exactly
HOWE COME the dog is growling. But after all is
said, it still doesn't matter to me except as a curiosity.
We'll fix this behavior problem EZ, I'm certain.
She doesn't sound too scary to me now that we've
looked at what she's doing. In fact, and please
correct me if I misunderstood, she's ONLY staring
and growling and showing some teeth? She's never
tried to assault the kids, right?
What do you feed and are you using any chemicals
around her like floor cleaners containing phenols? I ask
about food because some contain BHA, BHT, ETHOXYQUIN,
or propylene glycol as preservatives and they're suspect
of causing some hyperactive like behavior.
You might break the food guarding malarkey by simply
moving the dish to another location, preferably a neutral
area. IOW, take her out of the environment in which
she's accustomed to having incidents, and desensitize
her there.
But don't start messin with that stuff till you know
HOWE to handle it just in case she should go off
when you try testing it out. Besides, after an hour
of training that food thing will probably disappear
on it's own, just from the basic conditioning exercises.
You might try taking her dinner bowl in hand and
slowly walking her around while eating and making
passes by other folks. But not yet, you got a little
study to do and some practice... about two hours
work. Must be COLD out there.
Lets get the lesson plan in mind so you'll have your
wits about you if she should growl so we don't lose
an opportunity to address an incident should she growl,
because doin so in new environment would make it
that much easier to break, due to the change of environ.
Same question goes for the growling. Is that a generalized
behavior or does she only do it say, in the living room
or only inside the HOWES, will she growl if they're playin
outside.
Does she growl ONLY when she's in play? That
could be VERY telling. Does she growl when she
is NOT ALREADY EXCITED PLAYING (besides
at the food bowl, I'm over that)? If so, that's the
problem, BUT, that still leaves the question of
WHO does she growl at around food? That too
could tie up another loose end.
Does she always / sometimes / not often come to
the kids when they call her? Will she always come
to you when you call? Is she walked on leash often,
and is she well behaved or is it a struggle, and what
kind of collar do you use. Even though you're not
writing about an on leash problem, we're still gonna
need to work her on lead and longe line for the initial
conditioning exercises.
> Sincerely,
The program I teach begins by stopping all negative
or corrective responses and interactions with her. That
includes scolding the children, because that may be
what provokes her to growl. That's called allelomimetic
behavior. IOW, if you scold the kids for jumpin on the
sofa, the dog will copy your action and attitudes and
likewise correct them.
Sibling rivalry is not caused by siblings, is cause by
mishandling. Scolding one peer in front of the others
causes animosity towards the others whom the subject
was scolded in front of. That causes 2 things to happen.
The scolded party gets embarrasses and assaults
the observers of the scolding, or the observers copy
the disciplinarian, and likewise scold the subject.
Catch22.
HOWE are we gonna control three kid critters and
one Aussie runnin around in a midget Newfie suit???
Could take three juvenile detention and one AC
officers 24/8 to throw down on them when they get
goin like kids will do.
I'm pretty EZ going, but I require strict discipline. I
can't have a child interrupting me while I'm doin this
and have my dogs going kookamunga while I'm
trying to teach someone on the phone HOWE
to control their dog's barking, for example.
NOW I'd be curious about the ages of the kids
"children under age 13," cause if there's things like
hyperactive or disabled children or autistic kids or
an infant who'd maybe cry or have seizures or
whatever that could upset the dog.
I'm not lookin for excuses to mitigate her behavior, just
to understand it better so's we're lookin at the facts
of the matter based on what is happening Vs feelings
about HOWE whatever we may emotionally feel about
stuff.
We want to back away from the micro aspects
of the behavior so we can take in the big picture
and then we can see what parts don't fit, and figure
out what to do to remedy the etiology rather than
fightin symptoms of the problem, because as we
repress symptoms, they change, to other, often
worse, seemingly non related behaviors as
trainsfer or replacement behaviors.
That's HOWE COME so many dogs go through
every behavior problem in the book before simply
runnin outa behavior problems that haven't already
been repressed.
Think about it. As we repress all the normal puppy
behaviors we make the pup nervous cause he's only
a animal. They cannot know right from wrong, only
what's nice and what's not. They're not a human child,
they cannot understand BAD.
Dogs do not DO, BAD, dogs only do dog, and of curse,
they also copy us. As the dog matures to 8-9 months
they go through their 'adolescent rebellious' stage (Scott
& Fuller).
HOWE can a dog have a rebellious stage if there's
nothing to REBEL AGAINST? Well, he still has not
run through all the behavior problems he can be
provoked into, so when he's maturing as a teenager
and trying for more freedom, we become more repressive
because the dog is out of hand, and there goes the shootin
match.
My student's dogs do not go through that because we
never have a negative or forced interaction with them,
we NEVER tell them NO or INSIST on a command,
because THAT triggers the opposition reflex and makes
the dog rebel.
Our dogs are eager to work because we PRAISE IN
ADVANCE, with the command, all in one breath not
after the dog has finished doin his behavior. Dogs do
not work for credit. By the time the dog comes to
you when called, he's no longer thinking of the
command.
Dogs respond in predictable, innate normal
natural instinctive, reflexive, ways to situations
and circumstances of their environment which
we provide for them.
That means we can change or control the environment
to set the dog up to perform as predicted, and know
when to do what you've planned in advance, to properly
trigger / distract / praise / trigger / distract / praise the
behavior till it's extinguished, MUCH LIKE FLOODING,
but not quite...
Or, we may use traditional flooding techniques
with distraction / praise to extinguish behaviors.
Before addressing behavior problems we condition the
dog to praise with every brief eye contact and learn
HOWE to handle the lead so we're not pulling on the
collar and triggering the dog or hyping him up for
a random outburst.
Proper leash handling techniques insures safety
and teaches the dog gentleness and conditions
them to respond to our praise, as it entices the
dog in and settles him down in just a few minutes.
It's kinda like Dr. Ian Dunbar's "make like a tree," but
not really anything at all quite like it. They just look similar
at first glance. The Hot & Cold Exercise is like the kid's
game "gettin hotter gettin colder" with the dog's attention
and body as we stand and handle the lead properly to
get the feel for it and reassure the dogs we ain't gonna
be pullin no more on them.
After a few minutes the dog will be hangin out waitin
for you to do something, then you're ready to go into
the Family Leadership Exercise where we very subtly
work the dog in a conditioning routine we'll rely on for
other situations and begin to install the come command
as a conditioned reflex.
That usually takes my students about one hour, often less,
very rarely four hours, but that'd get a perfect recall on
the most difficult critter. Once we've got that dog willing to
work with us we can begin to break his behavior problems
using variable distractions and praise techniques.
Using praise in advance relaxes the dog and encourages
him. For training, isn't that all we need?
Praising BAD BEHAVIORS is GOOD. If your dog were
boltin out the door, it's not "NO! STOP!," it's GOOD
GIRL NICEDOG YOU'RE A GOOOOD FELLA!!.
The dog ain't goin NOWHERE except come back over
to you. Might even ask him if he wants to go to the park.
Sure he wants to but you don't. Who cares? He's only
a DOG. Tell him you're gonna put your shoes on to
go but it'll be a minit. Dogs like kids FORGET in a
minute... Tomorrow when you ARE going to the
park, tell him you're goin cause you PROMISED him
yesterday, and now it's time. They'll think you're the
kat's pajamas for bein the greatest mom/dad in the
Whole Wild World.
Dogs and kids just wanna have fun. Therefore my dogs
never see me frown on them. NO MATTER WHAT. I
never tell them NO or DON'T, or physically reach to
restrain them, partly because THAT would trigger the
opposition reflex and compel the dog to "outstep me"
and rush the door or eat the steak or whatever AND
teach the dog that doin THAT, will command 100%
of your undivided attention...
That's HOWE COME proper understanding of the
methods and developing the feel for leash handling
is imperative, so's we don't sabotage ourselves by
reacting to our own fears of dangerous situations
we're gonna work through in a few minutes if you
can refrain yourself from saying NO DON'T! and
pullin the lead to force control.
Of course I know that your dog isn't having leash
problems, but it fits here...
Our dogs naturally want to do everything they're asked,
cause just like kids an ladies, dogs just wanna have fun.
Your Puppy Wizard. <{}YPW; ~ } >
> We put him in the cage when he does this
Any behavior that's avoided ignored or repressed will
only get worse or change to other seemingly non related
behavior problems as TRAINsfer or anXXXIHOWESNESS
relief mechanisms <{): ~ ( >
> but just wandering why he does this.
He's PROTECTING her in the pool and protecting
hisslef from her when she's near his food because
he's been mishandled bribed and crated <{}: ~ ( >
> I'm sure the above story may have some holes
> in it and you may have questions, if so just ask.
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing
Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard DON'T
ASK QUESTIONS on accHOWENT of ALL temperament
and behavior problems are the same same:
The Methods, Principles And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change,
Or They'd Not Be Scientific
And Could Not Obtain
Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Safe Effective Results
For All Handler's And All Critters
And ALL Behaviors
ALL OVER THE WHOWEL WILD WORLD,
NEARLY INSTANTLY,
As Taught In Your FREE Copy Of The Simply Amazing
Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual <{): ~ ) >
> thanks
You're welcome!
Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last Student Demonstrated At
UofOH, That Rehabilitation Of Hyperactive Dogs Can
Easily And Readily Be Done Using TLC. Tender Loving
Care Is At The Root Of The Scientific Management Of
Doggys. <{) ; ~ ) >
"...all the highest nervous activity, as it manifests
itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a continual
change of these three fundamental processes --
excitation, inhibition and disinhibition," Ivan P. Pavlov
"Postitive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement. IOW,
emotions, not outside rewards, are what
reinforces any behavior," Ivan Pavlov.
"All animals learn best through play." -- Konrad Lorenz
"It is NO WONDER that the marked changes in
deviant behavior of children can be achieved
through brief, simple educative routines with
their mothers which modify the mother's social
behaviors shaping the child (Whaler, 1966). Some
clinics have reported ELIMINATION ofthe need for
child THERAPY through changing the clinical emphasis
from clinical to parental HANDLING of the child
(Szrynski 1965).
A large number of cases improved sufficiently after
preliminary contact with parents that NO treatment
of children was required, and almost ALL cases
SHOWE a remarkably shortened period for therapy.
Quite severe cases of anorexia nervosa have been
treated in own to five months by simply REPLACING
the parents temporarily with EFFUSIVELY LOVING
SUBSTITUTES (Groen, 1966)."
"Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVER LEARNING THEORY
model involves the USE OF PUNISHMENT. Of curse,
Skinner has never to my knowledge, demonstrated
HOWE we escape the phenomenon that an expected
reward not received is experienced as a punishment
and can produce extensive and persistent aggression
(Azrin et al, 1966)."
"The IMBECILITY of some of the claims for operant
technique simply take the breath away. Lovas et al
(1966) report a standard contingent reward/punishment
procedure developing imitative speech in two severly
disturbed non verbal schizophrenic boys. After twenty-
six days the boys are reported to have been learning
new words with alacrity. HOWEver, when REWARDS were
moved to a delayed contingency the behavior and learning
immediately deteriorated."
Punishment ALWAYS Deranges Behavior.
"NO!" Does NOT Have Any Behavioral Function
EXCEPT
To DERANGE Behaviors.
Here's professor "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM NO! into ITS face for
five seconds and lock IT in a box for ten minutes contemplation"
dermer of the Department of ANAL-ytic Behavior at UofWI, pryor:
From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST
And how do we know this aspect of his
advice is right?
Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.
(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
ill-mannered, or just plain ill.),
--Marshall
Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of
Wisconsin-Milwaukee/ Milwaukee, WI 53201/ der...@uwm.edu
http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
"Life is just too serious to be taken entirely seriousyl!"
From: der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer) -
Date: 1998/08/28
Subject: Re: Puppy growls and snaps
In article <6s6ea0$8c...@uwm.edu> der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall
Dermer) writes: In article <35E60819.65178...@pilot.msu.edu>
> >tami sutherland <suthe...@pilot.msu.edu> writes:
>> However, there have been incidences where she has
>> growled and snapped at us...for instance, when we
>> were trying to dry her off after bathtime.
> When your three-month old pooch growls or snaps, IMMEDIATELY
> pick her up ONLY by the skin at the back of her neck, for 5
> sec, and loudly say, "NO!" Alternatively, say "NO!" and hold
> her mouth shut for say 15 sec.
> If she so snaps that you can't do the above then you
> will have to find another way to administer a prompt
> correction, for example, throwing a can filled with
> pennies, or a tug on the collar. --Marshall
"Oops! I would start by only holing her mouth
shut for say 5 sec.
At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.
First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.
How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.
**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************
When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).
"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.
BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!
That's INSANE. Ain't it.
P.S. Contacting Dr. P:
Please note that due to the large number of
requests I receive, I can no longer give free,
personal advice on problems related to dog
training and behavior.
In order for me to give such advice we would
have to "talk" about the problem at length.
That is, I would need detailed information about
the dog, it's environment and routine, the problem,
and the situation in which the problem occurs.
Thus, this type of consultation takes time which
I cannot afford to give away for free.
If you wish such advice, please see the information
I have provided about my K9 Behavioral Consulting
practice. Another alternative to obtaining personal
advice is to participate in e-mail, chat room, &
newsgroup discussions.
P.P.S. BWEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
YOU'RE FRAUDS, drs p. and dermer!
Either DEFEND your LIES, ABUSE And
Degrees or get the heel HOWETA THIS
BUSINESS.
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
To: "Jerry Howe" <theamazingpuppywiz...@mail.com>
Subject: Alleged Professors of Animal Behavior
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:50:51 -0400
Dear Jerry, I paged through some of the "dog business"
and was astonished at the low quality of opinions arising
from professors of behavior analysis.
I had the very great privilege of meeting Sam Corson
(Pavlov's last Ph.D. student) and his dogs at Ohio
University. I even got to spend a night at Sam's house.
There is no question but that you are a spiritual brother
to Corson and to Pavlov, both of whom knew that the dog's
great capacity for love was the key to shaping doggie behavior.
Paradoxical reward and paradoxical fixing of attention are
both well documented Pavlovian techniques. Even so humorless
a chap as B.F. Skinner taught students like the Breland's whose
"The Misbehavior of Organisms" demonstrate the utility of your
methods and their deep roots in scientific (as opposed to
commercial) psychology.
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
you may find my resume in Who's Who in
Science and Technology
Here's professor dermer AFTER gettin JERRYIZED:
"We Are Lucky To Have You, And More People Should
Come To Their Senses And Support Your Valuable Work.
God Bless The Puppy Wizard," Professor Marshall Dermer,
Dept Of ANAL-ytic Behavior, UofWI.
From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@csd.uwm.edu>
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
<ThePuppyWiz...@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM
Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,
I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.
You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts to
alert the world to animal abuse.
We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and support your valuable
work.
Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
charity to fund your important work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?
In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.
--Marshall Dermer
---------------------
Damn The Descartean War of
"Nature Vs Nurture."
We Teach By HOWER Words
And Actions And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.
In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
SAME SAME SAME SAME,
For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.
"The day may come when the rest of the animal creation
may acquire those rights
which never could have been withholden from them
but by the hand of tyranny.
The question is not can they REASON,
nor can they TALK,
but can they SUFFER?" -
- Jeremy Bentham
All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer
"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.
"If you've got them by the balls their
hearts and minds will follow,"
John Wayne.
The Insanely Freakin Simply Amazing Grand Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ )
Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
Human And Animal Behavior
Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory,
BIOSOUND Scientific,
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St
Orlando, FL 32805
Phone: 1-407-425-5092
Email:
The_Insanely_Freakin_Simply_Amazing_Grand_Puppy_Wiza...@HotMail.Com
The Incredibly Freakin Simply Amazing Grand Puppy Wizard <{TIFSAGPW}; -
) >
ANY QUESTIONS, DUMMIES?
,-._,-,
V)"(V
(_o_) Have a great day!
/ V)
(l l l) Your Puppy Wizard. <{YPW} ; ~ } >
oo-oo
Amy Dahl
Janet B wrote:
>
> I left #4 above, and snipped the OP to leave pertinent info. You have
> an above ground pool, you can block the ladder access and TEACH the
> dog to stay out of the pool. Before "but we can't - he loves the
> water", I have THREE retriever dogs here - 1, 6 and 9.5 years old. All
> of them LOVE water. Can't get enough of it. I also have an inground
> pool, with no barriers whatsoever between the dogs and the pool. They
> are not allowed in and don't go in. Not even when in the yard on
> their own (I don't leave them out when I'm not home, just FYI).
I'm going to respectfully repeat my preference for using the crate in the
house. I wholeheartedly endorse training--obedience training preferably
followed by Agility or retriever training or something to occupy the dog's
active mind. But getting a Chesapeake to refrain from something it
is obsessed with is not a beginner task. Attempting it, IMO, is more
likely to weaken the owner's credibility than anything else. Better to
crate the dog and prevent further development of the obsession while
he/she learns to train it.
> Like Jack, I wonder why you chose a CBR, but if you're determined to
> keep him, TRAINING is not optional - you MUST train this dog, and do a
> serious job of it. To do less will get very ugly.
It's true. These are dogs with great desire for mental challenge as well
as
physical. They are also very people-oriented and interested in
relationships. This frequently leads them to discover that there is a lot
of entertainment in pushing the owner's buttons. Better to start early
with the training and channel all of that motivation to constructive
endeavors.
A lot of them end up in rescue around 1-1.5 years of age.
I love the breed, but they are dogs to take seriously.
Amy Dahl
The_Insanely_Freakin_Simply...@hotmail.com
dog murderin puppy miller and professional dog trainin FRAUD
and shock collar salesman and chronic long term acute incurable
mental case,
Handsome Jack Morrison wrote:
> On 26 Jul 2006 12:27:26 -0700, "thepopster" <s.wet...@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
> >I have a Chesepeake Bay Retriever pup about 8 months old.
You occasionally have litters of Chessies, don't you, tommy?
> Because you're posting from Google, and Googloids
> seldom respond to any advice that's given them,
PERHAPS THAT'S on accHOWENT of they've seen your POSTED
CASE HISTORY of HURTIN INTIMIDATIN an MURDERIN innocent
defenseless dumb critters an LYIN abHOWET it, eh tommy?
OtherWIZE you wouldn't post anonymHOWEsly, would you, tommy.
> please answer a few questions for me and then I'll help you out.
Is this the game, 20 Questions, tommy? Or is it Passover?
> 1. Did you research the Chessapeake Retriever
> breed before you got her?
Chessies are WONderful dogs, don't you know, tommy?
> 2. If not, have you researched the breed since then?
That's IRRELEVENT, tommy.
> 3. Why did you choose the Chesapeake Bay Retriever breed?
Perhaps it was the ONLY dog in the shelter for adoption, eh tommy?
> 4. Have you given her any OBEDIENCE TRAINING?
You mean jerkin chokin cratin bribin and shockin, tommy?
You sez:
"At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a
dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin does
*not* constitute a "beating.""
And then you sez:
"I don't know how big you are, kiddo, so this may
not be as easy for you as it is for me, but use
a little "knee action," that is, as the dog goes
charging by you, just give the dog a little bop
with your knee and shin. Yep, really lean into it.
Even knock her over, if you can, but make sure to
make her think twice about rushing past you again -
- which is exactly what you want her to do.
Don't bother with scolding her, she'll get the message.
If it happens again, just REPEAT the knee action.
When she steps on your toes, just pick up your foot
abruptly and nudge her with your knee. Again, no
scolding is necessary here, so you don't have to
worry about her "over-reacting."
I don't think this is necessarily a lack of respect
for you, just a lack of training. That is, she just
needs *more* of it."
YOU SEZ:
"My objective is always to find a way that WORKS.
And if it is DANGEROUS behavior that I'm trying
to modify, behavior than can get the dog KILLED,
I will resort to ANYTHING to save him.
A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G.
Okay. Call me a cruel, inhumane, abusive bastard
if you want to, but it doesn't affect me at all.
When you've saved the lives of as many dogs as I
have, you'll learn that that's the only thing that
really matters. Saving lives and making dogs become
good citizens"
HOWE abHOWET all them DEAD DOGS you TRAINED RIGHT
HERE that your TERRORIZM DIDN'T SAVE, tommy?
Like Robert Crim's, kwbrown's, laura arlov's,
tara o.' DEAD DOGS, FOR EXXXAMPLE, tommy?
Here's HOWE COME laura KILLED her dog Chewie:
From: Laura Arlov (l...@wordfixers.no)
Subject: Re: Chewie bit my husband !
Date: 1999/01/20
Well, we're doing as you say Dogman,
and I'll keep you all posted.
-------------------------
Subject: < BEFORE -> "Jerry, You filthy, Unctuous,
No Good Charlatan,"
< AFTER -> "Thank You Jerry For Putting Up With
A Constant Barrage Of Really Infantile
Crap At The Hands Of Supposedly Adult
Dog Lovers.
'Naive' Is Believing You Can Terrorize
A Dog Into Good Behavior," Robert Crim.
>Subject: Re: Fritz---a retrospective
>Date: 02/05/1999
>Author: Robert Crim <fritzg...@earthlink.net>
> You filthy, unctuous, no good charlatan. If you had
> any idea of what dogs and dog people were about
> you would realize the depths of the absolute loathing
> and contempt I hold for you right now. Were it not
> for the blessed distance and anonymity that the internet
> gives us from the scummy likes of you, I would probably
> be in a jail cell right now for turning you into the pile
> of shit you really are
Hey, Howe, you really are a wacko, eh?
Crim wrote this about *YOU,* you insipid piece of cow dung!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@i1.net
http://www.i1.net/~dogman
=====================
> On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:24:15 -0700, dogsnus
<"Terri"@cyberhighway> Wrote:>
> Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
> He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
> watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
> Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
> come forward and actually believe in his training manual.
Robert Crim writes:
I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope,
understood enough of the manual and it's counterparts by
John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe
and use it.
This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.
The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.
To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog.
Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake
names are more honest than people that use their real
names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.)
are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.
"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.
Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.
> And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and
> actually admit to buying and having success with his
> little black box.
I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.
> Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
> Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming
> to him! LOL!
I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.
>Terri
Yes it was, and that is sad.
Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)
===========
Crim wrote THAT about *YOU,* tommy,
"you insipid piece of cow dung!"
------------------
> 5. Did you get your dog from a breeder?
Like you, tommy?
> 6. If not, where did you get her?
That's IRRELEVENT, tommy.
> 7. How old was she when you got her?
That's IRRELEVENT, tommy.
> Thanks!
Thank you for all the advice, tommy <{}; ~ ) >
> --
> Handsome Jack Morrison
HOWEDY tommy sorenson you anonymHOWES lying dog abusing
punk thug coward mental case,
Handsome Jack Morrison wrote:
> On 10 Jan 2006 16:21:54 -0800, cafa...@comcast.net wrote:
>
> > My wife and I took in a standard poodle (we are standard poodle
> > addicts) from a rescue. When she is out in the yard (very seldom) she
> > will run up to any of our neighbors and bark aggressively at them like
> > she is going to attack. However, if anyone reacts by jumping at her she
> > runs off scared to death. I want this behavior stopped she is scaring
> > the neighbor children to death!
>
> <sigh>
"Sigh", tommy? Seems you been playin with the girls too much lately.
The girls sigh when they GOT NO INFORMATION, tommy. HOWE COME do you
sigh? You got ALL the INFORMATION the O.P. needs to know, don't you,
tommy <{); ~ ) >
> Have you ever considered OBEDIENCE TRAINING?
You SELL "obedience training", don't you tommy.
Obedience training MIGHT train the dog to do come but it WON'T
train the dog not to bark at the kids. WILL IT, tommy. All "obedience
training" can do abHOWET the barkin at kids is to make the dog shut
up AFTER IT has DONE what he DON'T WANT the dog to be doin.
AIN'T THAT CORRECT, tommy?
> > She also runs out when I leave a little opening in the
> > front door and ignores me as I run around trying to catch her.
>
> Again...have you ever considered OBEDIENCE TRAINING?
HOWE is "obedience training" gonna train the dog not to bolt through
doors?
> >Otherwise, she is obediant
>
> In other words...she's obedient when she's not disobedient?
RIGHT. THAT'S HOWE COME he's askin YOU for heelp, AIN'T IT, tommy.
> <sigh>
You mean you AIN'T GOT NO ADVICE, tommy? Here's some of your
advice when you THOUGHT you was a DOG TRAINER, REMEMBER tommy?:
"At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a
dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin does
*not* constitute a "beating.""
And then you sez:
"I don't know how big you are, kiddo, so this may
not be as easy for you as it is for me, but use
a little "knee action," that is, as the dog goes
charging by you, just give the dog a little bop
with your knee and shin. Yep, really lean into it.
Even knock her over, if you can, but make sure to
make her think twice about rushing past you again -
- which is exactly what you want her to do.
Don't bother with scolding her, she'll get the message.
If it happens again, just REPEAT the knee action.
When she steps on your toes, just pick up your foot
abruptly and nudge her with your knee. Again, no
scolding is necessary here, so you don't have to
worry about her "over-reacting."
I don't think this is necessarily a lack of respect
for you, just a lack of training. That is, she just
needs *more* of it."
Here's your highly recommended koehler method, tommy:
"The Koehler Method of Dog Training" Howell Book House," 1996
William Koehler
BARKING, WHINING, HOWLING, YODELING, SCREAMING, AND WAILING
The fact that you realize you have such a problem makes it certain
you have "reproved" the dog often enough to let him know you were
against his sound effects, even though your reproving didn't quiet
them, so we'll bypass the loudly clapped hands, the cup of water in
his face, and the "shame-shames" and start with something more
emphatic.
We'll begin with the easiest kind of vocalist to correct: the one
that charges gates, fences, doors, and windows, barking furiously at
familiar or imaginary people and objects. A few clusters of BBs from
a good slingshot, in conjunction with the light line and plenty of
temptations, will cause such a dog to use his mind rather than his
mouth.
But you won't make the permanent impression unless you
supply dozens of opportunities for him to exercise the control he
thus acquires. Make sure these opportunities don't always come at
the same time of the day, else he may learn to observe the "quiet
hour" and pursue his old routines at other times.
With the help of the light line, it will be easy to follow the BBs
with a long down to make sure he gets the most from his lesson. As
was mentioned before, eliminating the senseless barking will not
lessen the dog's value as a watchdog but rather, as he grows more
discriminating, increase it.
The dog who vocalizes in bratty protest or lonesomeness because
you're gone constitutes a different problem. If it is impractical
for someone to stay with him constantly (there are owners who cater
to neurosis by employing dog sitters), you'll have to heed
the neighbors and the law and quiet the dog. This calls for a little
ingenuity as well as a heavy hand.
Attach a line to your dog's collar, so your corrective effort
doesn't turn into a footrace around the house until you reach a
stalemate under the bed. This use of the line in the correction will
also serve to establish it as a reminder to be quiet as the dog
drags it around when you're not present. Next, equip yourself with a
man's leather belt or a strap heavy enough to give your particular
dog a good tanning.
Yup-we're going to strike him. Real hard. Remember,
you're dealing with a dog who knows he should be quiet and
neighbors who have legal rights to see that he does.
Now leave, and let your fading footsteps tell the dog of your going.
When you've walked to a point where he'll think you're gone but
where you could hear any noises he might make, stop and listen. If
you find a comfortable waiting place on a nearby porch, be careful
not to talk or laugh. Tests show a dog's hearing to be many times as
sharp as yours.
When the noise comes, instead of trying to sneak up to the door so
you can barge in while he's still barking, which is generally
impossible, respond to his first sound with an emphatic bellow of
"out," and keep on bellowing as you charge back to his area.
Thunder through the door or gate, snatch up the belt that you've
conveniently placed, and descend on him. He'll have no chance to
dodge if you grab the line and reel him in until his front feet are
raised off the floor or, if he's a big dog, until you've snubbed him
up with a hitch on something. While he's held in close, lay the
strap vigorously against his thighs.
Keep pouring it on him until he thinks it's the bitter end. A real
whaling now may cut down somewhat on the number of repeat
performances that will be necessary.
When you're finished and the dog is convinced that he is, put him on
a long down to think things over while you catch your breath. After
fifteen or twenty minutes, release him from the stay and leave the
area again.
So that you won't feel remorseful, reflect on the truth that a great
percentage of the barkers who are given away to "good homes" end
up in the kindly black box with the sweet smell. Personally, I've
always felt that it's even better to spank children, even if they
"cry out," than to "put them to sleep."
You might have a long wait on that comfortable porch before your
dog starts broadcasting again. When he does, let your long range
bellow tie the consequent correction to his first sound and repeat
the spanking, if anything emphasizing it a bit more.
It might be necessary to spend a Saturday or another day off so that
you'll have time to follow through sufficiently. When you have a
full day, you will be able to convince him each yelp will have a bad
consequence, and the consistency will make your job easier. If he
gets away with his concert part of the time, he'll be apt to gamble
on your inconsistency.
After a half dozen corrections, "the reason and the correction" will
be tied in close enough association so that you can move in on him
without the preliminary bellowing of "out." From then on, it's just
a case of laying for the dog and supplying enough bad
consequences of his noise so he'll no longer feel like gambling.
Occasionally, there is a dog who seems to sense that you're hiding
nearby and will utter no sound. He also seems to sense when you
have really gone away, at least according to the neighbors. Maybe
his sensing actually amounts to close observation. He could be
watching and listening for the signs of your actual going.
Make a convincing operation of leaving, even if it requires changing
clothes and being unusually noisy as you slam the doors on the
family car and drive away. Arrange with a friend to trade cars a
block or two from your house so you can come back and park within
earshot without a single familiar sound to tell the dog you've
returned. A few of these car changes are generally enough to fool
the most alert dog.
Whether your dog believes you are gone anytime you step out of the
house or requires the production of changing clothes and driving
off, keep working until even your neighbors admit the dog has
reformed. If there has been a long history of barking and whining,
it sometimes requires a lot of work to make a dog be quiet when
you're not around, so give the above method an honest try before
you presume your dog requires a more severe correction.
> --
> Handsome Jack Morrison
> *gently remove the detonator to reply by e-mail
Here's lyingdogDUMMY BEATIN a dog to HOWEsbreak IT:
"Handsome Jack Morrison"
<handsomemorri...@thedetonatorearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:a236iv0ngp58gv9jm...@4ax.com...
> On 26 Jul 2003 22:14:29 GMT, dogstar...@aol.com
> (DogStar716) wrote:
> >>> Never mind dogman :)
> >> You too? Some folks just never learn.
> > Uh huh :)
> One of the signs of mental illness is to say "Uh huh" a lot.
> >> PS: If the "trainer" you were talking about isn't on this
> >> list, he (or she) is NOT an approved Koehler trainer, no
> >> matter how loud you scream otherwise.
> > May I laugh again? LOL! One doesn't need to be on a list
> > to use Koehlers methods or teach his methods.
> Let me be among the first (apparently) to tell you that not
> every trainer who uses a leash is a *Koehler* trainer.
> Sheesh.
> This person may call herself a Koehler trainer, but if she's
> hanging 12 week old puppies, she's about as far from a
> Koehler trainer as a dog trainer can possibly be.
> Again, this is just your IGNORANCE showing.
> I can call myself a devout Christian, but if I'm not
> adhering to the doctrine, I'm something else.
> >> http://www.koehlerdogtraining.com/patoflearn.html
> > Sorry, the very first sentences make me aware that whoever
> > wrote it knows nothing about PR based training:
> > "Amidst the current (and politically correct) trend in
> > Positive Reinforcement Only training systems"
> > You cannot use PR only.
> Au contraire. Many, many posters to r.p.d.b. (and many
> other places as well) *claim* that they use nothing but R.
> You know, the PPers.
> And they do it quite loudly, too.
> Surely you aren't blind (and deaf), as well as ignorant?
> Those are hard handicaps to overcome, Dogstar.
> >And if you knew anything about PR BASED training, you would
> >realize that. It's not all cookies and babytalk.
> There is no stronger supporter of R than Handsome Jack
> Morrison, but I also use every behavioral tool in my bag,
> including R-, P, and P-, because I know that even R has its
> limits.
> You'd know that too, if you didn't have your head in the
> sand.
> > But that seems to be the battle cry of the Koehler-ites.
> The Koehlerites have no battle cry.
> They have behaviorism on their side, and that's more than
> enough.
> >I don't need instruction on how to give my dogs a proper
> >leash correction as I
> >do not rely on a leash to control or teach my dog.
> That may or may not be suitable for your needs, but it's not
> suitable for the majority of dog owners, especially since
> the advent of leash laws.
> Besides, after just a few weeks of proper Koehler training,
> Koehler dogs likewise are no longer in need of a leash.
> That you apparently don't know that, once again shows me
> just how ignorant of anything to do with Koehler you are.
> > My last two dogs have been trained offleash right from the
> > start, using rewards for what I like, and nothing for what
> > I don't like.
> Good for you, and if that level of training is good enough
> for you, fine. But it's not good enough for many of the
> rest of us.
> > Again, I'm not saying Koehler doesn't work.
> I really have no idea what you're saying anymore, because
> you apparently know so damn little about Koehler and
> behavioral principles in general that it's hard to have an
> informed discussion with you.
> PS: It boggles my mind at how stupid you must be to keep
> denying that those certain harsh methods are only for LAST
> RESORT situations, intended only to SAVE A DOG'S LIFE,
> even after I've repeatedly given you direct *quotes* from
> Koehler's book saying just that. It's like you don't even
> care how stupid people think you are, or how devious you
> are, etc. That can't help your cause any. You'd think that
> you'd at least want to *appear* to be honest, even if you're
> not. -- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove the detonator
> to reply via e-mail
"Handsome Jack Morrison"
<handsomemorri...@thedetonatorearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:spb3ivgh7prvq9omh...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:52:18 -0400, "Krishur"
> <kris_br...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Good books huh?
> Absolutely. Some are, in fact, classics.
> >Which idea was your favorite, the one where they tell you
> >to alpha roll a "dominant" dog,
> There's nothing inherently wrong with rolling a dog (i.e.,
> it *can* and *does* work in *some* situations).
> Unfortunately, most people either do it incorrectly, do it
> at the wrong time, etc.
> > or where they tell you that you didn't hit him hard enough
> > if he doesn't yelp or approaches you within 5 minutes of
> > his punishment?
> If physical discipline is deemed necessary (after careful
> evaluation), it's much more cruel not to get it over with
> quickly than it is to do it incrementally and
> half-heartedly, which usually only invites the need for even
> more discipline.
> > Maybe you liked when they recommend these beatings for
> > housebreaking accidents, chewing/destructive behavior,
> > stealing, trying to get on your bed
> > at night and dog on dog aggression.
> At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a dog. A
> swat on the rump or a check to the chin does *not*
> constitute a "beating."
> I'm sorry if you don't agree.
> And each of those behavior "problems" needs to be looked at
> in its proper context.
> A quote from the Monks:
> "We repeat, these situations may merit physical discipline.
> Since no book can pretend to analyze every individual dog
> and situation, we feel obligated to emphasize from the
> outset that discipline is never an arbitrary training
> technique to be applied to each and every dog for all
> offenses. We do, however, believe that physical and verbal
> discipline can be an effective technique. The best policy if
> you experience any of the above problems is to consult a
> qualified trainer or veterinarian for evaluation of your
> individual situation....
> "If discipline is decided upon as a training technique, it
> should be the proper technique. We feel we have developed
> several methods that depend less on violent physical force
> than timing, a flair for drama, and the element of surprise.
> We feel an obligation, as responsible trainers, to map out
> these methods, rather than simply skip the topic because it
> is unpleasant. Dog owners want to know what to do."
> In other words, physical discipline is reserved for those
> serious, special occasions when other methods have failed.
> For example, they do not recommend using physical discipline
> for *routine* housebreaking chores -- only on those rare
> occasions when an already reliably housebroken dog is (after
> careful evaluation) deemed to be soiling the house on
> purpose, backsliding, etc.
> I'll give you an actual example. Years ago, an adult dog
> was brought to me as an *incurable* house-soiler. It was
> either get the dog reliably housetrained or the dog was
> going on a one way trip to the pound. Being the kind,
> compassionate trainer that I am, I was prepared to do
> whatever it took to get this dog house-trained and save his
> life.
> After several weeks of more or less traditional training,
> and to poor result, I brought out the big guns -- physical
> and verbal discipline. Whenever the dog soiled the house
> (no, you don't even have to catch him in the act), I
> immediately (but very calmly) tossed a leash on his collar,
> dragged him to the scene of the crime, and (using a large
> chair as a prop) tethered him to the leg of the chair, with
> his nose about two inches away from the poop. After a
> couple of swats on the rump, some loud vocalizing, and a
> wait of about 20 minutes, I'd release the dog and then
> ignore him for a while. I had to repeat this process *three*
> times, I think -- and the house-soiling miraculously
> stopped. The dog went home to enjoy a long and contented
> life with his original owners, and I got to feel good about
> myself.
> So, yes, the Monk's books are good ones. Even for novices.
> Yup, that's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.
> -- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove the detonator to
> reply via e-mail
NHOWE START WALKIN THE WALK.
HOWEDY tommy,
Handsome Jack Morrison wrote:
> Never let it be said that Handsome Jack Morrison
> doesn't go the extra mile in his pursuit of Truth,
> Justice and the American Way.
But OF CURSE! You S-HOWEND just like captain arthur
haggerty, your MENTOR, and his flunky pal STUDENT
booby maida, another fighter for truth and justice
and the AMERICAN WAY just like yourself, tommy.
> I just got off the phone with Fr. Mark at the Monks,
Ain't THAT charmin, eh tommy? Did you IDENTIFY YOURSELF
or did you go by your false name of joey finnochario like
you used when you looked up The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
records at Orlando City Hall, eh tommy?
> and he said that the price for Monks pups at the current
> time is $2000 (recently raised from $1750, because they
> breed less often these days).
Meanin since the GSD has been on the DECLINE due to
heelth and temperament PROBLEMS reported RIGHT HERE
on The Amazing Puppy Wizard's Forums, eh tommy?
> They've *never* sold one for more than $3500, and that
> was for a fully-trained *adult* GSD, with OTCH prospects
You mean he wasn't even started, tommy.
> (for a comparison, it's not that rare for FC retrievers
> to change hands for 6 figure amounts).
INDEEDY? But not through a PUPPY MILLER like yourself, tommy.
> They also put *each* dog that's in their breeding program
> through the standard battery of health testing, including
> hips, elbows, eyes, vWD, etc., but he wasn't sure what the
> entire protocol was.
That's EZ tommy, it's been written abHOWET RIGHT HERE
by your own punk thug coward mental case pal Master Of
Deception blankman. She sez they say they STRESS their
puppies in a variety of ways to make them better...
"I know not everyone is comfortable with the modified
Koehler style promoted by the Monks -"
And she's a lying dog abusing MENTAL CASE herself,
just like you, tommy, ain't that the TRUTH?
But we wasn't talkin abHOWET her, we was talkin abHOWET you:
You sez:
> At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a
> dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin does
> *not* constitute a "beating."
And then you sez:
"I don't know how big you are, kiddo, so this may
not be as easy for you as it is for me, but use
a little "knee action," that is, as the dog goes
charging by you, just give the dog a little bop
with your knee and shin. Yep, really lean into it.
Even knock her over, if you can, but make sure to
make her think twice about rushing past you again -
- which is exactly what you want her to do.
Don't bother with scolding her, she'll get the message.
If it happens again, just REPEAT the knee action.
When she steps on your toes, just pick up your foot
abruptly and nudge her with your knee. Again, no
scolding is necessary here, so you don't have to
worry about her "over-reacting."
I don't think this is necessarily a lack of respect
for you, just a lack of training. That is, she just
needs *more* of it."
> He's going to have Fr. John call me back with more information.
Yeah, but you're a PROVEN LIAR and DOG ABUSING MENTAL CASE
and YOU MAKE MONEY off of SELLIN THEIR BOOKS and MOVIES,
tommy, so your WORD is that of a SPAMMER and SCAMMER, to boot:
Date: 1999/01/15
Subject: Re: Another mouthy lab
Get this book:
"The Art of Raising A Puppy," by the Monks of New Skete
If you can't find it locally, you can obtain it
through my Web site (see below).
You'll need it for more than just the usual puppy
"mouthing" problems, anyway.
And good luck with your Lab puppy!
--
Dogman
> [Fr. John just called me back(on my cell phone), but I
> was in my truck and apparently in a dead zone of some kind,
You been in a DEAD ZONE since DAY WON P.T.A.P.W.E. (Pryor
to The Amazing Puppy Wizard Era). BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHHAAA!!!
> so we couldn't hear each other very well.
NO PROBLEMO, tommy. We'll just accept you WORD for
what you'd LIKE us to BELIEVE.
LIKE THIS:
From: dog...@i1.net (Dogman)
Date: 1999/01/17
Subject: Re: Training book by a bunch of monks
Upon my return to the Cuckoo's Nest, Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:22:02 GMT,
khay...@cave-systems.on.ca (Kevin Haryett) says:
"The Art of Raising A Puppy," by the Monks of New Skete
*Very* good book...but forget the stuff about "alpha rolls."
--
Dogman
From: bob...@aol.com (Bob Maida)
Date: 2000/06/24
Subject: Re: Best behavior book?
HI,
2 books, I would recommed are Understanding Your
Dog by Dr Michael Fox Mother Knows Best by Carol
Benjamin The Art of Raising A Puppy by The Monks of
New Skete (and NO, the Monks book does not have the
"alpha roll" in it)
------------------
Seems WON of you BELIEVERS in TRUTH JUSTICE and
The AMERICAN WAY is a doGgamened LIAR, eh tommy?
We know who THAT is, tommy... it's YOUR PAL gumbah
booby maida, captain arthur haggerty's PROTEGE.
BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAAHHAHAAAA!!!
NOT FOR NUTHIN, other than to substantiate
that you mentally ill lying dog abusing punk
thug coward mental cases will do and say ANY
THING to defend your alleged RIGHT to HURT
INTIMDIATE and MURDER innocent critters.
> We arranged for me to call him back tomorrow,
> this time on a land line, to discuss it further.
What's to DISCUSS, tommy? You're a liar and dog
abuser like your mentally ill pat booby, and the
monks are a bunch of heavy handed ignorant puppy
milling LHOWETS, like yourself, tommy.
> He said he was very happy to talk about it,
That so? Let's talk abHOWET YOUR DOGS, tommy?
Let's talk abHOWET your CHUMPION FIELD DOGS,
eh tommy? AIN'T YOU PRHOWED of your kennels?
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAAAA!!!
> because they were very proud of the testing they do,
That so? And they're VERY PRHOWED of THIS:
From: "Jerry Howe" <j...@cfl.rr.com>
Date: 2000/09/19
Subject: The Monks Of New Skete
Recommend These Disciplinary Measures:
The Monks look charming on the outside, but
they have heavy handed techniques.
I've seen advice as to how to hit your dog coming
from them, and lots of other non productive, even
dangerous advice.
While I realize that your definition of abuse differs
greatly from mine, I have spent most of the last thirty-
six years retraining dogs brought up and trained by
abusive techniques.
In The Art of Raising a Puppy , copyright 1991, the
Monks of New Skete recommend these disciplinary measures:
1. Scruff shake. (recommended for puppies, 8-12 weeks)
Grab scruff of neck, shake firmly, bark "NO!"
2. Shakedown. Grab sides of throat with both hands,
lifting dog's front feet off floor, stare, shake
several times, and bark "NO!"
3. "Using a firm cuff underneath the chin with your
opened hand...To make this correction effectively,
your dog must be anchored in a sitting position with
your left hand holding onto his collar.
As you make eye contact with your dog, cuff the
underside of his mouth with your opened right
hand, rapping him sharply several times, as you
say NO!" (recommended for 5-6 month old puppies)
4. Stick finger down throat to stop mouthing or
squeeze and shake muzzle hard enough to elicit
a whine, and bark "NO!"
5. To stop jumping, grab front paws of jumping
pup, and force him to remain in that position
long enough to become uncomfortable.
6. Leash Pop with choke collar (Also pupularized
as the Margolis Jerk)
Those actions and attitudes are behaviors your
dog will learn to copy, and apply to you.
Let me start by calling attention to the recent
notoriety of shaken baby syndrome. Although dogs
have a loose scruff, the brain damage can result
just the same, and disk damage may occur.
The ubiquitous leash pop is my number one gripe.
It is recommended and used by almost everyone.
The sharp corrections on leash continue throughout
the life of the dog.
It is recommended they be increased in severity
and frequency as the dog becomes more resistant
and the trainer thinks the dog knows what is
expected of him but the dog refuses to do it.
(Dogs don't do things out of spite!) Nerve damage
can result from leash corrections. Makes me nauseous
to hear people say that dogs don't feel pain the
same way we do.
As a society we don't condone treating our children
or employees that way. What makes abuse O.K. for
animals? Force, abuse, and punishment do not have
any place in a learning environment!
Most of the mistakes our dogs make are not even
understood by the dog to be mistakes. The punishment
is not understood, and behavior problems result
from the abuse.
BUT YOU SEZ:
"My objective is always to find a way that WORKS.
And if it is DANGEROUS behavior that I'm trying
to modify, behavior than can get the dog KILLED,
I will resort to ANYTHING to save him.
A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G.
Okay. Call me a cruel, inhumane, abusive bastard
if you want to, but it doesn't affect me at all.
When you've saved the lives of as many dogs as I
have, you'll learn that that's the only thing that
really matters. Saving lives and making dogs become
good citizens"
HOWE abHOWET all them DEAD DOGS you TRAINED RIGHT
HERE that your TERRORIZM DIDN'T SAVE, tommy?
> --
>
> Handsome Jack Morrison
> *gently remove the detonator to send me e-mail
Here tommy, lemme give you a hand with
that tricky little pin... there, got it.
Hold this and please hold this. Thanks.
Adios, tommy.
unsurrea...@yahoo.com
The_Insanely_Freakin_Simply...@HotMail.Com
wrote:
> HOWEDY thepopster,
>
> "thepopster" <s.wet...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:1153942046....@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > I have a Chesepeake Bay Retriever pup about 8 months old.
>
> A DOG Is A Dog;
> As A KAT Is A KAT;
> As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
> As A HORSE Is A HORSE;
> As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
> As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES;
> As A Mass Murderer Is A Mass Murderer.
>
> ALL Critters Only Respond In
> PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
> INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
> To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
> Which We Create For Them.
>
> You GET The Critter You TRAINED
It's a shame that you treat children and your spouse as a "critter"
with a small brain - no wonder your wife hates you like poison.
It's too bad that your opinion doesn't count in your own so-called
"forums," liar. I wonder why it is that nearly everyone has you
killfiled in "your own forum," can't you stop that since it's your own
forum? Dumb piece of shit...
Oh - I clipped your crosspostings, but you don't have to thank me. You
are welcome for that oversight of yours, moron.
Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Foren...@hotmail.com
miserableoldcrab (MOCrab) aka HAIRY STINKY CA CA BUTT
IMBECILE aka big hairy bean bag aka mike dufort you mentally
ill viciHOWES lyin dog child and SP-HOWES abusing coward <{): ~ ) >
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "CourteHOWES Canine."
"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?
When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first time,
spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth and walk
away. The dog won't be too thrilled with this but just
ignore him and continue your normal behavior."
--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"CourteHOWES Canines"
<unsurrea...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1153956553.1...@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> The_Insanely_Freakin_Simply...@HotMail.Com
> wrote:
>> HOWEDY thepopster,
>>
>> "thepopster" <s.wet...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:1153942046....@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > I have a Chesepeake Bay Retriever pup about 8 months old.
>>
>> A DOG Is A Dog;
>> As A KAT Is A KAT;
>> As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
>> As A HORSE Is A HORSE;
>> As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
>> As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES;
>> As A Mass Murderer Is A Mass Murderer.
>>
>> ALL Critters Only Respond In
>> PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
>> INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
>> To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
>> Which We Create For Them.
>>
>> You GET The Critter You TRAINED
>
> It's a shame that you treat children and your spouse as a "critter"
INDEEDY. Makes all the dogs jealHOWES.
> with a small brain -
You think dogs got small brains, mikey? HOWE COME
then it's YOU who gotta jerk choke bribe crate shock
and mutilate them to train them, mikey?
Your SP-HOWES an kid must make you feel like a real CHUMP, eh mikey?
> no wonder your wife hates you like poison.
She's jealHOWES of the dogs.
NHOWE they ALL hate me, mikey. But they do ANYTHING I ASK.
> It's too bad that your opinion doesn't count
> in your own so-called "forums,"
Here's you HEELPIN folks, mikey:
HOWEDY pat,
Unsurreality wrote:
> <Snip HoweTard crossposting>
> > HOWEDY Janet,
> > Janet Puistonen wrote:
> > > Ronna wrote:
>
> > ronna is a professional dog trainer who believes
> > if you use a pronged spiked pinch choke collar
> > pupperly you can FORCE and INTIMDATE a dog withHOWET
> > bein a dog abuser.
>
> If you know how to use a prong collar,
The Caes SEZ you can do THAT with your fingers.
> a few harmless tugs
HOWE'D you like it if some big dumb stupid ignorant
egomaniacle coward was to get INSULTED havin your mug
in front of him and gave you a few HARMLESS chokes,
which BYE THE BYE just DO happen to be The Amazing
Puppy Wizard's PREFERENCE for dealing with unruly
dangerous folks. But to do so to a DOG would be the
hallmark of a DOG ABUSING COWARD.
Alpha trainers are bye an large COWARDS. HOWEver,
that's not THEIR FAULT, nor do the necessarily KNOW
they're dog abusers, as they was CAREFULLY GROOMED
by wm. koehler the SADIST coward dog abusing egomaniac
who built their FHOWEndation using early (pre 1960's )
misunderstood wild wolf studies which did not notice
the FLEXIBILITY of the wolf pack and presumed actions
were attributed to "status" and "rank". Last week on
N.G.T.V. was a wolf study where the yearling pups
MURDERED their ALPHA parents and THAT could AND DOES
happen as in the case of Robert Crim's DEAD DOG Fritz.
HOWEver, STATUS and RANK got NUTHIN to do with this
as ALL aggression is FEAR, not ALPHALPHA. TRUE ALPHA'S,
like TRUE martial artists DO NOT NEED to indugle in
VIOLENCE as THAT the the hallmark of LEADERSHIP, pat.
> would only be required.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard PREFERS the WON handed
CHOKE HOLD because when RELEASED the recipient
NEVER EVER EVER wants to DO IT AGAIN. HOWEver,
the recipient is NOT FIXIN to stick around like
YOUR DOG.
wm. koehler SEZ when you gotta HANG a alpha dog
for TURNING ON YOU for CHOKIN IT that you GOTTA
keep IT suspended off the ground TILL HIS EYES
ROLL BACK and his TONGUE TURNS BLUE and falls
out the side of his mouth or HE'LL DO IT AGAIN.
Well, ANY self respecting ANYTHING is gonna DO
IT AGAIN if you CHOKE IT AGAIN. OR, he'd GET
YOU WHILE YOU'RE ASLEEP. Or the next time you
GIVE IT A COMMAND because dogs ATTACK ONLY when
they're AFRAID and JERKING and CHOKING them on
ANY kind of ANY THING MAKES THEM AFRAID.
> But since you have no idea how to use one,
You mean when The Amazing Puppy Wizard WANTS
to JERK and CHOKE HIS BEAST FRIEND? Hey pat?
Know whoat? Know HOWE COME dogs DON'T PROTECT
their Masters and their HOWESES??? WHEN THEY
THEY DON'T WANT TO. Like when you're gettin
stuck up and your dog LAUGHS AT YOU.
> you'll never know...
BET YOUR LIFE ON IT, pat. "Never make a SUCKER'S
BET," The Puppy Wizard's DADDY SEZ, pat. The
Amazing Puppy Wizard started out forty sumpthin
years ago doin the same same as you did pat, and
LEARNED that hurting and intimidating dogs that
outweigh you by 50-75 pounds could GET YOU DEAD.
You seen Sigfried & Roy, pat? Well, that trainer
was BEIN NICE. He was BRIBING the kitty kat and
when the kitty SEZ "GIVE IT UP" he RESISTED, not
wanting to be a Beta or Omega or WHATEVER that
idiot jargon is and THEN he TOLD IT NO! and BOPPED
IT three times on his snHOWET and THAT'S when the
KAT dragged him offstage FOR BREAKFAST.
THAT'S your ALPHA trainin, pat.
> > > >>> I don't have any experience with a dog that's had
> > > >>> this kind of non-upbringing,
>
> > A dog is a dog.
>
> 100% incorrect.
It's TRUE, pat. The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY successful FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students
have CURED EVERY behavior problem in creation NEARLY
INSTANTLY and DOCUMENTED their case histories RIGHT
HERE on The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual Forms And School Of HARD KNOCKS
and HUMAN BEHAVIOR And Animal Behavior Forensic Sciences
Research Laboratory Archives on Google.
> Just as your spouse is a spouse and a
> child is a child is equally bullshit
> and so wrong.
At what age must you stop physically
punishing a child, pat?
> Are you getting used to being wrong yet?
Yes. The Amazing Puppy Wizard WAS WRONG, pat.
But NHOWE HE GOT A DIAGNOSIS. There's a PATHOLOGY
goin on here pat, and you're a very ill person.
As any therapist is OBLIGATED to do, The Amazing
Puppy Wizard CANNOT ETHICKALLY MOCK and RIDICULE
you as HE had pryor. So, in all sincerity, The
Amazing Puppy Wizard HUMBLY APOLOGIZES to you and
ALL those whom HE has OFFENDED by QUOTING YOUR ONW
WORDS, which of curse, they DENY, as THAT IS a
SYMPTOM of The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME, pat.
> > ALL behavior and temperament problems
> > are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING,
INDEED.
> 100% incorrect.
Wrong again, pat. KNHOWE KNOWING the STATUS
of the Mutually Mentally Ill Appreciation
Self Heelp Group, The Amazing Puppy Wizard
will simply TRAIN them as ANY OTHER FEARFUL
NEEDY PATHETIC CRITTER HE'S had the PLEASURE
of REHABILITATING in the past, simply by doin
THE SAME SAME SAME SAME as taught in your own
FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual.
> > not BAD DOGS or lack of SOCIALIZATION.
True. It's THE SAME REPRESSION you was
raised under that manifests on your dogs
and children. That's NOT BAD. That demonstrate
CONSISTENCY. Consistency is ADORED in the
SCIENTIFIC METHOD, pat. There's a CURE comin
for you pat, ain't you PRHOWED NHOWE?
> > As LeeCharlesKelley taught us, socialization
> > is DONE by the time the dog leaves the litterbox.
>
> > > >>> and I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions,
>
> > You're asking liars dog abusers cowards and active acute
> > long term incurable MENTAL CASES for advice
>
> But isn't that better than asking someone
> like YOU who has been proven an actual mental
> case and complete moron?
Psst? HOWE does it make you FEEL when you
gotta JERK and CHOKE your dog in front of
decent people, pat? Makes you SPHOWET KOEHLER,
no DHOWET, eh pat???
> Do you REALLY expect most people to look
> at you as some kind of dog training authority
NOPE. The Amazing Puppy Wizard GOT NUTHIN TO DO
WITH IT pat. The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students
who REPORT their own 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL RESULTS RIGHT HERE are all
that you gotta KNOW.
> when you lie out of your ass every chance you get?
The Amazing Puppy Wizard cannot indulge
in such foolishness, pat. If you've got
someting to PROVE then QUOTE IT please.
> You have to be kidding, HoweTard!
Dogs and PEOPLE DIE from being jerked and
choked, pat. THAT's whoat MURDERED Diane
Whipple, not the Knoller and Noell's, they
like yourself, was ONLY TAUGHT to mishandle
their dogs by THE BEST in the business, their
local SHELTER TRAINING CLASS, pat.
> You are amazingly dumb -
The Amazing Puppy Wizard has practically NO
ability with ANY THING other than temperament
and behavior and STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE
DIS-EASE aka The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME, pat.
> I think that sums it up nicely.
LikeWIZE <{@);~ ) >
> Pat
=================
You had ENOUGH yet, pat?
> liar.
Your own words, mikey.
LIKE THIS:
You wrote:
> Try this free book - it has helped me so much:
> Courteous Canines
> http://home.adelphia.net/~nuxodom
Here's a couple EXXXCERPTS:
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth, author:
"CourteHOWES Canine."
"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?
When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first time,
spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth and walk
away. The dog won't be too thrilled with this but just
ignore him and continue your normal behavior."
--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"CourteHOWES Canines"
> It's SO much better than The Amazing Puppy Wizard's Garbage manual.
HOWE COME you don't tell folks it's YOUR OWN "BOOK" you're advertising?
HOWE COME do you suppHOWES The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely
Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard don't
WARN folks not to CRINGE when they HURT and INTIMIDATE their dogs like
HOWE you do mikey?
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!
> I wonder why it is that nearly everyone has you killfiled in
> "your own forum,"
So, it's just you an me, eh mikey aka pat aka unsurreality
aka black vomitHOWES aka trollbasher <{}; ~ ) >
Perhaps then, you won't mind TALKIN BUSINESS?
Let's talk abHOWET jerkin chokin shockin bribin cratin
surgically sexually mutilatin an murderin innocent defenseless
dumb critters an callin THAT, trainin, eh mikey?
> can't you stop that since it's your own forum?
WELCOME to The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
> Dumb piece of shit...
You're settin quite the EXXXAMPLE for that kid of yours, eh mikey.
DON'T let the puppy play with the TOY YOU RECOMMENDED:
unsurreality_2...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Quick advice:
"I'd tell you the actual name of the product but one large canine has
scratched it off. It's about 6 inches wide all around and red in
color (and looks like a big die). Check out your local pet store for
one - if it works with your dog, you'll love the antics he performs
to get the food (and you'll love the attention he devotes to the
toy); if he doesn't like it, get another one and use them for craps
(the dice game...not what comes out of your dog).
(Update - read this for a word of caution on this toy). Mike"
Even the TOY you "recommended" which you COULDN'T RECOMMEND
on accHOWENT of you don't know the name is dangerHOWES.
BWEEEAHAHAA!!!
Hey mikey? HOWE abHOWET the folks who ALREADY GOT THEIR
DOG DEAD thanks to your NAMELESS TOY, eh mikey???
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!
Let's NOT talk abHOWET your "trainin" advice, mikey on accHOWENT
of EVEN YOUR "TOY" advice is dangerHOWES, mikey <{) : ~ ) >
HOWE COME The Simply Amazing Pussy Wizard ain't geniHOWES
enough to WARN folks that HIS methods will HURT and INTIMIDATE
their dogs and they should just TRY TO ACT NORMAL after HURTIN
an INTIMIDATIN their dog, michael?
"(Update - read this for a word of caution on this toy). Mike"
And the link is DEAD mikey... just like The Simply Amazing
Puppy Wizard's puppy, thanks to you, mikey. Hey mikey?
HOWE COME you won't let your kid read The Simply Amazing
Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Forums, mikey? Are you EMBARRASSED? ASHAMED? Yeah,
that's probably on accHOWENT of HIS SPELLIN, eh mikey???
BWEEEEAAAAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!
You make The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard
feel like a schoolard bully pickin on the little girls.
SEE?
> Oh - I clipped your crosspostings, but you don't have to thank me.
On accHOWENT of you're EMBARRASSED.
> You are welcome for that oversight of yours, moron.
Here's a REPLY from WON of The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin
Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And
Horsey Wizards' 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog, Child, Kat And Horse
Training Method Manual Students <{); ~ ) >
Hello MOCrab.
Well, I'd take your advice and go thru the killfile as you have
recommended below, but Jerry's system Is WORKING wonders
with these two puppies in a matter of days. He may be abusive
and short-tempered with some people out there because, quite
frankly, I think he cares more about the dogs that the owner's
feelings and feels so strongly about it, it's aggravating to have
"experts" discount his methods.
My husband just got back from taking these 15 week old pups
for a walk, who now respond remarkably well to the "Zena-Zoey-
sit-good-girl!" phrase now when only said once no matter where
they are.
They also respond to the come here command. We trained them
(granted, out of order of the instructions) with the pennies in the
cans only two days ago to come to us when called.
I've since backtracked to do the exercises in the proper order.
They are calm and well-behaved and impress the Hell out of
anyone who sees them. "You're kidding, they're only 14 weeks
old and they are THAT well behaved?"
Yessiree Bob, they are, and we've only had them for 12
days and have been training them (correctly for 3 days.
We still have more training exercises to do, but why fix something
if it's not broken??>?? These dogs are happy, we don't have to yell
at or scold them, they are learning to be secure and to pay attention
to us for approval and not out of fear.
I can only assume some might be threatened by this manual's methods
because it goes against all human logic on how to train a dog. It
certainly didn't make any sense to me, but I thought what the heck,
try it (even tho I still have to remind myself what to do because
my previous limited experiences with dog training were SO DIFFERENT
to the point that I almost felt like I needed to take my brain out
of my head and put it back in backwards!!!.....).....
BUT THE SYSTEM WORKS!!!
How in the world could someone just "make
something up" and it WORK?>??>?
My husband was very doubtful about this method when I told him
I wanted to try this. His dad was a vet, and certainly didn't use
these methods with the parade of dogs they had as kids. But now
even HE has to admit we're doing something right here, as our
stress and frustration levels have lowered and EVERYONE is much
happier around here, especially the dogs!
I really don't think people are used to the notion that you can train a
dog and it NOT be stressful or difficult. It's easy IF you do it just
like the manual says. It might be easier for some to NOT do it now and
go with the concept of control rather than respect and understanding,
because that's the way WE are used to thinking and heaven forbid WE
change OUR way of thinking and admit we've done some counterproductive
things in the past, right?
The results I'm seeing here with these puppies speaks volumes and
discounts what anyone tells me otherwise. This Wit's End manual
is now in a binder and we're sticking with it.
BlueMoon
----------------------
Subject : The Wits end dog training method - THANK YOU!
Dear Jerry
I have just got to thank you so very much.
I had a gutful of the sadistic crap that gets dished out as
"dog training", I read a bunch of books that just seemed wrong
and then I started trawling the web and found it was worse -
bulletin boards full of people, advocates of pin-down techniques
and shock collars.
I just couldn't believe it. Some of the methods the so called
"professionals" were championing turned my stomach and in the
absence of a voice of reason many people seemed to be taking
the advice. Was this the only way to ever train my dog?
Many of the methods thankfully I never had the stomach to
even try, it all just seemed like constantly pushing against
a resisting force.
Then I stumbled across a post from the puppy wizard - it
was honestly like an epiphany for me. In an instant the
bullshit facade that holds together these peoples brand
of "logic" just crumble away, suddenly I saw very clearly
indeed.
I then read many of your posts and eventually
after some searching found the manual.
I read it and felt like a weight had been lifted.
Now me and my furry best friend have found our
path, one that we both seem very happy with.
We are both very much in debt to your kindness
and compassionate wisdom.
I think it was Gandhi who said that "you can be in a minority
of one, but the truth is still the truth". These words seemed
so appropriate after finding your methods in a sea of countless
posts promoting repetitively violent and abusive training.
On top of that I felt a little of the pioneering spirit of the
internet, like someone had reached out across a great distance,
put a hand on my shoulder and said.."it's cool, just love your
dog, listen to him ".
Thank You, over and over Thank You! You have given me and a
young and very enthusiastic Border Collie a way to a much better
life together.
Long live the Puppy Wizard!
Cornwall UK
PS - Keep up the good work, keep telling it HOWE it really is.
--------------------------
Here's The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing
Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Student Lauren EXXXPLAINING
her take on The 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method:
Lauren wrote:
Everything Jerry does is positive reinforcement. In fact, a
lot of it is completely counter-intuitive (eg, praise the dog
even when he's doing the WRONG thing)... but for some bizarre
reason, it works.... His methods *don't* quite match up with
what Cesar does... but... I figure, if you're willing to give
it a try, the *worst* that could happen would be the dog gets
a lot of extra praise and there's no effect whatsoever :-).
The way Jerry's training works, *any* problem is sorted out
after four iterations of extinguishing the behaviour. He says
*anybody* can do it, *every* time, because if a method doesn't
work 100% of the time, for everybody, it's not a good method.
Here's *my* quick summary of it all....
Basically, Jerry's method is based on a foundation of:
a) Focusing the dog's attention on you (the Hot and Cold exercise)
b) Establishing yourself as pack leader (the Family Pack Leadership
exercise) - Note that he does this by dominating *mentally*, never
by dominating *physically* (no alph rolls, no leash corrections)
c) Praising EVERYTHING the dog does - desired or undesired !!!
This is the weird part !! because you are praising the dog
for *thinking* and *deciding* (even if he decided something
you didn't want him to do). This part is so counter-intuitive,
that a lot of people just won't even try this method of training,
because they "know" it couldn't possibly work.
You *never* show the dog displeasure, raise your tone, emphasize
a word strongly, sigh in disgust, *nothing* negative (a hard
habit for a human being to break), EVER. Everything is completely
calm and matter of fact.
All the dog ever hears is what a good dog he is, and you're
*telling* him what a great dog he is, even when he's doing
the behaviour you DON'T want him to do (!). As I said, this
makes so little sense to human beings that a lot of people
won't even *try* this method of training a dog.
d) You *never* put *any* pressure on, or pull on, the dog's
collar. the lead is *always* kept loose. NO corrections are
done by pulling on the collar (a hard habit for a human being
to break).
e) Every behaviour can be created, or extinguished, with only
four repetitions of the training session (another wildly counter-
intuitive concept).
f) Interrupting and eliminating bad behaviours from the dog's
repertoire is done by using sound distractions to condition
the dog *not* to do certain things (or, rather TO do certain
OTHER things)....
Part (f), the sound distraction part, always consists of an
unvarying sequence of saying the exact same thing, four times
in a row (the only new thing being the insertion of the command
keyword <sit, down, come, whatever>) into the sequence, and with
no tonal emphasis on the words at all... and you say all four
sequences in a row, as if they were one long monotone word...
Two of the verbal iterations are accompanied by a sound <pennies
rattling in a can> and two aren't. It's the timing of the sound
to come at the same time as the keyword, that is critical...
Iteration 1: Doggy-<keyword>-good-boy. (and he may have NO clue
what "<keyword>" means)... immediately followed by: Iteration 2:
Doggy-<keyword> <shake can with pennies on the word "<keyword>"> -
good-boy.... immediately followed by: Iteration 3: Doggy-<keyword>-
good-boy.... immediately followed by:Iteration 4: <toss can with
pennies so that *just* as you say the <keyword>, the can hits the
ground, somewhere on the far side of the dog>: Doggy-<keyword> <can
lands as you say the word "<keyword>"> - good-boy.
So, it's really: Take a deep reath: Doggy-keyword-good-boy-
Doggy-[keyword/NEARBY-SOUND]-good-boy-Doggy-keyword-good-boy-
Doggyy-[keyword/FAR-SOUND]-good-boy,
The important part is that the sound has to come from two different
locations, and it has to occur precisely when the keyword is said.
I, personally, have the most trouble with timing the toss
so that the far-away can lands precisely on the keyword.
Jerry explains how to communicate to the dog what "<keyword>"
means, with your own actions. Initially, the behaviours are
based on the dog's motion (coming, going), and the foundation
that was established in the first two exercises, and then he
focuses on extinguishing undesirable behaviours (barking,
jumping, aggression, slamming against fences, bolting through
doors). Establishing desired behaviours like "sit" and "heel"
takes up a lot of the third file.
I'm warning you right up front that Jerry's method seems
COMPLETELY counter-intuitive. Not just counter-intuitive,
it seems completely stupid, impossible, unlikely, ridiculous,
and even *uncomfortable* (for you, the human being) to do.
You reward the dog when he hasn't seemed to do *anything* yet.
(boy, do you feel stupid! "This can't work!" ... but it does.)
You reward the dog when he's very pointedly doing something you
DON'T want.... (keep that smile on your face, in your tone, and
in your body language! very difficult! "Why am I rewarding him
when he's disobeying or being bad?" Jerry explains why !! )
It's the weirdest thing in the world, and yet it seems to work anyway.
I know you don't have tons of time, and it is, of course better
to read the original author's version than a summary! But, here's
a quick summary of the exercises I'm hoping you'll think are worth
trying...
The "Hot and Cold" exercise:
- Done in four different sessions on the first day.
- Takes about 2-3 minutes. You praise the dog every time he
comes towards you, or even looks at you, even out of the corner
of his eyes. Very shortly, he's hovering close to you and keeping
at least one eye on you. Now he's paying attention.
The "Pack Family Leadership" exericise:
- Done in four different sessions on the first day. The first
session takes about 15 minutes the first time, the second session
that day takes about 12 minutes, 8 minutes for the third session,
6 minutes for the fourth session. You do it in a 60' x 60' foot
square (you'll be using a 20' x 20' section, the rest is for the
dog's 20 foot leash to play out, if he wants to roam).
Ideally each of the four sessions is done in four different physical
locations. Do this weekly for the first month, then monthly as a
"tune up" thereafter. What you do is, preferably the entire family
(although it can be done by just one person) marches very slowly
(one step per second) around the square, stopping at the corners,
talking only to each other, never pulling the dog along with them,
never looking at the dog. If he comes, or looks at the group, he
gets praised. If he looks away, or walks away, he hears nothing.
That's it!
Pretty soon, he's hovering around his "pack", seeking attention.
Now you have the foundation to build on.
You build on the "Pack Family Leadership" exercise, to get a come/
recall, by adding in the four iterations plus sound distractions,
as per Jerry's instructions.
After that, any undesired behaviour is interrupted with brief
variably alternating sound distractions INSTANTLY followed by
prolonged NON PHYSICAL praise (if it takes as many as four),
and praise in advance as per his instructions, and any new
desired behaviour is taught using the four iterations plus
sound distractions, as per Jerry's instructions.
He specifically addresses dogs who bark too much/fling themselves
at windows/throw themselves at the door/etc. and bolting out the
front door, dogs who throw themselves against fences, people-
aggressive dogs, etc., and more.
Well, hope that didn't drown you with information....
Anyway, I hope you get a chance to read through it, and are
willing to give it a try. It takes less time than correcting
the dog over and over for the rest of his life, and it's more
fun all the way around for everybody.
Thanks,
-Lauren
-------
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing
GRAND
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard <{}; ~ ) >
Janet B
clicked their heels and said:
>I'm going to respectfully repeat my preference for using the crate in the
>house. (re: obedience alone): Attempting it, IMO, is more
>likely to weaken the owner's credibility than anything else. Better to
>crate the dog and prevent further development of the obsession while
>he/she learns to train it.
You're right Amy.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
unsurrea...@yahoo.com
Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Foren...@HotMail.Com
wrote:
> HOWEDY unsurreality aka pat aka BLACK VOMITHOWES aka
> miserableoldcrab (MOCrab) aka HAIRY STINKY CA CA BUTT
> IMBECILE aka big hairy bean bag aka mike dufort you mentally
> ill viciHOWES lyin dog child and SP-HOWES abusing coward <{): ~ ) >
Wouldn't it be nice just for ONCE if you said something correct? Just
once? I'm not black vomit or miserableoldcrab or hairy stinky whatever
or big hairy whatever you fucking moron! FUCK you are so stupid it's
ridiculous!
I mean, you don't know jack shit about dogs, dog training, or anything
really, so at LEAST get the names correct! That would be ONE thing you
could POSSIBLY be correct on.
But I highly doubt you'll ever get even that right...
<delete crap>
Judith Althouse
I am no expert on Chesapeake's but I did own one for 10 years. I
rescued her from an animal shelter. She was a year old and her and her
litter mate were at the shelter. I consider myelf an experienced
trainer in obedience, but that was the one and only dog I could not
control. She was not aggressive, but she chewed up everything she could
get her teeth on. She ate the dashboard in my car (foam rubber). I
suggest you take the advice of the people that have posted here who are
knowledgeable about the breed and run don't walk to get a professional
trainer. I always dismissed her behavior as some genetic bizarre
malfunction but have later learned that it is certainly not a breed for
a novice and I certainly was. I loved her none the less. I wish you
the very best of luck.
Be Free,
Judy
Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Foren...@hotmail.com
child abusin active acute chronic long term incurable
mental case,
"Judith Althouse" <judyal...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:1757-44C9...@storefull-3252.bay.webtv.net...
> Hi,
> I am no expert on Chesapeake's
That's on accHOWENT of :
A DOG Is A Dog;
As A KAT Is A KAT;
As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
As A HORSE Is A HORSE;
As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES;
As A Mass Murderer Is A Mass Murderer.
ALL Critters Only Respond In
PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them.
You GET The Critter You TRAINED
In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
SAME SAME SAME SAME,
For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.
Damn The Descartean War of "Nature Vs Nurture."
We Teach By HOWER Words And Actions
And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.
ALL Temperament And Behavior Problems Are CAUSED BY
MISHANDLING
> but I did own one for 10 years.
Then you should know:
The Methods, Principles And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change,
Or They'd Not Be Scientific
And Could Not Obtain
Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Safe Effective Results
For All Handler's And All Critters
And ALL Behaviors
ALL OVER THE WHOWEL WILD WORLD,
NEARLY INSTANTLY,
As Taught In Your FREE Copy Of The Simply Amazing
Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual <{): ~ ) >
> I rescued her from an animal shelter.
Did you, NHOWE?
> She was a year old and her and her litter mate were at the shelter.
But you only took WON.
> I consider myelf an experienced trainer in obedience,
That so? DO TELL?
> but that was the one and only dog I could not control.
You mean you couldn't jerk an choke IT enough to
RESPECT your G-D Like AUTHORITY, eh judith?
> She was not aggressive, but she chewed up everything
> she could get her teeth on.
Destructive chewin is a anXXXIHOWESNESS relief mechanism.
You can CURE IT NEARLY INSTANTLY, judith:
lp.
God bless you...
Anthony & Linda Testa
Jacksonville, Florida
------------
Surrogate Toy Separation Anxiety / Bedtime
Calming / Submissive Urination Technique
Date: 2001-11-14 09:13:21 PST
"Yves Dussault" <ydussa...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> Hi!
> I have downloaded Wit's End Dog Training Method...
> In there there is that trick with a toy about "Separation
> anxiety surrogate toy technique."
> Anybody has tried that... I would like to give it a try with
> my GSP (German shorthair.....pointer)
> Comments? Yves Dussault
Yves,
I for one have tried it... in fact I use this all the time. I
just used it last evening while my husband and I went
out to see "The Mummy Returns" (a horrible turkey of
a movie, but at least the house wasn't chewed from
end to end in the meantime).
Yes, it really works. :-) So do the other distraction/praise
techniques described therein.
If you are interested in the manual, you will probably want to
begin the exercises as well.
Regards,
Lisa
-------------
Dave Cohen <coh...@total.net writes:
Re: Barking Deterrants Needed...
Hi. Please understand that I do not know Jerry and have
spoken with him briefly once by email.
I have no stake or interest in the success of his
business. I simply want to thank him publicly for one
of his tips, with regards to separation anxiety.
I thought it seemed far fetched to praise a stuffed
animal and then say good bye to my own dog, but
I am usually a very open minded person, so I tried it.
Well, lo and behold- the damn trick worked!
I think Jerry has some intriguing techniques, and
personally I think everyone who constantly criticizes
him is not understanding his logic.
Thank you Jerry!
----------
> She ate the dashboard in my car (foam rubber).
That's commendable, eh judith?
> I suggest you take the advice of the people that have posted here
You mean the miserable stinkin lyin dog murderin mental cases, judith.
> who are knowledgeable about the breed
That'd be tommy sorenson aka gentleman jack morrison
the anonymHOWES lyin dog murderin coward and lying
frosty dahl, EHTICKAL puppymillers and professional
dog trainin FRAUDS and SCAM ARTISTS <{): ~ ( >
> and run don't walk to get a professional trainer.
Like them, judith?:
tommy sez:
"At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a
dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin does
*not* constitute a "beating.""
And then he sez:
"I don't know how big you are, kiddo, so this may
not be as easy for you as it is for me, but use
a little "knee action," that is, as the dog goes
charging by you, just give the dog a little bop
with your knee and shin. Yep, really lean into it.
Even knock her over, if you can, but make sure to
make her think twice about rushing past you again -
- which is exactly what you want her to do.
Don't bother with scolding her, she'll get the message.
If it happens again, just REPEAT the knee action.
When she steps on your toes, just pick up your foot
abruptly and nudge her with your knee. Again, no
scolding is necessary here, so you don't have to
worry about her "over-reacting."
I don't think this is necessarily a lack of respect
for you, just a lack of training. That is, she just
needs *more* of it."
THEN he SEZ:
"My objective is always to find a way that WORKS.
And if it is DANGEROUS behavior that I'm trying
to modify, behavior than can get the dog KILLED,
I will resort to ANYTHING to save him.
A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G.
Okay. Call me a cruel, inhumane, abusive bastard
if you want to, but it doesn't affect me at all.
When you've saved the lives of as many dogs as I
have, you'll learn that that's the only thing that
really matters. Saving lives and making dogs become
good citizens"
HOWE abHOWET all them DEAD DOGS you TRAINED
TO DEATH RIGHT HERE that your TERRORIZM DIDN'T
SAVE, tommy?
Date: 1999/01/20
-------------------------
=====================
Robert Crim writes:
>Terri
===========
------------------
Here's lying frosty dahl BEATING A DOG to TRAIN IT:
Borrowed from: "Puppy Raising Tips" from
professional trainers, John and Amy Dahl.
"Around four months many puppies can withstand a
correction. Unfortunately this is the time they start
teething and if their mouth hurts, they may act
generally sensitive. If this is the case, be patient and
wait for all those baby teeth to fall out.
In training, retrievers often respond to physical correction
better than verbal correction. While "NO!" is extremely
useful if puppy is about to bite an electrical cord or steal
food off the table, when you are teaching them something
(like obedience) a sharp jerk on their lead or swat with a
stick gets the message across with less emotion and less
effect on their confidence.
If they drop the dummy and act like their mouth hurts
when they are teething, stop all retrieving and wait for
their mouth to feel better. A correction should be just
severe enough to get the dog to respond.
Repeated weak corrections are very stressful to the dog."
=====================
Amy Dahl writes:
"From where I sit, there is a difference. I haven't noticed
any of the contingent who like Koehler trying to force
their method on everyone, or calling others names because
they do not use the method.
I personally believe the Koehler method is a more
humane way of teaching than any alternative I have
studied.
And I am not averse to learning--I have studied a I
have studied a number of methods.
Koehler, of course, stops far short of the specialized
work I do with retrievers, and some of the things in his
book, such as making the dog walk behind the handler
on the "finish," are inappropriate for retriever work.
Why do I think Koehler's method is more humane than others?
First, I don't believe "corrections vs. no corrections" is as
significant to dogs as it is to people. Applied correctly,
Koehler's method uses *no* intimidation, fear, or emotional
manipulation. It is clear and definite, and the handler's
actions are always predictable. The method is masterfully
designed to prevent confrontation or vying for control in
any way. It places high demands of responsibility on the
trainer, and takes a great deal of commitment to do correctly,
so it is not for the casual "dabbler." When done well,very
few corrections are needed.
In brief, I think the clarity, predictability, and absence
of emotional blackmail weigh more strongly in the method's
favor, than the occasional brief unpleasantness of correction
weighs against it." lying frosty dahl.
-------------------
"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog I Do Not Believe There
Is A Single Circumstance Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is Anything
But Destructive," "I don't see why anyone would want to choke or
beat a dog, or how any trainer could possibly get a good working dog
by making them unhapper, fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying frosty
dahl.
"None of my posts, prior to or subsequent to
Jerry Howe's attacks, encourage anyone to
twist ears, beat dogs, confront, intimidate,
frighten, or any of the crap he constantly
attributes to me," lying frosty dahl.
BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!
"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.
Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies
HURT all their lives like HOWE HOWER dog
lovers PREFER to HURT THEIR DOGS?
"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."
The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies
to SAVE THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE.
We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL otherWIZE
she wouldn't LIE abHOWET it:
lying frosty dahl, oakhill kennels wrote:
Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper wield
the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them
more sharply
Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and
the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist!
Eventually, the dog will give in
but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their
efforts to escaping the ear pinch
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell
instead of your thumb even get a studded collar
and pinch the ear against that
Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so
urgent that resisting your will fades in importance.
CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever Ready
Right Hand, As it catches on, try using the stick
and no ear pinch.
When the dog is digging out to beat the stick
and seems totally reliable without any ear pinch,
you are finished
If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin,
say "No! Hold!"
(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps because
the ear is getting tender, or the dog has decided
it isn't worth it)" lying frosty dahl.
"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
professora gingold.
terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure."
> I always dismissed her behavior as some genetic bizarre malfunction
THAT'S INSANE:
> but have later learned that it is certainly not a breed for a novice
And you learned THAT from EXXXPERIENCED professionals
like tommy and lyin frosty and her DH "STICK MAN JOHN" dahl?
> and I certainly was.
BEWEEEAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
> I loved her none the less.
You're a freakin imbecile, judith.
> I wish you the very best of luck.
DOG TRAININ AIN'T LUCK you dog abusin mental case.
> Be Free,
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1 From: Judith Althouse - view profile
Date: Thurs, Jul 6 2006 8:18 pm
Email: judyaltho...@webtv.net (Judith Althouse)
Groups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
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Hi everyone,
I read thru all of the posts just knowing that someone else had
already addressed my problems but if so I overlooked it.
I have had 2 of my dogs since they were a year old. They are now 13
and 14. The older one a spayed female Border Collie mix. The 13 year
old a Black Lab, 15 months ago I introduced a year old Pit Bul/Lab mix
to the pack.
He is a neutered male approx 2 years old now....Everything has been
rolling right along.
Several months ago another Pit Bull
joined the family although he has remained outside. He is not neutered
yet and though
he is very mellow I just feel like I am pushing
my luck to introduce him to the household.
He is not housebroken and most likely
has spent his life on a chain.
Ok here is the problem...Jubal Early the Pit Bull/Lab mix recently
attacked Buck (my old
Lab) 3 times in one day. It was not the most
vicious attacks I have ever seen but could have easily escalated.
Buck came out of it with a scrape on his ear. Buck just laid around
for a day. I am not sure if it was because he was sore or because he
was
broken. Of course I have kept Jubal Early seperated or on a leash
since then.
Buck is definitely afraid of Jubal, the sound of him makes Buck
anxious.
Prior to this incident Jubal E steered clear of Buck if a toy would
roll over to Buck he would grab the toy and run for his life, even jump
over the couch at times to avoid passing Buck in a close hall way.
I must admit to having made some mistakes with Jubal E. He is young
and active and he is fun to play with plus I did not have complete
control
of his handling.
Suffice it to say Jubal was allowed to run the show.
He became the Pack Leader over humans and dogs alike.
My theory is that Jubal has just taken over as the Alpha Dog. The
part I do NOT understand is why Jubal Early is still on the attack
since Buck is not offering any opposition.
I can't say he is submissive.
He doesn't get a chance to be.
Terrified would be more like it....
I have gone over the incidents a million times and for the life of me I
cannot put my finger on anything in particular triggering the
incident...
There was a time when Lady (my oldest dog was the Alpha dog and
controlled Buck) until a few years ago and she gracefully took a back
seat to him.
Somebody, please help?
Do you think things will ever settle down here?
All of my dogs are rescued dogs that just came to me.
As much as I love the 2 new additions. I will not see my poor old Dog
Buck be terrified and hurt by anyone.
You can imagine what it is like, constantly shuffling dogs and
fearing disaster. This has
all hapened a couple of days ago and I am exhausted.
I am sorry to be so wordy, but I was trying to give you the straight
scoop so hopefully someone could offer some advice. I have always had
dogs. I have owned a show dog, obedience dogs, (Dobermans) so I am not
a novice to the dog world.
Somebody please HELP us...
Thanks for reading this.....
Be Free,
Judy
================
> Judy
Subject: The Dog Whisperer
HOWEDY Judith,
Judith Althouse wrote:
> Thumbs up or Thumbs down???
the ces is a dog abusin punk thug coward, a Nazi / Fascist.
> I love him.
DECENT PEOPLE DO NOT POST HERE abHOWETS, Judith.
> He is my idol, my hero, my guru.
He's a dog abuser, a punk and a coward.
> i want to be him when I grow up :)
Well then, you're too stupid to live so long.
> so, whadda ya say do ya like him or not?
Your own dogs' behavior problems are reflected in
your mentor's insidiHOWES methods:
> I say Thumbs UP!!!!!
Shove 'm both up your arse an walk on your elbows.
> Be Free,
That's curiHOWES, comin from a Nazi.
> Judy
The_Insanely_Freakin_Simply...@hotmail.com
an child an SP-HOWES abusing punk thug coward active acute chronic
long term incurable mental case,
unsurrea...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Foren...@HotMail.Com
> wrote:
> > HOWEDY unsurreality aka pat aka BLACK VOMITHOWES aka
> > miserableoldcrab (MOCrab) aka HAIRY STINKY CA CA BUTT
> > IMBECILE aka big hairy bean bag aka mike dufort you mentally
> > ill viciHOWES lyin dog child and SP-HOWES abusing coward <{): ~ ) >
>
> Wouldn't it be nice just for ONCE if you said something correct?
Did you forget to say 'HOWEDY', mikey? Did your parents raise
you to be a rude inconsiderate ignorameHOWES like them, mikey?
You forgot to put NINNYBOY in the subject header and failed
to trim crossposts to avoid EMBARRASSMENT, mikey.
> Just once?
Let's talk abHOWET HOWE to TRAIN the OP's dog not to do that, eh mikey?
> I'm not black vomit or miserableoldcrab or hairy stinky whatever
> or big hairy whatever you fucking moron! FUCK you are so stupid it's
> ridiculous!
You mean there's other posters as ignorameHOWES as you, mikey?
Let's talk abHOWET you jerkin chokin shockin bribin cratin
surgically sexually mutilatin an murderin innocent defenseless
dumb critters an callin THAT, trainin, eh mikey?
> I mean, you don't know jack shit about dogs, dog training, or anything
> really, so at LEAST get the names correct!
You're a lyin dog an child an SP-HOWES abusin mental case, mikey.
> That would be ONE thing you could POSSIBLY be correct on.
Let's talk abHOWET you jerkin chokin shockin bribin cratin surgically
sexually mutilatin an murderin innocent defenseless dumb critters
an callin THAT, trainin, eh mikey?
> But I highly doubt you'll ever get even that right...
Let's talk BUSINESS, eh mikey?
> <delete crap>
We was fixin to talk abHOWET jerkin chokin shockin bribin cratin
surgically sexually mutilatin an murderin innocent defenseless
dumb critters an callin THAT, trainin, REMEMBER, mikey?
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAau...@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?
> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.
> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST
Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.
Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
---------------
Sometimes my "voice of god" startles human
and dog, especially when the human didn't
see the inappropriate behaviour. --Matt.
Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day
Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.
Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's
just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14
Bioso...@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<37D698CF.405B0...@bellsouth.net>:
> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.
Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.
Why did you blow it?
--Matt
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????
Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?
I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918au...@130.133.1.4...
> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.
> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"dallygirl" <kwic...@hotmail.com> said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> choke chains are outdated and barbaric in many cases
> causing more harm than good.
Back at you with flat buckle collars. These are an
incredibly abused training tool, what with the number
of handlers I see pulling back and jerking on the leash
with both hands.
It's a good thing that most of us are here because of dogs'
well-being and not an agenda.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!
"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction" --Janet Boss
"Reliable Punishment Cycles, Different Thresholds To Pain
And Punishment, High Tolerance For Correction, Escalation
Of Correction To A Level Where The Dog Yelps When You Punish
Him, Thus Making The Experience One Which The Dog Will Want
To Avoid In The Future," grant teeboon, RAAF.
"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know Jack
Wouldn't Have Done It If He Thought Solo Couldn't
Take It. I Still Crate Him Because Otherwise I Fear
He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.
captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK" Makes A
ResoundingSound Distraction: "When You Chuck The Dog
The Sound Will Travel Up The Mandible To The Ears And
Give A Popping Sound To The Dog."
"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.
On 6 Feb 2006 17:41:08 GMT, Mary Healey <mhhea...@iastate.edu>,
clicked their heels and said:
> Does that include tone of voice? Some tools are easier
> to ban than others.
yes - screaming banshees are told to shut up! And I
always have to remind spouses that they may NOT do the
"honey - you're supposed to be doing it like THIS"......
--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album
"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.
"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.
THAT'S sumpthin to be PR-HOWED abHOWET, eh matty?
Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what would
> > be the point? Where I come from, choking is choking.
> > It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
Deltones wrote:
>
> Rocky wrote:
>
> > "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com>
>
> > > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > > is choking. It's never limited.
Not so in PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING, Deltones.
> > So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> > Thank you for your contribution.
> > --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
Looks like you've pushed the mental cases over the edge again...
> Well, I think you carefully avoided quoting the last part of my post.
> You know the one about a bunch of little Colonel Parker doing Elvis's
> out of their dogs? Oh right, limited choking is not abuse, and pumping
> dogs full of drugs to make them behave ain't either in your world huh?
> For the benefit of our gentle readers, here's the part you forgot to
> quote:
?
> Oh, what the hell. Check out a thread started around Nov 23 called
> "Help with a Nuerotic Hound..." where I wonder if you guys are talking
> about dogs or Woody Allen's pharmacy. I'll stick with praises and noise
> distraction to train my dog, thank you.
>
> ----------
"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828...@mb-m18.aol.com...
> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
> Janet Boss
>
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1...@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916...@mb-m17.aol.com...
> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.
An INSENSITIVE DOG???
> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.
lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to
it. When he barks, use the line for a correction.-
if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar," Lynn K.
"Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.
<except when it is>
"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs. It's a safety
necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
"Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.
<except when it is>
"So what? Whoever said that it's right to
always not confront? We sure can try, but
a dog who knows a command and growls when
given it is certainly being confrontational".
You can't simply walk away and pretend it
didn't happen or leave it for later work in
every situation." Lynn K.
--------------------
"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.
And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.
Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."
Lynn K.
----------------
"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.
Should I have refused to groom them?
Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."
Lynn K.
----------------
I'll be you've never had to put down litters of
beautiful labrador puppies? If you had did, maybe
you'd be singing a different tune?
"Actually, have held them for the tech to euth, and
put their bodies in the trash bag and in the freezer
for the trash company to come and dispose of.
No different tune," ~Emily
~emily is a vivisectionist for a med research laboratory.
From: "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com>
Date: 2 Dec 2005 10:55:41 -0800
Subject: Re: In defense of Jerry Howe's methods
Mary Healey wrote:
> I'm still asking for 5 original posts from people here at least 5
> years to support your initial contention (NOT HURTING DOGS TO TRAIN
THEM). You're 0 for 2, so far.
That's 2 in 2 as far as I'm concerned but hey, if you insist. I'm
really curious to see what will be the justification this time. So far
we have:
Limited choking? Hey, it's limited, As
Neo would say: Woah, there is no choke.
Dogs pumped full of prozac? Hey, they're trippin
man. Remember Woodstock. Euh.... Woodwhat?
E-Collar? I'm sure some of you will come up with: But my
dog look so pretty with an electrified perm. Swoooon.
So on with the fun. Taken from the "Collars" thread,
started by Perry Templeton June 20 2005
Denis
------------
On 26 Jun 2005 10:52:42 -0700, lucyaa...@claque.net, wrote:
> What does the "choke" in the "choke chain" stand for, then?
> Lucy
one reason I call them slip collars. Their is a correction involved,
and while it causes momentary discomfort, does not choke the dog.
OTOH, it is CAPABLE fo being used to do that, should a situation
warrant it.
--
Janet B
----------
And here's another one from the same author,
taken from the same thread.
---------
167. Janet B
Jun 21, 12:03 pm show options
On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:40:11 +0100, "Alison"
<Ali...@XYZallofus2.fsnet.co.uk>, wrote:
> I'm just wondering why you had to use choke chains to train"your
> dogs especially as they are so small.
Oh geez - let's see - how many JRTs act like alligators at the end of
a leash? I personally prefer prong collars.
----------
Let's go for the hat trick with the same author, taken from the same
thread:
----------
141. Janet B
Jun 27, 10:01 pm
I don't use choke chains. Not quite true - I use a jeweler's hex link
on Franklin at times - it's puuuuuurty. I know the "sound" thing
and all, and when training a dog in a non-group setting, that sound
may be a factor, but I think it fails in the context of a group class.
So, I prefer the better fitting nylon slip collars, and very often,
pinch collars (small link unless it's a freaky dog, then they need
the milder medium link).
But I use e-collars too. With one of my dogs and with some clients.
For circumstances where a physical collar and leash is not the right
answer. I'm sure Lucy has no clue what THAT means!
--
Janet B
----------
HOWEDY janet,
Looks like you and your pals have gone totally INSANE again:
Janet B wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 14:44:14 -0500, Janet B
> <j...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com>, clicked their heels and said:
> > Since you quoted me repeatedly, where does it say I beat dogs, choke
> > dogs, scream at dogs, etc? Thanks for your clarification.
.
> responding to my own post, I had to go back and look at the original
> post, to remind myself what "we" are all accused of doing:
>
> "screaming, choking, shocking, pinching, beating the living crap
> out of your dogs"
>
> Scream? no
>
> Choke? no
>
> Shock? e-collars are a lot more sophisticated than that
>
> Pinch? if you want to classify a momentary discomfort by a prong
> collar, go ahead, but unless you have first hand experience with
> one, your opinion means nothing
>
> Beat the living crap out of? hardly - no hitting exists
"Chin CHUCK absolutely doesn't mean slap,"
professora gingold.
"BethF" <b...@NOT-SO-bad-dawgs-in-ak.com>
wrote in message
news:v4r8kkf...@corp.supernews.com...
Kyle, FWIW, i thought it was pretty funny,
and i often call my little dog the turd, because
he is one. Some folks think its HORRRIBLE i
would insult my dog like that so i guess its just a
matter of personality.
Kyle, the best way to teach him to stay away is to
step on him once. Seriously.
"Whatever Motivates The Dog, But I Daresay Most
Of The Dogs I Have In Classes Just Aren't That
Interested In Praise."
"BethF" <d...@alaska.com> wrote in message
news:uohnj3r...@corp.supernews.com...
Maybe that's what we should do - hold back the dobie
girl so that Izzy can put Simon in his place.
"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness," mustang sally.
"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me.
I volunteered as assistant to the euthanasia
tech at our local shelter for a while, and
I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.
This however has nothing at all to do with
responsible breeders, because responsible
breeders don't contribute to that problem,"
Mustang Sally.
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001
Subject: Re: shock collars
Sally Hennessey <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:b8m1dtsv6vuiblo63...@4ax.com...
Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-
righteous, this post shows and absence of knowledge
in the differences in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps
a lack of ability to perceive same.
The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to
whom corrections and discomfort, even pain, were
unimportant does not mean that such dogs do not exist.
What it means is that you don't know as much about
dogs as you think you do, and you surely don't know
a damn thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.
I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with
one of her housemates; that dog had no fear or
anything, and pain incurred during a fight meant
nothing to her.
I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that
you, Alison, continue to say things to people such as
what you said to Theresa about causing her dog to
suffer (at least I guess that's what you meant by
"you cause your dog suffers" - - must be the King's
English you guys talk about over there) means that
you are an ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person
who is not worth further notice.
Sally Hennessey
"Sally Hennessey" <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:54nuetsqgkhp26qqv...@4ax.com...
Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.
I'm starting to see some similarities here.
Sally Hennessey
3 From: sighthounds & siberians
Date: Mon, Jun 12 2006 4:16 pm
montana wildhack wrote:
> On 2006-06-10 16:56:28 -0400, sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com> said:
> > Plus
> > she's easier to clean up when she
> I'm sorry to read that.
> Aside from the shedding, I hardly know how to act since we have one
> almost 5 year old dog with no major health issues. It's really weird.
I dream of such weirdness. Matty's death reduced the number of males
requiring belly bands for medical reasons, as well as the number of
dogs taking Previcox. But Anna's feeding routines and medications are
really expensive and time-consuming. On a good note, she stopped
eating canned food during the last bout of aspiration pneumonia (#5, I
think) and we switched her to kibble (soaked until soggy, then ground
up with a mixer until it's sort of a paste, and formed into balls).
*Much* cheaper, less messy when she inevitably coughs it all over the
vicinity and the person feeding, higher in calories, and she really
likes it, at least for now. I can't imagine what it would be like to
never chew anything crunchy again, poor dog.
Mustang Sally
"Janet Boss offered a pat on the back, commenting that
ultimately it wasn't Kate's decision. Whose was it? I asked.
Why, it was Teena's, averred Janet.
Janet was in an exculpatory frame of mind because she
contributed to this travesty herself, by advising Kate to
repeat the aggression trigger (grooming) on a daily basis.
It's all in the archives.
Now these two are spouting off about what kind of e-collars
they like to use on their dogs. Well, I've got an AC Delco
model that would be just right for Janet or Kate. BZZZZzzt!
I'd have to find it though, and I can't remember if I left
it in my underground bunker or the crawlspace under my
house," Charlie.
Here's janet's PARTNER:
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
sinofabitch writes:
> > What I have said- repeatedly - is that he
> > took posts from two different people,
> > took pieces of them out of context,
Of curse. QUOTED. You wanna see it in context?
> > cobbled them together,
No. There was WON DIRECT QUOTE.
> > then added his own words:
"Neatly," and "Smartly."
> > and a fake signature.
"sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.
> > Which is exactly what he did.
INDEEDY. That's HOWE COME you deny it.
> > The actual quote is misleading
That so?
> > when taken out of context,
We'd been talkin abHOWET beatin the dog with a shoe...
> > and Jerry's faked "quote"
The WON sinofabitch totally DENIES.
> > is downright meaningless.
Only if you're a MENTAL CASE.
Here's Jerry's version
"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.
Here's yours:
"I dropped the leash, threw my
right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
grabbed her opposite foot with my
left hand, rolled her on her side,
leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and
nipped her ear.
--Sara Sionnach
"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"
See?
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "CourteHOWES Canine."
"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?
When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first time,
spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth and walk
away. The dog won't be too thrilled with this but just
ignore him and continue your normal behavior."
--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"CourteHOWES Canines"
"Marshall Dermer" <der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:a3h5qn$mra$1...@uwm.edu...
> Di,
> I don't believe you mentioned a particular kind of
> training. If you are interested in training retrieval
> behavior than do consider our own Amy Dahl's:
> The 10-Minute Retriever : How to Make a Well-
> Mannered, Obedient and Enthusiastic Gun Dog
> in 10 Minutes a Day by John I. Dahl, Amy Dahl
You failed to mention your pals the dahls are
proven liars and dog abusers, professor "SCRUFF SHAKE:"
"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog
I Do Not Believe There Is A Single Circumstance
Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is Anything But
Destructive," "I don't see why anyone would want
to choke or beat a dog, or how any trainer could
possibly get a good working dog by making them
unhapper, fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying
frosty dahl.
> just $17.95 at Amazon.com.
> (Also, it is best to killfile posts from the few
> regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
> ill-mannered, or just plain ill.)
> --Marshall
amy lying frosty dahl continues:
"On the other extreme, the really ard dogs
we have trained require much more frequent
and heavy application of pressure (PAIN j.h.)
to get the job done,
This is continued resistance to your increasing
authority, and the job is not done until it is overcome
lying frosty dahl sez she doesn't twist:
"None of my posts, prior to or subsequent to
Jerry Howe's attacks, encourage anyone to
twist ears, beat dogs, confront, intimidate,
frighten, or any of the crap he constantly
attributes to me," lying frosty dahl.
BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!
"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.
Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies
HURT all their lives like HOWE HOWER dog
lovers PREFER to HURT THEIR DOGS?
"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."
The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies
to SAVE THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE.
We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...
Sez on our FAQ'S pages at K9 Web you should
knee the dog in the chest, step on its toes, throw
him down by his ears and climb all over it like a
raped ape growling into his throat and bite IT on
his ears, or leash pop it on a pronged spiked pinch
choke collar or pop him in the snout with the heel
of your palm.
"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This (Destructive Separation
Anxiety). I've Suggested It To Quite A Few
Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY TIME
The Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer, 33
Years Experience.
You DO remember KILLFILING MARILYN for
her coment above regarding her success with
The Puppy Wizard's Surrogate Toy Separation
Anxiety / Bed Time Calming / Submissive
Urination Technique (STSA/BTC/SUT)?
Perhaps you likeWIZE recall a pediatrician, Dr. Z,
who commented that his bed time calming technique
was quite similar?
> > You're scary Marilyn.
> > Marilyn must be quite a disturbed individual.
> > I feel very sorry for her and her family.
"His Amazing Progress Almost Makes Me Cry.
Your Method Takes Positive Training To The
Next Level And Should Really Be Used By All
Trainers Who Call Themselves Trainers. Thank
You For Helping Me Save His Life," Kay Pierce,
Professional Trainer, 30 Years Experience.
"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know Jack
Wouldn't Have Done It If He Thought Solo Couldn't
Take It. I Still Crate Him Because Otherwise I Fear
He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "CourteHOWES Canine."
"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?
When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first time,
spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth and walk
away. The dog won't be too thrilled with this but just
ignore him and continue your normal behavior."
--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"CourteHOWES Canines"
We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAau...@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?
> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.
> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST
Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.
Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
---------------
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day
Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.
Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's
just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14
Bioso...@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<37D698CF.405B0...@bellsouth.net>:
> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.
Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.
Why did you blow it?
--Matt
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????
Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?
I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918au...@130.133.1.4...
> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.
> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"dallygirl" <kwic...@hotmail.com> said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> choke chains are outdated and barbaric in many cases
> causing more harm than good.
Back at you with flat buckle collars. These are an
incredibly abused training tool, what with the number
of handlers I see pulling back and jerking on the leash
with both hands.
It's a good thing that most of us are here because of dogs'
well-being and not an agenda.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will
Seem Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe.
This Is A Normal Reaction The First Few Times
It Happens, But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."
"Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a
helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.
Tougher, less tractable dogs may require
you to progress to striking them more
sharply," lying frosty dahl, ethical breeder,
expert trainer.
"On the other extreme, the really hard dogs
we have trained require much more
frequent and heavy application of pressure
(PAIN j.h.) to get the job done,
This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome
"You can press the dog's ear with a
shotshell instead of your thumb even
get a studded collar and pinch the ear
against that Make the dog's need to stop
the pinching so urgent that resisting your
will fades in importance.
CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever
Ready Right Hand, As it catches on, try
using the stick and no ear pinch.
When the dog is digging out to beat the
stick and seems totally reliable without
any ear pinch, you are finished
This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome"
If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly
under the chin, say "No! Hold!"
(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps
because the ear is getting tender, or the
dog has decided it isn't worth it)" lying
frosty dahl.
You think a EXXXPERT trainer got to BEAT
a HUNTIN dog to MAKE IT HUNT?
"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.
Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies HURT all
their lives like HOWE HOWER dog lovers PREFER to
HURT THEIR DOGS?
"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."
The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies
to SAVE THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE.
We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL.
That's INSANE. Ain't it.
"When you get bagged for lying you're MARKED
FOR LIFE," The Puppy Wizard's DADDY <{); ~ ) >
BWEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAau...@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?
> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.
> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST
Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.
Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
---------------
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day
Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.
Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's
just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14
Bioso...@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<37D698CF.405B0...@bellsouth.net>:
> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.
Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.
Why did you blow it?
--Matt
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????
Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?
I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918au...@130.133.1.4...
> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.
> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
From: Mark Shaw (m...@bangnetcom.com)
Subject: Re: Fido-Shock
Date: 2002-04-10 14:12:18 PST
In article <gWLs8.203228$af7.101030@rwcrnsc53>,
"Coleman Brumley" <clbrum...@home.com> wrote:
> Has anyone had experience with this product (Fido-
> Shock). If so, what model number, voltage, etc.?
If you're talking about the pet-grade hotwire system,
I have one. It's to keep boarded dogs out of my flowers.
> I have a 1.5 year St Bernard who is scaling (not clearing --
> more like falling over) our 4 foot fence to visit with owners
> walking their dogs. I thought of raising the fence a foot or
> so, but don't think that'll solve the problem. I've tried
> watching her outside, and give a stern "NO" when she
> props on the fence for a peek over it. No avail.
> I've heard this product works after just a couple of tries.
I take it you're considering running the wire across the top
of the fence? I don't think I'd recommend that, although it
may be worth a try. Watch closely -- the one case where I saw
a hotwire used in this fashion caused the dog undue stress and
frustration, and he tried even harder to get over the fence.
So be prepared to take it down right away.
That was a Dane, though. With a Saint things might be
different.
--
Mark Shaw
culprit's dogs MURDERED her kat for
standin behind their SHOCK FENCE
just like HOWE liea's dog attacked
her only friend and tried to attack two
little kids for standin in her SHOCK ZONE:
From: culprit (culp...@flashmail.com)
Subject: Re: Video clip......."Nero" practicing
bark alert, while walking backwards
Date: 2004-06-05 18:53:50 PST
"micha el" <spam_yurs...@spamyourmamma.com>
wrote in message news:yIydnZpPsIz...@comcast.com...
> Anyway, contrary to your PR, this is what
> it felt like to me when I got shocked by
> Hope's collar.
> It felt like a bomb going off in my
> hand and forearm.
--------------------------------
"Tricia9999" <tricia9...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021117101433...@mb-cg.aol.com...
>> how effective are these electronic fences in
>> keeping a dog on a property????
Some run through it. Others get shocked and become
too scared to go out in the yard anymore.
Just heard of a guy that has to rehome his dog,
because the dog got caught right in the path of
the shock and will now not go near his person,
won't go outside.
Just hides under a desk in the house.
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAau...@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?
> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.
> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST
Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.
Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
---------------
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day
Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.
Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's
just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14
Bioso...@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<37D698CF.405B0...@bellsouth.net>:
> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.
Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.
Why did you blow it?
--Matt
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????
Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?
I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918au...@130.133.1.4...
> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.
> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHHAAAA!!!
"I'd call the SHOCK fence effective and safe.
Humane is one of those hot words that people
can debate all day so I won't touch that one.
There are people who would call a regular chain
link fence inhumane," liea altshuller.
"I know this is a hard subject to bring up without
starting the whole cruelty thread again so I'll
state my opinion once and won't defend it further:
any method can be cruel for some dogs.
Even the slightest punishment was wrong for Cubbe at
the beginning, but we've come a long way since then.
She trusts us now as I mentioned in a recent post.
Point is, she's been rewarded for coming, but she's
never been punished, even in the mildest way, for
not coming.
Is it time for that?
What might I look for to tell?"
"Julia Altshuler" <jaltshu...@comcast.net>
wrote in message news:McYnb.45145$ao4.106231@attbi_s51...
After talking with the vet yesterday and watching
Cubbe all day today, I'm convinced that the shaking
is behavioral, not physical. Naturally I'll continue
keeping an eye on her, but when I add everything
up, I don't see symptoms of anything neurological--
and the vet agrees.
--Lia
"Things are beginning to get much worse day
by day and the vets seem unable to help.
http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorRufusMed.WMV
http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorRufusSmall.WMV"
THAT'S AN OCD. His owner CAUSED IT by
MISHANDLING and ABUSING his dog according
to the BEST advice of HOWER Gang Of Lying
Dog Abusing Punk Thug Cowards And ACTIVE
LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES and
ASYLUM ESCAPEES.
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAau...@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?
> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.
> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST
Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.
Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
---------------
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day
Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.
Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's
just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14
Bioso...@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<37D698CF.405B0...@bellsouth.net>:
> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.
Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.
Why did you blow it?
--Matt
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????
Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?
I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918au...@130.133.1.4...
> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.
> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHHAAAA!!!
In this video, the dog is constantly jerking his
head all around. I'm not SHORE why he's doing that.
If he's doing it because he is being shocked repeatedly
into getting onto that skateboard, then it is my
opinion that Fred Hassen is a dog abuser in the
extreme. As would anyone be, no matter how much
"experience" they had shocking dogs, nor how
nationally "respected" they are/were.
If, HOWEver, the dog is jerking his head all around
because he is happy and for no other reason, well,
then, never mind. I've just never seen this kind of
behavior from a dog before, so maybe Fred can
explain what would cause a dog to move his head
like that.
Here's a other:
http://tinyurl.com/2v9oh
"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828...@mb-m18.aol.com...
> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
> Janet Boss
>
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1...@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916...@mb-m17.aol.com...
> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.
An INSENSITIVE DOG???
> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
>
>
On 6 Feb 2006 01:19:16 -0800,
"dallygirl" <kwic...@hotmail.com>, clicked their heels and said:
> janet, yes unfortunatly i have. i joined a mother and daughter duo
> training group and i am still kicking my arse over it :( i have since
> learnt (and anyone new to dogs please take note!) they have no
> qualifications only their own experience.
What exactly does that mean?
> its because of them i am busting a gut to get qualified and to join the apdt.
"credentials" only mean something if the issuing organization is
recognized as THE authority. The American Medical Association, The
American Bar Association - things like that. There is no "whatever"
dog association that licenses dog trainers.
> i saw a massive negative difference in my dogs behaviour when on the
> lead and i didnt yank or pull i never would no matter what the
> 'trainers' said.
What exactly were you doing with the lead that caused a negative
behavior? Do you not use a lead when training? Not on city streets?
> i guess i was as distressed as my dog.
I'm pretty sure you are the only one who was distressed and you
transmitted that to your dog.
> i took a dog out of this real nasty hell hole. the lady had set her
> self up as a rescue then had about 20 dogs running free in her back
> garden and it broke down to chaos.i took out a young lab female who
> was so scared she wouldnt climb into my car and i wasnt going to force
> her so i just sat next to her but on my tail gate. the 'rescue' woman
> growled and grabbed the dog at the back of the neck and a lump of flesh
> at the rump and threw her into my car.
What on earth does that have to do with properly using a variety of
training tools? So far, you've equated using choke collars with
people who enjoy drop-kicking dogs.
>with ppl such as this working with dogs i want to show a 'better way'.
>i don't refer to them when i'm talking to the person on the street as
>'tools of horror' but i do give them some tips on a nicer way.
When 150# Cujo is trying to eat the dog net door,
what "nicer way" do you employ?
> the thing is, you put one of those around your neck, be it choke
> prong or electric and then tell me you want to keep using them.
My neck is very different from a dog's neck. I have no problem with a
choke or prong on my neck - I would respond accordingly. As far as
electric, I have had a ton of PT at times, and the electricity has
been a godsend.
>ok i am bent over ~ no pointy toes please, but form an orderly line to
>kick my arse..............i am braced :)
Nope - don't believe in kicking. But I do use a variety of collars
when training dogs. I'm not a big fan of CHAIN chokes, because I
don't find them easy to fit properly. I prefer nylon slip collars in
general, will never connect a leash to a buckle ID collar, and find
prong collars to be very, very useful training tools.
Rudy is going to start learning the e-collar this week.
I'm sure you'll NOT hear screams from across the pond.
--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAau...@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?
> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.
> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST
Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.
Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
---------------
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day
Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.
Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's
just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14
Bioso...@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<37D698CF.405B0...@bellsouth.net>:
> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.
Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.
Why did you blow it?
--Matt
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????
Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?
I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918au...@130.133.1.4...
> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.
> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
THAT'S sumpthin to be PR-HOWED abHOWET, eh matty?
Paxil Princess psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks"
things is something you twisted out of
context, because you are full of bizarro
manure."
"Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper
wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them more
sharply.
REPEAT, VARYING HOW HARD YOU HIT THE DOG.
Now you are ready to progress to what most people think of
as force-fetching: the ear pinch.
Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so urgent that
resisting your will fades in importance.
but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to
escaping the ear pinch even get a studded collar and pinch
the ear against that if the dog still does not open its mouth,
get out the shotshell.
Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the
collar, even the buckle on the collar.
Persist! Eventually, the dog will give in
With your hand on the collar and ear, say, 'fetch.'
Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the stick.
Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to the dummy.
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell instead of your
thumb; Say 'fetch' while pressing the dummy against its lips
and pinching its ear," lying frosty dahl.
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:
"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue
From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20
ginge...@my-deja.com wrote:
> How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.
Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.
"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works
better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
this situation.
Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can
take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that
time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
whatever other reward system was being used."
8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong
works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
why you have the dog muzzled).
If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.
This is important - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.
And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.
Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."
Lynn K.
----------------
"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.
Should I have refused to groom them?
Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."
Lynn K.
----------------
Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
<news:04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@TeraNews>...
Lynn, looks like he got you there if these
quotes are true.
In the posts below you take responsibility for
making those calls.
In your post above, you state you do not
make those calls.
Which one is it?
WORDS OF WISDOM
From Our Own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg Of Lithium And 50 mg Of Zoloft
EVERY DAY
For Twenty Years
I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM
"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-
depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50
mg of Zoloft every day.
I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to
learn more, while happily sharing pertinent
information I have learned. But if I were ever
to post such sh*t, I would hope that every other
reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."
"Community is an evolutionary thing that we
earn the right to participate in by observing
the easily understood rules and contributing
to in constructive ways."
"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."
Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------
LYNN K. and LOIS E, and a BiLateral, BiPolar
conversation on Mental problems. LYNN AND LOIS
Almost 50 years on mental illness medications combined
-----------------------------------------
> But I think what Lois was referring to was
> the fact that Darlene actually stated at
> some point that she was bipolar--and, IIRC,
> that meds did not work for her--so she was
> prone to major-league ups and downs and sudden
> enthusiasms..
"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."
Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------
LYNN K. and the UNQUIET MIND
From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/03
BoxHill wrote:
> I know I am totally off topic here, but have
> you read "The Unquiet Mind"?
Yeah. It's interesting, but kind of
watered down for the mass market, if
you know what I mean. There's really
quite a lot of good work out there and
decent research. Thank God.
Lynn K.
---------------------------------------
MOTHER AND CHILD REUNION "KUCKOO!! CUCKOO!!!"
MOTHER (LOIS E.) 22 YEARS on TRICYCLICS, DAUGHTER BIPOLAR...
YOU DO THE MATH
"What's really terrific, is now days you can say proudly,
'I take anti-depressives'"
From: Gary & lois Edwards (g...@bmi.net)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/02
BEEN ON TRICYCLICS FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS
"I don't take lithium, but I've been on trycyclics
for about 22 years. Been there, done that, have
the t-shirt to prove it. What's really terrific,
is now days you can say proudly,
"I take anti-depressives". Back when I started
taking them it was seen as something shameful.
If you cut your leg off, and were lying there with
a bleeding stump, you'd never let the word
depressed, pass your lips, or the doc's would say,
"You're depressed, on medication? Well, can't have
any pain meds.....you could become addicted."
The good old days. I actually had a Great Aunt who's
father locked her in her room back in the twenties
because she was simple. A shame that medication
probably would have helped her live a normal life.
No Denna, I was just saying with Darlene's
personality, she has a way of making grandiose
plans when at the top of her manic cycle....as
does my daughter. I wasn't saying that anyone
with problems could be counted on to be
irresponsible."
Lois E.
-------------------------------------
"It was kind of funny, in an absurd way. The rabbit
was completely still, eyes open and glazed, dried
blood in his ears and mouth, with his back legs
stiffening quickly.
It was her pet rabbit, not a wild bunny, so
that made it much harder for her.
And he was killed by bichons.
Her dogs had torn it apart. My one student who had
shown up (another weird thing about the night) and I
had to continuously check for heart and bowel sounds
for her, until she could accept that the rabbit was dead.
(The rigor mortis in his back legs she attributed to "pain").
Full moon.
Canine Action Dog Trainer
http://www.canineaction.com
> Then she mentioned the names of her dogs,
> and I immediately remembered them.
YOUR STUDENT, leah. Like that RECENT GRADUATE
STUDENT Rottie who'd been in your SOCIALIZATION
classes since IT was ten weeks old who RECENTLY
MURDERED a little innocent DEAD DOG at the park.
> I will always remember the dogs.
Yeah. You and ed w of PET LOSS dot COIN.
From: dfrntdr...@aol.comMURK-OFF (Leah)
Date: 05 Nov 2002 00:55:40 GMT
Subject: Re: The Puppy Wizard
>"Mike E" m...@egbert.com wrote:
> My question was "Is there any legitimacy to the
> harshly-worded teachings of the Puppy Wizard?"
Any legitimate advice he gives is plagiarized from
other, more coherent sources.
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. :}
PetsMart Pet Trainer
See My Furry Family At:
Leah Effexor for chronic depression, in denial
about being mentally ill. Has taken
several other mentally ill medications
before settling on effexor for her chronic
mental problems. Recenly changed to
another ANTI PSYCHOTIC prescription.
"I don't think Jerry intentionally lies. I think he twists
things around in his own mind until he actually believes
what he's saying."
Jerry is the only poster here who gives dangerous
advice. Google for spike and squirt. And let's not
forget the times he's told posters whose dogs have
medical problems that his halfwits-end program could
cure them.
PetsMart Pet Trainer
My Kids, My Students, My Life
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAau...@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?
> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.
> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST
Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.
Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
---------------
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day
Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.
Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's
just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14
Bioso...@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<37D698CF.405B0...@bellsouth.net>:
> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.
Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.
Why did you blow it?
--Matt
From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????
Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?
I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918au...@130.133.1.4...
> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.
> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"dallygirl" <kwic...@hotmail.com> said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> choke chains are outdated and barbaric in many cases
> causing more harm than good.
Back at you with flat buckle collars. These are an
incredibly abused training tool, what with the number
of handlers I see pulling back and jerking on the leash
with both hands.
It's a good thing that most of us are here because of dogs'
well-being and not an agenda.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAHAHAHHHHAHHHAAAAA!!!
NHOWE THAT'S SUMPTHIN TO BE PR-HOWED abHOWET, eh matty?
The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
The_Insanely_Freakin_Simply...@HotMail.Com
The_Insanely_Freakin_Simply...@hotmail.com
ETHICKAL puppy miller an professional dog trainn FRAUD and
SCAM ARTIST,
Amy Dahl wrote:
> thepopster wrote:
>
> > I have a Chesepeake Bay Retriever pup about 8 months old. In the same
> > house with me and the dog are my daughter and grand daughter.
>
> [snip]
>
> >
> > On a normal day, he seems to want to be around her no matter where she
> > goes. This is understandable since he is a pup and she is a kid and
> > active. But on other occasions, if she were to walk by him while he is
> > eating, or similar circumstances, he will snarl at her and even one
> > time snarled and jumped towards her. We put him in the cage when he
> > does this but just wandering why he does this. I'm sure the above
> > story may have some holes in it and you may have questions, if so just
> > ask.
>
> This breed is known for possessiveness with food.
That's SHEER IDIOCY. Food aggression is a SYMPTOM of MISTRUST.
> There is potential for someone to get bitten if they get too close to his food dish,
NO PROBLEMO. ANY behavior that's PREDICTABLE REPEATABLE
or CONSISTENT is EZ to EXXXTINGUISH or PUT ON CUE *(TRAIN)
NEARLY INSTANTLY if you understand conditional reflex, lyin frosty
dahl <{}; ~ ) >
> or if some item of food is dropped near him and a person is also nearby.
You mean someWON the dog DON'T TRUST, like HOWE when marcel
the imbecile's dog bit his mrs. for tryin to take some STUFF he'd
stolen.
> My top recommendation would be to hire a behavioral specialist who
> deals with "resource-guarding" behavior, especially one who is familiar
> with the Chesapeake breed.
THAT'S INSANE.
> They can teach you protocols for diminishing
> the behavior and keeping everyone as safe as possible.
That so?
Perhaps you can recommend WON, lyin frosty dahl?
> A low-budget solution would be to always feed the dog privately,
That'll INCREASE fear, lyin frosty dahl.
> and be rigidly careful about where food is and how it is handled,
> any time he is at large in the house.
You mean MANAGE the BEHAVIOR, lyin frosty dahl? Wasn't you
just tellin us that ALWAYS FAILS, lyin frosty dahl?: "my aggression-
specialist friend has a maxim:"management always fails."
REMEMBER NHOWE, lyin frosty dahl?
> My behaviorist friend says, however, that
> "management always fails."
SEE???
> What I would not recommend is to punish the dog, snatch
> his food away, or anything of that sort.
What then WOULD you "recommend" lyin frosty dahl?
> Obedience training always helps.
Do tell?
> This is a breed that really needs to be trained.
By a EXXXPERT like yourself?
> Defending food against a child, however, is a behavioral issue
> that is not really between the (adult) trainer and the dog,
INDEEDY. IN FACT, THAT'S WHO CAUSED IT.
> so special attention to the issue is desirable.
INDEED?
> On the business with the pool, these tend to be high-drive,
> persistent, obsessive dogs. I have heard of some learning
> not to scratch family members with the claws while swimming,
> but have never taught that.
You mean on accHOWENT of you don't know HOWE.
> Probably your best bet is to start crating him
> now, before the behavior gets any further established.
You mean MANAGEMENT, again, lying frosty dahl?
> If you don't mind saying, where do you live? Is your dog's breeder
> local, and is he/she available to give you advice, recommend training
> classes, and so forth?
Hey! That's a BRILLIANT idea!
> Amy Dahl
"No. I bought the dog as a puppy, and microchipped her when I had
her hips evaluated shortly after her 2nd birthday. Not long after,
John and I decided that she wasn't going to make a field trial dog
and didn't meet our criteria for a brood bitch, so we sold her to a
guy who wanted to run her in hunt tests."
"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog I Do Not Believe There
Is A Single Circumstance Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is Anything
But Destructive," "I don't see why anyone would want to choke or
beat a dog, or how any trainer could possibly get a good working dog
by making them unhapper, fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying frosty
dahl.
"None of my posts, prior to or subsequent to
Jerry Howe's attacks, encourage anyone to
twist ears, beat dogs, confront, intimidate,
frighten, or any of the crap he constantly
attributes to me," lying frosty dahl.
BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!
"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.
Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies
HURT all their lives like HOWE HOWER dog
lovers PREFER to HURT THEIR DOGS?
"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."
The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies
to SAVE THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE.
=====================
Amy Dahl writes:
amy lying frosty dahl continues:
unsurrea...@yahoo.com
The_Insanely_Freakin_Simply...@HotMail.Com
wrote:
> HOWEDY mikey aka pat aka unsurreality you anonymHOWES lyin dog
> an child an SP-HOWES abusing punk thug coward active acute chronic
> long term incurable mental case,
>
> unsurrea...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Foren...@HotMail.Com
> > wrote:
> > > HOWEDY unsurreality aka pat aka BLACK VOMITHOWES aka
> > > miserableoldcrab (MOCrab) aka HAIRY STINKY CA CA BUTT
> > > IMBECILE aka big hairy bean bag aka mike dufort you mentally
> > > ill viciHOWES lyin dog child and SP-HOWES abusing coward <{): ~ ) >
> >
> > Wouldn't it be nice just for ONCE if you said something correct?
>
> Did you forget to say 'HOWEDY', mikey? Did your parents raise
> you to be a rude inconsiderate ignorameHOWES like them, mikey?
>
> You forgot to put NINNYBOY in the subject header and failed
> to trim crossposts to avoid EMBARRASSMENT, mikey.
>
> > Just once?
>
> Let's talk abHOWET HOWE to TRAIN the OP's dog not to do that, eh mikey?
Naw. What we need to talk about will be in court...no reason to talk
here...