Need help with mouthing/biting puppy please.
Jeff Nowak
very mouthy and I want to know when it is going to stop. I have
read the Monk's book about how to deal with it. I hold his mouth
shut until he wines then release he will lick at my hand but 2 minutes
later he is always going after my hands and not his toys I offer.
I practice with holding on his back to put him in a submissive
position. How old should he be before I really give a good scruff
shake? I always give a firm "stop it!!" with eye contact when I
correct but I think he needs more. Am I right or is this a phase
that he will get over by my repeating what I have been doing?
Thanks for any advice.
Jeff Nowak
Bob Haslett
Hi Jeff; sounds like you're compounding the problem. Most dogs express
affection by "holding" your hand with their mouth What else can they use/
If you distract the dog by playing or obedience training you will probably find
that that will meet the dog's need for attention and wean it off the constant
licking. Correction often leads to a demand by the dog for more affection.
>
PhilipS949
response.
I also hold his mouth shut and tell him BAD DOG then hand him a chew toy
such as a nylabone or pig ear (from pet store). it does seem to help.
I was told that puppys listen by tone of voice before they learn words.
That I think is true because he seems to listen to me and not others in
the family.
GNU...@infonet.net
>I have a 13 week old male bernese mountain dog puppy. He is
>very mouthy and I want to know when it is going to stop. I have
>read the Monk's book about how to deal with it. I hold his mouth
>shut until he wines then release he will lick at my hand but 2 minutes
>later he is always going after my hands and not his toys I offer.
>I practice with holding on his back to put him in a submissive
>position. How old should he be before I really give a good scruff
>shake? I always give a firm "stop it!!" with eye contact when I
mom dogs do it at about 4 weeks :)
>correct but I think he needs more. Am I right or is this a phase
>that he will get over by my repeating what I have been doing?
>
>Thanks for any advice.
>
>Jeff Nowak
Dont let him mouth or bite you, he'll get the idea he is pack leader, bad move.
then he'll figure he doesnt have to do anyhting you say. As a puppy he will
continue to test you, continue to prove you are alpha (top dog). Also
try 1) growling at him nice and low growl 2) GENTLY GENTLY mouthing him
back on the muzzle. or, classic mom dog discipline, roll him on his back, and keep
him there a while. If he satrst to get up push him back and growl. Mom dogs do this
all the time and the bouncing pups generally get the idea. (by "a while I mean 10
or 15 seconds) then let him up
--rob
P.S. usually dogs use other means to show affection, all 12 husky friends of mine
love me but none of them bites or mouths. they usually drown me in slobber with
their toungue.
Morgan le Faye
Jeff Nowak <no...@ll.mit.edu> wrote:
>I have a 13 week old male bernese mountain dog puppy. He is
>very mouthy and I want to know when it is going to stop. I have
>read the Monk's book about how to deal with it. I hold his mouth
>shut until he wines then release he will lick at my hand but 2 minutes
>later he is always going after my hands and not his toys I offer.
>I practice with holding on his back to put him in a submissive
>position. How old should he be before I really give a good scruff
>shake? I always give a firm "stop it!!" with eye contact when I
>that he will get over by my repeating what I have been doing?
>
>Thanks for any advice.
>
>Jeff Nowak
>
I thought my dog wouldn't learn squat when she was around four months
either, but I would bet that she IS learning. It just takes a while
to accumulate. =-)
Continue to be consistent and patient. She WILL learn. I have
noticed that my Shepherd is very "mouthy" compared to the spaniel I
grew up with. For instance, if I come home and DO NOT let her mouth
my hand, she is hyper and jumpy for about ten minutes, even while I'm
petting her and talking to her.
If I offer my hand and let her mouth it (this means MOUTHING, not
biting, and this is something she's only been able to clearly
differentiate in the last 2 months or so, she's now almost 12 months)
she calms down in a matter of two minutes and goes about her day
(leaving me to wash off a slobber covered hand). I noticed that when
my husband would correct her for just general MOUTHING behavior, she
seemed rather upset emotionally by this (not meaning to sound nuts or
anything, but she did look "hurt."). So I tried to be very consistent
as to what "level" was appropriate, but at 13 weeks those teeth are
sharp and your pup is NOT going to be able to differentiate, I bet!
Hang in there, it WILL get better.
amy
--
amy
aly...@indiana.edu
http://nickel.ucs.indiana.edu/~alyoung
These ideas and opinions are my own. Big surprise, eh?
Cliff Hammond
>[...].>suggestion--yell "ouch!" loudly so the puppy will know its
>hurting you (and ham it up a bit, because puppies do not have
>subtle minds). The puppy draws back momentarily in surprise;
>then praise. Of course, puppy will immediately try again--this
>is its instinctive notion of how to relate to you and will take
>a lot of patience to unlearn. Over the course of a few months,
>however, you will see a lot of progress.
>
Dramatically yelling "Ouch!" has worked well for me too. But there is a
combination of things that has paid off, and Peppy, my 5 month old
Terrihuahua, no longer knaws me to the bone. 2) whenever he goes nuts
biting me in his affectionate puppy mode I shove a lime in his mouth
(book says use a lemon but he IS a Chihuahua, thank you); 3) I noticed
that he plays with dogs much bigger than he is. Every time he was the
victim of inconsiderate kanine oral proclivities, he returned home to
practice a MUCH gentler bite in his own puppy play (vicarious learning);
4) I began shoving a chew stick of rawhide in his mouth to play with him;
and 5) he is growing up (when he discovered that he likes his face
stroked, his back scratched and his tummy rubbed, he gave up bitting in
the relational ecconomy that his cooperation for reinforcement to occurr.
>.[...]
>
>Katharine Maus
--
-cliff
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ +
+ "If homosexuality is a disease, let's all call in queer to work. +
+ 'Hello, can't work today, still queer.'" --Comic Robin Tyler +
+ +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Katharine E. Maus
helpful on this problem, with my puppies. Their solution works
if the biting/mouthing is due to a dominance move on the part
of the puppy (because you're showing him you're in charge) but
not if the puppy is actually in a submissive mood and just
trying to show affection the only way it knows how. I had better luck
with Ian Dunbar's
suggestion--yell "ouch!" loudly so the puppy will know its
hurting you (and ham it up a bit, because puppies do not have
subtle minds). The puppy draws back momentarily in surprise;
then praise. Of course, puppy will immediately try again--this
is its instinctive notion of how to relate to you and will take
a lot of patience to unlearn. Over the course of a few months,
however, you will see a lot of progress.
Puppies do need to chew, especially during their teething
phases, so give him lots of alternatives to your arm.
Gummabones, nylabones, real (big) marrow bones, Cressite rubber
toys, rawhides, etc. all work well.
Katharine Maus
ARMSTRONG,SUSAN,MS
Sorry, didn't see the first post on this subject. But here are a
few things that worked on wolf pups that I helped to raise
(at Wolf Park, Indiana). The animals there are *never* punished
(in the usual sense) because physical punishment is a pointless way to
try to manage wolf behaviour.
Mouthing and biting by wolf pups is discouraged by doing
things to them that are mildly unpleasant, or surprising, which
the pups would prefer not to experience. Press the pup's lip between
its back teeth: this means that the pup hurts itself if it
persists in biting too hard. Stick your fingers into the back
of the pup's mouth; this makes it gag. If the pup is small in size
(or you are an athlete), pick up the pup in one hand and
give it a brief "helicopter ride" (turn it around in mid-air
once or twice, etc.) -- just for a second or two. These things must
all be done *when* the pup is biting. (Ten seconds *after* the pup has
bitten you is way too late for the pup to make the connection.)
Pup puts two and two together: Hmm, strange yucky things happen when I
bite people.
Someone mentioned popping a rawhide chew into a pup's mouth when
it got too "bitey". I don't know about that; sounds like you're
rewarding the pup for biting. (Yes, I know you don't mean it as a
reward, but the pup may not see it that way! Unless it hates rawhide
chews. Pup puts 2 and 2 together: Hey! What a neat way to get a
fresh rawhide chew!)
-- Susan Armstrong
Montreal, Canada
Cliff Hammond
[...]
>Mouthing and biting by wolf pups is discouraged by doing
>things to them that are mildly unpleasant, or surprising, which
>the pups would prefer not to experience. Press the pup's lip between
>its back teeth: this means that the pup hurts itself if it
>persists in biting too hard. Stick your fingers into the back
>of the pup's mouth; this makes it gag. If the pup is small in size
>(or you are an athlete), pick up the pup in one hand and
>give it a brief "helicopter ride" (turn it around in mid-air
-helicopter ride? my chihuahua would LOVE it!
>
>Someone mentioned popping a rawhide chew into a pup's mouth when
>it got too "bitey". I don't know about that; sounds like you're
>rewarding the pup for biting. (Yes, I know you don't mean it as a
>reward, but the pup may not see it that way! Unless it hates rawhide
>chews. Pup puts 2 and 2 together: Hey! What a neat way to get a
>fresh rawhide chew!)
yours is good, solid B-Mod advice, Susan. I was the one who sticks the
rawhide into the pup's mouth. But then I am not really trying to
actively discourage something i know he will grow out of--except when he
was too gung ho about biting, at which time I used limes. He seems to
think the rawhide is all part of the game. I have provided a substitute
to satisfy his chewing instinct while we both play roudy doggie games.
He has even learned to fetch in this manner. While we continue to
play--and I am NOT getting bitten--fetching then becomes a focus in which
we can relate through the game and he gets the reinforcement of carring
the rawhide back to me in......yes, his teeth, knawing all the while.
Using a pups natural inclinations to redirect him is more of an eastern
method. BF Skinner, stuck his oun duaghter in a "Skinner Box!" Now he
is someone even I would like to bite!
>
>-- Susan Armstrong
> Montreal, Canada
>
--
-cliff rh2...@swt.edu
"Given the conditions of contemporary civilization,
how can one claim that the 'normal' man is sane?"
-alan watts
Paulo Soromenho
>
>I have a 13 week old male bernese mountain dog puppy. He is
>very mouthy and I want to know when it is going to stop. I have
>read the Monk's book about how to deal with it. I hold his mouth
>shut until he wines then release he will lick at my hand but 2 minutes
>later he is always going after my hands and not his toys I offer.
>I practice with holding on his back to put him in a submissive
>position. How old should he be before I really give a good scruff
>shake? I always give a firm "stop it!!" with eye contact when I
>correct but I think he needs more. Am I right or is this a phase
>that he will get over by my repeating what I have been doing?
>
>Thanks for any advice.
>
>Jeff Nowak
>
I have a 10 Week old German Sheperd with the same "tendencies" as your
pup. I have a 18 Month Daughter and sometmes he gets carried on and
scrapes her. Although I have noticed he is much better now. What I do is
when he is trying to bite me give hm an alternative like a toy or stick.
He is much bette now. On the beginning In order to let my daughter play
in the garden I gave it a slap in the nose, but I tended to keep this to
a minimum. (I must have gave him 5 or 6 slaps). What I do now is tell him
not to do it and if he continues I hold him, grabbing the skin on the
side of his neck and tell hm that that is wrong at the same time I look
at him in the eyes, once he stops nibbing and biting after a while
Praise him and make a fuss, sometimes I give him a little bribe. If you
or anyone knows of a better way please let me know. It is the first puppy
I am raising and probably I am making lots of miostakes. I think the only
things you keed is lots of patience, attention and love to the dog.
Perfect Paws, Inc.
>>I have a 13 week old male bernese mountain dog puppy. He is
>>very mouthy and I want to know when it is going to stop. I have
>>read the Monk's book about how to deal with it. I hold his mouth
>>shut until he wines then release he will lick at my hand but 2 minutes
>>later he is always going after my hands and not his toys I offer.
>>I practice with holding on his back to put him in a submissive
>>position. How old should he be before I really give a good scruff
>>shake? I always give a firm "stop it!!" with eye contact when I
>>correct but I think he needs more. Am I right or is this a phase
>>that he will get over by my repeating what I have been doing?
Jeff,
I believe the reprimand you are giving will eventually work with
repetition.. But this isn't the only part of training. You should also
provide him with an outlet for his biting. Remember, if he were still
with his littermates, he would be biting them instead of you. So he is
treating you like a littermate in a way. Two things: first play with
him and his toys interactively so he can pounce and attack and bite
them instead of you. You are more interesting because you move, the
toys do not.. (unless you make them move) Second, look at the rest of
your interactions together. If your day to day interaction is that of
a littermate or servant, then he won't develop the trust and respect
for you that he needs to really understand your displeasure with the
biting issue.
I hope you are successful soon because soon you may not beable to
physically hold your dog if he doesn't want to be held. Pups are
supposed to learn not to bite before they lose their "milk teeth."
Nature designed those teeth to be so sharp for a reason.
IMO it is NEVER appropriate to scruff shake or slap a dog for any
reason. In my 20 years of dog training, I've only seen dogs develop
other problems if these methods are used.
Gwen
---------------------------------------------------------------
Perfect Paws, Inc. Dog Behavior & Training Center San Francisco
URL: http://www.perfectpaws.com
Gwen and John Bohnenkamp email: g...@PerfectPaws.com
"...and having created the dog, on the seventh day God rested."
---------------------------------------------------------------
Suka M
>In article <NOWAKJ.95J...@peabdy.llan>, no...@ll.mit.edu says...
>>
>>very mouthy and I want to know when it is going to stop. I have
>>read the Monk's book about how to deal with it. I hold his mouth
>>shut until he wines then release he will lick at my hand but 2 minutes
>>later he is always going after my hands and not his toys I offer.
>>I practice with holding on his back to put him in a submissive
>>position. How old should he be before I really give a good scruff
>>shake? I always give a firm "stop it!!" with eye contact when I
>>correct but I think he needs more. Am I right or is this a phase
>>that he will get over by my repeating what I have been doing?
>>
>>
>>Jeff Nowak
>>
>
>I have a 10 Week old German Sheperd with the same "tendencies" as your
>pup. I have a 18 Month Daughter and sometmes he gets carried on and
>scrapes her. Although I have noticed he is much better now. What I do is
>when he is trying to bite me give hm an alternative like a toy or stick.
>He is much bette now. On the beginning In order to let my daughter play
>in the garden I gave it a slap in the nose, but I tended to keep this to
>a minimum. (I must have gave him 5 or 6 slaps). What I do now is tell him
>not to do it and if he continues I hold him, grabbing the skin on the
>side of his neck and tell hm that that is wrong at the same time I look
>at him in the eyes, once he stops nibbing and biting after a while
>Praise him and make a fuss, sometimes I give him a little bribe. If you
>or anyone knows of a better way please let me know. It is the first puppy
>I am raising and probably I am making lots of miostakes. I think the only
>things you keed is lots of patience, attention and love to the dog.
>
>
Just like with children, puppies need CONSISTENCY to learn their
manners. Of course, I am the sort who wholeheartedly disagrees with
the popular hand-slapping methods that many parents employ with their
children; I hold the same opinion with puppies. We don't need to slap
or hit any person or animal. Hand slapping, spanking etc. only teaches
children how to deal with anything you cant get to work your way right
away. Why shouldn't that also apply with dogs? Albeit, my puppy, Sonja,
is only 15 weeks old by now, but her nipping thing is almost gone
when it comes to me. I've never allowed her to even lazily mouth my hand
..every time she put her teeth on me, I consistently gave out a growly
"naaaaah", even frowning at her (she sees me..they look at your eyes)
and immediately substituted her rope toy or nylabone and praised her.
Yes...at first this was taking place a million times a day it seemed
but with consistency...and i mean complete consistency...it IS so cute
to have them mouthing but just think of your older dog..especially
Sonja..I'm guessing her to get up to 70 lbs...her jumping up and nipping
me and everyong else isnt going to be so cute and loveable then.
Now, I have also noticed that everyone in this world almost thinks its
cute...she stays close by me..and when interacting with other people,
I correct her the same way, and tell the people that they need to keep
up the same. She always tests out her mouthing on everyone else, but
that has calmed down considerably. Redirection and consistency have
been the key words to my method. I really think these two together
make a terrific training tool.
Suka and Sonja (Sonja is the pup) :)
SteepStuff
younger, he would mouth, nip, herd us to the door (tearing the back of our
sweatpants in the process). We tried all the techniques the Monks could
offer (sometimes they worked and sometimes they didn't), but nothing
stopped the behavior. Brother Peter from New Skete told me to substitute
something else for him to chew and eventually the behavior would cease. I
cvan't remember exactly when Dante stopped his mouthing, but he no longer
exhibits any of his previous "problems." Yes, I think it's a phase. Yes,
keep correcting and substituting and loving. Yes, it will go away!
April Quist
: My German Shepherd from New Skete is now one year old. When he was
I think this is a really important point. I think that as long as you
consitently do *something* when a puppy gets nippy, the puppy will almost
always grow out of the nipping when its permanent teeth come in and settle
in. I, personally, like the more "gentle" methods of yelping, substituting
something else to chew on, and, when those two don't work, isolation
when the puppy gets really wound up. Those have worked for my friends'
and my puppies. But again, *consistently* showing the puppy that you
don't like the nipping is THE most important thing, no matter how you
show it. (Please be gentle, though, and try to keep your anger out of
it. Remember - they *are* puppies.)
April with Levi and Caper, the Border Collie Boys
aqu...@netcom.com
Steven Szep
SteepStuff <steep...@aol.com> wrote:
>My German Shepherd from New Skete is now one year old. When he was
>younger, he would mouth, nip, herd us to the door (tearing the back of our
>sweatpants in the process). We tried all the techniques the Monks could
>offer (sometimes they worked and sometimes they didn't), but nothing
>stopped the behavior. Brother Peter from New Skete told me to substitute
>something else for him to chew and eventually the behavior would cease. I
>cvan't remember exactly when Dante stopped his mouthing, but he no longer
>exhibits any of his previous "problems." Yes, I think it's a phase. Yes,
>keep correcting and substituting and loving. Yes, it will go away!
I just took in a 9-month-old Rottie who was neglected by his owner.
He is very affectionate: he thinks he is a lap dog. Occasionally, he licks
my hand -- which I take as a sign of submission; sometimes, his teeth
rub my fingers, because he becomes excited. A simple "no" stops him from
continuing. I keep scratching his chin to show him that he is still loved.
--
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Steven Szep & Cashew & Memphis
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