Newfoundland With Prey Drive--serious problem

190 views
Skip to first unread message

Nessa

unread,
Jun 24, 2009, 1:58:21 PM6/24/09
to
I received this on a newf rescue board and asked for permission to
post it here.

Many of you are AWESOME with advice and interpretation. I'm game to
take back everything everyone says.

I had nothing to do with the original post but I can go to the poster
and get more info as needed.
*********************

I have a Newfoundland mix (possibly with black lab) that I
rescued as a small puppy, (at approximately 12 weeks of
age). He is now 2 1/2 years old.
We also have a Golden Retriever and cats. Up until
the end of January, we never had any problem. One day,
my husband and I went away for several hours and while we
were gone, "Nick" had grabbed one of my cats and
caused it to have a hernia. I work part-time at a vet
office, so I took him immediately to have it repaired.
Since that time, I have tried to be careful not to allow
Nick the opportunity to be alone with this particular
cat. Despite the fact that the other cats lay all
around the house and Nick never seems to bother them, I try
to put "Casper" in a separate room. However,
last Monday, my husband left for approx. 10 to 15 minutes
and when he returned, he knew that something had
happened. When he found Casper, he was
hyperventilating and breathing through his mouth and
obviously in shock. He rushed him into the vet office
and we got him calmed down with anti-shock med. and pain
med. , however, x-rays showed that he had 2 fractured ribs
and we found a couple puncture wounds, on his back.
This evening, my husband took both dogs for their daily
walk and Nick ran ahead of him. When he caught up to
him, he found him straddling a baby fawn, that he had just
killed (while the mother stood nearby and watched).
This is such unacceptable behavior that I am at a loss as to
what to do. This dog is perfect in every other
way. He has never been aggressive to any person, has
never had accidents in the house, we live near a road, which
he never attempts to go on. He doesn't lack
attention. We have an in-ground pool that he has total
access to, at all times, and he loves. I just
don't know what to do. My husband and I both
dearly love this dog, but do not feel that he can be
trusted. I just don't know what triggers his
aggressive actions. Any advise would be greatly
appreciated.
Thank you,
<delete owners name>

Janet Boss

unread,
Jun 24, 2009, 2:17:03 PM6/24/09
to
In article
<371a63a7-6d02-4390...@l32g2000vba.googlegroups.com>,
Nessa <ladybu...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> This evening, my husband took both dogs for their daily
> walk and Nick ran ahead of him. When he caught up to
> him, he found him straddling a baby fawn, that he had just
> killed (while the mother stood nearby and watched).
> This is such unacceptable behavior that I am at a loss as to
> what to do.

Why anyone lets a dog that far ahead of them that they can't see that
happening, is beyond me. "never goes near the road", "total access to
inground pool at all times" tells me that the dog decides things, not
the people - he's being given too many freedoms of choice. Sometimes he
may make the right one (not going in the road), but often the wrong one.

Obedience training and a shorter leash (figuratively, literally) are
necessary.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Rocky

unread,
Jun 24, 2009, 2:17:11 PM6/24/09
to
Nessa <ladybu...@gmail.com> said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

[Cats and deer]

I doubt that this aspect of prey drive can be reliably trained
out. Your acquaintances will have to be more careful in
managing the situation. Perhaps, when the dog grows past
adolescence, he'll be more (though not completely) trustworthy
with the household cats.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

Melinda Shore

unread,
Jun 24, 2009, 2:42:15 PM6/24/09
to
In article <Fri9C347D013103Eau...@rocky-dog.com>,

Rocky <3d...@rocky-dog.com> wrote:
>I doubt that this aspect of prey drive can be reliably trained
>out

If the dog is really meek you might be able to convince it
that it's going to DIE if it messes with the cat. But even
then it's probably not going to be trustworthy and you'd
need to supervise interactions, anyway.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

Judith Althouse

unread,
Jun 24, 2009, 7:44:16 PM6/24/09
to
Nessa said in part...
My husband and I both dearly love this dog but do not feel that he can

be trusted. I just don't know what triggers his aggressive actions.
__________________________________
Nessa

I understand that you posted this item on behalf of someone else from
another forum.

I am sure by now someone else has posted the same comment I am about to.

My suggestion is to manage the dog with with the "serious problem".

The owners have already had too many incidents and should know better
than to allow a dog with prey drive to run at large or ahead of them on
a walk. What if the dog's prey drive causes him to kill someone else's
animal or another animal within his home?

The bottom line is that I do not think the dog can be trained to not be
aggressive but whether I am right or wrong it is not very wise of them
to allow the dog around cats period and I would not completely rule out
an attack on the Golden that he shares a home with.

I have a dog that has exhibited dog aggression. I love him very much.
He is a good companion and very well behaved but when it comes to
attacking another dog I can not trust him so I do not allow him to be in
that position.

He was 2 years old before he exhibited that behavior. He had lived with
me for one year before showing any sign of dog aggression. It only took
one time for me to learn that I must manage him every minute of every
day just to be safe. It is a lot of work but he is worth it to me. The
people you posted about have had more than a clue. If they really care
about their dog they need to train him in obedience and manage him at
all times as not only could he kill or maim another animal but he could
end up dead himself.

Perhaps the OP should consult a behaviorist not for rehabilitation but
so they may have some understanding about prey drive. Of course there
are books on the subject. People like the owner of that dog never cease
to amaze me. I could understand how they were caught off guard the
first time when their cat was attacked but it shouldn't have been
allowed to happen again.

Feel free to pass my post on to the owners of that dog if you think it
would be of help. I wish them well.


Be Free.....Judy

Jerry Howe - The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard <{}'; ~ ) >

unread,
Jul 1, 2009, 6:55:01 PM7/1/09
to
HOWEDY judith you pathetic miserable stinkin rotten
lyin animal an child abusin punk thug coward active
acute chronic life long incurable mental case,

"Judith Althouse" <judyal...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:29553-4A4...@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net...


> Nessa said in part...
> My husband and I both dearly love this dog but do not feel that he can
> be trusted. I just don't know what triggers his aggressive actions.
> __________________________________
> Nessa

BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!

ALL aggression is FEAR; ALL FEAR is CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.

> I understand that you posted this item on behalf of
> someone else from another forum.

"Seem" there AIN'T NONE of you MENTAL CASES got nodoGdameneD
ADVICE for nessa's heelpless PAL from the newfie forums??

SHAAAZZZAAAMMM???

> I am sure by now someone else has posted the same comment I am about to.

You mean, as matty sez: 'THE DOG CAN'T BE TRAINED', judith?

OR did you mean as malinda an janet sez: 'HURT IT till it THINKS
IT'S GONNA DIE', accordin to diddler's INSTRUCTIONS?

> My suggestion is to manage the dog with with the "serious problem".

That so, judith, based on your own SUCCESS "trainin" your dog relying
upon the EXXXPERTEASE of your HERO: "z dog wheesperer"??

"MANAGEMENT ALWAYS FAILS":

Re: Dog Whisperer Week on National Geographic
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2006


"Handsome Jack Morrison" <handsomejackmorri...@gmail.com>
wrote in message news:i222d25gibj3sdv85...@4ax.com...


Well, again, "shit" happens.


It's possible to avoid "shit" from happening altogether,
by never doing anything, but that doesn't help dogs very
much, does it?


But as some folks are wont to say: "Management
always fails."


It'll fail for you one day, too. And I bet it already
has, probably many times, in fact.


The more dogs you try to manage, the more
things you try to do, the more times it'll fail.


Because I've see too much "shit" actually happen,
and know that it's impossible to totally prevent.


"Shit" has happened a number of times just today, at
my place, because someone simply forgot to do what
he was supposed to do. He's done it correctly, oh,
maybe a thousand times now, but today he didn't, and
"shit" happened.


Actually, you should feel pretty good about the fact "
that he actually shows "shit" happening on his show.


--------------

lying frosty dahl wrote:


"My behaviorist friend says, however, that "management
always fails." "my aggression-specialist friend has a maxim:
"management always fails."

--------------------


SEE?

> The owners have already had too many incidents

PERHAPS THAT'S on accHOWENTA they DON'T KNOW HOWE
to pupperly raise, handle an train their doggy, eh, judith??

> and should know better than to allow a dog with prey drive to run
> at large or ahead of them on a walk. What if the dog's prey drive
> causes him to kill someone else's animal or another animal within
> his home?

You ever heard of TRAININ, judith?

DESPITE that your MAGGOT PALS don't know HOWE to pupperly
raise handle an train their own dogs don't mean *you* gotta be the
SAME KINDA IGNORAMEHOWES spHOWETIN BUNK just to keep
other folks from LEARNIN HOWE to pupperly handle their dogs <{}: ~ ( >

> The bottom line is that I do not think the dog can be trained

"Seem" trainin is mostly LUCK, eh, judith?

> to not be aggressive

That's curiHOWES, judith; ALL temperament and behavior
problems are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING therefore they
CAN BE EXXXTINGUISHED NEARLY INSTANTLY simply
by DOIN EVERY THING EXXXACTLY PRECISELY OPPOSITE
of HOWE *you* an your lyin animal murderin MENTAL CASE
PALS prefer <{}: ~ ( >

> but whether I am right or wrong it is not very wise
> of them to allow the dog around cats period

Sez you, judith? You're a lyin dog abusin MENTAL CASE.

You CAME HERE for the SAME PROBLEM, if you remember.

If you DON'T REMEMBER, judith, I got MOST of your own
POSTED CASE HISTORY below for your edification <{}'; ~ ) >

> and I would not completely rule out an attack on
> the Golden that he shares a home with.

Of curse not~! AGGRESSION IS CAUSED BY FORCED CON-TROLL.

Well then, judith, looks like he ain't got the OPTION of bannishing
his dog to the backyard like HOWE you done to your own FEAR
AGGRESSIVE HYPERACTIVE HOWETA CON-TROLL dog <{}: ~ ( >

> I have a dog that has exhibited dog aggression.

Yeah. You CAME HERE to GET PERMISSION to MURDER IT.

> I love him very much.

INDEED?

> He is a good companion and very well behaved but when it comes to
> attacking another dog I can not trust him so I do not allow him to be in
> that position.

On accHOWENT you DON'T KNOW HOWE to pupperly handle your dog.

> He was 2 years old before he exhibited that behavior.

YOU CAUSED HIS FEAR AGGRESSION by JERKIN CHOKIN
SHOCKIN an SURGICALLY SEXUALLY MUTILATIN IT <{}: ~ ( >

> He had lived with me for one year before showing
> any sign of dog aggression.

An then it just happened... all on it's own <{}: ~ ( >

> It only took one time for me to learn that I must manage him
> every minute of every day just to be safe. It is a lot of work
> but he is worth it to me.

You're a IDIOT, judith <{}: ~ ( >

> The people you posted about have had more than a clue.

That so, judith? They got the SAME INFORMATION YOU GOT.

> If they really care about their dog they need to train him in obedience

It's your INSANE NAZI OBEDIENCE TRAININ
that CAUSES FEAR AGGRESSION <{}: ~ ( >

HERE'S HOWE COME:

Here's janet's REAL LIFE IN PERSON "student" paul:

#2 - 6/05/07
>> When I was training him under Janet's supervision I was
>> instructed to give it a ? firm yank as a correction.
>
> I advised you to use a prong collar, not give firm
> yanks on a chain choke collar. I hate the things.
>
>> She was able to get his attention with just a quick tug, but I had to
>> yank on it hard enough to lift him off his feet to get him to respond.

>> Looking back now, I think it was based on his fear, which he had for her
>> (as an unknown), but not for me (whom he had learned to trust).
>
> He wasn't afraid of me. He knew I was a confident trainer.
> Fear has no place in dog training, as I told you THEN.

> Janet.

It seems to me that applying stern corrections, by
popping a choker chain, prong collar, or whatever,
is a way to ensure compliance by instilling a fear
of further punishment.

Sure, if it is administered very consistently
by a confident trainer, the dog soon learns
to obey. There was no positive reinforcement,
so what remains is negative.

Also, I recall the time you were going to show me
how I could get Muttley to take his rawhide treat
from me without lunging for it. When you offered
it to him, he refused to take it. This IMHO is likely
a fear behavior.

Things have changed a lot since then, and I have
learned a lot, and Muttley has settled down quite
a bit. I probably still give him too much freedom
to think on his own, but that's just my way of
doing things, and that's probably not going to
change much. He may never win an obedience
medal, but I don't think he is dangerously out
of control, either.

Paul and Muttley

----------------------------

HERE'S HOWE COME:

Subject: Re: redirected aggression
Date: 4/11/07

"Janet Boss" <ja...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> wrote in message
news:janet-730AB8....@news.individual.net...

It seems I have been dealing with this a bit lately.
Dog to dog and dog to person,, with dogs who are
obviously overstimulated by what's in front of them.

What's in front of them varies from people at the door
to dogs in their path or directly in their face. The dogs
in question all have very poor self control.

I have dog(s) with not-so-great-natural self control,
so it's something we constantly work on. We don't
have redirected stuff going on, because we have
enough obedience to avoid it.

While I know that's the big answer for the dogs in
question as well, I'm curious what things people have
found useful to redirect/focus/gain attention from
drivey dogs or just very distracted of over-the-top dogs.

We're having success with my recommendations, but I'm
always open to something novel that may be the hot ticket.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

----------------------

SEE??

BWEEEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA~!~!~!

AND THAT'S HOWE COME you AIN'T GOT THE
INTELLECT
To HOWEtwit The Cunnin Of The Domestic
Puppy Dog Or Kitty Kat...

UNLESS THEY'RE DEAD <{}: ~ ( >

> and manage him at all times as not only could he kill or
> maim another animal but he could end up dead himself.

You pullin the FEAR card again, judith?

> Perhaps the OP should consult a behaviorist not for rehabilitation

You mean on accHOWENTA DOGS CAN'T BE TRAINED, judith?

> but so they may have some understanding about prey drive.

Oh, you mean, LIKE THIS, judith?:

Date: 5/22/03 11:24:35 PM

From: p...@cfl.rr.com
To: Witsend...@aol.com

Well, let me tell you, your Wits' End
Dog Training Method works.


My dog, Dasie, Loves to chase chameleons
around the barbecue on the patio. I
used this system on four different occasions.


When she went out today, she looked
everywhere else but the barbecue.
Amazing, just amazing.


I will write to Amanda about the video.


I am really excited to learn more, and
understand. Maybe just a little reassurance
that I am going about it the right way.


Thanks again
Paul

----------------------

AND LIKE THIS:

Subject: Chasing squirrels


From: lindalee
Date: Sat, Jan 21 2006 10:34 pm
Email: "lindalee" <llindaleedan...@msn.com>
Groups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior


I have not posted to the group for awhile but want
to share my success of teaching my dog Sunshine,
who has a very high prey drive, to not go after
squirrels when on a walk.


It took a few trials but he can now walk right
past squirrels running up a tree or in a yard.


Using Jerry Howe's approach I used a sound to get his
attention when he saw a squirrel and then praised him
and kept on walking past the squirrel.


Where we live in Michigan we lots of squirrels and he
was always wanting to chase them up a tree. Jerry's
approach of sound and praise really works.


I think the people who discount his methods have never
tried the method because it works everytine. Sometimes
it takes a little practice to get the sound from different
directions but I was able to change Sunshine's behavior in
just a week after we moved back to Michigan.


Sunshine is a very sensitive dog so any physical corrections
just won't work but using sound and praise he is a really
great dog who opens doors, picks up things I drop, and and
helps me a lot.


If you have a behavior problem with your dog get a
copy of Jerrry's manual and solve your problem!


----------

> Of course there are books on the subject.

That so, judith?

You know of any books that TEACH you dog lovers HOWE to
pupperly raise handle an train your dogs not to FEAR bein jerked
an choked an shocked for NORMAL NATURAL INNATE INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE
BEHAVIORS, judith?

> People like the owner of that dog never cease to amaze me.

That so, judith? PERHAPS you AIN'T BEEN READIN MY FORUMS?

> I could understand how they were caught off guard the first time
> when their cat was attacked but it shouldn't have been allowed to
> happen again.

Oh, perhaps the BEHAVIORIST will EXXXPLAIN it for you, eh, judith?

> Feel free to pass my post on to the owners of that dog

You didn't give nodoGdameneD ADVICE, remember, judith?

> if you think it would be of help.

ALL you done was attempt to inspire FEAR and MISUNDERSTANDING.

> I wish them well.

That so, judith?

> Be Free.....Judy

Judith Althouse wrote:

> Hello Cecil,


> Add me to the list that suggests choke chain collars for obedience
> training.

INDEED? You mean the dog abusing MENTAL CASES, judith.


> May I also suggest that you beware of leaving a dog unattended
> with a choke chain on....


On accHOWENT of you only want IT to CHOKE when you jerk an choke him.


> especially if there is a chance that they could get caught in a fence


Trying to ESCAPE.


> or choked in some manner....


Happens all the time, judith.


> it is rare


No it ain't, judith.


> but it can happen especially wirh 2 new dogs in the house.


He'll need to leave the leash an collar on his dog to
CORRECT his dog when company arrives, judith.


> If they only go out on a leash,,,,


THAT'S when his dog attacks other dogs.


> no problem..


THAT'S HIS PROBLEM, judith.


> Good Luck with your new dogs.


Dog trainin AIN'T LUCK, dog abuser.


> Be Free,


With your dog on a choke collar.


> Judy


HOWEDY Judith,


Judith Althouse wrote:
> Thumbs up or Thumbs down???


the ces is a dog abusin punk thug coward, a Nazi / Fascist.


> I love him.


DECENT PEOPLE DO NOT POST HERE abHOWETS, Judith.


> He is my idol, my hero, my guru.


He's a dog abuser, a punk and a coward.


> i want to be him when I grow up :)


Well then, you're too stupid to live so long.


> so, whadda ya say do ya like him or not?


Your own dogs' behavior problems are reflected in
your mentor's insidiHOWES methods:


> I say Thumbs UP!!!!!


Shove 'm both up your arse an walk on your elbows.


> Be Free,


That's curiHOWES, comin from a Nazi.


> Judy


Here's a little of your own posted case history and
a couple of REVIEWS of the ces in action:


Judith Althouse wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> I read thru all of the posts just knowing that someone else
> had already addressed my problems but if so I overlooked it.


The QUESTION was "alpha dogs".

The PROBLEM is FEAR AGGRESSION in
a ALPHA BITCH HOWEsHOWEld <{): ~ ) >


> I have had 2 of my dogs since they were a year old.
> They are now 13 and 14.


The average lifespan of abused dogs here is 9-10 years old.


> The older one a spayed female Border Collie mix. The 13
> year old a Black Lab, 15 months ago I introduced a year
> old Pit Bul/Lab mix to the pack.


NO PROBLEMO.


> He is a neutered male approx 2 years old now....


Surgical sexual mutilation CAUSES insecurity and aggression.


> Everything has been rolling right along.


INDEED.


> Several months ago another Pit Bull joined the family
> although he has remained outside. He is not neutered
> yet and though he is very mellow I just feel like I am
> pushing my luck to introduce him to the household.


Dog trainin AIN'T LUCK. "Luck is for SUCKERS,"
The Puppy Wizard's DADDY <{}; ~ ) >


> He is not housebroken


That's IDIOCY. HOWEsbreakin is INSTINCTIVE at four weeks
of age. It's a dog's most imperative terrortorial imperative after
SURVIVAL. There's ONLY TWO *(2) reasons HOWE COME a
dog would have HOWEsbreakin problems. AnyWON who got a
dog with HOWEsbreakin problems got EITHER a SICK DOG OR
a UNHAPPY DOG <{): ~ ( >

Subject: The Dog Whisperer


Thumbs up or Thumbs down??? I love him. He is my idol,
my hero, my guru. i want to be him when I grow up :) so,
whadda ya say do ya like him or not?


I say Thumbs UP!!!!!


Be Free,
Judy

> and most likely has spent his life on a chain.


That's IRRELEVENT.


> Ok here is the problem...


Subject: The Dog Whisperer

Thumbs up or Thumbs down??? I love him. He is my idol,
my hero, my guru. i want to be him when I grow up :) so,
whadda ya say do ya like him or not?


I say Thumbs UP!!!!!


Be Free,
Judy

> Jubal Early the Pit Bull/Lab mix recently attacked
> Buck (my old Lab) 3 times in one day.


Dogs ONLY attack when they're AFRAID. ALL AGGRESSION
IS FEAR. ALL FEAR is CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.

LIKE THIS:


Subject: The Dog Whisperer


Thumbs up or Thumbs down??? I love him. He is my idol,
my hero, my guru. i want to be him when I grow up :) so,
whadda ya say do ya like him or not?


I say Thumbs UP!!!!!


Be Free,
Judy

> It was not the most vicious attacks I have ever seen but
> could have easily escalated. Buck came out of it with a
> scrape on his ear. Buck just laid around for a day. I
> am not sure if it was because he was sore or because he
> was broken. Of course I have kept Jubal Early seperated
> or on a leash since then.


Seems with all your "KNOWLEDGE" learned from the ces,
you shouldn't have this problem. Your dogs are not
"calm and assertive" they're AFRAID, on accHOWENT of
you're a DOG ABSUER, not a calm assertive leader, but
a NAZI, like the ces. OtherWIZE, your dogs would be
FRIENDLY and SAFE and SECURE.

HOWEver, THEY AIN'T.

> Buck is definitely afraid of Jubal,


Well then, what's THAT say to your "CALM ASSERTIVE" energy?

Subject: The Dog Whisperer


Thumbs up or Thumbs down??? I love him. He is my idol,
my hero, my guru. i want to be him when I grow up :) so,
whadda ya say do ya like him or not?


I say Thumbs UP!!!!!


Be Free,
Judy

> the sound of him makes Buck anxious.


Well then, perhaps you should practice the ces's "SECRET S-HOWEND",
eh Judith? You know, the WON the ces makes when he got to assert
his calm assertive energy? You know, when he grabs the victim by
his throat an tells IT to be CALM and ASSERTIVE and IT WON'T GET
CHOKED someMOORE <{}; ~ ) >


> Prior to this incident Jubal E steered clear of Buck if
> a toy would roll over to Buck he would grab the toy and
> run for his life, even jump over the couch at times to
> avoid passing Buck in a close hall way.


What happened to your "CALM ASSERTIVE ENERGY", Judith?


> I must admit to having made some mistakes with Jubal E.


You mean, LIKE THIS?:

Subject: The Dog Whisperer


Thumbs up or Thumbs down??? I love him. He is my idol,
my hero, my guru. i want to be him when I grow up :) so,
whadda ya say do ya like him or not?


I say Thumbs UP!!!!!


Be Free,
Judy

> He is young and active and he is fun to play with
> plus I did not have complete control of his handling.


You mean you couldn't jerk and choke IT and run IT arHOWEND
the city for an HOWER twice a day as INSTRUCTED by the ces?


> Suffice it to say Jubal was allowed to run the show.


You mean, he was ALPHA? The so called "ALPHA" is ALWAYS
the MOST FEARFUL, like the alpha trainer, Judith. THAT'S
HOWE COME the ces is a COWARD, Judith. ONLY A COWARD would
do what he does to dogs and try to get HOWET callin NAZISM,
dog trainin.

Subject: The Dog Whisperer


Thumbs up or Thumbs down??? I love him. He is my idol,
my hero, my guru. i want to be him when I grow up :) so,
whadda ya say do ya like him or not?


I say Thumbs UP!!!!!


Be Free,
Judy

> He became the Pack Leader over humans and dogs alike.


That's sheer idiocy.


> My theory is that Jubal has just taken over as the Alpha Dog.


You mean he's HOWETA CON-TROLL, Judith? PERHAPS it's your
THEORY that's caused your dog behavior problems? PERHAPS
if you worked within ACCEPTED SCIENTIFIC BEHAVIOR SCIENCE
you wouldn't be GUSSIN HOWE COME your dog is AFRAID enough
to attack his HOWEsmate UNDER YOUR CON-TROLL, Judith?


> The part I do NOT understand is why Jubal Early is still
> on the attack since Buck is not offering any opposition.


Oh, THAT'S on accHOWENT of your dog is AFRAID, Judith.

HERE'S HOWE COME YOUR DOG IS AFRAID, Judith:


Subject: The Dog Whisperer


Thumbs up or Thumbs down??? I love him. He is my idol,
my hero, my guru. i want to be him when I grow up :) so,
whadda ya say do ya like him or not?


I say Thumbs UP!!!!!


Be Free,
Judy

> I can't say he is submissive.


RIGHT. It's SURVIVAL INSTINCT. You've frightened your dog to death.


> He doesn't get a chance to be.


Naaaah? DO TELL???

Subject: The Dog Whisperer


Thumbs up or Thumbs down??? I love him. He is my idol,
my hero, my guru. i want to be him when I grow up :) so,
whadda ya say do ya like him or not?


I say Thumbs UP!!!!!


Be Free,
Judy

> Terrified would be more like it....


INDEED? Whatever happened to your "CALM ASSERTIVE ENERGY", Judith?


> I have gone over the incidents a million times


ALL AGGRESSION IS FEAR, Judith. The SAME FEAR which fuels
you and your Nazi punk thug coward active acute chronic
long term incurable mental case pals who jerk choke shock
bribe crate intimidate surgically sexually mutilate and
murder innocent defenseless dumb critters <{): ~ ( >

THAT'S HOWE COME DECENT PEOPLE DO NOT POST HERE abHOWETS, Judith.

> and for the life of me I cannot put my finger on
> anything in particular triggering the incident...


Subject: The Dog Whisperer

Thumbs up or Thumbs down??? I love him. He is my idol,
my hero, my guru. i want to be him when I grow up :) so,
whadda ya say do ya like him or not?


I say Thumbs UP!!!!!


Be Free,
Judy

> There was a time when Lady (my oldest dog was the Alpha dog


You mean when she was most afraid.


> and controlled Buck) until a few years ago and
> she gracefully took a back seat to him.


That's curiHOWES. Males in nature ALWAYS defer to the female,
it's SURVIVAL INSTINCT at it's beast, dog lovers <{): ~ ) >


> Somebody, please help?


Here ya go, Judith:

Subject: The Dog Whisperer


Thumbs up or Thumbs down??? I love him. He is my idol,
my hero, my guru. i want to be him when I grow up :) so,
whadda ya say do ya like him or not?


I say Thumbs UP!!!!!


Be Free,
Judy

> Do you think things will ever settle down here?


All depends. Do you want to continue to be an abuser?


> All of my dogs are rescued dogs that just came to me.


Yeah. Rescued.


> As much as I love the 2 new additions. I will not see
> my poor old Dog Buck be terrified and hurt by anyone.


You mean, like HOWE he HAS BEEN, despite your "CALM ASSERTIVE" energy?


> You can imagine what it is like, constantly
> shuffling dogs and fearing disaster.


Yeah. It'd be NORMAL for a incompetent dog abusin coward.


> This has all hapened a couple of days ago and I am exhausted.


Naaah?


> I am sorry to be so wordy, but I was trying to give you
> the straight scoop so hopefully someone could offer some
> advice.


Yeah? Then HOWE COME you "OVERLOOKED" your ALPHALPHA THEORY PROBLEM?


> I have always had dogs.


Let's get sumpthin straight, dog abuser. DECENT PEOPLE DO NOT
POST HERE abHOWETS. LIARS DOG ABSUERS COWARDS and PATHETIC
LYING DOG ABUSING PUNK THUG COWARD ACTIVE ACUTE CHRONIC LONG
TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES post here when they want PERMISSION
to HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER their own innocent defenseless
dumb critters, Judith.

HOWE COME DO YOU WANT TO HURT YOUR DOGS, Judith?

> I have owned a show dog, obedience dogs, (Dobermans)


Oh, so you've already got a very long case history
of animal abuse and alphalphal dysfunction thinkin.


> so I am not a novice to the dog world.


But you're lookin for advice to HURT your dog.


> Somebody please HELP us...


No Judith, you need to heelp yourself.


> Thanks for reading this.....


You're a victim of abuse, as are your children and dogs.


> Be Free,


ONLY PARENTS FEAR and HATE The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin
Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And
Horsey Wizard even MOORE than the professional trainers,
university behaviorists and veterinary malpracticioners whom
HE has IDENTIFIED EXXXPOSED and DISCREDITED <{) ; ~ ) >


> Judy


Oprah Winfrey's Dog Problems

Lisa Radosta -Huntley DVM
Resident, Behavioral Medicine
Matthew J. Ryan Veterinary Hospital of the
University of Pennsylvania


I am sorry to report that Cesar Millan is going to be featured
on an upcoming episode of Oprah
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/goss...-262036c.html).


Pretty much everything that EVER appears on Oprah becomes HUGE,
so I am very disheartened to say the least. Best case scenario
is that this appearance puts him on the radar of the positive
dog training, animal welfare, and/or animal rights communities
resulting in a critical mass of people expressing their opposition
to his methods.


Unfortunately, in the U.S., even bad press winds up being
good press somehow, so it will be interesting to see how
this plays out.


Lisa Radosta -Huntley DVM
Resident, Behavioral Medicine
Matthew J. Ryan Veterinary Hospital of the
University of Pennsylvania Oprah link -


http://www.oprah.com/email/tows/tows...uestid=3240019


Please do whatever you can...


Pat Miller


Hi,


This message was originally sent to me by Kathy Kruger. I am
forwarding it because if we don't act now, Cesar Millan and
his methods will be household names by Monday afternoon at 5 pm.


Anyone who is interested, please pass this on to your own list
serves and act quickly. I have already emailed and the letter
that we sent to National Geographic is being overnight Fed Ex'd.


Lisa


__________________


Cesar's Way:


The Natural, Everyday Guide to Understanding
& Correcting Common Dog Problems


By Cesar Millan, with Melissa Jo Peltier
Harmony Books, 320 pp., 2006; $24.95


Reviewed by Pat Miller for The Bark


Cesar Millan Book


Almost every dog-training book has something to offer the
discerning reader, and Cesar's Way is no exception. The
book's strength is as an autobiography of National Geographic's
TV dog-trainer star, Cesar Millan. If you're curious about
how Millan got where he is today, this book will tell you.


If you're looking for significant help training your dog,
however, look elsewhere.


Many in the behavioral science community view the tenets-
and consequences- of Cesar's "way" with trepidation.


In an interview published in the New York Times in February
of this year, Dr. Nicolas Dodman, director of the Animal
Behavior Clinic at Tufts University 's Cummings School of
Veterinary Medicine, observed, "My College thinks it is a
travesty.


We've written to National Geographic Channel and told them
they have put dog training back 20 years."


Millan provides little in terms of concrete training information,
offering instead broad generalizations about projecting "calm-
assertive energy"-a Millan catch phrase-and instilling "calm,
submissive energy" in your dog.


For example, in Chapter 8, he offers "Simple Tips for Living
Happily with Your Dog." His "Rules of the House" include:


"Wake up on your terms, not his... condition him to get
quietly off the bed if he wakes before you do."


"Don't allow possessiveness over toys and food!"


"Don't allow out-of-control barking."


Good advice, perhaps, but, nowhere in the book does he
explain how to accomplish these things, other than by
using calm-assertive energy.


Millan is nothing if not confident. He admits to his "
politically incorrect" reliance on old-fashioned dominance
theory, stating, "To dogs, there are only two positions in
a relationship: leader and follower.


Dominant and submissive.


It's either black or white."


He even has the hubris to bemoan the unwillingness of
authorities to allow him to rehabilitate Hera, one of
the two notorious Presa Canario dogs who killed Diane
Whipple in the hallway of her San Francisco apartment
building.


In Millan's world, every behavior problem is addressed in
terms of dominance and submission. He even uses the alpha
roll as part of his "dominance ritual"; this technique-
forcibly rolling a dog on his side or back and holding him
there-is considered by many to be a dangerous practice based
on faulty interpretation of wolf behavior.


It long ago fell into disfavor with trainers whose methods
are based on the science of behavior and learning.


Where Millan talks about "energy," science-based trainers
talk about behavior, and generally agree that status in
social groups is fluid and contextual, not black or white.


Truly effective and long-term success in behavior modification
requires a far more studied and complex approach than simply
asserting dominance.


Interpretation of dog body language diverges just as widely.


Millan refers in his book to Kane, a Great Dane who appeared on
his TV show who was afraid of slick linoleum floors. Millan claims
that with less than 30 minutes of his calm, assertive influence,
Kane was striding confidently down the slick hallway.


Every trainer I know who has watched that segment notes the
dog's post-Millan, obvious and ongoing stress signals: head
and tail lowered, hugging the wall, panting.


Millan touts the benefits of exercise in modifying dog behavior,
a concept I heartily endorse. However, his book starts with a
description of the four-hour exercise session he engages in with
his pack of dogs every morning in the Santa Monica Mountains of
Southern California, followed by afternoons spent rollerblading
with those same dogs, 10 at a time, on the streets around his
training center.


One of the tenets of a successful training program is that it
gives the dog owner tools he or she can apply. How many dog
owners can spend six hours a day exercising their dogs?


How many can project "calm-assertive energy"? The danger of
Cesar's Way is that it assures owners that quick fixes and
easy answers lie in the hands of a smiling man with the elusive
calm-assertive energy.


In fact, answers are better found in the beautiful complexity
of life, where solutions are often not quick and easy, but are
solidly built on a sturdy foundation and an understanding of
how behavior really works.


Recommended Reading from 4Paws University


A Tough-Love Dog Whisperer Spurs Some Yelps


Producer Sues TV's Dog Whisperer


Cesar's Way:


The Natural, Everyday Guide to Understanding
and Correcting Common Dog Problems


Amazon.com


"Whisper" softly and carry a big stick?!,


May 8, 2006


Reviewer: Sympawtico Dog Training, LLC -


I recently compiled a list of suggested reading materials
for my dog training clients. Cesar's Way is not on it.


His methods are based on out-dated and scientifically unfounded
theories that too often place the trainer at odds with their dog,
compromising the safety of both - not to mention eroding the dog-
human bond.


With all of the other good books on positive reinforcement dog
training on the market, the serious student will do far better
to spend their money elsewhere. Don't settle for "whispering";
look to behaviorists and trainers who loudly and clearly offer
sound advice based on good understanding of learning theory
and behavior science: Karen Pryor, Patricia McConnell, Jean
Donaldson, Pat Miller.


Their methods work, they foster communication and cooperation
between the species - and they won't harm you or your dog.


===============


Nothing new or useful,
May 7, 2006
Reviewer: joyousdog


Milan's methods may seem new and revolutionary to anyone
who has no experience in the world of dogs, but they are
not. In fact, most have long-since been deserted by dog
trainers who understand how learning really happens.


It is as if someone had achieved great popularity pushing
a fabulous new invention called the typewriter, embracing
the long-dead theory that "cold" mothers cause autism in
their children, or advocating smacking kindergarten kids
over the knuckles with a ruler as a magical way to teach
them the alphabet.


Nothing about it seems so horrible, to someone who is innocent
of the history of the subject at hand, and it is neatly packaged
to seem like a method. But a little knowledge easily shows the
flaws in it.


His calm, controlled demeanor is simply common sense to anyone
who works with animals, or, for that matter, anyone who teaches
anything. You could probably get that advice from a local trainer
in your town, or even an excellent parent or elementary school
teacher.


And, many trainers agree that exercise is good for dogs -
- that's hardly revolutionary. However, it is not a magical
cure-all for difficult dogs.


The rest of what he advocates, although it may seem to have
a philosophy and some organization, is just a mish-mash of
techniques with little logic behind them.


He has his set routines, and often does not notice that things
like "flooding" -- forcing a dog into a situation that it fears -
- is shutting it down with stress, not calming it down and easing
its fear.


The dog-human relationship need not include dominance rituals -
- dogs know we are not dogs. The "be alpha" stuff came from a
small bit of research on wolves, decades ago, that has long
since been supplanted, and has little bearing on pet dogs.


Life has made us the leaders -- we have control of the doors,
the food, the car, the toys, and everything else a dog wants -
- it is quite easy to change dogs' behavior, as long as we use
those things.


Our larger brains and some patience are the best tools to
train a dog. Actions like controlling the environment to
keep a dog out of trouble, figuring out what it finds
rewarding, and reinforcing behaviors you do want, are far
more effective, pleasant, and likely to build a good
relationship than Milan's techniques.


Check out the works of Karen Pryor, Pat Miller or Melissa
Alexander for better ideas about teaching, and Suzanne
Clothier, Ray and Lorna Coppinger, Jean Donaldson, or
Patricia McConnell for better insight into dogs. For
free advice, try the Clickersolutions.com site.


Dogs can learn self-control, voluntary compliance with our
wishes -- they need not be dominated, just taught. I want
my dogs actions to say "I'll do that!" not "I give up."


===================


A sad day in dog land...,
May 6, 2006


Reviewer: Barbara Davis "BADDogsInc" (Corona, CA)


If you want to take a ride to the 70s in a time machine, this
is the vehicle for you. Do your dog a favor, though, and leave
him right where he is, since Millan's 'philosophy' of dog/human
relationship management really won't be doing him much good.


If you're a big fan of the old school's outmoded alpha rolls,
or truly believe your dog is trying to dominate you while he's
cruising the counter looking for cookies, then you'll probably
enjoy this book a great deal.


If you do choose to buy this, you'll get a lot of the author's
biography and his own personal 'science' (that bears little or
no resemblance to any accepted science in the realms of learning
theory, dog training or behavior).


What you WON'T get is much information on dog training, or much
useful advice on how to fix any kind of dog behavior or dog/human
relationship problems.


Complex issues like separation anxiety rate a couple of paragraphs,
heavily vested in making sure the dog is exercised to exhaustion at
all times.


While I'm sure a dog that's physically depleted all the time is
much easier to handle, I'm not sure how many of us actually have
the ability to incorporate 6 hours of daily strenuous dog exercise
into our already crowded lives.


And besides, what role does an exhausted, 4-legged
zombie fill in your family circle?


The human/dog bond has evolved for thousands of years as a
richly textured relationship deserving of a great deal more
consideration than Millan's 'fast-food' analysis would suggest.


Your money would be better spent elsewhere...


=============


Customer Reviews


Depends on what you want
July 7, 2006


Reviewer: Dog Owner (Lake Mary, FL USA)


If you want to see Mr. Milan demonstrate his personal rapport
with animals, this DVD will fill the bill. However, if you are
seeking advice and instruction on how to overcome aggression
in your pet, this DVD will not be of much help.


The DVD is really nothing but an infommercial praising Mr.
Milan's talents. I seriously doubt that the dogs he works
with in the DVD maintain their non-aggressive behavior after
he leaves.


The strategies he uses, such as having the aggressive dog
walk beside his non-aggressive pack dog, are not practical
for the average dog owner.


If someone were going to hire Mr. Milan as a personal dog
trainer, this item would certainly serve as a recommendation,
but it is woefully lacking as step-by-step instruction on how
to overcome aggression in a dog.


-------------------------


Jerry Howe - The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard <{}'; ~ ) >

unread,
Jul 1, 2009, 7:08:17 PM7/1/09
to

"Nessa" <ladybu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:371a63a7-6d02-4390...@l32g2000vba.googlegroups.com...

>I received this on a newf rescue board and asked for permission to
> post it here.
>
> Many of you are AWESOME with advice and interpretation.

Oh, INDEEDY <{}'; ~ ) >

> I'm game to take back everything everyone says.

You mean all their EXXXPERTEASE?

> I had nothing to do with the original post but I can go
> to the poster and get more info as needed.

THAT SO?

> *********************

You think you'd tell her THIS?:

From: BNTDO...@aol.com
To: jho...@bellsouth.net
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002
Subject: Re: THANKS ALISON! - "Owners Should Always

Be Given The Cold, Hard Facts: They Should NEVER FEEL
GUILTY For Having An Aggressive Dog Euthanized."

Dear Jerry,

It's Kay here. I don't know who these people are that
maligning you and your training manual but tell them
from me that it does work.

Hunter is just doing so well even the people who
advocated putting him down are impressed with him.

I even started using it with the neighbor's dog. I went over
there to help her cut his nails. She started yelling at him
for growling at me. I told her to tell him what a good boy he
is instead. Lo and behold he stopped growling and I could
do his nails. All 4 feet.

My dog Hunter was trained with the old jerk and pull method
and my other dog was trained with treats. Hunter has gotten
his enthusiasm back for his training and I couldn't be more
pleased.

He even tried to kiss a child the other day.

Major break through.

This is the dog that a few months ago tried to eat the kids
through the fence. I can now take him in the car with me
again without him trying to chase cars through the windshield.

So Jerry tell these people that the first rule of dog training
is Do No Harm.

The 2nd rule is whatever works without breaking the first rule.

Aggressive dogs don't need to be put down.

Hunter was diagnosed aggressive and he is going
to stay alive and by my side where he belongs.

Thank you so much.

Kay

========================

Subject : The Wits end dog training method - THANK YOU!

Dear Jerry

I have just got to thank you so very much.

I had a gutful of the sadistic crap that gets dished out as
"dog training", I read a bunch of books that just seemed wrong
and then I started trawling the web and found it was worse -
bulletin boards full of people, advocates of pin-down techniques
and shock collars.

I just couldn't believe it. Some of the methods the so called
"professionals" were championing turned my stomach and in the
absence of a voice of reason many people seemed to be taking
the advice. Was this the only way to ever train my dog?

Many of the methods thankfully I never had the stomach to
even try, it all just seemed like constantly pushing against
a resisting force.

Then I stumbled across a post from the puppy wizard - it
was honestly like an epiphany for me. In an instant the
bullshit facade that holds together these peoples brand
of "logic" just crumble away, suddenly I saw very clearly
indeed.

I then read many of your posts and eventually
after some searching found the manual.

I read it and felt like a weight had been lifted.

Now me and my furry best friend have found our
path, one that we both seem very happy with.

We are both very much in debt to your kindness
and compassionate wisdom.

I think it was Gandhi who said that "you can be in a minority
of one, but the truth is still the truth". These words seemed
so appropriate after finding your methods in a sea of countless
posts promoting repetitively violent and abusive training.

On top of that I felt a little of the pioneering spirit of the
internet, like someone had reached out across a great distance,
put a hand on my shoulder and said.."it's cool, just love your
dog, listen to him".

Thank You, over and over Thank You! You have given me and a
young and very enthusiastic Border Collie a way to a much better
life together.

Long live the Puppy Wizard!

Cornwall UK

PS - Keep up the good work, keep telling it HOWE it really is.

--------------------------


Lauren wrote:


Everything Jerry does is positive reinforcement. In fact, a
lot of it is completely counter-intuitive (eg, praise the dog
even when he's doing the WRONG thing)... but for some bizarre
reason, it works.... His methods *don't* quite match up with
what Cesar does... but... I figure, if you're willing to give
it a try, the *worst* that could happen would be the dog gets
a lot of extra praise and there's no effect whatsoever :-).

The way Jerry's training works, *any* problem is sorted out
after four iterations of extinguishing the behaviour. He says
*anybody* can do it, *every* time, because if a method doesn't
work 100% of the time, for everybody, it's not a good method.


Here's *my* quick summary of it all....


Basically, Jerry's method is based on a foundation of:


a) Focusing the dog's attention on you (the Hot and Cold exercise)


b) Establishing yourself as pack leader (the Family Pack Leadership
exercise) - Note that he does this by dominating *mentally*, never
by dominating *physically* (no alph rolls, no leash corrections)


c) Praising EVERYTHING the dog does - desired or undesired !!!


This is the weird part !! because you are praising the dog
for *thinking* and *deciding* (even if he decided something
you didn't want him to do). This part is so counter-intuitive,
that a lot of people just won't even try this method of training,
because they "know" it couldn't possibly work.


You *never* show the dog displeasure, raise your tone, emphasize
a word strongly, sigh in disgust, *nothing* negative (a hard
habit for a human being to break), EVER. Everything is completely
calm and matter of fact.


All the dog ever hears is what a good dog he is, and you're
*telling* him what a great dog he is, even when he's doing
the behaviour you DON'T want him to do (!). As I said, this
makes so little sense to human beings that a lot of people
won't even *try* this method of training a dog.


d) You *never* put *any* pressure on, or pull on, the dog's
collar. the lead is *always* kept loose. NO corrections are
done by pulling on the collar (a hard habit for a human being
to break).


e) Every behaviour can be created, or extinguished, with only
four repetitions of the training session (another wildly counter-
intuitive concept).


f) Interrupting and eliminating bad behaviours from the dog's
repertoire is done by using sound distractions to condition
the dog *not* to do certain things (or, rather TO do certain
OTHER things)....


Part (f), the sound distraction part, always consists of an
unvarying sequence of saying the exact same thing, four times
in a row (the only new thing being the insertion of the command
keyword <sit, down, come, whatever>) into the sequence, and with
no tonal emphasis on the words at all... and you say all four
sequences in a row, as if they were one long monotone word...
Two of the verbal iterations are accompanied by a sound <pennies
rattling in a can> and two aren't. It's the timing of the sound
to come at the same time as the keyword, that is critical...


Iteration 1: Doggy-<keyword>-good-boy. (and he may have NO clue
what "<keyword>" means)... immediately followed by: Iteration 2:
Doggy-<keyword> <shake can with pennies on the word "<keyword>"> -
good-boy.... immediately followed by: Iteration 3: Doggy-<keyword>-
good-boy.... immediately followed by:Iteration 4: <toss can with
pennies so that *just* as you say the <keyword>, the can hits the
ground, somewhere on the far side of the dog>: Doggy-<keyword> <can
lands as you say the word "<keyword>"> - good-boy.


So, it's really: Take a deep reath: Doggy-keyword-good-boy-
Doggy-[keyword/NEARBY-SOUND]-good-boy-Doggy-keyword-good-boy-
Doggyy-[keyword/FAR-SOUND]-good-boy,


The important part is that the sound has to come from two different
locations, and it has to occur precisely when the keyword is said.


I, personally, have the most trouble with timing the toss
so that the far-away can lands precisely on the keyword.


Jerry explains how to communicate to the dog what "<keyword>"
means, with your own actions. Initially, the behaviours are
based on the dog's motion (coming, going), and the foundation
that was established in the first two exercises, and then he
focuses on extinguishing undesirable behaviours (barking,
jumping, aggression, slamming against fences, bolting through
doors). Establishing desired behaviours like "sit" and "heel"
takes up a lot of the third file.


I'm warning you right up front that Jerry's method seems
COMPLETELY counter-intuitive. Not just counter-intuitive,
it seems completely stupid, impossible, unlikely, ridiculous,
and even *uncomfortable* (for you, the human being) to do.


You reward the dog when he hasn't seemed to do *anything* yet.
(boy, do you feel stupid! "This can't work!" ... but it does.)


You reward the dog when he's very pointedly doing something you
DON'T want.... (keep that smile on your face, in your tone, and
in your body language! very difficult! "Why am I rewarding him
when he's disobeying or being bad?" Jerry explains why !! )


It's the weirdest thing in the world, and yet it seems to work anyway.


I know you don't have tons of time, and it is, of course better
to read the original author's version than a summary! But, here's
a quick summary of the exercises I'm hoping you'll think are worth
trying...


The "Hot and Cold" exercise:


- Done in four different sessions on the first day.
- Takes about 2-3 minutes. You praise the dog every time he
comes towards you, or even looks at you, even out of the corner
of his eyes. Very shortly, he's hovering close to you and keeping
at least one eye on you. Now he's paying attention.


The "Pack Family Leadership" exericise:


- Done in four different sessions on the first day. The first
session takes about 15 minutes the first time, the second session
that day takes about 12 minutes, 8 minutes for the third session,
6 minutes for the fourth session. You do it in a 60' x 60' foot
square (you'll be using a 20' x 20' section, the rest is for the
dog's 20 foot leash to play out, if he wants to roam).


Ideally each of the four sessions is done in four different physical
locations. Do this weekly for the first month, then monthly as a
"tune up" thereafter. What you do is, preferably the entire family
(although it can be done by just one person) marches very slowly
(one step per second) around the square, stopping at the corners,
talking only to each other, never pulling the dog along with them,
never looking at the dog. If he comes, or looks at the group, he
gets praised. If he looks away, or walks away, he hears nothing.


That's it!


Pretty soon, he's hovering around his "pack", seeking attention.


Now you have the foundation to build on.


You build on the "Pack Family Leadership" exercise, to get a come/
recall, by adding in the four iterations plus sound distractions,
as per Jerry's instructions.


After that, any undesired behaviour is interrupted with brief
variably alternating sound distractions INSTANTLY followed by
prolonged NON PHYSICAL praise (if it takes as many as four),
and praise in advance as per his instructions, and any new
desired behaviour is taught using the four iterations plus
sound distractions, as per Jerry's instructions.


He specifically addresses dogs who bark too much/fling themselves
at windows/throw themselves at the door/etc. and bolting out the
front door, dogs who throw themselves against fences, people-
aggressive dogs, etc., and more.


Well, hope that didn't drown you with information....


Anyway, I hope you get a chance to read through it, and are
willing to give it a try. It takes less time than correcting
the dog over and over for the rest of his life, and it's more
fun all the way around for everybody.


Thanks,
-Lauren


-------


From: "GEORGE VONHILSHEINER" <DRV...@EARTHLINK.NET>
To: "Jerry Howe" <theamazingpuppywiz...@mail.com>
Subject: Proposed article for Wikipedia
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 15:48:33 -0500


The Amazing Puppy Wizard is the cognomen of a dog behaviorist,
Jerry Howe, of Orlando, Fl. Howe's primary teaching is that
dogs deserve unconditional love, respect, and attention and
that by providing these emotional needs dogs will regulate
their own behavior.


Howe is bombastically antagonistic to rewarders, but he is
aggressively hostile to punishers - he refers antagonists
to B.F. Skinner, Mary Cover Jones, and J.B. Watson and
especially to Samuel A. Corson when they mistakenly annunciate
behavioral principles to support their use of punishment.


Punishment always deranges behavior, says Skinner,
Jones, Watson, Corson and Jerry Howe!


Howe developed a sonic device which calms dogs and has
been broadly tested in a wide range of different situations.
The present author is a Who's Who recognized psychologist
who was asked to evaluate Howe's device by a former student.


Howe provided the author with a device, without
charge, and said device worked as reported.


George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
drv...@earthlink.net
Then cross reference to Jerry Howe, etc.


--------------


Jerry, the difficulty with these ignorant dog molesters
is that they cannot read. Negative reinforcement is no
response by the trainer.


There is positive reinforcement, an action which is followed
by an increase in the targetted behavior (usually called
"reward" which is precisely and technically a misnomer),
negative reinforcement is the absence of any response.


Negative means 'No'.


Skinner's last book, "CUMULATIVE RECORD" reviews this thoroughly.
http://www.mcli.dist.maricopa.edu/proj/nru/nr.html


Negative reinforcement is stopping an aversive reinforcement
according to this author. Read it, they have a sense of humor!


There are four forms of systematic reinforcement:


do nothing (negative reinforcement)


reward the behavior (positive reinforcement)


punish the behavior (aversive reinforcement) after habituating
the subject to punishment,


stop punishing (relief of aversion, which is negative reinforcement).


Logically, failing to reward after habituating a reward
is also negative reinforcement. Actually intermittent
rewards work better than consistent, invariable rewards,
so there is actually another two categories. Invariable
reinforcement and random reinforcement (on varying schedules).


Punishment is AVERSIVE REINFORCEMENT.


Actions which cause the animal being trained to avoid,
avert, cringe away from. Pavlovians always responded
to American psychologist's inability to reproduce Pavlov's
results with dogs with the comment, "American's don't LOVE
their dogs". If you ever observed a Russian psychologist
working with a dog, you'd instantly see the difference.


American psychologists were wooden, robot-like,
wanted to be "scientific".


This meant to them that they should display no
affection, or any other emotion with the subjects.


When a Pavlovian dog started to misbehave or fail to respond,
doggie was taken out of the equipment, and taken home for a
loving vacation, with much TLC. Sam Corson, Pavlov's last
student, demonstrated the same relationships at Ohio State.


Interestingly the first page of results for Sam Corson,
dog behaviorist is loaded with Jerry Howe quoting Dr. Von.
heh heh heh


Dr. Von


Oh, by the way, you once had a pompous fellow say that
Dr. Von was a figment of your imagination. I don't
normally mention this, but I have been listed in Who's
Who in the S & SE USA since 1982, and in the big books,
Who's Who in the USA, WW in the World, WW in Medicine
etc, and WW in Science and Technology, since that date.


These are the Marquis Publications, the "real" WW, and
you can't get yourself into them.


GvH


============

http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard


eleas...@gmail.com

unread,
Nov 15, 2019, 3:21:23 PM11/15/19
to
I had a black lab Newfoundland mix growing up. His prey drive caused him to get hit by a truck chasing a groundhog. Best dog I ever had. Harness and muzzle was necessary to introduce him to new animals. He killed dogs on my property that wondered on before. It took us about a week to three weeks to get him to accept a new animal if we wanted one. Three weeks for a farret one week for a pomeranian two weeks for a lab. Rotwieler puppy he treated like it was his puppy. Introducing new animals was a 24/7 job though.he was on 7 acre waterfront as well. So he was built for our property.

Terry Coombs

unread,
Nov 15, 2019, 3:48:59 PM11/15/19
to
On 11/15/2019 2:21 PM, eleas...@gmail.com wrote:
> I had a black lab Newfoundland mix growing up. His prey drive caused him to get hit by a truck chasing a groundhog. Best dog I ever had. Harness and muzzle was necessary to introduce him to new animals. He killed dogs on my property that wondered on before. It took us about a week to three weeks to get him to accept a new animal if we wanted one. Three weeks for a farret one week for a pomeranian two weeks for a lab. Rotwieler puppy he treated like it was his puppy. Introducing new animals was a 24/7 job though.he was on 7 acre waterfront as well. So he was built for our property.

  Doggus Maximus (the Handsome Hairball) is a 3 yer old Mountain Cur ,
and he too has a strong "prey drive" . I allow him to trail small game
sometimes though not give active chase . Seems to be enough of an outlet
to keep him happy . We haven't brought any more animals into the house
but he's friendly with other critters ... has his own cat , though he
expects me to foot the food bill .

--
Snag
Yes , I'm old
and crochety - and armed .
Get outta my woods !

swee...@gmail.com

unread,
Jul 7, 2020, 6:32:29 AM7/7/20
to
I know this thread is old, but training your dog is the only long-term solution, OP.

I love my dog so much but it constantly did the things that irked me most. It would chew on things that it shouldn’t or jump up and down out of the blue.

Whenever I put on the leash, it would pull on it. Whenever it was out of the house, it would continue digging on the ground - I wish I could tell what it was looking for down there. The same goes for all the nasty urine.

All the things it did left me feeling depressed as if I failed it monumentally.

But since I discovered Brain Training for Dogs and applied the system offered, it now behaves the way a beautiful dog I always expect of 🐶

Here's a link to their site: http://hiddendogintelligence.club/

Good luck!
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages