I had a Muttley

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janu...@webtv.net

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Oct 14, 2006, 10:08:04 AM10/14/06
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It was around 45 years ago. I am now 90 years old and have had dogs
almost all of my llfe. Most of them were GSDs. A few mixes, some
purebreds purchased from breeders, many, many, many rescues.

I was not looking for a dog when I found Bouncer. I was a journalist and
each week I visited the local pound to photograph an adoptable pet and
to write hopefully helpful words for the others.

There were numerous pens crowded with canines, but Bouncer was in
solitary confinement.

In my eyes he was magnificent. An old fashioned GSD, obviously from
German working dog lines. Oversized. Straight back.

" What a great dog!" I exclaimed as I started towards him with my camera
ready.

" No", said the attendant. " He's not a great dog. He's very aggressive.
He fights any and all dogs. He is oblivious to humans. Untrainable.
He'll be put down. Who would want him?"

" I do!" I replied.

They agreed to hold him for a few days. Each afternoon I visited and
talked to Bouncer through the cage door. On the third day he approached
and acknowledged me.

I went to my car to obtain a leash and returned to the shelter, leaving
the car door open.

" I think we're ready," I told the attendant.

I led Bouncer out into the yard and when we approached my car I asked
him:" Do you want to go home with me?"

He tugged on the leash. I dropped the leash. He leaped into the car.

I already had two dogs and several cats. Bouncer went into his own
private pen temporarily but in a few days was sharing the entire large
fenced yard with a spayed female adult GSD and a younger male with no
problem.

I was into Schutzhund at that time, so asked one of the instructors to
evaluate Bouncer, advising him of the unknown past and aggressive
behavior in the pound.

Bouncer was pronounced okay for basic obedience class, so we proceeded
to enroll. His dog aggressiveness flourished, but I could control him.
The instructor advised a prong collar and I followed that advice.

Soon after that Bouncer was showing aggression in class and although I
had him under control the instructor said: " Let me take him."

She took the leash and proceeded to jerk him from side to side while
yelling at him. After three or four hard jerks, Bouncer lunged at her
and bit her, tearing a gash in the arm that held the leash.

I immediately retrieved my dog while others attended to the wound. With
Bouncer in the back seat of my car and the wounded instructor just ahead
of him in the front seat I drove her to a doctor.

There were no repercussiions, no lawsuits, no hard feelings. She took
the blame. Euthenasia was never mentioned.

Bouncer lived the remainder of his lengthy life in my back yard behind
seven foot chain link fencing. He came in the house with me when I was
home.

During his life with me he killed a hapless cat who somehow foolishly
scaled that fence and entered his yard.

Bouncer loved me and I loved him. I remember him so well after all these
years .

And yes, I now have a dog. An oversize, straight backed Rescue GSD whose
life expectancy is similar to mine.

Jan

diddy

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Oct 14, 2006, 10:23:33 AM10/14/06
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in thread news:23392-45...@storefull-3338.bay.webtv.net:
janu...@webtv.net whittled the following words:

What a wonderfully written story of love,compassion, acceptance of
imperfections, and limitations, yet embracing the wonderful qualities of an
imperfect pet. I can see why you are a journalist, and I'm sure you are a
success. Considering a Dog's life is proportionally short compared to
humans, I hope both you and your current dog well out-live expectations.

pfoley

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Oct 14, 2006, 10:58:17 AM10/14/06
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<janu...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:23392-45...@storefull-3338.bay.webtv.net...
============
I love that story, and wonderfully written.
>


Judith Althouse

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Oct 14, 2006, 11:40:03 AM10/14/06
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Jan
What a beautiful story and naturally well written since that was one
of your passions (writing). The other gift you have was to see past the
dog in a cage scheduled for death and made him your own....and made it
work for both of you.
Good luck to you and your present friend.

Be Free,
Judy

Janet B

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Oct 14, 2006, 4:45:33 PM10/14/06
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On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 14:58:17 GMT, "pfoley" <pfo...@hotmail.com>,
clicked their heels and said:

>
>I love that story, and wonderfully written.
>>

as fiction? Many things don't add up about 45 years ago. "I was INTO
Schutzhund". How many 90 year olds phrase things that way? And prong
collars being the norm? It's all pretty fishy IMO, but a lot of us
have had difficult dogs. Doesn't mean most people would or should go
looking for them.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Melinda Shore

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Oct 14, 2006, 4:56:57 PM10/14/06
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In article <c0j2j2td0ln7ruvje...@4ax.com>,

Janet B <ja...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> wrote:
>as fiction? Many things don't add up about 45 years ago. "I was INTO
>Schutzhund". How many 90 year olds phrase things that way?

My 72-year-old mother uses '60s slang all the time. "Into"
is the least of it.

But anyway, after reading the post my response was "Yes, and ... ?"
The poster may have had a Muttley but the poster wasn't a
Paul, and I'm not sure why this was framed as a "Muttley"
except specifically to draw comparisons. I think that's not
fair. I mean, c'mon - comparing a novice dog owner with
competing demands on his time and efforts with someone who's
chosen to dedicate him/herself to a demanding dog sport and
a high level of dog training?
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com

The Free Enterprise Action Fund, a GOP mutual fund, is
underperforming the S&P 500 by about 40%.

Message has been deleted

Janet B

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Oct 14, 2006, 5:05:40 PM10/14/06
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On 14 Oct 2006 16:56:57 -0400, sh...@panix.com (Melinda Shore),

clicked their heels and said:

> I mean, c'mon - comparing a novice dog owner with
>competing demands on his time and efforts with someone who's
>chosen to dedicate him/herself to a demanding dog sport and
>a high level of dog training?

agreed. Even if "Jan" is for real (but for the record, there's a long
18 years between 72 and 90 yo, so I still think something's
fishy......), the point of making a comparison is very off the mark
and very unfair.


--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Janet B

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Oct 14, 2006, 5:08:22 PM10/14/06
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On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 16:00:03 -0500, diddy <di...@nospam.diddy.net>,

clicked their heels and said:

>
>I don't see anything wrong with that. Verbage changes over the years,and
>this person may well have changed with the times.

sure. maybe. they are using webtv after all. Call me skeptical, but
these "new" posters (most who I recognize from their AOL personas -
Ronna sent them all over here to check things out), especially those
ONLY commenting on this particular topic, are just a little curious.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

FurPaw

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Oct 14, 2006, 6:13:49 PM10/14/06
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Janet B wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 14:58:17 GMT, "pfoley" <pfo...@hotmail.com>,
> clicked their heels and said:
>
>> I love that story, and wonderfully written.

Ditto.

> as fiction? Many things don't add up about 45 years ago. "I was INTO
> Schutzhund". How many 90 year olds phrase things that way?

That, by itself, isn't a reason for disbelief. Despite my best
intentions, I, at 58, occasionally hear myself saying "exact
same" and "I am SO not _______." Neither phrasing was in vogue
in my youth, but being "into" something was common usage in the
late 1960s. Let's see, that was nearly 40 years ago, when the
poster was just over fifty. Yeah, "into" is a possibility.

Exact same. So.

FurPaw (still successfully resisting nucular, relator and ax)
--
"None of us is as smart as all of us."
Oh yeah? None of us is as stupid as all of us, either.

To reply, unleash the dog.

Paula

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Oct 14, 2006, 8:06:56 PM10/14/06
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On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 07:08:04 -0700, janu...@webtv.net wrote:

>Bouncer lived the remainder of his lengthy life in my back yard behind
>seven foot chain link fencing. He came in the house with me when I was
>home.
>
>During his life with me he killed a hapless cat who somehow foolishly
>scaled that fence and entered his yard.

This is one of Paul's great concerns. He doesn't want his beloved cat
to become a target.


>
>Bouncer loved me and I loved him. I remember him so well after all these
>years .

I'm glad you were able to make things work out with Bouncer.

I also had a Muttley. I've posted before about my Diva. She had
never bitten a person, but she had shown aggression toward some of
them. She had attacked dogs. I took her to expensive private
training and also worked with her extensively at home. I was not
working away from home at the time, so I had lots of time and energy
to put into her training and management. I had lots of help from the
trainers who had worked with her and a good friend who had been the
only male she didn't react to even when she was at her worst. She was
able to go out and about as long as she was under control. She even
learned to get along with and play with the other dogs in our
household, though I didn't leave them alone together when I was not at
home because I never was completely sure something wouldn't set her
off or that setting her off wouldn't mean an attack instead of just
some snarking. I loved her to death. She was a heart dog, not just a
rescue dog. But I could never have given her a good life if I had
been in Paul's situation. She would have been miserable out in the
backyard all day. Her short dalmatian coat wasn't as protective as a
GSD coat for being outside and her personality wasn't suited to
backyard living, either, even if she could come in when I was home. It
all depends on the dog and the owner's situation. If things had been
different in my situation at the time, I would have had to put Diva
down. If I hadn't had the resources for the private training and the
time to work with her and keep an eye on her and be with her so much
that she really bonded to me and learned to relax and let me decide
what needed to be attacked and what didn't, it would have been better
to put her down than to hang on to her and keep her in a life she
would have hated and that could have cost me the lives of other
animals in my household or injury to my children.

If Paul has to work, has to keep his cat safe, doesn't have the money
for private training from trainers who specialize in aggressive dogs,
and isn't physically up to the size and strength Muttley has to stop
him if he does get it into his head to attack some animal or someone,
I am not going to fault him for not doing what I did. I know I was
lucky to have the time and money and circumstances and a dog that
responded. It wasn't that I was a better person, just a person in a
better situation when that dog came along and who was landed with a
dog that was easier to control and harder to set off in the meantime.

--
Paula
"Anyway, other people are weird, but sometimes they have candy,
so it's best to try to get along with them." Joe Bay

Message has been deleted

janu...@webtv.net

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Oct 14, 2006, 8:41:53 PM10/14/06
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My sincere apologies to all who were irritated by my post, and a special
apology to Paul if he interpreted my words as unkind.

I resent being called a liar because my story is true. However, I
understand the anger at my reference to Muttley although it was not my
intention to make a comparison.

I had read the Muttley thread from start to finish and found a great
similarity between Muttley and my Bouncer. This prompted a flood of
memories and because I am a writer, a story happenned.

Yes, I use WEBTV. I read newsgroups and use email. I don't need a
computor unless I fear snide remarks, which I don't.

I am young for my years. I still write professionally. In my youth I was
a jazz musician and I still play a bit. I hang out with people much
younger than myself which probably affects my lifestyle as well as my
vocabulary.

If you are visualizing a little old lady sitting in a rocking chair
crocheting doilies, forget it!

Best wishes to all of you, and bless you for loving dogs.

Jan

Paul E. Schoen

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Oct 15, 2006, 1:52:43 AM10/15/06
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<janu...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:23364-45...@storefull-3331.bay.webtv.net...

Thank you for your well written story. I recognize and appreciate your
facility with the English language, which is often so lacking in newsgroup
posts and emails, especially when written by younger people. It was also
suggested to me that I write a story about Muttley, and in a way, I have.
He will be forever immortalized in the archives of Google, and your dog
Bouncer is now also a fixture in Cyberspace as a lasting memorial.

I am still fighting to keep Muttley alive, and I have been given a modicum
of hope from one local behaviorist who believes that his errant behavior
may be corrected so that he might possibly learn to accept my cat and
socialize safely with other dogs. His fee of about $500 for four one-on-one
lessons is a chunk of change, but I would gladly spend it if I could be
convinced that it would work, and that I (or someone else) could provide
the lifetime commitment that he needs. I would probably be remiss if I
rigidly held to my announced schedule to have him euthanized this
Wednesday, if there were a reasonable chance that he could be kept alive
and not pose a danger to others.

It is good that you clarified your identity and truthfulness in the face of
skepticism and unfair assumptions based on your stated age. Many people
have apparently labeled me as a rickety cripple and wimp that can't hold
onto the leash of a powerful 75 pound dog. I regularly play volleyball and
hike, in spite of an injured knee and a congenital back problem, and that
just limits my ability to run and give Muttley that form of exercise. I
have explained that the only time I lost control of the leash was due to my
being in an unbalanced position that was taught to me, if not by Janet,
then by one of her instructors. I regret that this single accident has
caused my wonderful dog to be labeled as dangerous, which puts me in such a
precarious position of liability.

I have met a lot of people as a result of my sojourn on this and other
newsgroups, and I appreciate the fact that almost everyone here loves dogs
and other animals, and have much good advice to help newcomers as well as
those with more experience. Of course, there are also those who are more
lacking in people skills, as evidenced by some of the petty exchanges and
uninformed criticisms. I have tried to be level-headed, truthful, and
open-minded in my posts and responses. It seems that my detailed story
about Muttley has opened up many informative dialogs, which I hope will
help others avoid similar misfortune.

Paul, Muttley and Photon


Robin Nuttall

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Oct 15, 2006, 8:53:38 AM10/15/06
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Janet B wrote:

The person writing the article didn't, IMO write like a 90 year old but
I could be wrong about that. However, 45 years ago schutzhund training
was extremely rare in this country. I can't find any evidence of
schutzhund as an organized sport in this country as early as 1961 when
this tale supposedly happened. The earliest I've heard is the mid-late
1970s. The USA club dates back to the 70s, DVG mid-1980s. NASA was
before that, but is so mostly forgotten that I can't find much in the
way of reference to it except on Ed Frawley's site. I don't think NASA
was ever really that widespread. So where was this person doing
schutzhund training? And why would ANY trainer of ANY grab a dog for
such a minor reason and shake him around like that?

I agree--pretty story, but doesn't sound factual.

Prettie...@muchomail.com

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Oct 15, 2006, 2:26:17 PM10/15/06
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HOWEDY January98,

<janu...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:23392-45...@storefull-3338.bay.webtv.net...


>
> It was around 45 years ago.

Ahhh, that's just abHOWET when The Sincerely Incredibly
Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy,
Birdy And Horsey Wizard began professionally trainin mostly
giant breed workin dogs, specializing in temperamet and behavior
problems <{): ~ ) >

> I am now 90 years old and have had dogs almost all of my llfe.

Yeah. You're a real dog lover JUST LIKE paulie <{): ~ ) >

> Most of them were GSDs. A few mixes, some purebreds
> purchased from breeders, many, many, many rescues.

The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing
Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard's
breeds are Great Danes an English Mastiffs <{): ~ ) >

> I was not looking for a dog when I found Bouncer. I was a
> journalist and each week I visited the local pound to photograph
> an adoptable pet and to write hopefully helpful words for the others.

The so called shelter / rescue movement is in large part, a SCAM,
January98 <{}: ~ ( >

You want a couple REAL GOOD DOGGY STORIES, January98?

Like WHO MURDERED Jessica Lundren?

Like WHO MURDERED Dianne Whipple?

Like HOWE COME the SAR dogs CAN'T FIND VICTIMS
with known startin points like Elizabeth Smart of a dead
body despite havin a MAP like in the case of Chandra Levy?

Like WHO MURDERED them three DEAD BOYS in
the trunk of the car in New Jersey?

Like HOWE COME that K-9 officer and his K-0 dog got
MURDERED trackin a known subject and the backup
"k-0" teams COULDN'T FIND THE PERPERTRATOR
hiding 300' from the shootin site, for 24 HOWERS, January98???

WE CAN PROVE HOWE COME THOSE K-9's FAILED.

They FAILED for the SAME REASON you and paulie
FAILED your RESCUE DOGS, despite your berautiful
story of FAILED REHABILITATION, ABUSE and CONfinement.

> There were numerous pens crowded with canines,
> but Bouncer was in solitary confinement.

That's normal.

> In my eyes he was magnificent. An old fashioned GSD,
> obviously from German working dog lines. Oversized.
> Straight back.

Good enough.

> " What a great dog!" I exclaimed as I started towards
> him with my camera ready.
>
> " No", said the attendant. " He's not a great dog. He's
> very aggressive. He fights any and all dogs. He is oblivious
> to humans. Untrainable. He'll be put down. Who would want him?"

That's NORMAL for HOWER DOG LOVERS, January98:

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to
it. When he barks, use the line for a correction.-
if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar," Lynn K.

"Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.

<except when it is>

"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs. It's a safety
necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

"Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.

<except when it is>

"So what? Whoever said that it's right to
always not confront? We sure can try, but
a dog who knows a command and growls when
given it is certainly being confrontational".
You can't simply walk away and pretend it
didn't happen or leave it for later work in
every situation." Lynn K.

--------------------

"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.

And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.

Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."

Lynn K.

----------------

"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.

Should I have refused to groom them?

Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."

Lynn K.

<java...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1157490645.3...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> lgohr...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Have any of you ever come across a dog, that you
> know there is just no hope for? The dog is untrainable.

Unfortunately, many times. It's usually not that the dog is
untrainable. Usually it's a case where the dog is so dangerous
that someone is going to be hurt before trainng can take effect.

A couple of case studies:

1. Last Friday I was called in to evaluate a 2 yr old Ridgeback/Boxer
coming out of quarantine from putting 9 stitches into a little girl's
face. Genetic temperament extremely fearful, spatial issues, head
and hand shy, could only be approached by the owner, no bite
inhibition.

The owner is a single mother with 3 kids, a chaotic household and a
full time job. Realistically, the dog could improve but would always
have limitations and need constant direction and supervision, All I
could do is tell the owner what could be done and what effort it would
take. She had to come to the conclusion herself that she wasn't up to
the task and that the end result wouldn't be good enough.

2. A newly adopted Boxer, very dog aggressive. While evaluating
him, I deliberately stepped between him and the dog he was reacting
to. He slipped his collar and bit me to the bone. The owners
couldn't
safely handle him and he couldn't be placed into another home because
of known liability.

He was returned to the breed rescue group to be pts.

3. Dax, a well-bred gsd, was untouchable at 7weeks old.

***(lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn TRAINED Dax since DAY WON)

The owner was a very capable and experienced gsd person
who made her living as a dogwalker/petsitter. I worked with
him for 9 months, and he was also seen by Leslie Nelson,
Trish King, Ian Dunbar, Jean Donaldson, and others.

In that time we worked through 7 different aggression
triggers, which were all immediately replaced by a new
one.

Neurological causes were suspected and tested, inconclusively.

He was the last born of the litter, after a stillborn, unformed fetus.

There was also an incident at 5 wks where a crate collapsed onto
him, with short unconsciousness.

His last bite was during an EEG, which showed
wildly abnormal brain patterns. It was time for
his dedicated owner to give up and let him go.

4. Last month I refused to work with a young pit bull in
foster care and had to tell the rescue group he was dangerous
and unadoptable.

My training partner, a former K9 officer refused to even
take the dog's leash because it would be pointless.

Totally unbonded to humans, he was also dog aggressive
and ready to come back up the leash at anyone who stopped
him from his target.

He would have been workable if he had a strong, experiienced handler.

***(like janet boss or herself...)

But the rescue group was particularly inept and the foster
home was worse - mother in leg braces and autistic teenage
son, both with bad physical skills, no experience, no emotional
control.

They've decided that all will be fixed by a Gentle Leader.

Cases 5 through 100 - all with sad details, all variable. I get an
average of 5 new aggression cases a week and anyone who thinks
that everything can be fixed needs to spend some time with us to
see the great variety of dogs and situatiions that presents.

Most can be turned around, but not all.

Lynn K.

"Amy Dahl" <a...@oakhillkennel.com> wrote in message
news:44FDF340...@oakhillkennel.com...

> java...@yahoo.com wrote:

>> 2. A newly adopted Boxer, very dog aggressive.

This is utterly beyond my experience, and very scary.
I received a fairly bad bite, once, from a dog that, I
recognized later, was competely measured and controlled
in what he did.

I have observed many times the great control and
discrimination dogs have over what they do with
their mouths.

A dog in which those mechanisms aren't working
would scare me silly.

Lynn, you and some of the people you work
with are phenomenally dedicated.

Amy Dahl

=============

THOSE ARE THE PSYCHOPATHS GIVIN ADVICE
an MURDERIN "RESCUED DOGS", Jan <{}: ~ ( >

> " I do!" I replied.

LikeWIZE, January98 <{}: ~ ) >

> They agreed to hold him for a few days. Each afternoon
> I visited and talked to Bouncer through the cage door.
> On the third day he approached and acknowledged me.
>
> I went to my car to obtain a leash and returned to the shelter,
> leaving the car door open.
>
> " I think we're ready," I told the attendant.
>
> I led Bouncer out into the yard and when we approached
> my car I asked him:" Do you want to go home with me?"
>
> He tugged on the leash. I dropped the leash. He leaped into the car.

> I already had two dogs and several cats. Bouncer went
> into his own private pen temporarily but in a few days
> was sharing the entire large fenced yard with a spayed
> female adult GSD and a younger male with no problem.

Of curse. Dogs train EZ an FAST if you DON'T ABUSE THEM.

> I was into Schutzhund at that time, so asked one of the
> instructors to evaluate Bouncer, advising him of the
> unknown past and aggressive behavior in the pound.

> Bouncer was pronounced okay for basic obedience class,

Since when might a dog NOT BE O.K. for OBEDIENCE TRAININ???

> so we proceeded to enroll. His dog aggressiveness flourished,

INDEEDY. On accHOWENT of you was JERKIN an CHOKIN
IT JUST LIKE HOWE paulie been doin to his "RESCUE DOG"
Muttley whom he's fixin to MURDER THIS WEEK thanks to
followin the INSTRUCTION of a pathetic miserable stinkin
lyi animal murderin active acute chronic long term incurable
mental case.

> but I could control him.

No you couldn't. You jerked an choked an intmidated
him under the EXXXXPERT INSTRUCTION of a
PSYCHOPATH, JUST LIKE HOWE THESE PATHETIC
MISERABLE STINKIN LYIN ANIMAL MURDERIN
MENTAL CASES PREFER.

LIKE THIS:

"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:

"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue

From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20

ginge...@my-deja.com wrote:
> How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.

Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.

"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works
better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
this situation.

Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can
take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that
time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
whatever other reward system was being used."

8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong
works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
why you have the dog muzzled).

If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.

This is important - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."

Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
<news:04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@TeraNews>...

Lynn, looks like he got you there if these
quotes are true.
In the posts below you take responsibility for
making those calls.

In your post above, you state you do not
make those calls.

Which one is it?

WORDS OF WISDOM
From Our Own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg Of Lithium And 50 mg Of Zoloft
EVERY DAY
For Twenty Years

I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM

"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-
depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50
mg of Zoloft every day.

I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to
learn more, while happily sharing pertinent
information I have learned. But if I were ever
to post such sh*t, I would hope that every other
reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."

"Community is an evolutionary thing that we
earn the right to participate in by observing
the easily understood rules and contributing
to in constructive ways."

"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."

Lynn K.

------------------------------

> The instructor advised a prong collar and I followed that advice.

THAT'S INSANE.

> Soon after that Bouncer was showing aggression in class

Naaaah?

Oh, you mean JUST LIKE HOWE paulie's DEAD DOG
Muttley OBJECTED to bein jerked an choked on janet's
pronged spiked pinch choke collar, Jan?

Oh, you don't mind The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely
Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey
Wizard addressin you in the familial 'Jan', do you? And you of
curse, may likeWIZE address The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin
Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy
And Horsey Wizard in the familial, "The", O.K.?

NHOWE it FEELS like we been PALS for forty five years, don't it, Jan???

> and although I had him under control the instructor said:
> " Let me take him."

Ahhh, JUST LIKE HOWE janet done to Muttley, eh Jan???

> She took the leash and proceeded to jerk him
> from side to side while yelling at him.

Ahhh yes, RESCUE DOGS LOVE THAT!

> After three or four hard jerks, Bouncer lunged at her
> and bit her, tearing a gash in the arm that held the leash.

He was just showin his APPRECIATION for her DEMONstration
of UNCONDITIONAL LOVE TRUST an RESPECT, the nitty
gritty behind ALL EFFECTIVE SCIENTIFIC behavior modification:

Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last Student Demonstrated At
UofOH, That Rehabilitation Of Hyperactive Dogs Can
Easily And Readily Be Done Using TLC. Tender Loving
Care Is At The Root Of The Scientific Management Of
Doggys. <{) ; ~ ) >

"...all the highest nervous activity, as it manifests
itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a continual
change of these three fundamental processes --
excitation, inhibition and disinhibition," Ivan P. Pavlov

"Postitive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement. IOW,
emotions, not outside rewards, are what
reinforces any behavior," Ivan Pavlov.

"All animals learn best through play." -- Konrad Lorenz

"Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVER LEARNING THEORY
model involves the USE OF PUNISHMENT. Of curse,
Skinner has never to my knowledge, demonstrated
HOWE we escape the phenomenon that an expected
reward not received is experienced as a punishment
and can produce extensive and persistent aggression
(Azrin et al, 1966)."

"The IMBECILITY of some of the claims for operant
technique simply take the breath away. Lovas et al
(1966) report a standard contingent reward/punishment
procedure developing imitative speech in two severly
disturbed non verbal schizophrenic boys. After twenty-
six days the boys are reported to have been learning
new words with alacrity. HOWEver, when REWARDS
were moved to a delayed contingency the behavior and
learning immediately deteriorated."

"It is NO WONDER that the marked changes in
deviant behavior of children can be achieved
through brief, simple educative routines with
their mothers which modify the mother's social
behaviors shaping the child (Whaler, 1966). Some
clinics have reported ELIMINATION ofthe need for
child THERAPY through changing the clinical emphasis
from clinical to parental HANDLING of the child
(Szrynski 1965).

A large number of cases improved sufficiently after
preliminary contact with parents that NO treatment
of children was required, and almost ALL cases
SHOWE a remarkably shortened period for therapy.
Quite severe cases of anorexia nervosa have been
treated in own to five months by simply REPLACING
the parents temporarily with EFFUSIVELY LOVING
SUBSTITUTES (Groen, 1966)."

The Methods, Principles And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change,
Or They'd Not Be Scientific
And Could Not Obtain
Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective, Safe Results
For All Handler's And All Critters,
And ALL Behaviors
In ALL FIELDS And ALL UTILITIES,
ALL OVER The Whole Wild World,
NEARLY INSTANTLY,
As Taught In Your FREE Copy Of The Sincerely Incredibly
Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing
GRAND
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE
WWW Wits'End Dog, Child, Kat And Horse Training Method Manual

<{} ; ~ ) >

> I immediately retrieved my dog while others attended to the wound.

Please EXXXCUSE The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely
Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey
Wizard for just WON moment: BWEEEEEEAAAAHAHAHAAA!!!

Thanks, Jan, I NEEDED THAT <{): ~ ) >

Sometimse 'Humor Is The Beast Medecine'.

AIN'T IT <{); ~ ) >

> With Bouncer in the back seat of my car and the wounded
> instructor just ahead of him in the front seat I drove her to a doctor.

BWEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!

Pardone moi, eh Jan <{}: ~ ( >

Did she make YOU PAY for the damages like HOWE janet
done to paulie when her abuse caused Muttley to attack the
other dog, a behavior which had pryor been TOTALLY HOWET
OF CHARACTER for him, Jan?

> There were no repercussiions, no lawsuits, no hard feelings.

You mean she didn't recommend you MURDER Bouncer
like HOWE janet done to paulie and his RESCUE DOG
Muttley, whom she DIDN'T GET TO MURDER when
palie first brought him to her SHELTER to find him a
new HOWES on accHOWENT of he couldn't TRAIN
him to love his kat Photon, Jan?

> She took the blame.

Naaaaah? You mean, on accHOWENT of she was IN
CON-TROLL of the class and anything happenin in it?

> Euthenasia was never mentioned.

You mean, she wasn't a paranoid shizophrene like janet an paulie?

You'll NOTICE janet NEVER suggested Muttley COULD
BE TRAINED to LOVE his kat Photo, Jan. She was "TRAININ"
Muttley so IT could be well enough behaved to get hisself a
NEW HOWES withHOWET a kat in it <{): ~ ( >

> Bouncer lived the remainder of his lengthy life

UNLIKE Muttley, Jan. Muttley GOTTA DIE on
accHOWENT of janet an paulie HURTIN him.

> in my back yard behind seven foot chain link fencing.
> He came in the house with me when I was home.

Was you havin a PROBLEM for TRAININ him, Jan?

PERHAPS had you NOT JERKED an CHOKED him
he'd settle right DHOWEN and RELAXXX and ENJOY
livin in your HOWES with your family, LIKE ANY DOG.

Or kat, for that matter, Jan <{) : ~ ) >

> During his life with me he killed a hapless cat
> who somehow foolishly scaled that fence and
> entered his yard.

Dogs MURDER kats HOWEtside on accHOWENT of
they been PUNISHED for tryin to attack kats INSIDE.

You'll find THOWESANDS of EXXXACTLY PRECISELY
SIMILAR CASE HISTORIES RIGHT HERE in The Sincerely
Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child,
Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog, Child,
Kat And Horse Training Method Manual Forums AND Human And
Animal Behavior Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory AND
COLLEGE OF HARD KNOCKXXX <{) ; ~ ) >

> Bouncer loved me and I loved him.

INDEEDY! OtherWIZE you wouldn't of JERKED an CHOKED
him till he WENT INSANE JUST LIKE HOWE Muttley done.

> I remember him so well after all these years .

INDEEDY. Seems like The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely
Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey
Wizard KNOWS Bouncer PERSONALLY <{): ~ ( >

Could be, Bouncer hired The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely
Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey
Wizard to WHACK YOU HOWET for HURTIN him, eh Jan???

> And yes, I now have a dog. An oversize, straight backed
> Rescue GSD whose life expectancy is similar to mine.

Are you still HURTIN YOUR DOG, Jan?

> Jan

Oh, bye the bye, WELCOME to The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin
Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And
Horsey Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog, Child, Kat And
Horse Training Method Manual Forums <{); ~ ) >

I'm Jerry Howe, The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >

Here's your own FREE COPY of The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin
Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And
Horsey Wizard's

The *666* Edition Of Your Own
FREE COPY
Of
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing
GRAND
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog, Child, Kat And Horsey Training Method Manual <{) ; ~ )
>

<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > http://makeashorterlink.com/?K3AD21A3D < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>

The_Insanely_Freakin_Simply...@hotmail.com

unread,
Oct 15, 2006, 4:51:03 PM10/15/06
to
HOWEDY paulie,

"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote in message
news:4531cd62$0$2536$ecde...@news.coretel.net...


>
> <janu...@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:23364-45...@storefull-3331.bay.webtv.net...
>> My sincere apologies to all who were irritated by my post,
>> and a special apology to Paul if he interpreted my words as
>> unkind.

That's curiHOWES seein as Jan had THE SAME PROBLEMO
for the SAME REASON, ain't it, paulie <{): ~ ( >

>> I resent being called a liar because my story is true.

Well THAT'S the PREDICTABLE RESULT of talkin
with pathetic miserable stinkin lyin animal murderin
active acute chronic long term incurable mental cases,
WOULDN'T YOU AGREE, paulie, based of curse on
your own REAL LIFE IN PERSON EXXXPERIENCE
HURTIN INTIMIDATIN an MURDERIN your own
DEAD "RESCUE DOG" Muttley???

Perhaps the KINDEST thing you can do is just RELEASE
the poor dog so's maybe he'll find someWON who AIN'T
a pathetic miserable stinkin lyin animal murderin active
acute chronic long term incurable mental case, eh paulie?

>> However, I understand the anger at my reference to
>> Muttley although it was not my intention to make a
>> comparison.

Well that's QUEER, AIN'T IT, paulie, seein as Jan an you
GOT THE SAME PROBLEM for the SAME REASON.

ONLY DIFFERENCE is, Jan AIN'T a pathetic miserable
stinkin lyin dog murderin COWARD like you and your
punk thug mental case pals who HURT INTIMDIATE an
MURDER innocent defenseless dumb critters an TRY to
GET HOWET CALLIN THAT, "RESCUE", eh paulie?

>> I had read the Muttley thread from start to finish and
>> found a great similarity between Muttley and my Bouncer.

INDEEDY. They're IDENTICAL, AIN'T THEY, paulie.

EXXXCEPT FOR WON THING, paulie: Jan DIDN'T HAVE


The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing
Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog, Child, Kat And Horse Training

Method Manual and all the FREE IN PERSON REAL LIFE
ADVICE of The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply


Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey

Wizard like HOWE you got and REFUSED in order to HURT
INTIMIDATE an MURDER your own RESCUE DOG Muttley.

>> This prompted a flood of memories and because
>> I am a writer, a story happenned.

Yeah. If you want the REAL STORY you'll FIND IT ALL


in The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing

Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard's Human


And Animal Behavior Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory

Archives on Google and other fine, pubic, unmoderated usenet
news group archive search engines <{}: ~ ) >

>> Yes, I use WEBTV. I read newsgroups and use email.
>> I don't need a computor unless I fear snide remarks,
>> which I don't.

WE'LL SEE if Jan REPLIES to The Sincerely Incredibly


Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child,

Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard <{): ~ ) >

THAT ALWAYS PROVES the poster's INTENT.

>> I am young for my years. I still write professionally. In my
>> youth I was a jazz musician and I still play a bit. I hang out
>> with people much younger than myself which probably affects
>> my lifestyle as well as my vocabulary.

Perhaps Jan will study his ownown FREE COPY of The Sincerely


Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child,
Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard's

The *666* Edition Of Your Own
FREE COPY
Of
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing
GRAND
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog, Child, Kat And Horsey Training Method Manual <{) ; ~ )
>

<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > http://makeashorterlink.com/?K3AD21A3D < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>

and tell us what he thinks of EFFECTIVE NON PHYSICAL
SCIENTIFIC and PSYCHOLOGICAL Pavlovian and
Ericksonial conditionin techniques Vs HURTIN an INTIMIDATIN
an MURDERIN innocent defenseless dumb critters like HOWE
you been taugh, eh paulie???

BWEEEEAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAA!!!

>> If you are visualizing a little old lady sitting in a
>> rocking chair crocheting doilies, forget it!

Perhaps Jan will have enough INTEREST in a STORY
to READ THE CASE HISTORY DATA QUOTED BY


The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing
Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard

which IDENTIFIES EXXXPOSES and DISCREDITS
these pathetic miserable stinkin lyin animla murderin
child abusin punk thug coward active acute chronic
long term incurable mental cases like yourself, eh paulie?

>> Best wishes to all of you, and bless you for loving dogs.

Oh, INDEEDY! And BEST WISHES to Muttley <{}: ~ ( >

>> Jan
>
> Thank you for your well written story.

CAN YOU SEE HOWE HURTIN DOGS MAKES THEM INSANE, paulie?

> I recognize and appreciate your facility with the English language,

We was talkin abHOWET jerkin an chokin dogs on pronged
spiked pinch choke collars an MURDERIN them for bein
AFRAID. REMEMBER paulie?

> which is often so lacking in newsgroup posts and emails,

INDEEDY!

Some folks just don't know HOWE to be NICE, eh paulie?

> especially when written by younger people.

Yeah. Blame young people, eh paulie?

> It was also suggested to me that I write a story about Muttley,

You DID, you freakin imbecile <{}: ~ ( >

> and in a way, I have.

INDEED. THAT'S CALLED FORENSIC EVIDENCE, paulie.

> He will be forever immortalized in the archives of Google,

INDEEDY. In The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply


Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard's

Human And Animal Behavior Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory

Archives for the WHOWEL WILD WORLD to RIDICULE and MOCK
for the next THOWESAND YEARS, paulie <{}: ~ ( >

Your CASE HISTORY will be EXXXAMINED an STUDIED
by psychiatric, psychology and ethology students ALL OVER
the WHOWEL WILD WORLD long after we're ALL dead an
buried <{}: ~ ) >

> and your dog Bouncer is now also a fixture in
> Cyberspace as a lasting memorial.

Yeah, it DOES VERIFY EVERYTHING you and janet
the pathetic miserable stinkin lyin animal murderin mental
case done to hurt intimidate an murder your own DEAD
RESCUER DOG Muttley.

Perhaps you should LEAVE "RESCUE DOGS" ALONE
to fend for themselves where AT LEAST they'd have a
CHANCE of LIVIN so long as a RESCUER don't come
along to HEELP by MURDERIN them, eh dog lovers?

> I am still fighting to keep Muttley alive,

That so, paulie? You're still lookin to HURT an INTIMDIATE Muttley.

> and I have been given a modicum of hope

That so, paulie?

> from one local behaviorist who believes that his errant behavior
> may be corrected so that he might possibly learn to accept my
> cat and socialize safely with other dogs.

BWEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAAAAA!!!

You don't need a "EXXXPERT BEHAVIORIST" paulie.

The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing

Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard has
DISCREDITED the entire industry of dog trainin and behaviorism.

> His fee of about $500 for four one-on-one lessons is a
> chunk of change, but I would gladly spend it if I could
> be convinced that it would work,

Yeah? HOWEver, you WON'T TRY NOT HURTIN Muttley FOR FREE.

IS THAT INSANE, paulie? No, that's NORMAL for a dog an
child abusin pathetic miserable stinkin animal murderin mental
case with a colossal inferiority complex, weak fearful mind and
defective ego, paulie <{): ~ ( >

BLAME YOUR PARENTS for THAT.

> and that I (or someone else) could provide the
> lifetime commitment that he needs.

You mean CONSTANT JERKIN CHOKIN an MANAGEMENT.

> I would probably be remiss if I rigidly held to my announced
> schedule to have him euthanized this Wednesday,

HOWEver, YOU WILL paulie, on accHOWENT of THAT'S
YOUR HUMAN NATURE, the nature of a natural born coward.

OtherWIZE, you WOULDN'T OF HURT Muttley to begin with.

At least Jan HAD AN EXXXCUSE, there WASN'T NO
doGdameneD Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply


Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey

Wizard when he SAVED HIS RESCUE DOG Bumper <{): ~ ) >

YOU AIN'T GOT THAT EXXXCUSE, paulie.

You're nuthin but a pathtic miserable stinkin loser
lookin for like minded company, which you've
FHOWEN quite EZ on your own, and will do
and say ANYTHING to defend your abuse <{): ~ ( >

> if there were a reasonable chance that he could be kept alive
> and not pose a danger to others.

Oh. Well then paulie, all you gotta do is STOP HURTIN
an INTIMIDATIN him, would you BELIEVE <{}: ~ ( >

> It is good that you clarified your identity and truthfulness
> in the face of skepticism and unfair assumptions based
> on your stated age.

You mean by the pathetic miserable stinkin lyin animal
murderin mental cases who told you to HURT INTIMIDATE
an MURDER your "RESCUE DOG" Muttley?

> Many people have apparently labeled me as a rickety
> cripple and wimp that can't hold onto the leash of a
> powerful 75 pound dog.

Well THAT'S on accHOWENT of YOU DIDN'T
HURT HIM ENOUGH, paulie <{}: ~ ( >

> I regularly play volleyball and hike, in spite of an
> injured knee and a congenital back problem, and
> that just limits my ability to run and give Muttley
> that form of exercise.

Muttley DON'T NEED "EXXXORCISE" paulie, he
NEEDS YOU NOT TO HURT HIM someMOORE.

> I have explained that the only time I lost control of the leash
> was due to my being in an unbalanced position that was taught
> to me, if not by Janet, then by one of her instructors.

BWEEEAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828...@mb-m18.aol.com...

> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
> Janet Boss
>
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1...@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...

> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916...@mb-m17.aol.com...
> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.

An INSENSITIVE DOG???

> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.


Here's janet's PARTNER:

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

sinofabitch writes:
> > What I have said- repeatedly - is that he
> > took posts from two different people,
> > took pieces of them out of context,

Of curse. QUOTED. You wanna see it in context?

> > cobbled them together,

No. There was WON DIRECT QUOTE.

> > then added his own words:

"Neatly," and "Smartly."

> > and a fake signature.

"sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.

> > Which is exactly what he did.

INDEEDY. That's HOWE COME you deny it.

> > The actual quote is misleading

That so?

> > when taken out of context,

We'd been talkin abHOWET beatin the dog with a shoe...

> > and Jerry's faked "quote"

The WON sinofabitch totally DENIES.

> > is downright meaningless.

Only if you're a MENTAL CASE.

Here's Jerry's version

"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.

Here's yours:

"I dropped the leash, threw my
right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
grabbed her opposite foot with my
left hand, rolled her on her side,
leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and
nipped her ear.
--Sara Sionnach

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

See?
============

> I regret that this single accident

NO paulie. That was your second "ACCIDENT"
under janet's gentle IN PERSON REAL LIFE
INSTRUCTION. REMEMBER NHOWE, paulie?

> has caused my wonderful dog to be labeled as dangerous,

By the MENTAL CASE who TAUGHT YOU TO HURT HIM.

> which puts me in such a precarious position of liability.

BWEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAAAAA!!!

Hey, lissen up arseHOWEL.

IT WA YOU WHO WENT TO JANET KNOWIN SHE'D HURT Muttley.

> I have met a lot of people as a result of my
> sojourn on this and other newsgroups,

You've met a lotta incompetent miserable stinkin
lyin animal murderin active acute chronic long
term incurable mental cases who jerk choke shock
bribe crate intimidate an murder innocent defenseless
dumb critters an LIE abHOWET IT, paulie <{): ~ ( >

IWO, folks JUST LIKE YOURSELF:

"Birds of a feather. You're JUDGED BY the company
you keep. When you lie DHOWEN with pigs you'll
awaken STINKIN LIKE 'M," The Puppy Wizard's DADDY <{): ~ ( >

> and I appreciate the fact that almost everyone here loves dogs

"When you get BAGGED for LYIN you're MARKED
FOR LIFE," The Puppy Wizard's DADDY <{): ~ ( >

> and other animals, and have much good advice to help
> newcomers as well as those with more experience.

You mean the animal abusin mental cases, paulie.

> Of course, there are also those who are more lacking
> in people skills, as evidenced by some of the petty
> exchanges and uninformed criticisms.

Oh, you mean the EXXXPERTS you're askin for ADVICE.

> I have tried to be level-headed, truthful, and
> open-minded in my posts and responses.

That so, paulie? IS THAT HOWE COME YOU HURT Muttley?

> It seems that my detailed story about Muttley
> has opened up many informative dialogs,

Oh, you mean the "Relative Judgement Of A Circular
Assignment Of Thought," eh paulie? You mean the
DISCUSSION abHOWET bribing and avoiding Vs
jerkin choking shocking and intimdiatin.

We're talkin abHOWET MENTAL ILLNESS
and animal an child ABUSE, not dog trainin <{): ~ ( >

> which I hope will help others avoid similar misfortune.

INDEEDY.

HOWEver, it AIN'T GONNA HEELP if all's we got readin


The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing
Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog, Child, Kat And Horse Training

Method Manual Forums are pathetic miserable stinkin lyin
animal murderin mental case LHOWETS, like you, paulie <{}: ~ ( >

> Paul, Muttley and Photon

BWEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAA!!!

Here, paulie, READ IT, you miserable
stinkin lyin dog murderin piece of shit:


Valerie had the same problem with her dog who'd spent two
years in a no kill shelter gettin beat up by other dogs.
marybeth tried to make everyone believe Val's post was a
FORGERY by me because we've got some very nasty dangerous
people posting here who'll DO AND SAY ANYTHING to make
your dog act like theirs. They WANT YOU TO HAVE PROBLEMS
with your dog so THEY DON'T LOOK OUT OF PLACE when they
HURT INTIMDIATE and MURDER their own dogs like marybeth
and dian aka lush who just replied to your post do:

Nevyn writes:

Jerry I cannot even begin to tell you the success Ive
had with your training manual! My two mutts have gone
from out-of-control psychos to obedient well behaved
companions within a matter of weeks!

AND My friends have seen the success and have asked
me to work on their dogs!

I was working with a 5 month old Ridgeback female today
and she was being an angel after like an hour of working
with her!

It is AMAZING!!

I pity those fools who take their dogs to classes where the
"Trainers" abuse their dogs! (do they have a degree? A masters?
a Phd? by the way? NO they are average joes off the street who
think they know how to train dogs!)

Once again, Jerry, you are a genius!

NEVYN and my Dogs, Rizzo and Midget, My Grandparents
dogs, Dusty and Snoopy, and my friends pup, Jazz.

================

From: "Valerie M. Holmes" <Holme...@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 02:07:23 GMT

Subject: Aggressive Dal from shelter

I recently adopted a female, spayed 3 1/2 yr old
dalmatian from a no-kill shelter. She spent 2
years in the shelter and naturally she has some
socialization issues to overcome.

My problem is I am not quite sure HOW to tackle these issues. . .

1. She is aggresive toward **ALL** other dogs, even
dogs that have shown that they are willing to be submissive.
Upon sight of a dog, she lunges and snarls.

2. She is usually kind and affectionate toward her owner
(me), but recently began turning sour and for no apparent
reason snarls toward me! This has completely destroyed
the trust we were building over the past month.

3. She deals with visitors, but is very anxious around
people she doesn't know. At first she would scream if
a stranger petted her with 2 hands. I just don't trust
her around anyone yet.

4. She lunged at my sisters 2 year old the same way she
lunged toward other dogs, aggressively.

I really really like this dog, when she is calm and able
to relax. I want to keep her, but I don't really know
what the best way to establish the necessary trust.

Any ideas out there?

Val writes Monday, 6/3/02:

Well, for what it's worth, I am praising without
physical contact and she does seem to listen
better than when I would praise with it. I agree
that it is a distraction.

Anyway, no more aggressive behaviors from
her since I started the Witts End.

AND LIKE THIS:

"Leprechaun" <Leprech...@attglobal.net> wrote in message

news:m01Hc.20882$uK.1...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...

> Jerry believes he's a dog trainer.

Fortunately, I happen to believe he is too.
I took a rescued three year old beagle that
had been kept outside all of its life that didn't
even recognize or respond to its name to Jerry's
home (That ugly cinder block shack??? get real)
and in just over one hour of working with the dog,
he was coming on command (not as quickly as he does
now, but still...) and walking with us on a loose lead.

His "hot/cold" exercise and "come when called"
command and pack exercise WORK!

> and in all likelihood he's never even been near a dog.

Well, he's been near mine, and done wonders for him.

You don't have to like him. You don't have
to agree with his methods, but as far as I
am concerned, I've never seen any other
training approach that was as fast and easy.

<<<< Rest of original post deleted >>>>

Ron Flanagan
Orlando, Florida

And THIS:

Subject: Re: Lab/Rot 11 Months (TEMPER PROBLEMS)
Date: 2004-05-21 19:22:05 PST
"Zack Pellers" <ZackPell...@GUESSWHERE.cc>

wrote in message

Your dog needs to be retrained. Contact Mr. Jerry Howe.
Http://www.DoggyDoRight.com

You can start by downloading the free training
manual available on the site above. I used it on
my 4 year old Fila Brasileiro.

When I first brought him home from rescue, he
was similar to the way you decribed your dog.
After using Mr. Howe's training method, the dog
was cured within 72 hours.

-Jack


"MaryBeth" <marbe...@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:3cfcdcfb$2...@news.teranews.com...

> "MaryBeth" <marbe...@NOSPAMcomcast.net>
> wrote in message

> Didja also see that he has 'morphed' into Valerie M.
> Holmes ?????

> Note: I am not saying there isn't a VALID Valerie
> M. Holmes, but this one lives in howdy's home.

> MB <G>

From: Seeing Spots \(Val\) (Holme...@worldnet.att.net)
Subject: Re: Dear Wits End
Date: 2002-06-04 18:19:07 PST

HEY!!!

There is a Valid Valerie with a REAL Dalmatian
who is a real sweet dog with a few issues that I
am working to resolve after adopting her from a
shelter she spent 2 years in.

All I want is to get some decent help for my dog.

There is some decent stuff in Jerry's manual.
My dog has ACTUALLY been responding to
her training. The deal is you have to seperate
your opinions and impressions from the guy
who is writing these posts and take from the
manual what you want.

Personally, I get a pretty good chuckle out of
the whole Jerry thing. I have to say the guy
is pretty clever, you're letting him get under
your skin.

It makes for a very amusing game I think.

I'm sure he would agree, or he wouldn't be playing
everyday. He also wouldn't be playing if he didn't
believe that his method of training weren't valid.

Perhaps I'll learn from my mistakes, but so far,
using the Wits' End, I have gotten my dalmatian
to listen to me, to look to me for direction, to wait
for me to say when.

I have changed her from an aggressive dog to
one who is willing to please her owner, willing
to listen, willing to assume her role in the pack.

The real Valerie M. Holmes speaking

P.s. Jerry, don't get any ideas about morphing
into me, ok?

-------------------

HOWEDY Group,

Here some SUCCESS STORIES ive had
using JERRY'S MANUAL

1) My dogz, two bitches - Vicious, barking, aggressive,
pulled on leash, wanted to kill any dogs they saw, fought
between each other. TWO WEEKS using Jerry's manual,
they were calm, friends, my companions.

2) ADDED A BEAGLE PUPPY (male) to my "PACK", the
girls had -NO PROBLEMS- with him from the moment I
dropped him by their noses.

3) My FRIENDS dogs 2 MALES barking and jumping
at the fence all night 3 DAYS TRAINING WITH JERRY'S
MANUAL they were CALMED AND HAVEN'T BARKED ONCE!

Added a NEW MALE DOG (2 yrs old) AND
WELCOMED HIM WITH NO WUCKAS !

4) POODLE that ATE food from the KITCHEN BENCH -
lock him in a box? NO! USE JERRYS MANUAL! 4 DAYS
AND HES NEVER DONE IT SINCE!

5) ABUSED DOGS AT THE SHELTER I WORK AT -
HAD TO BE FED WITH A BUCKET ON A STICK -
ONE WEEK ON JERRYS MANUAL, THE SUPERVISOR
TOLD ME TO PUT THEM IN THE PUBLIC KENNELS
FOR SALE !

Quite amazing to - I thought they were just
dull coloured dogs, but after I had removed
the fear and anxiety their hairs coloured up
amazingly.

6) STAFFY FEMALE who would NOT DROP HER
BALL! She carried it around all day and
night - 3 DAYS on jerrys MANUAL and she
now DROPS it when u ASK her to!

BWHWHAHAHAHAAHA !!!!

Nevyn

============

From: Nevyn (ali...@wasp.net.au)
Subject: Newsgroups: rec. pets. dogs. behavior
View this article only
Date: 2002-03-01 03:15:50 PST

Hello

I have two mungrel females; the breeds
exactly are Blue Heeler (spots) x Kelpi
(dominant genes) x American Pitbull
(behavioural) x Pug (don't laugh!).

They are gentle loving dogs when I'm at
home with them, and they are friendly
with unknown people. They are sisters.
One is obviously dominant over the other,
and I don't have a problem with that, however;

Their behaviour is very odd. Some days they
are very good whilst I'm walking them, some
days they are not. They are 3 years old and
have only been walking for about 12 months
because my mom didn't walk them and now I'm
home so I walk them for about an hour and
half every afternoon. I take them to the
park where they chase birds and swim in the
lake.

This is my problem :

The less-dominant dog viscously barks at
every other dog we walk past; I have tried
using a stick and giving her a tap when
she does it, and treating her with treats
when she doesn't, using a choke chain, a
muzzle and a thing that sprays stuff in
her mouth when she barks.

She won't stop! Does anyone know how I can stop her?

Also, the more-dominant dog seems to know
this is WRONG, when the other dog barks,
she doesn't bark, but she nips at the other
dog as if telling her to cut it out, and
then the barking one attacks the more-dominant
one and they fight on the leash... it is quite
disturbing to the people walking past.

And also the more-dominant one is okay around
other dogs... SOMETIMES... sometimes she completely
ignores them, and yet other times she will attack
them, like yesterday.

The less dominant one I must keep on a leash
if a person brings there dog to the park.

How do I stop them attacking other dogs? I have
tried all the methods I have used above for 10
months every afternoon. Is it just a pack-behaviour
thing?

It can really be quite embarrassing when your
dogs attack some old lady's or little girl's dog.

They are good dogs, when at home or when there are
no other dogs around. Today there were hundreds of
sparrows flying around the park and they were chasing
them and jumping up trying to catch them for more than
90 minutes (They went straight to bed when I bought
them home!). Can anyone help me? Email me at my emails
address, ali...@wasp.net.au coz this list is tooo crowded.

Thanks,
Nevyn

=====================

Never give out your password or credit card
number in an instant message conversation.

Nevyn says:
hello Jerry.

Jerry says:
HOWEDY Nevyn

Nevyn says:
How are you?

Jerry says:
sup?

Nevyn says:
Oh nothing

Nevyn says:

My dogs are alot better now!

Jerry says:
fine

Jerry says:
tell me

Nevyn says:
I can walk them on or off the leash and
they don't give a #@% about other dogs

Jerry says:
naah

Nevyn says:
I can let them inside and they wont eat the cats

Jerry says:
naah

Nevyn says:
Yup

Jerry says:
what did you do, buy a shock collar?

Nevyn says:
No

Nevyn says:
Praised them

Jerry says:
ahh!

Jerry says:
you think they're 100% better

Nevyn says:
'cept they still bark at the neighbour
but only coz he swears at them and pours
water on them

Nevyn says:
nahh they still have stinky breath!

Nevyn says:
muahaha

Jerry says:
ok

Jerry says:
I'll go for that

Jerry says:
it'll take a couple more days to break
the neighbor thing if you're consistent

Jerry says:
then he won't swear and throw water at them

Nevyn says:
yeah but he's only out on the weekends

Jerry says:
but they'll still have stinky breath

Nevyn says:
muahahaha

Jerry says:
you gonna write the group and tell
them they're suckin hind teat?

Nevyn says:
eh

Nevyn says:
nah

Nevyn says:
cant

Nevyn says:
my news server isn't workin

Nevyn says:
how about u just screenshot or copy this chat and post it

Jerry says:
why not.

Nevyn says:
sorry been tryin all day to get on the news server

Jerry says:
you got anything you'd like to tell the dog
lovers who would prefer to see you choke and
shock and lock your dogs in a box?

Jerry says:
I guess you don't want to tell them nuthin that they don't
already know, huh?

Nevyn says:
hah

Nevyn says:
tell them they're fuckers who need to die

Nevyn says:
dogs aren't for abusing they are for loving they love so much

Jerry says:
that's HOWE COME they got me now

Jerry says:
howe much training time did it take for the two of 'em?

Nevyn says:
pfftt

Nevyn says:
it didn't even seem like training

Nevyn says:
its been 24 days since I got your manual

Jerry says:
pfffttt!!!!

Jerry says:
hhahahahaha

Jerry says:
have you got that feeling that they're in tune
with EVERYTHING you're wanting them to do?

Jerry says:
I forgot what city you're in.

Jerry says:
maybe if you're near alphalpha sweeny you can swing
by and LAUGH your ass off at him growling at his dogs???

Jerry says:
BWWWHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

Nevyn says:
LOL

Nevyn says:
I'm in Perth, Australia!

Nevyn says:
and yes they do seem to be in tune

=====================

Nevyn says:

oh!! the other day my dogs went into submissive
position when a tiny little toy poodle came up
barking at them! !LOL

Jerry says:
EXCELLENT!

Nevyn says:
lol

Jerry says:
they knew they didn't need to fight, cause
everything was in your expert control.

Keep up the good work. j;~)
-----------------

Nevy'n was my SCARIEST Student, dog lovers.
He's now working as a professional trainer.

NHOWE get the heel HOWETA The Sincerely Incredibly


Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child,
Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog, Child, Kat And Horse Training Method Manual Forums <{); ~ ) >

Oh, and WON last point, PLEASE, paulie;
DO
NOT
EVER
FORGET:

I'm Jerry Howe, The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply

A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
G-R-A-N-D
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard <{} ; ~ ) >

BWEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHAAAAA!!!

Sionnach

unread,
Oct 17, 2006, 12:43:43 AM10/17/06
to

"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote": > I

> have explained that the only time I lost control of the leash was due to
> my being in an unbalanced position that was taught to me, if not by Janet,
> then by one of her instructors. I regret that this single accident has
> caused my wonderful dog to be labeled as dangerous, which puts me in such
> a precarious position of liability.


"Losing control of the leash" is not what caused the dog to be "labeled as
dangerous". The fact that he immediately took advantage of your lack of
control to attack and injure another dog is what caused that.


Paula

unread,
Oct 19, 2006, 2:33:39 AM10/19/06
to
On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 00:43:43 -0400, "Sionnach" <rhyf...@msn.com>
wrote:

This is the saddest part of what has happened on the AOL group. Paul,
being new to dog ownership, doesn't know what is normal or not normal
behavior for even a rescue or somewhat aggressive dog. Muttley's
response was not normal and would have happened eventually, no matter
what. Beyond that, Paul was in a position of liability before he ever
even set foot in Janet's class because his dog was already what would
be labeled a dangerous dog from things it had done at his home. I'm
not sure even if Diddy can rehab him that a rescue can rehome him. But
at least he'll be a better pet for Paul.

Robin Nuttall

unread,
Oct 19, 2006, 8:02:34 AM10/19/06
to
Paula wrote:
I'm
> not sure even if Diddy can rehab him that a rescue can rehome him. But
> at least he'll be a better pet for Paul.
>
>
I don't think so. I think that going back to Paul should be ruled out
right from the get-go. Paul has not demonstrated that he is either
willing or able to competently handle this dog. And even IF Diddy was
able to rehab the dog to be safe with HER, if the dog went back to Paul,
with his general lack of understanding (and unwillingness to take
responsibility for his, or Muttley's actions), he would very soon be
right back to square one.

I think the answer is to euthanize Muttley, because Paul is almost
certainly never going to be able to deal with him. I think what will
actually happen is that Paul will keep Muttley, and Muttley will end up
biting Paul or someone else, or attacking and perhaps this time succeed
in killing, another dog. And Paul will continue to be full of excuses as
to why it is NOT HIS FAULT.

shelly

unread,
Oct 19, 2006, 8:16:22 AM10/19/06
to
Robin Nuttall wrote:

> if the dog went back to Paul,
> with his general lack of understanding (and unwillingness to take
> responsibility for his, or Muttley's actions), he would very soon be
> right back to square one.

That's my take on it. Training the dog and sending it back to Paul
makes about as much sense as sending a dog to board-and-train when
the owner's handling the dog is a significant problem.

--
Shelly (Warning: see label for details)
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

Janet B

unread,
Oct 19, 2006, 8:37:16 AM10/19/06
to
On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 08:16:22 -0400, shelly <she...@cat-sidh.net>,

clicked their heels and said:

>
>That's my take on it. Training the dog and sending it back to Paul
>makes about as much sense as sending a dog to board-and-train when
>the owner's handling the dog is a significant problem.

But now he's met with a "behaviorist" (yes, I'm skeptical) who bashed
group classes (sure, the guy only teaches private training at big
bucks, why shouldn't he?), and he's been shown a kind and gentle way
of dealing with Muttley, so anyone in the area - keep an eye on the
trails - and watch your back. I really hope this doesn't come back to
bite Paul in the ass, literally or figuratively.

Meanwhile, he wants to return the prong collar "when he no longer has
use for it". I told him I would replace the strap, but he wants a
refund for defective product and has threatened all sorts of nasties
and that he's somewhat like Muttley and may bite. Lovely.

He'll get a refund when and if he returns the collar immediately (I'm
posting this here, just so he can see my words in B&W that everyone
else sees as well) and I agree that it's defective. Put the scissors
DOWN Paul, along with your hackles.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Lynne

unread,
Oct 19, 2006, 8:41:57 AM10/19/06
to
on Thu, 19 Oct 2006 12:37:16 GMT, Janet B
<ja...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> wrote:

> Meanwhile, he wants to return the prong collar "when he no longer has
> use for it". I told him I would replace the strap, but he wants a
> refund for defective product and has threatened all sorts of nasties
> and that he's somewhat like Muttley and may bite. Lovely.
>
> He'll get a refund when and if he returns the collar immediately (I'm
> posting this here, just so he can see my words in B&W that everyone
> else sees as well) and I agree that it's defective. Put the scissors
> DOWN Paul, along with your hackles.

wow. He wants an $8 (?) refund for a USED collar--that he probably still
should use--after you gave him training classes for free?? I'd send him a
replacement strap (and that would be generous) and tell him to shove it up
his ass.

- Lynne

Message has been deleted

shelly

unread,
Oct 19, 2006, 8:48:14 AM10/19/06
to
Janet B wrote:

> But now he's met with a "behaviorist" (yes, I'm skeptical) who bashed
> group classes

It's easy to bash the class environment Muttley was in, but it was
like pulling teeth to get Paul to do even *that* much. This is the
guy who--at that point--couldn't be arsed to walk the dog or bring
it indoors. Can you imagine Paul taking Muttley to a behaviorist in
the first place? I sure can't. So yeah, playing the "shoulda,
coulda" game might be entertaining, but those who are engaging in it
are lacking a significant piece of information about Paul's level of
motivation regarding dealing with his dog.

> (sure, the guy only teaches private training at big
> bucks, why shouldn't he?), and he's been shown a kind and gentle way
> of dealing with Muttley, so anyone in the area - keep an eye on the
> trails - and watch your back. I really hope this doesn't come back to
> bite Paul in the ass, literally or figuratively.

Where the hell is the rescue group in all of this? I know there are
crappy organizations out there, but surely even they don't want
their reputation affected by loosing a dog with an iffy temperament
on the world? Not to mention the financial liability, if Muttley
does attack another dog or person. (For that matter, were they even
informed that he has bitten a human and seriously bitten a dog?)

> Meanwhile, he wants to return the prong collar "when he no longer has
> use for it". I told him I would replace the strap, but he wants a
> refund for defective product and has threatened all sorts of nasties
> and that he's somewhat like Muttley and may bite. Lovely.

That *so* doesn't surprise me. Honestly, that's the sort of
weaselly vibe I've gotten from him from Day 1.

> He'll get a refund when and if he returns the collar immediately (I'm
> posting this here, just so he can see my words in B&W that everyone
> else sees as well) and I agree that it's defective. Put the scissors
> DOWN Paul, along with your hackles.

That seems reasonable to me. What is *not* reasonable is continuing
to use a product, with the expectation that you will get a refund
for it when it is no longer useful. That's called "renting" or
"leasing."

shelly

unread,
Oct 19, 2006, 8:53:22 AM10/19/06
to
diddy wrote:

> And this is the crux But I feel Paul is an intelligent man and if he
> brought a kennel with the dog.and brought him here, I believe he may have
> the commitment to change. I would have Muttley here until the renovations
> were finished.

Oh, I think Paul is intelligent, I just think he's got some
personality quirks that make him unsuitable as an owner for a dog
like Muttley.

> What I do fear, is the tendencies of Paul to be so critical of everything
> might tend to make me liable and fingers be pointed to me,should he fail
> to follow through causing Muttley to Relapse.

If I were you, I'd consider it seriously. It appears that no good,
generous deed goes unpunished. Even *I* would hate to see what's
happened to Janet happen to you. It's grossly unfair.

> I CAN train the dog.

I've no doubt of that, but training the dog and ensuring the dog
will be safe in Paul's hands are two different things. I get the
impression that Paul doesn't want to hurt poor Muttley-wuttley's
feelings. While there are dogs who would thrive and be perfectly
safe with that sort of owner, I don't think Muttley will ever be one
of them.

Melinda Shore

unread,
Oct 19, 2006, 9:00:06 AM10/19/06
to
In article <4ppagfF...@individual.net>,

shelly <she...@cat-sidh.net> wrote:
>That *so* doesn't surprise me. Honestly, that's the sort of
>weaselly vibe I've gotten from him from Day 1.

I don't think it's possible to know what kind of person Paul
is or is not based on interactions here, which are
necessarily very narrowly constrained. I do think it's
possible to talk about the things that have happened or have
not happened, and it seems to me that one of the things that
hasn't happened is for Paul to be explicit about his
expectations of Muttley, of Janet, of the newsgroup (for
whatever that's worth, which shouldn't be much), and
especially of himself. I think he started out fairly clear
about it (too many other commitments) and then things got
confused.

Another problem has been people saying "*I* can save that
dog!" and then either not actually trying to save the dog (I
freakin' hate excuses - put up or shut up). Saying the dog
can be saved is not the same thing as saving the dog, and to
a certain extent the "*I* can save that dog!" assertions
have something of a parallel in people buying exercise
equipment believing that owning it is enough to make them
fitter. You have to actually do the work or the assertion
is worthless.

--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com

There are 2,012 earmarks in the research section alone
of the GOP's latest defense bill.

TaraG

unread,
Oct 19, 2006, 9:04:43 AM10/19/06
to

"diddy" <di...@nospam.diddy.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9861593...@216.196.97.142...
> in thread news:4pp8knF...@individual.net: shelly <she...@cat-sidh.net>
> whittled the following words:

>
>>
>> That's my take on it. Training the dog and sending it back to Paul
>> makes about as much sense as sending a dog to board-and-train when
>> the owner's handling the dog is a significant problem.
>>
>>
>
> And this is the crux But I feel Paul is an intelligent man and if he
> brought a kennel with the dog.and brought him here, I believe he may have
> the commitment to change. I would have Muttley here until the renovations
> were finished.
>
> What I do fear, is the tendencies of Paul to be so critical of everything
> might tend to make me liable and fingers be pointed to me,should he fail
> to follow through causing Muttley to Relapse.
>
> I CAN train the dog.

That's where contracts releasing you from ALL liability come in. I hope.

Though if it didn't work, I guess he'd be asking for a refund on the gas
money he spent getting Muttley to your house. bleh.

Tara


Message has been deleted

Amy Dahl

unread,
Oct 19, 2006, 9:41:11 AM10/19/06
to

diddy wrote:

> in thread news:4pp8knF...@individual.net: shelly <she...@cat-sidh.net>
> whittled the following words:
>
> >

> > That's my take on it. Training the dog and sending it back to Paul
> > makes about as much sense as sending a dog to board-and-train when
> > the owner's handling the dog is a significant problem.
> >
> >
>

> And this is the crux But I feel Paul is an intelligent man and if he
> brought a kennel with the dog.and brought him here, I believe he may have
> the commitment to change. I would have Muttley here until the renovations
> were finished.
>
> What I do fear, is the tendencies of Paul to be so critical of everything
> might tend to make me liable and fingers be pointed to me,should he fail
> to follow through causing Muttley to Relapse.
>
> I CAN train the dog.

As someone who does board training, I am familiar with this
uncertainty. I have had at least one dog with pretty bad, owner-
caused problems where a word to the owner was sufficient. He
applied himself to learning better handling and changing his
habits while I trained the dog, and they've done great together.
I have had the other extreme, too--people who are clearly
intelligent, but even though I tried to focus their attention on the
one or two most important things to keeping the dog on the
right track, they haven't done it.

Training retrievers as hunting dogs gives me a huge advantage,
though. The owners take the dogs hunting and most of the dogs
quickly conclude that the owner holds the key to everything good.
I can't see how I could make training stick without that
motivation.

Amy Dahl

shelly

unread,
Oct 19, 2006, 9:45:32 AM10/19/06
to
Melinda Shore wrote:

> I don't think it's possible to know what kind of person Paul
> is or is not based on interactions here, which are
> necessarily very narrowly constrained.

Absolutely. There is sometimes no accounting for vibes, and as
illogical as they are, I get 'em about people and it's very hard for
me not to react accordingly. I'm not saying that's a good thing,
either.

> I do think it's
> possible to talk about the things that have happened or have
> not happened, and it seems to me that one of the things that
> hasn't happened is for Paul to be explicit about his
> expectations of Muttley, of Janet, of the newsgroup (for
> whatever that's worth, which shouldn't be much), and
> especially of himself.

While he hasn't been explicit about them, I think it's become pretty
clear what some of his expectations are for Janet and the newsgroup.
Agreed on his expectations for himself and Muttley, though,
especially of late. What *is* his goal?

> I think he started out fairly clear
> about it (too many other commitments) and then things got
> confused.

I don't know that "clear" is how I'd describe Paul's initial posts
here. His ultimate points may have been well described, but the
meandering manner of his posts made my brane ache to a degree that I
had trouble finishing many of them.

People who wander all over the place and can't get to the frigging
point drive me batshit crazy. My last two bosses had the same
problem, and would start a story in the middle, then slowly get
around to the beginning, then the end. Kill me now!

> Saying the dog
> can be saved is not the same thing as saving the dog,

Oh yeah. Shrieking "You're a cruel meanypants because you would
even consider euthing a dog that *I* could save," is really easy
when you are in no danger of having to actually take any of the
responsibility for working with the dog.

Handsome Jack Morrison

unread,
Oct 19, 2006, 11:13:09 AM10/19/06
to
On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 10:45:36 -0400, Handsome Jack Morrison
<handsomeja...@gmail.com> wrote:

[]


>>wow. He wants an $8 (?) refund for a USED collar--that he probably still
>>should use--after you gave him training classes for free?? I'd send him a
>>replacement strap (and that would be generous) and tell him to shove it up
>>his ass.

I like your style!

Especially that last part.

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

Janet B

unread,
Oct 19, 2006, 11:35:19 AM10/19/06
to
On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 08:20:13 -0500, diddy <di...@nospam.diddy.net>,

clicked their heels and said:

>
>Exactly.Especially if he's seeing a behaviorist using such gentle methods
>that he no longer needs a collar to control the dog. (JH?)

The "behaviorist" threw food out and then gave him a hard correction
with the prong collar for going for it. I have no idea what that was
about.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

shelly

unread,
Oct 19, 2006, 11:37:52 AM10/19/06
to
Janet B wrote:

> The "behaviorist" threw food out and then gave him a hard correction
> with the prong collar for going for it. I have no idea what that was
> about.

Perhaps he's trying to create food-related aggression issues?

Message has been deleted

Handsome Jack Morrison

unread,
Oct 19, 2006, 11:54:22 AM10/19/06
to
On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 11:35:19 -0400, Janet B
<ja...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 08:20:13 -0500, diddy <di...@nospam.diddy.net>,
>clicked their heels and said:
>
>>
>>Exactly.Especially if he's seeing a behaviorist using such gentle methods
>>that he no longer needs a collar to control the dog. (JH?)
>
>The "behaviorist" threw food out and then gave him a hard correction
>with the prong collar for going for it. I have no idea what that was
>about.

Question: Where are you getting this stuff?

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

Message has been deleted

Janet B

unread,
Oct 19, 2006, 12:01:46 PM10/19/06
to
On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 11:54:22 -0400, Handsome Jack Morrison
<handsomeja...@gmail.com>, clicked their heels and said:

>
>Question: Where are you getting this stuff?

CBB - "Attacks in Class" thread. He posted this morning about his
meeting with the "behaviorist".

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Handsome Jack Morrison

unread,
Oct 19, 2006, 12:03:29 PM10/19/06
to
On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 10:55:50 -0500, diddy <di...@nospam.diddy.net>
wrote:

[]


>>>The "behaviorist" threw food out and then gave him a hard correction
>>>with the prong collar for going for it. I have no idea what that was
>>>about.
>>
>> Question: Where are you getting this stuff?
>>
>

>From posts here

Where did Paul ever say anything like that *here*???

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

Handsome Jack Morrison

unread,
Oct 19, 2006, 12:06:46 PM10/19/06