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Bitch won't stop peeing on the floor

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Ted Mittelstaedt

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Dec 1, 2008, 7:16:11 PM12/1/08
to
Hi All,

We are at our wits end on this.

We got a 1 year old German Shorthair/terrier mix about a month ago.
(shelter dog) She
is about half the size of a typical black lab.

When we got her she wasn't housebroken all that well (what do you expect I
guess)

We applied the usual housebreak training tricks and got her to stop
pooping in the house. But,
she seems to almost be fighting us about the peeing.

Her usual day is we get up at 6am and let her out of her crate, then take
her immediately
outside where she pees and poops. Then we go inside and eat breakfast,
shower and such.

Generally sometime before 8am she has peed on the floor. It's maybe about
a half tablespoon
or so. We can take her out immediately and she will pee some more, in other
words she isn't
just dumping her bladder. We have taken her to the vet and she is fine.

I've caught her in the act and yelled at her, so have some other family
members. She definitely
knows she isn't supposed to be doing this - if I put her on the leash to go
out and even go near
whatever spot she peed at she will avoid it. And she is very sneaky about
when she pees - she
only pees if she thinks that nobody is paying attention to her.

We can put her in her crate and she is fine - she has never peed or pooped
in her crate, even
when left in her crate for hours at a time (as when we are out at work)

She is a very active dog and likes to go outside. I have observed that if
she is taken outside
quite a lot during the day - like, almost hourly - she doesen't seem to pee
in the house as much, but
at this point it is a trust issue - none of us can trust she won't pee if we
turn our back on her when she
is out of her crate. So we are putting her in her crate more and more, even
when people are at
home. This isn't good for her I am sure and we don't like it either.

Both my wife and I have grown up with dogs and we don't mind an occassional
mess and we understand
a dog is going to pee on the floor if they aren't let out when they need to
go. But, this is getting rediculous.
We can't have a dog that will pee on the floor every 2 hours when free to
run about the place,
but is perfectly able to hold it for 4-5 hours if crated, and doesen't pee
if lying on our bed, sofa, etc.
We feel sure that she is turning this pee on the floor thing into some sort
of power struggle/attention
getting mechanism. But she gets plenty of attention already - when we are
home in the evening we
are always petting her or letting her lie on the sofa when we are watching
TV, and our kids pay her
a lot of attention when they are home from school.

Any suggestions on how to curb this would be most appreciated!

Ted


montana wildhack

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Dec 1, 2008, 8:23:08 PM12/1/08
to
On 2008-12-01 19:16:11 -0500, "Ted Mittelstaedt" <te...@toybox.placo.com> said:

> We have taken her to the vet and she is fine.

Maybe she isn't fine.

I assume you did at least a urine test. Is she spayed? Could she have
spay incontinence? Is this submissive peeing?

Yelling at her will not do any good.

You need to use a special enzyme cleaner to really get rid if the smell
of urine.

I would also highly recommend that you do training with your dog to
build her confidence.

Good luck.

Dale Atkin

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Dec 1, 2008, 9:48:11 PM12/1/08
to
Comments interspersed.

"Ted Mittelstaedt" <te...@toybox.placo.com> wrote in message
news:cbbe06-...@news.ipinc.net...


> Hi All,
>
> We are at our wits end on this.
>
> We got a 1 year old German Shorthair/terrier mix about a month ago.
> (shelter dog) She
> is about half the size of a typical black lab.
>
> When we got her she wasn't housebroken all that well (what do you expect
> I guess)
>
> We applied the usual housebreak training tricks and got her to stop
> pooping in the house.

Can you outline 'the usual tricks'? Want to know if we're talking about the
same thing.

> But,
> she seems to almost be fighting us about the peeing.

I wouldn't assume that from what you've written (although I can understand
how you might draw that conclusion, I'd not be drawing it myself from what
you've written)

>
> Her usual day is we get up at 6am and let her out of her crate, then take
> her immediately
> outside where she pees and poops. Then we go inside and eat breakfast,
> shower and such.
>
> Generally sometime before 8am she has peed on the floor. It's maybe
> about a half tablespoon
> or so.

So it doesn't sound like her bladder is full. She's peeing for some other
reason.

> We have taken her to the vet and she is fine.

Specifically what tests have you done?

>
> I've caught her in the act and yelled at her, so have some other family
> members.

You've got to be very careful with this kind of thing. One likely outcome is
that she will simply learn not to pee when you're watching.

>She definitely
> knows she isn't supposed to be doing this - if I put her on the leash to
> go out and even go near
> whatever spot she peed at she will avoid it. And she is very sneaky about
> when she pees - she
> only pees if she thinks that nobody is paying attention to her.

See above comment. She may simply have learned that peeing when you're
watching is a bad idea, not that peeing in the house is a bad idea in
general. In fact that could be part of her issue.

> So we are putting her in her crate more and more, even when people are at
> home. This isn't good for her I am sure and we don't like it either.

One possible 'compromise' is tether training. Put her on leash when you're
home. Keep a close eye on her, and watch her for signs of 'doing the potty
dance', and then rush outside and praise/treat her when she pees.

> We feel sure that she is turning this pee on the floor thing into some
> sort of power struggle/attention
> getting mechanism.

Again, I wouldn't draw that conclusion from what you've told me. Its
tempting, but I think its far more likely that she just hasn't generalized
to the must pee outside of the house rule.

> Any suggestions on how to curb this would be most appreciated!
>
> Ted

I'd like to revisit the medical tests you've done. I assume this included a
urine stick. What looking at it under the microscope?

What kind of 'posture' does she assume when she pees?
Could it be painful for her to pee?
How have you let her know the right place to pee?
Does she always pee on the same kind of surface?
In the same place?
How have you cleaned this space?
If the same place, can you restrict access to that space?
Was she spayed when she came to the shelter, or did the shelter spay her?

My course of action right now (assuming we can rule out medical, which would
be my first inclination), would be to crate her when ever you can't watch
her, and keep her on leash when ever she's out of her crate. When you think
she might be getting ready to pee, take her outside, treat/praise etc. every
time she pees where she's supposed to (maybe even specify one particular
surface for her to pee on, like dirt or rocks so that she can definitely
tell the difference).

Hope that helps, and be sure to keep us in the loop,

Dale

Ted Mittelstaedt

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Dec 2, 2008, 12:42:04 AM12/2/08
to

"Dale Atkin" <labr...@ibycus.com> wrote in message
news:Ll1Zk.1794$si6.1429@edtnps83...

> Comments interspersed.
>
> "Ted Mittelstaedt" <te...@toybox.placo.com> wrote in message
> news:cbbe06-...@news.ipinc.net...
> > Hi All,
> >
> > We are at our wits end on this.
> >
> > We got a 1 year old German Shorthair/terrier mix about a month ago.
> > (shelter dog) She
> > is about half the size of a typical black lab.
> >
> > When we got her she wasn't housebroken all that well (what do you
expect
> > I guess)
> >
> > We applied the usual housebreak training tricks and got her to stop
> > pooping in the house.
>
> Can you outline 'the usual tricks'? Want to know if we're talking about
the
> same thing.
>

Every time she pooped outdoors we praised her, "good doggie" the usual
thing.
I'm sure it provided lots of amusement to passers by to see us saying "good
poopie" "good doggie" and so on to the dog when she just took a dump or
peed outside. The few times she pooped in the house we immediately moved
the poop outside and made sure that when we took her out she smelled it.

> > But,
> > she seems to almost be fighting us about the peeing.
>
> I wouldn't assume that from what you've written (although I can understand
> how you might draw that conclusion, I'd not be drawing it myself from what
> you've written)
>
> >
> > Her usual day is we get up at 6am and let her out of her crate, then
take
> > her immediately
> > outside where she pees and poops. Then we go inside and eat breakfast,
> > shower and such.
> >
> > Generally sometime before 8am she has peed on the floor. It's maybe
> > about a half tablespoon
> > or so.
>
> So it doesn't sound like her bladder is full. She's peeing for some other
> reason.
>
> > We have taken her to the vet and she is fine.
>
> Specifically what tests have you done?
>

I wasn't given a list by the vet. The ved did find giardia which we had to
give her 5 mg of this white stuff for 7 days to get rid of. I also had her
tested for heartworm and put her on heartworm meds. We don't have
a large incidence of heartworm in our area, but the meds are so cheap
espically if you get them online that it's kind of pennywise/pound foolish
to not do it.

> >
> > I've caught her in the act and yelled at her, so have some other family
> > members.
>
> You've got to be very careful with this kind of thing. One likely outcome
is
> that she will simply learn not to pee when you're watching.
>
> >She definitely
> > knows she isn't supposed to be doing this - if I put her on the leash to
> > go out and even go near
> > whatever spot she peed at she will avoid it. And she is very sneaky
about
> > when she pees - she
> > only pees if she thinks that nobody is paying attention to her.
>
> See above comment. She may simply have learned that peeing when you're
> watching is a bad idea, not that peeing in the house is a bad idea in
> general. In fact that could be part of her issue.
>

She has no problems peeing outside, whether on leash or not. Quite often
when
I take her out (I usually take her out in the evening) we won't have walked
more
than 100 feet before she pees in the grass strip between the sidewalk and
the
street.

> > So we are putting her in her crate more and more, even when people are
at
> > home. This isn't good for her I am sure and we don't like it either.
>
> One possible 'compromise' is tether training. Put her on leash when you're
> home. Keep a close eye on her, and watch her for signs of 'doing the potty
> dance', and then rush outside and praise/treat her when she pees.
>

The one time I tried putting her on a leash inside, within 5 minutes she had
chewed through it. (obviously I wasn't watching her) After that I managed
to
find an old metal chain leash
at a secondhand store. (I don't understand why all the leashes you see in
the stores today are fabric straps, but what do I know) She likes chewing
and has her rubber chew toys and we also give her a raw bone (beef
knuckle, generally) every 3-4 days, so along with the rubber toys she
usually has a few old bones around that we haven't tossed out yet.

We caught her testing the table leg a few times and scolded her and
that seems to have taken care of it. She is also very good off leash, will
come when called and all of that.

If we had the time to constantly keep a close eye on her when we are in
the house we wouldn't have this problem. But there's only so many hours
in the day - I get home around 6pm and go to bed at 10pm - to do that
would require me watching her constantly for 4 hours in the evening, and
it's just out of the question. We have to do mundane things like eat, wash
dishes, put kids to bed, pay bills, etc. not to mention walking the dog in
the evenings. It would be nice to work
at one of those fantasy jobs that the people in the soap operas work at
where
they seem to have unlimited time to do whatever, but training that depends
on
that is simply unrealistic for most people.

In general in the evening we don't have this problem. We have to
crate her during dinner because the kids will feed her scraps under the
table otherwise, but once dinner is over we let her out, and she is
available to interact with the family. Generally around 9pm she is
satisfied
to lie down on the sofa. We take her out once when I get home and once
later before bed and she is fine with that, and we have no problems with
peeing in the evening.

We also do not feed her after 5pm and we stop putting food in her bowl
around 3pm, she generally finishes it off before 5. She has water all of
the
time, of course. We have had rats before in this house (sewer break in
the neighborhood, and the house was built in 1911) and everything
edible is either stored in steel or stored outside (where the rats can
fight the possums for it) We never allow uneaten dog food in her
bowl overnight.

Most of the peeing seems to happen in the morning or afternoon, when
my wife is distracted with taking care of the kids. That is one of the
problems
as well.

> > We feel sure that she is turning this pee on the floor thing into some
> > sort of power struggle/attention
> > getting mechanism.
>
> Again, I wouldn't draw that conclusion from what you've told me. Its
> tempting, but I think its far more likely that she just hasn't generalized
> to the must pee outside of the house rule.
>

Well I am hoping that that is it.

> > Any suggestions on how to curb this would be most appreciated!
> >
> > Ted
>
> I'd like to revisit the medical tests you've done. I assume this included
a
> urine stick. What looking at it under the microscope?
>

I don't know. I'll call the vet and ask about this. Perhaps they
didn't do as good a job as I had assumed.

> What kind of 'posture' does she assume when she pees?
> Could it be painful for her to pee?

I don't think so. Her posture is the typical bitch-squat posture, it
doesen't
seem any different than any other bitches I've seen or lived with, and it
is no different inside or outside.

> How have you let her know the right place to pee?

:-) Other than peeing myself (not really feasible in the city) where
I want her to pee, and praising her when she does pee outside, I
don't know what else I can do.

> Does she always pee on the same kind of surface?

Not really. In the house she has never peed on anything other than
the carpet, but we have wall to wall carpeting except in the kitchen.
Outside, she has peed on grass and leaves on grass.

We live a block from an elementary school with a large field, so
when we take her out, we generally go there and let her off leash so
she can run. Everyone else with dogs in the neighborhood does this
also and in the evenings after the field is opened to the public there's
usually 3-4 of us with our dogs out there playing ball-chuck or
whatever. She loves that time, her favorite thing is chasing larger
dogs, and she is fast enough to keep up (and, outrun the fatter ones)

> In the same place?

That is semi-random. Right now we have her confined to the kitchen, living
& dining
room. She has peed a couple times in the bedrooms, and isn't allowed in
them
unless very closely supervised. There aren't a lot of places to pee where
she
is allowed access to, so she tends to stay in the same area when she
pees, but not always.

> How have you cleaned this space?

We blot it up then spray on Fabrese (probably spelled that wrong) I
don't think it's an enzyme/organic animal deodorizor, any suggestions
you have would be appreciated. Fortunately, the carpets had been
needing to be cleaned right before we got her and we have delayed
doing this until we were sure there would be no accidents.

> If the same place, can you restrict access to that space?

Not easily. One place she peed was 6 inches from the front door.

> Was she spayed when she came to the shelter, or did the shelter spay her?
>

We have a vet receipt that was in her file that states she was spayed.

> My course of action right now (assuming we can rule out medical, which
would
> be my first inclination), would be to crate her when ever you can't watch
> her, and keep her on leash when ever she's out of her crate. When you
think
> she might be getting ready to pee, take her outside, treat/praise etc.
every
> time she pees where she's supposed to (maybe even specify one particular
> surface for her to pee on, like dirt or rocks so that she can definitely
> tell the difference).
>

It's very difficult to get her to pee by just walking 5 steps from the porch
to the yard and just standing there. She rarely does it even when she needs
to go.
We have to start walking down the sidewalk and if she needs to go she will
pee within 20 steps or so. And we have -never- got her to poop unless
we walk her at least a block.

Part of the problem is that my wife, who
supervises her during the day (when she is home) is rather hesitant (in my
opinion) to use the crate. Ruby (the dog) doesen't like being crated when
there's anything interesting going on in the house and if put into the crate
will sometimes whine to get out. The crate is right in the kitchen which is
pretty close to most of the activity in the house, so she is able to see and
be near us when she is in the crate. I always crate her when we go to bed,
so she sleeps in the crate. Generally she is happy enough to be crated at
night. During the day, when my wife knows she will be gone for more than
4 hours at a time, she will put a fresh bone in the crate to keep the dog
occupied. At this point we always crate her when the house is going to
be empty.

> Hope that helps, and be sure to keep us in the loop,
>

Will do.

Ted

> Dale
>


Ted Mittelstaedt

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Dec 2, 2008, 12:53:26 AM12/2/08
to

"montana wildhack" <mon...@wildhack.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:2008120120230816807-montana@wildhackcominvalid...

> On 2008-12-01 19:16:11 -0500, "Ted Mittelstaedt" <te...@toybox.placo.com>
said:
>
> > We have taken her to the vet and she is fine.
>
> Maybe she isn't fine.
>
> I assume you did at least a urine test. Is she spayed? Could she have
> spay incontinence? Is this submissive peeing?
>

How would I tell spay incontinence?

I don't think it's submissive peeing. I've seen dogs do that before and
I've never seen her squat when anyone has approached her. She isn't
easily rattled. We think part of her heritage must be a hunting breed, I've
seen her stand there and have a truck horn go off unexpectedly that
caused me to jump, and she ignores it, she also goes wild when she
sees a bird or a squirrl and I've seen her go into a point at a tree with
squirrls in it. I've also seen her snap at the throat of a larger dog that
was
doing dominance jumping on her that was obviously crossing the doggy line.

> Yelling at her will not do any good.
>

By "yelling" I really don't mean the yell like a fishwife nagging, I mean
saying her name very sharply and loudly when catching her doing it.

> You need to use a special enzyme cleaner to really get rid if the smell
> of urine.
>
> I would also highly recommend that you do training with your dog to
> build her confidence.
>

I really don't think it's a confidence thing. When we first got her she
was a lot more timid and very demanding of attention, but since then
she has become a lot more confident. I just don't think that it's a
confidence issue with a dog that the second you leave the kitchen
she is jumping up on the table and walking around looking for
scraps to eat. (we caught her doing that once, but she is of the size
that when she stands on her hind legs her head is at the stove and
table top level, and she will definitely inspect those areas for good
things to eat when we aren't looking)

> Good luck.
>

Thanks!

Ted


Janet Boss

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Dec 2, 2008, 7:01:49 AM12/2/08
to
In article <abue06-...@news.ipinc.net>,
"Ted Mittelstaedt" <te...@toybox.placo.com> wrote:

> The one time I tried putting her on a leash inside, within 5 minutes she had
> chewed through it. (obviously I wasn't watching her) After that I managed
> to
> find an old metal chain leash
> at a secondhand store. (I don't understand why all the leashes you see in
> the stores today are fabric straps, but what do I know)

Leashes of fabric or leather are much preferred for walking and
training. Chain leashes weigh on a dog's collar and teaching walking on
a loose leash makes less sense with that pressure.

> If we had the time to constantly keep a close eye on her when we are in
> the house we wouldn't have this problem. But there's only so many hours
> in the day - I get home around 6pm and go to bed at 10pm - to do that
> would require me watching her constantly for 4 hours in the evening, and
> it's just out of the question. We have to do mundane things like eat, wash
> dishes, put kids to bed, pay bills, etc. not to mention walking the dog in
> the evenings.

Join the club. My dogs are pretty much WITH me when I'm doing those
things. Warming my feet, hanging out nearby.

>
> In general in the evening we don't have this problem. We have to
> crate her during dinner because the kids will feed her scraps under the
> table otherwise,

That is a KID training issue. Teach BOTH of them table manners!

> We also do not feed her after 5pm and we stop putting food in her bowl
> around 3pm, she generally finishes it off before 5.

Free feeding is a really bad idea for a dog with elimination problems
(and IMO, not a good idea for most dogs). Start by scheduling her
feedings and giving her a limited time to eat.

> Most of the peeing seems to happen in the morning or afternoon, when
> my wife is distracted with taking care of the kids. That is one of the
> problems
> as well.

There are several options depending on the age of your children, their
needs that need attending, and the layout of your home. Keeping the dog
WITH the group, in some way, is the most helpful. That can be tethered
to an object or mom, gated in the same room (or doors shut to keep her
in the same room) etc.

You also mentioned a 2 hour window of her urinating and when she has
peed on the floor. Typically, MOST dogs (and especially young ones)
here have gone out at 6, peed, then fed (expected to eat all of the
food) then out again for more pee and poop, by 6:15. With a puppy or
not fully trained dog, I would have them out again at 7:15. Not too
hard if you have a fenced yard, but quick no matter what. Then again
before people leave for the day. How long is she crated during the day?
Sometimes, having to "hold it" for long periods can mess with the
natural rhythm of the bladder.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

montana wildhack

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Dec 2, 2008, 9:04:22 AM12/2/08
to
On 2008-12-02 00:53:26 -0500, "Ted Mittelstaedt" <te...@toybox.placo.com> said:

> How would I tell spay incontinence?

She's really young for that sort of thing, but incontinence is usually
seen as "leaking".

Thank you so much for coming back and having a dialogue.

One poster had recommended tethering her to you as one might do when
doing initial housetraining to ensure that you get her outside if she
starts sniffing. This would also eliminate counter-surfing when you
aren't looking.

Among other things, if she is favoring the carpet, she is probably
still smelling urine: hers or another dog's. You can get a small black
light at pet stores to check for urine. That's where the enzyme
cleaners are your friend.

It does sound like you need to work on training! That can help with
several issues you are experiencing.

Please keep us informed of your progress.

Spot

unread,
Dec 2, 2008, 1:17:16 PM12/2/08
to
You can not delay cleaning a carpet after a dog has an accident.

Because it's not being cleaned immediately the dog smells the urine and will
keep going back to that spot again and again. I would suggest getting an
enzyme cleaner and invest in a hand held rug scrubber and get to work on the
places she's had accidents. You will never get anywhere with the peeing
issue if you don't clean the carpets. I may take multiple scrubbings to get
the odor out. I had one particular spot that the pup kept going to. I
scrubbed it 5 days in a row to make sure I got all the odor out and that
finally eliminated the problem.

Celeste


Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory

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Dec 3, 2008, 5:57:45 PM12/3/08
to
HOWEDY Ted,

"Ted Mittelstaedt" <te...@toybox.placo.com> wrote in message
news:cbbe06-...@news.ipinc.net...
> Hi All,

You mean 'HOWEDY Gang Of Pathetic Miserable Stinkin
Rotten Lyin Animal Murderin Punk Thug Coward Active
Acute Chronic Life-Long INCURABLE Malignant Malici-
HOWES MENTAL CASES who jerk choke shock bribe
crate intimidate an surgically sexually MUTILATE innocent
defenseless dumb critters an LIE abHOWET it' <{}: ~ ( >

I'm Jerry Howe, The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin
Insanely Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey,
SpHOWES, And Horsey Wizard, Director Of
Trainin an Research, Wits' End Training Method
Manual Forums And Human And Animal Behavior
Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory <{}'; ~ ) >

I've got forty five years of EXXXPERIENCE raising
and training mostly giant breed working dogs for families
and security specializing in temperament and behavior
problems and protection <{}: ~ ) >

> We are at our wits end on this.

Well then, you've come to the RIGHT place~!

WELCOME to The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely
Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master Puppy, Child,
Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES, And Horsey
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Training Method
Manual Forums And Human And Animal Behavior Forensic
Sciences Research Laboratory <{}'; ~ ) >

I see you've met HOWER Gang Of Pathetic Miserable
Stinkin Rotten Lyin Animal Murderin Punk Thug
Coward Active Acute Chronic Life-Long INCURABLE
Malignant MaliciHOWES MENTAL CASES who jerk
choke shock bribe crate intimidate an surgically sexually
MUTILATE innocent defenseless dumb critters an LIE
abHOWET it, who's own dogs GOT THE SAME FUCKIN
PROBLEM for the SAME FUCKIN REASONS <{}: ~ ( >

> We got a 1 year old German Shorthair/terrier mix about a month ago.
> (shelter dog) She is about half the size of a typical black lab.

Well then, you shouldn't have NO doGdameneD PROBLEM
for jerkin an chokin an shockin your dog to MAKE IT naturally
WANT to DO ANY THING you ask <{}: ~ ) >

> When we got her she wasn't housebroken all that well

That so, Ted? THAT'S a LOAD of BULLSHIT.

HOWEsbreakin is a critters MOST NORMAL, NATURAL,
INNATE, INSTINCTIVE, REFELXIVE behavior startin at
FOUR WEEKS of age; actually, it starts at THREE weeks,
HOWEver, MOST of your newfHOWEND Pathetic Miserable
Stinkin Rotten Lyin Animal Murderin Punk Thug Coward Active
Acute Chronic Life-Long INCURABLE Malignant MaliciHOWES
MENTAL CASE PALS who jerk choke shock bribe crate intimidate
an surgically sexually MUTILATE innocent defenseless dumb
critters an LIE abHOWET it, wouldn't ever NOTICE <{}: ~ ( >

> (what do you expect I guess)

The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing,
Majestic Grand Master Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat,
Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES, And Horsey Wizard, Director
Of Trainin an Research, Wits' End Training Method Manual
Forums And Human And Animal Behavior Forensic Sciences
Research Laboratory would EXXXPECT a savvy EXXXPERIENCED
news group poster such as yourself woulda SEARCED the ARCHIVES
for a SOLUTION to your "dogs' PROBLEM", instead of INCITING
these LYIN ANIMAL MURDERIN MENTAL CASES <{}'; ~ ) >

> We applied the usual housebreak training tricks

Ahhh; The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
Amazing, Majestic Grand Master Puppy, Child, Pussy,
Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES, And Horsey
Wizard, Director Of Trainin an Research, Wits' End
Training Method Manual Forums And Human And
Animal Behavior Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory
AIN'T NEVER trained a TRICK dog; HE TEACHES
folks ALL OVER the WHOWEL WILD WORLD HOWE
to PUPPERLY handle, raise an train ALL critters to
ALL behaviors NEARLY INSTANTLY, simply by
DOIN EVERY THING EXXXACTLY PRECISELY
OPPOSITE of HOWE your newfHOWEND pathetic
ignorameHOWE punk thug coward MENTAL CASE
PALS prefer <{}'; ~ ) >

> and got her to stop pooping in the house.

I've waited a couple days for the ignorameHOWESES
to give your their sage ADVICE, Ted; you had any
LUCK thus far?

> But, she seems to almost be fighting us about the peeing.

INDEED?

There's ONLY TWO REASONS HOWE COME a critter
would shit an piss in *YOUR* HOWES, Ted:

1. They're SICK

OR

2. They're UNHAPPY.

PERHAPS you should take your HAPPY puppy to the vet?

> Her usual day is we get up at 6am and let her out of her crate,

Dogs just LOVE bein LOCKED IN BOXES and IGNORED
or better yet, SPRAYED IN THE FACE for barkin an whining.

LIKE THIS:

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

AND LIKE THIS:

On 6 Feb 2006 17:41:08 GMT, Mary Healey
<mhhea...@iastate.edu>,
clicked their heels and said:

> Does that include tone of voice? Some tools are easier
> to ban than others.

yes - screaming banshees are told to shut up! And I
always have to remind spouses that they may NOT do the
"honey - you're supposed to be doing it like THIS"......
--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com


"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction" --Janet Boss

Here's janet's CUSTOME MADE pronged spiked pinch choke collar:
http://tinyurl.com/5m6ppt

BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!

"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828...@mb-m18.aol.com...

> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
> Janet Boss

"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1...@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...

> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916...@mb-m17.aol.com...
> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.

An INSENSITIVE DOG???

> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
Do you think the citronella collar is CRUEL
cause the SMELL LINGERS after the dog's
been sprayed in the face and the dog won't
know HOWE COME IT was MACED?

janet CONtinues:
> > My dogs are not human children wearing fur- they are DOGS.
> > I don't have anything against electronic bark collars, but they
> > should be used in conjunction with actually working at training
> > your dog(s).

They're DUMB ANIMALS these MENTALLY ILL LYING
DOG ABUSERS HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER.

-------------------

LIKE THIS:

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "CourteHOWES Canine."

"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?

When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first
time, spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth
and walk away. The dog won't be too thrilled with
this but just ignore him and continue your normal
behavior."
--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"CourteHOWES Canines"

SEE?

> then take her immediately outside where she pees and poops.

That's KINDLY of you, Ted~!

> Then we go inside and eat breakfast, shower and such.

A WIZE idea <{}: ~ ) >

> Generally sometime before 8am she has peed on the floor.

Naaaah?

> It's maybe about a half tablespoon or so.

Oh, well THAT sounds like "spay / neuter incontinence"
OR a urinary tract infection CAUSED BY lockin your
dog in a box an IGNORING ITS CRIES and withholding
his food an water JUST LIKE HOWE your newfHOWEND
Pathetic Miserable Stinkin Rotten Lyin Animal Murderin
Punk Thug Coward Active Acute Chronic Life-Long
INCURABLE Malignant MaliciHOWES MENTAL CASE
PALS PREFER <{}: ~ ( >

LIKE THIS:

From: Janet B <ja...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com>
Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 15:23:53 -0400

Subject: urinary leaking

Rudy has a vet appointment tomorrow afternoon,
but I thought I'd throw this out here anyway.

Rudy has excitement urination sometimes - if I spend too long before
coming into the house, he may flood his crate. This is generally only
if I've been gone over 4 hours. He does not have water in his crate.

Rudy sleeps through the night (10-6 or 7) and never has an issue
with leaking then. He is housebroken and waits until I let him out.

A few times over the last month, after I've been gone a bit over
5 hours, I've come home, let him out where he pees up a storm,
then he is fed, out again, maybe multiple times (for play, etc)
and eliminates normally. Then he naps. When he's sleeping,
he leaks.

Baseball-Softball sized puddle generally. Yesterday, I as home
with him all day, gone for <2 hours in the early evening, and late
in the evening, right before bed, he leaked again while sleeping.

This doesn't strike me as an infection or even a sphincter issue,
but it has me puzzled. He has no idea he's doing it and it doesn't
wake him.

Any thoughts?
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

-------------------------

From: J1Boss (j1b...@aol.com)
Subject: Re: Aggression: Follow-up, still need help
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Date: 1998/11/09

lesaigle writes (re dog aggression):

> Are there other ways besides
> grabbing the scruff of his neck?
>
> Erin -

I think your behaviorist is wrong in her approach.
On the other hand, you want to avoid getting bitten.
This is a situation where I would use a "kennel lead"
AND a NILIF routine. First - the NILIF - basically,
everything should be on YOUR terms.

If the dog wants to be petted/play ball/whatever, he
must do something that you ask first. No pawing at
you, no grabbing you, no biting you. Eliminate treats
Exercise the hell out of the little guy.

Practice every obedience command you know, and use
them in practical purposes. Make the dog sit (or even
better yet - DOWN) and stay before being given PERMISSION
to eat. Don't let the dog decide ANYTHING - everything
should be done because YOU want to, not him.

Now, the kennel lead. Basically, dog on chair (which is
going to be a no-no, invited or not), growls at you when
you tell him to get off?

Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him
a stern correction, popping him off the furniture as you
do. Still snarly? Hold him off with the leash and ask
him to sit.

Hold him off enough for him to "chill", then go
through a short obedience routine.

During the evening, put him on a leash (with a choke
collar), and make him down near your chair/sofa while
you read, watch tv, whatever. Correct any attempts
to paw or bite at you, or get on the sofa.

My bet is, that after 2 weeks tops, he's gonna figure out
that his arguing will get him nowhere but popped onto the
floor, and he can't bite with the leash control. Let us know!

Janet Boss
Best Friends Dog Obedience
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
"Read your question for the obvious answer"

LIKE THIS:

Subject: The crate escape - my brilliant puppy!

1 From: Janet B
Date: Wed, Apr 5 2006 7:44 am
Email: Janet B j...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com

After Rudy came to stay with us, I got tired of running
into an open crate door, so I bought a new crate, with a
door that folds up and in. "can't be opened from the inside"
says the ad. I always looked at these and hought "right",
but for the last few months (yes, folks, it's been 3.5 months)
it has worked great.

Until Monday.

That's when Mr Smarty-pants decided he knew how
to open it. And greeted us at the door after 6+ hours
of freedom.

A chewed wastebasket lid and a puddle inside the
front door (he loses it if very excited and yesterday
morning I found evidence that a smallish dog had
apparently "visited" right outside my full view front
door) was all that was wrong.

So yesterday, when I left for a short errand, I made
sure to clip the door closed securely. And once again
came home to an unconfined puppy.

So, today, the crate will get clips on the door to ensure
this doesn't happen again. I need him to learn that he
shouldn't let himself out.

But it looks like he's going to be allowed house freedom
within a few days, and since he'll be 9 months old on
Monday, that'll be the day.

I'll take the next few days to put some shoes away and
check out other things he may be interested in, and get
out the bitter apple.

My house is not exactly the neatest place in the world,
and there's a lot of stuff that may be too available and
interesting. We shall see.

My puppy is growing up and too smart for his own good!
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!

THAT'LL make dogs DEATHLY ILL, janet <{}: ~ ( >

LIKE THIS:

"Janet Boss" <ja...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> wrote in message
news:janet-C794AF....@news.individual.net...

> In article <13tdvmj9calq...@corp.supernews.com>, "BethInAK"
> <bethi...@clearwire.net> wrote:

>> Thats just so freaking annoying. Its past morning.
>> I must know whats going on.

> Sorry - I had to leave the house at 12:30 and just got home at 6.

> Good news is that he doesn't have diabetes. Bad news
> is it's pointing to congenital kidney defect.

> We're doing a repeat of the BUN and Creatinine test on Thursday,
> this time with a 10-12 hour fast. We're also going to do a specific
> gravity on first thing of the morning urine, to see if he's concentrating
> the urine overnight when he's not drinking water. I have notes, but
> basically the blood work showed the BUN and Creatinine as just over
> high normal, and the urine was high on something -

> I have to look and remember what.

> The step after that is an ultrasound to see what
> we're dealing with, kidney wise.

> The really F***ing bad news is that if this is what it is, there's not a
> damn thing that can be done except take it one day at a time and now
> that we'll face renal failure at some point. The fact that he's having
> this problem at only 2 is not a particularly promising sign.

> F***ING PUPPYMILLS!

> I'll post whenever I know more and have any more meaningful results.

> Thanks to all for the concern and thoughts. --
> Janet Boss www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Google Results: 2,660,000 for KIDNEY "RENAL
FAILURE" OR "KIDNEY DISEASE" & STRESS

Results: 288,000 for KIDNEY "RENAL FAILURE"
OR "KIDNEY DISEASE" EMOTIONAL STRESS

Results: 249,000 for "oxidative stress" KIDNEY OR
RENAL OR CONGENITAL "AUTOIMMUNE"

"I do use a variety of collars when training dogs. I'm
not a big fan of CHAIN chokes, because I don't find
them easy to fit properly. I prefer nylon slip collars in
general, will never connect a leash to a buckle ID collar,
and find prong collars to be very, very useful training tools.

Rudy is going to start learning the e-collar this week.
I'm sure you'll NOT hear screams from across the pond.
--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

--------------------------

Here's janet's SUCCESS trainin her own puppy:

From: J1Boss (j1b...@aol.com)
Subject: Re: housebreaking in a multi level home
Date: 2002-06-27 03:30:11 PST

> From: Rocky
> Nessa wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>> why does Franklin have to be on a leash?
>
> I think that Franklin's been naughty.
>
>--
>--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

and apparently pretty sneaky too -
can't figure this one out still!

FYI - He ingested a mystery sock.
Hadn't done that in well over a year.

When he was a puppy we were very lucky -
they went through or came up. We've done
"sock work" with him leaving them alone,
but mostly are pretty conscientious about
not making them available.

The risk is obviously too high. One of his
littermates beat him to the punch with the
same surgery, and his great grandfather had
this habit until he died at age 12.

My MIL was visiting (sockless!) and since he
wasn't with me every waking moment as usual
as a result, I can only imagine that the sock
presented itself somehow while she was with him.

He was a very, very sick dog. He had emergency
surgery on Monday, but was home by Tuesday - we
lucked out that the sock had advanced enough that
they didn't need to cut the bowel.

Once he was opened, they were able to manipulate
the sock out his rectum. He thinks he's fine, so
the leash is very necessary! He's got about a foot
of staples on his tummy, and this was a very
expensive sock!

Janet Boss
Best Friends Dog Obedience
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
Voted "Best of Baltimore 2001" - Baltimore Magazine
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

--------------------------------

BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAA~!~!~!

FRANKLIN and JANET, ACT II

From: J1Boss (j1b...@aol.com)
Subject: Re: What can I do if I can't afford a behaviorist?

Date: 2002-06-27 05:20:30 PST
> From: diddy d...@nospam.diddy.net
> Some dogs are really adept at getting
> out of things, even the impossible.

Yes indeed. I crated Franklin when I had to
leave yesterday. He's post surgical and needs
to be confined and rest/kept safe.

He is used to crates, has not problem with
them and does not "escape" (mesh crates, wire
crates, etc - he takes them all in stride,
whether strange places or at home).

When I got home, both dogs greeted me at the
door. He had managed to bend the clips on the
end panel of his metal crate (General Cage 204)
and squeeze out the top/side of the end panel
that has the door. The door was securely closed.

THAT was NOT a good thing to do with a foot of
staples in your tummy. He hadn't done it before -
but he's not his usual self obviously.

We won't be trying that again any time soon!

Janet Boss
Best Friends Dog Obedience
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
Voted "Best of Baltimore 2001" - Baltimore Magazine
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

---------------------

BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!

janet's dogs are DEAD an DYIN from STRESS INDUCED
AUTO-IMMUNE DIS-EASE a.k.a. The Puppy Wizard's
Syndrome <{}: ~ ( >:

From: lucyaa...@claque.net
Date: Sun, Dec 4 2005 3:26 am
Email: lucyaa...@claque.net

Janet B wrote:
> On 1 Dec 2005 10:55:42 -0800, "sighthounds & siberians"
> <greyho...@ncweb.com>, clicked their heels and said:
>
> > Oh, please. You're asking Lucy to understand that a behavior
> > can be genetic in a dog, which IMO is asking a great deal.

Yeah, what do I know about genetically determined behavior? At
some point in the evolution of Franklin's breed a mutation occurred
that determined a propensity for sock-swallowing; and, considering
the fact that this acquired behavior conferred such an evolutionary
advantage to the breed, natural selection favored it all the time until
it was passed on to Franklin's parents and grandparents, and hopefully
to Franklin's offspring, so that such a valuable trait wouldn't, God
forbid, be lost due to some other random mutation quirk. Nice how
genetics work, in Sally's world!

> >It's ironic that Lucy (whose tone from the get-go is much more
> >sarcastic and confrontational than would seem warranted) should
> >reappear just now, isn't it?

"Ironic?" About as ironic as any random event, and
as probable as a dog being born with a taste for socks.

> > Mustang Sally
> oh I know, and I fed the troll.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, good-hearted Janet!

I was STARVING!

But - can you tell me what exactly is it that makes me
a troll, when posting on topic on a dog behavior matter?

> Even they need treats once in awhile, no? OK - maybe not!
> The holiday spirit must have gotten the better of me.

Yes, Janet, you're way too good. Don't let it become a habit, though
-
you might find it difficult next time when having
to use your pretty choke collar on a dog.

Lucy

-------------------------

BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!

> We can take her out immediately and she will pee some
> more, in other words she isn't just dumping her bladder. We have taken
> her to the vet and she is fine.

No, your dog AIN'T FINE, Ted. IF your dog WAS FINE
you WOULDN'T be doin what you been doin, LIKE THIS:

"Anthony Testa" <testa52...@aol.com wrote in messag news:

c603fe9c.02032...@posting.google.com...

I moved to Jacksonville, Florida about a year ago
with my lovely wife linda. 3 times a week for 7
months I visited the Dog shelter and Humane Society
looking for a German Shepherd.

There were several times they had a dog there, but
I was looking for a bitch. The reason for this is,
all my life I have always had a female German shepherd.
Therefore, I wanted another one. Finally about 6 weeks
ago, I found her. "Angel" looked just like my previous
dog of 12 years. I called my wife, she came down and
fellin love with her immediately.

We filled out the paper work and left the Humane Society
with her. We drove directly to Pet Smart to buy all the
essentials. We bought the biggest crate available. Let
it be known I have never used a crate with any of my
previous dogs. The biggest difference is my other dogs
I had from puppy age. Angel just turned 2, 3 days before
adoption.

Angel appeared to be happy the trip home. Her ears were
down all the time and her tail was so far between her
legs that it looked like she had 3 ears. (humor) None
the less, we knew we had a dog that was insecure. The
first night we let Angel sleep in the living room.

However, we had to go to work the next day. We pet her,
kissed her and put her in the crate in the middle of the
living room. During the day, my sons came home to walk
her, give her a little loving and play with her. Then
put her back in the crate and go to work.

When we got home the first day, everything in the crate
was ripped to shreds. The neighbors approached us and
said that the dogs barked constantly for 3 hours then
barked continuously after my sons left again. We thought
it was because everything was new. We were wrong. The
dog did this every day for 4 days.

The 4th day was our first scheduled visit with the vet.
The vet told us he can see that the dog is suffering
from abuse and separation anxiety. So, the vet puts the
dog on clomicalm. (not sure of the spelling).

Well, for two days the dog walked around like Jerry
Garcia on a Friday night after a concert, stoned!
However, we were home with her the entire weekend.

We crated her for work and came home to a barking dog,
ripped bedding in the crate, upset neighbors and the
plastic bottom of the crate completely torn to bits.
It was obvious that crating was not a good thing. The
next day we decided to leave her out of the crate to
see what would happen. What a major mistake. We came
home to almost $1,000 in damage. Furniture, the blinds
were all chewed and torn down, etc.

The next day we put her in the crate again. This time
we came home to a nice 2' x 3' hole in our carpet in
the middle of the living room, right down to the cement.
I told my wife that we cannot afford to keep this dog.
We should go out and get a puppy. She was upset and said
there must be something we can do. I told her this. "I
will go on the internet and see what is available". I was
desperate and wanted to see if there was someone who could
help.

We read the information about the DDR and emailed Jerry.
Jerry was kind enough to give us his phone number to
discuss Angel in more detail.

First, at no cost he sent us his manual. We started doing
exactly what he said to do in the manual. Exactly as we
did was was written, the results were exactly as he said
it would be. Then we purchased the DDR.

This is an amazing god send to us. First of all, Jerry
sent it to us without paying. (thanks for that gesture)
This has such and AMAZING effect. This testimonial is
kind of winded so I will say this...... Jerry's product
literally saved this dogs life.

Angel can be left alone during the day. NO CRATE. The
dog shows absolutely no sign of anxiety at all. Jerry
told us the product works immediately and it did! She
does not bark at all during the day except when the
mailman drops mail into the slot on the door.

The manual for training works exactly as it says!

We told our vet about this and he said that there are
all kind of gimmicks. I told my vet that as a person
who holds a degree of higher education, there just are
some things they don't have in the text books and he
should be receptive to that. We are proof. Angel was
one day from going back to the humane society.

Listen to this... My wife wrote one of the so called
know it all of pets. His response to the exact letter
we initially wrote to Jerry..."Get rid of the dog,
bring her back" I'll save this person embarrassment
by not saying the name. However, you know who you are
and I have this to say to you. Go pump gas or bus tables
because you sir, do not belong working with animals!

Jerry, after reading some of the threads in the news
group, I can't for the life of me understand why this
many people are so dang blind or ignorant.

You just keep plugging away at what you do, because
you my friend are a life saver!!!

Anytime you need someone to speak about the results of
your product, you have my number. We would gladly talk
to them.

Thank you very much for all your help. God bless you...

Anthony & Linda Testa Jacksonville, Florida

=====================

> m...@bangnetcom.com (Mark Shaw) wrote in message
<news:lmWo8AeR...@panix.com>...

> > In article <c603fe9c.0203260607.77c28...@posting.google.com>,
> > testa52...@aol.com (Anthony Testa) wrote:
> > [...]
> > > Jerry, after reading some of the threads in the news
> > > group, I can't for the life of me understand why this
> > > many people are so dang blind or ignorant.
>
> > > You just keep plugging away at what you do, because you
> > > my friend are a life saver!!!
>
> > Okay, who the heck ARE you, really?

> Who am I? My real name is posted. The story you have read is
> true.

> We were at witts end, found Jerry's web page by
> happenstance, wrote to him almost exactly what you read, he
> gave me his suggestions, told me what my results would be
> including a time line and, you know what? He was and still
> is, right on the money.

> I don't care if he's a warlock, a professor, disgruntled
> Entomologist, or a man with a niche that makes the sciences
> itchy, he saved the day AND a dog's life.

> We were given suggestions from Medication, to a Behavioral
> Specialist. I decided that instead of creating a Jerry
> Garcia or pay 125.00 dollars an hour for my dog to lay on a
> couch to be freudiated, I decided Jerry Howe's method seemed
> to be more humane and serene. It worked, end of story.
> A. Testa

=====================

> My student Anthony summed it all up:

"Alpha" <sween...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:bsf69.5447$g9.1...@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...

> Well there you go, I was willing to believe but then jerry
> it was another hallucination of yours, just like all those
> thank you letters you write, a lie, a fabrication, a wank...

> > From: TESTA52601 (testa52...@aol.com)
> > Subject: Re: Thank you Jerry Howe
> > Date: 2002-03-28 10:01:34 PST

> > Alpha,

> > It's uneducated, ball breakers like you that create dismay
> > throughout this society. Get a life. you took apart a
> > letter from someone who has shown nothing but love and
> > caring, including lots of money and twisted it to YOUR point.

> > Ever consider politics? I challenge you to show me your
> > credentials and results you come up with. The things I did
> > with the dog WAS against MY wishes. However, I listen
> > to pencil neck geeks that sit behind a monitor and get 30
> > different suggestions. This dog could not be happier if
> > she was gnawing on all three of your legs.

> > The bottom line to my letter was to tell people "don't
> > knock it until you try it"

> > P.S. Write me personally if you have any
> > credentials.......

===============

> I've caught her in the act and yelled at her,

Naaaah?:

A. S. Neill, The Famous Founder of The Summerhill
School, Used To Cure Delinquent Children Way Back
In The 1950's By Paying Them For Every Time They
Wet The Bed Or Broke A Pane Of Glass And Their
Behaviour Would Stop, - As If By MAGICK!

The Embry Study:
"While some may find it strange that reprimands
might increase the chances of a child going into
the street, the literature on the experimental analysis
of behavior is replete with examples of how "attention
to inappropriate behavior" increases the chances of
more inappropriate behavior.

Thus, suggestions to parents that they talk to or reason
with their children about dashing into the street will
likely to have the opposite impact.

Reprimands do not punish unsafe behavior; they reward it."

Source:

"Reducing the Risk of Pedestrian Accidents to
Preschoolers by Parent Training and Symbolic
Modeling for Children: An Experimental Analysis
in the Natural Environment. Research Report
Number 2 of the Safe-Playing Project."

"The IMBECILITY of some of the claims for operant
technique simply take the breath away. Lovas et al
(1966) report a standard contingent reward/punishment
procedure developing imitative speech in two severly
disturbed non verbal schizophrenic boys. After twenty-
six days the boys are reported to have been learning
new words with alacrity. HOWEver, when REWARDS
were moved to a delayed contingency the behavior and
learning immediately deteriorated.

Programs utilizing the "contingencies of reinforcement
model" proposed by Skinner (1963) are no more well
established in research than the various dynamic
therapists."

Research in four areas : 1) direct evaluation of
programmed systems for learning; 2) reinforcement;
3) cognitive dissonance; and 4) motivation, MOST
SURELY DEMOLISH the claims of operant programers."

"It is NO WONDER that the marked changes in
deviant behavior of children can be achieved
through brief, simple educative routines with
their mothers which modify the mother's social
behaviors shaping the child (Whaler, 1966).

Some clinics have reported ELIMINATION of the
need for child THERAPY through changing the
clinical emphasis from clinical to parental
HANDLING of the child (Szrynski 1965).

A large number of cases improved sufficiently after
preliminary contact with parents that NO treatment
of children was required, and almost ALL cases
SHOWE a remarkably shortened period for therapy.
Quite severe cases of anorexia nervosa have been
treated in own to five months by simply REPLACING
the parents temporarily with EFFUSIVELY LOVING
SUBSTITUTES (Groen, 1966)."

SEE?

> so have some other family members.

INDEED?:

"Postitive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement. IOW,
emotions, not outside rewards, are what
reinforces any behavior," Ivan Pavlov.

Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last Student Demonstrated At UofOH,
That Rehabilitation Of Hyperactive Dogs Can Easily And
Readily Be Done Using TLC. Tender Loving Care Is At The
Root Of The Scientific Management Of Doggies.

"All animals learn best through play," Lorenz.

B.F. Skinner: Re-evaluation of Punishment:
Punishment, unfortunately traditionally overused,
actually has been proven not effective at long-
term behavioral change, and creatures will find
other ways of getting what it wants. In "Freedom
and the control of men" American Scholar, Winter
1955-56, 25, 47-65. 1956 he states:

If we no longer resort to torture in what we call
the civilized world, we nevertheless still make
extensive use of punitive techniques in both
domestic and foreign relations. And apparently for
good reasons. Nature if not God has created man
in such a way that he can be controlled punitively.

People quickly become skillful punishers (if not,
thereby, skillful controllers), whereas alternative
positive measures are not easily learned.

The need for punishment seems to have the support
of history, and alternative practices threaten the
cherished values of freedom and dignity.

Fear involved with punishment causes frustration:
with typical results loathing, hostility and apathy.
Skinner's teaching on the superiority of posittive
reinforcement's benefits for keeping desired behavior
have proved very valuable.

----------------------------

> She definitely knows she isn't supposed to be doing this -

That so? Oh, you mean, a dog violating a critters'
own TERRORTORIAL IMPERATIVE?:


Why Do You Reward The Dog For Being Bad?
Was:
Punish Dogs Children SP-HOWESES With PRAISE,
Unconditional LOVE, TRUST, And RESPECT
<{) ; - ) >


Always praise the dog to show him that you affectionally
support or love him. Praising the dog has nothing to do
with what he has just done, it has to do with your
relationship with him.


"Good dog" means "I love you, dog".


If the dog is anxious, then you make certain that he
knows that he is in a safe and trusting environment.
You praise and admire him.


Correction is the opposite signal, you are my enemy,
and this results, quite naturally, in the dog behaving
aggresively - why not, you've declared that you are his
enemy.


Why does paradoxical reward work?


The dog defecates on the floor. You come up and say
"Good Dog" you love and praise him.


THE DOG KNOWS YOU LOVE HIM.


The dog defecates on the floor because he is anxious.
No wild wolf, jackal, or coyote defecates in his den.
If he defecates in his den its because a bear is outside
trying to get in and eat him.


The dog knows that it is stupid to
defecate where he eats or sleeps.


Don't you?


If the dog feels safe he'll behave as if he
is safe, no pooping on the living room floor.


Almost all maladaptive behavior is due to fear, anxiety,
expectation of disaster. Correct the situation, and the
dog behaves fluently like a ..... Dog!


Punishment deranges behavior, it is never never never appropriate.


Love the dog.


Praise is never punishment, praise is like giving a
piece of steak. If you give a piece of steak to a dog
after he defecates on the floor he'll stop defecating
on the floor.


Fondly, Dr. Von


George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine you may find my resume
in Who's Who in the S & SE USA since 1982, and in the
big books, Who's Who in the USA, WW in the World,
WW in Medicine etc, and WW in Science and Technology,
since that date.


These are the Marquis Publications, the "real" WW,
and you can't get yourself into them.


GvH
--------------------

> if I put her on the leash to go out and even go near
> whatever spot she peed at she will avoid it.

Naaaah?

Hey? A$$HOWEL? Do you suppHOWES THAT might
be on accHOWENTA you an the rest of the pathetic
miserable stinkin rotten ignorameHOWESES in your
family MIGHT have SCARED your dog with your ABUSE?

> And she is very sneaky about when she pees -

INDEED?

> she only pees if she thinks that nobody is paying attention to her.

Naaaah?

> We can put her in her crate and she is fine -

That so??

> she has never peed or pooped in her crate, even
> when left in her crate for hours at a time (as when we are out at work)

Yeah? HOWEver, she's shit an piss your HOWES
as soon as you stop WATCHING her, Ted??

> She is a very active dog and likes to go outside.

EXXXCEPT to relieve herself <{}: ~ ( >

> I have observed that if she is taken outside quite a lot
> during the day - like, almost hourly - she doesen't seem to pee in the
> house as much,

Naaaah?

BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!

> but at this point it is a trust issue -

INDEED <{}: ~ ( >

Your dog DON'T TRUST YOU, or your ignorameHOWES family.

Abuse / Fear / Aggression / Hyperactivity / Shyness /
Depression / Suicide Attempts AIN'T Genetic Problems,
They're SPIRITUAL PROBLEMS,
Passed On From WON GeneratiHOWEN Of Abuser
To The Next,
Like The 100th Monkey Washin Fruit In The Stream.

After A While It's Not Just NORMAL, It's
-OBLIGATORY-

To Do OtherWIZE Would Be
DISRESPECTFUL
Of Your Parental Teachins.

The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME Is the Perfect Synergy Of
Love, Pride, Desire, Shame, Greed, Ego, Fear, Hate, Reflex,
Self Will, Arrogance, Ignorance, Predjudice, Cowardice,
Disbelief, Jealousy, Embarrassment, Embellishment, Guilt,
Anger, Hopelessness, Helplesness, Aversion, Attraction,
Inhibition, Revulsion, Repulsion, Change, Permanence,
Enlightenment, Insult, Attrition And Parental / ReligiHOWES /
Societal CONDITIONING;

*YOU ARE*
THE CRITTER YOU WAS TRAINED.

It Is The Perfect Fusion Of The Word..., In The Physical.

There Are NO GRAY AREAS
Between
RIGHT And WRONG.

"Only the unenlightened speak of wisdom and right action
as separate, not the wise.

If any man knows one, he enjoys the fruit of both.

The level which is reached by wisdom
is attained
through right action as well.

He who perceives that the two are one knows the truth."

"Even the wise man acts in character with his nature,
indeed all creatures act according to their natures.

What is the use of compulsion then?

The love and hate which are aroused
by the objects of sense arise from Nature,
do not yield to them.
They only obstruct the path," -
- Bhagavad Gita,
adapted by Krishna with permission
from His OWN FREE copy of The Simply
Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE Wits' End
Dog Training Method manual <{) ; ~ ) >

ALL Temperament And Behavior Problems Are
CAUSED BY MISHANDLING

SEE?

> none of us can trust she won't pee if we turn our back on her when she is
> out of her crate.

THAT'S on accHOWENTA you PUNISH your dog JUST
LIKE HOWE you raised your ignorameHOWES children.

> So we are putting her in her crate more and more, even when people are at
> home. This isn't good for her I am sure and we don't like it either.

You wouldn't wanna SPOIL your dog, would you, Ted?

> Both my wife and I have grown up with dogs

That so?:

From: Mike (m.bidd...@ns.sympatico.ca)
Subject: Re: Info. on the puppy wizard?
Date: 2004-07-18 14:27:02 PST

> > Oh, and did I mention his methods work, ya nuff said.
> > Mike

> Ok Mike which part worked for you?

It helped clear problems from my dogs in the
field using the can penny distraction technique.

Works like a charm.

My dogs get distracted easy from their jobs ie,
retrieving or training to find lost people, oh did
I mention that I am a Search and Rescue Team
Leader.

Sorry that slipped my mind.

I have read volumes of training books and don't
know where people get that Jerry copied others
work as I have NEVER come across his methods
before. I would like to see proof.

Just like Jerry outlined I eliminated problems one
at at time as they arose. I used to try and train to
the way I wanted them but this is backward, you
train out the problems leaving what you want left over.

Funny part is the second dog who had the same
problems as the other didn't need correcting for
some of his habits after I cleared it from the first
dog.

Seemed he learned through osmosis.

Nice side benefit there.

It nearly came to giving them up to a 3rd party
trainer as they were not performing well. The
VAST majority of working dog trainers are
agressive in their actions with the dogs.

I tried it and it didn't work and guess what I
was at my "Whits End" then someone I new
turned me onto Jerry and the rest is history.

I referred friends and families to Jerry's manual
and all have had great results. Starting puppies
out on the distraction technique is especially
good because they never develop the habit.

I had my sisters dog healing, sitting and down
stay reliably at 8-9 weeks. The first night home
following Jerrys advice we ditched the crate and
put the pup on the floor beside the bed and after
2 whimpers NOT A SOUND OUT OF THAT DOG
FOR 6 HRS! first night, that has never happened
in all my days.

Sorry, the man understands dogs its that simple.

Mike

----------------------

4. From: "BlueMoon" <martha.br...@rogers.com>
Date: 24 Jun 2006 10:18:27 -0700

Subject: Training two at once

BlueMoon wrote:
Well, I'd take your advice and go thru the killfile as
you have recommended below, but Jerry's system Is
WORKING wonders with these two puppies in a
matter of days.

He may be abusive and short-tempered with some
people out there because, quite frankly, I think he
cares more about the dogs that the owner's feelings
and feels so strongly about it, it's aggravating to have
"experts" discount his methods.

My husband just got back from taking these 15 week
old pups for a walk, who now respond remarkably
well to the "Zena-Zoey-sit-good-girl!" phrase now
when only said once no matter where they are.

They also respond to the come here command. We
trained them (granted, out of order of the instructions)
with the pennies in the cans only two days ago to come
to us when called.

I've since backtracked to do the exercises in the proper order.

They are calm and well-behaved and impress the Hell
out of anyone who sees them. "You're kidding, they're
only 14 weeks old and they are THAT well behaved?"

Yessiree Bob, they are, and we've only had them
for 12 days and have been training them (correctly
for 3 days.

We still have more training exercises to do, but
why fix something if it's not broken???? These
dogs are happy, we don't have to yell at or scold
them, they are learning to be secure and to pay
attention to us for approval and not out of fear.

I can only assume some might be threatened by this
manual's methods because it goes against all human
logic on how to train a dog. It certainly didn't
make any sense to me, but I thought what the heck,
try it (even tho I still have to remind myself what
to do because my previous limited experiences with
dog training were SO DIFFERENT to the point that I
almost felt like I needed to take my brain out of
my head and put it back in backwards!!!.....).....

BUT THE SYSTEM WORKS!!!

How in the world could someone just "make
something up" and it WORK?>??>?

My husband was very doubtful about this method
when I told him I wanted to try this. His dad was
a vet, and certainly didn't use these methods with
the parade of dogs they had as kids. But now even
HE has to admit we're doing something right here,
as our stress and frustration levels have lowered
and EVERYONE is much happier around here,
especially the dogs!

I really don't think people are used to the notion that
you can train a dog and it NOT be stressful or difficult.

It's easy IF you do it just like the manual says. It might
be easier for some to NOT do it now and go with the
concept of control rather than respect and understanding,
because that's the way WE are used to thinking and
heaven forbid WE change OUR way of thinking and
admit we've done some counterproductive things in
the past, right?

The results I'm seeing here with these puppies speaks
volumes and discounts what anyone tells me otherwise.

This Wit's End manual is now in a binder
and we're sticking with it.

BlueMoon

------------------------

From: "BlueMoon" <martha.br...@rogers.com>
Date: 3 Oct 2006 10:51:17 -0700

Subject: Re: Anyone actually tried Jerry Howe's techniques?

I tried Jerry's techniques when we got 2 puppies, Lab/German
Shepard Mix, sisters, at 3 months old. I was really at a loss.

I'm not a dog trainer, and it had been years since I had a puppy to
train. My husband's Dad was a vet, so they had quite a few as he
was growing up. I downloaded the manual (it was free, what did
I have to lose?) and we were both surprised to see his methods
deliver results in just a few days.

Some methods took a bit longer, some showed immediate results,
but we've now got some of the best behaved and happiest dogs in
the neighbourhood.

It went against alot of pre-conceived ideas we had about how
to train a dog. It's been over 3 months now, and so far, so good.

I'm not saying other methods don't work, but I had no interest in
trying any of them after I saw the results from this. It worked for
us without having to bribe, scold, or get frustrated.

Praise and attention alone work wonders when done at the right moment.

If you just follow the manual, you'll find that he
really knows what he's talking about.

Bluemoon

SEE?

> and we don't mind an occassional mess

THAT'S KINDLY of you, Ted; HOWEver, your dog DOES
mind it; IN FACT, it's driving her INSANE <{}: ~ ( >

> and we understand a dog is going to pee on the floor if they aren't let
> out when they need to go.

THAT SO?:

From: AIMEE (countrygirl0...@yahoo.com)
Subject: House training and such...
Date: 2003-10-08 16:18:56 PST

I've been having a problem with my dog, Axel,
relieving himself in the house while I'm away
from home.

I've used TPW method's, and yesterday I was out
for 12 hours, and Axel didn't have one single "accident".

Today, I had hoped that the results would be just as
good - and they were (I was out for 11 hours).

The problem began when, as a puppy, Axel would
relieve himself in the house and I would point
at the mess and tell him "NO" or "Bad Dog".

That made him afraid to relieve himself in the
house or infront of me.

After I got TPW's training manual, I corrected my
mishandling of these instances.

When I came home to an "accident", I would simply
drop a can near the area and ask Axel "What's that?"
Then I would clean it up - with out showing him I was
the least bit upset about the mess, and when he looked
at the spot I would tell him "Good boy, you're a good dog".

This has been an ongoing problem, and thanks to the
Puppy Wizard, we've finally got it taken care of...

Also, Axel LOVES the cat's litter box...He enjoys the
"snacks" he can find in there...I followed TPW's methods
by alternating sounds and praising him while or before
he sticks his nose in it, and today, he's been going into
the room with the cat box and barking. That's because
he's thinking about getting into the box, but he knows he
shouldn't.

Thank you, Jerry, for all you help.

You've been a blessing to all of us.

AIMEE

-----------------------

From: AIMEE (countrygirl0...@yahoo.com):

I own a black an tan coonhound. We got him
as a puppy, and due to constant mishandling
(pulling on his lead, negative corrections, and
the occasional use of a bark collar) I ended
up with a very anxious dog.

I couldn't leave him home alone, I couldn't
crate him, I couldn't even take my dog for
walks because he feared EVERYTHING.

I was going to have to get rid of him if things
didn't turn around.

My husband and I searched the internet for
answers - AND WE FOUND THE PUPPY WIZARD.

For all of you disbeliveers out there HIS METHODS WORK!

I've followed his manual, and we now have a
dog that can be left home alone, that heels
on command, that can go outside and NOT
be afraid of everything he sees.

Not only have his methods helped our dog, but
our marriage has gotten better. We had fallen
into a rut - constant bickering and tension, we
never laughed or had FUN together - but now,
with the same mindset used in THE PUPPY
WIZARDS dog training, our communications
channels have opened, and we now work
together instead of against one another.

For all the "Literalists" out there, NO WE DID
NOT TEACH EACH OTHER TO SIT, STAY,
OR HEEL.

We simply eliminated the nagging and the acting out to get
NEGATIVE attention from one another since we weren't getting
the POSITIVE attention we wanted.

So, it's been proven - THE PUPPY WIZARDS METHODS WORK.

It's up to you to accept them. Yes, there's alot of blame
that we have to accept, but once we realize that we've caused
these problems to arise, we can strive to make things better.

AIMEE

*****************************

I THINK YOU GET THE POINT.

DON'T YOU.

> But, this is getting rediculous.

INDEED?

So your "SOLUTION" is to come HERE an DISTURB
the MENTAL CASES who's own dogs GOT THE SAME
PROBLEMS for the SAME REASONS??

> We can't have a dog that will pee on the floor every 2 hours when free to
> run about the place, but is perfectly
> able to hold it for 4-5 hours if crated, and doesen't pee if lying on our
> bed, sofa, etc.

Well then, perhaps you should TAKE IT to a veterinary
malpracticioner or JUST STOP feedin an waterin IT?

> We feel sure that she is turning this pee on the floor thing into some
> sort of power struggle/attention
> getting mechanism.

INDEED? Oh, you mean JUST LIKE HOWE IT SEZ
in your own FREE COPY of The Sincerely Incredibly
Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES,
And Horsey Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End
Training Method Manual:
http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard/777witsendmanual.htm

The actual INSTRUCTION begins on the third page "*777*
Wits' End Method", abHOWET 1/4 down the page starting
with "Here's ALL the INFORMATION you NEED" and my
phone # and instructions to CALL ANY TIME.

There you will find ALL the FREE information you need
to pupperly handle raise and train your pets and family.
Just follow the instructions PRECISELY and ASK me if
you need any additional FREE HEELP <{}: ~ ) >

You'll likeWIZE find ETHICAL nutrition and heelth
care practices taught on the heelth page *(last link
on the left side) of my website <{}'; ~ ) >

> But she gets plenty of attention already -

INDEED?

> when we are home in the evening we are always petting
> her or letting her lie on the sofa when we are watching TV, and our kids
> pay her a lot of attention when they are
> home from school.

Perhaps you should GET RID of the dog AND kids?

> Any suggestions on how to curb this would be most appreciated!

No, Ted. AS STATED: "The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin
Insanely Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master Puppy,
Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES,
And Horsey Wizard TEACHES folks ALL OVER the
WHOWEL WILD WORLD HOWE to PUPPERLY
handle, raise an train ALL critters to ALL behaviors
NEARLY INSTANTLY, simply by DOIN EVERY
THING EXXXACTLY PRECISELY OPPOSITE of
HOWE your newfHOWEND pathetic ignorameHOWE
punk thug coward MENTAL CASE PALS prefer <{}'; ~ ) >

LIKE THIS:

Subject: In defense of Jerry Howe's methods

1 From: Deltones
Date: Wed, Nov 30 2005 3:30 pm
Email: "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com>

I've had my JR puppy for close to a month now (She's 3 mo),
and I want to say that I believe in Jerry Howe's method for
training my dog. I hate how he makes Webster cry with his
way of writing, and the fact he quotes every damn posts written
since the Big Bang in every replies he does.

A lot of you consider their dogs as a part of your family, but
I read so many posts about screaming, choking, shocking,
pinching, beating the living crap out of your dogs that I wonder
why some of you have them at all. Do you raise your kids that
way, or you raise them with kindness to the best of your abilities?

Yes, Jerry's online personnality totally sucks, and he would be
better served by having his Wit's End document speak for itself
and reply to people with the same kind of eloquence he shows
in his manual.

Unfortunately he doesn't, and as a result, the majority of people
here tuned him out. If you hate the messenger, don't disregard his
message, and do yourself the favor of downloading his manual and
read it at least once. Your dog deserves it.

Like previously stated, I have a 3 mo Jack Russell, and a lot
of people think these dogs become totally insane when left alone.

Mine has the full run of the house when I'm at work already.

Why?

Because she did go totally insane when I left her in her crate,
crapping on herself in the process. It was not fun.

I followed Jerry's advice and did the "Separation Anxiety"
method in the manual, and my house has not been destroyed.

Dog happier, house not destroyed?

That's all I needed to know.

If you're wondering, nope, she's not housebroken yet, and I
do come back with her business on the floor. Winter is starting
here in Montreal and she really hates going outside in the cold
(sorry Jerry, it's really not instinctive in her), so I know I will
have some difficulties with the housebreaking process.

Do I get frustrated to have to wash the floor every day?

Yeah I do, but I try my best not to show it to the dog. That's
the small price I decided to pay to have that small furball in
my life. I'm confident she'll get the hang of it, but I know that
it's not going to happen with kicking and screaming.

Tune out Jerry if you want if he doesn't make sense to you.
But give his Wit's End manual a good look, because when
he wrote it at that point in his life, he did.

------------

> Ted


"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It," mike duforth,
author: "CourteHOWES Canine."

"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?

When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first
time, spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth
and walk away. The dog won't be too thrilled with
this but just ignore him and continue your normal
behavior."
--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"CourteHOWES Canines"

3. From: MiserableOldCrab <dontbothermeyoubraindead
@ssholefuckyou.invalid>
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 01:13:29 -0400

Subject: Re: Training two at once

On 24 Jun 2006 10:18:27 -0700,
"BlueMoon" <martha.br...@rogers.com> wrote:

>Hi,

>I've just downloaded the Wit's End training manual and have been
>reading thru the first sections. I have a question. Seven days ago we
>became the owner of 2 14-week old puppies (sisters, Lab/German
>Shepard mix). Would these training methods work best if the dogs
>are separated for training or should we try these techniques with
>both of them at thesame time?
>
>Thanks!
>BlueMoon

Hello BlueMoon,

Just wanted to warn you about this pervert,
newsgroup abuser and convicted felon who is trolling
the room. His alias is The Amazing Puppy Wizard
and real name is Jerry Howe.

Since you are new here, you just got hooked by replying
to this well known netloon and troll. Once he baits you
as he does with others, you became troll bait and he will flame
you and harass you through this newsgroup and in email.

PLEASE killfile this well known Jerry Howe aka
The Puppy Wizard who is using alot of alias in
here. He is a pathological liar, pervert and
bastard net kook.

He has been spamming random newsgroups trying to sell a
scam device and his moronic Wits' End Dog Training Method.
He's a sick individual and a convicted felon. Please complain
to abuse @rr.com and then killfile him.

All he does is slander and defame people in here
and never listens when told to stop. He knows

nothing about dog training or canine behavior.

He just makes this up, his nose gets longer and
longer like Pinocchio due to lying for years and
he has been abusively trolling this newsgroup
and others for years.

He keeps putting " XXX " in each word, which means
that he is so perverted and he is mentally ill and off his
medication and it is better that all of you keep him in
your killfiles for the time being.

Please avoid replying to messages from all his aliases.

The aliases to killfile are:

<SNIP>

Show Dog Bark Wrote:
Date: Sat, Aug 19 2006 2:06 am

Blue is doing fantastic. Thanks to his wonderful
personality, genetics and Jerry's help. I speak with
Jerry a couple of times a week about his progress
and fine tuning his training. Blue sits, heels, is
totally toilet trained, comes, knows 'down', stay
and all kinds of things like 'lets go for a walk'.

He is pure joy and has made my heart glad and full
of puppy love. He loves walking in the forest trails
and swimming in the cool and refreshing lake. His
'daddy' takes him for his final walk every evening
at 7 P.M. Then it is off to bed. He sleeps till 7 A.M.

It is nice to be able to sleep all night without getting
up for a pee pee a few times with him. In the first few
weeks I had to take him out at night, but now he is
able to sleep all night. He is like a tranquilizer.

I keep asking Jerry if Blue is a genius,
as he is so clever and obedient.

He tells me this is the nature of a dog that
has not been abused.

Blue is super good looking and so smart.

He learned to sit weeks ago. When he needs to go
outside to relieve himself, he lets me know by
going to the door and woofing. One thing that I
have noticed using Jerry's methods is that Blue
is very calm.

Most dogs are hyper and chew furniture and have
bad habits. Blue only plays with his toys. He knows
the difference between his toys and furniture and
does not nip.

I was surprised that he does not want to go on the
furniture. He likes to play on the floor and outside.
We sit outside together and he sits by where I am
reading. He may chew a toy or just hang out in the
shade. The whole town loves him and people are
impressed with his manners.

Show Dog Bark

--------------------

Subject: < BEFORE -> "Jerry, You filthy, Unctuous,
No Good Charlatan,"

< AFTER -> "Thank You Jerry For Putting Up With
A Constant Barrage Of Really Infantile
Crap At The Hands Of Supposedly Adult
Dog Lovers.

'Naive' Is Believing You Can Terrorize
A Dog Into Good Behavior," Robert Crim.

>Subject: Re: Fritz---a retrospective
>Date: 02/05/1999
>Author: Robert Crim <fritzg...@earthlink.net>
> You filthy, unctuous, no good charlatan. If you had
> any idea of what dogs and dog people were about
> you would realize the depths of the absolute loathing
> and contempt I hold for you right now. Were it not
> for the blessed distance and anonymity that the internet
> gives us from the scummy likes of you, I would probably
> be in a jail cell right now for turning you into the pile
> of shit you really are

Hey, Howe, you really are a wacko, eh?

Crim wrote this about *YOU,* you insipid piece of cow dung!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@i1.net
http://www.i1.net/~dogman


=====================


Here again is the pathetic miserable stinkin rotten lyin
anonymHOWES coward, not so handsome, not so
gentle, not so manly, not so happy jackass, not even
morrison aka dogman a.k.a. BIG DADDY, a.k.a.
tommy sorenson:

"I don't know how big you are, kiddo, so this may
not be as easy for you as it is for me, but use a little
"knee action," that is, as the dog goes charging by
you, just give the dog a little bop with your knee
and shin.

Yep, really lean into it.

Even knock her over, if you can, but make sure to
make her think twice about rushing past you again -
- which is exactly what you want her to do.

Don't bother with scolding her, she'll get the message.

If it happens again, just REPEAT the knee action.

When she steps on your toes, just pick up your foot
abruptly and nudge her with your knee. Again, no
scolding is necessary here, so you don't have to
worry about her "over-reacting."

I don't think this is necessarily a lack of respect
for you, just a lack of training. That is, she just
needs *more* of it."

-----------------------

BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!

Here's pathetic miserable stinkin rotten lyin
anonymHOWES coward, not so handsome,
not so gentle, not so manly, not so happy
jackass, not even morrison aka dogman a.k.a.
BIG DADDY, a.k.a. tommy sorenson:

"My objective is always to find a way that WORKS.
And if it is DANGEROUS behavior that I'm trying
to modify, behavior than can get the dog KILLED,
I will resort to ANYTHING to save him.

A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G.

Okay. Call me a cruel, inhumane, abusive bastard
if you want to, but it doesn't affect me at all.
When you've saved the lives of as many dogs as I
have, you'll learn that that's the only thing that
really matters. Saving lives and making dogs become
good citizens

At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a
dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin does
*not* constitute a "beating."

=====================

"Swatting a dog on the nose is
always the wrong thing to do."

---------------


From: qbt...@v1.arg (Dogman)
Date: 1997/01/24
Subject: Re: Over-Excited Lab

On a cold day in Hell, Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:53:10

Teaching a puppy to stop biting and nipping people is
probably the very easiest thing you will ever do as a dog
trainer. Don't make such a big deal out of it.

It's E-A-S-Y, but it won't be done in just one or
two lessons. You must be C-O-N-S-I-S-T-E-N-T.

And P-A-T-I-E-N-T.

Whenever your puppy bites or nips you (or anyone else
in your family), do any one of the following:

1.) At the same time you say "NO BITE!" in a firm voice,
gently but firmly tap your puppy on its nose with your index
finger.

2.) At the same time you say "NO BITE!" in a firm voice,
gently but firmly grasp your puppy's lower jaw with your
right hand (if you are right handed), your right thumb stuck
down and under her tongue, your other fingers wrapped
under her jaw, and gently but firmly shake her jaw back
and forth a couple of times.

3.) At the same time you say "NO BITE!" in a firm voice,
gently place a couple of fingers into her mouth, trying to
touch the back of her tongue with them, initiating a gag
reflex.

Immediately after doing any one of the above,
stop playing with her for at least 15-20 minutes
and completely IGNORE her. Do not even make
eye contact!

I promise you, Phil, that if you will be consistent in
the application of the above, your puppy will soon stop
nipping and biting people. Just how soon this occurs
depends upon the puppy, how well you execute the
above, and how C-O-N-S-I-S-T-E-N-T you are.

And no one should be allowed to play with the puppy
who is not capable of doing any of the above. Not
until she has first learned not to nip and bite people.

"At the very FIRST nip, tap your puppy on his nose with
your index finger, sharply, but not very hard, your face in
his face, and say "NO BITE!" in a firm but not loud voice."

"With your index finger, tap the puppy on her nose firmly,
but not harshly, then, at the very same time, and nose to
nose with her, tell your puppy in a firm but not loud voice,
"NO BITE!"

"At the same time you say "NO BITE!" in a firm voice,
gently but firmly tap your puppy on its nose with your
index finger."

BUT NEVER HIT YOUR DOG~!

Swatting a dog on the nose is always
the wrong thing to do.

IMO, the *fastest* way to curb a mouthy puppy's
desire to bite hands (especially if other methods
have failed, because you don't want this habit to
become reinforced by too much success), etc., is
to take advantage of the pup's gag reflex:

Slowly reach over and around the pup's shoulder
(while you're sitting on the floor), coming up to
the pup's mouth from underneath it with your
right hand (that way he can't see your finger or
your hand), and stick your index finger into the
pup's mouth, at the very rear, then down the
pup's throat, and gently place some downward
pressure on the back of the tongue, until he starts
to gag. Use your left arm to hold him close to you,
while you're doing this.

Trust me, it's easier to demonstrate this technique
than to explain it, but it's fail-proof.

He'll quickly put 2 and 2 together. Biting hands = gag.

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

-------------------

SEE?

"The Koehler Method of Dog Training"
Howell Book House, 1996"

Koehler On Correcting The Housebreaking Backslider.

"If the punishment is not severe enough, some of these
"backsliders" will think they're winning and will
continue to mess in the house. An indelible impression
can sometimes be made by giving the dog a hard
spanking of long duration, then leaving him tied by
the mess he's made so you can come back at twenty
minute intervals and punish him again for the same
thing. (Dogs are REALLY stupid. J.H.)

In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this
disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
light spanking that some owners seem to think is
adequate punishment. It will be better for your dog,
as well as the house, if you really pour it on him."

"Housebreaking Problems:

"The Koehler Method of Dog Training"
Howell Book House, 1996"

Occasionally, there is a pup who seems determined to
relieve himself inside the house, regardless of how
often he has the opportunity to go outside. This dog
may require punishment. Make certain he is equipped
with a collar and piece of line so he can't avoid
correction.

When you discover a mess, move in fast, take him to
the place of his error, and hold his head close enough
so that he associates his error with the punishment.
Punish him by spanking him with a light strap or
switch. Either one is better than a folded newspaper.

It is important to your future relationship that you
do not rush at him and start swinging before you get
hold of him.

When he's been spanked, take him outside. Chances
are, if you are careful in your feeding and close
observation, you will not have to do much punishing.

Be consistent in your handling.

To have a pup almost house-broken and then force
him to commit an error by not providing an opportunity
to go outside is very unfair. Careful planning will
make your job easier.

The same general techniques of housebreaking apply
to grown dogs that are inexperienced in the house.

For the grown dog who was reliable in the house and
then backslides, the method of correction differs
somewhat. In this group of "backsliders" we have the
"revenge piddler." This dog protests being alone by
messing on the floor and often in the middle of a bed.

The first step of correction is to confine the dog
closely in a part of the house when you go away, so
that he is constantly reminded of his obligation. The
fact that he once was reliable in the house is proof
that the dog knows right from wrong, and it leaves
you no other course than to punish him sufficiently
to convince him that the satisfaction of his
wrongdoing is not worth the consequences. If the
punishment is not severe enough, some of these
"backsliders" will think they're winning and will
continue to mess in the house.

An indelible impression can sometimes be made
by giving the dog a hard spanking of long duration,
then leaving him tied by the mess he's made so you
can come back at twenty minute intervals and punish
him again for the same thing.

In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this
disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
light spanking that some owners seem to think is
adequate punishment.

It will be better for your dog, as well as the house,
if you really pour it on him.

---------------------

LIKE THIS:

tommy wrote:
From: dog...@i1.net (Dogman) Date: 1997/11/11
Subject: Re: Koehler's Usefulness--A Concluding Assessment

This, from a yellow-bellied coward who has TOTALLY refused
to engage me in debate, preferring mudslinging, hyperbole, distortion,
lies, exaggeration, and to take Koehler completely out of context,
instead.

What lying hypocrites these hand-wringers are!

The most consistent argument among Koehler's defenders is based
on a questionable assumption that such "drastic" measures are
effective in "extreme" cases where other methods fail.

------------------------

Here's tommy TRAININ dogs again:

Howell Book House," 1996 William Koehler

BARKING, WHINING, HOWLING,
YODELING, SCREAMING, AND WAILING

The fact that you realize you have such a problem makes it certain
you have "reproved" the dog often enough to let him know you were
against his sound effects, even though your reproving didn't quiet
them, so we'll bypass the loudly clapped hands, the cup of water in
his face, and the "shame-shames" and start with something more
emphatic.

We'll begin with the easiest kind of vocalist to correct: the one
that charges gates, fences, doors, and windows, barking furiously at
familiar or imaginary people and objects. A few clusters of BBs from
a good slingshot, in conjunction with the light line and plenty of
temptations, will cause such a dog to use his mind rather than his
mouth.

But you won't make the permanent impression unless you
supply dozens of opportunities for him to exercise the control he
thus acquires. Make sure these opportunities don't always come at
the same time of the day, else he may learn to observe the "quiet
hour" and pursue his old routines at other times.

With the help of the light line, it will be easy to follow the BBs
with a long down to make sure he gets the most from his lesson. As
was mentioned before, eliminating the senseless barking will not
lessen the dog's value as a watchdog but rather, as he grows more
discriminating, increase it.

The dog who vocalizes in bratty protest or lonesomeness because
you're gone constitutes a different problem. If it is impractical
for someone to stay with him constantly (there are owners who cater
to neurosis by employing dog sitters), you'll have to heed
the neighbors and the law and quiet the dog. This calls for a little
ingenuity as well as a heavy hand.

Attach a line to your dog's collar, so your corrective effort
doesn't turn into a footrace around the house until you reach a
stalemate under the bed. This use of the line in the correction will
also serve to establish it as a reminder to be quiet as the dog
drags it around when you're not present. Next, equip yourself with a
man's leather belt or a strap heavy enough to give your particular
dog a good tanning.

Yup-we're going to strike him. Real hard. Remember,
you're dealing with a dog who knows he should be quiet and
neighbors who have legal rights to see that he does.

Now leave, and let your fading footsteps tell the dog of your going.
When you've walked to a point where he'll think you're gone but
where you could hear any noises he might make, stop and listen. If
you find a comfortable waiting place on a nearby porch, be careful
not to talk or laugh. Tests show a dog's hearing to be many times as
sharp as yours.

When the noise comes, instead of trying to sneak up to the door so
you can barge in while he's still barking, which is generally
impossible, respond to his first sound with an emphatic bellow of
"out," and keep on bellowing as you charge back to his area.

Thunder through the door or gate, snatch up the belt that you've
conveniently placed, and descend on him. He'll have no chance to
dodge if you grab the line and reel him in until his front feet are
raised off the floor or, if he's a big dog, until you've snubbed him
up with a hitch on something. While he's held in close, lay the
strap vigorously against his thighs.

Keep pouring it on him until he thinks it's the bitter end. A real
whaling now may cut down somewhat on the number of repeat
performances that will be necessary.

When you're finished and the dog is convinced that he is, put him on
a long down to think things over while you catch your breath. After
fifteen or twenty minutes, release him from the stay and leave the
area again.

So that you won't feel remorseful, reflect on the truth that a great
percentage of the barkers who are given away to "good homes" end
up in the kindly black box with the sweet smell. Personally, I've
always felt that it's even better to spank children, even if they
"cry out," than to "put them to sleep."

You might have a long wait on that comfortable porch before your
dog starts broadcasting again. When he does, let your long range
bellow tie the consequent correction to his first sound and repeat
the spanking, if anything emphasizing it a bit more.

It might be necessary to spend a Saturday or another day off so that
you'll have time to follow through sufficiently. When you have a
full day, you will be able to convince him each yelp will have a bad
consequence, and the consistency will make your job easier. If he
gets away with his concert part of the time, he'll be apt to gamble
on your inconsistency.

After a half dozen corrections, "the reason and the correction" will
be tied in close enough association so that you can move in on him
without the preliminary bellowing of "out." From then on, it's just
a case of laying for the dog and supplying enough bad
consequences of his noise so he'll no longer feel like gambling.

Occasionally, there is a dog who seems to sense that you're hiding
nearby and will utter no sound. He also seems to sense when you
have really gone away, at least according to the neighbors. Maybe
his sensing actually amounts to close observation. He could be
watching and listening for the signs of your actual going.

Make a convincing operation of leaving, even if it requires changing
clothes and being unusually noisy as you slam the doors on the
family car and drive away. Arrange with a friend to trade cars a
block or two from your house so you can come back and park within
earshot without a single familiar sound to tell the dog you've
returned. A few of these car changes are generally enough to fool
the most alert dog.

Whether your dog believes you are gone anytime you step out of the
house or requires the production of changing clothes and driving
off, keep working until even your neighbors admit the dog has
reformed. If there has been a long history of barking and whining,
it sometimes requires a lot of work to make a dog be quiet when
you're not around, so give the above method an honest try before
you presume your dog requires a more severe correction.

"The Koehler Method of Dog Training (1962).
New York: Howell Book Book House(p. 52-53)."

Hanging

"First, the trainer makes certain that the collar and leash are more
than adequate for any jerk or strain that the dog's most frantic
actions could cause. Then he starts to work the dog deliberately and
fairly to the point where the dog makes his grab. Before the teeth
have reached their target, the dog, weight permitting, is jerked from
the ground. As in coping with some of the afore-mentioned problems
the dog is suspended in mid-air.

However, to let the biting dog recover his footing while he still had
the strength to renew the attack would be cruelty. The only justifiable
course is to hold him suspended until he has neither the strength nor
inclination to renew the fight. When finally it is obvious that he is
physically incapable of expressing his resentment and is lowered to
the ground, he will probably stagger loop-legged for a few steps,
vomit once or twice, and roll over on his side. The sight of a dog
lying, thick-tongued, on his side, is not pleasant, but do not let it
alarm you

THE REAL "HOOD"

"If your dog is a real "hood" who would regard the foregoing types
of protest as "kid stuff" and would express his resentment of your
efforts by biting, your problem is difficult -- and pressing.

"Professional trainers often get these extreme problems. Nearly
always the "protest biter" is the handiwork of a person who, by
avoiding situations that the dog might resent, has nurtured the seeds
of rebellion and then cultivated the resultant growth with under
correction.

When these people reap their inevitable and oftentimes
painful harvest, they are ready to avail themselves of "the cruel
trainer" whose advice they may have once rejected because it was
incompatible with the sugary droolings of mealy-mouthed columnists,
breed-ring biddies, and dog psychologists who, by the broken skins
and broken hearts their misinformation causes, can be proven guilty of
the greatest act of cruelty to animals since the dawn of time.

"With more genuine compassion for the biting dog than would ever be
demonstrated by those who are "too kind" to make a correction and
certainly with more disregard for his safety, the professional trainer
morally feels obligated to perform a "major operation."

"Since we are presently concerned with the dog that bites in
resentment of the demands of training, we will set our example in that
situation. (In a later chapter we will deal with the with the much
easier problem of the dog that bites someone other than his master."

------------------------

BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!

An THEN tommy GETS SENSITIVE like HOWE some
folks get when they're talkin politics an religion.

LIKE THIS:

From: Dogman <dog...@i1.net>
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 11:13:41 -0500

Subject: Re: dogman

spamh8r <spam...@nospam.com> wrote:
> you mean the one at 1073 Highway in Defiance, Missouri?
> You can call 636-828-5149. check it out at:
> http://DogTrainerDirectory.com/show.php3?Which=5674

Yeah, that's it, you sick little prick.

Blame it on a TOTALLY INNOCENT guy.

I am *not* Tom Sorensen.

I AM NOT TOM SORENSON!

Geeeeeeeeeeez.
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@i1.net
http://www.i1.net/~dogman

------------

"Dogman" <dog...@i1.net> wrote in message
news:dr60ts4q1kk0r5h0a...@4ax.com...

And since I have repeatedly *denied* being either Tommy
Sorensen, Tommy Sorenson, Joe Finocchiaro, Joey
Finocchare, Joe Finocchiro, and a host of other people that
*you* have accused me of being, just who the hell do you
suppose would end up getting sued, you stupid little dweeb?

Me? Or you?

> Because I've discreditied YOU.

Where exactly did you do that, little man?

Where????????

BWAHAHAHAHA!

Maybe inside that demented little brain of yours, but nowhere else.

And until you're prepared to walk the walk and not just talk
the talk, "everyone" here will know you for what you really are.

A two-bit P-H-O-N-Y.
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@i1.net
http://www.i1.net/~dogman

HOWE COME tommy won't tell us his kennel name is sorensen's
Retrievers and SHOCK COLLAR SALES and his address and
phone #'s?:

From: A Real American <u...@usa.com>
Date: 2000/10/11
Subject: Re: Walking with Prong Collar

In case anyone was wondering who the anonymous poster
known as Dogman actually is, it is

Tom Sorenson of
Sorenson Kennels
(314) 828-5149
1073 Hwy DD
Defiance, MO
63341-1707

If you are offended by the language and the nastiness, please drop
him and his wife Kay a note or give them a call. You may also use
the ab...@i1.net route.

I will be reposting this information whenever I feel like it.

Uncle Sam

--------------------

BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!

HOWE COME would a EXXXPERT such as tommy set their
INFORMATIVE posts to EXXXPIRE in six days like matty
a.k.a. Rocky, diddler, elegy, meat terri a.k.a. dogsnuts, professora
melanie chang, marquis de "READ KOEHLER FOR CONTENT"
shaw and not so handsome not so gentle jackass, not even jack
morrison a.k.a. joe finnochiarrio a.k.a. BIG DADDY a.k.a.
DOGMAN??

Ooops~! That last anonymHOWES coward is tommy.

Is tommy EMBARRASSED by his own words, the lyin animal
murderin punk thug coward mental case fraud an SCAM ARTIST?

matty aka Rocky EXXXPLAINS HOWE COME:

"Rocky" <2d...@rocky-dog.com> wrote
For reasons I'll only explain privately, I've gone no
archive, and it's a shame. Once in a while, while
looking for something else, I'll run into an old post
of mine.

What an idiotic response!

Whoops.

----------------


Here's a couple of tommy sorenson's aka not so handsome,
not so gentle, jackass, not even morrison a.k.a. DOGMAN,
the anonymHOWES COWARD's SUCCESSFUL "STUDENTS":

"Feisty, Humorous, Brave, Curious And
Playful. Full Of "Joie de Vivre," And DEAD.

From: Laura Arlov (l...@wordfixers.no)
Subject: Re: Chewie bit my husband !

Date: 1999/01/20

Quote laura:
Well, we're doing as you say Dogman,
and I'll keep you all posted.

Laura in Oslo

You're quite the dog enthusiast, eh laura?

Quote laura:
The listener,

You didn't WANT to listen to The Puppy Wizard when
HE told you you couldn't PUNISH and INTIMIDATE
your dog or you'd make IT aggressive.

Quote laura:
the observer.

NHOWE you got a DEAD DOG HOWETA it.

Quote laura:
We do work were you sometimes have to observe people

Like laura, MURDERING her dog...

Quote laura:
and take notes.

INDEEDY!

Quote laura:
B. has amazing powers of observation and concentration.

RIGHT...

Quote laura:
Laura and Angel in Oslo

steve walker's DEAD DOG Sampson was a shelter / rescue
Golden. He begain TURNING on his daughter so he PUNISHED
IT. That seemed to have CURED Sampson's FEAR of steve's
daughter but TAUGHT IT to attack OTHER daddy's daughters,
and GOT HIM DEAD, despite all the EXXXPERTEASE of HOWER
fellHOWE dog lovers here and the BIG SHOT, john rogerson,
in the UK <{}: ~ ( >

LIKE THIS:


BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAA~!~!~!

AND LIKE THIS:

Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
From: Steve Walker <skwal...@btinternet.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 01:54:57 +0100

Subject: Sad news (Samson)

Hello everyone, hope you remember me. I've been quiet
here for ages, firstly because of a computer breakdown
that took ages to remedy, and then it's been difficult
to find the heart to write to the group again.

You see, on Sep 21, after much heart-searching, I took
Samson back to the RSPCA to be put to sleep. He was a
brilliant dog with his family, but was becoming more &
more fear reactive with people, especially small children,
and (apparently randomly) with other dogs, to the point
where we had to muzzle him when he went out and if we
had visitors (which is often), because we just couldn't
trust people to remember to leave him alone, so his
quality of life had become not much.

We put him through a rehab programme from John Rogerson's
practice - I gather he's pretty well-known, so some of
you might have heard of him - which did everything they
said it would (reliable recall, focused his attention much
more on us, etc - except reduce his tendency to react
suddenly and bite.

The vet had checked him and found nothing, but I'd still
have suspected a brain tumour or something if it hadn't
been for the fact that he was totally reliable with the kids
and us.

I called the RSPCA to let them know that the rehab programme
wasn't working, and they said that if we gave him back, they'd
assess him but he'd almost certainly be put down.

I couldn't let him be alone among strangers for his last
moments, so I asked if they'd let me take him immediately
and stay with him while it was done, and they agreed.

It was a sunny day, and he was happy enough on the drive to
the centre, but I could barely hold myself together. He was
nervous of going into the surgery and I had to coax him in,
and I felt like an utter traitor.

I stroked him as they prepared him, crying and telling him
how sorry I was, and nearly panicked and ran out with him
when they brought out the needle.

But I knew if I did it would only be delaying the inevitable,
and I'd be risking someone, probably a child, being injured,
which I couldn't do. So I went through with it, and in a few
seconds it was over and I'd killed my dog, who trusted me
to look after him.

I told a mailing list I'm on straight away, and they've been
fantastically kind. I was in a daze for days afterwards, and
still have the occasional flashback to that day, but I'm coping
a lot better now, and would love to give a home to another dog,
but my wife doesn't feel ready yet.

Soon, though, I hope. I miss Samson terribly, but while I
feel a lot of guilt for the decision I made, I know there
wasn't another way out, and at least I could make sure I was
with him at the end.

I owed him that.

I know there are some here who will gloat over this email,
but all I can say is that their opinion, their existence,
is irrelevant to me. For the rest of you, the good, decent
majority who frequent this group, I didn't want to just
disappear, and not tell you what had happened, after you
gave me so much support and help from the outset.

Samson was my first dog, and the help I got here made
life much better for him and us while we were together.

If the glad day comes when we do adopt another dog,
I'll let you know. I hope it's soon.

God bless,
--
Steve Walker

-------------

Seems steevie is in DEEP DENIAL~!

From: Steve Walker <skwal...@btinternet.com>
Date: 2000/10/09

Subject: Re: Sad news (Samson) = I'm GLAD You Killed Samson,
He Was A BAD GENETIC Choice. You Did The Right Thing. Turn
And Don't Look Back.

In article FJ6E5.62103$O95.4439...@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com,
Jerry Howe <jh...@cfl.rr.com> writes

> Nor can I. Nor can Marilyn. She does the same kind of
> work I do. We KNEW this was going to happen, based
> on steve's original posts here...

Jerry, you're still in my killfile, but somehow this one
made it through, so I'll respond before I ignore you again.

You obviously have a very short memory. Samson was not
trained using aggressive, confrontational or harsh methods.
John Rogerson's rehab programme was based entirely on using
kind methods to get Samson's attention even more fixed on us
(which wouldn't have worked if they were not kind), with the
intention that Samson wouldn't even be interested in other
dogs and people, until we had such good control that we
could start to introduce others under controlled circumstances
that would persuade Samson it was great to have them around.

It worked, in so far as Samson became even more attached
to us, had a perfect recall etc. Unfortunately, this didn't
stop the fact that he might suddenly react aggressively to
even the proximity of a stranger or strange dog.

No aggressive methods were used in this programme. Not one.
But the problem was too deep-rooted, too instinctive, and
Samson just couldn't help himself.

He'd shake if a small child even entered the room, and if
they approached him he'd try to bite them. Not as a reaction
to aggression, but just because he had some deep-rooted fear
issue going back to before we ever had him.

We could not risk that he would injure someone, especially
a child, so we made the decision we did - not lightly, but
with tears.

You, however, are an idiot. Don't bother replying, because
even if one of your posts makes it past the killfile again,
you'll just be binned with the rest of the garbage.

Goodbye.
--
Steve Walker

-----------------

Naaaaah??

QUOTE FROM lyingdogDUMMY:

> "The only one I see acting like a fool is you, Crim,
> for buying into anything Howe ever has to say, about
> anything, and for not listening to me when it comes
> to dogs."

Ever hear the expression "sit rolls down hill?"

> but was becoming more & more fear reactive
> with people, especially small children,

That's it in a nutshell. You taught him through your own
actions, HOWE to deal with other, less capable beings.
Dogs copy our actions and attitudes. They mirror us. They
emulate us. And when we respond to their natural, innate,
instinctive, reflexive behaviors, with punishment, the dog
loses confidence in our judgement and leadership ability.

Seems I recall you mentioning the children were learning
to CORRECT Samson on lead, so THEY could enjoy walking
with him. Didn't you mention they were learning some alpha
dominance techniques as well?

Can't let that big lug pull down the children now, can we?

So you teach the children to violate the dog's trust with
a few good corrections. And YOU back up the children with
the HAMMERS OF HELL...

And it worked. Didn't it, just as I told you so.

Just as I told Robert Crim.

But you guys were too smart to be taken in by this con man.

You listened to our fear, force, and alpha dominance control
freaks, who learned ALL that they know about dog behavior from
the MADMAN, MONSTER, wm koehler.

So, it seems the only problem is that you didn't read
the back of the book. That's what our Gang Of Thugs fails
to mention, until it's too late.

That's the part that says when the dog is finally provoked
to act out on his trainer or other weaker family members,
that you've got to HANG the dog till his eyes roll back in
ITS head, ITS tongue turns thick and blue and falls out the
side of ITS mouth, and when you put IT back on the ground,
IT should stagger to IT'S feet, and PUKE.

That's the cure for this behavior problem, you just never asked.

I expect you'll enjoy your next dog as much as you enjoyed Samson.

Tell him HOWEDY for me, eh good buddy? Eh? Huh? Huh? Eh??? Eh???

Yours for responsible dog handling and training,
Jerry "Don't Confront The Dog," Howe.

From: Dogman <dog...@i1.net>
Date: 2000/10/08
Subject: Re: Sad news (Samson) = ninnyboy

"JohnK" <jo...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> It's too late. I already know what a disgusting, vile
> human being you are. You are to be ignored now.

Come on, John.

It didn't really take that Sampson post for you to know
that Howe is a disgusting, vile human being, did it?

I hope not.
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@i1.net
http://www.i1.net/~dogman


SEE?

AND LIKE THIS:

Subject: Re: RIP Teena 1999 - 2004
"Handsome Jack Morrison" <me10...@privacy.net.invalid> wrote in
message news:p8sn1093e89a5202r...@4ax.com...

> On 31 Jan 2004 17:48:39 GMT, KWBrown arfenarfSPAMBL...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> Well.
> She tried to take a bite out of our trainer, and that was that.
> Teena the ESS made her last trip to the vet and, I hope,
> sleeps more peacefully than she has in years.

I'm very sorry to hear that, Kate.

But going by the information you posted here about her,
you had no choice.

Godspeed, Teena.
--
Handsome Jack Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to reply via e-mail

Hello Dogdirtforbirdbrains,

You ain't getting away with that any more. You are not going to get
away with blaming genetics for the behavior problems created
through abusive training methods recommended by thugs like you
and Koehler, that cause dogs to turn on their owners and families,
and die as a result!

People are getting smart around here, and fast! You becoming well
recognized for what you are. I don't need to elaborate on that
anymore. Everybody knows.

> What a piece of shit you are, Crim. Blaming me, or blaming
> Koehler, for poor Fritz's problem, is like blaming a doctor who
> couldn't save your child's life, and that's unconscionable.

You told Crim that Koehler was fantastic. He bought it hook, line,
and sinker, and it sank him. You must know the risk, just as I do.
I've seen this sort of thing happen repeatedly for over thirty years.
It will stop. I'm not going to allow you people to get away with it
anymore.

I will dog you, Koehler, and all of your kind right to the gates of
Hell, and I'll train Appallion to keep you there forever. Guaranteed.
The gates of Hell are guarded by a Wits' End trained dog.

> Your dog was almost certainly predestined by his *genes* to end
> up like he did, particularly since he had *you* as his thoroughly
> confused, ignorant and inconsistent doofus owner.

No, it was the Koehler method that killed Fritz. It was your advice
that killed Fritz. It was me, not being here sooner, that killed Fritz.

Crim was a victim, just like Fritz. Crim did everything by the book,
exactly as per the instructions. He followed your advice. He lost,
big time. I could have predicted the outcome, the percentage of this
kind of "collateral damage" is unacceptably high.

Those things, I am certain of. Those things, I am determined to stop.

> The only one I see acting like a fool is you, Crim, for buying into
> anything Howe ever has to say, about anything,
> and for not listening to me when it comes to dogs.

You are mad at me, because I forced Crim to examine exactly what
happened to Fritz, and he came to the correct conclusion. If I
hadn't, he'd be doing the same things he'd done before, but harder,
and faster, and maybe lost his next dog, faster and harder.
You now blame the genes, you now blame Crim for mishandling.
You said it was a good thing he destroyed his untrustworthy dog.
That is the kind of response you have given many people over the
years, isn't it? I know that for certain, I've been fighting you
Thugs all my life. It's almost over now, people are getting wise to
you, and Koehler, and Fraud Die, and the rest of the "in crowd" here.

Before, it was just me fighting for proper handling and training
methods. You've all ganged up on me, trying everything possible
to discredit and intimidate me. That didn't work. Not one of you
cretins have successfully discredited any of my methods. Keep trying,
please.

Now, there are several competent professional dog trainers, all with
somewhat different but nonetheless acceptable, non force, methods.
For the first time in my career, I've learned something from another
dog trainer. We've got a good thing going now, and you and our
Gang Of Thugs have to change, or go off into obscurity, in shame
and contempt.

You can't make up for the harm you've done, but you were an
innocent victim just like Crim, and you can be forgiven, and
rehabilitated, and you don't have to continue doing any more harm.

The choice is up to you. It's time to do or die.

> Dogman aka "Big Daddy"
> dog...@i1.net

===================

BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!

AND LIKE THIS:

> On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:24:15 -0700, dogsnus
<"Terri"@cyberhighway> Wrote:>

> Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
> He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
> watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
> Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
> come forward and actually believe in his training manual.

Robert Crim writes:

I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope, understood
enough of the manual and it's counterparts by John Fisher
and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe and use it.

This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.

The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.

To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog.

Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake
names are more honest than people that use their real
names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.)
are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.

"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.

Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.

> And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and
> actually admit to buying and having success with his
> little black box.

I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.

> Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
> Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming
> to him! LOL!

I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.

>Terri

Yes it was, and that is sad.

Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)

============

SEE?

tommy sez:

> Sucker.

Crim wrote THAT about *YOU,* tommy,
"you insipid piece of cow dung!"

BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAA~!~!~!

SEE?

unsurrea...@yahoo.com

unread,
Dec 3, 2008, 10:40:38 PM12/3/08
to
Listen to Howe - he's an expert in this area since he's also a bitch
who won't stop peeing on the floor.

unsurrea...@yahoo.com

unread,
Dec 4, 2008, 1:01:06 PM12/4/08
to
On Dec 3, 10:40 pm, unsurreality_2...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Listen to Howe - he's an expert in this area since he's also a bitch
> who won't stop peeing on the floor.

And you should see him piss all over himself when asked to prove his
bully behavior in person...wow...I wouldn't want to sit in his chair!
Not to mention he hasn't had his annual bath this year. Man - what a
stench! And don't get me started on the bug hive in that ridiculously
stupid beard! And that hat and clothing gives new meaning to "Flea
Market." Unfortunately, he's BRINGING fleas there...

Ted Mittelstaedt

unread,
Dec 4, 2008, 2:01:35 PM12/4/08
to

"montana wildhack" <mon...@wildhack.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:2008120209042216807-montana@wildhackcominvalid...

> On 2008-12-02 00:53:26 -0500, "Ted Mittelstaedt" <te...@toybox.placo.com>
said:
>
> > How would I tell spay incontinence?
>
> She's really young for that sort of thing, but incontinence is usually
> seen as "leaking".
>

It's not that, then.

> Thank you so much for coming back and having a dialogue.
>
> One poster had recommended tethering her to you as one might do when
> doing initial housetraining to ensure that you get her outside if she
> starts sniffing. This would also eliminate counter-surfing when you
> aren't looking.
>
> Among other things, if she is favoring the carpet, she is probably
> still smelling urine: hers or another dog's. You can get a small black
> light at pet stores to check for urine. That's where the enzyme
> cleaners are your friend.
>

That's a great idea.

Ted

Ted Mittelstaedt

unread,
Dec 4, 2008, 2:53:05 PM12/4/08
to

"Janet Boss" <ja...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> wrote in message
news:janet-F4DA42....@news.individual.net...

> In article <abue06-...@news.ipinc.net>,
> "Ted Mittelstaedt" <te...@toybox.placo.com> wrote:
>
> > The one time I tried putting her on a leash inside, within 5 minutes she
had
> > chewed through it. (obviously I wasn't watching her) After that I
managed
> > to
> > find an old metal chain leash
> > at a secondhand store. (I don't understand why all the leashes you see
in
> > the stores today are fabric straps, but what do I know)
>
> Leashes of fabric or leather are much preferred for walking and
> training. Chain leashes weigh on a dog's collar and teaching walking on
> a loose leash makes less sense with that pressure.
>

Ah, OK I get it. Since 80% of casual dog owners likely don't know
that and wouldn't care if they did, I think I can figure this one out by
myself. Metal chains are about 25 cents more expensive per foot than
fabric,
so the suppliers of leashes did the usual Great American Screw The
Consumer trick of supplying a cheesier/cheaper leash, then marking it
up and claiming it's "better" using some baloney/bs excuse.

The weight difference of the 5 foot steel chain and the 6 foot fabric leash
is less than a pound. And if the dog is trained to heel, the majority of
the
chain weight is on the owner holding the chain, since they are holding the
chain -above- the dog. The 6 inches or so that may dangle down is
not significant in weight.

I've seen this same kind of argument with people arguing over whether
a steel or aluminum bicycle seat post is "better" The difference between
the posts in weight is less than a pound, but the aluminum ones break
and bend, and are 10 times more expensive. But, you will never convince
someone who has spent the money on a "racing" aluminum seatpost
that he wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

> > If we had the time to constantly keep a close eye on her when we are in
> > the house we wouldn't have this problem. But there's only so many hours
> > in the day - I get home around 6pm and go to bed at 10pm - to do that
> > would require me watching her constantly for 4 hours in the evening, and
> > it's just out of the question. We have to do mundane things like eat,
wash
> > dishes, put kids to bed, pay bills, etc. not to mention walking the dog
in
> > the evenings.
>
> Join the club. My dogs are pretty much WITH me when I'm doing those
> things. Warming my feet, hanging out nearby.
>

If your dogs are hanging out nearby I think that's a lot different than
keeping a
close eye on them. A close eye means just that - your constantly paying
close
attention to what they are doing. It doesen't mean that your paying close
attention to the stove when cooking dinner and just know in the back of your
mind that the dog is hanging around.

I don't think your experience of your dogs hanging around qualifies as the
kind of close attention that the other poster advised was needed.

> >
> > In general in the evening we don't have this problem. We have to
> > crate her during dinner because the kids will feed her scraps under the
> > table otherwise,
>
> That is a KID training issue. Teach BOTH of them table manners!
>

I know there are some people who have kids who act like the kids
on the Brady Bunch, but I've never met any parents who had those
kind of kids. All the parents I've met had kids that act like our kids.

Consider yourself extremely lucky that you have kids docile enough
that you can teach them to not feed the dog under the table.

And if you actually don't have kids at all, well then all I can say
is I know there's no possible way to convince non-parents that
children cannot be trained like dogs so I won't even try.

> > We also do not feed her after 5pm and we stop putting food in her bowl
> > around 3pm, she generally finishes it off before 5.
>
> Free feeding is a really bad idea for a dog with elimination problems
> (and IMO, not a good idea for most dogs). Start by scheduling her
> feedings and giving her a limited time to eat.
>
> > Most of the peeing seems to happen in the morning or afternoon, when
> > my wife is distracted with taking care of the kids. That is one of the
> > problems
> > as well.
>
> There are several options depending on the age of your children, their
> needs that need attending, and the layout of your home. Keeping the dog
> WITH the group, in some way, is the most helpful. That can be tethered
> to an object or mom, gated in the same room (or doors shut to keep her
> in the same room) etc.
>

Tethering inside isn't an option here. A fabric tether would be chewed
through.
A steel tether would scar up the furniture, we just don't have that much
room. The only realistic option for our setup is for her to be free running
inside the house and to learn to NOT pee or poop in the house.

> You also mentioned a 2 hour window of her urinating and when she has
> peed on the floor. Typically, MOST dogs (and especially young ones)
> here have gone out at 6, peed, then fed (expected to eat all of the
> food) then out again for more pee and poop, by 6:15. With a puppy or
> not fully trained dog, I would have them out again at 7:15.

Interesting. Well, last night I walked her at 10pm, then crated her, then
this morning I took her out at 6, she pooped
twice and peed twice. Then I fed her, then took her out again at 8. She
didn't mess on the floor during that time so maybe she is catching on,
I hope so. But she didn't eat much of the food. Then she was crated
when both my wife and I left.

I didn't realize that a dog could become "poop-ready" in 15 minutes that
soon after eating.

> Not too
> hard if you have a fenced yard,

We don't, and it wouldn't be possible anyway due to the layout of the
yard, detached garage and driveway.

> but quick no matter what. Then again
> before people leave for the day. How long is she crated during the day?

Generally no longer than 4 hours at a stretch during the day. If my wife is
going to be gone in the morning then she is always back by noon since
we have 1 kid that has to be picked up from school around then,
at that time she walks and feed the dog. After that, the crating is
irregular, it depends on whether my wife goes out or not.

> Sometimes, having to "hold it" for long periods can mess with the
> natural rhythm of the bladder.
>

Well, that's true for people too - but it's unavoidable in modern society.

So, can a dog be trained to use the toilet? I know that people have
trained cats to do so.

Ted

> --
> Janet Boss
> www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com


Ted Mittelstaedt

unread,
Dec 4, 2008, 2:53:45 PM12/4/08
to

"Spot" <sp...@somewhere.net> wrote in message
news:MYeZk.2357$QX3...@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...

What product do you recommend?

Ted


Melinda Shore

unread,
Dec 4, 2008, 3:13:48 PM12/4/08
to
In article <tvol06-...@news.ipinc.net>,

Ted Mittelstaedt <te...@toybox.placo.com> wrote:
>Tethering inside isn't an option here. A fabric tether would be chewed
>through.

No, no, no. You tether the dog to yourself. It's a way to
guarantee constant supervision even when your attention
wanders.

I think the point is that there are millions of
house-trained dogs in the US. If what you're doing isn't
working, do something else. Instead of reflexively thinking
"I can't do that" when someone offers a suggestion, try to
figure out how you could do that if you tried. Don't expect
not to change anything and still have a different outcome.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - sh...@panix.com

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

Janet Boss

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Dec 4, 2008, 3:28:23 PM12/4/08