Cats on Bed: Is it Unsanitary?
PA...@cunyvm.bitnet
Ever so often my boyfriend and I will argue about my cats sleeping on my
bed. He claims it's unsanitary, I say cats keeps themselves cleaner than
most people do. Plus, they're like kids to me and I enjoy their company
when I'm sleeping. Other than the cat fur on the bed, I see nothing wrong
in letting them nap on my bed.My boyfriend says that cats can't be clean
after scratching through a litter box.
Who's right?
Pat
yo...@serum.kodak.com
IMHO, you both are correct. Certainly, a cat's feet are less than
sterile after it's been in the litter box, but they are fastidious
creatures, and I don't think they carry around any more germs than
we humans...just different ones. Besides, their saliva is antibiotic
from what I understand, so a recently groomed cat should be fairly
"pure". I'd be a LOT more concerned about a dog (although I've
never gotten any disease from one of them, either).
-Rich (yo...@serum.kodak.com)
Art Campbell
You are.
Besides, your boyfriend's probably been places a cat wouldn't dream of
going...
--
Art Campbell ar...@atex.kodak.com 72227...@compuserve.com
DoD 358 _Real_ BMWs have just two wheels.
"... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
All the usual disclaimers apply.
Kathy Beatty
: Hi,
Me, of course. ;-)
I like my cats to sleep on the bed, but they do track kitty litter onto
it, which is probably unsanitary. But unless you are a cleanliness
fanatic, it's not that big a deal. IMHO, your boyfriend sounds way too
hung up on the need for sanitation.
Kathy 8^) Flames to alt.clean.howard.hughes, please.
Tony Buckland
Assuming that, like most people not currently engaged in the
production of porno movies, you sleep under sheets, blankets
and the like, and that, like most of us still exercising some
shred of discipline over the smaller members of the household,
you allow the cats to sleep only on top of the sheets, blankets
and the like, you should have nothing much to worry about.
Also consider that - though I would not dream of prying into what
you and your boyfriend do in your bed - your activities involving
you and your cats in bed involve fewer opportunities for
contamination that those of most pairs of human bedmates.
Carol C Denehy
sleep on your bed. Do not kiss your cat." Come on, that's one of the
reason we love the little stinkers. When I told this to my sister,
she responded, "If I didn't kiss my cats then I wouldn't have anyone
to kiss." And judging by the amount of time Penny spends washing,
she's a lot cleaner than I am most of the time.
Carol Denehy
STella
>Who's right?
He's right that the cats use the very same feet and tongues for
personal hygiene that they use for loving you up. You're right that
cats keep themselves cleaner than most people do, are good sleeping
companions, and that fluff on the bedspread is really the only big
problem (assuming that you think it a big problem -- me, I just figure
they help decorate).
But you know, I don't think he's REALLY worried about germs -- I think
he's jealous of your kitties -- he knows that after he's wandered off,
you'll still love the cats, who were there before he arrived. He
might be worth reassuring that you love him, but I wouldn't let him
dictate who else can share your bed. Monogamy, maybe, if you agree on
that, but not sleeping with the cats? No.... I sleep with cats, and
I'm willing to sleep with other people.
Of course, it could be that he had an experience much like one I
witnessed from an excellent point of view long ago. An acquaintance
asked me if I'd be willing to devirginate him, and (since this was so
long ago I thought charity-fucks were charitable) I agreed. I tried
to explain to him how to do what he was trying to do, but he kept
dabbing away at me with tentative little strokes that weren't getting
much more than the head in.
SUDdenly, he lunges forward and the entire length of his more than
adequate endowment slides in. "Like THAT!", I shout encouragingly,
just before he SCREAMS in my face. I look over his shoulder and
discover that my black tomkitten Henoze has leaped from the dresser
onto the gentleman's buttocks, landing with ALL claws deployed, and
that the gent is bleeding reproachfully at me.
If that's REALLY what your boy"friend" is concerned about, you might
consider either convincing him (if it's true) that your cats won't do
that to him, or shut them out of the room if they will.
STe...@xanadu.com 1016 E. El Camino Real, #302, Sunnyvale, CA 94087
Debbie Fuhry
>
[snip, snip]
>STe...@xanadu.com 1016 E. El Camino Real, #302, Sunnyvale, CA 94087
I've noticed other occasions where you add in stuff more appropriate to
alt.sex in your posts about cats. I've also noticed that those stories
aren't essential to get your point across.
I'd like to request that you consider leaving them out for those of us who
don't read alt.sex, and who don't *want* to read alt.sex. If you really
like posting stuff like that, I'm sure the readers of that newsgroup would
appreciate hearing your stories in a way that many r.p.c. readers do not.
Thanks.
Debbie
Ed Carp
>In article <92168.14...@CUNYVM.BITNET>, <PA...@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
>|> Hi,
>|>
>|> Ever so often my boyfriend and I will argue about my cats sleeping on my
>|> bed. He claims it's unsanitary, I say cats keeps themselves cleaner than
>|> most people do. Plus, they're like kids to me and I enjoy their company
>|> when I'm sleeping. Other than the cat fur on the bed, I see nothing wrong
>|> in letting them nap on my bed.My boyfriend says that cats can't be clean
>|> after scratching through a litter box.
>|>
>|> Who's right?
>You are.
>Besides, your boyfriend's probably been places a cat wouldn't dream of
>going...
Being single, living with a roommate, and having a cat (or she has me; it's
*her* apartment - she just lets me sleep there and pay the rent), I can say
there's nothing nicer than waking up next to a purring cat :) No, I don't
have an SO, either :)
--
Ed Carp e...@apple.com <-- preferred email address!
** Member, Linux port team - uucp division ** :)
Carol Miller-Tutzauer
Well, I've never seen a cat scrape up dirty litter with his/her
feet, only cover the nasties with clean litter. And since
litter is a desicate of sorts, I seriously doubt that there
are significant increases in nasty bugs or bacteria tracked into
the bed. Besides, it is probably safer from a health standpoint
to sleep with your cats than with your boyfriend -- as he will
be carrying more nasty bugs & such THAT ARE HARMFUL TO HUMANS
than are your cats (cross-species illnesses are fewer than
intra-species illnesses). Maybe if your boyfriend could see
all the nasties on his hands (perhaps under a microscope)
when he retires for bed, he might lay off the cats.
Besides... if your boyfriend is that hung up on your CAT's
litter habits, let alone his own or yours, I would get
another boyfriend. And give your cat extra hugs and kissies
in the meantime ;-).
Carol
Kathleen M. Saxon
6 years ago when Samantha first found me, show was a 5 week old stray,
very scrangly and skinny. I happened also to be wearing a bright yellow
quilted jacket that day. As I saw her coming toward me, I scooped her
up right away she instantly purred, it was love at first sight.
From that night on, she has always slept with me or at me feet.
Everytime I wore that jacket and took if off, Sam would snuggle onto
it. I was very lucky to marry a person who has the same heart-felt
feeling to animals that I do and he wasn't bothered that Sam was on the
bed. When we invested in an extremely nice comforter, I was a little
concerned
about shedding onto it. But I did not want to discourage Sam from her
sleeping place. The solution: the bright yellow coat! The coat is
shaped into a pillow and at the foot of my side of the bed. Needless, to
say, this is Sam's favorite place and I wash her jacket every week so
its clean and fresh smelling.
To me, waking up next to a purring cat, it one of the nicest feelings
in the world. (And waking up next to my husband ain't so bad either!!!)
Just my .02,
Kathy
sandra.e.braun
> The solution: the bright yellow coat! The coat is
> shaped into a pillow and at the foot of my side of the bed. Needless, to
> say, this is Sam's favorite place and I wash her jacket every week so
> its clean and fresh smelling.
I use a similiar technique to minimize cat hair on the bed. My cats like
to sleep at the foot of the bed, usually. I keep an old blanket folded
up covering the bottom portion of the bed. They tend to sleep only on this
now, maybe because it has their scent? Whenever it gets too much cat hair
I wash it. Saves me from taking my bed spread to the cleaners!
Sandy :)
p.s. I also vacuum my curtains and my bed spread. This really helps!
(Luckily my roomate has one of those high-powered Electrolux machines!)
Kathy Beatty
eventually barf on the bed at some point. Also, when I had had Tris for
two weeks, I came home from work one day to find some runny stools all
wrapped up in my sheets :-(. I figured out that she literally must have
"lost it" when she got tangled up in the sheets, since she had up to
then been litter box perfect. Unfortunately, I had yelled at her before
I did my detective work, and then felt bad that I had punished her for
an accident. I still, even after these adventures, don't worry about
them being on the bed, though.
Kathy
Caroline Smrstik
>In article <92168.14...@CUNYVM.BITNET> PA...@CUNYVM.BITNET writes:
>>Ever so often my boyfriend and I will argue about my cats sleeping on my
>>bed. He claims it's unsanitary, I say cats keeps themselves cleaner than
>>most people do. Plus, they're like kids to me and I enjoy their company
>>when I'm sleeping. Other than the cat fur on the bed, I see nothing wrong
>>in letting them nap on my bed.My boyfriend says that cats can't be clean
>>after scratching through a litter box.
>>Who's right?
(much of STella's wonderfully ribald anecdote deleted...)
> I look over his shoulder and
>discover that my black tomkitten Henoze has leaped from the dresser
>onto the gentleman's buttocks, landing with ALL claws deployed, and
>that the gent is bleeding reproachfully at me.
Eeuwww...what a mess! I hope you did not refrain from laughing; there are very
few things that are funnier than sex. Cats are one of them.
But back to the lady with the fussy boyfriend. I agree with the jealousy
theory. Though it is tempting to do pseudo-relationship-analysis ("if he's
that controlling about your cats, why do you like him at all?"), that really is
none of our business. The cats were there first, plain and simple. When the
cats are happy, you are happy. Is this not the boyfriend's goal?
Try it; make him laugh at the ridiculousness of worrying over a clean coverlet.
Maybe he should remove his clothing and wash it thoroughly before sitting in
your favorite chair. Does he bathe before lounging on The Bed? Well, the
cats do!
Life is too short to worry about things other than making love, good wine,
fresh cheese, and purring cats.
Carrie and her True Loves: Steve-guy, Graham Chapman, and Matilda just barely
"Public nudity is the evil the state seeks to prevent."
-- William Rehnquist, Chief Justice of the United States
kl...@iscsvax.uni.edu
> STella wrote:
> (much of STella's wonderfully ribald anecdote deleted...)
>
>> I look over his shoulder and
>>discover that my black tomkitten Henoze has leaped from the dresser
>>onto the gentleman's buttocks, landing with ALL claws deployed, and
>>that the gent is bleeding reproachfully at me.
>
> Eeuwww...what a mess! I hope you did not refrain from laughing; there are very
> few things that are funnier than sex. Cats are one of them.
Oh, does this bring back memories! First time my fiancee visited me,
I had a kitten. Typical, playful kitten. Steve had showered and
headed for bed, and I was in the shower when I heard a blood-curdling
screech (first I knew that someone who sang bass could reach E over
high C!). Seems Steve had been lying on his side under the sheet, and
wiggling his fingers behind him. Alice pounced, Steve hollered. He
was not amused when I pointed out that the damage might have been
worse had he wiggled the fingers in front of him!
15 years ago, and I can still hear the screech!
Kay Klier
Caroline Smrstik
>Life is too short to worry about things other than making love, good wine,
>fresh cheese, and purring cats.
>
>Carrie and her True Loves: Steve-guy, Graham Chapman, and Matilda just barely
I can't think what came over me. Curmudgeons don't say such things, especially
not publicly. My apologies.
Carrie the cynical (and the Tolerant Three)
Linda Snow
Your boyfriend is not a cat person.
You need to replace him.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Carol C Denehy
>In article <8+klp!k....@netcom.com>, c...@netcom.com (Caroline Smrstik) writes:
>> STella wrote:
>> (much of STella's wonderfully ribald anecdote deleted...)
>>
>>> I look over his shoulder and
>>>discover that my black tomkitten Henoze has leaped from the dresser
>>>onto the gentleman's buttocks, landing with ALL claws deployed, and
>>>that the gent is bleeding reproachfully at me.
>>
>I had a kitten. Typical, playful kitten. Steve had showered and
>headed for bed, and I was in the shower when I heard a blood-curdling
>screech (first I knew that someone who sang bass could reach E over
>high C!). Seems Steve had been lying on his side under the sheet, and
>wiggling his fingers behind him. Alice pounced, Steve hollered. He
>was not amused when I pointed out that the damage might have been
>worse had he wiggled the fingers in front of him!
>
Penny loves to pounce on things moving under the covers. She
can hurl herself the length of the bed to do so. Feet, hands,
anything. Use your imagination and figure out why she is now
banished from the bedroom during intimate moments.
Carol Denehy
and Penelope Sophia
Pete J Suters
> >Hi,
> >
> >Ever so often my boyfriend and I will argue about my cats sleeping on my
> >bed. He claims it's unsanitary, I say cats keeps themselves cleaner than
> >most people do. Plus, they're like kids to me and I enjoy their company
> >when I'm sleeping. Other than the cat fur on the bed, I see nothing wrong
> >in letting them nap on my bed.My boyfriend says that cats can't be clean
> >after scratching through a litter box.
> >
> >Who's right?
> >
> >Pat
I don't think it's a case of whether having a cat on the bed is
sanitary or not, the main problem with me is whether I'm going
to get a decent night's sleep!
When Roo (our little monster) manages to sneak onto my bed,
I usually have to put up with little feet marching on me, or
jumping off and back onto the bed at about 4am, or being woken
by the sound of little claws gently ripping the bed to bits.
She also has a habit of making sure you are awake when she
is by walking up your chest and Miawing at you, or licking
you until you wake up.
Needless to say, I don't let her sleep on the bed that often!
This reminds me of another rude awakening I got when sleeping
on the floor at a friend's house. They had just got a kitten (Otto)
who was an incredibly curious little thing. That morning I had
a duvet over me, and was woken by little picking noises, as he
was trying to work out whether anyone was under the bedsheets.
I pulled down the duvet to be confronted with a little kitten-face
staring into mine, which then promptly bit me on the nose!!
Trust me, cats and beds don't mix!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
------ \ "Excuse me, but do you dig graves?"
| pj | \ "Yeah, yeah, they're all right!"
------ \ "Oh good, I think they're wonderful"
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Roger Gonzalez
Bah. I suspect your feet are more unsanitary than your cat. Anyone who
worries that much about sanitary conditions is so AR that they probably wash
their hands twice after blowing their nose.
The most unsanitary thing my cats have ever contributed to my bed were the
occasional hersheys kiss on the sheet from Insufficient Wiping of the Bottom.
Do I freak out, tear the sheets off, and have them burned? Hardly. Clean it
with a little soap 'n' water, and its all gone.
The cats are usually more upset than I when they do this; they look at me
plaintively and try to bury the spot with invisible sand.
My $0.02.
-Roger
--
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting
than the question of whether a submarine can swim" - Edsger W. Dijkstra
Roger Gonzalez - r...@msel.unh.edu
Division of Bit Banging and Reluctant Robotics
UNH Marine Systems Engineering Laboratory, Durham, NH 03824-3525
(603) 862-4600 -4399 (fax)
Kathy Beatty
includes people like my sister and brother-in-law in the hide-a-bed in the
living room, as well) - she would just position herself on a corner of the
bed and GLARE at the offender(s). My guests usually reported a poor night's
sleep due to the discomfort of unfriendly eyes riveted on them all night.
I'd say, however, that Circe's technique was rather effective. She did
relent after a night or two, anyway.
Kathy
dave budd
and turn a bit, so she's moved to the wicker chair.
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pop-psychology #725: I blame the parents |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Dave Budd, MCC, Oxford Rd, Manchester, England (44)061-275-6033 |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
dave budd
>banished from the bedroom during intimate moments.
When Kate & I get started, Truffle looks at the bed, thinks "I'll never get
comfortable there with all that going on" and leaves.
Dawn Eminger
>>anything. Use your imagination and figure out why she is now
>>banished from the bedroom during intimate moments.
>
>When Kate & I get started, Truffle looks at the bed, thinks "I'll never get
>comfortable there with all that going on" and leaves.
>
Sheba does the same thing! It's so funny to see where she is hiding this
time. Usually she is facing the wall (eeeew, what are they _doing_?)
~D~
Brian Millham
> I'd like to request that you consider leaving them out for those of us who
> don't read alt.sex, and who don't *want* to read alt.sex. If you really
Hey, I'd rather read STella's stories than read Yet Another Declawing
Flame War.
--
Brian Millham Kitty, Ferrah, Dr. Pepper, Fletch, and Buddy
AT&T Bell Labs ^ ^ ferrets ^, ^ cats ^
Denver, Co. Dragon's Lair, Kick Man, Sinistar, New World, High Speed
b...@druwa.att.com ^ laser disc ^ video ^ ^ pinball ^
Amy Kurtzman
The way I see it, by sharing the same living space, my kitties and I
have the same germ set anyway. I probably contribute more new germs
because I go outside and they don't. We all walk barefoot (barepawed
in their case) around the house and then stuff our bare feet between
the sheets. I haven't had any illness that can be attributed to
sleeping with cats, or even been sick more than normal.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Amy Kurtzman | "By August I'll be just a puddle."
am...@netcom.COM |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Poirier
>Ever so often my boyfriend and I will argue about my cats sleeping on my
>after scratching through a litter box.
Methinks your boyfriend is rationalizing to disguise jealousy. Have you
considered having him neutered? It often makes Toms less territorial....
:-)
Cheers,
Charles Poirier
Charles Poirier
>I've noticed other occasions where you add in stuff more appropriate to
>alt.sex in your posts about cats. I've also noticed that those stories
>aren't essential to get your point across.
Who appointed you Editor, Style Council, and/or Purity Monitor? Everybody
thinks that limiting freedom of speech is a great idea, as long as *they*
get to do the limiting. Basically, I disagree that you or anyone is
qualified to say what is essential.
>I'd like to request that you consider leaving them out for those of us who
>don't read alt.sex, and who don't *want* to read alt.sex. If you really
>like posting stuff like that, I'm sure the readers of that newsgroup would
>appreciate hearing your stories in a way that many r.p.c. readers do not.
>Debbie
The first responsibility of freedom is tolerance.
I'm sure you believe you are being helpful, Debbie, but rest assured,
such censorship is not universally appreciated. Please exercise your
freedom to not read postings from people who offend you. Do not presume
to speak "for the group" (that includes me) about how points are or are not
to be made. Put STella in your kill file if you must.
As long as we're volunteering humble opinions here, I thought the story
about the cat dive-bombing the poor guy's buns was (a) hilarious,
(b) totally appropriate to the topic of the safety of cats on the bed,
and (c) quintessential Cat. Leave it in.
Cheers,
Charles Poirier
Elisabeth Riba
I strongly recommend the book "Cat House" by Michael Peak (available
in the SF section of bookstores) There is a HYSTERICAL scene of one
of the cats trying to figure out what's going on when her human has
sex.
--
--------------->Elisabeth Anne Riba * l...@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu<---------------
"How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Angels simply don't dance.
They may listen appreciatively to the Music of the Spheres, but they don't
feel the urge to get down and boogie to it. So, none." --Good Omens
Ruth
>
> Hi,
>
> Ever so often my boyfriend and I will argue about my cats sleeping on my
> bed. He claims it's unsanitary ...
stuff deleted
>
> Who's right?
>
Did you say "your bed"? In that case, your cats, your bed, your problem - do
what you feel best for you.....
When I go to bed at night - I call all mine in from the lounge to the bedroom
with the order "Come on you lot - time for bed!" I LOVE having them on the bed,
throughout the night, it gives me comfort (and it's damn lonely sleeping on
your own). Like you, I treat mine like the kids I don't have (yet, hopefully).
As far as I am concerned, if they are clean enough to live in my house, they are
clean enough to sleep on my bed - try that one on him!
My boyfriend and I have argued about this too, but when he does stay over, he's
a heavier sleeper than me, so I just wait till he's snoring before I call the
mob in!!!.
Anupama Chathampally - co-op
>In article <11najp...@early-bird.think.com> fu...@think.com (Debbie Fuhry) writes:
>>I've noticed other occasions where you add in stuff more appropriate to
>>alt.sex in your posts about cats. I've also noticed that those stories
>>aren't essential to get your point across.
>
>Who appointed you Editor, Style Council, and/or Purity Monitor? Everybody
>thinks that limiting freedom of speech is a great idea, as long as *they*
>get to do the limiting. Basically, I disagree that you or anyone is
>qualified to say what is essential.
>
I would like to second Charles' opinion. I loved the story and almost fell
on the floor laughing. In fact I made a copy so my sig other could read it.
Keep up the fun posts!
Vicki Holzhauer
Interesting discussion, this. My two cats sleep on the bed with
me--Abigail is usually above the covers, Zarabeth under them (curled
up against my stomach). One of my first questions to a person with
whom I'm contemplating a relationship is, "do you like cats?" If the
answer is negative, I wouldn't be interested in becoming involved. I
think that if I were mistakenly to become involved with someone who
objected to sleeping with cats, he would be the one to go, not the
cats.
I've had cats since I was 3 years old. Far longer than I've had men
in my life. One must establish priorities! :-)
--
Vicki Holzhauer, National Center for Atmospheric Research
Internet: vi...@ncar.ucar.edu
"Why should I fear dying? I've written down every thought I ever
had." -- Isaac Asimov, in an NPR Interview
Wayne Hughes
>alt.sex in your posts about cats. I've also noticed that those stories
>aren't essential to get your point across.
>I'd like to request that you consider leaving them out for those of us who
>don't read alt.sex, and who don't *want* to read alt.sex. If you really
>like posting stuff like that, I'm sure the readers of that newsgroup would
>appreciate hearing your stories in a way that many r.p.c. readers do not.
I've noticed STella's postings on other newsgroups also. I find them
interesting to read, and of considerable wit. I don't mind seeing
her postings here, and really hate the thought of restricting the
content to satisfy a few people who refuse to learn the value of
a kill file. Sex is a part of life, and most often it isn't s*x.
Anyway, I'd rather read STella's writing, than articles consisting
of complaint (including my own!).
Wayne
CatWoman
] c...@netcom.com (Caroline Smrstik) writes:
] > STella wrote:
] > (much of STella's wonderfully ribald anecdote deleted...)
] >
] >> I look over his shoulder and
] >>discover that my black tomkitten Henoze has leaped from the dresser
] >>onto the gentleman's buttocks, landing with ALL claws deployed, and
] >>that the gent is bleeding reproachfully at me.
] >
] > Eeuwww...what a mess! I hope you did not refrain from laughing; there are very
] > few things that are funnier than sex. Cats are one of them.
]
] Oh, does this bring back memories!
{another good story deleted...}
] wiggling his fingers behind him. Alice pounced, Steve hollered. He
] was not amused when I pointed out that the damage might have been
] worse had he wiggled the fingers in front of him!
Heh. When Biscuit came to live with me, I was still
married - she was about 6 weeks old, very tiny, and
started out as she has remained - a little flirt who
prefers male humans and a cuddler who likes to sleep
under the covers.
I got up one morning to go to work, and the next thing
I heard was a VERY loud yell. Seems that Biscuit had
woken up when I did - but stayed under the covers where
she discovered this great, wonderful, twitching plaything
under there with her...so she stalked it, and jumped it
with intent to kill! I don't think my ex had ever gotten
up that fast before or since...
Since then she's been better behaved - she's been known
to lick the toes of some guys at some inopportune times,
and she ALWAYS considers that any hands she sees - especially
if they're moving - should be dedicated to petting her.
My current PYM has been known to look around at whichever
of the cats was watching and say,"Yes, this is how humans
do this". 8-)
Diana
STella
>>I've noticed other occasions where you add in stuff more appropriate to
>>alt.sex in your posts about cats. I've also noticed that those stories
>>aren't essential to get your point across.
>Who appointed you Editor, Style Council, and/or Purity Monitor? Everybody
>thinks that limiting freedom of speech is a great idea, as long as *they*
>get to do the limiting. Basically, I disagree that you or anyone is
>qualified to say what is essential.
My reaction exactly. Unless I'm mistaken, and it is a distinctive
name, I've already gotten email from Fuhry, who objected last time I
wrote something suitable for the adults I presume read the net. I
probably sent her a copy of this formletter (and if not, she's getting
flamed enough that she might need one ANYway), considered her point,
said "Naaaaah!", and went on. Debby, you're free to use this to reply
to folks who try to tell you what to do on the net:
"Thank you very much for your flame. I did read it; it may or may not
have an effect on my behavior. Had it not been a flame, this reply
would not have been a form-letter."
>As long as we're volunteering humble opinions here, I thought the story
>about the cat dive-bombing the poor guy's buns was (a) hilarious,
>(b) totally appropriate to the topic of the safety of cats on the bed,
>and (c) quintessential Cat. Leave it in.
Thank you, Charles. If I had not thought it relevant, I probably
wouldn't have posted it. Quintessential cat? I am honored.
But yeah, feline curiosity about the reproductive (or in my case,
non-reproductive) behavior of other species is very essentially cat,
and, you guessed it, reminds me of another story. (Debs, dear, you
are reminded to hit "n" now.)
There I was, in a position generally used by female missionaries, and
there he was, pretending to be a male missionary. When male people are
"playing missionary", a portion of that which makes them male is
mostly concealed from the gaze even of the young, curious and feline.
Another portion, that portion which is oft used in the crude and
vulgar idiom to indicate great courage (and have you ever asserted
that someone, male or female, has a lot of ovaries, after a display of
courage?), was bobbling about just exterior to the source of strange
smells and intriguing noises.
Kittens, especially six week old kittens who've just learned to climb
a blanket and make it onto the bed with the big cats and the people,
are curious. Hearing/seeing events not previously observed, they will
listen intently, watch carefully, and perhaps even move closer,
ignoring fear of being squashed, to get a better view.
In this case, I assume from subsequent events, the skitten sought
better view of what may have appeared to be two furry eggs attacking
both of the people in places of which they are protective. (The
skitten had already earned a few flying lessons for such misdemeanors
as walking on the boyparts of my boypartner without retracting claws,
and for attempting to pull a string I preferred remain unpulled, since
I was not imperilled by the red mouse hiding within my person. A
gentle lob across the bed into a nice soft pile of dirty laundry may
not, on one occasion, reeducate a kitten, but will at least distract
it for long enough to do some good; eventually such airborne
adventures will convince most cats that something is best not-done.
Who knows, maybe he WASN'T trying to protect us from furry eggs.)
Brave Sir Kitten, unhampered by fear of these audacious eggs, almost
the size of his own tiny and somewhat fuzzier body, leaped and
pounced. Viciously.
It's a good thing I only bed with catlovers these days. I'll leave it
at that. We all survived, and the two humans even continued our
missionary work. In time.
STe...@xanadu.com 1016 E. El Camino Real, #302, Sunnyvale, CA 94087
Krissie Griffiths
>
>I've had cats since I was 3 years old. Far longer than I've had men
>in my life. One must establish priorities! :-)
well, obviously you have your priorities quite straight and in proper order, i
feel exactly as you do, the cats stay at all costs, the human is out the door!
kg
Marsha Jo Hannah
When I go to bed at night - I call all mine in from the lounge to the bedroom
with the order "Come on you lot - time for bed!" I LOVE having them on the bed,
throughout the night, it gives me comfort (and it's damn lonely sleeping on
your own).
One of my friends once wished he could have enough cats that he would
never need blankets on the bed. However, that was when he was between
wives....
marie megna
bed with me, she's god company. I agree with the fact that they can disturb
your sleep, like when they get cold and burrow under the covers (of course she
can't just get under and go to sleep, she has to make noise, bump you about
100 times trying to get the covers up enough so she can fit, then she has to
turn cirles under the covers about 100 times to get comfy.
I guess I just got used to it. The thing she does do that I find a bit
annoying is in the morning, she'll suck on the end of my noise, purring as
loud as possibl;e, to wake me up. We all know cats have NASTY breath, so this
is a rather icky thing. I love her tho, so I don't get too mad, just annoyed
and I try to discourage it, but she still does it, and she's 5 years old now.
it must depend on your taste, but I like to have a kitty for companionship,
even if she distrubs your sleep. The funny thing is, in the morning, when I'm
groggy eyed in the ktchen, getting ready to go to work, she'll be sleeping
like a baby (as if I was the one who kept her up all night!!!!!) and I ahve to
ruff her up a bit, just to get even before i go!!!!
Happy Sleeping......
Marie
Susan Butler
>>alt.sex in your posts about cats. I've also noticed that those stories
>>aren't essential to get your point across.
And who appointed YOU!!! What some people won't come up
with in the name of censorship. No one is saying she can't
say whatever she wants, even if it is in poor taste, she just
does not need to do it on THIS GROUP. She could have told
the same story without all the "details" thrown in and it would
have been a MUCH better story. I doubt that Debbie and I are
alone in this feeling, either.
>Who appointed you Editor, Style Council, and/or Purity Monitor? Everybody
>thinks that limiting freedom of speech is a great idea, as long as *they*
>get to do the limiting. Basically, I disagree that you or anyone is
>qualified to say what is essential.
>
>>I'd like to request that you consider leaving them out for those of us who
>>don't read alt.sex, and who don't *want* to read alt.sex.
I second the motion!!!!
>>If you really
>>like posting stuff like that, I'm sure the readers of that newsgroup would
>>appreciate hearing your stories in a way that many r.p.c. readers do not.
>>Debbie
>
>The first responsibility of freedom is tolerance.
>
The first responsibility of freedom is caring about the
feelings of other people.
>I'm sure you believe you are being helpful, Debbie, but rest assured,
>such censorship is not universally appreciated. Please exercise your
>freedom to not read postings from people who offend you. Do not presume
>to speak "for the group" (that includes me) about how points are or are not
>to be made. Put STella in your kill file if you must.
>
>As long as we're volunteering humble opinions here, I thought the story
>about the cat dive-bombing the poor guy's buns was (a) hilarious,
>(b) totally appropriate to the topic of the safety of cats on the bed,
>and (c) quintessential Cat. Leave it in.
Bawdy remarks deleted, of course.
>
> Cheers,
> Charles Poirier
Jon Krueger
> [boyfriend claims cats sleeping on bed is unsanitary]
Probably best not to get specific about humans, how sanitary they are,
what crawls around on their skin, in their mouth, their hair, their
skin, what their sweat, dander, breath deposit where they sleep. Might
not be pleasant. Let's just say that the risk from your cat is smaller.
> [he says] cats can't be clean after scratching through a litter box.
How clean do you keep your litter box? Most cats (not all) are as
clean urinating and defecating as the litter box permits.
Still not a good idea to let your cats jump on kitchen counters. But
unless you prepare food on the bed, this isn't an issue here.
Issue: your boyfriend is competing for your attention. Probably the
whole of the issue. Certainly part of it.
-- Jon
--
Jon Krueger j...@ingres.com
S. Mudgett aka little gator
In article <1992Jun17....@auto-trol.com> kat...@auto-trol.com
(Kathy Beatty) writes:
>
> Not to be gross, but cats that sleep on the bed will, more than likely,
> eventually barf on the bed at some point.
leela barfed mouse parts on the bed one night, but at least she missed my feet.
> an accident. I still, even after these adventures, don't worry about
> them being on the bed, though.
ditto.
--
-- little gator aka S. Mudgett email: s...@harvee.uucp
-- friend of a gator is a friend of mine
Charles H. Chapman
>Not to be gross, but cats that sleep on the bed will, more than likely,
>eventually barf on the bed at some point.
Our cat, Buzz has very good manners in this respect. He *always* hops
off the bed when he feels the need to barf. Now if he would just run
to the nearest newspaper or litter box...
Chuck
Charles H. Chapman (GTRI/MATD) (404) 528-7588
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp: ...!{allegra,amd,hplabs,ut-ngp}!gatech!matd!cchapman
Internet: ccha...@matd.gatech.edu
M'Linda Taylor
>
>In article <1992Jun17....@auto-trol.com> kat...@auto-trol.com
>(Kathy Beatty) writes:
>>
>> Not to be gross, but cats that sleep on the bed will, more than likely,
>> eventually barf on the bed at some point.
>leela barfed mouse parts on the bed one night, but at least she missed my feet.
>
>> an accident. I still, even after these adventures, don't worry about
>> them being on the bed, though.
>ditto.
Before people start getting even more out of hand....I know *people* who
have barfed in bed. Much worse than when kitty does it! (Although none
of my kids have ever barfed in bed -and I've had cats for 24 years-)
Rio once came to bed after falling in old motor oil.....Blech.....
Anyone ever had the joyous experience of cleaning up a p*ssed cat
who is saturated in used motor oil??? None of us were happy about it!
(It took 4 separate baths!) She still can't figure out why she isn't
allowed in peoples garages any more. %/ (or outside for that matter).
M'Linda
Mom-cat to Rio-the-REALLY-loud and Thomasina-the-cute
************************************************
* - Lonestar - *
*Internet: mli...@novell.COM *
*UUCP: {ames,sun,apple,amdahl}!novell!mlinda *
************************************************
M'Linda Taylor
>In article <1992Jun17....@auto-trol.com> kat...@auto-trol.com
> (Kathy Beatty) writes:
>
>>Not to be gross, but cats that sleep on the bed will, more than likely,
>>eventually barf on the bed at some point.
>
>Our cat, Buzz has very good manners in this respect. He *always* hops
>off the bed when he feels the need to barf. Now if he would just run
>to the nearest newspaper or litter box...
>
One of my sisters cats used to INSIST on going outside when she had to
barf....House rule #6: Any one who see's Pookie *running* for the door
with "that look" and doesn't let her out, cleans up after her.
M'Linda
Cat-Mom to Rio-the-loud and Thomasina-the-cute
Shuman Lloyd Lee
was .. by Susan But...@irscscm.UUC
> with in the name of censorship. No one is saying she can't
> say whatever she wants, even if it is in poor taste, she just
> does not need to do it on THIS GROUP. She could have told
> the same story without all the "details" thrown in and it would
> have been a MUCH better story. I doubt that Debbie and I are
> alone in this feeling, either.
Oh I get it. You can say whatever you want, as long as you take care
that I don't hear it (if I didn't want to in the first place, of course).
Golly gee, sounds like censorship to me.
Excerpts from netnews.rec.pets.cats: 22-Jun-92 Re: Jealous Boyfriends
was .. by Susan But...@irscscm.UUC
> The first responsibility of freedom is caring about the
> feelings of other people.
>
Say what?? The responsibility of your freedom is to not infringe on
other's rights. By rights, I mean things like property rights, right to
equality before the law, right to privacy. Since when is there a "right
to not have your feelings hurt?"
Jean L. Cooper
eat it in peace--on the foot of my bed. Have you
ever woken up to find blood and bird feathers in the bed?
Ick!
--
Jean L. Cooper (BITNET: JL...@virginia.edu CIS: 70253,1114)
"The true University of these days is a Collection of Books."
--Carlyle
Michelle Clinard
My friend and I have been friends for over 10 years - close friends. The
problem is that I'm *major* allergic to cats. My eyes swell shut, I can no
longer breath, you get the picture. I like cats, I just can't be around them.
She has had cats for the past 3-4 years, so I avoid her place like the
plague. Occasionally I go over, and every time I've ended up spending
quite a bit a time in the bathroom flushing my eyes with water, just so
I could see to drive home. She knows this, but still gets pissed that
I don't come to see her more often. My grandmother has cats, but she
also cleans constantly and has hardwood floors, so I rarely get an
attack of "kitty-face" when I visit her. I also pet the cats at the barn
where I keep my horse. For some reason the cats don't bother me when
I'm outside. Maybe it's just the dander concentration in carpets and
furniture that gets to me. Anyhow, this friend thinks I'm shunning
her in particular, and I don't know how to convince her otherwise. I
invite her to my place a lot, but it seems to bother her that she's the
one that has to do all the driving. I don't want to lose a friendship,
but I also enjoy my vision, and breathing.
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
-Michelle
Rich Holmes
>We all know cats have NASTY breath,
Mine doesn't. His breath has hardly any smell at all. I suppose it
might have to do with diet, age, heredity... but if Cyrus were to
develop bad breath, I'd suspect a health problem.
--
- Rich Holmes - - - - - - - - - - - - - rsho...@mailbox.syr.edu -
WARNING: This .sig has been cruelly tested on animals.
kl...@iscsvax.uni.edu
>
>>Not to be gross, but cats that sleep on the bed will, more than likely,
>>eventually barf on the bed at some point.
>
> Our cat, Buzz has very good manners in this respect. He *always* hops
> off the bed when he feels the need to barf. Now if he would just run
> to the nearest newspaper or litter box...
You're lucky (sigh!). Catkin *runs* to me to tell me he's going to lose
it... and then backs away vigorously from any newspaper you attempt to
put in front of him. Cats!
Kay Klier
Milind Pandit,,,
>He's right that the cats use the very same feet and tongues for
>personal hygiene that they use for loving you up. You're right that
>cats keep themselves cleaner than most people do, are good sleeping
>companions, and that fluff on the bedspread is really the only big
>problem (assuming that you think it a big problem -- me, I just figure
>they help decorate).
>
>But you know, I don't think he's REALLY worried about germs -- I think
>he's jealous of your kitties -- he knows that after he's wandered off,
>you'll still love the cats, who were there before he arrived.
It is clear that the following background information might be offensive to some, amusing to others, and just plain uninteresting to others (like me). I read this group for information/stories about cats, not detailed anecdotes about other people's sexual relations. The following has nothing to do with cats, but might be relevant to other newsgroups.
>He
>might be worth reassuring that you love him, but I wouldn't let him
>dictate who else can share your bed. Monogamy, maybe, if you agree on
>that, but not sleeping with the cats? No.... I sleep with cats, and
>I'm willing to sleep with other people.
>
>Of course, it could be that he had an experience much like one I
>witnessed from an excellent point of view long ago. An acquaintance
>asked me if I'd be willing to devirginate him, and (since this was so
>long ago I thought charity-fucks were charitable) I agreed. I tried
>to explain to him how to do what he was trying to do, but he kept
>dabbing away at me with tentative little strokes that weren't getting
>much more than the head in.
>
>SUDdenly, he lunges forward and the entire length of his more than
>adequate endowment slides in. "Like THAT!", I shout encouragingly,
The following, on the other hand, seems relevant to this newsgroup.
>just before he SCREAMS in my face. I look over his shoulder and
>discover that my black tomkitten Henoze has leaped from the dresser
>onto the gentleman's buttocks, landing with ALL claws deployed, and
>that the gent is bleeding reproachfully at me.
>
>If that's REALLY what your boy"friend" is concerned about, you might
>consider either convincing him (if it's true) that your cats won't do
>that to him, or shut them out of the room if they will.
The whole idea behind having different newsgroups for different subjects is so that people don't have to wade through articles that are uninteresting, irrelevant, or offensive to them. So it is not censorship to ask that details not relevant to a particular newsgroup be left out of articles posted on it.
Just my humble two cents worth...
---
| Milind S. Pandit | Standard disclaimers apply. |
| pan...@iwarp.intel.com |-------------------------------|
| Operating Systems Engineer, iWarp Program | Who knows what evil lurks |
| Intel Corp., Beaverton, OR | in the hearts of men? |
Ruth D Miller
>In article <1992Jun22.2...@sco.com> mar...@sco.COM (marie megna) writes:
>
>>We all know cats have NASTY breath,
>
>Mine doesn't. His breath has hardly any smell at all. I suppose it
>might have to do with diet, age, heredity... but if Cyrus were to
>develop bad breath, I'd suspect a health problem.
I agree with this--halitosis (bad breath) is a very good sign of tooth
decay or other health problems in your cat. Have a look in her mouth
and check the gums for redness and swelling. You can give her a much
longer and more comfortable life by paying attention to symptoms like
this. As a rule cats and dogs both have more sanitary (therefore presumably)
less smelly) mouths than humans.
From one whofound out the pain of bad teeth in a loving feline friend too
late--
Ruth
Stephen Dennison
In article <keFnXIK00...@andrew.cmu.edu>, Shuman Lloyd Lee <sl...@andrew.cmu.edu> writes...
>Excerpts from netnews.rec.pets.cats: 22-Jun-92 Re: Jealous Boyfriends
>was .. by Susan But...@irscscm.UUC
[Susan's stuff deleted]
>
>Oh I get it. You can say whatever you want, as long as you take care
>that I don't hear it (if I didn't want to in the first place, of course).
>
>Golly gee, sounds like censorship to me.
Chill, Shuman. *None* of this is a matter of human or civil rights, but
rather propriety and good taste. Susan *assumes* intelligence, good will,
and compassion as `givens' in this forum. Those, unfortunately, are facts
*not* in evidence.
>
>Excerpts from netnews.rec.pets.cats: 22-Jun-92 Re: Jealous Boyfriends
>was .. by Susan But...@irscscm.UUC
>> The first responsibility of freedom is caring about the
>> feelings of other people.
>>
>
>Say what?? The responsibility of your freedom is to not infringe on
>other's rights. By rights, I mean things like property rights, right to
>equality before the law, right to privacy.
.. well, now we have Shuman's `opinion' and Susan's `opinion' on what the
first responsibility of freedom is (unless, of course, in my last absence
from the planet, one of them was adopted as a constitutional amendment).
>
>Since when is there a "right to not have your feelings hurt?"
>
In *my* `OPINION', it is *my* _RIGHT_ and Susan's _RIGHT_ to expect the
posts in this group to consist of material that is not purposfully
offensive to animal lovers in general and cat lovers specifically. We earn
this _RIGHT_ by posting in like manner ourselves.
We cannot, however, enforce this _RIGHT_, therefore the point is moot.
Instead of trying to *convince* purposfully hurtful individuals that they
should be otherwise, I simply call morons morons, and in the future I would
suggest that Susan do the same. Now if *that* hurts *your* feelings...
.. well, I see from the above statement that you have waived *your* right
not to have your feelings hurt so I guess we needn't worry about it,
correct ?
-- Stephen
nuthin' left but the signature... press `n' to skip it.
The `past' is the pablum we feed our souls when the `future' has
soured. Though it will sustain us, it will not allow growth.
Ruth Milner
>>>I've noticed other occasions where you add in stuff more appropriate to
>>>alt.sex in your posts about cats. I've also noticed that those stories
>>>aren't essential to get your point across.
>>Who appointed you Editor, Style Council, and/or Purity Monitor?
> And who appointed YOU!!! No one is saying she can't
> say whatever she wants, even if it is in poor taste, she just
> does not need to do it on THIS GROUP.
First, let me say that I enjoyed STella's story very much, sexual detail and
all.
However, she made a comment in her response about the adult readership
of this group. No-one has yet pointed out (that I have seen) that not all
readers of this group *are* adults. I have seen postings from at least two
children, and I expect there are others out there who either cannot post or
do not yet have the confidence to do so.
Not all parents are happy about their children, especially young ones, reading
this kind of material. Whether or not we all agree with that is irrelevant.
Should they have to read all the articles themselves first, to check for
"suitability"? In a group like this one, I don't think so. If you're watching
National Geographic with your kids, you don't expect to find zoom-in-on-the-
genitals close-ups of sexual activities. Animals mating, yes, but no close-
ups then either. No more should they have to anticipate it here.
I think it's wonderful that this group can be a medium for teaching children
the great responsibilities - and great joys - of having pets. I would hate to
see that role negated by the inclusion of (unnecessary) explicit sexual detail
in people's anecdotes. And let's face it, the amount of detail in STella's tale
was *not* necessary to convey either the humor or the "essential cat"ness of
the situation *as it related to cats*. I'm not suggesting by any means that we
never mention The Act ( :-) ) in articles in this group, only that the amount
of detail in that part of the story not overwhelm or distract from the cat-
related point of it. As much as I laughed at STella's story, in the context of
rec.pets.cats I would have preferred an edited version. At the very least, it
could have been rot-13'd, as Brad does for rec.humor.funny's potentially
controversial items.
I will now don my asbestos suit and prepare to redirect flames ... :-)
--
Ruth Milner NRAO/VLA Socorro NM
Computing Division Head rmi...@zia.aoc.nrao.edu
Sally C Bemus
What the heck, it's a slow day ...
In article <keFnXIK00...@andrew.cmu.edu>, Shuman Lloyd Lee <sl...@andrew.cmu.edu> writes...
>Excerpts from netnews.rec.pets.cats: 22-Jun-92 Re: Jealous Boyfriends
>was .. by Susan But...@irscscm.UUC
[Susan's stuff deleted]
>
>Oh I get it. You can say whatever you want, as long as you take care
>that I don't hear it (if I didn't want to in the first place, of course).
>
>Golly gee, sounds like censorship to me.
Chill, Shuman. *None* of this is a matter of human or civil rights, but
rather propriety and good taste. Susan *assumes* intelligence, good will,
and compassion as `givens' in this forum. Those, unfortunately, are facts
*not* in evidence.
[and other stuff deleted]
Uh people? I think we are getting a bit off the subject here. Cats I think
it was. Right?
Karen Fegley
writes:
.. and Sabrina almost ALWAYS heads for the nearest rug.
(Likes the texture better, I guess, or maybe it doesn't
splash on her dainty little toes as much.)
Karen
Vicki Holzhauer
Unless they've just eaten a particularly smelly (i.e., fishy) can of
cat food, my girls have very pleasant breath.
Now, dogs ... that's another story. :-)
Julie A. Kangas
>In article <1992Jun22....@irscscm.UUCP> sbu...@irscscm.UUCP (Susan Butler) writes:
>>>>I've noticed other occasions where you add in stuff more appropriate to
>>>>alt.sex in your posts about cats. I've also noticed that those stories
>>>>aren't essential to get your point across.
>
>>>Who appointed you Editor, Style Council, and/or Purity Monitor?
>
>> And who appointed YOU!!! No one is saying she can't
>> say whatever she wants, even if it is in poor taste, she just
>> does not need to do it on THIS GROUP.
>
>First, let me say that I enjoyed STella's story very much, sexual detail and
>all.
>
>However, she made a comment in her response about the adult readership
>of this group. No-one has yet pointed out (that I have seen) that not all
>readers of this group *are* adults. I have seen postings from at least two
>children, and I expect there are others out there who either cannot post or
>do not yet have the confidence to do so.
>
>Not all parents are happy about their children, especially young ones, reading
>this kind of material. Whether or not we all agree with that is irrelevant.
>Should they have to read all the articles themselves first, to check for
>"suitability"? In a group like this one, I don't think so. If you're watching
>National Geographic with your kids, you don't expect to find zoom-in-on-the-
>genitals close-ups of sexual activities. Animals mating, yes, but no close-
>ups then either. No more should they have to anticipate it here.
>
Amoung adults I am against censorshiop of any form. However,
if I had children I would not allow them uncontrolled access to the net.
There are things far worse than Stella's (cute IMHO) story floating around
out there. Just as with TV, some channel's are ok, some aren't, and
some are ok some of the time. The same can be applied to magazines.
If you want to teach your kids about a topic, there are a lot better
places to go than the net. The net is an adult forum. The posters
should not be censored. Instead, parents should perform censorship
at home, at their door -- not outside of it.
Sorry if this is a bit disjointed, but I'm in a hurry.
Julie
#include "std_disclaimer.h"
Vicki Holzhauer
My girls get a bowl of dry food that stays out all the time. They get
one 7-oz can a day of soft food between them, half of it in the
morning, and half at night. With two cats scarfing up a plate
containing about 3-1/2 oz of wet cat food, I usually *never* have to
worry about whether it's gone bad ... :-)
Sue Price
>.. and Sabrina almost ALWAYS heads for the nearest rug.
>(Likes the texture better, I guess, or maybe it doesn't
>splash on her dainty little toes as much.)
>
>Karen
My cat too! Always goes out of her way to use a rug. Never a non-carpeted
floor which would be so much easier to clean. I wonder why. Then again,
maybe that is why. :-)
--
Sue Price
s...@hound.att.com
24421-todd
exactly what you're allergic to (I'm wondering if there's
something else besides the cats) and
what medication could be taken to reduce the symptoms
for such a visit. Barring medication to control
symptoms, which may or may not work, I think that any
friend who insists that you visit despite such an obvious
LIFE-THREATENING allergic reaction to cats and/or her
environment ought to maybe
reconsider what she's asking. However, isn't there some
compromise cat-free place where you can both drive to in
order to avoid forcing her to do all the driving? Seems
to me that her house is off-limits. Period.
I have a good friend who's allergic to cats, and a father
who was allergic to animal dander and therefore when I
adopted cats could not visit me at my home (since he
lived far away it was a moot point anyhow). It would never occur
to me to be mad at either of them for refusing to come to my home.
Maybe you ought to gather some educational materials
about allergic reactions and asthma and teach her what
possible consequences can be. Carolyn Todd
Ruth D Miller
puss-cat. SHe had badly crossed eyes and I'm not sure she could see
too well; she was rather bashful so I didn't get to stroke her, but I'd
never seen a cat like her.
She has blue eyes and a siamese-shaped head, but her points are pale
orange-yellow cream, and her sides are tinged pale yellow the way older
siamese get tinged chocolate. So was she a purebred cream siamese? I
never heard of such a point, at least officially. Or was she a 1/2
siamese crossed with a cream tabby? (The points are tabby, though pale.)
A truly gorgeous pussy--if they are not "official" they should be!
Ruth
Marty Ryba
All this childish discussion about rights, censorship, etc., just point
out to me the major failing of our modern American society, and of Usenet
in particular:
The question is not of rights, but of *civility*. The hallmark of a
civilized society is the attempt to account not only for the rights of our
neighbors, but their sensibilities as well. I personally found the stories
in question quite funny but less than perfectly tasteful or appropriate for
this newsgroup. Now, if we are to get back to the nice, friendly, helpful
tone that has characterized this group since its inception, let us all keep
in mind the guidlines for posting:
Think about it *twice*, then think again!!
Soapbox mode off....
--
Dr. Marty Ryba |
Group 101 - Radars 'R Us | Too young to be cynical,
MIT Lincoln Laboratory | too old to be optimistic.
ry...@ll.mit.edu |
James M Hoskins
es:
> The question is not of rights, but of *civility*. The hallmark of a...
Right, I agree. And also one of understanding *context*.
Now, I am interested in cats falling from high places. When I lived in San
Francisco the temperate climate there meant that apartment buildings--certainly
those for poor art students like me--did not have screens. I lived in a second
floor studio apartment facing the street, above a bar.
One evening the cat Eddy was not making his presence known as usual. I started
to search everywhere for him. I even opened and looked in drawers, not
thinking that he could have fallen out the window. Eventually, I went down
to the street. There he was. Shaking and huddled in a corner. There were
many people walking by him on the busy street, apparently people had ignored
and passed him by (I'm glad they did). I took Eddy in my arms and noticed he
had an abrasion on his nose. For the next few hours back in the apartment he
was withdrawn, perhaps in shock, maybe embarrassed. Talk about a bonding
experience with your cat. Two hours later he was back to his old self.
Carla Oexmann
>In article <11najp...@early-bird.think.com> fu...@think.com (Debbie Fuhry) writes:
>>I'd like to request that you consider leaving them out for those of us who
>>like posting stuff like that, I'm sure the readers of that newsgroup would
>>appreciate hearing your stories in a way that many r.p.c. readers do not.
>
> interesting to read, and of considerable wit. I don't mind seeing
> her postings here, and really hate the thought of restricting the
> content to satisfy a few people who refuse to learn the value of
> a kill file. Sex is a part of life, and most often it isn't s*x.
I agree with Wayne : I've read STella's articles in many newsgroups, and
I can't think of one I haven't enjoyed. She's a good writer. If you
can't handle the bawdy language, learn to use a kill file ! Don't
deprive the rest of us of some good reading.
Ritual disclaimer : My opinion and mine alone ! Convex, as best I can tell,
doesn't have opinions, being a corporate entity...
Carla Oexmann {allegra, sun, harvard, uiucdcs, ctvax}!convex!oexmann
Convex Computer Corp. 3000 Waterview Parkway P.O. Box 833851 Richardson, TX
p.s. : STella, if I'm ever in your neck of the woods, could I buy you
lunch ?
Charles Poirier
>>>I've noticed other occasions where you add in stuff more appropriate to
>>Who appointed you Editor, Style Council, and/or Purity Monitor?
> And who appointed YOU!!!
Since you ask, I was appointed to the job of defending freedom by the
Founding Fathers, as were all Americans. Supposedly.
If you can't detect the difference between telling people to edit themselves,
and telling people to STOP telling people to edit themselves, then I'm
afraid we are at an impasse. Your act is pro-censorship, mine is pro-freedom.
> What some people won't come up
> with in the name of censorship. No one is saying she can't
> say whatever she wants, even if it is in poor taste, she just
> does not need to do it on THIS GROUP.
"Need" indeed. As if it were a clinical perversion to "do it" at all.
This group is the one I read. If you want to purify what YOU see, fire
up the old kill file. You seem to want cat stories that have nothing in
them but cats. Sorry, but cats exist in the real world. The ways in which
cats get entangled in the workings of man are inextricably entwined in
the workings of cats. Bedroom and all.
> She could have told
> the same story without all the "details" thrown in and it would
> have been a MUCH better story. I doubt that Debbie and I are
> alone in this feeling, either.
It is irrelevant whether you were alone. You and three or four friends,
or even three or four hundred friends, do not constitute an empowered
purity committee. I doubt that *I* am alone in my opinion, too, but I don't
try to lean on a "majority rules" crutch. On the contrary, what makes
Usenet a great place to hang out is its vigorous diversity.
You say the story would have been better without the ribald bits. Ok, for
your reading pleasure, here it is. "My cat jumped on a person's backside
and caused it to bleed." (Can I say "backside" without offending someone?)
Boy, that was a rousing good story. Obscene insult deleted! I said it
once before, and it bears repeating:
You are not qualified to edit other people's stories!
ESPECIALLY the ones that evoke emotional reactions (eg. laughter,
embarassment).
I said:
>>The first responsibility of freedom is tolerance.
> The first responsibility of freedom is caring about the
> feelings of other people.
As long as "other people" means "you"? If everyone was deathly afraid of
offending ANYONE, NOTHING would be said. Stop talking about cats killing
bunnies, it's gross and offensive to bunny-lovers. Stop talking about
neutering, someone might mention the names of some nasty private parts.
Stop talking about cats licking people's noses, it constitutes hot kitty
sex and some people probably *get off* on it. Don't mention how, when you
rub your tom cat real good, he just has to stop to lick something, I'm
not sure what. Got to be taboo, though. Cats just don't belong in the
bedroom in the first place. Oh jeez, dosing cats with catnip, better farm
that out to alt.drugs. Recipes for cat food, yuck, you don't need to put
THAT here, use rec.cooks where it belongs. Cat doors with magnets are too
technical, talk about that over in sci.physics.
Don't dare me to go on. I am a reasonably caring person, but I could make
up stupid irrational sensitivities for hours and not hit a single one that
doesn't apply to at least a couple of jerks on the net. Open the door for
one class of jerk, and all of them are going to demand equal treatment.
No, I like my maxim better. If you are not willing to tolerate differences,
there will be no differences. Everyone being exactly alike is NOT freedom!
Please read this again, since it made no impression the first time around:
>>Everybody thinks that limiting freedom of speech is a great idea, as long
>>as *they* get to do the limiting.
Cheers,
Charles Poirier
Wayne Hughes
It looks like this is going to be a potent thread for awhile. If
you don't like it, set your kill file for it.
Several people have brought up issues or guidelines involved with
questionable posts. I'm going to skip the constitutionality and
censorship aspects, since it appears that there is a very fluid
range of feeling about where those ideas become involved.
**************************************************************************
Julie and Ruth discuss the aspect of minors reading posts of questionable
content. I have deleted portions of both texts:
In article <1992Jun23.1...@aero.org> kan...@aero.org (Julie A. Kangas) writes:
>In article <1992Jun23....@zia.aoc.nrao.edu> rmi...@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Ruth Milner) writes:
>>No-one has yet pointed out (that I have seen) that not all
>>readers of this group *are* adults. I have seen postings from at least two
>>children, and I expect there are others out there who either cannot post or
>>do not yet have the confidence to do so.
>Amoung adults I am against censorshiop of any form. However,
>if I had children I would not allow them uncontrolled access to the net.
>There are things far worse than Stella's (cute IMHO) story floating around
>out there. Just as with TV, some channel's are ok, some aren't, and
>some are ok some of the time. The same can be applied to magazines.
>If you want to teach your kids about a topic, there are a lot better
>places to go than the net. The net is an adult forum. The posters
>should not be censored. Instead, parents should perform censorship
>at home, at their door -- not outside of it.
And I have to agree with Julie. Other people make the decision to
have kids, *within reason* I will not let my life be dictated by
other people's kids. It is up to the parents to control their
kids' access to questionable things; it is not up to me to provide
their kids with an environment the parents find acceptable. And
for Debbie or Susan: it is not up to me to determine what *you*
find acceptable.
As will be discussed below, *anything* can
be construed as objectionable by *someone*. My only choice is
to write what I wish within the limits I set for myself, and live
with the consequences.
**********************************************************************
Then Marty (ry...@ll.mit.edu (Marty Ryba)) in a subsequent article,
brings up the issue of civility:
< The question is not of rights, but of *civility*. The hallmark of a
<civilized society is the attempt to account not only for the rights of our
<neighbors, but their sensibilities as well. I personally found the stories
<in question quite funny but less than perfectly tasteful or appropriate for
<this newsgroup. Now, if we are to get back to the nice, friendly, helpful
<tone that has characterized this group since its inception, let us all keep
<in mind the guidlines for posting:
< Think about it *twice*, then think again!!
and I find myself agreeing in principle, but having to point out again
that it doesn't matter whether I think once, twice, or a hundred times
*someone* is likely to be offended by *something* I say, simply
by virtue of the fact that I don't think like Debbie or Susan does.
Marty's (and Usenet's) advice is no sure fire thing. Again I must
set my own limits and live with what I write, as it is impractical
to do otherwise.
***********************************************************************
And finally, Charles Poirier (poi...@ellerbe.rtp.dg.com)
made the point that I have concluded is the most important one
in response to all the commentary in this thread, just because
it is the only one that addresses the impracticality of writing
to avoid offense. It's worth reproducing in full:
<As long as "other people" means "you"? If everyone was deathly afraid of
<offending ANYONE, NOTHING would be said. Stop talking about cats killing
<bunnies, it's gross and offensive to bunny-lovers. Stop talking about
<neutering, someone might mention the names of some nasty private parts.
<Stop talking about cats licking people's noses, it constitutes hot kitty
<sex and some people probably *get off* on it. Don't mention how, when you
<rub your tom cat real good, he just has to stop to lick something, I'm
<not sure what. Got to be taboo, though. Cats just don't belong in the
<bedroom in the first place. Oh jeez, dosing cats with catnip, better farm
<that out to alt.drugs. Recipes for cat food, yuck, you don't need to put
<THAT here, use rec.cooks where it belongs. Cat doors with magnets are too
<technical, talk about that over in sci.physics.
<Don't dare me to go on. I am a reasonably caring person, but I could make
<up stupid irrational sensitivities for hours and not hit a single one that
<doesn't apply to at least a couple of jerks on the net. Open the door for
<one class of jerk, and all of them are going to demand equal treatment.
So as far as I am concerned, I will write what I wish, and if it
offends Debbie and Susan, then so be it. They may use a kill file,
or not, as they wish. It is unlikely that I will honor their
objections.
Wayne
Shuman Lloyd Lee
was .. by Stephen Dennison@lims02.
>In article <keFnXIK00...@andrew.cmu.edu>, Shuman Lloyd Lee <sl22+@andrew
>.cmu.edu> writes...
>>Excerpts from netnews.rec.pets.cats: 22-Jun-92 Re: Jealous Boyfriends
>>was .. by Susan But...@irscscm.UUC
>
>[Susan's stuff deleted]
>>
>>Oh I get it. You can say whatever you want, as long as you take care
>>that I don't hear it (if I didn't want to in the first place, of course).
>>
>>Golly gee, sounds like censorship to me.
>
>Chill, Shuman. *None* of this is a matter of human or civil rights, but
>rather propriety and good taste. Susan *assumes* intelligence, good will,
>and compassion as `givens' in this forum. Those, unfortunately, are facts
>*not* in evidence.
Well, first you have to thread your way through X excerpting Y saying
that Z says Q. Okay, got that? Now, let's all chill, Stephen. You
know, I didn't find anything offensive about STella's post. Yes, it was
racy, but I don't think of that as synonymous with offensive. I could
think of many ways to retell the story and make it truly offensive.
Now, if you want to argue for the greatest common denominator, then that
is where the censorship argument comes in. Virtually everything is
offensive to SOMEBODY. So what are we to do? Your appeal with phrases
such as "propriety" and "good taste" is just circular reasoning to me.
Oh well. I've had enough of this thread. Let's talk about cats.
Julie A. Kangas
>out to me the major failing of our modern American society, and of Usenet
>in particular:
>
> The question is not of rights, but of *civility*. The hallmark of a
>civilized society is the attempt to account not only for the rights of our
>neighbors, but their sensibilities as well. I personally found the stories
>in question quite funny but less than perfectly tasteful or appropriate for
>this newsgroup. Now, if we are to get back to the nice, friendly, helpful
>tone that has characterized this group since its inception, let us all keep
>in mind the guidlines for posting:
>
> Think about it *twice*, then think again!!
>
>Soapbox mode off....
>
SOAPBOX
Fine. I like the idea of being civil. But tell me -- who decides what
is "civilized" behavior? European TV is baudier than US TV. Are the
Europeans uncivilized because they show more sex on their TV than
we do? Would you get highly insulted if you were in Europe and
saw such a show, or would you chalk it up to a different culture?
Accounting for the sensibilities of everyone does not and should
not mean totally proscribing yourself in what you say and do.
Remember, anything you say can and probably will be insulting
to someone. The only thing to do is to avoid *purposely*
insulting someone (that's only being civilized:) and I hardly
think STella's story was meant to insult someone or hurt their
sensibilities. If it did, well that happens and is a part of
being an adult.
Oh, and discussing rights and freedoms is hardly childish. Indeed,
I think all adults should be concerned about these things. If
they were I think we would have better government.
XOBPAOS
Julie
#include "std_disclaimer.h"
Jim Graham
> Brave Sir Kitten, unhampered by fear of these audacious eggs, almost
> the size of his own tiny and somewhat fuzzier body, leaped and
> pounced. Viciously.
[in screeching voice, and sounding kinda like someone who got the wind
knocked out of them....] owww...
--
Standard disclaimer....Ever since my cat learned to type, there's no telling
whose thoughts these really are.... 73 DE N5IAL (/9)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
INTERNET: j...@n5ial.chi.il.us | gr...@gagme.chi.il.us | j.gr...@ieee.org
UUCP: gagme!n5ial!j...@clout.chi.il.us
AMATEUR RADIO: n5ial@n9hsi (Chicago.IL.US.Earth)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anne J.R. Nield
>related point of it. As much as I laughed at STella's story, in the context of
>rec.pets.cats I would have preferred an edited version. At the very least, it
>could have been rot-13'd, as Brad does for rec.humor.funny's potentially
>controversial items.
Well, my $.02 worth after reading this for a while. Personally, I think
the story worked very well to accomplish its ends (no pun intended) which
would appear to be more "attention getting" for the author than the
sharing of information on cat behavior. I'm with Ruth on this one.
Anne
Stephen Dennison
>In article <1992Jun19.2...@rigel.econ.uga.edu> hug...@dogwood.botany.uga.edu (Wayne Hughes) writes:
>>In article <11najp...@early-bird.think.com> fu...@think.com (Debbie Fuhry) writes:
>>>I'd like to request that you consider leaving them out for those of us who
>>>don't read alt.sex, and who don't *want* to read alt.sex. If you really
>>>like posting stuff like that, I'm sure the readers of that newsgroup would
>>>appreciate hearing your stories in a way that many r.p.c. readers do not.
>>
>> I've noticed STella's postings on other newsgroups also. I find them
>> interesting to read, and of considerable wit. I don't mind seeing
>> her postings here, and really hate the thought of restricting the
>> content to satisfy a few people who refuse to learn the value of
>> a kill file. Sex is a part of life, and most often it isn't s*x.
Serial murder, colostomies, and suppositories are *also* a fact of life for
a large number of people. I really wouldn't look to rec.pets.cats for
treatment of these subjects `in detail', even if the story is about a cat
that ripped open a colostmy bag and all the hi-jinks and fun that followed.
If this was the *intent* of Usenet, there would be just *one* newsgroup
called net.everything.
>
>I agree with Wayne : I've read STella's articles in many newsgroups, and
>I can't think of one I haven't enjoyed. She's a good writer. If you
>can't handle the bawdy language, learn to use a kill file ! Don't
>deprive the rest of us of some good reading.
So, I guess I can extract from this statement that you feel that instead of
*you* looking around to appropriate newsgroups to find STella's material,
rather it should be posted to whatever newsgroup that *might* find a key
word or two relavent and then the onus of protecting oneself from
potentially offensive material falls on the rest of the people reading the
group. Sounds like a classic case of responsibility deflection to me.
To quote Mr. Spock "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or
the one."
To quote *Dr.* Spock ..."Change that baby, will ya ?? She's wet !" :-)
Opinions, please ... here's mine.
*I* think of Usenet the same way as I think of a social gathering of *any*
sort, say the `company picnic'. You never know *who* is going to be around or
what age group you are telling your `stories' to in both of these
situations, so you choose your words and topics carefully. Would STella
walk up to a gathering of strangers at her `company picnic', adults and
children alike, and tell her story ? Given the level of intelligence her
literary style indicates, I doubt it. The anonimity of this communication
medium (Usenet) tends to make one drop social conventions that one wouldn't
*think* of dropping in face-to-face encounters. In some newsgroups, this is an
essential facet of communicating scary, taboo, or embarassing material. In
rec.pets.cats it is *not* and a concious effort *should* be made to
maintain those social conventions. We established them for a reason in the
first place, didn't we ?
EUGINA M. NOVAK
yd Lee) writes:
>Excerpts from netnews.rec.pets.cats: 23-Jun-92 Re: Jealous Boyfriends
>that Z says Q. Okay, got that? Now, let's all chill, Stephen. You
>know, I didn't find anything offensive about STella's post. Yes, it was
>racy, but I don't think of that as synonymous with offensive. I could
>think of many ways to retell the story and make it truly offensive.
>Now, if you want to argue for the greatest common denominator, then that
>is where the censorship argument comes in. Virtually everything is
>offensive to SOMEBODY. So what are we to do? Your appeal with phrases
>such as "propriety" and "good taste" is just circular reasoning to me.
>
>Oh well. I've had enough of this thread. Let's talk about cats.
>
repetetive, boring, and inconsequential. Not to mention silly and pointless.
May we please return to discussing cats? Thanks.
--Gina Novak
(en...@lehigh.edu)
Reverend Dave
>In article <1992Jun23.2...@news.eng.convex.com>, oex...@convex.com (Carla Oexmann) writes...
>>In article <1992Jun19.2...@rigel.econ.uga.edu> hug...@dogwood.botany.uga.edu (Wayne Hughes) writes:
>>>In article <11najp...@early-bird.think.com> fu...@think.com (Debbie Fuhry) writes:
Perhaps the original post that started this thread had something to do
with this newsgroup, but all this talk about censorship does not. This
group is about cats. If it means that much to you, I beleive there is a
group called alt.censorship or something where all these old rehashed
arguments pro/con censorship can be discussed. 'Nuff said.
--
The Reverend David Deutsch of Arizona | "I am not insensitive. I am 'Sympathy deu...@caslon.cs.arizona.edu | Challenged'. "
| -Joseph Sobran -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The views of the sender DO reflect those of the University of Arizona... i.e. The sender is the university's spokesman.
Jenny Ballmann
wet cat food out. This is a question of interest to many rec.
pets.cats readers and is absolutely germane to cats. But was
it really necessary to include the horrible details about what
was found in the cat food after the roomates' neglect? I was
eating spaghetti for lunch at the time and hurled all over my
keyboard, seriously. Surely people can post informative articles
without disgusting details like this. If I wanted to read about
maggots in cat food, I'd read alt.tasteless. Don't get me
started on hairballs, bathroom functions, abcesses, or other
totally gratuitous details of otherwise cat-relevant posts.
Jenny
--
"has anyone ever *seen* michael jackson and diana ross in the same room?"
-L. Potler
Vicki Holzhauer
>
>Oh well. I've had enough of this thread. Let's talk about cats.
You've got *my* vote!
Jack Campin
[ on children reading Usenet ]
> Not all parents are happy about their children, especially young ones,
> reading this kind of material. Whether or not we all agree with that is
> irrelevant. Should they have to read all the articles themselves first,
> to check for "suitability"? In a group like this one, I don't think so.
> If you're watching National Geographic with your kids, you don't expect
> to find zoom-in-on-the-genitals close-ups of sexual activities.
If all you'll let your kids look at is at the National Geographic level of
blandness, just construct a kill file for them with entries like
/*STella*/h:=:j
/*fuck*/h:=:j
and so on, and don't give them the privileges to monkey with it... you can
add one that kills all messages from people with Jewish surnames or all
messages from outside Kansas if you like. Just look at the manual.
Our kitten Velocette used to think the Beast with Two Backs was a
fairground rodeo ride. This being Scotland, it was usually under a duvet,
so her claws weren't a problem, but it was a disconcerting sensation to
feel little paws grabbing at whatever felt to her like the saddle at the
time. I could swear those little squeaks said something like YEEE-HAH!
RIDE 'EM, COWBOY!!
--
-- Jack Campin room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: ja...@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet BITNET: via UKACRL UUCP: ja...@glasgow.uucp
Erica Nielsen
some other newsgroup?????
I could have sworn we were supposed to be talking about cats here.
Thanks.
Erica!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ruth Milner
>>
>>However, she made a comment in her response about the adult readership
>>of this group. No-one has yet pointed out (that I have seen) that not all
>>readers of this group *are* adults. I have seen postings from at least two
>>children, and I expect there are others out there who either cannot post or
>>do not yet have the confidence to do so.
>
>if I had children I would not allow them uncontrolled access to the net.
>places to go than the net. The net is an adult forum.
Given the subject matter of most groups on the net, I would generally agree
with this statement. But I think there are, or ought to be, exceptions.
If you want to teach your child responsible pet ownership, obviously the first
and best way is to show them by example and personal experience at home. But
to widen their horizons and expose them to other people's views and experience,
where else than in a forum like rec.pets.cats could you provide your children
with exposure to so many people with so many individual cats, and all the
attendant laughter, tribulations, grief and joy? Where else could the child
learn so much, in such a direct manner, about so many different things: train-
ing, health issues, play, dealing with the death of a beloved pet, rescuing
strays, and so on?
The net is an irreplaceable resource in the breadth and depth of its coverage
of thousands of subject areas. I would really hate to see children who are
eager to learn about non-sexual subjects, like caring for their pets, excluded
from that resource simply because people (and I'm not singling out STella) get
carried away with sexual detail which is not particularly relevant to the
topic. Of course sex is a part of everyday life. Of course cats do funny
things when faced with humans making love, and I enjoy reading about them. But
(speaking only for myself, naturally :-) ) sex is not a part of absolutely
everything I do 24 hours a day :-) . I don't see why it needs to appear in
such detail in this group when there are, in those 2000 or so other Usenet
groups out there - an amazing number of which are dedicated to sex-related
subjects :-) - more appropriate places for that detail to go, and where it
would be more generally appreciated to boot.
Please note, I am not saying the word should never be mentioned on this group.
It would be sad if it did. I am only suggesting that explicit detail isn't
generally needed, and that its inclusion here has the potential to cause the
loss of some of our readers who stand to benefit most from our discussions.
That said, if I had children, I would want them to learn from the net. If I had
to vet everything first, I would. But clearly both I and my children would be
better off if I didn't have to do that.
Kaye Boatwright
>Lizzie used to bring home her catch so that she could
>eat it in peace--on the foot of my bed. Have you
>ever woken up to find blood and bird feathers in the bed?
>Ick!
>--
>
Oh baby, the kitty I used to live with, brought me mousie/birdie presents and
tucked them away for further use - under the bedside rug. What a joy to step
down on the rug at 5.30 am and hear/feel the crunch of tiny bones, and the
smoosch of dead things. Now I am owned by three Siamese - one baby is a
mighty hunter kitty. When she started hunting (we just went rural) she hadn't
learned the knack of killing. I was awakened at 6.00 am by the bird trying to
fly out the window of my bedroom, with it's behind nearly bit completely off.
I think the only thing worse than stepping on these little presents is having
to get up and do the killing. Tych, the mighty hunter, now brings everything
into the house and if it's already dead it goes behind couch, and if its
alive, it goes into the couch. She's getting pretty good about coming back
when told to take it outside and kill it please.
kaye
Deb Schwartz
>
>As long as we're volunteering humble opinions here, I thought the story
>about the cat dive-bombing the poor guy's buns was (a) hilarious,
>(b) totally appropriate to the topic of the safety of cats on the bed,
>and (c) quintessential Cat. Leave it in.
>
I agree with Charles. Keep those entertaining stories coming, STella!
(BTW, I read the story to KC and Oreo, who can't wait to try it out on
Keith.)
--
Debbie Schwartz // d...@voodoo.boeing.com // or uunet!bcstec!voodoo!das
Deb Schwartz
>>
>>I've had cats since I was 3 years old. Far longer than I've had men
>>in my life. One must establish priorities! :-)
>
Yes! I agree with Vicki. Anyone I go out with must at least like cats, if not
be a total cat freak like me. I won't even date people who don't like cats.
I got both my cats 'used' (I said that just to annoy them) and they'd both been
trained to stay off the bed. I changed that fast!
BTW, my boyfriend's household has 3 indoor cats, yet they get fleas every
summer. We figure the people are giving the cats fleas!
Deanna Bergstrom
My Snagglepuss was the most gorgeous kitty in existence (IMHO, of
course :-)! He was a beautiful sleek red-point with crossed blue
eyes and a kink in his tail...only "pet-quality" but oh what a
pet he was.
The light points like red point sometimes have a tabby appearance,
especially on the tail which can be ringed in appearance.
Poor ol' Nags was apparently stolen from me at the tender age of 3
when I lived in south Lake Tahoe. It broke my heart :-(
Deanna
S. Mudgett aka little gator
> She could have told
> the same story without all the "details" thrown in and it would
> have been a MUCH better story.
ok, here's My Pal Stella(tm)'s story minus details:
"i was in bed with someone when my cat did something."
i think it was a better story the way she told it.
--
-- little gator aka S. Mudgett email: s...@harvee.uucp
-- friend of a gator is a friend of mine
Ailsa N.T. Murphy
[great story deleted]
now THAT was funny! i nearly died... and my housemate walked *very*
*carefully* back to his terminal after reading over my shoulder. >B)
-ailsa
ailsa%ail...@wang.com or io8...@maine.maine.edu
are you on fire what will replace the rent with the stars above,
from the years, replace the need with love,
what will you give replace the anger with the tide,
for your kid fears? replace the ones, the ones, the ones that you love?
Karen Fegley
> STe...@thelema.uucp (STella) writes:
>
> [great story deleted]
>
> now THAT was funny! i nearly died... and my housemate walked *very*
> *carefully* back to his terminal after reading over my shoulder. >B)
>
> -ailsa
Actually, over the years, I've heard the story that Stella related
(with minor variations) any number of times. I don't have any
objection to its being posted here (I've read far racier stuff
in classic literature) but this particular story is getting rather
stale and I would prefer to read something original. My guess is
that this particular story is apocryphal and probably ought to be
cross-posted to alt.folklore.urban or somesuch).
Karen
Horatio Gadsplatt III
>>
>Oh baby, the kitty I used to live with, brought me mousie/birdie presents and
>tucked them away for further use - under the bedside rug. What a joy to step
>down on the rug at 5.30 am and hear/feel the crunch of tiny bones, and the
>smoosch of dead things. Now I am owned by three Siamese - one baby is a
Speaking of Siamese cats, wehave a little kitty (well, she's a year
old now I guess) who is half Siamese, and half striped domestic short hair.
She basically looks like a siamese cat with cool hair.
This thing is the LEAST independant cat I have ever seen in my life.
Every morning last year at school, either my girlfriend or I would be woken up
with massive face lickings because she wanted to play. She would also nudge
at the top of our blankets to try and quirm her way in, so she could sleep
as close to use as possible to get more heat.
Now that I am not with her for 4 months, my cat must be content with my
girlfriends comapny, and that of the little kitten her parents have...
--
st...@cs.mcgill.ca McGill University C program run. Run
Marc Wandschneider Montreal, CANADA Program run! PLEASE!
Every Man's Dream:
"Gasp! But it's SO big!!!"
Horatio Gadsplatt III
I have always wondered why people bother naming cats. Every single
cat I have ever owned (about 6 I guess since I was a child) has never even
responded to it's name, as much as my voice period.
Our current kitten is named Oink, but I usually just call for Fur-
Brains, Knob, or Cutie the Kitty. Sometimes she'll look over and pretened
she's interested, and other times she'll just continue sleeping.
However, when I'm busy, THAT's when she decides she's in a friendly
mood, and would REALLY like to play.
Cindy Newell
In article <35r...@lynx.unm.edu> Jenny Ballmann writes:
>I have to complain about the recent story on how long to leave
>wet cat food out.
Jenny, that was me and I am sorry, that was pretty insensitive
and I probably shouldn't have gone into details, although I
didn't really think that what I wrote was that bad. I guess
I am not bothered as much by what I read as compared to what
I see! I will try to remeber this in the future if there is
something gross to be said!
> Don't get me
>started on hairballs, bathroom functions, abcesses, or other
>totally gratuitous details of otherwise cat-relevant posts.
As to your last statement. These are all health related items
and in my case I have found statements about what to look for
when you suspect you pet has worms, how to fix the hairball
problem, and other strange bodily functions are quite appropriate!
Where would the human race be today if doctors hadn't developed
some sort of forum and worked together to discuss health problems,
symptoms, cures, etc? Many of us probably wouldn't be here if
some doctor hadn't discussed some new idea he had concerning
symptoms or a new treatment!
Plus, when someone posts about something odd that is wrong
with their pet (ie diaherra) they are looking for solutions
probably a little sympathy as well. At least, that is the
case with me.
Just my $0.02.
>Jenny
Cindy
--
Cindy Newell - Usual disclaimers apply
Martin Marietta Astronautics Group
sno...@spacemanspiff.den.mmc.com (if that doesn't work try)
cne...@azum.den.mmc.com
schl...@uimrl7.mrl.uiuc.edu
(Horatio Gadsplatt III) writes:
I have always wondered why people bother naming cats. Every single
|> cat I have ever owned (about 6 I guess since I was a child) has never
|> even
|> responded to it's name, as much as my voice period.
|>
|> Our current kitten is named Oink, but I usually just call for Fur-
|> Brains, Knob, or Cutie the Kitty. Sometimes she'll look over and
|> pretened
|> she's interested, and other times she'll just continue sleeping.
That's funny. My kitties Dante and Pixel ALWAYS respond to their names.
I can be sitting downstairs with the TV on and just say in a normal voice
"Dante" and he will come running from upstairs within seconds. Pixel is
not as good at responding, but she will, given time. If we are all (cats, dog,
hubby, and myself) sitting downstairs I can say "Pixel" and she'll look
at me. If I say "Dante" he comes over and sits at my feet. The dog, on the
other hand will look at you and listen to you, but she is awfully slow about
coming.
Yes, i will admit that at first my kitties were motivated by food. But now
they know their names and they don't HAVE to get treats anymore..:) :)
Kay Schlumpf
Judy Bettinger
>I've had cats since I was 3 years old. Far longer than I've had men
>in my life. One must establish priorities! :-)
Deb Schwartz writes:
>I agree with Vicki. Anyone I go out with must at least like cats, if not
>be a total cat freak like me. I won't even date people who don't like cats.
Yup, good filter. I have a theory that people who don't like cats
have weak egos.
My husband was already owned by Bast when we started dating, which
was the one of the first ways I knew that we were compatible. (I
had my own brood of felines too, of course).
Of course, then I had to be terribly diplomatic so as not to offend
her, since she was always jealous of the women in his life. :-)
--
Judy Bettinger (ju...@evolving.com) < |/
Evolving Systems, Inc. :o<)
Denver, Colorado < |\
Michael Taranto
there is a specific voice tone accompanied with the name. When I speak
to my cats it is always in the same tone so that they know I am speaking
to them at that moment. IMHO, I tend to find that one syllable names
tend to work the best, that way the cat doesn't get confused with other
words. However there are always exceptions. Eye contact is another good
way to let the cat know that you are speaking directly to it, however I
think we all know that to the cat this has no effect ("Who are you to be
telling me what I can and cannot do?!)
Michael Taranto
Christina L. Lansford
>Yup, good filter. I have a theory that people who don't like cats
>have weak egos.
>
>My husband was already owned by Bast when we started dating, which
>was the one of the first ways I knew that we were compatible. (I
>had my own brood of felines too, of course).
>
>Of course, then I had to be terribly diplomatic so as not to offend
>her, since she was always jealous of the women in his life. :-)
>
>--
>Judy Bettinger (ju...@evolving.com) < |/
>Evolving Systems, Inc. :o<)
>Denver, Colorado < |\
I knew Joe was right for me when I met his pseudo-SiaMouth, Violet.
Not only did he think of her before me (after all, she's been with him
longer than I have), he let her sleep on the bed, fed her on the kitchen
counter, and let her get on the kitchen table while he was reading the
newspaper.
-Christina L. Lansford [the poster]
Joe [the Hubby]
Violet [the pseudo-SiaMouth]
Pete [the "Baby Mountain Lion"]
Inky [a really cute kitty, but weird]
kl...@iscsvax.uni.edu
> cat I have ever owned (about 6 I guess since I was a child) has never even
> responded to it's name, as much as my voice period.
>
> Our current kitten is named Oink, but I usually just call for Fur-
> Brains, Knob, or Cutie the Kitty. Sometimes she'll look over and pretened
> she's interested, and other times she'll just continue sleeping.
Strange. All my cats know the difference between "Catkin! Get down!"
and "DumDum! get down!" etc...
I've heard cats respond better to names with K or G or P initial sounds,
but I've certainly never seen evidence to confirm the notion.
Kay Klier Biology Dept UNI
Paul Silver
1 3/4 year old black and white short-haired female, and now Chan,
the 2 2/3 year old brown and white medium-haired female. I can't
wait until they learn to get along.
Chan, first of all, is an Ice Cat. She does not like people to pick
her up or even get near her. She runs away if people get too close.
She hides all day (always has her whole life) and comes out in the
evening.
At first, when Chan would come out at night, the two cats would sit
and stare at each other, at least when Fugazi wouldn't run and hide
under the bed. Then, when Chan would start getting too close, Fugazi
would start hissing and growling. Chan backs off when Fugazi hisses
at her.
Chan hides in the laundry room, where the litter box has always lived.
I got a larger covered litter box at the same time as I got Chan,
and Fugazi won't use it. She's too scared to go into the laundry
room, because that's where "that other cat" is. So she started to
use my shower stall in which to urinate. When I cleaned that up and
yelled at her, she later used the carpet in the living room. I
scolded her again, and cleaned it up. She went back to the shower
stall. So I gave in and set up her old litter box in the bathroom.
Chan, in an apparent bid for dominance, decided to forego using her
litter box, and used Fugazi's. Sheesh, what an obnoxious cat!
At least Fugazi is still using it instead of the shower or the carpet!
Finally, last night, I got Fugazi to come into the bedroom just before
bedtime to pay a little bit, but Chan crept down the hallway, and
as soon as she was close enough and Fugazi was near enough to the
bedroom door, Chan started chasing her all over the place! I know
Chan used to play with her kitty-roommate at her former home in this
way, but I tend to think it's less play and more of a dominance thing.
Interesting notes: Chan seems to be quite laid back about Fugazi,
while Fugazi is terrified of Chan, probably because Chan is from a
2 cat household, but Fugazi hasn't seen another cat since she was
9 weeks old when I brought her home.
Chan seems to want dominance -- note the chasing and the using of
Fugazi's litter box -- but she backs away when Fugazi hisses/growls
at her.
It will be interesting to see which cat finally comes out on top in
the bid for dominance.
--
"Life is inhuman when you are too old to be young." -Bill Nelson
--------------------------------------------------------------------
/ Paul Silver / Dischord Records /
/ pa...@tellabs.com / putting the D.C. in harDCore /
--------------------------------------------------------------------
All opinions expressed are strictly my own, unless I stole them.
Robyn E. Williamson
Sort of a related topic...
Yesterday I called my apartment to see if my roommate was still there.
When the answering machine picked up, I pushed the "room monitor"
code (lets you listen to what's happening in the room). Then I thought,
"I wonder if the kitties can hear me?" So I made the kiss-kiss-kiss
noise I always make when I call them, and after a couple of times, I
heard, "Prrraannhh? Prrraannh?" They knew their mommy's voice...cute
kitties.
Robyn
IEE news user
>>I've had cats since I was 3 years old. Far longer than I've had men
>>in my life. One must establish priorities! :-)
>
>Deb Schwartz writes:
>>I agree with Vicki. Anyone I go out with must at least like cats, if not
>>be a total cat freak like me. I won't even date people who don't like cats.
>
>Yup, good filter. I have a theory that people who don't like cats
>have weak egos.
>
Well, I disagree with this theory; in fact, I think it is quite the opposite.
I think people with big (ie. strong) egos tend to not like cats. IMO, it has
to do with the control/dominance feature of many strong egos. To be a
cat lover you have to accept the cat's independence, intelligence, and
ability to 'control' you! Not something that people with strong egos tend
to admire.
However, I think that cat lovers tend to be confident people, rather than
egotistical. They are confident of a cat's love, despite its independence
and sometimes aloofness.
So much for Psychoanalysis 101. Just my opinion.
Martha H. Sherman
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I speak only for myself, and sometimes I even wonder about that...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lori Cole
two-stroke motor and liked to be stroked as well. Since said feline has
gone to kitty-heaven, the name is up for grabs.
Lori
Jenny Ballmann
>
>In article <35r...@lynx.unm.edu> Jenny Ballmann writes:
>
>>I have to complain about the recent story on how long to leave
>>wet cat food out.
>
>Jenny, that was me and I am sorry, that was pretty insensitive
>and I probably shouldn't have gone into details, although I
>didn't really think that what I wrote was that bad. I guess
>I am not bothered as much by what I read as compared to what
>I see! I will try to remeber this in the future if there is
>something gross to be said!
>
to express my annoyance with the "purity wars" by posting a
sarcastic message on how everyone's offended by something.
IMHO, cats are pretty gross animals and this group
would be boring and virtually content-free if everything
potentially offensive was self-censored out.
Jenny
--
Same reply applies to every other reply to my reply. -M. McIrvin
Gerry Allwein
cats for different reasons. My kitty gets to me by being a curious combination
of dependent yet independent. Her space is hers and she chooses when and where
to share it. Yet she's completely dependent for food, shelter, affection, etc.
Most women I meet tend not to like cats for reasons I'd rather not theorize
about. I must be meeting the wrong crowd....
Gerry
Stephen Dennison
In article <722...@harvee.UUCP>, s...@harvee.UUCP (S. Mudgett aka little gator) writes...
>somebody writes:
>
>> She could have told
Part 1 >> the same story without all the "details" thrown in
Part 2 >> and it would have been a MUCH better story.
I agree with part 1, but not *necessarily* part 2. However ...
>ok, here's My Pal Stella(tm)'s story minus details:
>
>
>"i was in bed with someone when my cat did something."
>
>i think it was a better story the way she told it.
Me too, but I *think* you generalized a little too much.
How about ...
"A male friend and I were `in the act' so to speak when suddenly his
`performance' seemed to improve. This performance improvement was
accompanied by a widening of the eyes and a pained expression on his face.
Turns out my cat had affixed itself to his behind with its claws."
And, yes, it *does* lose something in the translation, but *I* prefer a
pointer to alt.sex.funny here in r.p.c rather than a re-write.
Again, moot point, but your oversimplification to make a point was somewhat
flawed and biased.
>--
>-- little gator aka S. Mudgett email: s...@harvee.uucp
>-- friend of a gator is a friend of mine
-- Stephen
nuthin' left but the signature... press `n' to skip it.
The `past' is the pablum we feed our souls when the `future' has
soured. Though it will sustain us, it will not allow growth.