"Make a Wish" pays for childs wish to KILL Animals !!!!!!!

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mrg...@htp.net

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May 12, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/12/96
to

"Make a Wish Foundation" PAYS for childs wish to-
take a safarri to Africa and KILL a Bear for fun !!!!!!!

PLEASE read this and call their toll free 800 number ( 800-332-9474
)and express YOUR dissatisfaction with their decision to grant this child a
wish to KILL a live BEAR before the child himself dies.

The Associated Press wire service confirmed yesterday the the
international organization "Make a Wish Foundation" based in Arizona, USA
has chosen to grant a dieing childs wish to go on a safarri and KILL A LIVE
BEAR. The organization plans to pay for this child to travel to Africa,
hotel, guns and ammo. The un-named child will be led to a spot in which "a
kill is assured".

What kind of message is this organization who is funded strictly
through charitable donations sending?????

It's OK to KILL innocent animals at a whim ????

PLEASE DON'T MISUNDERSTAND MY VIEW-

-I am VERY sorry that this child is terminally ill !!

-Granting a POSITIVE wish is WONDERFUL !!

-Killing this animal will obviously not provide this child food- or
clothing- Just FUN !!!!

-All it will do is take the innocent bear
to the grave !!!!

-If the child is going to die must he TAKE an innocent
animal with him ????

-It is VERY WRONG to condone the killing of animals and how can they
expect further $$$$ support from us the public after spending
our donated money to KILL ANIMALS ????

PLEASE CALL their (toll free 800 number) and tell of your feelings
toward this wish they choose to grant. Together we can STOP this senseless
MURDER !!!!

"Make A Wish Foundation"
800-332-9474

Susan Taft

unread,
May 13, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/13/96
to

mrg...@htp.net wrote:

>

I have also heard about this in the UK via a national radio station.
I only hope he dies before he gets there. Maybe there is some justice
in this world - a kid with this mentality does not deserve to live.
Flame me if you want but I can't see any justification in taking an
endangered species life.


Elizabeth Davies

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May 13, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/13/96
to

Dying child or not, allowing/bankrolling this is disgusting and absurd. I
will phone "Make A Wish" to express my outrage.


robert a. moeser

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May 13, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/13/96
to

In article <4n61qv$17...@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com>, UAL...@prodigy.com
(Elizabeth Davies) wrote:

:Dying child or not, allowing/bankrolling this is disgusting and absurd. I

:will phone "Make A Wish" to express my outrage.

me too.

> "Make A Wish Foundation"
> 800-332-9474

also, i found them on the WWW using "make a wish" as a search key for
the webcrawler. i found this list of corporate sponsors.

i am going to email at least those companies that begin with "R" or
"A" or "M", my initials. if you have a moment or two, why not email
a select company or two yourself?

-- rob

p.s. obCats: lennie agrees, this stinks.


Advance Auto Parts
Allstate Insurance Company
America West Airlines
American Airlines
Anheuser-Busch Foundation
Best Buy Company, Inc.
Blue Angels
BoRics Haircare
Broadway Stores, Inc.
Chief Auto Parts Inc.
Computer Pro
Continental Airlines
Discover Card
Gillette Corporation
Godiva Chocolatier, Inc.
HLC-Internet
Holiday Rambler
J.E. and Z.B. Butler Foundation
Kimberly-Clark Corp. / Lucky Stores
Knott's Berry Farm
La Quinta Inns, Inc.
Microsoft Corporation
Million Dollar Round Table Foundation
Nissan North America, Inc.
Northwest Airlines
Premier Cruise Lines
The Richard E. Jacobs Group
Saturn Corporation
Sears, Roebuck & Company
Service America Corporation
Sizzler International Inc.
SmithKline Beecham
ToysUs
United Airlines
USA Coaches, Inc.
USAir
Venture Stores, Inc.
The Walt Disney World Company
Wemco, Inc.
World Wrestling Federation
Steve Vaus Productions

John Herold

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May 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/14/96
to

mrg...@htp.net wrote:

>
> "Make a Wish Foundation" PAYS for childs wish to-
> take a safarri to Africa and KILL a Bear for fun !!!!!!!
>
> PLEASE read this and call their toll free 800 number ( 800-332-9474
>)and express YOUR dissatisfaction with their decision to grant this child a
>wish to KILL a live BEAR before the child himself dies.
>
> The Associated Press wire service confirmed yesterday the the
>international organization "Make a Wish Foundation" based in Arizona, USA
>has chosen to grant a dieing childs wish to go on a safarri and KILL A LIVE
>BEAR. The organization plans to pay for this child to travel to Africa,
>hotel, guns and ammo. The un-named child will be led to a spot in which "a
>kill is assured".

Oh, good Lord, can't we ever get the facts straight in this
newsgroup?!?

First, the child's wish is to hunt and kill a Kodiak bear, in ALASKA
(not Africa). There will be no safarri... geesh.

The AP reported that the Make A Wish Foundation would be fulfilling
the kid's wish, that much is true; and the MAWF acknowledges it.

I've called the MAWF and asked for the FACTS of the matter -- whether
the meat / carcass will be igiven to the natives, etc. Whether the
bear in question might be one destined for desbtuction already.
Whether this will be part of a legal hunt, or what.

I find it rather hard to belive that MAWF would take on a project like
this with so much public relations disater potential without covering
these bases.

Until we find out the FACTS, let's all calm down... please?


-John Herold, THC Cattery (Traditonal Siamese), Baltimore MD

BRADLEY BLECK

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May 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/14/96
to

Post their phone number!

Rachel

D&P Gubanc

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May 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/14/96
to

[some snipped]

>I find it rather hard to belive that MAWF would take on a project like
>this with so much public relations disater potential without covering
>these bases.
>
>Until we find out the FACTS, let's all calm down... please?
>
>
>
>
> -John Herold, THC Cattery (Traditonal Siamese), Baltimore MD

John, I appreciate and commend your trying to remain calm and rational.
Unfortunately, our egotistical assumption that we have the right to
invade dwindling habitat and kill the animals trying to survive there
makes it difficult for me to be other than enraged. The issue, for me,
isn't whether we're talking about a sole expedition or a safari, nor
whether the bear lives in Alaska or in a penthouse overlooking Central
Park. The issue, for me, is that we so discount any lives other than
human lives. It seems to me, by the way, that all of the myriad
supermarkets we've developed on all of what USED to be habitat contain
more than enough meat, wrapped nicely in shrink wrap, to feed the
entire damned universe!!!! Phyllis

Pam Bartlett

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May 15, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/15/96
to

In article <4n61qv$17...@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com> UAL...@prodigy.com (Elizabeth Davies) writes:
>From: UAL...@prodigy.com (Elizabeth Davies)
>Subject: Re: "Make a Wish" pays for childs wish to KILL Animals !!!!!!!
>Date: 13 May 1996 01:04:31 GMT

>Dying child or not, allowing/bankrolling this is disgusting and absurd. I
>will phone "Make A Wish" to express my outrage.

Me too, I am so disappointed. This has always been one of my favorite
organizations.
Pam

barbara pattist

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May 15, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/15/96
to

r...@tiac.net (robert a. moeser) wrote:

>In article <4n61qv$17...@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com>, UAL...@prodigy.com
>(Elizabeth Davies) wrote:

>:Dying child or not, allowing/bankrolling this is disgusting and absurd. I

>:will phone "Make A Wish" to express my outrage.

>me too.

>-- rob

Thanks, rob, I shall.

Here is the URL
http://www.wish.org/index.html

There's now a message that the sponsors page is under construction.
Might we hope that a lot are dropping out!

Here is the chairman's statement.

KODIAK BEAR STATEMENT

"Make-A-Wish Foundation grants wishes to children up to 18 years of
age who have life-threatening illnesses. Our wishes are limited only
by the child's imagination, and often reflect the activities and way
of life to which the child is accustomed.

The wish of a Minnesota boy to hunt Kodiak bear in Alaska has been
approved by the Board of Directors of our Minnesota Chapter. It is the
sincere wish of the youngster and reflects a lifelong involvement in
family hunting and fishing trips.

We are aware that the wish has resulted in debate, both pro and con.
We respect the rights of all parties to express their own values and
opinions."

James E. "Jim" Gordon
Chairman, Board of Directors
Make-A-Wish Foundation of America


Pam Bartlett

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May 15, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/15/96
to

In article <4n5gpa$r...@soap.news.pipex.net> jr...@dial.pipex.com (Susan Taft) writes:
>From: jr...@dial.pipex.com (Susan Taft)

>Subject: Re: "Make a Wish" pays for childs wish to KILL Animals !!!!!!!
>Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 04:12:53 GMT

>mrg...@htp.net wrote:

>>

>> "Make a Wish Foundation" PAYS for childs wish to-
>> take a safarri to Africa and KILL a Bear for fun !!!!!!!

>> PLEASE read this and call their toll free 800 number ( 800-332-9474
>>)and express YOUR dissatisfaction with their decision to grant this child a
>>wish to KILL a live BEAR before the child himself dies.

>> The Associated Press wire service confirmed yesterday the the
>>international organization "Make a Wish Foundation" based in Arizona, USA
>>has chosen to grant a dieing childs wish to go on a safarri and KILL A LIVE
>>BEAR. The organization plans to pay for this child to travel to Africa,
>>hotel, guns and ammo. The un-named child will be led to a spot in which "a
>>kill is assured".

>> What kind of message is this organization who is funded strictly
>>through charitable donations sending?????

>> It's OK to KILL innocent animals at a whim ????

>> PLEASE DON'T MISUNDERSTAND MY VIEW-
>>
>> -I am VERY sorry that this child is terminally ill !!

>> -Granting a POSITIVE wish is WONDERFUL !!

>> -Killing this animal will obviously not provide this child food- or
>> clothing- Just FUN !!!!

>> -All it will do is take the innocent bear
>> to the grave !!!!

>> -If the child is going to die must he TAKE an innocent
>> animal with him ????

>> -It is VERY WRONG to condone the killing of animals and how can they
>> expect further $$$$ support from us the public after spending
>> our donated money to KILL ANIMALS ????

>> PLEASE CALL their (toll free 800 number) and tell of your feelings
>>toward this wish they choose to grant. Together we can STOP this senseless
>>MURDER !!!!

>>"Make A Wish Foundation"
>> 800-332-9474

>I have also heard about this in the UK via a national radio station.


>I only hope he dies before he gets there. Maybe there is some justice
>in this world - a kid with this mentality does not deserve to live.
>Flame me if you want but I can't see any justification in taking an
>endangered species life.

Normally I don't respond to this type of thing, but having lost my only child
when he was 14 I simply cannot comprehend someone saying "I only hope he
dies...". While I am appalled at the Make a Wish Foundation for supporting
this loathsome "wish" and intend to call them, wishing someone's child dead
leaves me speechless.
Pam

David Leach

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May 15, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/15/96
to

John Herold wrote:
>
>
> Oh, good Lord, can't we ever get the facts straight in this
> newsgroup?!?
>
> First, the child's wish is to hunt and kill a Kodiak bear, in ALASKA
> (not Africa). There will be no safarri... geesh.

And the difference here, other than cost, is?


>
> The AP reported that the Make A Wish Foundation would be fulfilling
> the kid's wish, that much is true; and the MAWF acknowledges it.
>
> I've called the MAWF and asked for the FACTS of the matter -- whether
> the meat / carcass will be igiven to the natives, etc. Whether the
> bear in question might be one destined for desbtuction already.
> Whether this will be part of a legal hunt, or what.

You called, and they said what? Don't tease us, let us know.



> Until we find out the FACTS, let's all calm down... please?

The unfortunate fact is that a lot of people and companies give a lot of money to
keep the Make-a-Wish Foundation going. It's a pretty neat idea to have
terminally ill kids get a trip to Disney World or a ride on the GoodYear blimp
that they would not otherwise be able to afford. BUT, that the same corporations
and the people who run them are supporting Bear hunting is repugnant too many,
and will create PR and fund raising problems for the organization for a while to
come I think.


>
> -John Herold, THC Cattery (Traditonal Siamese), Baltimore MD

David Leach

John Herold

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May 15, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/15/96
to

On 14 May 1996 18:20:04 GMT, guba...@ix.netcom.com(D&P Gubanc) wrote:

>[some snipped]
>
>>I find it rather hard to belive that MAWF would take on a project like
>>this with so much public relations disater potential without covering
>>these bases.
>>

>>Until we find out the FACTS, let's all calm down... please?
>>

>> -John Herold, THC Cattery (Traditonal Siamese), Baltimore MD
>

>John, I appreciate and commend your trying to remain calm and rational.

Thank you <bowing deeply, presenting bald head as target for pies
about to be thrown>. :-)

>Unfortunately, our egotistical assumption that we have the right to
>invade dwindling habitat and kill the animals trying to survive there
>makes it difficult for me to be other than enraged. The issue, for me,
>isn't whether we're talking about a sole expedition or a safari, nor
>whether the bear lives in Alaska or in a penthouse overlooking Central
>Park. The issue, for me, is that we so discount any lives other than
>human lives.

Well... it turns out that the bear hunt he kid is on is entirely
legal, etc., just like deer season in many parts of the U.S. It seems
your complaint is about hunting, not this incident (which I now
question for other reason, as notedin another post). And that's a
whole 'nother subject, I think.

> It seems to me, by the way, that all of the myriad
>supermarkets we've developed on all of what USED to be habitat contain
>more than enough meat, wrapped nicely in shrink wrap, to feed the
>entire damned universe!!!! Phyllis

Er, not quite; otherwise, the meat form the geese that I shoot (in
season, when there is a season) would have no need to be donated to
the needy. ;-)

Ruth Laurie

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May 15, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/15/96
to
it seems stupid to be mad at the fact that a child that
has little time left to live shouldn't be allowed to go
out to hunt in peace. What are the chances that he'll even
see a bear let alone shot one? Don't be so ridiculous
The child has a right to happiness and if the bear meat is
going to be eaten you don't have anything to bitch about
it really isn't any of your business anyways. It's not like
the bear is on the endagered species list, just take a minute
to think about it do you really think they would agree to
the hunt if it were?

Mike -n- Val Stephens

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May 15, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/15/96
to

Susan Taft (jr...@dial.pipex.com) wrote:
: mrg...@htp.net wrote:

: >

: > "Make a Wish Foundation" PAYS for childs wish to-
: > take a safarri to Africa and KILL a Bear for fun !!!!!!!

: > PLEASE read this and call their toll free 800 number ( 800-332-9474
: >)and express YOUR dissatisfaction with their decision to grant this child a
: >wish to KILL a live BEAR before the child himself dies.

I appreciate your passion for the subject, but make sure to reveal the
FACTS about the situation so we don't have 600 people calling them
without a CLUE...first of all...YOU CAN'T GO ON A SAFARI FOR KODIAK BEARS IN
AFRICA!
At least not the last time I checked. I mean, I guess you technically
*could* go, but I don't think you'd come back with anything. The poor kid
wants to hunt a Kodiak bear, which happens to be native in ALASKA.
Now, I don't agree with this one bit, the kid souldn't be allowed
to kill an animal for fun. BUT I do see the bad position Make-a-Wish was
in. I guess they were pretty much darned if they did, darned if they
didn't. I mean, can't you just SEE the headlines...Make-a-wish denies
child their dying wish, News at 11...or something to this effect. Again,
in my opinion this would have been the correct thing to do by not letting
the child go, but, this is a major corporation with lots of sponsors.
Now, the really scary part is, they did vote on this and talk about it
for weeks, so obviously must have gotten a majority vote and consensus
from the leading people of that company. Personally, I won't call them
because there are much bigger problems in the animal-industry to think
about, like poachers, and people that go out and club baby seals, and
old, drunk men who go kill 50 deer in a weekend just for the sport of it
(and before I get flamed, I know that young, sober men do this also, just
not in my family, heh). If a 7 year old girl can be allowed to fly an
airplane, the kid should be allowed to go hunt a bear. Not because it is
or isn't morally correct, but because it is his right. I mean, if the kid
didn't have this disease, he might grow to be 20, move to Alaska, and
kill a bear a day, and noone would say anything, right? I dunno, I just
say give the kid his dying wish. If I was his dad, I would try talking
him into a *different* wish. Also, they could consider just shooting it
with tranquilzer darts or something (dunno how that works). Not the most
humane thing but better than killing it. Maybe the kid would never even
know, heh. I also have one other question, are Kodiak bears killed for
anything like their fur? I mean, if they called a business that
kill & manufactued bear meat or something, the kid could go shoot the
bear and donate it or something...that way they weren't just killing it
and leaving it for the vultures, which I TOTALLY disagree with. We kill
animals everyday, but I dont agree with purely killing an animal for fun
and not doing anything with it after that (like stuffing it). Anyways,
that's just my opinion..you don't have to agree with it but please don't
personally attack me for it.
Val & Dobie
--
'Keep those ferrets )|||||( /====\ )|( 'Hey dad,
away from me!' | | /| |\ (/ \) can the cat
/\___/\ |@ @ | //| @ @|\\ / o o \ )|( come
( o o ) | U | ///| U |\\\ \ u / /oo \) play?'
------((---------))-oo0O-------O0oo----o0O----O0o-----||-----||---------------
Opinions exressed here may not be the opinions of both Michael AND Valerie..
you never know when one's taking the side of another animal!

D&P Gubanc

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May 15, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/15/96
to

>it seems stupid to be mad at the fact that a child that
>has little time left to live shouldn't be allowed to go
>out to hunt in peace. What are the chances that he'll even
>see a bear let alone shot one? Don't be so ridiculous
>The child has a right to happiness and if the bear meat is
>going to be eaten you don't have anything to bitch about
>it really isn't any of your business anyways. It's not like
>the bear is on the endagered species list, just take a minute
>to think about it do you really think they would agree to
>the hunt if it were?

Hmmmm. Taking a minute to think. Hmmmmm. Yes, I do. Now. Humans
aren't an endangered species, are they? So why do we object to going
out and stalking them and killing them? Oh, yes. We're the superior
race. Sorry. I forget these important facts so quickly. Oh, and by the
way, I've read about the bear hunts, and have been told by a woman who
participated in one (and killed one) that the hunters are pretty much
assured that they will, in fact, bag one of those dreadful creatures
who dare to walk the same earth we do, taunting us with their
"huntability." And if I stayed out of everything that isn't my
business, I wouldn't have rescued abandoned cats, donated to the Cancer
Society, worked with alcoholics and drug addicts, volunteered at
wildlife rehab clinics, etc. That "child" is a 17 year old who has
chosen as his dying wish to kill a living creature. I find that to be
my business, damnit, whether you like it or not. And I hope to God that
if YOU ever need help, someone like me is nearby to offer it. Phyllis

D&P Gubanc

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May 15, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/15/96
to

>Well... it turns out that the bear hunt he kid is on is entirely
>legal, etc., just like deer season in many parts of the U.S. It seems
>your complaint is about hunting, not this incident (which I now
>question for other reason, as notedin another post). And that's a
>whole 'nother subject, I think.
>

>Er, not quite; otherwise, the meat form the geese that I shoot (in
>season, when there is a season) would have no need to be donated to
>the needy. ;-)
>
> -John Herold, THC Cattery (Traditonal Siamese), Baltimore MD

Nah, John. I don't object to hunting. My husband and I own 89 acres in
WVA filled with deer nicely seasoned with the oregano I've planted each
year, the azaleas I've planted, even the occasional catnip plant.
Friends and family hunt on our property during each hunting season.
Even if the bear is used for food, I loathe the concept. I can't
explain the difference between bear for food/deer for food. This whole
thing just feels wrong. Phyllis

D&P Gubanc

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May 15, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/15/96
to

[drivel snipped - okay, my opinion only!]

>We are aware that the wish has resulted in debate, both pro and con.
>We respect the rights of all parties to express their own values and
>opinions."
>
>James E. "Jim" Gordon
>Chairman, Board of Directors
>Make-A-Wish Foundation of America
>
>

>......but they clearly don't respect the rights of wildlife, do they?
Or are humans the only ones with any rights? That must be it. Silly me.
Phyllis

Mike -n- Val Stephens

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May 15, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/15/96
to

David Leach (David...@nortel.com) wrote:

: John Herold wrote:
: >
: >
: > Oh, good Lord, can't we ever get the facts straight in this
: > newsgroup?!?
: >
: > First, the child's wish is to hunt and kill a Kodiak bear, in ALASKA
: > (not Africa). There will be no safarri... geesh.

: And the difference here, other than cost, is?

Nothing, except for the fact that if you're going to write a heated post
such as hers, you should get the fact straight. I mean, can you imagine
the thousand or so people calling make-a-wish and sounding like morons who
can't get their facts straight? And, it's a pity noone has brought this up
before..people DO hunt. Anyone that knows a family of hunters knows how
passionate they are about the sport (dumb though it may be). The kid
probaly just wants to be like he 'dad' or something, for he will never
grow up and experience the same things. He's seen his dad do it all his
life, and it is important to him. I dunno, hunting is wrong but I doubt
the kid is old enough to make this distinction. Maybe not granting the
wish would have broken his heart. I guess I can just see it from both
points of view.

mrg...@htp.net

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May 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/16/96
to

Kets go to each of their www sites and tell each of the sponsers that we
wont deal with them until they stop this !!!!

In article <3197f5a...@news.clark.net>,


j...@clark.net (John Herold) wrote:
>mrg...@htp.net wrote:
>
>>
>> "Make a Wish Foundation" PAYS for childs wish to-
>> take a safarri to Africa and KILL a Bear for fun !!!!!!!
>>
>> PLEASE read this and call their toll free 800 number ( 800-332-9474
>>)and express YOUR dissatisfaction with their decision to grant this child
a
>>wish to KILL a live BEAR before the child himself dies.
>>

>> The Associated Press wire service confirmed yesterday the the
>>international organization "Make a Wish Foundation" based in Arizona, USA

>>has chosen to grant a dieing childs wish to go on a safarri and KILL A
LIVE
>>BEAR. The organization plans to pay for this child to travel to Africa,
>>hotel, guns and ammo. The un-named child will be led to a spot in which "a
>>kill is assured".
>

>Oh, good Lord, can't we ever get the facts straight in this
>newsgroup?!?
>
>First, the child's wish is to hunt and kill a Kodiak bear, in ALASKA
>(not Africa). There will be no safarri... geesh.
>

>The AP reported that the Make A Wish Foundation would be fulfilling
>the kid's wish, that much is true; and the MAWF acknowledges it.
>
>I've called the MAWF and asked for the FACTS of the matter -- whether
>the meat / carcass will be igiven to the natives, etc. Whether the
>bear in question might be one destined for desbtuction already.
>Whether this will be part of a legal hunt, or what.
>

>I find it rather hard to belive that MAWF would take on a project like
>this with so much public relations disater potential without covering
>these bases.
>
>Until we find out the FACTS, let's all calm down... please?
>
>
>
>

David Swanson

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May 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/16/96
to

>
>The unfortunate fact is that a lot of people and companies give a lot of money
>to
>keep the Make-a-Wish Foundation going. It's a pretty neat idea to have
>terminally ill kids get a trip to Disney World or a ride on the GoodYear blimp
>that they would not otherwise be able to afford. BUT, that the same corporati
o
>ns
>and the people who run them are supporting Bear hunting is repugnant too many,
>and will create PR and fund raising problems for the organization for a while
t
>o
>come I think.
>
>
>
>David Leach

It's a free country. The "make a wish foundation" can do what it chooses
and support the causes that it feels are right. We don't have to agree and
WE DON"T HAVE TO SUPPORT THEM. I personally cant wait for some telephone
fund raiser to call and try to get ME to donate. I will continue to ask
questions about the bear until HE/SHE hangs up on me!

Wouldn't you just love to be known as "that bear killing gruop" - talk
about a PR nightmare!

Hilda

sham...@inferno.com

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May 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/16/96
to

GU>[some snipped]

GU>>I find it rather hard to belive that MAWF would take on a project like
GU>>this with so much public relations disater potential without covering
GU>>these bases.
GU>>
GU>>Until we find out the FACTS, let's all calm down... please?
GU>>
GU>>
GU>>
GU>>
GU>> -John Herold, THC Cattery (Traditonal Siamese), Baltimore MD

GU>John, I appreciate and commend your trying to remain calm and rational.
GU>Unfortunately, our egotistical assumption that we have the right to
GU>invade dwindling habitat and kill the animals trying to survive there
GU>makes it difficult for me to be other than enraged. The issue, for me,
GU>isn't whether we're talking about a sole expedition or a safari, nor
GU>whether the bear lives in Alaska or in a penthouse overlooking Central
GU>Park. The issue, for me, is that we so discount any lives other than
GU>human lives. It seems to me, by the way, that all of the myriad
GU>supermarkets we've developed on all of what USED to be habitat contain
GU>more than enough meat, wrapped nicely in shrink wrap, to feed the
GU>entire damned universe!!!! Phyllis

I saw a great political cartoon today re this travesty of MAW. It was a
parent bear sitting reading a letter with a child bear. Parent "Oh Make
A Wish have granted you your wish to maul a human before you die".

Kate


John Herold

unread,
May 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/16/96
to

On Wed, 15 May 1996 12:14:32 -0500, David Leach
<David...@nortel.com> wrote:

>John Herold wrote:
>>...


>> First, the child's wish is to hunt and kill a Kodiak bear, in ALASKA
>> (not Africa). There will be no safarri... geesh.
>

>And the difference here, other than cost, is?

Was just pointing out the origianl poster's inaccuracy, which on this
magnitude makes the overall post questionable IMO.

(Regardig cost, the trip was an in-kind donation by a hunt-travel
agancy.)

>> The AP reported that the Make A Wish Foundation would be fulfilling
>> the kid's wish, that much is true; and the MAWF acknowledges it.
>>
>> I've called the MAWF and asked for the FACTS of the matter -- whether
>> the meat / carcass will be igiven to the natives, etc. Whether the
>> bear in question might be one destined for desbtuction already.
>> Whether this will be part of a legal hunt, or what.
>

>You called, and they said what? Don't tease us, let us know.

I posted a rundown on that, but it doesn't seem to be on my server so
maybe it didn't go out. They weren't much help, wouldn't talk about
it except to confirm that the hunt was in progress and that it had
been through their Michigan chapter, and so on. Found out more
searching 'AP OnLine' at the LA Times website.

>> Until we find out the FACTS, let's all calm down... please?
>

>The unfortunate fact is that a lot of people and companies give a lot of money to
>keep the Make-a-Wish Foundation going. It's a pretty neat idea to have
>terminally ill kids get a trip to Disney World or a ride on the GoodYear blimp
>that they would not otherwise be able to afford. BUT, that the same corporations
>and the people who run them are supporting Bear hunting is repugnant too many,
>and will create PR and fund raising problems for the organization for a while to
>come I think.

I think the MAWF has a lot to learn about public relations.

I think that if they'd made it clear that the kid was on a legal,
guided hunt many people who had a different impressionw ould have been
satisfied.

I'll go farther. There's a lot of jumping up and down about this kid,
but none about all the other legal guided bear hunts in Alaska. If
you had to rank them, this kid's hunt would be farther down the scale
than many others with less purpose/rationale behind them. Howcum no
one is raising hell with Alaska and the guides for those other hunts?
And where are the massive demonstrations in Alaska's capital against
bear hunting as a legal activity? Hmmm...

I think the MAWF did okay here. AP reports that the upsets are coming
from urbanbased animal rights groups, but few from areas where the
animlas are. Sounds to me like a lot of people trying to tell other
people how to live, a lot of "let's you and him fight" kind of talk.
Whatever, MAWF did what they've said they were for all along, and I'm
glad to see an organization fulfilling its purpose. They'll get a
donation from me this year.

Ginger Sackett Glaser

unread,
May 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/17/96
to

>I posted a rundown on that, but it doesn't seem to be on my server so
>maybe it didn't go out. They weren't much help, wouldn't talk about
>it except to confirm that the hunt was in progress and that it had
>been through their Michigan chapter, and so on. Found out more
>searching 'AP OnLine' at the LA Times website.

Well, while we're correcting facts here ----

It was the Minnesota chapter, not Michigan. The family lives in White
Bear Lake, MN (a suburb of St. Paul).

Ginger


Barbara Cullingsworth

unread,
May 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/17/96
to

Isn' there enough killing in this world without 'Make A Wish'
contributing to more of it? Don't Animals have rights? I guess not...I
am sorry! I forgot that they don't work and pay taxes. Money! Money!
Money! We take the habitat away from animals by building shopping centers
and tract housing. When the poor animals 'get in our way' we want to
either kill them or relocate them. This world is becoming a real 'piece
of work'. I would rather live surrounded by critters than to be
surrounded by humans. Why does everything have to hinge on money instead
of doing the right thing. 'Make A Wish' is getting my email message and
it will not be a pleasant one. I will never support them ever if they
don't make a clause stating that there can be no wish granted that would
take the life of a living thing.

Barb

=^;^=


John Herold

unread,
May 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/18/96
to

(I mixed up my states... mea culpa, and thank you for the gentle
correction!) :-)

BRADLEY BLECK

unread,
May 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/18/96
to

I read in the local paper today that Make A Wish has decided to review
its approval of future hunting-related wishes. Just a few days ago I
heard one of their people stating that they weren't going to back down or
change their policies. Those of us who called can no doubt take credit
for this turn-around.

Rachel

White Fox

unread,
May 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/18/96
to

On Wed, 15 May 1996 15:31:30 GMT, ut...@netcom.com (Mike -n- Val
Stephens) wrote:

> Now, I don't agree with this one bit, the kid souldn't be allowed
>to kill an animal for fun. BUT I do see the bad position Make-a-Wish was
>in. I guess they were pretty much darned if they did, darned if they
>didn't. I mean, can't you just SEE the headlines...Make-a-wish denies
>child their dying wish, News at 11...or something to this effect.


Make-a-Wish requires that the child give them two wishes to consider.
If the first wish is unacceptable, they go for the second wish. The
wishes are not to include anything that puts the child in a dangerous
situation or gives the child a firearm. This wish seems to violate
both of these rules. However, there is also an escape clause that
allows for hunting. Yes, this is a bit contradictory.

The point here is that Make-a-Wish did not have to allow the first
wish, and in fact has gone for a child's second wish on several
occasions in similar circumstances involving danger & firearms. The
headlines came because of allowing this wish, denying it to use his
second wish would have caused nothing on the scale of this debacle.


> If a 7 year old girl can be allowed to fly an
>airplane, the kid should be allowed to go hunt a bear.


If you are talking about the girl I think you are, she died when the
plane crashed. And I wouldn't consider this a comparable situation
since it didn't involve giving a child a firearm and sanctioning the
killing of an animal for other purposes than to eat. But I'm not sure
that Make-a-Wish would have considered granting a wish to allow the
girl to fly across country in the context of it being too dangerous.


> I also have one other question, are Kodiak bears killed for
>anything like their fur? I mean, if they called a business that
>kill & manufactued bear meat or something, the kid could go shoot the
>bear and donate it or something...that way they weren't just killing it
>and leaving it for the vultures, which I TOTALLY disagree with. We kill
>animals everyday, but I dont agree with purely killing an animal for fun
>and not doing anything with it after that (like stuffing it).


Bears are killed mostly for their fur, this is why we have bear rugs.
I've heard he wants to stuff it, but I don't know if that's for sure,
taxidermy is expensive. Not to mention after awhile the thing starts
to look like hell, it gets dirty and sheds, and basically takes up a
lot of room for something that just collects spider webs between it's
front teeth. Most people find the eating of bear meat to be rather
unpleasant so I doubt that was a consideration. We can only hope they
give the meat to the native population, who are probably the only ones
who would utilize it instead of letting it go to waste.


White Fox

robert a. moeser

unread,
May 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/19/96
to

In article <319bb0b...@news.clark.net>, j...@clark.net (John Herold) wrote:

:...They'll get a donation from me this year.

not from me.

this web address was brought to my attention (thanks, Pearl!):

http://www.wcco.com/bts/williams.html

you can go there and vote! i voted "no". very satisfying.
drop them some email while you are there.

my brother wrote me saying:

>I voted no too. But I think he should actually have a chance to
>hunt the Kodiak bear...without a gun. Just Erik against the bear.
>That would be ok.

ha! ok with me too! :-)

-- rob

Odette Brown

unread,
May 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/19/96
to

Hi,
Better vote NO soon the YES is winning.

Odette.

--
**** Odette Brown ** I love Cats *****
*** La Belle Province ** Quebec ** CANADA ***
*** My home page can be found at this URL ***
http://www.worldlink.ca/~rathey/odette.htm

D&P Gubanc

unread,
May 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/19/96
to

> Hi,
> Better vote NO soon the YES is winning.
>
> Odette.
>
>--
>**** Odette Brown ** I love Cats *****
>*** La Belle Province ** Quebec ** CANADA ***
>*** My home page can be found at this URL ***
> http://www.worldlink.ca/~rathey/odette.htm

Yeah. I just voted. It was 66% yes, 33% no. I guess the remaining 1%
was out hunting. Phyllis

D&P Gubanc

unread,
May 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/19/96
to

>>I voted no too. But I think he should actually have a chance to
>>hunt the Kodiak bear...without a gun. Just Erik against the bear.
>>That would be ok.
>
>ha! ok with me too! :-)
>
>-- rob

Me, too! Either that, or give the bear a gun. AFter all, I support the
right to arm bears. Phyllis [quoting one of her favorite bumper
stickers]


Ginger Sackett Glaser

unread,
May 20, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/20/96
to

r...@tiac.net (robert a. moeser) wrote:

>In article <319bb0b...@news.clark.net>, j...@clark.net (John Herold) wrote:

>:...They'll get a donation from me this year.

>not from me.

>this web address was brought to my attention (thanks, Pearl!):

>http://www.wcco.com/bts/williams.html

To those who are interested, Kraft is doing a fundraiser for Make a
Wish this month, where a portion of every purchase goes to them. If
you are serious about not supporting them, you might want to lay off
Kraft products for a while.

Ginger


KathyG

unread,
May 20, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/20/96
to

guba...@ix.netcom.com(D&P Gubanc) wrote:

~ >>I voted no too. But I think he should actually have a chance to
~ >>hunt the Kodiak bear...without a gun. Just Erik against the bear.
~ >>That would be ok.
~ >
~ >ha! ok with me too! :-)
~ >
~ >-- rob
~
~ Me, too! Either that, or give the bear a gun. AFter all, I support the
~ right to arm bears. Phyllis [quoting one of her favorite bumper
~ stickers]

Oh sh*t , Phyllis I was eating and snorted pocorn straight up me nose. I
don't care tho'--that's a great slogan!

--
8 cats 1 d*g and 1 hoomin so far...
[Colette, Lily, Frau Freya, Leon, Burt, Leify, Simba, Puffy, William(a d*g),
& Kathy(a hoomin)]

sham...@inferno.com

unread,
May 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/21/96
to

BL>I read in the local paper today that Make A Wish has decided to review
BL>its approval of future hunting-related wishes. Just a few days ago I
BL>heard one of their people stating that they weren't going to back down or
BL>change their policies. Those of us who called can no doubt take credit
BL>for this turn-around.

BL>Rachel

Since when has a 17 year old been a child? He is in remission. This
stinks. Kate


sham...@inferno.com

unread,
May 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/21/96
to

CH>Make-a-Wish requires that the child give them two wishes to consider.

This "child" was 17 years old.

CH>If the first wish is unacceptable, they go for the second wish. The

One wonders what the first wish was if the second was to kill a bear!

CH>wishes are not to include anything that puts the child in a dangerous
CH>situation or gives the child a firearm. This wish seems to violate
CH>both of these rules. However, there is also an escape clause that
CH>allows for hunting. Yes, this is a bit contradictory.


CH>Bears are killed mostly for their fur, this is why we have bear rugs.
CH>I've heard he wants to stuff it, but I don't know if that's for sure,
CH>taxidermy is expensive. Not to mention after awhile the thing starts
CH>to look like hell, it gets dirty and sheds, and basically takes up a
CH>lot of room for something that just collects spider webs between it's
CH>front teeth. Most people find the eating of bear meat to be rather
CH>unpleasant so I doubt that was a consideration. We can only hope they
CH>give the meat to the native population, who are probably the only ones
CH>who would utilize it instead of letting it go to waste.


CH>White Fox

Actually bears are killed more these days for Chinese potions, their
gall bladders, paws, livers, etc. bring in big money.

Kate


Jane B. Sanders

unread,
May 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/21/96
to

In <4nqbj0$f...@cobra.Minn.Net> ggl...@minn.net (Ginger Sackett Glaser)
writes:
Thanks very much for this info, Ginger. I'll be sure to read labels
when I next go to the store.

Jane and Fraidi

Walter Eric Johnson

unread,
May 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/23/96
to

Mike -n- Val Stephens (ut...@netcom.com) wrote:
: know, heh. I also have one other question, are Kodiak bears killed for
: anything like their fur? I mean, if they called a business that
: kill & manufactued bear meat or something, the kid could go shoot the
: bear and donate it or something...that way they weren't just killing it

I am suprised by how many people don't appear to have any concept
of what this is about. There is a big difference between hunting
and killing. The excitement is in the hunt, all of it, not just
the shooting the bear. To walk up to a staked animal and shoot it
is of no interest at all (at least for people who understand
hunting). I have heard of game ranches which raise the game and
for a fee you go and shoot it with no hunting at all, but these
places, if they really exist, do not have hunters as their
clientelle. If all hunting was about was killing something,
the job of killing animals in slaughterhouse would be a highly
prized job. To hear you all tell it, hunting would be nothing
but target practice with animals as targets.

: and leaving it for the vultures, which I TOTALLY disagree with. We kill

: animals everyday, but I dont agree with purely killing an animal for fun

: and not doing anything with it after that (like stuffing it). Anyways,
: that's just my opinion..you don't have to agree with it but please don't

: personally attack me for it.

Eric Johnson

David Swanson

unread,
May 25, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/25/96
to
According to an article in the paper today, another Make A Wish chapter has
granted the wish of ANOTHER man (17 years old) who wants to shoot and kill
an Alaskan Moose.

We are not winning.

Hilda

sham...@inferno.com

unread,
May 26, 1996, 3:00:00 AM5/26/96
to

SW>>BL>I read in the local paper today that Make A Wish has decided to review
SW>>BL>its approval of future hunting-related wishes. Just a few days ago I
SW>>BL>heard one of their people stating that they weren't going to back down o
SW>>BL>change their policies. Those of us who called can no doubt take credit
SW>>BL>for this turn-around.
SW>>
SW>>BL>Rachel
SW>>
SW>>Since when has a 17 year old been a child? He is in remission. This
SW>>stinks. Kate
SW>>
SW>According to an article in the paper today, another Make A Wish chapter has
SW>granted the wish of ANOTHER man (17 years old) who wants to shoot and kill
SW>an Alaskan Moose.

SW>We are not winning.

SW>Hilda

Well they ain't getting no more of my money. Kate


TPoe123875

unread,
Jun 1, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/1/96
to

In response to your article I would just like to state that hunting is a
lawful and yes, valuable tool in game management. The bears in question
are not endangered and hunting is used as a tool to keep the numbers from
increasing beyond the carrying capacity of the land. If the numbers
increase too much the bears will suffer from hunger and all the problems
that will go along with it.

Odette Brown

unread,
Jun 1, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/1/96
to


And WHY DO YOU THINK there is not enough room for the bears????

D&P Gubanc

unread,
Jun 3, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/3/96
to

>TPoe123875 (tpoe1...@aol.com) writes:
>> In response to your article I would just like to state that hunting
is a
>> lawful and yes, valuable tool in game management. The bears in
question
>> are not endangered and hunting is used as a tool to keep the numbers
from
>> increasing beyond the carrying capacity of the land. If the numbers
>> increase too much the bears will suffer from hunger and all the
problems
>> that will go along with it.
>
>
> And WHY DO YOU THINK there is not enough room for the bears????
>
> Odette.
>

AMEN! Phyllis

David Swanson

unread,
Jun 3, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/3/96
to

>In response to your article I would just like to state that hunting is a
>lawful and yes, valuable tool in game management. The bears in question
>are not endangered and hunting is used as a tool to keep the numbers from
>increasing beyond the carrying capacity of the land. If the numbers
>increase too much the bears will suffer from hunger and all the problems
>that will go along with it.
>
Sure, but should my donations pay for some nimrod to go to Alaska to
kill a bear for his own amusement?

Hilda

Matthew Doig

unread,
Jun 3, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/3/96
to

Odette Brown (au...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) wrote:
:
: TPoe123875 (tpoe1...@aol.com) writes:
: > In response to your article I would just like to state that hunting is a

: > lawful and yes, valuable tool in game management. The bears in question
: > are not endangered and hunting is used as a tool to keep the numbers from
: > increasing beyond the carrying capacity of the land. If the numbers
: > increase too much the bears will suffer from hunger and all the problems
: > that will go along with it.
:
:
: And WHY DO YOU THINK there is not enough room for the bears????
:
: Odette.
:
Well, it isn't quite the reason you think it is. Yes, some of the Kodiak
bear's territory has been taken over by men, but even if it hadn't, the
bears would face the same problems, the only difference is that nature
would take care of the population control. The bear population would
increase, overburdening the land until food became scarce, leaving the
excess bear population to die slow, painful deaths by starvation and
disease. Ever so much more preferable than being killed by a hunter,
because they would have died natural deaths. Painful, slow, excrutiating
natural deaths.

--
Grundoon, that Li'l Groun'chunk Chile "Grs!"

"And isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean -- all
you get is one trick: rational thinking. But when you're good and
crazy ... hoo, hoo, hoo, hoo, hoo! The sky's the limit!"
-- The Tick

sham...@inferno.com

unread,
Jun 4, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/4/96
to

SW>>In response to your article I would just like to state that hunting is a
SW>>lawful and yes, valuable tool in game management. The bears in question
SW>>are not endangered and hunting is used as a tool to keep the numbers from
SW>>increasing beyond the carrying capacity of the land. If the numbers
SW>>increase too much the bears will suffer from hunger and all the problems
SW>>that will go along with it.
SW>>
SW>Sure, but should my donations pay for some nimrod to go to Alaska to
SW>kill a bear for his own amusement?

SW>Hilda

Boy how would you feel if we applied the same standards for us humans who
are taking all the animal habitats and and food sources, and in so
doing, slowly destroy nature's balance?

I'm with you Hilda, I do not wish my donation to help fund the killing
of any animal, nor do I wish it to be used for a young man, not a child.

Kate


Robin Hemenway

unread,
Jun 4, 1996, 3:00:00 AM6/4/96
to

On 1 Jun 1996, TPoe123875 wrote:

> In response to your article I would just like to state that hunting is a

> lawful and yes, valuable tool in game management. The bears in question

> are not endangered and hunting is used as a tool to keep the numbers from

> increasing beyond the carrying capacity of the land. If the numbers

> increase too much the bears will suffer from hunger and all the problems

> that will go along with it.
>
>

Excuse me, do you know what "carrying capacity" IS? It means that
when the environment can't support as many bears as exist, they die off
or don't reproduce at the same rate. Nature can take of herself just
fine, and no foundation should grant any dying child the wish to take an
innocent life.