Want to electrify blinds to deter cat...
Gregg Woodcock
venetian blinds in my house and it is almost to the point of "It's
either her or me". We have tried ignoring here but that doesn't work
(although if we leave the room, she comes with us). I am *very*
seriously considering electifying the blinds by running a wire up the
side touching each horizontal metal strip and connecting the other
wire to a "mat" made out of tin foil where she (my cat) will be
standing. I'm considering using a car or motorcycle battery but I
wan't to be sure I'm not going to injure my cat. Does anybody know
the right voltage for a cat (or should I just put a fuse on my
circuit) to be gently shocked from front foot to back foot (or the
risisance between)?
P.S. This is a serious post. Email is preferred because I don't
normaly read these groups.
--
THANX...Gregg day 214.684.7380 night 214.530.2495 TEXAS NOT CANADA!
wood...@bnr.ca wood...@sdf.lonestar.org bn...@cleveland.freenet.edu
*CLASSIC VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR BUY/SELL/TRADE PRE-NINTENDO (ARCADE/HOME)*
"If you quote me on this I'll have to deny it; I won't remember because
I have such a bad memory. Not only that, but my memory is *terrible*."
Peggy Vincent
me crazy climbing the curtains. The water pistol only had to
be done a few times and then just the sight of it would give
the message.
Mitchell N. Perilstein
Don't use electricity!!! A tiny voltage is enough to kill. We're not
vets and we can't calculate what is small enough.
But have you tried water?
Get a plant sprayer and set it to narrow stream. Wait casually nearby
and open fire the instant the bad she touches it. If this stops
working eventually due to the cat getting resistant, mail me and I'll
tell you how to avoid that.
Luck
---
Mitchell N. Perilstein | mi...@clsi.com | Ask me about software patents
CAD Language Systems Inc | 410-992-5700 x225 | and interface copyrights.
Graham Wilson
>My cat is driving my wife crazy by constantly messing around with the
>venetian blinds in my house and it is almost to the point of "It's
>either her or me". We have tried ignoring here but that doesn't work
>(although if we leave the room, she comes with us). I am *very*
>seriously considering electifying the blinds by running a wire up the
>side touching each horizontal metal strip and connecting the other
>wire to a "mat" made out of tin foil where she (my cat) will be
>standing. I'm considering using a car or motorcycle battery but I
>wan't to be sure I'm not going to injure my cat. Does anybody know
>the right voltage for a cat (or should I just put a fuse on my
>circuit) to be gently shocked from front foot to back foot (or the
>risisance between)?
** We used to have a similar problem but with a neighbours cat that
would come through the cat flap and then piss all over the front
room.
In the end it became so bad they we decided something had to be
done. Thus, for several nights we locked our cat inside and set
a little trap for the other moggie.
I cut out a piece of cardboard and covered it with kitchen foil.
I cut another piece out which I taped to the centre of the cat
flap. However, I left part of it untaped so that it would be
possible to connect a paper-clip to the foil at night.
We placed the piece of cardboard covered foil directly outside
the cat flap and connected one side of the battery to the plate
and the other side to the cat door. I used 2 X 12 volt car
batteries in series to give 24 volts.
When the cat stood on the pad and tried to push the flap open
his wet nose made the connection and a spark jumped from the
aluminium.
We heard the sound of the spark even from inside the house.
I think the whole neighbourhood heard the cat screaming off
down the road.
I think it had a sore nose for a couple of days. However, no
long term damage was caused. However, it never came back in the
garden again.
Perhaps if you try 12 volts intead of 24 volts that might
give your cat a hint.
--
*********************************************************
* Graham Wilson * lsg...@cck.coventry.ac.uk *
* LL.B. Law III * Coventry University *
S8 b+ g- l-- y+ z/ n-- o++ x+ a- u+ v- j++
Theresa C McFarland
>My cat is driving my wife crazy by constantly messing around with the
>venetian blinds in my house and it is almost to the point of "It's
>either her or me". We have tried ignoring here but that doesn't work
>(although if we leave the room, she comes with us). I am *very*
>seriously considering electifying the blinds by running a wire up the
>side touching each horizontal metal strip and connecting the other
>wire to a "mat" made out of tin foil where she (my cat) will be
>standing. I'm considering using a car or motorcycle battery but I
>wan't to be sure I'm not going to injure my cat. Does anybody know
>the right voltage for a cat (or should I just put a fuse on my
>circuit) to be gently shocked from front foot to back foot (or the
>risisance between)?
>
>P.S. This is a serious post. Email is preferred because I don't
>normaly read these groups.
>--
>THANX...Gregg day 214.684.7380 night 214.530.2495 TEXAS NOT CANADA!
PLEASE DON'T DO THIS!!!!
ELECTRICITY IS _VERY DANGEROUS_ .
I'm an electrical engineer and I can't believe you even think about this.
You are suggesting shocking your pet to deter contact with blinds. You
probably don't know what the current will be running through this circuit.
Current (not voltage) kills.
Let me tell you a few things about shock - which is what you are suggesting.
These values are for humans - but do you really want to take the chance?
MacroShock external
0 to 500 microAmps No sensation
0.5 to 5 milliAmps (mA) Sensation Threshold
2 to 10 mA Objectionable pain and muscle contraction
5 to 25 mA Painful. Mechanical injury due to powerful
contractions. Heart and respiratory functions
unaffected. Let go current (impossible to release
contact) occurs at about 16 mA.
25 to 100 mA Respiratory paralysis.
100 to 300 mA Ventricular Fibrillation
> 300 mA Cardiac standstill resulting from depolarization of
heart muscle. Severe tissue destruction by heating.
MicroShock Internal
0 to 10 microAmps Safe for normal heart.
10 to 800 microAmps Ventricular fibrillation threshold.
If you're still with me. You are taking a serious chance on coming
home and finding fried kitty. Not to mention you (or your wife) could
get very hurt setting this up. And WHAT IF YOU FORGET the battery is hooked
up and go to open the blinds? You or your wife could be hurt.
What if you use the wrong wire size and BURN the House down? Is your
insurance paid up? Does is cover this kind of accident?
I definitely do not recommend this!
Michael Covington
the city limits.
--
:- Michael A. Covington internet mcov...@uga.cc.uga.edu : *****
:- Artificial Intelligence Programs phone 706 542-0358 : *********
:- The University of Georgia fax 706 542-0349 : * * *
:- Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI : ** *** **
Joel Kolstad
>In article <C30z0...@news.rich.bnr.ca> you write:
[wants to zap cats playing with the blinds]
>PLEASE DON'T DO THIS!!!!
>
>ELECTRICITY IS _VERY DANGEROUS_ .
Well, yes, and you're probably right that someone who doesn't know much
about it shouldn't be playing with it. However, I would like to point out
that using electricity to zap animals is, in general, a very reasonable
thing to do.
>I'm an electrical engineer and I can't believe you even think about this.
Why not? Go ask Farmer Joe about his electric fence.
>What if you use the wrong wire size and BURN the House down? Is your
>insurance paid up? Does is cover this kind of accident?
Although her insurance wouldn't cover it, "using the wrong size wire" is a
negligible concern when we're talking about 10mA.
>I definitely do not recommend this!
I agree. Go buy a commercial electric fence charger.
---Joel Kolstad
Joel Dunsmore
: (I've also mailed this to the poster, but I think it should be posted).
: Don't use electricity!!! A tiny voltage is enough to kill. We're not
: vets and we can't calculate what is small enough.
But it works so well. I had the same problem with a BIG puppy jumping on
a screen door. The correct thing to use, IMHO, is an electric fence charger.
Voltage doesn't kill, current does. I have personnaly been shocked with
tens of thousands of volts. I suspect you have too. The electric fence
charger I had worked by switching a voltage on one side of a transformer.
The other side was stepped up to at least 3000 volts (I measured it on
my O-scope). I think the voltage pulse was only about 1 msec. The switcher
switched about 5 times/sec. The first time the dog hit it, she got a small
shock, enough to be wary. The second time she brushed at it with her paw
and got nothing (maybe insulation in the pads, or touched between pulses),
so she leaned against it with her body. When she got zapped by that, it
was three times around the yard before she stopped. After that, the screen
door was fine. Note, as a puppy, she was about 30 pounds at the time.
P.S. A battery can kill, even a nine volt one. I read an article, (maybe
urban lore) about a high school kid who moisened his wrists and hooked up
a nine volt battery to prove it would not be lethal, ... he was wrong. I
believe as little as 20 milliamps is lethal.
Sarah Bernier
There is a device called SCAT mat. It is basically a mat wired
to deliver a static electric charge when kitty touches it. You can
vary the discharge intensity. I have seen them advertised in cat
supply magazines. A friend of mine used this device to break her cat
of "countertop cruising" while she was at work. The mildest setting
is not unlike the static discharge from petting a cat.
--- Sarah Bernier
good, Conan - good!
}
}P.S. A battery can kill, even a nine volt one. I read an article, (maybe
}urban lore) about a high school kid who moisened his wrists and hooked up
}a nine volt battery to prove it would not be lethal, ... he was wrong. I
}believe as little as 20 milliamps is lethal.
Urban Lore.
You can test a 9v battery by putting the terminals against your TONGUE.
--
Tony J. Podrasky Awh, you guys THIRSTY after all that singin' ?
San Diego , Ca OK - KOOLAID for everybody!!! - Rev. Jim Jones
to...@convex.com
QSL? QRU? QRZ? QLZ? QFA?
Mike Linnig
charger designed for deterring pets. FOR GODS SAKE don't make one yourself, it
is just to dangerous.
Another approach I have used inside my house involves a small battery powered
infrared motion detector with built in chime/siren. I bought one of these at
Target for about $15 and it works great. A single 9v batteries last several
weeks.
Take one of these and place it where the cat will travel. The Siren is very
loud and should scare the heck out of the cat.
--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +
Mike Linnig, Texas Instruments Inc. | 97.43% of all statistics are made |
Phone: (214) 575-3597 CALL: N5QAW | up; most of them (83.6 percent) |
Internet: mike....@dseg.ti.com | are wrong. |
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Michael Covington
only for very short bursts (about once per second), not continuously.
That very much reduces the hazard. The animal gets one jolt, then has
about a second to get away before experiencing any further shock.
GUYNN, RICHARD CARL
Forget the electric stuff. Buy a water gun. After awhile it deters the
kitty, and personally, I think its much more fun.
Rick
William Reiken
>
> I agree. Go buy a commercial electric fence charger.
>
Go buy a type of blind that the cat cannot damage or get hurt on.
It is safe and no long lasting problems.
Will...
Jacki Bricker
I've *tried* the water gun thing (she says, dismayed). All the cats do is run
when they see it in my hand; so I can't even spray them to deter the behavior.
The problem is, all they think is that bad behavior is ok so long as I'm
not around.
-Jacki bricker
Linus Surguy (x5384)
>In article <1mug67...@umbc4.umbc.edu> sa...@umbc.edu (Sarah Bernier) writes:
>> An electric fence shock! ouch!
>> There is a device called SCAT mat. It is basically a mat wired
>> to deliver a static electric charge when kitty touches it. You can
>>
>
>
> I'd LOVE to get one, to stop my guys from "countertop cruising",
I dont know if I am understanding this correctly, - I dont know the term
@countertop crusing", but surely it isnt that bad anyway!
>tried the water gun, that's not the problem; they *know* it's wrong, that's why
>they do it during the middle of the night and when I'm not home. I have to
>hide every scrap of food, but still to no avail. I've tried rigging
>traps" (like a big bucket of water: i.e., if Bart or Clyde go anywhere
>
> -Jacki Bricker
if that is where they want to be, let them be there - just take away whatever
items it is they are being naughty with - surely that would be a better solution! - our two Burmillias are real bitches when they want to be, but we have delt
with most things with a) water pistols and b) simply not allowing them to have
acess to anything really naughty!'
Linus (l...@mfltd.co.uk )
JULIE
that way. He or she will just be annoyed. Perhaps I'm too tolerant, but
I've always just accepted my kitties playing in everything that I don't want
them too play in is just part of having cats in the house. I mean, I can't
make a meal without cat hair in it. It's like an ingredient now. I should
include it on my recipies! :)
Julie
Joel Kolstad
>
> HOW SICK CAN YOU GET! How would you like 2 cat batteries wired to you
> tongue - as that is what it would have been like for that cat ?
I really don't think I'd mind, if it were obvious how to avoid it after one
"hit".
> If you have/had a child - would you think it right/ok to wire up the
> fridge to the mains if he/she couldnt wait until breakfast to eat??
See the Simpsons episode from a few weeks ago, where Lisa tries to
determine whether or not Bart is smarter than a gerbil.
:-)
> If you had left a mail (postal) address, I would have already
> telephoned the RSPCA/Cats protection league etc...
And I bet you belong to PETA, don't you?
In my opinion, if a cat repeatedly came back to your house and took a leak
over your carpet, you'd have a right to shoot the silly thing dead. And
don't get me wrong -- I really love animals. Giving it a shock that it
will remember is a lot better the shooting it!
---Joel Kolstad
Kevin Schnitzius
> We placed the piece of cardboard covered foil directly outside
> the cat flap and connected one side of the battery to the plate
> and the other side to the cat door. I used 2 X 12 volt car
> batteries in series to give 24 volts.
Never, ever use a car battery like this. A wrench dropped across
a single car battery will melt. We're talking a half inch thick
forged steel wrench.
Car batteries can produce 70+ amps -- enough to serious maim through
explosive voltage discharge if not instant death.
That's right, fried exit wound.
If this fuck was my neighbor and I found out he pulled a stunt like
that, I'd have every gov't agency on his butt, not to mention my
lawyer.
Can to guess what sort of liability he be in for if a child got hurt?
--
Kevin Schnitzius
kschn...@encore.com
good, Conan - good!
}In article <1MAR1993...@zeus.tamu.edu>, rcg...@zeus.tamu.edu (GUYNN, RICHARD CARL) writes...
}>[shock stuff deleted]
}>
}make a meal without cat hair in it. It's like an ingredient now. I should
}include it on my recipies! :)
}Julie
I've heard of "hair of the dog", but hair of the cat? :-)
1 egg, beaten
1 cup flour
2 TBL sugar
1 firball
Jared Dahl
What's wrong with a plain, old-fashioned squirt gun? It has
cured my cats of many bad habits. Kinda fun, too.
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
| Jared Dahl | "My heart is human, my blood is boiling, |
| Systems Programmer | my brain IBM" |
| IBM - Rochester, MN | -- STYX, "Mr. Roboto" |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Opinions expressed are mine, not my employer's.
Don't send e-mail - I won't get it.
mr...@stsci.edu
>>
> Are you sure that the cat didn't try to mark his territory by
> urinating on the pad? Completion of the circuit by the liquid
> would certainly provide a startling experience.
>
There is an episode of "Ren & Stimpy" in which Stimpy and a friend
play a game called "Don't Whiz on the Electric Fence." You can guess
what happened...
Ted_Euge...@cup.portal.com
ignition coil... I just installed a 'SureShocker' that emits a continous
charge at probably an audio frequency. (of course I have been too lazy to
scope it.)
Bye... Ted..
Linus Surguy (x5384)
>In article <1993Mar2.1...@mfltd.co.uk> l...@mfltd.co.uk (Linus Surguy (x5384)) writes:
>> If you had left a mail (postal) address, I would have already
>> telephoned the RSPCA/Cats protection league etc...
>
>And I bet you belong to PETA, don't you?
Dunno actually what PETA is, dont think we have it here!
>
>In my opinion, if a cat repeatedly came back to your house and took a leak
>over your carpet, you'd have a right to shoot the silly thing dead. And
>don't get me wrong -- I really love animals. Giving it a shock that it
>will remember is a lot better the shooting it!
>
> ---Joel Kolstad
I can understand the feeling seriously pissed off, but the simple solution
there would have been to buy an ID-tag cat-flap, end of story!
Linus
Joern Yngve Dahl-Stamnes
>In article <1mug67...@umbc4.umbc.edu>, sa...@umbc.edu (Sarah Bernier) writes:
>|> An electric fence shock! ouch!
>|> There is a device called SCAT mat. It is basically a mat wired
>|> to deliver a static electric charge when kitty touches it. You can
>|> vary the discharge intensity. I have seen them advertised in cat
>|> supply magazines. A friend of mine used this device to break her cat
>|> of "countertop cruising" while she was at work. The mildest setting
>|> is not unlike the static discharge from petting a cat.
>|>
>|> --- Sarah Bernier
>
>What's wrong with a plain, old-fashioned squirt gun? It has
>cured my cats of many bad habits. Kinda fun, too.
If the problem is to keep the cats away from your house so that they don't
keep you awake during the night (they make a h**l of a noice during the
nighttime here in Norway), you have to fight them on theire terms.
Cats use chemical signal elements to signal that this territory is mine!
You have to do the same. How to do it? Go out and be very nice to the cat
and try to catch it. Let it feel the smell of mustard and then put some
mustart on/in/near the cats ass and let it go (whell, it will run like
h**l). Now the cat have learned that mustard is something very very very
nasty things. Next, put some mustart at strategic points around your house,
and the cat will find another place to yell at night!
Note, I have not tried this... yet. I only write what I hav been told by
others who have tried it.
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
* I went back to my mother, * Joern Yngve Dahl-Stamnes *
* I said, "I'm crazy ma, help me!" * University of Trondheim *
* She said, "I know how it feels son, * The Norwegian Institute of Tech. *
* 'cause it runs in the family." * Division of Physical Electronics *
* - The Who, Quadrophenia * e-mail: da...@fhydra.dnet.unit.no *
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Ann Adamcik
>... Perhaps I'm too tolerant, but
>I've always just accepted my kitties playing in everything that I don't want
>them too play in is just part of having cats in the house.
I agree. Cats have their own nature. They play, they're curious, they
get into things. You can 'train' a cat to some extent, but if you want
a pet that doesn't act like a cat, get a hamster. Otherwise, save the
training for the really important things and lighten up on the rest.
If you're prone to power struggles with animals, you shouldn't have a
cat. Try a goldfish instead.
The world really isn't going to end because the cat plays with the blinds.
Honest.
-Ann
Marino Ladavac
Sure. But the current path is very short and localized - through your TONGUE!
It misses any vital organs - whereas the kid might have attached one electrode
to one hand, the other to the other (horrible English, ain't it.)
It isn't necessarily the matter of current only, but also the current *path*
through the body.
In the other hand, all this might be hogwash ...
Alby.
(All Disclaimers Apply)
Dave Medin
|> In article <C30z0...@news.rich.bnr.ca> you write:
|> >My cat is driving my wife crazy by constantly messing around with the
|> >venetian blinds in my house and it is almost to the point of "It's
|> >either her or me". We have tried ignoring here but that doesn't work
|> >I'm considering using a car or motorcycle battery but I
|> >want to be sure I'm not going to injure my cat. Does anybody know
|> >the right voltage for a cat (or should I just put a fuse on my
|> >circuit) to be gently shocked from front foot to back foot (or the
|> >resistance between)?
|>
|> PLEASE DON'T DO THIS!!!!
|>
|> ELECTRICITY IS _VERY DANGEROUS_ .
Don't worry about being electrocuted by a motorcycle battery. It won't happen
as the current through you (or your cat) from a 12 volt source is below the
threshhold of sensation. The voltage needs to be stepped up to create
the desired effect.
|> I'm an electrical engineer and I can't believe you even think about this.
I am and I do (for another cat discipline problem). Electric fencers and
training collars have been using mild shock for a long time...of course
they are not manufactured as hobby projects either...
|> You are suggesting shocking your pet to deter contact with blinds. You
|> probably don't know what the current will be running through this circuit.
No, but it can be figured out and limited easily.
|> Current (not voltage) kills.
Right on the above, but you can limit the current with series
resistance (the cat itself is about a 20K - 100K but assume a short for the
purposes of current limiting). The voltage source should have a
series resistance high enough to limit current to 5 milliamps or
less. This produced a reaction by my cat (getting into where she was not
supposed to be) that was as if she had smelled something she didn't like
rather than a violent shock. It worked. I used an old corona power supply
from a dead copy machine. Within a week, she never went where she was not
welcome any more.
You need a supply in the range of 600 to 1kV, WITH CURRENT LIMITING SERIES
RESISTANCE ON THE OUTPUT AS MENTIONED ABOVE. If you cannot get
high-voltage resistors from a surplus/hobby place and have to use
the standard resistors as found at Radio Shack, make sure your series
resistor chain contains at least one resistor per 300 volts of
source voltage. If you don't know how to figure the proper resistance
(both value and required power), my advice is to get a fencer (below).
It will be safer for you and your pet than experimenting.
Also, make sure to insulate all connections to the supply before
after the resistor. A 1/4" covering of silicone sealant usually
works pretty well indoors. I'd fuse the primary side of the supply
if runs from 110 VAC, but not for shock protection as you won't find
a fuse that small. The fuse protects agains electrical failure and
fire hazard.
A supply above 2 kV will be surer to shock on casual contact, but
the voltage on the blinds will begin to ionize air around them and
attract dust and dirt by the loads. Plus, stray capacitance between
the resistor and the blinds will allow a shock beyond what you intend.
A He-Ne laser supply is not a good idea. They are designed to produce
an initial voltage from 4 - 8 kV to fire the tube, which could possibly
arc to unintended places and create unpleasant side effects. However,
they are usually inherently self-limiting to around 5 milliamperes.
|> If you're still with me. You are taking a serious chance on coming
|> home and finding fried kitty. Not to mention you (or your wife) could
|> get very hurt setting this up. And WHAT IF YOU FORGET the battery
|> is hooked up and go to open the blinds? You or your wife could be hurt.
Again, a motorcycle battery isn't going to hurt you. And a properly
current-limited high voltage supply won't either. I might
suggest a low-powered electric fencer used to discourage dogs from
digging under fences. I've seen them at local hardware stores for
about $40. The fencer has the advantage that it is periodic, therefore
if you grab it, you can let loose between jolts.
|> What if you use the wrong wire size and BURN the House down? Is your
|> insurance paid up? Does is cover this kind of accident?
This statement by the poster is a bit extreme. Her shock level tables
were good information, though.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Medin Phone: (205) 730-3169 (w)
SSD--Networking (205) 837-1174 (h)
Intergraph Corp.
M/S GD3004 Internet: dtm...@catbyte.b30.ingr.com
Huntsville, AL 35894 UUCP: ...uunet!ingr!b30!catbyte!dtmedin
******* Everywhere You Look (at least around my office) *******
* The opinions expressed here are mine (or those of my machine)
Anthony S. Pelliccio
> In article 2MAR1993...@gamma.is.tcu.edu, feue...@gamma.is.tcu.edu (JUL
> IE)
>>... Perhaps I'm too tolerant, but
>>I've always just accepted my kitties playing in everything that I don't want
>>them too play in is just part of having cats in the house.
>
> I agree. Cats have their own nature. They play, they're curious, they
> get into things. You can 'train' a cat to some extent, but if you want
> a pet that doesn't act like a cat, get a hamster. Otherwise, save the
> training for the really important things and lighten up on the rest.
> If you're prone to power struggles with animals, you shouldn't have a
> cat. Try a goldfish instead.
>
> The world really isn't going to end because the cat plays with the blinds.
> Honest.
>
Exactly! Cats are kind of like having kids around. They're always
underfoot, doing things they're not supposed to, etc. But a smart cat
person knows ways around these things and realizes how the cat
functions. Then you make minor adjustments and voila! You and your cat
are best buddies. Ie. Mine likes to chew things like wires, cables, etc.
So every month I buy or cut (if I have extra) about a 3 ft. length of
nice thick coaxial cable that he can chew to his hearts content. A
rubber doggie bone or two does the trick also.
Tony
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Anthony S. Pelliccio, n1mpq/aa // A man who feels sees life as //
-- system @ garlic.sbs.com // a tragedy, a man who thinks //
-----------------------------------// sees life as a comedy. (This //
-- Flame Retardent Sysadmin // was in my fortune cookie!) //
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-- This is a calm .sig! --
--------------------------
Eric H. Taylor
>[...]
>shouldn't expose your cat to it -- when I wonder if a fence is wired to
>a shocker, I use a long blade of grass, take it in my hand, touch the
>fence with the other end. Causes a very light tickling sensation).
>
>Peter Herweijer
A better method for testing electric fences is to grab the wire with
INSULATED handle pliers. The pliers will vibrate and you won't get
zapped. The grass method is less reliable, and irritating.
----
ET "A Force of Nature"
----
Milton Peter Nasiopoulos
spotlight with a transformer wired to several battery powered water guns.
At night when kitty comes by, The water guns will fire in all directions
and soak the @#$!%&.
milt.
Brian Peterson
*In article <1993Mar4.1...@rcvie.co.at> lan_...@rcvie.co.at (Marino Ladavac) writes:
*
* It misses any vital organs - whereas the kid might have attached one
* electrode to one hand, the other to the other
*
*According to one medical book 20mA is sufficient to kill if 20mA runs
*through hart. I think 20mA is not lethal in any other organs. 20mA
*running from one hand to the other is not lethal. Period.
That should read "is not lethal, Comma, unless, of course, the current
runs through the heart." The heart IS between the hands,
electrically. Have you heard the safety rule about keeping one hand
in your pocket while probing live circuits?
--
--> Brian Peterson, bri...@netcom.com <--
In order to remember your dreams,
you must think of them as if they were little kittens.
-- King Missile
Harri Haba Suomalainen
It misses any vital organs - whereas the kid might have attached one
electrode to one hand, the other to the other
According to one medical book 20mA is sufficient to kill if 20mA runs
through hart. I think 20mA is not lethal in any other organs. 20mA
running from one hand to the other is not lethal. Period.
--
--
Harri Suomalainen Harri.Su...@hut.fi ha...@vipunen.hut.fi
Kenneth Hall
>In article <1993Mar1.2...@infonode.ingr.com> tcmc...@b24a.b24a.ingr.com (Theresa C McFarland) writes:
>>In article <C30z0...@news.rich.bnr.ca> you write:
>
>
>>I'm an electrical engineer and I can't believe you even think about this.
>
>
O.K. folks lets get some of the facts correct on the situation here.
For the concern of the homeowner with the tattered blinds. Yes, you
could get a fence charger and attach it to the blinds. This is
basicly a converter which takes the power from the outlet and
transformes the electricity into a lower level pulse that is an
annoyance and will give you a start but other than a good insult there
is no injury other than to the ego. For the concern of the E.E.
studier, electric fence chargers have been in use for many o' years, I
know that the one at my parents house is over fifteen years old. They
got it and wired the back yard to help deter our dogs from digging
under the fence to play with the neighbors. It worked rather well,
and from personal experience, will give you a start but not hurt you,
I hit the thing all of the time when I was working in the yard.
Rusty
Raup II James R
>: In article <C38Ap...@srgenprp.sr.hp.com> jo...@sr.hp.com (Joel Dunsmore) writes:
>: }
>: }P.S. A battery can kill, even a nine volt one. I read an article, (maybe
>: }urban lore) about a high school kid who moisened his wrists and hooked up
>: }a nine volt battery to prove it would not be lethal, ... he was wrong. I
>: }believe as little as 20 milliamps is lethal.
>:
>It isn't necessarily the matter of current only, but also the current *path*
>through the body.
>
>In the other hand, all this might be hogwash ...
>
>Alby.
>(All Disclaimers Apply)
Some sort of Electrostatic generating device is needed for this
application. I remember building a Van DeGraaf (sp?) generator in 9th
grade that would throw an arc 4-5 inches. Thousands of volts, but static
discharges are safe due to the fact that they travel the skin's surface.
I remember about 25 of us holding each others wrists in a chain, then the
teach walked up to the generator and ZAP! We all jumped, and it was the
same as if only one person got zapped.
Venetian blnds pose some interesting problems,, They are painted, so the
kitty won't get zapped with a small DC charge,, furthermore, I doubt if
all of the 'flaps' are electrically connected.
I'm not proposing the use of a Van DeGraaf generator (the motor noise
would keep kitty away), there are other ways of generating static
electricity.
-Jack
--
Jack Raup, Telecomm Tech Bucknell University
(jr...@bucknell.edu) Lewisburg, PA
Andrew P. Herdman
>In article <HABA.93M...@lesti.hut.fi> ha...@lesti.hut.fi (Harri "Haba" Suomalainen) writes:
>*In article <1993Mar4.1...@rcvie.co.at> lan_...@rcvie.co.at (Marino Ladavac) writes:
>*
>* It misses any vital organs - whereas the kid might have attached one
>* electrode to one hand, the other to the other
>*
>*According to one medical book 20mA is sufficient to kill if 20mA runs
>*through hart. I think 20mA is not lethal in any other organs. 20mA
>*running from one hand to the other is not lethal. Period.
>
>That should read "is not lethal, Comma, unless, of course, the current
>runs through the heart." The heart IS between the hands,
>electrically. Have you heard the safety rule about keeping one hand
>in your pocket while probing live circuits?
>
You people have been running on about this electrocuting kitty for weeks
now. Here's a real simple answer to all your problems. First of all,
you water gun people, forget it, your kitty will really begin to dislike
you when you start zapping it with a water gun. What you need is an
alternating voltage supply of about 80-100 volts, around 1khz, and max
1mA. It won't actually hurt kitty, you or a bug for that matter. But
it's uncomfortable to touch (alternating current just makes you feel
uncomfortable at that level) Kitty probably won't pull 1mA, how many
paws can a cat throw on the blind at once anyway! I've built similar
joy buzzers using tiny homemade x-formers, running off simple watch
batteries.
Andrew
And their isn't enough power in a watch batter to kill a germ.
--
apo...@r-node.hub.org. - No mail exceeding 15k each and 30k daily
Andrew_...@magic-bbs.corp.apple.com - Keep it to 25k chunks eh!
If you're not here, and you're not there, then you don't exist
Graham Wilson
>In article <1993Mar2.1...@doug.cae.wisc.edu> kol...@cae.wisc.edu (Joel Kolstad) writes:
>>In article <1993Mar2.1...@mfltd.co.uk> l...@mfltd.co.uk (Linus Surguy (x5384)) writes:
>>> If you had left a mail (postal) address, I would have already
>>> telephoned the RSPCA/Cats protection league etc...
** Oh please do be serious. It was a 24 volt shock - I didn't plug it into
the national grid !
If this cat's welfare worries you so much I am sure that it's current
owners would be more than happy to give it to you - They hate the damn
thing... That's providing you don't mind it pissing all over your floor.
--
*********************************************************
* Graham Wilson * lsg...@cck.coventry.ac.uk *
* LL.B. Law III * Coventry University *
S8 b+ g- l-- y+ z/ n-- o++ x+ a- u+ v- j++
Mary Papp
Oh ho ho, this is funny. Here comes humans who do not know about the motion
sensor. Walk by blinds (that were once safe to look out of) and gets
blasted by water.
Oh I got such a laugh. Thanks
Mary and Slash
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mary Papp: Z/Max Computer Solutions 8287 Loop Road Baldwinsville, NY 13027
ma...@zmax.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
RUSMISEL JASON DIRK
This thread has reminded me of a question I have about powering 'electric
blinds' and devices like stun-guns from batteries. The device usually
requires a very high voltage to be effective. How is this voltage
generated from two AA batteries for example? I guess my question
is about DC to DC traers. Do they exist? What are they? How do
they work?
Jason Rusmisel
University of British Columbia
David Thomas
>This thread has reminded me of a question I have about powering 'electric
>blinds' and devices like stun-guns from batteries. The device usually
>requires a very high voltage to be effective. How is this voltage
>generated from two AA batteries for example? I guess my question
>is about DC to DC traers. Do they exist? What are they? How do
>they work?
The Invisible Fence, the Scat Mat, and other zappers including the Taser,
operate by pulsing current through a coil. This is not quite the same as
a DC-DC converter. A coil, technically a step-up transformer, is used to
increase the peak voltage from pulses produced by opening and closing a
switch.
(A) 1:100
____/ _____ _________
| | | |
----- )||( |
3V --- (B) )||( (C) |
----- )||( (D)
--- )||( |
| | | |
|___________| |_________|
As a transformer increases the voltage, it proportionally decreases
the available current, so the resulting output is relatively harmless,
*IF* designed correctly. For example, if you have two AA batteries in
series, you have a voltage of about 3 volts, and these batteries would
be capable of delivering, lets say, 100 milliamps into a low
resistance load. Now, your skin has high resistance, so you aren't
going to feel anything while holding AA batteries between your thumb
and fingers. However, if you pass the current from the battery
through a coil (B), and pulse it on and off with a switch (A),
you can step up the voltage of the pulses by placing another coil (C)
in the same magnetic field. The voltage will be increased by the
ratio of the number of turns in the two coils, but the current will
be decreased by the same factor. If you complete the circuit, by
touching the two wires at (D), you might be exposed to 300 volts (peak)
but at a maximum current of 1 milliamp. This would be uncomfortable,
but harmless. The output voltage is sufficient to overcome skin
resistance, but the output current is limited to a safe value.
Personally, I don't like the idea of using this as a training device
for animals or humans. I don't think many people would consider
putting one of these collars on children. I don't think that it's
any more justifiable on a dog or cat. I've posted this description
here simply because I had seen misinformation circulating about
voltages and currents, and because I wouldn't want anyone to invent
something even more dangerous.
--
David Thomas Texas Instruments (da...@wotangate.sc.ti.com) (713)-274-2347
Mike Linnig
When we had a problem with kids cutting through our yard I thought about
hooking up a infrared motion detector to our yard sprinkler system.
Never did it but I bet it would be a pretty good deterrent while the ambient
temperature was below 75 degrees.
--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +
Mike Linnig, Texas Instruments Inc. | 97.43% of all statistics are made |
Phone: (214) 575-3597 CALL: N5QAW | up; most of them (83.6 percent) |
Internet: mike....@dseg.ti.com | are wrong. |
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Pete Keyes
:
: It misses any vital organs - whereas the kid might have attached one
: electrode to one hand, the other to the other
:
: According to one medical book 20mA is sufficient to kill if 20mA runs
: through hart. I think 20mA is not lethal in any other organs. 20mA
: running from one hand to the other is not lethal. Period.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
First off, running from one hand to the other the current would run
thru the heart.
Secondly, try grabbing hold of the output of a television flyback transformer.
The average current from one is only 10 to 15 ma, BUT, if your other hand is
grabbing the chasis of the tv, I don't think you'll be getting up afterwards.
Don't Do the above. At the very least it will be unpleasent, wors't case yer
dead.
: Harri Suomalainen Harri.Su...@hut.fi ha...@vipunen.hut.fi
Adrian Collins
>This thread has reminded me of a question I have about powering 'electric
>blinds' and devices like stun-guns from batteries. The device usually
>requires a very high voltage to be effective. How is this voltage
>generated from two AA batteries for example? I guess my question
>is about DC to DC traers. Do they exist? What are they? How do
>they work?
The high voltages are produced by using an oscillator to produce an AC current
which is usually fed through a small transformer to step the voltage up. To
further increase the voltage a capacitor-diode ladder can be used.
A good example of this is simple air ioniser circuits which can usually be
found in electronics magazines. These usually have a nice big current limiting
resistor on the output so that if somebody does touch the emittor no harm is
done. Even still people with pacemakers are very succeptable to even very
small currents.
Cheers,
Adrian
--
Adrian Collins, MCC Network Unit, The University, Manchester M13 9PL, UK
(061)-275-6009 or for those of the computer age: a...@mcc.ac.uk
"No good opera plot can be sensible, for people do not sing when they are