Free Feeding vs. Mealtime
Damaeus
may prevent certain cancers or other diseases. Well, we've always been
able to free-feed the cats. Just pour some food in a dispenser once a week
and there's always a nice food supply available for nibbling throughout the
day. The cats were always sleek, slender, trim and healthy looking, just
as they should be.
Got the kitten spayed. Ever since, she's been gaining weight and now she's
probably doubled in size. She's quite rotund. We've tried to start
portioning out the food, but kittens are supposed to have a supply of food
on hand all the time since they grow so quickly. But we put food out, and
the fat one wants to run and gobble it up before the others have a chance.
We put a little out for the "big girl" and she looks at her bowl, then
looks up at us like she's saying, "Well, is that all you're going to put in
there?!?!?!"
Then there's the small dish of food and water I keep in my bedroom for the
youngest kitten -- about ten weeks old or so. If the big girl sees me
going to my room, she flies down the hall and sticks her nose up against
the door. As soon as it opens, she darts in the room and makes the curve
to get to the food. She plops down in front of the bowl and eats away.
She's quite tubby now. I'm sure if I shaved her down, I'd find stretch
marks. If she ever decides to lay down on the younger kitten, that poor
thing's a goner.
Well, the whole point of my post ... People talk about the cruelty of
having a cat declawed. I think it's just as cruel to have their sex organs
ripped out of their bodies and I'm not having another cat "broken" as long
as I live. Prevent cancer by having your cat's reproductive system
mutilated? I think not. It's probably some scare tactic promoted by
animal shelters to control cat populations. I think Hitler promoted
sterilization of those unfit to reproduce. I don't want to be known as the
Hitler of the feline world.
And what's the tradeoff? Okay, so even if you do prevent some kind of
cancer, your cat could end up with diabetes or other obesity-related
illnesses. And who knows what other effects this has on the animals.
Certain hormones are bound to be missing from the body. We do have one
male and he was fixed as a requirement for adoption, and since he's not
through growing, he hasn't fattened up. But I'm curious to see if once he
gets through lengthening, if he starts fattening up like the 1.5-year-old
did.
I think cancer is probably caused by nasty, chemical-laden tap water most
people give to their pets. I give mine distilled water. I'll inform you
of their condition in about fifteen or twenty years. I don't drink tap
water, and I certainly don't expect my pets to drink that smelly swill...
especially since it's been brown the last few weeks while the water
department works on some problem they're having.
Damaeus
Crdamz
with the usual little bit of paunch where their breast area is. They do have
free access to their food at all times, and they just eat a few pieces at a
time when the mood strikes.
My friend's female, however, has topped the scales at 15 pounds at one
point, and, although she is quite active and playful, she is quite a rotund
little girl.
This same friend's male, on the other hand, is EXTREMELY sleek. He looks
like one of those plastic "cat" banks that goes a little out at the shoulder,
in at the waist, and slightly out again around the lower legs. VERY sleek,
maybe even too thin, but he eats well and is very healthy.
These comparisons between our animals got us to talking, and we suspect
that the time at which we got everyone fixed may have something to do with it.
Both of my girls got fixed AFTER their first heat, but my friend's female was
fixed before hers.
Maybe all of her growth hormones went toward growing HER instead of toward
her sexual maturation? Her tom cat was fixed after he began to mature, and
although he is so sleek, he still weighs 11 pounds--his body is large and if he
had a little more weight on him he would be quite someone to contend with!
And every one of these cats is in-doors-only, so you really can't say that
activity level has anything to do with the great varience in their weights!
Damaeus
17:16:51 GMT:
> These comparisons between our animals got us to talking, and we suspect
> that the time at which we got everyone fixed may have something to do with it.
> Both of my girls got fixed AFTER their first heat, but my friend's female was
> fixed before hers.
Okay, the older female was fixed after she'd been in heat several times.
In fact, she was fixed DURING her latest "heat period".
The second cat, the male, was fixed before his first
whatever-the-male-equivalent-of-female-heat is.
The third cat, the 9-10 month old female hasn't been fixed and probably
won't be.
Amanda Janke
house because my cat needs special food that makes my brother's kitten sick.
His two cats get normal cat food. They get fed twice a day and the food is
hidden while everyone's at work. My cat was a stray and thinks it's a major
crisis to not have constant access to food. He pays me back by waking me up
at around 5am more often than not!
The only cat that is overweight in the house is my brother's older cat from
being free-fed before he got the kitten. She has yet to lose any weight
because she's not playful whatsoever.
And as far as getting your cats fixed, I'm all for it. All our cats are
fixed. I think it's a lot easier to control what they eat than to have the
males spray, the females yowl into the wee hours of the morning, or heaven
forbid, end up with unwanted kittens. Two of our cats were strays, the other
my brother got from his boss. There's plenty of irresponsible pet owners out
there without having the responsible ones accidentally adding to the
problem.
Just my two cents...I'm new here!
-Amanda
"Damaeus" <no-...@hotmail.invalid.net> wrote in message
news:f62hc0ll1ukth2qnu...@4ax.com...
Laura R.
ma...@hotmail.invalid.net) said,
> Now we have a predicament. They say that spaying or neutering your cats
> may prevent certain cancers or other diseases. Well, we've always been
> able to free-feed the cats. Just pour some food in a dispenser once a week
> and there's always a nice food supply available for nibbling throughout the
> day. The cats were always sleek, slender, trim and healthy looking, just
> as they should be.
>
> Got the kitten spayed. Ever since, she's been gaining weight and now she's
> probably doubled in size. She's quite rotund. We've tried to start
> portioning out the food, but kittens are supposed to have a supply of food
> on hand all the time since they grow so quickly. But we put food out, and
> the fat one wants to run and gobble it up before the others have a chance.
>
*one* cat who is, and you use this as justification to not neuter or
spay future cats? That's some weak logic.
Laura
--
Experience is the name every one gives to their mistakes.
-Oscar Wilde
MIKE
water is not a good idea. It would be better to buy bottles of spring
water.
-MIKE
Tracy
the smaller one and 10.1 lbs for the larger one. One was spayed before
the first heat and one wasn't. One is a finicky and genteel eater -
the other, a former feral, gobbles, but they eat about the same, just
on very different time schedules. Of course, they're indoor/outdoor
cats, so they get enough exercise. I suspect the larger one might get
a bit tubby if she didn't move her behind all day.
But honestly, it's a combination of their build, their metabolism,
their lifestyle, their emotional issues with food, and their diet.
Just like people.
I suppose the fact that they're too bonkers when in heat to eat at all
might have a slimming effect, but it's sort of like reverting to
psychosis as a dietary mechanism.
If a cat is fat, feed it less and exercise it more. It's not rocket
science.
Cheryl
<no-...@hotmail.invalid.net> artfully composed this message
within <news:f62hc0ll1ukth2qnu...@4ax.com> on 10 Jun
2004:
> Well, the whole point of my post ... People talk about the
> cruelty of having a cat declawed. I think it's just as cruel to
> have their sex organs ripped out of their bodies and I'm not
> having another cat "broken" as long as I live.
<snip>
> And what's the tradeoff? Okay, so even if you do prevent some
> kind of cancer, your cat could end up with diabetes or other
> obesity-related illnesses.
I think you are over-reacting. Some cats are just piggies, and gain
weight the same way that some people do. Tendency to over-eat is
much easier to rectify than a cat who is perpetually horny, and
trying to fight off raging hormones and who has wandering
tendencies because s/he needs to procreate or protect its
territory. Also, it is a proven fact that removal of the sex organs
decreases the risk of certain types of cancer. I have two cats out
of three that would eat all day if I let them. One I did let years
ago free-feed and he got very ill and very fat. I've learned a lot
since then, the same way I would if it was a human I was trying to
help. My cats have set feeding times, and several small meals
throughout the day when I can (yes, I work, and long hours, too!
not to mention a long commute). When I'm not home, they sleep (I've
actually set up a web cam a couple of times for educational
purposes) when I'm not home, and weekends when I am, the meals are
scheduled differently than during the week. Please reconsider your
no-neutering stance.
--
Cheryl
Cheryl
<news:i4hhc0d0dap63fask...@4ax.com> on 10 Jun 2004:
> The second cat, the male, was fixed before his first
> whatever-the-male-equivalent-of-female-heat is.
Sexual maturity. It would help to learn the terminology and
physiology of an animal you are responsible for.
--
Cheryl
Damaeus
2004 20:03:13 -0400:
> I can understand you not wanting to use your tap water but distilled
> water is not a good idea. It would be better to buy bottles of spring
> water.
What's wrong with distilled water? Especially when some bottled spring
waters are fluoridated, and that's basically saying that it's poisoned.
Fluoride, used in rat poison and when shipped to your local water supply,
has a 'poison' logo on the side of the tanker truck, isn't good for anyone,
I don't think.
Damaeus
on Fri, 11 Jun 2004 17:06:09 GMT:
> Fresh from an Iraqi prisoner interrogation Damaeus <no-...@hotmail.invalid.net> smirked:
>
> >What's wrong with distilled water? Especially when some bottled spring
> >waters are fluoridated, and that's basically saying that it's poisoned.
> >Fluoride, used in rat poison and when shipped to your local water supply,
> >has a 'poison' logo on the side of the tanker truck, isn't good for anyone,
> >I don't think.
>
> Water is poison, if you drink too much of it.
Then why make it worse by adding fluoride?
Laura R.
ma...@hotmail.invalid.net) said,
> > I can understand you not wanting to use your tap water but distilled
> > water is not a good idea. It would be better to buy bottles of spring
> > water.
>
> What's wrong with distilled water? Especially when some bottled spring
> waters are fluoridated, and that's basically saying that it's poisoned.
> Fluoride, used in rat poison and when shipped to your local water supply,
> has a 'poison' logo on the side of the tanker truck, isn't good for anyone,
> I don't think.
>
>
minerals that need to be in the water that a cat drinks. I've not
found a study that validates this, myself, but if anybody knows of
one, I'd love to read it.
MIKE
quotes". You will read that distilled water is harmful to your health.
Bottled spring water, if it contains fluoride, will say so on the label.
-MIKE
Ashley
"Never anonymous Bud" <new...@katxyzkave.net> wrote in message
news:fmbkc05slqnkc2l01...@4ax.com...
>
> for dozens of years without any noticeable side effects.
>
Rubbish. They have one noticeable side-effect: better teeth.
But anyway, this is completely OT for this ng. How about those who are
interested take it somewhere else.
Damaeus
12 Jun 2004 11:24:10 +1200:
> Rubbish. They have one noticeable side-effect: better teeth.
Better than what? Than this?
http://www.healthmantra.com/ypb/apr01/fluorosis.htm
Irish Medical Journal Confirms Flouride Damage
http://www.voice.buz.org/mailarchive/msg00026.html
Fluoride damage to children's teeth
http://www.fluoride.org.uk/ausfnews/novdec99/fluoride_damage_to_children.htm
We fluoridate water in this country in at least half the cities. I wonder
why as people get older, their teeth start looking like something they dug
up out of a pond, if they have any teeth left, that is.
When I was a kid, my dentist had me take a fluoride rinse for like 30 or 60
seconds. Worst time of my life. And nothing tasted right for about six to
eight months following that. My taste buds were essentially fried in that
short amount of time.
> But anyway, this is completely OT for this ng. How about those who are
> interested take it somewhere else.
I don't think it's off topic. I'm giving my cats distilled water because I
think it's healthier. If we can come to a conclusion about whether pure
H20 is better than H20 littered with chlorine, fluoride and who knows what
else, then we can better care for our cats.
In addition, think of it logically. Water is the primary means of cleaning
toxins out of the body. The cleaner water is going in, the more
effectively it can leech these nasties from our bodies and pass them where
they belong -- in the sewer. What's more, distilled water is just about
the ONLY water that doesn't try to set off my gag reflexes. Tap water?
When I try to drink it, my throat tries to close up. The only bottled
water I could ever drink was called Ice Age Glacial Melt water and I can't
find it anywhere anymore. Evian? Gross. It's worse than tap water for
me. That's just clear motor oil. And spell Evian backwards = Naive.
Thanks, France!
Distilled water is the ONLY water that my throat manages to open wide for,
and it goes down smooth and clean. I love the taste and it's the most
refreshing thing I can think of, especially on a hot, late summer day.
Damaeus
Laura R.
(manin...@aol.com) said,
> I don't know how big a threat ovarian cancers, etc are to cats, but it seems
> kind of dumb to spay just to prevent it.
>
That's because you don't know what you're talking about. It's not
ovarian cancer that is the concern. Google for "pyometra".
Then read these:
http://www.vospca.org/archive/spayneut.html
http://www.hsus.org/ace/11879
Damaeus
2004 18:27:46 -0400:
> Go to http://www.google.com and enter "distilled water" (without the
> quotes". You will read that distilled water is harmful to your health.
> Bottled spring water, if it contains fluoride, will say so on the label.
You can find search results that swing either way on this issue. I have a
book here _Prescription for Nutritional Healing_ by James F. Balch, M.D.,
and Phyllis A. Balch, C.N.C who believe that we should drink only
steam-distilled water. They advocate the use of mineral drops to add
minerals back to the water -- two tablespoons per five gallons. But I'm
sorry... both chlorine and fluoride are poisons. I'm not sure about
chlorine, but fluoride's effects are cumulative. And once you reduce your
exposure to flouride, it takes years for your body to recover.
When I go into a nursing home and see people sitting around staring at the
floor with snot running out of their noses and across their lips, I think,
"Boy, I don't want to end up like that. What can I do now that was not
done in the old days, because obviously that didn't work so well."
Maybe I'm wrong. But I certainly don't want to follow in the footsteps of
my ancestors.
Damaeus
William Hamblen
> I've already done all the research on spay/neuter that I need to in order to
> make my decision on the issue. If you would like to put up the statistics on
> pyometra for people to see, I'm sure it would be much appreciated.
Pyometria is an infection of the uterus. Because spaying removes the
uterus it is an effective prevention. Ditto ovarian cancer, since
the ovaries also are removed. Had a cat get an ovarian tumor when I
was a youngster and I wouldn't want to repeat the experience. Mammary
tumors respond to hormones and grow when the animal comes into season.
Plus spaying means you don't have to deal with all those surplus kittens.
Laura R.
(manin...@aol.com) said,
> Laura R wrote:>circa 12 Jun 2004 09:14:17 GMT, in rec.pets.cats, Manintowel
> >> I don't know how big a threat ovarian cancers, etc are to cats, but it
> >seems
> >> kind of dumb to spay just to prevent it.
> >>
> >That's because you don't know what you're talking about. It's not
> >ovarian cancer that is the concern. Google for "pyometra".
> >
> >Then read these:
> >http://www.vospca.org/archive/spayneut.html
> >http://www.hsus.org/ace/11879
>
When you say something ridiculous like "it seems kind of dumb" to
spay or neuter to prevent diseases that can *kill* your pet, yes, it
is.
>
> I've read countless little informational sheets put out by vets and animal
> shelters about spay/neuter and don't see anything new on your links. If
> pyometra is really the BIG concern, your links are lacking in helpfulness.
Then you need to learn to comprehend what you read. If you
spay/neuter your animal, it is not JUST ovarian cancer you're
preventing or mitigating the risk of. Did you actually Google for
pyometra like I said to? If you did, then you wouldn't be saying what
you just said. Don't blame me because you're apparently too lazy to
find information yourself.
> The
> only reference to pyometra on your two links is one sentence:
Those links weren't *about* pyometra; they were about OTHER
conditions that spaying or neutering helps to prevent. Are you really
that dense?
>
> I've already done all the research on spay/neuter that I need to in order to
> make my decision on the issue. If you would like to put up the statistics on
> pyometra for people to see, I'm sure it would be much appreciated.
I TOLD you- Google it yourself. If you're too damned lazy to do that,
then it's clear why you have such ignorant opinions about the
benefits of spaying/neutering.
Laura
--
Nothing is as terrible to see as ignorance in action.
-Goethe
Sunflower
Going into season and not being bred puts tremendous stress on the uterine
tissues. Because cats are induced ovulators, an unbred cat can stay in
season for three weeks, and then have only a short respite before the next
season occurs. Pyometra is the result. They are designed to either be
pregnant or be with kittens, not for a life without being bred. But man
domesticated them and increased the chance for survival of their offspring,
and thus pet overpopulation was born. Therefore the social need for spaying
and neutering. The medical need comes with the fact that no one has
developed kitty birth control pills just yet. Keeping a intact female
through several heat cycles WILL result in deterioration of the uterus and
pyometra sooner or later.
I don't have any statistics or websites to back my statements up other than
my personal observation that at least a third of the older female cats (3
yrs+) that we spay that haven't ever had kittens had either incipient
pyometra or a full blown nasty case of it. If you've never experienced it,
GOOD. A cat uterus is kinda like a long skinny Barbie tube sock, and when
it's infected, it can blow up to the size of a garden hose or bigger. And
it's all full of puss. Spaying a cat while she's infected like this is
risky, but not spaying her is certain death.
Spaying is a routine operation. Sure it's serious. Any time an animal
undergoes anesthesia it's serious. Same for a person. But, for the
happiness and health of your animal, it's best to have it done.
Professor
news:MPG.1b3553d15...@news.verizon.net...
Again Laura, you create enemies when you go into attack mode. It is not
your message that is in question, it is what seems to be your need to flame
those offended by your attitude that causes you problems. Why not just
offer your knowledge without the judgment? I realize it takes more of an
effort, but I think you are up to it.
Cheryl
<sunflw...@midsouth.rr.com> artfully composed this message
within <news:UCMyc.84417$DG4....@fe2.columbus.rr.com> on 12 Jun
2004:
<snip>
> Spaying is a routine operation. Sure it's serious. Any time an
> animal undergoes anesthesia it's serious. Same for a person.
> But, for the happiness and health of your animal, it's best to
> have it done.
Very good explanation. Thanks for taking the time to post all of
that; I never knew how it was caused in such a technical way. It's
always been accepted to just do it and most don't object. Some people
are just too weird about it.
--
Cheryl
Laura R.
(vze3...@verizon.net) said,
> Again Laura, you create enemies when you go into attack mode. It is not
> your message that is in question, it is what seems to be your need to flame
> those offended by your attitude that causes you problems. Why not just
> offer your knowledge without the judgment? I realize it takes more of an
> effort, but I think you are up to it.
>
around whinging at me. Fuck off, already. Do you honestly think you
are going to have *any* positive effect whatsoever on me or my
behavior, or have you actually gotten it through your head that your
stupid platitudes only make me want to be a bigger bitch?
Medusa
What does any of this have to do with Free Feeding vs Mealtime? (a
subject I was vaguely interested in until it deteriorated)
Professor
Since when is being a subscriber to this newsgroup a crime? What I am
trying to impress on you is that you possess too much knowledge to allow
those who disagree with your advice to derail your message. Why is someone
so obvious in her desire to do good also so vicious in her retorts? Believe
in yourself and ignore those unworthy of your wisdom. Save your "Fuck offs"
for those who have truly come to despise you.
Damaeus
Sat, 12 Jun 2004 15:13:45 -0500:
> On 2004-06-12, Manintowel <manin...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > I've already done all the research on spay/neuter that I need to in order to
> > make my decision on the issue. If you would like to put up the statistics on
> > pyometra for people to see, I'm sure it would be much appreciated.
>
> Pyometria is an infection of the uterus. Because spaying removes the
> uterus it is an effective prevention.
Good grief. I think I'll have my heart removed to prevent heart disease.
:-\
> Ditto ovarian cancer, since the ovaries also are removed. Had a
> cat get an ovarian tumor when I was a youngster and I wouldn't
> want to repeat the experience. Mammary tumors respond to
> hormones and grow when the animal comes into season. Plus
> spaying means you don't have to deal with all those surplus
> kittens.
Cancers are often caused by environmental factors. I think that rather
than removing pieces from our pets, we should try to determine what's
causing cancer and remove that instead.
Damaeus
Laura R.
ma...@hotmail.invalid.net) said,
>
> than removing pieces from our pets, we should try to determine what's
> causing cancer and remove that instead.
>
controlling animal population, preventing spraying, minimizing
aggression/fighting with other cats, not forcing a cat to go through
heat cycle after cycle after cycle....which, BTW, is what makes them
likely to get pyometra. Call that an "environmental factor" if you
must, but guess what- *removing the uterus* is what prevents it.
Manintowel
>Going into season and not being bred puts tremendous stress on the uterine
>tissues. Because cats are induced ovulators, an unbred cat can stay in
>season for three weeks, and then have only a short respite before the next
>season occurs. Pyometra is the result. They are designed to either be
>pregnant or be with kittens, not for a life without being bred. But man
>domesticated them and increased the chance for survival of their offspring,
>and thus pet overpopulation was born. Therefore the social need for spaying
>and neutering. The medical need comes with the fact that no one has
>developed kitty birth control pills just yet. Keeping a intact female
>through several heat cycles WILL result in deterioration of the uterus and
>pyometra sooner or later.
>
That was an elegant and informative explanation. Thank you for taking the time
to share your knowledge.
Erica
Laura R.
(manin...@aol.com) said,
> Laura R. wrote:
>
> >Then you need to learn to comprehend what you read. If you
> >spay/neuter your animal, it is not JUST ovarian cancer you're
> >preventing or mitigating the risk of.
>
> about *Cancer Prevention* as the primary reason to spay/neuter.
I did, and that's not what you said. Too bad you can't rewrite
history to suit your new claim.
>
> You jumped in with *Pyometra,* which by the way, is not cancer.
I never said it was.
>
> >id you actually Google for
> >pyometra like I said to? If you did, then you wouldn't be saying what
> >you just said. Don't blame me because you're apparently too lazy to
> >find information yourself.
> >
>
> Why do I need to go research Pyometra?
Because you're uneducated about it. You advocated vasectomy or tubal
ligation as a possibility.
> I already know I'm spaying my female
> cats, so it is a moot point, and I don't feel any need to become an expert on
> it. What really annoys me the most about you is that you're acting like I'm
> running rampant through this newsgroup advising people not to spay/neuter, and
> now people who don't read carefully are going to assume I have a barn full of
> copulating cats.
Ummmm, sure. You have issues. Nobody is going to think what you claim
above. However, they might think that your refusal to educate
yourself is indicative of the seriousness with which your "advice"
should be taken.
George Orwell
> circa 12 Jun 2004 09:14:17 GMT, in rec.pets.cats, Manintowel
> (manin...@aol.com) said,
> > I don't know how big a threat ovarian cancers, etc are to cats, but it
seems
> > kind of dumb to spay just to prevent it.
> >
> That's because you don't know what you're talking about.
What was that again about being a rude, arrogant, nasty bitch?
George Orwell
> Again, Proffie, you show your psychotic obsession with following me
> around whinging at me. Fuck off, already. Do you honestly think you
> are going to have *any* positive effect whatsoever on me or my
> behavior, or have you actually gotten it through your head that your
> stupid platitudes only make me want to be a bigger bitch?
>
> Laura
George Orwell
> When you say something ridiculous
> Then you need to learn to comprehend what you read.
> Don't blame me because you're apparently too lazy to
> find information yourself.
> Are you really that dense?
> I TOLD you- Google it yourself. If you're too damned lazy
karving
all over furniture. Didn't know what I was dealing with, went untreated for
several months (she was older, not younger). She is alive today because of
being spayed. It is very common if u have a female cat, don't spay and
don't impregnate, for this to happen. You will then need to spay the cat,
or it will die. I was lucky. Most might not be, do you want to take the
chance?
Damaeus
Sat, 19 Jun 2004 23:35:23 -0700:
I don't know. I've found that some people will make up all kinds of things
just to get others to sexually mutilate their animals. I'll wait and see.
We had a cat who went through several "heats" and did just fine.
Good lord.. imagine what life might be like if HUMAN females started having
green discharges just because they weren't getting any every time they were
horny. Either we'd go extinct or we'd enlarge the planet by our sheer
numbers.