American Cats are too Fat
Lee Kokot
This is a plea to cat owners to stop gorging their cats
with so much food, and to stop using the 'free-feeding'
method of feeding.
Almost all the cats I come across these days are overweight.
Many people follow the feeding guidelines on their cans of
food, which are almost always too liberal, or use 'free
feeding,' putting a giant bowl of food down, and trusting
kitty's instincts to eat the right amount of food.
Poppycock! If you feed your cats according to these methods,
you will have a tired, overweight, lazy, stupid pet. Sorry,
but I've seen it too much, and no one says anything. There is
a kind of conspiracy of silence when it comes to our cat's
health. Dogs can be athletic, svelt, but cats are expected,
I guess, to lie there pathetically, getting up only to go to the
cat box, or have some more food.
I feed my cat 2 or 3 *small* meals a day. As a result, he is
usually hungry around meal times. But he is not obsessed with
food, and has a lot of energy, even at 6 years of age. He happily
runs around my garden, wrestles with his owner, and is generally
a happy, athletic, muscular creature. I wish cat owners would
wake up and smell the roses. Stop listening to the catfood
companies and stop being influenced by the fat cat spokesanimals
on TV, and the images on cat food of no-necked, apoplectic
sorry excuses for cats. Such obesity goes against a cats'
natural tendency to be thin and muscular, necessary if they are
to be able to catch their prey day after day after day.
This is not flame bait, just a passionate defence of the
rights of animals not to be force-fed by their owners,
or trained in such a way as to waste their lives in unpro-
ductive, decorative existence, never experiencing true,
honest health.
Regards, Lee Kokot PGP Key I.D.: 0XB3AB0261
Encino, CA http://www.primenet.com/~kokot/
ko...@primenet.com
--
Regards, Lee Kokot PGP Key I.D.: 0XB3AB0261
Encino, CA http://www.primenet.com/~kokot/
ko...@primenet.com
Mikko or Andy
ko...@primenet.com (Lee Kokot) wrote:
>This is a plea to cat owners to stop gorging their cats
>with so much food, and to stop using the 'free-feeding'
>method of feeding.
_American_ cats?
Sheesh. Most American cats I've met in this group don't come even
close to an average European Shorthair's 13 lbs.
(Well, our Mikko with his 23 lbs _is_ a bit on the fluffy side ;-)
Andy
--
*** See the rpc cats at: ***
http://personal.eunet.fi/pp/andy/meows.htm
Susan Edkins
In article <50feus$6...@nnrp1.news.primenet.com>,
ko...@primenet.com (Lee Kokot) wrote:
>This is a plea to cat owners to stop gorging their cats
>with so much food, and to stop using the 'free-feeding'
>method of feeding.
>
Not flame bait? Perhaps not intentionally so, but I would still advise you to get out the
asbestos underwear. Good intentions are not an adequate substitute for good sense or rational
argument. I'm sure that in the near future plenty of space will be taken up in point by point
refutation of your baseless polemic. What you call "a passionate defense" is really no more than
a passionately felt, thinly supported and arrogantly expressed opinion. Get a grip and come down
off your high horse.
Susan (I never met a mixed metaphor I didn't like) Edkins
Kate Ashley
Mikko or Andy wrote:
>
> ko...@primenet.com (Lee Kokot) wrote:
>
> >This is a plea to cat owners to stop gorging their cats
> >with so much food, and to stop using the 'free-feeding'
> >method of feeding.
>
> Sheesh. Most American cats I've met in this group don't come even
> close to an average European Shorthair's 13 lbs.
> (Well, our Mikko with his 23 lbs _is_ a bit on the fluffy side ;-)
>
> Andy
> --
> *** See the rpc cats at: ***
> http://personal.eunet.fi/pp/andy/meows.htm
Thank you for your impassioned plea. I must disagree with you on this.
My cats are free fed and do not eat obsessively. They are active and
playful and very healthy. In fact when I first got Rory, a street
stray, some years ago, he was obsessed with food. He was always eating,
but he was so thin that was fine. Over the years he has come to realise
that food will always be there for him and has stopped skarfing down
every morsel put in front of him.
Despite what you say, I have noticed that my cats (I've had 4 and
presently have 3) eat small amounts several times a day, which is best
for the cat. If you lived at my house you would be amazed at the antics
of my cats racing around the place like their butts are on fire,
leaping, wrestling, chasing, bouncing off the walls and moving their
toys from one room to another.
I am sure there are some cats that are obese, just as there are some
people who are obese (myself included), however, most of the cats I have
seen in my community and those of my friends are not fat and are active.
I would prefer to see you crusade for better quality pet food, and the
truth from pet food companies of what really goes into many store brand
foods and the unwanted preservatives in many foods, including those
considered to be high quality.
Kate
Susan Mudgett aka little gator
Lee Kokot (ko...@primenet.com) wrote:
: This is a plea to cat owners to stop gorging their cats
: with so much food, and to stop using the 'free-feeding'
: method of feeding.
I've had cats for 29 years and until recently never freefed. But
here's how that changed.
I have four cats now: Reka Mao and Little Kitty, both females age 16,
Kimmy, male age 15, Buster male age 11.
Up till about a year ago they were fed twice a day. Despite all my
best efforts Buster was slightly overweight and the females were thin.
Buster(and to a lesser extent Kimmy) is very aggressive when it comes
to food, and the lady cats were so intimidated by him that they chose
to starve rather than fight him. Separating at feeding time didn't
help. The ladies would pick at their food and seemed to plan to come
back later. As soon as we released Buster he'd gobble whatever they'd
left.
So Buster was slightly fat, Kimmy was just right, and Reka Mao and
Little Kitty became skeletons. Then alternately over a few months,
both females had episodes of appetite loss, dehydration, fever, and
vomiting. No cause was ever found for Little Kitty but Reka Mao was
found to have failing kidneys. It had become so bad that I knew the
females would die of malnutrion if they weren't freefed. They were old
and frail and their appetites required frequent tiny snack as the only
way to get enough food into them.
I had to choose between starving the thin ones or stuffing the fat. As
much as I hate to see fat cats I hate even worse to see them skin and
bones and too weak to enjoy their lives. So now they are all freedfed
high fiber weight-maintenance formulas.
The females have gained weight and are now only slighly thin. The vet
beleives they are borderline dangerously underweight even so. Little
Kitty seems all right otherwise and Reka Mao is still struggling with
her kidneys. In addition to all being freefed the dry, Reka Mao gets
1/4 can of wet daily with Metamucil added to it, since she gets
constipated even on the high fiber diet. The piggies let her eat it in
peace since they always have their dry available.
Kimmy is slightly fat now but the vet says it's not enough to worry
about. Buster blimped up enormously, became diabetic, and has lost a
little weight on insulin treatment. He's still fat and always will be
as long as I have Reka Mao or Little Kitty.
Kimmy seesm to do all right now matter how I feed, but I had to make a
choice between one cat being dangerously overweight or two other cats
being literally being starved to sickness and maybe even death.
Current weights:
Reka Mao 8 lb(ideal weight 11)
Little Kitty 5 lb(ideal weight 7)
Kimmy 11 lb(ideal 10)
Buster 15(ideal 11)
Feeding a houseful of elderly cats is far more complicated than I ever
would have expected.
My two dogs eat measured amounts of food once or twice daily(its
varied over the years for different reasons) and are fed in their
crates. The cat food is out of their reach and they are both ideal
weight.
Lee Kokot
Kate Ashley <Sham...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>I am sure there are some cats that are obese, just as there are some
>people who are obese (myself included), however, most of the cats I have
>seen in my community and those of my friends are not fat and are active.
>I would prefer to see you crusade for better quality pet food, and the
>truth from pet food companies of what really goes into many store brand
>foods and the unwanted preservatives in many foods, including those
>considered to be high quality.
Kate, I think this is really off the mark. What do you think
has a greater effect on a cat's health -- the preservatives in
the cat food, or the indiscretion of feeding it beyond a natural
or healthy level?
While I am all for natural ingredients in my food, and that of my
cat's, it's a fact of modern life that often there are preservatives
in food, and if you try to avoid it, you end up spending a lot
of time and energy and money, with still uncertain success.
Glad to hear, however that your cats are not obese. I conjecture
that you live in a suburban/rural area, with large yards or a
large common area, such as an apartment complex. Am I
correct?
Lee Kokot
s...@harvee.billerica.ma.us (Susan Mudgett aka little gator) writes:
>Up till about a year ago they were fed twice a day. Despite all my
>best efforts Buster was slightly overweight and the females were thin.
>Buster(and to a lesser extent Kimmy) is very aggressive when it comes
>to food, and the lady cats were so intimidated by him that they chose
>to starve rather than fight him. Separating at feeding time didn't
>help. The ladies would pick at their food and seemed to plan to come
>back later. As soon as we released Buster he'd gobble whatever they'd
>left.
Your situation is unique, and you've made a good effort to
avoid overfeeding your cats. In your case, you did not have
a lot of options available.
Far be it from me to second-guess you from the miles which
separate us, but had you tried any form of separating
the hog from the rest of the kitty's, especially at feeding time?
I don't like hogs, and am sure if I owned one, he'd have his
own private dining quarters where he couldn't intrude on
the enjoyment of his housemates.
Rich Coad & Stacy Scott
Lee Kokot wrote:
> Glad to hear, however that your cats are not obese. I conjecture
> that you live in a suburban/rural area, with large yards or a
> large common area, such as an apartment complex. Am I
> correct?
Hmm -- the question wasn't directed to me, but I'll answer. I free-feed
my cats with kibble, they are not obese, and they live in an urban
apartment with no access to the outdoors. And, I doubt very much that
my experience is particularly unusual.
I would suggest that the original statement, that American cats are
obese because of free-feeding, is too simplistic. That exceptions occur
would indicate that a number of variables would be involved in the
alleged obesity of American cats, as the post above would indicate in
its suggestion that exercise would mitigate the effect claimed for
free-feeding.
Stacy Scott
steph
: In article <50feus$6...@nnrp1.news.primenet.com>,
: ko...@primenet.com (Lee Kokot) wrote:
:
: >This is a plea to cat owners to stop gorging their cats
: >with so much food, and to stop using the 'free-feeding'
: >method of feeding.
Poppycock?! Exactly! Pandora, my 3 yo mutt longhair, free feeds and has
*always* freefed. She is, and has always been, an only cat in an
apartment with no access to the outside. Guess how overweight she is?
Not at all! In fact, she is slightly underweight.
You said you weren't a troll ... why then, did you say "American Cats"
rather than "Free-Feeding Cats"?
Steph, working to keep the bowl full at all times :-)
ondago
This guy is a nut. Look at his web page, you'll get the picture, but DON'T
write him or you'll get foul and filthy email. Ugh. My error, I actually
responded. Now my mailbox is soiled with his filthy invective.
Lee Kokot <ko...@primenet.com> wrote in article
<50feus$6...@nnrp1.news.primenet.com>...
> This is a plea to cat owners to stop gorging their cats
> with so much food, and to stop using the 'free-feeding'
> method of feeding.
>
> This is not flame bait, just a passionate defence of the
> rights of animals not to be force-fed by their owners,
> or trained in such a way as to waste their lives in unpro-
> ductive, decorative existence, never experiencing true,
> honest health.
>
REP
> ko...@primenet.com (Lee Kokot) wrote:
>
> >This is a plea to cat owners to stop gorging their cats
> >with so much food, and to stop using the 'free-feeding'
> >method of feeding.
>
> _American_ cats?
> Sheesh. Most American cats I've met in this group don't come even
> close to an average European Shorthair's 13 lbs
Andy, Andy ... how could you slight Chloe (16 lbs), Lily (18 lbs) and Pete
(20 lbs)? All American, all huge, all certified by their vet to be the
right weights for their builds.
> (Well, our Mikko with his 23 lbs _is_ a bit on the fluffy side ;-)
That's not so much, even if it is what Tessa, Ramona and Claire weigh
combined...
--
I think of myself as a person who will eat your lunch one day.
- Ralph "Goldilocks" Taite in <4ultck$m...@panix2.panix.com>
Susan Mudgett aka little gator
Lee Kokot (ko...@primenet.com) wrote:
: I don't like hogs, and am sure if I owned one, he'd have his
: own private dining quarters where he couldn't intrude on
: the enjoyment of his housemates.
The only way I could do that would be to keep him caged 24 hours a
day.
D.J. Miles
In article <rep-040996...@mama.inanna.com>, r...@inanna.com (REP) writes:
> In article <50gi88$q...@idefix.eunet.fi>, ma...@andy.pp.fi wrote:
>
> > ko...@primenet.com (Lee Kokot) wrote:
> >
> > >This is a plea to cat owners to stop gorging their cats
> > >with so much food, and to stop using the 'free-feeding'
> > >method of feeding.
> >
> > _American_ cats?
> > Sheesh. Most American cats I've met in this group don't come even
> > close to an average European Shorthair's 13 lbs
>
> Andy, Andy ... how could you slight Chloe (16 lbs), Lily (18 lbs) and Pete
> (20 lbs)? All American, all huge, all certified by their vet to be the
> right weights for their builds.
>
> > (Well, our Mikko with his 23 lbs _is_ a bit on the fluffy side ;-)
>
> That's not so much, even if it is what Tessa, Ramona and Claire weigh
> combined...
>
There's just been a report in the British press that about 40 percent of British
cats are overweight -- the highest in Europe. Survey was carried out by vets
around Europe, but I don't know how many cats they weighed to find this amazing
fact. Judging by the number of podgy cats around Cambridge, they're probably not
too far off. I guess the British and Americans have pretty much the same attitude
when it comes to spoiling their pets, so it's probably not too different there.
The people on the news report didn't seem to think that they were doing anything
wrong, even though their pets had trouble keeping their stomachs clear of the
floor!! As one vet put it, giving a cat or dog one of your biscuits at teatime is
much the same as eating a whole packet of biscuits yourself!!!
David.
Mikko or Andy
On 4 Sep 1996 09:42:24 GMT, r...@inanna.com (REP) wrote:
>> _American_ cats?
>> Sheesh. Most American cats I've met in this group don't come
even
>> close to an average European Shorthair's 13 lbs
>Andy, Andy ... how could you slight Chloe (16 lbs), Lily (18 lbs) and Pete
>(20 lbs)? All American, all huge, all certified by their vet to be the
>right weights for their builds.
Well, Rachel, three out of what, 500?, that we have in rpc... Not
'most', not even 'many' ;-)
Andy, hoping to get my handle right with this new Agent.
A. Hutchinson
"ondago" <ond...@nando.net> wrote:
>This guy is a nut. Look at his web page, you'll get the picture, but DON'T
>write him or you'll get foul and filthy email. Ugh. My error, I actually
>responded. Now my mailbox is soiled with his filthy invective.
>
>Lee Kokot <ko...@primenet.com> wrote in article
><50feus$6...@nnrp1.news.primenet.com>...
>> with so much food, and to stop using the 'free-feeding'
>> method of feeding.
>>
>> rights of animals not to be force-fed by their owners,
>> or trained in such a way as to waste their lives in unpro-
>> ductive, decorative existence, never experiencing true,
>> honest health.
>>
>> Regards, Lee Kokot PGP Key I.D.: 0XB3AB0261
>> Encino, CA http://www.primenet.com/~kokot/
>> ko...@primenet.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> Regards, Lee Kokot PGP Key I.D.: 0XB3AB0261
>> Encino, CA http://www.primenet.com/~kokot/
>> ko...@primenet.com
>>
>>
Whoa. I don't recall anyone on this newsgroup EVER *forcing* a cat to
eat too much. That's ridiculous. I'd tend to be dubious about the
intent of the original post, as well.
Amber
Brandy Schweiss
In article <50i2m5$l...@nnrp1.news.primenet.com>,
Lee Kokot <ko...@primenet.com> wrote:
>Far be it from me to second-guess you from the miles which
>separate us, but had you tried any form of separating
>the hog from the rest of the kitty's, especially at feeding time?
>
I think you are missing the point here. From my understanding of
what the poster was saying, the other cats simply wouldn't eat
enough to sustain themselves at one sitting. For them, there
simply was no "mealtime". She would have had to keep the "piggy"
cat locked up *all the time*, not just at mealtimes. I suspect her
situation is rather unusual -- most cats would simply change their
eating habits rather than practically starve themselves, but such
was not the case with her.
>I don't like hogs, and am sure if I owned one, he'd have his
>own private dining quarters where he couldn't intrude on
>the enjoyment of his housemates.
Then you would have to lock him up *all* the time, if you had a situation
analogous to her's.
-Brandy
Lee Kokot
It seems that, minus one person whose actions are unaccountable, the
reaction to my post was informative, but hardly what I expected. This
newsgroup holds a large number of people whose cats are NOT fat, not
spoiled, not overfed. This is hardly surprising, considering the care and
attention we all here on rec.pets.cats show our pets.
Unfortunately, that is not the case in much of the United States,
where, if we are anything like the Brits when it comes to stuffing
our pets' faces, about 40% of them are overweight.
It's a problem that probably won't go away, given the fact
that so many of us live with our pets in cramped quarters,
where the kitchen takes up half the square footage! and kitty
is constantly bombarded with the smells which emanate forthwith.
I suggest a regimen of exercise for those of our furry friends who
prefer a good talking to better than any other activity. I am always
wrestling with my pet, chasing him down the long porch, hiding and
pouncing, and getting pounced on. Such things keep his mind sharp,
his reflexes toned, and all his muscles get some exercise. Cats were
not born to languish!
Why is our psychology so reversed with our dogs? Few dog-owners I know
would ever think to lay a giant bowl of food down for their dogs to eat
all day long. Well, why do it to our cats? Most of the dog-owners I know
'run' their dogs several times a week. I think if you can get outside
with your cat, you should. I know that due to a cat's high protein diet
it's sleep requriements are higher than a dog's. I don't mean to equate
dogs and cats. But there is a tendency for cat-owners to become a little
complacent about the physical needs of cats: 'They are so independent,
why bother?' Because, they are not unaffected by how they're fed, how much
exercise they get and the quality of their food (Whiskas?! Geesh!).
David Marcus or Peggy Lamberson
test
Crossapple
Lee Kokot wrote:
>Glad to hear, however that your cats are not obese. I >conjecture that
you live in a suburban/rural area, with >large yards or a large common
area, such as an apartment >complex. Am I correct?
I cannot speak for Kate and her cats, but I have two
ideal-weight, free-fed cats. INDOOR cats, who
have never been outside and never will be, and
*somehow* manage to exercise and be healthy
and content!
Amazing, isn't it? And we live so completely
contradictory to your argument, too. Will
wonders never cease?
Carey
---------------------
"I am no one to be trifled with.
That is all you ever need know."
(from "The Princess Bride")
Crossapple
>Few dog-owners I know
>would ever think to lay a giant bowl of
>food down for their dogs to eat
>all day long. Well, why do it to our cats?
Well, for one thing, cats are not
the same as dogs, so what's good
for one may not be good for the
other.
If you lay a *giant* bowl of food out
for any animal, it's little wonder if
it ends up fat!
But that's not what free-feeding
is. It can work just fine for
some animals, but it's not a
big pig-out festival - there *is*
measuring involved, you know.
And don't you think you're sort
of preaching to the converted?
Just some thoughts.
Carey, Cy & Paisley
---------------------------
Kami
David Marcus or Peggy Lamberson <zo...@netdepot.com> wrote:
>test
Funny Face? Is that you? Where have you been? I miss you so much!
Are you going to Meowchat Feest? I volunteered to be a greeterer, with
Gizmo and Sassy. But we can still reserve a table for just the two of
us.
Bootsie
Missing her winkwink terribly!
--------------------------------------------------------
Dogs think they're human. Cats wouldn't stoop that low.
Bootsie, Gizmo, Sassy and canine pal Princess are at
http://www.users.interport.net/~kamiscot
REP
In article <50l68r$9...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, cross...@aol.com
(Crossapple) wrote:
> Lee Kokot wrote:
>
> >Glad to hear, however that your cats are not obese. I >conjecture that
> you live in a suburban/rural area, with >large yards or a large common
> area, such as an apartment >complex. Am I correct?
>
> I cannot speak for Kate and her cats, but I have two
> ideal-weight, free-fed cats. INDOOR cats, who
> have never been outside and never will be, and
> *somehow* manage to exercise and be healthy
> and content!
I'm not Kate, either, but I did mention my huge, non-obese, free-feeding,
indoor-only in an apartment cats. I did leave out that one of them is 25
years old, though.
The Cat Burglar
In article <50kijl$h...@nnrp1.news.primenet.com>,
Lee Kokot <ko...@primenet.com> wrote:
>It seems that, minus one person whose actions are unaccountable, the
>reaction to my post was informative, but hardly what I expected. This
>newsgroup holds a large number of people whose cats are NOT fat, not
>spoiled, not overfed. This is hardly surprising, considering the care and
>attention we all here on rec.pets.cats show our pets.
>
I am one of those who free-feeds, but my kitties are only 5 months old
(although I have seen overweight kittens) - they are not overweight yet,
and still very active - their feeding schedule (morning & night filling of
the bowl) may change as they get older.
>Unfortunately, that is not the case in much of the United States,
>where, if we are anything like the Brits when it comes to stuffing
>our pets' faces, about 40% of them are overweight.
>
>It's a problem that probably won't go away, given the fact
>that so many of us live with our pets in cramped quarters,
>where the kitchen takes up half the square footage! and kitty
>is constantly bombarded with the smells which emanate forthwith.
>
This is what truly prompted me to respond to this post - half of the
square footage?? Wow! My kitchen takes up _maybe_ 1/8 of it, if that!!
(and the kitties show no response to the smells from there, as they get no
"human food" and their treats are not located in the kitchen (nor are
their dishes)).
>I suggest a regimen of exercise for those of our furry friends who
>prefer a good talking to better than any other activity. I am always
>wrestling with my pet, chasing him down the long porch, hiding and
>pouncing, and getting pounced on. Such things keep his mind sharp,
>his reflexes toned, and all his muscles get some exercise. Cats were
>not born to languish!
>
Luckily I have two little furballs to amuse each other while I'm away -
I'm always coming home to find the "results" of their daily exercise ;)
(I also take them for walks on harnesses & leashes as well as play with
them inside)
>Why is our psychology so reversed with our dogs? Few dog-owners I know
>would ever think to lay a giant bowl of food down for their dogs to eat
>all day long. Well, why do it to our cats? Most of the dog-owners I know
>'run' their dogs several times a week. I think if you can get outside
>with your cat, you should. I know that due to a cat's high protein diet
>it's sleep requriements are higher than a dog's. I don't mean to equate
>dogs and cats. But there is a tendency for cat-owners to become a little
>complacent about the physical needs of cats: 'They are so independent,
>why bother?' Because, they are not unaffected by how they're fed, how much
>exercise they get and the quality of their food (Whiskas?! Geesh!).
>
From living in a house where we've had dogs for many years (and we had
cats before, but my parents stopped w/the cats when I was little), dogs
will tend to eat themselves silly - cats _in general_ (big generalization
here!!) will stop eating when they're full - dogs will not. I do agree
w/getting you and your cat outside together (depending on where you live
and how your cats lives - ie indoor or outdoor cat). And cats are
definately affected by what they eat (are fed) - how good would you feel
if you ate McDonald's every day? In the short term, you might feel great
- but in the long term, it's just not good for you. I work as a cashier
in a supermarket part-time while I'm going to college, and I see so many
people buying not just the name brands that are sold in the store, but the
store brand (ie generic) for their cats - as it is not my place to
commend/recommend, I have to restrain comments as to what they are feeding
their cats (they tend to buy about 25 cans of store-brand when it's on
sale for 5 cans for $1 or less, generally - no dry food at all, but that,
again, is up to the pet owner, but I wouldn't recommend it - but I'm not
vet, so who am I to say?). Personally, my two 5 month old kitties get dry
Iams kitten food - and a treat of wet food about once very 2 weeks (about
a tablespoon each). They're doing great. I think you'll find that many
of the people here on rpc really do care for their pets - and I"m sorry if
I offended anyone with my opinions of supermarket brand food - if you
don't like what I said, please respond via email, as so not to clog up the
group even more (unless, of course, it is something that everyone could
benefit from!!)
-Kris
(owned by Fizzy & Dal)
--
Lee Kokot
"A. Hutchinson" <ah...@cas.albany.edu> writes:
>Whoa. I don't recall anyone on this newsgroup EVER *forcing* a cat to
>eat too much. That's ridiculous. I'd tend to be dubious about the
>intent of the original post, as well.
I think it's a subtle form of coersion when you so train an animal
to want and expect a constant supply of nutriment. Especially
when this is so far from their wont in the wild.
I certainly didn't expect this vitriol from people in this newsgroup,
though I did expect some resistance. What reason is there to be
angry with me? Did I hit a sore spot or something?
Lee Kokot
cross...@aol.com (Crossapple) writes:
>And don't you think you're sort
>of preaching to the converted?
Thanks for your informative post. Yes, I am reaching the conclusion
here that I was wrong to suggest that the caring owners represented
on rec.pets.cats were an accurate sample of cat-owners at large.
Obviously, you've read the posts, so you know how caring we all
seem to be.
Lee Kokot
I've been reading a thread on diabetes in this newsgroup.
Several times, I've heard the disease linked to an overweight
condition in the animal.
Unfortunately, a pet that is constantly in a state of digestion,
whose abdominal tract never gets a respite (I fast my cat twice
a month!) is prone to all sorts of diseases including diabetes,
high blood pressure, and urinary tract problems. Most vets,
imho, have missed the boat.
Brandy Schweiss
In article <50mmki$i...@nnrp1.news.primenet.com>,
Lee Kokot <ko...@primenet.com> wrote:
>I certainly didn't expect this vitriol from people in this newsgroup,
>though I did expect some resistance. What reason is there to be
>angry with me? Did I hit a sore spot or something?
I would suggest you go back and read your original post, and pay
attention to your *tone*, which was very aggressive and accusatory.
This might explain the defensiveness you saw in many of the
responses.
-Brandy
Crossapple
Lee Kokot wrote:
>I certainly didn't expect this vitriol
>from people in this newsgroup,
>though I did expect some resistance.
>What reason is there to be
>angry with me? Did I hit a sore
>spot or something?
No. We simply don't suffer fools gladly.
Carey
REP
In article <50kijl$h...@nnrp1.news.primenet.com>, ko...@primenet.com (Lee
Kokot) wrote:
> It seems that, minus one person whose actions are unaccountable, the
> reaction to my post was informative, but hardly what I expected. This
> newsgroup holds a large number of people whose cats are NOT fat, not
> spoiled, not overfed.
Ahem. I have the huge, non-obese, free-feeding, indoor-only cats who live
in an apartment. My cats are spoiled rotten, thank you.
Lee Kokot
bra...@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (Brandy Schweiss) writes:
>I would suggest you go back and read your original post, and pay
>attention to your *tone*, which was very aggressive and accusatory.
>This might explain the defensiveness you saw in many of the
>responses.
I have done as you suggested, and I still maintain that the
defensiveness you wrote of is masking either an inability to
argue effectively their point, or being backed into a logical
corner from which they cannot escape.
Lee Kokot
cross...@aol.com (Crossapple) writes:
>No. We simply don't suffer fools gladly.
I was not going to reply to your unwarranted personal
attack, but I think I might profit this group by pointing
out the true fool.
TNelson01
I mean no offence to anyone but, how would you like it if I, just
posted ' ****** cats are ugly and abused' and it refered to your cats,
and it isn't even remotely true, only a personal opinion of mine. You'd
probably say I'm a troll just wanting attention. You'de probably be right
too. I'm not mad at you but sometimes it pays to stand back and look at
the situation for 'the other person's point of view'.
Have a good day
Tim,
_______________________
Be slow to anger
and quick to forgive.
And if any is evil to you
return his evil with
kindness.
----------------------------------------
Crossapple
Lee Kokot ranted:
>I was not going to reply to your unwarranted personal
>attack, but I think I might profit this group by pointing
>out the true fool.
Yeah. *I'm* the one who barged into the group, throwing
my unsubstantiated opinion around in an ignorant and
condescending way.
I think we've all seen just how "profitable" your posts
can be, thanks all the same.
Carey
-----------------------------
Michael Carpenter
On 2 Sep 1996 13:10:04 -0700, ko...@primenet.com (Lee Kokot)
wrote:
We have seven cats who are fed at exactly the same time and in
exactly the same place each day. The largest probably weighs
twice as much as the smallest. He is also the one who is the most
demanding of attention, and also has a tendency to visit the
feeding area to 'graze' far more often than the others.
I suspect his weight has more to do with psychological factors
than the way he's fed.
>This is a plea to cat owners to stop gorging their cats
>with so much food, and to stop using the 'free-feeding'
>method of feeding.
>
>Almost all the cats I come across these days are overweight.
>Many people follow the feeding guidelines on their cans of
>food, which are almost always too liberal, or use 'free
>feeding,' putting a giant bowl of food down, and trusting
>kitty's instincts to eat the right amount of food.
>
Michael Carpenter----------------------------------
mc...@qns.com / mc...@well.com
http://www.well.com/user/mcarp/elvis.htm
dgabriel
: In article <50feus$6...@nnrp1.news.primenet.com>,
: ko...@primenet.com (Lee Kokot) wrote:
:
: >This is a plea to cat owners to stop gorging their cats
: >with so much food, and to stop using the 'free-feeding'
: >method of feeding.
While it may be true that there are _some_ cats who will overeat if
they're allowed to free-feed, I think that the feeding policy should be
based on the individual cat's behavior. I have two cats who have 24-hour
access to kibble and they are not overweight.
: >Almost all the cats I come across these days are overweight.
: >Many people follow the feeding guidelines on their cans of
: >food, which are almost always too liberal, or use 'free
: >feeding,' putting a giant bowl of food down, and trusting
: >kitty's instincts to eat the right amount of food.
: >
If following the directions that are printed on the cat food container are
causing the cat to become overweight, then design a more appropriate
feeding plan according to your veterinarian's direction. DO NOT attempt to
slim down the cat without the vet's assistance! Make sure the cat's weight
gain is not related to some sort of health issue that is unrelated to diet
(eg thyroid problem) and then discuss with your vet:
- the cat's "goal" range of weights (no more than x, no less than y).
This will vary according to the individual cat.
- the best way to feed the cat so that, if it DOES need to slim down, it
will take off any excess weight gradually and safely.
: >Poppycock! If you feed your cats according to these methods,
: >you will have a tired, overweight, lazy, stupid pet. Sorry,
: >but I've seen it too much, and no one says anything. There is
: >a kind of conspiracy of silence when it comes to our cat's
: >health. Dogs can be athletic, svelt, but cats are expected,
: >I guess, to lie there pathetically, getting up only to go to the
: >cat box, or have some more food.
: >
Cats need exercise too! If they aren't active enough, it's up to us to
help our pets exercise by playing with them. Having pets is a
responsibility that goes beyond merely feeding and cleaning out
litterboxes: our pets also need our TIME and COMPANIONSHIP.
: >I feed my cat 2 or 3 *small* meals a day. As a result, he is
: >usually hungry around meal times. But he is not obsessed with
: >food, and has a lot of energy, even at 6 years of age. He happily
: >runs around my garden, wrestles with his owner, and is generally
: >a happy, athletic, muscular creature. I wish cat owners would
: >wake up and smell the roses. Stop listening to the catfood
: >companies and stop being influenced by the fat cat spokesanimals
: >on TV, and the images on cat food of no-necked, apoplectic
: >sorry excuses for cats. Such obesity goes against a cats'
: >natural tendency to be thin and muscular, necessary if they are
: >to be able to catch their prey day after day after day.
: >
I'm glad to see that you have a feeding regimen that appears to be working
out well for your cat. All that exercise is also probably helping to keep
him in good health too! But I just want to reiterate that for each of our
cats, achieving and maintaining a "healthy weight" might require different
approaches. Always have the cat examined by the vet first, to determine if
it is already at a healthy weight and in good overall health. If the cat
does need to slim down, work out the best process for this WITH THE VET.
: >This is not flame bait, just a passionate defence of the
: >rights of animals not to be force-fed by their owners,
: >or trained in such a way as to waste their lives in unpro-
: >ductive, decorative existence, never experiencing true,
: >honest health.
: >
: >Regards, Lee Kokot PGP Key I.D.: 0XB3AB0261
: >Encino, CA http://www.primenet.com/~kokot/
: > ko...@primenet.com
I do agree that we shouldn't overfeed our pets, or just ignore matters if
the pets become overweight: our pets can suffer from many of the same
problems that humans do from excess weight, including heart disease. :(
However, free-feeding is not an automatic guarantee that a cat will become
overweight. Each cat is different, and their feeding plans need to be
regulated accordingly. But thank you for bringing up an important issue:
that our pets do need to be fed properly in order to remain healthy!
Donna, and the two kitties whose weights have been checked and approved by
the vet :) , Melody and Harmony
Lee Kokot
cross...@aol.com (Crossapple) writes:
>I think we've all seen just how "profitable" your posts
>can be, thanks all the same.
The proof, as they say, is in the pudding. The state
of cats' health in this country is abominable. As
our penchant for living in smaller and smaller quarters
grows, and as apartment and condo living rises (for
many people a condo is the only economically feasible
way for them to have their own home), the importance
of feeding *control* grows also.
You simply cannot stuff 600-700 calories into an animal
this size, and expect him to burn it off by walking from
the living room to the kitchen to the bedroom.
Lee Kokot
tnel...@aol.com (TNelson01) writes:
>Have a good day
>Tim,
Haven't you noticed that the newsgroups are a way to be
read by many intelligent readers, quickly and effectively?
If what I said had any urgency or importance to it, which
I believe I did, and if it were relevent to the newsgroup
topic which it is, then you can't really fault me for
something as nebulous as my 'tone.' In case there still is
a vestige of internet protocol, and the unhealty elitism
which inspired it in the first place, I'd have thought the
mountains of commercial verbiage on-line at present would
have killed it off with much more finality than the tone
of urgency in my original post.
I maintain that much of the hostility stems from a frustration
at not being able to effectively counter my arguments with any-
thing other than anecdotes on the one hand and invective on the
other.
Lee Kokot
dgab...@netaxs.com (dgabriel) writes:
>While it may be true that there are _some_ cats who will overeat if
>they're allowed to free-feed, I think that the feeding policy should be
>based on the individual cat's behavior. I have two cats who have 24-hour
>access to kibble and they are not overweight.
I cannot think of a more sensible approach to feeding.
>If following the directions that are printed on the cat food container are
>causing the cat to become overweight, then design a more appropriate
>feeding plan according to your veterinarian's direction. DO NOT attempt to
>slim down the cat without the vet's assistance! Make sure the cat's weight
>gain is not related to some sort of health issue that is unrelated to diet
>(eg thyroid problem) and then discuss with your vet:
I agree that if you can afford it, you should consult a vet anytime you
embark on a change in the cat's feeding regimen.
>However, free-feeding is not an automatic guarantee that a cat will become
>overweight.
I never said that it was; though it is asking for trouble. Why bother?
Get started early with a feeding schedule based on a cat's natural
instincts: one or two satisfying 'catches' a day.
Of course, if you are changing your cat's diet midstream, or you've
acquired an overweight cat, then it is imperative to see the vet --
I agree with you 100 %.
Crossapple
Lee wrote:
>You simply cannot stuff 600-700 calories into an animal
>this size, and expect him to burn it off by walking from
>the living room to the kitchen to the bedroom.
And I don't remember anyone presenting an argument
*defending* overfeeding of animals, Lee. What we took
exception to was your equation of free-feeding with
over-feeding. Any number of people have already
presented you with proof that free-feeding one's cat
does not consign that cat to a life of obesity and
ill health.
And, of course, your lecturing tone leaves
something to be desired. You'll convince more
people of the seriousness of overweight animals'
plight if you present it in a way that's a bit less
likely to get people's backs up.
Carey
--------------------------------------
Susan Mudgett aka little gator
Lee Kokot (ko...@primenet.com) wrote:
: I maintain that much of the hostility stems from a frustration
: at not being able to effectively counter my arguments with any-
: thing other than anecdotes on the one hand and invective on the
: other.
Maybe. In my case the hostility comes fron your response when I
expained that I have a complex situation caused in part by a piggy cat
who chases my other cats away from their food, and you responded,
among other things, "I hate hogs."
I do feel hostile to anyone who tells me they hate one of my family.
HIDDA
> > ko...@primenet.com (Lee Kokot) wrote:
> >
> > >This is a plea to cat owners to stop gorging their cats
> > >with so much food, and to stop using the 'free-feeding'
> > >method of feeding.
> >
My cat free feeds Hill's dry that I buy from the vet. The most he'll
eat is 1/2 cup a day. He weighs in at just under 9 lbs. His ribs don't
show, but you can easily feel them. His vet is happy with his weight
and diet.
Free feeding has worked fine for my cats. My previous cat free fed for
18 years. She was a longhair and her vets were happy too.
What's so wrong with free feeding anyway?
roger day
ur, nothing. Except that, according to my reading of the article, cats
used to have automatic mechanism whereby they ate as much as they wanted
- but stopped. In the post-war period, this mechanism seems to becoming
non-functional in cats, therefore they just eat and eat and eat.
Anyway, that's my understanding of it.
Cheers,
Roger.
--
====================================================================
poetry ( http://www.ssynth.co.uk/~rday/poet_mag.html )
politics ( http://www.McSpotlight.org/ )
pussy ( http://www.ssynth.co.uk/~rday/pussy/ )
"Hey, torquill, are your trolleys on right way round?"
Adam Felson
roger day (ro...@ssynth.co.uk) wrote:
: ur, nothing. Except that, according to my reading of the article, cats
: used to have automatic mechanism whereby they ate as much as they wanted
: - but stopped. In the post-war period, this mechanism seems to becoming
: non-functional in cats, therefore they just eat and eat and eat.
: Anyway, that's my understanding of it.
Can *anyone* confirm this? I've known lots and lots of cats and I've yet
to meet a cat that wouldn't stop eating when it was full.
A dog will eat until it gets sick. A cat will just walk away.
I feed my kitty every morning and there's usually food left over from the
previous day.
Kathy Morris
afe...@rainbow.rmii.com (Adam Felson) wrote:
>Can *anyone* confirm this? I've known lots and lots of cats and I've yet
>to meet a cat that wouldn't stop eating when it was full.
>A dog will eat until it gets sick. A cat will just walk away.
>I feed my kitty every morning and there's usually food left over from the
>previous day.
I have to be very careful with my cat. He has always been free-fed,
and is a little overweight (18 pounds). If his dish gets empty, as
soon as we fill it up, he will gorge himself, go throw-up what he's
just eaten, and then come back and eat until he is full. He does this
every time. I believe that it is because he was starving when he was
found in a dump, and he has never gotten over it. The vet says he's
in perfect health except for his weight, which we are in the process
of containing with W/D
Kathy (kmo...@mindspring.com)
===================
<<God made cats so that man might stroke the tiger>>
===================
Eva Quesnell
On 19 Sep 1996, Adam Felson wrote:
> roger day (ro...@ssynth.co.uk) wrote:
>
> : ur, nothing. Except that, according to my reading of the article, cats
> : used to have automatic mechanism whereby they ate as much as they wanted
> : - but stopped. In the post-war period, this mechanism seems to becoming
> : non-functional in cats, therefore they just eat and eat and eat.
>
> : Anyway, that's my understanding of it.
>
> Can *anyone* confirm this? I've known lots and lots of cats and I've yet
> to meet a cat that wouldn't stop eating when it was full.
>
> A dog will eat until it gets sick. A cat will just walk away.
>
> I feed my kitty every morning and there's usually food left over from the
> previous day.
>
>
I don't understand this either. I've always free-fed my cats, and I've
only had one who got pudgy. I always have to dump the leftovers into
something else so I can wash the dish. I've always known cats to be
nibblers -- a little here, a little there. :)
David Swanson
>HIDDA wrote:
>>
>> > > ko...@primenet.com (Lee Kokot) wrote:
>> > >
>> > > >This is a plea to cat owners to stop gorging their cats
>> > > >with so much food, and to stop using the 'free-feeding'
>> > > >method of feeding.
>> > >
>>
>> My cat free feeds Hill's dry that I buy from the vet. The most he'll
>> eat is 1/2 cup a day. He weighs in at just under 9 lbs. His ribs don't
>> show, but you can easily feel them. His vet is happy with his weight
>> and diet.
>>
>> Free feeding has worked fine for my cats. My previous cat free fed for
>> 18 years. She was a longhair and her vets were happy too.
>>
>> What's so wrong with free feeding anyway?
>
>used to have automatic mechanism whereby they ate as much as they wanted
>- but stopped. In the post-war period, this mechanism seems to becoming
>non-functional in cats, therefore they just eat and eat and eat.
>
>Anyway, that's my understanding of it.
>
>
>Roger.
My neutered male -4 years old- is getting fat. He has a medium frame and
weighs 13 pounds. He sits like a pug dog with his paws wide apart and his
belly sticking out.
At his last yearly check-up last month, I asked the vet if he was getting
too fat. The vet said that at this point he was about right with the extra
cushion he would need if he ever got sick.
I have a friend who has two females who were VERY fat. they are old and
came down with hyperthrod conditions. after all the radiation treatment,
they are now about the right weight. And they are both alive. My skinny
female did not survive her hyperthroidism.
I am convinced by all this that fat cats can have a health advantage.
And their lives are too short not to free feed and give the occaisional
treat.
Hilda
Brenda A. Tighe
>
> HIDDA wrote:
> >
> > > > ko...@primenet.com (Lee Kokot) wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >This is a plea to cat owners to stop gorging their cats
> > > > >with so much food, and to stop using the 'free-feeding'
> > > > >method of feeding.
> > > >
> >
> > My cat free feeds Hill's dry that I buy from the vet. The most he'll
> > eat is 1/2 cup a day. He weighs in at just under 9 lbs. His ribs don't
> > show, but you can easily feel them. His vet is happy with his weight
> > and diet.
> >
> > Free feeding has worked fine for my cats. My previous cat free fed for
> > 18 years. She was a longhair and her vets were happy too.
> >
>
Purrcival free feeds on Hill's Science Diet dry food. Same thing as above:
he only eats about 1/2 cup per day, and he nibbles at that 1/2 cup all day,
just a little at a time. You can feel his ribs and he's *very* solid. At
first glance, he *looks* a bit large, but he has lots of long fur. Once you
get past the fur, there's about 9-1/2 lbs. of cat. He's about 2-1/4 years
old and -- I suspect, although I don't know for sure -- a Maine Coon, so I
don't think that's a bad weight for that age.
Brenda
P.S. Of course, he's *always* interested in what my husband and
I are eating -- especially if it's turkey, ham, or chicken! ;-)
The Magic Mood Jeep
I have 3 cats...al of whick you can feel their ribs....on is a 12 1/2lb tom, a 12lb
grey/siamese mix, and a claico longhair that only wieghs 6lb...all areadopted
stray/giveaways...and we love every one of them.....they share 9 Live dry (1 cup in am,
another in pm IF am food is gone), and an occasional mouse that makes the mistake of
showing up in our house (country near a highway, so all cats stay indoors)
--
The Magic Mood Jeep
--
The ONE and ONLY lefthanded-pathetic-paranoid-psychotic-sarcastic-wiseass-ditzy blonde in
Bloomington! (and proud of it, too)
Miche
In article <32400F...@ssynth.co.uk>
roger day <ro...@ssynth.co.uk> writes:
> > What's so wrong with free feeding anyway?
>
> ur, nothing. Except that, according to my reading of the article, cats
> used to have automatic mechanism whereby they ate as much as they wanted
> - but stopped. In the post-war period, this mechanism seems to becoming
> non-functional in cats, therefore they just eat and eat and eat.
>
> Anyway, that's my understanding of it.
This may be the case for some cats, but it's by no means universal.
Mist has to be free-fed because if she weren't she'd probably starve.
She eats Iams kitten food (she's not quite one) with a little adult
food mixed in, and eats no more than about 1/2 cup a day. I figure
that she's healthy and active, so she just doesn't need any more. The
problem I had with the original post was that the poster seemed to be
equating free feeding with force feeding and for me (and others) that
just did not compute.
Miche
------------
Michelle Campbell <*>
michelle...@stonebow.otago.ac.nz
What I post is my opinion only.
In order to achieve balance, first you need two sides.
dih...@cjnetworks.com
michelle...@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (Miche) wrote:
>Miche
I didn't think free feeding was all that bad. I have to feed mine that
way. He eats just a tiny bit, then goes and does something else, then
comes back later and eats a few mouthfuls, and goes away, and comes
back and so on and so on. Now, leaving wet food out, that's different.
That I give just a couple of spoonfuls at a time so it doesn't sit
out. I think free feeding is fine if it's dry.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Diane & Sterling ~~ dih...@cjnetworks.com
http://www.cjnetworks.com/~dihatsu/
Kenda: BO+AS B C 3 Y+ L W C+ I++ T+++ A+ E+ H++ S++ V+++ F Q P B++ PA PL+
~If a cat spoke, it would say things like,
"Hey, I don't see the problem here." ~ Roy Blount, Jr. ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
AStauf1882
I am the pround owner of a 20lb. Siamese /Main Coon mix. The way she
screams at me, you would think she hasn't eaten in days. She too was
adopted and I've wondered if she thinks the foods going to run out one of
these days. She eats 'till the bowls clean. If we didn't ration her and
limit treats, I think she eat herself silly! The vet. isn't overly
concerned, but did she we should leave food out all day.l