Tom Cat won’t breed with in-season queen!??
dontcountstars
exceptional little guy in great health and I have guarenteed homes for
up to 7 kittens (just so you know im responsible!)
He often calls for a mate...howls etc whatever you like to call it,
yet now the queen is in season he is showing no interest at all. He is
very placid and seems almost worried or frightened when she squats in
front of him waggling her tail and growling excitedly. She has hissed
and smacked him in the past, could this have frightened him off?
I cant understand his complete lack of interest in mating, is it just
because he is inexperienced, or does this suggest it is a lost cause?
Also is there anything at all I can do?
--
Posted at author's request, using moderated http://www.PetForumz.com interface
Thread archive: http://www.PetForumz.com/Tom-Cat-won-breed-season-queen-ftopict72305.html
dgk
wrote:
>I recently got a Queen to breed with my 3 year old tom cat. He is an
>exceptional little guy in great health and I have guarenteed homes for
>up to 7 kittens (just so you know im responsible!)
>
>He often calls for a mate...howls etc whatever you like to call it,
>yet now the queen is in season he is showing no interest at all. He is
>very placid and seems almost worried or frightened when she squats in
>front of him waggling her tail and growling excitedly. She has hissed
>and smacked him in the past, could this have frightened him off?
>
>I cant understand his complete lack of interest in mating, is it just
>because he is inexperienced, or does this suggest it is a lost cause?
>
>Also is there anything at all I can do?
Maybe he's gay. I suppose you'll have him executed for failing to
provide you with saleable kittens?
Phil P.
"dontcountstars" <no...@000.com> wrote in message
news:469773_03485fb6aca0...@petforumz.com...
> I recently got a Queen to breed with my 3 year old tom cat. He is an
> exceptional little guy in great health and I have guarenteed homes for
> up to 7 kittens (just so you know im responsible!)
How's that being responsible??? You're taking homes away from 7 kittens
that have already been born!
Do the feline species a favor- have him neutered.
Riannon via CatKB.com
>I recently got a Queen to breed with my 3 year old tom cat. He is an
>exceptional little guy in great health and I have guarenteed homes for
>up to 7 kittens (just so you know im responsible!)
Yes, you can get them spayed and neutered and not contribute to the
overpopulation of pets in this world. There are both ethical and medical
reasons why you should not have unaltered pets: Being a "responsible" pet
owner means not letting your pets mate with eachother:
http://www.vospca.org/archive/spayneut.html
http://www.hsus.org/pets/pet_care/why_you_should_spay_or_neuter_your_pet.html
Riannon
--
Message posted via CatKB.com
http://www.catkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/cat-health/200806/1
cybercat
> exceptional little guy in great health and I have guarenteed homes for
> up to 7 kittens (just so you know im responsible!)
>
There are at least 700 million beautiful cats and kittens who need homes
now.
ASSHOLE.
Phil P.
Probably because he doesn't want his offspring- or the offspring of his
offspring- or their offspring to end up here:
http://maxshouse.com/Do_you_still_want_to_breed_your_cat.jpg
or here:
http://maxshouse.com/convinced_not%20_to_breed_yet.jpg
Still want to breed him?
dontcountstars
Both cats are top quality pedigree from champion lines with health
checks and excellent temperament, and the people who want them aren’t
interested in non-pedigree/non-show kittens. That is their choice, and
something you would have to speak to them about. I am only interested
in finding top quality homes for any kittens I breed, and making sure
I do my part to only breed from the best possible cats, so as to
further the progression of the breed.
Just so you know, I also am well aware of the problem with
overpopulation, I do a lot of volutary work at the local animal
sanctuary on a weekly basis, I foster cats for the Cats Protection
League, rehabilitating those who have been abused and are scared of
people, and hand rearing unwanted kittens, then I advertise and rehome
them, after personally paying for all of their vaccinations so as to
help out the charity even more, and all in my spare time. I also
regularly perform fundraisers for the UK animal charities, in the form
of raffles, car boot sales, sponsered events and so on, and also work
for free on the cat buses which go round the area performing free
neuterings. (I’m a qualified veterinary nurse) Do you do anything to
help, other than harrass people online?
Pedigree breedings are not to blame for overpopulation and abandoned
animals, and without the continuation of the many hundreds of year old
pedigree lines, these breeds would completely die out and become
extinct, which would be a terrible loss for mankind.
So really, I resent your assumption that I am an irresponsible,
morally bankrupt person, and feel that perhaps you should not jump to
conclusions next time, and also work on a better way to get your
message across, other than being inappropriately rude when someone
asks an innocent question.
Have a nice day :)
Matthew
"dontcountstars" <no...@000.com> wrote in message
news:470395_778fc3252a3d...@0000.com...
CatNipped
> neuterings. (I'm a qualified veterinary nurse) Do you do anything to
> help, other than harrass people online?
He he he! Got a couple of days to read a list of all that Phil P. does to
help cats?
>
> Pedigree breedings are not to blame for overpopulation and abandoned
> animals, and without the continuation of the many hundreds of year old
> pedigree lines, these breeds would completely die out and become
> extinct, which would be a terrible loss for mankind.
Which pedigree charactersitics are so beneficial to the cat population that
they should be perpetuated?
The smushed-in face of the Persian and Himalayan that causes problems like
breathing distress, eye tearing, and malocclusions? As a result of their
short and concave underlying facial bone structure, the lacrimal sac and the
nasolacrimal duct of most Persian cats is blocked at the lacrimal puncta,
causing an excessive coagulation of debris and an overflow of tears from the
lacrimal glands. Excessive tearing is a common characteristic of Persian
and Himalayan cats and is caused by abnormal drainage of tears and may
result in epiphora. The two lacrimal puncta are the small openings to the
canaliculi (ducts) leading to the lacrimal sac. The nasolacrimal duct drains
the sac into the nose. The ducts of the lacrimal system are already very
small in felines and the facial conformation of extremely short-nosed,
large-eyed cats, namely Persians and Himalayans, is the single most common
cause of occlusion (blockage) of the lacrimal system and resulting abnormal
drainage of tears. Consequently, because of the epiphora and the blocked
lacrimal system, Persian and Himalayan cats suffer from chronic eye
infections. Bacteria build up in the obstructed lacrimal passages and thrive
on the debris deposited from the coagulated tears, inducing chronic
conjunctivitis, with characteristic symptoms such as a brown, mucus-like
discharge from the eye, blinking, and an exposed third eyelid. Persians are
also prone to Autosomal Dominant Polycystic Kidney Disease.
How about the skeletal and other problems of Munchkins? A skeletal
condition called thoracic lordosis, causes back pain and pressure. Munchkins
are predisposed to compressions in the chest, which can put pressure on the
heart and lungs with sometime deadly results. They're also predisposed to
radial hypoplasia.
The Osteochondrodysplasia in Scottish Fold cats? If Scottish fold cats are
mated to other Scottish fold cats, many of the offspring developed a severe
crippling lameness early in life. Cats so affected had shortened, malformed
legs and radiographic abnormalities affecting the growth plates that could
be readily appreciated. As a result of this discovery, the breed was
outlawed by the Cat Fancy in the UK. Recent work conducted in Australia has
confirmed earlier work that the cartilage defect that causes the ears of
these cats to fold is transmitted as an autosomal dominant trait, but
established for the first time that heterozygous Scottish Fold cats
invariably become afflicted by a progressive arthritis that varies in
severity from Fold to Fold.
There is also Autosomal Recessive Problems in Devon Rex cats if you don't
like any of the above. Two important autosomally recessive conditions have
been reported in Devon Rex cats, and interestingly the research concerning
these diseases has been done mostly in Australia. 'Spasticity' as it is
known to breeders, refers to a congenital myopathy somewhat similar to the
human condition limb girdle muscular dystrophy. Work done in the UK
established that the condition was inherited in an autosomal recessive
fashion with complete penetrance. Affected cats usually show obvious signs
of a locomotor problem when six to 20 weeks of age. Muscle weakness is the
predominant feature, with prominent ventroflexion of the head and neck,
dorsal protrusion of the scapulae, head bobbing, megaoesophagus and
pharyngeal weakness. Affected cats have a generally unsatisfactory quality
of life and are at risk of sudden death due to obstruction of the
pharynx/larynx with food. Detailed studies done in collaboration with
Professor Clive Harper have shown the underlying problem to be a primary
muscle disorder, although the molecular basis of the condition has not yet
been determined.
Oh, hell, here's a list compiled for you including some I missed in the
above (data taken from Medical, Genetic, & Behavioral Aspects of Purebred
Cats; Ross D.Clark, DVM, Forum Publications, Fairway Kansas, 1992)...
Abyssinians? Renal amyloidosis, retinal atrophy, psychogenic alopecia,
patellarluxation.
American Shorthair? Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, polycystic kidney disease,
mucopolysaccharosidosis.
Bengal? Entropion.
Birman? Hip dysplasia, epibulbar dermoids
British Shorthair? Hemophilia
Burmese? Ocular dermoids, primary endocaridal
fibroelastosis,meningoencephalocele, keratoconjunctivitis sicca, erosion of
cartilage of third eyelid,lethal midfacial malformation.
Chartreux? Patellar luxation, hip dysplasia.
Cornish Rex? Hypothyroidism, hypotrichosis.
Devon Rex? Hypothyroidism, patellar luxation, hip dysplasia, hypotrichosis,
spasticity (prevents swallowing).
Himalayan? Cataracts, psychogenic alopecia, cutaneous asthenia, polycystic
kidneydisease.
Korat? Gangliosidosis.
Maine Coon? Pectus excavatum, patellar luxation, hip dysplasia,
hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.
Manx? Spina bifida, atresia ani, rectal prolapse, corneal dystrophy.
Persian? Chediak-Higashi syndrome, congenital ankyloblepharon,
entropion,congenital epiphora, primary glaucoma, mannosidosis, seborrhea,
polycystic kidneydisease, peripheral pseudocysts, patellar luxation, hip
dysplasia.
Ragdoll? Hypertrophic cardiomyopathyScottish Fold. Severe vertebral
abnormalities, prognathis, incapacitating joint diseasewith fold to fold
breeding, polycystic kidney disease.
Siamese? Feline hyperesthesia syndrome, feline endocrine alopecia,
adenocarcinomasof the small intestine, mucopolysaccharidosis,
gangliosidosis, malignant mammarytumors, numerous congenital heart defects
(PDA, aortic stenosis, AV valve malformation, pyloric stenosis, etc),
primary endocardial fibroelastosis, strabismus,nystagmus, sphingomyelinosis,
hydrocephalus, asthma, mast cell tumors, cutaneousasthenia, esophageal
hypomotility, cutaneous mastocytomas, hypotrichosis, glaucoma,cervical neck
lesions, hip dysplasia Somali.GingivitisSphinx.Spasticity, alopecia
universalis.
Tonkinese? Susceptible to upper respiratory infection, sensitivity to
vaccines.
Yes, indeed, there are so many reasons to keep breeding "pure-bred" cats
until, like over-bred dogs, every single breed has its concommitant (usually
painful, often deadly) defects - while perfectly healthy moggies are
euthanized for want of a home.
Hugs,
CatNipped
>
> So really, I resent your assumption that I am an irresponsible,
> morally bankrupt person, and feel that perhaps you should not jump to
> conclusions next time, and also work on a better way to get your
> message across, other than being inappropriately rude when someone
> asks an innocent question.
There was no assumption, only fact - and *I* resent *you* and all you stand
for.
cybercat
"CatNipped" <CatN...@PossiblePlaces.com> wrote in message
news:6dfavpF...@mid.individual.net...
> "dontcountstars" <no...@000.com> wrote in message
> news:470395_778fc3252a3d...@0000.com...
>
>> neuterings. (I'm a qualified veterinary nurse) Do you do anything to
>> help, other than harrass people online?
>
> He he he! Got a couple of days to read a list of all that Phil P. does to
> help cats?
>
[Snips CN's excellent, detailed, thoughtful and accurate post.]
Good work! You will notice that I just killfile these assholes. I am
glad someone can be bothered to try to talk some sense into them.
I get too upset when I try, and when Mama ain't happy ain't
NOBODY happy. (In other words, I have to stop making assholes
like this so mad they try to hunt me down and hurt my feelings.)
:)
cybercat
"CatNipped" <CatN...@PossiblePlaces.com> wrote >
> Yes, indeed, there are so many reasons to keep breeding "pure-bred" cats
> until, like over-bred dogs, every single breed has its concommitant
> (usually painful, often deadly) defects - while perfectly healthy moggies
> are euthanized for want of a home.
>
This be mah favrit part. :)
CatNipped
news:g4ttcj$rd3$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
Thanks. I know I shouldn't bother replying because it will do absolutely no
good, but every once in a while I can't help myself, I just have to scream
to the heavens and hope logic prevails! ;>
Hugs,
CatNipped
CatNipped
Oh no - you should take pride in what you do best! I *wish* I had your
ability to skewer the terminally stupid! ;>
Hugs,
CatNipped
cybercat
"CatNipped" <CatN...@PossiblePlaces.com> wrote in message
No, it is really good that you are willing to do this. I wish I were not too
disgusted
to bother. You do more good than I do.
cybercat
"CatNipped" <CatN...@PossiblePlaces.com> wrote in message
admire your dedication.
CatNipped
Thanks, I just wish I had the time and resources to put words to action like
Phil does - he's the real hero!
Hugs,
CatNipped
CatNipped
news:Xns9AD4AC8...@216.196.97.136...
> On Mon 07 Jul 2008 04:00:55p, CatNipped wrote in
> rec.pets.cats.health+behav
> <news:6dfavpF...@mid.individual.net>:
>
>> Which pedigree charactersitics are so beneficial to the cat
>> population that they should be perpetuated?
>
> computer problems. lol
>
> Great post. Not to mention the health risks to queen including
> pyometra and mammary cancer.
>
> Another another thing, don't "reputable" breeders have resources
> other than a newsgroup to ask these questions? The same old MO. They
> ask a question and then when challenged they post the "missing" info
> to make themselves feel better. pfft.
>
>
> --
> Cheryl
What breeders - both legitimate and backyard - don't seem to get is the
extrapolation from the data I posted. The breeds with the most / worst
defects are the "older" breeds like the Persian and Siamese - the ones who
have been bred the longest. Ergo, the more you breed for specific traits
(inbreeding if truth be told), the worse you make it the breed - and the
more tragic the consequences for the cat.
Another thing that drives me crazy is when breeders say, "Well my clients
don't want a moggie, they will only buy a pure-bred". Well, how wonderful
would it be if the people who only want pure-bred status symbols won't have
a cat to abuse or throw away if it goes out of "style", and only people who
truly love cats and want to add a member to their families are the only ones
who *get* cats!
*SIGH* I'm preaching to the choir, I know!
Hugs,
CatNipped
Phil P.
> Thankyou for your misjudged replies,
I'd say my replies were right on target. You welcome.
> however I'm doing nothing wrong.
As long as you're breeding cats while cats are dying in shelters because
there aren't enough homes- you can bet your "irresponsible,
morally bankrupt" ass you're doing something wrong.
<snip- not interested your opinion of your cats' credentials>
I am only interested
> in finding top quality homes for any kittens I breed,
...and every top quality home you find for your intentionally bred cats, is
one home less for a cat languishing in a shelter where she'll be eventually
killed.
and making sure
> I do my part to only breed from the best possible cats,
If you want to do your part for the feline species- don't breed any more
cats.
so as to
> further the progression of the breed.
"Progression of the breed"... sounds like a phrase straight out of Mein
Kampf. The cats don't need you to further the progression of the species.
They were doing just fine before you circle-jerking 50-cent geneticists
started "improving" them. Your kind really "improved" the Himalayans... and
the Persians... and the Siamese, didn't you? You bred genetic defects into
those breeds that never before exisited in nature.
If you really want to further the progression of the breed-- leeeaaavvveee
them the fuck alone.
>
> Just so you know, I also am well aware of the problem with
> overpopulation,
You are? And you *still* want to breed more cats??? Whar are you, a moron or
just a "irresponsible, morally bankrupt person"?
I do a lot of volutary work at the local animal
> sanctuary
...between breeding more cats? What do you there? Try to make room for the
cats whose homes were displaced by your kittens?
>(I'm a qualified veterinary nurse)
Credentials don't guarantee credibility- one can exist without the other.
You're a shining example! You're a "qualified veterinary nurse" and you have
to come to a newsgroup to ask a stupid question? How did you get your
credentials? From a matchbook cover?
Do you do anything to
> help, other than harrass people online?
Yeah, I do- but I'm not doing it right now because I'm harrassing you for
contributing to the cat overpopulation problem.
>
> Pedigree breedings are not to blame for overpopulation and abandoned
> animals,
Naaa, you just contribute to the overpopulation problem. You're just like a
fool who pours gas on a fire and doesn't take responsibility for the damage
because he didn't start the fire.
and without the continuation of the many hundreds of year old
> pedigree lines, these breeds would completely die out and become
> extinct, which would be a terrible loss for mankind.
Half of those breeds didn't exist in nature to begin with, - and the other
half have genetic defects from circle-jerking, 50-cent geneticists like you
trying to "improve" the breeds.
>
> So really, I resent your assumption that I am an irresponsible,
> morally bankrupt person,
I'm glad to hear it! After reading your reply, I see my assumption was
correct!
and feel that perhaps you should not jump to
> conclusions next time,
Why not? My conclusions were correct.
and also work on a better way to get your
> message across,
I *have* a better way. But if you don't like this way, you damn sure
wouldn't like my "better way"..
other than being inappropriately rude when someone
> asks an innocent question.
Its impossible to be "inappropriately rude" to a breeder- I could never be
rude enough to a breeder-- and I'm really good at being rude!
The only good thing about breeders is no matter what I say or do to them- I
*never* feel bad about it- I feel the same way about animal abusers.
CatNipped
news:Z%Cck.350$rb1.46@trndny08...
> "Progression of the breed"... sounds like a phrase straight out of Mein
> Kampf. The cats don't need you to further the progression of the species.
> They were doing just fine before you circle-jerking 50-cent geneticists
> started "improving" them. Your kind really "improved" the Himalayans...
> and
> the Persians... and the Siamese, didn't you? You bred genetic defects into
> those breeds that never before exisited in nature.
>
> If you really want to further the progression of the breed-- leeeaaavvveee
> them the fuck alone.
I don't want to waste any more time on the moron you're replying to, but I
just had to add my two cents to this. How in *HELL* can anyone "improve"
nature's perfect predator??!
Hubris!
Hugs,
CatNipped
Janet
for ethical breeders as there are in the dog world; for example, all pets
must be sold with a spay/neuter contract, genetic testing appropriate for
the breed must be done before breeding, any puppy must be returned to the
breeder for rehoming if the owner is not able to keep it at any time during
its life, and so forth.
Is there such a thing in the cat world?
Janet Boss
"CatNipped" <CatN...@PossiblePlaces.com> wrote:
>
> Yes, indeed, there are so many reasons to keep breeding "pure-bred" cats
> until, like over-bred dogs, every single breed has its concommitant (usually
> painful, often deadly) defects - while perfectly healthy moggies are
> euthanized for want of a home.
To believe that mixed breed dogs and cats are without health issues is
to be wearing blinders. I've never owned a purebred cat, but my first
cat died from cardiomyopathy at barely 10. Apparently she hadn't heard
about "hybrid vigor".
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
Janet Boss
"CatNipped" <CatN...@PossiblePlaces.com> wrote:
> Well, how wonderful
> would it be if the people who only want pure-bred status symbols
Do you really believe that "status" is the reason to get a certain pet?
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
boot
you are emitting distracting vibes with your intense and anxious
interest. Anyway, he's probably done it by now. But if this is his
first opportunity to mate at the age of three, he has missed out on
two and a half years experience, so maybe he's just not habituated to
jump on top of a female right off the bat.
> Thread archive:http://www.PetForumz.com/Tom-Cat-won-breed-season-queen-ftopict72305....
Janet Boss
wrote:
>
> As long as you're breeding cats while cats are dying in shelters because
> there aren't enough homes- you can bet your "irresponsible,
> morally bankrupt" ass you're doing something wrong.
Not if the OP is contributing to that shelter population with
responsible breeding practices. Sorry - I don't think there is the
slightest thing wrong with wanting a responsibly bred animal. Go after
the folks who aren't. They're the ones filling shelters.
>
> ...and every top quality home you find for your intentionally bred cats, is
> one home less for a cat languishing in a shelter where she'll be eventually
> killed.
>
A fallacy,
<snip a bunch of other extremist views>
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
Janet Boss
Janet Boss <ja...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> wrote:
>
> Not if the OP is contributing
UGH - that should have read ISN'T.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
CatNipped
news:janet-7847C8....@news.individual.net...
> In article <6dff3vF...@mid.individual.net>,
> "CatNipped" <CatN...@PossiblePlaces.com> wrote:
>
>> Well, how wonderful
>> would it be if the people who only want pure-bred status symbols
>
> Do you really believe that "status" is the reason to get a certain pet?
For people who purchase a pure-bred cat? Yes! Why else get a cat that very
probably will have severe health problems, pay a fortune for it, and allow a
healthy moggie to die in a shelter rather than adopt it instead? Cat shows
are just a chance snobs to show off those status symbols to other snobs and
then display their prizes to other snobs.
And before you claim that pure-breds have certain personality traits - I
call BS. Any personality trait found in a pure-bred cat can be found in a
moggie as well. And people who adopt a moggie from a shelter are certainly
*not* looking for just a status symbol - it's a hundred times more likely
that they're just looking for a addition to their family instead to love and
not a prize to show off.
Hugs,
CatNipped
>
> --
> Janet Boss
> www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
Janet Boss
"CatNipped" <CatN...@PossiblePlaces.com> wrote:
>
> For people who purchase a pure-bred cat? Yes! Why else get a cat that very
> probably will have severe health problems, pay a fortune for it, and allow a
> healthy moggie to die in a shelter rather than adopt it instead? Cat shows
> are just a chance snobs to show off those status symbols to other snobs and
> then display their prizes to other snobs.
>
> And before you claim that pure-breds have certain personality traits - I
> call BS.
Very probably? What are your statistics on likelihood of severe health
problems in purebred cats vs mixed breed cats? I've only had mixed
breed cats. They've all had health problems. 2 of them had severe
health problems. I'm pretty sure I've spent many times more on their
health than I would have paid for purebred cat.
Who said anything about cat shows? There may be many reasons to own a
purebred cat. How about allergy issues (for the human)? I know several
people who have Siberians due to allergy issues. They love being able
to have a cat and still breathe (a little issue maybe, but.....).
Lastly, where are the [actual] statistics that say that if someone
cannot purchases a purebred kitten, that they'll adopt a shelter cat
instead? That argument doesn't hold water for cats anymore than it does
for dogs.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
CatNipped
*SIGH* I see you conveniently snipped my list of breed defects - that's ok,
I'll just add it back in for you...
Abyssinians? Renal amyloidosis, retinal atrophy, psychogenic alopecia,
patellarluxation.
American Shorthair? Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, polycystic kidney disease,
mucopolysaccharosidosis.
Bengal? Entropion.
Birman? Hip dysplasia, epibulbar dermoids
British Shorthair? Hemophilia
Burmese? Ocular dermoids, primary endocaridal fibroelastosis,
meningoencephalocele, keratoconjunctivitis sicca, erosion of cartilage of
third eyelid, lethal midfacial malformation.
Chartreux? Patellar luxation, hip dysplasia.
Cornish Rex? Hypothyroidism, hypotrichosis.
Devon Rex? Hypothyroidism, patellar luxation, hip dysplasia, hypotrichosis,
spasticity (prevents swallowing).
Himalayan? Cataracts, psychogenic alopecia, cutaneous asthenia, polycystic
kidneydisease.
Korat? Gangliosidosis.
Maine Coon? Pectus excavatum, patellar luxation, hip dysplasia,
hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.
Manx? Spina bifida, atresia ani, rectal prolapse, corneal dystrophy.
Persian? Chediak-Higashi syndrome, congenital ankyloblepharon, entropion,
congenital epiphora, primary glaucoma, mannosidosis, seborrhea,
polycystic kidney disease, peripheral pseudocysts, patellar luxation, hip
dysplasia.
Ragdoll? Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.
Scottish Fold? Severe vertebral abnormalities, prognathis, incapacitating
joint diseasewith fold to fold breeding, polycystic kidney disease.
Siamese? Feline hyperesthesia syndrome, feline endocrine alopecia,
adenocarcinomasof the small intestine, mucopolysaccharidosis,
gangliosidosis, malignant mammary tumors, numerous congenital heart defects
(PDA, aortic stenosis, AV valve malformation, pyloric stenosis, etc),
primary endocardial fibroelastosis, strabismus, nystagmus,
sphingomyelinosis, hydrocephalus, asthma, mast cell tumors,
cutaneousasthenia, esophageal hypomotility, cutaneous mastocytomas,
hypotrichosis, glaucoma, cervical neck lesions, hip dysplasia
Somali? Gingivitis.
Sphinx? Spasticity, alopecia universalis.
Tonkinese? Susceptible to upper respiratory infection, sensitivity to
vaccines.
Do moggies sometimes have health problems - DUH! Do moggies have the number
and severity of health problems as pure-breds? NO! Is there any other
reason to breed these defects into companion animals except vanity? *NO*
*NO* *NO*. Even dog breeding has more of an excuse to exist because there
*are* breeds of dogs that serve useful, practical purposes (herding dogs,
rat terriers, etc.). But pure-bred cats have one purpose and one purpose
only - an expensive possession to show off to other snobs.
Hugs,
CatNipped
Janet Boss
"CatNipped" <CatN...@PossiblePlaces.com> wrote:
>
> Do moggies sometimes have health problems - DUH! Do moggies have the number
> and severity of health problems as pure-breds? NO!
Where is the data?
> Is there any other
> reason to breed these defects into companion animals except vanity? *NO*
> *NO* *NO*.
What are the odds of any given cat having those health problems?
Purebred vs mixed. Just because a health problem may be more likely in
some breeds doesn't make it a given, nor does it exclude mixed breeds.
> But pure-bred cats have one purpose and one purpose
> only - an expensive possession to show off to other snobs.
I disagree. *If* I were ever to get another cat (not planning on that
now, but my one is not quite 7, so hopefully he'll be around for many
years), it would probably be a Siberian. With my allergies, it
wouldn't be wise to continue to get mixed breed cats.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
cybercat
> In article <6dhobgF...@mid.individual.net>,
> "CatNipped" <CatN...@PossiblePlaces.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Do moggies sometimes have health problems - DUH! Do moggies have the
>> number
>> and severity of health problems as pure-breds? NO!
>
> Where is the data?
>
You cannot be serious.
Do your own fucking research.
You have to be a complete idiot not to know that reducing the gene pool
the way so many breeders have results in genetic abnormalities and
predilections to disease and deformity.
CatNipped
> In article <6dhnrsF...@mid.individual.net>,
> "CatNipped" <CatN...@PossiblePlaces.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> For people who purchase a pure-bred cat? Yes! Why else get a cat that
>> very
>> probably will have severe health problems, pay a fortune for it, and
>> allow a
>> healthy moggie to die in a shelter rather than adopt it instead? Cat
>> shows
>> are just a chance snobs to show off those status symbols to other snobs
>> and
>> then display their prizes to other snobs.
>>
>> And before you claim that pure-breds have certain personality traits - I
>> call BS.
>
> Very probably? What are your statistics on likelihood of severe health
> problems in purebred cats vs mixed breed cats?
Medical, Genetic, & Behavioral Aspects of Purebred Cats; Ross D.Clark, DVM,
Forum Publications, Fairway Kansas, 1992
> I've only had mixed
> breed cats. They've all had health problems. 2 of them had severe
> health problems. I'm pretty sure I've spent many times more on their
> health than I would have paid for purebred cat.
Experiential data from a limited sample is not a very scientific proof. Do
moggies sometimes have health problems? Yes. Do pure-breds have *MORE*
health problems than moggies? *YES*
>
> Who said anything about cat shows? There may be many reasons to own a
> purebred cat. How about allergy issues (for the human)? I know several
> people who have Siberians due to allergy issues. They love being able
> to have a cat and still breathe (a little issue maybe, but.....).
I don't buy it. My allergist told me I have the most severe allergies to
cats that he's ever seen. I love cats (all cats, not just somebody's idea
of a "pretty" cat), so I take allergy pills every day.
>
> Lastly, where are the [actual] statistics that say that if someone
> cannot purchases a purebred kitten, that they'll adopt a shelter cat
> instead? That argument doesn't hold water for cats anymore than it does
> for dogs.
I really *hope* they don't. Someone who wants a pure-bred cat is not, in my
opinion, fit to own the epitome of predatory perfect that is a moggie. If
they are so worried that their cat doesn't match their furniture that they
refuse to accept a moggie in their life, all moggies are better off because
of it!
cybercat
"Janet Boss" <ja...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> wrote:
>
> I disagree. *If* I were ever to get another cat (not planning on that
> now, but my one is not quite 7, so hopefully he'll be around for many
> years), it would probably be a Siberian. With my allergies, it
> wouldn't be wise to continue to get mixed breed cats.
>
That's great, asswipe. Just don't think you can support breeding in a
group of people who actually love cats without being told that you are
a cat abusing, shallow, superficial bitch.
Who should never, ever get another cat.
(I am allergic to cats, but that would never move me to support
breeders. I take this brand new weird and wonderful thing called
ALLERGY MEDICINE and enjoy nartural, mixed breed cats, not
sickly freaks. You ARE a breeder, hence the argument. How many
dogs have you run into the ground making a buck?
Janet Boss
"cybercat" <cyber...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Do your own fucking research.
Well, aren't you little Miss Sunshine?
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
Janet Boss
"CatNipped" <CatN...@PossiblePlaces.com> wrote:
>
> I don't buy it. My allergist told me I have the most severe allergies to
> cats that he's ever seen. I love cats (all cats, not just somebody's idea
> of a "pretty" cat), so I take allergy pills every day.
You're a very small sample. How I wish that "allergy pills" did the
trick. I don't think you know enough about allergies and apparently you
wouldn't dream of being friendly to someone who chose a purebred cat, so
I guess any success stories with Siberians vs other cats wouldn't be
something you're ever likely to believe.
>
> >
> > Lastly, where are the [actual] statistics that say that if someone
> > cannot purchases a purebred kitten, that they'll adopt a shelter cat
> > instead? That argument doesn't hold water for cats anymore than it does
> > for dogs.
>
> I really *hope* they don't. Someone who wants a pure-bred cat is not, in my
> opinion, fit to own the epitome of predatory perfect that is a moggie.
Ah yes - I called that right in my answer, above. Wow.
> If
> they are so worried that their cat doesn't match their furniture that they
> refuse to accept a moggie in their life, all moggies are better off because
> of it!
Nothing to do with matching furniture. You are fulfilling a horrid AR
agenda here. I find that so disappointing. Real facts, real concerns
and real action are so much better than hysteria and banning.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
Janet Boss
"cybercat" <cyber...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Just don't think you can support breeding in a
> group of people who actually love cats without being told that you are
> a cat abusing, shallow, superficial bitch.
Nope - never abused a cat, not shallow nor superficial - I THINK instead
of fall prey to ARistas. And, I love cats.
>
> Who should never, ever get another cat.
Perhaps not. But not because I don't care about them.
>
> (I am allergic to cats, but that would never move me to support
> breeders. I take this brand new weird and wonderful thing called
> ALLERGY MEDICINE
I don't think you have a clue what I do.
>and enjoy nartural, mixed breed cats, not
> sickly freaks. You ARE a breeder, hence the argument. How many
> dogs have you run into the ground making a buck?
I don't breed dogs or cats.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
CatNipped
> In article <6dhobgF...@mid.individual.net>,
> "CatNipped" <CatN...@PossiblePlaces.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Do moggies sometimes have health problems - DUH! Do moggies have the
>> number
>> and severity of health problems as pure-breds? NO!
>
> Where is the data?
*SIGH* Medical, Genetic, & Behavioral Aspects of Purebred Cats; Ross
D.Clark, DVM, Forum Publications, Fairway Kansas, 1992 (for the third or
fourth time - quit snipping it) among many, MANY others - if you can't see
the common sense logic that inbreeding causes defects, and the more inbred a
breed, the more defects it has (which is the reason Siamese and Persians,
the "oldest" breeds of cats, have MANY more health problems than "younger"
breeds). I'm not going to entertain your obtuseness on this matter any
more, how many times to I have to type this before you will perceive the
obvious?
>
>> Is there any other
>> reason to breed these defects into companion animals except vanity? *NO*
>> *NO* *NO*.
>
> What are the odds of any given cat having those health problems?
> Purebred vs mixed. Just because a health problem may be more likely in
> some breeds doesn't make it a given, nor does it exclude mixed breeds.
"Google" is your friend, try using it!
>
>> But pure-bred cats have one purpose and one purpose
>> only - an expensive possession to show off to other snobs.
>
> I disagree. *If* I were ever to get another cat (not planning on that
> now, but my one is not quite 7, so hopefully he'll be around for many
> years), it would probably be a Siberian. With my allergies, it
> wouldn't be wise to continue to get mixed breed cats.
There's this new thing around called "allergy pills" - if you are selfish
enough to encourage, endorse and support the breeding of cats to the
detriment of cats as a whole rather than simply taking a daily dose of
antihistame, you are too selfish to own a cat.
Janet Boss
"CatNipped" <CatN...@PossiblePlaces.com> wrote:
>
> There's this new thing around called "allergy pills" - if you are selfish
> enough to encourage, endorse and support the breeding of cats to the
> detriment of cats as a whole rather than simply taking a daily dose of
> antihistame, you are too selfish to own a cat.
You snip very well. I do a whole lot more than take a daily dose of
antihistamine. RESPONSIBLE breeding (which entails a whole lot of
concerns) is not to the detriment of cats as a whole. The savior
complex sure wears blinders.
BTW - before you start on shelter and rescue work - I've been doing it
for many years now.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
CatNipped
> In article <6dhp3kF...@mid.individual.net>,
> "CatNipped" <CatN...@PossiblePlaces.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> I don't buy it. My allergist told me I have the most severe allergies to
>> cats that he's ever seen. I love cats (all cats, not just somebody's
>> idea
>> of a "pretty" cat), so I take allergy pills every day.
>
> You're a very small sample. How I wish that "allergy pills" did the
> trick. I don't think you know enough about allergies and apparently you
> wouldn't dream of being friendly to someone who chose a purebred cat, so
> I guess any success stories with Siberians vs other cats wouldn't be
> something you're ever likely to believe.
You're talking to someone who has to have an Epi-pen on her person 24/7 -
yes, I know about allergies. Even allergy pills aren't 100% effective on
me, so I have a runny nose, eyes and sneeze a lot - so what. I wouldn't
support the breeding of cats to the detriment of cats just to keep from
sneezing. So, no, I'm not likely to believe that. If you want to breed
deformities into cats just to stop your nose from running, but a stuffed
cat!
>
>>
>> >
>> > Lastly, where are the [actual] statistics that say that if someone
>> > cannot purchases a purebred kitten, that they'll adopt a shelter cat
>> > instead? That argument doesn't hold water for cats anymore than it
>> > does
>> > for dogs.
>>
>> I really *hope* they don't. Someone who wants a pure-bred cat is not, in
>> my
>> opinion, fit to own the epitome of predatory perfect that is a moggie.
>
> Ah yes - I called that right in my answer, above. Wow.
Good for you, you got at least ONE thing right - too bad everything else
you've said is BS.
>
>> If
>> they are so worried that their cat doesn't match their furniture that
>> they
>> refuse to accept a moggie in their life, all moggies are better off
>> because
>> of it!
>
> Nothing to do with matching furniture. You are fulfilling a horrid AR
> agenda here. I find that so disappointing. Real facts, real concerns
> and real action are so much better than hysteria and banning.
LOL! "Hysteria"? No. Ailurophilia? Yes. Banning selfish people who want
pretty possessions from owning a sensate being? I can only wish!
CatNipped
> In article <6dhpohF...@mid.individual.net>,
> "CatNipped" <CatN...@PossiblePlaces.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> There's this new thing around called "allergy pills" - if you are selfish
>> enough to encourage, endorse and support the breeding of cats to the
>> detriment of cats as a whole rather than simply taking a daily dose of
>> antihistame, you are too selfish to own a cat.
>
> You snip very well. I do a whole lot more than take a daily dose of
> antihistamine. RESPONSIBLE breeding (which entails a whole lot of
> concerns) is not to the detriment of cats as a whole. The savior
> complex sure wears blinders.
Not as big as the blinders you're wearing sweetheart - oh, yeah, that's
right, you snipped again so you can't see the evidence before your eyes.
>
> BTW - before you start on shelter and rescue work - I've been doing it
> for many years now.
Please stop! Cats don't need friends like you, baby girl.
CatNipped
> In article <Z%Cck.350$rb1.46@trndny08>, "Phil P." <ph...@maxshouse.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> As long as you're breeding cats while cats are dying in shelters because
>> there aren't enough homes- you can bet your "irresponsible,
>> morally bankrupt" ass you're doing something wrong.
>
>
> Not if the OP is contributing to that shelter population with
> responsible breeding practices.
ROTFLMAO! Your Freudian slip is showing there, honey. Yes, the OP is very
progbably contributing to that shelter population with his breeding
practices - all breeders do which is one of the reasons millions of healthy
cats are put to death every year in the US alone.
Hugs,
CatNipped
Janet Boss
"CatNipped" <CatN...@PossiblePlaces.com> wrote:
> very
> progbably contributing to that shelter population with his breeding
> practices - all breeders do which is one of the reasons millions of healthy
> cats are put to death every year in the US alone.
Really? Shelters are full of responsibly bred dogs and cats? Your
"data" seems non-existent. That's AR for ya. So sorry that it's alive
and thriving on ignorance.
To the OP - you need some closer mentors for advice. Public forums are
likely to bring some pretty harsh criticism. I have no way of knowing
how responsible a breeder you are. I support responsible breeding of
cats and dogs, and shun irresponsible breeding. I am confused by those
who actually support the irresponsible by not going after the real
problems, but bitch about purebred breeding instead.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
-mhd
>Lastly, where are the [actual] statistics that say that if someone
>cannot purchases a purebred kitten, that they'll adopt a shelter cat
>instead? That argument doesn't hold water for cats anymore than it does
>for dogs.
It's a given that once they have their breeder pet they *won't* go to a shelter and save a
life.
-mhd
Janet Boss
-mhd <not_...@invalid.com> wrote:
>
> It's a given that once they have their breeder pet they *won't* go to a
> shelter and save a
> life.
What data is that?
First, you're assuming that someone who got a purebred cat intends to
breed it. There is not data to support that assumption.
Second, why wouldn't someone have a purebred animal and a
shelter/rescue/mixed breed animal? Why is that a "given"?
FTR - I currently have 1 cat (shelter mixed breed), 3 dogs - 1 shelter
mixed breed, 1 shelter/breed rescue poorly bred (pet shop) purebred, 1
purebred puppy (OMG - she's intact - run for the hills!). Apparently
your "given" isn't so given.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
Robotech_Master
<CatN...@PossiblePlaces.com> wrote:
> Yes! Why else get a cat that very probably will have severe health
> problems, pay a fortune for it, and allow a healthy moggie to die
> in a shelter rather than adopt it instead? Cat shows are just a
> chance snobs to show off those status symbols to other snobs and
> then display their prizes to other snobs.
What about people who adopt purebreds *from* shelters?
I'm rescuing this handsome fellow:
http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=11130804
who was left with the center after a breeder took ill and had to try
to place her cats in good homes. He's an F3 Bengal, so I couldn't
show him even if I wanted to. And the adoption center lady doesn't
even have his papers (though I'll admit I'm hoping she'll be able to
get them). (I'm heartened that the only health problem you could come
up with for them in your list was an eyelid condition. I'll be sure
to watch out for warning signs of that.) The adoption donation is a
little higher than the shelter moggie I'm simultaneously adopting to
keep him company, but it's going to help support other rescued cats
and dogs, and nowhere near what an equivalent animal might cost from a
breeder.
I'll admit to taking a certain amount of pride in his flashy
appearance, and I'll be happy to show him off to anyone who comes
over--not because he's "a purebred Bengal" but because he's such a
gorgeous creature. However the main reason I'm getting him is that I
just plain think Bengals are neat creatures. I wouldn't have a cat
with streamlined ears or a face that looks like it ran headlong into a
wall if *you* paid *me.* (Well, unless there were extenuating
circumstances like it being in serious need of a good home, and I had
space to offer and could afford the medical bills.)
Since there's no way I could seriously consider buying a Bengal at
breeder prices, I feel really lucky to be able to get him, and I'll be
loving both him and the moggie as members of my family, keeping me
company in my lonely apartment after my previous
rescued-from-the-street moggie died after five years, thank you very
much.
--
Chris Meadows aka | WWW: http://www.terrania.us | Somebody
Robotech_Master | ICQ: 5477383 AIM: RoboMastr | help, I'm
robotec...@gmail.com | Skype, LJ-Gizmo: Robotech_Master | trapped in
robo...@eyrie.org | Yahoo: robotech_master_2000 | a sig file!
cybercat
> In article <g50alo$mdl$1...@registered.motzarella.org>,
> "cybercat" <cyber...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Do your own fucking research.
>
> Well, aren't you little Miss Sunshine?
>
Asshole.
Janet Boss
Robotech_Master <robo...@eyrie.org> wrote:
>
> Since there's no way I could seriously consider buying a Bengal at
> breeder prices, I feel really lucky to be able to get him, and I'll be
> loving both him and the moggie as members of my family, keeping me
> company in my lonely apartment after my previous
> rescued-from-the-street moggie died after five years, thank you very
> much.
My cousin got a "second hand" Bengal and she's just a really cool cat.
I wish both your new additions the best of health and longevity!
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
cybercat
medication simply because it suits your pro-breeding agenda.
You see animals as objects with which you imagine you may elevate your
social status. You should not even bother to try, because everyone can *see*
what you are. Pathetic.
cybercat
the way you treat dogs, too.
cybercat
"Robotech_Master" <robo...@eyrie.org> wrote in message
news:slrng77ech....@terrania.homelinux.org...
> On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 12:52:59 -0500, CatNipped
> <CatN...@PossiblePlaces.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes! Why else get a cat that very probably will have severe health
>> problems, pay a fortune for it, and allow a healthy moggie to die
>> in a shelter rather than adopt it instead? Cat shows are just a
>> chance snobs to show off those status symbols to other snobs and
>> then display their prizes to other snobs.
>
> What about people who adopt purebreds *from* shelters?
>
> I'm rescuing this handsome fellow:
>
> http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=11130804
>
He's beautiful, and I'm glad you're giving him a home. They are really a
handful,
though, and there are plenty of people who are not sure they should ever
have
been bred for domestic pets. I'm sure you've done your research. There is
ample evidence of what can happen when you take on a Bengal, in the
google archives for this group.
Janet Boss
"cybercat" <cyber...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> They are really a
> handful,
> though, and there are plenty of people who are not sure they should ever
> have
> been bred for domestic pets. I'm sure you've done your research. There is
> ample evidence of what can happen when you take on a Bengal, in the
> google archives for this group.
On one hand, purebred cats are no different than mixed breed cats,
personality wise, but now all Bengals are difficult? Make up your mind!
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
CatNipped
news:slrng77ech....@terrania.homelinux.org...
> <CatN...@PossiblePlaces.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes! Why else get a cat that very probably will have severe health
>> problems, pay a fortune for it, and allow a healthy moggie to die
>> in a shelter rather than adopt it instead? Cat shows are just a
>> chance snobs to show off those status symbols to other snobs and
>> then display their prizes to other snobs.
>
> What about people who adopt purebreds *from* shelters?
Obviously, that's a different story altogether. Not only are you not
supporting breeders you are saving a cat from euthansia and helping reduce
the overpopulation of the shelter so they'll have room for another waif.
>
> I'm rescuing this handsome fellow:
>
> http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=11130804
Oh wow, he's gorgeous!
Bengals are a fairly "new" breed (they're not even listed yet on the "Cat
Fanciers Association's" web page) so they have the fewest list of genetic
defects (but give breeders time and that will change - SIGH) - and the one
it is prone to, entropion, is not usually life threatening:
Entropion is an inward rolling of the eyelid edges. It is an uncommon
problem in the cat, but when it does occur it usually affects the lower
eyelids.
Unlike the dog, inherited entropion of a young animal is uncommon in the
cat. Occasionally inherited entropion of the lower lid is present in
purebred cats that have short, round faces, such as the Persian and Burmese.
Entropion in the cat is more likely to develop later in life secondary to
other changes around the eye. One of the more common causes is spasm of the
eyelid that occurs from the pain associated with corneal ulceration. In
adults cats that acquire entropion, infections and inflammation with feline
herpesvirus have been incriminated as a precipitating causes of this
problem.
Secondary entropion may also occur when the eye itself moves backwards into
the orbit (enophthalmos), or when the eye becomes shrunken following a
severe injury or infection.
>
> who was left with the center after a breeder took ill and had to try
> to place her cats in good homes. He's an F3 Bengal, so I couldn't
> show him even if I wanted to. And the adoption center lady doesn't
> even have his papers (though I'll admit I'm hoping she'll be able to
> get them). (I'm heartened that the only health problem you could come
> up with for them in your list was an eyelid condition. I'll be sure
> to watch out for warning signs of that.) The adoption donation is a
> little higher than the shelter moggie I'm simultaneously adopting to
> keep him company, but it's going to help support other rescued cats
> and dogs, and nowhere near what an equivalent animal might cost from a
> breeder.
Always a good thing - bless you! There are so many breeders who routinely
euthanize kittens with "undesirable" characteristics. Breed rescues tries
to save kittens from that fate.
>
> I'll admit to taking a certain amount of pride in his flashy
> appearance, and I'll be happy to show him off to anyone who comes
> over--not because he's "a purebred Bengal" but because he's such a
> gorgeous creature. However the main reason I'm getting him is that I
> just plain think Bengals are neat creatures. I wouldn't have a cat
> with streamlined ears or a face that looks like it ran headlong into a
> wall if *you* paid *me.* (Well, unless there were extenuating
> circumstances like it being in serious need of a good home, and I had
> space to offer and could afford the medical bills.)
I'm glad you're getting a companion for him (just make sure they're
introduced slowly - Bengals tend to be "bullies").
Bengals are *really* feisty, very intelligent, and more than willing to get
into all kinds of trouble*. Many, many Bengals are turned in to shelters
because of behavior problems (add that to the fact that, while they like to
interact with people, they're not a "lap cat" and that can be hard to
tolerate for a "casual" cat owner). They need lots of attention and lots
and lots of exercise. You also have to make sure your home is "bengal
proofed" - they've been known to learn how to open doors, cabinets,
refrigerators, and other seemingly "cat proofed" places - they turn lights
off and on, turn water taps on (they love water - they've been known to join
their owners in the shower), and a myriad of other mischevious behaviors.
* Caveat... cats' personalities are formed by many factors, including their
genetic heritage, their socialisation and living conditions when growing up,
and good old random individuality! As a result there is always much more
variation between individual cats than there is commonality within a given
breed.
>
> Since there's no way I could seriously consider buying a Bengal at
> breeder prices, I feel really lucky to be able to get him, and I'll be
> loving both him and the moggie as members of my family, keeping me
> company in my lonely apartment after my previous
> rescued-from-the-street moggie died after five years, thank you very
> much.
Good luck to all of you! Please keep us posted on your adventures with your
new family! ;>
Hugs,
CatNipped
CatNipped
> In article <6dhqh0F...@mid.individual.net>,
> "CatNipped" <CatN...@PossiblePlaces.com> wrote:
>
>> very
>> progbably contributing to that shelter population with his breeding
>> practices - all breeders do which is one of the reasons millions of
>> healthy
>> cats are put to death every year in the US alone.
>
> Really? Shelters are full of responsibly bred dogs and cats? Your
> "data" seems non-existent. That's AR for ya. So sorry that it's alive
> and thriving on ignorance.
Creative snipping always gets you the text you need in order to respond in
your own defense, doesn't it? Well, go ahead - why don't you just type
something and make believe I said it, it's obvious truth and logic are
concepts you're not familiar with, sweetie!
>
> To the OP - you need some closer mentors for advice. Public forums are
> likely to bring some pretty harsh criticism.
Especially public forums dedicated to the health and welfare of cats - my,
my, imagine that!
> I have no way of knowing
> how responsible a breeder you are. I support responsible breeding of
> cats and dogs, and shun irresponsible breeding.
Of course you do, what a surprise! I was wondering what that stench was I
was smelling - darling, you need to go take a bath in some common sense and
compassion, you reek of self-righteousness, irresponsibility, selfishness
and plain old bullshit (now see there, you've gone and reduced me to foul
language - that's it, I'm done).
> I am confused by those
> who actually support the irresponsible by not going after the real
> problems, but bitch about purebred breeding instead.
And there really is no need to bitch about breeding painful and probably
fatal diseases, structural deformities, defects, and neurotic tendencies in
the animals we love, is there? It's all good as long as snobs like you can
show off your pretty (to others, grotesque to me) possessions. After all,
they're just animals without souls, without feelings, without worth other
than what we pay for them, right?
Janet Boss
"CatNipped" <CatN...@PossiblePlaces.com> wrote:
> It's all good as long as snobs like you can
> show off your pretty (to others, grotesque to me) possessions. After all,
> they're just animals without souls, without feelings, without worth other
> than what we pay for them, right?
All of my animals are beautiful. From free to not free. How horrid of
you to decide that a carefully chosen animal is grotesque.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
Shelly
news:g50dra$std$1...@registered.motzarella.org:
> You're so full of shit. Your allergies "cannot be controlled" with
mere hecatombs to our alien overlords. An aluminum toque repells
> medication simply because it suits your pro-breeding agenda.
>
> You see animals as objects with which you imagine you may elevate
conjugate dessert plate pieces of eight. An apparatus for your
> your social status. You should not even bother to try, because
resistance is futile. But hey nonny nonny I see that you see that
> everyone can *see* what you are. Pathetic.
I am. It's true and that's not a lie.
IFYPFY. HTH BBQ and God bless!
--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
cybercat
The point is, so many are dying and suffering for want of a good home.
Anyone who advocates creating *more* is seriously wrongheaded and just a
rotten piece of shit who is numb to the suffering of these creatures.
Pardon my scientific terminology.
Janet Boss
"cybercat" <cyber...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Pardon my scientific terminology.
and AR agenda. No - I won't.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
CatNipped
A caricature of what was once the perfect predator, but now sports a
smushed-in face that causes disgusting discharge to form in the eyes and
causes infections and breathing difficulties, has a deformed skeleton and
musculature, is disease-ridden in body and mind, is indeed grotesque - as in
the grotesquely warped, ethically lacking, money grubbing excuse for a human
being that deliberately caused those deformities for the sake of the
almighty dollar. Again, cats started out perfect, it's only the hubris of
people like you who think they can improve on nature and God's creation.
Go ahead, keep snipping to make your point, tell yourself you are a human
being and not pond scum... whatever lets you sleep at night and look at
yourself in the mirror in the morning, darlin'!
Matthew
CatNipped
> In article <g50gcm$use$1...@registered.motzarella.org>,
> "cybercat" <cyber...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Pardon my scientific terminology.
>
> and AR agenda. No - I won't.
Of course not when your own agenda entails the suffering of animals for the
sake of your pocketbook! I never for a minute thought you would. It's
interesting, in a gross sort of way, what crawls out from under rocks these
days. If you don't have the ethical or moral standards of a hyena,
sweetums, you could at least keep your mouth shut and pretend you do! Now
do I have to start treating you like the puppy who pooped on the floor in
front of company (people are starting to turn their noses up at the stench)?
Are you that stupid that you would come into *this* particular forum with
your breeder "agenda"? Tsk, tsk. The depths that some so-called humans can
plumb never ceases to amaze me. Unfortunately, the stupidity of some has
become all too predictable. How sad.
Robotech_Master
<CatN...@PossiblePlaces.com> wrote:
> They need lots of attention and lots and lots of exercise.
I look at this as a bonus. Getting a harness and lead and walking my
cat will be a good way to force *me* to get sufficient exercise
myself. :) And I'll be giving him lots of attention every moment I'm
at home. (This is also in part why I'm adopting a friendly, sociable
moggie along with him, to be around when I can't be--though the larger
part being that she's such a sweetie I can't leave her alone. I may
go down to the vet clinic where I'm adopting her after work today just
to spend a little time with her, even though it'll be Friday before my
apartment is ready to welcome her in.)
And I'm really looking forward to his feistiness. (Though the shelter
operator assures me that he's a really sweet-natured and friendly
beast.) It'll be fun having a cat who will interact with me rather
than just "tolerate" me.
CatNipped
> On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 14:22:19 -0500, CatNipped
> <CatN...@PossiblePlaces.com> wrote:
>
>> They need lots of attention and lots and lots of exercise.
>
> I look at this as a bonus. Getting a harness and lead and walking my
> cat will be a good way to force *me* to get sufficient exercise
> myself. :)
Good idea! It's said that Bengals are more "dog-like" than most cats. I'm
sure he'll benefit from the variety of sights, sounds, and smells that
walking will provide him, just like dogs do. Even though he may get enough
exercise at home, he'll still appreciate the mental stimulation walking will
provide.
> And I'll be giving him lots of attention every moment I'm
> at home. (This is also in part why I'm adopting a friendly, sociable
> moggie along with him, to be around when I can't be--though the larger
> part being that she's such a sweetie I can't leave her alone. I may
> go down to the vet clinic where I'm adopting her after work today just
> to spend a little time with her, even though it'll be Friday before my
> apartment is ready to welcome her in.)
>
> And I'm really looking forward to his feistiness. (Though the shelter
> operator assures me that he's a really sweet-natured and friendly
> beast.) It'll be fun having a cat who will interact with me rather
> than just "tolerate" me.
Again, good luck with your new family. And, oh, by the way, PLEASE POST
LOTS OF PICTURES!!!! ;>
Hugs,
CatNipped
Janet Boss
"CatNipped" <CatN...@PossiblePlaces.com> wrote:
>
> Of course not when your own agenda entails the suffering of animals for the
> sake of your pocketbook!
Exactly how do you think I'm enhancing my pocketbook or adding the the
suffering of animals. That's pure AR crap.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
Janet Boss
Robotech_Master <robo...@eyrie.org> wrote:
> It'll be fun having a cat who will interact with me rather
> than just "tolerate" me.
I've always had very interactive cats. I've always figured that maybe
they follow what the dogs do! They both sound lovely. I hope they
enjoy each others' company.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
CatNipped
> In article <6di03mF...@mid.individual.net>,
> "CatNipped" <CatN...@PossiblePlaces.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Of course not when your own agenda entails the suffering of animals for
>> the
>> sake of your pocketbook!
>
> Exactly how do you think I'm enhancing my pocketbook or adding the the
> suffering of animals. That's pure AR crap.
Nobody takes up the flag of breeder and runs with it like you've done here
unless they are or were a breeder themselves. If you're not or have never
been a breeder nor have ever purchased a pure-bred cat (thus financing their
depravity), but you are *still* defending their lack of humanity and
compassion, then you are far, far more stupid than even I had estimated.
Poor dear, for your own sake, take my advice and quit showing off your
ignorance - it doesn't become you, darlin'!
cybercat
"CatNipped" <CatN...@PossiblePlaces.com> wrote in message
news:6di189F...@mid.individual.net...
I love the designation "you AR people," don't you? Like there's something
ridiculous and sneerworthy about treating animals like feeling creatures and
not possessions to wear on your arm like a rolex.
I've said all I want to say to this stupid bitch. Life is too short to spend
too much time on idiots.
cybercat
> On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 14:22:19 -0500, CatNipped
> <CatN...@PossiblePlaces.com> wrote:
>
>> They need lots of attention and lots and lots of exercise.
>
> I look at this as a bonus. Getting a harness and lead and walking my
> cat will be a good way to force *me* to get sufficient exercise
> myself. :) And I'll be giving him lots of attention every moment I'm
> at home. (This is also in part why I'm adopting a friendly, sociable
> moggie along with him, to be around when I can't be--though the larger
> part being that she's such a sweetie I can't leave her alone. I may
> go down to the vet clinic where I'm adopting her after work today just
> to spend a little time with her, even though it'll be Friday before my
> apartment is ready to welcome her in.)
>
> And I'm really looking forward to his feistiness. (Though the shelter
> operator assures me that he's a really sweet-natured and friendly
> beast.) It'll be fun having a cat who will interact with me rather
> than just "tolerate" me.
>
put up a photo page, please post the links.
cybercat
"Matthew" <iamacat...@proudtoserve.com> wrote in message
news:4873c8ce$0$5939$9a6e...@unlimited.newshosting.com...
Well, you must admit, there is a therapeutic value in taking potshots at
obvious idiots. It beat the hell out of taking things out on the ones we
love, right?
ReMIND you of anyone, as Craig Ferguson says ... MU hahaha!
CatNipped
news:g50j7p$jik$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
Yeah, really!
>
> I've said all I want to say to this stupid bitch. Life is too short to
> spend too much time on idiots.
Hmm, just did a quick google on this one. For a troll, she certainly does
leave herself wide open, doesn't she? Man, she's not going to last long in
this group, will she?!! If she has even a lick of common sense she'll start
running for the hills before the big guns arrive (not that you aren't a big
gun my friend ;>)!
Hugs,
CatNipped
Janet Boss
"CatNipped" <CatN...@PossiblePlaces.com> wrote:
>
> Nobody takes up the flag of breeder and runs with it like you've done here
> unless they are or were a breeder themselves. If you're not or have never
> been a breeder nor have ever purchased a pure-bred cat (thus financing their
> depravity), but you are *still* defending their lack of humanity and
> compassion, then you are far, far more stupid than even I had estimated.
> Poor dear, for your own sake, take my advice and quit showing off your
> ignorance - it doesn't become you, darlin'!
I'm definitely not your darlin', nor am I stupid. I think for myself
rather than follow hysterical AR agendas. I have never been a breeder,
nor will be and never have owned or purchased a purebred cat. My cats
have come from: offspring of a stray taken in by neighbor, stray,
offspring of a stray taken in by vet's office, and [older] shelter
kitten. No ignorance. I like little things like facts.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
CatNipped
> In article <6di189F...@mid.individual.net>,
> "CatNipped" <CatN...@PossiblePlaces.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Nobody takes up the flag of breeder and runs with it like you've done
>> here
>> unless they are or were a breeder themselves. If you're not or have
>> never
>> been a breeder nor have ever purchased a pure-bred cat (thus financing
>> their
>> depravity), but you are *still* defending their lack of humanity and
>> compassion, then you are far, far more stupid than even I had estimated.
>> Poor dear, for your own sake, take my advice and quit showing off your
>> ignorance - it doesn't become you, darlin'!
>
>
> I'm definitely not your darlin', nor am I stupid. I think for myself
Yes, sweetie, we've seen evidence of that here. That's not working so well
for you, is it, honey?
> rather than follow hysterical AR agendas. I have never been a breeder,
> nor will be and never have owned or purchased a purebred cat. My cats
Oh my, methinks she protests too much. Tell me then, sugar, what stake do
you have in so frenetically defending the scum of the earth? Are you just a
masochist? If you're trying to troll the group I have to say darlin',
you're not doing too well with that.
> have come from: offspring of a stray taken in by neighbor, stray,
> offspring of a stray taken in by vet's office, and [older] shelter
> kitten. No ignorance. I like little things like facts.
Facts like you keep snipping here, sweetie? Yes, we can see that for
ourselves! Didn't your mama ever teach you that actions speak louder than
words? Poor baby!
Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
lyin animal murderin punk thug coward active accute
chronic life long incurable malignant maliciHOWES
mental case and BACKYARD PUPPY MILLER and
professional dog training FRAUD an SCAM ARTIST,
"diddy" <none> wrote in message
news:Xns9AD59B797A8...@216.196.97.142...
> "cybercat" <cyber...@yahoo.com> spoke these words of
> wisdom in news:g50e54$tae$1...@registered.motzarella.org:
>
>> > It is my understanding that there are a few folks who
>> > have problems with the way you treat dogs, too.
janet is a lyin animal murderin life-long incurable MENTAL CASE.
> Crackpots..but not sensible people.
Of curse. Crackpots who DON'T HURT INTIMIDATE
an MURDER innocent defenseless dumb critters an LIE
abHOWET IT <{}: ~ ( >
> But then, I figure you are a troll, or you wouldn't be trolling a dog
> group.
UNLESS he wanted to IDENTIFY EXXXPOSE an DISCREDIT
janet as the pathetic miserable stinkin rotten lyin animal murderin
punk thug coward mental case that she IS, just like HOWE I'm
fixin to do to diddler RIGHT NHOWE <{}: ~ ) >
> cross posts snipped.
The animal lovers here delete text and snip crossposts
to AVOID EMBARRASSMENT <{}: ~ ( >
Here's a bit of diddler's POSTED CASE HISTORY:
DIDDY ON CATS (shoot, don't trap)
From: diddy (di...@nospam.diddy.net)
Subject: Re: Fur Auction Ohio State Trappers Association
Xenia Ohio Feb 15 2002
Date: 2002-02-16 12:06:21 PST
If I can get him away from the Olympics, I'll have him
answer that. He doesn't know how to change the identity
on the computer, so if "I" answer this post... it's really
Jeff. And no.... we went to watch. He sold nothing. btw..
are these "CATS" feral domestic cats? (sorry not familiar
with Oklahoma) (I just shoot the DSH cats.
Jeff caught a couple cats last summer while nuisance
trapping an orchard, but it wasn't intentional)
--
diddy
-------------------
From: diddy (di...@nospam.diddy.net)
Subject: Re: What would you do in this situation?
Date: 2002-05-31 14:49:22 PST
Actually, I borrowed the vets office kitten once for a
couple days for school education on pet care and safe
handling as well as responsible pet ownership.
I kept the kitten over night in a crate within a crate
and yet my dog (yes, Angelic Danny, as well as Taya
and Toby tore that kittne to threads from between the
crate bars. (apparently he stuck his paws through the
crate to bat at the dogs. I was out doing yard work
and rushed in to find the little kittens pieces and
parts being torn through by ALL the dogs.
I called my girl friend to come get my dogs. I screamed
displeasure, and stalked out with the kitten. Danny, et
al spent 3 days in a kennel until I finally felt like I
could interact with them without doing bodily harm. All
three dogs were never touched, but knew they had done
something so unspeakable that I wouldn't associate with
them and they got banished.
To this day, Taya (mom and Dad's dog) and Danny will
not look at a cat. When confronted with one, Danny wees
himself and cowers hiding behind me for help.
I'm not saying this would work this way with all dogs,
But mom and dad now have a house cat, and she has
never been harmed by any of the dogs. Danny is there
all the time, unsupervised, and has no interest in harming
the cat.
--------------------------------
WHEN YOU CAN'T FIND ANY CATS TO SHOOT,
SHOOT HUNGRY DOGS INSTEAD FOR GETTING
IN THE GARBAGE:
From: diddy (di...@diddy.net)
Subject: Re: Dog Shot, Neighbor Charged, Anchorage AK
Date: 2002-11-08 07:00:27 PST
I guess if I felt Danny was threatened, it's the way I would react.
There would be none left standing to deal with the threat just in
case.
If someone hurt him, I would not let borders or
continents stop me from pursuing justice.
Then again, I always feed Danny INSIDE. If someone is
feeding his dog outside, his own dog might not mean THAT
much to him.
If he was feeding his dog outside though, many dogs are food
aggressive, and that could most certainly spark a dog aggression
thing. (and if the dog was penned quietly outside, what was it
doing in his yard?)
I shot a neighbors dog one night for chasing my horses and
called him to help me find it. I would do the same for threatening
my dog.
My husband shot a dog that had been tearing up trash up and
down our road for years making an unbelievable mess. When
we finally killed the culprit, the whole road cheered. Animal
control had never been able in years to catch this critter. (we
think it was feral it was certainly unkempt enough to have
been....and it had been shot at by MANY of the neighbors,
but it never frightened it off enough to keep it from NOT
tearing up the road the next trash day)
---------------------------------
OR you could just BLUDGEON a innocent defenseless kitty kat:
From: diddy (di...@nospam.diddy.net)
Subject: Re: cats : Crating/Caging: What constitutes abuse?
Date: 2002-08-23 09:18:08 PST
Lyn wrote:
> > You know I'm a cat abuser because I let my cat out.
> > Alison
> Well, it totally depends upon where you live, as to whether
> or not doing so is in the best interest of your animal.
> Abuser isn't a term I would use, and I am a "cat group"
> regular.
Here it would be abuse. If you like your cat you keep it
home. I run a state authorized and monitored nuisance
animal trapline.
This morning there was a cat in a snare. Ordinarily,
an animal caught in a snare can be released unharmed.
One of the animals I am targeting is coyotes (and the
complaint was that coyotes were killing area cats)
Duh.. If your cats are becoming lunch for wild animals,
to me .. It makes sense to keep your cats in where they
can't become lunch.. whatever.
Regarding this cat in the snare. It went nuts. It leaped,
and tangled itself, and most certainly strangulated it's
intestines. It had the snare pulled tight down to the
diameter of a dime (just large enough to encircle the
spine) around the waist area.
This cats snarled, and attacked. Trying to extricate this cat
was exceedingly difficult, not to mention dangerous. Because
I feared damage to the intestines and death of the gut, I
imagined this cat was not likely to survive.
It would have been much simpler to dispatch the unfortunate
cat and take out the dead body. Instead, this cat wore a
collar. it deserved a chance, and the owner deserved closure.
(no id on the collar) .
It escaped, just as I released it and it couldn't be taken to
the vet for examination. I will probably never know if this
particular cat survives the experience or not.
People in the area were aware that trapping was being done and
apparently still let their cats run free, b oth endangered by
the traps and by the coyotes being targeted that are causing a
problem with their cat population.
Had that cat not been wearing a collar, I would not have tried
to release this hostile cat. Releasing it may not have been a
kindness, but then... cats weren't supposed to be attracted to
this type of trap, in this position, and then they weren't
supposed to go ape, to get themselves in this situation.
If you like your pet, you keep them home.
-------------------
diddy (di...@nospam.diddy.net)
Subject: Oh My God
Two nights ago, Reka started acting frantic about 11pm.
I let her out. It's coyote breeding season, and she is fascinated
by them. I assumed she wanted to go out and listen to them
howling. I brought her in, and she spent the night franticly and
desperately demanding to go out.
After about 4am, I finally put her in the barn, locked
securely in a horse stall for the night.
She came in by morning, and had a normal active, playful
day. Last night, at 11pm, She franticly DEMANDED to go
out. I let her out, and brought her in. At midnight, she
DEMANDED to be let out. I let her out, but I went out
to the barn and got a crate, and decided she could
spend the rest of the night in the crate. We were NOT
going to do a repeat of the previous night AGAIN.
At 3am, she whined so loudly, I then decided not to
allow her to set a precedence of this type of behavior.
So I took her crate out to the heated gun shop and
decided to let her act out her bad behavior in peace,
and send a message that her obnoxious behavior
was not going to be tolerated.
This morning at 6am, I went out, and she had vomited
(normal looking dog food) and defecated in her crate
(not normal for Reka, but then, She normally didn't
sleep in a crate, NEVER gets corrected (she never does
anything to GET corrected for) and was probably nerves
from the outside experience, plus reprimand and solitary
confinement.)
I let her in the house while I cleaned the cage. Hoping
I had made my point. She acted healthy and normal, and
playful and chipper. But then I noticed a spot of blood on
the bathroom linoleum and in the bathtub. I was the last to
take a bath, so I knew REKA was the last in the tub.
That blood didnt come from me, so it HAD to come from
Reka. Thinking about her nearing the end of her heat cycle,
I still didnt think a lot about it. I thought her obnoxious
behavior the past couple nights WAS her heat cycle..
and corresponding coyote breeding season.
Then while feeding her breakfast, I saw the whole story.
She had blood (fresh) streaming from her RECTUM. UhOh.
I had her at the vets office this morning before he
opened. He just said her intestines were all bunched
up with huge air pockets.
Was there any chance that she ate strings of carpets? I
said, last Thursday we took a plastic tarp out of the yard
that we had over the grill to protect it from the weather
because she was chewing it. That would explain
EVERYTHING.
The strings are binding and bunching up her intestines,
cutting her internally and tying her intestines in knots as
it works its way through.
Reka is in a very critical situation. She is going to
require extensive and expensive surgery that I cant
afford. I will manage.
Even with the surgery, her condition will be critical
for awhile. Scary thoughts. I would never have
treated her the way I did last night, if I had even a
clue that she was sick. I feel so badly.
--
diddy
-----------------------
> "diddy" <none> wrote in message
> news:Xns9A556604A16...@216.196.97.142...
>> "Peter" <grendlemons...@hotmail.com> spoke these words
>> of wisdom in news:FbMIj.1026$NU2...@news01.roc.ny:
>>> My Great Dane Gretchen had her pups on 3/21,
>>> exactly 63 days after conception.
>> I have no problems with BYB
Of curse not~! diddler *(amongst others here, [robin nuttal,
diane schoenberg, lying frosty dahl, handsome gentleman
jack morrison]) IS a BYB who BREEDS AGGRESSIVE
and HYPERACTIVE dogs for EXXXPERT dog handlers ONLY.
Here's diddler BUYIN a BREEDIN BITCH and signing a
BREED LEASE AGREEMENT and THEN FORGETTIN she had
a OBLIGATION to BREED a GENETICALLY DEFECTIVE dog...
so she kept a puppy (Danny) and when he became too difficult to
handle, had IT surgically sexually mutilated after collecting and
freezing semen for future BREEDING of her GENETICALLY
DEFECTIVE "stud dog":
"I argued that she was not temperamentally sound.
Danny was an offspring of tthat litter.
Danny has three crosses in his pedigree to this same fruity
dog. Danny passes it on. I had to work with every one of
those puppies in their homes. Every one of them spent a month
or more in my house at a year old doing rehab , before I spent
a week or more in their owners houses teaching them how to train
and work with their pups.
A litter that requires this DOES have temperament issues.
At the same time, each of these families has their name
on a list, should I ever breed Danny again (He has semen
on store)"
From: diddy <di...@nofair.spamming.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:07:51 -0500
Subject: Re: "Timmie's in the well!!"
BethF wrote:
> "diddy" <di...@nofair.spamming.com> wrote in message
> news:3E244F7F...@nofair.spamming.com...
> > BethF wrote:
> > > "Shelly" <s...@pacifier.com> wrote in message
> > > news:v2807sh...@corp.supernews.com...
> > > > Since Bodhi has arrived, Coda has earned himself a new
> > > > nickname: "Fun Police".
> > > > (Regardless if it's something he would've done as a puppy or not!)
> > > LOL! Isn't that funny - kind of the opposite of Kavik.
> > Danny is a fun police also!! Miss Reka and Mr beeeeegs frustratingly
> > just ignore him. (Danny never did those things in his youth, however,
> > as he was a very serious puppy, hence, I thought he had a potential
> > temperament problem and didn't sell him)
> Temperment problems? Isn't that funny. Danny. Temperment
> problems. Its a damn good thing you didn't sell him though.
Dannys mother had temperament problems.. and I had leased her to
breed (she was a top producing kennel dog), when brought into a home
condition, she had no resiliency. She was finished as a puppy in just 5
shows, and then never left the kennel again except to whelp puppies.
I very much admired her structure/pedigree/bloodlines/health
testing/"get and their performance records"
She had just had a litter and had to be bottle raised because she had no
milk. The breeder lamented that she thought she would probably not
ever be bred again because of the milk problem. I took her home on
vacation. however i signed legal lease papers with a breeding
clause.
I never intended to breed her. I thought the papers i was
signing was to prevent me from breeding her.
After keeping her for two years, the breeder told me it was time to
breed her and return half the litter that I owed during her "lease"
I told her I did NOT want to breed her, and her phobia about leaving
fences, fear of noises, etc was not something i wanted to have in a
dog.
She said i "OWED" her a 1/2 litter of puppies per contract. i long ago
threw out my contract, and she sent me a copy of hers. Sure enough, I
HAD to breed her. I argued that she was not temperamentally sound.
She was a ditz, and trying to work with her only to find her so
institutionalized that when she dissappeared, she was ALWAYS
standing at the gate shivering wanting to get INTO the safety of
the fenced yard.
(running away was not an issue with her.. she couldn't stand being
in a decision making situation,, and couldn't stand being outside a
fence... hardly the kind of dog that fits my lifestyle)
I did the obligatory breeding, and never dealt with that breeder again.
Danny was an offspring of tthat litter. I was worried looking for
instability. Her offspring from other litters had a history of being
darlings, but with the neurotic behavior she had) Danny would never
play. He would sit analyzing anything the other puppies did, and if
they screamed, he would never do what they did again. He wouldn't
play... He just watched, deciding what was ok.. and what wasn't.
He figured if a puppy screamed while they were roughhousing, all
roughhousing was bad. He'd be in the middle of the pack trying to
break them up (fun police).. he took this to extreme in every facet
of his life, and I feared he was going to be like his mom, and
eventually aftraid to leave the fence.
The home I had picked for him had two little boys, and I was afraid
they would intimidate him (in spite of them being great and gentle
little boys, into being a fear biter if forced beyond the bounds of what
he thought he was appropriate.) So i kept Danny and gave this family
glowing refeerrals to another family.
They watched Danny grow up, and his accomplishments, and felt
that I kept "Their" dog out of selfish reasons. They knew he was
a "star" and just kept him from them *sigh*
Danny was the easiest yet hardest dog i ever had to train in my life.
He was bright, tried never to make any mistakes, you only showed him
something once, he took learning so seriously that he would practice.
Yet if he failed or misunderstood, he crashed. He'd be afraid to try it
again, or assume the whole exercise was wrong, and he was to never
do that exercise again. If he feared he was going to make a mistake,
he stood there like a statue with his eyes closed and just shook.
He has been since VERY young, a perfectionist. He's still a
perfectionist. Yes, I considered this a temperament fault when
carried to this extreme. He worries about perfection even now,
until he gets ulcers :)
He did not belong in the home that was supposed to be his. That home
lost their dog they got instead, because the kids let the gate open,
and the dog ran out and got killed in traffic. I'm glad he stayed.
His puppies also have that sensitivity and perfectionist streak. In
the right hands, it's a gift. In the wrong hands, it's a disaster. Is it
a temperament problem? yes and no..
it's not a temperament just any family usa should have and could
deal with. so in essence, it's a temperament problem. To me, and
those homes who got his puppies, and then had me do in home
visits to teach them how to handle it have found it a special gift.
He's definitely a dog that is not for everyone.
His great great grandfather was also known more for his intelligence
than his championship, He won a National Specialty, and yet he was
bred twice, and his puppies had the same wierdness and intelligence.
MOST people couldn't handle them, and he got neutered. Never-
the-less, Danny has three crosses in his pedigree to this same fruity
dog. I think he got it honestly.
On the same note, Danny passes it on. I had to work with every one of
those puppies in their homes. Every one of them spent a month or more
in my house at a year old doing rehab , before I spent a week or more
in their owners houses teaching them how to train and work with their
pups.
A litter that requires this DOES have temperament issues. At the same
time, each of these families has their name on a list, should I ever
breed Danny again (He has semen on store) I sold every pup on a
spay/neuter contract (this was before limited registration)
One violated that contract and bred their dog anyway. He's a champion
and as the only pup from Danny that was ever bred, many people bred
to him. Those puppies did NOT have the support my Danny puppies had,
and there were a bunch of disturbed and temperament problems in those
litters. I've been rescueing Elkhounds trying to clean up the mess
since.
You could never guess by looking at Danny that there was a
temperament problem. It was trained out when he was very
young. It's non-existant.. but it's there in his genes.. in that
can in storage.
It's the reason I never bred him again. Although I would "like to"
someday. If I could find the right bitch, and knew that she would
have only "ONE" puppy.. for "me".
I had discovered that that very temperament weakness was his strength
that made him very special. Because it takes special handling to turn
it from detriment to gift.. I _do_ consider it a "problem".
---------------------------------
And then you WONder...
An then you don't <{}: ~ ( >
BWEEEAAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
CatNipped
Day-um! Seems she slipped away back into RPDB to whine to her widdle fwends
that we wus bein' all mean to her! Just when I was getting into the mood to
play, too! ;>
Hugs,
CatNipped
Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
lyin animal murderin punk thug coward active accute
chronic life long incurable malignant maliciHOWES
mental case and BACKYARD PUPPY MILLER and
professional dog training FRAUD an SCAM ARTIST,
"diddy" <none> wrote in message
news:Xns9AD59E5AA14...@216.196.97.142...
> Janet Boss <ja...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> spoke these words of wisdom
> in news:janet-41FAB7....@news.individual.net:
>
>> In article <Xns9AD59B797A8...@216.196.97.142>, diddy <none>
>> wrote:
>
>>> Crackpots..but not sensible people.But then, I figure you are a troll,
>>> or you wouldn't be trolling a dog group.
>>
>> Yes, she didn't like my opinion on someone breeding purebred cats,
>> so she's decided to crosspost all of her responses to me now. Sorry -
>> I shouldn't go to the whacko cat group. I just hated the AR crap they
>> were all spewing at the OP.
>>
> AR people are such whackos. And they refuse to acknowlege that
> there are a hell of a lot of GOOD breeders out there taking great
> pains to eliminate the genetic crap, and not over populate.
Yeah. We just seen a EXXXAMPLE of diddler's EXXXPERTEASE
as a ETHICKAL BREEDER of BACKYARD PUPPY MILL PUPS..
> Speaking of which, I just sent in Tuck's Cardiac OFA and his
> CERF to be registered for his breeder. Bad breeders won't spend
> $130 each for OFA hips + $15 to enter it in the database. $30
> for OFA Cardiac + $15 to enter it in the database $130 for OFA
> thyroid + $15 to enter it in the database $30 for OFA Patellas +
> $15 to enter it in the database, $75 for OFA Elbows + $15 to
> enter it in the database $200 for OFA kidneys + $15 to enter it
> in the database and $32 for CERF testing, + $12 to enter it in the
> database
Perhaps "BAD BREEDERS" won't do that on accHOWENTA
if they AIN'T GOT those "GENETIC DEFECTS" in their lines
there AIN'T NO NEED to "CERTIFY" that you AIN'T BREEDIN
SICK DOGS, eh, diddler??
> It adds up. These were all tests requested of me by the breeder
> as progeny follow up to insure she's breeding healthy dogs and
> catches any mistakes, so it can be eliminated from the gene pool.
That so?
> You don't see any randomly bred animal having any effort at
> all to eliminate genetic defects, nor having progeny tracking.
> AR people and anti-purebred people are ignoring what the
> good breeders are doing, and through ignorance, lumping all
> breeders into the same group.
Oh? Oh, you mean JUST LIKE HOWE you just done
with the "RANDOM" backyard breeders, diddler?
> I'd like to know why they think backyard breeders who let
> their animals select their own mates with no accountability
> nor responsibility, and no contracts to return any unwanted
> offspring to the breeder are such hot stuff.
And I'd like to know where diddler got the idiotic idea that
so called backyard breeders allHOWE "random breeding"
and let their critters "select their own mates" and have no
"return contracts" or GUARANTEES?
> The answer is, they are ignorant a GOOD breeder is putting
> NOTHING into the shelters, and breeding animals that have
> a lifetime of healthy animals.
That's just NOT TRUE, diddler, and those "health checks" are a SCAM.
>> Hip Dysplasia
Dysplasia is a VITAMIN C deficiency, like SCURVEY:
Dr. Wendell Belfield has PROVEN that hip dysplasia AIN'T
a GENETIC DEFECT, it's simply a lack of absorbable vitamin
C in the DIET, therefore it's EZily PREVENTABLE.
He's BRED hip dysplastic sire and dam, fed the mom an
apupriate diet, raised the pups with apupriate nutrition and
found NO hip dysplasia.
>> * OFA evaluation
The OFA IGNORES the EVIDENCE as it would PUT THEM
HOWETA BUSINESS. The SCAM is puportrated by the AVMA
on accHOWENTA they PROFIT from DOIN SURGERY on
dysplastic dogs and "GENETIC TESTING" pryor to breeding.
The claims of the "GENETICISTS" have been soundly DISPROVEN
yet they CONtinue to GET PAID RESEARCH GRANTS funded by
UNCLE SAM to PROVE what DON'T EXXXIST <{}: ~ ( >
Here's the RESEARCH from Dr. Belfield:
http://www.belfield.com/article5.html
Here's more info on vitamin C:
http://workingdogs.com/doc0039.htm
Hip Dysplasia - A Vitamin C Deficiency
Canine Hip Dysplasia (CHD), a crippling disease of the
coxofemoral joint (hip), was first observed and reported
in 1945 by the late Dr.Gary Schnelle. Dr. Schnelle was
the staff radiologist at Angels Memorial Hospital at
Boston, Massachusetts and reported his observations in
The North American Veterinarian Journal and termed the
condition "Congenital Coxofemoral Subluxation".
Though "congenital", by definition, means "existing at
birth but not hereditary", Schnelle theorized the cause
to be a recessive gene.
Today, this condition is associated with the large breeds
of canines, however Schnelle's initial observations were
in the smaller breeds i.e., cocker spaniels, terriers, etc..
During the 1960's, Dr. Wayne Riser, a veterinary pathologist,
collaborated with a geneticist and postulated the concept that
CHD was "polygenetic with environmental overtones" and during
this time frame, the term "Canine Hip Dysplasia" was born.
There has been a string of professionals who have perpetuated
the heredity theory even until the present. We have been
encouraged to breed selectively, alter, and in some cases,
euthanize the afflicted canines.
This is what the veterinary experts have been insisting
the dog breeders and fanciers do to prevent CHD for the
past fifty-two years. Is it possible we have been on the
wrong track for more than a half century?
One authority, of a veterinary teaching institution in
a personal correspondence to the author, admitted the
"experts" have failed to solve the CHD problem.
In 1976, The author published his observations:
("Chronic Subclinical Scurvy and Canine Hip Dysplasia")
in his small animal practice through the administration
of vitamin C to prevent CHD. Whether this concept has
been accepted or not it has sparked controversy, and has
some veterinarians reassessing the archaic heredity theory.
There are two unanswered relevant questions the "experts"
have failed to answer to prove the heredity theory.
1. What is the action of the gene/genes, how do they
create the disease?
2. How does the veterinary practitioner differentiate
between a hip subluxation due to trauma (injury) from
true CHD?
Since the mid 1970's, the author has been successful in
preventing CHD through the administration of nutritional
supplements to the pregnant female and within hours of
birth to the newborn.
As earlier presented, the first canines observed with CHD
were the smaller breeds; yet today the larger canines are
most affected. The reason for this phenomenon is that the
present day dog food is considerably more nutritious than
that being fed in the 1940's, i.e., more attention is now
being given to nutritional requirements.
The requirements that have been established over the past
four decades have eliminated the CHD problem in the smaller
breeds but these requirements are not adequate for the large
and giant breeds.
One cannot expect the nutritional requirements for a
Chihuahua be the same for that of a Great Dane.
When these large and giant breeds of canines are
adequately subsidized through nutritional supplementation,
the condition is prevented.
CHD must be more specifically defined. At the present,
any abnormality in the coxofemoral joint is considered
hip dysplasia.
The first photograph shows a dog who was diagnosed with
unilateral dysplasia. No consideration was given to the
history of this patient.
The fact of the matter is, this subluxation was due to a
falling bail of hay impacting the right pelvic region.
Bitches often sit on their new born causing subluxations
which are not manifested for some weeks later when the
pups begin to walk.
For this reason the author, in his practice, does not
diagnose or recognize "unilateral" hip dysplasia.
The second photograph is without a doubt CHD. Both hips are
subluxated with accompanying osteoarthritis. The problem of
CHD is directly associated with collagen synthesis. Inadequate
collagen synthesis will adversely affect osteogenesis (development
and formation of bone), chondrogenesis (development and formation
of cartilage), and myogenesis (develop and formation of muscle).
These three physiological processes are dependent on good
collagen synthesis which is dependent on good nutrition.
Research biochemists, during the 90's, have established the
involvement of good nutrition for good collagen synthesis. This
supports the author's concept set forth in 1976 that CHD is
nutritionally related rather than hereditary.
If it can be established that these alleged genes, in
fact, inhibit bone, cartilage, and muscle formation,
then it would be possible to control dysplasia through
nutritional Supplementation.
Some genetic tendencies can be overridden by other factors,
such as nutritional supplementation. The bottom line is, if
CHD can be prevented be it hereditary or nutritional there
is more to gain than to lose with the nutritional concept.
The author has developed a nutritional protocol for the
prevention and control of CHD. The protocol begins with
the pregnant bitch.
To ensure a healthy pregnancy, the female is administered
Mega C Plus. This supplement will aid in the maintenance of
a good pregnancy and a healthy litter. This vitamin / mineral
compound will enhance immune function and most importantly,
aid in the synthesis of collagen while the pups are developing
in utero.
After the birth of the litter, Mega C Drops (pediatric formula) is
administered to each pup within two hours and is continued through
weaning. Mega C Drops is a formula containing hydrolyzed protein
(collagen), vitamin C as sodium ascorbate, plus other essential
nutrients that enhances collagen synthesis.
Postweaning, the pups are placed on a Mega
C Plus regimen through two years of age.
The author discusses CHD, at the cell level, in the forthcoming
textbook "Complementary and Alternative Veterinary Medicine:
Practices and Principle" published by Mosby. There has been
extensive research in recent years concerning collagen synthesis
by many renown biochemists that supports the author's nutritional
concept.
This new textbook is targeting veterinary practitioners and
educators and will be available September, 1997.
------------------------
>> * PennHip evaluation
>> * OVC evaluation
>> * GDC evaluation
They're all the SAME SCAM wearing different clothes.
Recent research from Purdue SEZ that ascorbic acid added to dog food
INCREASES the chances of GVD (bloat, gastric torsion) by 320%.
Here's the RESEARCH article from Purdue:
http://www.vet.purdue.edu/epi/dietrisk.htm
Canine Bloat and Temperament by Myrna Milani, DVM
"Originally written for DogWatch, a newsletter for the general public
from the Cornell University College of Veterinary Medicine
The study of gastric dilatation-volvulus (GDV or bloat) in dogs
conducted by Lawrence Glickman and his team of researchers
at the Center for the Human-Animal Bond at Purdue University
did indeed show that dogs judged nervous or fearful by their
owners were at higher risk than happy, easy-going ones.
But how could this be? Unfortunately, currently studies of
disease or injury don't take the role of the animal's behavior
or its relationship with the owner into account.
However, hopefully the increased interest shown in the links between
behavior and health by human health professionals and the general
public will stimulate more research in this aspect of veterinary
medicine, too.
Beyond that, though, we can get some hints regarding what
might occur in domestic animals from what we know happens
in wild ones. When frightened by a predator, a wild animal
will immediately empty its bladder and defecate to decrease
its weight to enable it to fight or run more efficiently.
Consequently, the normal fear response involves a period of
hypermotility or increased activity of the gut to empty it,
followed by hypomotility which allows the animal to channel
maximum energy to the skeletal muscles for flight or fighting.
In the wild, the prey animal which finds itself in this situation
usually either gets away from the predator or gets caught and
eaten. within a relatively short time. If the animal gets away,
normal gut motility becomes re-established and may remain
so for a fairly long time.
Although nature films sometimes give the impression that
animals spend most of their time fighting or fleeing predators,
such encounters make up a comparatively small part of the
wild animal's day.
Compare this to the life led by the average timid dog in a complex
suburban environment. Every time fearful Freddy hears a strange
noise during his owner's absence, he wants to run and hide. Shortly
after his owner goes to work, the sound of the school bus sets him off.
His ancestral brain sends a message to the smooth muscle of his
gut to empty out and prepare for the great fight or escape. However,
house-trained Freddy wouldn't dream of doing that, or maybe his
gut is empty because he only gets fed in the evening.
Whatever the reason, the hypermotile phase comes to a screeching
halt when he bolts for the door and begins barking frantically. Freddy
survives that assault and his gut starts functioning normally again.
But then an hour later the mail arrives. An hour after that, the UPS
man leaves a package. Then the kids next door start playing ball, and
a dog starts barking on the next block. Each time something frightens
him, Freddy's gut speeds up, shuts down, then starts up again. Perhaps
after repeated episodes of this, it loses its ability to contract normally
and dilates, just like a balloon that's been repeatedly inflated and
deflated
eventually loses its elasticity.
But what about dogs like Clementine who drool, vomit, or get
diarrhea when they get scared? Instead of their guts shutting
down, they go into overdrive. In reality, Freddy's and Clementine's
responses probably represent variations on the same theme.
Freddy can muster the courage to get beyond the gut-emptying
freeze state, but Clementine remains stuck there. Perhaps her
gut just keeps churning until it can't churn any more.
In both cases though, when the dogs eat that night, the digestive
juices flow as usual but their stomachs don't contract to mix things
to aid digestion and gas builds up. At some point before or during
this process, and added by a body type that lends itself to this, the
stomach flips and GDV results.
Again, this all remains speculation based on wild animal behavior.
Still, it serves as yet another good reason to keep our dogs' minds
as healthy as their bodies.:
>> Eye Clearance
>> * CERF evaluation
MORE BULLSHIT SCAM ART:
PRA a.k.a. progressive renal atrophy is likeWIZE a
100% PREVENTABLE vitamin E deficiency <{}:~ ) >
HOWEver, like the OFA, the CERF foundation would
GO HOWETA BUSINESS was they to ADMIT to the
FACTS and SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH provided:
http://www.guidedogs.org.uk/fileadmin/
gdba/images/downloads/CPRAisntanymore.doc
>> Autoimmune thyroiditis
Auto-immune DIS-EASE is CAUSED by STRESS from
TOXIC veterinary malpractices and ABUSE <{}: ~ ( >
Thyroid DIS-EASE can be PREVENTED by
simply feedin chicken necks <{}: ~ ( >:
From: Human_And_Animal_Behavior_
Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory @HotMail.Com
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 11:45:42 -0700
Subject: Thyroid - Think CHICKEN NECKS!
The Thyroid Gland
More than you'll ever need to know about the Thyroid Gland.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.pets.dogs.behavior/browse_thread/t...
http://tinyurl.com/6s6p3s
>> * OFA evaluation from an approved laboratory
>> Congenital Cardiac Database
>> * OFA evaluation
IT'S ALL BULLSHIT. Here's the FACTS:
http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard/nutritionhealthca...
DIET / Nutrition / Health Care / VETERINARY PARASITES - MALPRACTICE And
IATROGENIC / Stress Induced AUTO-
IMMUNE DIS-EASES
HOWEDY People,
As has been my standard operating procedure for the past eight
years, I always prefer to IDENTIFY EXXXPOSE and DISCREDIT
the EXXXPERTS in the industry BY CITING THEIR OWN WRITTEN WORDS and CASE
HISTORIES of their own DISMAL FAILURES
pryor to espHOWESING the PROVEN FACTS as you've been taught
thus far, RIGHT HERE.
THAT way, when I tell you sumpthin there AIN'T NO FURTHER
NEED for you to ask idiotic questions or for me to EXXXPLAIN
further, other than to say you got NO CHOICE but to believe me
"on accHOWENTA I SEZ SO".
In the following sections the veterinary mal- practicioner's
discreditation by NEW research they TRY to SUPPRESS
is included in each topic rather than in advance, to avoid
obsfucation and repetition. Further references and dis-
creditation of specific malpracticioners can be found on
the newsgroups.
SEE?
EZ, AIN'T IT!
So JUST SAY "THANK YOU and G-D BLESS The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin
Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat,
Ferret, Monkey SpHOWES And Horsey Wizard <{}'; ~ ) >
CAVEAT:
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy,
Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey SpHOWES And Horsey Wizard
NOT a veterinarian.
HE only IDENTIFIES EXXXPOSES and DIS- CREDITS the
veterinary malpracticioners who'll do and say ANY THING to
rip you off for your hard earned dough at the EXXXPENSE
of your dog's life and well being by SELLING you EXXXCESSIVE
unnecessary ineffective repetitive toxic vaccinations, systemic toxic
parasite treatments and "routine procedures" necessitated by and
NECESSITATING MORE of their IATROGENIC DIS-EASE
PRODUCING "idiopathic" DIS-EASES as taught to them by their
veterinary schools FUNDED BY the COMMERCIAL DOG FOOD manufacturers and
PHARMACUTICAL COMPANIES.
After all, if medical specialists could CURE
DIS-EASE, they'd GO HOWETA BUSINESS.
WOULDN'T THEY <{}:~ ( >
LikeWIZE, IF THEY COULD DEFEND THEMSELVES,
THEY WOULD.
WOULDN'T THEY <{}'; ~ ) >
> Thanks for the advice.
There's a lot more comin, Peter. Stick arHOWEND <{}: ~ ) >
> Peter
The Methods, Principles And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change,
Or They'd Not Be Scientific
And Could Not Obtain
Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective, Safe Results
For All Handler's And All Critters,
And ALL Behaviors
In ALL FIELDS And ALL UTILITIES,
ALL OVER The Whole Wild World,
NEARLY INSTANTLY,
As Taught In Your Own FREE Copy Of
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
M-A-J-E-S-T-I-C
G-R-A-N-D
M-A-S-T-E-R
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey
SpHOWES And Horsey Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
***FREE***
WWW Wits' End Dog, Child, Kat, Goat, Ferret, Monkey
SpHOWES And Horsey
Training Method Manual<{) ; ~ )>
All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer
"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.
"If you've got them by the balls
their hearts and minds
will follow,"
John Wayne.
"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!"
"Against stupidity the Gods themselves contend in vain!"
-Friedrich Schiller.
INDEEDY.
AND THAT'S HOWE COME THEY GOT ME NHOWE!
In Love And Light,
I Remain Respectfully, Humbly Yours,
The World's CRUELEST Trainer
Jerry Howe,
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
*M-A-J-E-S-T-I-C* *G-R-A-N-D* *M-A-S-T-E-R*
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Ferret, Goat, Monkey
SpHOWES And Horsey Wizard <{) ;~ ) >
HOWE MAY I SERVE YOU <{}; ~ ) >
Sincerely,
Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
Human And Animal Behavior
Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory,
BIOSOUND Scientific,
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St
Orlando, FL 32805
Phone: 1-407-425-5092 (Call ANY TIME)
http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard
E-mail:
Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
@HotMail.Com
Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
@HotMail.Com
TheSimplyAmazingPuppyWizard @Mail.Com
MSN, AT&T Or AIM Messenger @:
TheSimplyAmazingPuppyWizard @HotMail.Com
ThePuppyWizard @BellSouth.Net
,-._,-,
V)"(V
(_o_) Have a great day!
/ V)
(l l l) Your Puppy Wizard. <{YPW} ; ~ } >
oo-oo
cybercat
"CatNipped" <CatN...@PossiblePlaces.com> wrote in message
She's been coming around here for years on and off, and I wondered when she
would air her asshole views on animals as objects to display/status symbols.
Janet Boss
"cybercat" <cyber...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> She's been coming around here for years on and off, and I wondered when she
> would air her asshole views on animals as objects to display/status symbols.
Where are my animals display/status symbols? Where do I indicate that
anyone else's are? You're all so caught up in your rhetoric that you
can't see straight, and fabricate all sorts of things. A strange
approach. I hope lurkers reading this stuff understand that your
extremism is just that.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
lyin dog murderin punk thug coward active acute life-long
incurable manic depressive MENTAL CASE,
"elegy" <el...@DOGPOOPshattering.org> wrote in message
news:obs774htqkh2gk357...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 08 Jul 2008 14:33:59 -0500, diddy <none> wrote:
>
>>The answer is, they are ignorant a GOOD breeder is
>> putting NOTHING into the shelters, and breeding
>> animals that have a lifetime of healthy animals.
THAT"S ABSURD>
> amen.
>
> and kudos to you for doing all the health testing on tuck.
Oh, for SHORE~!
Here's HOWE COME you had to CUT HOWET Harve's eye:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzBtxevvcFs&mode=user&search=
> i am always glad to see good breeders with
> good dogs who are willing to PROVE it.
Perhaps you missed diddler's postin of Tuck's
GENETIC DEFECTIVE pedigree?
Here's elegy, PIT BULL RESCUER who MURDERED
her LAST FOUR CONSECUTIVE "rescue" dogs.
LIKE THIS:
Homer 1994 - 03.01.2007"
brothers and sisters i bid you beware
of giving your heart to a dog to tear
i put homer to sleep yesterday.
it was quite possibly the hardest thing i've ever done.
monday night i was trying to teach him to down using a
food lure. he wasn't getting it, so i put a hand on him to
try to encourage him to down. he attacked me, biting me
twice on the hand, and then when i stood up and backed
away, he came after me more and bit me on the leg as well.
i was shocked and devestated and a hundred other things.
i ended up emailing my trainer (who has turned out to be a
very kind friend) and she called me and i spent an hour on
the phone with her crying. she doesn't deal with aggression
cases, but she listened to me and talked me down. i hardly
slept that night.
tuesday i took homer in to work with me and had the vet
feel his neck. i didn't think it was a reaction due to pain
but i had to check it out. the vet put his hands on the sides
of homer's head and manipulated his head around. homer
didn't show any signs of pain or discomfort. he went
through the motions some more.
homer flipped out, with no warning, extremely violently. it
took him a long time (it felt like a lifetime. it was probably
around 3 minutes) to calm down enough that the vet could
take his hands off of homer without anybody getting hurt.
i went home for lunch and called a behaviorist. i spent a lot
of the day reading the brenda aloff aggression book and the
karen overall behavior book.
that night the behaviorist called me and i told her what had
happened and she asked questions and i answered them as
best i could.
she gave him a pretty poor prognosis.
everything that she said made sense to me, and nothing
she said was earth-shattering or even really anything
that i didn't already know.
this morning i took him in and held him close and cried into
his fur and told him how much i love him and let him go.
he was a dangerous dog. he bit unpredictably and with no
warning. he was a love, a snugglebug, a sweet sweet dog
as long as you didn't do anything he didn't want done. but
if you tried to "make" him do something he didn't want to
do, all bets were off. his reaction could be a snap or it could
be an over-the-top meltdown.
i couldn't live with a dog like that.
i *will not* live with a dog like that.
i've spent the last three days crying my eyes out. i never
imagined i could get that attached to a dog who i had for
all of 12 days and who bit me several times during those
12 days.
but i was. i loved him.
i loved him ferociously, but i had to let him go.
for his sake.
for my sake.
for the sake of luce and mushroom.
i feel horrible. heartbroken. guilty. angry.
and yet i don't regret him, not for one moment,
despite how things turned out.
Replies: 2 comments
i'm sorry, but human aggression is a deal-breaker, especially
unpredictable, unwarned human-aggression. there is too much
at stake and too much to lose.
Posted by e @ 03/26/2007 06:49 AM EST
You were just as unpredictable to Homer.
Shame on you for giving him only 12 days.
-----------------------
> dressing her up like that lures in so many innocent people bwahahaha
"bwahahaha"?
> "what kind of dog is she?"
> "she's a pit bull"
> "really??!!"
>
> it was all good responses yesterday, one hundred percent,
> which is awesomeness.
LUCKY THING her leis was coverin her PRONGED SPIKED PINCH CHOKE COLLAR
otherWIZE she'd of SCARED ordinary people.
> --
> http://underdogged.net
> x-no-archive:yes in headers
HOWE COME would you set your INFORMATIVE posts to
EXXXPIRE in six days, elegy? Are you EMBARRASSED
by your own words, you lyin animal murderin punk thug coward
mental case fraud an SCAM ARTIST, like montana, diddler,
professora melanie chang, cindy title moore of k9web.com,
and not so happy, not so handsome, not so gentle jackass, not
even jack morrison, a.k.a. BIG DADDY a.k.a. DOGMAN a.k.a.
tommy sorenson of sorenson's Retriever PUPPY MILL and
SHOCK COLLAR SALES??
Are they EMBARRASSED by their own words, the lyin animal
murderin punk thug coward mental cases frauds an SCAM ARTISTS?
matty aka Rocky EXXXPLAINS HOWE COME:
"Rocky" <2d...@rocky-dog.com> wrote
For reasons I'll only explain privately, I've gone no
archive, and it's a shame. Once in a while, while
looking for something else, I'll run into an old post
of mine. What an idiotic response! Whoops.
BWEEEAAAHAHAAAHAAHAAA!~!~!
Subject: Stress Induced Blindness - Effects Of Emotions On Glaucoma
HOWEDY People,
Fri, Sep 26 2003
Just reported this week from opthamologic society
that men who wear tight fitting neckties tend to have
MOORE glaucoma.
You can't be jerking and choking and scoldin your
dogs no MOORE. LIKE THIS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzBtxevvcFs&mode=user&search=
You're KILLIN and making your dogs go blind, to boot:
The most common precipitating events include illness,
emotional stress, trauma, intense concentration, and
pharmacologic pupillary dilation.[Sugar, 1941 #116; Lowe,
1961 #8957] The role of emotional stress in inducing acute
angle-closure should not be underestimated.[Inman, 1929
#190; Egan, 1955 #189; Cross, 1960 #188]
From: David Wright (djwri...@tesco.net)
Subject: Re: Effects of emotions on glaucoma
Newsgroups: alt.support.glaucoma
Date: 1999/07/01
The role of stress in glaucoma is difficult to establish but
anecdotal evidence from many doctors suggests that it might
well play a role in glaucoma. As far as we know there are not
any clinical papers on the subject, indeed part of the problem
in investigating the relationship of stress to any condition
is that the investigation itself tends to be somewhat
stressful. However, the best advice would be to keep stress
levels as low as possible without raising them again by
worrying about it.
David Wright MSAE
Chief Executive, International Glaucoma Association
While we are pleased to offer the above information, it is not
possible for the International Glaucoma Association to advise
on an individual patient's eye condition or treatment as this
has to be the role of their own doctor or eye specialist who
knows the full details of their particular case.
----------
In article <7lfuf7$f5...@nnrp1.deja.com>, m...@my-deja.com wrote:
>I seem to recall hearing on occasion the role of stress on
>eye pressure. My doc asked me on my last tonometry if I was
>under stress. However, after researching the subject I cannot
>find out anything. Many areas of medicine have acknowleged
>the role of stress reduction on things such as blood
>pressure, the immune system, pain sensitivity etc.
> What about things like anxiety, insomnia, anger, depression,
> etc and the effects on eye pressure. Is there any correlation?
>Does biofeedback have any effect on reducing eye pressure? If
>there hasn't been any research like this there should be! I
>would appreciate any thoughts on this subject.
>Thanks.
From: ritch (r...@inx.inx.net)
Subject: Re: Cerebrospinal Pressure,Glaucoma, etc.
Newsgroups: sci.med.vision, alt.support.glaucoma
Date: 1996/01/26
2. Constant elevated IOP was shown to block axoplasmic
transport at the level of the lamina cribrosa a generation ago
by electron microscopic studies. However, it has more recently
been advocated that shear stress is just as important. In the
latter case, changes in IOP can cause sliding of the plates of
the lamina cribrosa over each other, twisting and damaging the
axons that pass through it.
=========================
Natural Eye Care, An Encyclopedia: Complementary
Treatments For Improving And Saving Your Eyes Marc
Grossman, O.D., L.Ac. & Glen Swartwout, O.D. Keats
Publishing/NTC/Contemporary Publishing Group, Inc.
4255 West Touhy Avenue, Lincolnwood, IL
60646 0-87983-704-7 $16.95
As well as being practicing optometrists, Dr. Marc
Grossman and Dr. Glen Swartwout have been trained
in Chinese medicine, acupuncture, and naturopathic
medicine.
Both have also published previous books. Their joint
effort, Natural Eye Care, An Encyclopedia: Complementary
Treatments For Improving And Saving Your Eyes, draws
from the best of traditional and modern medicine for the
prevention and treatment of eye disorders.
The authors say that their "primary goal is to offer a
practical approach to vision care based on an underlying
philosophy that emphasizes prevention rather than cure."
They begin with a fascinating discussion of how the eye
functions, including information like "the entire blood volume
of the body passes through the eyes every 40 minutes or so."
Although many of us don't realize it, our eyes are the
first to suffer when we feel physical or mental stress. They
also cite studies showing that allergies in children improve
when their vision is enhanced through vision therapy.
Dr. Grossman and Dr. Swartwout devote one chapter to a
explanation of the various natural treatments and how they are
used for treating vision disorders.
They emphasize the "vision diet," which focuses on eating
lots of fresh foods and eliminating processed or refined foods.
They also discuss the role of Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM),
acupressure, herbs, physical exercise, eye exercises, spinal
adjustments, and homeopathy in preventing and treating eye
diseases.
Each of the following eye diseases have their own chapter:
glaucoma, cataracts, macular degeneration, dry eyes, sties,
floaters, and conjunctivitis (pink eye). The authors provide a
description of the causes and symptoms of each disease, and a
summary of conventional treatment. They then describe a
healing program for those who have each vision disorder, based
on natural treatments. Each chapter ends with a prevention
program for those who still have healthy eyes.
An appendix provides acupressure directions. They also
include an extensive reference section, and listing for resources
for those who can't obtain natural products locally.
Dr. Grossman and Dr. Swartwout say that "the good news
is that we don't have to be passive victims of eye disease. Eye
deterioration can often be stopped--and even reversed." Readers
will find Natural Eye Care, An Encyclopedia a comprehensive
and invaluable resource for the prevention and treatment of vision
disorders. Paper. 196 pp.
The Pit Bull Problem,
Breed Specific Legislation
And
The Pit Bull Fancier / RESCUER
HOWEDY People,
Thanks to katie aka elegy (el...@shatteing.org),
a devHOWET Pit Bull RESCUER who's love and life revolves
arHOWEND RESCUING defenseless, misunderstood Pit Bull
Dogs, we have "The Pit Bull Problem":
HOWEDY elegy you miserable lying dog abusing punk thug
coward active acute long term incurable MENTAL CASE,
elegy wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 17:30:35 -0500, kate <ka...@thisaintreal.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I'm a new (and somewhat reluctant) owner of a pit bull.
> > I'm not sure this is the right place to ask, but I'm
> > giving it a shot.
Seems Kat AIN'T been PAYIN ATTENTION here on The
Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual Forums, eh elegy? You think you can
HOODWINK her into HURTIN her dog like HOWE you do
your dogs, elegy, you SHELTER / RESCUE dog lover?
> > Can pit bulls play with other dogs off leash?
A DOG IS A DOG, AIN'T THAT SO, elegy.
> > Can they ever be off leash
Just like ANY other BREED.
> > if not in a fenced area?
ONLY IF you know HOWE to install the come command as a
CONDITIONAL REFLEX as taught in your own FREE COPY
of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual.
> i have two pits.
INDEEDY. And you jerk and choke them on your pronged
spiked pinch choke collar and SHOCK them to CONTRAIN
them in your yard and if they DON'T LIKE THAT you
take them to the SHELTER to be MURDERED for bein
AGGRESSIVE.
> one is nutsy around all other dogs
ALL AGGRESSION IS FEAR.
ALL FEAR IS CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.
> except his "sister",
MOST of HOWER DOG LOVERS can't keep their
own OPPOSITE SEX dogs withHOWET fighting.
> but luce can play nicely with certain other dogs.
You mean when he AIN'T AFRAID.
> she's got a good standard poodle friend and a
> good goldendoodle friend, and she's played with
> a couple of other male dogs, always in a very
> controlled environment
You mean when you're standin right there ready
to THREATEN and HURT him if he acts AFRAID.
> and with careful and appropriate introductions.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHHAHHAHAAA!!!
> i would never ever ever take her to a dogpark though.
That's curiHOWES ain't it, elegy.
> ever.
On accHOWENT of your dogs are FEAR AGGRESSIVE
JUST LIKE the rest of these mentally ill lyin
dog abusing punk thug cowards for the same reason.
> she also can't be off-leash in an unfenced area
On accHOWENT of she'll RUN HOWET ON YOU on accHOWENT
of YOU CHOKE and SHOCK your dogs, isn't THAT correct,
elegy you miserable lying dog abusing punk thug coward.
> because her recall is lousy
DESPITE your SHOCK COLLAR, just like jeff dege's dog, elegy?
> in the face of anything she wants to chase.
INDEED? BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAAAA!!!
> mushroom's recall is somewhat better
You mean he WON'T COME unless you can HURT him ENOUGH.
> but i still wouldn't take my chances.
On accHOWENT of you're a DOG ABUSING SIMPLETON.
> > With all the media hype about pits,
That MEDIA HYPE COMES FROM the Pit Bull Fanciers
like elegy. Isn't that correct, elegy. Remember
last week when you sent in that link with all
the EXXXCELLENT advice? They SELL SHOCK COLLARS.
They advised to break a dog of chasing his tail to
allow him to DO IT for a minute AND THEN IGNORE IT
despite that TAIL CHASING is an ANXXXIHOWESNESS
BEHAVIOR which can becom COMPULSIVE / OBSESSIVE.
> > and the different rescue websites
The RESPONSIBLE ETHICKAL RESCUE DOG LOVERS like elegy...
> > I've visited, it sounds like you never want them
> > to become overstimulated. If true, how do you keep
> > a hyper dog from becoming over stimulated?
HYPERACTIVE DOGS ARE MADE HYPERACTIVE BY DOG ABUSERS LOCKING THEM IN BOXES
and CHOKING and
SHOCKING THEM.
> i don't think you have to worry about them getting
> overstimulated so much as you have to worry about
> them being dog aggressive,
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAAAA!!!
> which is absolutely normal for the breed.
THAT'S INSANE, elegy. THAT'S HOWE COME Pit
Bull dogs GOT a BAD REPUTATION you dog abusing
MENTAL CASE.
> some pit bulls are more dog aggro than others,
A DOG IS A DOG, elegy. You HURT INTIMIDATE
and MURDER dogs that SCARE YOU, elegy.
> some have very specific dislikes (luce hates female dogs
Luce is FEAR AGGRESSIVE of same sex dogs,
unlike your male dog who's FEAR AGGRESSIVE
of ALL dogs, isn't that correct, elegy.
> of similar body type and will try to eat them
> but small female dogs and giant female dogs
> seem to be ok).
THAT'S INSANE.
> some are just quick to take offense in play.
No, they're AFRAID on accHOWENT of YOU ABUSE THEM.
> luce is a very high energy dog.
You mean she's HYPERACTIVE.
> i take her to run in a fenced yard daily.
Or she'll GO INSANE JUST LIKE THE REST of HOWER
DOG LOVER'S FEAR AGGRESSIVE HYPERACTIVE DOGS:
"Max will go BONKERS if exercise deprived," marshall dermer.
> she and mushroom, my male, play a lot of tug and
> a lot of chase. when it was just her and me, we
> played a lot of tug and did a lot of training.
Your "TRAINING" is HOWE COME she's HYPERACTIVE and FEAR AGGRESSIVE.
> brain work seems to tire her out a
> lot faster than purely physical play.
Naaah? Do tell?
> (mushroom's pretty low energy. just walking
> and general play tires him out plenty.)
Oh. You mean he's hpothyroid, a STRESS INDUCED
AUTO-IMMUNE DIS-EASE aka The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME.
> --
> read banned books.
> http://shattering.org
> x-no-archive: yes in headers
Seems Kat WANTS somethin LIKE THIS:
Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.pitbull
From: elegy <e...@DOGPOOPshattering.org>
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 23:09:44 -0400
Subject: Re: A question about pit bulls.
Note: The author of this message requested
that it not be archived. This message will
be removed from Groups in 20 hours
unknown history has less to do with the
possibility of fighting than genetics.
you can take the pit bull out of the pit but
you can't take the pit out of the pit bull.
personally i am not willing to risk my dogs'
lives by leaving two fighting breed dogs alone
together no matter how well they get along when
i'm there.
--
http://shattering.org
x-no-archive: yes in headers
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 09:36:24 -0400
Subject: Re: A question about pit bulls.
Note: The author of this message requested
that it not be archived. This message will
be removed from Groups in 6 hours
On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 20:49:57 -0400, elegy
<e...@DOGPOOPshattering.org> wrote:
any *good* vet will take the dog at face value
and not muzzle or notmuzzle based on breed alone.
most pit bulls are actually fantastic at the vet
because they're such a people-loving and stoic
breed. i actually haven't yet had a bad experience
with a pit bull working in a veterinary environment,
even ones that were bad torn up from fights.
i know there are nasty pit bulls out there, and
fear-biters as well, but thankfully they're they
minority.
Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.pitbull
From: "Russ" <dontmailmeillmail...@abc.com>
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 20:01:09
Subject: Re: A question about pit bulls.
L Alpert,
It's unknown how a just graduated from highschool 17
year old male will act in the Summer holidays at the
local hang out, when confronted by the bully that
bullied and tormented him throughout the last 5 years
of highschool.
He may fall in line or he may react. Your dog is just
maturing, he may decide to be lower in the pack for
his entire life. Especially if you support the alpha.
BUT, if the pit decides in his own mind that it is
enough and decides to challenge for the top spot.
Your lifestyle will most likely change. All we are
trying to tell you is, be ready, be prepared, and
take precautions.
I don't know if you have seen a pitbull in its
virgin fight, but I can tell you they don't need
to taught to win against 99% of the other breeds
like rotties, gsd's, labs, etc. they will kick
ass and you will be mopping up.
Cleaning wounds and sticking your fingers into 1
nch deep gashes and punctures is not fun. And this
happened when I was there to break it up.
Imagine if you are not there to intervene. I am so
glad my dogs don't hate each other. Otherwise I would
have have a serious dilemma:) "X's fingers and thanks God"
===================
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHHAHHAAAA!!!
Here's elegy aka katie doin her beast to IDENTIFY
the Pit Bull Problem and SAVE the Pit Bull from
harm by EXXXPOSING the rabid anti Pit Bull hysteria:
> you don't have to be a big-time pit bull
> activist to be aware of the pit bull problem.
A DOG Is A DOG;
As A KAT Is A KAT;
As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES
As A Mass Murderer Is A Mass Murderer.
> all you have to do is tune into the nightly news. it's
> there all the time. such and such pit bull attacked this
> child, this old person's little fluffy dog, the neighbor,
> etc etc etc. some of it isn't true-sometimes it's not pit
> bulls. and there are plenty of other dog attacks happening,
> but they aren't as fashionable right now, so they're less
> likely to be reported (or their reported with "pit bull"
> in the headline despite the actual breed of dog).
> poorly bred blue pit bulls are prone to skin conditions like
> demodex (a type of mange which is a result of a poor immune
> system) and allergies.
CASE CLOSED, eh People???
> many of these problems have a genetic component
The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard has DISCREDITED
the Canine Genome Project base on the DISCREDITATION of
the EXXXPERTS workin on it, dra. karen overall and her
"patients" professora melanie chang and her fear aggressive
hyperactive BC Solo, who, after FIVE YEARS of "TREATMENT"
and psychotropic anti psychotic medications has made NO
improvement:
"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It A Sharp
Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know Jack Wouldn't
Have Done It If He Thought Solo Couldn't Take It. I Still
Crate Him Because Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My
Cat," Melanie Lee Chang * mch...@lppi.ucsf.edu
Canine Behavioral Genetics Project
University of California, San Francisco
http://psych.ucsf.edu/K9BehavioralGenetics/
From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST
Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.
Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
> and while it wouldn't be possble to completely eliminate
> health problems through health testing, it is possible to
> lessen the chance of them.
That's ABSURD.
> responsible breeders get to know potential buyers.
Ahhh, THAT'S the SECRET to ETHICKAL BREEDIN,
AIN'T IT, dog lovers.
> they grill them.
Perhaps they should "catch and release" them?
> they care about where their dogs are going, and
> they keep track of them through their entire lives.
OtherWIZE they'd be COMPETING with their own BREED STOCK.
> they microchip pups before they leave.
Microchippin dogs to PREVENT ESCAPE??? That's ABSURD.
But it HAS been implicated in CAUSING CANCERS.
> they have tight and required spay/neuter contracts.
Surgical sexual mutilation is unnecessary unethical
veterinary malpractice which ONLY benefits the
ETHICKAL VETERINARY MALPRACTICIONER
and ETHICKAL BREEDER <{):~ ( >
Here's a few FACTS your fellHOWE pathetic miserable stinkin
rotten lyin animal murderin punk thug coward active accute chronic
life-long incurable malignant maliciHOWES MENTAL CASES and
veterinary malpracticioners DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW:
"Unlike what you will find in Spay/Neuter Fact Sheets,
the health impacts of spay/neuter that are discussed in
this paper are all backed up with citations to the veterinary
medical literature. You can find the paper here:
http://escregistry.kattare.com/healthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf
Material that includes research data from 2006, 2005
was presented at ACC&D's Third International Symposium,
and part of the slideshows presentedare available here:
http://www.acc-d.org/2006%20Symposium%20Docs/Session%20I.pdf
Issues regarding previous assumptions on what neutering
does as a 'benefit' are pretty well challenged in this data above.
Alliance for Contraception in Cats and Dogs (ACC&D) is a
nonprofit 501C(3) group involved in attempting to study, define
and resolve some of the problems that currently exist internationally
as they regard issues of animal population control.
"More than 120 representatives from universities, animal welfare
organizations, foundations, companies, and government agencies
from 11 countries gathered to share information and plan for the
future". Main site: http://www.acc-d.org/
"On the negative side, neutering male dogs if done before maturity,
increases the risk of osteosarcoma (bone cancer) by a factor of 3.8;
this is a common ancer in medium/large and larger breeds with a
poor prognosis.
increases the risk of cardiac hemangiosarcoma by a factor of 1.6;
this is a common cancer and major cause of death in some breeds
triples the risk of hypothyroidism
increases the risk of geriatric cognitive impairment
triples the risk of obesity, a common health problem in dogs with
it the many associated health problems associated with obesity
· quadruples the small risk (<0.6%) of prostate cancer
· doubles the small risk (<1%) of urinary tract cancers
· increases the risk of orthopedic disorders
· increases the risk of adverse reactions to vaccinations
Hemangiosarcoma is a common cancer in dogs. It is a major
cause of death in some breeds, such as Salukis, French Bulldogs,
Irish Water Spaniels, Flat Coated Retrievers, Golden Retrievers,
Boxers, Afghan Hounds, English Setter, Scottish Terrier, Boston
Terrier, Bulldogs, and German Shepherd Dogs24.
In an aged-matched case controlled study, spayed females were
found to have a 2.2 times higher risk of splenic hemangiosarcoma
compared to intact females24.
A retrospective study of cardiac hemangiosarcoma risk factors
found a >5 times greater risk in spayed female dogs compared
to intact female dogs and a 1.6 times higher risk in neutered male
dogs compared to intact male dogs.25
The authors suggest a protective effect of sex hormones against
hemangiosarcoma, especially in females.
In breeds where hermangiosarcoma is an important cause of
death, the increased risk associated with spay/neuter is likely
one that should factor into decisions on whether or when to
sterilize a dog.
Hypothyroidism
Spay/neuter in dogs was found to be correlated with a three fold
increased risk of hypothyroidism compared to intact dogs. The
researchers suggest a cause-and-effect relationship26.
They wrote: "More important [than the mild direct impact on thyroid
function] in the association between [spaying and] neutering and
hypothyroidism may be the effect of sex hormones on the immune
system.
Castration increases the severity of autoimmune thyroiditis in mice"
which may explain the link between spay/neuter and hypothyroidism
in dogs.
"Dr. Spain, who has been recently involved in many studies assessing
the long-term risks and benefits of early-age neutering, presented
convincing data about the effects of spay/neuter on hip dysplasia,
cranial cruciate ligament rupture, long bone development, body
weight, diabetes, urinary tract infections, mammary cancer, and
several other conditions."
CONCLUSIONS
An objective reading of the veterinary medical literature reveals
a complex situation with respect to the longterm health impacts
of spay/neuter in dogs.
The evidence shows that spay/neuter correlates with both positive
AND adverse health effects in dogs. It also suggests how much we
really do not yet understand about this subject.
On balance, it appears that no compelling case can be made for
neutering most male dogs to prevent future health problems,
especially immature male dogs. The number of health problems
associated with neutering may exceed the associated health
benefits in most cases.
----------------------------
> they are willing to take their pups back at any time,
As they frequently must do.
> no matter what.
And then they MURDER them as bein UNFIT for WORKIN with people.
> they accept that they created them and are responsible for them.
AND THEY MURDER THEIR OWN DEFECTIVE DOGS.
> responsible breeders do NOT contribute
> to the number of dogs in the shelter.
Perhaps they DO by not meeting the market needs for
large numbers of ETHICKALLY BRED Pit Bull dogs <{); ~ ) >
Here's a ETHICKAL Grey HOWEND rescuer:
"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness," mustang sally.
"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me.
I volunteered as assistant to the euthanasia
tech at our local shelter for a while, and
I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.
This however has nothing at all to do with
responsible breeders, because responsible
breeders don't contribute to that problem,"
Mustang Sally.
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001
Subject: Re: shock collars
Sally Hennessey <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:b8m1dtsv6vuiblo63...@4ax.com...
Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-
righteous, this post shows and absence of knowledge
in the differences in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps
a lack of ability to perceive same.
The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to
whom corrections and discomfort, even pain, were
unimportant does not mean that such dogs do not exist.
What it means is that you don't know as much about
dogs as you think you do, and you surely don't know
a damn thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.
I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with
one of her housemates; that dog had no fear or
anything, and pain incurred during a fight meant
nothing to her.
I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that
you, Alison, continue to say things to people such as
what you said to Theresa about causing her dog to
suffer (at least I guess that's what you meant by
"you cause your dog suffers" - - must be the King's
English you guys talk about over there) means that
you are an ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person
who is not worth further notice.
Sally Hennessey
"Sally Hennessey" <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:54nuetsqgkhp26qqv...@4ax.com...
Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.
I'm starting to see some similarities here.
Sally Hennessey
-----------
> did i mention how few of these responsible breeders there are?
INDEEDY.
> an irresponsible breeder lets these dogs go to anyone
Like folks who'd allHOWE their ETHICKALLY BRED dogs to
go to dog parks and jeopardize the safety of J.Q. Pubic <{); ~ ) >
> and after the money has changed hands, they are done with
> the pups. these are the dogs that grow up to have unstable
> temperaments, or to be absolutely unsuitable for the family
> that bought them, to be too much work, to cost too much, to
> have health problems that the owners weren't bargaining for.
That's ABSURD.
> these are the dogs who get dumped in shelters every single
> day. these are the dogs running the streets, chained in the
> backyard, unsound in temperament.
No. These are the dogs who've been driven INSANE
by jerking choking shocking crating and surgical
sexual mutilation, poor diet and veterinary malpractice.
> but what can we do? i feel so helpless in the face of
> such rampant backyard breeding. i feel so helpless to
> do anything but talk myself blue about the problem and
> hope the word spreads.
We're workin on it, elegy...
> Coming Soon! Blogathon 2005 will be taking place on August
> 6, beginning at 9 AM Eastern time. My charity this year
> is Pit Bull Rescue Central.
SHAAAZZZAAAMMM!!!
> To sponsor me: my "campaign" information is listed here.
> In order to sponsor me, though, you have to register an
> account with the blogathon site. This doesn't mean you
> have to blog, stay up crazy hours, or anything like that.
> They just need your information in their system. From
> there you will be able to enter your pledge amount. It's
> supposed to be fixed so that it'll take you right back to
> my info, but if it doesn't, you'll unfortunately have to
> search through the campaigns. Mine is listed under the
. name katie and the website shattering [dot] org. Thanks
> to everyone for your >support!
> 08/06/2005: "11: the pit bull problem (part 2)"
> overbreeding is part one of the pit bull problem. it's
> a very significant part, mind you, but i don't think the
> most signficant part.
Agreed. The MOST SIGNIFICANT part is the Pit Bull Fancier
who jerks chokes shocks crates ribes intimidates and surgically
sexually mutilates their dogs whom they CANNOT CONFINE
despite their six foot privacy fence with shock barrier <{): ~ ( >
> irresponsible and uneducated ownership of these dogs
> is the most significant part of the pit bull problem.
INDEEDY: The Pit Bull Fancier.
> people get these dogs because they're cool, because
> they're "dangerous", because they're there.
AND BECAUSE THEY NEED SAVING <{); ~ ) >
> they have no idea what they're getting into.
AS WE'LL SEE:
> these are very high maintainance dogs.
katie means they're HYPERACTIVE:
Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last Student Demonstrated At
UofOH Oxford, That Rehabilitation Of Hyperactive
Dogs Can Easily And Readily Be Done Using TLC.
Tender Loving Care Is At The Root Of The Scientific
Management Of Doggys. <{) ; ~ ) >
> they're prone to dog aggression.
THAT'S INSANE. ALL aggression is FEAR. ALL FEAR
is CAUSED BY MISHANDLING as HOWER Pit Bull
Fanciers promote in their ETHICKAL BREEDING campaines.
> they're athletic and rowdy. they will get out of your yard.
> luce has gotten out of the yard three times and she's never
> ever left unattended, with six foot privacy fencing even.
> she's been through the fence (nice of her to find the loose
> boards) and under the fence. i know she'll be over it one
> day.
Well then perhaps you should learn HOWE to
pupperly TRAIN your dogs, elegy aka katie???
And NHOWE, let's get on with the elegy murderin
her own DEAD RESCUE dogs SHOWE:
On Oct 26, 6:06 pm, elegy <el...@DOGPOOPshattering.org> wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 19:27:15 +0200 (CEST), Anonymous
> <nob...@remailer.paranoici.org> wrote:
> > Puppy is about 7 months old. I'm trying to teach him "come."
> > Sometimes he does it fine. Other times, he just sits there, looks
>> at me and ignores me. It is extremely frustrating.
That ain't hardly as frustrating as MURDERIN your own
last TWO DEAD "RESCUE" dogs on accHOWENTA you
ABUSED them, is it, elegy, you pathetic miserable stinkin
lyin animal murderin punk thug coward active accute
chronic life long incurable mental case.
> this is my favorite link for teaching a reliable recall
> <http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/Lesson6.html>
Yeah? Your friend Mistress Shirley is a B&D/S&M SPECIALIST
who can't train the come command withHOWET her trusty SHOCK
COLLAR you pathetic lyin animal murderin ignorameHOWES:
Here's your PAL, MISTRESS shirly chong,
crapHOWES CLICKER TRAINER:
"To be effective as a positive punisher, I set the level
of shock at a level high enough (in my best guesstimation)
to be unpleasant to the dog. I want the dog to startle a
bit and even yelp when they get shocked.
No, this is not pleasant.
After each shock, I call the dog again (because many
dogs tend to panic when something mysteriously reaches
out and stings them)."
But don't go away yet, my pretty flying monkey, there's MOORE:
"If the dog is still refusing the recall, then I escalate my
aversive a bit--usually, to taking two big handfuls of ruff
as I move backwards.
Some dogs do get "long line wise.""
No, some trainers are just long line stupid.
You can't force a dog to come.
"That is, they never refuse a recall while on the long line
but when the long line is gone, they are unreliable even if
the handler started with close recalls off lead in a familiar
(and safely fenced) area."
That's because you can't teach compliance with force no
matter HOWE gently you try to force. ANY force, even verbal
intimidation, will cause the opposition reflex to compel the
dog to do other than what you want.
Too bad you sharp trainers here don't understand that. It's
called positive thigmotaxis, and it's just as valid with a
choke collar as it is with a mental attitude. Force causes
the dog to not respond.
"IF the dog never ever refuses a recall while on the long
line, no matter what the distraction (and I am pretty good
at devising distractions for this test!), then I move to a
shock collar."
That's a competent clicker trainer, by golly!
Where do you people come off with that kind of crap?
Here's Miss Shirly, the CLICKER TRAINER you recommended to us:
Newsgroups: soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm
From: M Shirley Chong <eithne @forest.pcpartner.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 02:16:30 -0500
Subject: Re: OT Big dog problem. Serious help needed
MasterofDelight wrote:
> Welcome back, and it sure did not take you long to pick up on
> the dog training thread. As you can see, you commentary was missed.
Thanks!
Yes, there's nothing more likely to lure me out of lurk
mode than a training question. I'd planned to lurk for
a couple weeks to get up to speed again but before I
knew it, the keyboard was rattling.
> OB:bdsm Do you give advice on "puppy training" too?
Sure! I may not have a clue as to what I'm talking
about but that never stops me.
Shirley eithne @direcway.com http://www.shirleychong.com
Newsgroups: soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm
From: M Shirley Chong <eit...@forest.pcpartner.net>
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 13:48:53 -0500
Subject: Re: pregnancy and S&M?
dionysiangrrrl wrote:
> I just learned I'm pregnant, and while in most respects, I find it to be
> excellent news, I'm a little concerned about play time. I'm a fairly heavy
> masochist used to frequent beatings and torture, and have held back from
> play so far until I get a little more advanced, just to be safe. But if I
> make it healthily through the first trimester, does anyone have any advice
> for pregnancy whompings? (Besides the fairly obvious "no more gut
> punches" rule :)
Congratulations!
My advice is to ask your doctor. Because your doctor is the
one who knows your specific conditions, because there's a
lot of advice out there of varying quality (including this!)
and because it's important to have peace of mind that you
are doing the right thing at a time like this.
Most doctors have heard it all. If they haven't heard it all,
they should have. <G> If you have reason to believe that your
doctor may react badly then maybe that's an indication this
isn't the doctor for you.
Better to find this out now rather than when you are in
labor and not in the mood to holler at some rank narrow
mindedness and unable to gather your dignity and march out.
Those hospital gowns just don't cut it for dignified exits
unless you back out the door and then there's the little
problem of who is out in the hall.
Much easier in the long run to tell the truth.
Shirley
Newsgroups: soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm
From: redneckpai...@aol.comspam (Joe Sergio)
Date: 17 Apr 2004 00:51:40 GMT
Subject: Re: OT Big dog problem. Serious help needed
JK said:
> Gee, let's see, why not take your dogs to a training school
> or ask your local police how they do it with their dogs?!
Ive already called the K9 officer in my town.
Left a message. He will get in touch with me.
> And I don't know do you think maybe slapping your dogs
> around so much and living with them, I mean all that
> attention you are giving them might just have something to
> do with why they like you and your family more than the
> neighbors?
I don't slap them around so much. I'll pop em, and all
when they do something wrong, and fuss at em. But I have
found something even better to make them stop what they
are doing.
A dustbuster. Just turn it on. Or show it to them. They
hate any type of vacum cleaner. It's worked about keeping
Jake out of the garbage. I sat in the kitchen a whole day,
and every time he went to the garbage can and went to stick
his head in, I turned it on. He stopped that.
Mainly I just pet them. They lay there by my chair and I
reach down and scratch them. They get up in the chair with
me. Tha'ts not easy when they are that big. But they still
think they are puppies. I do spoil them sometimes, but they
are my boys, and I love them.
> Hey, but this is the SSBB clearinghouse and you know the brain
> bucket is just outside and we do expect you to leave your brain
> there first before you post your problems here. Afterall, we all know
> that SSBB has all the answers you need for all your problems. Don't
> bother picking up your phone and calling around 'cause you got the
> good ole SSBB to help solve your problems.
You dumbass, I did call around and ask some advice from
other folks as well first. I posted it here because Miss
Shirley trains dogs, and there are a few folks here who
know more about it than I do.
Why do you try to turn every post you reply to into a noncon
humiliation scene with you topping? Could it be that this is
the only action your getting? LOL
> Time to fetch your brain. Come on boy you can do it. There you go.
I'd ask you to fetch yours, but I don't think you can
see something that small without a microscope.
--
Joe
Suck a lifesaver today, put a fireman in your mouth.
--------------
Newsgroups: soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm
From: M Shirley Chong <eit...@forest.pcpartner.net>
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004
Subject: Re: OT Big dog problem. Serious help needed
Katharine H. wrote:
> He does pretty well in his "walking gear" -- which is what the prong
> and leash are. When I put the prong collar and leash on, he still shows
> other aggression behaviors to new men in the house but does not lunge
> (because he doesn't tighten his leash on the prong.) I think he does
> pretty well with the leash behaviors (given he's got a run-of-the-mill
> owner-type).
What other sorts of behaviours does he show?
> He is mostly fine when we are off the property. He still must stay
> leashed, but the only people he shows aggression to are fly fisherman
> (something about the gear freaks him out) and other dogs. Other people
> he basically ignores. My biggest issue are other dog owners whose dogs
> are off leash and want to come up and say hello. My beast will play well
> with a dog who submits, but will fight with one who doesn't.
I have a solution for that one. When some clueless idjit
allows their dog to come up to mine, I call over sweetly
"don't worry, the vet doesn't think he's infectious anymore."
A carryover from my years showing horses when idjits leading
a horse down the aisle of a barn would let their horse poke
it's head into my horse's stall. I'd grab a bottle of Ring-Ex
(ringworm medication) and start spritzing ostentatiously. And
mention that my vet thought we had the infestation cleared up.
I never mentioned that the bottle was full of plain water. <G>
If I'm not in a nice mood, I just scare the bejeebers out
of the oncoming dog to send it away. When they say "but
he's friendly" I say "well, I'm not." My dogs never have
to defend themselves on leash. I think they sort of enjoy
seeing me chase other dogs away, there's a certain smugness
in the way they lean against me while looking at the other dog.
> Bottom line though... this dog is killing my sex life because I can't
> introduce men into the house and I've been in the mood for men the past
> several months. I don't know what the hell I'm doing, so I've called a
> local trainer and she's going to teach me how to more effectively deal
> with the beast before I figure it's time to enter a monastary :-) This dog
> is so docile with me... the contrast in behaviors is amazing.
Nooooo, not the monastary! Your scene reports are
incredibly good and would be a loss to pervkind.
Shirley
Newsgroups: soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm
From: M Shirley Chong <eit...@forest.pcpartner.net>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 02:38:40 -0500
Subject: Re: OT Big dog problem. Serious help needed
I'm piggybacking from Nicole Diver:
> Katharine H. writes: "This is my new tactic -- my 3 yr old rottie/lab mix
> has become *extremely* aggressive when new people, in particular men,
> come onto his territory. All people who are coming to my home for the
> first time are warned to expect aggression. They are then given the option
> of dealing with the dog or not. If the new guests are not "dog people" I
> will make the choice for them and the dog will stay in the backyard while
> I have people over. If they do want to make friends with the dog, then the
> dog goes on a leash and prong collar when they enter the house. When I
> let them in, he is snarling, lunging, etc. As soon as the treats come out
> it's
> a whole new ballgame. The pup sits and wags his tail and is ready to
> make friends. It generally takes time for him to warm up to new men."
Katherine, I have nothing against the use of prong collars
and recommend them when I feel it is appropriate. Just like
any tool, there are situations when a prong collar is the
best tool for a job and there situations where a prong
collar is the worst tool for a job.
Prong collars do tend to magnify a dog's aggressive tendencies.
If the dog is at all inclined to bite unreasonably, the prong
collar will often send it right over the edge.
<snip BD/SM and proceed directly to MURDER>
Re: homer bit me :(
"elegy" <el...@shatteringDOGPOOP.org> wrote in message
news:e71pt2lsdt1ssklla...@4ax.com...
long ago and far away, Mary Healey <mhhea...@iastate.edu> did say:
>elegy <el...@shatteringDOGPOOP.org> wrote in
>news:1m6nt2l1m8uiepjg0...@4ax.com:
>> i'm really disappointed in myself, because i wigged out on him for it,
>
> I'm not sure you should be. Maybe it's because I'm used to dogs that'll
> keep pushing barriers just to find the limits (if any), but the bottom
> line is that Homer did something completely unacceptable (for whatever
> good and justified reason) and discovered that, yes, there is an upper
> boundary beyond which his new human gets a bit testy. That's a good
> thing for a dog of any age to learn.
i worry that he reacted out of fear
and i gave him more reason to fear.
luce is a huge barrier-pusher. i've wigged out
on her a few times, too, and that i don't think
was necessarily a bad thing. but with this guy,
because he's kinda timid and i think kinda
fearful, i feel bad about.
>> i put him in his crate until i calmed down enough to not do
>> anything else stupid.
>
> Well, see, you learned something valuable. Homer learned
> something valuable. It's all good. Neither of you will need
> to repeat this particular lesson. I hope so, anyway.
i put a harness on him and he seems much more
comfortable with having that held. he simply
cannot be handle-less until he learns things like
come, stay, and to go in his crate.
--
And now, each night I count the stars.
And each night I get the same number. (Amiri Baraka)
http://shattering.org
x-no-archive: yes in the headers
-----------------------------------
Subject: i don't know what to do
From: elegy
Date: Monday, February 26, 2007
homer full-on attacked me tonight. multiple puncture wounds on my
hand, torn pants, dog that kept coming. he meant it tonight. he meant
to hurt me, not just to say "i don't like this".
i was trying to teach him to down using a lure and he totally and
completely wasn't getting it at all, so i was trying to physically
show him what i wanted. yeah. guess not.
i don't know what to do.
i have always said that i WILL NOT tolerate a dog who
bites, that i WILL NOT have a dog like that in my house.
it's easy to say when you're not faced with that, eh?
--
And now, each night I count the stars.
And each night I get the same number. (Amiri Baraka)
http://shattering.org
x-no-archive: yes in the headers
"diddy" <di...@nospam.diddy.net> wrote in message
news:Xns98E5C5F...@216.196.97.142...
in thread news:uj6cu2937ccs8thuf...@4ax.com: elegy
<el...@shatteringDOGPOOP.org> whittled the following words:
Subject: Re: brothers and sisters, i bid you beware
> of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
>
> i don't remember what the last update i posted on homer was
> and i'm too tired and flat-out drained to go back and look.
>
> he saw the vet yesterday and wigged out and tried to hurt him. i spent
> half an hour on the phone with a behaviorist who was recommended both
> by my trainer and whom we recommend at work. she felt his prognosis
> was pretty grim and that he's dangerous. most of what she does is work
> with aggressive dogs. the only thing he has on his side in this is
> that he's on the small side. everything else about his biting is
> seriously bad news.
>
> i worked a half day today and spent the rest of it spoiling him,
> snuggling him, feeding him cookies and mcdonalds french fries.
> everytime he moves his head quickly i jump, in case he's planning on
> biting me.
>
> tomorrow morning i'll hold him close and whisper in his ear how much i
> love him and how sorry i am that his life was what it was, and send
> him on to a better place.
>
> and then i'll cry some more.
>
> i feel like i've been crying for two solid days.
>
> --
> And now, each night I count the stars.
> And each night I get the same number. (Amiri Baraka)
> http://shattering.org
> x-no-archive: yes in the headers
You meant so well. I'm so sorry
-------------
"diddy" <none> wrote in message
news:Xns99E154DAFFD...@216.196.97.142...
A dog trainer must succeed. By nature, "Command" mentality
makes dog trainers a curmudgeonly lot. The deeper a dog
behavior digs in, the more willing a good trainer is to do
what it takes to uproot the undesired behavior.
This willingness to tackle what results in a battle of wills
is well pronounced in dog trainers. And if you think that's
something, try horse trainer lists, where the ante is upped X
1000 pounds and poor results can KILL you!
However, "nice little horsey " types are rarely successful
in horse training and rather self extinguishing bringing
about more moderation in established techniques.
BWEEEAAAAHAHAAA~!
"I would not allow that behavior AT ALL. Inconsistancies
are going to come back and bite you. I don't understand
how, you as a trainer, don't comprehend this.
Having a 100% reliable dog does not
EVER allow for mitigated circumstances.
A well-trained dog is a lifestyle.
You teach a dog to LEAVE it. A dog should be
taught to obey. I can call any of my dogs off
in full chase and ask them to drop anything
they are doing, and they will.
I think that should be expected of any breed, and
those who do not teach "leave it" fundementals
atre missing the boat"
Subject: Re: untrainable beagle! NEED HELP
"diddy" <di...@nospam.diddy.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9834C98...@216.196.97.142...
> in thread news:BO2Lg.4755$xV....@twister.nyroc.rr.com: "graham
> fandango!" <gmey...@maine.rr.com> whittled the following words:
> i have a ten year old beagle who i got from the animal
> shelter 5 years ago. its pretty clear he was abused in
> some form before he ended up in the shelter; when ever
> i reach for something, like the tv remote, too quickly he
> flinches. he gets scared when i sweep the kitchen floor
> and hides under the bed.
I have one too. I don't know her past history,or her age.
I use an antibark collar on her for my sanity. She's very
quiet, until I take it off. It doesn't train her not to bark,
because she barks when the collar is off. (beagles "Do
that")
There may not even be batteries in it, but she doesn't
bark... just in case.I'd supervise the first time you try
it, because I've heard of some dogs barking, and going
so spazzy over them that they died.
I really don't think you are going to train a dog that
age, especially a beagle, NOT to bark. I see your
options as being:
1) anti-bark collar
a)citronella
b)electronic
c)bark buster (your neighbors will
probably complain asmuch about
that as the howlng)
2) surgical debarking
3) placing the dog and accepting the consequences
4) moving
-----------------------
"diddy" <none> wrote in message
news:Xns9A74B7CCF88...@216.196.97.142...
c <barn...@gmail.com> spoke these words of wisdom in news:
5a8c97ed-06aa-
4211-b345-b...@s37g2000prg.googlegroups.com:
> The shock is minimal and nothing to worry about.
>
> There are 2 different types that frequent this group:
> the high falutin city folk that believe dogs should be
> treated like children, and the answer for any problem
> is "enroll them in class and spend $300 to teach them
> not to do it, and put them in time-out, but be sure
> their paw socks are on before stepping outside if under
> 50 degrees, etc."
First, I know of a dog with an antibark collar, who
protested so violently, he spazzed out and killed himself.
He was found dead in his kennel the next morning.
What dog training schools charge $300?
------------
"Cappy the beagle killed one of my ducklings today.
Tuck grabbed a leg, and swallowed a leg and thigh
before I could get him.
a month ago, he almost died from swallowing a
chicken wing. Now I'm sweating all over again.
I think he's never going to be allowed out ever
again without a muzzle! (he seems alright thus far.
------------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
IDIOT <{}: ~ ( >
Re: Tuck's SAR experience
"diddy" <d...@nospam.diddy.net> wrote in message
news:Xns982D2E8...@216.196.97.142...
I just came in from putting chickens to bed, and Tuck
had my computer keyboard on the floor, and there are
now two keys missing.
Ornery git
-------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
IDIOT <{}: ~ ( >
"diddy" <d...@nospam.diddy.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9839861...@216.196.97.142...
> in thread news:m1s5g2lsio01rsk9i...@4ax.com: Janet B
> <j...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> whittled the following words:
> Curious how many choose to crate a dog forever,
> whenever they leave the house and/or overnight,
> or how many choose to wean from household
> crate usage (usage being shutting the dog in the
> crate, not the dog choosing to hang out there) at
> some specific ages or maturity levels.
> Not for how long during a workday, but how
> long for a dog's lifespan?
I plan on crating Tuck whenever NOT supervised
(which isn't often.. he usually is with me) Until the
day that he quits tearing apart everything in sight
when I leave the room.
A dog proof room doesn't work.
He's figured out door knobs. He's figured out cupboards,
and he loves to tug open dresser drawers. He's not
interested in anything left out in the open.
He's into treasure hunting, figuring anything worth
secreting away is worth his effort discovering. He's
discovered the sock stash is in drawers.
Trash cans? --not interested.
Counter tops? --not interested
Counter tops -with food? --not interested
Dog food sitting on the floorin open bags? --not interested
razor blades from bathroom drawers? ... Very cool stuff!
Mom really gets bent too!
nope.. His crate is going to be occupied for
some time to come.
As for the beagle.. She's never been trustworthy.
She's getting senile and never will be trustworthy,
so a crate is in her future until she crosses the bridge.
Reka, no crate at no time, She lost her crate when she was
5 months old. Both Tuck, and reka hangout in crates by choice.
Reka dens in the bathtub usually. (kind of a crate) But she
likes the beagles vantage point, because the beagles crate
is on top of Tuck's. Right next to the window so she can see
out. Tuck prefers the compartment with a view as well.
I always have to vacate him (even though the crate on top is
too small for both elkhounds, it's their preferred lookout)
when I wantto stick in the beagle.
Reka sleeps under the bed at night or in the bathtub at night
if it's really hot. She sleeps in the bathtub by day when not
watching from the penthouse suite.
Tuck is not crated at night, and has chosen to sleep in
the closet. The beagle holds down the couch, night and day.
--------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
IDIOT <{}: ~ ( >
> "diddy" <di...@whoops.I.said.WHAT?> wrote in message
> news:JS76a.9623
>
>> Taya had eaten over 5 POUNDS of summer sausage!
>> I just had to laugh, because otherwise, I'd have cried.
>
> is taya an elkie? no point in crying over ingested summer sausage
> is what my mom used to say. did she get the runs?
Taya IS a 1/2 a cup a day for food elkie. When i told mom and dad
that she ate 5 POUNDS, we all marveled, my goodness! Where did she
put it all!
She went to the emergency vet clinic last night in a snowstorm
along 60 miles of ice slick roads, & blowing snow. The price
wasn't bad $120 but she had pancreatitis.
Crap, I should have induced vomiting when I realized it had happened.
Going from a regular diet of ounces in a day to 5 pounds
was bound to cause problems!
She seemed fine at the time, and I didn't think about it.
It could have been worse. There was NO fat in those summer sausages,
because they were homemade. No greasy texture, and much better than
any you buy. Because there was no fat, I had figured pancreatits
wasn't going to be a factor.
Wrong again.
-------------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
IDIOT <{}: ~ ( >
Hey shit for brains? Eatin kats won't cause peritonitis:
------------------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
IDIOT <{}: ~ ( >
Here's diddler trainin her neighbor's dog to stay HOWETA her garbage:
From: diddy (di...@diddy.net)
Subject: Re: Dog Shot, Neighbor Charged, Anchorage AK
I guess if I felt Danny was threatened, it's the way I would react.
There would be none left standing to deal with the threat just in
case.
If someone hurt him, I would not let borders or
continents stop me from pursuing justice.
Then again, I always feed Danny INSIDE. If someone is feeding
his dog outside, his own dog might not mean THAT much to him.
If he was feeding his dog outside though, many dogs are food
aggressive, and that could most certainly spark a dog aggression
thing. (and if the dog was penned quietly outside, what was it
doing in his yard?)
I shot a neighbors dog one night for chasing my horses and called
him to help me find it. I would do the same for threatening my dog.
My husband shot a dog that had been tearing up trash up and down
our road for years making an unbelievable mess. When we finally
killed the culprit, the whole road cheered. Animal control had never
been able in years to catch this critter. (we think it was feral it
was certainly unkempt enough to have been....and it had been shot
at by MANY of the neighbors, but it never frightened it off enough
to keep it from NOT tearing up the road the next trash day)
---------------
"I was in that position once when Becky was hit
by a car when my son left the yard gate open."
Fromdiddy <di...@nospam.diddy.net>
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 17:43:30 -0500
Subject: Re: Rural person needs help euthanizing his loving pet.
I think sedating her with benedryl until she was overly sleepy, and
injecting her with Epsom salts IV should cause such chemical
imbalance that it should do the trick.
I'm not sure how humane that would be, It would cause a heart attack.
Well placed gun shots are probably the most immediate, effective and
humane, but then, you said that was not acceptable. Carbon dioxide is
NOT humane.. it's slow and agonizing as the other gasses in car
exhaust burn out the lungs causing agonizing death.
Re: Question About Euthanasia - Not For Faint of Heart
"diddy" <di...@nospam.diddy.net> wrote
in message news:Xns995C9D2...@216.196.97.142...
Only if you are willing to be trolled. Using firearms
is not the most palatable way to put a dog down, but
sometimes it IS the most humane. For instance. I live
10 miles from a vet not an unreasonable distance for
routine care.
But one day, I was outside the fence in the company of
my dog, when the phone rang inside the house. I ran in
the door, and it was my dad. I said, "Dad, the dog did
not come in with me, I'll call you back"
Not aware that my dog had crossed the road to visit the
children getting off the school bus across the street,
I assumed her to be in her usual haunts, out in the back
pasture or barns.
I called her to come, and called her directly into the
path of a speeding car. She got hit directly on the
license plate and was thrown about 30 yards.
I knew exaclty what had happened, when I heard the
sickening thud, and her screams.
I rushed to her, and saw the blood streaming from her
ears and nose. her mangled little body irreparable. I
knew she was going to die. She quit screaming when I
went to her side. I went to move her, and she started
screaming even louder.
I knew moving her was only causing her greater agony.
She was in enough, and the outcome was not going to be
any better.
I decided to not put her through any more, and I left
her screaming, went in the house, got the handgun, and
returned. I gave her a tearful hug and apology. And I
did the hardest thing I've ever done in my whole life.
I took her pain, and made it my own. She immediately
slumped and went limp, and was silent. Quick. Taking
her to the vet was the poorer alternative.
in later years, I released a dog from the pound. She
was dumped for biting. Knowing that most of the time,
a dog that bites is the child's fault, I brought her
home to see if she was salvageable in a childless home.
She at least deserved an evaluation. She seemed fine,
then the following day, with no provocation, she lunged
for my throat. This was an unprovoked attack, and I knew
there was probably something physically wrong with the
dog (perhaps a brain tumor?) and regardless, she was a
HUGE liability risk, and I could never place her.
So I took her to the vet for euthanasia.
The vet kept sticking her for 15 minutes, and it was the
ugliest screaming death I ever witnessed.... until I had
my old 18 year old companion diagnosed with systemic
organ failure. Her old body wore out. I took her to the vet.
Apparently poor circulation caused her not to use the
euthanasia shot properly. The vet kept giving her one
shot after another, and she dies a slow agonizing death,
screaming, and looking at me in betrayal and dismay.
I wanted to grab her from the vet, and take her home,
and shoot her. It would have been over faster.
Then I took Danny in for Euthanasia. The best dog I've
ever had. The vet stuck him, and he went down HARD,
screaming.
He screamed for about 10 minutes.
If a vet was going to get a dog right, this one he HAD
to, and he didn't. I was furious. I'm forever sorry I
took him to the vet, but the violence of shooting him
was just unnacceptable to me.
These are THREE different vets.
I've witnessed hundreds of vet euthanasias that went
uneventfully. But those THREE failures stick forever
in my mind. Two on dogs very near and dear to me.
If I could accept the violence and had the fortitude
to do the job myself, those dogs would have never
needlessly suffered. A bullet properly placed is quick
and final.
Perhaps the OP has had not so good experiences, and
just wants to be sure the job is done right. I don't
necessarily consider them a troll (however I strongly
suspect that they are, and if they have to ask what
caliber to use, they probably are not a good enough
shot that they should attempt this)
------------------
Date: December 29, 2006 5:47 AM
Subject: Re: Dog chewing up floors
in thread news:aad9p2hg0aei5nijq...@4ax.com:
Paula <mmmtobler...@earthlink.ent> whittled the following
words:
> I, for one, am glad that the Puppy Wizard comes across
> as a complete loon given what his advice is since it
> makes it less likely that people will take it instead
> of the advice of someone else I think gives better advice.
For the record, The Puppy wizard over-rates himself. But
"his" (tm) methods are pretty much tried and true methods
that trainers have used and some still use today.
There are better methods out there now. But the ones posted
in his manual (now that he has removed the advice to SPIKE
a dog's temperature to dangerous levels) are sound. they work..
no matter what we think of the puppy-wizard and his packaging...
"his methods" <cough> are just as valid as anyone else's
"His methods" can stand some updating, and he definitely
needs to look at some repackaging.
Hopefully others add a slicker delivery to grab attention,
but truthfully, when you look at the cat fights that go on
here, and stand back and watch in perspective, it's rather
hard to determine the sane ones from the lunatics.
In fact, an awful lot of people here come off looking
rather tainted. A person needs to have a good filtering
device to sort out the noise.
TPW just has a problem that's too painfully obvious.
--------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
BWEEEAAAHAHAAAA~!~!~!
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
of a English teacher, you miserable stinkin rotten lyin
animal murderin punk thug coward active accute chronic
CASE and PROFESSIONAL dog trainin FRAUD, SCAM
ARTIST, BACKYARD PUPPY-MILLER, and SPECIAL
EDUCATION R.E.A.D. program ASSISTANT TEACHER /
DOG TRAINER,
"diddy" <none> wrote in message
news:Xns9AD5C2BE7FA...@216.196.97.142...
> elegy <el...@DOGPOOPshattering.org> spoke these
> words of wisdom in
> news:obs774htqkh2gk357...@4ax.com:
>
>> On Tue, 08 Jul 2008 14:33:59 -0500, diddy <none> wrote:
>>
>>>The answer is, they are ignorant a GOOD breeder is
>>> putting NOTHING into the shelters, and breeding
>>> animals that have a lifetime of healthy animals.
>>
>> amen.
>>
>> and kudos to you for doing all the health testing on tuck.
>> i am always glad to see good breeders with good dogs
>> who are willing to PROVE it.
>
> Thanks. Seems the troll shut up, so apparently she saw her
> folly, ate crow, and went back to the cat groups to eat crow.
That so, diddler? Seems the "TROLL" turned you over to the
EXXXPERT hands of Human And Animal Behavior Forensic
Sciences Research Laboratory for a good SCHTUPPIN <{}: ~ ) >
> Man are those cat people, uhmm "catty"
That so, diddler? Here's you being "catty" AND "doggy":
--------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
HOWE COME would diddler set her INFORMATIVE posts to
EXXXPIRE in six days? Is she EMBARRASSED by her own
words, the lyin animal murderin punk thug coward mental case
fraud an SCAM ARTIST, like montana, professora melanie
chang, cindy title moore of k9web.com, matty a.k.a. Rocky and
not so happy, not so handsome, not so gentle jackass, not even
jack morrison, a.k.a. BIG DADDY a.k.a. DOGMAN a.k.a.
tommy sorenson of sorenson's Retriever PUPPY MILL and
SHOCK COLLAR SALES??
Are they EMBARRASSED by their own words, the lyin animal
murderin punk thug coward mental cases frauds an SCAM ARTISTS?
matty aka Rocky EXXXPLAINS HOWE COME:
"Rocky" <2d...@rocky-dog.com> wrote
For reasons I'll only explain privately, I've gone no
archive, and it's a shame. Once in a while, while
looking for something else, I'll run into an old post
of mine. What an idiotic response!
Whoops.
BWEEEAAAHAHAAAHAAHAAA!~!~!
"diddy" <none> wrote in message
BWEEEAAAAHAHAAA~!
BWEEEAAAHAHAAAA~!~!~!
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
Oh, you mean, LIKE THIS?:
------------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
IDIOT <{}: ~ ( >
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
IDIOT <{}: ~ ( >
--------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
IDIOT <{}: ~ ( >
Wrong again.
-------------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
IDIOT <{}: ~ ( >
Oh, you mean, LIKE THIS:
"diddy" <di...@nospam.diddy.net> wrote in message
News:Xns993C52BAC299Bda...@216.196.97.142...
My dogs aren't into beer that much. But they sure love Horse poop!
-----------------------
LIKE THIS:
From: diddy <none>
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 12:00:29 -0600
Local: Sun, Nov 11 2007 1:00 pm
Subject: And then there were......
I was prepared a few hours ago to post there were now
only two dogs. But after a trip to the Dayton Emergency
clinic, we are now only $200 poorer and brought home a
very torb'ed up beagle.
We estimate the beagle to be about 14.
This morning she had severe abdominal distress. Pacing,
whining, and crippling spasm, accompanied with the most
pitiful moans and groans you ever heard.
My husband said, if it's serious (LOOK HERE.. ANY PAIN OF
THAT MAGNITUDE IS SERIOUS!) we weren't going to fix it,
we would simply put her down. But she got out yesterday, and
indulged in a buffet of horse meadow muffins.
She may be impacted, and it might pass.
I told him she's in pain, and transient or not, we
have to do something about the pain while we
wait to see if the issue resolves or not.
So the vet said, if you aren't fixing it. Let's juice her
up on Torbugesic, healthy doses of antibiotics, with reglan
to move things along. We just treated everything. So if
there is improvement, we will assume fixable. If not.. I
will write that "And then there were two" post.
to be continued.....
----------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
IDIOT <{}: ~ ( >
Eatin arsenic won't cause peritonitis:
Re: Just scheduled blood test--Zipper too
"diddy" <di...@nospam.diddy.net> wrote in message
news:Xns99056C3...@216.196.97.142... in thread
news:IeqdnZChtN4RX5jb...@ptd.net: "MauiJNP"
> <jmh1...@ptd.net> whittled the following words:
> in thread news:IeqdnZChtN4RX5jb...@ptd.net: "MauiJNP"
> jmh1...@ptd.net> whittled the following words:
> Seems to me, that should be a standard question for
> any pet having any problems at this time.
I took Tuck in last Wednesday to the vets because two weeks
before, he had chewed some old treated lumber. Knowing that
treated lumber used to be treated with Arsenic, and he ate a
substantial amount, I took him into the emergency clinic and
they treated him for arsenic poisoning.
A week later, he still had a raw stomach, esophagus and stomach
(revealed by endoscopy). He was treated with buffers, and antibiotics
to prevent infection of the inflamed tissues. Wednesday, still not
right, but improving, I took him back in for a recheck.
The first thing the vet did, was ask what foods I was feeding.
Which I understood why, but felt considering his current history,
was rather a unnecessary question. I felt we pretty much knew
what was going on with him.
Since he was greatly improved, we decided not to do another
endoscopy and just watch him. He's 100% back to normal.
Hope Cali is too.
------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
IDIOT <{}: ~ ( >
Eating carpet strings won't cause peritonitis:
----------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
IDIOT <{}: ~ ( >
---------------
Subject: Re: teaching dogs "jobs"
(They were taught NEVER EVER to step on a road.... No foot
EVER touches the road!) Danny lost a tracking test once,
because the test crossed a seldom used gravel road. When he
reached the road, a car just happened to go by. He refused to
cross the road, and when I took him by the collar and nudged
him, I was Disqualified for aiding the dog.
Danny simply will NOT cross a road..
when he was intact, not EVEN for a bitch in season.
Now you have a dog that...
WHOOOOPS!
Whoops, Danny And Taya run away from
unsecured yard and imbecile owner BUT
CAREFULLY AVOID CROSSIN A ROAD.
Will they survive life out in the wilderness
out amongst diddler's coyote traps?
Will they get mistaken for coyotes and sold
to the highest bidder at the fur auction?
Or will they live again to do a help dummy diddy
do a demonstration on safe and responsible pet
ownership in the kitchen with the vet's office kitten?
Stay tuned, fans...
From: Kathy Levee (kle...@zoo.uvm.edu)
> Subject: Off Topic --MISSING DOGS
> Date: 1999/04/14
>
> I realize this has absolutely nothing to do with
> Disney. Parks, but since those of us on this
> newsgroup are from all over the country, I thought
> you would understand this one time intrusion. We
> are desperate to find these dogs....Please, if you
> have any information, contact the e-mail address
> at the bottom of the note. Thank you for your
> understanding.........
>
> Karyl Parks' (aka diddler) dog Danny - Ch. Alpha's
> Decorum (I think that is his correct registered name) is
> missing . For those that have never met Danny -
> he is very special. Both trained for Search and
> Rescue
You'd think the dog could find his
own way back to his HOWES???
> as well as service dog trained, CDX, etc.
But IT can't find ITS way back to his own HOWES?
> He does all the things that service dogs do
Like run HOWET on his people and not return?
> from opening doors, turning on lights, getting
> clothes and shoes.
You FORGOT MURDERIN the vet's office kitty kat
and escaping and destructively chewing a rug and
gettin locked in a box in an HOWEtbuilding to muffle
his CRYING till he was SHITTIN BLOOD and went in
for intestinal obstruction.
> He is a marvel.
Naaah. You want a MARVEL? Marvel at that
STUPID KAT that PAINICKED when diddler
snared IT in her leg hold STRANGLE / CHOKE
choke trap. She'd have BLUDGEONED IT had
IT not been wearin a collar. Perhaps she was
lookin for a REWARD, bein a SUBSISTANCE
hunter and all.
> He is nine years old but does not
> show his age - he is about 60 pounds 22 1/2
> inches, dark face. By tomorrow I will have a
> picture available.
>
> Monday night he was put out to do his business
> along with Taya another elkie. At 10:00pm - both
> he and Taya were gone from Karyl's yard.
>
> She heard nothing and the gate was open but
> opened inward. Danny was neutered in the last
> year so is not of any use to anyone for breeding.
>
> Karyl has handed out over 1,200 flyers today -
> gone to the schools where Danny was well
> known - he did demonstrations, talked to
> neighbors and combed the neighborhood.
>
> She lives in farm
> country outside Greenville, Ohio.
>
> Danny is a tall elkie - very handsome -
> microchipped. I am looking for a picture I took
> when he visited here two years ago. He was not
> wearing a collar when lost. Karyl will talk to
> postal workers, garbage truck drivers, county
> road crews, meter readers, tomorrow - has
> already contacted law enforcement and shelters.
>
> Please for anyone in the area or who can cross
> post this to other lists do it. This dog is Karyl's
> life and she can not imagine life without him.
>
> Taya - also an elkhound her parents dog - spayed
> female five years old. Small size - I think only
> about 18 inches. They could be together or
> separate - Taya did have a collar on. Do not
> know if she is microchipped.
>
> Karyl's email is kpa...@bright.net
>
> Thank you for your understanding......we're
> posting this to every list we are involved with
> and pray for their safe return.
Ummm, better RETHINK THAT. Your PAL diddler
is a Satanist or somethin weird like that.
> Kathy
>
> ==============================-===
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAA~!~!~!
You call tying the dog to a wall training, diddler, like
HOWE you trained your fence to train your dog?
diddy wrote:
"I admit our system fails occasionally"
> We have a beagle. Before we got our last one, we knew
> what to expect and spent a year re-enforcing the fence.
"I admit our system fails occasionally"
> What we did.
"I admit our system fails occasionally"
> Double fencing, hardware cloth lined on the inside. Wood ties
> under gates. A chicken wire apron extending out into the yard
> 12 inches. (hog ringed to the upright fencing). We chose chicken
> wire because it was flexible and ground conforming. grass grows
> right over it, making it invisible and easy to mow over. It's tacked
> down by tent stakes every 10 inches. (this is our most considerable
> investment)
"I admit our system fails occasionally"
> The problems with it is that it eventually disintegrates, rusts, pulls
> apart and need repair a lot. We placed tile blocks over the top, because
> the tent stakes stick up, and sometimes get hit by the lawnmower.
"I admit our system fails occasionally"
> Overall, it's a pretty decent system and works MOST of the time.
"I admit our system fails occasionally"
> The beagle is persistent, and tends to work the inner fencing, that's
> flimsy down, or tear it, making exit holes. We recently cut down a
> couple yard trees that broke down sections of the fence and they need
> re-enforcement.
"I admit our system fails occasionally"
> When the weather breaks, a whole new fence is in order,
> but the system works MOST of the time.
"I admit our system fails occasionally"
> We did install an underground perimeter E-fence at the fence line,
> and found a single strand 12 inch high electric cattle fence around
> the perimeter was just as effective, cheaper, less bothersome (no
> need to wear heavy e-collars.. especially that mess up coats), but
> both needed occassional maintenence.
"I admit our system fails occassionally"
> What we did.
"I admit our system fails occassionally"
> I admit our system fails occassionally, especially when snow drifts are
> over the top of the fences and erase any identifiable fenceline.
"I admit our system fails occassionally"
> We installed (BEFORE getting the beagle) a 100 foot
> trolly line that crosses the yard.
"I admit our system fails occassionally"
> This is a safe, effective restraint system that has always
> worked when immediate repairs or extra security is desired.
> If I go away and leave the beagle outside. He goes to the trolly line,
> whether the containment system is currently working or not.
"I admit our system fails occassionally"
> It's great for emergency situations, and the $17 last resort system gets
> used for the beagle far more than I ever expected. It still allows
> reasonable exercise range of area and mobility. The elkhounds and the
> beagle still play avidly, and it's the cheapest piece of mind security
> ever.
"I admit our system fails occassionally"
> A trolly tether system is the best for temporary containment while
> discovering where the leak is. In the snow, it's easy to discover the
> leak. In the summer, it's more difficult.
"I admit our system fails occassionally"
> I do not like, or use our current underground collar system
"I admit our system fails occassionally"
BWEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAA!!!
BWEEEEAAAHAHAHAAAA~!~!~!
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
BWEEEEAAAHAAAHAAAAHAAAA~!~!~!
-----------------------
c <barney...@gmail.com> spoke these words of wisdom in news:
5a8c97ed-06aa-
4211-b345-b49062eff...@s37g2000prg.googlegroups.com:
> The shock is minimal and nothing to worry about.
> There are 2 different types that frequent this group:
> the high falutin city folk that believe dogs should be
> treated like children, and the answer for any problem
> is "enroll them in class and spend $300 to teach them
> not to do it, and put them in time-out, but be sure
> their paw socks are on before stepping outside if under
> 50 degrees, etc."
First, I know of a dog with an antibark collar, who
protested so violently, he spazzed out and killed himself.
He was found dead in his kennel the next morning.
What dog training schools charge $300?
------------
OR you could just MURDER them yourself.
LIKE THIS:
From: diddy <none>
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 07:59:17 -0600
Subject: Re: The kind of mess uneducated breeders are making
No idea what he is. He's supposed to be part chow, but he
looks more aussie/duck tolling retriever to me than anything
with a pomeranian tail.
His facial animations are hilarious, you can see the wheels
turning, and he's very engaging. The down side is, a kid from
next door came over and pulled his ears, and he bit the kid on
the face resulting in a $300,000 plastic surgery.
I have a zero tolerance for dog bites, and would normally
put a dog that did that down, but this dog was the victim
here.
----------------
90% of those "SICK" dogs are sufferin from iatrogenic
DIS-EASES, like your own GENETIC DEFECTIVE
backyard bred ElkHOWENDS, diddler.
LIKE THIS:
"Tuck is and has been fighting Pano and HOD since
5 days AFTER his distemper shot. (I had it done at
humane society vaccine clinic) My vet recommends the
distemper shot being given separately. yes,it takes
another trip to the vet.
The distemper shot is well known forcausing vaccine
reactions and even auto-immune response. (well thats
what vaccines DO..is kickin the auto-immune system)
But over loading an immune system can cause unwanted
reactions. In Tuck,it took the form of HOD/PANO.
There has to be some genetic predisposition to auto-immune
response as well. Tuck's Daddy had bad food allergies. (an
auto-immune response) and that should have alerted me toa
predisposition.
But I didn't realize the distemper shot would set off a
change of reactions that will last for one to two years.
My vet says, NEXT year, to be sure to re-vaccinate him with
the same distemper company that manufactured the distemper
shot that he recieved that caused the problem. Make sure he
recieves the distemper shot SEPARATELY from the rest.
Part of his treatment protocal is toFeed him large breed
puppy food (even though he is not a large breed dog) to
slow his growth.
So yes. in answer to your question, I have experienced a
reaction to the distemper shot. Or my dog has.. It's not
the same reaction as you are describing. But yes, I have."
---------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA!!
> And sooner or later, they ALWAYS die!
INDEEDY. But not always at the vet, like when you
SHOOT your own DEAD DOG in the street after lettin
IT get RUN DHOWEN by an errant SCHOOL BUS.
LIKE THIS:
diddler wrote:
"I was in that position once when Becky was hit
by a car when my son left the yard gate open."
Fromdiddy <di...@nospam.diddy.net>
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 17:43:30 -0500
Subject: Re: Rural person needs help euthanizing his loving pet.
I think sedating her with benedryl until she was overly sleepy, and
injecting her with Epsom salts IV should cause such chemical
imbalance that it should do the trick.
I'm not sure how humane that would be, It would cause a heart attack.
Well placed gun shots are probably the most immediate, effective and
humane, but then, you said that was not acceptable. Carbon dioxide is
NOT humane.. it's slow and agonizing as the other gasses in car
exhaust burn out the lungs causing agonizing death.
----------------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
diddler wrote:
"I released a dog from the pound. She was dumped for biting.
Knowing that most of the time, a dog that bites is the child's
fault, I brought her home to see if she was salvageable in a
childless home.
She at least deserved an evaluation. She seemed fine,
then the following day, with no provocation, she lunged
for my throat. This was an unprovoked attack, and I knew
there was probably something physically wrong with the
dog (perhaps a brain tumor?) and regardless, she was a
HUGE liability risk, and I could never place her.
So I took her to the vet for euthanasia.
The vet kept sticking her for 15 minutes, and it was the
ugliest screaming death I ever witnessed.... until I had
my old 18 year old companion diagnosed with systemic
organ failure. Her old body wore out. I took her to the vet.
Apparently poor circulation caused her not to use the
euthanasia shot properly. The vet kept giving her one
shot after another, and she dies a slow agonizing death,
screaming, and looking at me in betrayal and dismay.
I wanted to grab her from the vet, and take her home,
and shoot her. It would have been over faster," DIDDLER,
lyin animal murderin COWARD and MENTAL CASE.
SEE?
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
-mhd
>In article <t7d774pog8sqsgc4c...@4ax.com>,
> -mhd <not_...@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> It's a given that once they have their breeder pet they *won't* go to a
>> shelter and save a
>> life.
>
>What data is that?
>
>First, you're assuming that someone who got a purebred cat intends to
>breed it. There is not data to support that assumption.
No I'm not assuming anything. Read that as *from* a breeder not *for* breeding.
>
>Second, why wouldn't someone have a purebred animal and a
>shelter/rescue/mixed breed animal? Why is that a "given"?
Yeah right, what was I thinking.
>FTR - I currently have 1 cat (shelter mixed breed), 3 dogs - 1 shelter
>mixed breed, 1 shelter/breed rescue poorly bred (pet shop) purebred, 1
>purebred puppy (OMG - she's intact - run for the hills!). Apparently
>your "given" isn't so given.
And your ridiculous sized sample is typical?
Too bad you weren't better bred, you'd have more brains and don't claim that you do -
where is the data for that?
-mhd
Rocky
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> You're so full of shit.
Cool, yet another cross-posting asshat with an agenda.
Gandalf
>
>"dontcountstars" <no...@000.com> wrote in message
>news:470395_778fc3252a3d...@0000.com...
>> Thankyou for your misjudged replies,
>
>I'd say my replies were right on target. You welcome.
>
>
>> however I'm doing nothing wrong.
>
>
>As long as you're breeding cats while cats are dying in shelters because
>there aren't enough homes- you can bet your "irresponsible,
>morally bankrupt" ass you're doing something wrong.
>
>
><snip- not interested your opinion of your cats' credentials>
>
>I am only interested
>> in finding top quality homes for any kittens I breed,
>
>...and every top quality home you find for your intentionally bred cats, is
>one home less for a cat languishing in a shelter where she'll be eventually
>killed.
>
>
>
>and making sure
>> I do my part to only breed from the best possible cats,
>
>
>If you want to do your part for the feline species- don't breed any more
>cats.
>
>so as to
>> further the progression of the breed.
>
>
>"Progression of the breed"... sounds like a phrase straight out of Mein
>Kampf. The cats don't need you to further the progression of the species.
>They were doing just fine before you circle-jerking 50-cent geneticists
>started "improving" them. Your kind really "improved" the Himalayans... and
>the Persians... and the Siamese, didn't you? You bred genetic defects into
>those breeds that never before exisited in nature.
>
>If you really want to further the progression of the breed-- leeeaaavvveee
>them the fuck alone.
>
>
>>
>> Just so you know, I also am well aware of the problem with
>> overpopulation,
>
>
>You are? And you *still* want to breed more cats??? Whar are you, a moron or
>just a "irresponsible, morally bankrupt person"?
>
>
>
>
> I do a lot of volutary work at the local animal
>> sanctuary
>
>...between breeding more cats? What do you there? Try to make room for the
>cats whose homes were displaced by your kittens?
>
>
> >(I'm a qualified veterinary nurse)
>
>
>Credentials don't guarantee credibility- one can exist without the other.
>You're a shining example! You're a "qualified veterinary nurse" and you have
>to come to a newsgroup to ask a stupid question? How did you get your
>credentials? From a matchbook cover?
>
>
> Do you do anything to
>> help, other than harrass people online?
>
>Yeah, I do- but I'm not doing it right now because I'm harrassing you for
>contributing to the cat overpopulation problem.
>
>>
>> Pedigree breedings are not to blame for overpopulation and abandoned
>> animals,
>
>Naaa, you just contribute to the overpopulation problem. You're just like a
>fool who pours gas on a fire and doesn't take responsibility for the damage
>because he didn't start the fire.
>
>
>
>and without the continuation of the many hundreds of year old
>> pedigree lines, these breeds would completely die out and become
>> extinct, which would be a terrible loss for mankind.
>
>
>Half of those breeds didn't exist in nature to begin with, - and the other
>half have genetic defects from circle-jerking, 50-cent geneticists like you
>trying to "improve" the breeds.
>
>
>
>>
>> So really, I resent your assumption that I am an irresponsible,
>> morally bankrupt person,
>
>
>I'm glad to hear it! After reading your reply, I see my assumption was
>correct!
>
>
>and feel that perhaps you should not jump to
>> conclusions next time,
>
>Why not? My conclusions were correct.
>
>
>and also work on a better way to get your
>> message across,
>
>
>I *have* a better way. But if you don't like this way, you damn sure
>wouldn't like my "better way"..
>
>
>other than being inappropriately rude when someone
>> asks an innocent question.
>
>Its impossible to be "inappropriately rude" to a breeder- I could never be
>rude enough to a breeder-- and I'm really good at being rude!
>
>The only good thing about breeders is no matter what I say or do to them- I
>*never* feel bad about it- I feel the same way about animal abusers.
>
Yay Phil! You are my kind of guy!
I used to volunteer for a small, no kill shelter in my city.
I had to give it up for health reasons, but I have never forgotten the
experience.
There are SO MANY cats that need homes. Kittens are relatively easy to
find homes for, but the shelter I worked at 'specialized' in 'stray'
cats only.
So we mostly had adult cats looking for homes. And some of them weren't
young, or pretty, either.
I couldn't have said it as well as you already have: breeding cats is
just WRONG, for ALL of the reasons you have stated so very, very well.
Gandalf <---Long time lurker. Full time cat lover. Firmly believes that
rescues make the best pets. BTW: My two RB moggies lived to 16 and 18
years, with almost no health problems. My 'current' cat came from a
shelter. I'm her third (and last) human, too.
(null)
>"cybercat" <cyber...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>
>> You're so full of shit. Your allergies "cannot be controlled" with
>mere hecatombs to our alien overlords. An aluminum toque repells
>> medication simply because it suits your pro-breeding agenda.
>>
>> You see animals as objects with which you imagine you may elevate
>conjugate dessert plate pieces of eight. An apparatus for your
>> your social status. You should not even bother to try, because
>resistance is futile. But hey nonny nonny I see that you see that
>> everyone can *see* what you are. Pathetic.
>I am. It's true and that's not a lie.
A tween! A tween! Oh, I've been in tween withdrawal for so long.
And such a worthy subject too. Good job!
Dianne
Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory
miserable stinkin lyin animal murderin punk thug
coward active accute chronic life long incurable
kibologist and SHELTER / RESCUE dog lover
FRAUD an SCAM ARTIST and False Christian,
"Terri" <Te...@micron.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9AD5D8E1...@130.133.1.18...
> Rocky <3d...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in
> news:Fri9AD5D10D8D94Bau...@rocky-dog.com:
>
>> "cybercat" <cyber...@yahoo.com> said in
>> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>>
>>> You're so full of shit.
>>
>> Cool, yet another cross-posting asshat with an agenda.
>>
> I was just thinking the same thing.
INDEED?
> What do these immature mewling,clay-brained giglets
> hope to accomplish?
We're IDENTIFYING EXXXPOSING and DISCREDITING
the pathetic miserable stinkin rotten lyin animal murderin punk
thug coward active acute chronic life long incurable malignant
maliciHOWES MENTAL CASES like yourself, meat terri.
> " Yooo-hooo! Oh YOOSNET! Janet said a bad word"!
janet hurts intimidates an murders innocent defenseless dumb
critters JUST LIKE HOWE YOU DO, meat terri <{}: ~ ( >
> And WTF is a "moggie"?
You're a teacher? HOWE COME you don't just LOOK IT UP?
Subject: Mushing Teacher
"Terri" <Te...@micron.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9A56B2C5...@130.133.1.18...
>
> Not a term I'd have ever thought I'd use personally,
You mean, on accHOWENTA you know NUTHIN abHOWET
teaching? OR on accHOWENTA you know NUTHIN abHOWET
mushing OR dogs, for that matter?
> but that's exactlywhat I got to do today.
INDEED? Pehaps you been teachin the wrong STUFF?
> Today I taught a 6th grade class currently studying both the Iditirod
The Idiotarod is CRUEL to dogs, meat terri <{}: ~ ( >
> as well as reading the book " Woodsong" by Gary Paulsen.
> While they're doing this, they're completing detailed maps
> about Alaska as well as studying the Iditirod trail.
>
> I held open discussion afterwards and they
> came up with some pretty amazing input.
Did the kiddies learn that mushers KICK and BEAT their
dogs with whips and shock and strangle them for discipline?
LIKE THIS:Subject: Re: Musher dog beater, Ramy Brooks
(www.ramybrooks.com)
Dog beatings and whippings are common. During the 2007 Iditarod,
eyewitnesses reported that musher Ramy Brooks kicked, punched and
beat his dogs with a ski pole and a chain. Jim Welch says in his book
Speed Mushing Manual, "Nagging a dog team is cruel and ineffective...
A training device such as a whip is not cruel at all but is effective."
"It is a common training device in use among dog mushers..."
--------------------
Did the kiddies learn that runnin dogs in races like that causes
them to BLEED from both their MHOWETHS and a$$HOWELS,
meat terri?
> In Gary's book he mentions at first he fed his dogs kibble.
You mean he didn't know that commercial dog food is GARBAGE?
> * He says the corn in the kibble
You think dogs native to Alaska eat CORN?
> breaks down into sharp point which can cut the intestines
CITES PLEASE, meat terri?
> which is what I gathered is the reason Storm
> was bleeding rectally on the trail.
THAT'S INSANE, meat terri. The dogs BLEED on accHOWENTA
they CAN'T STOP to SHIT and have to do it on the run. They come
in BLEEDIN from BOTH ENDS <{}: ~ ( >
> ( We only read two chapters today.)
Will there be a chapter on mushers GETTIN BUSTED for cruelty?
LIKE THIS?:
HOWEDY malinda you pathetic miserable stinkin pathological
lyin dog abusing punk thug coward active acute chronic long term
incurable mental case,
"Melinda Shore" <sh...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:etr16h $ms...@panix2.panix.com...
> In article <14618-460094F2-...@storefull-3253.bay.webtv.net>,
> Judith Althouse <judyaltho...@webtv.net> wrote:
>> Thanks for posting this information.
> *Thanks?* The guy is a shithead
The ***"SHITHEAD"*** didn't BEAT his dog, malinda.
> who has no participation here beyond showing
> up here every March trying to stir up anti-Iditarod
> sentiment.
You mean he posts every year when the IDIOTarod injury /
death figures and incidents of cruelty are published <{): ~ ( >
> If you want to talk about what happened
The "NON SHIT HEAD" DOG ABUSER BEAT
HIS DOG an got CAUGHT, malinda <{}: ~ ( >
> > that's probably a good thing
> Then HOWE COME do you DEFEND it?
> > but do it in a new thread.
> You mean where the ORIGINAL TEXT won't be noticed, malinda?
> You got a very long posted case history of hurtin
> intimidatin an murderin innocent defenseless dumb
> critters an LYIN abHOWET it.
---------------------------
> *Um...quite frankly, this is the first time I've ever heard of this
> before.
INDEED?
Perhaps you should stick to teachin sumpthin you KNOW?
THAT'S HOWE COME schools got a curriculum, eh, meat terri <{}: ~ ) >
> Maybe someone might care to expand on this a bit?
O.K., meat terri <{}: ~ ) >
The MUSHERS are nuthin more than dog abusin puppymillers
who PROFIT off of their competitions and PUPPY SALES, like
handsome gentleman jack morrison the anonymHOWES tommy
sorenson of sorensons's Retriever PUPPY MILL.
They breed HUNDREDS of puppys to get their team of a dozen:
From: sh...@panix.com (Melinda Shore)
Date: 9 Nov 2007 15:18:13 -0500
Subject: Re: Photo's, Virginia Puppy Mill Pups
article <U83Zi.963$2I3....@bignews2.bellsouth.net>,
tiny dancer <tinydancer...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> As a breeder? Way too many dogs to care for properly,
> way too much over-breeding, hence puppy mill.
One of the fastest, most successful working sleddog kennels
has several hundred dogs, with between 60-90 puppies every
year.
-----------------
Subject: Mojo's Last Day- a year later
> Terri <Te...@micron.net> wrote in news:5cumt9F2ikd9sU1
> @mid.individual.net:
>
> The gift of going without pain was
> ours to give him and we failed him.
Well THAT'S a LOAD OF HOT DRY CRAPOLA <{}: ~ ( >
Mojo lived his entire BRIEF life (Mojo 2/26/1996-6/21/2006)
in STARK RAVIN TERROR, thanks to meat terri's IDIOCY
and ABUSE:
Subject: Mojo and T-Storms, FOAD Howeless.
From: dogsnus <dogs...@micron.net>
Date: 2000/05/09
"Mojo is a humongeous GSD that is terrified of
his own shadow! A great big intimadating bark,
but a woosy at heart! BG! Today, and all this week,
we are seeing major T-storms, which Mojo is deathly
afraid of. I raced home early, and found a shed door
torn down, no front screens left, and a terrifed dog
trapped behind a barrier intended to keep them out
of the shed's water storage for god only knows how
long.. (Mojo drank half a bucket of water when I let
him in).
He was trapped in that area, trying to find some refuge,
and he tore up a lot of insulation around the tank to try
and find a safe spot. I came home and didn't see him in
the yard, and didn't see a torn down fence, so I raced
inside and out the front door and ran out to the shed door
first to see if he was quaking in there.
There he was, trapped behind a 4 foot barrier with not
enough room behind him to launch himself over it to
come to me.(That body is a large 108# or so).
I tore open the wire(s) and out he came to stick like glue
to me for about 2 hours. I've replaced the shed door; had
to use the Kubota to prop it up and probably have to re-
seed the lawn now, ordered a big doggie door, and have
replaced the window and bought screens to replace this
weekend.
All told so far, it's cost us @ 800 to repair the damage. In
the interim, I think I'll be missing work again doggie sitting
until we get a safety net for poor ol' Mojo.
My co-workers still_ think I'm nuts to take vacation days
for a *dog", but hey, what do they know about dog-human
bonding? Mojo lost a few hairs going over the wire, but
no damage was found, and I ran my hands over him like
a fine tuned massage therapist! Hey, when Mojo is in a
hurry to escape *bad noises*, he doesn't much care about
the size of the opening. He's COMIN through! Which
explains the dog hair left on the fence in the shed! Cheers,"
From: "Jerry Howe" <j...@cfl.rr.com>
Date: 2000/05/10
Subject: Re: Mojo and T-Storms, FOAD Howeless.
Hello dogsnuthin,
Dogs who are fearful are usually made that way
because they lack confidence in their ''trainer.''
Good LUCK. As you know, I don't put my trust in luck,
it's abundant, but RISKY... I rely on the INFORMATION
in the Wits' End Dog Training Method manual available
for FREE (don't THAT just frost your behind???) at
http://www.doggydoright.com
Your BEST FRIEND, Jerry. Bye! j;~}
Fear of thunder can be EXXXTINGUISHED
NEARLY INSTANTLY if you simply DO
EVERY THING EXXXACTLY PRECISELY
OPPOSITE of HOWE you pathetic miserable
stinkin lyin animal murderin punk thug coward
ignorameHOWESES do it.
LIKE THIS:
Chris Williams writes:
"The FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method manual
I do find valuable. Much of it I recognize as what
I've always done without thinking of it as "training".
New stuff, I've used. His anchoring technique erased
the last of Mac's fireworks trauma,"
-----------
AND LIKE THIS:
"Dan Moore" <mooret...@worldnet.att.net>
wrote in message
news:fS2Lc.114567$OB3....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.
Tracy,
What worked for me, in just one storm,
was to praise the dog after each clap
of thunder, telling him he's a Good Dog!
This is an almost 13 year old Doberman, BTW.
The next time it thundered, he did not even
react at all--you could not tell it was the same
dog as before.
There was more thunder just the other day,
and same thing, nada, nothing, zilch, no
cowering, whimpering, trying to hide at all,
it was that simple.
I got this idea from Jerry Howe, who might seem
to be a "wild and crazy" character, but his non-
abusive way of handling dogs WORKS.
Wonderfully.
Praise.
It's that simple.
Juanita
-----------------------
HOWEver, meat terri DON'T LIKE THAT <{}: ~ ) >
"Out of 5 dogs so far, I've had 2 that are afraid of thunderstorms.
Mojo, the GSD, by far, is the worst I've had. I've learned a few
things so far.. reassurance only compounds the problem. It's like
telling the dog, "hey, it's okay to be afraid". "
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA!!!
From: dogsnus <dogs...@micron.net>
Date: 2000/01/11
Subject: Turkey Gut/Mojo
Okay, it's been over 1 and a half weeks since Mojo
snagged a 20# turkey carcass off the WAY back area
of the counter, so he's okay now. This big_ moose is
bigger than I realized. DH was slicing off turkey flesh
to marinate and dehydrate, and realizing what happened
on Christmas day, (another story), DH made a point of
pushing this carcass WAY back on an area neither of us
would have realized that Mojo could reach . (Those who
have been here or seen our photos could visualize this part
of the kitchen).
Didn't work. (I've mentioned that Mojo was a HUGE oversized
GSD before). The platter was left unmoved and the carcass gone_.
Not ONE little turkey scrap was found anywhere in the house.
Cooked turkey, bones, GADS!
I have been following these dogs around the yard for
days watching their stools, and I demanded DH do the
same, since it happened while he was in charge during
the day.
(I know, I'm a hard task-master). WEG!
At any rate, now that we know Mojo has been "rewarded"
for his efforts, I'm about to set him up with cans and string
that hopefully will trip him up and scare the living smoke
out of him the next time he tries this little stunt.
I'll let you know what happens.
Terri
Very thankful none of my dogs had problems and
VERY thankful none ended up at the vet's with
punctured intestines, etc.
From: "Jerry Howe" j...@cfl.rr.com
Date: 2000/01/12
Subject: Re: Turkey Gut/Mojo
"dogsnus" <dogs...@micron.net> wrote in message
news:387BF982...@micron.net...
Hello dogsnnuts,
It's not necessary to create a gigantic racket to scare
the Wits' End out of your dog...
All you need is any brief sound followed by praise.
Although it doesn't make any sense to you to praise
after the sound, it's not necessary for it to make sense
to you, just to the dog. The sound must never come
from the same place twice in a row, and scolding has
no place in the process.
Using the techniques exactly as I teach them, breaks
the dog's DESIRE for the unwanted behavior, not just
scares the bejesus out of him.
Had you read and followed the instructions I provide
here for free, you wouldn't have had the problem to
begin with.
Some slight differences in your approach to behavior
will make significant improvements in all of your results.
-------------------
HOWEDY meat terri a.k.a. dogsnuts, you pathetic
miserable stinkin lyin animal murderin punk thug
coward active accute chronic life long incurable
malignant maliciHOWES mental case and career
kibologist and SHELTER / RESCUE dog lover
FRAUD an SCAM ARTIST and False Christian,
> Along with not all dogs instinctively knowing how to swim
CITES PLEASE?
EVERY THING you think you know abHOWET dogs
is EXXXACTLY PRECISELY OPPOSITE of HOWE
it really IS <{}: ~ ( >
> or in some cases, being unable to swim despite being taught
CITES PLEASE?
> how I can vouch today that not all dogs seem to be
> able to learn to navigate a substance called "ice".
That's ABSURD. Dogs "can't swim" on accHOWENT they
PAINICK, the SAME reason they "can't walk on ice" or
tile floors <{}: ~ ( >
Dogs PAINICK on accHOWENTA they're HYPERACTIVE
from ABUSIVE handling and trainin by DOG LOVERS like
you and your punk thug coward active accute chronic life long
incurable malignant mental case pals <{}: ~ ( >
Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last Student Demonstrated At UofOH,
That Rehabilitation Of Hyperactive Dogs Can Easily And
Readily Be Done Using TLC. Tender Loving Care Is At The
Root Of The Scientific Management Of Doggies. <{) ; ~ ) >
> _Some_ dogs, not naming names, ought to have
> been born with ice cleats on their feets
INDEED? TheyARE. We call them CLAWS.
>. _Some_ dogs don't seem to grok that all terra isn't truly firma.
Oh, you mean JUST LIKE HOWE "some dogs" fear thunder
and small children and get "Canine Cognitive DIS-EASE",
meat terri? Perahps you should restrict you idiotic postings to
alt.religion.kibology where you won't be ridiculed?
> _Some_ dogs have to be carried, all 80 lbs of them,
> over the icy spots on a wooden deck to the ground.
THAT'S on accHOWENTA they're AFRAID.
> Ahem.
HOWE COME ALL YOUR DOGS ARE PHOBIC?:
HOWEDY dogsnuts,
dogsnus wrote:
> John Doe <jd...@usenet.love.invalid> wrote in
> news:Xns96B331EA36...@207.115.63.158:
>
> > troll
Looks like john doe doesn't LIKE what he READS.
> > Please don't cross post your rants.
SUFFER, john doe. SUFFER.
> Please learn to trim your posts
Yeah, it's EMBARRASSING when new readers
copy the entire text QUOTING YOU HURTING
INTIMIDATING and MURDERING dogs, dogsnuts.
> and I've inserted ninnyboy in there
BRILLIANT! That was recommended by ed w of
PET LOSS DOT COIN on accHOWENT of The Amazing
Puppy Wizared is BAD for the PET LOSS BUSINESS.
> as a long standing traditon over here on rpd.behavior
It was SECONDED by professor SCRUFF SHAKE dermer,
another DISCREDITED DOG ABUSING PUNK THUG
COWARD MENTAL CASE who USED TO SELL his bogus
master's degree program on The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Forums And
School Of HARD KNOCKS and HUMAN BEHAVIOR RESEARCH
LABORATORIES <{); ~ ) >
> when responding to or about this nutjob.
WHO'S THE NUTJOB, dogsnuts, you pathetic mental case?
> Although I do find it hilarious to have seen after
> all this time
Hey? You wanna see hilariHOWES, dogsnuts? JUST READ
SOME OF YOUR OWN POSTED CASE HISTORY:
> that my dog goes through windows due to fear of thunder!
From: dogsnus <"Terri"@cyberhighway .net>
Date: 1997/10/08
Subject: Re: Terror of Thunder, Golden Unrestrainable
> Ive had 2 dogs afraid of thunder, and never have successfully
> eliminated their fear. Ive tried playing thunder and lightning
> CD,s put up a fan to help mask the noise, but never have they
> 100% gotten over the fear.
IN FACT, IT ONLY GETS WORSE as you SEZ:
"I've learned a few things so far.. reassurance
only compounds the problem."
"Last thing you want to do is reassure the dog when
a storm comes and he's showing signs of nervousness.
"I bring mine in, give Mojo a reasuring pat,
Give treats after a clap of thunder,"
"And, I have NEVER seen this fear pass so far.
In fact, I've only seen it get worse."
> You can't duplicate the smell's of a
> thunderstorm that we can't smell and they can.
That's irrelevent and SHEER IDIOCY. Dogs don't FEAR
the SMELL of rain, lots of times it smells like rain
and DOESN'T RAIN.
> First, it has nothing to do with spoiling a dog that
> creates the fear.
Right. It's CAUSED by CRATING, over CON-TROLL,
INTIMDIATION and REWARDS or BRIBES.
> Last thing you want to do is reassure the dog when
> a storm comes and he's showing signs of nervousness.
But you later recommend taking the dog inside and
giving a cookie every time it thunders and maybe
puttin the dog on leash and working with IT and
IGNORE the dog when IT PAINICKS:
"I've learned a few things so far.. reassurance
only compounds the problem."
"Last thing you want to do is reassure the dog when
a storm comes and he's showing signs of nervousness.
"I bring mine in, give Mojo a reasuring pat,
Give treats after a clap of thunder,"
"And, I have NEVER seen this fear pass so far.
In fact, I've only seen it get worse."
> I bring mine in, give Mojo a reasuring pat,
Yeah, and a pat, which likeWIZE makes the dog
MOORE DEPENDENT on his ABUSER: "Last thing you
want to do is reassure the dog when a storm
comes and he's showing signs of nervousness. <{): ~ ) >
"I've learned a few things so far.. reassurance
only compounds the problem."
"Last thing you want to do is reassure the dog when
a storm comes and he's showing signs of nervousness.
"I bring mine in, give Mojo a reasuring pat,
Give treats after a clap of thunder,"
"And, I have NEVER seen this fear pass so far.
In fact, I've only seen it get worse."
> then act like nothing is wrong.
"I bring mine in, give Mojo a reasuring pat,
Give treats after a clap of thunder,"
"And, I have NEVER seen this fear pass so far.
In fact, I've only seen it get worse."
> I just let him pant and find a place he feels safe in.
HIDING in a CRATE or SAFE PLACE is like hiding under
a blanket from the BOOGEYMAN and INCREASES fears. So
far you've CONTRADICTED EVERY THING YOU'VE SAID that
wasn't TOTALLY IRRELEVENT anyHOWE and therefore
CONTRADICTED ITSELF just on PURE STUPIDITY <{); ~ ) >
"I've learned a few things so far.. reassurance
only compounds the problem."
"Last thing you want to do is reassure the dog when
a storm comes and he's showing signs of nervousness.
"I bring mine in, give Mojo a reasuring pat,
Give treats after a clap of thunder,"
"And, I have NEVER seen this fear pass so far.
In fact, I've only seen it get worse."
> Mojo doesn't destroy things though,
PERAHPS THAT was PRYOR to GETTIN WORSE, as YOU SEZ"
"And, I have NEVER seen this fear pass so far.
In fact, I've only seen it get worse."
> like this dog does, so Im thinking giving him a crate or
> a safe area in the house is the best way to deal with it.
> Provide some sort of noise to help mask out the sound of
> the thunder, like a fan.
DIDN'T WORK, DID IT:
"I've learned a few things so far.. reassurance
only compounds the problem."
"Last thing you want to do is reassure the dog when
a storm comes and he's showing signs of nervousness.
"I bring mine in, give Mojo a reasuring pat,
Give treats after a clap of thunder,"
"And, I have NEVER seen this fear pass so far.
In fact, I've only seen it get worse."
> I also have a neighbor that comes over in the event
> no one is home during a thunder storm to pick Mojo
> up and take him to their house until it passes.
BWEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHHAAAA!!!
> He's getting better,
DESPITE THAT YOU'VE ONLY SEEN IT GET WORSE:
"I've learned a few things so far.. reassurance
only compounds the problem."
"Last thing you want to do is reassure the dog when
a storm comes and he's showing signs of nervousness.
"I bring mine in, give Mojo a reasuring pat,
Give treats after a clap of thunder,"
"And, I have NEVER seen this fear pass so far.
In fact, I've only seen it get worse."
> but he's still nervous.
Oh? So he's NOT AFRAID OF THUNDER, he's just nerveHOWES?
> Champ never did get over it, 13 yrs later.
NEITHER DID Mojo another ten years later... DID HE.
> Other than that,
"And, I have NEVER seen this fear pass so far.
In fact, I've only seen it get worse."
You mean, that your dogs got EVERY FEAR BEHAVIOR
in the book, dogsnuts, on accHOWENT of you're a
dog abusing MENTAL CASE, REMEMBER?
> Im not much help.
PERHAPS THAT'S HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy Wizard
goes "BWEEEAAAAAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAA!!!!" EVERY TIME
YOU POST your IDIOCY and LIES, here abHOWETS?
> But I dont find in unreasonable to bring the
> dog in the house if he's frightened outside.
He's gonna be JUST AS AFRAID inside or HOWET.
> In fact, I find it cruel to force him to stay
> out there in the very thing that causes him such
> terror.
That so? Would you likeWIZE "FIND IT CRUEL" to
allHOWE your dogs to LIVE IN FEAR if you could
CURE IT NEARLY INSTANTLY by simply doing EXXXACTLY
PRECISELY OPPOSITE of HOWE you handle your critters?
>Terri
You're WON for the BOOKS, ain't you, dogsnuts.
> I wonder when that happened because I sure don't remember it.
PERHAPS your ANTI PSYCHOTIC MEDS need changin?:
From: dogsnus <dogs...@micron.net>
Date: 2000/05/18
Subject: Re: Panicked Yorkie
> I'm going to jump in the middle of this post, since I
> feel both posts need to be quoted for interpretation,
> if you don't mind, Testarossa.:)
Oh? You're gonna INTERPRET for us, dogsnuts?
YOUR DOGS GOT THE SAME PROBLEM ON
accHOWENT of YOUR ADVICE.
"I've learned a few things so far.. reassurance
only compounds the problem."
"Last thing you want to do is reassure the dog when
a storm comes and he's showing signs of nervousness.
"I bring mine in, give Mojo a reasuring pat,
Give treats after a clap of thunder,"
"And, I have NEVER seen this fear pass so far.
In fact, I've only seen it get worse."
> As most of you know who go to the behavior group know,
> I'm dealing with the most major T-storm fearful dog I've
> ever had in my life.
So, you're gonna GIVE ADVICE?:
"I've learned a few things so far.. reassurance
only compounds the problem."
"Last thing you want to do is reassure the dog when
a storm comes and he's showing signs of nervousness.
"I bring mine in, give Mojo a reasuring pat,
Give treats after a clap of thunder,"
"And, I have NEVER seen this fear pass so far.
In fact, I've only seen it get worse."
> I've spent several hundreds of dollars in repairs from
> the past storm that went through here last week, and
> just spent another few hundred on a dog door for the
> sliding glass door for when I'm not at home.
SO YOUR DOG DON'T CHEW THROUGH
YOUR HOWES TRYIN TO ESCAPE.
> I'm also collecting stories about remedies on this problem.
Your own POSTED CASE HISTORY is RICH
in REMEDIES for this problem:
"I've learned a few things so far.. reassurance
only compounds the problem."
"Last thing you want to do is reassure the dog when
a storm comes and he's showing signs of nervousness.
"I bring mine in, give Mojo a reasuring pat,
Give treats after a clap of thunder,"
"And, I have NEVER seen this fear pass so far.
In fact, I've only seen it get worse."
> So far, I've found out a few things: It's
> impossible to emulate a thunderstorm
Have you tried dressin up in a sheet with tinfoil on top
and makin S-HOWENDS like banging pots an pans under it?
> to desensitize a dog,
You can't DO that by givin pats and cookies while
IGNORING the dog when IT PAINICKS, dogsnuts you
freakin MENTAL CASE.
> due to many reasons.
On accHOWENT of FEAR OF THUNDER, CAR SICKNESS,
SEPARATION anXXXIHOWESNESS, SUBMISSIVE URINATION
and other STRESS CONDITIONS are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING,
not the car, thunder, or separation, otherWIZE THIS
WOULDN'T WORK:
The Amazing Puppy Wizard's NON PHYSCIAL C-HOWENTER
CONditioning and DESENSITIZATION Technique aka The
Amazing Puppy Wizard's Surrogate Toy Separation
AnXXXIHOWESNESS / Bed Time Calming / Fear Of Thunder /
Car Sickness / Submissive Urination / Obsessive Compulsive
Masturbation / Chronic Urinary Tract / Bladder / Irritable
BHOWEL / Obsessive Compulsive Marking / Spraying / Defecating
Syndrome Technique <{); ~ ) >
> The smell seems to be their que
Sez you? You're full of crap, dogsnuts.
> and there's not a lot us humans can so, so far,
> to imitate ozone/ atmospheric changes, and sounds
> we can't hear before they do, etc..
That'd be ABSURD.
> (If I could solve this problem, I'd be rich)!
You mean, you'd SELL what some folks GIVE AWAY for FREE?:
Chris Williams writes:
"The FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method manual
I do find valuable. Much of it I recognize as what
I've always done without thinking of it as "training".
New stuff, I've used. His anchoring technique erased
the last of Mac's fireworks trauma,"
"Dan Moore" <mooret...@worldnet.att.net>
wrote in message
news:fS2Lc.114567$OB3....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.
Tracy,
What worked for me, in just one storm,
was to praise the dog after each clap
of thunder, telling him he's a Good Dog!
This is an almost 13 year old Doberman, BTW.
The next time it thundered, he did not even
react at all--you could not tell it was the same
dog as before.
There was more thunder just the other day,
and same thing, nada, nothing, zilch, no
cowering, whimpering, trying to hide at all,
it was that simple.
I got this idea from Jerry Howe, who might seem
to be a "wild and crazy" character, but his non-
abusive way of handling dogs WORKS.
Wonderfully.
Praise.
It's that simple.
Juanita
From: lucyaa...@claque.net
Date: 22 May 2005 22:08:53 -0700
Subject: Re: My lab seems to get targeted at the dog park
dinglejingl...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Anyone else have an opinion?
I'm not a trainer and my experience is limited to my
two dogs, so take it for what it's worth. As someone
who had to deal with a puppy who had his own ideas
about what was and what wasn't "proper behavior", I
was very happy to find The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
dog training method.
It is a method that is gentle to the dog, very easy
to apply and it has been working wonderfully with
both my dogs, giving practically instant results.
It was as if I had been given the "key" to understanding
and controlling my puppy's behavior: suddenly, he was
istening to me, doing what I was asking him to do, instead
of constantly opposing me.
It also worked with some issues my older dog had, too -
her fear of thunder, her barking and her aggression
towards another female dog.
Don't let either the first impression about the "weirdness"
of The Amazing Puppy Wizard, or the regulars' negative opinion
of him (there's a long history behind it) deter you from at
least reading the manual and deciding for yourself if you
want to try it or not.
I wish all the best to you and your dog.
Lucy
> Out of 5 dogs so far, I've had 2 that are afraid of thunderstorms.
Yeah, but that's on accHOWENT of you PREFER
to ABUSE THEM, dogsnuts. All you gotta do is
PRAISE your dog and IT WON'T BE AFRAID. But
you gotta STOP JERKING CHOKING SHOCKING and
LOCKING THEM IN BOXES and INTIMIDATING and
BRIBING THEM FIRST, and you can't DO THAT.
> Mojo, the GSD, by far, is the worst I've had.
> I've learned a few things so far.. reassurance
> only compounds the problem.
THAT'S on accHOWENT of YOUR DOG FEARS YOU, dogsnuts.
> It's like telling the dog, "hey, it's okay to be afraid".
Yeah... ain't you scared of lightening?
> Better to adopt a nonchalant attitude and a
> happy voice to the dog to show him/her that's
> it's no big deal.
You mean, GIVE IT REASSURANCE?
> Also, let the dog go to a place where it feels safe,
> the back room, a bathtub, behind a door, etc..
Kinda like hidin under the blanket from the boogeyman?
> It's an attempt to feel safe
You mean instead of being with his FEARLESS LEADER?
> in a small den for protection on the dogs part.
THAT'LL INCREASE ANXXXIHOWESNESS.
> I've found Mojo prefers the room dark if at all possible.
That so?:
"I've learned a few things so far.. reassurance
only compounds the problem."
"Last thing you want to do is reassure the dog when
a storm comes and he's showing signs of nervousness.
"I bring mine in, give Mojo a reasuring pat,
Give treats after a clap of thunder,"
"And, I have NEVER seen this fear pass so far.
In fact, I've only seen it get worse."
> Give treats after a clap of thunder, or.. practice your
> heeling to take the dogs mind off the problem. I do not
> claim that it's going to change the dogs behavior entirely,
> but it does help, " somewhat".
"I've learned a few things so far.. reassurance
only compounds the problem."
"Last thing you want to do is reassure the dog when
a storm comes and he's showing signs of nervousness.
"I bring mine in, give Mojo a reasuring pat,
Give treats after a clap of thunder,"
"And, I have NEVER seen this fear pass so far.
In fact, I've only seen it get worse."
> Many folks recommend natural remedies, but I have no experience
> with them. My problem is with not knowing in advance when one is
> coming up and I refuse to drug my dog when he's not under my
> supervision, and on the off chance a thunderstorm may come up.
>We get them every 2 weeks or so in the late summer and the past
>two weeks, we've gotten 4 or 5, real doozies, too. I hope, in
>some small way, this helps you, jmiller.
>I'll keep updating folks how Mojo is doing when we install that
>door and if I have a house left by the time that next storm rolls
>around when I'm not home with him.
>:)
>Terri
>I agree.And, I have NEVER seen this fear pass so far.
>In fact, I've only seen it get worse.
>> <jmil...@imagedesign.com> wrote in message
>> news:8fvkc4$nmf$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>> > My Yorkie has always been afraid of thunderstorms. Last
>> > week we had about 4 of them. When this happens she shakes
>> > as if she were battery operated and finds the smallest
>> > place she can...the little bathroom and jumps in the tub.
>> > She is just panicked.
>Let her do it.
>> > Now all of a sudden, maybe two days after the storms of
>> > last week, she has been exhibiting the same symptoms at
>> > about 8:00 every night for 4 days in a row. The rest of
>> > the day she is fine. I have Valium to give her, but that
>> > just treats the symptoms. Has anyone ever experineced
>> > this with their dog?
>See above.
>> > The Vet just says it will pass. That isn't a good enough
>> > answer for me.
>I agree.
>And, I have NEVER seen this fear pass so far.
>In fact, I've only seen it get worse.
>> > I would like to get to the bottom of this.
>If you do, let me know. We can go into business together and be RICH!
You mean, LIKE THIS?:
Mrs. Altman is the wife of a practicing psychiatrist
who has studied with The Puppy Wizard and endorses
HIS methods:
Subj: Fear of Thunder
Date: 6/29/02 6:07:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: Jraltman
To: Witsenddog
Dear Jerry,
I hope you'll be able to post this message so more
people who are at their wit's end will be able to help
their dogs.
To review:
Our puppy was uncomfortable during thunder storms.
At the beginning of the problem, she paced restlessly
from room to room. She couldn't settle and sleep.
From there the problem grew. She would run to the far
southeast corner of the house (which makes sense
because most storms here come from the northwest)
and she'd cower in the corner of the couch and shake.
!st attempt to help her:
I'd pick her up, brush and massage her (call me a nut -
I've sung to her when I've done her daily brushing since
she was tiny so of course I sang too) and when she
relaxed, I'd put her in her crate. She then slept and I
thought the problem was solved.
Traumatic event:
We were out in the park playing with one of her doggy
friends when it began to rain. On the way home, there
was the loudest, longest, thunder clap I've ever heard.
From that day on, the problem got worse and worse.
I couldn't calm her with singing and massage. The fear
spread. She wouldn't go out if it was raining. No thunder,
just gently summer rain, and she wouldn't go out.
The solution:
I surfed the net and came across a free manual Wit's
End Dog Training Method and a product called Doggy
Do Right that seemed better than anything else I came
across.
A phone call to Jerry Howe, author of the manual and
Director of Research, Biosound Scientific, convince me
to try both the manual and the product.
Problem solved:
I followed Jerry's suggestions (more phone calls - he is
most generous with his time and advice). The first two
thunder storms my puppy was restless but not running
around in a blind panic.
The third storm, she barked her deep, stranger danger
bark after each clap of thunder. The fourth storm, she
seemed uneasy at first. Soon she was asleep at my
feet and she napped through the rest of the storm.
A miracle. I am endlessly grateful to Jerry
for his manual and his machine.
A word about Doggy Do Right. It is odd to buy a
machine that emits a sound I cannot hear. I took
the chance because Jerry offered a full refund
including shipping.
Though I heard nothing, my puppy clearly did. When
I first turned on the machine, she got the cutest, most
quizzical look on her face. She looked at me as if to
say: "What's that? I never heard that before."
She looks at the machine when it is on. She rests on the floor
beneath it. It is obvious from her behavior that she is aware
of its cycles.
Amazing.
Thank you Jerry.
=============
>> > We love her and hate to see her go through this fear every night.
>I understand completely.
>Good luck.
>Terri
>================
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAHAHAHAHHAHHAAA!!!
Some EXXXPERT! You say IGNORE the dog OR give it COOKIES
and put IT on leash and do some heeling to keep IT occupied.
You HIRE a neighbor to scoop up your puddle of German Shepherd
Dog and put IT in a bucket and take IT to their HOWES so IT
won't DESTROY YOUR HOWES tryin to ESCAPE.
> He can't even get the name or sex of the
> mythical window jumping dog right
THAT'S on accHOWENT of you got TOO MANY of them to
keep track of and you got such a RICH CASE HISTORY
of temperament and behavior problems with your own
dogs.
> and one of the dogs has been dead for @ 10 years now;
But they BOTH DESTROYED YOUR HOWES tryin to ESCAPE.
> the one who had no fear of thunder.
Yeah? Did you FORGET abHOWET THE OTHER TWO WHO
ARE AFRAID of thunder and DESTROY YOUR HOWES so
bad you got to HIRE someWON to attend to them if a storm comes...
so they DON'T DESTROY YOUR HOWES and ESCAPE on accHOWENT
of they're DOG FIGHTERS and will MURDER any neighborhood
critters they come across.
> What a maroon!
Yeah? Fear of thunder is CAUSED by ABUSING DOGS.
> "And you want to be my latex salesman?"
>
> Terri
>
> <dogsnus"Terri"@cyberhighway> dogsnuts wrote:
> Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
> He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
> watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
> Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
> come forward and actually believe in his training manual.
Robert Crim writes:
I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs since
I freely admit to having read and, I hope, understood enough
of the manual and it's counterparts by John Fisher and the
posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe and use it. This naive
child would like to say thank you to both Jerry and Marilyn for
putting up with a constant barrage of really infantile crap at
the hands of supposedly adult dog lovers.
The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the nagging
idea that if people like them had been posting earlier, maybe
we would not have had to hold the head of a really
magnificent animal in our arms while he was given the
needle and having to hug him and wait until he gasped
his last gasp.
To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog into
good behavior. Naive is believing that people that hide
behind fake names are more honest than people that use
their real names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog
breeders and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY,
j.h.) are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.
"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are going
to just go away because you people act like fools.
Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea,
and I don't really care.
> And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and actually
> admit to buying and having success with his little black box.
I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and take
it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and testing. You
would never believe the results, so you'll never know.
> Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
> Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming to
> him! LOL!
I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve, eh?
As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.
>Terri
Yes it was, and that is sad.
Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I
get to listen to the box first?)
-------------------
> (adding this thread to the kill file)
snip
Right behind ya, gal. Right behind ya.
RL dog and behavior stuff, yanno, what this group is entitled??
Well, the kiddo came over on the 28th for Xmas, (his new job
had him workig on Xmas), and lo and behold the dawgs haven't
seen the kiddo since Thanksgiving, but yet; they neither barked
nor growled a bit when kiddo drove up. Rather, they waited at
the garage door, waving tails and snuffling until the kiddo got
in the house.
Then, they waved the tails gently, snuffled kiddo and got up
on the sofa with him to get their scritches.
I tell ya, these dogs KNOW who their family is and who isn't!
It must_ be instinctive. Why?
Step-daughters first visit here was a few years ago, and the *watch-
dogs*, those mean ol' GSDs, did the same thing upon
thier first meeting with her. These same dogs did NOT grow up
with our youngest kiddo, nor step-daughter; but yet: they did
the same thing upon greeting kiddo which whom they had not
been raised with.
Terri
(They freak out on little kiddos, though.
The 6 and 4 year old neighbors came over a couple of months ago.
Luke, 5, was a bit nervous. He kept his distance and whined a bit
from the back bedrooms. My normally rock solid Luke, afraid of
little quick moving kids.
Sigh.
My fault. None of the dogs has spent any amount of time around little
ones.
Mojo was okay until the 3 yr. old was sitting on the coffee table
and Mojo decided to do the "bark and snarly bad break dance doggie"
routine.
Well, that was it.
Mojo and Luke are not to be trusted with little fast moving tots on
their turf. I know him well enough to know he would not have bit,
but... I can't take the chance of a dog with a mouth THAT big
around a toddler.
Dogs outside, sad to say.
Can't risk it.
Terri
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
Subject: Re: babies alone with dogs today meat terri
Date: Wednesday, August 15, 2007
"Terri" <Te...@micron.net> wrote in message
news:5hmsfuF...@mid.individual.net...
> Paula <mmmtob...@earthlink.ent> wrote in
> news:Xns99836B0146629mm...@199.45.49.11:
>
>> elegy <el...@DOGPOOPshattering.org> wrote in
>> news:ltqbb3dj97rj0guu8...@4ax.com:
>>
>>> how is this for utterly tragic?
> And to follow up to that I'm going to mention something
> exactly like this that came close to happening with my own
> dogs once.
>
> When Hailey was 6 months old the kids came down to Lousiana
> to visit us. My dogs had met Hailey's mom once and they had
> known my son since they were pups and were perfectly fine with
> them.
>
> But I already knew the Sheps weren't socialized well to
> small children and didn't trust them, except for Taffy and
> this was after we'd suddenly learned of Mojo's deep dog
> aggression and had viewed it first hand along with his
> incredible speed just how serious he could be about it.
>
> Hailey was in the playpen in the front room, I was in the kitchen
> just 8-10 feet away. There was a small passthrough window
> and a high counter top that allowed me to see over it into the
> living room.
>
> I had previously warned the kids that I didn't care for the way
> the Sheps acted around young children and told them *not* to
> leave Hailey unnattended around them for _any_ reason.
>
> Towards the end of the week they apparently had grown
> complacent because I looked up from the kitchen into the
> living room where I could see Hailey but the Sheps had
> gone to the playpen and they were growling at her in that
> playpen like she was suddenly a strange new animal in
> their home.
>
> I realized the kids had walked into the back of the house
> for just a moment and the minute they did, the dynamics
> changed for the dogs.
>
> Luke was acting in a way that told me he was feeding on Mojo's
> actions and I instinctively just knew this would be a disaster
> if I hadn't been there to put a stop to it. I roundly dismissed
> the dogs and picked her up from the playpen and then chewed
> the kids out up one side and down the other for walking off like
> that.
>
> They should have told me the second they were going to leave the
> room with Hailey and the dogs in there but they just didn't think
> about it.
>
> Would I call them irresponsible parents? No. My son especially is
> devoted and downright overly protective of his daughter.
>
> It happened _so_ fast.
>
> I believe in my heart that had the behavior continued Mojo would
> have at the very _least_ badly bitten my grand-daughter. After that
> it's entirely possible that Luke would have joined in as well.
> I saw the look in Mojo's dilated eyes and his body language
> scared the hell out of me. It was the same kind of behavior
> he'd exhibited with other dogs just prior to his frustration
> in being unable to get to them and then he'd nip at the other
> two.
>
> I'm thankful I already had a deep mistrust of Mojo's reliablility
> around children and the overly responsible mindset that I
> had with him in keeping such a sharp eye on him or it most likely
> would have ended in tragedy.
>
> So yup, what you say here is so true:
>
> The problem comes when people think that having
> the kid in a playpen means the kid is safe
BWEEEAAAHAHAAA~!~!~!
HOWEDY dogsnuts,
dogsnus wrote:
>
> Recently I've been entertained by the extreme differences of
> behavior between both Sheps when I apply the identical head
> fondle on them.
Naaah?
> The head fondle is when I place both hands on either
> side of their face,
Kinda like when you scold them.
> and gently rub my hand back and forth and at the same time
> use a small left to ride back and forth movement and talk
> to them softly in my "you're the bestest dog in the world" voice.
That's kindly of you.
> Mojo goes all dreamy instantly. His eyes half close, his mouth
> opens into a shep smile, tongue out, tail gently waving or thumping
> for a minute then he gets into it so much the tail goes limp.
You mean he submits to you.
> Eventually he'll flop over completely relaxed and ready
> for either sleep or belly rubs.
Yeah, SUBMISSIVE behavior.
> Luke, OTOH, is a hoot. He begins to moan, groan and wiggle.
That's ANXXXIHOWESNESS.
> Out of four GSDs he is the most vocal one I've _ever_ had.
> He gets extremely talkative and "speaks" to me in whines of
> varying pitches of aroos, mumphs,and arrrs.
That's EXXXTREME anXXXIHOWESNESS.
> He begins to gently lick my face
That's SUBMISSIVE behavior.
> and starts to get really wired for a bit.
That's anXXXIHOWESNESS - FEAR behavior.
> Eventually he squirms around enough so he can flop his
> front foot over to hook my wrist so I won't quit.
NO. THAT'S to RESTRICT you from HURTIN him.
> He hangs onto it as long as he can then he gets ready
> to "assume the position" which around here means: Belly
> Rubs! Let the Belly Rubs begin!
NO. That's SUBMISSIVE behavior.
> Taffy is somewhat different as well, she falls asleep with her
> head on my hand expecting me to stay there and hold it while
> she's sleeping.
That's nice.
> What? This IS what passes for entertainment around here!
Better you should post to kibo.
> Terri
diddler wrote:
"I was in that position once when Becky was hit
by a car when my son left the yard gate open."
Fromdiddy <di...@nospam.diddy.net>
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 17:43:30 -0500
Subject: Re: Rural person needs help euthanizing his loving pet.
I think sedating her with benedryl until she was overly sleepy, and
injecting her with Epsom salts IV should cause such chemical
imbalance that it should do the trick.
I'm not sure how humane that would be, It would cause a heart attack.
Well placed gun shots are probably the most immediate, effective and
humane, but then, you said that was not acceptable. Carbon dioxide is
NOT humane.. it's slow and agonizing as the other gasses in car
exhaust burn out the lungs causing agonizing death.
Re: Question About Euthanasia - Not For Faint of Heart
"diddy" <di...@nospam.diddy.net> wrote
in message news:Xns995C9D2...@216.196.97.142...
in later years, I released a dog from the pound. She
was dumped for biting. Knowing that most of the time,
a dog that bites is the child's fault, I brought her
home to see if she was salvageable in a childless home.
She at least deserved an evaluation. She seemed fine,
then the following day, with no provocation, she lunged
for my throat. This was an unprovoked attack, and I knew
there was probably something physically wrong with the
dog (perhaps a brain tumor?) and regardless, she was a
HUGE liability risk, and I could never place her.
So I took her to the vet for euthanasia.
The vet kept sticking her for 15 minutes, and it was the
ugliest screaming death I ever witnessed.... until I had
my old 18 year old companion diagnosed with systemic
organ failure. Her old body wore out. I took her to the vet.
Apparently poor circulation caused her not to use the
euthanasia shot properly. The vet kept giving her one
shot after another, and she dies a slow agonizing death,
screaming, and looking at me in betrayal and dismay.
I wanted to grab her from the vet, and take her home,
and shoot her. It would have been over faster.
Then I took Danny in for Euthanasia. The best dog I've
ever had. The vet stuck him, and he went down HARD,
screaming.
He screamed for about 10 minutes.
If a vet was going to get a dog right, this one he HAD
to, and he didn't. I was furious. I'm forever sorry I
took him to the vet, but the violence of shooting him
was just unnacceptable to me.
These are THREE different vets.
I've witnessed hundreds of vet euthanasias that went
uneventfully. But those THREE failures stick forever
in my mind. Two on dogs very near and dear to me.
If I could accept the violence and had the fortitude
to do the job myself, those dogs would have never
needlessly suffered. A bullet properly placed is quick
and final.
Perhaps the OP has had not so good experiences, and
just wants to be sure the job is done right. I don't
necessarily consider them a troll (however I strongly
suspect that they are, and if they have to ask what
caliber to use, they probably are not a good enough
shot that they should attempt this)
------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
IDIOT <{}: ~ ( >
Subject: Mojo's last day-a year late
I'll warn you right up front this is not a story that will
end up with you feeling anything good. I know this because
I've been living with this almost a year. The difference to
me right now is that I'm finally able to write about it having
taken this long because I knew I'd have to re-live it once
again and up until now, I couldn't.
Mojo died a year ago on the 21rd of June.
He did not die well.
I won't go into the details that led us to that last day here
as I already have written of that on my LJ. If you do want to
read it just ask and I'll post the URL.
Luke's death in January of the same year is also there and will
show the vast contrast between what happened with each dog and
why Mojo's death has been so difficult for me and pretty much
destroyed any hope of any real closure for my husband and I.
These dogs lived with us daily, close to us in ways that no
other two dogs have been. They'd been through a catostrophic
hurricane with us, they'd both had medical problems we'd
dutifully taken care of for much of their lives and they've
traveled literally, thousands of miles with us. We'd all lived
together in a 26 foot long travel trailer at times and that in
itself is pretty darn intimate in the "living with the dogs"
department.
We could read each other's moods and sometimes didn't even
have to speak to them and they'd know what we wanted just
by their observations of our body language. It was unique,
even more so than our previous canine crews.
We'd only been back in Idaho,in this town for @ 3 months when
we first took Mojo in to a new vet. I liked him a great deal
and was impressed with him. He was an older guy yet very willing
to listen to me and best of all, he and Mojo seemed to hit it off
immediately. He had always been partial to the big dogs, GSDs in
particular.
In the next few days we'd be forced to think the unthinkable
that we all have to when we outlive our dogs but since I'd
been through this three times before I knew all the questions
to ask beforehand. Or so I thought.
The vet and I had discussed in great detail what we'd be doing,
what we'd be using, where my husband and I would be, what we'd
observe, what would be happening at what point in time-everything.
No surprises. Just as peacefully and as perfect as when we'd put
Luke down six months earlier.
As hard as that was, as much as I will always miss him just
as much as all my other beloved dogs, I left there feeling
closure and the deep belief and comfort that I'd done the
right thing by him. I felt as a responsible dog owner that
could proudly look in the mirror and believe I did the right
thing for Luke.
The day we took Mojo in to say goodbye however, we weren't
greeted by the vet I'd met and talked to and gotten to know
but by his associate, whom I'd never met before. In retrospect
I should have stopped everything right then and there but I didn't.
I trusted he'd do things exactly the way the other vet and I
discussed and I believed everything that took place when it
was Luke's turn would happen that day with Mojo.
And I think also that mentally we'd prepared ourselves for it
so well it never occurred to us to go back. We were ready and
Mojo was ready. I've always abided by one simple rule with all
my dogs and that is that when the time is right, when life is
too painful for them to enjoy;
then my promise, my duty is that I will allow them to go with
dignity, quietly and stress free; to a place where there is no
pain. I _owe_ them that at the very least.
That day we sat on the floor with Mojo, his favorite red plaid/
sheepskin blanket under him and hand fed him his favorite treats-
beef, chocolate, whatever. He received his first shot to relax
him and as he drifted off and dozed a bit the vet and his assistant
began to administer the final shot. We expecting the exact same
thing that had happened with Champ, Darcy and Luke...to begin
seeing his breathing slow, his eyes close and his body to fully
relax until a check on his heartbeat showed he was really and
truly gone while listening to the love in our voices to
comfort him. That didn't happen.
He suddenly began thrashing around wildly and screaming loudly
as the vet kept trying to stick the needle in his vein. As out of it as
he was then he still managed to half stand up, still screaming loudly
in pain.
I couldn't move. I was absolutely horrified and paralyzed.
My husband finally found the presence of mind to ask "What
is happening, what's going on?, I thought this was going to
be peaceful"! The vet screamed back at him:
"IT NORMALLY IS! HIS VEINS HAVE COLLAPSED!"
The rational part of me realizes the vet was horrified as well
and the yelling and defensiveness was part of that but the other
part of me, the white hot angry part was so upset that Mojo was
hearing all of this disturbance in our voices I wanted to punch
the guy right in the face.
Instead I grabbed him by his coat collar and pulled his face
close to mine but I couldn't say anything.I was in shock.
My concern for only Mojo kicked in then and my husband flat out
told the vet to leave right now that we needed some time with
Mojo to settle him and calm him down.
The vet left and we spent the next 15 to 20 minutes crooning
to Mojo, petting him and comforting him until he became calm
and dozed again, his head in lap and our arms around him.
The vet returned with a different syringe that contained
something of a different color and I swear to you that his
face was ash white. I have no idea what we looked like but
I have no doubt ours were too.
The final shot was administered and we spent the next ten
minutes with tears streaming down our faces and our bodies
wracked in sobs not because Mojo was gone but because he'd
gone like that and we felt responsible.
The gift of going without pain was ours to give him and we
failed him. And in doing so we also would never receive the
closure we needed as well.
After that, we got up and left him there on the floor with
his blanket and walked out like zombies. I don't throw up
as a rule of thumb unless I have a bad stomach virus because
I hate it so much which means I've thrown up about 3 time in
the past 30 years.
That day, I made it as far as the car door then I threw up
all over the parking lot then again when I got home.
I literally was so overwhelmed by what had just happened and so
emotionally drained like nothing I'd ever experienced before.
To this day my husband and I have never sat down and gone over
the minute details together because we were there-we don't need to.
We have discussed it indirectly, hugged each other and cried buckets
of tears. To be brutally honest I've been more affected by this than
by losing my Mom last fall because she at least went very peacefully,
unlike Mojo. You can be very sure when it's Taffy's time this is
something I will be discussing with the vet and if there's a backup
plan for this sort of thing you can be damn sure it will be in place.
I never ever want to see another animal I love go through this
again in my life. Had I known this would happen, I'd have taken
him out and put a bullet through his head myself to guarantee it
would be painless and quick.
I'd much rather live with that image than the one I carry around.
It took me six months just to be able to drive down that street
without being aware or looking at the window where it happened
and I haven't been back in to talk to that vet whom, I recently
learned, sold the practice to someone else.
I probably should have gone back within a few weeks or so
but now too much time has elapsed for me to feel comfortable
doing that.
I've never heard of anyone else having this happen and maybe
if I had I'd have somehow been able to prevent it but I'll
never know for sure.
So that's what happened last year when Mojo died and it's why
I have had such a difficult time with it as well a big reason
as to why I've disappeared a lot from the newsgroup for long
periods of time.
Often I've logged on here but see that someone has recently
lost a dog and it's just too hard so I quietly leave. I do
want ya'll to know though that my silence doesn't mean I'm
indifferent to your loss, it's just brings back too many bad
memories of my own.
So this part of the healing process has begun, it seems.
RIP Mojo
On 10 Jun 2007 01:16:09 GMT, Terri <Te...@micron.net> wrote:
> I had no idea, only that you'd gone through a horrible period
> losing so many animals. I hope you don't mind me asking some
> questions here.
Not at all.
> Did you have a problem with the veins collapsing such as Mojo did?
No; what happened with Boomer, the world's most loving Siberian, is
that he had lumbosacral stenosis, which is why he was going to the
Bridge in the first place - he'd had discomfort and mobility problems
for some time but still bounded around with his odd rocking horse
gait, happy to be alive, until that Friday evening when his back end
just gave out and he couldn't get up. But our usual vet, the senior
guy, isn't in on Saturdays, and this vet didn't know about his back
problem, and I think the position she put him in on the table
aggravated it. But I also have to say that for some reason, Boomer
was agitated as soon as I put him in the van to go to the vet that
morning, which was very unusual for him. He kind of whined off
and on to the vet and acted as though he were in distress at the vet's
until the euthanasia solution kicked in. It was very unnerving and,
as with you and Mojo, not something I like to remember.
> Do you feel it was a lack of experience that caused the problem,
> the bedside manner or the fact you didn't know him/her very well?
Lack of experience. Her bedside manner was fine; she was very kind.
But she didn't know Boomer, and I guess she didn't look at his chart
or she'd have seen he had back problems, and I didn't think to tell
her until it was too late. Obviously, I wasn't thinking as clearly as
I hopefully do ordinarily, but that's a good reason to never have an
unfamiliar vet euthanize one's animals.
> And most importantly, what do you know of backup plans that can
> be put into place in the event it isn't going well initially and
> needs to be quickly ended, keeping the tension out of it?
In Boomer's case, I think she was a bit unnerved by his crying (not
screaming), and tried to speed it up. I chose not to say anything
about his back at that point and reposition him because I didn't want
to prolong it. I honestly don't know the answer to your question
about backup plans. We have never had a problem when the senior
vet does the procedure - - unlike many, maybe most vets, he does not
use a sedative beforehand, because he says that slows down the dog's
system and prolongs the process.
Sighthounds have these big old hearts that sometimes want to keep
going, so he tends to use more euthanasia solution than needed, and
I think that what he does is just give a huge dose that would drop a
small horse. The result is *always* that the dog loses consciousness
and dies very quickly. Peaceful each and every time, and the dog
doesn't have the added discomfort of an extra IV or catheter.
>> You still gave Mojo the gift of release from pain.
>> Eventually. :(
I know. But does live in and for the moment, and we humans can
take a big lesson from that. A dog would never keep remembering and
torturing itself the way you and your DH and I have. I know Boomer
would forgive those last moments, as he forgave everything else, and
I'm sure Mojo would as well. FWIW, you did the exact right thing by
calling a halt to the procedure and calming everybody, especially
Mojo down.
To lighten the moment, I will tell you what happened when we put
Tasha down on April 28. Tasha was a most awesome Siberian Husky.
She was 14 and we got her from a pound when she was about a year.
To say she was intelligent is like saying Paris Hilton is spoiled. She
once found our greyhound Matty in some woods about 6 miles from
home, where he hid during the 36 hours he was lost - DH said "find
Matty", and damned if she didn't.
She once grabbed the neck of a dog that DH was unsuccessfully
trying to prevent from attacking another dog - just closed her jaws
and held on. Anyway, she'd had osteosarcoma for 22 months and
it showed signs of having spread to her brain, and she had impaired
kidney function as well.
We were dreading this day like never before. Oddly enough, I
believe Tasha was ready. She was always our alpha, a supremely
confident dog with a great deal of pride. On the table, her front
paw shook and DH - - she was always his girl - - held it.
As always with this vet, it was very smooth and peaceful (he
particularly liked her, said she reminded him of that female l
ead dog on Eight Below) and she was gone very quickly. Just
as the vet and tech left the room and closed the door, leaving
DH and me alone with Tasha, her head came up, facing the
door, and her tongue stuck out.
DH couldn't help laughing - said she'd gotten the last word.
Yes, we know it was just a reflex, but it was somehow fitting.
I hope you don't mind me asking: have you ever discussed this with
another vet? If Mojo's reaction was caused by his veins collapsing
(and I've heard of that but not heard of it causing that result), why
was the vet able to complete the procedure?
Did he have something in the second syringe to dilate the veins?
Mustang Sally
-------------------
Shelly
> A tween! A tween! Oh, I've been in tween withdrawal for so long.
>
> And such a worthy subject too. Good job!
Thank you kindly, ma'am! It seems like the most fitting response to
wackaloon bozocity is more wackaloon bozocity, no?
--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
Janet Boss
Shelly <she...@cat-sidh.net> wrote:
>
> Thank you kindly, ma'am! It seems like the most fitting response to
> wackaloon bozocity is more wackaloon bozocity, no?
It was most excellent and appropriate!
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
diddy
news:Xns9AD59FF6E35DD...@85.214.90.236:
> "cybercat" <cyber...@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:g50dra$std$1...@registered.motzarella.org:
>
>> You're so full of shit. Your allergies "cannot be controlled" with
> mere hecatombs to our alien overlords. An aluminum toque repells
>> medication simply because it suits your pro-breeding agenda.
>>
>> You see animals as objects with which you imagine you may elevate
> conjugate dessert plate pieces of eight. An apparatus for your
>> your social status. You should not even bother to try, because
> resistance is futile. But hey nonny nonny I see that you see that
>> everyone can *see* what you are. Pathetic.
> I am. It's true and that's not a lie.
>
> IFYPFY. HTH BBQ and God bless!
>
Very nice
Phil P.
> In article <Z%Cck.350$rb1.46@trndny08>, "Phil P." <ph...@maxshouse.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > As long as you're breeding cats while cats are dying in shelters because
> > there aren't enough homes- you can bet your "irresponsible,
> > morally bankrupt" ass you're doing something wrong.
>
>
> responsible breeding practices.
"Responsible breeding"... is an oxymoron. The words just don't go
together.Kinda like "Best Friends" and "choking/shocking".
> Sorry - I don't think there is the
> slightest thing wrong with wanting a responsibly bred animal.
Of course you don't. Most of your inept customers have pedigreed animals,
don't they?
You also don't think there is the slightest thing wrong with choking and
shocking dogs and declawing cats. Animal ethics and animal welfare issues
just aren't your strong suits.
Go after
> the folks who aren't. They're the ones filling shelters.
All breeders are contributing to filling shelters- some directly- some
indirectly.
> > ...and every top quality home you find for your intentionally bred cats,
is
> > one home less for a cat languishing in a shelter where she'll be
eventually
> > killed.
> >
> A fallacy,
As if you had a clue!
"Don't breed or buy while shelter pets die"
Janet Boss
Cheryl <jlhs...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
>
> This honestly is the real deal. So many just don't understand it.
> just won't understand it.
Maybe because it's based on poor data and rhetoric? Responsible
breeders are neither filling the shelters nor costing shelter animals a
home. When will the zealots get THAT?
I've been doing shelter and rescue work since 1992 and have owned more
shelter/rescue/second hand pets than purebred purchased pets, so please
- I am very far from "understanding". I actually think and understand
instead of following AR propaganda.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
Janet Boss
Cheryl <jlhs...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
>
> i wasn't even replying to you, but you snipped what I wrote about
> the 'real deal'.
>
Snipping is appropriate in most forums, can't figure out why it isn't
here. Following a thread isn't that hard.
>
> >>>>>Repost<<<<<
>
> > "Don't breed or buy while shelter pets die"
>
> This honestly is the real deal. So many just don't understand it.
> just won't understand it.
>
> >>>>>end Repost<<<<<
>
> It isn't rhetoric and it isn't a fairy tale. If there weren't
> breeders pushing defective animals, the ones already here needing a
> home would have one. Why is that so hard to understand?
The problem I have with your spiel is that you are claiming that all
breeders are producing ("pushing") defective animals. You have no
understanding of responsible breeding, or refuse to. Where are all of
the animals in need of homes coming from? Not responsible breeders, by
definition. Keep cleaning up the mess made by irresponsible
"breeders" and it's a vicious cycle of supporting THEM.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
Phil P.
> In article <Xns9AD6D06...@216.196.97.136>,
> Cheryl <jlhs...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > This honestly is the real deal. So many just don't understand it.
> > just won't understand it.
>
> Maybe because it's based on poor data and rhetoric?
Naa, I'd say its true. Its obvious that you're trying to defend breeders
because most of your inept customers have pedigreed dogs.
Responsible
> breeders
..is a contradiction in terms. A "responsible breeder" wouldn't breed more
animals while millions of cats and dogs are killed every year because there
aren't enough homes.
are neither filling the shelters nor costing shelter animals a
> home.
They most certainly are contributing to the overpopulation problem. They're
breeding more cats and dogs while millions of cats and dogs are killed every
year because there aren't enough homes, aren't they? If breeding was banned
or at least regulated, more home would be available to shelter animals. Its
really a simple concept- even for you to understand.
>When will the zealots get THAT?
Probably when the morally bankrupt breeders understand there are too many
animals already-- we don't need any more.
>
> I've been doing shelter and rescue work since 1992
Sure you have... What did you do, adopt a few pedigreed dogs and sell them
to your customers?
and have owned more
> shelter/rescue/second hand pets than purebred purchased pets, so please
> - I am very far from "understanding".
Wow! That's a really large sample size that can certainly be extrapolatated
to the rest of the country....
> I actually think and understand
Yeah, you think and understand... you're just not very good at it: Here's
your thinking and understanding: 2 many animals + more animals = breed more
animals.
Janet Boss
wrote:
>
>
> Naa, I'd say its true. Its obvious that you're trying to defend breeders
> because most of your inept customers have pedigreed dogs.
>
My clients are a very mixed bag. Most of them are very dedicated to
doing everything possible for their dogs, regardless of heritage.
>
> Responsible
> > breeders
>
> ..is a contradiction in terms. A "responsible breeder" wouldn't breed more
> animals while millions of cats and dogs are killed every year because there
> aren't enough homes.
BZZZZT - apples and oranges. It's a true AR argument, but it doesn't
hold water.
> They most certainly are contributing to the overpopulation problem. They're
> breeding more cats and dogs while millions of cats and dogs are killed every
> year because there aren't enough homes, aren't they?
Wrong again! There aren't enough responsible homes for the millions of
irresponsibly bred and placed animals. By the very nature of the
definition, responsible breeders are not placing in irresponsible homes
nor are their animals winding up in shelters. Your argument that those
homes would/should adopt a shelter animal instead is without legs.
> If breeding was banned
> or at least regulated, more home would be available to shelter animals. Its
> really a simple concept- even for you to understand.
Incorrect! Any puppy is not necessarily the puppy someone wants.
Poorly bred and socialized animals are not what many are looking for.
Again, why should responsible owners have to clean up the mess made by
BYBs who never end?
>
> > I've been doing shelter and rescue work since 1992
>
>
> Sure you have... What did you do, adopt a few pedigreed dogs and sell them
> to your customers?
You're assinine.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
cshenk
Janet Boss wrote in
>> Snipping is appropriate in most forums, can't figure out why it
>> isn't here. Following a thread isn't that hard.
The problem is when the software used doesnt add the right markers so you
cant tell later easily who said what. Snipping *is* good or it gets too
unwieldy.
> Because the snipping is removing relavent parts of the
> conversation. I believe in snipping, but not when it refers to
> what I'm replying to.
This would be Charyl right?
>>> It isn't rhetoric and it isn't a fairy tale. If there weren't
>>> breeders pushing defective animals, the ones already here
>>> needing a home would have one. Why is that so hard to
>>> understand?
I cant tell who said this, doesnt matter. Fanatics think that way.
Fanatics like this had me leave the dog echo. If you said you had a puppy
everyone went 'sweet'. If you said your dog was having puppies, you were
attacked immediately. If you mentioned a responsible breeder, fanatics
attacked in droves.
I do NOT want to see this newsgroup devolve to the low level mentality of
that other one.
> are intact. Breeders add to it by breeding so-called pure breds
> that displace homes that could be one for the shelter animals.
> Responsible breeders are only a small portion of the
> overpopulation. Are you arguing responsible breeding or just
> breeding? What are you so mad about with this thread?
Some get upset at ANY mention of allowing a pet to breed. Me, I have rescue
pets all around and only 1 (long ago, I'm older, old age took him away) came
from a breeder yet was also a 'rescue' pet in a way. 'Failure to thrive'
Himalayan from a reputable breeder and 'free to a good home if fixed on
time'. Came with medical records and an estimate he'd not live to see 5
years of age and never should be bred.
(Roscoe lived to be 13, was never more than 6.5 lbs, but was healthy right
up til the last day when he silently passed on in his sleep).
>> responsible breeders, by definition. Keep cleaning up the
>> mess made by irresponsible "breeders" and it's a vicious cycle
>> of supporting THEM.
There is nothing wrong with proper breeding of a pedigree to keep it around.
While I *choose* to have rescue pets, I do not denigrate those who desire to
have a relatively pure-bred (home level, not show level often) pet.
> And how do regular people really know the difference?
They seldom do. This sets the fanatics off.
Phil P.
"cshenk" <csh...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:8Vedk.20047$%q.5...@newsfe24.lga...
> >>> It isn't rhetoric and it isn't a fairy tale. If there weren't
> >>> breeders pushing defective animals, the ones already here
> >>> needing a home would have one. Why is that so hard to
> >>> understand?
>
> I cant tell who said this, doesnt matter. Fanatics think that way.
Yeah- I'm a fanatic- I'm fanatical about preventing as many deaths as I can.
You need to take your head out of your ass and take a walk through a kill
shelter on kill day- then see if you still think there's nothing wrong with
breeding more animals.
Phil P.
> In article <%Mddk.323$Z11.212@trndny05>, "Phil P." <ph...@maxshouse.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Naa, I'd say its true. Its obvious that you're trying to defend breeders
> > because most of your inept customers have pedigreed dogs.
> >
>
> My clients are a very mixed bag. Most of them are very dedicated to
> doing everything possible for their dogs, regardless of heritage.
Yeah, like taking your class on shocking and chocking their dogs.... They're
a mixed bag, alright---
> >
> > Responsible
> > > breeders
> >
> > ..is a contradiction in terms. A "responsible breeder" wouldn't breed
more
> > animals while millions of cats and dogs are killed every year because
there
> > aren't enough homes.
>
> BZZZZT - apples and oranges. It's a true AR argument, but it doesn't
> hold water.
ROTFL! Its pure logic- that's why you don't understand. Lets try the math
again... 2 many pets + more pets, does not equal need more pets.
>
> > They most certainly are contributing to the overpopulation problem.
They're
> > breeding more cats and dogs while millions of cats and dogs are killed
every
> > year because there aren't enough homes, aren't they?
>
> Wrong again!
It doesn't look like you know right from wrong.
There aren't enough responsible homes for the millions of
> irresponsibly bred and placed animals.
Ya think? But there would be more homes available for shelter animals if
breeding was banned or regulated and taxed with the revenues going to
shelters. You don't need 100 breeders of a specific breed to "preserve" the
breed.
By the very nature of the
> definition, responsible breeders are not placing in irresponsible homes
> nor are their animals winding up in shelters.
Wow! You're really dense-- or you're an idiot. Its the not placing that's
the problem- its the BREEDING more animals.
Your argument that those
> homes would/should adopt a shelter animal instead is without legs.
I can see why you think so... its too logical for you to understand.
>
> > If breeding was banned
> > or at least regulated, more home would be available to shelter animals.
Its
> > really a simple concept- even for you to understand.
>
> Incorrect! Any puppy is not necessarily the puppy someone wants.
> Poorly bred and socialized animals are not what many are looking for.
"Poorly bred and socialized animals"? You really are a dimwit. There are
millions of animals to choose from in shelters.
> Again, why should responsible owners have to clean up the mess made by
> BYBs who never end?
> >
> > > I've been doing shelter and rescue work since 1992
> >
> >
> > Sure you have... What did you do, adopt a few pedigreed dogs and sell
them
> > to your customers?
>
> You're assinine.
You're not the rescue type.
cshenk
> "cshenk" wrote in message
> Yeah- I'm a fanatic- I'm fanatical about preventing as many deaths as I
> can.
> You need to take your head out of your ass and take a walk through a kill
> shelter on kill day- then see if you still think there's nothing wrong
> with
> breeding more animals.
Phil, this has been a nice group. I'm asking you to not try to change that.
I have never bred a pet. I have had only 1 'pedigree' pet and that was a
special circumstance from a reputable breeder who didnt believe in killing
the occasional 'mistakes' (and they ALL have them) but letting them free to
good homes to live out what time they have. I was advance warned Roscoe
would probably never make 5 years of age and be very expensive in vet bills.
If they could not find a home for him, they would have had to give him the
big silver needle but they found me. He was 'fixed' a little earlier than
normal because he was *not* to breed (genetics bad).
Some folks want pedigree animals. To assume they will just take anything
from the local pet pound is a mistake. The people you want to go after, is
the non-pedigree group with a heinz-57 they were too cheap to fix.
That said i am very impressed with my local K-9 organization. Sorry to be
slightly offtpic in a 'cat' group but I adopted a cat (Daisy- hard to place,
behavior related, took 18 months to get an offer) and a dog (Cash, beagle
mix with they think bull mastiff). Cash due to heartworms has heart damage
and was hard to place. He also due to the health problems could not be
fixed. It's the rare time you get a rescue dog who hasnt been fixed. They
have been emailing me and I've been passing back the Vet's info on him.
6SEP if all is well, he will be snipped. At that time he is presumed to be
just shy of 3 years old. He's been turned down twice already for snipping
earlier so we keep him closely held. His heart is not up to mating.