Re: Teaching cat tolerance
Jerry Howe - The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard <{}'; ~ ) >
"Tim Downie" <timdow...@obvious.yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7r3bmi...@mid.individual.net...
> We've taken on a 8 month old rescue dog, a lively border collie.
"Thank you for RESCUIN a shelter critter" like HOWE your
newfHOWEND fellHOWE dog lover pals prefers to sez <{}:~ ) >
> He's settling down well and is a super dog but clearly he'd never lived
> with a cat before. He's doing his best to rid our house of this "indoor
> squirrel".
You can EZily TRAIN your new doggy to LOVE your kat IF you simply
DO EVERY THING EXXXACTLY PRECISELY OPPOSITE of HOWE
your newfHOWEND fellHOWE dog lover pals recommend <{}:~ ( >
> Although I'm really a "dog person" I have to acknowledge that the cat has
> a right to live with us, if for no other reason than he was here first.
> ;-)
That's IRRELEVANT IMMATERIAL and INCONSEQUENTIAL <{}:~ ( >
> He's a smart dog who responds to commands when he isn't too distracted
You mean you don't know HOWE to EFFECTIVELY
handle raise an train your dog OR kat <{}:~ ( >
> but whenever he sees or hears the cat he get's terribly excited
> and ceased to be aware of anything else.
Here's ALL the INFORMATION YOU NEED to learn HOWE to
install ANY COMMAND as a Pavlovian CONditional REFLEX:
http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard
> With the aid of a stair gate we've created a "sanctuary area" for the cat
Ever hear of BARRIER FRUSTRATION SYNDROME?
Lockin your critters behind barriers (forced CON-TROLL) INCREASES
anXXXIHOWESNESS and TRIGGERS AGGRESSION <{}:~ ( >
We got dog an kat lovers here who'd got their DEAD KATS DEAD
and / or their dogs BLINDED by kat claws over not bein able to FORCE
CON-TROLL over their critters <{}:~ ( >
> but I think this is delaying the normal process of aclimatisation that
> we've experienced before with our dogs and cats.
But of curse~!
> I don't feel confident enough to remove it though as his reaction
> to the cat is just so strong.
Yeah; kinda a Catch-22 again, AIN'T IT <{}:~ ( >
> Any tips?
Naaah, so sorry, Tim; dog trainin AIN'T LUCK <{}:~ ( >
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing, Majestic
Grand Master Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES,
Horsey And Alcoholic / Psychotropic Anti-Psychotic Medications ABUSE
Wizard DON'T GIVE "TIPS" or "SUGGESTIONS" -- HE TEACHES people
all over the WHOWEL WILD WORLD HOWE to pupperly handle raise and
train ALL critters NEARLY INSTANTLY witHOWET touchin them using
EFFECTIVE NON PHYSICAL SCIENTIFIC and PSYCHOLOGICAL Pavlovian
and Ericksonian Techniques in your own FREE COPY of The Freakin Simply
Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual on
accHOWENT of:
The Methods, Principles And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change,
Or They'd Not Be Scientific
And Could Not Obtain
Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Safe Effective Results
For All Handler's And All Critters,
ALL OVER THE WHOWEL WILD WORLD,
NEARLY INSTANTLY,
As Taught In Your FREE Copy Of The Simply Amazing
Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual <{): ~ ) >
"Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVER LEARNING
THEORY model involves the USE OF PUNISHMENT.
Of curse, Skinner has never to my knowledge,
demonstrated HOWE we escape the phenomenon
that an expected reward not received is experienced
as a punishment and can produce extensive and
persistent aggression (Azrin et al, 1966)."
Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last Student Demonstrated At
UofOH Oxford, That Rehabilitation Of Hyperactive
Dogs Can Easily And Readily Be Done Using TLC.
Tender Loving Care Is At The Root Of The Scientific
Management Of Doggys. <{) ; ~ ) >
"...all the highest nervous activity, as it manifests
itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a continual
change of these three fundamental processes --
excitation, inhibition and disinhibition," Ivan P. Pavlov
"Postitive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement. IOW,
emotions, not outside rewards, are what
reinforces any behavior," Ivan Pavlov.
"All animals learn best through play." -- Konrad Lorenz
"It is NO WONDER that the marked changes in
deviant behavior of children can be achieved
through brief, simple educative routines with
their mothers which modify the mother's social
behaviors shaping the child (Whaler, 1966). Some
clinics have reported ELIMINATION ofthe need for
child THERAPY through changing the clinical emphasis
from clinical to parental HANDLING of the child
(Szrynski 1965).
A large number of cases improved sufficiently after
preliminary contact with parents that NO treatment
of children was required, and almost ALL cases
SHOWE a remarkably shortened period for therapy.
Quite severe cases of anorexia nervosa have been
treated in own to five months by simply REPLACING
the parents temporarily with EFFUSIVELY LOVING
SUBSTITUTES (Groen, 1966)."
> Tim
<{}';~ ) >
Jerry Howe - The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard <{}'; ~ ) >
"Tim Downie" <timdow...@obvious.yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7r3bmi...@mid.individual.net...
> We've taken on a 8 month old rescue dog, a lively border collie.
In article <7r3bmi...@mid.individual.net>,
"Tim Downie" <timdow...@obvious.yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> With the aid of a stair gate we've created a "sanctuary area" for the cat
>> but I think this is delaying the normal process of aclimatisation that
>> we've experienced before with our dogs and cats. I don't feel confident
>> enough to remove it though as his reaction to the cat is just so strong.
> Keep the gate up for the cat's peace of mind for now, whenever you can't
> supervise. Keep a LEASH on the dog when you can supervise, so you can
> guide and control his actions toward the cat. Teach the dog solid
> obedience. A down-stay goes a very long way, as does a recall (come when
> called). Almost anything can be dealt with if you have those 2 commands
> solid.
> --
> Janet Boss
> www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
>> Any tips?
>
>> Tim
janet got some EXXXPERT PROFESSIONAL DOG TRAININ ADVICE <{}';~ ) >
LIKE THIS:
"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction" --Janet Boss
----------------
AN LIKE THIS:
"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828...@mb-m18.aol.com...
He was next to me and I could see his neck
muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
Janet Boss
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1...@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916...@mb-m17.aol.com...
> > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > dog like a Lab.
An INSENSITIVE DOG???
> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
Do you think the citronella collar is CRUEL
cause the SMELL LINGERS after the dog's
been sprayed in the face and the dog won't
know HOWE COME IT was MACED?
janet CONtinues:
> > My dogs are not human children wearing fur- they are DOGS.
> > I don't have anything against electronic bark collars, but they
> > should be used in conjunction with actually working at training
> > your dog(s).
They're DUMB ANIMALS these MENTALLY ILL LYING
DOG ABUSERS HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER.
-----------------------
HOWEver, the only PROBLEM is, IT DON'T WORK~!
Here's a small EXXXAMPLE of janet's SUCCESS stories~!:
Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote
It is a shame that Muttley will probably be put
down (his appointment is next Wednesday)
Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote
<snip>
If I did not have to worry about my cat, I would
probably keep him, and I am certain I could avoid
any more dangerous episodes. I probably would
not have taken him to obedience classes at this time
if that was not such a difficult issue, and if people
here had not essentially shamed me into doing so.
Then he would only be a bratty dog with a mind of
his own, but he would not have been identified as
dangerous.
--------------------------
BWEEEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote
Hello everyone:
If you have followed some of my posts, you know
something about the ongoing story of Muttley, the
large GSD/Chow dog I have been trying to adopt
or place in a better home.
I will add a bit more history later in this post.
Last Tuesday, toward the end of Janet's obedience
class, Muttley and I had just finished fairly successfully
performing a sit/stay/come routine, and then he was
sitting by my side.
The final routine was to be a "down", which Muttley
has had some difficulty with, and frankly I have not
had the time to work with him much on that.
I was kneeling at his side, trying to hold his collar
while pushing his front legs down to the position,
while he resisted. Suddenly he lunged, knocking
me over onto the parking lot, and I lost grip of the
leash as I reflexively broke my fall.
Muttley took the opportunity to attack a young black
male Lab to my left, and it was a very brutal attack.
Janet and the instructors tried to gain control, and as
soon as I could get to my feet I grabbed the leash and
pulled him off.
That was the end of the class, and the other dog,
Bernie, was taken to an animal hospital for treatment.
When everyone had left, Janet counseled me about
what should be done about Muttley.
She said this was more than ordinary aggression,
and only intensive (and expensive) one on one
training would have any chance at working, and
in any case, he was not suited to group training.
She advised me that Muttley could be dangerous,
and she recommended that he be euthanized.
"They can't all be saved".
<snip>
--------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
SEE? SEE?? SEE???
HERE'S HOWE COME:
Here's janet's REAL LIFE IN PERSON "student" paulie:
#2 - 6/05/07
>> When I was training him under Janet's supervision I
>> was instructed to give it a ? firm yank as a correction.
> I advised you to use a prong collar, not give firm
> yanks on a chain choke collar. I hate the things.
>> She was able to get his attention with just a
>> quick tug, but I had to yank on it hard enough
>> to lift him off his feet to get him to respond.
>> Looking back now, I think it was based on his
>> fear, which he had for her (as an unknown),
>> but not for me (whom he had learned to trust).
> He wasn't afraid of me. He knew I was a confident trainer.
> Fear has no place in dog training, as I told you THEN.
> Janet.
It seems to me that applying stern corrections, by
popping a choker chain, prong collar, or whatever,
is a way to ensure compliance by instilling a fear
of further punishment.
Sure, if it is administered very consistently
by a confident trainer, the dog soon learns
to obey. There was no positive reinforcement,
so what remains is negative.
Also, I recall the time you were going to show me
how I could get Muttley to take his rawhide treat
from me without lunging for it. When you offered
it to him, he refused to take it. This IMHO is likely
a fear behavior.
Things have changed a lot since then, and I have
learned a lot, and Muttley has settled down quite
a bit. I probably still give him too much freedom
to think on his own, but that's just my way of
doing things, and that's probably not going to
change much. He may never win an obedience
medal, but I don't think he is dangerously out
of control, either.
Paul and Muttley
"I thought I was told that the way to get the dog to go
down was to make him sit and then step on the leash.
That was awkward and didn't seem to work.
I will confess that I only tried the "down" position
once or twice at home, and I also often used it
instead of "Off" when I wanted him to stop
jumping on me or elsewhere I didn't want him to be.
I had to give him corrections every few seconds,
and also just about kick him, to keep him at my
left side.
Muttley is really a very sweet and loving dog, but
he needs more socialization with other dogs. However,
it is very likely that I will have him put down in a week."
Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
"Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote
It is a shame that Muttley will probably be put
down (his appointment is next Wednesday),
-----------------------
SEE?
THAT'S quite a SUCCESS STORY, ain't it, paulie <{}: ~ ( >
WHO FORCED paulie to ABUSE HIS "RESCUE" dog Muttley?
HOWE COME did paulie's dog GO INSANE?
HERE'S HOWE COME:
Subject: Re: redirected aggression
Date: 4/11/07
"Janet Boss" <ja...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> wrote in message
news:janet-730AB8....@news.individual.net...
It seems I have been dealing with this a bit lately.
Dog to dog and dog to person,, with dogs who are
obviously overstimulated by what's in front of them.
What's in front of them varies from people at the door
to dogs in their path or directly in their face. The dogs
in question all have very poor self control.
I have dog(s) with not-so-great-natural self control,
so it's something we constantly work on. We don't
have redirected stuff going on, because we have
enough obedience to avoid it.
While I know that's the big answer for the dogs in
question as well, I'm curious what things people have
found useful to redirect/focus/gain attention from
drivey dogs or just very distracted of over-the-top dogs.
We're having success with my recommendations, but I'm
always open to something novel that may be the hot ticket.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
BWEEEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA~!~!~!
Subject: Muttley: Now a question of Life or Death
90 From: Sionnach
Date: Mon, Oct 9 2006
Email: "Sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com>
*I* was thanking the Deity that the NCR trail
was not my choice of hiking area today!!!!
Sorry, Paul, but the gloves are now off, because if I HAD
chosen the NCR trail today - rather than another local trail-
you would have been putting ***MY*** beloved dogs at
risk of serious injury or death. ***MY*** DOGS.
What the FUCKING HELL is **WRONG** with you???
Your dog, which you have repeatedly admitted you can't
control, just made a near-lethal unprovoked attack on
another dog in obedience class, and you TOOK HIM
OUT ON THE TRAILS WHERE THERE ARE OTHER
DOGS?????
You do that again, when my dogs are around, and he attacks
one of them, you won't have to worry about having him put
down - I will either break his spine or choke him to death
right then and there.
I'm dead fucking serious, Mr. Schoen.
----------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
> Paul and Muttley
> www.MuttleyDog.com
From: "Paul E. Schoen" pst...@smart.net
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009
Subject: Re: Marley and Me...
"Janet Boss" ja...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com
wrote in messagenews:janet-2DCFD6....@news.individual.net...
> In article 495f7433$0$26457$ecde5...@news.coretel.net,
> "Paul E. Schoen" <pst...@smart.net> wrote:
>> I do not need to take special precautions to keep him from choking on a
>> sock or gulping down a chicken bone
> These little slams just show how very little you know about dogs, or care
> to. Very sad indeed.
And your many slams of me and Muttley show how
little you know or care about either of us. The fact that
Muttley is alive today, and doing so well after getting
rid of the prong collar and forceful corrective training,
is a thorn in your foot.
You would have been happy to have seen Muttley
euthanized with the assumption that he was a bad,
aggressive, and dangerous dog. That would have
been like burying the evidence.
But in reality he only reacted with predictable redirected
aggression when he was subjected to continuous brutality
under your supervision and guidance. Your advice when I
had trouble controlling him was to administer even sharper
corrections on his prong collar and choker chain.
Obviously you think all dogs are the same and a "one
size fits all" training method will work if it is administered
forcefully enough.
I have had enough experience with dogs, and have read
enough, to be convinced that there are many innate traits
that must be considered in regard to training methods AND
expectations.
If you read the book that is the subject of this thread (I
just got a copy from the library yesterday), you will see
that the author originally had a dog, when he was a
youngster, who was very easily trained with almost no
effort, and this is what I remember about the dog I had
when I was in grade school.
<snip idiocy>
Perhaps a highly skilled and dedicated trainer could
have forced their dog into some form of obedience,
but it may have come at a high cost of stress on the
dog's natural tendencies to be hyperactive and willful.
I think it is a similar case with Muttley, although I do
not think he has the same depth of problematic behavior
that Marley had.
I am looking into "positive training", which you did
NOT offer, and perhaps we will have some better
results.
Honestly, there could not be any worse results than
those obtained by us in your classes, except perhaps
if I had not intervened and pulled Muttley off the other
dog in time to prevent him from killing him.
So, go ahead and complain about me reminding you of
your serious misadventures with your own dogs, and your
need to take special precautions and enforce constant
discipline to achieve a level of obedience and trust you
find comfortable and necessary.
But about the only thing you would find objectionable
about Muttley would be his continued leash pulling
and inconsistent response to standard obedience commands.
He has proven himself to be trustworthy and stable in
a wide variety of situations that your dogs may not handle
as well, because of the differences in their basic nature.
I don't think you understand that about dogs, and that
makes you a dangerous trainer.
Paul and Muttley
---------------------
SO, paulie, HOWE did janet FORCE YOU TO HURT YOUR DOG?
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
Tim Downie
"Jerry Howe - The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard <{}'; ~ ) >"
<Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Foren...@HotMail.Com>
wrote in message news:4b4c911a$0$4857$9a6e...@unlimited.newshosting.com...
> HOWEDY Tim,
>
> "Tim Downie" <timdow...@obvious.yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:7r3bmi...@mid.individual.net...
>> We've taken on a 8 month old rescue dog, a lively border collie.
>
> "Thank you for RESCUIN a shelter critter" like HOWE your
> newfHOWEND fellHOWE dog lover pals prefers to sez <{}:~ ) >
Umm... keep taking the meds Jerry.
Tim
Jerry Howe - The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard <{}'; ~ ) >
CONtinue takin the Kool-Aid~!
"sighthounds & siberians" <x...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:cu8pk553hargh4frv...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 09:12:52 -0500, Janet Boss
> <ja...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> wrote:
>
>>In article <7r3bmi...@mid.individual.net>,
>> "Tim Downie" <timdow...@obvious.yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>> With the aid of a stair gate we've created a "sanctuary area" for the
>>> cat
>>> but I think this is delaying the normal process of aclimatisation that
>>> we've
>>> experienced before with our dogs and cats. I don't feel confident
>>> enough to
>>> remove it though as his reaction to the cat is just so strong.
Naaah??
>> Keep the gate up for the cat's peace of mind for now, whenever you can't
>> supervise. Keep a LEASH on the dog when you can supervise, so you can
>> guide and control his actions toward the cat.
LIKE THIS:
"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction" --Janet Boss
----------------
>> Teach the dog solid obedience.
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
>> A down-stay goes a very long way,
THAT will require abHOWETa MONTH or MOORE of OBEDIENCE TRAININ.
>> as does a recall (come when called).
And THAT will require abHOWET TEN YEARS MOORE OBEDIENCE TRAININ.
>> Almost anything can be dealt with if you have those 2 commands solid.
It would take YEARS, IF EVER, to "train" a dog for OBEDIENCE to not attack
a kat like HOWE janet recommends. THAT'S HOWE COME I DON'T DO THAT.
> Absolutely keep the gate up - I've found it helpful for the dog and
> cat to be able to see each other and get used to each other while the
> cat is safe. For dogs that have never lived with cats, it's often
> just a novelty and that may wear off with a little time.
Yeah. When they run HOWETA kats to MURDER <{}:~( >
> Obedience commands are of course indispensable.
INDEED? So called OBEDIENCE COMMANDS AIN'T NEVER WORKED
for you in your own PRYOR EXXXPERIENCE MURDERIN innocent defenseless
dumb critters an LYIN abHOWET IT.
> I always teach "no kitty" to dogs, though -
INDEEDY~!
> it's a specific command that the dog never hears in other contexts,
Of curse not; otherWIZE they'd become DESENSITIZED to their TRAININ,
wouldn't they <{}:~ ( >
> and may be less likely to ignore.
You mean dependin on HOWE you LUCK is runnin <{}: ~ ( >
Here it abHOWET RUN HOWET:
From: sighthounds etc. <greypigho...@ncweb.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002
Subject: Re: Melinda/Sally
On Thu, 12 Dec 2002 16:45:21 GMT, Suja <spana...@scs.gmu.edu> wrote:
>Gwen Watson wrote:
>> The family is giving the dog up because apparently he killed the next
>> door neighbors cat. Out of respect to the next door neighbors these
>> people have chosen to find new home for their malamute. It is really very
>> sad story they have told. For one IMO it is the neighbors fault that
>> their cat got into Miko's yard and was killed.
>
> I don't get it. How is it the dog's fault that a furry critter that got
> into his yard got killed? If I were in these people's shoes, I would very
> politely request that the neighbors keep their animals off my property,
> but that's just me.
That's what I would do too. There have been a number of cats killed
here in our yard, by sighthounds or Siberians or a combination of the
above. They are apparently strays (our neighbor two doors down feeds
the stray cats, putting the food in the yard between us, what a good
idea). I don't like it at all, as we love cats and have indoor cats
(which our dogs are fine with), but I can't prevent it and it's not
our fault or our dogs' fault.
>> Though I can also understand the situation in some ways. Pretty rotten
>> deal. I also wasn't aware that Malamute rescue is so full. Seems as bad
>> as GSD and Lab rescue. Pretty sad.
> All the rescues are always full, Gwen. The problem with Malamute rescue
> isn't that there is an overwhelming number of dogs like there is with Labs
> and GSDs (271 as opposed to the thousands), but there are very few homes
> that are suitable for them. The local Mal rescue person was telling me
> that their rescue is basically run by 7 or 8 volunteers, and they end up
> turning down 1/2 to 2/3rds of the applicants. They have anywhere between
> 2 to 12 dogs in rescue at one time. They don't do adoption days (where
> the dogs are displayed in PetsMart or some such), because every single
> person who sees one of these dogs wants to go home with them without
> realizing what they're getting themselves into.
Same situation with Sibes, but even more people
want those pretty fluffy dogs with blue eyes.
Sally Hennessey
--------------
Tues,Apr 19 2005 6:54
Subject: Re: Introducing New Dog to Household Cats
sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com> wrote:
> I was going to ask how cat things were coming
> with Crow and Eclipse.
Not great! I had been just closing off the upstairs bedroom
(a baby gate with the door fixed ajar about six inches keeps
the dogs out better than you'd expect), but the cats like to
hide in the wall of the linen closet (gotta love these old
houses!) when they're nervous and Crow and Eclipse tore
apart the linen closet to try to get to them. That's when I
closed off the upstairs entirely. They're also a bad
influence on Cinder, who started out thinking of the cats as
dinner but who had learned to live with them in peace until
her sisters arrived. I think it's possible but, frankly,
improbable that they're eventually going to be safe with the
cats.
MALINDA.
----------------------------------------------
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
> (For example, my IG thinks his name is Teddyoff, but he knows it's not
> Nokitty.)
INDEED? An THAT'S HOWE COME IT DON'T MURDER DEAD KATS??
LIKE THIS:
From: lucyaa...@claque.net
Date: Tues, May 24 2005
sighthounds & siberians wrote:
> On 23 May 2005 TheAmazingPuppyWiz...@Mail.Com wrote:
> > HOWEDY racetrack silly,
> > sighthounds & siberians wrote:
> >> On 21 May 2005 dinglejingl... @yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >> <major snippage>
> >> I'm neither a trainer nor an expert,
>
> > RIGHT. But you ARE a mentally ill lying
> > dog abusing punk thug coward and president
> > of the GH RESCUE that MURDERS 66% of their
> > RESCUE dogs.
>
> Are you reading this, Lucy? The above is a flat-out lie.
From:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.pets.dogs.behavior/msg/b51f2b...
<<It probably wouldn't hurt, and a dose of reality
might be helpful, too. I'm president of the board
of our local shelter. The new board has almost
succeeded in pulling the APL out of financial ruin,
and very soon now we'll be able to turn our attention
to making improvements in our shelter, increasing
adoptions, etc. We are in the largest county in our
state, and it's also one of the poorest. We take in
around 3,000 animals a year and euthanize two-
thirds of them.>>
Nope. No lie. Two thirds=66%.
Actually, closer to 67%.
IS that really what "rescue" means, Sally?
Killing 2 out of every 3 dogs one "rescues"?
Geeez!
> Does that matter to you at all, or is it OK for Jerry to make
> up whatever shit he wants to 'support' his lunatic claims?
What exactly was "made up" by Jerry, then?
The part about your "mental illness"? Why, you
call him "lunatic", so you're both even on that.
Though I still can't help wondering how "sane"
someone who loves dogs can be when running
a shelter that puts down two thirds of the dogs
it "rescues".
> Mustang Sally (disgusted)
Lucy (likewise)
----------------------
SEE?
Here's a few of racetrack silly's SUCCESSES:
"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness," mustang sally.
SEE?
"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me.
I volunteered as assistant to the euthanasia
tech at our local shelter for a while, and
I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.
This however has nothing at all to do with
responsible breeders, because responsible
breeders don't contribute to that problem,"
Mustang Sally.
SEE?
From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2005
Subject: Re: my brother's dog
Assuming you could have found someone who knew
what they were doing. When the problems with Justy
and Tasha started, we contacted everyone we could
think of, including the Dal rescue people and trainers.
There weren't any behaviorists around, but someone,
I don't remember who, referred us to one in another
state who did phone consultations!
Of course, that was of limited value. In retrospect,
I still think that situation was unsalvageable. But
we sure learned a lot about multi-dog interactions,
dog aggression and managing less severe fighting
situations.
It was months before hearing a dog growl
didn't make my heartbeat race.
Mustang Sally
----------------
SEE??
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001
Subject: Re: shock collars
Sally Hennessey <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:b8m1dtsv6vuiblo63...@4ax.com...
Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-
righteous, this post shows and absence of knowledge
in the differences in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps
a lack of ability to perceive same.
The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to
whom corrections and discomfort, even pain, were
unimportant does not mean that such dogs do not exist.
What it means is that you don't know as much about
dogs as you think you do, and you surely don't know
a damn thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.
I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with
one of her housemates; that dog had no fear or
anything, and pain incurred during a fight meant
nothing to her.
I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that
you, Alison, continue to say things to people such as
what you said to Theresa about causing her dog to
suffer (at least I guess that's what you meant by
"you cause your dog suffers" - - must be the King's
English you guys talk about over there) means that
you are an ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person
who is not worth further notice.
Sally Hennessey
-----------------------
SEE?
"Sally Hennessey" <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:54nuetsqgkhp26qqv...@4ax.com...
Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.
I'm starting to see some similarities here.
Sally Hennessey
---------------
SEE?
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
Subject: remediating behavioral problems
1From: cate
Date: Tues, Jul 24 2001
Email: orson14...@yahoo.com (cate)
Groups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
Some of you may remember that I ended up with my brother's 4 year-old
cat last week, because my brother is mentally ill and unable to care
for her anymore. I don't know if he ever actively abused her, but she
was certainly at least periodically neglected and ignored. She herself
has some behavioral issues, likely due to her former environment. So I
have a big dilemma, and I'd like some input.
I admit right off the bat this big, black 14-pound bruiser of a cat
scares the hell out of me. One example of her issues is that she'll
come running to me upon first seeing me, wind around my legs--and
alternate between meowing and *hissing.* Jasper HISSES at me
constantly! (And don't get me wrong--this cat LOVES me. Rubs against
me, makes bread when I'm near, meows to answer me when I call her.)
Sometimes it's obvious that she's pissed (like if I touch her belly),
but sometimes it's this crazy, mixed-signal thing.
And sometimes it's from clear across the room, out of nowhere, even
if I've been sitting there for 10 minutes without incident. I don't
know what to do about it, because I don't know how to read a cat who's
both happy and angry at once.
Or maybe I'm reading it wrong. Maybe her hissing is part of
her happy-cat repertoire as well as being part of her angry-cat
repertoire. Has anyone ever heard of that?
So obviously, I'm looking for ways to help this cat overcome her
problems. I'm wondering if clicker training might be an option. Has
anyone here ever used clicker training or just plain vanilla positive
reinforcement programs to help a cat overcome behavioral problems?
There are always drugs, but if the problems are as deep-seated as I
suspect, I doubt the efficacy of drugs for this situation. Plus, I
feel drugs would just mask the problem by artificially making her not
care about all the things that scare her/piss her off.
My husband is dead set against keeping her. I would like to keep her,
because I think it's my duty, and because she deserves a good home.
Furthermore, I seriously doubt Jasper would be considered adoptable by
the general public. I'm not too concerned about that, as I hope it
will work out that we can keep her, but I must consider it at least in
the back of my mind.
I'm sorry this is so long. Thank you if you've read this far. I'm just
looking for some ideas. I've never had a cat that seemed so mixed up,
and I really need some advice.
Cate
14From: Cate
Date: Thurs, Apr 10 2003 11:30 am
Email: "Cate" <orson14...@yahoo.com>
Groups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
"jeff" <upsets...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e0d5bcf9.03041...@posting.google.com...
> Ok, I'm really struggling to find some kind of a
> solution here. I'm sharing my home with a 14 month
> old German Shepherd and two adult, de-clawed cats
> (all males) and we're having some problems.
I have similar problems. I can't tell you how to train
your animals to not bother each other, or I would've
been able to train my dog not to chase my two cats and
my two cats not to hide from him so much that no training
opportunities present themselves. But I can give you animal
management tips.
My 4 year-old lab is crated every night in the office
(across from our bedroom) because it's the only time
of day the cats feel comfortable roaming freely (ie.,
at all).
He is not crated during the day because he's reliably
housebroken and he never destroys anything in the house.
If your dog is housebroken, you should try leaving your
dog uncrated during the day to see what happens. If he's
not destroying stuff in the house and he's housebroken,
I'm not sure why he needs to be confined in a crate.
He should definitely not be crated both at night and
during the day. That's way too much time.
So, the cats end up staying on
> the kitchen table, on top of the fridge, or the
> entertainment center. Because they can't get on
> the ground, I keep their food and water on the
> kitchen table. This is becoming unacceptable.
Find a space off the floor that is acceptable to you.
Even if the dog didn't eat the cat food (and he probably
would), it's not fair to the cats to put their food on
the floor where they must fear being accosted at meal time.
Cats get sick pretty quickly from not eating, so you should do
your best not to put them in a situation where they're afraid
to eat. Try the food and water on top of the fridge--that's what
many people with cats and dogs do.
I guess another option is to have the
> food, water, and little box somewhere that the cats can get
> to it, but the dog can't. Anyone have an idea as to how to
> accomplish this trick?
My cat's food and litter is in the basement. When we first
bought our 100 year-old house, we didn't want to cut the
original basement door to put a cat door in it (and it
didn't occur to use to get a cheap replacement door and
cut that), so we put a security-type chain on the door.
When the chain is on, the door opens only wide enough so
the cat can pass through. If I had it to do over again,
I get several of these for the house:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?siteid=1&pCatI...
It's a semicircular cutout that goes in the bottom of a door.
Shaped like the mouseholes on Tom & Jerry and similar cartoons.
You could put one on the door of a closet that contained the
litterbox, and another on the door of a room where only the
cats are allowed. Whatever works for you and lets your cats
have peace while the animals are trying to work out their
differences.
If you must put the litterbox where the dog has access, turn
the box toward the wall and leave only a few inches between
the box and the wall. Cats are agile and will get into the
opening, and the dog will be prevented from snacking on the
cat deposits or bothering the cats while they're inside.
Good luck.
Cate
----------------------------
From: Cate
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2003 5:26 pm
Email: "Cate" <orson14...@yahoo.com>
Groups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
"Melinda Shore" <s...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:bi5sc3$o42$1...@panix2.panix.com...
> Sure thing. I tend to pick up the best information on
> what's going on from the people down at the local high-end
> feed shop than I do anywhere else.
Exactly. When we first got Orson and were absolutely clueless,
we asked our questions there first. That's how we found obedience
and agility instructors, and I think that's who recommended our vet.
Which is, I suppose,
> another reason to shop at a locally-owned place rather than
> a national chain store that hires apathetic, minimum-wage
> teenagers.
And the bags of free biscuits they give away with every purchase
doesn't hurt either. Nor does the fact that when their floor bins get
light from dogs grazing, owners don't get charged for it. And when
Orson lifted his leg in there, to my speechless shock and embarassment
(only time he's ever peed inside), they cheerily told me he wasn't the
first, and he won't be the last.
I miss that place. The closest thing to me is a Pet Valu.
They don't know squat.
Cate
---------------------
Hey lynne? Didn't you just read the monks book?
BWEEEAAHAHHAHAAAAA!!!
> This is NOT good...
SHORE it is, lynne. "IT'S ALL GOOD":
"I wouldn't do anything because Friday would correct him more
appropriately than I ever could. I'd separate them or watch them
closely. If I can catch them at it before the behaviour itself becomes
rewarding, I use my marker word. If I can catch them even earlier
(when the intent to commit misbehaviour is forming in their evil
minds), distraction works. The latter works better than the former
when it comes to their protecting me from the mailman. Management,
redirection, distraction, aversives, Paula's socks, combinations
thereof - it's all good," matt. Rocky's my epileptic dog.
> --
> Lynne
You just need some trainin advice:
LIKE THIS:
"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:
"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue
From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20
ginge...@my-deja.com wrote:
> How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.
Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.
"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works
better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
this situation.
Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can
take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that
time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
whatever other reward system was being used."
8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong
works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
why you have the dog muzzled).
If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.
This is important - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."
"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.
And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.
Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."
Lynn K.
----------------
"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.
Should I have refused to groom them?
Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."
Lynn K.
----------------
Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
<news:04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@TeraNews>...
Lynn, looks like he got you there if these
quotes are true.
In the posts below you take responsibility for
making those calls.
In your post above, you state you do not
make those calls.
Which one is it?
WORDS OF WISDOM
From Our Own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg Of Lithium And 50 mg Of Zoloft
EVERY DAY
For Twenty Years
I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM
"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-
depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50
mg of Zoloft every day.
I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to
learn more, while happily sharing pertinent
information I have learned. But if I were ever
to post such sh*t, I would hope that every other
reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."
"Community is an evolutionary thing that we
earn the right to participate in by observing
the easily understood rules and contributing
to in constructive ways."
"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."
Lynn K.
------------------------------���-----------
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Jerry Howe - The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard <{}'; ~ ) >
Keep takin the Kool-Aid~!
"Alison" <ali...@XYZallofus2.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7r3qcd...@mid.individual.net...
>
> "Tim Downie" <timdow...@obvious.yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:7r3lj7...@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> "> I've been trying some controlled introduction today (on a leash) but
>> we haven't mastered the "stay" command yet which is undoubtably part of
>> the problem. Clearly getting on top of that is a priority. Thanks for
>> your comments.
>>
>> Tim>>
>
> Hi Tim,
> I would practise the command away from the cat first uisng a
> reward.
INDEED??
"Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVER LEARNING THEORY
model involves the USE OF PUNISHMENT. Of curse,
Skinner has never to my knowledge, demonstrated
HOWE we escape the phenomenon that an expected
reward not received is experienced as a punishment
and can produce extensive and persistent aggression
(Azrin et al, 1966)."
> I use a clicker when introducing new pets to each other.
You mean you offer and withHOWELD bribes to FORCE CON-TROLL.
> I click and treat when the dog (or cat!) looks away from the new pet.
So called clicker trainin INCREASES anXXXIHOWESNESS and CAUSES
temperament and behavior problelms like hyperactivity and FOOD AGGRESSION
<{}:~ ( >
> I first click for the slightest glance away.
That so?
> You have to be quick with the clicker.
INDEED?
> If you've not used a clicker before you can read more about it on this
> website.
> http://www.clickertraining.com/
> Alison
That's EXXXCELLENT advice, AIN'T IT, alison given the FACT that karen
pryor MURDERED her own DEAD KAT on accHOWENTA she couldn't
clicker train IT not to shit and piss in her stovetop; gary wilcox of M.I.T.
impressed professor "SCRUFF SHAKE" dermer with his use of delayed
punishment when his clicker trainin FAILS; shirley chong uses the pronged
spiked pinch choke and shock collar when her crapHOWES clicker method
sits the bed.
See lying frosty dahl's "clicker project fizzles."
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
Jerry Howe - The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard <{}'; ~ ) >
"Tim Downie" <timdow...@obvious.yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7r3bmi...@mid.individual.net...
> We've taken on a 8 month old rescue dog, a lively border collie.
>
> He's settling down well and is a super dog but clearly he'd never lived
> with a cat before. He's doing his best to rid our house of this "indoor
> squirrel".
>
> Although I'm really a "dog person" I have to acknowledge that the cat has
> a right to live with us, if for no other reason than he was here first.
> ;-)
>
> He's a smart dog who responds to commands when he isn't too distracted but
> whenever he sees or hears the cat he get's terribly excited and ceased to
> be aware of anything else.
>
> With the aid of a stair gate we've created a "sanctuary area" for the cat
> but I think this is delaying the normal process of aclimatisation that
> we've experienced before with our dogs and cats. I don't feel confident
> enough to remove it though as his reaction to the cat is just so strong.
>
> Any tips?
ONLY LIARS, DOG ABUSERS, COWARDS and ACTIVE ACUTE
CHRONIC LIFE-LONG INCURABLE Malignant MaliciHOWES
MENTAL CASES post their LIES IDIOCY INSANITY and ABUSE
here on The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing,
Majestic Grand Master Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret,
Monkey, SpHOWES, Horsey And Alcoholic / Psychotropic Anti-
Psychotic Medications ABUSE Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End
Training Method Manual Forums And Human And Animal Behavior
Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory Archives and IGNORE
the POSTED CASE HISTORIES of your fellHOWE MENTALLY
ILL PALS who likeWIZE PREFER to JERK CHOKE SHOCK
BRIBE CRATE INTIMIDATE SURGICALLY SEXUALLY MUTILATE
an MURDER their own innocent defenseless dumb critters JUST
LIKE HOWE you just done SEEN FOR YOURSELF <{}';~ ) >
> Tim
BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!
IDIOT <{}:~ ( >