It's not him

[Christina Websell]

When I fry minced meat I always drain the fat off into a mug. It sets
overnight and somehow when I get there is evidence of claws in the fat
trying to get it out.
Boyfie claims it is absolutely, no way in the world himself. Like he would
ever do such a thing.
He claims mice have done it while he was asleep. Yeah..

Tweed

[jmcquown]

As a curious cook I must ask why don't you put it in the refrigerator?

Jill

[JJ]

"Christina Websell" <spam...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:b023j0...@mid.individual.net...

You know how on TV police detectives make casts of footprints and then
compare them to the suspect's shoes? Have you tried making a plaster cast of
the claws in the fat and then comparing them to Boyfie's? You know, these
suspects don't always tell the truth right away, but when confronted with
evidence...

Jay

[EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)]

Because she's in the UK. (Only Americans refrigerate EVERYTHING,
whether it's required or not - hence our gigantic, power-hogging
refrigerators.) Even butter does not require refrigeration unless you
live where it melts at room temperature. Jams and jellies exist quite
happily at room temperature (unless you keep them around so long they
get mouldy), and peanut butter does quite well in any kitchen cupboard.

[Christina Websell]

"JJ" <dmr...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:kngm8r$782$1...@dont-email.me...

aw, he admits it immediately. It *was* him that clawed the fat in the mug.
Not mice.

[Christina Websell]

"jmcquown" <j_mc...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:b023se...@mid.individual.net...

I do, the next day but I leave it out overnight to cool & set, if that makes
sense. I don't put hot fat in the fridge.

[JJ]

"Christina Websell" <spam...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote in message

news:b026fg...@mid.individual.net...

I KNEW I should have been a detective... I learned so much in my youth
watching "Columbo" and then CSI...

Jay

[jmcquown]

I understand the reasoning, but it should be covered nontheless.

Jill

[jmcquown]

On 5/21/2013 5:08 PM, EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:
>
>
> jmcquown wrote:
>> On 5/21/2013 4:26 PM, Christina Websell wrote:
>>> When I fry minced meat I always drain the fat off into a mug. It sets
>>> overnight and somehow when I get there is evidence of claws in the fat
>>> trying to get it out.
>>> Boyfie claims it is absolutely, no way in the world himself. Like he
>>> would
>>> ever do such a thing.
>>> He claims mice have done it while he was asleep. Yeah..
>>>
>>> Tweed
>>>
>> As a curious cook I must ask why don't you put it in the refrigerator?
>>
>> Jill
>>
>
> Because she's in the UK. (Only Americans refrigerate EVERYTHING,
> whether it's required or not

Don't be silly. They do use refrigerators in the UK, you know. This
isn't the 1900's. There's nothing preventing the mug from being
*covered* before the fat sets and it is put away.

Jill

[Christina Websell]

"jmcquown" <j_mc...@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:b02a00...@mid.individual.net...

Why? A mug of rapidly cooling fat will be safe here overnight, it's not
going to poison you the next day by the time you get it into the fridge, is
it?

[MaryL]

"Christina Websell" wrote in message
news:b023j0...@mid.individual.net...

~~~~~~~~
It sounds like you have gremlins. Surely, Boyfie is innocent. :o)

MaryL (as instructed by Holly and Duffy)

[Christina Websell]

"MaryL" <stan...@invalid.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b02cej...@mid.individual.net...

Hmmmm, it's possible. Gremlins can leave claw marks on stuff while letting
innocent boycats get the blame.

[Christina Websell]

"Christina Websell" <spam...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote in message

news:b02ekp...@mid.individual.net...

He did do it. Every time I save fat for frying, overnight, he gets his
claws into it.

[Takayuki]

Oh, whenever I have grease, I've been pouring it off into the garbage - is
there something else I could do with it though, like maybe refuel the
lawnmower? Make toads in a hole?

BTW, Boyfriend's story reminds me of the Grimm story:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_and_Mouse_in_Partnership

[JJ]

"Christina Websell" <spam...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote in message

news:b02i04...@mid.individual.net...

But you can't convict him without proof. I suggest putting some red dye into
the fat, and then, in the morning, there will probably be a red trail of
footsteps leading away from the fat. If it leads to Boyfie -- well, bingo,
you jail him. But if it leads to the mice or the gremlins (assuming you have
both, as Boyfie, Holly and Duffy have testified) then he's in the clear.

Jay

[jmcquown]

No, it won't poison you. Of course I've no idea what sort of critters
might get into your house. I'd cover it simply to make sure no bugs or
anything else got into it. But then again, I don't save drippings from
minced beef.

Jill

[EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)]

Of course they USE them - just not the blatant OVERUSE you find in the
U.S.!

[Christina Websell]

"jmcquown" <j_mc...@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:b02nv2...@mid.individual.net...

Well, we have different critters and bugs here and I have assessed that is
(usually) safe to cool it overnight.

> But then again, I don't save drippings from
> minced beef.

Wow, that sounds kind of snarky. I save it because I can make wonderful fat
balls by re-melting it and adding oatmeal, canary seed, chopped raisins etc
for the birdies.
You can use one of those round thingies you used to get with your washing
powder as a mould - you have to cut it in half horizontally, of course.

Anyway, Boyfie was proved guilty of dipping his claws in the fat ;-)

Tweed

[Christina Websell]

"JJ" <dmr...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:knh3s5$ahe$1...@dont-email.me...

Aw, I don't really mind. He can be dreadfully sneaky about getting up on
the kitchen worktops, he usually waits until I go upstairs and I hear him
jump down when I come downstairs again. Which suggests he *knows* that he
shouldn't.

I pretend I didn't know he did it, and he pretends he didn't do it.
That's the best thing..

Tweed

[jmcquown]

On 5/22/2013 5:07 PM, Christina Websell wrote:
> "jmcquown" <j_mc...@comcast.net> wrote in message

> news:b02nv2...@mid.individual.net...

> > But then again, I don't save drippings from
>> minced beef.
>
>
> Wow, that sounds kind of snarky.

I certainly didn't intend it to sound snarky. I have a large covered
coffee can I put drippings/fat into and it gets stored in the freezer
until it's time to dispose of it. The small amount added each time
doesn't affect the freezer temp at all.

I save it because I can make wonderful fat
> balls by re-melting it and adding oatmeal, canary seed, chopped raisins etc
> for the birdies.

Yes, I feed the birds a fat/suet/seed mixture in the winter. Just not
this time of year when natural food is abundant. It doesn't stop the
birds from visiting to take a dip in the bath. :)

> You can use one of those round thingies you used to get with your washing
> powder as a mould - you have to cut it in half horizontally, of course.
>

Sorry, I don't know what round thing you're talking about. I use liquid
detergent.

> Anyway, Boyfie was proved guilty of dipping his claws in the fat ;-)
>
> Tweed
>

Naturally, we knew that. :)

Jill

[jmcquown]

I really don't know what you mean by "overuse". How can one over use a
refrigerator?

Jill

[Christina Websell]

"Takayuki" <Takay...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:gk3op89jp8i6evkle...@4ax.com...

> On Tue, 21 May 2013 21:26:09 +0100, "Christina Websell"
> <spam...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>When I fry minced meat I always drain the fat off into a mug. It sets
>>overnight and somehow when I get there is evidence of claws in the fat
>>trying to get it out.
>>Boyfie claims it is absolutely, no way in the world himself. Like he
>>would
>>ever do such a thing.
>>He claims mice have done it while he was asleep. Yeah..
>
> Oh, whenever I have grease, I've been pouring it off into the garbage - is
> there something else I could do with it though, like maybe refuel the
> lawnmower? Make toads in a hole?

No, you cannot refuel your lawnmower with it, but you can use it to make
toad in the hole. More importantly it makes fat balls for the birds.
Fat balls are great in the winter, but even at this time of year it helps
small birds as they are rushing around getting insects and stuff for their
babies 18/24.
A quick snack on a fat ball will revitalise a blue tit parent.

[Bastette]

I think refrigerators in the UK are much smaller. At least, according to a
friend of mine from California who lived in London for a few years, the
ones in London are pretty small - about the size of a wet bar fridge in a
hotel room.

I would be OK with that, but I'm really big on *freezing* things so it
would be hard to adjust to a small freezer.

--
Joyce

What business is it of the state how consenting adults choose to pair
off, share expenses and eventually stop having sex with each other?
-- Bill Maher

[Bastette]

The red dye thing is funny, but if you saw red paw prints on your floor
you'd probably have a heart attack!

[Bastette]

I think she means that our refrigerators are so much larger than theirs
that we use a lot more energy to keep them cold. There's some validity to
that, but our climate varies a lot more throughout the country than the
UK does. (I *think*... not that I've been there... but it's much smaller,
so how could it be as varied as the continental US?) So in the very hot
regions of the US, I think it's justified.

I know Americans are neurotic about germs, but I'm an order of magnitude
*more* neurotic than that. It's a downright phobia. I don't mean that I
won't touch other people's hands without sanitizing my own. I don't worry
about catching colds. But I do worry about unfriendly bacteria growing in
my food. I've been extremely ill from food poisoning, so I go the extra
mile to prevent it. Even if that entire extra mile is not at all necessary
in reality.

[Joy]

"Bastette" <bastX...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:knjimp$uf4$2...@dont-email.me...

I freeze things a lot, too. I have a full-sized freezer in my garage, and
still use my refrigerator freezer.

Joy

[jmcquown]

On 5/22/2013 7:45 PM, Joy wrote:
> "Bastette" <bastX...@sonic.net> wrote in message
> news:knjimp$uf4$2...@dont-email.me...
>> "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote:
>>
>>> Of course they USE them - just not the blatant OVERUSE you find in the
>>> U.S.!
>>
>> I think refrigerators in the UK are much smaller. At least, according to a
>> friend of mine from California who lived in London for a few years, the
>> ones in London are pretty small - about the size of a wet bar fridge in a
>> hotel room.
>>
>> I would be OK with that, but I'm really big on *freezing* things so it
>> would be hard to adjust to a small freezer.
>>
>> --
>> Joyce
>>

> I freeze things a lot, too. I have a full-sized freezer in my garage, and
> still use my refrigerator freezer.
>
> Joy
>

Yes, I have a separate (not very large) freezer in the garage. When I
cook I tend to cook for about 4 people (!) so I often have leftovers.
It's great to have a freezer for quick meal when I don't feel like
cooking. I also put frequently used items like cornmeal and flour in
the freezer attached to the fridge to keep bugs from getting into it.

I never thought I was "over-using" my refrigerator. I routinely store
milk, butter, eggs and cheese in the fridge. And some condiments. I
don't think that classifies as "overuse". Sure, it could be smaller.
When this one dies I'll get a smaller refrigerator. I just don't think
of it as over-using.

Jill

[Joy]

"jmcquown" <j_mc...@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:b054gs...@mid.individual.net...

I don't either.

Joy

[Christina Websell]

"Bastette" <bastX...@sonic.net> wrote in message

news:knjiq6$uf4$3...@dont-email.me...

Not so. I know very well about how norty he can be. He thinks I don't know
what he does but I do.
I watch him carefully every day, and I stay up nights when he's doing rat
patrol in case he encounters a fox.
Boyfie is very able to shoot up a tree if he sees a fox. He can get there in
2 seconds. However I prefer to keep him in overnight.
Some foxes are fine with cats and some will catch them for their cubs if
they aren't savvy enough to avoid them.
Boyfie takes the sensible option - either run for the house or get up a
tree.
Usually he runs for the house and says "Phew, just missed a fox and was
about to kill him my own self but decided not to."
Tweed

[EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)]

By refrigerating all the stuff that does not REQUIRE refrigeration, as
we do in the U.S. (Peanut-butter? I ask you!)

[Bastette]

"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote:

> jmcquown wrote:

>> I really don't know what you mean by "overuse". How can one over use a
>> refrigerator?

> By refrigerating all the stuff that does not REQUIRE refrigeration, as
> we do in the U.S. (Peanut-butter? I ask you!)

OK, I have to admit that I do refrigerate peanut butter for a while when
it's new. But hear me out: The reason is that otherwise, the oil separates
and I have to stir it all over again. When the jar is full, it's hard to
stir the contents without making a big mess (spilling/losing a lot of the
oil, which I'm going to miss when I get further down in the jar). In the
fridge the oil is more solid and doesn't separate.

Once the jar is about 2/3 empty, there's no need to refrigerate it because
then I can stir it more easily. I must say that it tastes a lot better at
room temperature.

If they can sell a plastic bag of potato chips (crisps) that is mostly
air inside - which they do to make it look like there's more inside than
there really is - why can't they sell peanut butter in a larger glass
jar and just not fill it all the way? More room for stirring!

--
Joyce

I care not for a man's religion whose dog and cat are not the better
for it. -- Abraham Lincoln

[Bastette]

The Other Guy wrote:

> On Thu, 23 May 2013 11:58:09 -0700, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
> <evg...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>>By refrigerating all the stuff that does not REQUIRE refrigeration, as
>>we do in the U.S. (Peanut-butter? I ask you!)

> I think the main reason for large fridges in the U.S. is we cook
> WAY too much, then save it for leftovers.

But that's a much more efficient way to cook! I'd rather cook once or
twice a week, and eat leftovers on the other days, than have to cook
every night.

I would probably freeze the leftovers in meal-sized containers.

[jmcquown]

I buy all natural PB (the only ingredients are peanuts and salt). Since
it doesn't contain any stabilizers the oil tends to separate and rise to
the top. Refrigeration isn't *necessary*. But some people are bothered
by having to stir it (not me). If you refrigerate it the separation
doesn't occur.

Other than dairy items I don't refrigerate every little thing. When I
asked Tweed why she didn't refrigerate the drippings I was thinking more
in terms of critters getting at it. In the Southern US bugs can be an
an issue.

Jill

[jmcquown]

On 5/23/2013 3:52 PM, Bastette wrote:
> The Other Guy wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 23 May 2013 11:58:09 -0700, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
> > <evg...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >>By refrigerating all the stuff that does not REQUIRE refrigeration, as
> >>we do in the U.S. (Peanut-butter? I ask you!)
>
> > I think the main reason for large fridges in the U.S. is we cook
> > WAY too much, then save it for leftovers.
>
> But that's a much more efficient way to cook! I'd rather cook once or
> twice a week, and eat leftovers on the other days, than have to cook
> every night.
>

Exactly! I find it difficult to cook for *one* person. I wouldn't have
any idea how to cook spaghetti sauce (for example) for ONE.

> I would probably freeze the leftovers in meal-sized containers.
>

I do that all the time, Joyce. I portion out entire meals and put them
in the freezer. It's great for those days when I just don't feel like
cooking. I have these divided plates and love them:

http://www.amazon.com/MICROWAVE-DIVIDED-PLATES-WITH-VENTED/dp/B0033XTEEO

To address the issue of too-large refrigerators, I intend to downsize
when this one dies. I didn't buy this refrigerator, my parents did. I
don't know why they thought they needed such a large refrigerator. I
certainly don't. But I won't give up my separate freezer. I don't live
in an area conducive to grocery shopping every day or even every week.
It's a 20 mile jaunt.

Jill

[MLB]

If it is "food" I refrigerate or freeze it. I even refrigerate potato
chips and cookies. It helps them stay fresh longer IMHO. MLB

[Jack Campin]

> How can one over use a refrigerator?

Put avocados or bananas in it.

Or any food that tastes better when left at room temperature, like
most cheese.

Or use it for eggs. Nobody takes so long to get round to eating
an egg that refrigerating it makes any difference. It just means
they take more energy to cook and are more likely to break on
boiling.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07800 739 557 <http://www.campin.me.uk> Twitter: JackCampin

[jmcquown]

On 5/23/2013 9:02 PM, Jack Campin wrote:
>> How can one over use a refrigerator?
>
> Put avocados or bananas in it.
>

Never! Nor tomatoes.

> Or any food that tastes better when left at room temperature, like
> most cheese.
>

Depends on the cheese. I'm not fond of mold unless I specifically
bought moldy (bleu) cheese.

> Or use it for eggs. Nobody takes so long to get round to eating
> an egg that refrigerating it makes any difference.

Nobody? Heh. I guess you eat eggs every day. I don't.

> It just means
> they take more energy to cook and are more likely to break on
> boiling.
>

Actually, there is a difference between the way eggs are
handled/processed in the UK/EU and in the US. Commercially produced
eggs in the US do require refrigeration. Something to do with the
washing process.

Jill

[Cheryl]

On 5/21/2013 5:08 PM, EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:
>
> Because she's in the UK. (Only Americans refrigerate EVERYTHING,

> whether it's required or not - hence our gigantic, power-hogging
> refrigerators.) Even butter does not require refrigeration unless you
> live where it melts at room temperature. Jams and jellies exist quite
> happily at room temperature (unless you keep them around so long they
> get mouldy), and peanut butter does quite well in any kitchen cupboard.

I don't refrigerate the stick of butter I have for use. I like it that
way. It does tend to get too soft in the summer but it's never gotten
rancid. Of course my butter dish is covered.

--
CAPSLOCK�Preventing Login Since 1980.

[Cheryl]

On 5/22/2013 7:09 PM, Bastette wrote:

> I know Americans are neurotic about germs, but I'm an order of magnitude
> *more* neurotic than that. It's a downright phobia. I don't mean that I
> won't touch other people's hands without sanitizing my own. I don't worry
> about catching colds. But I do worry about unfriendly bacteria growing in
> my food. I've been extremely ill from food poisoning, so I go the extra
> mile to prevent it. Even if that entire extra mile is not at all necessary
> in reality.

Having an experience like that certainly justifies being concerned about
food handling. It would for most anyone. It is a bad thing to happen.

[jmcquown]

I use a butter bell.

Jill

[Christina Websell]

"Jack Campin" <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bogus-FE28ED....@four.schnuerpel.eu...

>> How can one over use a refrigerator?
>
> Put avocados or bananas in it.
>
> Or any food that tastes better when left at room temperature, like
> most cheese.
>
> Or use it for eggs. Nobody takes so long to get round to eating
> an egg that refrigerating it makes any difference. It just means
> they take more energy to cook and are more likely to break on
> boiling.
>

Do NOT put eggs in the fridge (or not mine..)
I sell a dozen a week at my Tuesday club and once they've tasted them they
decide that the "free range" supermarket eggs are not quite as nice.
I've seen those free range houses for supermarkets. They are so big, like
aircraft hangars that only the hens that happen to be near the popholes
actually know they can go outside.

In theory, they are free range. If only they all could find their way out.

Tweed

[Christina Websell]

"jmcquown" <j_mc...@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:b08k9b...@mid.individual.net...

They are washed?? It's illegal here to wash eggs for human consumption.
Eggs have a bloom on them when they are laid which prevents bacteria getting
in, if you wash them it removes it.

[jmcquown]

On 5/24/2013 3:44 PM, Christina Websell wrote:
> "jmcquown" <j_mc...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:b08k9b...@mid.individual.net...
>> On 5/23/2013 9:02 PM, Jack Campin wrote:
>>>> How can one over use a refrigerator?
>>>

>>> Or use it for eggs. Nobody takes so long to get round to eating
>>> an egg that refrigerating it makes any difference.
>>
>> Nobody? Heh. I guess you eat eggs every day. I don't.
>>
>>> It just means
>>> they take more energy to cook and are more likely to break on
>>> boiling.
>>>
>> Actually, there is a difference between the way eggs are handled/processed
>> in the UK/EU and in the US. Commercially produced eggs in the US do
>> require refrigeration. Something to do with the washing process.
>
>
> They are washed?? It's illegal here to wash eggs for human consumption.
> Eggs have a bloom on them when they are laid which prevents bacteria getting
> in, if you wash them it removes it.
>

Yes, eggs in the United States are washed. This is why they have to be
refrigerated.

Jill

[EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)]

Bastette wrote:

> "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote:
>
> > By refrigerating all the stuff that does not REQUIRE refrigeration, as
> > we do in the U.S. (Peanut-butter? I ask you!)
>
> OK, I have to admit that I do refrigerate peanut butter for a while when
> it's new. But hear me out: The reason is that otherwise, the oil separates
> and I have to stir it all over again. When the jar is full, it's hard to
> stir the contents without making a big mess (spilling/losing a lot of the
> oil, which I'm going to miss when I get further down in the jar). In the
> fridge the oil is more solid and doesn't separate.
>
> Once the jar is about 2/3 empty, there's no need to refrigerate it because
> then I can stir it more easily. I must say that it tastes a lot better at
> room temperature.
>
> If they can sell a plastic bag of potato chips (crisps) that is mostly
> air inside - which they do to make it look like there's more inside than
> there really is - why can't they sell peanut butter in a larger glass
> jar and just not fill it all the way? More room for stirring!

Well, of course there's always "Skippy" (and the other "homogenized"
brands), but they don't really TASTE like peanut butter, do they?
>

[Christina Websell]

"jmcquown" <j_mc...@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:b0a16d...@mid.individual.net...

Why are they washed? there is no reason at all to do it.

[Bastette]

"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote:

> Bastette wrote:

>> Once the jar is about 2/3 empty, there's no need to refrigerate it because
>> then I can stir it more easily. I must say that it tastes a lot better at
>> room temperature.

I meant to say "1/3 empty" here. Meaning, 2/3 of it is still in the jar.

>> If they can sell a plastic bag of potato chips (crisps) that is mostly
>> air inside - which they do to make it look like there's more inside than
>> there really is - why can't they sell peanut butter in a larger glass
>> jar and just not fill it all the way? More room for stirring!

> Well, of course there's always "Skippy" (and the other "homogenized"
> brands), but they don't really TASTE like peanut butter, do they?

I haven't had that kind for years. It seems pretty unappealing to me
now. It also has tons of sugar. I buy mine from a local health food
store where they grind the nuts themselves.

"Ingredients: Peanuts." :)

--
Joyce

The problem with cats is that they get the exact same look on their
face whether they see a moth or an axe-murderer.
-- Paula Poundstone

[Bastette]

Christina Websell wrote:

> "jmcquown" <j_mc...@comcast.net> wrote in message


>> On 5/24/2013 3:44 PM, Christina Websell wrote:

>>> They are washed?? It's illegal here to wash eggs for human consumption.
>>> Eggs have a bloom on them when they are laid which prevents bacteria
>>> getting in, if you wash them it removes it.

>> Yes, eggs in the United States are washed. This is why they have to be
>> refrigerated.

> Why are they washed? there is no reason at all to do it.

This is interesting. I had no idea this was done. So I'd like to know
too. If washing eggs allows bacteria to get in, why on earth would they
do that? Especially on large farms where the hens are crammed together,
there are lots of pathogenic bacteria available to get into the eggs,
including salmonella. (There haven't been any outbreaks of salmonella
in several years, but I'm still wary.) Of course, these farms have a
wonderful way to deal with that problem: antibiotics. People complain
that doctors overprescribe them (and they do), but agricultural use is
a much bigger problem.

[Joy]

"Bastette" <bastX...@sonic.net> wrote in message

news:knovgq$dqg$2...@dont-email.me...

They wash them because they often have chicken poop on them. People
wouldn't buy them that way, and markets probably wouldn't carry them. In
fact, it would probably be against health laws. The more crowded the
chickens are, the more chance of poop being on the eggs.

Joy

[Bastette]

Two words: Twenty-fifteen. :)

Well, it's good for chickens in California, anyway.

Back in 2008, California passed a referendum making it illegal for farms
to house chickens all crammed together in those barbaric little cages. The
cages will have to be large enough for a chicken to stand up and turn around.
This law goes into effect in 2015.

It's still not enough, but it's an improvement. I don't know if it will
improve the poopy egg situation, though.

--
Joyce

Cats are rather delicate creatures and they are subject to a good
many ailments, but I never heard of one who suffered from insomnia.
-- Joseph Wood Krutch

[MLB]

Many years ago, I bought eggs at a chicken farm. The eggs there were
given a bath and then a parafin bath to help preserve them. The parafin
was a very thin coating. MLB

[Joy]

"MLB" <m...@nonesuch.com> wrote in message
news:knpb1g$cfq$1...@news.xmission.com...

Yes, I've heard of that being done.

Joy

[EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)]

Christina Websell wrote:
> "jmcquown" <j_mc...@comcast.net> wrote in message

> news:b0a16d...@mid.individual.net...

>>>
>> Yes, eggs in the United States are washed. This is why they have to be
>> refrigerated.
>>
>> Jill
>
> Why are they washed? there is no reason at all to do it.
>

Probably due to overly fastidious housewives - I assume it is to remove
the hens' dried on bodily fluids, since birth is a rather messy process
(even if they are laying eggs, rather than birthing live critters).

[EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)]

Bastette wrote:

> "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote:

> > Well, of course there's always "Skippy" (and the other "homogenized"
> > brands), but they don't really TASTE like peanut butter, do they?
>
> I haven't had that kind for years. It seems pretty unappealing to me
> now. It also has tons of sugar. I buy mine from a local health food
> store where they grind the nuts themselves.

When I first got a food-processor, I tried making my own marzipan. It
turned out okay, but too much work!

[EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)]

According to my grandmother, who lived before electric refrigerators,
they used to dip eggs in a chemical called "liquid glass" to preserve
them over the winter months.

[Christina Websell]

"Joy" <toa...@real-me.net> wrote in message
news:51a00679$0$10811$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com...

> "Bastette" <bastX...@sonic.net> wrote in message
> news:knovgq$dqg$2...@dont-email.me...
>> Christina Websell wrote:
>>
>> > "jmcquown" <j_mc...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>
>>
>> >> On 5/24/2013 3:44 PM, Christina Websell wrote:
>>
>> >>> They are washed?? It's illegal here to wash eggs for human
>> >>> consumption.
>> >>> Eggs have a bloom on them when they are laid which prevents bacteria
>> >>> getting in, if you wash them it removes it.
>>
>> >> Yes, eggs in the United States are washed. This is why they have to
>> >> be
>> >> refrigerated.
>>
>> > Why are they washed? there is no reason at all to do it.
>>
>> This is interesting. I had no idea this was done. So I'd like to know
>> too. If washing eggs allows bacteria to get in, why on earth would they
>> do that? Especially on large farms where the hens are crammed together,
>> there are lots of pathogenic bacteria available to get into the eggs,
>> including salmonella. (There haven't been any outbreaks of salmonella
>> in several years, but I'm still wary.) Of course, these farms have a
>> wonderful way to deal with that problem: antibiotics. People complain
>> that doctors overprescribe them (and they do), but agricultural use is
>> a much bigger problem.
>>
>> --

> They wash them because they often have chicken poop on them. People
> wouldn't buy them that way, and markets probably wouldn't carry them. In
> fact, it would probably be against health laws. The more crowded the
> chickens are, the more chance of poop being on the eggs.
>
> Joy

Well, the interesting fact is that it doesn't matter if they have a bit of
chicken poop on, because if you don't wash them to remove the "bloom", the
protective coating, no bacteria can get inside the shell.
Once you wash them..well.. they are animal food only for me. I would not
dream of eating a washed egg.

Tweed







>

[Bastette]

The store has its own heavy-duty grinders which can grind a lot more
at one time than a food processor. In fact, some grinders are out on the
floor so that customers can make their own peanut butter. You put peanuts
into the top of the machine, and peanut butter comes out near the bottom.

--
Joyce

I've gone running from the devil
At times I've beaten down his path

[Christina Websell]

Yes, because in those days hens did not lay in the winter, now in the advent
of hybrid chickens they do.
If you did that, you could only use the eggs for baking, you couldn't
actually get them out of the preservative and eat them fried, boiled or
scrambled.

I found this for the Americans just now::



http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2046848/pg1

which is what I said. Do not disturb the bloom.

Tweed

[Joy]

"Christina Websell" <spam...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:b0cok7...@mid.individual.net...

Some of us prefer not to put poop, chicken or other, into our refrigerators
or food cabinets. Therefore, it does matter.

Joy

[Jack Campin]

> Many years ago, I bought eggs at a chicken farm. The eggs there were
> given a bath and then a parafin bath to help preserve them. The parafin
> was a very thin coating. MLB

My mum used to preserve eggs by dunking them in a gloppy syrup of
sodium silicate ("water glass" I think it was called) and leaving
them to dry. This was in England in the 1950s (we had our own
chickens so it made sense to preserve the eggs as they popped out).
This was pretty standard in post-WW2 austerity Britain.

She also kept beef fat (for frying or spreading on bread or toast)
and that didn't get refrigerated either.

[MLB]

I remember from my childhood that bacon grease was delicous on bred --
but it was a rare treat. MLB

[Christina Websell]

"Joy" <toa...@real-me.net> wrote in message

news:51a1325f$0$10773$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com...

>> Some of us prefer not to put poop, chicken or other, into our
>> refrigerators
> or food cabinets. Therefore, it does matter.
>
> Joy

Chicken poop will not get into your eggs if they are not washed and they
will not need to be refridgerated either. Unwashed eggs will keep well at
room temperature for at least 6 weeks.
I never put my eggs in the fridge, it's totally not necessary.

I found one accidentally missed in a box from February (I mark the date of
laying with a pencil on them) and I broke it into a cup to make sure it was
OK - it was absolutely perfect still and so they will be If You Do Not Wash
Them.

[jmcquown]

That's all well and good if you raise your own laying hens. I don't
know anyone who does. I don't have any choice but to buy them from a
supermarket and have no control over the fact they've been washed.

Jill

[Joy]

"Christina Websell" <spam...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote in message

news:b0d0r4...@mid.individual.net...

Did you wash the dirty egg before you broke it?

My mother left a lot of things out of the refrigerator when I was growing
up. We also had a lot of food poisoning. Now I refrigerate anything
protein, as well as certain other things, and never get food poisoning. I'd
rather be safe than sick.

Joy

[EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)]

Jack Campin wrote:
>> Many years ago, I bought eggs at a chicken farm. The eggs there were
>> given a bath and then a parafin bath to help preserve them. The parafin
>> was a very thin coating. MLB
>
> My mum used to preserve eggs by dunking them in a gloppy syrup of
> sodium silicate ("water glass" I think it was called) and leaving
> them to dry. This was in England in the 1950s (we had our own
> chickens so it made sense to preserve the eggs as they popped out).
> This was pretty standard in post-WW2 austerity Britain.
>
> She also kept beef fat (for frying or spreading on bread or toast)
> and that didn't get refrigerated either.

A friend of mine used to contribute a batch of her mother's chocolate
brownies whenever we gave a party - they were fabulous, and her secret
was that she used bacon fat for the shortening. Unfortunately, my
mother wouldn't serve them, because she once found a cat hair in one!
(So what's a cat hair or two, among "cat people"? The heat required to
bake them would have killed any bacteria.) ;-)

[EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)]

That's true, unfortunately - even if you buy "free range" eggs in a
health food store, you've no guarantee that "free range" means what you
think it does! (Not even if you buy the fertilized variety - at their
inflated prices.)

[EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)]

The Other Guy wrote:

> On Sat, 25 May 2013 12:51:16 -0700, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
> <evg...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>> According to my grandmother, who lived before electric refrigerators,
>

> As did I, when young. But we DID have an ice box,
> and got fresh ice twice a week.

Yeah, me too, but refrigerated space was limited, so we didn't put
EVERYTHING in the ice-box, as we do now. And since I grew up in
Minnesota, instead of buying ice in winter, food needing refrigeration
was placed between the inner windows and storm windows in the basement.
(It stayed plenty cold that way, too - often freezing solid.)

[Joy]

"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <evg...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:7POdnSXKZPOM9j_M...@earthlink.com...

LOL! I once had a friend who said she found a cat hair in her food and had
to throw the whole plate of food away. I told her that when I find a cat
hair in my food, I remove it and go on eating.

Joy

[jmcquown]

Absoutely true. The same problem comes up with the term "organic".

Jill

[Bastette]

A friend of mine likes to say, "In our house, cat hair is a condiment."

--
Joyce

The sun rose slowly, like a fiery furball coughed up uneasily onto a
sky-blue carpet by a giant unseen cat. -- Michael McGarel

[Joy]

"Bastette" <bastX...@sonic.net> wrote in message

news:ko1k23$q85$2...@dont-email.me...

I like that.

Joy

[Christina Websell]

"jmcquown" <j_mc...@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:b0d14s...@mid.individual.net...

Yes, I know. Maybe it's because your temperatures get higher than ours that
you need all to get crazy about hygiene <shrug>
Washed eggs are illegal here for human consumption so it's not about rearing
your own chickens and eggs, it's about that washed eggs are dangerous as
without the bloom bacteria can get into the shell.

anyway, we don't wash eggs here.

[jmcquown]

Absolutely it's about temperature. It's also about large farmed eggs
rather than raising chickens and being able to collect (and not wash)
your own eggs. I've never lived where I had that option, sorry. Just
another difference between the UK and the US.

Jill

[Christina Websell]

"jmcquown" <j_mc...@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:b0kedd...@mid.individual.net...

No, I think it's more about the USA thing for hygiene.
None of our supermarkets would be allowed to sell washed eggs because as I
said, once the bloom is removed bacteria can get into the shell.
It's SO illegal here.

No chicken egg is allowed to be washed here (supermarket wise) and sold for
human consumption and I am surprised that it is seen as quite normal in the
USA.

[Joy]

"Christina Websell" <spam...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote in message

news:b0ngnp...@mid.individual.net...

And I'm surprised that eggs with chicken poop on them are allowed to be sold
in the markets in the UK.

Joy

[Christina Websell]

"Joy" <toa...@real-me.net> wrote in message

news:51a15437$0$10772$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com...

> "Christina Websell" <spam...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:b0d0r4...@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> "Joy" <toa...@real-me.net> wrote in message
>> news:51a1325f$0$10773$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com...
>>>> Some of us prefer not to put poop, chicken or other, into our
>>>> refrigerators
>>> or food cabinets. Therefore, it does matter.
>>>
>>> Joy
>> Chicken poop will not get into your eggs if they are not washed and they
>> will not need to be refridgerated either. Unwashed eggs will keep well
>> at room temperature for at least 6 weeks.
>> I never put my eggs in the fridge, it's totally not necessary.
>>
>> I found one accidentally missed in a box from February (I mark the date
>> of laying with a pencil on them) and I broke it into a cup to make sure
>> it was OK - it was absolutely perfect still and so they will be If You Do
>> Not Wash Them.
>
> Did you wash the dirty egg before you broke it?

??
It was not a dirty egg. It was one that it was fine to eat months later
because it still had the bloom on.
Never wash eggs unless you eat them within a week or so.

[Bastette]

I keep eggs for more than a week. Uncooked they last about 2 weeks, maybe
longer. I usually hard-boil them, and then they last a lot longer.

Of course I keep them in the refrigerator. ;-)

--
Joyce

I want freedom, the right to self expression, everyone's right to
beautiful radiant things. -- Emma Goldman

[Bastette]

Then both countries, each in their own way, are concerned with hygiene.
It's just that washing is seen as more hygienic here, and the bloom is seen
as more hygienic on your side.

[jmcquown]

On 5/29/2013 8:07 PM, Bastette wrote:

> Christina Websell wrote:
>
>
> > It was not a dirty egg. It was one that it was fine to eat months later
> > because it still had the bloom on.
> > Never wash eggs unless you eat them within a week or so.
>
>
> I keep eggs for more than a week. Uncooked they last about 2 weeks, maybe
> longer. I usually hard-boil them, and then they last a lot longer.
>
> Of course I keep them in the refrigerator. ;-)
>

There's no point in continuing the discussion. There are many reasons
why there are differences in egg handling in the US and the UK. The
fact remains there are differences. Talking about it isn't going to
change anything. I can't believe all this came out of my mentioning the
refrigerator. LOL

Jill

[EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)]

Bastette wrote:
> Christina Websell wrote:

> > No, I think it's more about the USA thing for hygiene.
> > None of our supermarkets would be allowed to sell washed eggs because as I
> > said, once the bloom is removed bacteria can get into the shell.
> > It's SO illegal here.
>
> Then both countries, each in their own way, are concerned with hygiene.
> It's just that washing is seen as more hygienic here, and the bloom is seen
> as more hygienic on your side.

Contrary to some of the opinions expressed by Americans, here, I think
the UK may be MORE concerned with "hygiene" on their side of the pond -
they refuse to import "genetically modified" produce from the US,
whereas in this country Monsanto is waging an all-out war to prevent
legislation requiring such products be labeled!
>

[jmcquown]

Please, let's don't go down the political road.

Jill

[EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)]

Why not? Whether you regard the practice as good or bad, shouldn't we
be allowed to CHOOSE? Do you WANT to purchase genetically modified
produce without knowing it? (Seems to me that's as much a matter of
"hygiene" as your carping about "washed" and "unwashed" eggs!)

[jmcquown]

On 5/31/2013 3:47 PM, Judith Latham wrote:
> In article <b0pp78...@mid.individual.net>, jmcquown

> <j_mc...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> There's no point in continuing the discussion. There are many reasons
>> why there are differences in egg handling in the US and the UK. The
>> fact remains there are differences. Talking about it isn't going to
>> change anything. I can't believe all this came out of my mentioning the
>> refrigerator. LOL
>
>> Jill
>

> i love it when a post about one thing develops into a conversation about
> something else. It's what normally happens if you're just chatting. How
> often have you wondered how you got onto a particular subject when
> chatting to friends?
>
> Judith
>
Happens all the time in conversation. I told John we call this "thread
drift". He loves that term! :)

Jill

[Joy]

"Judith Latham" <jud...@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote in message
news:53549cb9...@sick-of-spam.invalid...

> In article <b0pp78...@mid.individual.net>, jmcquown
> <j_mc...@comcast.net> wrote:

> i love it when a post about one thing develops into a conversation about
> something else. It's what normally happens if you're just chatting. How
> often have you wondered how you got onto a particular subject when
> chatting to friends?
>
> Judith
>

> --
> Judith Latham
> Stourbridge, West Midlands. UK.

I used to know a man who would halt a group conversation every so often,
just to trace how we got from one subject to the one currently under
discussion. It was a lot of fun, but startled people who didn't know him.

Joy

[Joy]

"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <evg...@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:ns6dndZL9rVhnzTM...@earthlink.com...

I don't see that it has anything to do with hygiene. That involves
cleanliness and avoiding contamination or infection. Genetic modification
is an entirely different subject, about which many people feel very
strongly.

I believe Jill meant that she'd rather keep this newsgroup on topic, or at
least on topics that don't arouse strong negative feelings. I heartily
concur. I have seen a very friendly newsgroup totally destroyed by the
introduction of politics.

Joy

[jmcquown]

Because this isn't a political newsgroup. I wasn't *carping* about
anything. I mentioned eggs in the US require refrigeration. I didn't
drag politics into it.

Jill

[jmcquown]

Absolutely right, Joy. There are newsgroups if she wants to discuss
that sort of thing.

OB Cats: Persia is enjoying the last sunshine puddle of the day in the
dining room. :)

Jill

[Bastette]

Joy wrote:

> I believe Jill meant that she'd rather keep this newsgroup on topic, or at
> least on topics that don't arouse strong negative feelings.

That's the clincher: strong feelings. We go off-topic here all the time.
So that's not the real problem. It's only when a topic can cause angry
arguments that people object to having it here.

I don't feel as strongly (speaking of strong feelings) about that rule
myself and I don't mind the occasional political discussion, or even
occasional disagreements, as long as people can keep from devolving into
rudeness and abuse.

As far as Evelyn's comment goes, it's hard to believe that subject is
even controversial. I know there are plenty of people who don't think
GMOs are dangerous, or simply don't care, and that's their business.
But are there really people who feel *so strongly* about the ability to
remain unaware of what's in their food that they want to deny that
knowledge to everyone? I mean other than the people who sell the stuff?
Seriously, it's hard to believe this is something that people would
argue about...

--
Joyce

I will not sniff at my male human's feet after he takes his shoes off,
freeze my mouth open in disgust and then sniff my private parts to compare
odors. -- Cat Resolutions

[EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)]

Okay, I stand corrected. (However, I'm far more concerned about the
health risks of undeclared genetic modifications to my produce than I am
about a little chicken poop on eggshells!)

[jmcquown]

On 5/31/2013 5:33 PM, Joy wrote:
> "Judith Latham" <jud...@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote in message
> news:53549cb9...@sick-of-spam.invalid...
>>

>> i love it when a post about one thing develops into a conversation about
>> something else. It's what normally happens if you're just chatting. How
>> often have you wondered how you got onto a particular subject when
>> chatting to friends?
>>
>> Judith
>>
>> --
>> Judith Latham
>> Stourbridge, West Midlands. UK.
>
> I used to know a man who would halt a group conversation every so often,
> just to trace how we got from one subject to the one currently under
> discussion. It was a lot of fun, but startled people who didn't know him.
>
> Joy
>
>

LOL John and I do that occasionally. We also keep a tablet nearby and
jot a lot of silly notes about things we've talked about. Pure stream
of consciousness type stuff. It's fun later to try to figure out how
the heck we got on a particular subject. But then, we're a little
strange. ;)

Jill