Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss

Royal Canin vs. Hill's k/d?

1,580 views
Skip to first unread message

jmcquown

unread,
Jul 27, 2012, 4:32:50 PM7/27/12
to
I did wind up having the vet come out yesterday. Persia pooped outside the
litter box and also threw up in the bathroom (which she hasn't done in a
long time). Okay, distress signal! It's time to get the vet involved.

Thank goodness every room in this house has a door. I knew she'd run and
hide the minute they showed up. I closed off every door so the only place
she could go was in the living/dining room. As it is, I still had to drag
her out from under the sofa. She moves fast for an old girl :) I got her
out and the tech held her while they took blood and urine samples. Needles!
Poor Persia :(

They called me about an hour after they left here and had run the tests.
Persia is in early stage renal failure :(

Now she is to eat prescription wet food for kidney problems. I picked up a
few cans of each food today, the Royal Canin and the Hill's k/d. It was
suggested I try both to see which one she likes the best. When I got home I
gave her some of the Royal Canin. She didn't seem overly thrilled by it but
she ate it. I'll try some of the Hill's food this evening.

Obviously it will be up to Persia to decide which food she likes better.
I'm just wondering, if your cats eat either of these, which they prefer.

Jill

Christina Websell

unread,
Jul 27, 2012, 7:07:12 PM7/27/12
to

"jmcquown" <j_mc...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:a7gc7k...@mid.individual.net...
When KFC was diagnosed with early renal failure I went along with the food
the vet said. I can't remember what it was now but she didn't eat it for
long. Appetite is a problem for CRF kitties and even though the kidney
foods are supposed to be yummy she didn't eat them for more than a few
weeks. I hope Persia will eat them for years, but if she doesn't, I could
maybe help you with this.
I kept KFC going for ages with her CRF by diet alone.
I didn't go the injecting her with sub-q fluid route, that is popular in
America and you might like to consider it if she needs it. Our vets here
mainly advise against it.
Tweed




Bastette

unread,
Jul 27, 2012, 9:11:15 PM7/27/12
to
Christina Websell wrote:

> When KFC was diagnosed with early renal failure I went along with the food
> the vet said. I can't remember what it was now but she didn't eat it for
> long. Appetite is a problem for CRF kitties and even though the kidney
> foods are supposed to be yummy she didn't eat them for more than a few
> weeks. I hope Persia will eat them for years, but if she doesn't, I could
> maybe help you with this.
> I kept KFC going for ages with her CRF by diet alone.
> I didn't go the injecting her with sub-q fluid route, that is popular in
> America and you might like to consider it if she needs it. Our vets here
> mainly advise against it.

That's interesting, do you know why? I'm convinced that my partner and I
kept our cat Tika going for 5 years with CRF. She was diagnosed at age 16
and lived to 21.

--
Joyce

The sun rose slowly, like a fiery furball coughed up uneasily onto a
sky-blue carpet by a giant unseen cat. -- Michael McGarel

Christina Websell

unread,
Jul 27, 2012, 9:57:58 PM7/27/12
to

"Bastette" <bastX...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:juve7j$93k$1...@dont-email.me...
> Christina Websell wrote:
>
> > When KFC was diagnosed with early renal failure I went along with the
> > food
> > the vet said. I can't remember what it was now but she didn't eat it
> > for
> > long. Appetite is a problem for CRF kitties and even though the kidney
> > foods are supposed to be yummy she didn't eat them for more than a few
> > weeks. I hope Persia will eat them for years, but if she doesn't, I
> > could
> > maybe help you with this.
> > I kept KFC going for ages with her CRF by diet alone.
> > I didn't go the injecting her with sub-q fluid route, that is popular
> > in
> > America and you might like to consider it if she needs it. Our vets
> > here
> > mainly advise against it.
>
> That's interesting, do you know why? I'm convinced that my partner and I
> kept our cat Tika going for 5 years with CRF. She was diagnosed at age 16
> and lived to 21.
>
No, I don't know why. Vets are just not in favour of people doing sub-q
themselves here. Its rarely done by vets either.
I kept KFC going by diet only and drinking rehyd stuff. got her to 25.
I suppose if I had insisted I could have been enabled to do it. It was not
offered as an option though. I wouldn't have done it anyway, she would not
have liked it. Neither would Boyfie so he wouldn't get sub-q either. He
would hate it and as much as I love him I would prefer to let him go.

There is obviously a difference between USA & UK vets. a big difference.
Let's not mention declawing, our vets would be struck off if they did that.









Bastette

unread,
Jul 28, 2012, 12:54:32 AM7/28/12
to
Christina Websell wrote:

> "Bastette" <bastX...@sonic.net> wrote in message

>> > I didn't go the injecting her with sub-q fluid route, that is popular
>> > in
>> > America and you might like to consider it if she needs it. Our vets
>> > here
>> > mainly advise against it.
>>
>> That's interesting, do you know why? I'm convinced that my partner and I
>> kept our cat Tika going for 5 years with CRF. She was diagnosed at age 16
>> and lived to 21.
>>
> No, I don't know why. Vets are just not in favour of people doing sub-q
> themselves here. Its rarely done by vets either.
> I kept KFC going by diet only and drinking rehyd stuff. got her to 25.

Well, that's it, then. You gave her the rehydrating liquid. Kind of the
same idea. They just need to get a lot of water in them to flush out the
toxins as much as possible. Problem is, cats don't tend to drink a lot
of water normally. So they need help with that, whether it's rehydrating
liquid or subq fluids, I guess it doesn't matter.

--
Joyce

Loneliness is comforted by the closeness and touch of fur to fur,
skin to skin, or -- skin to fur. -- Paul Gallico

jmcquown

unread,
Jul 28, 2012, 9:55:49 AM7/28/12
to

"Christina Websell" wrote in message
news:a7gl92...@mid.individual.net...
Christina, if you have some suggestions for a CRF diet I'd love to hear
them. Persia is not particularly enamored with either brand of canned cat
food. Sure, she eats it. She woke me up this morning asking where's the
food?! I've given her both the Royal Canin and the Hill's k/d. She doesn't
really care for either of them. But it's not like I have a choice, unless
you can suggest something else. She already drinks a lot of water. She
always has. And the vet didn't mention sub-q fluids.

Jill

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)

unread,
Jul 28, 2012, 3:35:43 PM7/28/12
to


Christina Websell wrote:

> There is obviously a difference between USA & UK vets. a big difference.
> Let's not mention declawing, our vets would be struck off if they did that.
>
I stopped using a vet in Pasadena CA, when I realized the "laser
surgery" he advertised was for declawing! (He was a good, caring vet,
otherwise, and I suppose laser surgery is less traumatic than the
traditional kind, but still....)

When I adopted Cendrillon, I knew she had been declawed, which usually
means spayed or neutered at the same time. She'd been with me for about
a week when she came in heat! (One reason she found her forever home
with me - spaying isn't cheap, so after paying out that kind of money,
merely fostering her just wasn't an option.)
Message has been deleted

Nadia N.

unread,
Jul 29, 2012, 10:06:08 AM7/29/12
to
jmcquown wrote:
>
> They called me about an hour after they left here and had run the tests.
> Persia is in early stage renal failure :(
>
> Now she is to eat prescription wet food for kidney problems. I picked
> up a few cans of each food today, the Royal Canin and the Hill's k/d.
> It was suggested I try both to see which one she likes the best. When I
> got home I gave her some of the Royal Canin. She didn't seem overly
> thrilled by it but she ate it. I'll try some of the Hill's food this
> evening.
>
> Obviously it will be up to Persia to decide which food she likes better.
> I'm just wondering, if your cats eat either of these, which they prefer.
>
> Jill

Kotyo has been on Hill's k/d canned for over 2 years now. He loves it,
but then again, he loves every kind of food. I never tried him with the
Royal Canin because it is not as easily found here in Spain.

One thing that is very important for cats with CRF is that they get a
lot of fluids. I add water to Kotyo's wet food at every meal.

Here is a link to a website with a huge amount of information about CRF:
http://www.felinecrf.org/ . It has a section on food with suggestions
of what to feed if your cat just won't eat the prescription food. You
might also want to join the Yahoo feline CRF group, which is full of
people sharing their experience with their own cats, and what CRF foods
they have found that their cats would eat. The choices are not only
Hill's and Royal Canin, even though most vets only suggest those two.
The link is http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline-CRF-Support/ .
Their archives go back to the year 2000, so there is a lot of
information there.

Lots of purrs are being sent to you and Persia from me, Kotyo and
Sweety. I was in your shoes about 2 years ago, when Kotyo was diagnosed
with early stage CRF. In our case, it turned out that it is actually a
heart defect that is affecting his kidneys, and not CRF (yet), but it
took more than a year for the vets to figure that out, and in the
meantime I did a lot of research on CRF. If caught early enough, and
with good care and good food, cats can live with it for quite a long time.

Nadia, Kotyo and Sweety
--
Little Monster pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/Kotyo
Sweety pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/Sweety
Kotyo and Sweety together:
http://picasaweb.google.com/nnakova/KotyoAndSweety

Christina Websell

unread,
Jul 29, 2012, 5:16:40 PM7/29/12
to

"jmcquown" <j_mc...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:a7i9b7...@mid.individual.net...
I'd prefer you went with the vet for now and not ask me until it's desperate
and they have given up. I don't consider myself an expert even though I
kept KFC going from 18-25 with CRF and dogs the same. My vet said once "I
have never seen anyone like yourself who can keep them going like you can."
No sub q. It's over once you start that.

Tweed









Christina Websell

unread,
Jul 31, 2012, 3:41:32 PM7/31/12
to

"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <evg...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:jv1ev...@news3.newsguy.com...
I might be wrong but I think America is the only place in the world where
declawing is legal. It should stop. Immediately.
It's a disgusting practice.
Why do your vets offer it?


Adrian

unread,
Jul 31, 2012, 5:24:50 PM7/31/12
to
Actually, USA and Canada. Though some US cities have now made it illegal.
--
Adrian

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)

unread,
Jul 31, 2012, 5:58:31 PM7/31/12
to
The same reason any attempt to provide human "Medicare for All" goes
down to defeat whenever it's proposed: $$$$$$! (Greed outweighs caring
concern for the patients.)
>
>

Christina Websell

unread,
Jul 31, 2012, 6:10:07 PM7/31/12
to

"Adrian" <addre...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:265011215365462510.190024...@news.freenetname.co.uk...
I didn't know that declawing was still legal in Canada.
It should be illegal everywhere in a humane world.
Imagine having your fingerails plucked out just in case you decided to
damage the furniture.
And you need those nails to do toilet duties.
Cats are born with with claws on all four feet,. If you don;t like it,
don;t get one.








Christina Websell

unread,
Jul 31, 2012, 6:35:15 PM7/31/12
to

"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <evg...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:jv9kf...@news7.newsguy.com...
If I went to my vet tomorrow and asked him to declaw Boyfriend I think he
would almost kill me for even asking.
I suspect I would be struck off his list for even suggesting it.

Tweed









Adrian

unread,
Aug 1, 2012, 10:31:55 AM8/1/12
to
It's worse than having your fingernails pulled out, it's equivalent to have
the ends of your fingers chopped off at the last knuckle. :-(
--
Adrian

MaryL

unread,
Aug 1, 2012, 11:54:27 AM8/1/12
to


"Christina Websell" wrote in message
news:a7r56k...@mid.individual.net...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately (as you know), declawing is legal in most of the U.S.
Fortunately, more and more people are becoming aware of what a cruel
practice it is. Years ago (back in the 1960s), when I got my first cat, I
actually considered having my cat declawed. That's because I did not
realize that it involves amputation--and, of course, we did not have the
Internet then. I had to have part of the roots of my own big toes removed,
and I thought it would be similar. My vet told me that it would be a slower
and more painful healing process because my cat was then several months old
and was heavier than most cats that were declawed. So, I decided against
it, but I still did not know that it involved amputation. Ironically, I
found that it was very easy to train my cat to use a scratching post (the
primary reason most people use to justify declawing--others say it is to
prevent the cat from scratching people). As years went by, I learned more
about the procedure and was absolutely horrified that I had even considered
it. With the Internet, it is now very easy to point people to information
about this cruel procedure, and I have succeeded in convincing several
people not to use it.

As Adrian said, there are now a few cities that have made it illegal, and I
hope the number will grow. There are also growing numbers of vets who will
not declaw, but I am convinced that most vets who do perform it do so for
$$$$$.

MaryL






EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)

unread,
Aug 1, 2012, 5:53:06 PM8/1/12
to


Christina Websell wrote:

> I didn't know that declawing was still legal in Canada.
> It should be illegal everywhere in a humane world.
> Imagine having your fingerails plucked out just in case you decided to
> damage the furniture.

If it were ONLY fingernails, it might not be so bad. (Think first
joints of all your fingers!)

Bastette

unread,
Aug 2, 2012, 2:05:00 AM8/2/12
to
It would still be inhumane even if it were only the claws, because *cats
have claws for a reason*! Claws are their main defense, and they also
allow a cat to climb up trees or other things to get away from danger
quickly. I don't know why people don't mention that when they talk about
declawing. I think that leaving them defenseless is the worst part of it.

--
Joyce

Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he
grows up, he'll never be able to merge his car onto a freeway.

MaryL

unread,
Aug 2, 2012, 5:00:51 AM8/2/12
to


"Bastette" wrote in message news:jvd5ac$hei$1...@dont-email.me...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Without claws, a high percentage of cats also develop arthritis and also
abnormalities. They cannot walk and exercise normally without their claws.
The change in their walking and posture (even stretching, as when
scratching) may not be obvious to us, but it will take its toll over the
years.

MaryL

Christina Websell

unread,
Aug 2, 2012, 5:24:14 PM8/2/12
to

"Bastette" <bastX...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:jvd5ac$hei$1...@dont-email.me...
> "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote:
>
> > Christina Websell wrote:
>
> >> I didn't know that declawing was still legal in Canada.
> >> It should be illegal everywhere in a humane world.
> >> Imagine having your fingerails plucked out just in case you decided to
> >> damage the furniture.
>
> > If it were ONLY fingernails, it might not be so bad. (Think first
> > joints of all your fingers!)
>
> It would still be inhumane even if it were only the claws, because *cats
> have claws for a reason*! Claws are their main defense, and they also
> allow a cat to climb up trees or other things to get away from danger
> quickly. I don't know why people don't mention that when they talk about
> declawing. I think that leaving them defenseless is the worst part of it.
>
> --
Do you have any idea why it is still legal in North America & Canada?
Is your furniture more precious than ours? Or do you think your vets like
the money from doing it?
My vet would be struck off if he did it. Not that he ever would. I did ask
him about his opinion about this once. I wouldn't like to share what he
said. He has only done it once, in his whole career and that was when a cat
had such a serious nailbed infection that nothing worked and that was the
last resort. He said he hopes he never has to do it again because it causes
problems with digging for toilet duties and they can also become biters.
I cannot imagine why anyone would want to have this done. If you don't want
your cat to have claws, don't get one.
Both my cats needed their claws. KFC to live outside for many years and
catch mousies. Boyfie does use his for this but also to claw my kitchen rug
for emphasis when I've told him for the second time it's not time for his
food or when I've refused what he wants exactly when he wants it..
Tweed












EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)

unread,
Aug 2, 2012, 6:00:40 PM8/2/12
to


Bastette wrote:
> "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote:
>
> > Christina Websell wrote:
>
> >> I didn't know that declawing was still legal in Canada.
> >> It should be illegal everywhere in a humane world.
> >> Imagine having your fingerails plucked out just in case you decided to
> >> damage the furniture.
>
> > If it were ONLY fingernails, it might not be so bad. (Think first
> > joints of all your fingers!)
>
> It would still be inhumane even if it were only the claws, because *cats
> have claws for a reason*! Claws are their main defense, and they also
> allow a cat to climb up trees or other things to get away from danger
> quickly. I don't know why people don't mention that when they talk about
> declawing. I think that leaving them defenseless is the worst part of it.

Well, it certainly SHOULD at least mean they become de rigeur indoor
cats. But a lot of people let their declawed cats out, anyway - and
those I know of seem to have no difficulty climbing trees, even without
claws. (Fortunately they still have their teeth, declawing is usually
only the front feet, and a determined cat can disembowel a rather large
dog, if it gets proper purchase around the dog's neck with its front
legs, so its hind feet have the necessary access.)
>

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)

unread,
Aug 2, 2012, 6:07:52 PM8/2/12
to


MaryL wrote:
>
>
> "Bastette" wrote in message news:jvd5ac$hei$1...@dont-email.me...
>
> "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote:
>
>> Christina Websell wrote:
>
>>> I didn't know that declawing was still legal in Canada.
>>> It should be illegal everywhere in a humane world.
>>> Imagine having your fingerails plucked out just in case you decided to
>>> damage the furniture.
>
>> If it were ONLY fingernails, it might not be so bad. (Think first
>> joints of all your fingers!)
>
> It would still be inhumane even if it were only the claws, because *cats
> have claws for a reason*! Claws are their main defense, and they also
> allow a cat to climb up trees or other things to get away from danger
> quickly. I don't know why people don't mention that when they talk about
> declawing. I think that leaving them defenseless is the worst part of it.

Without claws, a high percentage of cats also develop arthritis and also
abnormalities. They cannot walk and exercise normally without their claws.
The change in their walking and posture (even stretching, as when
scratching) may not be obvious to us, but it will take its toll over the
years.

MaryL>

That may or may not be true - certainly not in every case. My
Cendrillon seems to have no difficulty walking (although I have noticed
a slight limp, occasionally). She "kneads" and scratches at the
furniture like any normal cat, and can jump higher than any cat I've
ever had! (Like a standing jump from the floor to the top of a china
cabinet well over six feet tall, and way above my head.)

MaryL

unread,
Aug 2, 2012, 6:31:41 PM8/2/12
to


"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote in message
news:jvetp...@news1.newsguy.com...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No, not in every case. That's why I said a "high percentage." You probably
would not even notice any difference in walking, but it has enough impact on
their skeletal structure that many cats develop arthritis at an earlier age
than would otherwise be expected. Just like with people who have
injury-induced arthritis, it usually is not possible to prove it in a
specific case.

MaryL

MaryL

unread,
Aug 2, 2012, 6:37:20 PM8/2/12
to


"Christina Websell" wrote in message
news:a809g1...@mid.individual.net...


"Bastette" <bastX...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:jvd5ac$hei$1...@dont-email.me...
> "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote:
>
> > Christina Websell wrote:
>
> >> I didn't know that declawing was still legal in Canada.
> >> It should be illegal everywhere in a humane world.
> >> Imagine having your fingerails plucked out just in case you decided to
> >> damage the furniture.
>
> > If it were ONLY fingernails, it might not be so bad. (Think first
> > joints of all your fingers!)
>
> It would still be inhumane even if it were only the claws, because *cats
> have claws for a reason*! Claws are their main defense, and they also
> allow a cat to climb up trees or other things to get away from danger
> quickly. I don't know why people don't mention that when they talk about
> declawing. I think that leaving them defenseless is the worst part of it.
>
> --
Do you have any idea why it is still legal in North America & Canada?
Is your furniture more precious than ours? Or do you think your vets like
the money from doing it?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Second attempt -- once again, my first reply to you seems to have gone
astray. Basically, I said that I do not know why it is legal in the U.S.
and Canada (and also a few other countries) but not in most nations. I only
know that there is a long history illustrating this difference. Likewise, I
don't know why money would be more significant to vets in the U.S., but it
is my opinion that that is the reason why so many support the practice.
Fortunately, there is a growing number of vets who refuse to declaw--and
also of patients who will not patronize vets who do so. That is *not*
intended as a justification. It is a cruel and abominable practice.

MaryL


MaryL

unread,
Aug 2, 2012, 8:11:44 PM8/2/12
to


"MaryL" wrote in message news:a80dp...@mid.individual.net...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
One additional comment: Even in the U.S., there are far more cats with
claws than declawed cats. That is still far too many. In fact, *one* is
too many unless it is one of the rare cases where it is needed for medical
reasons.

MaryL

Christina Websell

unread,
Aug 2, 2012, 8:41:48 PM8/2/12
to

"MaryL" <stan...@invalid.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a80ja6...@mid.individual.net...
I blame your vets for doing it, if they refused it would never happen


Storrmmee

unread,
Aug 6, 2012, 12:01:45 AM8/6/12
to
chester has a script for the dry kd and all six of mine eat it, i get
treat/emergency cans of the two you mentioned plus a third brand i can't
recall... chester will eat anything so he is no judge... when dh first came
home from the hospital he got a can for storrmmee to give her a treat, he
got the kd which she refused to eat, its nine lives or nothing for her...
Lee
"jmcquown" <j_mc...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:a7gc7k...@mid.individual.net...
>I did wind up having the vet come out yesterday. Persia pooped outside the
>litter box and also threw up in the bathroom (which she hasn't done in a
>long time). Okay, distress signal! It's time to get the vet involved.
>
> Thank goodness every room in this house has a door. I knew she'd run and
> hide the minute they showed up. I closed off every door so the only place
> she could go was in the living/dining room. As it is, I still had to drag
> her out from under the sofa. She moves fast for an old girl :) I got her
> out and the tech held her while they took blood and urine samples.
> Needles! Poor Persia :(
>
> They called me about an hour after they left here and had run the tests.
> Persia is in early stage renal failure :(
>
> Now she is to eat prescription wet food for kidney problems. I picked up
> a few cans of each food today, the Royal Canin and the Hill's k/d. It was
> suggested I try both to see which one she likes the best. When I got home
> I gave her some of the Royal Canin. She didn't seem overly thrilled by it
> but she ate it. I'll try some of the Hill's food this evening.
>
> Obviously it will be up to Persia to decide which food she likes better.
> I'm just wondering, if your cats eat either of these, which they prefer.
>
> Jill


0 new messages