OT: deceased cockerel
Christina Websell
My Barnevelder bantam boy had passed away this morning. He had the worst
temper of almost any male chicken I've ever had. For a 2lb chicken he was
very ferocious, and I couldn't feed or water him (or his hens) unless I took
a mesh shield into the run to stop him flying at my face with intent to put
out my eyes.
June told me 7 years ago that I should screw his neck, but it seemed a shame
to kill him for having a bad temper. He was 9 years old which is a good age
to pass away quietly for a chicken.
Oh, happy dance. He's gone and I let him live out his natural life.
YAY!
Tweed
Stormmee
--
Have a wonderful day
"Christina Websell" <spam...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7j9el8F...@mid.individual.net...
Christina Websell
"Stormmee" <rgr...@consolidated.net> wrote in message
news:7j9fepF...@mid.individual.net...
> odd as this sounds i understand it, Lee
>
I have one myself occasionally;-)
Tweed
Stormmee
him, but i do understand being releivd he is gone, Lee
--
Have a wonderful day
"Christina Websell" <spam...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7j9h2iF...@mid.individual.net...
Christina Websell
N always says I should kill my cockerels who have a bad temper, she does. I
can't.
I let them live to torment me for years so when they do go, I'm so glad!
Nine years I put up with him!
I would do it again. I hatched him in my incubator, therefore I felt
obliged to take care of him until the end of his life. And I did.
Tweed
"Stormmee" <rgr...@consolidated.net> wrote in message
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MLB
>
Stormmee
--
Have a wonderful day
"MLB" <mlbr...@nonesuch.com> wrote in message
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Christina Websell
Splutter! It's not his fault, bantam boys like to be fierce, sometimes it's
hard to live with them.
Tweed
MaryL
I remember the bantam chickens my grandparents had when I was a child (we
called them "banties"). They were gorgeous (especially the roosters), but I
clearly remember my grandparents warning us to give them wide berth because
they had "nasty tempers." I never had any problems around them, and I
really enjoyed watching them--but I did take great care not to get too
close!
My grandparents lived on a farm in Ohio. My grandmother always had several
types of chickens, and she really did love those chickens. I can still
picture her "clucking" to them as she scooped grain out of a bucket and
scattered it on the ground for them. They had full "run" of the farm during
the daytime, but they were kept inside the chicken coop at night to protect
them from foxes.
MaryL
Stormmee
... and i think we ate chicken regularily... crabbiest on the ground is
first in the pot... grandmother raised for food as well as eggs. Lee
--
Have a wonderful day
"MaryL" <stan...@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
news:4acfa22b$0$23737$bbae...@news.suddenlink.net...
MaryL
>i was just sitting here thinking about my grandmother, same thing only in
>MO ... and i think we ate chicken regularily... crabbiest on the ground is
>first in the pot... grandmother raised for food as well as eggs. Lee
>
> --
> Have a wonderful day
>
>
Same here...I don't remember the "crabbiest on the ground" idea, but my
grandmother raised chickens both for food and for eggs. It may sound
strange to say that she loved her chickens when she also used them for food,
but it's true.
MaryL
Will in New Haven
You fulfilled your obligation and he ought to have been grateful to
you. But little roosters have lots of anger to vent, for reasons we
will never know. I hope he rests well in the Summer Lands and, when he
returns, it won't be to YOUR henhouse.
--
Will in New Haven
Sherry
I understand this completely. My daughter was gifted with a little
gosling when she
was about 5. He grew into a nasty tempered goose that you could not
turn your back
on or he'd put bruises on the calf of your leg.
He lived to be about four. He just disappeared one day; I imagine it
was coyotes.
I wasn't all that sad.
Bantam chickens are really cute. My aunt & uncle have a pet one; he
drops his
wing and dances about but he's never actually flogged me.
Sherry
Jofirey
He was only behaving in the way he had been bred to behave for
generations. More than one farm family has counted on the banty
roosters as 'watch dogs' with good reason.
'Like a banty rooster' used to be a phrase in common usage.
Still, it has to be a relief to no longer be the focus of his
attitude.
Jo
Christina Websell
"hopitus" <hop...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7336ed0d-e5b0-4e0a...@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 9, 3:44 pm, "MaryL" <stanco...@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER>
wrote:
We had chickens in backyard when I was a kid, but no roosters. My
sister and
I had favorites and when they ended up on the dinner table, we would
not eat them.
At the time, we lived outside city limits of Miami. There were even
horses down the
block
__
My grandfather bought some day-old male chicks, specifically to eat. I was 8
years old and I made a pet of one of them. I called it Snowy.
One day, at the dinner table on a Sunday we had a chicken.
I was about to eat it, when my grandfather mentioned it was Snowy. I left
the table, ran up to the bathroom and threw up.
Tweed
P.S. If you have to eat your children's pet, keep it a secret from them.
Will in New Haven
<spamf...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote:
> "hopitus" <hopi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
I never could understand the kids in my school who raised animals for
their 4-H clubs, or just as part of farm life, and gave them names
and groomed them and petted them and then sent them off to the
slaughter. Any animal I have named and petted is safe from me and safe
from anyone I can stop. I could understand keeping an animal as part
of a herd or flock, not having any connection with it, and then
slaughtering it. After all, I have sent several deer and many quail to
the Eternal Forest, always with respect and in order to eat them, but
I can't understand forming a connection and then doing that.
Christina Websell
"Will in New Haven" <bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote in message
news:451c71ac-585c-475e...@g23g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
--------
I hope so too.
Sadly he is awaiting a flame in my incinerator. I have two options.. I can
leave him on the path outside his run and a fox will take him overnight or
he is cremated.
Although he was an absolute barsteward, I don't want a fox to have the
pleasure of eating any of my chickens. ever, even when they are dead.
He will be cremated, like Francis Drake was.
Tweed
Christina Websell
____
My grandfather should never had let me made a pet of Snowy, he should have
told me not to make pet of any of them since we were going to eat them all.
He never said that at all. He allowed me to make a pet of him and then find
him on my plate.
I still have a photograph of me, aged 8, holding Snowy up in my arms. I
loved him.
What an awful trick to allow a child to believe that a chicken she's grown
to love would not appear on the dinner plate when he did.
I cried and cried.
Tweed
Sherry
<spamf...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote:
> "Will in New Haven" <bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote in messagenews:a9c289f5-981c-499a...@k17g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
That *is* an awful trick, and I don't understand either how those FFA
kids
can raise pets out of sheep/cattle, then sell them for slaughter. I
wasn't
much of a beef eater to begin with, but since we got stuck with my
dad's little hobby herd after he died, they are all pets, and I can't
eat
beef at all. They are gentle creatures mostly. Although we may end
up having to sell them anyway, they are far too expensive to feed
to keep them all as pets. I like cows, but I *hate* the cattle
business.
It's enough to make a vegetarian out of you.
Sherry
Sherry
> On Oct 11, 10:12 am, Will in New Haven
> pets, and then are pictured in local papers beside the pet bull they
> just
> sold for 50K to one of the many meatpacking (slaughter houses) around
> here, usually stating that now they have cash for college. Where I
> come
> from, that would buy you one semester at the U of M. Anyway, such
> heartwarming news stories just *barf me out* like you say.
> Word of cheer: I know some folks up in the foothills rural area whose
> roads
> to their place collapse during every winter and have to use their Snow
> Cats
> (that;s a winter ATV, not an animal) to get supplies from nearest
> little town.
> They maintain a *sheep farm*, exhibit the sheep for prizes and cash
> awards,
> but never selling any for food use. Every one of their sheep has a
> name. Sheep
> is about the only good size animal I am not afraid of, and they like
> petting and
> hoomin company which I give them when I go there. Can't visit in
> winter as I
> can't handle the bad road problem up there. These people do sell wool
> yarn
> and it is fun to watch them shaving the sheep about twice a year or
> so. Sheep
> look funny with no wool on them.
> If you'd like to read about them, here's their website:
>
> http://gfwsheep.com/gfw.html
>
> Warning: the are real farmers....of snimals, and their newsletter is
> filled with farmers' problems
> and weather laments (hard to top me for weather laments, but remember,
> they are up in the
> boonies with cougars and mountain lions eating their pet sheep. Unlike
> cats, you gotta let
> sheep outside. Like many farmers, they are struggling these days
> financially.
> Don't ask me any questions about wool or its products...I am 4+ on the
> allergy scale for wool
> that is not on sheeps.- Hide quoted text -
A neighbor of ours has a large lawn like ours, maybe a couple of
acres. He runs
two or three sheep inside a chainlink fence and unlike us, never has
to spend
four hours mowing the stupid grass. I don't know what's involved in
cleaning
up after them, but their lawn always looks clean and nice, and the
sheep
like lovely live yard ornmanets.
Sherry
MaryL
Well, continuing with this theme...I mentioned that my grandmother had
chickens because she was so fond of them. My mother also kept a few
chickens, but far fewer than my grandmother. One of the chickens met with
an accident (lawn mower) that probably would have been fatal in many cases,
but this chicken survived "very nicely." He lost a leg but jumped around on
one foot with no problem at all. My little sister used to carry him around
as a pet. She was a large leghorn, and she was a very small child--so we
could hardly see her behind the chicken. They were clearly "bonded," and
that chicken lived to a nice old age. There was no question of her ever
ending up in a stew pot. On another occasion, some baby chicks somehow
ended up in a drenching downpour. By the time they were discovered, they
were completely limp and appeared to be dead. My mother placed them on a
towel on an open oven door and turned the heat on just to a "warm" level.
Every one of those chicks dried out, sat up and looked around inquiringly,
and survived the ordeal.
MaryL
MaryL
"Will in New Haven" <bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote in message
news:a9c289f5-981c-499a...@k17g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
I don't understand that, either, even though I grew up in a rural area. Our
pets remained pets forever and were never treated as animals to slaughter.
My grandparents were farmers and were very fond of their animals, but they
never made the mistake of considering their livestock to be "pets." My
grandfather's draft horses were sort of "in-between." They were work
horses, not pets, but there clearly was a bond with them. My grandfather
kept them even when he got tractors (you can see that this was a great many
years ago), and when he retired and moved to Florida for the winter, he made
arrangements for my uncle to give the horses to a good family. My uncle
asked if he didn't really want to sell them. My grandfather's response was
that they had helped to provide a good retirement for him, and now they also
deserved a good retirement.
MaryL
MaryL
MLB
What an admirable gentleman. Wouldn't it be wonderful to have more like
him? MLB
MaryL
>
> What an admirable gentleman. Wouldn't it be wonderful to have more like
> him? MLB
Yes, he was a fantastic person. He died when I was 14 years old, and I
still think of him frequently--always with warm, loving thoughts. He used
to take me with him to sales and auctions, and we would stop at an Amish
restaurant on the way home. I can still pinpoint the exact table we used.
He bought my first pony for me. I was 6 years old, and pony was a small
(and very gentle) Shetland pony. I think he was ahead of his times on
environmental issues, too. Many of the farmers would shoot at birds that
were invading their corn fields. My grandfather planted extra rows of corn
just for that purpose; he said the birds were worth their weight in gold
because of all the insects they ate. He even mounted a bat house on their
own home, the first time I ever saw anyone do that.
Awww...special memories.
Mary
Christina Websell
"Sherry" <srid...@aol.com> wrote in message
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_________
I felt quite bad about being glad he'd gone, you know. But honestly, it's a
real relief.
I only had two worse tempered cockerels than him. They were 12lbs of
seriously dangerous Speckled Sussex boys. They were brothers and lived with
their hens, and being two of them, one could approach me from the front and
the other from the back.
It was their plan to take me out ;-)
I called them the two Attilas.
I was glad when they died too!
I have only one dangerous boy left that I have to use a mesh for. He's a
Sicilian Buttercup, but his brother is perfectly fine.
My Appenzeller boys (4 of them) are perfectly charming. They wouldn't have
a clue why they should attack me and if one of them did, he'd have a brain
tumour which affected his behaviour.
Christina Websell
wanted to kill me if I wanted to feed him or refresh his water.
Now and again I wanted to say "if you can't be nice you won't get either.."
Both N & J advised me to kill him a while ago because of his bad temper.
Couldn't do it.
Glad he is gone but have a sneaking regard for how brave he was.
The little basrd.
Have to admire his spirit.
Tweed
Jofirey
"Will in New Haven" <bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote in
message
news:a9c289f5-981c-499a...@k17g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
*************
That is kind of the whole point. Teaching these kids to care for
animals and to treat them decently, but also teaching them the sort
of detachment necessary if you are going to raise animals for the
table.
After all, almost all farm animals are raised for consumption, or at
least will have to be put down when they are no longer productive.
It is as much as fact of their lives as keeping gas in the car and
keeping the bills paid is a fact of mine.
Jo
Jofirey
Sherry
*****
Now that I never did understand. I knew people growing up that
raised beef cattle for the market, and they were vegetarian.
Also the school I went to sent all its kitchen garbage to pig farms,
which they wanted because the school was vegetarian.
Jo
Stormmmee
only way, by this philosophy to properly show respect and to appreciate what
the animal is giving you... in giving up its life it gives you life, what
greater connection can there be. the true farmer has the same outlook even
if stated differently. Lee
--
Have a great day
"Will in New Haven" <bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote in message
news:a9c289f5-981c-499a...@k17g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
Stormmmee
always did/do the slaughter when the kids aren't there. teaching a child to
care for animals is very important, but taking care of their feelings is
just as important.
btw i have a question for you, you mentioned rats but you have never
mentioned snakes around the birds, does uk not have snakes? Lee
--
Have a great day
"Christina Websell" <spam...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7jeckmF...@mid.individual.net...
Stormmmee
farmer respects every animal and every plant, not only for the food they
provide, but for the slice of beauty of nature they are. it is this love of
nature that has gotten me trough some tough times, Lee
--
Have a great day
"MaryL" <stan...@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
news:4acfaed3$0$23741$bbae...@news.suddenlink.net...
Will in New Haven
> "Will in New Haven" <bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote in
They seemed far from detached, that is the point. I have a friend,
used to be a sister-in-law, who kept rabbits for their meat. She never
treated them as pets or bonded with them in any way. They lived like
rabbit royalty while they lived but she didn't pet or cuddle them or
name them. I think she used a number and letter designation to keep
records for breeding, etc.
moonglow minnow
> What an awful trick to allow a child to believe that a chicken she's grown
> to love would not appear on the dinner plate when he did.
>
> I cried and cried.
You have my sympathy. My father pulled a similar trick with a pig we
were given as a gift that was raised quite deliberately as a pet. I
still cry when I hear Kermit screaming his last in my head.
I think it takes a special kind of sadist to do that to a child.
Maeve >^..^<
--
http://moonglowminnow.wordpress.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/minnow/
Marina
>
> That *is* an awful trick, and I don't understand either how those FFA
> kids
> can raise pets out of sheep/cattle, then sell them for slaughter. I
> wasn't
> much of a beef eater to begin with, but since we got stuck with my
> dad's little hobby herd after he died, they are all pets, and I can't
> eat
> beef at all. They are gentle creatures mostly. Although we may end
> up having to sell them anyway, they are far too expensive to feed
> to keep them all as pets. I like cows, but I *hate* the cattle
> business.
> It's enough to make a vegetarian out of you.
Not replying specifically to you, Sherry, just jumping into the
conversation. I was always a city girl, so never had a close connection
with farm animals. But one summer, there was a pig pen by the shop in
the little village where we shop in the summer, when we're staying on
the island. There was a big pig in the pen. Each time we visited the
village, and while my parents were running errands - grocery-shopping,
fetching the post, visiting the bank - I stayed at the pen and talked to
the pig. It always looked deep into my eyes as if it understood every
word I said. I really fell in love with that pig. Always before that,
and ever after, cats have been the only animal for me, but that pig left
a lasting impression on me. So, the following summer, I was looking
forward to seeing 'my' pig again. Eagerly I ran up to the pen when we
finally went to the village. There was no pen (it had been a simple,
wooden construction). I asked my parents where the pig was, and they
sort of chuckled and said it had probably become a very nice Christmas
ham. They didn't realise how important that pig had become to me. I
think I was depressed about it for the rest of the summer. I must have
been 7 or 8.
--
Marina, Miranda and Caliban.
In loving memory of Frank and Nikki.
Stormmmee
my father is a small farmer, he has cattle, and used to raise pigs... they
are wonderfully intellegint creatures. We had the sam sow for years until
one day it attacked my father. this was at the time that grandchildren were
coming onto the scene, he dispatched all the pigs the next day. my sister
and i were sad but when he showed us the 2 by4 in half we understood. the
issue is not explaining these things up front and helping kids to keep all
of it seperate, Lee
--
Have a great day
"Marina" <franki...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7jfmieF...@mid.individual.net...
Cheryl
> marina,
>
> my father is a small farmer, he has cattle, and used to raise pigs... they
> are wonderfully intellegint creatures. We had the sam sow for years until
> one day it attacked my father. this was at the time that grandchildren were
> coming onto the scene, he dispatched all the pigs the next day. my sister
> and i were sad but when he showed us the 2 by4 in half we understood. the
> issue is not explaining these things up front and helping kids to keep all
> of it seperate, Lee
>
People do manage to raise animals and slaughter them for food without
traumatizing children or treating the animals badly, and as someone who
enjoys eating meat, I'm glad they can. I saw an local show on a small
farm in which they named the sheep, or some of them, but everyone,
including the children, took it quite for granted that they'd end up on
the dinner table.
To a non-farmer, the comment, sparked by a question from the
interviewer, that the meat they were cooking for supper was 'Joe' (or
whatever the name was) was a bit odd, maybe because it was a human name.
And any animal that becomes dangerous does have to be put down.
--
Cheryl
Will in New Haven
wrote:
> Christina Websell wrote:
> > What an awful trick to allow a child to believe that a chicken she's grown
> > to love would not appear on the dinner plate when he did.
>
> > I cried and cried.
>
> You have my sympathy. My father pulled a similar trick with a pig we
> were given as a gift that was raised quite deliberately as a pet. I
> still cry when I hear Kermit screaming his last in my head.
>
> I think it takes a special kind of sadist to do that to a child.
I cry with you. The entire concept makes me seethe with anger and
terror for the child you were and for Kermit.
Stormmmee
food without having issues about it.
one of the things that was impressed on me at an early age is that all of
the food animals simply would never have been here if they were not going to
be eaten. another precept is that treating these animals badly is not only
cruel it is stupid. the brood animals are parteners with the farmer, and if
they are malnurished, treated badly or not cared for propeerly it is not
only a sin to do so it is a detriment to the family livelyhood. i am
having some difficulty explaining this because it has always been a part of
my life, and i get so amased at some of the misconceptions, and amased at
families that did traumatise their children it is so odd, and in a way is
reaffirmation of my parents upbringing, and this discussion has made me once
again grateful for the parents i have, Lee
--
Have a great day
"Cheryl" <cper...@mun.ca> wrote in message
news:7jgoenF...@mid.individual.net...
Stormmmee
confuse, the rasing of the food animal is one thing, how they are processed
in most facilities is another thing entirely, while there can't be
injections, i do think dispatching the food animals can be done in most
instances a hell of a lot better than it is, Lee
--
Have a great day
"hopitus" <hop...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b46b6b4b-2a9a-400e...@x5g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 12, 7:31 am, "Stormmmee" <rgr...@consolidated.net> wrote:
> i can verify that being raised around animals that i knew would be
> someone's
> food without having issues about it.
>
> one of the things that was impressed on me at an early age is that all of
> the food animals simply would never have been here if they were not going
> to
> be eaten. another precept is that treating these animals badly is not only
> cruel it is stupid. the brood animals are parteners with the farmer, and
> if
> they are malnurished, treated badly or not cared for propeerly it is not
> only a sin to do so it is a detriment to the family livelyhood. i am
> having some difficulty explaining this because it has always been a part
> of
> my life, and i get so amased at some of the misconceptions, and amased at
> families that did traumatise their children it is so odd, and in a way is
> reaffirmation of my parents upbringing, and this discussion has made me
> once
> again grateful for the parents i have, Lee
>
> --
> Have a great day"Cheryl" <cperk...@mun.ca> wrote in message
TW for the megasensitive
Well, this has nothing to do with either of you, pets, farms, or
parents, but in my
prime, early 20's, lived in a large (today, even larger) 'burb of town
where much
industry went on...."anything goes" zoning. I had occasion to deliver
a large
draft (form of check) from my workplace to one of the clients therein.
Affable
execs offered to take me on a tour of how "humane" their meatpacking
plant
was (adjoining slaughterhouse included). I am not a sensitive person
at all and
yes, still eat meat but not the quantities men do in general. The
animals in that
place were never anyone's pets...they were cows raised for beef
shipped there
from the beef farms in surrounding towns in same area where most of
citrus
groves are to this day. I am not a PETA fanatic but don't ever be
naive as I was
and for any reason visit such a place. There is no "lethal injection"
there.
Christina Websell
"Stormmmee" <rgr...@consolidated.net> wrote in message
news:7jf2f2F...@mid.individual.net...
> my grandmother and my sister now never says who is getting eaten, both
> women always did/do the slaughter when the kids aren't there. teaching a
> child to care for animals is very important, but taking care of their
> feelings is just as important.
>
> btw i have a question for you, you mentioned rats but you have never
> mentioned snakes around the birds, does uk not have snakes? Lee
>
chickens, chicks or eggs <phew>
http://www.interestinganimals.net/british_snakes/british_snakes.html
It's bad enough having foxes gagging to get at my poultry let alone snakes!!
In my whole life I have seen a grass snake three times. I caught one when I
was a kid and wanted to keep it as a pet. I was not put off by the stinky
stuff it sprayed at me from its vent and hurried back to my grandparent's
house with it.
I put it in a cardboard box but somehow it escaped overnight when I was in
bed.
I wonder how that happened ;-) My grandparents assured me that grass snakes
could easily eat through cardboard boxes and it was a pity that aged 8 I
hadn't realised that. They said it was a pity I hadn't thought about
plastic..
I've seen a smooth snake once, dead at the side of the road, years ago.
I've never seen an adder. I know they exist, but they prefer a different
habitat to the one I live in. Apart from that, apparently they are quite
shy and prefer to disappear if they hear humans approaching.
You could get bitten if you accidentally stepped on one, but even so you are
very likely to be OK with hospital treatment. They wouldn't hunt you ;-)
Tweed
Stormmmee
to get eggs i went with her and she put her hand under the chicken and
pulled out a snake, Lee still makes me shudder
--
Have a great day
"Christina Websell" <spam...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7jmhblF...@mid.individual.net...
Cheryl
> Yes, we have three native species, only one is venomous and none of them eat
> chickens, chicks or eggs <phew>
>
> http://www.interestinganimals.net/british_snakes/british_snakes.html
>
> It's bad enough having foxes gagging to get at my poultry let alone snakes!!
>
> In my whole life I have seen a grass snake three times. I caught one when I
> was a kid and wanted to keep it as a pet. I was not put off by the stinky
> stuff it sprayed at me from its vent and hurried back to my grandparent's
> house with it.
> I put it in a cardboard box but somehow it escaped overnight when I was in
> bed.
> I wonder how that happened ;-) My grandparents assured me that grass snakes
> could easily eat through cardboard boxes and it was a pity that aged 8 I
> hadn't realised that. They said it was a pity I hadn't thought about
> plastic..
>
> I've seen a smooth snake once, dead at the side of the road, years ago.
>
> I've never seen an adder. I know they exist, but they prefer a different
> habitat to the one I live in. Apart from that, apparently they are quite
> shy and prefer to disappear if they hear humans approaching.
> You could get bitten if you accidentally stepped on one, but even so you are
> very likely to be OK with hospital treatment. They wouldn't hunt you ;-)
I nearly did step on an adder on a visit to England. I didn't know at
the time how unusual it was. I was off on a hiking trail just marching
along and spotted it just as my foot was about to descend. It didn't
instantly slither off so I was able to study it carefully and describe
it to some English friends I met for a meal later. They told me it was
poisonous, but not really *deadly* poisonous, and that it was a bit
unusual to see one although they were sometimes spotted near primary
schools, and the children were all told to wear their rainboots until
the danger passed.
--
Cheryl
Stormmmee
--
Have a great day
"Cheryl" <cper...@mun.ca> wrote in message
news:7jmk94F...@mid.individual.net...
Christina Websell
"moonglow minnow" <tahee...@charter.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:7jfipbF...@mid.individual.net...
> Christina Websell wrote:
>
>> What an awful trick to allow a child to believe that a chicken she's
>> grown to love would not appear on the dinner plate when he did.
>>
>> I cried and cried.
>
> You have my sympathy. My father pulled a similar trick with a pig we were
> given as a gift that was raised quite deliberately as a pet. I still cry
> when I hear Kermit screaming his last in my head.
>
> I think it takes a special kind of sadist to do that to a child.
>
I did that myself, as young children do.
I guess he should have told me what would happen to Snowy but I expect he
was afraid it would upset me, which it would have done.
Now what to do - as a grandfather who loved me for sure. Watch the child
get fond of a chicken and play with it - tell her nothing and pretend the
fowl has gone on holiday or tell her the truth when she realise she is about
to eat it?
Now there's a dilemma.
So suddenly I knew when I was about to put the chicken into my mouth. At
that time we only ate chicken at Christmas.
I said to my grandfather "this is Snowy, isn't it?" and he said yes.
Actually, what really happened was that my grandfather bought 12 cockerel
chicks to rear for meat. They started to fight like crazy as they got 20
weeks or so, and Snowy got killed in a fight. Good idea to eat him
immediately I suppose.
I still have a photograph of me aged 8 holding up Snowy for the camera
Tweed
bastX...@sonic.net
> I still have a photograph of me aged 8 holding up Snowy for the camera
Too bad you don't have a scanner!
Joyce
--
Do not walk behind me, for I may not lead. Do not walk ahead of me,
for I may not follow. Do not walk beside me, either. Just leave me
the hell alone. -- Unknown
Christina Websell
Adders do not stalk primary schools. They live in heathland and most Brits
have never even seen one.
Hands up the Brits who have seen an adder.
Hands up the Brits who have seen any snake at all ;-)
Tweed
MatSav
>
> Hands up the Brits who have seen an adder.
> Hands up the Brits who have seen any snake at all ;-)
<fx: Hands stay firmly by my side>
I've seen an adder in the wild. I've also handled "pet" snakes
twice - once at work(!), and once at a Scout Troop meeting.
</fx>
Adrian
In my lifetime I've seen two adders and several grass snakes. One of the
grass snakes was a large female that one of the cats brought home, I don't
know who, I saw three cats staring under a chair in the conservatory and
found the snake. I put it in a box and released it outside.
--
Adrian (Owned by Snoopy, Bagheera & Shadow)
Cats leave pawprints on your heart
http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk
MatSav
Ooops! I meant, of course:
<fx: both arms raised>
...
</fx>
--
MatSav
Cheryl
> They were making fun of you.
> Adders do not stalk primary schools. They live in heathland and most Brits
> have never even seen one.
>
> Hands up the Brits who have seen an adder.
> Hands up the Brits who have seen any snake at all ;-)
I think the adder I saw forgot to read the book that said it was
supposed to live on heathlands, although admittedly it wasn't very far
from the downs, which may or may not count. And my friends didn't say
that adders stalk or hunt schools; they said sometimes - rarely - an
adder was spotted in the area immediately around a school.
Really, you must think I met the rudest people of all, and I can assure
you that's not the case and they weren't the type who like amusing
themselves at someone else's expense.
--
Cheryl
Stormmmee
happened... either i would have wet myself and drowned it, or it would have
bit me multiple times when i passed out and fell onto it. Leee
--
Have a great day
"Cheryl" <cper...@mun.ca> wrote in message
news:7jn1rjF...@mid.individual.net...
Jack Campin - bogus address
Nope.
> Hands up the Brits who have seen any snake at all ;-)
In zoos and pet shops, lots. In the wild, a few grass snakes in
England and some sort of adder in north-east Turkey.
I feel fairly neutral about them. The only life-forms that really
give me the willies are starfish and bristleworms.
==== j a c k at c a m p i n . m e . u k === <http://www.campin.me.uk> ====
Jack Campin, 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland == mob 07800 739 557
CD-ROMs and free stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, and Mac logic fonts
****** I killfile Google posts - email me if you want to be whitelisted ******
Jofirey
"Jack Campin - bogus address" <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote in
message news:bogus-2F5D6A....@news.albasani.net...
>> Hands up the Brits who have seen an adder.
>
> Nope.
>
>> Hands up the Brits who have seen any snake at all ;-)
>
> In zoos and pet shops, lots. In the wild, a few grass snakes in
> England and some sort of adder in north-east Turkey.
>
> I feel fairly neutral about them. The only life-forms that really
> give me the willies are starfish and bristleworms.
>
Starfish? That's about on a par with an aversion to butterflies!
We used to collect them at the beach, along with sand dollars. Of
course there really is no reason behind those feelings.
Jo
Cheryl
>> Hands up the Brits who have seen an adder.
>
> Nope.
>
>> Hands up the Brits who have seen any snake at all ;-)
>
> In zoos and pet shops, lots. In the wild, a few grass snakes in
> England and some sort of adder in north-east Turkey.
>
> I feel fairly neutral about them. The only life-forms that really
> give me the willies are starfish and bristleworms.
>
There are some I like less than others - worms, earwigs, rats and mice
come to mind, and I wouldn't mind the rats and mice so much if I didn't
think they were chewing on the wiring or spreading disease. I was once
allowed to handle a snake in a zoo, which may have helped avoid the
willies with them. And we don't have snakes at all where I grew up, so I
wasn't warned from infancy how nasty and dangerous they were. And some
certainly are dangerous.
One of my sisters has an aversion to spiders, and my mother had a
special horror of the brown recluse, whose bite can be very nasty, when
she lived in the same part of the world they do.
--
Cheryl
Will in New Haven
> do some reading on native life, being connected with what you eat is the
> only way, by this philosophy to properly show respect and to appreciate what
> the animal is giving you... in giving up its life it gives you life, what
> greater connection can there be. the true farmer has the same outlook even
> if stated differently. Lee
Raising livestock and treating them decently is an entirely different
thing than making _pets_ of them. I know the difference and these kids
were way over the other side of it. Some of them ended up hating what
they had done and determined not to be farmers after all.
I have always apologized to and thanked every deer and quail I have
sent to the other side. The last animal I had to kill was a road-
struck doe. Since I was putting her out of her misery, not killing her
for food, I left off the apology and thanks but I did wish her well on
her journey.
Stormmee
respecting the animal, thank you for giving thanks and wishing them well,
your nourishment is increased from bodily sustanance to an inriched soul,
Lee
--
Have a wonderful day
"Will in New Haven" <bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote in message
news:6864b17c-f65f-48eb...@c3g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
Christina Websell
"MaryL" <stan...@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
news:4ad224a9$0$23744$bbae...@news.suddenlink.net...> news:a9c289f5-981c-499a...@k17g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 11, 11:41 am, "Christina Websell"
> <spamf...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> "hopitus" <hopi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:7336ed0d-e5b0-4e0a...@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
>> On Oct 9, 3:44 pm, "MaryL" <stanco...@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > "Stormmee" <rgr...@consolidated.net> wrote in message
>>
>> >news:7j9ntmF...@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> > >i was just sitting here thinking about my grandmother, same thing only
>> > >in
>> > >MO ... and i think we ate chicken regularily... crabbiest on the
>> > >ground
>> > >is
>> > >first in the pot... grandmother raised for food as well as eggs. Lee
>>
>> > > --
>> > > Have a wonderful day
>>
>> > grandmother raised chickens both for food and for eggs. It may sound
>> > strange to say that she loved her chickens when she also used them for
>> > food,
>> > but it's true.
>>
>> > MaryL
>>
>> We had chickens in backyard when I was a kid, but no roosters. My
>> sister and
>> I had favorites and when they ended up on the dinner table, we would
>> not eat them.
>> At the time, we lived outside city limits of Miami. There were even
>> horses down the
>> block
>>
>> __
>> My grandfather bought some day-old male chicks, specifically to eat. I
>> was 8
>> years old and I made a pet of one of them. I called it Snowy.
>> One day, at the dinner table on a Sunday we had a chicken.
>> I was about to eat it, when my grandfather mentioned it was Snowy. I left
>> the table, ran up to the bathroom and threw up.
>
> I never could understand the kids in my school who raised animals for
> their 4-H clubs, or just as part of farm life, and gave them names
> and groomed them and petted them and then sent them off to the
> slaughter. Any animal I have named and petted is safe from me and safe
> from anyone I can stop. I could understand keeping an animal as part
> of a herd or flock, not having any connection with it, and then
> slaughtering it. After all, I have sent several deer and many quail to
> the Eternal Forest, always with respect and in order to eat them, but
> I can't understand forming a connection and then doing that.
>
> --
> Will in New Haven
>
> Our pets remained pets forever and were never treated as animals to
> slaughter. My grandparents were farmers and were very fond of their
> animals, but they never made the mistake of considering their livestock to
> be "pets." My grandfather's draft horses were sort of "in-between." They
> were work horses, not pets, but there clearly was a bond with them. My
> grandfather kept them even when he got tractors (you can see that this was
> a great many years ago), and when he retired and moved to Florida for the
> winter, he made arrangements for my uncle to give the horses to a good
> family. My uncle asked if he didn't really want to sell them. My
> grandfather's response was that they had helped to provide a good
> retirement for him, and now they also deserved a good retirement.
>
I'm fairly sure that my grandfather realised his mistake in letting me make
a pet of one of the cockerels when I burst into tears and threw up when I
found my pet was on the table.
He really loved me, and would have not deliberately upset me for the world.
His own children were terrified of him, he was more than strict. My
youngest uncle told me that he was fascinated by me. I had no fear of him.
I would sit on his foot and insist he rode me up and down on it. So he did.
During the 30's, in the depression, he had to work away from home to get a
living for his wife and children. He was a carpenter.
That did not suit my grandmother, of course. He came home and kept chickens
and grew vegetables during the war to keep his family. I don't suppose that
was good enough either, because looking back, they did not get on. I didn't
realise that as a child when I lived there, I do now.
My mother was afraid of him until the day she died, even though he was long
gone.
I asked her why. Did he beat her? No. It was apparently about how much my
grandmother taught her to fear him because of her own issues.
"What's the worst thing my grandfather did to you, then?" I asked my
mother.
Rushing upstairs and banging on the bottom of the bed when we would not go
to sleep and telling us to shut up, apparently.
I loved him to bits, he was a gardener and I was always with him. In the
greenhouse he pretended there was a big spider. That was not a good idea.
It's made me afraid of big spiders ever since.
Tweed
moonglow minnow
> Actually, what really happened was that my grandfather bought 12 cockerel
> chicks to rear for meat. They started to fight like crazy as they got 20
> weeks or so, and Snowy got killed in a fight. Good idea to eat him
> immediately I suppose.
>
> I still have a photograph of me aged 8 holding up Snowy for the camera
Still heartbreaking, but not so cruel... it still would have been better
for him to gently tell you that those cockerels were going to be eaten
when he saw the first signs of you getting attached, but well... when
hormones take over birds *do* get killed, and it's only practical on a
farm to eat a bird that didn't die of disease. Perhaps you'll meet Snowy
again at the Bridge, free from the hormones that make cockerels fight.
Maeve >^..^<
--
http://moonglowminnow.wordpress.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/minnow/
MaryL
"Jack Campin - bogus address" <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bogus-2F5D6A....@news.albasani.net...
The one thing that I really detest are those huge "cockroaches" (actually,
water bugs) that we have in East Texas. They grow to enormous size when
compared to most insects, they fly, and they can quickly slither under tiny
crevices that look like they could not possibley accomodate a creature of
that size. Fortunately, I seldom see them indoors, but that's because I
have an exterminator come to the house 4 times a year. Of course, all
pesticides have to be safe for my furbabies!
Snakes don't bother me. I give them wide berth until I can be sure they are
not poisonous, but most snakes are benign and even useful. My brother used
to catch snakes when he was a little kid and walk around with them in his
pocket (then would release them back into the creek).
MaryL
Christina Websell
"moonglow minnow" <tahee...@charter.net.invalid> wrote in message
> Christina Websell wrote:
>
>> Actually, what really happened was that my grandfather bought 12 cockerel
>> chicks to rear for meat. They started to fight like crazy as they got 20
>> weeks or so, and Snowy got killed in a fight. Good idea to eat him
>> immediately I suppose.
>>
>> I still have a photograph of me aged 8 holding up Snowy for the camera
>
> Still heartbreaking, but not so cruel... it still would have been better
> for him to gently tell you that those cockerels were going to be eaten
> when he saw the first signs of you getting attached, but well... when
> hormones take over birds *do* get killed, and it's only practical on a
> farm to eat a bird that didn't die of disease. Perhaps you'll meet Snowy
> again at the Bridge, free from the hormones that make cockerels fight.
>
a particular one. "Should I tell her now, or later.."
As it happened, Snowy was the first one to get killed through fighting.
Chicken was a luxury food then, reserved for Christmas.
Of course we ate him, it would have been silly not to, I know that now but I
was allowed to play with him, and the other cockerels and that is not such a
great idea to let a child think they'll be playmates for ever.
Tweed
Jofirey
Not like they waited till you were eating and then announced it.
Might have been better if they had told you before, but its sounds
like it was unlikely there was going to be a good outcome in any
case.
Jo
John F. Eldredge
When I was a child (1960's), the pet stores in Nashville, Tennessee still
sold chicks and ducklings at Easter. One year, our parents bought a
couple of chicks for my sister and myself. We didn't get particularly
attached to them as pets, however, possibly because we already had a
cat. The chicks grew into a couple of young roosters, and my father
fenced off a corner of our back yard to serve as a chicken pen. I
remember how much trouble it was to recapture the roosters if one of them
managed to climb the fence to freedom. Finally, after the neighbors
started complaining about the crowing, my father bought some chicken
parts at the grocery store (making sure that my sister and I knew about
the purchase), then killed and cooked our two roosters instead, letting
us think that the store-bought chicken was being served for supper. Only
after supper did our parents reveal what we had eaten. My sister and I
went "Ewww....", but weren't distraught, since we hadn't become
emotionally attached to the two roosters.
--
John F. Eldredge -- jo...@jfeldredge.com
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better
than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria
Jofirey
"John F. Eldredge" <jo...@jfeldredge.com> wrote in message
news:7juqhvF...@mid.individual.net...
feathers!
We never discussed what the farm did with them however...
Jo
Stormmee
boys in our block... when they returned it saying their mom said no, my
sister said sorry all sales final... i swear she sold the same snake six
times one summer, Lee
--
Have a wonderful day
"MaryL" <stan...@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote in message
news:4ad8eb97$0$23759$bbae...@news.suddenlink.net...
Stormmee
real physical sorts of abuse, beating, berating, sexual, then there is this
inbetween sort of percieved abuse, that regardless of the intent of the
"abuser" is considered abuse because of the sensitivity level of the person
who is feeling abosed.. sort of like sexual harrassment, when i was in
training for what i do now, i was the only woman, every morning we gathered
for coffee before class, who ever told the best joke got their coffee and
morning snack until someone came up with a better joke... the men were a bit
hesitant when i joined the group, fearing i would be offended by the jokes,
i made a bargian with them, that i would just get up and leave if i ever got
too offended... some women would have... i myself had at the time a brother
in law who was a trucker... he told me a joke that got me free coffee and
cakes for a solid month... won't write it here its a bit graphic,
my point is that what YOU consider abuse or not is often percieved by
another as no big deal, and its too bad your mom couldn't consider your
grandfather's intent, and your grandmother's for that matter to see where
the abuse really was coming from. Lee
--
Have a wonderful day
"Christina Websell" <spam...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7jrqr1F...@mid.individual.net...
Stormmee
the corner of the bridge reserved for those who are waiting for tweed, Lee
--
Have a wonderful day
"moonglow minnow" <tahee...@charter.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:7jrsvdF...@mid.individual.net...
Stormmmee
of the whippets are lined up in an neat and orderly fashion, kfc sits in
front... now we all know that tweed won't be there for a long time but kfc,
being kfc, makes them practice their welcome fomation every day so its
purfect.
Lee
--
Have a great day
"hopitus" <hop...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:badef1e4-0e9e-43ce...@h14g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 17, 5:07 pm, "Stormmee" <rgr...@consolidated.net> wrote:
> i just had this vision of kfc whipping him into shape so they could share
> the corner of the bridge reserved for those who are waiting for tweed, Lee
>
> --
> Have a wonderful day
>
> "moonglow minnow" <taheenah...@charter.net.invalid> wrote in message
>
> news:7jrsvdF...@mid.individual.net...
>
>
>
> > Christina Websell wrote:
>
> >> Actually, what really happened was that my grandfather bought 12
> >> cockerel
> >> chicks to rear for meat. They started to fight like crazy as they got
> >> 20
> >> weeks or so, and Snowy got killed in a fight. Good idea to eat him
> >> immediately I suppose.
>
> >> I still have a photograph of me aged 8 holding up Snowy for the camera
>
> > Still heartbreaking, but not so cruel... it still would have been better
> > for him to gently tell you that those cockerels were going to be eaten
> > when he saw the first signs of you getting attached, but well... when
> > hormones take over birds *do* get killed, and it's only practical on a
> > farm to eat a bird that didn't die of disease. Perhaps you'll meet Snowy
> > again at the Bridge, free from the hormones that make cockerels fight.
>
> > Maeve >^..^<
> > --
> >http://moonglowminnow.wordpress.com/
> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/minnow/- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
ROTFL possibly true. KFC is no pushover. And certainly not for a bird.
Christina Websell
Tweed
"Stormmmee" <rgr...@consolidated.net> wrote in message
news:7k183aF...@mid.individual.net...
Stormmee
me morbid or what but then i imagined miss violette doing the same... and
then i burst out laughing trying to figure what the two dog guides would
make of her, Lee
--
Have a wonderful day
"Christina Websell" <spam...@tinawebsell.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7k3kguF...@mid.individual.net...