Question on cooked chicken diet for cats with allergic skin conditions
fem...@nospam.com
causes her to lick parts of her hind legs and feet which causes sores. The
vet thinks its a granuloma problem as she's tested negative for ringworm
and doesn't appear to have fleas (she's mainly white haired).
She's currently on Triamcinolone (1 mg/day). Prednisolone seemed to stop
working as she probably built up a tolerance to it.
Anyway, I'm trying to wean her off of Fancy Feast. Removing wheat glutens
and corn from her diet by using Hills Prescription Diet d/d didn't work.
If I switch to a diet of cooked chicken, what chicken do I buy?
I was looking at the Perdue skinless and boneless breast cuts in the
supermarket which are 99% fat free. It says "no additives" and "mininal
processing".
I was thinking of giving her this in addition to Dermcaps from Drs. Foster
and Smith. It's a vitamin supplement that's high in Omega oils, which are
supposed to heal the skin for cats with allergic conditions.
Comments and any advice would be appreciated. I know there's natural cat
foods out there but I'm worried about going with a small food manufacturer
out of fears of quality control. Some say because they're smaller
distributors, they have better control, but I'm still a little leery.
If only Purina would use their clout, and develop better and more extensive
lines of food. Every time they introduce a "natural" food, I get excited,
only to look at the ingredients and see the same byproducts and mixture of
every protein under the sun.
Sorry to digress. Has anyone had luck with the cooked chicken diet?
Roby
glad they leave it out!)
I tried liquid DermCaps on my granuloma kitty. He refused to eat food
having the oil mixed in and gave me a real battle when I tried to give
it by mouth. Capsules are probably better. Dr F&W's shipping and
handling charge is hefty - sometimes better to buy locally.
Lynne
> Comments and any advice would be appreciated. I know there's natural
> cat foods out there but I'm worried about going with a small food
> manufacturer out of fears of quality control. Some say because
> they're smaller distributors, they have better control, but I'm still
> a little leery. If only Purina would use their clout, and develop
> better and more extensive lines of food. Every time they introduce a
> "natural" food, I get excited, only to look at the ingredients and see
> the same byproducts and mixture of every protein under the sun.
I would look at California Naturals chicken and brown rice canned cat food.
I wouldn't call them a small company, and they have an excellent
reputation. I just noticed my feed supply store has started carrying them
so it is getting easier to find.
The ingredients are (listed in order):
Chicken
Chicken Broth
Herring
Egg
Ground Brown Rice
Sunflower Oil
Flaxseed
Guar Gum
Taurine
Vitamins/Minerals
--
Lynne
meeee
feeding chicken and kangaroo mince. My clowder react to a lot of commercial
foods with diarhea and/or hurking and as they are mostly littermates &
mother I think it's genetic. i give them mince with some grated carrot, a
small amount of quick cooking oats, some cold pressed olive oil, an
occasional egg yolk, and vitamin powder (including taurine of course) mixed
in. Ever since I changed them, there is no smelly pooping, flatulence, and
regurgitating as previously experienced. They are all healthy and shiny,
have great immune systems andno hairball trouble anymore either. So I'd
definitely say go ahead, as it's the only way I was able to solve my allergy
problems.
hamand...@betweentheknees.com
>Not sure about chicken as I'm not in your area, but I've had great success
>feeding chicken and kangaroo mince.
I'm all out of Kangaroo so I called my supermarket and they seem to be
as well :-)
-mhd
meeee
<hamand...@betweentheknees.com> wrote in message
news:88ekl2lrqrkg9jdke...@4ax.com...
Lol Really? well there's plenty here if you want some....skippy seems to be
very high on the pet ingredients list for some reason :)
cybercat
I imagine you would not be feeding it to breeder cats, in any case.
Phil P.
<fem...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:IO2dnYhN8LwvIsTY...@giganews.com...
>
> I was thinking of giving her this in addition to Dermcaps from Drs. Foster
> and Smith. It's a vitamin supplement that's high in Omega oils, which are
> supposed to heal the skin for cats with allergic conditions.
If you're trying to treat allergic skin conditions, DermCaps are probably
the worst thing to use. DermCaps are very high in omega-6 fatty acids--
omega-6s are *pro*inflammatory-- which is probably why prednisolone seemed
to stop working.
You might want to try 3V Caps HP liquid - its made by the same company (DVM
Pharmaceuticals).
http://dvmpharmaceuticals.com/3VHPdetailsheet.pdf
3V Caps are very high in omega-3 fatty acids-- which are anti-inflammatory.
Omega-3s and omega-6s compete for the same enzymes that omega-6s need to
generate an allergic reaction. So, increasing tissue concentrations of
omega-3s reduces the inflammatory responses.
Phil
hamand...@betweentheknees.com
Breeder cats? Do you mean cats for breeding or cats from breeders? In
any case neither scenario applies to my 2 boys.
-mhd
hamand...@betweentheknees.com
That to me seems sad just like eating Flipper would be :-)
-mhd
fem...@nospam.com
news:Xns987B6AD4953EBHD...@216.196.97.142:
> I would look at California Naturals chicken and brown rice canned cat
> food. I wouldn't call them a small company, and they have an
> excellent reputation. I just noticed my feed supply store has started
> carrying them so it is getting easier to find.
>
> The ingredients are (listed in order):
> Chicken
> Chicken Broth
> Herring
> Egg
> Ground Brown Rice
> Sunflower Oil
> Flaxseed
> Guar Gum
> Taurine
> Vitamins/Minerals
Thanks for the advice but the mixture of different proteins is what I'm
trying to avoid. There's fish, poultry and dairy in the above formulation.
fem...@nospam.com
news:A6u6h.5612$dh7.1045@trnddc01:
Thanks for the info. I haven't given her Dermcaps or any vitamin
supplements yet. The Prednisolone stopped working on its own.
Phil - Can you mix this liquid with her food as I find it hard to
administer the meds orally? What's your opinion of a cooked chicken
diet? I've heard that some holistic vets recomment raw chicken, but I've
never heard of them adding taurine to the preparation.
More importantly, have you seen any cat that's been cured of this
granuloma (or allergic problem which causes them to excessively lick the
hind legs which causes wounds)?
Does anyone know of good cat sites that describe alternate diets? I'm
going to do some searching. Perhaps Catster or some other site has a
link.
fem...@nospam.com
news:A6u6h.5612$dh7.1045@trnddc01:
> You might want to try 3V Caps HP liquid - its made by the same company
> (DVM Pharmaceuticals).
>
> http://dvmpharmaceuticals.com/3VHPdetailsheet.pdf
I see it here.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=3447&N=2002+
113617
It says that the capsule can be punctured and spread over the cat's food.
The question is whether they'll still eat it!
Jack Campin - bogus address
> causes her to lick parts of her hind legs and feet which causes sores.
> working as she probably built up a tolerance to it.
> Anyway, I'm trying to wean her off of Fancy Feast. Removing wheat glutens
> and corn from her diet by using Hills Prescription Diet d/d didn't work.
Whatever else you try, don't reintroduce gluten. If her skin condition
is anything like gluten-induced dermatitis in humans (dermatitis
herpetiformis) it could take a long time to clear up. In humans it
typically takes a year.
In humans, dermatitis herpetiformis is sometimes treated with dapsone
(developed as an anti-leprosy drug). No idea if that's relevant to cats.
============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557
Jo Firey
<fem...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:AYKdncfnCOYIScfY...@giganews.com...
Dairy?
BTW when we are trying to avoid food allergy we use ground lamb with rice
and or rolled oats.
Jo
PawsForThought
fem...@nospam.com wrote:
More importantly, have you seen any cat that's been cured of this
> granuloma (or allergic problem which causes them to excessively lick the
> hind legs which causes wounds)?
> Does anyone know of good cat sites that describe alternate diets? I'm
> going to do some searching. Perhaps Catster or some other site has a
> link.
This is a good site that might have information you're looking for:
www.catinfo.org
I feed my cats a raw homemade diet and I use a whole body fish oil made
by Carlson's, which is very high quality. You can find it in most
health food type markets. I do prick the capsule and put it over my
cats' food and they have no problems with it.
As to a cooked chicken diet, I would just make sure you're following a
well-researched recipe and make sure to add in the necessary
supplements. If it were my cat, I would try a well balanced raw diet
with no grains.
Jack Campin - bogus address
> and or rolled oats.
Rice is fine, oats contains gluten - in humans there are some people
who can tolerate oat gluten but not wheat gluten, but it's much more
common for people to be intolerant to both.
I haven't found a good description of coeliac disease in cats, but
that's obviously what Splodge has got. He's splendidly healthy now,
but while he was a kitten and still getting catfood with "cereals"
in it, it looked like he was going to waste away and die. He still
gets godawful smelly diarrhoea after even tiny traces of wheat.
cybercat
<hamand...@betweentheknees.com> wrote in message
news:1bbll29j66421rd23...@4ax.com...
"Mee" said that she "breeds Siamese cats." She's a backyard breeder.
cybercat
Many brands of Fancy Feast have a single meat source, if I recall correctly.
Lynne
<bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Whatever else you try, don't reintroduce gluten. If her skin condition
> is anything like gluten-induced dermatitis in humans (dermatitis
> herpetiformis) it could take a long time to clear up. In humans it
> typically takes a year.
>
> In humans, dermatitis herpetiformis is sometimes treated with dapsone
> (developed as an anti-leprosy drug). No idea if that's relevant to cats.
Makes sense. Leprosy is a granulomatous process.
--
Lynne
"Every once in a while, the tables are turned and we get to share our lives
with an animal who takes care of their human." - Tara, rpdb
Lynne
> Thanks for the advice but the mixture of different proteins is what
> I'm trying to avoid. There's fish, poultry and dairy in the above
> formulation.
oh sorry! I must have misread your post.
I would worry about canned food having trace elements of what you are
trying to avoid. I think a home prepared diet might be safest for your
cat, with the proper supplements added (such as Taurine).
I know it sounds overwhelming to think about, but if you cook in batches,
it's not too bad. I have a dog who eats only baked chicken and white rice.
We cook for her 2-3 times a week and it's pretty simple, especially once
you get into the routine. I buy frozen boneless, skinless plain chicken
breasts, cover them in water and bake. Then I use the water from the pan I
baked the chicken in to prepare the rice (adding what I need from the tap).
She LOVES her homecooked meals.
Jack Campin - bogus address
> it's not too bad. I have a dog who eats only baked chicken and white rice.
> We cook for her 2-3 times a week and it's pretty simple, especially once
> you get into the routine. I buy frozen boneless, skinless plain chicken
> breasts, cover them in water and bake. Then I use the water from the pan
> I baked the chicken in to prepare the rice (adding what I need from the
> tap). She LOVES her homecooked meals.
That might be okay for a dog, but a cat needs much more calcium. Added
bone from whatever source would be essential.
Lynne
<bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> That might be okay for a dog, but a cat needs much more calcium. Added
> bone from whatever source would be essential.
I wasn't recommending the same diet for a cat. Just illustrating that it's
do-able to prepare food for any pet.
I agree that chicken and rice wouldn't work for a cat. Can a cat eat raw
chicken with bones safely? If so, that might be even simpler. Obviously
cooked bones are out of the question.
Jack Campin - bogus address
> chicken with bones safely? If so, that might be even simpler. Obviously
> cooked bones are out of the question.
I've thought about that; the problem is that chickens are much larger
than the prey cats evolved to deal with, so they wouldn't even try to
eat the bones. Some sort of really powerful blender ought to do the
trick, that's what the catfood manufacturers use.
Bones are obviously something cats really, really like. The one time
you could be sure Ishmael would pull rank as Boss Cat was when there
was a big warm bone to chew on. Macho "keep off!" growls that would
do credit to a puma.
Lynne
<bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> I've thought about that; the problem is that chickens are much larger
> than the prey cats evolved to deal with, so they wouldn't even try to
> eat the bones. Some sort of really powerful blender ought to do the
> trick, that's what the catfood manufacturers use.
I'll bet a good food processor with a steel blade would do the trick. Add
some chunks of raw chicken to the mash and I imagine a kitty would be in
heaven!
> Bones are obviously something cats really, really like. The one time
> you could be sure Ishmael would pull rank as Boss Cat was when there
> was a big warm bone to chew on. Macho "keep off!" growls that would
> do credit to a puma.
I'm always so amused when my little kitties emit those kind of growls!
Phil P.
<fem...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:_N2dnZsZXpDfS8fY...@giganews.com...
3V Caps HP liquid has a very fishy taste- many cats will lick it up
straight. I squirt it on a ceramic tea bag holder- my cats laps it right
up. If you mix it in the food, use a small amount of food so she'll get the
whole dose.
Liquids are easy to give to cats. If you use 3V Caps HP, she'll only need
.75 to1 ml. The tip of a 1 ml oral syringe fits in the gap between her
canines and carnassials without having to open her mouth.
What's your opinion of a cooked chicken
> diet? I've heard that some holistic vets recomment raw chicken, but I've
> never heard of them adding taurine to the preparation.
I don't recommend homemade diets for cats unless you know what you're doing.
>
> More importantly, have you seen any cat that's been cured of this
> granuloma (or allergic problem which causes them to excessively lick the
> hind legs which causes wounds)?
If it looks something like this-
http://maxshouse.com/Dermatology-Illus/allergic_dermatitis.jpg Yes--
If it looks something like this-
http://maxshouse.com/Dermatology-Illus/Eosinophilic_plaque_on_ventral_abdomen.jpg
No- only managed with steroids and/or immunosupressive drugs.
> Does anyone know of good cat sites that describe alternate diets? I'm
> going to do some searching. Perhaps Catster or some other site has a
> link.
Try Hill's Prescription z/d Ultra Allergen Free Feline.
Good luck,
Phil
Phil P.
<fem...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:9cOdnamTKLVXRcfY...@giganews.com...
That's the old formula- it requires a large dose.
Look for 3V Caps *HP* liquid. Its really good stuff-- not only for the skin
but for the kidneys as well.
Phil
meeee
"Jack Campin - bogus address" <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bogus-3506C4....@news.news.demon.net...
>> I agree that chicken and rice wouldn't work for a cat. Can a cat eat raw
>> chicken with bones safely? If so, that might be even simpler. Obviously
>> cooked bones are out of the question.
>
> I've thought about that; the problem is that chickens are much larger
> than the prey cats evolved to deal with, so they wouldn't even try to
> eat the bones. Some sort of really powerful blender ought to do the
> trick, that's what the catfood manufacturers use.
>
> Bones are obviously something cats really, really like. The one time
> you could be sure Ishmael would pull rank as Boss Cat was when there
> was a big warm bone to chew on. Macho "keep off!" growls that would
> do credit to a puma.
I'd be careful with blending bones though; even uncooked chicken bones can
be very sharp when ground up, and will get stuck in a cat's mouth, throat or
gut and may cause severe health problems. We've had to outlaw even chicken
necks after a few nasty incidents. If you really want to home cook your
food, as Phil said, don't do it unless you know what you're doing.
Improperly stored food can cause gastro, and some pet meats, if not prepared
correctly by the manufacturer, can carry parasites. If you are serious about
it and don't mind putting the work in, talk to your vet, and don't even
think about home cooking unless you are adding a proper cat vitamin
supplement to the mix, as a 'just in case' measure. This should give the
calcium as well; check it with your vet. Good luck!!
Marina
>
> I've thought about that; the problem is that chickens are much larger
> than the prey cats evolved to deal with, so they wouldn't even try to
> eat the bones. Some sort of really powerful blender ought to do the
> trick, that's what the catfood manufacturers use.
My cats sometimes eat chicken wings, bones and all. My niece knows a
breeder who feeds her cats only chicken wings, and they thrive on that.
Of course, it's not to be recommended in areas where salmonella is
commonly found in chicken. Though I've also heard the theory that cats'
metabolisms are so fast that salmonella doesn't have time to 'take.'
--
Marina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki.
Stories and pics at http://koti.welho.com/mkurten/
Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/
and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki
Jo Firey
"Jack Campin - bogus address" <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bogus-3506C4....@news.news.demon.net...
>> I agree that chicken and rice wouldn't work for a cat. Can a cat eat raw
>> chicken with bones safely? If so, that might be even simpler. Obviously
>> cooked bones are out of the question.
>
> I've thought about that; the problem is that chickens are much larger
> than the prey cats evolved to deal with, so they wouldn't even try to
> eat the bones. Some sort of really powerful blender ought to do the
> trick, that's what the catfood manufacturers use.
>
> Bones are obviously something cats really, really like. The one time
> you could be sure Ishmael would pull rank as Boss Cat was when there
> was a big warm bone to chew on. Macho "keep off!" growls that would
> do credit to a puma.
>
That brings back a very old memory of the first time we saw our Sam. We had
only been in Alaska for a few months, and were looking for a Siamese kitten.
When we arrived at the house to check the litter out, eight tiny little
Siamese kittens were ranged along a caribou leg bone in the family garage.
Gnawing their little hearts out and growling like the fierce wild animals
they thought they were.
Jo
srid...@aol.com
Marina wrote:
> Jack Campin - bogus address wrote:
> >
> > I've thought about that; the problem is that chickens are much larger
> > than the prey cats evolved to deal with, so they wouldn't even try to
> > eat the bones. Some sort of really powerful blender ought to do the
> > trick, that's what the catfood manufacturers use.
>
> My cats sometimes eat chicken wings, bones and all. My niece knows a
> breeder who feeds her cats only chicken wings, and they thrive on that.
> Of course, it's not to be recommended in areas where salmonella is
> commonly found in chicken. Though I've also heard the theory that cats'
> metabolisms are so fast that salmonella doesn't have time to 'take.'
>
> --
> Marina, Miranda and Caliban. In loving memory of Frank and Nikki.
I asked a vet once, and he told me that salmonella isn't the issue with
cats that it is with humans. I also know a lot of folks who give their
cats raw wings. I haven't yet, although I know especially Frank would
probably love it. He's my beg-at-the-counter for bits of raw meat
kitty.
Sherry
Phil P.
"Marina" <franki...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4s27t2F...@mid.individual.net...
Though I've also heard the theory that cats'
> metabolisms are so fast that salmonella doesn't have time to 'take.'
Its not their metabolism that makes cats resistant to salmonella- unless
they're stressed- its the acidity of their stomach (pH 1 or 2). However,
salmonella that skirts or survives the stomach's acidity can get into the
blood and eventually the saliva. When the cat grooms herself or other cats
in the house, she can contaminate their coats and subsequently the
environment-- salmonella can survive for a long time outside of the host;
so, fromite transmission to humans and other cats can also happen.
Phil
PawsForThought
srid...@aol.com wrote:
> I asked a vet once, and he told me that salmonella isn't the issue with
> cats that it is with humans. I also know a lot of folks who give their
> cats raw wings. I haven't yet, although I know especially Frank would
> probably love it. He's my beg-at-the-counter for bits of raw meat
> kitty.
>
> Sherry
Hi Sherry,
I've been feeding my cats a homemade raw diet for about 6 years now and
never had a problem with salmonella. I'm also on a list of about 1,000
members and I don't recall ever hearing about a case of salmonella. As
with our own food, safety precautions in the handling should be taken.
Cats eat their prey raw, and they're better able than us to resist
salmonella. Their digestive tracts are shorter than ours and their
stomachs are very acidic which helps them digest raw meat.
jXwXeXr...@sonic.net
> I've been feeding my cats a homemade raw diet for about 6 years now and
> never had a problem with salmonella. I'm also on a list of about 1,000
> members and I don't recall ever hearing about a case of salmonella.
I remember a woman on this list whose cat had a severe case of salmonella
and almost died, several years ago. So I guess it can happen sometimes.
> Cats eat their prey raw
Yes, but that prey is usually freshly killed and hasn't had time to rot.
(Cats don't usually eat carrion, do they? I know that lions steal kills
from other animals, but those are usually fresh, too.) Salmonella isn't a
problem with prey animals in the wild - it's mostly an issue on farms,
especially when chickens are kept in very close proximity to each other.
Joyce
Rene S.
Lynne wrote:
> on Wed, 15 Nov 2006 22:04:03 GMT, Jack Campin - bogus address
> <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > That might be okay for a dog, but a cat needs much more calcium. Added
> > bone from whatever source would be essential.
>
> I wasn't recommending the same diet for a cat. Just illustrating that it's
> do-able to prepare food for any pet.
>
> I agree that chicken and rice wouldn't work for a cat. Can a cat eat raw
> chicken with bones safely? If so, that might be even simpler. Obviously
> cooked bones are out of the question.
>
> --
> Lynne
Check out the site that Paws for Thought listed:
This is a good site that might have information you're looking for:
www.catinfo.org
It has step by step instructions for making raw food. the author uses a
meat grinder to grind up the raw meat with bones.
You can also purchase a raw diet if this seems overwhelming (like it
does to me). I put Nature's Variety raw.
fem...@nospam.com
>>
>> More importantly, have you seen any cat that's been cured of this
>> granuloma (or allergic problem which causes them to excessively lick
>> the hind legs which causes wounds)?
>
> If it looks something like this-
> http://maxshouse.com/Dermatology-Illus/allergic_dermatitis.jpg
> Yes--
>
> If it looks something like this-
> http://maxshouse.com/Dermatology-Illus/Eosinophilic_plaque_on_ventral_a
> bdomen.jpg No- only managed with steroids and/or immunosupressive
> drugs.
>
>
>> Does anyone know of good cat sites that describe alternate diets?
>> I'm going to do some searching. Perhaps Catster or some other site
>> has a link.
>
> Try Hill's Prescription z/d Ultra Allergen Free Feline.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Phil
>
>
>
Thanks for your advice. I think it looks more like the first picture
(although it's very small). She has scabs on her hind legs or just to the
left of her right hind leg that develop the day after she licks it raw.
I don't see anything on her stomach.
Have you had luck with cats actually liking the Hills z/d canned food,
especially if they're used to Fancy Feast, which seems like a drug that
cats get addicted to!? I would love to buy a case of the stuff, as that
seems like the only way to get it by prescription from pet food stores, but
if she doesn't eat can one, it's just a waste of money.
Phil P.
<fem...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jNedna5Ub8QnNf_Y...@giganews.com...
Hill's has a 100% money back guarantee- if you cat doesn't like any of their
foods you can return it.
Phil