Can wild parrots be tamed ?
Francois Duboisl
I live in Hong Kong and would like to have a parrot.
When I went to the bird market to have a look at the parrots available I
saw that prices between parrots of the same breed were very different. I
was told that the reason for that is that the expensive ones were brought
up by humans and the other ones were wild.
As you may imagine, I can not afford the "brought up by human" kind of
parrot (which were very friendly towards the visitors in the shop).
I would like to know if it is possible to tame and "make friends" with a
parrot which has been captured in the wild and brought into a cage ?
Thanks a lot in advance for your advice,
Francois
ge...@hkstar.com
Gloria Heim
This may be an unpopular opinion but the answer to your question is yes
BUT I would not support persons that capture wild birds. We have plenty
of birds available by very responsible breeders. How would you feel if
you were yanked from your natural home, your ability to walk was taken
away and they stuffed you in a room with four walls? I would never
support or help to perpetuate this cruel, cruel activity.
Gloria
Kevin Chu
Francois Duboisl wrote:
> I would like to know if it is possible to tame and "make friends" with a
> parrot which has been captured in the wild and brought into a cage ?
Yes, it's possible, but you should do it only if, by turning this
formerly-wild parrot into a pet, you do not promote the capturing of
parrots out of the wild.
You could get some old parrot books and read the sections on taming (as
opposed to training). Be careful of all the other info (e.g. nutrition,
safe foods, household hazards, hygiene) in old books, though, because it
will be out of date and very-possibly wrong.
Kevin
--
Kevin Chu
Mail: ke...@portal.ca
URL: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/6871/
grauer-gray
I agree. Most birds that are taken from their wild homes die on the trip,
and some of those that make it may be sick. It is illegal to bring wild
birds into the U. S. I don't know if it is legal in other countries.
Kristen with :>s Para and Keet
Doug Cook
Wild parrots have been tamed at least since the time of Alexander the
Great-
and there are far more wild-caught pet parrots in the world than there
are captive-raised pet parrots. In my experience, a properly tamed
wild-caught
bird is usually a better-mannered, and manageable pet than a spoiled
rotten
hand-raised bird.
It does take some time and work, but it is
completely possible to make a good pet of
a wild-caught bird. In fact you can usually
tame a wild bird in less time than you can hand-raise a baby.
I'm not sure how long Kristen has worked in the bird importation
business, but her statement that MOST birds die in the process is
inaccurate and misleading-she
apparently is also ignorant of the quarentine process in the US that
is
designed to intercept sick birds---according to the USDA the worst year
for import mortality was 1982 with a
loss of 7.2 per cent (thats seven point two) not perfect, but FAR from
MOST.
From the late 70,s thru 1993 losses averaged less than 3% per year.
Responsible importation was halted in the US because of people repeating
innaccurate figures and horror stories-as
a direct result, smuggling has become more profitable--and it follows
that the losses and abuses of wild birds have in-creased as well. Legal
importers had to maintain standards and were well-regulated--smugglers
are not, but apparently people like Kristen are happy to
support these butchers by contiuing to lie
about legal importation. Maybe she'd be
happier if Gould was a smuggler......
Doug C.
PARROTS SHOULD BE FREE
(or at least, not too expensive)
DC 2/98
CaveCanems
"grauer-gray" <graue...@erols.com> wrote:
>It is illegal to bring wild
>birds into the U. S.
I believe you, but when did that change? (Not active in birds right now) It
wasn't too long ago that many of the birds in pet stores were imported wild
caught parrots. What happened?
Sarah
______________________________
"Felicitas Est Parvus Canis Calidus"
______________________________
Jonathan Higbee
On 16 Mar 1998 08:00:19 GMT in rec.pets.birds, the entity "Francois
Duboisl" <ge...@hkstar.com> caused to be written:
>I live in Hong Kong and would like to have a parrot.
>When I went to the bird market to have a look at the parrots available I
>saw that prices between parrots of the same breed were very different. I
>was told that the reason for that is that the expensive ones were brought
>up by humans and the other ones were wild.
>As you may imagine, I can not afford the "brought up by human" kind of
>parrot (which were very friendly towards the visitors in the shop).
Based on my personal experience and what I have observed with others,
the "brought up by human" kind is usually the kind suitable for up
close first hand interaction - the kind more likely to love being
around you. The non-brought-up-by-human kind are generally more
suitable as breeder birds and not close pets. There are selected
exceptions with individuals, but that's the general rule.
>I would like to know if it is possible to tame and "make friends" with a
>parrot which has been captured in the wild and brought into a cage ?
I don't know whether Hong Kong allows widespread importation of
wild-caught birds. If so then I would recommend biting the bullet and
buying a captive raised one to do your part to discourage unrestricted
capture of endangered birds.
One thing you might consider is buying direct from a breeder. You'll
usually end up payment less than full retail. Perhaps the following
avian veterinarian can direct you to a local bird club and/or bird
breeders:
Nathalie Mauroo, DVM
19a Sun Lung Wai- Mui Wo
Lantau Island
Hong Kong
China
852 2984 7484
------
Jonathan Higbee - petc...@bigfoot.com
***To help legalize native-to-the-US crow family
birds as pets go to:
http://www.ieighty.net/~jhigbee/congress.html
Asher Moore
CaveCanems (cavec...@aol.com) wrote:
: "grauer-gray" <graue...@erols.com> wrote:
:
: >It is illegal to bring wild
: >birds into the U. S.
:
: I believe you, but when did that change? (Not active in birds right now) It
: wasn't too long ago that many of the birds in pet stores were imported wild
: caught parrots. What happened?
I can say that in about 1990, it was legal, and unfortuneately,
widely-practiced. :(
One of the biggest guilts I carry in life (hey, everyone's got
some!) is that when my ex-wife and I fell in love with a yellow naped
amazon at a pet shop where we lived at that time, we knew /nothing/ about
the practice. (In fact, I was afraid of parrots, although I loved them at
a distance. heh heh)
The little rascal sidled up to me, and got close to my ear and
whispered, "oh loooook at the pretty baby bird... i love you." and it was
all over. Phooey! He got me over my fear (well mostly. heh. it's not *I*
who handles him when he's really cranky. <wink>) and I gave him a home.
We brought him to a local Avian vet (having enough sense to know
if there ARE avain vets, a parrot should go to it), and were told he was
indeed no older than four months old. ...the vet clipped off the ring
around his leg, feeling it a 'danger' to him- but advised we kept it.
Which of course, we did.
Unfortuneately, some year or so later, we saw an expose on TV,
about Bird-Smuggling and the more Legal practice of wild-caught bird
importation. ...and with MUCH guilt on my behalf, discovered that the
little band /he/ had worn, was in fact an importation quarentine ring. :(
:( :(
I'd ASKED the dealer if he was wild or bred here, and she of
course, had lied and said he'd been 'hand raised'... which I suppose was a
half-truth, really, since he'd have had to have been a much younger baby
when he was caught. :( I have always felt very badly about it, but it was
ignorance that had me paying a ton o cash for a bird who 1) shouldn't have
been priced so high, since he was not bred in the US, and 2) should NEVER
have been taken from his native country.
Here's hoping that relating my mistake, keeps someone ELSE from
not understanding, and inadvertantly helping along the wild bird trade. :(
Asher
owned by Carpathian. ;)
Jonathan Higbee
On 20 Mar 1998 01:04:27 GMT in rec.pets.birds, the entity
cavec...@aol.com (CaveCanems) caused to be written:
>"grauer-gray" <graue...@erols.com> wrote:
>
>>It is illegal to bring wild
>>birds into the U. S.
>
>I believe you, but when did that change? (Not active in birds right now) It
>wasn't too long ago that many of the birds in pet stores were imported wild
>caught parrots. What happened?
In the US: The Wild Bird Conservation Act of 1992 (WBCA).
All CITES listed birds are banned (almost 1000 species), except those
on the "approved" list (an instance of which is at:
http://www.fws.gov/r9dia/wbcaacbs.html
). From what I understand exception permits are available for: a.) to
bring up to two birds in if you've been outside the country for over a
year, or b.) for "approved" cooperative breeding programs, or c.)
possibly for zoos & science.
For further information on these items I suggest you go to the
following page and contact the organization mentioned at the bottom:
http://www.upatsix.com/afa/current.htm
-----------
CricketRAH
> One of the biggest guilts I carry in life (hey, everyone's got
>some!) is that when my ex-wife and I fell in love with a yellow naped
>amazon at a pet shop where we lived at that time, we knew /nothing/ about
>the practice.
Guilt doesn't add anything positive to your life. It doesn't do anything
positive for your bird, either. Put that behind you. You love your bird, he
loves you... that is what matters.
Buster is a 13 yr old wild caught Amazon. He was caught while it was still
legal, although not prefered. My children's dr. obtained it legally, I have all
his papers. They had to get rid of him, and I could not resist as I knew I
would be able to give him a better home. I have made such strides with him it
is so gratifying. I do not in any way advocate the practice of snatching wild
birds but there are some, many in fact, in existance now and it is our duty to
take the best car of them that we can, and educate others. That's all anyone
can do, I think.
Cricket
Doug Cook
Asher
Chances are that your bird was hand-raised, even if imported--this was
fairly common with DYH, Naoes, Blue-Fronted, and Red-lored Amazon
parrots up untill the moratorium went into effect in 1993. Since it
takes just as long to feed-out an import as it does a domestic bird,
prices were usually identical.
Again I stress not to confuse legal importation and smuggling-there is a
world of difference in how the birds were handled. Believe me, importers
were well-regulated, andaware that you could not stay in business if all
you had were sick and abused birds. I 've seen most of the large import
operations, and the birds were ALWAYS handled better at the stations
than most have be led to believe
by special interest groups and the lunatic fringe (such as WWF,
Greenpeace, ASPCA etc.)
I believe most of tthe problems started when these birds reached the
inexperienced consumer--most parrots easily endured collection,
transport, quarentine etc.,
But these birds likely had trouble adapting to cigarette smoke,
cleaning products, dogs, cats , kids, poor diets, no Vet care
(PIJAC says less than 10% of bird owners ever see a Vet with their bird)
and just plain ignorance.
My best pet and performing birds are all
imports, and I feel no guilt about it at all-but then again I know how
imports were handled from experience, not from the hysterical falsehoods
spread by people that have no idea of what they are talking about.
Unknown
Although some people will tell you that a wild caught bird has better
color definition & are far more witty & intelligent, I some what
believe most of that BUT!!,,, They make very untrusting pets.. I
think it has something to do with those first few months of their
upbringing in the wild I really don't know... If your strickly going
to breed them then sure..If you want them has a companion
pets....don't bother.. I knew someone who had a Senegal wild caught,
never did like the little PRICK !!... He would coax you over to him as
if he wanted to play with you or scratch his head...as soon as you
went to touch his head WHAM !! If you've ever been bit by Senegal
you'll know what i'm talking about... Their only a 9 inch long Parrot
but they have a hookbill like a knife.... Find yourself a nice hand
raised bird it will pay off in the long run...
P.S ... This bird constantly bites his owner too...
Christine
Let me preface this by saying I grew up in Hong Kong, and lived there
11+ years. I am also a bird-lover, and have checked out most of the
bird-related places there. Last time I was there was in June of last
year.
I think most of the parrots available there are wild-caught--stolen out
of nests when they are very young (or maybe still in the egg). On a
street where vendors sell birds in the Mongkok area of Hong Kong they
had (in June of last year): red-lored amazons, mealy amazons,
yellow-napes, congo african greys, red and rainbow lories, cockatiels,
etc. I think some are bred by the vendors (the smaller birds), but the
parrots are often imported. I don't know what the laws are, but the
vendors would admit they were taken out of the jungle. I wanted to buy
them all (of course this is impossible!) but it is tough to see all
those birds, wild and tame, taken from the wild. They also do not have
a good variety of food, the vendors gave them veggies and sunflower
seeds only (for the lories too!). I don't know of any good,
"legitamite" parrot breeders in HK, but then again, I haven't looked for
one in awhile.
I think it is also worth nothing that if you are an "expat" or are a
foreigner living overseas for a period of time, you need to find out how
to get the bird back home to your country of citizenship if you see
yourself moving back there someday. Good to find out what you need to
do ahead of time. A wild-caught parrot purchased in Hong Kong might be
hard to get into say, the States, Canada, or the UK. I was *SO* tempted
to buy this sweet mealy amazon there, but I didn't want to give the
vendor the sale, and I think I'd have a heck of a time getting him back
into the states. The price tag for this tame bird was HK$7000 -- about
US$900. Prices were about the same there for a parrot as they are here
in the US.
Asher Moore wrote:
> CaveCanems (cavec...@aol.com) wrote:
> : "grauer-gray" <graue...@erols.com> wrote:
> :
> : >It is illegal to bring wild
> : >birds into the U. S.
> :
> : I believe you, but when did that change? (Not active in birds right
> now) It
> : wasn't too long ago that many of the birds in pet stores were
> imported wild
> : caught parrots. What happened?
>
>
> I can say that in about 1990, it was legal, and
> unfortuneately,
> widely-practiced. :(
>
> One of the biggest guilts I carry in life (hey, everyone's got
>
> some!) is that when my ex-wife and I fell in love with a yellow naped
> amazon at a pet shop where we lived at that time, we knew /nothing/
> about
Doug Cook
An "aside" to this thread
Many countries allow import/export/traffic in wild - caught birds.
However all international trade (legal trade, that is) is regulated by
the CITIES
treaty regardless of country of origin or destination. Thus there are
restrictions on numbers of birds shipped out of a given country, and
regulations on their care and transport. So the Hong Kong dealers are
not operating illegally or without restriction and regulation.
Midassyd
>
>> One of the biggest guilts I carry in life (hey, everyone's got
Don't feel guilty. If the bird had a ring on his foot, he was imported legally.
Not the nicest thing, but I have a fourteen yr old macaw who came here that
way and is happy and healthy. Better that they do not import anymore, but
there was a big difference between legal and illegal importing. Enjoy your
bird.
