Avocados Poison????
Stays Crunchy In Milk
Hi all,
I've just been reading some of the posts on the puking
grey.......Although i know that avocados should not be given to pet birds,
how do we explain away the fact that MANY birds in the wild eat wild
avocados? The book COSTA RICAN NATURAL HISTORY, by Daniel Janzen gives
species accounts of a great number of birds found in Costa Rica and lists
avocados as the food of several....in particular, the Quetzal
(Pharomachrus mocinno). The information in the book is derived from
primary scientific research so is probably a reliable reference. (The
references are listed so i could e-mail them to anyone if they are
interested) And if no one believes the research, I've been to Costa Rica
for a Tropical Cloud Forest Ecology course and have witnessed birds
eating wild avocados and one of the students there did a research
project on the eating of wild avocados by birds. So, could it be possible
that avocados are not poisonous to some birds but are poinsonous to many?
This could explain the fact why the owner's Amazons did not get sick...it
is interesting that Amazons are New World birds like the Quetzal......could
it be possible that some New World birds can eat avocados? Or is it only
the pit of the avocado is poisonous and that if eaten carefully to avoid
the pit the fruit is harmless.......This would make only birds which
destroy fruit pits while eating the fruit susceptible to the toxin.
Well, just some food for thought! Just to let people know that
avocados are not poisonous to ALL birds.
Questions, Comments greatly anticipated. Flames unanimously ignored.
Michael Dewey-Shives
Graduate Student in Plant Biology
-
| | | |
| Michael Dewey-Shives | "You! Out of the pool!" | |
| <shiv...@wam.umd.edu> | --Gene Police | |
| <spro...@glue.umd.edu>| | |
La Reine de la Cite' des Phoques (Liz Day)
dangerous.
Clearly some birds can eat things others can't, so one must know
for sure what is safe for that species.
L.Day @indy.net
Steve DeGroof
>And if no one believes the research, I've been to Costa Rica
>for a Tropical Cloud Forest Ecology course and have witnessed birds
>eating wild avocados and one of the students there did a research
>project on the eating of wild avocados by birds. So, could it be possible
>that avocados are not poisonous to some birds but are poinsonous to many?
>This could explain the fact why the owner's Amazons did not get sick...it
>is interesting that Amazons are New World birds like the Quetzal......could
>it be possible that some New World birds can eat avocados?
I was thinking along similar lines. It would seem logical that birds
that evolved in places where avocados grow would have a higher
resistance to the toxins found in them.
I also remember reading about macaws that eat clay to help neutralize
the toxins in some of the foods they eat.
SD
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|/\| |_|/ \/ \/ |_______|/|_______|/ |_|/ (_)/
/| |\ deg...@cybernetics.net
Cathy Quinones
>
> Hi all,
>
> I've just been reading some of the posts on the puking
>grey.......Although i know that avocados should not be given to pet birds,
>how do we explain away the fact that MANY birds in the wild eat wild
>avocados? The book COSTA RICAN NATURAL HISTORY, by Daniel Janzen gives
>species accounts of a great number of birds found in Costa Rica and lists
>avocados as the food of several....in particular, the Quetzal
>(Pharomachrus mocinno). The information in the book is derived from
>primary scientific research so is probably a reliable reference. (The
>references are listed so i could e-mail them to anyone if they are
>eating wild avocados and one of the students there did a research
>project on the eating of wild avocados by birds. So, could it be possible
>that avocados are not poisonous to some birds but are poinsonous to many?
>This could explain the fact why the owner's Amazons did not get sick...it
>is interesting that Amazons are New World birds like the Quetzal......could
>the pit of the avocado is poisonous and that if eaten carefully to avoid
>the pit the fruit is harmless.......This would make only birds which
>destroy fruit pits while eating the fruit susceptible to the toxin.
>
>avocados are not poisonous to ALL birds.
Michael, I gather you are saying that avocado trees are a New World
species (I've been wondering about this, I *think* it is). If so, that would
explain why the guy's amazons were not affected by the fruit while the grey
(an African bird, Old World species) did suffer. The gastrointestinal
disturbance reports I heard applied to cattle, possibly goats and pigs??
... which also are Old World species.
Like I said in another post, I had never heard of an actual case of
poisoning, but to be on the safe side I just don't feed it to the birds,
period. It would be interesting to know if indeed it is only poisonous to
Old World species that haven't had a chance to coevolve with the avocado
tree and its fruit. Until info is available, I vote to err on the side of
caution and keep the avocadoes to ourselves :) :) :)
--
////////// ////// // \\\ ~ //////////////////
////// /\_/\_____ \\ /// quin...@biology.ucsc.edu ////////////////
///// \"."/ \_// /// ////////////////////
/////////////////////////// Poicephalus rule!!!! /////////////////
Debbie Kesling
Supposedly, the natural elements in the mix are effective
anti-toxins for nasty stuff.
Debbie
Scott Lewis
Jun 1995 19:31:32 -0400), gabr...@norden1.com (Debbie Kesling) says...
The dominant theory is that the clay detoxifies other items that the
Macaws eat. The alternate theory, which a friend of mine who is an avian
expert shares, it that the clay is eaten as a mineral source.
Regrads,
Scott
--
=====================================
Scott Lewis sle...@bga.com
Old World Aviaries
Austin, TX
=====================================
LayneDinLA
leech into the meat, which explains why the meat is lighter in the center
and grows darker as it gets closer to the skin on one side and the pit on
the other. In theory, the lightest meat could be fed to parrots, but it
isn't even close to being worth the risk. I believe that a bird can live a
full and happy life without guacamole. I suggest we all ask our avian vets
if they have ever treated a bird for avacado poisining.
Re Clay. Been there, seen that.
The clay does have trace amounts of "required" minerals. It also has
minerals (calcium, magnesium, etc) that are known to have antacid effects
which may help with some unripe fruits and seeds that they eat, especially
in years when food is less plentiful. I saw many birds carrying clay away
from the lick as well as clay on beaks of babies in nests.
While there are a few birds at the lick at Tambopata all day, hundreds of
parrots (G/W, Scarlet, B/G, Severe, Illigers, Red-bellied, Blue-headed
macaws, Mealy and Yellow-crowned amazons, Blue-headed pionus, Barrabands)
gather in the morning to socialize. There is some clay eating, but mostly
interacting.
Layne
Debbie Kesling
Layne, what are your thoughts on the "Manu" mineral blocks that
are commercially available?
Debbie
Dan Day
>>Don't some Macaws chow down at the 'mud' stuff at Manu?
>
>Macaws eat. The alternate theory, which a friend of mine who is an avian
>expert shares, it that the clay is eaten as a mineral source.
Then there's my theory -- "they eat it because they think it tastes
good."
--
sig under construction.
Steven Hoke
GABR...@NORDEN1.COM was heard to say to ALL on 06-05-95:
G>what are your thoughts on the "Manu" mineral blocks that
G>are commercially available?
My Grey completely ignores his, and has absolutely no interest in it.
-=Steve=-
* CMPQwk 1.42-R2 #408
* Junk--stuff we throw away. Stuff--junk we keep.
FREMCHIE
antidots; they know what they are and where they are; that's what they do
in south america; they go to these cliffs and chew on them and it
ciounteracts the poison
Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connait pas
LayneDinLA
/eating
/antidots; they know what they are and where they are;
REALLLLLLLY! Chapter and verse please. Where do you come into this
information?
/that's what they do
/in south america; they go to these cliffs and chew on them and it
/ciounteracts the poison
REALLLLLLY! I thought that this was just one of the several theories that
have been advanced about the clay licks. It is also believed that there
are necessary minerals in the clay, or that they are an antacid or that
visiting the lick is a social activity.
I thought the natural selection process associated with eating the wrong
thing was death. Isn't tha why plants are poisonous and why mommy birds
teach baby birds what to eat?
Layne
John Darrell Kesling
>Layne
I remember seeing part of a show on PBS a year or two ago. As far as I
remember it involved Scarlet Macaws, some kind of local fruit and the
mud along the Manu (sp) river.
I seem to remember the narrator indicating that if the birds ate the
fruit they would die unless the also ate the mud.
Sometimes I have a hard time remembering yesterday though (too many
beverages in aluminum cans). Does anyone have any better recollection
of this show. Or other information on the Manu river?
John
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Kesling - jkes...@eng.utoledo.edu or jkes...@shell.portal.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WA8ZGO - via AX.25 packet radio WA8...@W8HHF.OH.USA
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M.L. Leinneweber
>
>>REALLLLLLLY! Chapter and verse please. Where do you come into this
>>information?
>
Munn, p. 131:
"But if macaws seem to have no lack of food, why are they also eating
riverbank clay?
We found that they clay is high in salts and minerals the birds may not get
from their primarily vegetarian diet. Even more intriguing, as we analyzed
the commonly eaten seeds, we discovered that many held toxic chemical
compounds--tannins and alkaloids. I tried chewing the seeds myself. Some
were sweet at first taste, then my mouth begtan to tingle, burn, and swell.
It is likely that macaws take almost daily doses of clay to detoxify
themselves. Clay binds to the toxins and speeds them through the body.
Indians in the high Andes eat clay to counter the effects of bitter wild
potatoes."
The article goes on to say they eat more clay when food sources are
scarcer, which may cause them to eat more toxic seeds.
I believe that this same topic was covered in a National Geographic special
on television sometime after the article appeared.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Terri Leinneweber
mte...@pipeline.com
M.L. Leinneweber
Terry & Mary Arnold
>>REALLLLLLLY! Chapter and verse please. Where do you come into this
>>information?
>that's what they do in south america; they go to these cliffs and chew on
>them and it counteracts the poison
>>REALLLLLLY!! I thought that this was just on eof the several theories that
>>have been advanced about the clay licks. It is also believed that there are
>>necessary minerals in the clay, or that they are an antacid or that visiting
>>the lick is a social activity.
>>I thought the natural selection process associated with eating the wrong
>>thing was death. Isn't tha why plants are poisonous and why mommy birds
>>teach baby birds what to eat?
Layne
layne...@aol.com (LayneDinLA)
The Fall "94 issue of the Exotic Bird Report (a publicationof the Psittacine
Research Project, edited by Dr. Ann Brice @ UC Davis) contains an interesting
article explaining the research being conducted in Peru pertaining to the clay
eating parrots.
One possibility being considered is that clay consumption might allow the
birds to eat foods that may be toxic thus preventing their systems from being
compromised with the presence of clay. This would provide the birds with food
sources during times when food would otherwise be scarce.
Might this be the reason Scooter's Amazons were not affected by the avocado???
Mary Arnold
Dan Day
>
>It is not known for certain why the birds eat clay, but the prevailivg
>theories are antitoxin, antacid, mineral supplement and social.
Yet again, let me state my own theory:
Because they like the way it tastes.
Why do humans chew gum? I have visions of a bird studying humans
and saying, "since gum chewing is so popular in humans, and yet gum
has no nutritive value, we can only conclude that it serves some survival
purpose, or perhaps it enhances social interaction."
--
"Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are any good,
you'll have to ram them down people's throats."
- Howard Aiken
LayneDinLA
/ Because they like the way it tastes.
I have recently heard that birds may have a better sense of taste than
previously believed. So, I'll add your theory to the list. It works for
me!
Layne
Layne...@aol.com (Layne David Dicker)
Dusty (the 'tiel)
d...@se.houston.geoquest.slb.com (Dan Day) wrote:
> Why do humans chew gum? I have visions of a bird studying humans
> and saying, "since gum chewing is so popular in humans, and yet gum
> has no nutritive value, we can only conclude that it serves some survival
> purpose, or perhaps it enhances social interaction."
And that bird would be very smart, don't you think? I know my
human is a smoker and chews gum because, as the bird you mention
realized, it enhances social interaction.
Now, flockleader, well, she likes garlic and ranch dressing and she
hates chewing gum 'cause she's got some kind of a jaw condition - they
call it TMJ.
Sure am glad 'tiel olfactry senses are somewhat lacking.
Dusty (the 'tiel)
LayneDinLA
and take our Rolaids.
The difference between avacados and the seeds, etc. which may cause the
parrots to eat clay in Peru is that avacados are lethal, not merely toxic.
There are no definative studies on the natural foods of the wild birds.
Neither is it believed that all the birds that eat the clay have the same
diets, which throws a wrench into the antitoxin theory
It is not known for certain why the birds eat clay, but the prevailivg
theories are antitoxin, antacid, mineral supplement and social.
Layne
Layne...@aol.com (Layne David Dicker)
john kesling
>One possibility being considered is that clay consumption might allow the
>birds to eat foods that may be toxic thus preventing their systems from being
>compromised with the presence of clay. This would provide the birds with food
>sources during times when food would otherwise be scarce.
>Might this be the reason Scooter's Amazons were not affected by the avocado???
>Mary Arnold
My guess would be that Scooter has been very lucky, so far. And that the
variety of avocado he has been feeding has been the non-toxic variety.
I can't tell one variety from another so I won't feed them at all.
Maria63615
on our imprisonment of them?
Jonathan Higbee
: hey, we keep them in cages how can we know what they do in the wild based
: on our imprisonment of them?
Did I miss something here? Where did this bombshell come from?
Let's examine this sentence one piece at a time:
hey, we keep them: Don't you mean "you keep them?"
in cages: Many people here let their birds out of their cages
as much as possible
how can we know what
they do in the wild: We can know what they do in the wild based on several
factors:
A. Our observation of them in the wild
(while there's still some "wild" left.
B. Our observation of them as they live
with us.
based on our
imprisonment of them?: Non-sequitur. Your question indicates a leaning
toward the view that no bird should be kept in
any cage for any reason. This is not the best
newsgroup to get people to agree with you on this.
Have you ever heard of captive breeding?
Have you ever heard of the joy a bird brings
to the lives of those who are privilaged to live
with them.
Have you ever seen a happy bird interacting with
it's keeper?
I do not deny that it is a great
privilage to keep birds, and I am in the
process of doing all I can to helps others
have that same privilage.
Jonathan Higbee Grey Poop On? Got any Female Timnehs? Ever Read: Animal
Cottonwood, Utah Minds? Shadows of Forgotton Ancestors? Millenium:Tribal
jhi...@nyx.cs.du.edu Wisdon and the Modern World? A Brief History of Time?
Tony Pay
:/Yet again, let me state my own theory:
:/ Because they like the way it tastes.
:I have recently heard that birds may have a better sense of taste than
:previously believed. So, I'll add your theory to the list. It works for
:me!
I would strongly support this theory that they have a quite good sense
of taste. Both my birds enjoy eating yoghurt from the spoon, low fat of
course, because that is what I have to have <G>. Most times we have the
ones that have bits of fruit in them so there is some colour to be seen,
but on occasions we end up with the ones that all look the same whitish
colour, but do still have quite strong fruit flavours. Both birds will
take a little taste, churn it around there mouth, and if they approve
<G>, will continue to eat. However, some flavours they will just leave.
Must be something to do with taste I guess.
Also, I have continually noticed that when offering any new food for the
first time, not only will it be looked at carefully, but it will always
be tasted daintily, before hopefully, being dealt with more
enthusiastically.
Tony