Harrison's vrs. Pretty Bird
Mario Ferraro
guys think is the better pellet, Harrison's or Pretty Bird? The breeder
almost had a heart attack when I said pretty bird because she said they
use tons of preservatives and artificial things. She swears by
Harrisons but I wanted to know what you guys thought.
Mario
SBREA24
>almost had a heart attack when I said pretty bird because she said they
>use tons of preservatives and artificial things. She swears by
>Harrisons but I wanted to know what you guys thought.
Harrisons is better,also very expensive and it's down side is they have no
preservatives which is good but they deteriorate rapidly and have to be changed
often and always refrigerated. Pretty Bird and Kaytee have ethoxyquine in it
which they swear is at levels low enough not to be carcinogenic But they have
great P.R. depts and can convince you of anything. The biggest danger in
pellets I think is the chance of metal from the grinding process and that some
people feed it exclusively with no other variety of stuff. I 've heard horror
stories about pellets but lots of birds eat them so who knows. They cannot be
100% complete perfect diet because noone knows what is the perfect diet for a
parrot and all different types of birds have different nutritional
requirements.
Wheeler
an intelligent forth right manner. My best understanding is to allow a well
rounded diet we need to offer variety of food stuffs to our birds, often
this will include: pellets, seed, fruit, veggies, protein-maybe from meat.
What does a teil eat in the wild? I think-what ever a teil can get. BG
Bob W
SBREA24 wrote in message <19990715140235...@ng-fb1.aol.com>...
YODA
>
>I know this topic has probably come up a million times but what do you
>almost had a heart attack when I said pretty bird because she said they
>use tons of preservatives and artificial things. She swears by
>Harrisons but I wanted to know what you guys thought.
>
One of my birds will only eat Pretty Bird or Harrison's.Harrison's is a lot
more expensive, which may or may not be justified. While Harrison's is organic,
it also contains spirolina. There is NO peer reviewed scientific evidence that
I have seen indicating that spirolina, an algae, can be digested by birds and
higher orders of animals. If anyone has any such replicable, peer reviewed
studies published in a reputable scientific journal that substanciate claims
made about the benefits of spirolina, I wish they would post it or the
abstract to this newsgroup. While I would like to find organic pellets at a
reasonable cost that both my birds would eat, I don't want to enable quackery,
so I buy Pretty Bird.
Debbie
mar...@monmouth.com wrote:
> I know this topic has probably come up a million times but what do you
> guys think is the better pellet, Harrison's or Pretty Bird? The
breeder
> almost had a heart attack when I said pretty bird because she said
they
> use tons of preservatives and artificial things. She swears by
> Harrisons but I wanted to know what you guys thought.
> Mario
>
gets. She also gets lots of fruits and veggies plus Nutriberries every
once in a while. I would really like to know what the different species
of parrots eat in the wild. If anyone has any info on that it would be
interesting. I know my chickens ( who are truly free ranging) eat
anything and everything , as do my peafowl. Debbie
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Tim Beard
add, that you should not switch your birds diet to Harrison's brand quickly.
Should you decide to spend the extra on Harrison's (which I would
recommend), do so very gradually.
SBREA24 <sbr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990715140235...@ng-fb1.aol.com...
> >guys think is the better pellet, Harrison's or Pretty Bird? The breeder
> >almost had a heart attack when I said pretty bird because she said they
> >use tons of preservatives and artificial things. She swears by
> >Harrisons but I wanted to know what you guys thought.
>
Jdsporty
Jennifer
CoCo and Oliver
Jennifer Graham
immune-stimulant in birds. I have attended numerous AAV(Association of
Avian Veterinarians) meetings where this topic comes up. As for
documented, peer-reviewed evidence. Well....I might be able to find some
for you. It is mentioned twice in Avian Medicine:Principles and
Application (Ritchie, Harrison, and Harrison).
And I quote, "Commercial diets that contain algae (spirulina) should
have sufficient levels of naturally occurring carotenoids to maintain
proper feather coloration." Also - "Vitamin B12 or cyanocobalamin is a
product of bacterial biosynthesis and therefore must be obtained by
consuming a bacterial source or animal tissues that accumulate the
vitamin. The only exceptions are a few plants, such as peas, beans,
spirulina, and kelp, that may be able to synthesize minute amounts of
this vitamin, although this accumulation is likely due to their close
symbiotic relationship with bacteria."
OK - so I realize that this does not address your points directly.
But...with those kinds of statements, I assume that it is being absorbed
and broken down by the bird's digestive tract. In all my spare time
(ha!), I will try to find more information for you.
Rest assured that board-certified avian vets all over use and recommend
spirulina and Harrison's diet. I agree that it is more expensive and
doesn't last as long (lasts longest when only part of the diet is kept
in the refrigerator and the rest is kept in the freezer). But...I have
seen so many birds that really seem to respond well to that diet vs.
other diets. And it is the only diet I know of that is consistently sold
by avian vets. There really isn't anything else out there that can
claim, 'totally organic, preservative free'. Oh...one other thing. The
diets with all those artificial dyes really change the color of bird
poop making it extremely difficult to evaluate in times of illness. Dr.
Graham
Jennifer Graham
an Aspergillus fungi that produces the toxin! But you make very good
points. The whole point is variety...variety...variety! It sounds like
you are doing a great job! Jennifer
P.S. Don't tell anyone, but I feed Kaytee!
Becky Loos
system.
Becky(*)>
SBREA24 wrote:
>
> >birds diet to Harrison's brand quickly.
> >Should you decide to spend the extra on Harrison's (which I would
> >recommend), do so very graduall
>
> why is this?
SBREA24
SBREA24
>quackery,
>so I buy Pretty Bird.
I use Kaytee but have no idea which is better or why,Pretty Bird or Kaytee> I
just think maybe it doesn't matter as long as pellets are only a part of a
bird's diet. When they first introduced pellets, seed was villified but I've
sort of come full circle on that. All mine get a dish of a high quality seed
mix at bedtime after a day of fruits, veggies{those that they'll eat] egg
white, pellets and birdie bread and almonds etc. It fills them up for the
night. i try to limit the peanuts due to aspergillus.
Mooringoak
eat Laferber's Nutriberries. I ran out one day and had to buy Kaytee Healthy
Bits. He wouldn't eat them. I didn't realize he wasn't eating them until he
tried to get to Cinder's food thinking she had Laferber's. I knew he had to be
hungry if he was braving Cinder and all her scary toys! Since then I've always
made sure I have enough Laferber's on hand (I keep a small unopened tub on
hand). <g> I also get a package of each flavor nutriberry in addition to the
regular and mix them all together. Of course the flavored ones (esp. the fruit
ones) are the first to be eaten but they do eat the other ones. LOL
Brooke
Mario Ferraro
Mario
Scott Delibac
any better or worse than Kaytee or Harrisons?
Thanx
Scott
Mario Ferraro wrote:
> I know this topic has probably come up a million times but what do you
> guys think is the better pellet, Harrison's or Pretty Bird? The breeder
> almost had a heart attack when I said pretty bird because she said they
> use tons of preservatives and artificial things. She swears by
> Harrisons but I wanted to know what you guys thought.
> Mario
YODA
gra...@peachnet.campuscwix.net says...
So you have no peer reviewed scientific evidence about the benefits of
spirolina, an algae pushed by the health food industry, but you are willing to
rely on the fact Harrison's is sold by some vets as evidence it does some good.
The question is for whom, Does the fact these vets make a profit on Harrison's
have anthing to do with their willingness to push the stuff? We know for
certain that some vets sell Harrison's and make a profit from the sales, but we
haven't established there are any replicable peer reviewed scientific studies
that demonstarte spirolina has any benefits for birds or other higher animals.
Any reasonable persons can judge this evidence for themselves.
Jennifer Graham
seriously doubt that there wouldn't be some). Have you actually looked
for any? Maybe I'll try to find some for you if I ever have a
less-hectic day than yesterday. Unfortunately, the literature sometimes
lags behind!
At any rate, I totally disagree with what you are saying. Vets don't
make that much profit off Harrison's. Most vets I know tell clients how
to order the food directly from Harrison's, cut out the middle man, and
make nothing off it. (If they are buying in larger quantities).
The whole Spirulina thing...I'm sure articles are out there. But, even
if I can't find any, it wouldn't matter to me. I never really considered
the whole spirulina thing to be that big of a deal. So...they put some
algae in there...so what? It is not harmful to the birds and seems to be
benefitting them. (If nothing else, than for the feather benefit I
previously mentioned - and that was peer-reviewed!). All around, it has
better ingredients, better balanced, etc. than anything else out there.
And if you are into that organic thing...it is the only food that is. It
is more expensive because it is higher quality...period. If you don't
care about higher quality, or don't want to spend the money, don't buy
the food.
Hey...I have an idea. Why don't _you_ call Harrison's and ask them the
questions you are having. Please let us know what they say...I am
interested. I honestly don't have time to find the stuff you want! Dr.
Graham
Mary
However, We do use sprirulina and believe it does at least enhance the
feather color. Sparky's tail feathers were always ratty looking until we
started using spirulina. Now he has beautiful tail feathers. When we were
breeding greys, our babies had the most gorgeous feather color or any I'd
ever seen. I attribute this to spirulina.
--
Mary Arnold
Sparky's Homepage is the place to go if you want to learn about the grey
Congo! "www.neta.com/~tarnold/sparky.html"
"She was not quite what I would call refined,
"She was not quite what I would call unrefined,
"She was the kind of person that keeps a parrot."
Mark Twain
YODA <yoda...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7mnodi$rna$2...@brokaw.wa.com...
James Matthew Weber
>I've never used Harrison's -- the Kaytee pellets we use are fine IMO.
>However, We do use sprirulina and believe it does at least enhance the
>feather color. Sparky's tail feathers were always ratty looking until we
>started using spirulina. Now he has beautiful tail feathers. When we were
>breeding greys, our babies had the most gorgeous feather color or any I'd
>ever seen. I attribute this to spirulina.
Ratty looking tail feathers usually have two sources, and neither is
nutritional. Small cages do it, and until the bird 'grows up' a little
and get more interested in appearance for perspective mates, they tend
not to be very careful about tails feather, so they tend to get beat
up. I've notice the tail feather condition seems to improve once my
Macaw's get past 3 or 4 years old.
Mamabird
feathers, even though they share a big, roomy cage. The problem seems to be
that Blossom (year old female) chases Treasure (5 month old male) and grabs
him by the tail with her beak or her foot. Once she has a hold on him she
rolls over on her back and kind of "karate flips" him onto his back, then
they wrestle around on the floor of the cage.
It's a game they play and it's so funny to watch, but their tails sure take
a beating. Right now they both have only one tail feather, the rest are
broken from them biting and pulling at each other's tails. Both birds are
otherwise in beautiful feather.
--
Mama
Visit "Mamabird's Nest" at http://members.tripod.com/~iluvbirds/
To email reply: Change nest to net.
"Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug."
------
James Matthew Weber <jmw...@goodnet.com> wrote...
Jennifer Graham
nutrition. Bad nutrition...poor feather coloring and overall appearance
of the feathers. Dr. Graham
Mamabird
You're right, of course. Nutrition has *everything* to do with a bird's
overall health and appearance.
But could poor nutrition account for JUST battered tail feathers if the
bird otherwise has excellent feather condition and color?
In the case of my Goffin's pair, I have to attribute the sad state of their
tail feathers to the fact that they're both young, clumsy and play so rough
with each other.
--
Mama
Visit "Mamabird's Nest" at http://members.tripod.com/~iluvbirds/
To email reply: Change nest to net.
"Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug."
------
Jennifer Graham <gra...@peachnet.campuscwix.net> wrote in message
news:3792761F...@peachnet.campuscwix.net...
Mary
change. However, I took the question to mean, why should you change to
Harrisons???
--
Mary Arnold
Sparky's Homepage is the place to go if you want to learn about the grey
Congo! "www.neta.com/~tarnold/sparky.html"
"She was not quite what I would call refined,
"She was not quite what I would call unrefined,
"She was the kind of person that keeps a parrot."
Mark Twain
Becky Loos <the...@apk.net> wrote in message
news:378EA797...@apk.net...
> I have heard that an abrupt change in diet is not good for the digestive
> system.
>
> Becky(*)>
>
> SBREA24 wrote:
> >
Mary
IMO you really don't have to worry about aflatoxin (which may lead to
aspergillus). Sparky gets Kaytee, too -- we used to feed Pretty Bird.
Can't remember why we switched. I think a lot of people feed Harrison's
because of the age old theory that anything that's more expensive must be
better. Also, I think you can only buy it thru a vet and that leads people
to believe it must be better. That doesn't impress me at all!
--
Mary Arnold
Sparky's Homepage is the place to go if you want to learn about the grey
Congo! "www.neta.com/~tarnold/sparky.html"
"She was not quite what I would call refined,
"She was not quite what I would call unrefined,
"She was the kind of person that keeps a parrot."
Mark Twain
SBREA24 <sbr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990715202113...@ng-ff1.aol.com...
Mary
spirulina. His tail feathers are much brighter and no longer ratty looking.
--
Mary Arnold
Sparky's Homepage is the place to go if you want to learn about the grey
Congo! "www.neta.com/~tarnold/sparky.html"
"She was not quite what I would call refined,
"She was not quite what I would call unrefined,
"She was the kind of person that keeps a parrot."
Mark Twain
Jennifer Graham <gra...@peachnet.campuscwix.net> wrote in message
Jennifer Graham
feather condition and color, think small caging or hanging out on the
floor a lot. (Or wrestling and clumsiness!). Jennifer
Kellie
> tail feathers to the fact that they're both young, clumsy and play so rough
> with each other.
My M2 has gorgeous fluffy, pink, powdery and lovely feathers until she opens
her wings or turns around and you see that she chews the tail and wing feathers
off. In her case chewing is a long term habit that we have yet to break and
possibly never will, but you can tell we've been feeding her right by her
overall condition.
--
Kellie
Kellie
mention it!
Mary wrote:
--
Kellie
Jennifer Graham
today with the worst feathering in the history of poor feathering! I
suspect the bird has Aspergillosis or Chlamydia. It's feathers also had
a real moth-eaten, greasy appearance. I submitted a sample for fungal
culture/sensitivity. When I addressed the whole diet issue, the owner
said I was wrong about pellets and a variety of healthy fruits/veggies
being a good diet...he says _his_ bird is doing just fine on a seed only
diet. Help me - I can't believe this attitude is still so prevalent!!
Jennifer
SBREA24
>nutrition. Bad nutrition...poor feather coloring and overall appearance
>of the feathers. Dr. Graham
i rescued a bird from a long standing situation of a seed only diet. We have
had her 3 years and have given her every wonderful nutritional food there is
but she really looks no better. The vet suggested malabsorbtion for one reason
or another so we put pancreatic enzymes in her food. Now he felt the
feathering{lots of black} might be due to aspergillosis so we tested and she is
strongly Positive so we are doing the difucan and sporonaox and holding out
hope for the new vaccine tried only in raptors that may help push up the
antibodies. She is also on daily thyroid and now maintaing a good level
there.This aspergillosis is a bitch, very prevalent here, it takes forever to
treat successfully and the medications are horribly expensive!
SBREA24
>because of the age old theory that anything that's more expensive must be
>better. Also, I think you can only buy it thru a vet and that leads people
>to believe it must be better. That doesn't impress me at all!
I feed Kaytee like you because Harrisons is too costly when you have alot of
birds,also because it's all natural and organic you have to be so careful about
freshness ,freezing and refrigeration but I do think it is a superior pellet
and it does impress me, also the ethoxiquine {spell.} makes me nervous in the
Pretty Bird and Kaytee and I have heard horror stories about their formulas. I
don't think any brand of pellets should be fed as an only diet, that's where
you run into trouble and of course the presence of metal in any pellet worries
me.
SBREA24
>change. However, I took the question to mean, why should you change to
>Harrisons???
here's a question or a thought. Why not switch around? Harrisons for awhile,
then Kaytee etc. Of course you have to see which one the bird actually eats. I
give egg white almost daily to macaws that have less than perfect feathering
and even afew drops of amino acids from the sports health food store.
Mario Ferraro
one bird), how big a bag should I get, how long will it stay fresh, and how should I keep it?
Mario
SBREA24
You can get 5 lb bags that will fit in the freezer. It may be more economical
to get the 20 or 25 lb. bag but you have to have freezer space. I keep mine in
an empty nutriberry container in the freezer and change daily, in the morning
and dumped at night. Get a small bag at first to see if you can get the bird to
eat them.
Mamabird
--
Mama
Visit "Mamabird's Nest" at http://members.tripod.com/~iluvbirds/
To email reply: Change nest to net.
"Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug."
------
> >Harrison's
> >because of the age old theory that anything that's more expensive must
be
> >better. Also, I think you can only buy it thru a vet and that leads
people
> >to believe it must be better. That doesn't impress me at all!
>
SBREA24 <sbr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990720214333...@ng-cb1.aol.com...
Mario Ferraro
is feeding it. But if I freeze it do I have to defrost it before I feed it to my
bird?
Mario
Mary
didn't get all the msg in this thread.
--
Mary Arnold
Sparky's Homepage is the place to go if you want to learn about the grey
Congo! "www.neta.com/~tarnold/sparky.html"
"She was not quite what I would call refined,
"She was not quite what I would call unrefined,
"She was the kind of person that keeps a parrot."
Mark Twain
Jennifer Graham <gra...@peachnet.campuscwix.net> wrote in message
news:37952CE6...@peachnet.campuscwix.net...
SBREA24
true, do we know if the carcinogenic levels are dangerous for birds?
SBREA24
>From: Mario Ferraro mar...@monmouth.com
>Date: Wed, 21 July 1999 12:33 PM EDT
>Message-id: <3795F646...@monmouth.com>
>
>I think he should be okay in terms of eating them because that is what the
>breeder
>is feeding it. But if I freeze it do I have to defrost it before I feed it
>to my
>bird?
> Mario
I don't, I give direct from freezer and it isn't long before they are room
temp.
SireniaM
I have also noticed that Peanut doesn't dunk the Harrisons like he did the
Zupreem.
SireniaM
Harrisons for a sample and ever since then he was hooked on that. Luckily I
found a place on-line to order from. Cheaper than the vet, too. So now Peanut
sits in heaven eating his wonderful Harrisons. Hubby says they taste just like
peanuts. Guess that is why they get hooked on it so easily. (some birds
anyways)
Frederick Wilson
pellet fanciers, especially those who think Harrisons is just the end
all of pelleted foods. Take the published nutritional values for
Harrisons ("Feeding Your Pet Bird" published by Barrons is a good place
to look for the information), then compare that to the nutritional
values for a high quality seed mix. You can get those values by taking
and looking up the various seeds in the USDA nutritional database at
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/cgi-bin/nut_search.pl
Those of you who are big pellet supporters are in for a surprise. What
you will find is that nutritionally there is little difference between
the two. the primary differences are that Harrisons is low (0% for
amino acids) in amino acids and trace elements while seeds are low in
some of the vitamins, but that overall it looks suspiciously like
Harrisons, and most of the other pelleted foods for that matter, were
modeled after high quality seed mixes.
Even the dreaded sunflower seed has more nutritional value than it is
generally credited http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/cgi-bin/list_nut.pl
The point here is not that seeds are better, or worse than pelleted
foods, but rather that each has it's strengths and weaknesses. Neither
by itself is a really complete diet.
--
TA
FAW
"Hope is a feathered thing that perches on the soul" E. Dickenson
Visit our web pages at:
http://pweb.netcom.com/~faw/Geobass/plot.html
And our photo gallery at:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=14203&Auth=false
Tim Beard
seeing it, but I can't recall.
SireniaM <sire...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990721143734...@ng-fq1.aol.com...
SireniaM
>seeing it, but I can't recall.
www.nybird.com. It is the only place I know of that you can order Harrison's
without the vet being invovled. I ordered the 5 pound bag and it took about 5
days to get here since I placed my order on a friday and then monday was a
holiday. They also sent it direct from the Harrison's out of Nebraska instead
of shipping it to Florida first then back my way so that made it about $2.00
cheaper for the shipping.
Really nice people.
Marianne Ferris-Whitmore
SBREA24 wrote in message <19990720214333...@ng-cb1.aol.com>...
>>Harrison's
>>because of the age old theory that anything that's more expensive must be
>>better. Also, I think you can only buy it thru a vet and that leads
people
>>to believe it must be better. That doesn't impress me at all!
>
of
>birds,also because it's all natural and organic you have to be so careful
about
>freshness ,freezing and refrigeration but I do think it is a superior
pellet
>and it does impress me, also the ethoxiquine {spell.} makes me nervous in
the
>Pretty Bird and Kaytee and I have heard horror stories about their
formulas. I
>don't think any brand of pellets should be fed as an only diet, that's
where
>you run into trouble and of course the presence of metal in any pellet
worries
>me.
I briefly thought I owed it to me birds to feed them Harrisons. They did
not cooperate at all. Wouldn't touch them. Maybe I could have converted
them in time, but it was too painful vacuuming up those expensive pellets.
They are beautiful and healthy on Kaytee. Pellets are a small part of their
diet any way.
Marianne
Mooringoak
>Jennifer
>
It's still out there, unfortunately. My mother has five tiels and until a
couple months ago had them on a *just* seed diet. I convinced her to order
Nutriberries. The tiels LOVE them and are eating them like five little piggies!
I don't know if she will order more due to the cost, but I hope so. I try and
educate her and she just says I'm wrong. Like she thinks my cages are too big
for one bird. The cages are 18X18X26 (one cage for each bird). I wouldn't
dream of putting them in a smaller cage. Bigger isn't really an issue either
since most of their time (when I'm home) is spent out of their cage.
Brooke
Mario Ferraro
Mario
Marianne Ferris-Whitmore
Jennifer Graham wrote in message
<37952CE6...@peachnet.campuscwix.net>...
> Good luck with the Aspergillosis treatment. It is tough. I saw a macaw
>today with the worst feathering in the history of poor feathering! I
>suspect the bird has Aspergillosis or Chlamydia. It's feathers also had
>a real moth-eaten, greasy appearance. I submitted a sample for fungal
>culture/sensitivity. When I addressed the whole diet issue, the owner
>said I was wrong about pellets and a variety of healthy fruits/veggies
>being a good diet...he says _his_ bird is doing just fine on a seed only
>Jennifer
One of 'toos had a few weird feathers. Since I have had birds with PDD, I
have learned to expect the worst. I immediately thought Beak and feather.
Vet took one look, discounted that possibilty, suspected plain old yeast.
Was treated with Diflucan for 21 days, and was perfectly fine and is now
beautifully feathered.
What I was wondering, for future reference, is when do you decide it may be
beak and feather? The thing that really had me concerned was that she
wasn't very dusty. In my mind, lack of powder means Beak and Feather. Is
there something that distinguishes Beak and Feather? Just asking because
of my tendency to panic. I was really in such a state this last go round.
Marianne
Marianne Ferris-Whitmore
>said I was wrong about pellets and a variety of healthy fruits/veggies
>being a good diet...he says _his_ bird is doing just fine on a seed only
>diet. Help me - I can't believe this attitude is still so prevalent!!
>Jennifer
What kind of bird was it? I just got finished saying I feed pellets, but I
really think that in some species an all seed diet isn't as bad as people
say. I know I've mentoned my 14 year old 'tiel who was seed fed until I got
her 3 years ago. Perfectly feathered, and completely healthy. I feed her
pellets and seed now (she won't touch fruits or vegetables - their very
presence in her cage seems to disturb her), but I really think she has yet
to eat a pellet.
And I have heard about some ancient Amazons, raised in the day when people
knew no better, that were over 80 years old.
I just don't think the issue is cut and dry.
Marianne
Marianne Ferris-Whitmore
I
>have learned to expect the worst. I immediately thought Beak and feather.
>Vet took one look, discounted that possibilty, suspected plain old yeast.
>Was treated with Diflucan for 21 days, and was perfectly fine and is now
>beautifully feathered.
Oops - replying to myself again. Just to head this off at the pass - she
was tested before treatment.
Marianne
Frederick Wilson
The thing that really had me concerned was that she
> wasn't very dusty. In my mind, lack of powder means Beak and Feather. Is
> there something that distinguishes Beak and Feather? Just asking because
> of my tendency to panic. I was really in such a state this last go round.
>
> Marianne
The symptoms of PBFD vary by species somewhat. typical symptoms in
Toos, Greys, and Tiels is deformity of the powder down feathers,
followed by loss of powder, discoloration of feather shafts, brittleness
of feathers and feather loss. It can progress quite rapidly (just a few
days) or may linger for years. There is no cure and it is fairly
contagious. the exact mechanism by which it is transmitted is unknown.
There is some anecdotal evidence that it may occassionally become
dormant, and re-emerge after a period of as much a 5 years or more.
However there are other causes for loss of powder in those species with
powder down. First heavy molt sometimes causes a loss of powder, or
subsequent very heavy molts. Poor diet can also be a cause along with a
variety of infections that interfere with feather growth. Finally (as
we learned with Morticia) loss of powder can be the side effect of
certain drug combinations (we were never able to determin if it was
reaction to a single drug or the combination of antibiotics and
antifungals she was on).
Vicki Robinson
>
>It's still out there, unfortunately. My mother has five tiels and until a
>couple months ago had them on a *just* seed diet. I convinced her to order
>Nutriberries. The tiels LOVE them and are eating them like five little piggies!
My breeder told me that Nutriberries are essentially just seeds with some
binding stuff when I was asking him about converting my 'tiel to pellets from
seeds. (He *hates* pellets and will dig through his pellets diligently for
the seeds that I mix sparingly with them.) How are they better than seeds?
If you look at them they look like seeds stuck together with something sweet.
Vicki
--
Mediation and Alternative Dispute Resolution Resources:
http://www.rit.edu/~vjrnts/mediation/mediation.html
The alt.folklore.urban FAQ and archive can be found at
http://www.urbanlegends.com/
Jennifer Graham
parakeets) need seed in their diet. I will usually recommend that people
go with 1/2 seeds, 1/2 pellets, and plenty of nutritious veggies with
occasional fruit. (Also, people food like cooked rice is fine). The bird
I was referring to was a macaw. There really is no reason why larger
parrots should be receiving seeds. They do fine on pellets as a majority
of their diet and the extras as decribed above.
In regard to your Beak and Feather Disease question. There really isn't
one particular thing that sets it apart (other than obvious, diffuse
beak and feather abnormalities). Obviously, loss of powder is one of the
signs. However, if I was presented with an older bird that had that as a
complaint and a few weird feathers, I would do a thorough physical exam,
get a good history - including diet, and get a minimum data
base....fecal gram stain, complete blood count, maybe radiographs. There
are so many things that can cause feather problems...I wouldn't
immediately jump to Beak and Feather Disease. If I found abnormalities
with bloodwork or gram stain (like, in your case - a yeast problem), I
would treat the immediate problem. If the feather abnormalities
persisted, I would definitely test for BFDV. I am usually more paranoid
about BFDV in an aviary setting where young birds are dying. Not usually
as paranoid if it is in an establised household where the bird hasn't
been exposed to a lot of other birds. (Especially if it is an older
bird).
So, I hope this kind of answers your question. Of course, if a client
came in and specifically requested that test, I would probably do it
immediately, rather than wait. Jennifer
Jennifer Graham
it is if you didn't catch it...
Jennifer Graham
Frederick Wilson
>
> But especially for an Amazon who tend to be obese, wouldn't you agree
> that pellets have less fat and better nutriton and that the weaknesses
> of pellets are less signifigant then the weaknesses of seeds? I'm not
> sure I'm just going by what I have researched, read, been told by
> breeders, and also vets but I'm always open to different ideas. Do
> you feed your birds seed mixes instead of pellets?
> Mario
>
>
Fat content varies quite a lot both in seed mixes and in pellets. I
have seed mixes from Sunseed that are 6%, from Kaytee that are 15% and
from Preferred 7%. Currently I have Hagen Pellets 10%, Lafabre 11%,
Harrisons 5.5% and Rainbow 6%. As you may guess I feed a combination of
seed mix and pellets (about 40% pellets and 60% seed mix at the moment).
I think that way I cover the shortages in both without sacrificing on
the variety or quality of their diet. I vary this mixture somewhat
according to species. tiels and budgies get about 70% seed 30% pellets
to raise the fat content and reduce the levels of some vitamins, while
the Macaws get about 10% nuts, 50% seeds and 40% pellets in their diet
and of course the Lories get no pellets at all. the reason I do this is
to try to match as closly as I can the nutritional content of their
natural diet. It just doesn't make sense to me to feed say a tiel a
diet with 15% protien, high D, E and A vitamins and low fat and low
calorie (pellets) when the diet the evolved to exploit is 11% protien,
low vitamin A,D,E and relatively high fat high calorie.
Also diet has been implicated in a wide variety of health problems.
Pelleted diets contain high levels of Vit A and D3 both of which can
build to toxic levels if more is taken in than is used. Lysine (an
amino acid) defeciency has been implicated in plucking in some Toos and
few pellets contain Lysine.
Chronic egg laying may be dietary as well (IMO). In their natural
environment birds lay to coincide with maximum food quality and
availability. Birds such as tiels and budgies will lay a single clutch
in a typical year, may not lay at all in a very dry year and will lay
several clutches during wet mild years. In captivety we tend to
duplicate the climate, food and water supply that occures during the
nesting season for most birds. We keep temperatures mild, humidity
moderate, light constant,and food and water of high quality, abundent.
As a result it is not unusual for captive birds to breed several times
in a year and for some species to breed year round (LBs, Tiels,
Budgies). It is hardly surprising that some birds will react to this by
ceaselessly producing eggs.
Finally some minerals and food additives have been associated with
specific problems in some species of birds. Many soft bill, Lories, and
Eclectus have been shown to be especially suseptable to Hemotosis (sp?),
a disease caused by the body retaining too much iron, causing organ
damage and death. Most pelleted diets are relatively high in iron and
it is generally in the form of ferrous sulfate which is easily absorbed
by the body. The consenus among aviculturists seems to be developing
that 100ppm is about the maximum level acceptable for these birds, yet
many manufactured diets have iron content well above this.
Spirolina (sp?) is another issue with some manufactured diets such as
Harrisons. while many people swear by it as a food additive for birds,
there is some anecdotal evidence that it is connected to behavioral
problems in some species. Most common of these problems seems to be
heightened agression among Eclectus and Amazons. There have also been
some reports of Toos who ceased plucking when spirolina was removed from
their diet (of course there are reports of toos that ceased plucking
when it was added to their diet as well so who knows).
I really don't think there is any one answer to bird diets. Each
species has evolved to exploit different resources and as a result can
have widely differing dietary needs. A diet that is good for a tiel
will not be all that great for many Poicephalus species that consume
large numbers of figs in their natural diet and seem to require a much
higher level of vitamin K, nor will it be very good for some Macaws
whose natural diet can approach 50% fat. so what I think we need to do
is our best to determin what the natural diet these birds have evolved
to utilize, then try to adjust our commercial diets to reflect their
natural one.
Jennifer Graham
rolled with molasses (therefore, high sugar), but they also contain
pellets in the mixture. They are more nutritionally complete than a seed
only diet. They can be fed as the sole diet. I recommend them as a
conversion diet when you are attempting to get birds to eat pellets.
However, if a cockatiel absolutely refuses pellets but will eat the
nutiberries, I advise clients to feed nutriberries. Jennifer
SBREA24
>piggies!
I give nutriberries as a treat but aren't they just seed and peanut butter. I
don't think there's much "complete nutrition in those"
SBREA24
>diet any way.
I think that's the secret to keep pellets as alimited part of the diet. I give
rice ,beans veggies, fruits, pizza, whatever, it's the big variety that
matters. People who give the birds ONLY pellets aren't doing their birds any
favors, besides how boring for the bird.
SBREA24
>Peanut
PLEASE will you tell me where you are getting the Harrisons online!!! I pay
like $28 for a 5 lb. bag at the vet.s.
Kevin Chu
Don't remember where I heard this, but I thought Nutri-Berries (and
Avi-Cakes) were held together with magic glue -- i.e. nutritious
stuff. The NBs also have bits of peanuts and things.
I haven't scrutinised the ingredients of either product recently....
Kevin
--
(o- Kevin Chu
//\ ke...@portal.ca
v_/_ http://members.tripod.com/~super_kevin/
Mario Ferraro
Mario
Frederick Wilson
>
> Thanks for the info. What would you recommend for a Yellow Nape
> amazon then? Obviously I'm gonna feed it fresh fruit and vegetables
> with the occassional table scraps but how much seed vs pellet should I
> give?
>
I am afraid that Amazons are not my bird. One breeder I know who is
pretty experienced in Amazons feeds about 50% seed/pellet (50/50) and
50% soak and cook and fresh veggies.
Frederick Wilson
>
> I have been concerned about this very situation for some time, but don't know
> where to find information on the natural diet of my Poicephalus. Could you
> tell me where you found the information on the figs? And any other information
> you might have on their natural foods?
> Sue
At one time we were thinking of getting a Meyers so I did a fair bit of
research on the net about the family. I don't really remember exactly
what search criteria I used at the time, but there were quite a few
sites with bits and pieces of information. One good place to start is
Mattie Sue Athan's book 'Guide to the Senegal Parrot and it's Family"
Barrons 1998. another particularly good source are the several
publications by Rosemary Low for the World Parrot Trust on African
Parrots, these address several of the Poicephalus species in detail
including their natural diet. Finally I would take a look at the
publications by Pamela Hutchinson who has written extensively on the
genus. There was also a monk in the 1930s-50s who published several
highly detailed journals on his observations of Meyers, Senegals, Niam
Niam and Brown Headed parrots. His name escapes me at the moment
though. He was the first (only?) person to breed Niam Niam in captivety
and was only able to achieve that by duplicating exactly their wild diet
of several different types of figs. anyway, I think that covers the
basics of where to get the information. It's been awhile so the old
memory may not be perfect, but I think you should be able to find what
you need.
Mooringoak
> They are more nutritionally complete than a seed
>only diet. They can be fed as the sole diet. I recommend them as a
>conversion diet when you are attempting to get birds to eat pellets.
When I got Fred the bird store owner had him on a seed based diet. My vet
recommended I convert him to Nutriberries. He (Fred) was very sick due to a
yeast infection so I was hesitant to give him just Nutriberries at first
(wanted him to eat anything - as long as he was eating and not just laying
there). Once he made a full recovery, out went the seed. He won't touch
pellets and will only eat Lafeber's brand - very picky!! He does get other
foods, but IMO they really make his feathers really beautiful especially in the
sun. :-)
Brooke
Mooringoak
>don't think there's much "complete nutrition in those"
>
A lot of people think that, but it's just not the case. They can be fed as an
entire diet (no other stuff). They have seed, peanuts, bits of pellet, and are
held together with some sort of bird seed glue (not really glue but for lack of
a better defination/word). There are also Nutriberries with fruit, veggies,
and peppers. I buy 4lbs. plain, 10oz tropical fruit, 10oz sunny orchard (the
other fruit one), 10oz garden veggie, and 10oz el paso (the bell pepper one),
and mix them all together. That way, if Fred and Cinder don't eat the other
food I give them (usually they do but you never know) I know they are at least
getting the nutrients they need with the Nutriberry mix. Most of the seeds are
already pre-shelled so less mess (sort of). Now I just find whole Nutriberries
under the couch and in the middle of the floor. lol
Suzmyers
>will not be all that great for many Poicephalus species that consume
>large numbers of figs in their natural diet and seem to require a much
>higher level of vitamin K, nor will it be very good for some Macaws
>whose natural diet can approach 50% fat. so what I think we need to do
>is our best to determin what the natural diet these birds have evolved
>to utilize, then try to adjust our commercial diets to reflect their
>natural one.
I have been concerned about this very situation for some time, but don't know
where to find information on the natural diet of my Poicephalus. Could you
tell me where you found the information on the figs? And any other information
you might have on their natural foods?
Sue
To respond by e-mail, remove "NOSPAM" from my address.
Mario Ferraro
Mario
Frederick Wilson wrote:
Mario Ferraro wrote:
>
> Thanks for the info. What would you recommend for a Yellow Nape
> amazon then? Obviously I'm gonna feed it fresh fruit and vegetables
> with the occassional table scraps but how much seed vs pellet should I
> give?
>
I am afraid that Amazons are not my bird. One breeder I know who is
pretty experienced in Amazons feeds about 50% seed/pellet (50/50) and
50% soak and cook and fresh veggies.
--
XMnushaL8y
<f...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> Mario Ferraro wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the info. What would you recommend for a Yellow Nape
> > amazon then? Obviously I'm gonna feed it fresh fruit and vegetables
> > with the occassional table scraps but how much seed vs pellet should I
> > give?
>
> I am afraid that Amazons are not my bird. One breeder I know who is
> pretty experienced in Amazons feeds about 50% seed/pellet (50/50) and
> 50% soak and cook and fresh veggies.
Amazons tend to gain weight easily, and too much seed w/do it every time.
My pet YNA gets a healthy serving of veggies/fruit first thing in the
a.m., has a full bowl of pellets all day long and then a small amount (a
little less than 1/4 cup) of seed in the early evening, as a treat, after
all the more nutritious stuff has already been eaten. Of course, the needs
of YNA breeders would be different.
--Shirley
Mamabird
their
> >diet any way.
>
SBREA24 <sbr...@aol.com> wrote in message...
> I think that's the secret to keep pellets as alimited part of the diet. I
give
> rice ,beans veggies, fruits, pizza, whatever, it's the big variety that
> matters. People who give the birds ONLY pellets aren't doing their birds
any
> favors, besides how boring for the bird.
Yes! I believe that birds need a variety of foods for both their physical
AND their psychological well-being.
A few years ago I was feeling terribly guilty that my birds were still on a
seed based diet (lots of healthy "side dishes", good quality avian vitamin
supplement, but no pellets).
Once I finally got them converted to pellets, I rarely gave them seeds
anymore because I didn't want them to "get hooked" on them again.
Well, over the past couple of years I seem to have come full circle and
have re-introduced a quality seed mix to their daily diet, and have added
Nutri-Berries for yet more variety. They still like, and eat their pellets
(Kaytee Rainbow) veggies, etc... but they have such FUN eating their seeds
and Nutri-Berries!
I think the physical challenge/mental stimulation of extracting the seeds
from the hulls is good for them.
And although the seeds in Nutri-Berries are already hulled, they seem to
enjoy dissecting that little ball full of hidden treasures. :)
--
Mama
Visit "Mamabird's Nest" at http://members.tripod.com/~iluvbirds/
To email reply: Change nest to net.
"Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug."
------
Vicki Robinson
>
>Yes! I believe that birds need a variety of foods for both their physical
>AND their psychological well-being.
>A few years ago I was feeling terribly guilty that my birds were still on a
>seed based diet (lots of healthy "side dishes", good quality avian vitamin
>supplement, but no pellets).
Well, I'm still jealous of you folks whose birds will eat anything
other than seeds. My Piper will pick at lettuce leaves and shredded
carrots, nibble on bread crusts and dearly loves seed. He presumably
eats some of the Kaytee pellets (since his seed is mixed with them),
totally ignores ZuPreem fruit pellets and Roudybush pellets. Pasta?
HA! Won't even deign to check it out, with or without sauce. He'll
industriously dig through the pellets to find the seeds, and you can
see him getting annoyed when they become scarce; he stabs his head
into his food dish, throwing the pellets aside with an irritated
fling of his beak.
I keep offering him bits of our food and my husband is losing patience
with me for the various jars and cartons of pellets we have around,
but the little stinker (the 'tiel, not my husband) is adamant. After
the discussion here, I will try Nutriberries, but that does it for the
special birdfood formulations.
Bah.
Frederick Wilson
I will try Nutriberries, but that does it for the
> special birdfood formulations.
>
> Bah.
>
> Vicki
If you get some of the large donut shaped pellets you can string them
and make toys that will almost always get their interest.
Mary
'magic glue'.
--
Mary Arnold
Sparky's Homepage is the place to go if you want to learn about the grey
Congo! "www.neta.com/~tarnold/sparky.html"
"She was not quite what I would call refined,
"She was not quite what I would call unrefined,
"She was the kind of person that keeps a parrot."
Mark Twain
Kevin Chu <ke...@portal.ca> wrote in message
news:3796606A...@portal.ca...
> Jennifer Graham wrote:
>
> > I prefer Nutriberries over a seed only diet. The do have seeds and are
> > rolled with molasses (therefore, high sugar), but they also contain
> > pellets in the mixture. They are more nutritionally complete than a seed
> > only diet. They can be fed as the sole diet. I recommend them as a
> > conversion diet when you are attempting to get birds to eat pellets.
Mary
here. She could convince all of you about the virture of seeds. IMO
pellets are OK as an addition to the bird's diet. The pellet mfgs have done
a good job marketing their product and making everyone believe it's the best
diet for your bird if you really love your bird and care about its health.
--
Mary Arnold
Sparky's Homepage is the place to go if you want to learn about the grey
Congo! "www.neta.com/~tarnold/sparky.html"
"She was not quite what I would call refined,
"She was not quite what I would call unrefined,
"She was the kind of person that keeps a parrot."
Mark Twain
Frederick Wilson <f...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:37962100...@ix.netcom.com...
> Been watching this thread develop and I have a suggestion for all you
> pellet fanciers, especially those who think Harrisons is just the end
> all of pelleted foods. Take the published nutritional values for
> Harrisons ("Feeding Your Pet Bird" published by Barrons is a good place
> to look for the information), then compare that to the nutritional
> values for a high quality seed mix. You can get those values by taking
> and looking up the various seeds in the USDA nutritional database at
> http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/cgi-bin/nut_search.pl
> Those of you who are big pellet supporters are in for a surprise. What
> you will find is that nutritionally there is little difference between
> the two. the primary differences are that Harrisons is low (0% for
> amino acids) in amino acids and trace elements while seeds are low in
> some of the vitamins, but that overall it looks suspiciously like
> Harrisons, and most of the other pelleted foods for that matter, were
> modeled after high quality seed mixes.
> Even the dreaded sunflower seed has more nutritional value than it is
> generally credited http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/cgi-bin/list_nut.pl
> The point here is not that seeds are better, or worse than pelleted
> foods, but rather that each has it's strengths and weaknesses. Neither
> by itself is a really complete diet.
Frederick Wilson
>
> Thank you Fred! :-) I wish Alicia McWatters still had the time to post
> here. She could convince all of you about the virture of seeds. IMO
> pellets are OK as an addition to the bird's diet. The pellet mfgs have done
> a good job marketing their product and making everyone believe it's the best
> diet for your bird if you really love your bird and care about its health.
>
> --
> Mary Arnold
Keep in mind that the manufactured food companies have funded almpost
all the research into bird diets in the last 20 years. that in itself
is no bad thing, but unfortunately they have kept almost all the data
propritary. Most of the studies that have been published are relatively
short termspanning 5 years or less. The longest running test group I am
aware of is maintained by Kaytee, which if I remember correctly has been
kept for 15 years. But if you try to find out how many of the original
birds are still alive you will have a long wait for the answer. Yet
based on this data much of the vetrinary community and a good sized hunk
of the public have been convinced of the health benefits of pelleted
diets. Indeed pellets are given much of the credit for the increasing
"reported" life expectancy of caprive birds, this despite the fact that
pelleted diets have been around a relatively short period, most of them
less than 10 years (and none in their original formulations if the
manufacturers literature is to be believed), of time and still make up
less than a third of the bird food market, indicating that the majority
of caged birds out there that are being included in the increased life
expectancy are in fact on seed diets. This in turn indicates that the
seed diets, knowledge levels of bird owners, and the levels of
vetrinary care have also improved and deserve at least a fair share of
the credit for improving the conditions we keep our companions in.
Now I am a believer in the benefits of pellets. they make my life
easier by far. I don't have to analyze everything I feed to make sure
the vitimins and trace elements are included, and I can feed seed and
veggies more easily to make up for the shortfalls in pellets than if I
were depending entirely on a seed diet.
Mamabird
> >piggies!
SBREA24 <sbr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990721195121...@ng-fl1.aol.com...
>
> I give nutriberries as a treat but aren't they just seed and peanut
butter. I
> don't think there's much "complete nutrition in those"
Read the label. Seeds, cracked corn, peanut bits, wheat, whole eggs and
other natural ingredients - no peanut butter - coated with vitamins,
minerals, carbohydrates and protein.
The various blends contain different healthy ingredients. My birds don't
care for the "fruity" ones, but love the original and the veggie.
I don't think of them as a complete diet, but just one more way to get good
stuff into the birds.
SBREA24
>I don't think of them as a complete diet, but just one more way to ge
Yes I buy them by the 20 lb bag and I did go over the label and it's true,
there's good stuff in there but I like to cover my bases and give lots of other
stuff too. Any time I've asked either of the avian vets down here what is a
good diet for a parrot, they both say the wider the variety the better and lots
of table food, Some people say NEVER give seed to the macaws but just before
bed after eating everything else during the day I give them a small cup as a
filler for the night.
gwen
>
>
>
Pretty Bird and Kaytee have ethoxyquine in it
> which they swear is at levels low enough not to be carcinogenic
Which I for one can not for the life of me
understand why they are still using
ethoxyquine in their pellets.
Even cheaper dog foods are going
for the vitamin "E" type means
for preserving foods.What's it
called Trycoglecirine or something
like that.
I wouldn't even consider feeding
my dogs food that contains this
yet alone my birds. I just do
not comprehend why this is still
being used.
Gwen
Mooringoak
>'magic glue'.
>
>--
>Mary Arnold
I think you are right but for the avi cakes. I don't think it is also used for
the Nutriberries. Or if it is, it's not nearly as much.
Brooke
Mooringoak
>care for the "fruity" ones, but love the original and the veggie.
Fred goes nuts for the fruit ones. He will eat them first then once he sees
there are no more in his dish, he will move on to the veggie then the plain.
Cinder will eat the fruit ones first if it's on top but she doesn't really go
digging for them like Fred.
Brooke
Kellie
> recommended I convert him to Nutriberries. He (Fred) was very sick due to a
> yeast infection so I was hesitant to give him just Nutriberries at first
> (wanted him to eat anything - as long as he was eating and not just laying
> there). Once he made a full recovery, out went the seed. He won't touch
> pellets and will only eat Lafeber's brand - very picky!! He does get other
> foods, but IMO they really make his feathers really beautiful especially in the
> sun. :-)
You mean he eats exclusively nutriberries? Hm. My birds eat nutriberries as a
treat, with seeds and pellets as their staple diet, and fruits and veggies. I
worry about too much refined sugar for them, and molasses would count as refined.
I, personally, have a lot of trouble from eating sugar and have eliminated all but
trace amounts and "special occassion" sugars from my diet. I know human and avian
anatomies are two different things, but I can't imagine processed sugar being good
for birds. In my case sugar causes my insulin levels to wack out so I feel bad and
I gain weight. (Insulin encourages fat storage in humans.) I don't know what
mechanism in the bird's chemistry performs the tasks that insulin performs in
humans but in any case it seems problematic to give them a constant diet of food
containing processed sugar. Fructose, OTOH is easily digestable and doesn't have a
huge effect on human insulin if eaten alone- I kind of suspect bird bodies are not
benefited by too much sugar.
Now, like I said, I do feed my birds nutriberries as treats and of course they get
fruits, but I avoid things with processed sugar for them AND for me. (Don't even
ASK me what my human kids eat! They'd live on Nestles quick and popsickles if I
let them.)
--
Kellie
Kellie
birds, too.
Marianne Ferris-Whitmore wrote:
> Jennifer Graham wrote in message
> <37952CE6...@peachnet.campuscwix.net>...
> > Good luck with the Aspergillosis treatment. It is tough. I saw a macaw
> >today with the worst feathering in the history of poor feathering! I
> >suspect the bird has Aspergillosis or Chlamydia. It's feathers also had
> >a real moth-eaten, greasy appearance. I submitted a sample for fungal
> >culture/sensitivity. When I addressed the whole diet issue, the owner
> >said I was wrong about pellets and a variety of healthy fruits/veggies
> >being a good diet...he says _his_ bird is doing just fine on a seed only
> >diet. Help me - I can't believe this attitude is still so prevalent!!
> >Jennifer
>
> One of 'toos had a few weird feathers. Since I have had birds with PDD, I
> have learned to expect the worst. I immediately thought Beak and feather.
> Vet took one look, discounted that possibilty, suspected plain old yeast.
> Was treated with Diflucan for 21 days, and was perfectly fine and is now
> beautifully feathered.
>
> What I was wondering, for future reference, is when do you decide it may be
> beak and feather? The thing that really had me concerned was that she
> wasn't very dusty. In my mind, lack of powder means Beak and Feather. Is
> there something that distinguishes Beak and Feather? Just asking because
> of my tendency to panic. I was really in such a state this last go round.
>
> Marianne
--
Kellie
Mamabird
--
Mama
Visit "Mamabird's Nest" at http://members.tripod.com/~iluvbirds/
To email reply: Change nest to net.
"Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug."
------
> >Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall that molasses is
the
> >'magic glue'.
> >
> >--
> >Mary Arnold
Mooringoak <moori...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990722174218...@ng-fu1.aol.com...
Frederick Wilson
>
> This is absolutely fascinating.
the information on nutritional values is available from virtually all
pellet manufacturers. It can be obtained by writing them (either email
or snail) or by calling their 800 numbers. the nutritional data, other
than fat protien, etc. is a little harder to get for seed mixes. You
have to look up each type of seed in a nutritional database.
Rocio Carrasco
Kevin Chu <ke...@portal.ca> wrote in message
news:3796606A...@portal.ca...
> Jennifer Graham wrote:
>
> > I prefer Nutriberries over a seed only diet. The do have seeds and are
> > rolled with molasses (therefore, high sugar), but they also contain
> Avi-Cakes) were held together with magic glue -- i.e. nutritious
> stuff. The NBs also have bits of peanuts and things.
>
The NB's are held togther with whole egg...as glue.
Frederick Wilson
Seeds are somewhat fatty and should be given in moderation to
> Amazons that tend to pack on the fat but is helpful in birds that need to gain
> weight.
Once again it depends on the mixture. Seed mixes can be lower in fat
than the lowest pellets, or they can be higher it all depends on whats
in them.
An example is millet. You see millet being bad mouthed all the time as
being only acceptable as a treat because it is "High" in fat. When you
read literature on diets for Amazons Millet along with sunflower seeds
is considered a no no because of it's fat content. Yet if anyone
bothered to look it up they would find that it is lower in fat at 4%
than any manufactured diet on the market.
Kevin Chu
> I wish Alicia McWatters still had the time to post here. She
> could convince all of you about the virture of seeds.
Been there done that. Didn't work.
SBREA24
>I wouldn't even consider feeding
>my dogs food that contains this
>yet alone my birds. I just do
>not comprehend why this is still
>being used.
I can't comprehend it either and I wish someone other than a P.R> person for
Pretty Bird or Kaytee would tell me, also about metal shavings in the pellets
SBREA24
exactly!! has any definitive research been done on how much ethoxyquine is safe
for birds???Noone knows this least of all the company people I bet.
SBREA24
>also vets but I'm always open to different ideas. Do you feed your birds
>seed mixes instead of pellets?
> Mario
Amazons are better on more pellets and less seed due to the fact they get fat
easilly and vets will often tell you fatty tumors on the liver are found on
necropsy in overweight Amazons that die. I have a macaw that I'm trying to push
his weight so he gets a big bowl of a good seed mix at bedtime. They all get
all the other stuff during the day.
SBREA24
>Harrisons, and most of the other pelleted foods for that matter, were
>modeled after high quality seed mixes.
>Even the dreaded sunflower seed has more nutritional value than it is
>generally credited http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/cgi-bin/list_nut.pl
>The point here is not that seeds are better, or worse than pelleted
>foods, but rather that each has it's strengths and weaknesses. Neither
>by itself is a really complete diet.
A good post and I agree with you and see you've done your homework on this one.
Seeds have gone the full circle. Always fed as a staple main diet for birds,
then came pellets and seeds were banished as an evil fatty non nutritional no
no and now they are back. certainly they should be included as part of the
total very varied diet. Everyone either loves nutriberries or seed or pellets.
Hey give it all and fruits and veggies and nuts and table food and your birds
will be fine. Seeds are somewhat fatty and should be given in moderation to
SBREA24
>Subject: Re: Harrison's vrs. Pretty Bird
>From: Frederick Wilson f...@ix.netcom.com
>Date: Wed, 21 July 1999 07:35 PM EDT
>Message-id: <3796592F...@ix.netcom.com>
>
>Mario Ferraro wrote:
>>
>> But especially for an Amazon who tend to be obese, wouldn't you agree
>> that pellets have less fat and better nutriton and that the weaknesses
>> of pellets are less signifigant then the weaknesses of seeds? I'm not
>> sure I'm just going by what I have researched, read, been told by
>> breeders, and also vets but I'm always open to different ideas. Do
>> you feed your birds seed mixes instead of pellets?
>> Mario
>>
>>
>
>have seed mixes from Sunseed that are 6%, from Kaytee that are 15% and
>from Preferred 7%. Currently I have Hagen Pellets 10%, Lafabre 11%,
>Harrisons 5.5% and Rainbow 6%. As you may guess I feed a combination of
>seed mix and pellets (about 40% pellets and 60% seed mix at the moment).
>I think that way I cover the shortages in both without sacrificing on
This is absolutely fascinating. May I print this, you do know your stuff. must
admit I,m impressed!
SBREA24
>> a good job marketing their product and making everyone believe it's the
>best
>> diet for your bird if you really love your bird and care about its health.
I hope the product is as good as the P.R. but I wonder......
rtootie
Would anyone have the phone # for Parrot Express toys?
Darlene
Mamabird
Just thought you'd like to know... just in case you're expecting yourself
to answer the questions you asked yourself.
--
Mama
Visit "Mamabird's Nest" at http://members.tripod.com/~iluvbirds/
To email reply: Change nest to net.
"Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug."
------
SBREA24 <sbr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990721140810...@ng-cn1.aol.com...
> >true, do we know if the carcinogenic levels are dangerous for birds?
>
SBREA24 <sbr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990722232944...@ng-fg1.aol.com...
gwen
I have never heard of metal shavings in the
food, yet it wouldn't be a total surprise
to me after all the research I have done
on dog food. It is amazing the things
that are swept off the floor and put
into some dog/cat foods.:-(
One thing I would like to add about
Harrison's is that IMHO it is WAY
over priced considering you can
get TOP of the line dog food,(Flint River,
Innova, California Natural, Solid Gold,
Old Mother Hubbard, Ulitmate Diet etc.)
that contains ORGANIC meats
like lamb, chicken etc for no
more than $45.00 for a 35+ lb
bag and yet a 20lb bag of Harrison's
costs around $100.00! It doesn't contain
any meats and to my knowledge doesn't contain
one single organic item. It just goes to show
the manufactures do know how to stick
it to us Pet owners.
Gwen
who would prefer to use Alicia McWaters
natural recipe over the cost of Harrison's anyday
Gwen
Doug Cook
so far no one has been able to show me a bird that has lived for a
period of 10 years
on a primarily pellet diet. No study group, no breeder, and no pet owner
has reported a 10 year survivor of these diets.
Gout and kidney failure are the usual causes of pellet-eaters early
demise. Pellets may be ok as a part of the overall
diet, but should not be the primary food IMO
Doug
"Here I sit in my mediocre splendor..."
-Art Bell
toni
Kevin Chu wrote in message <379803E7...@portal.ca>...
toni
Frederick Wilson wrote in message <3797FDAE...@ix.netcom.com>...
>SBREA24 wrote:
> Seeds are somewhat fatty and should be given in moderation to
>> Amazons that tend to pack on the fat but is helpful in birds that need to
gain
>> weight.
>
Frederick Wilson
>
> roudybush low fat maintenance pellets contain only 3% fat. toni
>
>
Since the literature I have from roudybush is several months old I am
going to guess they have changed their formulation. what I have lists
it at 4.5%, I notice the regular pellets have a different fat content
listed on the package than the literature they sent me, 7% vs 6.5