So what's wrong with a dremel tool anyway?

[Shari_Heino]

The guy who wrote about using a Dremmel power tool got flamed for it (from what
I could tell), but what's so bad about using a Dremel power tool? I've used
one with all my animals without a complaint. Is there something I'm missing?
-Shari

--
Shari Heino, UT Law, class of '98 * And the Totally Wild Kingdom:
sh...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu * Dogs: Wylie, Sebastian, Atta, & Ricochet
http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~shari * Parrots: Scooter, Pooki, & Kiko; Cat: Gus

[Janet Milller]

Nothings wrong with a dremel tool, perhaps there is with the person using
it. At the hospital we own, a dremel is used for the nails and beak
trimming. The speed of the dremel acts as a cautery unit at the same
time the nail is ground smooth.

[DMACAW]

Also, a hand held dremel tool is a bit safer than the plug-in kind. The
rotor (tool on the end which grinds the nails) on the hand held kind will
stop if you or the bird grabs it.

D. Adams
dmacaw @aol.com

[Jerry Anderson]

DMACAW (dma...@aol.com) wrote:
: Also, a hand held dremel tool is a bit safer than the plug-in kind. The

: D. Adams
: dmacaw @aol.com

It all depends on who is doing the work here. The first vet we wnent to
almost killed our budgie with his damn dremel! He nicked the bird's toes
in about 4 spots and nearly cut off one toe completely! And he couldn't
get the bleeding to stop! My wife finally called her girlfriend who
recommended we take him to her vet and he finally got the bleeding under
control. The toe was "saved" but stayed swollen and unusable.
--

[Mike Owen]

j...@iglou.iglou.com (Jerry Anderson) wrote:
>
>It all depends on who is doing the work here. The first vet we wnent to
>almost killed our budgie with his damn dremel! He nicked the bird's toes
>in about 4 spots and nearly cut off one toe completely! And he couldn't
>get the bleeding to stop! My wife finally called her girlfriend who
>recommended we take him to her vet and he finally got the bleeding under
>control. The toe was "saved" but stayed swollen and unusable.
>--
>

Now I've heard everything, using a grinder to trim a poor little budgies
toes! Some vets need committing. It reminds me of a cockatiel a
customer bought into my shop which bled to death in my hands as a result
of a bad wing clip by a local vet (butcher!). A beautiful cinnamon pearl
hen we had sold a few months earlier which I had hand-raised. A
complaint to the Vet Board produced the predictable response of vets
know best but accidents can happen.

Right at the start of this thread I posted the comment that if the
perches a bird has are of the correct diameter, then no nail clipping
should be needed, since the perch is keeping the tips of the nail worn.
None of my 7 pet budgies and 7 pet cockatiels (these are the house pets,
not my aviary pets) ever need a nail trim. I use eucalypt branches as
perches thick enough to ensure the tips of the nail share in holding on.
If any of the birds start to develop sharp or long nails, then a fresh
perch will fix the problem in a few days.

cheers, Mike Owen, Queensland, Australia.

[Cathy Quinones]

In article <414mms$s...@dingo.cc.uq.oz.au>, Mike Owen <mo...@peg.apc.org.au> wrote: >Right at the start of this thread I posted the comment that if the >perches a bird has are of the correct diameter, then no nail clipping >should be needed, since the perch is keeping the tips of the nail worn. >None of my 7 pet budgies and 7 pet cockatiels (these are the house pets, >not my aviary pets) ever need a nail trim. I use eucalypt branches as >perches thick enough to ensure the tips of the nail share in holding on. >If any of the birds start to develop sharp or long nails, then a fresh >perch will fix the problem in a few days. Can you send me some eucalyptus, please? I totally agree with you. We recently moved from the California coast (which possibly has more Eucalyptus than Australia itself ;) where I had a ready supply to eucalyptus branches. Now we are elsewhere and although I've seen a couple eucalyptus trees I hesitate to collect any branches because god knows what they may have been sprayed with. So now all my 5 birds are either stuck with old eucalyptus branches (and in the case of the senegal, she's got those rope perches in her cage). And all of a sudden everyone has long, sharp toenails! I'm on the verge of investing in some of those concrete perches because I don't appreciate this clipping of 20 little toenails almost 1/month. Some enterprising person should start selling chunks of eucalyptus... manzanita is sold by many vendors but I've yet to see eucalyptus branches for sale. And those are so much fun: the birds just LOVE to strip the bark off. And they smell so good. (can you tell I love eucalyptus trees?!) /////////////////// // | ~ | ///////////////////// /////// /\_/\_____ \\ | quin...@mindspring.com | //// Poicephalus //// /////// \"."/ \_// | | ////// rule!! ////// ///////////////////////// | http://www.mindspring.com/~mintz/coverpg.html //

[Mike Owen]

Cathy, Would love to send you some Eucalypt but the freight might cost a
bit more than from California! By the way I've been to California and it
is way behind in the quantity of Eucalypt.

Glad to see someone else has found the same result of using natural
perches, wihich keep the claws short and keep the birds entertained. We
put fresh Eucalypt and Acacia branches into our home and shop aviaries at
every opportunity. Eucalyptus oil has a reputation to rival the old
snake oil for curing all bird ills, and feather plucking is not a
problem.

cheers, Mike Owen, Queensland, Australia

[Cathy Quinones]

In article <4178im$i...@dingo.cc.uq.oz.au>, Mike Owen <mo...@peg.apc.org.au> wrote: >Glad to see someone else has found the same result of using natural >perches, wihich keep the claws short and keep the birds entertained. We >put fresh Eucalypt and Acacia branches into our home and shop aviaries at >every opportunity. Eucalyptus oil has a reputation to rival the old >snake oil for curing all bird ills, and feather plucking is not a >problem. We used to get a fresh branch (the new growth that's all bright green and tender) and hang a piece in the 'tiel's cage. He'd go crazy: he'd run to it and snip each leaf at the pedicel. If we got him some flower buds, he'd chew those up too. In no time there'd be a skeleton of a branch, all the leaves would be removed systematically! We used to joke that if Sid ever escaped we'd be able to find him by following the trail of defoliation up the edge of town :) Australia must indeed have a lot of trees if it also has that many 'tiels and 'toos ;) Another thing I noticed (and maybe you can corroborate): after such an eucalyptus fest, the 'tiel would sit looking contented and mellow. I always wondered if this was because he was happy after having much fun destroying something, or if it had to do with him ingesting eucalyptus oils that may have a soothing/calming/sedating effect. I know the plant is used by people for its astringent, antiseptic, expectorant and bug-repelling qualities. I just love the stuff :) /////////////////// // | ~ | ///////////////////// /////// /\_/\_____ \\ | quin...@mindspring.com | //// Poicephalus //// /////// \"."/ \_// | | ////// rule!! ////// ///////////////////////// | http://www.mindspring.com/~mintz/coverpg.html //

[Dennis L]

sh...@sylvester.cc.utexas.edu (Shari_Heino) wrote:

>The guy who wrote about using a Dremmel power tool got flamed for it (from what
>I could tell), but what's so bad about using a Dremel power tool? I've used
>one with all my animals without a complaint. Is there something I'm missing?
>-Shari

The best damn vet in the Phoenix area uses a dremel tool regularly for
may things. Nothing's wrong with it as long as you know what you're
doing.

[Dennis L]

Mike Owen <mo...@peg.apc.org.au> wrote:

>Right at the start of this thread I posted the comment that if the
>perches a bird has are of the correct diameter, then no nail clipping
>should be needed, since the perch is keeping the tips of the nail worn.
>None of my 7 pet budgies and 7 pet cockatiels (these are the house pets,
>not my aviary pets) ever need a nail trim. I use eucalypt branches as
>perches thick enough to ensure the tips of the nail share in holding on.
>If any of the birds start to develop sharp or long nails, then a fresh
>perch will fix the problem in a few days.

I do not believe this is 100% true. BTW:Eucalyptus is a smooth, hard
wood.

[Mike Owen]

quin...@mindspring.com (Cathy Quinones) wrote:
>
in reply to my posting about eucalypt branches:-

>Another thing I noticed (and maybe you can corroborate): after such an
>eucalyptus fest, the 'tiel would sit looking contented and mellow. I always
>wondered if this was because he was happy after having much fun destroying
>something, or if it had to do with him ingesting eucalyptus oils that may have
>a soothing/calming/sedating effect. I know the plant is used by people for
>its astringent, antiseptic, expectorant and bug-repelling qualities. I just
>love the stuff :)
>

Cathy, Sounds familiar - I'm sure its because they have had a great time
chewing, AND, the eucalypt oil makes them feel good.

[Cathy Quinones]

In article <4197v3$h...@nnrp3.primenet.com>, dl...@primenet.com (Dennis L) wrote: >Mike Owen <mo...@peg.apc.org.au> wrote: >>Right at the start of this thread I posted the comment that if the >>perches a bird has are of the correct diameter, then no nail clipping >>should be needed, since the perch is keeping the tips of the nail worn. >>None of my 7 pet budgies and 7 pet cockatiels (these are the house pets, >>not my aviary pets) ever need a nail trim. I use eucalypt branches as >>perches thick enough to ensure the tips of the nail share in holding on. >>If any of the birds start to develop sharp or long nails, then a fresh >>perch will fix the problem in a few days. >I do not believe this is 100% true. BTW:Eucalyptus is a smooth, hard >wood. It may be once it's built into furniture (e.g., we have a futon frame made of eucalyptus wood and it IS darn smooth). HOWEVER, if you are talking about branches right off the tree, they may look smooth but the bark and surface is NOT hard at all. In fact, one of the trademarks of Eucalyptus globulus, the blue gum tree at least I am talking about, is the way the bark strips off the trunk in these loooong, spongy strips. Smaller branches are likewise "peelable." This means that when a bird perches on such a branch, the claws dig into the surface of the perch, and that's how they get worn down. Apparently, after the branch has been exposed to birds for a while, the surface becomes worn (from birdie beaks and toenails?) and in general smoother, and that's when I notice the toenails "suddenly" start needing more trimming. I've had my senegal pull a "Willey Coyote" trick a few times (chew through the attachment point of a perch, while she was standing on it) so the wood can be reasonably soft and chewable. It's probably also important that Mike and I were talking about branches right off the tree or that had fallen off the tree recently (and, in my case, branches that were on an area envoloped by costal fog almost daily). The moisture content of those branches is probably much higher than "average" (meaing, any store-bought perch) and that means the wood is probably pretty soft still. /////////////////// // | ~ | ///////////////////// /////// /\_/\_____ \\ | quin...@mindspring.com | //// Poicephalus //// /////// \"."/ \_// | | ////// rule!! ////// ///////////////////////// | http://www.mindspring.com/~mintz/coverpg.html //

[Jennifer Wright]

Hello all,

If the eucalyptus was okay with 'tiels would it also be okay with budgies?

Thanks,
Jen

[John Darrell Kesling]

Dennis L (dl...@primenet.com) wrote:

>The best damn vet in the Phoenix area uses a dremel tool regularly for
>may things. Nothing's wrong with it as long as you know what you're
>doing.

Dennis, I may be the cause of this thread. In another thread someone
made the comment that they used a Dremel for their birds nails. I
simply made the comment:

I wouldn't recommend that a novice use power tools to trim
their birds nails.

Or something similar.

I still believe the above statement to be valid.

I also added the following comments:

It is too easy to cause harm to your bird.
It is very difficult to sterilize properly.

I believe these points are also valid.

The fact that the "best damn vet in the Phoenix area" uses a
Dremel does not imply that everyone should use one.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said:
"Nothing's wrong with it when you know what what you're doing."

So what's wrong with the Dremel tool anyway?
Nothing, it's just a tool! The problem is in it's use or misuse.

John
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Kesling - jkes...@eng.utoledo.edu or jkes...@shell.portal.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WA8ZGO - via AX.25 packet radio WA8...@W8HHF.OH.USA
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Mike Owen]

Eucalyptus branches and leaves are fine for all Australian Parrots,
after all that is almost the only tree many ever see! The budgies in my
shop LOVE it. Don't know about non-Australian Parrots, except that
Indian Ringnecks, Alexandrines, Plumb Heads and other Asiatics like it as
well.

cheers, Mike Owen, Queensland,, Australia

[Len Zielenski]

sh...@sylvester.cc.utexas.edu (Shari_Heino) wrote:

>The guy who wrote about using a Dremmel power tool got flamed for it (from what
>I could tell), but what's so bad about using a Dremel power tool? I've used
>one with all my animals without a complaint. Is there something I'm missing?
>-Shari

Try trimming your toe nails with one and then ask that question.

Len
Le...@earthlink.net
L.Zie...@genie.geis.com
Len...@AOL.com

[Cathy Quinones]

In article <41qtnh$j...@mars.earthlink.net>, le...@earthlink.net (Len Zielenski) wrote: >sh...@sylvester.cc.utexas.edu (Shari_Heino) wrote: >>The guy who wrote about using a Dremmel power tool got flamed for it (from what >>I could tell), but what's so bad about using a Dremel power tool? I've used >>one with all my animals without a complaint. Is there something I'm missing? >>-Shari >Try trimming your toe nails with one and then ask that question. For the sake of the argument, if we are talking about a human with long nails, the sensation will be similar to what a bird feels: there will be noise, and there will be vibration. If you are talking about using a dremmel tool close to the person's finger or bed of the nail, I'll agree that it's bound to be painful. However, that is not how bird toenails are set up. I think people need to stop having knee-jerk reactions to the idea of using a dremmel tool near a bird. Let's think how a dremmel tool could be good or bad: Dremmel BAD because: -it could be scary, in particular because of the noise generated. Counterargument: a lot of birds seem undisturbed by loud sounds and by totally unnatural acts, such as being dried with a hand-held hair dryer. - it could slip and hurt the bird. Counterarg.: if the person has experience with using the tool AND the bird is properly restrained, chances of accidents go way down. Likewise, someone who has no clue about how much pressure to apply, what speed to use, how to hold/restrain the bird, is likely to mess up, with dire consequences. - it can't be sterilized between birds This is a concern if a 3rd party's dremmel is being used (e.g., a vet's or a professional groomer) but if one's doing it at home it should be a minimal concern. - it can be uncomfortable because the friction upon the nail generates heat and the vibration can be an ikky feeling Counterarg.: as to the heat, filing can also generate heat, although less. THe ikkyness of the feeling persists if, say, a nail file is used. Likewise, the toe is held by a person whether the nail is being filed, clipped or dremmel-ed down. - it cauterizes the capillary should the quick of the nail be reached [and this can happen, in particular with birds with VERY overgrown nails it may be a necessity in order to bring the nail to a safe, comfortable length.] Dremmel tool GOOD because - if done well, it can speed up the process and produce a very good result (smooth nails... not what I usually get, say, by using a toenail clipper). Speed can be very good because a restrained bird is usually struggling and probably getting more overheated by the second. - if the bird is used to it, it won't be stressed out by the sound or sensation any more than another bird would by the sensation of nail scissors or the use of a hand-held file. .. which is to say that people CAN hurt a bird by doing things the wrong way. This applies to squishing the $&^# out of the bird while holding it as much as it applies to accidentally using the dremmel on the wrong body part. If you have never done something, have the vet or breeder or experienced handler show you how. Then get an assistant to help you as needed. If you don't feel comfortable doing a certain procedure, have someone else do it, pay up and be pleased with yourself. Groom the animal as needed (as opposed to delaying it or blowing it off). Use common sense. /////////////////// // | ~ | ///////////////////// /////// /\_/\_____ \\ | quin...@mindspring.com | //// Poicephalus //// /////// \"."/ \_// | | ////// rule!! ////// ///////////////////////// | http://www.mindspring.com/~mintz/coverpg.html //

[John Darrell Kesling]

Cathy Quinones (quin...@mindspring.com) wrote:

>For the sake of the argument, if we are talking about a human with long nails,
>the sensation will be similar to what a bird feels: there will be noise, and
>there will be vibration. If you are talking about using a dremmel tool close
>to the person's finger or bed of the nail, I'll agree that it's bound to be
>painful. However, that is not how bird toenails are set up.

That's true. If your bird has dark nails it virtually impossible
to see the quick and know where to stop. It's much easier on humans.

> - it can't be sterilized between birds
> This is a concern if a 3rd party's dremmel is being used
>(e.g., a vet's or a professional groomer) but if one's doing it at home it
>should be a minimal concern.
>

I think the concern should be more than "minimal". Even if
you only have one bird and only use the Dremel for that birds nails I'd
still be concerned. The stones used in the Dremel are porous, I would
expect they would provide an ideal place for bacteria to breed.
Add to that some of the things that may be on your birds nails, feces,
partly decomposed soft food, maybe a little blood from the last time
the quick was hit. I'd be very concerned with sterilization.

> - it cauterizes the capillary should the quick of the nail be reached
>[and this can happen, in particular with birds with VERY overgrown nails it
>may be a necessity in order to bring the nail to a safe, comfortable length.]

Are you sure about that? What temperature does it take to cauterize?
If you are using the Dremel properly you shouldn't be generating enough
heat to cauterize. Not to mention that if you do hit the quick the blood
released would reduce the friction and the temperature even more.

> - if done well, it can speed up the process and produce a very good
>result (smooth nails... not what I usually get, say, by using a toenail
>clipper). Speed can be very good because a restrained bird is usually
>struggling and probably getting more overheated by the second.

If the birds nails are long it will take longer to grind the excess length
with a Dremel than it would to snip it with the proper clipper. The
results probably would be smoother with the Dremel however.

>Then get an assistant to help you as needed. If you don't feel
>comfortable doing a certain procedure, have someone else do it, pay up and
>be pleased with yourself. Groom the animal as needed (as opposed to delaying
>it or blowing it off). Use common sense.

Good advice!

The Dremel is just a tool. Used properly it can be a plus, even when used
on birds nails. But if used improperly, on birds nails, it can be a source
of discomfort and disease.

[Mike Owen]

After seeing all this talk about Dremel tools, ad nauseum for a couple
of weeks, can someone enlighten me about just what a Dremel tool is
please?
--

Cheers, Mike Owen, Mooloolaba, Queensland, Australia.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
to see where Mooloolaba is try:-
http://peg.pegasus.oz.au/~futurecom/map.htm

[Cathy Quinones]

In article <41ut7c$k...@dingo.cc.uq.oz.au>, Mike Owen <mo...@peg.apc.org.au> wrote: >After seeing all this talk about Dremel tools, ad nauseum for a couple >of weeks, can someone enlighten me about just what a Dremel tool is >please? Mike, I would have replied to you directly but e-mail to you bounces, apparently other people also have had this problem. A dremmel is nothing but a motorized drill-like tool with attachable bits. Some of the bits are very much like what you would use with an electric drill, except they are usually smaller. The ones people are talkin about here are bits used for sanding, ie., they have a little stone that can be used to smooth down the surface in question. I think Dremmel is a brand name, btw. Dremmels come in various sizes. They are used in surgery even (e.g., for drilling holes through skulls). I'd go as far as to suggest that the little drill that dentists use is nothing but a glorified dremmel. I get the feeling many people may be thinking of routers :) or band saws or something in this discussion, judging by the alarm rate!! The dremmels I have used were all hand-held, pretty light and quite maneuverable (as opposed to, say, the so-called hand-held power drill my old housemate had, which was so heavy that whenever I used it I feld like I was wielding a jackhammer! I never used this tool on my birds, by the way!!, but I'm sure that with the right attachment.... ;) ;) ;) /////////////////// // | ~ | ///////////////////// /////// /\_/\_____ \\ | quin...@mindspring.com | //// Poicephalus //// /////// \"."/ \_// | | ////// rule!! ////// ///////////////////////// | http://www.mindspring.com/~mintz/coverpg.html //

[Kevin Michael Chu]

In article <41v6g1$15...@news.mindspring.com>,
quin...@mindspring.com (Cathy Quinones) wrote:

> In article <41ut7c$k...@dingo.cc.uq.oz.au>,
> Mike Owen <mo...@peg.apc.org.au> wrote:

>> After seeing all this talk about Dremel tools, ad nauseum for a couple
>> of weeks, can someone enlighten me about just what a Dremel tool is
>> please?

> A dremmel is nothing but a motorized drill-like tool with attachable
> bits.

> down the surface in question. I think Dremmel is a brand name, btw.

Hmmm how can I describe a Dremel tool.... Dremel is indeed a
brand name, pronounced DREM-mul, and it's a very-high rpm bit
rotator (I'd hesitate to call it a drill) shaped and held like a
huge pencil. Dremel tools produce both very-high rpm rates and
enough torque to seriously wound a human, let alone a birdie
foot. Dremel tools are unwieldy and anyone using a Dremel tool
should be qualified to do so, and should wear appropriate eye
protection, etc.. I bet anyone within ten feet or so could get a
pretty good stab wound from flying broken-bit pieces. In my
opinion there are safer things to use to trim nails and beaks.

> drill that dentists use is nothing but a glorified dremmel.

I haven't been to the dentist in years (I'll omit the childhood
terror stories) but the drill my dentist had had the motor hidden
somewhere and the bits were turned by a really long belt drive.

> The dremmels I have

Dremel is a brand name, like Jeep, Kleenex, Rollerblade, and
Skil. :) I don't exactly remember what Dremel calls their
pencil-like tool, but Moto-Tool sticks in my mind for some
reason. (Moto-Tool would still not be a generic name.)

There are similar less-dangerous bit rotators that could probably
be candidates for nail/beak trims. The Black & Decker cordless
screwdriver comes to mind (low rpm). I like what our vet uses --
good old nail clippers and manual filing. She does have a Dremel
tool but I've never seen her use it on anything except cutting a
disc for Sidney's collar (which Sidney isn't wearing right now,
YAY!).

Anyone really interested in seeing a Dremel tool should be able
to visit their local hardware/tool shop. They're handy to have
around for non-nail-and-beak-trimming uses. :)

--
Kevin Chu, an OS/2 user. kev...@wimsey.ca
Store in a cool dry place. This note is not legal tender.
Recyclable where facilities exist. For best results use alkaline
batteries. Do not eat. Best before 08/28/96.

[Cathy Quinones]

In article <fFXRwACK...@wimsey.ca>, kev...@wimsey.ca (Kevin Michael Chu) wrote: >Hmmm how can I describe a Dremel tool.... Dremel is indeed a >brand name, pronounced DREM-mul, and it's a very-high rpm bit >rotator (I'd hesitate to call it a drill) shaped and held like a >huge pencil. Dremel tools produce both very-high rpm rates and >enough torque to seriously wound a human, let alone a birdie >foot. Dremel tools are unwieldy and anyone using a Dremel tool >should be qualified to do so, and should wear appropriate eye >protection, etc.. I bet anyone within ten feet or so could get a >pretty good stab wound from flying broken-bit pieces. In my >opinion there are safer things to use to trim nails and beaks. Kevin, guess what I got for my birthday??? :) No, I haven't tested the Dremmel on the bird's toes yet but I have been reading the booklet. The difference between a dremmel and a drill is basically speed: the dremmel is capable of a really high rate of rotations per minute, and does the work by hitting the same spot (with whatever tip one is using) again and again and again while the person applies very little force. A power drill, in contrast, "spins" a lot less quickly, meaning that in order to speed up the process the human operator applies force to help along. In this context, people have been talking about using the sanding stones to wear down (and effectively trim) the nails and beaks of birds... considering the nature of beaks & nails [and from many years of filing my own nails], I can tell you that the keratinized material files down to dust, I don't think there will be chunks of toenail shrapnel ;) BUT I agree with you in the warning. >There are similar less-dangerous bit rotators that could probably >be candidates for nail/beak trims. The Black & Decker cordless >screwdriver comes to mind (low rpm). Herein lies the difference between a cordless screwdriver (or drill) and a dremmel. The dremmel works at high speed, and therefore requires that the operator use a light touch. As such, it is safer to use one because, with bird safely restrained, the experienced user can gently move the spinning stone to the toenail or beak tip and do the job without applying a bunch of pressure upon the bird. I know from personal experience that with a drill you HAVE to push in order to get the bit to drill or whatever (btw, I don't mean experience drilling into birds!!!! boy, am I glad I caught that one in time!). Dremmels are also lighter than most drills. AND [aren't you glad I read the pamphlet!], there's even an attachment that extends the working tip [sort of like those "snakes" plumbers use in conjunction with a drill to unplug clogged drains] which is light and about as easy to handle as a pencil. There's also a router attachment AND a chainsaw sharpening kit! Surprisingly, "trimming pet toenails and beaks" was not listed in the "175+ ways to use your dremmel" booklet that came with the tool. And, no, I have no intention of trying the dremmel on any of my birds... not yet anyhow! I did see a suggestion of "cutting plastic pipes" so I can already see myself using this nifty toy to cut pvc pipes and other materials and making lots of bird toys!!! We were joking about dremmels as pedicure tools and I was telling my SO that I could see how using a dremmel makes sense with medium-large parrots, large dogs, etc... but that I couldn't justify its use on small birds. Then [here comes a distasteful comment] I said something along the lines of "yeah, I can imagine doing the finch's toenails and going, whoa! I accidentally filed him down all the way to the neck! Poor Johnny!!!!" From the info that came with the dremmel, it is obvious this thing can be quite powerful and yet also can be used to work VERY fine detail. I'm not telling anyone to go buy one and sand down the birds [hey, I could sculpt Mango in to a lovebird-sized senegal!!!!] but I also don't think we should completely rule out dremmels as possibly safe grooming tools AT THE HANDS OF A SKILLED, sober OPERATOR, ASSUMING A SAFELY RESTRAINED BIRD, ET CETERA!!!!! /////////////////// // | ~ | ///////////////////// /////// /\_/\_____ \\ | quin...@mindspring.com | //// Poicephalus //// /////// \"."/ \_// | | ////// rule!! ////// ///////////////////////// | http://www.mindspring.com/~mintz/coverpg.html //

[the End]

FM64to91,

How would you feel about a $5 rotory nail file for humans?

Thanks,

JIm

[FM46to91]

I have seen my vet (Gary Gallerstein) use a Dremel on my male parrotlet to
smooth out his overgrown beak after use of nail clippers. Dremels (or
similar tools by another name) have been known to cause considerable
damage to the human nail bed if not used cautiously. (I am a licensed
manicurist.) With extreme care, I might consider using a battery-driven
tool for a few seconds only, using the finest grade bit available. But
you need a very steady hand plus instruction, IMHO.
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"Darling, I'm simply dripping with money. It may be vulgar but it's
wonderful!" -- Freddie Mercury (1985)
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