Teflon cookware distance question
Sara Mullahy
I keep reading all these posts about teflon and how bad it is for the
birds. Needless to say I'm starting to really worry. I live in a house
with two roomates, and we only have one non-stick pan (a frying pan so it
isn't used all that often), but I obviously can't ask them to stop using
teflon all together. So what I'm asking is, will my bird be ok in a room
with a closed door at the end of the hall from the kitchen be ok if an
accident should occur? Would running the fan in the kitchen during
cooking help?
I have seen many posts with people asking what the safe distance is, but
no one seems to be able to answer. I'd apreciate any information.
SARA
--
_____________________________________________________________________________
You always have boundaries. Let someone else chose them, they are
restrictions; chose them yourself, and they are principles.
--by someone :)
Adam Sundor
1. Good for body building, especially the wrists and shapely forearms
2. Not obvious a weapon like kitchen knives
3. With acidic foods, tomatoes, gives much needed iron for women,
beaucoup iron - men might get too much here - health for roomies?
4. When oiled and baked the first time, supposedly as good as teflon
Should have instructions about oiling and baking the pan unused
in the oven for an hour or so at low temperature to condition it
There are some rather healthy oil sprays, canola or olive, quite
popular, so low fat and can make no stick for sure with wooden utensils
How's that? I don't know the air circulation properties in your place.
I assume it's _not_ a forced-air with ducts? An exhaust fan would
help, assuming it exhausts to the outside, you can see the exhaust
or where does it go? Toxicity depends on the bird. Just remember the poor
canary in the mines. Heating is not an issue where you live, but air
conditioning may be. Is it central air conditioning or separate units
if there are air conditioning units? Trying to track the flow of air
in the place. Once these restrictions are known, then safe boundaries
can be interpolated.
Adam S.
Sara Mullahy (ez04...@boris.ucdavis.edu) wrote:
: Hi everyone.
JohnH
I am not 100% sure, but I think this stuff is so poisonous,
that even the small amount that goes down a hallway is
dangerous. Just as you can smell smoke (or frying bacon!)
from the other end of a house, the birds can breath this
stuff. Could you just buy a replacement frying pan, and
sleep easier ?
- John H.
In article <4k7nui$o...@mark.ucdavis.edu>, ez04...@boris.ucdavis.edu says...
Botnik
sund...@assets.wharton.upenn.edu (Adam Sundor) wrote:
> For $10, one can purchase authentic cast iron skillets which are:
If I had roomies with a PTFE nonstick pan, I'd steal it and
replace it with one of these cast-iron skillets. I would
properly prepare it for the roomies. Anyy bird is worth much
more than $10.
--
Kevin Chu
kev...@wimsey.ca
Sara Mullahy
Well some people have really obviously given my questin some thought, and
thanks for all the useful replies both here and in email. But this is
kinda silly. How many roomates do you know who will stand for having a
frying pan stolen? What I'm going to do is ask them to be careful (which
they already are) and have them run the fan that vents to outside. Both
these things are practical.
Stealing a pan is not.
Thanks again
SARA
Botnik (kev...@wimsey.ca) wrote:
: In article <4k83ud$3...@netnews.upenn.edu>,
--
LayneDinLA
the hell that is.
If you use non-stick cookware or allow it to be used in the same house
with birds, you are risking their lives and will have no one to blame but
YOURSELF if anything happens.
It only takes one, small, momentary mistake.
Layne
Layne...@aol.com (Layne David Dicker)
Georgia McGrath
the ceiling within 6 feet of the stove. Almost all of my frying pans, and
many of my pots, have teflon linings. The birds have been there for
several years, before I'd heard of the teflon problem. We got a parrotlet
about a year ago, and that was when we learned of the teflon danger.
One time about a year ago we were using a frying pan and one of the
parakeets fell off his perch. (This isn't that unusual, he's a real
klutz, but he didn't look good - seemed a bit disoriented.) He recovered
in a couple of minutes; by then we were finished cooking, and I turned on
the kitchen fan. Since that time, I've always used the kitchen fan when
I'm using teflon, but we've never had any more parakeet incidents. We do
remove the parrotlet from the kitchen when we're cooking - because he's
likely to end up in the pot.
I'd go out and buy a non-teflon pan that's better than the pan in use
now, in case your roommates forget to put the fan on. And keep your bird
out of the kitchen when you're not around, for many reasons.
Adam Sundor
: *rolls eyes*
: thanks for all the useful replies both here and in email. But this is
: kinda silly. How many roomates do you know who will stand for having a
: frying pan stolen? What I'm going to do is ask them to be careful (which
: they already are) and have them run the fan that vents to outside. Both
: these things are practical.
: Stealing a pan is not.
Sara,
I take it then a cast iron skillet is too much to handle for the coeds?
Just wondering. If it is, I'll know better next time not to suggest
such a complete and healthy answer.
Rolling my eyes, Adam
Shannon Larkin
>
> *rolls eyes*
> Well some people have really obviously given my questin some thought, and
> thanks for all the useful replies both here and in email. But this is
> kinda silly. How many roomates do you know who will stand for having a
> frying pan stolen? What I'm going to do is ask them to be careful (which
> they already are) and have them run the fan that vents to outside. Both
> these things are practical.
> Stealing a pan is not.
I've had many roommates in many years, and i've never had to "steal" away a
teflon pan. Once I described toxic fumes, all of my roomates were more than
willing to give up their teflon in favor of cast iron or Le Creuset.
Many people, when informed of how dangerous PFTE is to birds, will
extrapolate that it's not terribly safe for anybody, and be happy to throw
away their Teflon. Just my $.02 worth.
-Shannon and Birdy
Sara Mullahy
Adam:
I am going to broach the subject of a cast iron skillet...I have doubts
about how my roomates will feel about this. It wasn't the cast iron
skillet portion of the suggestion i was against...it was the "steal the
pan" idea. My roomates already think I'm waaaaaaay too protective of
Sophie as it is. I'm really going to have to sit them down again, but as i
said before, this may not be practical.
Second:
In general (and this is not to Adam but everyone) I am beginning to
wonder how much of this is really just hysteria and how much is actual
fact. It is getting to the point that I think that it is not safe to
have teflon anywhere in the area around the bird. Does this mean I tell
my neighbors that they can't cook with teflon either? What about the
next house over? I mean they contribute to the air around my house too. I
think a talk to an avain vet at UCD Vet school may be in order.
Thanks again to everyone who made helpful suggestions and who let me know
how they are handling this problem/transition.
No kudos for the "if you bird dies it is all your fault" responses, I
thought newgroups like this were for help and support, not
criticism. I would do anything to keep my bird safe, that doesn't mean
the rest of the world shares my views, however.
Oh and Adam, I think all of us here at Davis are capable of handling
whatever you see fit to "dish" out.
SARA
Adam Sundor (sund...@assets.wharton.upenn.edu)
(my original post cut)
:
: Sara,
: I take it then a cast iron skillet is too much to handle for the coeds?
: Just wondering. If it is, I'll know better next time not to suggest
: such a complete and healthy answer.
: Rolling my eyes, Adam
--
Adam Sundor
: First:
: Adam:
: I am going to broach the subject of a cast iron skillet...I have doubts
: about how my roomates will feel about this. It wasn't the cast iron
: skillet portion of the suggestion i was against...it was the "steal the
: pan" idea. My roomates already think I'm waaaaaaay too protective of
: Sophie as it is. I'm really going to have to sit them down again, but as i
: said before, this may not be practical.
that you are over-protective? Birds have sensitive lungs, tell them again
about the canary in the mines to warn of methane gas. The canary would die
and then the miners would be warned. Also, cast iron and iron for women
and acidic/tomatoes is also practical, especially as people age. This is not
practical for men since they may get too much iron this way.
: Second:
: In general (and this is not to Adam but everyone) I am beginning to
: wonder how much of this is really just hysteria and how much is actual
: fact. It is getting to the point that I think that it is not safe to
: have teflon anywhere in the area around the bird. Does this mean I tell
: my neighbors that they can't cook with teflon either? What about the
: next house over? I mean they contribute to the air around my house too. I
: think a talk to an avain vet at UCD Vet school may be in order.
Hysterical, me? There ^^^^ are probably many a "vain" vet but there
might be someone who knows about birds and teflon. Maybe not. I based my
decision not just on the birds, _but_ upon reading the properties of
teflon while being heated. If you have a chance, read up on teflon in the
school's library. Does anyone know about the long terms effects of teflon
to birds or people? I'm not sure. But Dupont and Monsanto, FWIW, have a
history of releasing products that decades later the harsh truth comes
out. Nylon is a safe product, probably because it's not ingested, not
sure at all about something that beaucoup decomposes at stove-top
temperatures. I have enough particles of awful stuff in my lungs as it
is, why add to the menagerie?
: Thanks again to everyone who made helpful suggestions and who let me know
: how they are handling this problem/transition.
: No kudos for the "if you bird dies it is all your fault" responses, I
: thought newgroups like this were for help and support, not
: criticism. I would do anything to keep my bird safe, that doesn't mean
: the rest of the world shares my views, however.
I did not say the above nor did I criticize you before. After you
criticized the replies, then I asked what's so hard to handle about a
cast iron skillet. I still don't understand your objection here. If they
don't use the teflon pan that much, who cares about a cast iron one?
Solves the problem and just zero error or death here. If they would object
to this, then do they really understand how delicate the lungs of birds
are?
:Oh and Adam, I think all of us here at Davis are capable of handling
:whatever you see fit to "dish" out.
Fine, well let's start with some facts. I asked this the first time
around. What type of bird, what are the dimensions of the apartment,
exhaust properties, HVAC specifications... it's very difficult to give an
exhaustive, intelligent answer without knowing the data. Can only make a
supersafe hypothesis since don't know the details. Measure your
apartment, the air flows, take the teflon pot to a scientist, ask for a
breakdown according to temperature, compare that with what's in the bird
literature. That's not doable, is it? So a really detailed answer is not
possible without a lot of work. The general rule for death appears to be
that birds die around 500+ Fahrenheit, and some birds before, but all
birds once it starts climbing in the 500's. This rule changes depending
on the age and quality of the teflon and the coating process. A cheap
pot, and the death may come much quicker than an expensive designer
teflon pan. Is yours new and fresh looking or has it started to chip or
look deteriorated? How quickly can the pan be heated to 500? That I
don't know but is not too hard to determine. I would say, what,
depending on height of flame and size of pan, around 2 minutes?
How to test this? Obviously can't do this with the bird in your
apartment. But if you are curious, take the pan to someone else's
apartment that has the same type of stove you do. Turn the flame up as
high as on your own stove. Put an all metal oven thermometer or any metal
type in the pan. It's fast if my memory serves me correctly. If you or
your roomies are into science, this can all be fun. If you're all into
marketing and want to work for Dupont, you may not want to know!
There are of course no long term studies on teflon and birds, probably
none on people and teflon, come to think of it. Anybody out there
know?
The situation just from the people's point of view sounds as though
there's some room for error. If you or your roomies want a
show-me-I'm-from-Missouri then that's life too. I was skeptical until I
did my homework and found too many personal horror stories and then read
the actual chemical data which is really foul. It just seems
that if your roomies already think you are over-protective*, then can you
guarantee they will never have a visitor who will never when you are
sleeping, overheat the teflon pan for a snack and not turn on the exhaust
because they did not want to wake someone up?
Adam Sundor
*PS Why do they think you are over-protective? Do they speak from experience
as keepers of birds? If not, what is their basis for knowledge?
Are they science majors?
Botnik
my home planet, ez04...@boris.ucdavis.edu (Sara Mullahy) wrote:
> portion of the suggestion i was against...it was the "steal the
> pan" idea. My roomates already think I'm waaaaaaay too protective
Tell your roommates you're taking the pan away, and replacing it
with "this here better pan." If required, replace their PTFE pan
with a much better one.
By replacing the PTFE pan you're not only being waaaaaaaay too
overprotective of your bird (I disagree with your roommates'
assessment of how protective you should be of your bird), but
you're also protecting yourself and anyone else in the building.
> wonder how much of this is really just hysteria and how much is
See below. I have appended a SHORT, PARTIAL, oh so very partial
list of references. Also, James Holcombe has posted a two-part
article into the newsgroup. "Teflon" is in the subject line; use
that as a search string.
> No kudos for the "if you bird dies it is all your fault"
> responses, I thought newgroups like this were for help and
> support, not criticism. I would do anything to keep my bird
> safe, that doesn't mean the rest of the world shares my views,
> however.
See my other article to Georgia McGrath. Nobody is forced to
share views with anyone else, but you asked for views and you got
them. Stop complaining. If you are allowing birds to be
"risked" then you're not going to get "help and support" (from
me, anyway). A newsgroup full of help and support, but without
constructive criticism, is useless. In this thread, nobody has
flamed anyone else, or even argued with anyone else. All I've
personally said is to get rid of the PTFE.
--------- begin appendage
From: fzca...@chip.ucdavis.edu (Laura Campbell)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.birds
Subject: Re: Teflon Pans
Date: 29 Dec 1995 12:01:59 GMT
Organization: University of California, Davis
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <4c0lbn$f...@mark.ucdavis.edu>
References: <4c0hoi$q...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: chip.ucdavis.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
[ ... ]
To quote from The Parrot in Health and Illness:
When PTFE [that non-stick coating sometimes called teflon] is heated
above 280C (530F), it breaks down and emits toxic fumes. Examples of
normal cooking temperatures are: water boils at 100C (212F). Deep
frying occurs at 210C (410F). When a nonstick cooking utensil is left
empty on a high flame, it quickly reaches 400C (750F). An extreme hazard to
birds are PTFE-coated drip pans. *Even with normal use, they rapidly
reach unsafe temperature.* Tests have shown that when a burner is turned
to high setting for five minutes, the drip pan reaches a temperature of
684.5F, with a range of 620 to 745F. All bird owners have a
responsibility to see that their homes are free of PTFE in any form.
p. 215.
Concern for myself, as well of my birds was addressed during an earlier
thread. They've shown that some iron pots leache iron into food,
particularly
when the food is acid, so people who use cast iron pots are getting a
higher share of iron--probably a good supplement, in reasonable amounts.
The coating on non-stick pans, as someone pointed out, wears out. Where
does the coating go? At least some of the non-stick stuff goes into the
food. Am not so sure that's good for us. Some of it burnt off over
time. Not so go either.
Buy good quality cookware, sans non-stick coating and you will find that
their surfaces are made to clean up easily on their own.
It's ultimately your choice. You could always do what my mother did.
Garlic and cabbage food was cooked on a burner (hot plate) in the
garage. Eventually that was the only place a teflan pan was used--mostly
for eggs. If you really Must cook with teflan, do those parts of the
meal outside.--
Laura
*********************************************************************
This message what this message is is.
lecam...@ucdavis.edu
[ I eat a lot of frozen foods and the packaging for those foods
says to use temperatures of about 230 C. KC ]
From patg...@pobox.upenn.edu Tue May 10 15:31:55 PDT 1994
Article: 11379 of rec.pets.birds
From: patg...@pobox.upenn.edu (Patricia L. Green)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.birds
Subject: Re: Teflon frying pans and parrots
Date: 10 May 1994 14:04:10 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <2qo48q$e...@netnews.upenn.edu>
References: <2qnqot$i...@rcsuna.gmr.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pobox.upenn.edu
I was able to come up with some references on this subject, if
anyone has any doubts and wonders if it can happen to your bird:
Temple, WA et al, "Poly fume fever-two fatal cases. (Poisoning
of psittaciformes by fumes from heated teflon saucepans)"
Australian Veterinary Practitioner, 1985, 15(2):66 (7
references).
Stoltz, JH, et al, "Sudden death in ten psittacine birds
associated with the operation of a self-cleaning oven".
Veterinary and Human Toxicology, 1992, 34(5):420-421 (6
references).
Wells, RE. "Fatal toxicosis in pet birds caused by an overheated
cooking pan lined with polytetrafluoroethylene." Journal of the
American Veterinary Medical Association, June 1, 1983,
182(11):1248-50.
Wells, RE, et al, "Acute toxicosis of budgerigars (Melopsittacus
undulatus) caused by pyrolysis products from heated
polytetrafluoroethylene: a clinical study". American Journal of
Veterinary Research, July, 1982, 43(7):1238-42.
Griffith, FD, et al, "Exposure of Japanese quail and parakeets to
the pyrolysis products of fry pans coated with Teflon and common
cooking oils". Amer. Industrial Hyg. Assoc. Journal, April,
1973, 34(4):176-8.
Ehrsam, H. "Fatal poisoning of small pet birds following
accidental overheating of cooking pans lined with
polytetrafluorethylene". Schweiz Arch. Tierheilkd (Switzerland)
April, 1969, 111(4):181-6.
I am sure there are even more articles on this subject; this was
a quick search and represents what I came up with easily. These
are all published in well-known scientific and/or veterinary
journals.
Also, I would like to add that I believe most of the companies
that manufacture the cookware with these potentially toxic
coatings include a warning in the packaging stating that use of
their pans may be toxic to pet birds. I know that I knew about
it BEFORE I ever had a bird because when I bought a set of pans
with silverstone coating the literature that came with it
specifically pointed this out. At the time, it wasn't relevant
to my situation, but I remember being surprised by itlater when I
got a bird it quickly came to mind. If you have any doubts, call
the company and I beleive they will verify that the fumes can be
toxic. Or better yet, just stay on the safe side and don't use
these products around your birds.
Hope this is helpful
From je...@u.washington.edu Wed May 11 08:46:03 PDT 1994
Article: 11398 of rec.pets.birds
From: je...@u.washington.edu (Jeff Parke)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.birds
Subject: Re: Teflon frying pans and parrots
Date: 11 May 1994 01:12:00 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <2qpbd0$n...@news.u.washington.edu>
References: <1994May9.1...@rzu-news.unizh.ch>
NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu
In article <1994May9.1...@rzu-news.unizh.ch>,
Hr Dr. S. Shapiro <tou...@zui.unizh.ch> wrote:
> My wife has just about had it with (i) an orange-winged Amazon who
>screeches incessantly whilst we try to eat until we bribe him with some
>morsel to keep his Schnabel shut, and (ii) my not letting her use frying
>pans and other cookware coated with Teflon and similar non-stick materials
>because I once heard that heating such cookware results in the volatilisa-
>tion of trace amounts of substances that are highly toxic to psitticines.
>If anyone out there is familiar with this and can send me AUTHORITATIVE
>information (and possibly references/citations) I would be most grateful.
p 1047 in Avian Medicine: Principles & Application by Ritchie,
Harrison and Harrison: " Polytetrafluoroethylene gas, released
when various non-stick surfacesoverheatis a common respiratory
toxin in birds. As these surfaces are heated to above 530
degrees F (280 C), they undergo pyrolysis and PTFE is degraded
releasing irritant particles and acidic gases"
--------- end appendage
The last time I went to a library to look for information on
something, I asked the librarians for help. They gave me a CDROM
and sat me down in front of a computer, and showed me how to use
it. The computer ran some sort of database program, and it
looked at the CDROM and spit out a humungous list of references,
that I was able to print out, and then I just walked around the
library looking for stuff. So, I'd assume anyone could walk into
a library and find references on PTFE outgassing like the ones
listed above.
Kevin
--
Kevin Chu
kev...@wimsey.ca
Botnik
my home planet, Georgia McGrath <mcgr...@cris.com> wrote:
> I have 2 parakeets that live in the kitchen, with their cage
> hung from the ceiling within 6 feet of the stove. Almost all of
> my frying pans, and many of my pots, have teflon linings. The
> birds have been there for several years, before I'd heard of the
> teflon problem. We got a parrotlet about a year ago, and that
> was when we learned of the teflon danger.
I'll assume you know that it is against general advice to 1) keep
your birds in/around the kitchen when anything is being cooked,
and 2) to have/use PTFE-coated cookware, whether or not birds are
involved. I'll also assume anyone reading this article has at
least glanced over the FAQs for this newsgroup. With those
assumptions, it is your choice to continue what you are doing --
you are the one looking after your birds. With those
assumptions, don't expect many people to approve of what you are
doing. You don't need any of anyone's approvals to do anything,
but one of the implied functions of this newsgroup is to pass
advice from well-meaning bird owners to those seeking advice. In
this case, the advice has been given. What you do with the
advice is up to you.
> One time about a year ago we were using a frying pan and one of
> the parakeets fell off his perch. (This isn't that unusual, he's
> a real klutz, but he didn't look good - seemed a bit
> disoriented.) He recovered in a couple of minutes; by then we
> were finished cooking, and I turned on the kitchen fan. Since
> that time, I've always used the kitchen fan when I'm using
> teflon, but we've never had any more parakeet incidents. We do
Are you suggesting the PTFE outgassing temporarily disabled your
bird? Do you think this is serious? Would you risk it again?
The issue of stealing the roommate's pan is addressed in another
article.
Sara Mullahy
Thanks for the list of references..off to the library i go :)
SARA
Botnik
my home planet, sund...@assets.wharton.upenn.edu (Adam Sundor) wrote:
> How to test this? Obviously can't do this with the bird in
> your apartment. But if you are curious, take the pan to someone
> else's apartment that has the same type of stove you do. Turn
> the flame up as high as on your own stove. Put an all metal oven
> thermometer or any metal type in the pan. It's fast if my memory
> serves me correctly. If you or your roomies are into science,
> this can all be fun. If you're all into marketing and want to
> work for Dupont, you may not want to know!
Neat experiment, but I think it's been done (by the
manufacturers), and if someone is really going to do this
experiment, I wouldn't want to be around when it's done. :)
Your above sentence should read, "obviously, can't do this with
any non-expendable living being in your apartment." Anyone have
any expendable living beings? I don't.
Adam Sundor
Okay, okay, use a pan similar to a teflon pan but uncoated. That's what
I did some time ago. Had to, had thrown away my teflon pan many moons ago,
after reading in Consumer Reports that it's safe for humans, just kills
birds. Well, if it's not good enough for them... It's startling how fast
the temperature goes up. Noticed you had the refs laying around for
teflon; that's quite nice of you to post them. The article that gave the
chemical breakdown once posted here would also have been good. Haven't
looked for that but it spelled out the chemical gassing and particle
spewing which alarmed me when I read that. Quite depressing.
Okay, found something about this, so will do my ref bit for this.
Picked the following up from a web site:
By Jay Beckerman
Reprinted from the San Diego Bird Breeders Journal
Reprinted from the Greater Brandon Avian Society
Originally appeared In Parrot World, December 1993
Mac was a much loved Blue and Gold Macaw who made life a daily joy
(paraphrased from "fife a daily My" - garbled from the net)
for her owner, NPA member Terrie Milligan, of Canyon Country, California.
Mac was actually a "she" but had been named before Terrie learned her true
sex. I said Mac was a much loved bird because she isn't alive anymore.
She died a horrible death gasping for air in a desperate attempt to hold
on to life. The necropsy report confirmed Teflon toxicosis as the cause of
death. Mac would have been two years old. Terrie's other love, a
Cockatiel named Piccolo expired shortly thereafter, a victim of the same
poisoning.
"The culprit was an innocent looking 9" x 12" Teflon-coated baking pan
manufactured by the Mirro Company of Manitowac, Wisconsin. There was no
smoke, no detectable fumes, no burning odor. Terrie's birds just went into
convulsions and death followed shortly thereafter."
Adam S.: If the above article is accurate, then this is pretty deadly stuff
and wonder about long-term effects on either humans or birds. Would
suspect that pans, etc., not manufactured to the highest standards (cheap
stuff) might release teflon earlier than thought? Aging might prepare
for early release also. Doubt whether teflon is good for any lungs. Do
I want non-stick lungs? Would like for oxygen to adhere. Better
quit now. Never know when might have to apply for a job at Dupont :(
chief teflon tester they would make me.
Botnik (kev...@wimsey.ca) wrote:
: In article <4ke84t$i...@netnews.upenn.edu> that I received on
Dan Reynolds
: In general (and this is not to Adam but everyone) I am beginning to
: fact.
I understand this, but how much of a risk are you willing to take? I do
not have much of a background in chemistry, but there is no way in hell I
would risk exposing my bird to these fumes under any circumstances. Not
to judge but it is considered an established fact that the fumes released
from overheated teflon are FATAL to birds. Just like cigarette smoking-
actions have consequences.
: Thanks again to everyone who made helpful suggestions and who let me know
: how they are handling this problem/transition.
: No kudos for the "if you bird dies it is all your fault" responses, I
: thought newgroups like this were for help and support, not
: criticism. I would do anything to keep my bird safe, that doesn't mean
: the rest of the world shares my views, however.
I hear you, but remember, please, that most of us value birds a great
deal more than most folks. I don't know if you were around for the VERY
interesting (and heated)debate about how many hundreds or thousands of
dollars one would spend on a sick budgie. It opened my mind, I'll say.
More than one of my former roomies have damn near burned down the house
(but us Sonoma Staters used to REALLY party) so, while I'm SURE that your
roomies are more responsible than mine were, the thing that scared many
of us here is that your bird is in a situation where she could be
jepordized by the actions of people less committed to her than you are!
Many of us 'bird people' are less than trustful of 'non bird' people....
sorry to ramble on so....
c-ya
: SARA
: Adam Sundor (sund...@assets.wharton.upenn.edu)
: (my original post cut)
: :
: : Sara,
: : I take it then a cast iron skillet is too much to handle for the coeds?
: : Just wondering. If it is, I'll know better next time not to suggest
: : such a complete and healthy answer.
: : Rolling my eyes, Adam
: --
Sara Mullahy
house. I decided that since two of the teflon pans were mine that I
didn't care what my roomates thought, that i was just goig to go out and
repalce them. Well, I replaced the regular frying pan with a cast iron
skillet.....and I'm in the process of attempting to find a non-stick wok
to replace my teflon coated one.....trust me this is harder than you
would think. Once these are gone all that are left is the huge frying
pan that i think has been used once in the two years we have been living
here, and my roomate's electric skillet that has a temperature control
on it. I've made my roomates swear that they will run the fan if they
use either of these pans (unlikely).
The cast iron skillet has not been greeted with the greatest of warmth.
In fact upturned noses are th emost common reaction to it. I've been
called crazy by a great number of people, and have been told that I"m
overreacting by many more, but I think my roomates have decided to go
along with it just to make me happy. But if i get one more "oh i'm off
to go and burn some teflon and kill your bird" comment as they make their
way to the kitchen, screaming may occur.
Has anyone else had problems dealing with their roomates on subjects
like this?
Well I'm not backing down, my parents have already said I can have their
wok if i can't find one of my own.
Wish me luck on convincing people i'm not crazy :)
SARA
Laura Campbell
: Sara Mullahy (ez04...@boris.ucdavis.edu) wrote:
: : In general (and this is not to Adam but everyone) I am beginning to
: : wonder how much of this is really just hysteria and how much is actual
: : fact.
: I understand this, but how much of a risk are you willing to take? I do
: not have much of a background in chemistry, but there is no way in hell I
: would risk exposing my bird to these fumes under any circumstances. Not
: to judge but it is considered an established fact that the fumes released
: from overheated teflon are FATAL to birds. Just like cigarette smoking-
: actions have consequences.
I remember last year a posting from someone who used a self-cleaning oven and her
birds *upstairs* died (teflon oven lining). I don't think that much of this worry
is *hysteria.* Dan is correct: it is an established fact that teflan can
kill birds.
It might not have killed in every household. A lot depends on 1) how hot the
teflan got; 2) how old the teflan is, 3) air currents within the household.
Laura C.
*********************************************************************
This message what this message is is.
Adam Sundor
Long time no talk but since you asked:
Ah teflon, that slippery stuff again.
About non-stick woks. Gave a friend a Faberware ? electric stainless
steel wok so ... Consumer Reports rated it very highly. I wouldn't
go that far, but there seems to be little competition.
About non-stick,
1. it's been suggested to use only wooden utensils on the steel pans
2. also, the spray on oils, or
found that coating the wok, with very, very
small amounts of oil, using wooden utensils, and watching the temp will
make it non-stick. the electric is easier for controlling the temp
but it's more expensive.
3. since the cast iron was such a big hit, should i mention that
there are cast iron woks? treat them just like cast iron skillets.
far less expensive than the above electric wok. harder to find but
they do exist. it's what they use in china, yes?
delighted you were able to make the situation more teflon free.
thought you had only one pan, but several are harder to track, so
this seems the safest route to take. am a little surprised that
you have to convince your roomies - which is a good reason... AS
amy
Adam Sundor <sund...@assets.wharton.upenn.edu> wrote:
>Hi Sara,
>Long time no talk but since you asked:
>Ah teflon, that slippery stuff again.
>
>About non-stick woks. Gave a friend a Faberware ? electric stainless
>steel wok so ... Consumer Reports rated it very highly. I wouldn't
>go that far, but there seems to be little competition.
>
>About non-stick,
>1. it's been suggested to use only wooden utensils on the steel pans
>2. also, the spray on oils, or
>found that coating the wok, with very, very
>small amounts of oil, using wooden utensils, and watching the temp will
>make it non-stick. the electric is easier for controlling the temp
>but it's more expensive.
The electric also has a teflon coating (at least all that I've seen).
A properly seasoned wok should naturally be non-stick.
amy
Adam Sundor
: In article <4l4lu0$2...@netnews.upenn.edu>,
: amy
The wok I was referring to or trying to is just stainless steel
without any non-stick or teflon coating. Don't often see this
as the less expensive ones have the dark/black teflon coating of some
sort. The pure stainless steel are shiny and reflect light
as any ordinary shiny stainless steel metal would.
The cast iron ones are also do not have any teflon coating. These
are even more rare than the pure stainless steel ones, at least
around here, but I have seen them at times. The cast iron are
gray, very dark gray in appearance and are not shiny and not reflective.
I don't think I have seen a "non-stick" coating, cooking whatever
that was also not a form of teflon. Is this so?
Pure stainless steel or iron, when handled properly, will function
as a non-stick/teflon coated pot or pan. By "properly," the use
of wooden utensils, seasoning the iron, lightly coating the
stainless steel... is this not also so? Metal utensils, stirrers,
spatulas, spoons, compromise the non-stickiness of pure stainless
steel or cast iron. They penetrate to the bare metal where the
wood leaves it greatly intact with its light coating of oil.
High heat also compromises the non-stickiness of cast iron or
stainless steel, from my limited cooking experience.
AS