Budgerigar defined
High Fright
The word budgerigar litterally means: Good eating.
Dan Spencer
You must have something better to do to fill in the time between
Professional Wrestling and Monster Trucks. I think that Mommy and Daddy
need to hide the WebTV remote control from you when they go out for the
evening. I know that a intelligent, well balanced adult would have better
things to do with their time.
Dan
High Fright <Weeni...@webtv.net> wrote in article
<5ud34h$ai$1...@newsd-111.bryant.webtv.net>...
Sharon Fontayne
Dan,
You may not like it but Weenie1000 is correct. The word budgeriger (sp)
means exactly what he said it does. Remember that in Australia (where
budgies, cockatiels and cockatoos come from) these birds are usually
more of a nuisance than anything else. Several years ago I personally
witnessed a farmer who had netted a dozen or so cockatoos, smashing
there heads (very gruesome) with the butt of his shotgun. It made me
ill but if I had seen an american farmer doing this to some crows it
wouldn't have hit me so hard.
Don't get on his case because he took the time to post this information.
Afterall you took the time to respond to it. That says more about you
than his post says about him.
Shar
Dan Spencer
Shar,
I stand corrected about the meaning of budgerigar, I seem to remember now
that you have reminded me.
However, in conjunction with his other postings, it's clear what his true
intent was. You probably have already figured out that this person is
posting under a false name in an attempt to parody a regular contributor to
this newsgroup. I also feel that this person is responsible for other
similar postings made under different names, as well as harrassing another
regular here by email. The "webtv" in the email address is a dead giveaway
every time.
*ENOUGH OF THAT*
Welcome to the newsgroup!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dan
Sharon Fontayne <attkmar...@webtv.net> wrote in article
<5ufccq$bfd$1...@newsd-113.bryant.webtv.net>...
WH LAMBDIN
In article <5ufccq$bfd$1...@newsd-113.bryant.webtv.net>,
attkmar...@webtv.net (Sharon Fontayne) writes:
>You may not like it but Weenie1000 is correct. The word budgeriger (sp)
>means exactly what he said it does. Remember that in Australia (where
>budgies, cockatiels and cockatoos come from) these birds are usually
>more of a nuisance than anything else. Several years ago I personally
>witnessed a farmer who had netted a dozen or so cockatoos, smashing
>there heads (very gruesome) with the butt of his shotgun. It made me
>ill but if I had seen an american farmer doing this to some crows it
>wouldn't have hit me so hard.
Budgerigar is an an aborigine (SP) term, and the navive aborigines eat
budgies.
You are absolutely correct about cockatoos, budgies, cockatiels, etc are a
pest to farmers. But IMNSHO, the australian government brought this problem
on themselves. Australia will not allow caught wild birds to be exported
out of the country.
If the government allowed the naturaly occuring wild flock to be thinned,
and sold, this would do two things.
1. reduce the damage done by the wild flocks.
2. increase the income of the government.
I would react the same way no matter which species was having it's brains
bashed out.
W.H. (Bill) Lambdin
J. Yu
I'm not so about your solutions. Wildlife management is a tricky
issue. From what I've learned, the management of wildlife is a
never-ending, self-perpetuating cycle. Starting out with making
manipulations to a wild population (usually without fully understanding
the consequences) just leads to the need for more and constant
manipulation in the future.
1. We don't know the ecological impacts of removing birds permanently
from wild populations. At least in theory, removing birds just serves
to maintain the population at its log-phase, the point at which the
population grows exponentially. Remove some birds, and then you have
more newly hatched birds to take the empty niches. Perhaps by refusing
to cull the flocks, we might see of a carrying capacity for these birds
exist?
2. The Austrailian government might better spend its effort finding a
more ecologically sound compromise between farmers and wildlife. It's
not at all unreasonable to prohibit export this point.
(2a. Here in California, in order to reduce brood parasitism on some
more endangered birds species, an effort is made to trap female
brown-headed cowbirds during the breeding season, and then releasing
them afterwards. The seasonality of things is completely different in
Austrailia, so such trapping might not work, but better solutions than
culling the flocks must be possible.)
3. The export of wild birds, especially the more coveted, expensive
parrots, by itself can lead to serious problems with whether these birds
can be humanely treated as they are first caught, handed through many
middle men looking to get their greedy hands into the process, and then
transported long distances to other countries. Laws can be implemented,
but who obeys laws these days when $$$$$$$ are at stake?
Crows are just as beautiful as any bird, parrot or not. They rival, if
not surpass parrots in intelligence.
Piper's human, Jeannie
If any of you have any updates on population biology/wildlife
management, please be free to correct me.
--
My true e-mail address can be obtained by removing "_123" from the
address shown above. For usenet messages, replies to the newsgroup are
fine. Thanks!
Andrew
Can you imagine watching your child die of starvation because your crop is
being eaten by birds........I am sure there is alternatives to doing this,
but I imagine some have no other resources. I guess some folks hold human
life above animals. If you had a choice of killing a bird or your child
which choice would you make?? Try substituting the word "bird" for spider or
venomus snake (anything you dont like). Something else to think about is
what would you do if you went to the grocery store and had to pay 5 times as
much to buy food, the reason being because the area farmers crops had been
ravaged by pests. I can see some folks after awhile changing there views
about the situation. Heck, where only human just trying to be the dominate
species but in the process we are screwing ourselves. AC
WH LAMBDIN
In article <340D0D...@mail.sdsu.edu>, "J. Yu" <yuj...@mail.sdsu.edu>
writes:
>You have very good points! I wasn't aware of what practices are allowed
>in Australia, but I understand from what you're saying, farmers are
>currently allowed trap and to kill their pest birds.
I was horrified when I watched the footage. Can you imagine my shock to
watch a bunch of men beating a net full 100+ sulphur crested cockatoos to death.
One farmer said that if he were lucky he might be able to sell one or two
of the birds to people in Sydney, but if Australia would allow the export
of the birds, sh could sell all of them. He didn't like killing them, but
that was the only way to reduce the amount of damage done by the pests.
>The method of trapping one bird to use as a decoy to trap other birds is
>the same as one technique for the brown-headed cowbirds. Very
>effective! But I can almost imagine the horrific scene with these
>farmers killing a net of birds---it's very disturbing!
It wasn't something I would watch again. It made me very sick.
>It's a difficult issue, to say the least. Principles and gut-feelings
>clash considerably. In many African countries, the poaching of
>elephants for ivory is illegal. Some people might think that the ivory
>confiscated from poachers should be sold, and perhaps the profits should
>go back to financing protection. Afterall, the elephants are dead
>anyway. Kenya took the the opposite stand some time ago. They set
>torch to their stockpiles of confiscated ivory in a blaze of defiance.
>Countries like South Africa and Zimbabwe have different philosophies and
>want to sell their stocks.
Logic would say to sell the cinfiscated ivory, and use that money to
protect the remaining elephants. The poachers will go and kill more
elephants and sell the ivory illegaly. As you said the elephants are
already dead. There is no reason for them to die in vain which is what
really happened when Kenya officials made the decision to destroy the
ivory. My two cents.
>value the animals and whether we think these animals should be
>exploited. Are these animals the property of human economics? Or or
Are domesticated animals exploited?
>they off-limits to us, regardless of whether they're going to die
>anyway? Should we profit from the criminal activities of others? Or is
With the elephants. If the ivory was sold, and the money was spent to
protect the remaining elephants, the ones that profit are the elephants,
and people have jobs so they can feed their families. As I said before, the
poachers are only going to kill more elephants anyway.
>a crime, simply that, a crime?--and we shouldn't promote/condone it in
>any way?
Selling criminaly obtained ivory doesn condone the crime, The elephants
would have the protection they need. By destroying the ivory the elephants
end up in worse condition. More dead elephants, and no finances to protect
the elephants.
W.H. (Bill) Lambdin
Pythoness
In article <5ujntp$1f5$1...@insosf1.netins.net>, "Andrew"
<dayca...@ncn.net> wrote:
> Can you imagine watching your child die of starvation because your crop is
> being eaten by birds........I am sure there is alternatives to doing this,
> but I imagine some have no other resources.
This is, IMHO, the biggest problem there is in society today--the fact
that money is important beyond anything else. If a solution is expensive,
it's no solution. Children die because there isn't money for their
medical treatment. Animals are killed rather than relocated or otherwise
non-lethally deterred because it's expensive. I'm not blaming any
individuals for this, it's the system we've made for ourselves. But I
keep thinking we're going to have to revamp it eventually to survive (and
no, I don't know exactly how).
> I guess some folks hold human
> life above animals.
Yes, but some of us also have to pause and ask ourselves why we do. It's
natural for me to value my own species above others, but I don't believe,
in the grand scheme of things, we *are* more valuable. Rather the
opposite, as far as other species and biodiversity are concerned. We're
more capable of exploiting other species, and I think we should respect
this overwhelming ability of ours and try to misuse it as little as
possible.
> If you had a choice of killing a bird or your child
> which choice would you make?? Try substituting the word "bird" for spider or
> venomus snake (anything you dont like).
I don't think the issue is as clear-cut as that. Moreover, just because
something is dangerous isn't a reason to kill it--it *is* a reason to
learn how to negotiate with the danger. I'm not saying I wouldn't kill a
black widow that was in the room with me, but if I saw one out in the
woods I *would* leave it alone. I'm also firmly opposed to the so-called
cruel "rattlesnake roundups" in which thousands of rattlers are caught and
abused primarily for sport (collecting venom for antivenom is an excuse,
but for reasons I won't go into on this ng, not a good one).
When rattlers are depleted, rodent populations rise, and hantavirus
becomes a greater threat to humans. Gopher tortoises, which use abandoned
rattler burrows, are deprived of places to live. I'm just using this as
an example to show how we don't exist isolated from the rest of the
species on earth.
> Heck, where only human just trying to be the dominate
> species but in the process we are screwing ourselves. AC
I couldn't agree more there!
zg
To email me, remove antispam from my address
zi...@teleport.com
Zi...@aol.com
Ziggy Blum
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
He who has rejected his demons badgers us to death with his angels.
Henri Michaux
Tim Antler
I agree with Bill. If they could catch the birds and either send them to zoos
across the world or export them to the pet trade, it could solve their
problems. I once saw a TV documentary where a farmer would be standing in the
field and shoot the birds (galahs) out of the skies. It's horrible.
--Denise Antler
WH LAMBDIN wrote:
> In article <5ujntp$1f5$1...@insosf1.netins.net>, "Andrew"
> <dayca...@ncn.net> writes:
>
> > Can you imagine watching your child die of starvation because your crop is
> >being eaten by birds........I am sure there is alternatives to doing this,
> >but I imagine some have no other resources. I guess some folks hold human
>
> Since the birds are caught in nets, and alive and well. If the farmer
> could turn the birds over to something like fish and wildlife, that could
> be liscensed to export the birds would solve the problem.
>
> The farmers crops are not destroyed.
> the birds are not masacred.
> the money from the sale of birds could pay the salary of the officials. to
> make sure the population is not being harvested to dangerous levels.
>
> Think about it. a win-win-win situation
> W.H. (Bill) Lambdin
WH LAMBDIN
In article <340C93...@mail.sdsu.edu>, "J. Yu" <yuj...@mail.sdsu.edu>
writes:
>I'm not so about your solutions. Wildlife management is a tricky
>issue. From what I've learned, the management of wildlife is a
>never-ending, self-perpetuating cycle. Starting out with making
>manipulations to a wild population (usually without fully understanding
Since th famers aew allowed to trap them with nets, and kill them,
shouldn't the farmers be allowed to sell the ones they capture instead of
commiting mass murder.
W.H. (Bill) Lambdin
WH LAMBDIN
>3. The export of wild birds, especially the more coveted, expensive
>parrots, by itself can lead to serious problems with whether these birds
>can be humanely treated as they are first caught, handed through many
>middle men looking to get their greedy hands into the process, and then
>transported long distances to other countries. Laws can be implemented,
Then you have never seen the way the birds are disposed of then.
The farmer traps one bird, and stakes it out in the middle of a large net.
The other birds fly down to check on the trapped bird, The net is gathered
up quickly, and everything trapped in the net gets beaten to death.
If the farmer could turn over the caught birds to something like Fish and
Wildlife in the US, and this branch of the government could pay the farmer
a nominal fee per bird for his time and efforts. This department could be
liscensed to export the birds to areas of the world that want them. I would
be happy to adopt several feathered friends instead of having them beaten
to death. This is criminal activity IMHO.
W.H. (Bill) Lambdin
Thomas Ryan
I agree about the ivory. I think it is disrespectful, wasteful, and
somewhat of a sin to burn the ivory.
I don't know much about clubbing parakeets, but it strikes me as
abusive, plain and simple. You know even the slaughtering of animals
for food stuff is required to be done humanely. ,Sue
WH LAMBDIN wrote:
> In article <340D0D...@mail.sdsu.edu>, "J. Yu"
> <yuj...@mail.sdsu.edu>
WBYWFM90
Bill....
I agree with you wholeheartedly.
Whenever man starts to fiddle around with the wild species of a local
population of animal/bird, etc then man is in danger.
CITE: Australia never had rabbits before white man came andbrought them.
The rabbits escaped and now inhabit a huge are of Australia.
There are others...I am just too tired to type them right now....
Peace....
Al
Richard Murray
In article <19970903170...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, whla...@aol.com (WH LAMBDIN) wrote:
>In article <5ujntp$1f5$1...@insosf1.netins.net>, "Andrew"
><dayca...@ncn.net> writes:
>
>> Can you imagine watching your child die of starvation because your crop is
>>being eaten by birds........I am sure there is alternatives to doing this,
>>but I imagine some have no other resources. I guess some folks hold human
>
>Since the birds are caught in nets, and alive and well. If the farmer
>could turn the birds over to something like fish and wildlife, that could
>be liscensed to export the birds would solve the problem.
>
>The farmers crops are not destroyed.
>the birds are not masacred.
>the money from the sale of birds could pay the salary of the officials. to
>make sure the population is not being harvested to dangerous levels.
>
>Think about it. a win-win-win situation
>W.H. (Bill) Lambdin
Bill,
As an Australian I thought I might bring up a couple of points.
As far as I am aware ALL Australian native birds are protected by federal law.
I would think that any farmer caught trapping and killing native birds would
be prosecuted. [ this is not to say that farmers don't participate in this
grewsome pastime ]
Parrots are often blamed for crop destruction that they don't do.
This does not mean that I disagree on your point about exporting parrots from
Australia. I think that exportation of parrots would have the two-fold effect
of lowering the prices of these birds overseas, and putting to an end the
extremely cruel way that birds are smuggled out now.
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
Richard Murray (r.mu...@qut.edu.au)
Queensland University of Technology
Brisbane, Australia
Pythoness
In article <5uvp26$m...@dove.qut.edu.au>, r.mu...@xqut.edu.au (Richard
Murray) wrote:
>
> Parrots are often blamed for crop destruction that they don't do.
>
Oh dear. I imagine this may well be altogether too true. I'm thinking
about the times that wildlife officials have "culled" natural predators
because the prey has actually been depleted by human hunters (wolves in
Alaska, sea lions off the Western coast, etc).
Vicki C.
Hi all,
Just for the heck of it and I am curious about the Kia's in New Zealand.
I recently watched a PBS show which included showing the behaviour of
Kia's. It seems these parrots<?> are very destructive. Watched them
destroy the rubber on a car parked by a skier in New Zealand. Also my
boyfriend was saying he watched something on TV about how a Kia could
inflict a wound severe enough to kill a sheep. Anyone else happen to see
this on TV. It seems to me that these parrots are very intelligent
creatures. Perhaps someone with some knowledge would care to satisfy my
curiousity on this bird. Just wondering if any have been kept as pets?,
but I would think they are protected because of the destruction wrought
on their natural environment by 20 century man and his pets.
Vicki C.
J.Y.
I also saw this show on PBS also. Beyond the show, I don't know
anything about kias. Knowing more is probably worth a trip to the
library.
As an aside comment, I always find it surprising to discover how
sinister the cutest of animals really are. We think of the adorable
animals as snuggly, full of wide-eyed innocence, and surviving
peacefully and harmoniously on a diet of plant products. In fact, they
are aggressive and merciless. Kias can kill sheep. I've read of "cute"
squirrels attacking young sparrows and eating their brains. Many birds
that aren't considered carnivorous or predatory eat the eggs and
hatchlings of other birds.
I wonder to what degree do parrots prey on the young of other birds
(parrots or non-psittacines) or on other more meaty food types...?
Jeannie
--
Piper's human.
% symbols do not belong in my valid e-mail address. My Usenet messages
do not require a private reply.
Scott Lewis
On Tue, 09 Sep 1997 04:49:10 -0400, "Vicki C."
<"wild...@concentric.net"@pop3.concentric.net> wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>Just for the heck of it and I am curious about the Kia's in New Zealand.
Here are my Kea links:
http://www.kiwihome.co.nz/magazine/NZGeographic/Encounters_with_Kea.html#Top
http://wwwedu.cs.utwente.nl/~kea/
http://www.sisna.com/users/billveach/photo\kea.jpg
http://www.kiwihome.co.nz/magazine/NZGeographic/Kea-The_feisty_parrot.html
http://nz.com/NZ/Commerce/clanztours/nztours_tourprograms.html
http://www.aboveall.com/nz/NZX25A.html
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~collberg/Birds/index.html
Regards,
Scott
===================================================================
Scott & Linda Lewis mailto:sle...@OldWorldAviaries.com
Old World Aviaries, Austin TX phone: 512/928-1200
Hand-fed, fully weaned babies Roudybush distributor
Now available: Capes, Senegals, Eclectus, Jardines
===================================================================
Vicki C.
Scott
Thanks for the book marks! Think I will do a little research on them to
satisfy my curiousity!
Vicki C.
kerf...@vsdec.npt.nuwc.navy.mil
> Just for the heck of it and I am curious about the Kia's in New Zealand.
> I recently watched a PBS show which included showing the behaviour of
> Kia's. It seems these parrots<?> are very destructive. Watched them
> destroy the rubber on a car parked by a skier in New Zealand. Also my
> boyfriend was saying he watched something on TV about how a Kia could
> inflict a wound severe enough to kill a sheep. Anyone else happen to see
> this on TV. It seems to me that these parrots are very intelligent
> creatures. Perhaps someone with some knowledge would care to satisfy my
> curiousity on this bird. Just wondering if any have been kept as pets?,
> but I would think they are protected because of the destruction wrought
> on their natural environment by 20 century man and his pets.
The best source of information I have found on Keas is an old book, 1920
or so, called "The Kea: A New Zealand Problem" or something like that.
They have a bunch of photographs of mutilated sheep, which are attributed
to Kea attacks. The general mode of attack was to sit on the sheep's
pelvis, and peck at the fat on its kidneys.
He mentions several Keas being kept as pets. They were rambunctious, but
generally popular with their owners. They seem to have destroyed a lot of
stuff when they were allowed to run free in the house.
There are a few Keas in the US. Someone in New York has an ad in Bird
Talk for them. I have never spoken to them, but someone posted here a
while ago, saying that the cost was roughly $7,000/bird. For the
immediately foreseeable future, all of them in captivity will be needed
for breeding stock to get the species established in aviculture, although
it is not at all certain that it will work.
Ian Kerfoot
The Banyan Tree Homepage
http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Vines/4287/
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Jenny Christianson
In article <5v32tc$e...@examiner.concentric.net>, wild...@concentric.net wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>Just for the heck of it and I am curious about the Kia's in New Zealand.
>I recently watched a PBS show which included showing the behaviour of
>Kia's. It seems these parrots<?> are very destructive. Watched them
>destroy the rubber on a car parked by a skier in New Zealand. Also my
>boyfriend was saying he watched something on TV about how a Kia could
>inflict a wound severe enough to kill a sheep. Anyone else happen to see
>this on TV. It seems to me that these parrots are very intelligent
>creatures. Perhaps someone with some knowledge would care to satisfy my
>curiousity on this bird. Just wondering if any have been kept as pets?,
>but I would think they are protected because of the destruction wrought
>on their natural environment by 20 century man and his pets.
>Vicki C.
Hello Vicki,
I live in NZ and also enjoy hearing about and seeing keas on TV. I
would love to see them but they only live in bush (native forest) areas,
not near this city. Unfortunately we usually only hear of them being found
dead after smuggling attempts at export. I hate to hear of these beautiful
big characterful birds being captive and feel horrified at the thought of
them as pets, bred in captivity or otherwise. Yes, their native habitat is
endangered but we have a democracy and a vote and hopefully attitudes will
change and bushfelling stop
soon. My feelings, which are just that, make me wonder how natives of
South America etc feel about their birds being kept overseas as pets. I
have two cockatiels, (whom I love but would rather see free in their native
country if I could..they wouldn't survive here and would further endanger
our own native birds) Best wishes, Jenny C.but they would have had a life
in probably an even smaller cage if I didn't buy them) . As keas are not
established as pets, please consider them as a wild animal superbly adapted
by nature to their native forests, and come and visit NZ one day for a tour
of their beautiful environment. Hire a car and go ski-ing...and .make sure
your hire insurance covers kea damage!
Best wishes, Jenny C.
Vicki C.
Jenny thanks for taking the time to reply :) Actually I don't want a Kea
as a pet, <I see i misspelled it the first time> I was just curious as
to weather they had been kept as pets. Someone else posted some
wonderful web sites and I had a chance to bone up on some history of
this parrot. Since it is very intelligent I wondered if they were ever
kept with a human companion. And I for one fully intend on going to NZ
one day. I have always admired your country from afar and its one of
those places I want to visit. Thanks
Vicki C. <proud member of the nice brigade>