Power failures and Kerosene Heaters
Edward Ermler
-----------------------
>Sender: "CAGTAG-L For the discussion of African Grey parrots."
> <CAGT...@PLEARN.EDU.PL>
>Poster: MRS EVELYN M FITZPATRICK <KYE...@PRODIGY.COM>
>Subject: power outage
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
>
>Hi Everyone,
>On Nov.ll, the Northeast got hit with a terrible wind and rain storm.
>As usual my power went out at ll:00PM and didn't come back on till
>Monday around 1:00 pm.
>I had my birds covered with comforters but they still were cold.
>Can anyone tell me how many conforters to use or how many is too many.
>I just ordered a kerosene heater to use next time this happens.
>I was affraid to use to many and not sure how many would keep them
>warm.
>I placed all my birds in the smallest room and kept the door shut this
>seemed to be the warmest room doing it that way.
>Any help would be appreicated.
>Thanks Evelyn and Shamba
>
>
We too live in the Northeast and have faced this problem many times
over. While the kerosene heater will provide ample heat to you and
your flock, you should be extremely caref
ul of using it.
Kerosene heaters that are not vented do use considerable room oxygen
for combustion, and doing so will decrease the available oxygen in the
room or home. Carbon Monoxide, a by-product of combustion is also
produced, espe
cially if the heater is not maintained at optimum levels. Birds, due
to their relatively immature respiratory systems, compared to humans,
can not tolerate CO levels anywhere near as high as humans. At 100
parts per mil
lion, a human will barely notice that CO is present, however this level
may be lethal :-( to birds. CO exposure is a cumulative exposure level,
the levels of CO will remain in the bloodstream and elevate even though
the e
nvironmental level may not be increasing. While I am not exactly sure
of the makeup of avian blood, in humans the CO will bind far more
readily to the hemoglobin (the material responsible for carrying oxygen
throughout t
he body) than does oxygen. I would assume that this is also the case
in avian species. Normal off the shelf CO detectors do not detect or
alarm at levels under 100 PPM, and therefore the CO level in the home
or room ma
y be approaching lethal levels to our avian friends without any effects
on the human occupants. Remember that coal miners used to use canaries
to detect lethal levels of methane, CO and other gasses, when the bird
died t
hey knew it was unsafe.
If you must use a kerosene heater to provide emergency heat, here are a
few suggestions.
1. Provide adequate ventilation by opening a window, of course watch
for drafts and protect your flock from direct exposure to the draft.
2. Never leave the heater unattended. They run extremely hot, and if
tipped over by another animal or child may cause a fire. Never ever
allow the birds out when the heater is in operation. A bird
accidentally landing o
r walking into the heater will be severely injured.
3. Purchase a CO detector called Nighthawk, it is available from a mail
order company called the Safety Zone (Sorry I don't remember the 800
number) while the alarm trip point is at 100 PPM, it has a digital
display that
shows CO levels in PPM on a constant basis. Increase ventilation if
the CO level begins to rise above the normal levels found in the home
(when the heater is not running).
4. Never refuel the heater indoors, remove it to outside, wait for it
to cool then refill it.
5. Provide indirect heat, Never put the heater in the same room as the
flock, especially if the room is small. Most kerosene heaters have
outputs that range from
10,000 to 23,000 BTUs. This will quickly overheat the room and be
worse than the cold for the birds.
6. Always use K1 or water white kerosene, other grades of kerosene
have impurities typically sulfur, which may produce harmful sulfur
dioxide gasses when burned.
7. Place a NON-STICK pot filled with water on top of the heater so
that humidity levels can be maintained. Watch the water level and keep
it filled. Kerosene heaters because of the extremely high temperatures
will lower
the humidity in the home very rapidly.
8. Never use gasoline for obvious reasons.
Another more expensive, however far safer option is a standby or
emergency generator. Small versions of these generators are available
at camping stores, hardware and most Home Depot stores. A small but
adequate unit of
3000 watts, will allow you to keep an electric radiator type heater
on, along with a few lights, small refrigerator or microwave and a TV
set to keep the human occupants sane and will cost under $400.00 The
only disadv
antage to this is that you must be home to start it in all but the
nicest weather, have a place to store it and be willing to go out and
refuel it as needed.
Sorry that I can't help with how may conforters is too much, as we
finally installed a fully automatic generating system to protect our
flock. Good Luck, and Keep Warm Safely :-)
Ed.
Bob and Traci Kellum
good around your birds. I have personally known people whose entire
aviary was wiped out because of a non stick pan getting too hot and
releasing some gas. Has this changed, or has non stick changed. I
threw out all my non stick and bought stainless steel so I wouldn't
accidently poison my babies.
any input would be appreciated.
Edward Ermler wrote:
> 6. Always use K1 or water white kerosene, other grades of kerosene
> have impurities typically sulfur, which may produce harmful sulfur
> dioxide gasses when burned.
>
> 7. Place a NON-STICK pot filled with water on top of the heater so
> that humidity levels can be maintained. Watch the water level and
keep
> it filled. Kerosene heaters because of the extremely high
temperatures
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You can Move a mountain, but you can't budge a big dog!
Bob, Traci, & Talyna Kellum
kel...@emh1.pa.net
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
hjoh...@wgl.com
>
>7. Place a NON-STICK pot filled with water on top of the heater so
>that humidity levels can be maintained. Watch the water level and keep
>it filled. Kerosene heaters because of the extremely high temperatures
>will lower
> the humidity in the home very rapidly.
I just wanted to call attention to what was probably a typo in the above
advice, but just in case anyone out there hasn't heard about the dangers
of non-stick cookware for birds, the message should read a NON non-stick
pot...
Thanks
Hyded
amy
Bob and Traci Kellum <kel...@emh1.pa.net> wrote:
>I have always read and understood that NON STICK cookware was not
>good around your birds. I have personally known people whose entire
>aviary was wiped out because of a non stick pan getting too hot and
>releasing some gas. Has this changed, or has non stick changed. I
>threw out all my non stick and bought stainless steel so I wouldn't
>accidently poison my babies.
>
>any input would be appreciated.
As published in BirdTalk, Teflon does not release any harmful fumes
unless heated above 530 degrees F. (If you are going to say, "Oh yes
it does!" please provide a reference for the claim.)
Under normal recommended cooking use, nothing gets this hot. However,
accidents are called so for a reason, and it is perfectly reasonable
to decide that you'd prefer to just elminate teflon from your home
than have the added worry of being careful when you cook.
For those just reading, also be aware that teflon can be found in/on
many appliances, everything from irons to self cleaning ovens to the
insides of bread makers.
Me, personally, I have always been very careful in the kitchen. Now
that I have birds, I do not buy anything that has teflon on/in it.
However, I could never afford to replace all of my pots and pans that
were wedding gifts. The solution is the same one we all use for
various other dangers (other pets, ceiling fans, doors, etc): strict
and extra careful attention. For instance, if I'm cooking, I stand
right there with it. If the phone rings or I have to use the
restroom, I turn the pan off. I don't cook anything of a variety
fancy enough that interrupting a cooking time is going to ruin it
anyway! Proper use of teflon cookware is not a danger.
Yes, a pan left on the stove can result in the release of toxic fumes.
The solution is to not leave the pan on the stove (or the door open,
or the fan on, or the window uncovered, or the toilet seat open
or...). If you decide that not having the pans *period* is the best
way for you to accomplish that, then that's wonderful.
amy
allynn wilkinson
In a previous article, aly...@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (amy) says:
>As published in BirdTalk, Teflon does not release any harmful fumes
>unless heated above 530 degrees F. (If you are going to say, "Oh yes
>it does!" please provide a reference for the claim.)
I can't provide any references but I would be *extra-especially-super
-cautiously-wary* of cheap rip-offs of Teflon (i.e. non-stick cookware
sold at discount, odd lots places). Just a feeling I have that, if *any*
non-stick would be dangerous at lower temperatures, it would be the
cheapo stuff. I *thought* I had read something in Bird Talk stating that
the *first* use of non-stick cookware is potentially dangerous because
...well... just because! I can't remember and I can't find the reference!
I only own one piece of non-stick cookware - a waffle iron. The "house
rule" is that it is only use in the summer when all the windows are open
and the birds are near one! I have found it *very* difficult to buy
things like irons and even ironing boards that don't have some non-stick
in them. Of course I'm a grad student so ironing isn't really a priority
anyway :)
>
>Me, personally, I have always been very careful in the kitchen. Now
>that I have birds, I do not buy anything that has teflon on/in it.
>However, I could never afford to replace all of my pots and pans that
>were wedding gifts.
>The solution is the same one we all use for
>various other dangers (other pets, ceiling fans, doors, etc): strict
>and extra careful attention.
Extra vigilence is absolutely the best option. I don't even allow my
birds out when the stove is on (and I have electric - it worse when I had
gas). I have so much trouble realizing that there are people who don't
do this. This isn't meant to be controversial... it's just that, well, I
guess I was so over protected as a child that it comes sort of naturally
to me! When I left my birds with my Mother last summer (when I went
overseas) I left her a five page document of do's, don'ts and disaster
prevention. She said it was four pages longer than the list a neighbor
left her when my Mother was babysitting her 4-month-old for a week!
Allynn
amy
allynn wilkinson <awi...@bgnet.bgsu.edu> wrote:
[...]
>Extra vigilence is absolutely the best option. I don't even allow my
>birds out when the stove is on (and I have electric - it worse when I had
>gas). I have so much trouble realizing that there are people who don't
>do this. This isn't meant to be controversial... it's just that, well, I
>guess I was so over protected as a child that it comes sort of naturally
>to me! When I left my birds with my Mother last summer (when I went
>overseas) I left her a five page document of do's, don'ts and disaster
>prevention. She said it was four pages longer than the list a neighbor
>left her when my Mother was babysitting her 4-month-old for a week!
I find it funny that you mention your upbringing because I know I was
raised by a very overprotective father, who is downright anal
retentive when it comes to issues of safety. I think it's this
background that makes me feel comfortable avoiding some risks.
Such as pans on the stove... knock on wood, I've NEVER left a pan on
the stove to where it dried out/overheated/whatever. I can't even
imagine it. Certain procedures were simply drilled into my head when
I was growing up, and attention to safety details in a variety of
things was definitely one of them.
amy
Sharon Kass
move my bird to a friend or relative nearby, if it weren't possible I would
like to have this information at my fingertips. Can I request that this
information be added to a FAQ or some of the great pet bird web pages I've
seen?
Regards,
Sharon
s...@locus.com
Kevin Michael Chu
aly...@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (amy) wrote:
> As published in BirdTalk, Teflon does not release any harmful fumes
> unless heated above 530 degrees F. (If you are going to say, "Oh yes
> it does!" please provide a reference for the claim.)
Years ago during another PTFE thread, there was a guy from a
chemical company who participated in the thread. I don't
remember what the final results were (I didn't care since PTFE
cookware is prohibited in my home), but the issues discussed
included how exact the 530 degrees F figure is, how black and
white the figure is (absolutely no emissions < 530, 100% > 530?),
and how the figure and/or emissions changed as the pan aged. If
anyone remembers exactly who this guy was (Barbara? Kelly?
Mike?), maybe we could hit him for some facts. It was the guy
who mentioned his company used dogs in their testing, and they
put dogs in sealed rooms, overheated the pans, and watched the
dogs die painfully from heart and nerve problems.
--
Kevin Chu
kev...@wimsey.ca
CRAN...@rcrandal.wrc.xerox.com
Proper use of teflon cookware is not a danger.
Yes, a pan left on the stove can result in the release of toxic fumes.
These statements are pretty good, but the word toxic may be a little
strong. Teflon is applied at temperatures much greater than the 530F
you refer to - otherwise it wouldn't stick to the pan ;-)
It starts to degrade at about 600 C (around 1100 F) a temperature not
esiliy attained in a kitchen environment under normal use. Dry the
pan out under full heat on a gas stove and you can even burn aluminum
however. The fumes given off at lower temperatures of degradration
are very much like freon ( I do have scientific references that date
back to the late 1940's and early 1950's - see the Polymer Handbook to
begin, if you like) The gases evolved are CF4, C3F6 and C4F8, which
are quite similar to freon in their physical and chemical properties;
there are also reports of hydrogen fluoride undermuch stronger
oxidative (burning - combustion) conditions. This is a corrosive gas
that combines with water to make an acid that is pretty nasty. In
order to generate this, your pan would no longer be recognizable I
would think. If you have serious concerns about freon, then I have a
related question for you. Your refrigerator, airconditioner
(residential and automotive) have freon which can be released into the
home atmosphere when a leak occurs. The only real hazard here is in
the displacement of normal breathing oxygen if a lot of gas is
released, because these gases are otherwise pretty tame.
The bottom line is that these coatings are pretty darn good; They
don't need to be feared, and I (as a chemist speaking now) would
sooner eat food prepared on these surfaces than those from a simple
aluminum pan. They're almost as good as cooking on glass itself!
BTW - do you have a carbon monoxide detector? If you have central
heating, I would encourage that very much. Freon at least has an
odor, albeit not very powerful, but noticable at reasonable levels.
Kevin Michael Chu
CRAN...@rcrandal.wrc.xerox.com wrote:
> sooner eat food prepared on these surfaces than those from a
> simple aluminum pan. They're almost as good as cooking on glass
> itself!
I thought it was common knowledge that aluminum leaches into the
food. That's why your white sauces and things turn grey, and you
start to lose your brain functions. Aluminum cookware should not
be used.
What about the durability of the PTFE surface? Don't PTFE-coated
pieces of cookware have to be replaced when the coating wears
off? Where did the coating go? Into the food....
If the PTFE coatings are applied at high temperatures, what do
they do with the gases created during application (if any)?
--
Kevin Chu
kev...@wimsey.ca
Theresa Garton
and is having trouble finding knowledgeable lovebird breeders to give
her specifics(also, one of them is to be a christmas present for my
nephew, so I need to know, as I will be taking care of it until
christmas!). The babies are 2-3 weeks right now, when is it best to
separate them, once they are separated from their parents, how often
should they be fed, and how much? Anything else we should know about
how to make sure they are pleasant pets? They are being handled daily,
and handfed a couple of times a day if crops are not full when handled.
Theresa Garton Tga...@ix.netcom.com
Doug Bedwell
Theresa,
I like to pull any babies that I intend to handfeed at about 14-16 days.
By that time they've grown large enough that they're fairly easy to feed,
and they're not nearly as fragile as newborn chicks. If I wait 'till
they're 3 weeks or more old, they become a little more fearful of people,
and though they generally get over it, it's a little harder to get them
to accept a syringe.
At that age, I feed my babies 4-5 times a day, depending on how often they
seem to need it. As for how much to feed them, I feed them 'till they're
full, which takes 6-18 cc depending on the chick's age and appetite. You
indicate that you know how to check a baby's crop, you need to fill it.
I then check them regularly to see how their crops are emptying. I try to
pull babies on a weekend, so we all have a couple of days to adjust to the
feeding schedule. Usually we settle into a nice routine of morning, noon,
evening, and night feedings.
Do you have an incubator set up? the babies will need to be kept warm, as
they won't be able to generate enough heat for themselves until they are at
least 30 days old or so. Also, I would recommend against seperating your
nephew's chick from his clutchmates until he's at least approaching weaning
age (6-7 weeks). Baby lovebirds need the warmth and stimulation that comes
from close physical contact with other babies. I really believe this. I
never pull a single baby for feeding, or leave parents with only a single
chick if I can possibly avoid it.
In my experience, the most important thing for making sweet pets out of
your baby lovebirds is human interaction between weeks 5 and 7. They
really do an incredible amount of exploring and discovering during this
short stretch of time when they are learning to fly, and if you can take
one hour a day to play with them, they will make much better pets than
if you only take them out to feed them, then put them back. Let them
climb on you, fold your arms to make hiding places and "caves" for them
to explore. There's nothing more fun than having half a dozen baby
lovebirds crawling on you, preening your hair, and shouting in your ear.
Trust me.
Please E-mail me if I can be of any further help.
Doug Bedwell
Blue Chip Aviary
Dennis.Insley
doesn't freon gas or similar gases become poisonous when exposed to an
open flame?