Teflon: If you think you won't overheat it, think again
parrot...@my-deja.com
long as you don't overheat it. Almost all Teflon/nonstick cookware (this
includes Silverstone) deaths I've personally known about were due to a
moment's inattention, a phone call, a door bell...a timer not going
off...always HUMAN error.
If you don't want there to be any chance of your birds dying from this,
buy stainless steel. It is easy to clean and frankly, it is healthier
for cooking (no bits of foreign substance willbe scraped into your food
as you cook for one thing).
Just because one person uses Teflon and nothing happens, doesn't mean it
won't happen to you. Read the horrific story of the man who forgot the
water boiling on the stove and found his amazon thrashing in agony on
the bottom of his cage:
http://www.parrotparrot.com/birdhealth/alerts.htm
Also, I have numerous references on the page regarding scientific
studies on the dangers to birds.
Note the word "accidental" in this example:
Ehrsam H. ["Fatal poisoning of small pet birds following accidental
overheating of cooking pans lined with
polytetrafluorethylene."] Schweiz Arch Tierheilkd (Switzerland), 1969,
V. 111, No. 4, p. 181-186.
The only circumstances in which Teflon should be used in a house with
birds is if the humans in the house have never made a mistake in their
entire lives and there is no chance they'll make one overheating a pan.
This type of death is horrific and painful, don't take any chances.
Vera
http://www.parrotparrot.com
http://birds.about.com
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Frederick Wilson
>
> It really worries me that people are saying Teflon is safe to use as
> long as you don't overheat it. Almost all Teflon/nonstick cookware (this
> includes Silverstone) deaths I've personally known about were due to a
> moment's inattention, a phone call, a door bell...a timer not going
> off...always HUMAN error.
He asked for specifics, not emotion. You can also find plenty of horror
stories of drownings, mutilations, crushings, and a wide variety of
poisoning from many sources. the only way anyone can be 100% sure they
will never harm their bird through an accident is to NEVER have a bird.
Off the top of my head the ways birds have died, or were seriously
injured through accident on the various lists I'm on:
Crushing - several - includes stepping on, closing door on, droping
something on, kid sitting on, dog laying on, siting grocies on, and a
number of birds crushed while sleeping with owners.
Poisonings - other than PTFE - includes scented candles, cleaning
solvent, bleach/ammonia cleaners being accidently mixed, toxic plants,
furniture polish, brake fluid, glue.
Mutilations - Vacuum cleaner, lawn mower, weed eater, sewing machine,
knives
Drownings - toilets, sincs, water glass, coffee cup, bath tub, wading
pool, ornamental fountain, washing machine.
Misc - boiling water, open oven, electric stove burner, gas stove
burner, malfunctioning gas stove, malfunctioning furnace, cloths dryer,
electrical cords, windows, mirrors, ropes, strings, various toys
In fact I have only heard of a single verified case of teflon poisoning
in the past two years and a couple of "consistant with" cases. Teflon
is a known, and very deadly, poison under certain conditions but the
hysteria that surrounds it among bird people appears to be largly
emotional and unjustified. Reasonable caution is the key. Just as in
any other aspect of bird care it is important to be aware of what you
are doing whenever the birds are in a position to get into ANYTHING, or
be harmed, and to take precautions to protect them.
--
TA
FAW
"Hope is a feathered thing that perches on the soul" E. Dickenson
Visit our web page at
http://pweb.netcom.com/~faw/Geobass/plot.html
Dan Spencer
It is always good to read the horror stories in order to make us all more
cautious. However, the horror stories have to be tempered with the fact
that that Teflon cookware has been used in probably the vast majority of
bird owning households with no ill effects. I would say that most bird
owners are probably uninformed of the dangers of Teflon pans, but use them
all the time with no ill effects. I have done my own informal surveys at
work with bird owners and they are not aware of the dangers. Most bird
owners do not read this newsgroup nor do they seek out this information on
the Web. I have yet to see any warnings about Teflon posted in any bird
stores and I have been to many. Most bird owners are oblivious to the
danger and do not burn their Teflon pans.
My main concern about Teflon? Being out of town and having my pet sitter
overheat my pans. I put the warning in writing to them before I leave town,
as well as the dangers of giving birds chocolate, avocado, etc. I alway
leave pet care instructions to my pet sitters.
--
Dan Spencer
http://www.theupperdeck.com/petpage
<parrot...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:7j6n49$on0$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> It really worries me that people are saying Teflon is safe to use as
> long as you don't overheat it. Almost all Teflon/nonstick cookware (this
> includes Silverstone) deaths I've personally known about were due to a
> moment's inattention, a phone call, a door bell...a timer not going
> off...always HUMAN error.
>
Mamabird
--
Mama
Visit "Mamabird's Nest" at http://members.tripod.com/~iluvbirds/
To email reply: Change nest to net.
"What are YOU lookin' at?" Wicka, Congo African Grey
---
> parrot...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > It really worries me that people are saying Teflon is safe to use as
> > long as you don't overheat it. Almost all Teflon/nonstick cookware
(this
> > includes Silverstone) deaths I've personally known about were due to a
> > moment's inattention, a phone call, a door bell...a timer not going
> > off...always HUMAN error.
Frederick Wilson <f...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:375701B2...@ix.netcom.com...
I R A Aggie
<ObE53.4319$0S3....@eagle.america.net> wrote:
+ Fred gets a standing ovation !!!!!!!!!!!
Absolutely.
James
SBREA24
>entire lives and there is no chance they'll make one overheating a pan.
>
>This type of death is horrific and painful, don't take any chances.
>
you said this perfectly. AMEN!! Don't Ever take a chance with teflon. I too
have heard many horror stories. It is an accident waiting to happen,
SBREA24
>something on, kid sitting on, dog laying on, siting grocies on, and a
>number of birds crushed while sleeping with owners.
>
don't forget flighted birds flying into paddle fans. My vet says he sees alot
of this and it's not pretty
Liz
on the stove while she answers the phone and then sets the kitchen on fire.
If you rush off to answer the phone as soon as it rings, rather than taking
stuff off the stove first, you are a dimwit. My mum taught me that when I
was 4.
We used teflon for months before we found out it was toxic. We always put
our bird in his cage when we are cooking anyway (so he doesn't get curious
and cook his toes, and it isn't that hard to open the window. And I make a
pretty concerted effort not to burn my food, as a general rule.
There's common sense and there is hysteria.
But that is just my opinion.
Liz
Frederick Wilson <f...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:375701B2...@ix.netcom.com...
> parrot...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > It really worries me that people are saying Teflon is safe to use as
> > long as you don't overheat it. Almost all Teflon/nonstick cookware (this
> > includes Silverstone) deaths I've personally known about were due to a
> > moment's inattention, a phone call, a door bell...a timer not going
> > off...always HUMAN error.
>
> He asked for specifics, not emotion. You can also find plenty of horror
> stories of drownings, mutilations, crushings, and a wide variety of
> poisoning from many sources. the only way anyone can be 100% sure they
> will never harm their bird through an accident is to NEVER have a bird.
> Off the top of my head the ways birds have died, or were seriously
> injured through accident on the various lists I'm on:
>
> Crushing - several - includes stepping on, closing door on, droping
> something on, kid sitting on, dog laying on, siting grocies on, and a
> number of birds crushed while sleeping with owners.
>
Alex Clayton
with us. They just get re hashed over and over again by people who have
no clue but once they hear something will spend years re telling it.
---------------------------------
mama...@suwanneevalley.nest (Mamabird) Re: Teflon: If you think you
won't overheat it, think again Fred gets a standing ovation
!!!!!!!!!!!
--
Mama
Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my gun.
>unknown
parrot...@my-deja.com
sbr...@aol.com (SBREA24) wrote:
> you said this perfectly. AMEN!! Don't Ever take a chance with teflon.
I too
> have heard many horror stories. It is an accident waiting to happen,
Thanks! I'm glad someone doesn't think this is just hysteria. Here are a
few refs for those who need scientific sources, followed by a true
story...
(I'm not sure how listing every awful way for a bird to die in the home
justifies endangering them in one more way. I believe in bird proofing
homes and ask each new owner to follow these guidelines before taking
home one of my birds. I shudder to think that they are being crushed,
mutilated, drowned, burned...and that some people think that's the way
it just is.)
Blandford TB, Seamon PJ, Hughes R, Pattison M, Wilderspin MP. "A case of
polytetrafluoroethylene poisoning in cockatiels
accompanied by polymer fume fever in the owner." Veterinary
Record, 1975, V.96, No. 8, p.175-176.
Duff P. "Acute inhalant toxicosis of cagebirds." Veterinary
Record, 1997, V. 141, No. 4, p. 107.
Ehrsam H. ["Fatal poisoning of small pet birds following
accidental overheating of cooking pans lined with
polytetrafluorethylene."] Schweiz Arch Tierheilkd
(Switzerland), 1969, V. 111, No. 4, p. 181-186.
Forbes NA, Jones D. "PTFE toxicity in birds." Veterinary
Record, 1997, V. 140, N. 19, p. 512.
Holt PE. "PTFE (polytetrafluoroethylene) toxicity in birds."
Veterinary Record, 1997, V. 141, No. 7, p. 180.
Lumeij JT. ["Risk for pet birds following exposure to burn
products of pans coated with PTEF and butter."] Tijdschr
Diergeneeskd (Netherlands), 1997, Vol. 122, No. 24, p. 720.
Stoltz JH, Galey F, Johnson B. "Sudden death in ten
psittacine birds associated with the operation of a self-cleaning oven."
Veterinary and Human Toxicology, 1992, Vol. 34, No. 5, p.
420-421.
Temple WA, Edwards IR, Bell SJ. "Poly (polymer) fume fever -
two fatal cases (cage birds)." New Zealand Veterinary
Journal, 1985, Vol. 33, No. 3, p. 30.
Temple WA, Edwards IR, Bell SJ. "Poly fume fever - two fatal
cases (poisoning of Psittaciformes by fumes from heated teflon
saucepans)." Australian Veterinary Practitioner, 1985, Vol.
15, No. 2, p. 66.
Wells RE. "Fatal toxicosis in pet birds caused by an
overheated cooking pan lined with polytetrafluoroethylene." Journal of
the American Veterinary Medical Association, 1983, Vol. 182,
No. 11, p. 1248-1250.
Wells RE, Slocombe RF, Trapp AL. "Acute toxicosis of
budgerigars (Melopsittacus undulatus) caused by pyrolysis products
from heated polytetrafluoroethylene: clinical study."
American Journal of Veterinary Research, 1982, Vol. 43, No. 7, p.
1238-1242.
Wells RE, Slocombe RF. "Acute toxicosis of budgerigars
(Melopsittacus undulatus) caused by pyrolysis products from heated
polytetrafluoroethylene: microscopic study." American
Journal of Veterinary Medicine, Vol. 43, No. 7, p. 1243-1248.
----
"I just lost my Kola Bird (he was a Yellow Cheek Amazon) to Teflon
poisoning. I came home from work and was heating up some water for a cup
of hot cocoa. I forgot about the water on the stove. A while later I
heard my boy fall off of his perch, but I didn't hear anything else so
I went to investigate. He was sitting on the bottom of the cage with his
head kind of bobbing back and forth. In less than five minutes, he was
dying in my arms. It was the saddest thing watching my friend of
twenty-one years take his last breath in my arms. Please pass this piece
on so that maybe another death can be prevented. It hurts real bad."
Kevin Chu
> (I'm not sure how listing every awful way for a bird to die in the
> home justifies endangering them in one more way. I believe in bird
While I can understand Fred's point of view, and the importance of the
non-PTFE aspects of birdproofing a home, I think you make an important
point here. Care should be taken to not step on a bird, just as care
should be taken to not overheat PTFE. But just because you CAN step
on a bird, doesn't mean you should ignore the PTFE danger. (And if
you CAN step on a bird, something's wrong -- are you not watching your
bird when she's out?)
People who write, "I heard yadda yadda about Teflon cookware, is it
true?" should be pointed to a FAQ somewhere, that discusses what
happens when PTFE is heated to its outgassing temperature, and how
easily and quickly cookware can reach that temperature (you answer the
phone or the door and it's done). People should be disciplined enough
to pay attention when using PTFE-coated cookware (they should remove
it from heat before answering the phone, and they should not put it on
another burner!), and if they don't have that discipline then they
should be discouraged from having PTFE-coated cookware (or discouraged
from having birds).
Of course, the same discipline should be applied to other things, like
keeping the toilet covered.
Kevin
--
Kevin Chu ke...@portal.ca
http://members.tripod.com/~super_kevin/
CricketRAH
>Newsgroups: rec.pets.birds
>(I'm not sure how listing every awful way for a bird to die in the home
>justifies endangering them in one more way.
I agree. Some folks will rationalize and rationalize this though, Not till they
actually hold a dying bird, as I did, on Christmas Day no less, does it hit
home. Can you yank out your toilet and toss it away? Not likely. Can you
substitute stainless or cast iron for teflon? Very easily. Teflon use is
dangerous, period. (Smoking is too, try telling that to some smokers and they
may tell you their 80 year old father is still puffing away! Rationalization at
work!!) Some few may get away with using it, for the time being but I can not
see the gamble being worth my amazons lives, or my smallest finch's.
Cricket
SBREA24
>
>Thanks! I'm glad someone doesn't think this is just hysteria. Here are a
>few refs for those who need scientific sources, followed by a true
>story...
>
To use teflon is to tempt fate! My birds are too precious to me to EVER say
about any danger 'that's just the way it is". This is not to say nothing will
ever happen here but any KNOWN visible or potential risk is eliminated
immediately. One has to be constantly on red alert with these creatures.
Mary
threads on this from time to time over the years.
Great info! Better save this msg the topic will come up again soon!
--
Mary Arnold
Sparky's Home Page "www.neta.com/~tarnold/sparky.html"
Alex Clayton
same over emotional BS they can get right here. No facts but lots and
lots of "feel good" emotion. Actually it is not easy to heat a pan to
over 500 deg. You would have to work at it. And as you said if you are
not disciplined enough to remove it before you go yack on the phone or
talk to some vacuum sales man you don't need a bird. The thing people
hate to see is the smoke from food is what is going to get the bird long
before anything else. Unless you do all your cooking blow torch style
your pans are not going to hit 500 +. But then after people throw away
all their Teflon for that "feel good" experience they are still going to
kill their bird with smoke from grease or oil. I guess at that point
they would have to see if they have any Frebreze in the cupboard some
where so they can blame it on that. After all it JUST CAN'T be their own
fault because they burned something on the stove. There just has to be
some evil product to blame for their own stupidity.
------------------------------------
parrot...@my-deja.com wrote:
People who write, "I heard yadda yadda about Teflon cookware, is it
true?" should be pointed to a FAQ somewhere, that discusses what happens
when PTFE is heated to its outgassing temperature, and how easily and
quickly cookware can reach that temperature (you answer the phone or the
door and it's done). People should be disciplined enough to pay
attention when using PTFE-coated cookware (they should remove it from
heat before answering the phone, and they should not put it on another
burner!), and if they don't have that discipline then they should be
discouraged from having PTFE-coated cookware (or discouraged from having
birds). Of course, the same discipline should be applied to other
things, like keeping the toilet covered. Kevin
--
Kevin Chu ke...@portal.ca
http://members.tripod.com/~super_kevin/
Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my gun.
>unknown
CricketRAH
cooking!!! THAT is why I tossed my teflon, HE revved up the omelet pan and
killed my teil!
Cristi Recker
not told the correct temperature of the hand fed food to feed it. That is why this
ng is so helpful.
CricketRAH wrote:
> oO---------------------------------------------------------Oo
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> * To modify or remove your subscription, go to
> http://www.deja.com/edit_sub.xp?group=rec.pets.birds
> * Read this thread at
> http://www.deja.com/thread/%3C19990605061832.14076.00000934%40ng-fp1.aol.com%3E
> oO---------------------------------------------------------Oo
Martin & Jenny
Martin
CricketRAH wrote in message
<19990605061832...@ng-fp1.aol.com>...
Alex Clayton
omelet pan at over 500 deg the eggs would have been in flames. If he
does that with any pan and has any kind of grease or oil in it you will
have a fire and dead birds.
-------------------------------------
crick...@aol.com (CricketRAH) Re: Teflon: If you think you won't
overheat it, think again hahahahah! Alex, you made my DAY!!! You just
Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my gun.
>unknown
cand...@mediaone.net
did NOT acheive said temperature, but I think one should take into
consider-
ation conductivity. Metals will gain and lose heat rapidly because of
their very nature. I just don't consider that a valid, controlled test.
No offense.
Mike
In <7jch5b$7er$1...@netnews.upenn.edu>, on 06/06/99
at 12:59 AM, @assets.wharton.upenn.edu () said:
>Olive oil will start to smoke around 300, some oils can hit around 500
>and won't smoke. I once had a list of cooking oils and smoking points.
>Put an oven, all-steel thermometer in a pan and see how fast it gets to
>over 500. I tried this and turned my back briefly, somewhere between 20
>and 60 seconds and the thermometer went off the scale, so it was past
>600, looked like 700 if extrapolating from the 550 which was the last
>number on the scale. The pan was empty when I did this.
>Don't take my word for it, try it and see how fast metal heats up over a
>moderate flame, not even a high one, just moderate that is, the flames
>barely touching the bottom of the pan.
>If teflon outgasses around 536 Fahrenheit, then to release the toxic gas
>is less than a minute from my little experiment, with a moderate flame
>and an empty pan.
>On Sat, 5 Jun 1999 15:18:39 -0700 (PDT); Alex...@webtv.net wrote: :
-_--_----___-_----_-_----_--__--_--
Zoo Keeper matthew 11:28-30
--_--__-----____--_-_----__----_---
cand...@mediaone.net
driving because everyday on the freeway there is some sort of near miss or
potential for a serious accident that could kill me or someone else. I'm
also never walking my dogs in the woods for fear a fisher will get one of
them (they do stalk during the day). Neither will I ever eat again, the
chance is too great I'll choke and die).
(Point being I am not going to give up everything or anything that has a
potential risk of harm to me or to others -- everything is wrought with
danger in our lives that is why people often die. I just don't want to
end up as one of those "Darwin Award" victims).
As an aside, actually, I did choke when I was 11 years old. Scared me so
bad that I stopped swallowing, PERIOD. Had to be hospitalized for
dehydration (would not even swallow my own spit). Took a lot of therapy
and hypnotism to convince me that I wouldn't choke and die if I ate. Kind
of funny when you look back on it and hear it told that way... sorry for
the digression.
Mike
In <19990605094300...@ng-cf1.aol.com>, on 06/05/99
Kevin Chu
> Somehow I am not sure I buy that. I mean, I do not think your thermometer
> did NOT acheive said temperature, but I think one should take into
> consider-
> ation conductivity. Metals will gain and lose heat rapidly because of
> their very nature. I just don't consider that a valid, controlled test.
> No offense.
Okay, so do the same test with a PTFE-coated pan. (Do it away from
birds.) The uncoated pan is surrounded by an insulator (air). The
PTFE-coated pan will have a layer of polymer on it. Is the polymer
more of an insulator than air? If so, the pan won't dissipate heat as
quickly as the uncoated pan. If so, then won't the pan heat even
faster? Some of this depends on the mass of the pan, its shape, etc..
Just FYI, heat travels slowly, even through metals. You can hang onto
one end of something and solder the other end. Or even weld the other
end, if you're fast. I think Adam's test is valid.
Frederick Wilson
> I shudder to think that they are being crushed,
> mutilated, drowned, burned
the point is no one has suggested giving away stoves, heaters, furnaces,
not using cleaners, getting an outhoust, living without doors or dryers
or washing machines. Yet mention teflon and people respond with
hysteria. As a danger to a bird teflon is no different than any of the
other things. Considering how often many of those things turn up on the
lists and NG, it would seem the effort put into getting uptight over
teflon could be better spent educating people about the far more common
hazards to their birds.
Frederick Wilson
>
> Olive oil will start to smoke around 300, some oils can hit around 500 and
> won't smoke. I once had a list of cooking oils and smoking points.
>
> Put an oven, all-steel thermometer in a pan and see how fast it gets to
> over 500. I tried this and turned my back briefly, somewhere between 20
> and 60 seconds and the thermometer went off the scale, so it was past
> 600, looked like 700 if extrapolating from the 550 which was the last
> number on the scale. The pan was empty when I did this.
>
> Don't take my word for it, try it and see how fast metal heats up over a
> moderate flame, not even a high one, just moderate that is, the flames
> barely touching the bottom of the pan.
>
>
I assume that if you reached 700F the pan had an all metal handle and
that the teflon lining seperated and became ash like and if it was an
aluminum pan it began to melt. Because those are the things that happen
at those temps. did you try putting a drop of cooking oil in the pan.
At 700F it would have burst into flame instantly. Did you drop a piece
of paper into it. Same result. Because cookware is designed to
transfer heat effeciently your experiment with a thermometer is
meaningless. Even if you could accurately measure temps using a
houselold theemometer laying in the pan, it wouldn't be an oven
thermometer. It is designed to read air temperature. Vist a welding
shop and pick up a heat stick for 500F. It is a wax that will melt and
change color at a specific temperature. then try your experiment
again. Or talk to a metalurgist and have them explain conduction,
convection, and thermal feedback to you.
Alex Clayton
So if I put some butter in a pan on med flame it would burst into flame
in 30 seconds since it would be over 700 deg.??? Ya right got your PHD
yet?
------------------------------
Put an oven, all-steel thermometer in a pan and see how fast it gets to
over 500. I tried this and turned my back briefly, somewhere between 20
and 60 seconds and the thermometer went off the scale, so it was past
600, looked like 700 if extrapolating from the 550 which was the last
number on the scale. The pan was empty when I did this. Don't take my
word for it, try it and see how fast metal heats up over a moderate
flame, not even a high one, just moderate that is, the flames barely
Fahrenheit, then to release the toxic gas is less than a minute from my
little experiment, with a moderate flame and an empty pan. On Sat, 5
Jun 1999 15:18:39 -0700 (PDT);
Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my gun.
>unknown
CricketRAH
I could fill volumes with his cooking escapade! But I really like the "blow
torch" description. Esp. funny since he uses one on his job too!
Cricket
>From: Alex...@webtv.net (Alex Clayton)
>Sounds like you better tell him microwave cooking only!! If he had your
>omelet pan at over 500 deg the eggs would have been in flames. If he
>does that with any pan and has any kind of grease or oil in it you will
>have a fire and dead birds.
>-------------------------------------
>crick...@aol.com (CricketRAH) Re: Teflon: If you think you won't
>overheat it, think again hahahahah! Alex, you made my DAY!!! You just
>described my husband's form for cooking!!! THAT is why I tossed my
>teflon, HE revved up the omelet pan and killed my teil! From:
>Alex...@webtv.net (Alex
>Unless you do all your cooking blow torch style your pans are not going
>to hit 500 +.
>
assets.wharton.upenn.edu
won't smoke. I once had a list of cooking oils and smoking points.
Put an oven, all-steel thermometer in a pan and see how fast it gets to
over 500. I tried this and turned my back briefly, somewhere between 20
and 60 seconds and the thermometer went off the scale, so it was past
600, looked like 700 if extrapolating from the 550 which was the last
number on the scale. The pan was empty when I did this.
Don't take my word for it, try it and see how fast metal heats up over a
moderate flame, not even a high one, just moderate that is, the flames
barely touching the bottom of the pan.
If teflon outgasses around 536 Fahrenheit, then to release the toxic gas
is less than a minute from my little experiment, with a moderate flame and
an empty pan.
On Sat, 5 Jun 1999 15:18:39 -0700 (PDT); Alex...@webtv.net wrote:
: Sounds like you better tell him microwave cooking only!! If he had your
assets.wharton.upenn.edu
i thought they were very poorly done. is that the reason you hang out
here and badmouth and try to bully people? frustrated artist syndome?
put some butter in a pan, you have enough brain cells to figure out how
to do that. put any metal thermometer in the pan, you know how to put
something in a pan? get someone to help you if you can't coordinate
this, as shown from your artwork.
you may have to get someone to read the thermometer for you.
On Sat, 5 Jun 1999 22:56:19 -0700 (PDT); Alex...@webtv.net wrote:
: This from someone posting from a university???? LOL!!
: So if I put some butter in a pan on med flame it would burst into flame
: in 30 seconds since it would be over 700 deg.??? Ya right got your PHD
: yet?
: ------------------------------
: Put an oven, all-steel thermometer in a pan and see how fast it gets to
: over 500. I tried this and turned my back briefly, somewhere between 20
: and 60 seconds and the thermometer went off the scale, so it was past
: 600, looked like 700 if extrapolating from the 550 which was the last
: number on the scale. The pan was empty when I did this. Don't take my
: word for it, try it and see how fast metal heats up over a moderate
: flame, not even a high one, just moderate that is, the flames barely
: touching the bottom of the pan. If teflon outgasses around 536
: Fahrenheit, then to release the toxic gas is less than a minute from my
: little experiment, with a moderate flame and an empty pan. On Sat, 5
: Jun 1999 15:18:39 -0700 (PDT);
: Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my gun.
: >unknown
assets.wharton.upenn.edu
don't bluff and throw out this distorted logic and facts when you discuss
birds.
For your homework, look up the melting point of aluminum and the melting
point of an ordinary aluminum pan. Post the information here and give me
apology for wasting my time with the nonsense you posted below. It's
actually worse than nonsense since you threw together some facts which if
you knew what they meant would actually have prove my post was meaningful
and your reply was "meaningless."
This is the second time you have wasted my time by pretending to know
something technical when you are just bluffing at the keyboard. Why do
you do that? Is it to see how much nonsense you can get away with?
The last time you pretended to be a retired mining safety engineer. I
called you on that by pointing out that you did not know what a Davy's
lamp was and misspelled it to boot as Davies.
Come off it. You sound like a nice guy, but stop with throwing out
things with little thought behind them.
On Sat, 05 Jun 1999 22:21:11 -0700; f...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
: I assume that if you reached 700F the pan had an all metal handle and
assets.wharton.upenn.edu
: This from someone posting from a university???? LOL!!
Yes, a university, which is ranked in the top 10 in the USA, and for some
departments, one of the best, if not the best, on this planet. But you
would not know about things like that. Since you pretend to be an artist
at times, did you know that this university is connected to one of the
oldest and best art schools in this country - would you even recognize
that art school's name?
Is webtv your school? I sure hope the rudeness, lack of civility, and
just plain ignorance you present here are not typical of webtv folks.
: So if I put some butter in a pan on med flame it would burst into flame
: in 30 seconds since it would be over 700 deg.??? Ya right got your PHD
: yet?
Do you have a reading comprehension problem?
The main point to my post was how fast an EMPTY pan can reach the
outgassing temperature of teflon. Follow so far?
Empty pans get hotter more quickly than pans with something in them. Follow?
The point made was that the pan hit 550 F., over the 536 F. outgassing of
teflon pretty quickly - just turned my back for a moment or two.
Before making your cheap shot, did you try to heat an empty pan? Since
you are interested in flaming butter, try it. See how long it takes.
And for personal insults, let me give you one back.
Are you still doing that art work? You pretend to be an artist or have
you given that up? I looked at your art work. I thought I detected some
signs of intelligence but little ability, just plain lack of knowing the
basics of art. Have you had any formal training in art?
Are you so vulgar and rude because you are a frustrated artist?
If I am harsh with you it's because I remember how you picked on people
here in this newsgroup and I just don't like cheap-shot bullies.
It was really cruel what you did to one person in particular. I think a
little sensitivity on your part, unlikely as that can be, would help your
art work too. I actually never met a good artist that was insensitive,
rude and vulgar - got the picture?
Mamabird
posted here in quite a long time.
--
Mama
Visit "Mamabird's Nest" at http://members.tripod.com/~iluvbirds/
To email reply: Change nest to net.
"What are YOU lookin' at?" Wicka, Congo African Grey
---
<@assets.wharton.upenn.edu> wrote in message
news:7jdmsp$ohj$1...@netnews.upenn.edu...
> heh, you still posing as an artist with a website full of your posters?
> i thought they were very poorly done. is that the reason you hang out
> here and badmouth and try to bully people? frustrated artist syndome?
>
> put some butter in a pan, you have enough brain cells to figure out how
> to do that. put any metal thermometer in the pan, you know how to put
> something in a pan? get someone to help you if you can't coordinate
> this, as shown from your artwork.
>
> you may have to get someone to read the thermometer for you.
>
>
> On Sat, 5 Jun 1999 22:56:19 -0700 (PDT); Alex...@webtv.net wrote:
> : This from someone posting from a university???? LOL!!
> :
Alex Clayton
Well since you are so smart you must be a teacher at this well respected
school huh? LOL What art work and posters is this? Do you major in pot
smoking and zen?
------------------------------
@assets.wharton.upenn.edu (@assets.wharton.upenn.edu ()) Re: Teflon:
If you think you won't overheat it, think again heh, you still posing
as an artist with a website full of your posters? i thought they were
very poorly done. is that the reason you hang out here and badmouth and
try to bully people? frustrated artist syndome? put some butter in a
pan, you have enough brain cells to figure out how to do that. put any
metal thermometer in the pan, you know how to put something in a pan?
get someone to help you if you can't coordinate this, as shown from your
artwork. you may have to get someone to read the thermometer for you.
Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my gun.
>unknown
Alex Clayton
Wow!! Ranked in the top 10?? Really?
Looks like I set another one off here. Must be the top 10 whacko
University.
--------------------------------If you think you won't overheat it, think again On Sat, 5 Jun 1999
some departments, one of the best, if not the best, on this planet. But
you would not know about things like that. Since you pretend to be an
artist at times, did you know that this university is connected to one
of the oldest and best art schools in this country - would you even
recognize that art school's name? Is webtv your school? I sure hope the
rudeness, lack of civility, and just plain ignorance you present here
flame it would burst into flame in 30 seconds since it would be over 700
problem?
The main point to my post was how fast an EMPTY pan can reach the
outgassing temperature of teflon. Follow so far? Empty pans get hotter
more quickly than pans with something in them. Follow? The point made
was that the pan hit 550 F., over the 536 F. outgassing of teflon pretty
quickly - just turned my back for a moment or two. Before making your
cheap shot, did you try to heat an empty pan? Since you are interested
in flaming butter, try it. See how long it takes. And for personal
insults, let me give you one back.
Are you still doing that art work? You pretend to be an artist or have
you given that up? I looked at your art work. I thought I detected some
signs of intelligence but little ability, just plain lack of knowing the
basics of art. Have you had any formal training in art? Are you so
vulgar and rude because you are a frustrated artist?
If I am harsh with you it's because I remember how you picked on people
here in this newsgroup and I just don't like cheap-shot bullies. It was
really cruel what you did to one person in particular. I think a little
sensitivity on your part, unlikely as that can be, would help your art
work too. I actually never met a good artist that was insensitive, rude
and vulgar - got the picture?
Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my gun.
>unknown
shoed...@my-deja.com
on wood stoves? We live in the midwest and use a wood stove to
supplement our heat. Is there toxity to the birds like there is with
candles and teflon?
In article <375A024E...@ix.netcom.com>,
Frederick Wilson <f...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> parrot...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > I shudder to think that they are being crushed,
> > mutilated, drowned, burned
>
> the point is no one has suggested giving away stoves, heaters,
furnaces,
> not using cleaners, getting an outhoust, living without doors or
dryers
> or washing machines. Yet mention teflon and people respond with
> hysteria. As a danger to a bird teflon is no different than any of
the
> other things. Considering how often many of those things turn up on
the
> lists and NG, it would seem the effort put into getting uptight over
> teflon could be better spent educating people about the far more
common
> hazards to their birds.
>
> TA
> FAW
>
> "Hope is a feathered thing that perches on the soul" E. Dickenson
>
> Visit our web page at
> http://pweb.netcom.com/~faw/Geobass/plot.html
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
cand...@mediaone.net
>birds.) The uncoated pan is surrounded by an insulator (air). The
>PTFE-coated pan will have a layer of polymer on it. Is the polymer more
>of an insulator than air? If so, the pan won't dissipate heat as quickly
>as the uncoated pan. If so, then won't the pan heat even faster? Some
>of this depends on the mass of the pan, its shape, etc..
Why don't you and get back to me. I have to agree with the fact that pans
are designed to heat evenly and distribute and maintain said heat for the
sake of even cooking.
>Just FYI, heat travels slowly, even through metals. You can hang onto
>one end of something and solder the other end. Or even weld the other
>end, if you're fast. I think Adam's test is valid.
-------------
I think IF YOU ARE FAST are the key words there.
Just FYI, heat dissipates readily from solid objects, especially THIN
solid onjects with edges. Why do you think you can pick up a boiling cup
of tea or coffee from the rim? Also, simpler still, why do you think it
is so hard to keep a hot cup of coffee in any container with a rim and a
relatively thin (pan, cup, plate)?
>Kevin
Kevin Chu
> On a related topic, does anyone have toxity information
> on wood stoves? We live in the midwest and use a wood stove to
> supplement our heat. Is there toxity to the birds like there is with
> candles and teflon?
There's a posting by Doug Cook who said you can't use an open-flame
type heater. Other than that I have no input....
Kevin Chu
> The point made was that the pan hit 550 F., over the 536 F. outgassing
> of teflon pretty quickly - just turned my back for a moment or two.
I'm guessing that, depending on where the sensing area for the
thermometer was in relation to the pan's surface, and on the interface
between the pan and the thermometer, the pan may have been hotter than
what the thermometer read.
Kevin Chu
> Just FYI, heat dissipates readily from solid objects, especially THIN
> solid onjects with edges.
Just FYI, I haven't done much heatsink design but this doesn't jive
with what I know.
cand...@mediaone.net
glued to the top of some CPU chips? Can you describe their appearance for
me? Can you describe what they are made of?
Mike
In <375B1DEB...@portal.ca>, on 06/06/99
at 06:18 PM, Kevin Chu <ke...@portal.ca> said:
>cand...@mediaone.net wrote:
>> Just FYI, heat dissipates readily from solid objects, especially THIN
>> solid onjects with edges.
>Just FYI, I haven't done much heatsink design but this doesn't jive with
>what I know.
>Kevin
cand...@mediaone.net
looked at the radiator in your automobile? It is made of metal. It is
thin with lots of edges. Why? Because metal is an excellent conductor of
MANY energy forms INCLUDING heat, electricity, magnetism (closely related
to electricity, of course), etc. Conductors accept high doses of energy
and pass them off nearly as quickly.
Kevin, I am sorry if I am coming off, or came off as a total jerk. I
think I probably am. I'm tired, shouldn't even be posting right now. I
am supposed to be studying... :/ ...anyway, in the end, I think it
doesn't really matter if you are right or I am right. Teflon CAN be
dangerous. But any cooking with oils, high heat, any chance of emitting
thick smoke is dangerous.
It is my PERSONAL opinion (and of course you don't need to share it,
every-
one is entitled to their own) that responsible use of your cooking equip-
ment is what is important. But I also don't want people telling me that
my personal opinion is WRONG. Like I said before, we all face dangers
that we could avoid every day of our lives, it is called LIVING. We are
responsible for our own lives and the lives of those around us. There is
no SURITY in life except that we will all die -- either from disease, at
the hands of another, or from some sad, avoidable accident.
Frederick Wilson
said it would soften and begin to loos definition along sharp edges and
angles. No one made anything up. You are the one who tried doing an
experioment without even the most rudimentary of equipment and tried to
pass it off as valid. Why don't you try that experiment in your physics
lab and see if you get anything other than laughed at.
Yes look up the melting point of aluminum. then look at the chemical
composition of cook wear. You will discover (surprise surprise, that it
is NOT pure aluminum. Various aluminum alloys melt anywhere from 450F
to well over 2000F.
You want to try an experiment then get the proper equipment. tryoing to
measure the surface temperature of a metal with an oven thermometer is
something I might expect from a 5th grader. It is certainly not
something I would expect from someone in college.
The fact is that you are the one who doesn't have a clue what you are
talking about. You seem to think that because you read something
somewhere it is the end all and be all of the information. well like
the mnine safety lamp you are ignorant and unwilling to learn any
different. try actually researching something before posting your
childish experiments in the future.
BTW, I said I was a retired Marine Inspector and Firefighting
instructor. Now lets try to understan that . I am not a mining
engineer, never said I was. You are an unretired fool however.
Frederick Wilson
>
> Do you have a reading comprehension problem?
>
>
It seems you the one with a comprehension problem. You are ignorant of
even the most basic of the basics of thermodynamics.
Frederick Wilson
the pan may have been hotter than
> what the thermometer read.
>
> Kevin
Had he been using a surface probe, you would be right. But an oven
thermometer is not designed to reed surface temperatures. It simpley
isn't meant to have the case heated from a single point via conduction
from a metal object. Most inexpensive oven thermometers are bimetal
type and the differential heating that would result from placing it in a
pan would mean that the temperature reading would be wildly off. A oven
thermometer is designed to be evenly heated by the air in the oven.
that allow the metals to expand evenly and the gauge to register an
accurate temperature. By heating it unevenly you have no way to
determin what effect it is having on the temperature reading.
A simple experiment. (even people at famous universities should be able
to accomplish this without more than one assistant) The temperature at
which most paper burns is 450F (or 451F if you want to be in keeping
with a certain novel) Put a metal pan on the stove on medium heat for
20-30 seconds. Lay a piece of paper in the bottom of the pan. Make sure
it is in contact with the pan. If the temperatures were anything
approaching what was stated the paper should brown, rapidly char and
probably burst into flames in a very short period of time.
Kevin Chu
> Had he been using a surface probe, you would be right. But an oven
> thermometer is not designed to reed surface temperatures. It simpley
In all honesty, I have no idea what an oven thermometer is. :) I
know there's a probe thing you stick into a hunk of meat, but I don't
know what it's called. (And I'm unlikely to, being mostly
vegetarian.) At work we use mostly type k thermocouples, sometimes
with some thermal compound or waterglass/fuller's earth.
Since we're using these things in switching power supplies (sometimes
described as the ultimate source of EMI), we sometimes (if we're
lucky/unlucky) get wacko results because of the EMI. For example, I
remember one inductor that happened to be ten times as hot as the
centre of the sun. :) Usually it can be fiddled to make it work
though.
Kevin Chu
> Alright, my friend, let us try this. Have you ever seen the radiator
> glued to the top of some CPU chips? Can you describe their appearance for
> me? Can you describe what they are made of?
It's an aluminum heatsink with fins, sometimes with a fan stuck on
them. The better fans have ball bearings instead of sleeve bearings.
The interface (if any) to the chip is usually a piece of silpad which
intelligent people chuck out and replace with thermal compound. The
interface increases the surface-area contact between the chip and the
sink. Optimally the sink will be black, because black radiates heat
better. (I don't remember why, but it's true and contrary to the
obvious observation that if you get into a black car that has been
sitting in the sun.... Something about black-box theory.) The fans
usually have brushless dc motors in them meaning the blades spin
freely and have permanent magnets attached to the spinning part while
a small inverter uses electromagnets to create a spinning
electromagnetic field to cause the blades to rotate.
> I'll follow my previous questions with the following: Have you ever
> looked at the radiator in your automobile? It is made of metal. It is
> thin with lots of edges. Why? Because metal is an excellent conductor of
> MANY energy forms INCLUDING heat, electricity, magnetism (closely related
> to electricity, of course), etc. Conductors accept high doses of energy
> and pass them off nearly as quickly.
This will be the last tech question I answer. I'm a technologist with
work experience in power electronics. If it matters. I know very few
people who don't build their own computers -- i.e. nobody buys
computers, they buy parts. I don't use PTFE-coated cookware.
It's the surface area that matters. The radiator is complex to
increase the surface area between it and the surrounding air. The
idea of the radiator is to lower the temperature of the coolant. The
radiator being made of metal allows it to conduct heat energy from the
coolant (antifreeze-water mixture that flows between the engine block
and the radiator as a mechanism to regulate engine temperature) to the
surrounding air better than it would be able to if it didn't conduct
as well. But, that is heat energy passing THROUGH the radiator
material -- NOT from the radiator to the air. All the little channels
and fins are to increase the surface area of the radiator. They also
increase the surface-area contact with the coolant -- another surface
area that we intend to be great. Which reminds me, I need to work on
my radiator this week. To dissipate heat to the surrounding air, we
need surface area. Hence you see things like car stereo amps with
fins. (The fins don't mean the amps are powerful, it just means they
can dissipate a lot of heat. Which may mean only that the amps are
inefficient.) To conduct heat (a different issue), we make sure we
use a conducting material.
Nature puts these concepts to work, through natural selection. When a
bird wants to cool off, it holds its wings away from its body and
holds its feathers close to its body. It increases its surface area.
When a bird wants to stay warm, it fluffs up and holds its wings to
its body, and holds its head close to its body and lifts up one foot.
It decreases its surface area. People who live in Kenya are lanky.
People who live in frozen areas are sturdier. Notice their
surface-area-to-mass ratios. Etc.. You can see this trend in other
species too.
Depending on the mass of the cookware and its shape, and the
temperature of the heating element, and the surface area between them,
I can see at least parts of a piece of cookware reaching high
temperatures quickly. If the cookware's metal conducts heat through
itself more quickly than the heating element supplies it, the heat
will be carried e.g. up the sides of the pot, but eventually the
heating element will supply heat faster than the (empty) pot can
dissipate it to the surrounding air, and the pot will rise in
temperature. If the cookware's metal conducts heat more slowly than
the heating element provides it (and dissipates it to the air more
slowly than the element provides it), the bottom of the pot will heat
much faster. (As an analogy, think of Kirchoff's current laws from
electronics. It's been a while, I think that's how you spell his
name.) Either way, there will be a temperature gradient through the
metal, with the hottest part right by the heating element, and the
coolest parts furthest away (depending on the shape and how it
dissipates etc.). Seeing as I always cook with low temperatures and
I'm always at the stove when I'm cooking, and I don't have PTFE-coated
cookware, I doubt I'll ever have a "my birds died from PTFE
outgassing" story to tell. But, I do think they should stick warning
labels on nonstick cookware.
cand...@mediaone.net
points are excellent. And you are also right that we are straying.
I'll give in and admint you've won this argument. :)
Mike
In <375B6227...@portal.ca>, on 06/06/99
>cand...@mediaone.net wrote:
>Kevin
I R A Aggie
<375B4259...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
+ thermodynamics.
Don't use such big words, you're scaring people...
James - and its been 15 years since I last had an engineering thermo course,
so I have vague memories of Carnot and his cycle...
I R A Aggie
<375B5A0F...@portal.ca> wrote:
+ remember one inductor that happened to be ten times as hot as the
+ centre of the sun. :)
<blink><blink>And you lived to tell about it?? aren't you glad there
wasn't any Teflon [tm, etc] around, or you would have breathed in the
fumes!!!
James - add as many ;) as necessary...
I R A Aggie
<cand...@mediaone.net>, in
<375b2816$1$pnaqvnmbb$mr2...@news.ne.mediaone.net> wrote:
+ Alright, my friend, let us try this. Have you ever seen the radiator
+ glued to the top of some CPU chips? Can you describe their appearance for
+ me? Can you describe what they are made of?
Lots of fins, either as rows or as a grid, depending on design. And, yes,
they're made of metal, which is an excellent *conductor* of heat.
As to why there are lots of fins, well, heat transfer from the metal
to the atmosphere is a function of the surface area (and also the air
speed, thus often you'll find a fan involved). More fins == more
surface area == more heat transfer -> atmosphere.
James
I R A Aggie
<375B6227...@portal.ca> wrote:
+ sink. Optimally the sink will be black, because black radiates heat
+ better.
Ummm...no...an object radiates at its temperature, which is why most
things on earth radiate heat.
+ (I don't remember why, but it's true and contrary to the
+ obvious observation that if you get into a black car that has been
+ sitting in the sun.... Something about black-box theory.)
*groan* I'm no fan of radiation theory, but...
*black* is an excellent absorber of incoming solar radiation.
*silver* is an excellent reflector of incoming solar radiation.
Colors are colors because the object is selectively absorbing certain
bandwidth, and reflecting others. It is the reflected light that we
perceive as "color".
This is "black body" theory -- Plank's law, if my memory is correct.
But I suppose one could consider it a "black box". I do. :) Or
perhaps you're confusing it with the box that houses Schroedenger's
Cat [and a radiation source].
You do know your fans, tho.
+ It's the surface area that matters.
And your heat transfer...
+ Which reminds me, I need to work on my radiator this week.
I should replace my coolant, its been a while...
+ outgassing" story to tell. But, I do think they should stick warning
+ labels on nonstick cookware.
Ah, but could you get the labels off?
James - if you're worried about PTFE outgassing, I'd recommend cast iron...
Barbara C.
@assets.wharton.upenn.edu <@assets.wharton.upenn.edu> wrote in >Yes, a
university, which is ranked in the top 10 in the USA, and for some
>departments, one of the best, if not the best, on this planet. >
FYI: you shouldn't try to smear your credentials all over the place if they
are not valid. I could see if you said you were an engineer, physicist,
organometallic chemist.....but a business major? Maybe you took some
undergrad classes somewhere, but please! Stick to the finances, your
experiment just doesn't jive here; the people that replied to you really
know what they are talking about.
Just 2 cents from an MS Chemistry grad with loyalties to Cornell........
To be on topic, I like birds a he**uva lot more than science!!
Kevin Chu
> + outgassing" story to tell. But, I do think they should stick warning
> + labels on nonstick cookware.
>
> Ah, but could you get the labels off?
:)
Kellie
> with us. They just get re hashed over and over again by people who have
> no clue but once they hear something will spend years re telling it.
So true! Accidents DO happen, but you can't live in a bubble. Lethal
accidents happen to humans, too, but we don't outlaw cars, bathtubs or
baseball- we have to understand that there is a certain amount of risk that
comes with living and that with a reasonable amount of care it's unlikely
to happen to us.
--
Kellie, who has in the past warned of Teflon dangers and the concern over
Febreze. Then I mellowed out.
Kellie
Paranoia is over rated.
--
Kellie
Kellie
Mary wrote:
> Hey Fred, you missed one. Avocado poisoning. I'm sure you recall long
> threads on this from time to time over the years.
>
> Great info! Better save this msg the topic will come up again soon!
>
> --
> Mary Arnold
> Sparky's Home Page "www.neta.com/~tarnold/sparky.html"
>
> Frederick Wilson <f...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:375701B2...@ix.netcom.com...
> > parrot...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > >
> > > It really worries me that people are saying Teflon is safe to use as
> > > long as you don't overheat it. Almost all Teflon/nonstick cookware (this
> > > includes Silverstone) deaths I've personally known about were due to a
> > > moment's inattention, a phone call, a door bell...a timer not going
> > > off...always HUMAN error.
> >
> > He asked for specifics, not emotion. You can also find plenty of horror
> > stories of drownings, mutilations, crushings, and a wide variety of
> > poisoning from many sources. the only way anyone can be 100% sure they
> > will never harm their bird through an accident is to NEVER have a bird.
> > Off the top of my head the ways birds have died, or were seriously
> > injured through accident on the various lists I'm on:
> >
> > Crushing - several - includes stepping on, closing door on, droping
> > something on, kid sitting on, dog laying on, siting grocies on, and a
> > number of birds crushed while sleeping with owners.
> >
> > Poisonings - other than PTFE - includes scented candles, cleaning
> > solvent, bleach/ammonia cleaners being accidently mixed, toxic plants,
> > furniture polish, brake fluid, glue.
> >
> > Mutilations - Vacuum cleaner, lawn mower, weed eater, sewing machine,
> > knives
> >
> > Drownings - toilets, sincs, water glass, coffee cup, bath tub, wading
> > pool, ornamental fountain, washing machine.
> >
> > Misc - boiling water, open oven, electric stove burner, gas stove
> > burner, malfunctioning gas stove, malfunctioning furnace, cloths dryer,
> > electrical cords, windows, mirrors, ropes, strings, various toys
> >
> > In fact I have only heard of a single verified case of teflon poisoning
> > in the past two years and a couple of "consistant with" cases. Teflon
> > is a known, and very deadly, poison under certain conditions but the
> > hysteria that surrounds it among bird people appears to be largly
> > emotional and unjustified. Reasonable caution is the key. Just as in
> > any other aspect of bird care it is important to be aware of what you
> > are doing whenever the birds are in a position to get into ANYTHING, or
> > be harmed, and to take precautions to protect them.
> >
> >
> > --
> > TA
> > FAW
> >
> > "Hope is a feathered thing that perches on the soul" E. Dickenson
> >
> > Visit our web page at
> > http://pweb.netcom.com/~faw/Geobass/plot.html
--
Kellie
Kellie
> on a bird, doesn't mean you should ignore the PTFE danger.
Kevin, I agree, but I think most of us are just saying that we don't have
to go back to cooking in a pit in the back yard. Just turn the stove off
if you're through with it, don't burn your food, and you're probably going
to be fine. If you tend to burn stuff use a good loud timer, don't leave
the kitchen while cooking, or don't use Teflon.
--
Kellie
Kellie
above 300. I'm trying to convince my husband that this means I should never
cook.
CricketRAH wrote:
> hahahahah! Alex, you made my DAY!!! You just described my husband's form for
> cooking!!! THAT is why I tossed my teflon, HE revved up the omelet pan and
> killed my teil!
>
> >From: Alex...@webtv.net (Alex
>
> >Unless you do all your cooking blow torch style
> >your pans are not going to hit 500 +.
--
Kellie
Kellie
> I could fill volumes with his cooking escapade! But I really like the "blow
> torch" description. Esp. funny since he uses one on his job too!
> Cricket
Did you see the episode of Tool Time where they did a segment on cooking for guys
and used a torch to make a grilled cheese sandwich?
--
Kellie
CricketRAH
Cricket
CricketRAH
Cricket
Dan Spencer
Overheated Teflon is *not* deadly to humans per the MSDS which is available
online. Despite what a certain whacko might say here, Teflon does not cause
SIDS.
Overheated Teflon will kill your birds, however.
Dan
george <geo...@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:7kkgea$47r$1...@ns3.umkc.edu...
> fact of the matter is, if your bird is killed by over-heated teflon, you
are
> in deep doo-doo anyway. The gas released by overheated teflon is very,
very
> dangerous to all living things and will kill and poison youas well as any
> pets.
>
>
>
Mamabird
labels, follow directions, exercise caution and use common sense...
--
Mama
Visit "Mamabird's Nest" at http://members.tripod.com/~iluvbirds/
To email reply: Change nest to net.
"Bye bye. I'll be back!" Meggie, Hahn's Macaw
---
Mike
:)
Mike
Alan Gabriel
--
Alan
Remove `nojunk.` to reply
email: al...@nojunk.gabrielac.freeserve.co.uk
Mamabird <mama...@suwanneevalley.nest> wrote in message
news:5brb3.1418$cO1....@eagle.america.net...
Sue Delaney
good cook eihter. if i can mess up a microwave dinner, i am sure i could
overheat teflon! :)
Mary
sure it overheating, leave the kitchen for awhile. When the smoke detector
goes off, you'll know it's overheated. :-)
--
Mary Arnold
Sparky's Home Page "www.neta.com/~tarnold/sparky.html"
Sue Delaney <ferret...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:7ks4uv$f85$1...@birch.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Mary
we all know what El Nino, in turn, was responsible for! :-)
--
Mary Arnold
Sparky's Home Page "www.neta.com/~tarnold/sparky.html"
Dan Spencer <dspe...@accessone.com> wrote in message
news:92996445...@news.remarQ.com...
> George,
>
> Overheated Teflon is *not* deadly to humans per the MSDS which is
available
> online. Despite what a certain whacko might say here, Teflon does not
cause
> SIDS.
>
> Overheated Teflon will kill your birds, however.
>
> Dan
>
Frederick Wilson
>
> SIDS????? Next we're gonna hear that overheated teflon caused El Nino.
--
TA
FAW
"Hope is a feathered thing that perches on the soul" E. Dickenson
Visit our web pages at:
http://pweb.netcom.com/~faw/Geobass/plot.html
And our photo gallery at:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=14203&Auth=false
Alex Clayton
------------------------------
Group: rec.pets.birds Date: Thu, Jun 24, 1999, 3:29pm From:
tar...@neta.com (Mary) Re: Teflon: If you think you won't overheat it,
think again SIDS????? Next we're gonna hear that overheated teflon
caused El Nino. And we all know what El Nino, in turn, was responsible
for! :-) --
Mary Arnold
Sparky's Home Page "www.neta.com/~tarnold/sparky.html"
"The human race divides politically into those who want people to be
controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists
acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest
number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in
altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort."
>Lazarus Long
Mamabird
> >
> > SIDS????? Next we're gonna hear that overheated teflon caused El
Nino.
Frederick Wilson <f...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3772E140...@ix.netcom.com...
> It didn't??????
>
> --
> TA
> FAW
Nah, that's silly. But I heard it causes computer viruses....
Kellie
> we all know what El Nino, in turn, was responsible for! :-)
Um- it was responsible for Teflon, right??
--
Kellie
I R A Aggie
<3777B722...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
+ > SIDS????? Next we're gonna hear that overheated teflon caused El Nino. And
+ > we all know what El Nino, in turn, was responsible for! :-)
+
+ Um- it was responsible for Teflon, right??
I hate viscious circles...
James
cand...@mediaone.net
(I don't know if you meant it as viscous, but that is how I read it at
first... :) Get it? El Nino, a giant, viscous circle? Oh forget it.)
In <slrn7nfn11....@thepentagon.com>, on 06/28/99
>I hate viscious circles...
>James
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Zoo Keeper matthew 11:28-30
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