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Greek Wuta
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fan...@bellsouth.net
May 16, 2003, 12:59:55 AM5/16/03
to
I have been raising Greek Wuta (Voutes) for about eight years. I traded a friend in Minn. for some Cumelets. I have always been interested in sporting birds (flying/performing). The hawks and falcons have gotten so bad that my rollers seemed to be social support for the local falcon population. I didn't know the first thing about flying these Wuta. I soon realized they were a very different
variety of pigeon. I flew them with my Donek to a 3' x 3' wire cage with a 10" square hole in the top. I made a six inch collar around the hole inside the cage. That was to keep the birds once in the cage from flying out. They did ok but nothing spectacular. In 2002 I was introduced to a great guy by the name of Jean(john) Younan. He imported his birds from Greece. He also raised them as a boy in
Greece. He is a walking encyclopedia on the Wuta. There are hundreds of different names for the colors and their markings. He says it takes years to learn them all. For the most part they are Blue/brown bars. They come in every color but not many of the flying fanciers have the different them.
On my first visit he gave me a black cock and a brown bar cock. After seeing his birds I had the fever. You folks know what I mean. I would lay in bed at night and see his birds diving from out of sight, hear the wind whistling through their flights. I was addicted. With Jean's help I now have a nice stud of top performing Wuta. I don't know every thing about them. I am still learing the Greek
names for the different colors. I have been flying my present birds a year. They will fly up out of sight and return when they see their cue. They fly a tight pattern over the loft. They don't always kit, they aren't supposed to. They flock loosley with a lot of out flying. Their main purpose is their dive. They fold up like a falcon only they are a little faster diving than a Perrigrine falcon.
On a nice, clear day when the wind is light you see a contrail of feather plume as they get down to three or four hundred feet. I have been told that they go up to 1500 to 2000 meters when you lose sight of them. I don't know nor does anyone else as to how high they fly. I get a rush of excitement every time I witness them diving.
Greek Wuta aren't the best breeders in the world. A yearling is almost useless in the breeding loft. Even when paired up with a old bird they are unreliable breeders. I use the term of unreliable for birds that don't reach 75% hatching. Young cock birds will call a old hen away from her eggs. A young hen gets disinterested in eggs. There are exceptions to the above but generaly speaking they don't
breed very well untill the second or third season. When they do successfuly hatch eggs they are wonderful parents.
They are the smartest breed of bird I have ever had. I had homers that came home from hundreds of miles and it was exciting but nothing like these Wuta. With out no particular training my birds will when tapped on the shoulder and told to come out they do. They then sit anxiously waiting for the command of, "Fly Voute". They rise up and within minutes they are going out of sight. Then the
remaining birds in the loft are allowed to come out on the patio in front of the loft. When the flying birds see them they start diving and come all of the way down to the lofwith out pause. Then they are ushered into the loft with the command of, "Get back in the box". They go back to their shelves and patiently wait to be flown again in a hour or so. Some days I fly them several times. Once they
are flying good the wind is no big challenge for them.. I have flown mine in thirty-five to fouty mph winds. I don't let them go to high on cloudy days. They don't like to fly in the rain either. High humidity will have them panting after even a short flight. I only let them go up two or three hundred ft before I drop them on the hot days. If you want to fly something that the hawks and falcons
can't hardly touch (one in the last twelve months) then try these guys. They require time to train but the pleasure returned is greater than with any other performing breed I have ever tried. That includes homers, rollers, damascene, polish srebrniaks, pouters, cumulets, parlor tumblers, parlor rollers,egyptian swifts, dewlaps and lastly donek. I hope this answers some of your questions E-man.
cheers,
tonyf
variety of pigeon. I flew them with my Donek to a 3' x 3' wire cage with a 10" square hole in the top. I made a six inch collar around the hole inside the cage. That was to keep the birds once in the cage from flying out. They did ok but nothing spectacular. In 2002 I was introduced to a great guy by the name of Jean(john) Younan. He imported his birds from Greece. He also raised them as a boy in
Greece. He is a walking encyclopedia on the Wuta. There are hundreds of different names for the colors and their markings. He says it takes years to learn them all. For the most part they are Blue/brown bars. They come in every color but not many of the flying fanciers have the different them.
On my first visit he gave me a black cock and a brown bar cock. After seeing his birds I had the fever. You folks know what I mean. I would lay in bed at night and see his birds diving from out of sight, hear the wind whistling through their flights. I was addicted. With Jean's help I now have a nice stud of top performing Wuta. I don't know every thing about them. I am still learing the Greek
names for the different colors. I have been flying my present birds a year. They will fly up out of sight and return when they see their cue. They fly a tight pattern over the loft. They don't always kit, they aren't supposed to. They flock loosley with a lot of out flying. Their main purpose is their dive. They fold up like a falcon only they are a little faster diving than a Perrigrine falcon.
On a nice, clear day when the wind is light you see a contrail of feather plume as they get down to three or four hundred feet. I have been told that they go up to 1500 to 2000 meters when you lose sight of them. I don't know nor does anyone else as to how high they fly. I get a rush of excitement every time I witness them diving.
Greek Wuta aren't the best breeders in the world. A yearling is almost useless in the breeding loft. Even when paired up with a old bird they are unreliable breeders. I use the term of unreliable for birds that don't reach 75% hatching. Young cock birds will call a old hen away from her eggs. A young hen gets disinterested in eggs. There are exceptions to the above but generaly speaking they don't
breed very well untill the second or third season. When they do successfuly hatch eggs they are wonderful parents.
They are the smartest breed of bird I have ever had. I had homers that came home from hundreds of miles and it was exciting but nothing like these Wuta. With out no particular training my birds will when tapped on the shoulder and told to come out they do. They then sit anxiously waiting for the command of, "Fly Voute". They rise up and within minutes they are going out of sight. Then the
remaining birds in the loft are allowed to come out on the patio in front of the loft. When the flying birds see them they start diving and come all of the way down to the lofwith out pause. Then they are ushered into the loft with the command of, "Get back in the box". They go back to their shelves and patiently wait to be flown again in a hour or so. Some days I fly them several times. Once they
are flying good the wind is no big challenge for them.. I have flown mine in thirty-five to fouty mph winds. I don't let them go to high on cloudy days. They don't like to fly in the rain either. High humidity will have them panting after even a short flight. I only let them go up two or three hundred ft before I drop them on the hot days. If you want to fly something that the hawks and falcons
can't hardly touch (one in the last twelve months) then try these guys. They require time to train but the pleasure returned is greater than with any other performing breed I have ever tried. That includes homers, rollers, damascene, polish srebrniaks, pouters, cumulets, parlor tumblers, parlor rollers,egyptian swifts, dewlaps and lastly donek. I hope this answers some of your questions E-man.
cheers,
tonyf
E-Man
May 16, 2003, 7:24:11 AM5/16/03
to
Yo Tony,
thanks man. Excellent post.
Definitely gives me an idea of what they are about.
I am trying to "acquire" some more backyard space from the wife%^)
so I can have another kit box. You know how it is with rollers.
Ya gotta have 2 kits%^)
I can tell that the diving is breathtaking. I had a perigrine go after the
rollers not long ago, (see previous post) and the diving they did to get
away was awesome, but I'm sure not as fantastic as the Wuta. How big are
they compared to rollers?
What really sounds good too, is how efficient they get up and down. It seems
that the coopers (MY most dreaded enemy!) never has a chance to attack low
circling birds.
Well, if the wife alots me some more space, you KNOW I'm gonna hit you up
on where to get myself some Wutas! (Even the name is cool!%^)
E-Man
thanks man. Excellent post.
Definitely gives me an idea of what they are about.
I am trying to "acquire" some more backyard space from the wife%^)
so I can have another kit box. You know how it is with rollers.
Ya gotta have 2 kits%^)
I can tell that the diving is breathtaking. I had a perigrine go after the
rollers not long ago, (see previous post) and the diving they did to get
away was awesome, but I'm sure not as fantastic as the Wuta. How big are
they compared to rollers?
What really sounds good too, is how efficient they get up and down. It seems
that the coopers (MY most dreaded enemy!) never has a chance to attack low
circling birds.
Well, if the wife alots me some more space, you KNOW I'm gonna hit you up
on where to get myself some Wutas! (Even the name is cool!%^)
E-Man
Toyboxloft
May 16, 2003, 11:29:41 AM5/16/03
to
hello all, i have seen tony's birds fly they are awesome !! i also have had
wuta's and doneks they are really fun to fly !!
wuta's and doneks they are really fun to fly !!
Onelostsoulonefishbowl
May 23, 2003, 1:15:07 PM5/23/03
to
Excuse me for my ignorance, but what is a roller? Is it a type of bird?
Thanks!
onelostsoul
(trying to learn about this fascinating hobby you all seem to have)
Thanks!
onelostsoul
(trying to learn about this fascinating hobby you all seem to have)
<fan...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:92s8cv8bu7mh58ffk...@4ax.com...
> I have been raising Greek Wuta (Voutes) for about eight years. I traded a
friend in Minn. for some Cumelets. I have always been interested in sporting
birds (flying/performing). The hawks and falcons have gotten so bad that my
rollers seemed to be social support for the local falcon population. I
didn't know the first thing about flying these Wuta.
<cut>
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fan...@bellsouth.net
May 23, 2003, 11:08:05 PM5/23/03
to
A roller is a variety of pigeon that does a series of backwards somesaults while falling through the air. Think of looking at a pinwheel from the side as it is fall. The faster the spin the better the bird. Hey E-man this is where you can take it. My rollers are just a faint memory.
cheers,
tonyf
cheers,
tonyf
Onelostsoulonefishbowl
May 24, 2003, 7:18:38 PM5/24/03
to
Thanks for the info Tony, they sound amazing.
Why do the Rollers spin and fall? Is it to deter predators?
Why do the Rollers spin and fall? Is it to deter predators?
onelostsoul
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fan...@bellsouth.net
May 25, 2003, 12:09:28 PM5/25/03
to
Congradulations to you for asking the million dollar question. It is not realy known why they have these fits while in the air. Some say it is some sort of nervous fit. I tend to agree. Now if the animal protectionist will turn their heads away I will give a little insight on this phenominom. When I was a young boy my uncle would destroy sick, old or cull birds by dislocating the head from the
neck. It is quick and bloodless. When he would do this they would all without exception do the backwards spins just like a roller does. Which leads me to beleive that it is a nevous fit. Now remember I didn't say I condone his methods. Just remember that forty-five years ago animals didn't have rights, nor did they have human feelings applied to them. In a side note I have witnessed rollers do
the same barrel rolling dives that a Donek performs when trying to avoid the falcons. I tend to beleive that these arial perfomances are possesed by all flying pigeons. They are just more pronounced in some breeds. Somewhere along the line people decided to direct their breeding programs for these desired traits. I would also like to add that a roller that is caught by a preditor in the air is
usually caught at the end of a roll. That is why it is usually heard that the hawk gets the best bird. It is usually the deepest bird in the kit
(irregardless of color) that gets caught. The deeper spinning bird gives the predator more time to dive in, as the bird is unaware of the impending attack. There are more different types of arial performances than there is room to describe here. I hope this helps in understanding the roller. Mr. E-man is the resident roller flyer on this ng. He probably can give more insight than me. I would also
like to add that it is my beleif that controll of spin is a recessive in rollers. In my loft I never raised a bird out of a roll down that would stay in the air without rolling down to the ground by its' second birthday. As a matter of fact hold over kits and old bird kits are becoming more and more the exception rather than the rule.
cheers,
tonyf
neck. It is quick and bloodless. When he would do this they would all without exception do the backwards spins just like a roller does. Which leads me to beleive that it is a nevous fit. Now remember I didn't say I condone his methods. Just remember that forty-five years ago animals didn't have rights, nor did they have human feelings applied to them. In a side note I have witnessed rollers do
the same barrel rolling dives that a Donek performs when trying to avoid the falcons. I tend to beleive that these arial perfomances are possesed by all flying pigeons. They are just more pronounced in some breeds. Somewhere along the line people decided to direct their breeding programs for these desired traits. I would also like to add that a roller that is caught by a preditor in the air is
usually caught at the end of a roll. That is why it is usually heard that the hawk gets the best bird. It is usually the deepest bird in the kit
(irregardless of color) that gets caught. The deeper spinning bird gives the predator more time to dive in, as the bird is unaware of the impending attack. There are more different types of arial performances than there is room to describe here. I hope this helps in understanding the roller. Mr. E-man is the resident roller flyer on this ng. He probably can give more insight than me. I would also
like to add that it is my beleif that controll of spin is a recessive in rollers. In my loft I never raised a bird out of a roll down that would stay in the air without rolling down to the ground by its' second birthday. As a matter of fact hold over kits and old bird kits are becoming more and more the exception rather than the rule.
cheers,
tonyf
Onelostsoulonefishbowl
May 25, 2003, 3:40:29 PM5/25/03
to
Totally fascinating explanation of why the Rollers may roll - thanks Tony.
I take it the 'kit' is a group of flying birds.
I am still confused as to why and when they roll. Could you clarify a few
things please? Are they more likely to roll when threatened by predators and
do they all do this?
If not that, then the one in the deepest roll is more likely to be attacked
by a hawk as he is less aware of impending doom, so why roll - he is
obviously in a dangerous situation.
How close do they get to the ground before breaking out of a roll? Are you
saying the roll can be due to nerves and emotional upset?
I always believed that pigeons just covered buildings with slime and were
over friendly in Trafalgar Square - that's all. Now my eyes are being opened
wide to a complete new world thanks to this newsgroup.
I now look at this one plain old grey pigeon that frequents my garden with
renewed interest. Will he up and roll? Where does he live? Is he tame? Has
he got family?
Alas, there are no pigeon clubs in my UK city, it seems the likelihood of me
ever witnessing a Roller roll are nil.....
Unless someone here has a video clip they could email me pretty please? A
photograph maybe?
Many thanks again Tony,
I take it the 'kit' is a group of flying birds.
I am still confused as to why and when they roll. Could you clarify a few
things please? Are they more likely to roll when threatened by predators and
do they all do this?
If not that, then the one in the deepest roll is more likely to be attacked
by a hawk as he is less aware of impending doom, so why roll - he is
obviously in a dangerous situation.
How close do they get to the ground before breaking out of a roll? Are you
saying the roll can be due to nerves and emotional upset?
I always believed that pigeons just covered buildings with slime and were
over friendly in Trafalgar Square - that's all. Now my eyes are being opened
wide to a complete new world thanks to this newsgroup.
I now look at this one plain old grey pigeon that frequents my garden with
renewed interest. Will he up and roll? Where does he live? Is he tame? Has
he got family?
Alas, there are no pigeon clubs in my UK city, it seems the likelihood of me
ever witnessing a Roller roll are nil.....
Unless someone here has a video clip they could email me pretty please? A
photograph maybe?
Many thanks again Tony,
onelostsoul
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E-Man
May 27, 2003, 9:30:17 AM5/27/03
to
Hi everyone,
all great questions and answers!%^)
The Birmingham Roller in the U.S. originally came from Birmingham England,
which is STILL a hotbed of roller flyers.
As a kid, the first reason I heard for the roll was that it was an evasive
tactic by the bird to avoid hawks. Then, as I got older, it was considered
a fit like epilepsy. But all epilepsy I ever saw, was involuntary. But I saw
my own birds do it "when they felt like it." So that ruled out a siezure,
for me anyway. Most roller flyers now call it a "reflex arc." It can be
triggered by another bird rolling next to it, or just the shear exuberance
of the act of rolling itself. some do it better than others. Some are
actually afraid of the feeling, so shut it off. Some get into the roll, and
just can't shut it off and roll down. What you try to get with your breeding
is a happy middle ground, where you end up with birds that are "in control"
of the roll, can roll deep but always come out of it when they should, and
can roll short if there is not enough room underneath them.
Rollers, like all pigeons, are flocking birds. Flocking birds have a genetic
'closeness' that helps them fly in unison. You ever see those flocks of
starlings that seem to change direction at exactly the same time? Rollers are
sorta the same, with the extra added arial performance of rolling. This too,
can happen in unison. You get better unison performance when the birds in the
kit basically come from the same family of birds.
They basically fly a figure eight type pattern over their loft, then roll
in groups just as the kit is getting ready to make a left or right turn.
If you watch your birds flying long enough, you will be able to tell when they
are getting ready to roll.
I have had the hawks get "the Best" roller, but not because he was surprised
by the attack, mid-roll. I have NEVER had a hawk get one during a roll.
If the kit has spotted the hawk, all rolling stops, (for birds in control,
anyway.) and the kit moves as one to evade. Hawks, (not perigrines) can't get
much attacking a whole kit. They need to single one out, where they can chase
in earnest. And here in lies the "getting the best bird." Deep birds can
make themselves an "individual" by rolling deep by themselves, putting them
in the sky 'alone' long enough to get attacked. A good kit of rollers draw
alot of attention to themselves while circling and rolling, and can be seen
by hawks more than a mile away. And different hawks have different styles of
hunting. The perigrine LIKES to attack a whole kit. Stoop on it from above,
and just ripp a talon thru any bird within reach. Coopers and sharpies like
to try and get them down low, taking off and landing, where pigeons are their
slowest.
Having said that thou, I HAVE seen good spinners get taken while spinning.
And this usually happens while they are flying just above the trees, or
where a hawk can sit and not be seen, then pop out at them.
There is more........much much more.............but I have to work right now!%^)
E-Man
all great questions and answers!%^)
The Birmingham Roller in the U.S. originally came from Birmingham England,
which is STILL a hotbed of roller flyers.
As a kid, the first reason I heard for the roll was that it was an evasive
tactic by the bird to avoid hawks. Then, as I got older, it was considered
a fit like epilepsy. But all epilepsy I ever saw, was involuntary. But I saw
my own birds do it "when they felt like it." So that ruled out a siezure,
for me anyway. Most roller flyers now call it a "reflex arc." It can be
triggered by another bird rolling next to it, or just the shear exuberance
of the act of rolling itself. some do it better than others. Some are
actually afraid of the feeling, so shut it off. Some get into the roll, and
just can't shut it off and roll down. What you try to get with your breeding
is a happy middle ground, where you end up with birds that are "in control"
of the roll, can roll deep but always come out of it when they should, and
can roll short if there is not enough room underneath them.
Rollers, like all pigeons, are flocking birds. Flocking birds have a genetic
'closeness' that helps them fly in unison. You ever see those flocks of
starlings that seem to change direction at exactly the same time? Rollers are
sorta the same, with the extra added arial performance of rolling. This too,
can happen in unison. You get better unison performance when the birds in the
kit basically come from the same family of birds.
They basically fly a figure eight type pattern over their loft, then roll
in groups just as the kit is getting ready to make a left or right turn.
If you watch your birds flying long enough, you will be able to tell when they
are getting ready to roll.
I have had the hawks get "the Best" roller, but not because he was surprised
by the attack, mid-roll. I have NEVER had a hawk get one during a roll.
If the kit has spotted the hawk, all rolling stops, (for birds in control,
anyway.) and the kit moves as one to evade. Hawks, (not perigrines) can't get
much attacking a whole kit. They need to single one out, where they can chase
in earnest. And here in lies the "getting the best bird." Deep birds can
make themselves an "individual" by rolling deep by themselves, putting them
in the sky 'alone' long enough to get attacked. A good kit of rollers draw
alot of attention to themselves while circling and rolling, and can be seen
by hawks more than a mile away. And different hawks have different styles of
hunting. The perigrine LIKES to attack a whole kit. Stoop on it from above,
and just ripp a talon thru any bird within reach. Coopers and sharpies like
to try and get them down low, taking off and landing, where pigeons are their
slowest.
Having said that thou, I HAVE seen good spinners get taken while spinning.
And this usually happens while they are flying just above the trees, or
where a hawk can sit and not be seen, then pop out at them.
There is more........much much more.............but I have to work right now!%^)
E-Man
E-Man
May 27, 2003, 9:52:20 AM5/27/03
to
"Onelostsoulonefishbowl" <onelostsoul...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<h19Aa.575$Y34...@newsfep1-gui.server.ntli.net>...
> Totally fascinating explanation of why the Rollers may roll - thanks Tony.
> I take it the 'kit' is a group of flying birds.
> I am still confused as to why and when they roll. Could you clarify a few
> things please? Are they more likely to roll when threatened by predators and
> do they all do this?
> If not that, then the one in the deepest roll is more likely to be attacked
> by a hawk as he is less aware of impending doom, so why roll - he is
> obviously in a dangerous situation.
> How close do they get to the ground before breaking out of a roll? Are you
> saying the roll can be due to nerves and emotional upset?
> I always believed that pigeons just covered buildings with slime and were
> over friendly in Trafalgar Square - that's all. Now my eyes are being opened
> wide to a complete new world thanks to this newsgroup.
> I now look at this one plain old grey pigeon that frequents my garden with
> renewed interest. Will he up and roll? Where does he live? Is he tame? Has
> he got family?
> Alas, there are no pigeon clubs in my UK city, it seems the likelihood of me
> ever witnessing a Roller roll are nil.....
> Unless someone here has a video clip they could email me pretty please? A
> photograph maybe?
> Many thanks again Tony,
>
> onelostsoul
> Totally fascinating explanation of why the Rollers may roll - thanks Tony.
> I take it the 'kit' is a group of flying birds.
> I am still confused as to why and when they roll. Could you clarify a few
> things please? Are they more likely to roll when threatened by predators and
> do they all do this?
> If not that, then the one in the deepest roll is more likely to be attacked
> by a hawk as he is less aware of impending doom, so why roll - he is
> obviously in a dangerous situation.
> How close do they get to the ground before breaking out of a roll? Are you
> saying the roll can be due to nerves and emotional upset?
> I always believed that pigeons just covered buildings with slime and were
> over friendly in Trafalgar Square - that's all. Now my eyes are being opened
> wide to a complete new world thanks to this newsgroup.
> I now look at this one plain old grey pigeon that frequents my garden with
> renewed interest. Will he up and roll? Where does he live? Is he tame? Has
> he got family?
> Alas, there are no pigeon clubs in my UK city, it seems the likelihood of me
> ever witnessing a Roller roll are nil.....
> Unless someone here has a video clip they could email me pretty please? A
> photograph maybe?
> Many thanks again Tony,
>
> onelostsoul
Onelostsoul,
if you are in the UK, there are plenty of roller flyers out there. Keep
asking around, or do an internet search.
It is in their genes to roll, and they seem to do it for the fun of it.
A 20 bird kit of good rollers will probably give you a half-turn or
better (10 or more rolling at once) every 60-90 seconds, with smaller turns
(5 or less birds) happening throughout.
This is called frequency. If you have deep birds, you basically want them to
roll 3-4 times a minute. When we have competitions, the birds are scored for
20 minutes. So we train them to fly for 30 minutes before returning to the loft.
Usually, the more you feed, the longer they fly. WHAT you feed, and the
weather conditions, determine how high they fly.
Alas, video clips are hard to come by. Most of us only have 'home' video
cameras, which requires you to stand under the birds while they fly.
Because of their flying patterns, they make you 'spin around' underneath them,
causing your video to look like it was shot by an idiot.%^)
The only expert slow-motion video I ever saw on rollers, was only about 30
seconds, of a show I saw on Discovery, narrated by David Attenburough, (sp?)
called "The History of Pigeons." It was an excellent show, but like I said,
they only did about 30 seconds on rollers.
E-Man
Toyboxloft
May 27, 2003, 5:18:34 PM5/27/03
to
i have roller books for sale on the board also !!
Robin Russell
May 28, 2003, 7:34:59 PM5/28/03
to
Rollers are pigeons with a genetic anomoly which causes them to flip
backwards during flight at odd intervals.(this is exactly the same motion as
a pigeon which has just had it's head cut off). Some breeds are slectively
bred to such an extent that they cannot fly at all---Parlor Tumblers which
just flip one to three times and Parlor Rollers which may roll on the ground
for several meters.
backwards during flight at odd intervals.(this is exactly the same motion as
a pigeon which has just had it's head cut off). Some breeds are slectively
bred to such an extent that they cannot fly at all---Parlor Tumblers which
just flip one to three times and Parlor Rollers which may roll on the ground
for several meters.
Also there is a genus of wild bird unrelated to pigeons which is known as
roller also.
"Onelostsoulonefishbowl" <onelostsoul...@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:yGsza.1275$nU....@newsfep1-gui.server.ntli.net...
antido...@gmail.com
Nov 9, 2014, 3:26:37 AM11/9/14
to
hello i want to buy 1 team of wuta but i living in turkey istanbul what i must do.
saqee...@gmail.com
Jun 29, 2015, 12:08:47 PM6/29/15
to
Hi i want to buy also wuta greek pigeons . But i stay in morocco
Please how i do to buy it ?
This is my email : azouaou...@outlook.com
Please how i do to buy it ?
This is my email : azouaou...@outlook.com
husainmo...@gmail.com
Aug 6, 2018, 4:55:38 PM8/6/18
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Sir do you have any wutas for sale, serious buyer and a fancier waiting to get these for long
Pls help out
Pls help out
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