Re: Instant Review: Petsmart Training Class
TheAmazing...@mail.com
Ronna wrote:
> Most Petsmart trainers, unfortunetly, have little to
> no experience teaching classes.
That so? We got EXXXPERT shock and pronged spiked pinch
choke collar trainers employed at pestmart, they just
ain't supposed to HURT dogs on store pupperty, ronna.
Michael A. Ball wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 02:54:31 GMT, Kayla <af...@hotmails.com> wrote:
>
> >My 11 month old sheltie has become very nervous. Taking her on the
> >leash is a nightmare. ... Any suggestions would be appreciated.
kayla is a dog abusing mental case like the rest of the dog abusers who
post here abHOWETS, ronna. The Amazing Puppy Wizard cites their POSTED
CASE HISTORIES as EVIDENCE of cruelty and insanity, ronna.
> I've been hoping someone with more wisdom would comment on your
> situation.
Barring THAT, michael will offer some IDIOCY.
> don't have and great advice,
What else would we EXXXPECT from a crittre murdering mental case?
> but I do think you cited part of the problem: a change in what
> the dog was exposed to, during the winter.
THAT'S INSANE.
> Most of us go through life thinking that a dog's personality is
shaped
> by what it has experienced,
Oh? Like HOWE it was when michael MURDERED Symphony for bein deaf...
> what has been done to it.
Like HOWE when michael swerves his car HOWETA the way
of an on coming kat, only to strike IT with his back wheels.
> But someone pointed out to me that their personality is also
> shaped by what they have not experienced,
Like bein a SERIAL CRITTER MURDERER, like michael ball.
> but what hasn't been done to/for them.
That so? What do you suppose makes serial critter murderers like
michael?
> At this point, it seems like anyone's guess as to why your
> dog went to the barn--and stayed there.
The dog is ABUSED.
> I do wonder if there is any reason why he might consider
> the barn a refuge.
On accHOWENT of he DON'T TRUST his ABUSERS.
> If not, I think there might be an increased chance that he chased
> something. Maybe the chase ended in a safe place, or in a place so
> frightening that it immobilized him. I can only guess.
That's IDIOCY. The dog is AFRAID of bein ABUSED.
> Yes, some Shelties are timid.
Only if they're ABUSED.
> Sheltie Laddy was turned in as a bite case, but [because of my track
record]
michael HURTS INTIMIDATES and MURDERS INNOCENT CRITTERS.
> the shelter allowed me to adopt him.
The shelter michael MURDERS dogs for...
> That was in September '04. He now sleeps next to me, comes when
> called and runs away from only 25% of sounds.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHHAAAAA!!!
> Considering that it took a month to get him to enter the same room as
> me and Sheltie Angus, I think Laddy has made remarkable progress.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAHHAHAAAAA!!!
From: Eric
To: jho...@bellsouth.net
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 7:54 AM
Subject: just checking in..
Jerry!
You helped me with my pal Dundee about a year ago
regarding submissive peeing. Just wanted to let you
know he's doing great- he was "cured" in about 2 days
using your techniques!
He has since become the "smartest dog in the world"!
Once I stopped thinking like a human and got inside his
head, I can teach him ANYTHING, usually in a matter
of minutes. Makes me look like an expert dog-trainer.
I rescued two strays last week, cleaned 'em up, wormed
'em, and am getting them their shots. Time to get inside
their heads and teach them to teach themselves how to
be good dogs!
Instead of feeling like "training" is a chore, I look forward
to working with these guys a couple times a day...
Although I don't follow your instructions "to a T", I learned
from you to "think like a dog" and stimulate their brain rather
than beating ass or pinching, or any of that nonsense.
I know damn well I would NOT be loyal to someone
who beat MY ass lol!
Well, just wanted to thank you for rattling the bushes
out there and teaching folks the RIGHT way to "train" dogs.
A horseman friend of mine uses very similar techniques in
training his horses- he calls it "natural horsemanship". He
is hated by nearly all the local "trainers" yet somehow he
repeatedly wins at every show he attends. He rarely shows
any more, but goes now and then to rub their noses in it
(pun intended)... Too cool....
Have a great holiday season and keep up the good work!
Eric , Dundee, Sammy, and Maynard
==========================
Subject: Re: Dog will not listen to anyone but me!
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 11:33:36 -0500
Message-ID: uim43blqq1h...@corp.supernews.com
Okay, I gotta speak up here... We've been using Jerry's
methods with our dog. We had the same problem as the
original poster has with Buzz. One day working with the
family pack exercise and practicing the recall command
with the family and she'll now go out with hubby and
daughter instead of needing me to reassure her or even
refusing to go with anyone but me.
I really urge you, regardless of the negative things you
might hear about Jerry & Wits' End here, to try the method
and *judge the results for yourself*.
Let's see what other areas she's improved in... always
comes when called, not chewing stuff even if we leave
it laying around, "re"housebroken after long shelter stay,
walks perfectly on leash, doesn't try to steal food from
our plates or beg... probably a few more things I'm
forgetting to mention. *(Yeah, the kats lay off the koi
and don't wander. jh).
That's in about a week's time.
Her overall demeanor has changed. When we brought her
home she was very untrusting and ultra-submissive (except
with her area/toys where she was possessive and nippy).
She had been abused and beaten by previous owners,
then she was in a shelter for months. They (most of them)
wanted to give up and kill her Now she's gained confidence
and trust with us. Last night was another big breakthrough
(in my eyes). She barked! Big deal, she barked just once
when she heard the front door. Great!
Anyway, you'll be told lots of nasty stuff about Jerry or that
the Wits' End manual is culled from other sources. In my
opinion, even if it is, it takes only the good stuff and leaves
out the bad. Works for me.
(And I suppose I gotta say this... I don't know Jerry personally.
I've emailed him and instant messaged him. I have not bought a
"Doggy Do Right". He's offered help for free.)
Ms. Mick Owen Crneckiy
http://www.crneckiy.com & http://tarot.crneckiy.com
E-mail & MSN Messenger: m...@crneckiy.com
AIM & Yahoo!: MickCrneckiy ~ ICQ: 72461227
======================
> He's even beginning to wag his tail at me.
Tail wagging is a SYMPTOM of STRESS...
> That's a real treat from a dog that used to just stand there.
INDEED?
We LOVE submissive dogs, don't we!
> It recently occurred to me that Laddy progress had reached a
standstill.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHHAAAAAA!!!
> Since I couldn't be any more gentle,
Well, being GENTLE and a MURDERER are incompatible...
and of curse, bribery INCREASES fears. Well, what else
is there to know abHOWET your SUCCESS, michael?
> I decided to go the other way.
You mean you hurt and intimidated your dog someMOORE.
> I massage him harder, stand up with him more often {he's only 16
pounds}
> and pat him on the butt more forcefully. It is working: he has
figured
> out that rough can be fun and certainly doesn't always mean danger.
That's IDIOCY.
> We even have little tugs of war. I allow him to win some of them; so,
it
> will build his self confidence.
That's INSANE.
> FYI, Laddy is not a puppy, but has never shown the slightest sign of
aggression.
NOT YET... "Sheltie Laddy was turned in as a bite case,"
> His partner, Angus, is now 14 months and twice the size.
> When we're outside they chase each other and Laddy is nearly
fearless!
michael means he's AGGRESSIVE, a RESULT of FEAR.
> He can easily out run Angus. My point is that fear is different,
Not at all.
> in different setting.
Blame the neighborhood... it's called state conditioned learnin.
> Laddy still recoils from strangers--and from me :-(
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAHHAHAAAAA!!!
> My non-profession recommendation is to continue taking your dog for
> walks. Gradual and moderate exposure to frightening things will
enable
> him to decide that those things aren't so frightening after all.
That so? Like michael's SUCCESS with Laddy, eh???
BWEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
> And in the meantime, rough house a little, play games he can win,
> praise him for any show of bravado.
Maybe in a month their dog will recoil when he sees his owner like
mikey's dog does?
> I hope this helps.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAHHAHAAAAA!!!
> Maybe it will open a door for you.
Yeah. Maybe The Amazing Puppy Wizard will QUOTE michael MURDERIN
inocent critters for just bein alive.
> Michael
>
> When I die, I want to go where dogs go!
We'll arragne that, michael. You'll have a welcomming committee of DEAD
DOGS and KATS you've MURDERED for just bein alive... like Symphony and
them DEAD KATS you like to run DHOWEN on the street.
> My best friend teaches at Petsmart,
"Birds of a feather. When you lie with pigs you'll awaken
stinkin like 'em," The Puppy Wizard's DADDY.
> but she is one in a million,
AS STATED... <{) : - ( >
> is a certified behaviorist and is fluent in choke chain
BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAHAHAHAHHAAAAA!!!
You mean your punk thug coward mental case pal knows HOWE to HURT dogs.
> and PR based training,
You mean BRIBERY WITHOLDING and AVOIDANCE, don't you.
> and has been teaching for almost 14 years...
You mean she been CHOKIN BRIBING and lockin dogs in boxes.
> but the rest of the Petsmarts in that area have trainers that
> know next to nothing about dog training,
You mean them bums ain't FLUENT at CHOKING dogs to train them?
> some don't even have dogs!
Do they KNOW HOWE to CHOKE DOGS, ronna? Or ain't they THAT EXXXPERT
yet?
> The ones that do can't even bring their own dogs into the store,
> due to behavioral problems.
Yeah... JUST LIKE your punk thug coward lying dog abusing mental
case pal leah roberts, REMEMBER, ronna?
> Says alot right there.
Sez MOORE for their EMPLOYER, BigB at CANINE ACTION TRAINING...
formerly of pestmart inc... BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAAAAA!!!
Her own dog bit her five times to boot!
> At any rate, if you decide to stop taking the classes,
That'd be a WIZE idea.
> please get a refund and explain why.
You mean HOWE COME that the TRAINER didn't teach her to HURT her dog
pupperly...
> If everyone who ever dropped out of a Petsmart
> class did that, Petsmart might get a clue that
> their hiring procedures SUCK.
Their HIRING got NUTHIN to do with their INCOMPETENT INEFFECTIVE
METHODS.
> As it is now, all they care about is the money, and the fact
> that most people don't refund because they are too embarassed...
Perhaps you'll advise us HOWE to pupperly choke a dog to make IT
naturally want to do anything you ask, ronna?
From: c...@nctv.com
To: The Puppy Wizard
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 11:49 PM
Subject: Re: Neuter Question
> That's some pretty heavy shit, Jerry.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard calls 'm like HE sees 'm.
There ain't nuthin PERSONAL abHOWET it, so there's
no need to be OFFENDED, that'll only further CL-HOWED
your thinkin, cov.
After all, we're BOTH after THE SAME RESULT.
> Hope the vent made you feel better.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard wasn't VENTING,
cov, HE was simply pointing HOWET the
REALITY of your situation, cov.
> I did gain some things from your manual
That so? You musta MISSED the IMPORTANT parts
on accHOWENT of ALL behavior problems are
CAUSED BY MISHANDLING, not TESTICLES.
> and respect your opinions
BWEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!
The Amazing Puppy Wizard doesn't TEACH OPINIONS,
cov. The Amazing Puppy Wizard works within the
BHOWENDS of NATURAL LAW and SCIENCE, cov:
"The Methods, Principles, And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change,
Or They'd Not Be Scientific And Would Not Obtain
Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective Results
For All Handler's And All Dogs
In ALL Fields And Utilities,
ALL OVER THE WHOLE WILD WORLD,
NEARLY INSTANTLY,
As Taught In Your FREE Copy Of The Puppy Wizard's FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual,"
The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
> but the truth is,
The TRUTH is, you got NUTHIN to say to
The Amazing Puppy Wizard on accHOWENT
of EVERY THING HE SEZ is FACT and BACKED
UP IN WRITING.
> I don't have all the time to devote to this cause
You mean, pupperly handling training and raising
your dogs and children, cov? What's your hurry?
You got THE REST OF YOUR LIFE to work on it.
> when I have so many other causes in
> my life that require my time & attention.
MOORE important than the mental heelth
of your family and the life of your dog, cov?
> One area where we obviously don't agree
> is that you seem determined that animals
> can do no wrong -
Oh. What you mean is you need to DEFEND your
alleged RIGHT to HURT and INTIMIDATE your
dogs and children and you'll try to do likeWIZE
with your SP-HOWES if she'll let you get away
with it, you miserable coward.
Don't be OFFENDED at that, cov, it's NUTHIN
PERSONAL, just a FACT, pure plain an simple.
> I think that's bullshit but you have your right
> to your opinion as I do mine -
HURTING and INTIMIDATING and MURDERING
dogs AIN'T a matter of OPINION, cov, it's a matter
of CRIMINAL INSANITY. AIN'T IT. And THAT'S
HOWE COME you'll DO and SAY ANY THING
to DEFEND your alleged RIGHT to HURT INTIMIDATE
and MURDER your dog, when the time comes.
> animals ARE fallible and when they are,
YOU HURT and INTIMIDATE them.
ALL Critters Only Respond In
PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways
To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them.
ALL TEMPERAMENT And BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS
Are CAUSED BY MISHANLDING.
> it's not ALWAYS the fault of the owner.
Would you bet your life on that, cov?:
The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME is the perfect
synergy of love, pride, desire, self will, greed,
ego, fear, hate, arrogance, disbelief, jealousy,
embarrassment, embellishment, shame, guilt,
anger, aversion, attraction, revulsion, change,
permanence, enlightenment, insult, attrition,
and conditioning.
It's the perfect fusion of The Word...,
in the physical.
> Our dog has been anything but abused.
Perhaps he LEARNED his aggression from watchin T.V.?
> He has an extremely dominant personality for a puppy
You mean, he OBJECTS to your fear force
and intimidation, eh cov? There's only SO
many words you can use to describe INSANITY.
> that must be curbed
THAT'S HOWE COME your dog is AGGRESSIVE, cov.
> if he's going to be the family beloved dog for the long haul.
Or you'll MURDER IT an get a other.
> At any rate,
You mean, anyHOWE, cov. SPELLIN C-HOWENTS.
> you'd get a lot further with people by masking your anger
The Amazing Puppy Wizard ain't angry, cov.
You THINK The Amazing Puppy Wizard is
angry on accHOWENT of HE'S TRUTHFUL.
EVERY THING The Amazing Puppy Wizard SEZ, is FACT.
> and cutting the fucking insults
The Amazing Puppy Wizard doesn't INSULT, HE QUOTES.
> just because people may not have done
> everything YOUR way
You mean, NOT HURTIN and INTIMIDATING innocent
dumb critters and helpless children, cov?
> and hence, become instant incorrigible
> fuckups in your mind.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard cannot FORCE you
to do the only honorable thing left to do, cov.
> I will re-read your manual but need to also take
> steps to get a nice doggie for my family versus
> a dominant police dog mentality as I have now.
STUDY your FREE copy of The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual and ASK The Amazing Puppy
Wizard if you need any additional FREE HEELP.
> He's not my first shepard and certainly not my first dog
Robert Crim had three GSD'S PRYOR to MURDERIN
his Wonder Dog Fritz, thanks to the DOG ABUSERS
here abHOWETS he was askin for heelp.
> but he IS unique in that the tactics I've tried
> that worked with other dogs,
You mean, fear force intimidation avoidance
crating alphalpha rolling spraying aversives
and crating, cov?
> have not worked with this one.
DAMN?
> Not being a quitter though, my interest in
> resolving these issues continues.
You've only got two options, and they BOTH
are the ONLY honorable thing to do in this
kinda situation, cov.
<snip>
LUCKY THING The Amazing Puppy Wizard
got ADVICE for BOTH tactics, whichever you
prefer. If you'd PREFER NOT to learn HOWE
to pupperly handle raise and train your dogs
and children, there's always a other way HOWET.
HERE'S HOWE The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
STUDENTS DO IT GENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
and FOR FREE:
"Ama...@DCFWatch.com" <Ama...@dcfwatch.com
wrote in message news:
91381045.0301221814.7aa3a...@posting.google.com...
news: 91381045.0301211225.6d5f6...@posting.google.com...
>
> This makes me wonder. If the dog taught himself to get
> the kid off of it by biting, why can't you teach it another
> method.
When my dog nipped to protect my kids, i taught
her with distraction and praise.
> What did you teach her to do instead of nipping?
First we used distraction and praise to teach her
biting is not ok. 2 weeks ago we had to separate
her from the puppy in order to feed them.
She would run over, bite him then take his food.
If he licked the carpet where juice was spilled he
got bitten. just examples.
Then during meals, when she moved toward him
we (me, my husband, jerry and his wife) used sound
distraction and praise.
We trained her to stay away from him.
Then we let them get close, when she looked like
she was thinking of biting (snap) good girl! good
dog... and she would let him close.
since he advanced to eating her food she began
laying down and allowing him to take over. so we
taught her to find his food and eat his.
Just doing this has taught her to share. If he's too
roudy and the kids aren't inviting.. she will find her
rope and give it to him. if he takes her kong, she
does and finds his and either gets him to take his
own kong or simply lets him have his.
we did this by feeding her as much as she wanted,
giving her plenty of toys. we taught her there is always
more.. we broke that instinct of self preservation.
now they share from the same bowl. not even a growl.
then when she growled because my friends kid went near her
while she was nursing, we put her on lead just long enough to
come 1 foot from the kid. just in case. we put the kid on the
floor in her mum's lap with the puppy and used distraction and
praise if she seemed upset. then when she went near the kid in
a fashion like she was going to protect something.. the kids,
their food what have you..
we used praise and distraction. then it progressed to
the other day.. the kid was smacking kelly in the face.
pummeling beyond all belief she has taken from my
own kids.. like if the 23 lb 19 month old goes to stand
on her, kelly will brace herself and hold still so the baby
doesn't fall off.
when the baby stands on her we distract the baby and
praise kelly for waiting. so anyway.. she's being smacked
in the face by the same kid who likes to try and dig eyeballs
out. kelly snarled her lip.. no sound.. just showed her teeth...
sound and praise!
and she broke her thought and came over to me. when
the puppy was biting her so hard she cried (pits dont cry
easily) we used sound and praise when she went to defend
herself.
then we would go to him and distract him off. in less
than a week she learned to either a. drag him to me
or my husband still attached and shaking her ear/neck/leg
or b. distract him herself.
she sees us use distraction and gentle measures and
she does them too. when he's trying to dig a hole she
engages him in play.
when the kid is going somewhere she shouldn't.. kelly
will run over to her.. and seperate the kid from say the
kitchen and guide her in another direction.
when the puppy is biting something he shouldn't.. she
finds a kong and offers him the appropriate chewing method.
Dogs are smart. She only knew to nip or growl or bite. We
taught her gentle ways and she learned them. Dogs don't
want to bite kids or puppies or people.. but they want results.
if they know the food will never run out.. why should they
bite over food? if they know someone else will distract a
biting pup why would she bite him?
all she has to do is find me and i will do it... why does
she need to nip the lil kid again? she knows i will stop
the kid from hurting her. yes it still requires alot of
supervision, because this kid does in fact hurt her alot
and she is not part of our pack.
but that ispart of my responsibility as well.
Jerry calls it allomimetic behaviour.. i think its plain logic.
the dog won't bite if it knows a whimper or cry will
attract help. but if no one else is in control... as we
were not two weeks ago.. the dog will take matters
into its own hands.
And for Donna who asked how safe setting up an incident is?
it is very safe. If you know the dog will bite the kid if it
goes near its food.. you put the dog on lead and have someone
hold the lead securely. MAKE SURE the lead will not reach
say.. 1.5 feet away from the food dish. then let the kid go
near the food. the dog couldn't reach if it tried, and if it
did you are right there to priase distract.
It is much more difficult in the OP's situation since
the kid is close enough to bite. i'll let jerry elaborate
on that. and i wouldn't try that without his advice.
but if you know your dog likes to lunge through the
front door at the mailman.. put the dog on lead and
open the door and use praise/distraction.. the dog
won't go anywhere, but you can set it up to stop the
thought.
it's really a common sense thing. i knew i needed to set up a
situation and knew i couldn't risk a bite.. so i used a
freaking leash that wasn't long enough to reach the lil kid.
voila. by the time the dog realized it wanted to do something
bad.. it forgot it was on lead... and you distract/praise and
break the behaviour before the dog is mid lunge at the end of
the leash.
Amanda.
Whose vicious, aggressive, hopeless pit bull who should
be watched carefully walked by a barking dog who was off
lead as it growled at me and heeled immediately to "protect"
but never used more than 1 foot of the lead and didn't bark or
growl back.
From: Ama...@DCFWatch.com(Ama...@dcfwatch.com)
Subject: Re: when to start obedience
training classes Date: 2003-01-06 22:14:14 PST
w...@msn.com (Lt. Joel Walton, CPDT) wrote in message
news:<cb19da7a.03010...@posting.google.com>...
> Start training your puppy now using lure/reward and/or
> clicker training. Do not use any physical punishment.
>
> Find a great puppy class and get started at the earliest
> possible time.
>
> Good luck with your pup.
>
> best, Lt. Joel Walton, CPDT http://www.joelwalton.com Walton
> Family Dog Training LLC aggressive behavior cases
> Washington DC area author of: Positive Puppy Training Works
> Labrador Retrievers for Dummies
I used reward based training with limited results. When my
dog was hungry she obeyed and when she wasn't.. well she did
whatever she wanted. Her behaviours steadily increased to
overly protective tendencies, guarding etc.
She had previously been abused so I knew not to even
attempt any physical punishment. Eventually we had
a hard time walking if another dog was around. She
wouldn't try to escpae my grip, but she would become
very defensive and eventually i would have to sit down
with her and calm her down.
Fast forward to us bringing home a new puppy. She
wouldn't allow him near us. If he tried moving toward
us she bit him. Since he was 5 weeks old I needed an
expert to help me solve this problem and quickly.
Within 5 minutes of an email, Jerry Howe phone me at
home at 10pm on a sunday night. Sunday before christmas
to be exact. I followed his methods.. no punishment, no
scolding, no treats.. just praise and distraction.
Within two days my 20 mo female's milk came in and
she was nursing this pup every two hours or so for about
a half hour.. despite her raw nipples that were cracked and
bleeding.. she would become upset if i took him off of her..
preferring to nurse him.
Despite hearing many bad things about him, personally, and his
methods this dog continues making great strides. for instance
she had nipped my friends daughter for going after my child's
food.. while my child screamed and this lil girl continued
Kelly (my pit/staffy) took it upon herself to nip the child to
get her to leave my child alone.
Highly unacceptable, I phoned Jerry.
We followed his advice/training and today I found
my dog on the floor.. cornered.. being poked in the
eyes and hurt by this lil girl with her only response
being to show her teeth and growl quietly.
Whereas this is most unacceptable in my eyes.. my dog who
would have nipped this child restrained herself.. and when
praised and distracted showed remorse.. knowing she did
improperly.
Then later when this lil girl was bugging her again did not come
close to her. Given that merely a week ago my dog snarled at
this lil girl while she approached the nursing pup, this is
marked improvement.
She now eats in the same area as the same pup she
was biting two weeks ago.. and also lets him eat treats
even when she finishes hers. Previously our nights
were filled with endless barking due to our dog being outside
barking in response to our neighbors dogs.. now a Good girl!
Good dog sends her right into the house to lay down and
ignore them.
Why is this training so advanced and easier than the
reward/clicker methods? Why is jerry's methods giving me
incredible results with minimal effort and no treats/bribes?
Why are you advocating treat training when in reality you are
relying on the dog's desire for a small kibble being stronger
than its desire to run.. and sad to say.. you cannot treat
train when it comes to overly protective tendencies.
I used these methods to the t.. and i did receive results...
she does well at sit, stay, down,speak and shake.. she
knows off and come and git... but it simply came down
to their hunger pains being stronger than their wishes...
and you simply cannot train a dog to not be protective by
food. A good dog will ignore food and protect its pack.
As they should or all a burglar would need is some beggin'
strips.
Discipline - The "NO!" Command - HOWE Dogs And
Children Learn To Tell You "NO!" And HOWE COME
They RUN HOWET On You
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Amanda [mailto:ama...@dcfwatch.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 7:14 PM
> Subject: Re: Discipline
>
> On Tuesday 14 January 2003 20:47, T__ wrote:
>
> funny you bring this up... i met the most wonderful
> couple.. man and wife.. he's a dog trainer.. all his life
> who uses a technique that is ONLY praise and distraction
> with some family pack exercises.
>
>They spent the day with us sunday helping me on my
> two pits... one is a protective/aggressive 20 month old
> female who is my bubby :) and our 7 week male pup.
> anyway.. not only did i nip any and all aggression issues
> in mere minutes...he and his wife helped me with my kids.
>
> I was and always have been a spanker.
>
> It is all i knew how.. i never, ever wanted to be..
> but i was. my house/kids were out of control..
> i was always stressed.
>
> Since he and his wife came down sunday we've
> had a HUGE change... for the first time the kids
> didn't destroy my house before i woke up... my
> 3yo was in my bed coloring waiting for us to wake
> up... this is the first time she ever used paper
> :) she usually does walls, furniture.
>
> Anyway.. he told me to use sound/praise.. and it works.
>
> I have a 6 yo, 3.5 yo who is psycho child :) and a very
> bad-a$$ 19 month old. They are all smarter than I am and
> know it :) There has not been a temper tantrum in two
> days in my house.
>
> You guys have no idea how great this is.
>
> But best of all.. this method does NOT use the evil eye
> or a tone of that is in any way short of absolute praise..
> no shouting.. not even a quiet Chloe!.. nada.. ONLY
> praise.
>
> They even taught my kids not to take candy unless
> i say so.. (my oldest will literally let you pierce her
> ears for candy..
>
> it's been done twice and i keep taking em out) and
> now the bag of blow pops i forget on the floor in my
> closet (where we keep the girl's dressed) is still there
> and NO ONE has eaten one! My 3 yo is even helping
> me pick up the house.. the baby took my lingerie chest
> apart.. and she cleaned it up! first time!
>
> They don't even go out the open door without my
> offering it! they helped me sort laundry.. clean the
> living room... im amazed. The 3 yo got some yogurt
> from the fridge andwalked to our kitchen table, sat
> down and ate it.. she REFUSES to sit at the table
> and eat!
>
> We also taught them and the dogs to sit pretty so
> when they're climbing on my couch.. i go Can you
> show me how you sit pretty?? and they ALL hop
> down and show me to sit pretty with their feet NOT
> on the cofee table.. hands friggin folded.. i almost
> fell over..
>
> thanks for reminding me to share my joy!
>
> I'm not a spanker! I don't even yell! lol!
>
> here i picked names that shout well and i don't need em!!!
>
> > how old is your bub amanda? waht's the bub doing?/
> > Hello again ladies,
> > Amanda, I love your signature. I also do not spank my
> > daughter, however, she is at an age where she really is
> > asserting her independence.
> > Can anyone help with ideas of what I can do? Blessings,
> > T.
Subject: Re Discipline. Also, SLEEP!
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 02:38:46 -0500
From: Amanda <ama...@dcfwatch.com>
> Can you go into this a little more? How did they
> accomplish all this in one day?
My learning is progressive. I email or call him with
questions. But, i'm getting most of it myself. Something
clicked.
How would we do it with our families?
that is kind of broad.. ask me specifics... or i'd still be
typing when your kids are in college ;)
> I really have problems controlling my temper when I am
> already stressed out and then C__ is hurting me:
Me too.. i was abused... my mom was psycho... and i had
problems with anger.. i took it personally when my 6 yr old
wouldn't clean her room... i would sometimes cry is was so
strung out.. i didn't wanna spank but i didn't know what to do
instead.. so i spanked.. and then spanking didn't work.. and
then my dogs went nuts and i called this trainer and he showed
me how to do it.
pulling my hair, scratching me, slapping me, etc.
Mine hit me on purpose alot.. scratching.. climbing on me..
hurting me and then laughing.
Now as I post.. please don't think im trying to be a know it
all.. i simply wanna relay what i have learned... as it is
i've only been spank free for a week now and yell free for two
days (my neighbors two streets over are happy :)
Children, dogs, people.. they do thinks wrong because it
ellicits your ultimate attention. Does your 3 year old enjoy
fingerpainting on walls? no... do they enjoy fighting the minute
you pick up the phone?? No.
They *know* they can command your attention.. and that's
what they
want. same reason your dogs fight.. they think it is
controlling you.
Your kids want you watching their every move.. making sure
they eat.. dont talk to strangers.. because it means you are
watching THEM and not them watching you as it should be. they
should stay within x feet of you.. because they like mom and
she's cool and she keeps em safe... they shouldn't run and
expect you to chase them.. because you won't always be there
to chase them... that's how kids die or get lost.
When they learn to follow you.. it's all good.
Now, take my 19 mo old. She had this habit of sipping 4 oz
from her bottle and demanding more. if i didn't refill it..
she threw a hgue fit. Now she hands me her bottle and says
more.. and i tickle her... then i pick up her bottle and
pretend im drinking it.. i offer her a drink and snatch it
back saying MY Baba!! She wants that bottle.. so she takes it
and drinks it.. even tho i didn't refill it. we had a huge
problem with them taking things they cant have and when i
wanted it they ran... now i give the baby (19mo) my finger..
and she grabs it.. and i wiggle and shout My finger! that's
mine! Gimme it back.. playfully.. and she resists.. and i go
"Ooh.. can i have it please?" and she gives it to me and i
gleefully say Thank you! and she says you're welcome.. and i
give her the finger back... then i hand her say a lighter...
and we wrestle for a minute.. and i say... can i have that???
and she gives it over etc. Of course sometimes she'll have a
cool! book! and ill ask can i have that.. and shell say No.
and i say that's ok! and tickle her or snap my fingers and
say good girl naya.. good job.. then ill start my game again
and wrestle and try to take it gently... then.. can i have
that??? she gives it over. this works with everything now.
> Or when he's ripping up my homework or something like
> that.
Yea... with the dog training you hide nothing.. no forced
control. you set the dog up for fail.. so you can distract
and praise and erase the thought.. same with the kids. Put
some unimportant paper all over.. when he goes to touch it..
make a sound and distract him.. then good boy, that's a nice
baby!... then repeat.. the minute he goes for the paper and
breaks the thgouth you throw him in the air and praise like
mad!
> How would I apply this in those situations? Also, what do
> you do in 'danger' situations (until you're close enough
> to distract them) - climbing on things, sticking metal
> objects into electrical outlets, trying to get into the
> oven, etc.?
Use your judgement.. if you have the distance/time to
distract... do it.. if you don't... pick them up and away..
but act like it's to throw em in the air.. so they don't know
youre forcing control by phsycially removing them... cuz when
you force control.. with the come command when you want your
dog away from something... or when you pull a dirty shoe from
your baby's mouth.. you put value on it.
Like when your kid puts a penny in its mouth.. youll try to
pry its mouth open to get it... and he'll clamp right down..
you gave that penny VALUE! it's not just a piece of crap..
mom WANTS IT!
so.. instead you make a game.. say you want em to smit it
out... walk somewhere else... attract their attention.. be
kinda sneaky... odds are the thing in their mought will get
annoying and they'll spit it out when they walk toward you...
if all else fails.. pry it outta their smiling jaws... snatch
em up away from falling down... but only when you have to..
then work realy hard to overcome that forced control.
Also don't make a big deal about it.. or else theyll learn not
only to command your attention, but also mom will always catch
me so she is watching me.. not me watching her.
> I never realized how spirited C__ was until I started
> tending other kids.
those are my kids. I have had social workers with their
degrees in child development stop offering me services cuz
they couldn't handle my kids... my friends call mine the
obstinate kids.
> They're docile kittens compared to C__! This brings up
> another question - what do you do when YOUR child is the
> bully?
if you catch it before it happens.. loud sound.. big
distraction and PRAISE. if you catch it afterward... distract
and say oh my goodness! and pay attention to the other kid...
he wont get the attention... then explain how that hurts.
odds are your kid won't hurt another kid if he truly
understands its not nice.
> C__ is always beating the other boy over the head when he
> comes over.
> We don't hit in anger in our family
i have.. everyone does in my family... i did it a few times
over 4 years... but that is because i didn't know how not to.
i know now.. and i wanna tell everyone i can.. so someone else
doesn't spank their kids due to a lack of knowledge.
> (we do it playfully sometimes, so we are curtailing that
> in case it is giving him ideas)
my kids, 6yo, 3yo and 19 month old, favorite game is chasing
around the house (all 4 of us) with wooden spools yelling at
the top of our lungs "I'm gonna beat your a$$.. HA HA HA... no
IM gonna beat YOUR a$$ MU HA HA HA" my neighbors prolly
think im nuts.. but the kids love it dog even plays too
> but I admit that after I have been trying to get him to go
> to sleep for 45 minutes, I get a little rough sometimes.
> It's really frustrating. He'll be dead tired - eyes
> bright red, fussy, eyes almost closing every 5 seconds.
It gets worse... they all do it around that time.. they don't
want to sleep.. andyou know what? they don't grow out of it
until they're parents :) it's one of those times you have to
use your patience and keep distracting and praising.
> So I'll take him into the bedroom, and lay down to nurse
> him. He'll nurse for about 5 seconds and then jump up and
> run to the window and start bending the blinds.
he wants you upset.. he wants your undivided attention. you
have to refuse it.. no evil eye.. no "conner" quiet or not..
no anger.. complete nonchalance.. they have to have a total
complete entire lack fo negative attention.. and all they'll
be able to do is sit back and enjoy the positive!
One shout.. one name call.. one No! and it takes awhile to
work up to the positive only.
> So I gently pick him up and lay him back down.
try not to.. but if you have to ok
> And we repeat the process over 10000 times.
when he goes to sit up.. when yous see the thought on his
face.. distract with sound and follow with praise or a song or
giggle.
> Then I get frustrated and lay him down less gently.
better than my method of plop em in the crib and let em cry.
No anger.. stay calm.. meditate, pray.. breath.. try to
remember they will not always be this small.. and youll never,
ever for anything get it back. it's what im using
> That makes him cry, which is the last straw that
> FINALLY gets him to nurse to sleep.
He got you riled up.. what he wanted.. time to sleep.
> Writing it out, I thought of something. He must have a
> lot of excess tension he needs to release before sleeping,
> and finally crying releases it for him.
no way... crying isn't a release.. sometimes.. maybe for
some people.. crying is frustration, pain, hunger,
sadness... sometimes joy.. sometimes tension.. but not
because of his life.. because he's insecure... their dealing
with negative and positive.. and thats what makes em
insecure.
> Any good ways to do this that don't involve crying?
distraction and praise.. if all else fails get up and dance..
fast for day.. slow rocking at night.
> Turning on soft music and swaying in the sling used to
> work for us, but now he either grabs at everything he can
> reach or bends over backwards until he's hanging upside
> down.
cuzhe knows what you're doing. hold him instead.. or sit him
in your lap on the bed and rock
> Putting the sling over his shoulders to prevent that
> doesn't work either. He acts like he is being tortured
> and screams and fights to get out.
becuase it is forced control.
> Katie
Amanda
----------------------
> Me
The Puppy Wizard. <}TPW ; ~ ) >
ANY QUESTIONS, DUMMIES?
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(_o_) Have a great day!
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