Fuel Starved Ford 460

[Andre Clay]

Hello All,
Just returned from a trip up the Elliott Highway north of Fairbanks,
Alaska and experienced a very frustrating problem. I have had this rig
(1990 21' Itasca, 30K miles, EFI 460CID) only a couple of months and
since it is my first RV am not to well versed in the problems that can
arise.
The rig ran fine for about 50 miles until I hit the long hills north of
Fairbanks. The weather was also very hot, for here, in the mid 80's. The
engine would start dragging down and then lurching with an occasional
backfire as I climbed the hills and eventually quit. I waited about 45
minutes and the motor would start right up and run well depending on the
terrain, no hills ran fine; get to a hill lucky to make it over. In the
end I paid to have it towed back to the dealer for repairs.
The tow truck driver said it was a common problem on hot days as he had
been busy. I would just like know of other experiences people have had
and what if any is the fix. I was told it could be vaporlock but thought
that only affected carb engines not those with fuel injection. Please
E-Mail any comments. Thanks in advance.
Andre Clay
ac...@polarnet.com

[Anthony]

Hi André,

Did you take the unit out of overdrive on the inclines ?
Did the unit shift down on the hills ?

I drove my 23 ft. Coachman Catalina up Pikes Peak, and it never once lost a
beat.
I do however, shift out of overdrive on long hills (like I 24 between
Nashville and Chattanooga).

My experience with the 460 has been favorable in the mountain areas out
West.

--
Anthony
ar...@gte.net

Andre Clay <ac...@polarnet.com> wrote in article
<33B73977...@polarnet.com>...

[schappell]

Andre Clay wrote:
>
> Hello All,
> Just returned from a trip up the Elliott Highway north of Fairbanks,
> Alaska and experienced a very frustrating problem. I have had this rig
> (1990 21' Itasca, 30K miles, EFI 460CID) only a couple of months and
> since it is my first RV am not to well versed in the problems that can
> arise.
> The rig ran fine for about 50 miles until I hit the long hills north of
> Fairbanks. The weather was also very hot, for here, in the mid 80's. The
> engine would start dragging down and then lurching with an occasional
> backfire as I climbed the hills and eventually quit. I waited about 45
> minutes and the motor would start right up and run well depending on the
> terrain, no hills ran fine; get to a hill lucky to make it over. In the
> end I paid to have it towed back to the dealer for repairs.
> The tow truck driver said it was a common problem on hot days as he had
> been busy. I would just like know of other experiences people have had
> and what if any is the fix. I was told it could be vaporlock but thought
> that only affected carb engines not those with fuel injection. Please
> E-Mail any comments. Thanks in advance.
> Andre Clay
> ac...@polarnet.com

Sorry to hear about your trouble.

Have your mechanic check your fuel line. Ford has been known to do dumb
stuff like run the incoming fuel line next the the exhast manifold. This
will sure give you a problem or two.

Good Luck
Stuart

[Chuck Wust]

I have a Ford F 350 with duel tanks and a 460 engine.
I had similar problems with my truck.
The first time it was a problem with the wiring on the dash switch.
the second time I was towing my 5th Wheel, experienced the sme problems
on hills. Turns out to fix it I had to replace the fuel pump. Problem
fixed.
Did it myself, cost $250. Cost at a Repair Shop $400 - $600 !
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Chuck in Vancouver

[M. Drew]

;o)

Chuck Wust <cw...@axionet.com> wrote in article
<01bc86af$0c1c20a0$LocalHost@default>...

> I have a Ford F 350 with duel tanks and a 460 engine.

***********
I think I have spotted the problem!
If you have DUEL tanks - maybe they are just fighting each other.
Replace them with DUAL tanks !
************

[Rob Wright]

> Andre Clay wrote:
> > Hello All,
> > Just returned from a trip up the Elliott Highway north of Fairbanks,
> > Alaska and experienced a very frustrating problem. I have had this
> > rig (1990 21' Itasca, 30K miles, EFI 460CID) only a couple of months and
> > since it is my first RV am not to well versed in the problems that
> > can arise.
> > The rig ran fine for about 50 miles until I hit the long hills north
> > of Fairbanks. The weather was also very hot, for here, in the mid 80's.
> > The engine would start dragging down and then lurching with an
> > occasional backfire as I climbed the hills and eventually quit. I waited about 45
> > minutes and the motor would start right up and run well depending on
> > the terrain, no hills ran fine; get to a hill lucky to make it over. In
> > the end I paid to have it towed back to the dealer for repairs.
> > The tow truck driver said it was a common problem on hot days as he
> > had been busy. I would just like know of other experiences people have
> > had and what if any is the fix. I was told it could be vaporlock but
> > thought that only affected carb engines not those with fuel injection.

That certainly sounds like vapor lock, although I've never experienced
it with fuel injection (I think that's because of the higher pressure in
an injection system). One thing that rings a bell with me is fuel
contamination. I have had exactly the same symptoms with a tank
contaminated with water. While the engine may pull OK without a load,
stand by for dragging down, lurching, stalling, etc when the engine gets
hot and is also loaded. In either case, cooling the engine and fuel
lines is key to the correct diagnosis. You can check for water in the
fuel by popping a line and drawing a quart of fuel into a glass jar and
swirling it. If you see transparent bubbles in the gasoline, you've been
sold shoddy goods.

-- Badger

.....Slowly, Inexorably, Drainging My Tank

[Larry Smeins]

>
> > Andre Clay wrote:The weather was also very hot, for here, in the mid 80's.

> > > The engine would start dragging down and then lurching with an
> > > occasional backfire as I climbed the hills and eventually quit. I waited about 45
> > > minutes and the motor would start right up and run well depending on
> > > the terrain,

This could very well be vapor lock. Fuel injected engines can
and do vapor lock but my injected engines always completely died
when they vapor locked. Usually sitting only 15 minutes would
clear up the problem. Early Ford Taurus had lots of fuel pump
problems resulting in vapor lock. Could happen on other Fords as
well.

Another thing I had happen on a fuel injected car was a plugged
filter screen over the inlet of the in tank fuel pump. It looked
like a film of RTV over the screen when I finally found the
problem. This only showed up when the weather was hot and I
needed power. It finally stranded me between two hills on a very
hot 4th of July some years ago. I waited until the sun set and
continued on.

I've added diesel fuel to gas to change its vapor pressure and
reduce vapor locking. It lowers the octane rating a bit but I
was willing to trade that for running. Vapor locking is quite
common at the high altitudes here in Colorado.

Larry
If you don't care where you are, you ain't lost.

[Erich Coiner]

Larry Smeins wrote:
>
> >
> > > Andre Clay wrote:The weather was also very hot, for here, in the mid 80's.
> > > > The engine would start dragging down and then lurching with an
> > > > occasional backfire as I climbed the hills and eventually quit. I waited about 45
> > > > minutes and the motor would start right up and run well depending on
> > > > the terrain,
>

I have had two different problems that had symptoms similar to the ones
you describe. I have a 1983 Ford F250HD with a carbureted 460. On
multiple occasions the fuel pump became weak. The truck would run fine
until a large amount of power was required. Then it would hesitate buck
and generally act like it was running out of gas. It was never a plugged
filter :(, every time replacing the pump fixed the problem. On this
engine the pump is mechanical and mounted to the side of the engine
front cover.
The other problem occured on hot days mostly after an extended period at
low speeds in traffic. It also happened on the interstate when the temp
was over 100. The engine would not rev over 1700 rpm without bucking,
jumping misfiring and backfiring. The first time it happened I thought
the world was ending. If you short shifted to keep the revs down to 1500
and drove along at 45 or so for a few minutes you could then put the
hammer down with no problems. It took about 2 months of driving and
experiencing this intermittent problem until I figured it out.
The Duraspark electronic ignition module was getting too hot and would
misfire. I reproduced the problem in the driveway by heating the
module up with a hair dryer. After about 10 minutes of heating the
ignition miss kicked in. I allowed the box to cool and the problem went
away.
I replaced the module and the problem went away and never came back.

[Warren Engard]

On Tue, 01 Jul 1997 00:00:27 -0700, schappell <scha...@ap.net>
wrote:

>Andre Clay wrote:
>>
>> Hello All,
>> Just returned from a trip up the Elliott Highway north of Fairbanks,
>> Alaska and experienced a very frustrating problem. I have had this rig
>> (1990 21' Itasca, 30K miles, EFI 460CID) only a couple of months and
>> since it is my first RV am not to well versed in the problems that can
>> arise.
>> The rig ran fine for about 50 miles until I hit the long hills north of

>> Fairbanks. The weather was also very hot, for here, in the mid 80's. The

>> engine would start dragging down and then lurching with an occasional
>> backfire as I climbed the hills and eventually quit. I waited about 45
>> minutes and the motor would start right up and run well depending on the

>> terrain, no hills ran fine; get to a hill lucky to make it over. In the
>> end I paid to have it towed back to the dealer for repairs.
>> The tow truck driver said it was a common problem on hot days as he had
>> been busy. I would just like know of other experiences people have had
>> and what if any is the fix. I was told it could be vaporlock but thought

>> that only affected carb engines not those with fuel injection. Please
>> E-Mail any comments. Thanks in advance.
>> Andre Clay
>> ac...@polarnet.com
>Sorry to hear about your trouble.
>
>Have your mechanic check your fuel line. Ford has been known to do dumb
>stuff like run the incoming fuel line next the the exhast manifold. This
>will sure give you a problem or two.
>
>Good Luck
>Stuart

Also check service bulletins for the model year of your chassis. Ford
had a problem with a vapor locking fuel pump.

[Pete Dumbleton]

From what I've read about vapor lock, fuel injection in and of itself
doesn't reduce vapor lock, but the higher pressure, "push from the tank"
fuel pumps that are usually associated with FI do reduce it, as do the
return lines from the engine compartment filter to the charcoal canister
and fuel tank (these recirculate warm fuel back to the tank for cooling).
Anything that reduces the heat of the fuel and increases the pressure of
the warm fuel will stave off vapor lock to some degree; conversely, summer
temperatures at high altitude encourage vapor lock.

Pete Dumbleton sf...@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us

Larry Smeins (lsm...@ball.com) wrote:
: >
: > > Andre Clay wrote:The weather was also very hot, for here, in the mid 80's.

: > > > The engine would start dragging down and then lurching with an
: > > > occasional backfire as I climbed the hills and eventually quit. I waited about 45
: > > > minutes and the motor would start right up and run well depending on
: > > > the terrain,

: This could very well be vapor lock. Fuel injected engines can

[Thomas Mehrkam]

Warren Engard wrote:
>
> On Tue, 01 Jul 1997 00:00:27 -0700, schappell <scha...@ap.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Andre Clay wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello All,
> >> Just returned from a trip up the Elliott Highway north of Fairbanks,
> >> Alaska and experienced a very frustrating problem. I have had this rig
> >> (1990 21' Itasca, 30K miles, EFI 460CID) only a couple of months and
> >> since it is my first RV am not to well versed in the problems that can
> >> arise.
> >> The rig ran fine for about 50 miles until I hit the long hills north of

> >> Fairbanks. The weather was also very hot, for here, in the mid 80's. The

> >> engine would start dragging down and then lurching with an occasional
> >> backfire as I climbed the hills and eventually quit. I waited about 45
> >> minutes and the motor would start right up and run well depending on the

> >> terrain, no hills ran fine; get to a hill lucky to make it over. In the
> >> end I paid to have it towed back to the dealer for repairs.
> >> The tow truck driver said it was a common problem on hot days as he had
> >> been busy. I would just like know of other experiences people have had
> >> and what if any is the fix. I was told it could be vaporlock but thought
> >> that only affected carb engines not those with fuel injection. Please
> >> E-Mail any comments. Thanks in advance.
> >> Andre Clay
> >> ac...@polarnet.com
> >Sorry to hear about your trouble.
> >
> >Have your mechanic check your fuel line. Ford has been known to do dumb
> >stuff like run the incoming fuel line next the the exhast manifold. This
> >will sure give you a problem or two.
> >
> >Good Luck
> >Stuart
>
> Also check service bulletins for the model year of your chassis. Ford
> had a problem with a vapor locking fuel pump.

The problem is most likely the fuel pump. I have replaced 5 "FIVE" fuel
pumps on ford pickups and motor homes I have owned. The pickups at
least have two fuel pumps. "One in each tank". The motor home is
another matter. I had one go bad two years ago between white sands
and el paso. I was lucky to be towed back to white sands where I waited
two days for a new fuel pump. WOuld you beleave that a Ford dealer would
not have this common fuel pump. It is used on all echonoline vans and
the older 87 vintage pickups.

Some times the pump will just quit without any real warning "Like the
Motorhome". And other times it will act like a vapor lock on hot
days when under a load. Replace the fuel pump. Replace the fuel filters.
and your problem will probably be solved. I carry a spare pump with me
just in case. "I'll not be stranded again because of this."

You can have a mechanic check the fuel pressure. If the fuel pump is
going bad then the fuel pressure will most likely be low. Or better
yet just replace the pump and be done with it.

The fuel pumps are quite expensive. Fords cost for replacing one of the
in tank pumps is $600. The motor home fuel pump is mounted on the frame.
There is a second low pressure pump in the gas tank but that pump does
not seem to cause much trouble. The fuel pumps are just now becoming
avaliable from suppliers other than Ford. Carter makes replacment
pumps for the pickups and may make a pump for the Motor Home. The
price for the carter pump is less than $100.

Good luck.

[steven.e...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, June 29, 1997 at 2:00:00 AM UTC-5, Andre Clay wrote:
> Hello All,
> Just returned from a trip up the Elliott Highway north of Fairbanks,
> Alaska and experienced a very frustrating problem. I have had this rig
> (1990 21' Itasca, 30K miles, EFI 460CID) only a couple of months and
> since it is my first RV am not to well versed in the problems that can
> arise.
> The rig ran fine for about 50 miles until I hit the long hills north of
> Fairbanks. The weather was also very hot, for here, in the mid 80's. The
> engine would start dragging down and then lurching with an occasional
> backfire as I climbed the hills and eventually quit. I waited about 45
> minutes and the motor would start right up and run well depending on the
> terrain, no hills ran fine; get to a hill lucky to make it over. In the
> end I paid to have it towed back to the dealer for repairs.
> The tow truck driver said it was a common problem on hot days as he had
> been busy. I would just like know of other experiences people have had
> and what if any is the fix. I was told it could be vaporlock but thought
> that only affected carb engines not those with fuel injection. Please
> E-Mail any comments. Thanks in advance.
> Andre Clay
> ac...@polarnet.com

Hi Andre,

I realize this is an old post, but I'm wondering if you ever solved your vapor lock problem? I am having the exact same issue.

I am wondering if ethanol gasoline, with a lower vapor temperature, is part of the culprit?

[Technobarbarian]

I was hoping someone more helpful would answer your question. At
one time this was a very active RV group. What you have found is the
burned out remains of that group. There are probably less than 30 active
users on this group now and most of the discussions are not about RVs or
RVing. I would suggest taking your questions to web based discussion
groups. Despite what you're seeing this is not one of them. It's based
on Usenet and Google has ported it to the Internet. They're really 2
different animals. The blessing and curse of Usenet is that most of it
isn't moderated.

TB

[Frank Howell]

I have a 1999 Tioga with a 460 engine. Experienced same problems with
engine dying in hot weather, but as soon as it cools down it starts
right up. Then 5 years ago on a trip that took me to Prineville with
weather in low eighties the engine dies in front of residential house.
So found an RV repair shop and took it in and had both fuel pumps
replaced. The in tank pump and the one on drivers side underneath
chassis. Cost $1200. No more engine dying.

--
Frank Howell

[Hank]

I had an 2004 Coachman on the 450 chassis with the v10. I had it parked in my pole barn. I would go out and start it every couple weeks. Went out and it wouldn't start. Had it towed to the shop and they replaced the pump in the tank. I told the mechanic (a friend of mine) I wanted the old pump. When I got it and hooked it up to a battery to make sure it didn't work and it didn't but it did hum slightly. I reversed polarity and it ran. Then I put the polarity back to the way it was suppose to be and it seemed to run. I then put it in a bucket of water and it pumped fine. Weird to say the least. That also cost me $1200.

Hank

[little...@iminsane.com]

With friends like that you don't need enemies :-)


--
The Democrat Party Platform - Investigate, don't legislate.

[Hank]

I think you misunderstood. The friend did what he had to do. He never reversed the polarity to see if it would work when put back to normal polarity. It appears there may have been a piece of dirt/debris that kept it from turning/pumping. Reversing the polarity must've freed the debris. I wouldn't have wanted him to do anything BUT replace the pump. I had a full tank of gas and he had the lift/equipment that could do the job. He's not some backyard mechanic. He owns the shop and has 4 people working for him.

Hank

[little...@iminsane.com]

I was just kidding.

[George Anthony]

I can’t imagine what we would do if it was not for your invaluable advise and humor as our own in-house baboon.

The Democrat Party Platform - Investigate, then can we just impeach the bum and get over it?
MAGA - Make America Groan Again

[George Anthony]

> The Democrat Party Platform - Investigate, and impeach the bum

Could not help notice that once again you missed your opportunity to help your fellow camper in dispensing some of you valuable advice as former head drain plug installer at jiffy Lube.

I LOOK AT LIBERALS AND SOMETIMES THINK "REALLY”? --------- THAT'S THE SPERM THAT SPAWNED TRUMP?"