OT? - They're Watching!

[George Anthony]

Shades of "Person of Interest".

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/amazon-facing-uproar-for-selling-police-facial-recognition-tech
--
How do you get a sweet little 80-year-old lady to say the 'F' word?
Get another sweet little 80-year-old lady to yell 'BINGO!'

[vito]

On Wed, 23 May 2018 09:34:20 -0500, George Anthony
<gant...@gmail.org> wrote:

>Shades of "Person of Interest".
>
>https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/amazon-facing-uproar-for-selling-police-facial-recognition-tech

Color me dumb, but I don't see what they're worked up over. AFAIK
police would use it the put names on faces spotted in surviellence
videos.. So?

[Hank]

Hell, all you blacks look the same anyway.😀

Hank

[George Anthony]

On 5/23/2018 6:10 PM, Hank wrote:
> Hell, all you blacks look the same anyway.😀
>
> Hank
>

Not to a computer.

[vito]

On Wed, 23 May 2018 16:10:48 -0700 (PDT), Hank <nineb...@aol.com>
wrote:

>Hell, all you blacks look the same anyway.?
>
>Hank

A black friend burst out laughing when he heard that. He says that
his grandmother says the same thing about whites and doesn't see how
he tells us apart.

[Jerry Osage]

Well, it just gets us closer to the society Orwell described in his novel
1984.

Suppose someone of Hillary's, or Øbama's ilk, or worse, gets into power. The
Deep State will be with them as long as they are left of center. Then, the
antics and abilities of the government as portrayed in the Jason Bourne
trilogy of films might become an accepted reality, at least by the
government in power.

AI's with real abilities and making billions, if not trillions of
calculations a second are out there doing very specialized operations at
near light speed. Although we call them AI's, they neither understand, or
care about, the differences between good and bad. To them doing bad is no
different than doing good. They are programmed for specific tasks and do
them well and at amazing speeds without any qualms.

Capture an image of a partial face - compare it to a databank of 50+ million
images - and in less than 5 seconds give a match with a known person with a
probability of 98.7%. Continue tracking as the individual moves from camera
view to camera view until a camera gets a different partial image and in a
couple of seconds the probability is now 100%. The same holds true for gaits
and mannerisms. They too can be captured, quantified, and linked to an
individual in a matter of seconds.

AFAIK Facebook allows you to tag images with a name. Then their AI has a
name to go with the face. It can then look for other tagged images and build
up a model to recognize that face from any angle. Facebook users are happy
to be able to feed the AI. Go figure.

Out here in the sticks it is not much of a personal concern. If I lived in
NY or any other large city I would have concerns.
--

Jerry O.

[vito]

Scary, but not because of the technology but because of the likely
abuse.

[film...@gmail.com]

Why would you have any more concerns about AI because of living in a big city? More cameras to spy on you? It's a lot tougher to be sneaky in 2018, but if you're not trying to do anything nefarious, I can't see what there 'd be concerned about, regardless of where one lives?

Honest John

[Jerry Osage]

On Wed, 23 May 2018 22:49:56 -0700 (PDT), film...@gmail.com wrote:

>
>Why would you have any more concerns about AI because of living in a big city?
>More cameras to spy on you?
>

Yes.

>It's a lot tougher to be sneaky in 2018, but if you're not trying to do anything
>nefarious, I can't see what there'd be concerned about, regardless of where
>one lives?
>

At this time probably nothing. However, nefarious things are now happening
in the IoT. Routers - thousands, perhaps millions of them, by some
government backed hacker group. Nothermark recently posted about it.

Having worked as a contractor I was amazed just how lax many IT departments
were ran. Either because of laziness, and/or a feeling of superiority. Many
didn't seem to know shit from Shinola about real security.

Just before I retired we needed access to some error-log files on the
contractor's system. I was expecting their IT guys so set up a new folder
for us where the files we needed to scrutinize would be copied into. Nope,
we were given access to that whole system and told where to find the files
we needed.

Perhaps, because we were a trusted sub-contractor, but more likely their IT
guy we were working with was clueless as to what he had done - he had given
us Root privileges - we became Gods with just a few keystrokes. An hour or
two after we discovered that we were Root they could have deleted our
account and we could have still logged in through several new accounts and
still had Root.

Before the Miranda decision was LE for or against it? Obviously against it
otherwise it would never have came before the SCOTUS. You have a lot more
trust in the government and LE always doing the right thing than I do. I
hope you are right and I am wrong and we are all watched over by machines of
loving grace. However, I don't see that outcome happening.

>Honest John
--

Jerry O.

[nothermark]

Once one understands that one of the top methods of the LE community
is to figure out how to put a lot of pressure on somebody then offer
them immunity if they come up with dirt on somebody else it becomes
clear that one cannot trust the government to play fair. It gets
really nasty when the supposed perp has no dirt to share. They are
convinces we are all crooked, we just have not been caught.

[bill horne]

film...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 23, 2018 at 7:26:28 PM UTC-7, Jerry Osage wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 May 2018 17:30:52 -0400, vito <v...@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 23 May 2018 09:34:20 -0500, George Anthony
>>> <gant...@gmail.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Shades of "Person of Interest".
>>>>
>>>> https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/amazon-facing-uproar-for-selling-police-facial-recognition-tech
>>>
>>>
>>>>
Color me dumb, but I don't see what they're worked up over. AFAIK
>>> police would use it the put names on faces spotted in
>>> surviellence videos.. So?
>>>
>> Well, it just gets us closer to the society Orwell described in
>> his novel 1984.
>>

>> Suppose someone of Hillary's, or Øbama's ilk, or worse, gets

As you say, cameras and AI are a non-problem for non-nefarious
non-sneakers. The Real Danger is in weaponized allegations fired from
the smartfones of malicious facebookers and twitterers.

--
bill
Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.

[Jerry Osage]

Also, our criminal justice system is subliminally biased against the accused
by the fact that he/she has been arrested for the crime. Even though one is
supposedly innocent until proven guilty, they were arrested and the DA's
office is prosecuting so they think they are guilty and can convict.

It generally boils down to the fact that the accused must prove that they
are innocent beyond a reasonable doubt. That is because most are guilty - so
everyone is asking themselves what are the odds that this one is actually
innocent.
--

Jerry O.

[Major Oz]

On Wednesday, 23 May 2018 09:34:24 UTC-5, George Anthony wrote:
> Shades of "Person of Interest".
>
> https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/amazon-facing-uproar-for-selling-police-facial-recognition-tech

Tekk currently exists for ANY smart camera, ANYWHERE, to be hacked to have it look at your face, scan it through facial recognition, use the GPS function...

....to ID you and find you....

Solution.....don't look at your phone.

[film...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, May 24, 2018 at 5:34:01 AM UTC-7, Jerry Osage wrote:
> On Wed, 23 May 2018 22:49:56 -0700 (PDT), film...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >
> >Why would you have any more concerns about AI because of living in a big city?
> >More cameras to spy on you?
> >
> Yes.
>
> >It's a lot tougher to be sneaky in 2018, but if you're not trying to do anything
> >nefarious, I can't see what there'd be concerned about, regardless of where
> >one lives?
> >
> At this time probably nothing. However, nefarious things are now happening
> in the IoT. Routers - thousands, perhaps millions of them, by some
> government backed hacker group. Nothermark recently posted about it.

Why would you use a post of NM to validate any of your suspicions when you spend so much time here pointing out his intellectual shortcomings?

>
> Having worked as a contractor I was amazed just how lax many IT departments
> were ran. Either because of laziness, and/or a feeling of superiority. Many
> didn't seem to know shit from Shinola about real security.
>
> Just before I retired we needed access to some error-log files on the
> contractor's system. I was expecting their IT guys so set up a new folder
> for us where the files we needed to scrutinize would be copied into. Nope,
> we were given access to that whole system and told where to find the files
> we needed.
>
> Perhaps, because we were a trusted sub-contractor, but more likely their IT
> guy we were working with was clueless as to what he had done - he had given
> us Root privileges - we became Gods with just a few keystrokes. An hour or
> two after we discovered that we were Root they could have deleted our
> account and we could have still logged in through several new accounts and
> still had Root.

Maybe I'm just dumb? I am unaware of what "Root" means?

>
> Before the Miranda decision was LE for or against it? Obviously against it
> otherwise it would never have came before the SCOTUS. You have a lot more
> trust in the government and LE always doing the right thing than I do. I
> hope you are right and I am wrong and we are all watched over by machines of
> loving grace. However, I don't see that outcome happening.
>
> >Honest John
> --
>
> Jerry O.

I don't have such a strong trust in the government - Or LE. I think they both can get into a discomboobulated sense of winning, or trying to run a smooth operation, instead searching for the "truth" about whatever is going on. I simply think I'm too unimportant to fool with, or involve in whatever big fish they have to fry... YMMV

Just another Nobody

[vito]

On Thu, 24 May 2018 14:27:38 -0500, Jerry...@invalid.net (Jerry

I read somewhere that about 1 in 5 convicts are innocent of the crime
they were doing time for. Sorry I cannnot provide a cite.

[Jerry Osage]

On Thu, 24 May 2018 14:20:52 -0700 (PDT), film...@gmail.com wrote:

>Why would you use a post of NM to validate any of your suspicions when you
>spend so much time here pointing out his intellectual shortcomings?
>

Lets be fair here. NM and I disagree mostly on things economic and the
degree to which Luck plays an important role in success. Many times I don't
think nm reads with much comprehension and doesn't seem to check his posts
before he posts them. However, if you have been reading the Google Groups
thread it is glaringly apparent that lack of reading comprehension runs
rampant here.


Here is what nm posted that I was referring to. We weren't arguing opinions
or interpretation of facts - nm posted a link which I read. Here is the link
nm posted.
<https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/05/hackers-infect-500000-consumer-routers-all-over-the-world-with-malware/>
Hackers are now starting to hack the IoT (Internet of things). Here is a
link to a Wiki <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_of_things>.

>Maybe I'm just dumb? I am unaware of what "Root" means?
>

Not dumb, just uneducated in networks and networked systems...
And, here I suspect nm could explain it better than I can, however, here
goes it.

From Unix, and Unix like systems -- Root is the highest authority or
privilege given to a user working with an operating system or other control
program. A person with root level access is called an "administrator," "root
user" or "superuser."

Anyone who has Root privileges is a GOD of the system. When you log into
your Windows PC's operating system, as the owner, you probably log in as an
Administrator. You are God, you can do anything - including killing the
system very easily by futzing up the Registry among other ways. Whereas
logging on as "Guest" one is very limited - Windows has tried to make System
Administration easy for us.

Now consider a company network with 1500 terminals, or more. The Accounting
Dept has their files and programs as does the Personnel Dept., Shipping and
Receiving, etc. A shipping clerk is not allowed to poke around in the
Personnel Dept's files because his privileges are limited to areas that he
needs to do his job.

Just for shits and grins suppose we had sold the company a very
sophisticated CNC system.

(Computer numerical control (CNC) is the automation of machine tools by
means of computers executing pre-programmed sequences of machine controls.)

We would need access to our control software for diagnostics and
troubleshooting. However, we would not need access to a control code files
that milled out some very complicated pieces. The company writes and tests
that code. That code could represent thousands of dollars of coding time and
if a competitor obtained it for free???

The CNC crashes and generates an error file and writes it to disk - we need
access to those files, but we don't have the permission to do so. We
requested access...

What we needed was access to those files and just those files. What we were
given was ROOT privileges. Why? Perhaps because we were trusted, but more
likely the IT dept was lazy and poorly trained.

We could go anywhere in the system, read everyone's emails, check out your
personnel records, and - poke around in the Contracting Dept files - and
probably never lose another bid unless we wanted to.

And the very people hired to guard the system gave us access to the whole
system - we were Root, we were God. One can not compromise a system more
than that.
--

Jerry O.

[Bruce]

When you say they are not guilty "of the crime they were doing time for"
that number is probably a lot higher than 1 in 5. For starters,
depending on how you are scoring that qualifier, a crook that commits
attempted murder but is convicted (either trial or guilty plea) of
assault is doing time for a crime other than the one he committed. That
probably accounts for well over half the people who plead guilty.

I used to see DA case files every week with a guilty plea that was
designated to be a "legal fiction." That means the crook was pleading
guilty to a crime he did not commit to avoid conviction of a crime he
might have committed.

And a couple times a month I saw files in which the Deputy DA explained
to his boss that they let the crook plead guilty because there was no
evidence and they couldn't have gotten a conviction.

And those cases were above and beyond the ones where the suspect had
committed no crime at all, but was bullied into pleading guilty in order
to get on with his life.

There is no justice in the criminal justice system.

--
Bruce

"In debates between anarchists and statists, the burden of proof clearly
should rest on those who place their trust in the state. Anarchy's
mayhem is wholly conjectural; the state's mayhem is undeniably,
factually horrendous."~~ Robert Higgs.

[Jerry Osage]

On Thu, 24 May 2018 14:20:52 -0700 (PDT), film...@gmail.com wrote:

>I don't have such a strong trust in the government - Or LE. I think they
>both can get into a discomboobulated sense of winning, or trying to run a
>smooth operation, instead searching for the "truth" about whatever is
>going on. I simply think I'm too unimportant to fool with, or involve in
>whatever big fish they have to fry... YMMV
>
>Just another Nobody
>

Same here, I don't think it affects me. But it could. Technology can be
used for good or evil. Evil is more profitable...

And, the warning of Martin Niemöller still has weight and insight.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
--

Jerry O.