Honda EU2000 and ceramic heat combo OK?
Allan
small sleeping area in a truck with a Honda EU2000 generator (outside
of course) and a thermostaticly controlled ceramic heater (suitably
placed). The ventless heaters aren't safe enough for me while
sleeping, and vented furnaces are not cheap. The generator would also
be real useful for cooking, lighting, etc.
Would the 1500w load cause too much generator wear and tear to use
like this? Using that expensive clean generator power to run a heater?
I'm thinking about 10-20 nights a year useage, not more. It seems
safer than other cheap heaters when its 30F outside and much cheaper
than a generator and vented furnace.
I think I've seen people estimate the generators lasting maybe 2000
hours before rebuild/replacement?
Thanks to everyone and the group--it's been a great resource!
-Allan
GBinNC
>I'd appreciate opinions as to whether or not it's reasonable to heat a
>small sleeping area in a truck with a Honda EU2000 generator (outside
>of course) and a thermostaticly controlled ceramic heater (suitably
>placed).
Yes, it's reasonable -- unless the noise (I know, it's very quiet)
will disturb others around you. Then it's unreasonable regardless of
any other factors.
>The generator would also be real useful for cooking, lighting, etc.
To say nothing of recharging batteries, etc.
>Would the 1500w load cause too much generator wear and tear to use
>like this?
Nope. That's what it was intended for. Work it, don't baby it.
>Using that expensive clean generator power to run a heater?
Was that a question? <g> Expensive to buy, yes; expensive to use, no.
My Honda EU3000i (used for home standby power) ran for six hours
straight with an average load of probably 1500 watts -- and used
exactly one gallon of gas. Pretty cheap power, if you ask me ($.25/hr
or so, at current gas prices). It was on the Eco-throttle setting, of
course.
>I think I've seen people estimate the generators lasting maybe 2000
>hours before rebuild/replacement?
Don't know what the prediction is for the Hondas. Probably even longer
than that. The 2000 hrs. is often quoted relative to Onans.
The main key to generator longevity -- other than proper maintenance,
of course -- is lots of use. Don't let it sit for long periods without
a long period of exercise (with a load). The more you use it, the more
you'll be able to count on it when you need it.
GB in NC
TBFisher
http://www.espar.com/htm/Specs/water/wterheat.htm
I bought a Hydronic 10 from
http://www.tereckdiesel.com/home.htm
I got a very good price and I'm very pleased
with the H10.
Tom Fisher
Dallas,TX
"Allan" <bo...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:bCjpPU6PO+kvhoBH4pwvioyGG=W...@4ax.com...
Pete Dumbleton
1,500 Watts, and can maybe run it on econo-throttle.
Personally, I rely on a good sleeping bag (and a watchcap in real col,
choosing to heat a small area (bag) over a larger one (whole trailer),
just as heating a small area (trailer) is more efficient than a larger
one (entire campground).
When I get up, I fire up the pre-filled coffee pot on the stove and
the ventfree heater and it's all warm in not much time, but there's
not a whole lot of volume in a Scamp 13'. I have water in a jug in
case my water line freezes overnite (it is only tubing, routed around
the rear wall under the benches where it gets cold first; if I expect
it to be cold, I set the hand pump so the line is mostly drained).
The RatLadies have plenty of bedding material to stuf inside their
milk jug to make a cozy bedroom, plus I carry a couple of chemical
handwarmers that I can put under their cage in extreme weather.
Pete and RatLadies
GBinNC <GBi...@yahoooo.com> wrote in message news:<qajiuucpv4kcbg5nt...@4ax.com>...
ted harris
> with the H10.
What is a good price?
--
Ted Harris
http://www.tedharris.com
(remove "NOJUNK" from email address listed to reply)
TBFisher
The average quote in the US is ~$1800.
Tereck quoted me $552 for a D5 hydronic.
I highly recommend Tereck as he has been
very helpful and has the best price. I have
no financial interest in his company.
Tom Fisher
Dallas,TX
"ted harris" <poolcue...@tedharris.com> wrote in message
news:rFiG9.21124$EY.10842@fe01...
Frederick
I just recently purchased an EU2000i, I have had an EU3000i for about
two years, and an EM3500 for about 12 years also. The reason I bought it is
that I am using it to provide me with overnght power while I am staying in
my motorhome parked outside the nursing home where my wife is residing. I
will be doing this winter and summer about 2 weeks per month. It provides
power to run the furnace and importantly to provide my mattress heating pad
with power. I have an ONAN 4K generator in the motor home, and it is
supposed to be quiet, but if ONAN's idea of quiet is what this unit produces
then there noisy generators must be at the pain threshold. With the Honda
sitting on the ground there is no noise in the motor home at all. So far it
has worked out fine, and I use the 2000i overnight and leave the thermostat
set to minimum. Next morning I put the thermostat up and also turn the ONAN
(this backs the Honda down to no load) on for as long as it takes to quickly
warm up the area also using a 2000 watt electric radiant heater. You can
hardly hear the Honda running about 50 ft away, but you can definately hear
the Quiet ONAN. Using the ONAN I think I would eventually have complaints
about the noise, but with the 2000i that is most unlikely. This overnight
running will pile the hours on the Honda quickly, but my experience with
Honda generators over the years is that they will more than take it. If
Honda had an inverter type RV generator available I would have installed it
in place of the ONAN tomorrow.
BTW I purchased the 2000i on the internet for $864 including shipping from
Colorado to Wisconsin.
Frederick
"Allan" <bo...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:bCjpPU6PO+kvhoBH4pwvioyGG=W...@4ax.com...
Allan
appreciate it.
-Allan
On Sun, 1 Dec 2002 15:50:25 -0500, "Frederick" <fxy...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
Neon John
>I'd appreciate opinions as to whether or not it's reasonable to heat a
>small sleeping area in a truck with a Honda EU2000 generator (outside
>of course) and a thermostaticly controlled ceramic heater (suitably
>placed). The ventless heaters aren't safe enough for me while
>sleeping, and vented furnaces are not cheap. The generator would also
>be real useful for cooking, lighting, etc.
>
>Would the 1500w load cause too much generator wear and tear to use
>like this? Using that expensive clean generator power to run a heater?
>I'm thinking about 10-20 nights a year useage, not more. It seems
>safer than other cheap heaters when its 30F outside and much cheaper
>than a generator and vented furnace.
Well, the Hydroflame line of small furnaces, specifically the 16k BTU unit,
costs about $400 from here: http://www.marksrv.com/furnace.htm, so getting a
small furnace is cheaper than buying a generator. Mark's RV is a good outfit
to deal with. They had the lowest prices I could find on Hydroflame parts.
I recently bought a valve and Dinosaur control board for my Hydroflame from
them. The Dino board was DOA and they shipped me a new one without waiting for
the old one to be returned. Good folks.
Now that we've established that you're looking for an excuse to buy a Honda
:-), yes it will run a ceramic heater just fine. I use a ceramic heater to
heat my 21 ft rig whenever I have power or am out of propane. The ceramic
heater is only good for about 5k btu so don't expect miracles. Mine will keep
the rig warm down to about freezing outside. Can't do the job when it gets
colder.
Unless you set the generator some distance from your truck and run a cord
you're probably going to have more exposure to CO from the engine than you
ever would with a ventless or catalytic heater. I know because I tested it,
that the Coleman Black Cat catalytic heater produces essentially zero (below
detectable with my equipment) CO. It makes 6k BTU which is a little more than
a ceramic heater.
In either case you MUST have a CO detector. I recommend the line/battery
powered NightHawk that Sam's Club sells. I have one of those installed
permanently in my rig (lop off the wall tumor and connect 12 volts directly to
the wires. Of course, not recommended by Night Hawk). It has a digital
readout and reads out in whole PPM CO.
Once you have the CO detector installed, the relative risks of various heat
sources become somewhat moot. I personally would NOT fool with lugging out a
generator, cord and heater, fueling it, cranking it and then listening to it
and the heater fan run when I could heat with an absolutely silent catalytic
heater.
>I think I've seen people estimate the generators lasting maybe 2000
>hours before rebuild/replacement?
I've never seen a quoted spec but that seems about right. The EUs are NOT
industrial grade generators. This last fall I started noting a number of EUs
(2000 and 3000's) in use by vendors on the car and craft show circuits
starting to make some engine noise. Specifically, piston slap. In some
cases, lots of slap. These generators get worked all weekend, every weekend
during the fall, spring and sometimes summer seasons so they see a lot more
hours than would one of ours. If you expect to need high hours, I recommend
one of the low speed (1800 rpm) Onans, a diesel Onan or the Honda water cooled
generators. Or just be prepared to toss the generator and replace it after
about a year's run time.
John
---
John De Armond
johngdDO...@bellsouth.net
http://personal.bellsouth.net/~johngd (old)
http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/ (new)
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Frederick
"Neon John" <johngdDO...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:s2mtuukjagdvrkhgk...@4ax.com...
Relative to your comments on CO with an outside generator. In just the
last few days I have been living in my Jayco motor home in Southern Ontario.
The flue hit me and so i stayed in the sac all one day. I had the honda 2200
running at the rear of the unit sitting on the ground. I didn't think about
the exhaust blowing under the unit, and after about 3 hours or so the CO
monitor went off. It didn't take much deduction to realize that the warm
exhaust was rising under the skirt of the MH and then proceeding to
infiltrate the coach body. I ventilated the interior and pointed the
generator away from the skirt and the CO monitor cleared. It proved how
useful it is to have one. The infiltration must have been quite slight, but
the unit caught it. The monitor has no readout and was in the MH when
bought I it.The one I have at home has a readout.
With temperatures down to 12 degF and running a heated mattress pad the
2000 seems to be able to go about 12 hours on one tank of gas (1 gallon),
which sure beats running the bigger Onan all night.The use of the two units
for different purposes seems to work well although it could be a little more
convenient.
Does anyone know how practical it is to tap into the Eu2000 fuel system
and supply it from an external source? Using it regularly as I am,
refuelling it twice a day gets to be a bit of a nuisance. Plus I would
prefer not to carry fuel in the motor home storage compartment even though
it is a fully enclosed compartment. I had in mind putting a T in the supply
to the ONAN with a self sealing connection and a blank cap when not using
the smaller generator.
Frederick
Allan
<johngdDO...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>Well, the Hydroflame line of small furnaces, specifically the 16k BTU unit,
>costs about $400 from here: http://www.marksrv.com/furnace.htm, so getting a
>small furnace is cheaper than buying a generator. Mark's RV is a good outfit
>to deal with. They had the lowest prices I could find on Hydroflame parts.
>I recently bought a valve and Dinosaur control board for my Hydroflame from
>them. The Dino board was DOA and they shipped me a new one without waiting for
>the old one to be returned. Good folks.
That's less than I was thinking but it doesn't make electricity too!
Lots of heat though, makes a better furnace a furnace does... :-)
>
>Now that we've established that you're looking for an excuse to buy a Honda
>:-), yes it will run a ceramic heater just fine. I use a ceramic heater to
>heat my 21 ft rig whenever I have power or am out of propane. The ceramic
>heater is only good for about 5k btu so don't expect miracles. Mine will keep
>the rig warm down to about freezing outside. Can't do the job when it gets
>colder.
I guess so. The EU appears to offer so much convenience and comfort
options for the 20-30 days a year I find myself "camping". I can take
and use any 110v thing I already own: coffee maker, power tools,
little TV. Sometimes its 30 at night, so a little heater, etc.
I plan a little test today with the extension cord & heater at home to
see how far the 5000 BTU goes. Even a 30 degree temperature rise would
be fine.
>
>Unless you set the generator some distance from your truck and run a cord
>you're probably going to have more exposure to CO from the engine than you
>ever would with a ventless or catalytic heater. I know because I tested it,
>that the Coleman Black Cat catalytic heater produces essentially zero (below
>detectable with my equipment) CO. It makes 6k BTU which is a little more than
>a ceramic heater.
But do you sleep safely with the Black Cat & CO detector running and
window cracked? I'm not arguing just asking because I like safety.
Now I actually have thought about the CO from the generator engine
getting into the truck. I considered a generator storage box under the
floor, even running it in there but the exhaust would rise and enter
and fill the truck! Could I pipe it out and up safely? Lots of issues
I know. Brazed, welded or threated pipe fittings I think. Out and up
where exactly? What do enclosed generator rigs do? All that truck
engine exhaust just vents down low at the rear. That doesn't kill
anyone sitting at idle, though sleeping in an idling vehicle is
different.
I'm not sure I trust myself to pipe exhaust around. I'm not too
serious about this without much more investigation. Please don't start
a safety flaming! CO kills, I know!
>
>In either case you MUST have a CO detector. I recommend the line/battery
>powered NightHawk that Sam's Club sells. I have one of those installed
>permanently in my rig (lop off the wall tumor and connect 12 volts directly to
>the wires. Of course, not recommended by Night Hawk). It has a digital
>readout and reads out in whole PPM CO.
Agreed. Cheap insurance. Got one already. The 12v direct is a good
idea. Little RC filter for transient protection? Perhaps you didn't
put it on the starting battery circuit like I'm thinking of.
>
>Once you have the CO detector installed, the relative risks of various heat
>sources become somewhat moot. I personally would NOT fool with lugging out a
>generator, cord and heater, fueling it, cranking it and then listening to it
>and the heater fan run when I could heat with an absolutely silent catalytic
>heater.
>
>>I think I've seen people estimate the generators lasting maybe 2000
>>hours before rebuild/replacement?
>
>I've never seen a quoted spec but that seems about right. The EUs are NOT
>industrial grade generators. This last fall I started noting a number of EUs
>(2000 and 3000's) in use by vendors on the car and craft show circuits
>starting to make some engine noise. Specifically, piston slap. In some
>cases, lots of slap. These generators get worked all weekend, every weekend
>during the fall, spring and sometimes summer seasons so they see a lot more
>hours than would one of ours. If you expect to need high hours, I recommend
>one of the low speed (1800 rpm) Onans, a diesel Onan or the Honda water cooled
>generators. Or just be prepared to toss the generator and replace it after
>about a year's run time.
I'd be happy with 2000 hours. About $900/2000 = $.45/hour + gas, etc.
Not bad.
Neon John
>>Unless you set the generator some distance from your truck and run a cord
>>you're probably going to have more exposure to CO from the engine than you
>>ever would with a ventless or catalytic heater. I know because I tested it,
>>that the Coleman Black Cat catalytic heater produces essentially zero (below
>>detectable with my equipment) CO. It makes 6k BTU which is a little more than
>>a ceramic heater.
>
>But do you sleep safely with the Black Cat & CO detector running and
>window cracked? I'm not arguing just asking because I like safety.
I'm not one of those folks who goes to extremes so I simply run the black cat,
have a CO detector and sleep very well. I did test the Black Cat to determine
that it makes essentially no CO. I don't open a window simply because my rig
has sufficient air infiltration to keep it nice and fresh. So does my mom's
MH and I suspect so do most of 'em. A cold draft on the floor is a good clue
:-)
>
>Now I actually have thought about the CO from the generator engine
>getting into the truck. I considered a generator storage box under the
>floor, even running it in there but the exhaust would rise and enter
>and fill the truck! Could I pipe it out and up safely? Lots of issues
>I know. Brazed, welded or threated pipe fittings I think. Out and up
>where exactly? What do enclosed generator rigs do? All that truck
>engine exhaust just vents down low at the rear. That doesn't kill
>anyone sitting at idle, though sleeping in an idling vehicle is
>different.
In my Itasca the generator box is a heavy steel box that is completely sealed
from the passenger compartment. The bottom and one side are open to cooling
air. Even the wire penetration is caulked. The exhaust is run out the back
of the rig past the bumper. On my mom's rig, the generator is slung low on a
steel frame but no box. The exhaust simply exits the body right behind the
driver's side door.
Both setups work. I've never seen more than a 10 ppm reading inside the rig
from either setup. I HAVE seen higher readings from the furnace and much
higher readings from the cook stove. I was in my rig last night and it was
cold enough that both the ceramic heater and the Hydroflame had to run a lot.
This morning I had a peak reading of 17 ppm on the NightHawk. This was an
extremely calm night when a heavy blanket of frost settles. Probably worst
case.
When I use my stove I run the Maxxair fan in the bathroom. This pulls air
from the stove across the NightHawk. It's not unusual to see 200 ppm or more
after boiling water for coffee.
Point I'm making is, you simply can't rely on rules of thumb. Relatively
minor changes in ambient conditions can greatly change the CO level in an
enclosed space like an RV or pickup shell. The only reasonably safe (I'm
beginning to hate that word) method is to have a good CO detector and then
take reasonable precautions. Set the genny away from the truck. Or if you
mount it on the truck, seal it airtight from the living spaces and pipe the
exhaust outward, preferably pointing away from the rig so that inertia can
carry it farther away.
>Agreed. Cheap insurance. Got one already. The 12v direct is a good
>idea. Little RC filter for transient protection? Perhaps you didn't
>put it on the starting battery circuit like I'm thinking of.
I opened the thing up and analyzed the circuit. It looks fairly robust, with
a full wave bridge and then a surge suppressor on the incoming line. I put no
protection on it. It's on the house battery which is connected to the
cranking battery when underway and which cranks the genny. No problems so
far. Of course, NightHawk would have a shitfit at this mod, I'm sure, but it
works for me. If you wanted some isolation, one of those tiny 120 volt
inverters meant to power laptops would do the trick.