Generator for 17' Bigfoot
Greg Grosz
It's an 11,000 BTU unit, the manual says I need a 2.5 KW minimum generator.
That would rule out the Honda 2000 unless I get two and run in parallel. The
Honda 3000 weighs 134# dry, too much for me to pick up. Are there other
generators that weigh less that would work?
Greg
Scout
Some here are claiming to run a 13,500 on the EU2000 with no problems. I
stalled a Honda 2.5 KW with my 13,500.
No where does Honda say it's ok to start-peak at 50+ amps on either of these
gennys.
I'm waiting to see what others say, but I'm more inclined to believe what
Honda recommends.
Scout
"Greg Grosz" <gr...@sprintmail.com> wrote in message
news:BB139338.19520%gr...@sprintmail.com...
Chris Bryant
Do you have an existing compartment? I'm hoping that Neon John
will see this- as he (IIRC) bought a Generac Impact 3600 a while back
(cheap- a reconditioned one)- and it would seem to fill the bill-
around 80-90 lbs, very small, but it needs to be installed in a
compartment.
--
Chris Bryant
Bryant RV Services- http://www.bryantrv.com
Camping Guy
the AC. You've got an 11,000 BTU, so that *should* be even easier to run.
I've even been able to get the compressor to kick in even on the Eco
Throttle mode (although just barely). However, if I hook it to 100 feet of
heavy duty extension cord, then the compressor won't start in Eco Throttle
mode (but will start with it off). Too much loss in the wire I guess. And
by the way...I've got the fan running up to speed before I engage the
compressor.
I've done some reading on this and I get the impression from some posts that
the AC draws more juice in really hot weather for some reason and may cause
this generator to stall. If anyone can elaborate on that, I'd be
interested. Anyway, we haven't had any hot weather in Chicago since I
bought this stuff so I haven't been able to independently verify that.
Also, this generator looses power with altitude (as I presume anything with
an engine does). I'm at 600 feet. It's unknown how well it might power the
AC at higher elevations. I'm going to New Mexico in a couple weeks so I
should be able to get a feel for what its limitations are.
Lastly, this thing is very quiet. This thing can produce *at least* 300 or
400 watts of power at idle and with the ambient noise of suburbia, you can
not tell it's on at 100 feet if the muffler is pointed in the opposite
direction. Amazing. At full roar with the air running at max and the
muffler pointed at you at 100 feet, you know it's on but the noise is not
obnoxious. And it only weighs 55 pounds with a full tank of gas. It's like
a little suitcase. I suppose this might be ample evidence that I have no
life when portable Japanese generators make me swoon.
--
Camping Guy
1999 Jayco Eagle 12 ST
2000 Toyota Tundra
"Greg Grosz" <gr...@sprintmail.com> wrote in message
news:BB139338.19520%gr...@sprintmail.com...
Mike
al...@omnicast.net
wrote:
You might look at the YamahaYG2800i 2800 watt jenny @66 pounds.
Here is a link to new one on Ebay, just to get an idea.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2537860558&category=11771
Tom
Scout
which it's boiling/condensing point is higher than the outdoor air
temperature. That means as the temp goes up, the pressure must go up or the
'freon' will not condense back into a liquid, and the system will no longer
work. There is a direct relationship between pressure and current (amps).
When the (head) pressure increases in response to rising air temps, the
motor amperage increases as well.
Scout
"Camping Guy" <ca...@nospam.guy> wrote
Ralph Lindberg
Chris Bryant <Bryan...@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
As I recall the BigFoot, there is nothing large enough (it's made in
B.C.)
--
Personal email n7...@amsat.org (@callsign.net's a SPAM trap)
Camping Guy
--
Camping Guy
1999 Jayco Eagle 12 ST
2000 Toyota Tundra
"Scout" <call...@likeiseeum.com> wrote in message
news:_d-dnVZQZM8...@comcast.com...
Dapper Dave
>No where does Honda say it's ok to start-peak at 50+ amps on either of these
>gennys
50+ amps? Wouldn't the campground 30 amp circuit breaker blow if this
were true? The 13,500 BTU units in my rig each draw a little over 20
amps with starting, and around 9 when running. At least that's what
the display on the energy management system shows.
Is there a lot of variation in what various 13,500 BTU units draw at
startup?
When we had our fifth wheel, I ran the 13,500 BTU A/C from my EU2000
occasionally. I used a very short heavy duty extension cord, and it
was never terrifically hot outside (if that matters). It clearly
worked it hard at startup, but after that it didn't work it as hard
as, say the electric element in the hot water heater.
Scout
I'm more of an air conditioning tech than a generator tech, so maybe someone
with more experience in that end could help us out. But there are a few
things I'm sure of. The 30 amp breaker in the campground won't trip unless
it sees a sustained draw in excess of 30 amps. High starting amps are normal
and expected even though the wiring and breaker are sized for normal running
loads, and not sustained starting current. With a generator, however, the
literature I've read suggests that the max current rating should not be less
than the actual starting amps. Although I got my 13,500 to start with the
EU2000, I'm not sure it won't cause damage if I use it this way for extended
periods of time. My 5,200 btu/h is no problem at all, as its start current
is within the generator's max limit.
Something seems out of line with the 20 starting amps you referred to on
your unit. Are those numbers stamped on the unit or are they actaul
readings on a meter?
My 13,500 draws about 17 amps at full load. I don't think they've invented
an AC motor yet that wouldn't draw at least 3 or 4 times its full load amps
on startup, which would put you (and me) in the ballpark of 50+ amps on the
start. A 13,500 compressor should run somewhere near 17 amps or so at full
load. 9 amps is an incredibly low full load number for a unit that size. If
using a meter, have you had it calibrated recently? I would like to figure
this puzzle out. And I'd really like to use my EU2000, but I don't want to
damage it either. I'm trying to get an answer from Honda, but they so far
have just said to refer to the specs for maximum current allowed. In other
words, surpass the rating numbers at the user's risk?
Scout
"Dapper Dave" <expur...@hotmail.com> wrote
Dapper Dave
I'm more of a retired computer weenie than I am an air conditioning
tech OR a generator tech, so I'll certainly defer to your expertise.
But, two things:
First, I got to thinking about the "13,500 BTU" A/C unit that I had
in my fiver, the one I ran with the EU2000. So I went back through my
records and found that it was a Duo-Therm 59516, which the following
site says is a 15,000 BTU unit:
http://www.rjays.com/AC_units/AC_Main1.htm
Second, to answer your question, the 20 amp starting draw that I
quoted is from a digital readout in the energy management system in my
motor home. This system is activated when plugged in to anything less
than 50 amp shore power. It shows the current draw (no pun intended),
and when the draw exceeds the capacity of the supply for more than a
few seconds, it starts shutting down circuits. First it shuts off the
electric hot water, then the rear AC, then the washer/dryer circuit
(which we don't have), then the front AC. When the load drops, it
restores those circuits in order.
For example, when we were in Tennessee for a week with 30 amp service,
it would shut off the electric hot water when the second air
conditioner started up. If I shut off everything I could, it would
show a draw of 2 amps. Start up either A/C, and the load would jump to
around 20-24 amps for a few seconds, then drop to 11 amps. Once one
A/C was running, I could (and often did) start up the second A/C. With
both running, it would show around 22 amps. Start up the microwave,
and there goes the rear A/C. The air conditioners are Duo-Therm 13,500
BTU, model 630035.321.
I am certainly prepared to believe that the amperage readout on the
energy management system is wrong, but the fact that I ran both A/Cs
for hours at a time from a 30 amp hookup suggests that their draw is
well under the 17 amps each that yours is.
Getting back to the real question at hand -- running a 13,500 A/C from
an EU2000 -- could the success I had running a 15,000 BTU unit be due
to the fact that it was never more than around 80 degrees outside
while I was using it? Also, wasn't there an "overload" light on that
unit? Did it illuminate when you tried it?
That generator is such a nice unit, I hope it is capable of doing what
you need it to do.
Scout
I checked out the website with the duotherms. Only thing I can say is it
must be a very efficient unit, which is just a matter of making the outdoor
coil bigger, which lowers head pressure and compressor amperage. I must
have a "builder's model" LOL
I'm going to keep experimenting unless Honda gives me some hard data. Might
as well try it out while it's under warranty!
Scout
"Dapper Dave" <expur...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
'snipped'
Cool Hand
wrote:
=>>"Scout" <call...@likeiseeum.com> wrote:
=>
=>>No where does Honda say it's ok to start-peak at 50+ amps on either of these
=>>gennys
=>
=>
=>50+ amps? Wouldn't the campground 30 amp circuit breaker blow if this
=>were true? The 13,500 BTU units in my rig each draw a little over 20
=>amps with starting, and around 9 when running. At least that's what
=>the display on the energy management system shows.
=>
=>Is there a lot of variation in what various 13,500 BTU units draw at
=>startup?
Yes, newer models even with same BTU use less power.
=>
=>When we had our fifth wheel, I ran the 13,500 BTU A/C from my EU2000
=>occasionally. I used a very short heavy duty extension cord, and it
=>was never terrifically hot outside (if that matters). It clearly
=>worked it hard at startup, but after that it didn't work it as hard
=>as, say the electric element in the hot water heater.
---
Since people makes mistakes, anything related to people could be flawed?????
Cool Hand
=>You might look at the YamahaYG2800i 2800 watt jenny @66 pounds.
=>Here is a link to new one on Ebay, just to get an idea.
=>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2537860558&category=11771
=>
=>Tom
I like the following link the most.
<http://www.yamahagenerators.com/yamaha/ef2800i.htm?cart=105588673410778>
She is still smiling and not hurting her back(I hope!). :-)
al...@omnicast.net
>On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:09:12 -0700, al...@omnicast.net wrote:
>
>=>You might look at the YamahaYG2800i 2800 watt jenny @66 pounds.
>=>Here is a link to new one on Ebay, just to get an idea.
>=>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2537860558&category=11771
>=>
>=>Tom
>
>I like the following link the most.
><http://www.yamahagenerators.com/yamaha/ef2800i.htm?cart=105588673410778>
>She is still smiling and not hurting her back(I hope!). :-)
>
Wonder if she would like to be a wife? I could use somebody with
strength like that, and dumb enough to pick up a generator like that!
Tom
Paul
wrote:
>I'd like to get a generator to power my 17' Bigfoot, primarily for the A/C.
Greg: I use a Honda EU2000i to power my 13 ft 9 in Shadow Cruiser,
including its 11000 BTU DuoTherm Air Conditioner. Works just fine,
even in our high nineties temperatures here in SW Florida. Been using
it on weekend trips for nearly a year.
It will run with the Eco throttle enabled, or disabled. I prefer to
leave the Eco disabled when feeding the A/C; it just seems to be less
strain on both the generator and the air conditioner whenever the
compressor starts up.
I love the quietness of this generator, plus the ability of one person
to lift it onto a tailgate easily.
Paul M. -- W4SXD
Camping Guy
on mine with the compressor running on a 13,500 BTU AC. Although when I ran
that test, the outside temperature was around 75 with very little humidity.
When I would engage the compressor, it would very briefly spike to around 20
amps and then fall to about 11 amps.
Scout...in another post above this one...you mentioned you were more of an
air conditioner tech and I've got two questions I was wondering if might
take a shot at answering. One is, on this new AC I have, the compressor
won't stay on very long when the temperature falls below 70 (even though the
thermostat is turned to the coldest setting). My concern is that if I want
to use it at night somewhere where the humidity is high, it won't stay on
long enough to suck out the water from the air. Is this a problem? Can
this be adjusted somehow?
My other question...what is the expected vent temperature coming out of an
auto AC and how much time should it take to get to whatever temperature that
is. I'm suspicious my auto AC might be getting weak.
--
Camping Guy
1999 Jayco Eagle 12 ST
2000 Toyota Tundra
"Scout" <call...@likeiseeum.com> wrote in message
news:wCGdnbbKrsQ...@comcast.com...
Scout
When i was testing my EU2000 yesterday, I had to heat up the thermostat with
a hair dryer to get the compressor to come on, even though it was in the mid
70's. Most non-commercial systems (homes, RVs) are designed to cool at
temps somewhere in the mid 70's and up. They are simple designs, and work
well, but if either the indoor OR outdoor temp is below design conditions,
the unit will start having problems, such as icing up the indoor coil, or
overheating the compressor due to high superheat of the return gas.
Commercial systems use any of several different techniques to counter this,
because cooling or dehumidifying is critical even when it is cool outside
(e.g., computer rooms, pharmaceuticals, hospitals, labs, print shops, etc.).
They use devices such as outdoor fan speed controllers, hot gas bypass
valves, cylinder unloaders, etc, to keep the coils from freezing. Our RV
systems just aren't that fancy. The designers keep them from freezing by
keeping them off with thermostats and sometimes they will place a
freeze-stat on the indoor coil (shuts compressor off if icing conditions are
sensed).
If you really needed some serious humidity control, you could always run the
cooling and the heating at the same time. As wasteful as this sounds, this
is a very common technique for dehumidifying in commercial applications. And
if you have ever seen a small dehumidifier, you might have noticed that they
blow out warmish air, because they are first cooling it, and then reheating
it. The room temperature doesn't change much but the moisture is reduced.
My old technical instructor used to tell us to never say "never" or "always"
because as soon as we do, we're probably going to be looking at the one
exception, and we'd be wrong. So with that in mind: the 20 amp spike you
saw on your radio shack DM is PROBABLY (LOL) not a true indicator of actual
starting current intensity. Even my high dollar meters (Flukes) don't catch
the true spike because it is so fast (on a healthy system). The spike is so
fast that it typically doesn't register fully, and the reading you get is a
partial 'deflection' (for lack of a better word). If you're drawing 11
amps while running you can pretty much figure the spike is really hitting 45
to 55 amps. Look for a rating on the compressor (or in the specs) where LRA
(locked rotor amps) is specified. This will give you a ballpark idea of the
starting current. The FLA (full load amps) or RLA (running load amps) is
your normal operating current (but only at FULL load, i.e., a very hot day).
Not knowing if my EU2000 could handle this spike is what pulled me into this
thread in the beginning. According to Honda, the spike is way above the max
allowable, but it is working, and I can't argue with that. There must be a
surge limit, but Honda isn't saying what it is. And the max amperage number
they list is apparently not referring to starting current.
I can't help you much with the auto systems, I only fart around with my own.
I can tell you that they have a different set of rules as far as
temperatures in and out are concerned. The split (difference between air in
and air out temps) is usually much higher. Non-automobile systems, like
your RV or home, are typically expected to have a supply temperature that is
18 to 22 degrees below the return air temperature (depending on humidity
conditions). I'm sure there are some auto techs here who can give you a more
technical answer for your car. My discharge air temps in my car, however,
are typically 30 to 35 degrees cooler than the return air.
Hope this helps,
Scout
Dapper Dave
when my A/C kicks on.
It's great to have someone who actually knows what he's talking about
contributing to this group. Maybe you and Chris and Alan could start
an "RV electrics" support forum.
Camping Guy
--
Camping Guy
1999 Jayco Eagle 12 ST
2000 Toyota Tundra
"Scout" <call...@likeiseeum.com> wrote in message
news:4B6cnUOU-un...@comcast.com...
Neon John
Are you open to installing a built-in unit? If so there are two small units
that will do the job. The first is the new Onan generator designed for small
rigs. I think it is the "Camper" or something like that. 2.5kw as I recall.
The other, what I have in my small MH is the Generac Impulse
(http://www.guardiangenerators.com/products/RV_features.asp?NavID=1) inverter
generator. It is rated at 3600 watts (30 amps, 120 volts) and is quite light
weight and small. Like the Hondas it is a variable speed unit with a true
sine wave inverter producing the 120 volts.
I've had mine about 6 months with about 250 hours on the clock and really like
it. It is large enough to run the microwave and the AC at the same time, and
perhaps a coffee maker, and yet throttles down at light loads for superb fuel
economy. I can REALLY tell the difference on a long dry camping weekend
between this one and the Onan AJ I replaced or the Onan 4kw constant speed
unit (Emerald, I think) in my mother's MH. It did take awhile to get used to
the engine throttling up and down each time the thermostat operated but I have
now and sleep right through it.
There was only one thing I didn't like about this unit and that was easily
fixed. It has a built-in muffler which has a flat bottom that resonates to
the exhaust note. I fixed that by tack-welding a length of 1/4" black iron
pipe filled with lead shot to the bottom of the muffler. Lead is a superb
vibration damper and almost completely eliminated this resonance. I went
ahead and made up an adapter to hook up the old Onan exhaust and muffler.
Literally no sound comes out the exhaust now. The only noise is mechanical
and a little intake noise.
the whole package only weighs a hundred pounds (the three phase alternator is
built into the flywheel so no additional weight of a separate generator) so it
is feasible to use thing as a portable. It has its own electric fuel pump so
you could just stick a gas line into a 5 gal tank. Or plumb it into your tow
vehicle's fuel system if it is gas. One of those little booster start packs
would crank it. I set the generator up like that to break it in and load test
it for awhile before installing it in the rig.
Compared to either of my Onans, this generator's output is VERY clean. The
voltage dips a little, maybe 3 volts, which a major change in load but the
frequency is dead-nuts on 60 hz. I measured the THD at <1% which is better
than the local utility power. No hum or buzz at all even in an AM radio.
One other feature. I broke the engine in for 10 hours with standard 10W30 oil
as recommended. I drained that oil and refilled with Mobil 1 synthetic like I
do all my air cooled engines. In the approximately 240 hours hence it has
used zero oil. Nadda. Nothing. The level has not moved on the stick and
with the full flow filter system, the oil is still clean. That's the best oil
consumption I've ever experienced on an air-cooled engine.
John
---
John De Armond
johngdDO...@bellsouth.net
http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Scout
thanks for the kind words
Jon Porter
"Neon John" <johngdDO...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:qrq2fv417l4pvifn7...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:30:52 GMT, Greg Grosz <gr...@sprintmail.com> wrote:
>
> >I'd like to get a generator to power my 17' Bigfoot, primarily for the
A/C.
> >It's an 11,000 BTU unit, the manual says I need a 2.5 KW minimum
generator.
> >That would rule out the Honda 2000 unless I get two and run in parallel.
The
> >Honda 3000 weighs 134# dry, too much for me to pick up. Are there other
> >generators that weigh less that would work?
>
> Are you open to installing a built-in unit? If so there are two small
units
> that will do the job. The first is the new Onan generator designed for
small
> rigs. I think it is the "Camper" or something like that. 2.5kw as I
recall.
>
> The other, what I have in my small MH is the Generac Impulse
> (http://www.guardiangenerators.com/products/RV_features.asp?NavID=1)
inverter
> generator. It is rated at 3600 watts (30 amps, 120 volts) and is quite
light
> weight and small. Like the Hondas it is a variable speed unit with a true
> sine wave inverter producing the 120 volts.
The issue there with a 17' camper is loosing space to the generator and a
fuel tank to supply it. Both of the generators you mentioned are about the
same size as the Microlite that I installed in my Class B. I lost an outside
storage compartment to it, but the trade off has been worth it to me.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Jon Porter
>
> >I'd like to get a generator to power my 17' Bigfoot, primarily for the
A/C.
> >It's an 11,000 BTU unit, the manual says I need a 2.5 KW minimum
generator.
> >That would rule out the Honda 2000 unless I get two and run in parallel.
The
> >Honda 3000 weighs 134# dry, too much for me to pick up. Are there other
> >generators that weigh less that would work?
>
> Are you open to installing a built-in unit? If so there are two small
units
> that will do the job. The first is the new Onan generator designed for
small
> rigs. I think it is the "Camper" or something like that. 2.5kw as I
recall.
You are referring to the Camp Power Generator, which can be viewed on the
Onan web site. I had a chance for a "hands on" look at one of those last
weekend on my visit to Camping World. It has the same dimensions as the
Microlite, except that it is shorter because the muffler hangs underneath
the genny compartment instead of inside the case like in the Microlite. Same
performance characteristics otherwise compared to the Microlite.
Keep in mind that with a built in generator you'll also need a fuel tank for
it, which will cost you another storage compartment. Onan has those fuel
tanks as well. For that reason, there are are propane gensets.