Non-absorption Refrigeration
Neon John
conventional absorption refrigeration for RVs. Tonight I was
prowling around and found this site:
They sell 12 volt powered, conventional cycle (R-134a) refrigeration
units for marine use. Looks like it would work well for an RV.
Sizes range from 4.5 amps to 40 amps draw.
John
--
John De Armond
johngd...@bellsouth.net
http://neonjohn.4mg.com
Neon John's Custom Neon
Cleveland, TN
"Bendin' Glass 'n Passin' Gas"
Ralph Lindberg & Ellen Winnie
<johngd...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> There was a lot of talk a few weeks ago about alternatives to
> conventional absorption refrigeration for RVs. Tonight I was
> prowling around and found this site:
>
> http://www.seafrost.com/
>
> They sell 12 volt powered, conventional cycle (R-134a) refrigeration
> units for marine use. Looks like it would work well for an RV.
> Sizes range from 4.5 amps to 40 amps draw.
We've had several RVers report install them. They tend to work best in
enviroments were the RVer has a lot of DC power and/or is usually
plugged in.
While the do draw a lot of current, unlike heat-pipe they don't run
full time. Unlike absoprtion they don't run nearly full time.
They certainly can be a sound idea
--
Ralph Lindberg personal email n7...@amsat.org
RV and Camping FAQ http://kendaco.telebyte.com/rlindber/rv
If Windows is the answer I would really like to know what the question is
sbourg
<johngd...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>There was a lot of talk a few weeks ago about alternatives to
>conventional absorption refrigeration for RVs. Tonight I was
>prowling around and found this site:
>
>http://www.seafrost.com/
>
>They sell 12 volt powered, conventional cycle (R-134a)
refrigeration
>units for marine use. Looks like it would work well for an RV.
>Sizes range from 4.5 amps to 40 amps draw.
I searched this site and found no self-contained units - only
components for the actual refrigeration. You supply your own
refrigerator and freezer 'boxes' I guess. There are suppliers of
complete 12V compressor-type refrigerator/freezers out there, as
well as conversion components for AC-powered models.
Steve
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Scott Leahy
<rlin...@kendaco.telebyte.com> said:
>In article <38A25EB4...@bellsouth.net>, Neon John
><johngd...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>> There was a lot of talk a few weeks ago about alternatives to
>> conventional absorption refrigeration for RVs. Tonight I was
>> prowling around and found this site:
>>
>> http://www.seafrost.com/
>>
>> They sell 12 volt powered, conventional cycle (R-134a) refrigeration
>> units for marine use. Looks like it would work well for an RV.
>> Sizes range from 4.5 amps to 40 amps draw.
>
> We've had several RVers report install them. They tend to work best in
>enviroments were the RVer has a lot of DC power and/or is usually
>plugged in.
> While the do draw a lot of current, unlike heat-pipe they don't run
>full time. Unlike absoprtion they don't run nearly full time.
> They certainly can be a sound idea
Our Phasar (LeSharo) came equipped with one. It was small, but it
worked great and we never had a problem with it.
sle...@ohnayamspay.ridgenet.net
(For email, ixnay the igpay atinlay)
Bob Clerc
> In article <38A25EB4...@bellsouth.net>, Neon John
> <johngd...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> > There was a lot of talk a few weeks ago about alternatives to
> > conventional absorption refrigeration for RVs. Tonight I was
> > prowling around and found this site:
> >
> > http://www.seafrost.com/
> >
> > They sell 12 volt powered, conventional cycle (R-134a) refrigeration
> > units for marine use. Looks like it would work well for an RV.
> > Sizes range from 4.5 amps to 40 amps draw.
>
> We've had several RVers report install them. They tend to work best in
> enviroments were the RVer has a lot of DC power and/or is usually
> plugged in.
> While the do draw a lot of current, unlike heat-pipe they don't run
> full time. Unlike absoprtion they don't run nearly full time.
> They certainly can be a sound idea
Two other sources of non-absorption marine/RV reefers are
http://www.sunfrost.com
http://www.novakool.com
Nova Kool uses a danfoss compressor and their claim is for something like 45
amp hrs for 24 hours on a 100 degree day. Believe that is a 6 cu ft reefer. 45
amp hours sounds to me workable with 4x6v golf carts. With solar it should be a
piece of cake.
--
Bob Clerc mailto:kerk...@escapees.com In the Mountains of Central NM
SKP#44893 SMART#7666 BoA#1252 FMCA#85268 GS#204497
RVClub#R-Char-134 TTN RPI 36.06.87N/106.22.89W
Cartan
>There are suppliers of
>complete 12V compressor-type refrigerator/freezers out there, as
>well as conversion components for AC-powered models.
Do you think a "dorm" type AC fridge (compressor) hooked up to a
DC/AC converter could work? (Draws less than 2 Amp @ 120 V AC)
Can
the refrigerators designed for a home withstand the environment
of
bouncing around in a trailer or MH? (With the obvious addition of
a door latch and bolted to the floor.) I replaced my RV fridge
with a Sears 9 cu ft model in a permanently parked trailer; a
great solution. A lot less expensive, cools down quicker, no
detrimental effects noticed in three years on the plastic
interior
due to frequent cycling of the internal temp of the box from room
temp to cooling temps. But I wonder how the compressor would
stand up to road vibration if the trailer was towed.
Cartan
W F Sill
>Do you think a "dorm" type AC fridge (compressor) hooked up to a
>DC/AC converter could work? (Draws less than 2 Amp @ 120 V AC)
>Can
>the refrigerators designed for a home withstand the environment
>of
>bouncing around in a trailer or MH? (With the obvious addition of
>a door latch and bolted to the floor.) I replaced my RV fridge
>with a Sears 9 cu ft model in a permanently parked trailer; a
>great solution. A lot less expensive, cools down quicker, no
>detrimental effects noticed in three years on the plastic
>interior
>due to frequent cycling of the internal temp of the box from room
>temp to cooling temps. But I wonder how the compressor would
>stand up to road vibration if the trailer was towed.
I *think* this author is one who brags about having me in his twit
filter. Too bad, because it happens we are one of the rare rv'ers who
has an apartment fridge in our rv. We too are concerned about the
long-term effects of vibration en route but thus far have no trouble.
It runs off our 1500w Heart inverter on the road and of course from
shore power when we are plugged in. Dramatically less expensive than
the usual propane/electric fridge and works better too. I can't
recommend it to everyone, not only because of the risk of vibration
damage but it would run the batteries down in prolonged boondocking
unless you had a means of keeping the batteries up.
Will KD3XR - Unofficial Mayor of Sill Hill
George Lowry
>^v-travel:13396
>
To my knowledge, there are at least three "freon cycle" "compressor
type" refrigerators designed for RV use on the market. These are made
by Norcold, Sun Frost, and Nova Kool. All can be perused on the web.
We have the Norcold and it works great. No worry about being level
and it cools faster and harder than the absorbtion types. The one
downside is that it uses 9 amps of 12 VDC when operating. The Sun
Frost uses only 2.3 amps and with the superior insulation, runs very
seldom. It is used the world over in remote places and is powered with
a single solar panel. Disadvantage is that it does not fit into the
standard space in an RV. (It is 27 inches deep rather than the
standard 24")
I am not familiar with the specs on the Nova Kool since it came out
after we designed our coach. There was another made by a JT in Oregon
that was quite efficient and fit in the RV standard space but he went
out of business several years ago..
George
sbourg
<cartanN...@my-deja.com.invalid> wrote:
>Do you think a "dorm" type AC fridge (compressor) hooked up to a
>DC/AC converter could work? (Draws less than 2 Amp @ 120 V AC)
>Can
>the refrigerators designed for a home withstand the environment
>of
>bouncing around in a trailer or MH? (With the obvious addition
of
>a door latch and bolted to the floor.) I replaced my RV fridge
>with a Sears 9 cu ft model in a permanently parked trailer; a
>great solution. A lot less expensive, cools down quicker, no
>detrimental effects noticed in three years on the plastic
>interior
>due to frequent cycling of the internal temp of the box from
room
>temp to cooling temps. But I wonder how the compressor would
>stand up to road vibration if the trailer was towed.
>
>Cartan
>
No experience here, Cartan, but 2A at 120VAC is at least 22A draw
by the inverter at 12VDC, neglecting power-factor issues. The key
is how often and HOW the batteries are recharged, and how often
the fridge is cycling on. Not likely to be practical unless you
are on the move a lot, because it would take a huge solar array
to keep up.
Steve
Al
George Lowry wrote:
>
> To my knowledge, there are at least three "freon cycle" "compressor
> type" refrigerators designed for RV use on the market. These are made
> by Norcold, Sun Frost, and Nova Kool. All can be perused on the web.
>
> We have the Norcold and it works great. No worry about being level
> and it cools faster and harder than the absorbtion types. The one
> downside is that it uses 9 amps of 12 VDC when operating. The Sun
> Frost uses only 2.3 amps and with the superior insulation, runs very
> seldom. It is used the world over in remote places and is powered with
> a single solar panel. Disadvantage is that it does not fit into the
> standard space in an RV. (It is 27 inches deep rather than the
> standard 24")
>
> I am not familiar with the specs on the Nova Kool since it came out
> after we designed our coach. There was another made by a JT in Oregon
> that was quite efficient and fit in the RV standard space but he went
> out of business several years ago..
>
> George
I have a NovaKool in my truck camper. This is the seconf one I've had it
in, I move it to different campers as I get them. when I sell the original
fridge goes back in. Works great, draws about 5 amps. I wouldn't have
another absorption type in a highly mobile type rv, ie truck camper or
motorhome. Sure is nice never worrying about where I park, if it is level
etc.
Al
Mike Niemela
vibration and bouncing of being in an RV has come up.
IME running an HVAC business for a number of years we saw a lot of can
type compressors used on mobile equipment of one type or another. Saw a
few domestic fridges in "hot dog and hamburger" trailers. Don't recall
seeing any failures I would attribute to the bouncing around of the
equipment.
Most common cause of failure was using a sharp instrument to speed
defrosting (coil punctures) followed closely by failure to keep the
machine clean.
We use a domestic fridge in our fiver and find it much better than the
three way unit it replaced.
Best
Mike N
W F Sill
>The question of compressor driven refrigerators being able to stand the
>vibration and bouncing of being in an RV has come up.
>
>IME running an HVAC business for a number of years we saw a lot of can
>type compressors used on mobile equipment of one type or another. Saw a
>few domestic fridges in "hot dog and hamburger" trailers. Don't recall
>seeing any failures I would attribute to the bouncing around of the
>equipment.
Thanx for that reassurance, Mike. I've cautioned people on that
point, but not because I had any evidence of vibration-induced failure
but simply because we are using an appliance "in a fashion not
intended". One always accepts some risk when using a screwdriver as a
pry bar, if you get my drift.
For the benefit of those considering such things, our research
suggested that the 12v compressor type rv/marine refrigerators use a
lot less power but of course cost a lot more. I seem to recall some
of them use as little as 5a when running, whereas our 120v apartment
unit (working through the inverter) pulls around 20a off the
batteries. Not a big deal for us but might be for those doing extended
boondocking.
Tom Pettit
>
> >
> > To my knowledge, there are at least three "freon cycle" "compressor
> > type" refrigerators designed for RV use on the market. These are made
> > by Norcold, Sun Frost, and Nova Kool. All can be perused on the web.
> >
Another brand out there is CMACM. They are in Sheridan Montana and make all
sorts of 12 volt appliances for RV and off-grid use. I bought their 5.4
cubic foot 12 volt refrigerator freezer. It uses a Danfoss 12/24 volt
brushless DC compressor. CMACM simply takes a variety of small
refrigerators and retrofits them with the DC compressor. Sizes tend to not
fit regular RV spaces, but according to CMACM tests, the unit I have uses
only 40 amper-hours per 24 hour period at an ambient temperature of 70 F.
The cooling capacity is about twice to three times that of an equal sized
absorbsion unit, so it cools down fast and can handle the warm six pack just
fine. I haven't had this unit long, so my experience is limited.
I have had a lot of problems with poor service from CMACM, so that is the
down side.
Tom
Al
W F Sill wrote:
>
>
> For the benefit of those considering such things, our research
> suggested that the 12v compressor type rv/marine refrigerators use a
> lot less power but of course cost a lot more. I seem to recall some
> of them use as little as 5a when running, whereas our 120v apartment
> unit (working through the inverter) pulls around 20a off the
> batteries. Not a big deal for us but might be for those doing extended
> boondocking.
>
>
Actually my NovaKool cost LESS than a comparably sized absorption unit. As I
mentioned in another reply draw is about 5A, actually a little less.
Al
W F Sill
>Actually my NovaKool cost LESS than a comparably sized absorption unit. As I
>mentioned in another reply draw is about 5A, actually a little less.
I think that's right but put it in perspective: When we were searching
we concluded the cost was a little (not a lot) less than propane/
electric fridges - depending on sizes & features. But both were about
triple the cost of a nice apartment fridge.
Al
W F Sill wrote:
Oh yeah, none of the RV types are cheap! I experimented with a dorm type fridge
and an invertor. While the fridge only took 100 watts or so to run, according to
the spec plate, a 500 watt invertor wouldn't start it! Not wanting to spend big
bucks on a new invertor I went with the 12V type.
Al
Chris Bryant
<2ad60878...@usw-ex0105-038.remarq.com>,Cartan wrote:
<<snip>>
>But I wonder how the compressor would
>stand up to road vibration if the trailer was towed.
For travel rigs, I'm generally against standard household
refrigerators, but.. if a person does want to use one, carefully
inspect all of the tubing and compressor mounts- try shaking the whole
thing.
If you find any refrigerant tubing that can vibrate or rub
against something, either wire tie it, or put some sort of insulation
on it to dampen the vibrations.
Another point of concern is the compressor- usually for sound
suppression, the compressor will have very pliable mounts- you may
need to limit the movement of the compressor to avoid failure of the
tubing leading to and from the compressor.
Also- look for a model with the condenser tubing/fins on the
back, and not the bottom of the unit. Both G.E. and Sanyo make
correctly sized units (50 some inches high, and 23 inches wide).
Again- I'm all for standard units for permanent set up's, but
against them for travel- but, YMMV...
--
Chris Bryant
Bryant RV Services
Neon John
Chris Bryant wrote:
> For travel rigs, I'm generally against standard household
> refrigerators, but.. if a person does want to use one, carefully
> inspect all of the tubing and compressor mounts- try shaking the whole
> thing.
> If you find any refrigerant tubing that can vibrate or rub
> against something, either wire tie it, or put some sort of insulation
> on it to dampen the vibrations.
> Another point of concern is the compressor- usually for sound
> suppression, the compressor will have very pliable mounts- you may
> need to limit the movement of the compressor to avoid failure of the
> tubing leading to and from the compressor.
>
> Also- look for a model with the condenser tubing/fins on the
> back, and not the bottom of the unit. Both G.E. and Sanyo make
> correctly sized units (50 some inches high, and 23 inches wide).
>
> Again- I'm all for standard units for permanent set up's, but
> against them for travel- but, YMMV...
Excellent advice. I'll add one more thing to be aware of. Many
(most?) compressors are internally spring mounted in addition to the
external mounts. In most instances, the high pressure line (the low
pressure side is usually the case) makes a couple of coils for
vibration isolation before attaching to the compressor housing
exhaust port. This coil of tubing, nor the internal mounts are
really designed for much external vibration. If the tube cracks or
the spring mounts fail, it's new compressor time. Interstate travel
in most places will probably be OK but I'd not want to rely on a
domestic 'fridge if I planned to spend much time in the mountains or
on the intestates up north where the potholes are as large as
bulldozers.
I think I lost a freezer to just this in one of my catering trucks.
Compressor ran, made some compression but would not circulate
refrigerant. Not sure because I ultimately drove the truck to the
dump and pushed the freezer out the back :-)
If you jar the 'fridge fairly firmly and hear something clang inside
the compressor housing, then the compressor is a candidate for this
type of failure.