Overnight Parking at Walmart in Wareham MA
R...@pipeline.com
Please offer views on a message we are preparing to send to businesses
in the area. Also please consider if planning to go into the area.
NOTICE TO
CAPE COD, MA. BUSINESSES
SUBJECT :
Harassment of Recreational Vehicle owners and Fisherman concerning
overnight parking at Recreational Areas and Private parking lots,
RV owners in the New England Region and other parts of the east coast
have joined forces to encourage the boycott of all businesses in the
Upper and Mid Cape Cod area particularly the towns of Wareham and
Bourne. This is the result of continual harassment and fines suffered by
us as the result of overnight parking in recreational areas and private
parking lots.
RV owners travel on a regular basis year round. Most of us own RVç—´
costing tens of thousands of dollars. We are retireeç—´, couples, and
familyç—´ who enjoy traveling and the freedom to go where we want when we
want. We are law abiding citizens who value and respect the rights of
others. In our travels we dine, buy groceries, gasoline(in large
quantities), clothing, antiques, souvenirs, parts, hardware items etc.
We also have our vehicles serviced, wash our laundry, visit amusements
facilities and historical sites. Contrary to popular belief when you
travel in your house you tend to spend more money that the average
tourist. Sometimes we even pay for Hotel rooms. We also stay at
campgrounds on a regular basis. Many campgrounds offer facilities and
activities that make staying there enjoyable and fun. There are times
however when we are staying for a short time, or the local campgrounds
are full (or require minimum stays), or we decide that we would like to
enjoy the beauty of a state or city (taxpayer funded) area.
Our concern is that while we contribute to the economyç—´ of these
communities and promote their tourist trade to fellow travelers it would
seem that we are not welcome in some.
Let me share some examples:
ï½· Over the recent labor day weekend when the few campgrounds in the area
were full to capacity some of us (others who were fortunate enough
stayed in campgrounds) opted to spend the night in the Walmart Parking
lot on Rt. 6 in Wareham. We learned from the store manager that the town
had an ordinance prohibiting this. Walmart has a nationwide policy of
allowing and encouraging RVerç—´ to spend the night in their large vacant
lots therefore the manager was embarrassed and apologetic. Keep in mind
that Walmart is private property which pays property taxes to the town.
In this example since the campgrounds were not available some of these
RVerç—´ were forced to park wherever else they could or continue to drive
in a very fatigued condition. Some of these other locations were not
very safe from a traffic safety or potential criminal activity point of
view.
ï½· In other instanceç—´ RVerç—´ were being singled out and issued tickets
for overnight parking in empty parking lots in recreation areaç—´.
ï½· In the Town of Bourne a fisherman staying overnight in his camper in a
recreation area was ticketed as was the vehicle he was towing.
The list of examples is extensive. The bottom line is, if the officials
in these communities do not want people with motorhomes staying in their
area and spending money then we will oblige them.
While we are not sure what the reason is we do have our suspicions. In
at least one case the suspicions were confirmed by a conversation with
the staff of a local campground. We have learned that in other areas of
the country where this has been tried and was later changed it was at
the request of the local campground owners as a way of protecting
themselves from a perceived loss of business. As mentioned above we do
regularly stay in campgrounds when we desire the accommodations they
offer. If however this is the case in the Upper Cape Cod area then we
will also ensure that the boycott is extended to them.
This message is being sent to all businesses in the Cape Cod area, RV
publications, associations, clubs and posted on the various Web pages
and newsgroups of the internet. In other words we will forewarn any RVer
ç—´ contemplating traveling into the area.
We are confident that once this situation becomes known campers and RV
owners in New England and those planning visits to the area from other
regions of the country will assist the officials of these communities in
their apparent desire to not promote tourism. If you disagree with this
boycott call your local Chamber of Commerce or local town officials and
urge them to remedy this situation. We will monitor the situation and if
corrected we will end the boycott employing the same methods used to
promote it.
Vince Wirth
R...@pipeline.com wrote:
>Please offer views on a message we are preparing to send to businesses
>in the area. Also please consider if planning to go into the area.
>NOTICE TO
>CAPE COD, MA. BUSINESSES
>SUBJECT :
>Harassment of Recreational Vehicle owners and Fisherman concerning
>overnight parking at Recreational Areas and Private parking lots,
>RV owners in the New England Region and other parts of the east coast
>have joined forces to encourage the boycott of all businesses in the
>Upper and Mid Cape Cod area particularly the towns of Wareham and
>Bourne. This is the result of continual harassment and fines suffered by
>us as the result of overnight parking in recreational areas and PRIVATE
>parking lots.
>RV owners travel on a regular basis year round. Most of us own RVç—´
>costing tens of thousands of dollars. We are retireeç—´, couples, and
>familyç—´ who enjoy traveling and the freedom to go where we want when we
>want. We are law abiding citizens who value and respect the rights of
>others.
It's very hard to believe that last statement. If you were law abiding
then you would obey the law. If the local Walmart manager don't want
you to park on his lot, then you don"t. There is no law that says that
it is OK to park on their lots. No matter what the reason for the no
parking law, it's a law that you don't break. The locals have a reason
for it. --- Might not like campfires on the pavement -- . So I expect
that you will have a hard time getting other people in your cause.
But, don't stop trying, This is a free country and you have that
right. Good luck.
Vince Wirth
http://home.earthlink.net/‾vincewirth
Gary - KJ6Q
R...@pipeline.com wrote:
>
>Please offer views on a message we are preparing to send to businesses
>in the area. Also please consider if planning to go into the area.
>
>NOTICE TO
>CAPE COD, MA. BUSINESSES
>SUBJECT :
>Harassment of Recreational Vehicle owners and Fisherman concerning
>overnight parking at Recreational Areas and Private parking lots,
>RV owners in the New England Region and other parts of the east coast
>have joined forces to encourage the boycott of all businesses in the
>Upper and Mid Cape Cod area particularly the towns of Wareham and
>Bourne. This is the result of continual harassment and fines suffered by
>parking lots.
What RV you own, and how much you paid for it in NO way obligates
merchants ANYWHERE to provide you with FREE overnight parking on their
lots. Your presence creates liability hazzards and other problems that
FAR outweigh any benefits. If you are attempting to "con" those merchants
into believing your ocassional visits provide any significant revenue,
compared to the non-campers using their parking lots, you are wasting
EVERYBODY'S time! Whining trouble-making RVers like the above give ALL of
us a bad image that we really don't need! If you can afford your big,
grand MH, you can ALSO afford to pay for a PROPER place to park it
without infringing on the rights of legitimate businesses!
--
Gary..KJ6Q... Horn broken - watch for finger...
====================================================
It *IS* as bad as you think, they ARE out to get you!
====================================================
vs...@dowco.com
vince...@earthlink.net (Vince Wirth) wrote:
>>We are law abiding citizens who value and respect the rights of
>>others.
>It's very hard to believe that last statement. If you were law abiding
>then you would obey the law. If the local Walmart manager don't want
>you to park on his lot, then you don"t.
It seems to me, the Walmart manager didn't mind, but the local ordinance
wouldn't allow him to let RVers park overnight.
>No matter what the reason for the no
>parking law, it's a law that you don't break. The locals have a reason
>for it. --- Might not like campfires on the pavement -- .
In that case, have a campfire ordinance. There are a lot of poorly
thought out ordinances on the books. Maybe there is a good reason for
this one -- I can't say. But if it's arbitrary or improperly motivated,
why not lobby the local government and chamber of commerce to have it
looked at or changed?
..Vello
Claude Marcil
I agree, 100 %.
It burns me to see people owning expensive rigs trying to save a few
bucks by parking anywhere.
When I plan for a trip, I budget for camping fees as well as everything
else involved in a trip. And if the budget is too much for my wallet, I
either shorten or cancel my trip.
Unfortunatly, such is life, nothing is free these days
--
Claude Marcil
Boisbriand, , Autour du globe sur le NET
Quebec, Canada, Around the globe on the NET
Robert Hartong
Amen...the bigger the rig, the cheaper the individual!!!!!!
Claude Marcil <cad...@cam.org> wrote in article <341419...@cam.org>...
Steve Wolf, W8IZ
Gary - KJ6Q <te...@thereporter.com> wrote in article
<5v0ulq$c...@snews1.zippo.com>...
> R...@pipeline.com wrote:
> >Please offer views on a message we are preparing to send to businesses
> >in the area. Also please consider if planning to go into the area.
> >
> >NOTICE TO
> >CAPE COD, MA. BUSINESSES
> What RV you own, and how much you paid for it in NO way obligates
> merchants ANYWHERE to provide you with FREE overnight parking on their
> lots. Your presence creates liability hazzards and other problems that
> FAR outweigh any benefits. If you are attempting to "con" those merchants
> into believing your ocassional visits provide any significant revenue,
> compared to the non-campers using their parking lots, you are wasting
> EVERYBODY'S time! Whining trouble-making RVers like the above give ALL of
> us a bad image that we really don't need! If you can afford your big,
> grand MH, you can ALSO afford to pay for a PROPER place to park it
> without infringing on the rights of legitimate businesses!
Give the fellow a break. If you don't agree with him, go
and populate the place. If you don't, then stay away.
Instead of sitting on his butt crabbing, he is attempting to
change things.
If I disagree with a dopey, stupid law, I would get the law
changed. That's how this works. It's called democracy.
Good for the fellow with the letter, a big pat on the back.
Steve
George Lowry
Hi Gary,
I think you misread the original post. The complaint was not with the
merchant but with the local officials who have passed an ordinance
prohibiting the merchants from allowing them others to use their property. If
you re- read the original post, the manager of Walmart was apologetic for the
situation but it was beyond his control.
A similar situation exists here in California, Whittier to be specific. The
city has an ordinance that prohibits any vehicle of 10,000 lbs or more from
being parked on the city streets between 2 am and 6 am. The Whittier Elks
had to stop allowing visiting Elks the privilege of parking on their lot even
though they had facilities. This ordinance was brought about by the local
campground owners. Unfortunately it also affects the people who live there
and own RVs. The police make regular sweeps and ticket all offenders.
I agree that we, the RVer, should not try to demand the owner of property,
whether business or personal, to provide free service to us. OTOH, I really
object to the government interfering with the owners use of the property as
he sees fit within certain restrictions. Ordinances such as these are
"special interest" ordinances for the benefit of a certain small group and
not for the interest of the people in general and, I believe are probably
unconstitutional. One method of getting the attention of "those in power" is
to "hit the pocketbooks" of those who control. I regularly avoid any place
that does not welcome my RV and money. There are plenty of places that do
and that is where I spend MY money.
Having lived on Cape Cod, and being aware that the locals only live for the
two month summer " tourist season", and knowing that during that season the
area is stuffed with tourists from the big cities of New York and Boston, the
few pennies that the boycotting RVers don't spend will not be missed.
Off soapbox, Nomex fire suit on.
George
Gary - KJ6Q wrote:
> R...@pipeline.com wrote:
> >
> >Please offer views on a message we are preparing to send to businesses
> >in the area. Also please consider if planning to go into the area.
> >
> >NOTICE TO
> >CAPE COD, MA. BUSINESSES
> >SUBJECT :
> >Harassment of Recreational Vehicle owners and Fisherman concerning
> >overnight parking at Recreational Areas and Private parking lots,
> >RV owners in the New England Region and other parts of the east coast
> >have joined forces to encourage the boycott of all businesses in the
> >Upper and Mid Cape Cod area particularly the towns of Wareham and
> >Bourne. This is the result of continual harassment and fines suffered by
> >us as the result of overnight parking in recreational areas and private
> >parking lots.
>
> What RV you own, and how much you paid for it in NO way obligates
> merchants ANYWHERE to provide you with FREE overnight parking on their
> lots. Your presence creates liability hazzards and other problems that
> FAR outweigh any benefits. If you are attempting to "con" those merchants
> into believing your ocassional visits provide any significant revenue,
> compared to the non-campers using their parking lots, you are wasting
> EVERYBODY'S time! Whining trouble-making RVers like the above give ALL of
> us a bad image that we really don't need! If you can afford your big,
> grand MH, you can ALSO afford to pay for a PROPER place to park it
> without infringing on the rights of legitimate businesses!
>
Gary - KJ6Q
vs...@dowco.com wrote:
>vince...@earthlink.net (Vince Wirth) wrote:
>>No matter what the reason for the no
>>parking law, it's a law that you don't break. The locals have a reason
>>for it. --- Might not like campfires on the pavement -- .
>
>In that case, have a campfire ordinance. There are a lot of poorly
>thought out ordinances on the books. Maybe there is a good reason for
>this one -- I can't say. But if it's arbitrary or improperly motivated,
>why not lobby the local government and chamber of commerce to have it
>looked at or changed?
>
>..Vello
>
merchant, and some folks show up late some afternoon and set up camp in
YOUR businesses parking lot - amd possibly even have a couple of their
RVing FRIENDS with them as well. You now have about 6-? of your PAYING
customers spaces lost, people you don't know setting up houskeeping for
however their "emergency" might last, nor do you have ANY idea what their
lifestyles are - for all you know they are charter members of the Hell's
Angels! If one of your new-found "guests" gets mugged on your property,
or steps out the door of their RV and gets clipped by another vehicle,
or. (insert any lawsuit generating claim of your choice here...) YOU will
be the one left discussing their misfortune with YOUR attourney! Have you
heard of campers in these settings who were so "grateful" at being
allowed to park in a lot overnite, that they quite graciously dumped
their holding tanks on the open lot before leaving the next day? I have,
and how would YOU appreciate the mess, the inconvenience to your PAYING
customers, and the paperwork the local health department would present
you with - as well as the BILL for cleaning up the mess? Believe me, I
could continue - but if you. as Mr. Merchant would REALLY welcome all
that potential headache - well maybe YOU should open a business along the
North Eastern coast - you already have a few potential overnite "guests"
for your parking lot...
Jennings Holland
Hi;
I live near a NASCAR track and the local RV parking is full up by the Monday before the
race on Sunday, by Thursday you have to go 20 or so miles away; so I have a pretty good
feel for the problem on Cape Cod. When the RV-parks fill up, the overflow areas are full
and (on Cape Cod) you have to drive a hundred miles to find a place a place to stop and
rest without the local police harassing you because of a local ordinance, its time to
complain about the problem. The only place we have to express our feelings is on a forum
like this so don't grip about the mail, just delete it if you don't want to read it.
Jen
Bob Clerc
Claude Marcil wrote:
> I agree, 100 %.
>
> It burns me to see people owning expensive rigs trying to save a few
> bucks by parking anywhere.
Claude, rarely do I see anything wrong in "trying to save a few bucks".
The habits that people develop in terms of money management may follow
them to their last days. There are many reports of apparent paupers who
died with $1,000,000--possibly because in early life they were looking
at their last nickle, but through hard work and wise investment, they
amassed a large net worth. Unfortunately, they were never able to let
go of fears and habits necessary in earlier days. By extension, some
folks who started out "just like us", worked hard and invested wisely
(or luckily) and are able to enjoy the material things that go with
financial success, but are not able to let go of some of the frugal
habits. Beyond that, there does not seem to me any inconsistency with
wanting "nice things" (and we all have our own system of what is
important to us) yet not wanting to throw $25.00-$30.00 simply to park
for a few hours sleep without even having the need to set foot outside
the RV to do anything, including hooking up. I may puzzle (if I even
thing about it at all) as to why a $500,000 luxuromobile would want to
endure the noise of a rest area, but it would not burn me.
On the other hand, if by "parking anywhere", you are talking about those
of whatever financial ability or driving whatever cost of RV chooses to
park in a church lot, because those nice people would never bother them,
or in a store lot, on a handy piece of vacant lang or where ever it
might be without permission, repeat, without permission, then you bet,
that burns me too. But these folks that have no respect for others come
from all over the socio-economic landscape.
> When I plan for a trip, I budget for camping fees as well as everything
> else involved in a trip. And if the budget is too much for my wallet, I
> either shorten or cancel my trip.
I would not shorten or cancel a trip based solely on the cost of enroute
overnighting costs. Perhaps we can't afford the time or the totality of
costs, etc., but the cost of a enroute overnights can be minimized by
taking advantage of free or very low cost stopovers at places that offer
the same for reasons that make sense to them. If a particular Wal-Mart
location chooses to offer overnights, then it is probably because they
feel that the opportunity to generate additional revenue (or good will)
is a positive over the very minimal costs to the store (unless the RVer
does something stupid or inconsiderate). For the Wal-Mart it is a
business decision; for the RVer it is a money management decision.
On the other hand, in the particular Wareham case, if the traveller was
using the Wal-Mart lot as a "campground", then I would view that as
unfortunate. But Wareham is not "technically" on the Cape--and they may
have fallen short of their destination. Perhaps that RVer ran out of
steam, didn't see a CG, and took refuge late at night rather than travel
on tired. Our only overnight at a Wal-Mart was under those
circumstances while travelling through the great spaces of West Texas.
Saw a CG two miles down the road the next morning--and we were both so
tired (foolishly) that we hadn't made the effort to look in a CG
directory.
And although our common bond is the RV, there are all sorts of reasons
why we are in them, including snow/sun birding, enjoying the beauty of
our countries and going from job to job, making every dollar go as far
as possible.
> Unfortunatly, such is life, nothing is free these days
> --
To get sort of mushy, yes there are many free things. There are folks
out there who offer use of a piece of their land alongside their houses
along with hookups, to complete strangers. Why? I do not know. Maybe
they are so happy with life that they want to share what life has given
them. Maybe they are lonely. Maybe they want to hear about the great
adventures of their visitors. But there are many, many people who give
freely of themselves for many, many reasons. Yes, in the case of a
Wal-Mart, they may well be looking for additional business, but that is
your choice whether or not to give.
> Claude Marcil
> Boisbriand, , Autour du globe sur le NET
> Quebec, Canada, Around the globe on the NET
Bob Clerc kerp...@flash.net in the mountains of central NM
Gary - KJ6Q
"Steve Wolf, W8IZ" <w8...@apk.net> wrote:
>
>Gary - KJ6Q <te...@thereporter.com> wrote in article
><5v0ulq$c...@snews1.zippo.com>...
>
>> >Please offer views on a message we are preparing to send to businesses
>> >in the area. Also please consider if planning to go into the area.
>> >
>> >NOTICE TO
>> >CAPE COD, MA. BUSINESSES
>
>> merchants ANYWHERE to provide you with FREE overnight parking on their
>> lots. Your presence creates liability hazzards and other problems that
>> FAR outweigh any benefits. If you are attempting to "con" those merchants
>
>> into believing your ocassional visits provide any significant revenue,
>> compared to the non-campers using their parking lots, you are wasting
>> EVERYBODY'S time! Whining trouble-making RVers like the above give ALL of
>
>> us a bad image that we really don't need! If you can afford your big,
>> grand MH, you can ALSO afford to pay for a PROPER place to park it
>> without infringing on the rights of legitimate businesses!
>
>and populate the place. If you don't, then stay away.
>Instead of sitting on his butt crabbing, he is attempting to
>change things.
>
>If I disagree with a dopey, stupid law, I would get the law
>changed. That's how this works. It's called democracy.
>
>Good for the fellow with the letter, a big pat on the back.
>
>Steve
>
WELL, Steve, remember, these folks are NOT residents of those towns -
merely short term visitors - so let's say your support WAS possible. AND
let's ALSO "pretend" that YOU live in an area that drew seasonal crowds
of RVers who disagreed with municipal regulations that denied them the
right to park their rigs overnite on the residential street of their
choice - after all, why would a city street be any more "sacred" than a
business-owned parking lot? SO, our out-of-town guests petition the city,
scream, yell, and hold their breaths til they turn blue - and the
city changes the regulation about street parking. NOW, as you and your
family sit down to supper one Friday evening, you are greeted by the
sight of several RVs pulling up in front of your place, and your
neighbors, and setting up camp. I mean, after ALL, these poor folks have
no place to go, they've paid all those big bucks for their rigs and
driven SOOOOO far to get here... Now, even though their lack of a
place to stay is the direct result of their OWN improper trip
preparation, don't you now really *OWE* it to them to allow them to use
YOUR street area for the weekend... Even if their primary source of
entertainment happens to be extremely loud Rap music - wayyyy into the
small hours of the morning? I mean, wouldn't you be ENTIRELY agreeable
and supportive that YOUR city council sided with a bunch of transients,
over the wishes of their OWN residents? After all, why should RVers be
forced to hunt other, more appropriate parking spots when there is a
perfectly satisfactory one right in fron of YOUR house? What kind of
"dopey" law would prevent them, and in a "democracy", why should the
residents of a town have any more say over municipal regulations than
non-residents? You would agree, wouldn't you?
Yeah, su-u-u-ure you would...
John Sankey
A lot of people have RVs that don't cost tens of thousands.
We got them because, being on a pension, we don't have money
for hotel bills & airline fares & taxis & restaurants...
We DO appreciate the efforts of firms that appreciate our business,
such as Wal-Mart does.
I think you should announce that your boycott explicitly
excludes Wal-Mart (and any other firm that would welcome our
business if it weren't for a restrictive bylaw).
And, I would present a sign to the Wal-Mart in the boycott town,
saying something like:
RV Parking at Wal-Mart
We regret that the town of ____ prevents this Wal-Mart from
offering RV owners overnight parking that we offer nation
wide. We assure you that we still value your business, and are
attempting to reverse this restriction. In the meantime,
we invite you to stay at the Wal-Mart stores at ___ and ___.
Provided with the thanks of the <name of your RV organization>
Finally, I'd cut the stuff about "paying taxes" - everybody
does - I'd cite the exact bylaw in the offending towns rather
than your detailed account of a single incident, I'd make it
one side of one sheet of paper, and address it to the mayor
and council of each town, and send copies to any firm in the
towns that would directly benefit from RV patronage.
Gary - KJ6Q
>like this so don't grip about the mail, just delete it if you don't want to read it.
>
>Jen
I'm not "griping about the mail", but AGAINST the idea that YOUR RV
accomodations and desire to park your rig on property where you are
neither wanted OR permitted by law should be recognized by those who are
in NO way obligated or interested in doing so. MANY people want to see
major attractions of ALL sorts all across this country - major boxing
matches, ball games etc. But their DESIRE to go and see these events in
NO way obligates disinterested third parties to accomodate them. Can't
find a place to park your RV because you didn't think to make/check
reservations first? *TOUGH*, YOUR misfortune of failure to plan ahead
doesn't give you a license to kill - OR to waltz into the nearest parking
lot expecting the management to roll out the red carpet for you. AND, if
YOU don't like the criticism you are receiving HERE for your boorish
attitude, YOU may take your complaints elsewhere!
Gary - KJ6Q
hham...@aol.com (HHamp5246) wrote:
>
>>OK, Vello, let's turn this situation around. YOU are the 'Nasty 'ol
>>merchant, and some folks show up late some afternoon and set up camp in
>>YOUR businesses parking lot -
>
>
>I have to agree....parking lots are not really suitable places to campout.
> I think you may want to plan ahead. And what was that with all the funny
>symbols....I suffered reading that letter.
>Hunter
HUH? WHAT funny symbols? I musta missed somethin'.
Bruce Strannemar
R...@pipeline.com wrote:
>
> Please offer views on a message we are preparing to send to businesses
> in the area. Also please consider if planning to go into the area.
>
> NOTICE TO
> CAPE COD, MA. BUSINESSES
> SUBJECT :
> Harassment of Recreational Vehicle owners and Fisherman concerning
> overnight parking at Recreational Areas and Private parking lots,
> RV owners in the New England Region and other parts of the east coast
> have joined forces to encourage the boycott of all businesses in the
> Upper and Mid Cape Cod area particularly the towns of Wareham and
> Bourne. This is the result of continual harassment and fines suffered by
> us as the result of overnight parking in recreational areas and private
> parking lots.
>
> RV owners travel on a regular basis year round. Most of us own RVç—´
> costing tens of thousands of dollars. We are retireeç—´, couples, and
> familyç—´ who enjoy traveling and the freedom to go where we want when we
> want. We are law abiding citizens who value and respect the rights of
> others.
It doesn't sound like you respect those who say "NO", or is it you only
respect those who agree with you. Plan ahead and make reservation and
pay
the small amount (small compared to your fuel bill).
--
Bruce Strannemar
To send EMAIL remove <NOSPAM>
EdJ
The word to remember here is 'RESERVATIONS'. If a person is
going to a known busy area without reservations at a
campground, why should they get special treatment? If I
could not get a reservation, I simplily would not go until
I could get them.
Jennings Holland wrote:
>
> Hi;
>
> I live near a NASCAR track and the local RV parking is full up by the Monday before the
> race on Sunday, by Thursday you have to go 20 or so miles away; so I have a pretty good
> feel for the problem on Cape Cod. When the RV-parks fill up, the overflow areas are full
> and (on Cape Cod) you have to drive a hundred miles to find a place a place to stop and
> rest without the local police harassing you because of a local ordinance, its time to
> complain about the problem. The only place we have to express our feelings is on a forum
> like this so don't grip about the mail, just delete it if you don't want to read it.
>
> Jen
--
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ed J e...@ibm.net
On my retirement adventure from the rolling hills of
the Southern Tier in New York State.....
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Mark Hillier
As a newbie RV'er, I am wondering what other peoples' experience has
been with overnighting? ie in parking lots, rest areas and just off
the road. I understand for extended stays a campground is superior, but
what if none are near, or if you're out in the winter and there are no
campgrounds open. I would like to take my RV to a ski area.
Mark
HHamp5246
Michael P. Novotny
Hi Mark,
I'm sure you got some other responses -- haven't read them all yet, but I
thought I'd add to the skiiing thing. I go skiing up at Lake Tahoe (North
Shore area) and around Sonora. Every place I've been has actually
encouraged RVs. I generally come the night before and stay in the lot.
Most places actually encouraged me to stay by the front door--I was told
they wanted people who were that enthusiastic AND I deserved to be that
close. Some places actually have RV parking for you to stay in. (Only
disadvantage is the snow plows -- they generally groom the slopes at night
AND the clean the parking lot. They're pretty noisy AND have will go as
close to you as necessary to clear snow.) Personally I like coming out
after a day of skiing and having a little hot chocolate, place to relax,
etc.).
Personally, I also stay in a parking lot or street once in awhile--only
going to be a few hours OR no campgrounds nearby that aren't full. I've got
to admit, I generally park as far out of the mainstream as possible AND, if
there is another motorhome I leave. Only once was I asked to leave--I
simply told the officer I was too tired to drive on AND asked him for his
name in case I did have an accident down the road. He agreed to let me stay
for 4 hours.
I also understand, although don't always agree, with rules keeping people
out--but it is their property and their town so... Like the first person who
wrote in, I would also probably never return. Whether Gary likes it or
not--that is my option -- besides, living like that I may be lucky enough
never to have the misforturne to meet him.
Mike N.
Dick Campagna
I am honestly unbiased and I treat everyone equally without regard to race,
creed, color, sexual preference, etc., etc., unless they personally offend
me. But, in my personal experience, I have observed two age groups who
feel that the world GENERALLY owes them everyting: teenagers and *old*
people (i.e., any age older than me <G>). Mr Wirth, I'd bet that you're in
one of those groups. Please let me know what Wal-Mart you're going to send
your letter to so I can send them one with an opposing viewpoint. You are
well within your rights to express yourself to them, but don't include the
rest of us. I appreciate it when someone does me a favor; however, I don't
expect or demand it. Neither should you.
--
Per Favore, Non Mi Rompere i Coglioni.
Grazie!
Vince Wirth <vince...@earthlink.net> wrote in article
<5v10iv$8...@chile.earthlink.net>...
> R...@pipeline.com wrote:
>
> >Please offer views on a message we are preparing to send to businesses
> >in the area. Also please consider if planning to go into the area.
>
> >NOTICE TO
> >CAPE COD, MA. BUSINESSES
> >SUBJECT :
> >Harassment of Recreational Vehicle owners and Fisherman concerning
> >overnight parking at Recreational Areas and Private parking lots,
> >RV owners in the New England Region and other parts of the east coast
> >have joined forces to encourage the boycott of all businesses in the
> >Upper and Mid Cape Cod area particularly the towns of Wareham and
> >Bourne. This is the result of continual harassment and fines suffered by
> >us as the result of overnight parking in recreational areas and PRIVATE
> >parking lots.
>
> >RV owners travel on a regular basis year round. Most of us own
RVç—´
> >costing tens of thousands of dollars. We are retireeç—´, couples,
and
> >familyç—´ who enjoy traveling and the freedom to go where we want
when we
> >want. We are law abiding citizens who value and respect the rights of
> >others.
> It's very hard to believe that last statement. If you were law abiding
> then you would obey the law. If the local Walmart manager don't want
> you to park on his lot, then you don"t. There is no law that says that
> it is OK to park on their lots. No matter what the reason for the no
> parking law, it's a law that you don't break. The locals have a reason
fran...@pipeline.com
Gary - KJ6Q wrote:
>
> R...@pipeline.com wrote:
> >
> >Please offer views on a message we are preparing to send to businesses
> >in the area. Also please consider if planning to go into the area.
> >
> >NOTICE TO
> >CAPE COD, MA. BUSINESSES
> >SUBJECT :
> >Harassment of Recreational Vehicle owners and Fisherman concerning
> >overnight parking at Recreational Areas and Private parking lots,
> >RV owners in the New England Region and other parts of the east coast
> >have joined forces to encourage the boycott of all businesses in the
> >Upper and Mid Cape Cod area particularly the towns of Wareham and
> >Bourne. This is the result of continual harassment and fines suffered by
> >parking lots.
>
> What RV you own, and how much you paid for it in NO way obligates
> merchants ANYWHERE to provide you with FREE overnight parking on their
> lots. Your presence creates liability hazzards and other problems that
> FAR outweigh any benefits. If you are attempting to "con" those merchants
> into believing your ocassional visits provide any significant revenue,
> compared to the non-campers using their parking lots, you are wasting
> EVERYBODY'S time! Whining trouble-making RVers like the above give ALL of
> us a bad image that we really don't need! If you can afford your big,
> grand MH, you can ALSO afford to pay for a PROPER place to park it
> without infringing on the rights of legitimate businesses!
>
> Gary..KJ6Q... Horn broken - watch for finger...
> ====================================================
> It *IS* as bad as you think, they ARE out to get you!
> ====================================================
I am not Whining and yes I can afford my "grand MH" the point is that if
Walmart or any other business allows me to park in their lots then that
is their business not some local yokle to bit politicians who's only
interest seems to be protecting the revenue stream of the local CG's.
Did you know that most CG's in that area require min stays. I spoke with
the owners at one of the local CG's and was told that if someone passing
through wanted to use their dump facilities they charged them $25.00 (1
nites stay) as a punishment for not staying their in the first place.
Last time I checked this was a free country and I think it's pretty sad
when a business already burdened with excess taxes and regulations is
ieven told who they can allow on their property and for how long. Wake
up before it's too late.
fran...@pipeline.com
Bruce Strannemar wrote:
>
> R...@pipeline.com wrote:
> >
> > Please offer views on a message we are preparing to send to businesses
> > in the area. Also please consider if planning to go into the area.
> >
> > NOTICE TO
> > CAPE COD, MA. BUSINESSES
> > SUBJECT :
> > Harassment of Recreational Vehicle owners and Fisherman concerning
> > overnight parking at Recreational Areas and Private parking lots,
> > RV owners in the New England Region and other parts of the east coast
> > have joined forces to encourage the boycott of all businesses in the
> > Upper and Mid Cape Cod area particularly the towns of Wareham and
> > Bourne. This is the result of continual harassment and fines suffered by
> > us as the result of overnight parking in recreational areas and private
> > parking lots.
> >
> > costing tens of thousands of dollars. We are retireeç—´, couples, and
> > familyç—´ who enjoy traveling and the freedom to go where we want when we
> > want. We are law abiding citizens who value and respect the rights of
> > others.
>
> respect those who agree with you. Plan ahead and make reservation and
> pay
> the small amount (small compared to your fuel bill).
>
>
> --
> Bruce Strannemar
> To send EMAIL remove <NOSPAM>
Are you that much of a sheeple that you accept No w/o question. Keep in
mind that the Walmart has no problem w/RV's in fact the manager told me
that in the seven years he has managed the store he has NEVER had a
problem w/RV's. Can't you see that this petty law is to protect the CG's
in the area. Just you see the big picture the exact same situation
exists in Cape May N.J.. I recently had my MH repaired while on a trip
there and the owner of the service facility stated his disgust while
informing me that he was not allowed to park RV's on the street next to
his property ( a dead end) for even an hour until the customer came to
pick it up.
M & V
My opinion on this matter is as follows:
People in New England are living there for a few reasons, one of those
reasons was to escape the Wal-Marts of the world, and to maintain as
pristeen as possible an historically accurate town, city or
municipality. These people feel very strongly about this, as is proven
by the historic societies which disallow you to paint your house any
color you want. These people pay premium dollars for their property,
taxes, fees etc...and if you ask me, they have every right to out vote
any RV from just plopping in any parking lot they so desire. They did
not want Wal-Mart there in the first place. For goodness sake,
campground hosts cannot even contain people IN the camp, let alone have
a slew of (many [are] unsightly) rigs slabbed in the local parking
lots. I also imagine, based on some of the discussions here that,
there would be people who would also feel it was okay to dump their
tanks into the street sewers if they could not find a suitable
campgound (which is overloaded to the max) to dump. Bet the farm that,
if you came to a town where I lived, and if I lived there paying high
dollars for that privilege, and you parked your rig in a local, higly
visible Wal-Mart lot, I would get out and scream bloody murder. There
are laws and rules, and if people cannot follow them, do not go to
their towns. They do not need your business; I can assure you. And
make sure you never go to Fire Island by ferry. In most towns on that
barrier island you cannot even eat an ice cream cone in public. Yes,
that is a law punishable by a fine. Get the point? Sorry if you don't.
Victoria
john....@pobox.tbe.com
In article <5v1eon$l...@snews1.zippo.com>,
Gary - KJ6Q <te...@thereporter.com> wrote:
>
> "Steve Wolf, W8IZ" <w8...@apk.net> wrote:
> >
> >Gary - KJ6Q <te...@thereporter.com> wrote in article
> ><5v0ulq$c...@snews1.zippo.com>...
> >
> >> >Please offer views on a message we are preparing to send to businesses
> >> >in the area. Also please consider if planning to go into the area.
> >> >
> >> >NOTICE TO
> >> >CAPE COD, MA. BUSINESSES
> >
> >> merchants ANYWHERE to provide you with FREE overnight parking on their
> >> lots. Your presence creates liability hazzards and other problems that
> >> FAR outweigh any benefits. If you are attempting to "con" those merchants
> >
> >> into believing your ocassional visits provide any significant revenue,
> >> compared to the non-campers using their parking lots, you are wasting
> >> EVERYBODY'S time! Whining trouble-making RVers like the above give ALL of
> >
> >> us a bad image that we really don't need! If you can afford your big,
> >> grand MH, you can ALSO afford to pay for a PROPER place to park it
> >> without infringing on the rights of legitimate businesses!
> >
> Gary..KJ6Q... Horn broken - watch for finger...
> ====================================================
> It *IS* as bad as you think, they ARE out to get you!
> ====================================================
Gary, Gary, Gary there you go again. The local government has every
right, in fact they are obligated, to control streets, which are public
property. No one is arguing that (even if they don't agree with the
regulations). The point of this discussion is the government's right
to control PRIVATE property. If the local Wal Mart or other fine
business does not want their parking lots used for RV parking all they
have to do is place a conspicous sign and most people would adhere.
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
john....@pobox.tbe.com
In article <5v0ulq$c...@snews1.zippo.com>,
Gary - KJ6Q <te...@thereporter.com> wrote:
>
> R...@pipeline.com wrote:
> >
> >Please offer views on a message we are preparing to send to businesses
> >in the area. Also please consider if planning to go into the area.
> >
> >NOTICE TO
> >CAPE COD, MA. BUSINESSES
> >Harassment of Recreational Vehicle owners and Fisherman concerning
> >overnight parking at Recreational Areas and Private parking lots,
> >RV owners in the New England Region and other parts of the east coast
> >have joined forces to encourage the boycott of all businesses in the
> >Upper and Mid Cape Cod area particularly the towns of Wareham and
> >Bourne. This is the result of continual harassment and fines suffered by
> >us as the result of overnight parking in recreational areas and private
> >parking lots.
>
> merchants ANYWHERE to provide you with FREE overnight parking on their
> lots. Your presence creates liability hazzards and other problems that
> FAR outweigh any benefits. If you are attempting to "con" those merchants
> into believing your ocassional visits provide any significant revenue,
> compared to the non-campers using their parking lots, you are wasting
> EVERYBODY'S time! Whining trouble-making RVers like the above give ALL of
> us a bad image that we really don't need! If you can afford your big,
> grand MH, you can ALSO afford to pay for a PROPER place to park it
> without infringing on the rights of legitimate businesses!
>
> Gary..KJ6Q... Horn broken - watch for finger...
> ====================================================
> It *IS* as bad as you think, they ARE out to get you!
> ====================================================
I think you are missing the point somewhat. Every business has the
right to say NO to RVers in his/her parking lot and I and most RVers
respect those rights and would not park there. In this case I think
it's the local government enacting a law (aka ordinance) to dictate to
a private business how he/she can use private property is the concern.
I'll bet if you ask the Wal Mart or other business in the shopping
center most would say it's ok. The perception seems to be that the
ordinance was adopted to "protect" the business interests of local
campgrounds; not for prevention of crime.
john....@pobox.tbe.com
In article <5v1v4l$q...@snews1.zippo.com>,
> >like this so don't grip about the mail, just delete it if you don't want to read it.
> >
> >Jen
>
> accomodations and desire to park your rig on property where you are
> neither wanted OR permitted by law should be recognized by those who are
> in NO way obligated or interested in doing so. MANY people want to see
> major attractions of ALL sorts all across this country - major boxing
> matches, ball games etc. But their DESIRE to go and see these events in
> NO way obligates disinterested third parties to accomodate them. Can't
> find a place to park your RV because you didn't think to make/check
> reservations first? *TOUGH*, YOUR misfortune of failure to plan ahead
> doesn't give you a license to kill - OR to waltz into the nearest parking
> lot expecting the management to roll out the red carpet for you. AND, if
> YOU don't like the criticism you are receiving HERE for your boorish
> attitude, YOU may take your complaints elsewhere!
>
> Gary..KJ6Q... Horn broken - watch for finger...
> ====================================================
> It *IS* as bad as you think, they ARE out to get you!
> ====================================================
Gary,
Have you ever met Will??
Bob Clerc
George Lowry wrote:
> I think you misread the original post. The complaint was not with the
> merchant but with the local officials who have passed an ordinance
> prohibiting the merchants from allowing them others to use their >property.
<lotsa snip for sake of bandwidth>
> Off soapbox, Nomex fire suit on.
>
> George
Golly Gee. First Pat Curry with an excellent item on RV clubs; now
George Lowry with a excellent, balanced analysis of the competing rights
of various entities. Was lamenting to someone the other day about we
seem to get into some pretty deep ruts on this NG and on the rv-l
newslist. Neither of your posts helps me to get 87 mpg with my MH--come
on folks, you gotta work harder on that--or put the bubble on my level
dead center, but shows that we have folks on our team with knowledge
and the ability to clearly comment on why we encounter puzzling
situations.
Steve Wolf, W8IZ
> WELL, Steve, remember, these folks are NOT residents of those towns -
No, they only support it with their tax base. He's not inferring
outsiders should run the town ... he's inferring that the lost
income might persuade the businesses to modify their regulations.
The residents are still running the city. They just loose the taxes
due to the boycott. If they don't care about that, then they
go about their business and not worry about it.
He's not moving Ma and Pa to the back 40. He just wants
to spend a few hours in a parking lot. If there is a noise disturbance,
address the noise disturbance with noise disturbance laws. Address
Ma and Pa living in the RV with a hook-up provision in their rec
ordinance. Address a violation of law "X" with law "X".
If the residents don't mind loosing taxes due to a boycott,
they should ignore it. If the residents don't mind having their
reputation screwed up, so be it. Isolationism isn't a crime. China
doesn't seem to mind it.
(I'm more than a few years from retirement, I have two kids and
I like to drive where I'm going. I don't have the time to take leisurely
stops. I have no idea how far I will get. I can't make reservations
in advance. Hence, I like to stop for a few hours here and there
and catch a few winks. I appreciate places like Wal-Mart allowing me
to do this. I will avoid places like Wareham, MA who are unfriendly
to RVers.)
Steve
Steve
Dick Campagna
I hereby apologize to Mr V Wirth for placing his name in my note, below, in
error. As I reread the thread, I realized that, to the contrary, Mr Wirth
and I agree on this matter, and I picked up the wrong name. Sorry, Mr
Wirth . . .
--
Per Favore, Non Mi Rompere i Coglioni.
Grazie!
Dick Campagna <camp...@nothinbut.net> wrote in article
<01bcbc6e$aa543100$0b20...@bigpapa.nothinbut.net>...
> I am honestly unbiased and I treat everyone equally without regard to
race,
> creed, color, sexual preference, etc., etc., unless they personally
offend
> me. But, in my personal experience, I have observed two age groups who
> feel that the world GENERALLY owes them everyting: teenagers and *old*
> people (i.e., any age older than me <G>). Mr Wirth, I'd bet that you're
in
> one of those groups. Please let me know what Wal-Mart you're going to
send
> your letter to so I can send them one with an opposing viewpoint. You
are
> well within your rights to express yourself to them, but don't include
the
> rest of us. I appreciate it when someone does me a favor; however, I
don't
> expect or demand it. Neither should you.
> --
> Per Favore, Non Mi Rompere i Coglioni.
>
> Grazie!
>
> Vince Wirth <vince...@earthlink.net> wrote in article
> <5v10iv$8...@chile.earthlink.net>...
> > R...@pipeline.com wrote:
> >
> > >Please offer views on a message we are preparing to send to businesses
> > >in the area. Also please consider if planning to go into the area.
> >
> > >NOTICE TO
> > >CAPE COD, MA. BUSINESSES
> > >SUBJECT :
> > >Harassment of Recreational Vehicle owners and Fisherman concerning
> > >overnight parking at Recreational Areas and Private parking lots,
> > >RV owners in the New England Region and other parts of the east coast
> > >have joined forces to encourage the boycott of all businesses in the
> > >Upper and Mid Cape Cod area particularly the towns of Wareham and
> > >Bourne. This is the result of continual harassment and fines suffered
by
> > >us as the result of overnight parking in recreational areas and
PRIVATE
> > >parking lots.
> >
> > >RV owners travel on a regular basis year round. Most of us own
> RVç—´
> > >costing tens of thousands of dollars. We are retireeç—´, couples,
> and
> > >familyç—´ who enjoy traveling and the freedom to go where we want
> when we
> > >want. We are law abiding citizens who value and respect the rights of
> > >others.
Bob Clerc
john....@pobox.tbe.com wrote:
>
> Gary, Gary, Gary there you go again. The local government has every
> right, in fact they are obligated, to control streets, which are public
> property. No one is arguing that (even if they don't agree with the
> regulations). The point of this discussion is the government's right
> to control PRIVATE property. If the local Wal Mart or other fine
> business does not want their parking lots used for RV parking all they
> have to do is place a conspicous sign and most people would adhere.
>
In an ideal world a sign, prohibiting overnight parking on private
property, would not be necessary. Any time an RVer parks on private
property for the purpose other than what it is intended--shopping at a
retail store parking lot, attending services at a church, etc.--then
specific authorization from a responsible representative of that
establishment would be obtained.
But we don't live in an ideal world, or at least I haven't been so far.
So a sign prohibiting overnight parking is probably a necessity. This
is particularly true for places like Wally World and others which have a
rep for permitting overnighting. In fact, many such places already have
trespass notices posted around the lots, but tolerate RV overnighting as
an exception.
BTW, finding out policy about parking on public streets overnight can be
a real fun thing. Visited friends in Napa, CA who insisted we stay at
the house. Took a half hour on the telephone with the local PD to get a
warm fuzzy that it was probably all right, but never did get a
declarative statement that it was not prohibited.
HHamp5246
> The point of this discussion is the government's right
>to control PRIVATE property. If the local Wal Mart or other fine
>business does not want their parking lots used for RV parking all they
>have to do is place a conspicous sign and most people would adhere
No...I think Gary is absolutely right. And...government does have a right
to control private property. We have sign ordinances which state signs can
only be so large....even signs on private property. When I lived on Long
Island Sound we had fence ordinances so we couldn't block our neighbor's
view of the water.
Hunter
HHamp5246
>I'm sure you got some other responses -- haven't read them all yet, but I
>thought I'd add to the skiiing thing. I go skiing up at Lake Tahoe
(North Shore area) and around Sonora.
This has me wondering....what keeps the water,,clean, grey and black from
feezing up on the MH?
Hunter
HHamp5246
>. These people pay premium dollars for their property,
>taxes, fees etc...and if you ask me, they have every right to out vote
>any RV from just plopping in any parking lot they so desire. They did
>not want Wal-Mart there in the first place. For goodness sake,
>campground hosts cannot even contain people IN the camp, let alone have
>a slew of (many [are] unsightly) rigs slabbed in the local parking
>lots. I also imagine, based on some of the discussions here that,
>there would be people who would also feel it was okay to dump their
>tanks into the street sewers if they could not find a suitable
>campgound (which is overloaded to the max) to dump. Bet the farm that,
>if you came to a town where I lived, and if I lived there paying high
>dollars for that privilege, and you parked your rig in a local, higly
>visible Wal-Mart lot, I would get out and scream bloody murder. There
>are laws and rules, and if people cannot follow them, do not go to
>their towns.
I agree completely....I am astounded that anyone thinks it's okay to camp
at a shopping center. It would never occur to me to think that was an okay
thing to do. What if everyone wanted to stay in the business parking lot,
then Sunday morning Walmart opens and there are no parking spaces for their
customers. Isn't it okay to park overnight at highway rest stops?
Hunter
Gary - KJ6Q
john....@pobox.tbe.com wrote:
>Gary, Gary, Gary there you go again. The local government has every
>right, in fact they are obligated, to control streets, which are public
>property. No one is arguing that (even if they don't agree with the
>regulations). The point of this discussion is the government's right
>to control PRIVATE property.
AHHHhh, THAT makes SOOOO much easier, MY stuff isn't threatened, or MY
peace and serenity disturbed....
If the local Wal Mart or other fine
>business does not want their parking lots used for RV parking all they
>have to do is place a conspicous sign and most people would adhere.
"MOST" people ALREADY agree that parking lots of private businesses
aren't acceptable places to allow RV parking - it's the FEW who think
that THEIR poor planning and "special" circumstance exempt THEM from
exclusion, and obligate OTHERS who are totally uninvolved to accomodate
their self inflicted "needs"! And THESE are the very ones who would/will
NOT merely accept those posted signs - as they are NOW!
>
HEY, isn't that life! People can be SOOOOO compassionate about being
generous and sacrificial of OTHER peoples rights and freedoms - but just
move that problem to THEIR front door, and the squeals of protest begin
in high gear! The guy sitting in the comfort and pleasant seclusion of
his own front room sees NO problem opening the door to RVers on local
parking lots, after all, HE isn't directly affected - so whats the big
deal? But once that practice is allowed "officially", what is the
potential impact to the business and the community? Those in favor of
this practice would like to picture in their mind a nice. elderly couple
in a neat and clean RV, just looking for a spot at the back of the lot to
sleep for a few hours, and then be on their way. But made official, what
happens when the grungy 40 foot MH pulls up in FRONT of the store, towing
a much abused off road vehicle behind it, and begins unloading 3 snarling
Rottweilers, 6 screaming kids and playing their acid rock at full volume?
What happens when they unhitch the 4-wheeler, load up the family and tie
the dogs to the bumper of the MH, and take off for the day? NO PROBLEM
you say, YOU just won't shop while they are there, and after all, YOU'RE
still safe and comfortable in YOUR front room...
It's EASY to be "compassionate", as long as it's the OTHER GUYS ox being
gored!
Curtis Tack
[snip]
| Isn't it okay to park overnight at highway rest stops?
| Hunter
|
forbidding it.
-- Curt Tack, retired in eastern NC
~better a haz-bin than a never-wuz~
Steve Wolf, W8IZ
When the tanks are in the breeze (out in the open), nothing.
I winter camp and let them freeze up. When I needed to dump
I put plywood around the back and sides of the motorhome and
heated the makeshift box with a torpedo heater. After 8 to
12 hours I would dump into my test-T.
My new motorhome has the tanks in the basement. That should
be MUCH easier to heat.
Steve
John Sankey
Gary
You are entitled to express your personal opinions - that's what
Usenet is for. But, you've gone far beyond that. Flames
denigrate us all. Please give others with opinions and
feelings on this issue the respect that you wish for yourself.
John
Tom Lyman
stayed long. I stop there because the parking lots are so big and there
is always room for RV parking on the fringe. I have driven by people
staying and have never seen any messes.
DsrtTravlr
> The point of this discussion is the government's right
>to control PRIVATE property.
Private property must be guarded from public idiots. The stores pay
taxes, the taxes pay the police, the stores therefore have a security force
par excellance. The guy with the baton and gun make the rules. If you
don't like that, you can tell it all to the judge Monday, or go rent a
space at the RV HEAVEN just like everyone else.
It is a sign of the times.
Same story, just years apart.
September 9, 1955. Floyd Frick pulls his home on wheels into the local
Penney's public parking lot. Floyd has a few beers and turns in for the
evening. While he is sleeping, a rainstorm causes a flood in the parking
lot, and Mr. Frick is washed away. Alas, Mr. Frick and his vintage truck
are lost forever...............
Enter the Frick heirs. They think that they should be compensated for old
Floyd and his valuable vintage truck. Jury hears case.
Jury rules that Floyd was an idiot. Rules that Floyd should have had the
sense to go to local campgrounds. Rules that Floyd probably would have
survived had he not consumed the beer. Says family should be glad Floyd no
longer swimming in the gene pool. Case Closed. No money for the grief
stricken.
September 9, 1997........Same details............except up to verdict and
jury award. Floyd is portrayed as a great human being despite his beer
consumption. Loved his mother and took good care of his cat, Princess.
Parking lot should have been posted as flood prone. Lifesaving equipment
should have been available. Security should have not allowed Mr. Frick to
stay in lot, and place himself in danger.
The Frick heirs are quite rich, even after paying a third for hot shot lawyers.
SOUND FAMILIAR?
Is it any wonder that a weary traveler is told to clear out when asking
for a place of shelter for the evening? Even those who would grant
permission to stay have to now adhere to company policy because of those
who would sue and blame everyone else except themselves.
And for those who like to spend the night in a parking lot in an unknown
area of an unknown town, with little security to save a few
bucks..................helloooooooooooooo........is anyone home?????? If
the town has a Walmart, chances are that it is big enough to have a truck
stop. Drivers sleep in the parking lot all the time there. Something is
to be said about planning, too.
I wish everyone would quit pissing and moaning about being run out of
parking lots, and plan their trips better.
Or go put up a sign in their driveway, "Free Overnight RV Parking". "We
will clean up oil, tranny fluid, animal waste, and all other accidents
involving yucky discharge. We will be totally liable for you and your rig
while on our property."
Yeah, right.
Gary - KJ6Q
>Hunter
It's usually NOT OK to park overnite at rest stops - but police
frequently look the other way when it happens because they can't afford
the risk that a chased away overtired RV driver might fall asleep at the
wheel and create a massive accident that exposes the state to a liability
lawsuit.
The pro-parking lot camping group will QUICKLY jump in here with a
statement to the effect that ONLY overnite staying on business parking
lots is what they want - but what they totally OVERLOOK is the fact that
if that was abused, WHO would enforce the "overnite"limit"? If the local
police must, it's just ANOTHER taxpayer expense, and if the owners choose
to leave their MH for the day, they can't even be reached to remove their
rig. After all if their desired campground was full friday night, it will
undoubtedly remain full the entire weekend! And, if the waste tanks get
full while these campers are camped, where will they dump them? A local
business found out - after such a "guest" left an 80 gallon "thank you"
deposit on his parking lot. AHHhh, but THOSE incidents only happen once
every year or two, and MOST RVers are better than that, the pro-parking
lot group say. Well, OK, again picture YOUR street in front of your house
being used by transient RVers - who "*ONLY* once every year or so" leave
YOU with a similar "calling card", would you STILL support such a
permisive regulation? I doubt it - but those in favor of such a parking
regulation aren't the ones who would have to DEAL with those situations,
so it's EASY to be sympathetic to the poor weary RVer - at the
businessman's expense, of course!
Hunter, you realize I am addressing this primarily to the "pro" group,
NOT at you!
George Lowry
Gary - KJ6Q wrote:
Hi Gary,
You make some excellent points. The slob or pig is not welcome anywhere whether
they are in an RV or otherwise. I have stayed in motels that were noisy and
impossible to sleep because of the police being called in all night. (National
Chain) I have seen the slobs who have dumped tanks in the parking lot at Lake
Tahoe and as a result all RVs are banned.
I have also traveled the whole country and have stayed at numerous Walmart
stores. Note that the founder of Walmart, Sam Walton, is the one who issued the
invitation for RVers to stay at his stores and also was the one that had a map
published with the location af all Walmart and Sams Club. Obviously he doesn't
have a problem with it. And in most cases, the local people want the Walmart
store more than the others that are already there.
The founder of Camping World intended to have all his stores with hookups and
dump stations so that customers could have a place to stop for the night or
while waiting for service. The home office at Bowling Green, KY has a beautiful
location with fifty amp power, water and a dump station that is not being used
because the local campground objected to the competition. Other locations have
had to forgo even the dump stations because of local ordinances.
The Elks Club in Whittier, CA had to close their RV facilities because of the
local campgrounds.
I understand your comments about people camping on the street in front of my
house. However, don't forget that you own to the center of the street and pay
the taxes on that part of the street as part of your property. I personally find
it disgusting that I cannot stop at some of my friends for overnight because the
local politicos have decided to discriminate against the type vehicle I drive.
In the original post, the writer was trying to get support for the manager of
the Walmart store for a change in the local ordinance. A boycott is a recognized
method of encouraging political support.
Another point is the difference between "camping" and overnight stopping. When
we travel, if we are planning to stop for any length of time, we utilize
recognized facilities. When we are trying to make it from point A to Point B
which entails several days of driving, we have found that MOST campgrounds are
in convenient in that we MUST unhook the toad and set up for the night, then
rehook in the morning. We find it much more convenient to stop where we can
leave the rig in a drivable condition so we can hit the road early with minimum
disturbance to any neighbors. In MOST campgrounds that is impossible.
To the weekend RVer who drives two hours down the road and sets up for the week
end, this seems unreasonable. To those of us that really travel in our rigs,
there is a difference.
Again, I agree with you about the undesirability of slobs or pigs. These people
are not wanted in any condition, even as neighbors in the suburbs. But clean
considerate people should not have to be penalized for the few.
Soapbox off, Nomex fire suit on.
George
Gary - KJ6Q
>> feezing up on the MH?
>
>When the tanks are in the breeze (out in the open), nothing.
>I winter camp and let them freeze up. When I needed to dump
>I put plywood around the back and sides of the motorhome and
>heated the makeshift box with a torpedo heater. After 8 to
>12 hours I would dump into my test-T.
>
>My new motorhome has the tanks in the basement. That should
>be MUCH easier to heat.
>
>Steve
>
to the bottoms/sides of exposed tanks to keep them from freezing. I don't
know if they are 110 vac, or 12 vdc.
Gary - KJ6Q
bf...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (John Sankey) wrote:
>
>Gary
>You are entitled to express your personal opinions - that's what
>Usenet is for. But, you've gone far beyond that. Flames
>denigrate us all. Please give others with opinions and
>feelings on this issue the respect that you wish for yourself.
>John
PLEASE demonstrate, with quoted examples, ANY name-calling OR abuse that
I have used in this thread. It is my practice to express myself strongly
and clearly - it is NOT my practice to use name-calling, insults, or any
other method that I consider excessively abusive. If I HAVE done that, I
was wrong - but I will await your "examples" of my "far beyond that"
wrongdoing before any apologies are offered...
I will await your reply....
Norm Ramsay
About time somebody got it right......Great post
Vince Wirth
"Dick Campagna" <camp...@nothinbut.net> wrote:
>I hereby apologize to Mr V Wirth for placing his name in my note, below, in
>error. As I reread the thread, I realized that, to the contrary, Mr Wirth
>and I agree on this matter, and I picked up the wrong name. Sorry, Mr
>Wirth . . .
>--
>Per Favore, Non Mi Rompere i Coglioni.
Dick,
I accept only if you translate the above. Vince
P.S. I tried to E-Mail this to you but got bounced. V. W.
Gary - KJ6Q
George Lowry <ww...@ns.net> wrote:
>Again, I agree with you about the undesirability of slobs or pigs. These people
>are not wanted in any condition, even as neighbors in the suburbs. But clean
>considerate people should not have to be penalized for the few.
>
>Soapbox off, Nomex fire suit on.
>
>George
>
NAH, George no flames from me! Your points are excellent, and you have a
good grasp of mine. Certainly, there ARE places and circumstances where
non-standard overnight parking is an absolute necessity - we ran into one
ourselves on our return trip from Florida this past January. Our trailer
lost a complete wheel in Needles California on a late Saturday evening.
We managed to work our way to an abandoned service station on the edge of
town and stayed the night in it's parking area. That was ABSOLUTELY the
worse nights stay I have ever had! Early the next morning I was fortunate
enough to find a NAPA parts store that was open 'til noon, bought new
bearings, races and seal, repaired my wounded fiver and LEFT post-haste!
But, those situations are few and far between - and as far as "slobs" are
concerned, well, they don't wear identifying badges, so it's REAL hard to
sort tham out - until it's too late!
Nice post - thanks...
--
Gary..KJ6Q...
Gary - KJ6Q
bf...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (John Sankey) wrote:
>
>Gary
>You are entitled to express your personal opinions - that's what
>Usenet is for. But, you've gone far beyond that. Flames
>denigrate us all. Please give others with opinions and
>feelings on this issue the respect that you wish for yourself.
>John
HEY, JOHN - You abruptly broke into this group with the above post, and I
subsequently requested your submission of the quotes you had problems
with. Since that time you have made a number of posts on other subjects -
but no response to my request. SO, ARE there any "far beyond that"
flaming quotes from me - or are you just blowing smoke? It's true I have
disagreed with you, and SOME folks get so upset at being challenged on
their logic that they lose control of their composure - but that's hardly
reason enough for you, or anyone else to start crying foul! NO one will
last long here if they expect to be fully agreed with on everything they
say, including YOU.
SO, I submit that you owe it to me to either produce my offending
comments - or else RETRACT your accusation by the same means you MADE it!
How about it, are you up to the task?
--
Gary..KJ6Q...
M & V
In <8738137...@dejanews.com> john....@pobox.tbe.com writes:
-snip-
The perception seems to be that the
>ordinance was adopted to "protect" the business interests of local
>campgrounds; not for prevention of crime.
And, the point is? I am the first to tout "less government" but in a
case where you have a resort town in New England, KNOWING how much
taxes are payed out by the folks who afford the luxury of such a town,
I must agree with the ordinance. Afterall, the arguement of protecting
the business interest of a local campground does not hold water,
especially since the reason for overflo Wal-Mart parking is due to the
campground being booked and full. What if a hundred RVers decided to
go to Wareham, and park in the Wal-Mart parking lot? That would be a
sight. Not everyone has a Foretravel or Luxor motorhome. I have seen
quite a bit of drek at these campgrounds...not to mention people who
allow their kids and pets to run wild and stray. Or the junkyard style
of camping I also see at campgrounds. Complete with trash about,
clothes hanging all over the trees, etc...not a pretty sight for the
downtown parking lots.
Victoria
M & V
In <19970909175...@ladder02.news.aol.com> hham...@aol.com
(HHamp5246) writes:
>
>> The point of this discussion is the government's right
>>to control PRIVATE property. If the local Wal Mart or other fine
>>business does not want their parking lots used for RV parking all
they
>>have to do is place a conspicous sign and most people would adhere
>
>No...I think Gary is absolutely right. And...government does have a
right
>to control private property. We have sign ordinances which state
signs can
>only be so large....even signs on private property. When I lived on
Long
>Island Sound we had fence ordinances so we couldn't block our
neighbor's
>view of the water.
>
>Hunter
Of course. We recently looked at property. This was before we had the
RV bug...the property skirts a magnificent state park, Ray Hubbard I
believe. Anyway, this property was virgin, not grazed or
farmed...lovely. At ten thousand dollars per acre, it still had deed
restrictions. We were not willing to follow (to the letter) these deed
restrictions ON OUR PROSPECTIVE purchase, so we declined. It was that
easy. I lived on Long Island most of my life. Most of Long Island is
resort country in summer. I have seen some of the most atrocious stuff
come out of visitors being allowed to roam freely. For this reason,
the government, yes, the locals, had to begin to write ordinances and
enforce laws, while also paying private town police to do this
enforcing. The taxes were out of this world. In Brookhaven Hamlet,
which is a bedroom community on Long Island, for a two acre home, the
taxes were well above 11,000 dollars per year. Why, you ask? In great
part to pay the police which were brought in by the local town to
enforce these ordinances during summer. Try to pull this on the
beaches of South Hampton, on Dune Road...try it. There is a few
thousand dollar fine. Not to mention possible empounding of cars,
bikes, RVs etc...I strongly agree with local town ordinances which
disallow people to plop where they want; be it private or public
property. Don't break the law, no fine will ensue. Is this elitist?
You bet you ass it is. And you know what, tough. Even the elitists
work hard for their money.
Victoria
M & V
In <19970909173...@ladder02.news.aol.com> hham...@aol.com
(HHamp5246) writes:
>
>>I'm sure you got some other responses -- haven't read them all yet,
but I
>>thought I'd add to the skiiing thing. I go skiing up at Lake Tahoe
>(North Shore area) and around Sonora.
>
from
>feezing up on the MH?
>
>
>
Hunter, I belive you have a Luxor, which has a full basement and is
heated to keep tanks liquid. They also sell special arctic packages
for this type of winter travel in other rigs without full basements.
Victoria
M & V
After reading many lofty books about RV lifestyle, and how people earn
money with sewing machines etc...I would like to know who, if any of
you, earn some extra money while camping. I mean, I am a wiz with a
soldering iron, can sew, make anything from a blueprint, can clean, fix
and putter! So, what do you do other than workamp in parks and host,
etc...? Also, what, if anything, would you welcome as either a service
or item to purchase at a campsite? Did I articulate that well?
Victoria
M & V
In <01bcbd57$f7ac4d40$d429b7cc@curtis> "Curtis Tack"
<ct...@coastalnet.com> writes:
>
>
>[snip]
>| Isn't it okay to park overnight at highway rest stops?
>| Hunter
>|
>It depends on the state. Many places there will be signs specifically
>forbidding it.
>
>-- Curt Tack, retired in eastern NC
>~better a haz-bin than a never-wuz~
True. While I have yet to travel in an RV, I have traveled by
car/truck...I can say I have always had to stop for a nap, since I am a
maniac who likes to drive straight through everything...but at the same
time, I think a nap to freshen the senses, and staying overnight, (some
for whole weekends) in rest stops is what the ordinance disallows. If
a cop pulls into a rest area, and you politely tell him/her you were
falling asleep at the wheel...well, do the math. I cannot fathom a cop
would direct you to the exit. I also strongly recommend if you do pull
into a rest stop you tell the trucker next door you are doing so by CB
communication. Let others in that rest stop KNOW you plan to nap for
safety reasons. I find most truckers to be very protective of road
travelers, and of eachother. And be careful at rest stops. They are
not safe havens...not by a longshot.
Victoria
Andrew
M & V wrote:
>
> In <01bcbd57$f7ac4d40$d429b7cc@curtis> "Curtis Tack"
> <ct...@coastalnet.com> writes:
> >
> >
> >[snip]
> >| Isn't it okay to park overnight at highway rest stops?
> >| Hunter
> >|
> >It depends on the state. Many places there will be signs specifically
> >forbidding it.
> >
> >-- Curt Tack, retired in eastern NC
*************************************************************
Andy writes:
In Texas, there are numerous rest stops since
everything in the state is 100 miles from everything else.
At these rest areas along the interstates it is posted that :
"--- you can stay at the rest areas for 24 hours. But you are
not allowed to erect a shelter or tent. ---"
In other words, pulling in to take a nap is fine. There are picnic
areas , bathrooms, and running water available. Texas is very
user friendly to travelers and I have used these spots for naps
or midnight to dawn rests many times. AND the bathrooms are
CLEAN.
They are regularly patrolled by police who know the Texas laws and
are protective of travellers. Usually a bunch of trucks in temporary
residence also. I RARELY hear of rest area crimes, tho I tend to be
very alert in these situations.
AND IN TEXAS , a large number of the people who are stopped will have
carry permits for weapons. A robber would be a fool to accost a
vehicle with Texas plates in a Texas rest stop. (Most of the people
who are carrying weapons, did so even before it was legal, anyway.)
You are really only at risk when you get out of your vehicle to go
to the rest room or snack bar.
The Rand McNally travel book which has maps of all the states, also
has a section in the front that lists which states allow this
overnight parking in rest areas. NOT VERY MANY !!!
Perhaps other states are not as friendly to travelers.
*****************************************************************
Judy
ani...@ix.netcom.com(M & V) writes: > After reading many lofty books about RV lifestyle, and how people earn
your fingernails grow long. Tried to e-mail you but message bounced.
Judy
Gary - KJ6Q
hham...@aol.com (HHamp5246) wrote:
>> we ran into one
>>ourselves on our return trip from Florida this past January. Our trailer
>>lost a complete wheel in Needles California on a late Saturday evening.
>>We managed to work our way to an abandoned service station on the edge of
>>town and stayed the night in it's parking area. That was ABSOLUTELY the
>>worse nights stay I have ever had!
>
>
>
We were returning home early because of increasing back pain I was
experiencing 6 months or so following back surgery - I ended up being
operated on again last March. But the discomfort made driving and
sleeping difficult. The place we were forced to stop was at the very edge
of Needles, right next to the railroad tracks where the switching yard
is. Behind the abandoned service station where we parked was a bunch of
old trailers which apparently housed the railroad workers - who were
CONSTANTLY driving/walking past our rig to/from the switching yard -
doesn't really make for a good nights rest when you hear constant
footsteps outside your bedroom! Of course, at that point I had NO idea
whether I could repair our damaged wheel or not - or whether the needed
parts were even available in Needles. Plus, it was VERY cloudy, rain was
forcast, my painful back made working on the wheel difficult.... Well, I
guess you get the picture! Home looked REAL good the next day...
HHamp5246
HHamp5246
>Hunter, I belive you have a Luxor, which has a full basement and is
>heated to keep tanks liquid. They also sell special arctic packages
>for this type of winter travel in other rigs without full basements.
LOL!!!! In my dreams Victoria............ What I actually have is a 1974
Airstream Argosy.
Hunter
M & V
In <19970910153...@ladder01.news.aol.com> hham...@aol.com
(HHamp5246) writes:
>
>LOL!!!! In my dreams Victoria............ What I actually have is a
1974
>Airstream Argosy.
>
>Hunter
Hahahaha! Wanna ride? Hahaha! I don't know why I thought that, but I
am still smiling. :)
Victoria-must be mid-month...if ya know what I mean!
M & V
In <5v6akp$aba$1...@opal.southwind.net> Judy <big...@horizon.hit.net>
writes:
Hey, sue me, I'm doing a sociological survey! My nails will never be
long and beautiful unless they are glued on! Heavens knows I tried...
I just think it will be fun having something to do, earn a few bucks,
keep us in a 'cause' mode, etc...
Victoria
BELFAST4
>> I'm not "griping about the mail", but AGAINST the idea that YOUR RV
>> accomodations and desire to park your rig on property where you are
>> neither wanted OR permitted by law should be recognized by those who are
>> in NO way obligated or interested in doing so. MANY people want to see
>> major attractions of ALL sorts all across this country - major boxing
>> matches, ball games etc. But their DESIRE to go and see these events in
>> NO way obligates disinterested third parties to accomodate them. Can't
>> find a place to park your RV because you didn't think to make/check
>> reservations first? *TOUGH*, YOUR misfortune of failure to plan ahead
>> doesn't give you a license to kill - OR to waltz into the nearest parking
>> lot expecting the management to roll out the red carpet for you. AND, if
>> YOU don't like the criticism you are receiving HERE for your boorish
>> attitude, YOU may take your complaints elsewhere!
You people betterchill or I'll make another post about dogs in
campgrounds.
Dennis
BIG D
Just trying to "Ease On Down The Road"
http://members.aol.com/BELFAST4/index.html
DCKirker
>After reading many lofty books about RV lifestyle, and how people earn
<snip>
Also, what, if anything, would you welcome as either a service
or item to purchase at a campsite? Did I articulate that well?
Victoria
We see a lot of "flea markets" and see trinkets, etc...that seem to sell
well. Find a niche product and people will knock the doors down purchase.
Be clever and original.
See y'all down the road one day.
19 days and counting down.
Dave Kirker
aka "Bounder"
Lynne
DCKirker wrote:
>
> >After reading many lofty books about RV lifestyle, and how people earn
>
> <snip>
> Also, what, if anything, would you welcome as either a service
> or item to purchase at a campsite? Did I articulate that well?
>
> Victoria
>
If I could just get my hands on enough of those Beanie Babies...<g>
Alan Sanderson
> >> feezing up on the MH?
> >
> >I winter camp and let them freeze up. When I needed to dump
> >I put plywood around the back and sides of the motorhome and
> >heated the makeshift box with a torpedo heater. After 8 to
> >12 hours I would dump into my test-T.
> >
> >My new motorhome has the tanks in the basement. That should
> >be MUCH easier to heat.
> >
> >Steve
> >
> Places like Camping World sell adhesive strip-heaters that can be secured
> to the bottoms/sides of exposed tanks to keep them from freezing. I don't
> know if they are 110 vac, or 12 vdc.
They are available to operate on both voltages. They were about
$100 each. They also had smaller strips for the pipes.
HHamp5246
>Also, what, if anything, would you welcome as either a service
>or item to purchase at a campsite? Did I articulate that well?
That's easy.......... a phone hookup so we could use computers to get email.
Hunter
fran...@pipeline.com
George I posted the original post and we will continue with the boycott.
Thank for re-iterating my points. We are not camping in parking lots we
simply want to stay overnight and leave early the next morning. You are
also right about Sam Walton and the willingness that Walmart's exhibit
to have us be there. Your point about visiting friends is also valid. If
your friend allows you to park on his overtaxed private property for a
limited period of time the local pols should stay out of it.
The bottom line to this entire situation is that all these ordinances
are the result of campgrounds and in some cases hotels/motels who exert
pressure on the local pols to protect them. What they don't realize that
it will backfire on them. My group of friends will not only boycott the
busineses in the area but the campgrounds as well. Remember I heard with
my own ears a campground owner brag that he fought for the ordinance and
charges a full nights camping fee to anyone who stops in to use his
dumping facilities. As far as Gary goes don't give him any more
attention he has misqouted and misrepresented or twisted almost the
entire contents of my post. I had to laugh when he stated " They did
not want Wal-Mart there in the first place" he surely is quite an expert
on all matters.
We will continue to fight this for however long it takes to get the
local pols to see the error in thier judgement both on the Cape and
anywhere else we find these restrictive, self-serving, petty, laws. If
we are not successful then so be it but at least we tried for everyone.
Gary on the other hand seems to be very content allowing a small
minority of self serving people make laws that he will obey with out
question because "There are laws and rules, and if people cannot follow
them, do not go to their towns" It appears that the number of sheeple in
this "free" "democratic" country are increasing at a unprecedented rate.
Comments always welcome.
P.S. The Good Sam Organization regularly reports on and fights
regulations that infringe on RVer's rights.
fran...@pipeline.com
Victoria,
There is a simple solution to your concerns. They could allow overnight
PARKING we do not plan on camping in a parking lot. It would be a simple
matter of having the store set up a rule's such as no playing by kids in
the lot, no chairs, etc and if people will not abide by it the manager
has every right "and we would support him 100 %" to ask you to leave
and/or call the police. When I stay at camgrounds I won't stand for such
behavior so why would I in a parking lot while trying to sleep. By the
way the groups I have met usually pull in draw the curtains and sleep.
I remind you that this particular store manager told me personnaly that
he has allowed the practice for the last seven years he has been the
store manager and has never had a problem.
fran...@pipeline.com
> You bet you ass it is. And you know what, tough. Even the elitists
> work hard for their money.
>
> Victoria
Victoria,
We are the government ! They work to serve us not the other way around.
Although it's hard to tell nowadays. I will agree that if the people of
the town were allowed to vote on the issue and decided that they were
against the parking I would aplaud their decision. The reality however
is that there was no vote. Instead someone knew someone who new the
local pol and asked for a favor "protection of their campground". BTW
after the police began giving out fines the campground closest to the
area raised their rates $10.00 a night. Think it was just by accident ?
M & V
In <19970910195...@ladder01.news.aol.com> belf...@aol.com
(BELFAST4) writes:
>
> You people betterchill or I'll make another post about dogs in
>campgrounds.
> Dennis
>
>
Hey Dennis,
BEEEEEEEEEE FREEEEEEEEEEEEE! And be confident, I will not have my dog
running askew in any campground.
Victoria
M & V
In <341782...@pipeline.com> fran...@pipeline.com writes:
>Victoria,
>There is a simple solution to your concerns. They could allow
overnight
>PARKING we do not plan on camping in a parking lot. It would be a
simple
>matter of having the store set up a rule's such as no playing by kids
in
>the lot, no chairs, etc and if people will not abide by it the manager
>has every right "and we would support him 100 %" to ask you to leave
>and/or call the police. When I stay at camgrounds I won't stand for
such
>behavior so why would I in a parking lot while trying to sleep. By
the
>way the groups I have met usually pull in draw the curtains and sleep.
>I remind you that this particular store manager told me personnaly
that
>he has allowed the practice for the last seven years he has been the
>store manager and has never had a problem.
Oh, sorry. I was under the impression commerce was set up in the area
to sell merchandise. I was not aware there would be a side bar
campground in the parking lot. Now I know fully, as I knew before, why
people in these historic towns strongly protest the addition of a
Wal-Mart. I am still in complete agreement with the ordinance. Why is
that so hard for you to understand? Are you aware of the fact that
most of the homeowners in these historic towns are not allowed to just
paint their homes without first being approved for color by the
historic commission? Why would these people want a Wal-Mart, which
usually looks like a dank drekstop to begin with, in the middle of
their town, with a big ugly or not ugly rig in the lot? I think you
and others should learn to plan your vacations or stop overs better so
you don't come into a situation where you have to live overnight in a
parking lot WHERE the people of that town pay taxes and live...and who
do NOT want it! Sheesh, get over it already. I wonder, would you stay
overnight in a Wal-Mart parking lot if it were across the street from a
big housing project in New Orleans? Didn't think so.
Victoria
john....@pobox.tbe.com
In article <5v3slb$s...@snews1.zippo.com>,
Gary - KJ6Q <te...@thereporter.com> wrote:
>
> john....@pobox.tbe.com wrote:
>
> >Gary, Gary, Gary there you go again. The local government has every
> >right, in fact they are obligated, to control streets, which are public
> >property. No one is arguing that (even if they don't agree with the
> >regulations). The point of this discussion is the government's right
> >to control PRIVATE property.
>
> AHHHhh, THAT makes SOOOO much easier, MY stuff isn't threatened, or MY
> peace and serenity disturbed....
>
> If the local Wal Mart or other fine
> >business does not want their parking lots used for RV parking all they
>
> "MOST" people ALREADY agree that parking lots of private businesses
> aren't acceptable places to allow RV parking - it's the FEW who think
> that THEIR poor planning and "special" circumstance exempt THEM from
> exclusion, and obligate OTHERS who are totally uninvolved to accomodate
> their self inflicted "needs"! And THESE are the very ones who would/will
> NOT merely accept those posted signs - as they are NOW!
>
> >
>
> HEY, isn't that life! People can be SOOOOO compassionate about being
> generous and sacrificial of OTHER peoples rights and freedoms - but just
> move that problem to THEIR front door, and the squeals of protest begin
> in high gear! The guy sitting in the comfort and pleasant seclusion of
> his own front room sees NO problem opening the door to RVers on local
> parking lots, after all, HE isn't directly affected - so whats the big
> deal? But once that practice is allowed "officially", what is the
> potential impact to the business and the community? Those in favor of
> this practice would like to picture in their mind a nice. elderly couple
> in a neat and clean RV, just looking for a spot at the back of the lot to
> sleep for a few hours, and then be on their way. But made official, what
> happens when the grungy 40 foot MH pulls up in FRONT of the store, towing
> a much abused off road vehicle behind it, and begins unloading 3 snarling
> Rottweilers, 6 screaming kids and playing their acid rock at full volume?
> What happens when they unhitch the 4-wheeler, load up the family and tie
> the dogs to the bumper of the MH, and take off for the day? NO PROBLEM
> you say, YOU just won't shop while they are there, and after all, YOU'RE
> still safe and comfortable in YOUR front room...
>
> It's EASY to be "compassionate", as long as it's the OTHER GUYS ox being
> gored!
>
> --
> Gary..KJ6Q... Horn broken - watch for finger...
> ====================================================
> It *IS* as bad as you think, they ARE out to get you!
> ====================================================
Gary, you've GOT to get your horn fixed!!
I know I don't speak for all RVers but I for one would never stay in a
place I was not welcome either because of a law (even though I don't
agree with it) or because of the owner's desires. Wal Mart, Flying
J, and others, because of corporate policy, encourages me and others to
take advantage of what they perceive as a good business practice. That
unto itself should stop your bitching. I would encourage you to
organize a boycott, such as the starter of this tread is doing, to
point out to Wal Mart the error of their ways. As far as slobs are
concerned, have you ever noticed the trash in a large Wal Mart or K
Mart parking lot? Empty oil can, beer cans/bottles, soft drink
containers, newspapers, advertisements, flyers, and all sorts of
rubbish. Most of these items are residue from products purchased from
that store, most likely. RVers do not have a monopoly on slobs,
they're everywhere!!
John Stone (horn works fine, but still watch the finger)
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Gary - KJ6Q
john....@pobox.tbe.com wrote:
As far as slobs are
>concerned, have you ever noticed the trash in a large Wal Mart or K
>Mart parking lot? Empty oil can, beer cans/bottles, soft drink
>containers, newspapers, advertisements, flyers, and all sorts of
>rubbish.
OF course, John is attempting to assure us that those parking lots will
be MUCH cleaner when SHOPPERS are prevented from using them because they
are NOW filled by RVs instead....
Most of these items are residue from products purchased from
>that store, most likely. RVers do not have a monopoly on slobs,
>they're everywhere!!
CORRECT! And MANY of them are to be found driving RVs and 'Shopping" for
FREE parking...
OH, John, I hope you find my new sig line less disturbing than the last
one that kept causing you distress... :^)
--
Gary..KJ6Q... Two great lies of the '90's....
=======================================================
"I don't remember" - Do it "for the children"
=======================================================
Many who whine for justice SHOULD be praying for mercy.
=======================================================
Gary - KJ6Q
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fran...@pipeline.com WHo *OBVIOUSLY* hasn't a CLUE as to how to
read group posts and keep track of who said WHAT, wrote...
--
Gary..KJ6Q... Two great lies of the '90's....
=======================================================
"I don't remember" - Do it "for the children"
=======================================================
Many who whine for justice SHOULD be praying for mercy.
=======================================================
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To: fran...@pipeline.com
From: Gary - KJ6Q <te...@thereporter.com>
Subject: Re: Overnight Parking at Walmart in Wareham MA
Cc:
Bcc:
X-Attachments:
THE *SAD* fact is, ALL the "nasty" quotes you attributed to ME, above,
were NOT made by me, but OTHERS in the group who shared my views!
Not ONLY are your sef-serving demands of merchants to provide you with
free parking based in blackmail and error - your ability to read and
properly attribute Internet posts to the PROPER authors is sadly deficient
as well! Rest happy in the full knowledge that for every whining cheapskate
RVer in YOUR group that is demanding a parking handout from merchants,
there are vastly MORE who are against it, and who will support those
merchents and city councils who refuse your threats.
MEANWHILE, try to learn to read, understand, and properly identify who
said WHAT in internet newsgroups - you ingnorance in this area makes you
appear quite SILLY!
>=1A
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Ned Bulken
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I spent some time in my trucking days, Delivering freight from a
distribution center for WAL*MART all over the New England, New York
area. the way that W*M runs their deliveries, is tht typically the
driver will spend the night, in his truck on the W*M property. The
exceptions to this, were all MA stores, where the local ordinances did
not allow the drivers to idle their truck, indeed there were a few where
we could not even deliver past 10:pm.
As for the wareham store, I don't recall if that was one of the
so-called noise ordinance stores, but I wouldn't bet against it being
one.
And, furthermore, I vote in the 'why expect them to let you stay' camp.
If you're going to rv, don't presume that you can bivouac anywhere you
like. If you're going to RV, limited budget or no, pay your own way.
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Marion
From a trucker's view point, how do you feel about RV's in the rest area?
Do truckers feel RVers are invading their space?
Ned Bulken <e...@borg.com> wrote in article <341857D1...@borg.com>...
> <clip>
Conrad A. Thomaier
I wonder how small mom-and-pop department stores would feel if a
multi-billion campground corporation were to give away the products the
department stores sell at the campground corporation's nearby
campgrounds?
(This of course wouldn't happen, but I hope you see my point.)
I suspect that most campground owners are not getting rich, and don't
appreciate the multi-billion dollar, very profitable, Walmart
corporation giving away what they are trying to sell.
T, Patrick Culp
fran...@pipeline.com wrote:
>
> George Lowry wrote:
this "free" "democratic" country
When was the last time you voted in this "free democratic country" to
increase your income tax?
--
The above may be only an opinion depending on how accurate it is
perceived to be.
******* T. Patrick Culp *******
Pinnacle Valve & Instrument
http://www.pinnacleweb.com
T, Patrick Culp
<<snip>>
---------------------------------------------------------------
I would like the addresses of all the people that thinks that it is ok
to park their RVs wherever they want to. I figure I could camp in
driveways all over the country and never again have to pay for a camp
site again. Oh yeah, please leave the door open to the house so we can
use the bathroom.. :)
uh what do you mean, "NO" ????
George Lowry
I have a hard time understanding why Sam Walton extended the invitation if he did not want the RVers to stop. Note: just
overnight, not set up housekeeping. I have never been at a Walmart where RVs have taken up space that prevented regular
customers form getting in with ease. Personally, when we stop, we always park at the far end where there are no others
around. The manager has always been very courteous and in fact many have said that it was not necessary to ask, it was Walmart
policy.
Where we stop and when is a matter of convienence. We have found very few campground that cater to or really want the
traveler. They want some one that is going to stay for several days. The person that comes in late and leaves early disturbs
everyone else and is not wanted. It is not a case of trying to find something for "free". In fact, we usually spend more at
the Walmart store than if we could have stayed at a campground. We also have found most Walmart employees to be more courteous
than many of the campgrounds.
George
Ned Bulken wrote:
> <clip>
> I spent some time in my trucking days, Delivering freight from a
> distribution center for WAL*MART all over the New England, New York
> area. the way that W*M runs their deliveries, is tht typically the
> driver will spend the night, in his truck on the W*M property. The
> exceptions to this, were all MA stores, where the local ordinances did
> not allow the drivers to idle their truck, indeed there were a few where
> we could not even deliver past 10:pm.
>
> As for the wareham store, I don't recall if that was one of the
> so-called noise ordinance stores, but I wouldn't bet against it being
> one.
>
> And, furthermore, I vote in the 'why expect them to let you stay' camp.
> If you're going to rv, don't presume that you can bivouac anywhere you
> like. If you're going to RV, limited budget or no, pay your own way.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Ned Bulken <e...@borg.com>
>
> Ned Bulken
> <e...@borg.com>
> HTML Mail
> Netscape Conference Address
> Netscape Conference DLS Server
> Additional Information:
> Last Name Bulken
> First Name Ned
Dick Campagna
M & V <ani...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<5v6501$f...@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>...
>
> In <01bcbd57$f7ac4d40$d429b7cc@curtis> "Curtis Tack"
> <ct...@coastalnet.com> writes:
(stuff snipped)
> And be careful at rest stops. They are not safe havens...not by a
longshot.
And another good reason to have a dog . . . or two . . . in your RV. We
do!
Per Favore, Non Mi Rompere i Coglioni. Grazie!
Dick C.
Dave
Believe it or not I have thought about this very thing. Sort of like a
bed and breakfast idea nation wide for fellow RVers!
You know what, just about the time the thing got going some assholes
would make a law making it illegal!
I would like to hear from those who think this just might not be a bad
idea?
Too many laws and too much bullshit! What's wrong with making RV parks
so nice that a person would prefer being in it instead of Walmart
parking lot?
Why do some places cost almost as much as a cheap Motel? You know, they
think every person that owns an RV has money coming out of their ears.
Not
I've stayed in Walmart parking lots before and I park right next to the
other rigs.
When I'm traveling, if I had to stay in an RV park every stinking night
I would only be able to use the darn thing about half as much. I always
try and stay in an RV park one night and boondock one or two nights.
Sure saves money so we can spend it on other fun things while seeing
this wonderful country of ours.
I may have spent the night in front of your house before. This is a
common practice of ours. We pull into a residential area about 11 or 12
p.m. and go to bed. The next morning I'm gone before you get the sleep
out of your eyes. Now I bet that pisses you off. Personally I don't
see a thing wrong with it.
To me what you are saying is similar to, let's say they have whole
chickens on sale down the street for 59 cents a pound and around the
corner they are selling the same chicken for $1.29 a pound, you would
want me to go pay $1.29 a pound. What the hell do you care what I do or
where I do it?
Life is full of choices and I will stay the night where ever the hell I
want to and don't appreciate no one telling me I can't. I would imagine
if you thought about it you wouldn't either.
Freedom is really becoming a joke around here.
Dave T.
M & V
In <34175C...@Scott.Net> Lynne <Ly...@Scott.Net> writes:
>
>If I could just get my hands on enough of those Beanie Babies...<g>
Aye Carumba! I have a girlfriend who is in financial trouble, yet, her
daughter has a collection of approximately 50 of these beanie baby
things...About a year ago, I bought a Beany Baby Giraffe for my mom.
She collects and loves giraffes, but I had no idea I was buying into
some marketing kid scam! Oh well...
Are you saying I should copy them and make Beany Babies?
Victoria
M & V
In <8739907...@dejanews.com> john....@pobox.tbe.com writes:
-snip-
As far as slobs are
>concerned, have you ever noticed the trash in a large Wal Mart or K
>Mart parking lot? Empty oil can, beer cans/bottles, soft drink
>containers, newspapers, advertisements, flyers, and all sorts of
>rubbish. Most of these items are residue from products purchased from
>that store, most likely. RVers do not have a monopoly on slobs,
>they're everywhere!!
>
>John Stone (horn works fine, but still watch the finger)
Yes, and this is exactly why an upscale, historical, resort town does
NOT want Wal-Marts moving in. In Yiddish, this is called "drek." The
Wal-Mart in our town has volunteers from the county Extension office
who regularly clean the parking lot for Wal-Mart. Now, if you ask me,
this is poor commerce. This town in which we live has grown from 25,000
to over 100,000 in less than 4 years, so I suppose the more people, the
more drek necessary to satiate their drek needs. No place does this
better than a Wal-Mart. IMO.
Victoria
Betty & Bob Thayer
We have to agree with George, last time out we stopped in Fresno, CA,
102 degrees that day and not much cooler at 9:00 pm when we stopped to
do some last minute shopping at Walmart. We were hot, tired and a
hazard on the highway at that point. Having read in this NG that
Walmart permitted overnight parking, we asked the Security Guard if it
was permissible to sack out for a few hours. We were not only told that
we were welcome, but were asked to move our rig in closer to the front
door & in the light so that they could provide us with better security.
THANK YOU WALMART !
Betty & Bob
M & V
In <34186981...@netone.com> "Conrad A. Thomaier"
not giving anything away to anybody. They move into small towns and
literally distroy the businesses of people who have been there for
decades. So do places like Home Depot and Lowes. I have nothing
against them making a dollar, but for people to think that Sam
Walwhatever allows RVers to stay because he is a kind soul, think
again. He knows EXACTLY what he is doing. Just like he knew exactly
where Kathy Lees clothes were being manufactured. By little children
who worked for nothing, in hot, sweatshops, in very poor
countries...where those wages did not even pay for food. Yeah, Sam,
what a guy-slap-a-made-in-the-USA-sign, in full red, white and blue up
over the storefront...Free Rv. Bullshit already. I must back out of
this discussion. It is no longer worth my energy or time. It appears
the majority of people in this newsgroup are in full agreement. Thus,
in a democracy, the majority rules.
Victoria
M & V
In <34177E...@pipeline.com> fran...@pipeline.com writes:
-snip-
If
>your friend allows you to park on his overtaxed private property for a
>limited period of time the local pols should stay out of it.
Good thing the local police don't stay out of it. If I lived in a
small New England town I would not want a giant RV sitting outside my
house, possibly prohibiting me from seeing around the small corner, or
possibly blocking my view to the high taxed view of the water.
Whatever...
>The bottom line to this entire situation is that all these ordinances
>are the result of campgrounds and in some cases hotels/motels who
exert
>pressure on the local pols to protect them.
When you present proof of this, I will start to listen. Till then, I
will remain telling you the local people are the ones who attent city
and town council meetings, and THEY are the ones who make the
suggestions regarding this sort of thing. The local government votes on
the people who take the time to get on the agenda, and who have their
5-10 minutes to speak at the podium. If you got involved in your own
council meetings you would know how this works. I find it remarkably
disgusting you would boycott a town where you don't even live or pay
any taxes.
What they don't realize that
>it will backfire on them. My group of friends will not only boycott
the
>busineses in the area but the campgrounds as well.
Good! Go somewhere else.
Remember I heard with
>my own ears a campground owner brag that he fought for the ordinance
and
>charges a full nights camping fee to anyone who stops in to use his
>dumping facilities.
...and not only is this well within his/her rights, it is also well
within your rights to not visit his campground. But no, you are going
to boycott. Interesting. I love these "groups" who boycott. I love
how the "christian right" is going to boycott Disney because they give
health benefits to gay couples...sounds like hate to me. Oh well, I'm
glad to be a Pagan.
As far as Gary goes don't give him any more
>attention he has misqouted and misrepresented or twisted almost the
>entire contents of my post. I had to laugh when he stated " They did
>not want Wal-Mart there in the first place" he surely is quite an
expert
>on all matters.
I also stated the people of the town (you refer to) did not want
Wal-Mart there. I will bet the farm if you attend their next council
meeting, and if you asked for a show of hands as to whether they did or
didn't want Wal-Mart glutting up their historical town with drek, you
would see for yourself. Point is, if the town cannot accomodate people
in their rather small facilities, do NOT go there. Find another place
to go.
>We will continue to fight this for however long it takes to get the
>local pols to see the error in thier judgement both on the Cape and
>anywhere else we find these restrictive, self-serving, petty, laws.
Oh boy, I hope you always stay in that RV, and never invest in resort
property. I wonder, would you be the neighbor on the block with the
clothes lines hanging out in front just to spite the ordinance?
Remember, these ordinances were set up to control the unruly crowds
which come to their small towns in summer. These people are trying to
protect their interests, and I fully support them to do so.
If
>we are not successful then so be it but at least we tried for
everyone.
Who's everyone? Don't count me in this "everyone." Speak for
yourself.
>Gary on the other hand seems to be very content allowing a small
>minority of self serving people make laws that he will obey with out
>question because "There are laws and rules, and if people cannot
follow
>them, do not go to their towns" It appears that the number of sheeple
in
>this "free" "democratic" country are increasing at a unprecedented
rate.
>Comments always welcome.
All said by someone who did not buy property in said town, or township.
All said by someone who does not pay property taxes to said town. I
agree with Gary fully on this one. If a town member goes to council,
gets on the agenda, speaks their mind, the town agrees, the council
votes, period the end. And if the campground owner is a member of that
town, yes, he has the right to get on the agenda and speak his/her
mind. You do not live in the town, GET OUT! Yes, that is their right.
Yes, that is how it works. There is no law saying you have the right
to plop wherever you want, whenever you want, in any town in New
England. I think we have a lot of freedom in this wonderful country of
ours, the USA, but this is one freedom you do not have. You do not
have the right to infringe on the lifestyles of folks who do NOT
WELCOME you fully into their towns. No, you do not. Go boycott. Do
your thing. Boycott Disney while you're at it. Might as well.
>
>P.S. The Good Sam Organization regularly reports on and fights
>regulations that infringe on RVer's rights.
What rights are being infringed upon? The right to block someones view
of the water they pay dearly to see? Sheesh. If your friend had
enough property to house your RV ON the property, nobody could say a
thing. No, you are not usually allowed to park a rig in the street in
front of someones house. I know of no ordinance which disallows you
from parking within the confines of someone's property, and that
usually ends at the line where the sidewalk or parkway begins. You
cannot pull into a driveway and stick out ten feet into the street. The
rest belongs to the town or city in which you live. If they want to
dig it up to install pipes, they can do so without your permission.
They have a line, and that line ends at some point. NO you do not own
the street. Thank goodness.
Victoria
M & V
>
>Believe it or not I have thought about this very thing. Sort of like
a
>bed and breakfast idea nation wide for fellow RVers!
Yes, its called a campground.
>
>You know what, just about the time the thing got going some assholes
>would make a law making it illegal!
>
>I would like to hear from those who think this just might not be a bad
>idea?
You still did not state your idea. What idea are you now fighting
against the lawmakers to proceed with?
>
>Too many laws and too much bullshit! What's wrong with making RV
parks
>so nice that a person would prefer being in it instead of Walmart
>parking lot?
There are many, many, many of them. They are referred to as Resort
Parks. They are also expensive places which you would not want to buck
up for. There are many thousands of campsites in this wonderfully
lawful country of ours for you to stay. They may not have as many as
you like in New England, but there is a good reason for that. They
don't want to pay taxes to allow freeloaders to come to their very
expensive beaches and towns.
>
>Why do some places cost almost as much as a cheap Motel? You know,
they
>think every person that owns an RV has money coming out of their ears.
If you don't have enought money to RV, why are you doing it? RVing is
not a cheap way to live. Not by a longshot. Hey, I have a great idea
for you, there is a place in Arizona called "Slab City." They live
there in their little heaven, no water, no electricity, but plenty of
nice folks. It is free too! Go there.
>Not
>
>I've stayed in Walmart parking lots before and I park right next to
the
>other rigs.
Glad our Wal-Mart appears to be off the beaten track. I have never
seen an RV camped out in the lot. Especially since there are
approximately 5 campgrounds all within a ten mile radius of the town,
with all different price ranges.
>
>When I'm traveling, if I had to stay in an RV park every stinking
night
>I would only be able to use the darn thing about half as much. I
always
>try and stay in an RV park one night and boondock one or two nights.
>Sure saves money so we can spend it on other fun things while seeing
>this wonderful country of ours.
But you still don't get it. The folks of the town in New England do
NOT WANT YOU BOONDOCKING IN THEIR FRIGGIN TOWN! Go boondock in the
woods somewhere, not in the parking lots in town.
>
>I may have spent the night in front of your house before. This is a
>common practice of ours. We pull into a residential area about 11 or
12
>p.m. and go to bed. The next morning I'm gone before you get the
sleep
>out of your eyes. Now I bet that pisses you off. Personally I don't
>see a thing wrong with it.
Have you stayed on Napolean St. in New Orleans yet? I hear the
*projects* are really smokin' in the heat of the summer. Better yet,
why not just drive down St. Peters off Bourbon St. and park. Why not
just park outside the Empire State Building? Or the World Trade
Center? Or outside my grandmothers apartment on Manhattan at Broadway
and 110 st? Why choose a residential area where the glass is bevelled?
I'll tell you why, you are an elitist in your own sneaky little way.
>
>To me what you are saying is similar to, let's say they have whole
>chickens on sale down the street for 59 cents a pound and around the
>corner they are selling the same chicken for $1.29 a pound, you would
>want me to go pay $1.29 a pound. What the hell do you care what I do
or
>where I do it?
We, I, don't care. And no, this is not a good analogy. You are
comparing paying for something, with paying nothing. This is not your
arguement above. You didn't say you sought to pay, but in a less
expensive space. You wanted to live free in a parking lot of an
exclusive town where people pay extremely high taxes. Another analogy
which does not hold water. How old are you?
>
>Life is full of choices and I will stay the night where ever the hell
I
>want to and don't appreciate no one telling me I can't. I would
imagine
>if you thought about it you wouldn't either.
>
>Freedom is really becoming a joke around here.
>
>Dave T.
As long as it's YOUR freedom...I see. What about the freedom of the
townsfolk who do NOT want your presence? I suppose it all boils down
to the ME ME I I ME ME I I scenario this country is slowly taking on.
When was the last time you volunteered to help a church, or temple in
exchange for staying in THEIR parking lot overnight? I didn't think
so. Look buddy, we have the money to RV. No, I do not have to work.
Yes, I luxuriate at home with my crafts and hobbies. Yes siree I do.
But I also give back by being a volunteer in my community. I will
continue to do this when we RV as a lifestyle. The more you give, the
more you receive. Take a good look at your true self and figure out
why you continue to run up against strife and ruffle. There is a grand
scheme in a Universal way. This arguement of "I will stay wherever I
want, whenever I want" is the reason why you continually (apparantly)
run into such adversity. The pay back is a bitch, so they say. You are
one good example of how this works. Best to you. Stay off my block
bud, or my Ozzy dog will escort your butt, with a chunk out of it, off
the block. Bye, the end.
victoria
Gary Carter
>It is no longer worth my energy or time. It appears
>the majority of people in this newsgroup are in full agreement. Thus,
>in a democracy, the majority rules.
>
>Victoria
Actually in our democracy it is usually a howling minority that rule.
It was a minority that rebelled against the king and in many locales
it really is local howling campground owners that shout unfair and put
through local ordanices (sp) dealing with parking of RVs. In fact,
one of the leading agendas of the national campground organization
(don't remember their officail name) is trying to pass local ordances
against RVs in rest stops, truck stops, etc.
We have these pandering laws in all areas of our lives.
Anyway traveleing, we've spent nights in rest stops, truck stops,
roadside sleeping areas, main streets, town parks, shopping malls and
yes campgrounds when we desire their services. Normally we stay in
destination campgrounds, but avoid inroute campgrounds.
I do have a problems with RVers using the above as destination
camping.
Just my two bits worth
Gary
Remove quotes from e-mail for direct reply.
Dave
M & V wrote:
> >You know what, just about the time the thing got going some assholes
> >would make a law making it illegal!
> >
> >I would like to hear from those who think this just might not be a bad
> >idea?
>
> You still did not state your idea. What idea are you now fighting
> against the lawmakers to proceed with?
The idea of offering your driveway for others on the road. Maybe having
a book published giving the locations and phone numbers of those willing
to do the same.
> If you don't have enought money to RV, why are you doing it?
I enjoy it and again why do you care what I do or where I do it? No
sweat off your back. I thought that is what freedom was all about, we
can do what we want when we want as long as it doesn't infringe on
others rights.
Please explain how people parking at Walmart hurts you or anyone else
for that matter?
RVing is
> not a cheap way to live. Not by a longshot. Hey, I have a great idea
> for you, there is a place in Arizona called "Slab City." They live
> there in their little heaven, no water, no electricity, but plenty of
> nice folks. It is free too! Go there.
Thanks for the tip and yes I do plan on checking out Slab City just as
soon as I get the chance.
> >I've stayed in Walmart parking lots before and I park right next to
> the
> >other rigs.
>
> Glad our Wal-Mart appears to be off the beaten track. I have never
> seen an RV camped out in the lot. Especially since there are
> approximately 5 campgrounds all within a ten mile radius of the town,
> with all different price ranges.
Did you know that there are RV books that list Walmarts and there
locations accross the country for RVers to stay at? I guess all of us
are wrong and you are right?
> >When I'm traveling, if I had to stay in an RV park every stinking
> night
> >I would only be able to use the darn thing about half as much. I
> always
> >try and stay in an RV park one night and boondock one or two nights.
> >Sure saves money so we can spend it on other fun things while seeing
> >this wonderful country of ours.
> But you still don't get it. The folks of the town in New England do
> NOT WANT YOU BOONDOCKING IN THEIR FRIGGIN TOWN! Go boondock in the
> woods somewhere, not in the parking lots in town.
I'm beginning to think I would not care for the people in New England
and will place it in a catagory with LA and avoid it at all costs.
> >I may have spent the night in front of your house before. This is a
> >common practice of ours. We pull into a residential area about 11 or
> 12
> >p.m. and go to bed. The next morning I'm gone before you get the
> sleep
> >out of your eyes. Now I bet that pisses you off. Personally I don't
> >see a thing wrong with it.
> Have you stayed on Napolean St. in New Orleans yet? I hear the
> *projects* are really smokin' in the heat of the summer. Better yet,
> why not just drive down St. Peters off Bourbon St. and park. Why not
> just park outside the Empire State Building? Or the World Trade
> Center? Or outside my grandmothers apartment on Manhattan at Broadway
> and 110 st? Why choose a residential area where the glass is bevelled?
> I'll tell you why, you are an elitist in your own sneaky little way.
You know it really doesn't matter what you think or how you feel about
how or where other RVers go or stay. I guess you will have to live with
the idea that we all are not clones of you and there are more ways to
see this country than your way. I believe some RVers would rather those
of us that are middle income not RV. Some would think that middle
income people make them look bad and they are spending all there time
trying to impress everyone else. Just the thought of someone staying in
a Walmart parking lot makes there skin crawl, sort of tarnishes the
image of the rich. Can't have that now can we?
> >To me what you are saying is similar to, let's say they have whole
> >chickens on sale down the street for 59 cents a pound and around the
> >corner they are selling the same chicken for $1.29 a pound, you would
> >want me to go pay $1.29 a pound. What the hell do you care what I do
> or
> >where I do it?
>
> We, I, don't care. And no, this is not a good analogy. You are
> comparing paying for something, with paying nothing. This is not your
> arguement above. You didn't say you sought to pay, but in a less
> expensive space. You wanted to live free in a parking lot of an
> exclusive town where people pay extremely high taxes. Another analogy
> which does not hold water. How old are you?
I'm not living free! What is so darn terrible about someone parking in
a parking lot or anywhere else for that matter. If we want hookups than
we go where we can get them, if not why pay for the darn things that you
don't need. Sure makes sense to me. Also if we park somewhere and it
offends someone all they need is to give us a reason and ask us if we
would move on. I don't think very many people would walk over to a
Walmart parking lot and ask people to move on, do you?
> >Life is full of choices and I will stay the night where ever the hell
> I
> >want to and don't appreciate no one telling me I can't. I would
> imagine
> >if you thought about it you wouldn't either.
> >
> >Freedom is really becoming a joke around here.
> >
> >Dave T.
>
> As long as it's YOUR freedom...I see. What about the freedom of the
> townsfolk who do NOT want your presence?
I would want to know the reason someone would not want me parking over
night and what harm it does to thier rights. Am I blocking thier view
of something from midnight until 5 or 6 a.m.? or what?
I suppose it all boils down
> to the ME ME I I ME ME I I scenario this country is slowly taking on.
> When was the last time you volunteered to help a church, or temple in
> exchange for staying in THEIR parking lot overnight? I didn't think
> so.
My wife has done some of the church stuff not me. We believe that if
everyone takes care of family and relatives so none of them end up
homeless or on the streets this type of assistance is best. If all did
the same everyone would be in better shape.
If you didn't spend all your time looking down your nose at those who
don't have it as well as you do, you would probably be a happier person.
Look buddy, we have the money to RV. No, I do not have to work.
> Yes, I luxuriate at home with my crafts and hobbies. Yes siree I do.
> But I also give back by being a volunteer in my community. I will
> continue to do this when we RV as a lifestyle. The more you give, the
> more you receive. Take a good look at your true self and figure out
> why you continue to run up against strife and ruffle. There is a grand
> scheme in a Universal way. This arguement of "I will stay wherever I
> want, whenever I want" is the reason why you continually (apparantly)
> run into such adversity. The pay back is a bitch, so they say. You are
> one good example of how this works. Best to you. Stay off my block
> bud, or my Ozzy dog will escort your butt, with a chunk out of it, off
> the block. Bye, the end.
>
> victoria
I take a look at myself every morning while shaving and feel just fine
about me. You had better be careful before you get a nose bleed.
Dave T.
Bob Clerc
Conrad A. Thomaier wrote:
>
> I wonder how small mom-and-pop department stores would feel if a
> multi-billion campground corporation were to give away the products the
> department stores sell at the campground corporation's nearby
> campgrounds?
>
> (This of course wouldn't happen, but I hope you see my point.)
>
> I suspect that most campground owners are not getting rich, and don't
> appreciate the multi-billion dollar, very profitable, Walmart
> corporation giving away what they are trying to sell.
Conrad,
At what locations do campground owners sell what Wal-Mart is giving
away? Wal-Mart does not give away RV camping sites; it offers overnight
parking. Commercial campgrounds do not sell overnight parking--although
what they sometimes offer is not much more than that, they just do not
price 'em that way.
I have never seen RVs "camped" at a Wal-Mart, although it undoubtedly
happens. I hope that folks who overnight at Wal-Marts simply pull up to
some reasonable location on the parking lot, check with store personnel
if it OK and if the location is appropriate, maybe buy a few needed
things, hop back in the RV, have a quick snack (always gotta have a
quick snack) and go to bed. The sun rises and off they go, on to some
destination campground, or at least an enroute campground where they are
going to stretch out, use the pool, visit the locale and so on.
I would be willing to pay an owner a reasonable fee to do the same
thing. I have paid $20.00+ on many occassions to do essentially the
same thing and did not like it one bit.
To use an analogy: When we are going to some destination using hotels,
we will look for a full amenity place. When we went to Orlando for a
week and did not have time to RV there, we flew and stayed at Marriott
World Center. I would not dream of staying at such a place just to get
a quick night's sleep while enroute to visit one of my in-laws in prison
a couple states over; we would use much more budget oriented lodging.
The rack rate at Marriott World Center is something like $250 and our
budget place, maybe $70--and no, no one pays the rack rate at either
place.
For RVers, there is not similar opportunity. The price difference
between the destination campground (unless talking about the super
luxurious) and the run-of-the-mill place encountered enroute is not much
(and I am not talking about parking behind Joe's Service Station on the
other extreme).
Is it possible to commercially provide overnight parking for enroute
RVers for a few dollars per night in a zero amenity setting like a
Wal-Mart parking lot? I do not know.
I think what Wal-Mart offers in exhange for good will and a little
additional business if a reasonable situation.
For those who are opposed to the Wal-Mart policy, I am sure their wishes
will be met in the not too distant future. There are enough dunderheads
among us--dump their holding tanks, leave trash, set up picnic tables
and so on that individual store managers will all eventually have to
give up on the idea of overnight RV parking.
Bob Clerc kerp...@flash.net in the mountains of central NM
Bob Clerc
Marion wrote:
>
> From a trucker's view point, how do you feel about RV's in the rest area?
> Do truckers feel RVers are invading their space?
Been try to figure out if your last sentence should be construed to
read, "what they regard as their space" or "what is their space".
My answer to "what is" is that it isn't.
My answer to "what they regard" is, who cares.
I am not a trucker and am not particularly concerned what their point of
view is, although it obviously your right to be interested if you
choose. Rest areas are there for all travellers. The little spaces are
for cars; the large spaces are for all the things that don't fit in
little spaces. If overnighting is permitted, it is permitted for all
who follow the rules.
I've seen some folks sleeping in rest areas, whether in cars or what
serves as an RV, that very likely do not have the $$ for a motel or
campground. But at what point is someone determined to have the
financial wherewithal to be able to afford a motel or campground. Is
there a sensor buried in the rest area entrance that measures fitness
for overnighting or that this particular vehicle should move on to a
motel or campground?
Use of a rest area for overnighting is not a big issue in my own
personal practice, purely for practical reasons. If my use of a slot in
the rest area is likely to preclude use by a trucker, that might be
unfortunate, but would not be my reason for not staying there. My
reason would be that truck movement in and out of the other slots during
the course of the night is likely to be so heavy as to make a good
night's sleep impossible.
We make certain trips three or four times a year in which the distance
travelled is just a little too much to make comfortably in one day. So
we leave right after work and go four or five hours. Do I think that at
this point I should spend $25.00 to get a few hours sleep in my house on
wheels. No. This is on non-Interstate roads not unsed much by
truckers, so no real problem with the rest areas. If this were on a
trucker route, would I do the same? Dunno. It would depend totally on
my ability to get a peaceful night's sleep, not on any hierarchy of
priorty of use.
I keep reading about what seems to be the superior right of truckers to
the roads (and rest areas). In print, it seems most often to come from
the wives of truckers; on the road it comes most often in the form of
comments on the CB or in actual behavior. My concern is that if the
superior right is adverted to often enough, it will somehow become a
reality. The trucking industry is a very powerful economic force and is
very willing to exercise it's force in every way that it finds to its
advantage.
We all have the obligation to share and use the roads (and rests areas)
safely and courteously. Many parts of the world's roadway are ruled by
the law of who has the most testosterone or the biggest vehicle. I
would hate to see us move any further in that direction.
> Ned Bulken <e...@borg.com> wrote in article <341857D1...@borg.com>...
> > <clip>
>
> > And, furthermore, I vote in the 'why expect them to let you stay' camp.
> > If you're going to rv, don't presume that you can bivouac anywhere you
> > like. If you're going to RV, limited budget or no, pay your own way.
> >
I, you and everyone else pays--to some extent--our own way to use rest
areas and roads by a variety of taxes on a equal basis, and no one has
the right to judge whether you or I or the guy next door is better able
to pay for commercial lodging.
Vince Wirth
"gcarter"@mail.usinternet.com (Gary Carter) wrote:
> In fact,
>one of the leading agendas of the national campground organization
>(don't remember their officail name) is trying to pass local ordances
>against RVs in rest stops, truck stops, etc.
Gary,
Prove the above statement. I bet you can't.
Vince Wirth
http://home.earthlink.net/~vincewirth
Phil Bullock
Welcome to the real world of RV people Victoria. Lots of different
outlooks. I believe you will find most of us to be pretty reasonable
when it comes to respecting the rights of others. I hope you don't get
discouraged when you observe the actions of a small minority.
I suggest you rent an RV a few times before investing in a rig of your
own. Stay a few nights in a close by RV park and I think you will meet
many nice folks with many different ideas of what this lifestyle is all
about.
Phil
Alan Sanderson
M & V wrote:
>
> In <34177E...@pipeline.com> fran...@pipeline.com writes:
>
> -snip-
>
> If
> >your friend allows you to park on his overtaxed private property for a
> >limited period of time the local pols should stay out of it.
>
<stuff snipped>
> What rights are being infringed upon? The right to block someones view
> of the water they pay dearly to see? Sheesh. If your friend had
> enough property to house your RV ON the property, nobody could say a
> thing. No, you are not usually allowed to park a rig in the street in
> front of someones house. I know of no ordinance which disallows you
> from parking within the confines of someone's property, and that
> usually ends at the line where the sidewalk or parkway begins.
Many towns and cities HAVE passed ordinances restricting parking RV's
within the confines of someone's private property. That is the main
thrust of the Good Sam effort against restrictive ordinances.
Lynne
. The manager has always been very courteous and in fact many have said
that it was not necessary to ask, it was Walmart
> policy.
>
We find that it IS necessary to ask because although it might be a
Walmart policy (and that is questionable), many Walmarts are located in
places where there is a city ordinance against it, such as Pigeon Forge,
TN.
M & V
In <341A0EB1...@earthlink.net> Phil Bullock
<pbul...@earthlink.net> writes:
>
>Welcome to the real world of RV people Victoria. Lots of different
>outlooks. I believe you will find most of us to be pretty reasonable
>when it comes to respecting the rights of others. I hope you don't
get
>discouraged when you observe the actions of a small minority.
Absolutely not. I have become quite fond of most the people on this
newsgroup, and can sincerely say I have not been discouraged in the
least. I am aware of this being the minority of people who insist on
their "cause" to be indiscriminate.
>
>I suggest you rent an RV a few times before investing in a rig of your
>own. Stay a few nights in a close by RV park and I think you will
meet
>many nice folks with many different ideas of what this lifestyle is
all
>about.
>
>Phil
This is exactly what we plan to do when the weather gives a bit. It is
still quite hot in Texas...
Victoria-thanks for the kind words...
Bob, Margaret Wright
Have been monitoring this group for a long time now. Great group!
Well gang, we will be official full-timers on Mon 9/15. Have the
house and kennel sold - closing is at 1PM Mon. MH is in the drive
all packed up. What a job that was!! Amazing how much junk you
have after so many years! The house is a wreck - the new owners
have been here for a week and there boxes are all over the place.
We were going to get a Fleetwood Discovery but decided to spend half
as much and get on the road much smaller to get our feet wet. Bought
a '96 Fleetwood Bounder, 30'. If things work out we can upgrade
later. I know, I know - watch out for the weights on the Bounder -
specially on the front end.
Our first destination is Lewisburg WV for the Escapade (9/21 - 9/26).
Any other SKP's out there going to be there. We are staying at
Indian Ridge Resort (CCC) in Pipestem WV Fri and Sat nite. Could not
get in as CCC (no CCC spaces available) but the rate is only $10 nite.
If any one else is there look us up. Look for 30' Bounder towing a
Saturn wagon. We also have a German Shepherd and Schipperkee.
Wish us luck!
Bob Wright
--
Margaret & Bob Wright tana...@earthlink.net
(skp#33797)
TANAQUIL KENNELS
http://home.earthlink.net/~tanaquil
Gary - KJ6Q
EXACTLY true! Many Wal-Marts and Sam's clubs out in the west are only a
small part of a much larger mall or factory outlet cluster. In these
scenarios, the controls over parking, as well as many other policies, is
set by both the association of merchants and local ordinances - NOT by
individual business owners. Thus, Wal-Mart is NOT free to
indiscriminently permit free RV parking just because it is their company
policy elsewhere. ALSO, there is usually a security patrol agency hired
by the association, part of whose job it is to patrol the parking areas
to prevent crime, destruction and illegal parking.
Gary - KJ6Q
"Bob, Margaret Wright" <tana...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Have been monitoring this group for a long time now. Great group!
>
>Well gang, we will be official full-timers on Mon 9/15. Have the
>house and kennel sold - closing is at 1PM Mon. MH is in the drive
>all packed up. What a job that was!! Amazing how much junk you
>have after so many years! The house is a wreck - the new owners
>have been here for a week and there boxes are all over the place.
>
<SNIP>
YEAH, sure, go ahead and rub it in....! Have a GREAT trip, and "happy
trails"!
>Bob Wright
>--
>Margaret & Bob Wright
--
M & V
In <3419D4...@hp.com> Alan Sanderson <Alan_Sa...@hp.com>
writes:
>Many towns and cities HAVE passed ordinances restricting parking RV's
>within the confines of someone's private property. That is the main
>thrust of the Good Sam effort against restrictive ordinances.
Name one. If that is what Good Sam's is trying to do, I am on their
side. ONLY, and I mean ONLY IF the person with the property is not
housing several RV's and charging, illegally, money for people to camp
on the property. A lot of property has clearly marked deed
restrictions when you purchase the land. These restrictions are very
hard to eliminate, no matter how large the lobbying faction is.
Victoria